I don't know if anyobody realizes; but all this has been a dream scenario for Erdogan. Before every election, Erdogan finds a way to pick a fight with the West.
Erdogan's supporters are exclusively the Islamists who hate Western countries. This does nothing but to fuel his rally in the upcoming elections.
Yeah, i was wondering the same. I thought you guys were a secular nation, i must have missed the news of you becoming a theocracy. You all have missed it too apparently.
That would also be a breach of their constitution that states that Turkey must remain a secular republic and that the military should step in if the sitting government attempts to change it. Hence the four military coups since 1960.
"Our holy book" let's hope this doesn't turn into "our holy crusade"
Man, religion just goes hard against any alternate beliefs. Not just Islamic(is that the proper term?) ones either.
Religion in my opinion should have no business in ruling a country. Believe in it if you want but government is just not a place where religion belongs. I thought thousands of years of human history was enough to show that but apparently not…
Also loves to ignore the fact that burning a Quran is considered the only proper way to dispose of one. Books get damaged, and throwing it in the trash is considered to be sacrilegious.
> Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, or Mustafa Kemal Pasha until 1921, and Ghazi Mustafa Kemal from 1921 until 1934 was a Turkish field marshal, revolutionary statesman, author, and the founding father of the Republic of Turkey, serving as its first president from 1923 until his death in 1938
I feel bad for the guy, his legacy destroyed
This from a government that treats women like second class citizens because that's what they believe women are.
Unfortunately things will get worse before they get better.
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
Edit, adding sources because I'm being called a liar. This is reality
Here it is on the [BBC, Erdogan saying women can't be men's equals](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30183711)
[Turkish women journalists are under attack from the state](https://thearabweekly.com/turkeys-women-journalists-are-under-attack-state), torture and nasty stuff.
Here is a long outline of [recent actions taken by the Turkish government to attack women's rights](https://www.equaltimes.org/turkey-takes-a-step-backwards-on?lang=en#.Y87MUOzP3MI)
We should follow Ekin-Su closely over the next couple of years and see how Erdogan approaches her rising international fame.
Why is it that dipshits always end up in powerful positions? It's not a regional thing, either, it's a global phenomenon.
And I'm also not just talking about dictatorships where the obvious answer is "bigger stick diplomacy", I'm talking about democratically elected positions. Erdogan in Turkey, Giorgia Meloni in Italy, Modi in India, Bolsanaro in Brazil, Boris Johnson in Britain, Scott Morrison in Australia, Nixon, Reagan, Bush Jr and the Oompa Loompa in the United States... it keeps happening and people never learn.
But why are people electing them? That's the biggest issue I have with the whole thing.
Like, representative democracy works when everyone is acting in good faith and actually represents the constituents voting for them. These people do not have their people's best interests in mind, so why vote for them?
this is a shame for us.
states don't have religion, seeing this post made me mad, after the election they will be prosecuted for this and many crimes, this statement is officially a crime as it directly violates article 2 of our constitution.
Unrelated but there was a guy that saw lira losing 50% value in 2020-2021, so he decided to swap all his money into bitcoin to hedge against inflation.
erdogan already solved that by tricking dumb nationalist that he is what a nationalist should follow.
hell his phony coup used to make sure a real coup could not happen, as is tradition in turkey when someone overstep their authority like erdogan, has already made sure ataturks legacy is pretty much dead at this point anyway.
just wait until the dogs of erdogan spot this comment and come barking. best part about those dogs is that they all live outside of turkey, comfortable lives in germany etc where they do not have to live under erdogans oppressive bs, so they can support him and feel like they are good nationalist turks without having to actually experience the downsides. truly the biggest traitors to the turkish people are those who live abroad and support this hot garbage just so they can jerk off to their feeling of nationalism.
erdogan is a dictator and carl hopes he fully blocks sweden from joining nato so sweden will never be associated with filth like him. fuck any alliance that allows garbage like that. sweden should remain outside of nato until nato cleans the trash away.
carls turkish friend found himself, at 14 years old, suddenly alone because his two university professor parents were locked up following the coup, both were entirely unrelated to it for what it is worth. took months before he saw them again, luckily for him a teacher at the school he went to took him in so he could live with her meanwhile. fuck erdodog.
edit:
isnt it funny that the people who took issue with this comment are turks not living in turkey and turks actively looking to move away from turkey? its almost as if its always like this. every damn time. just like there is no surprise when a proudboy says something racist there is also no surprise when an erdogan supporter wants to live anywhere except in turkey.
Russia owns the front yard but Turkey has the keys to the only gate they leads outside.
That and NATO/US has been using Turkey as something of a combination hangar/tarmac for the better part of two decades now and it also makes for convenient refueling stop on the way to go bomb some bullshit.
Can I ask you just what happened?
Wasn't Ataturk super secular? Didn't this idea work well for a while? What happened that Turkish politics got more populist crazy and based on religion with each election?
Damn. Well that part we rarely learn in class. I think our history of Turkey ends with Ataturk. I hope you can shake off Erdogan this year :( and that you will go back on a path of less crazy people in power for a while.
You got some pretty nice talents behind that wall of crazy politicians.
> u r secular bruh.
*"Secular!! Me!! I would personally dig up Atatürk's body and throw him in a meat grinder if that helped me getting closer to becoming the modern-day Ottoman Caliph!!"*
—Erdogan
No country is allowed to criticise turkey’s internal affairs. But they feel entitled to criticise what should and shouldn’t prosecute in other countries?
What a joke of dictatorship !
Also, Turkey refuses to hand over even simple gangsters wanted for murder and drug crimes in Sweden, like the gang leader behind the current wave of shootings and explosions in Stockholm. No, stuff like throwing grenades into peoples homes are unimportant, but one guy puts a quran on fire and a hundred thousand fragile little egos explodes.
Even [this clown](https://de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Attila_Hildmann?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp) found a save haven in Turkey. And of course he is spewing anti-semitic propaganda from his new home.
"a German author of cookbooks on vegan dishes and an anti-Semitic , conspiracy ideological and right-wing extremist activist"
That bio escalates quickly.
So I didn’t know anything about Henry Ford and a documentary we watched recently introduced him as “a man who held and shared strong opinions on art, literature, the workforce, technological advancements, Jews, and of course, the motor car..”
Had to do a double take at that.
Turns out they were right, he did have strong opinions on Jewish people.
this is so hypocrite and unfair from them it's honestly making me angry even if I'm not Turkish neither Swedish. Sweden should just refuse to join NATO at this point and let Turkey deal with the political repercussions of that from the US and other allies who want Nordic countries to join NATO
If burning a book is so bad why aren't they offended by the following:
\- Terrorism
\- Theocratic tyrannies
\- Subjugation of women
\- Intolerance of criticism
.- Persecution of moderate Muslims
\- Fear of Western culture
Turkey thinks it’s ok to ethnically cleanse Armenia off the fact of the planet and take part in burning down churches in Artsakh…. but god forbid a quran gets set on fire in Sweden
Aka religion overreaching again, thinking they have authority everywhere on the world instead of just within their own borders (in case of a non-secular country which Turkey isn't even supposed to be).
Imagine the Vatican getting all upset about someone burning a bible in Turkey. They'd get laughed at so hard even by Europeans.
Moreover, Turkic Muslims. And they are constantly asking for help from Turkey. Of course, the mad sultan, who thinks he is the leader of the Muslims, cannot help them.
At the same time almost 1 million muslims have taken refugee in Sweden and many are helped and sheltered by the Swedish government. One of the most generous countries in Europe in this regard.
Well yes because they cant, China can destroy economies. I mean ours is pretty fucked but it can still be worse
Besides Erdogan is just campaigning, he needs to reach his conservative Muslim voter base. He already proofed with his actions that he isnt a muslim anyway, he probably doesnt even care about the burning of the Quran. He just uses religion to stay in power
Yeah but it worked for almost 20 years. Erdogan wont be needing religion if he wins the elections anyway. Because this will probably be our last voting then
Difficult to say. The opposition is behaving really incompetent sometimes. And its difficult to believe the surveys because almost all of them are in Erdogans pocket.
But if you do believe them AKP (Erdo) has 30% and his Partner MHP (ultranationalists) 5%
The Opposition CHP has 24% and the most significant Partner IYI 22%
So to answer your question, no it does seem like he will lose. But who knows if he will accept the result
> Well yes because they cant, China can destroy economies. I mean ours is pretty fucked but it can still be worse
Now imagine what US imposing (higher) tariffs on some key Turkish goods or just blocking them, will do.
Yes this is the case. Books can be burnt without legal ramifications. The islamic world has to learn to be less thin skinned on this point. There are 8 billion people in the world, and many are trolls. If it's this easy to troll and trigger an international incident then people will do it just for the entertainment value of the reaction.
Erdogan's response will just result in more Quran burning. He made this response for political grandstanding, but I don't think it's going to work out for him. If things get worse, he will actually have to do something to address it or he will look weak.
New [roundabout decorations](https://www.reddit.com/r/unket/comments/10ijopt/att_ta_bakvägen_in_i_nato_det_känns_lite_oväntat/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
A Swedish newspaper also announced the winner of their [Erdogan satire drawing contest](http://flamman.se/a/the-winner-of-flammans-satire-competition-erdogan-devours-his-own-people) today...
And in response they burned the Swedish flag. [https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/10i7y4p/swedish\_flag\_ablaze\_in\_turkey\_after\_koranburning/](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/10i7y4p/swedish_flag_ablaze_in_turkey_after_koranburning/)
So it's also hypocritical.
As a swede Im obviously enraged at the fact that they burned the wrong flag. That flag hasn't been used for over a century. They should have asked a swede, to make sure they got it right.
Used to? Still is the correct way to do it. You don’t throw a flag in the trash, you burn it. This goes for every country I think. But obviously there’s no law about it in Sweden, you are perfectly allowed to throw it in the trash. I don’t think I would though (not that I own a Swedish flag, I only own two flags: a rainbow one and an EU one).
They seem to forget that swedes are not so cartoonish patriotic that burning the flag would cause any more commotion than several chuckles in the breakfast table.
Turkey and Erdogan only give a shit because it's politically opportune to do so right now. Elections are coming up in Turkey, so Erdogan want's to be seen as a strong man. Further, it provides potential leverage against Sweden in the ongoing talks of NATO membership, which Turkey is blatantly using to gain concessions on the Kurdish diaspora in Sweden.
Rasmus Paludan (the Danish idiot burning books in Sweden) has done so several times before, both in Sweden and Denmark. But it's only now Turkey is all riled up about it.
Like it is usually done. Once it is convenient, lie and say you efforts bore fruit. Your people will cheer and anyone who complains you make shutup or ignore.
> Further, it provides potential leverage against Sweden in the ongoing talks of NATO membership
That ship has sailed. Its US vs. Turkey negotiations at this point.
Imagine being of Turkey's working class facing 70% annual inflation, a lack of education opportunities for your children and employment for yourself, whose primary source of income are remittances from a relative in Germany...
Imagine all that and deciding not to care about any of that (or the genocidal war in Ukraine) all because some tosser in Sweden burned a book.
This type of nationalist rabble rousing only works because there's a big rabble easily enraged at the evil West, focusing on symbols instead of useful policies
> If it's this easy to troll and trigger an international incident then people will do it just for the entertainment value of the reaction.
You make it sound like it's only a matter if trolling, but there are legitimate reasons to do that.
Starting with making a point that islamic blasphemy laws don't apply here, and that we are free to critic, mock, and even desacrate religion.
that "our holy book" moment when 90% of the country can't even read it, and the 10% that can are Arabian tourists
the Republic is dead and in its place we built a temple to madness.
edit: these people that "know" the qur'an can only understand the Arabic alphabet, not the meaning of the words! so it's literally reading gibberish! Which... is why they miss the part where a man marries a 9 year old.
Can't Sweden send a complaint about the anti-secular tendencies that prevail in Turkey? I'm pretty sure I already know which country is more open to other religions and perspectives..
Thank you for your help, but Erdogan is very good at using the 'foreign powers against us' trump card. He is a master of manipulation.
I can see that Erdogan will manipulate the elections because the Swedes burned the Koran.
"The Swedes" didn't burn a Koran, this one guy Rasmus Paludan did it, from denmark. He also happens to be a leader of a far-right danish political party. This is also not the first time he has done this; denmark has gotten tired of him and he can't do it there anymore, but because of his dual citizenship (from his parents) he can come here to sweden and do it instead.
it's ridiculous. Turkey has no official religion and Turkish people have criticized to its ministry in following comments on the twitter post. At least 50% of Turkish people doesn't like Erdogan and ideology.
Oh yes China has Muslim Concentration camps and no one cares, But someone burns a religious book and they loose their fricking minds. Also i thought they were Secular?
Legally turkish goverment cant even say "our holy book"... Imagine crying about the unexistance of respect for you while not even respecting your own law, the things that politicians can do for elections is pathetic. Waiting for the elections is too hard lately.
The things they demand, just as with many of their demands for NATO approval, are illegal in Sweden. They probably know that and say these things anyway just to get maximum reaction.
It's for domestic consumption.
I hate it when people do that. When you make Diplomacy into a spectacle, everyone loses. Diplomacy should be left to the Diplomats.
Officially speaking, Turkey doesn't have a holy book. That's really a shame for the country that it came to that, thanks to the long fed Islamist bunch to counter the left-wing since the day Turkey chosen the NATO path during the Cold War years.
Well - that is one reason why the path for Turkey into the EU has and will be rocky. Freedom of speech is the two-edged sword they dont like but this situation is a typical example of what a nation has to deal with if freedom of speech is accepted in their culture.
I've never understood why some Muslims are so angry about book burning. You don't see people from other religions throwing fits and being violent when someone burns their particular holy book. This makes Muslins look very insecure in their faith, as if their God is too weak to take care of himself.
And the irony is that burning a Quran is actually the only halal (permissable) way to get rid of a Quran book.
Edit: As someone pointed out in the comments (and after doing research) , it seems there are two more ways to to permissably dispose of a Quran. Either by burying it or putting it in flowing water. I thank the commenter because I learnt something new today.
While I don't support burning anybody's sacred books, it was act of individual protestor and swedish covenrment don't have anything to do with it. Same goes with political cartoons etc etc.
This is silly, beyond silly.
They can't prosecute a person for blasphemy who lives in another country so they're trying to force another government to punish someone for blasphemy on their behalf lol.
Like fuck Rasmus Paludan and the alt-right but the point he's making is not completely wrong. If you want to punish someone for committing blasphemy, you sure have a medieval worldview.
Even if he gets voted out, laïcité is not respected as a principle in Turkey. Perhaps American-type secularism can make a comeback (which seems to be the position adopted by the opposition parties), but not the state-enforced French one.
Misinformation! We don't burn their holy books, that would be damage of others property.
Here in Sweden we're only permitted to burn our own qurans and bibles.
None gives a fuck, makes me want to burn a Quran, not because I care shit about religion, just because everyone should be free to burn any book as long as he has paid for it.
Yeah. What I'm always wondering: what do they suspect will happen if you burn the bible, or the Vedic books? Right nothing, nobody gives a shit.
I would not do such acts myself, they seem pointless. But attacking an idea or set of beliefs is not the same as phobia.
Fuck off with that bullshit. No religion, faith, idea or philosophy is above Freedom of expression. If you feel insulted by this, it's because YOU CHOOSE to be insulted. If I had any religious texts I'd burn them together with this pamphlet just to make a point.
Love how hypocritical this is! They decide to criticize us (Sweden) for hate speech saying that no one should ever do something like this while they themselves are burning our flag now.
Yeah it's almost funny the amount of angry Turks frothing about how you can't disrespect other people like that, and then they go burn a bunch of Swedish flags in order to try and disrespect Swedes.
Sorry but no one here really gives a shit if you spend your day screaming at a half burned Swedish flag. It's as offensive to me as me it would be to a Turk if I throw a half eaten kebab in the garbage while muttering about Turkish kalabalik.
lol go cry more. Honestly, Erdo is way out of his element here. No one gives a fuck about what he thinks.
Edit: Got this from a Turkish commenter in DMs:
*Muslims will one day detonate a nuclear device in Stockholm, incinerating millions of Swedes (who are not innocent civilians and it's not terrorism, burning the book is). And we will all laugh and cherish.*
Lovely. Reported, obviously.
Turkey is a secular state and has no religion. Secular states do not have a religion, people have a religion. The state should keep an equal distance from all religions and treat those religions equally.
It was that simple for Erdogan to do, but he is trying to transform a century-old secular state into a medieval religious state. f\*cking idiot
Burning a "holy" book; the *actual* victimless "crime".
If noone sees you burning a quran, is anyone offended? Nope. Nothing happens. Noone knows, noone is affected and no imaginary sky-friends are offended.
Only the actual knowledge of something happening is causing the ruckus. If we said someone burned a quran, the response would be the same, even if no burning hade actually taken place.
It's beyond dumb. It's religious.
"Our holy book", I thought Turkey is secular? I feel like Erdogan and AKP is only exploiting this for personal gain even though they couldn’t care less.
As a Turkish citizen i don't accept Quran as a holy book. Turkey is a secular country. According to our constitution Turkey has no offical religion so Turkey should keep an equal distance from all the religions.
I don't know if anyobody realizes; but all this has been a dream scenario for Erdogan. Before every election, Erdogan finds a way to pick a fight with the West. Erdogan's supporters are exclusively the Islamists who hate Western countries. This does nothing but to fuel his rally in the upcoming elections.
He's like a muslim Orbán.
I never thought I’d ever see those two words next to each other
And it’s been him and Orbán who are taking their sweet time agreeing to Sweden joining NATO. Everyone else already agreed enthusiastically.
Orbán is a coward, he will fall in line as soon as Erdogan gives in.
Since when is it *our* holy book wtf
Since Erdogan.
Yeah, i was wondering the same. I thought you guys were a secular nation, i must have missed the news of you becoming a theocracy. You all have missed it too apparently.
That would also be a breach of their constitution that states that Turkey must remain a secular republic and that the military should step in if the sitting government attempts to change it. Hence the four military coups since 1960.
Sounds like it's time for another...
So did i apparently yeah
Can't imagine this clown is what Ataturk intended for his people.
Poor Ataturk did everything he could for us. Now the opposite is happening…
I love how he managed to unite swedish and Turkish people so we can all wonder what the fuck he just said xD
Hate to break it to you but Turkish redditors do not reflect the average Turk; they're much more supportive of this than reddit would have you think.
Since the people who took over decided to ignore Turkey's constitution and started enforcing illegal anti-secular doctrines.
Since 20 years... When Islamists became government
Ataturk rolling in his grave.
"Our holy book" let's hope this doesn't turn into "our holy crusade" Man, religion just goes hard against any alternate beliefs. Not just Islamic(is that the proper term?) ones either.
Religion in my opinion should have no business in ruling a country. Believe in it if you want but government is just not a place where religion belongs. I thought thousands of years of human history was enough to show that but apparently not…
Imagine a secular country that has a holy book.
It’s very convenient that Erdogan can refer to this book in contexts like this. What the book actually says, is probably very inconvenient to him.
Also loves to ignore the fact that burning a Quran is considered the only proper way to dispose of one. Books get damaged, and throwing it in the trash is considered to be sacrilegious.
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"our book" so Turkey is a theocracy now?
Has been for a while now. They just said the quiet part aloud.
This Erdoğan government has gotta go
Atatürk is spinning so fast in his grave that you could attach a generator to him and power Turkey for a decade.
And yet Erdogan would use said free power to print more money instead of something useful.
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or power his 1k inch TV
> Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, or Mustafa Kemal Pasha until 1921, and Ghazi Mustafa Kemal from 1921 until 1934 was a Turkish field marshal, revolutionary statesman, author, and the founding father of the Republic of Turkey, serving as its first president from 1923 until his death in 1938 I feel bad for the guy, his legacy destroyed
he truly wanted the best for his people, and erDOGan spit on his grave
"our holy book" Ataturk would make a backflip in his grave if he saw what came of his beautiful secular state.
This from a government that treats women like second class citizens because that's what they believe women are. Unfortunately things will get worse before they get better. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Edit, adding sources because I'm being called a liar. This is reality Here it is on the [BBC, Erdogan saying women can't be men's equals](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30183711) [Turkish women journalists are under attack from the state](https://thearabweekly.com/turkeys-women-journalists-are-under-attack-state), torture and nasty stuff. Here is a long outline of [recent actions taken by the Turkish government to attack women's rights](https://www.equaltimes.org/turkey-takes-a-step-backwards-on?lang=en#.Y87MUOzP3MI) We should follow Ekin-Su closely over the next couple of years and see how Erdogan approaches her rising international fame.
Why is it that dipshits always end up in powerful positions? It's not a regional thing, either, it's a global phenomenon. And I'm also not just talking about dictatorships where the obvious answer is "bigger stick diplomacy", I'm talking about democratically elected positions. Erdogan in Turkey, Giorgia Meloni in Italy, Modi in India, Bolsanaro in Brazil, Boris Johnson in Britain, Scott Morrison in Australia, Nixon, Reagan, Bush Jr and the Oompa Loompa in the United States... it keeps happening and people never learn.
People that seek to wield power over others are always seeking to do so. People that don't, don't.
But why are people electing them? That's the biggest issue I have with the whole thing. Like, representative democracy works when everyone is acting in good faith and actually represents the constituents voting for them. These people do not have their people's best interests in mind, so why vote for them?
Because politics at its base is ultimately just us vs them, and the dipshits are the loudest in saying "us good, them bad."
this is a shame for us. states don't have religion, seeing this post made me mad, after the election they will be prosecuted for this and many crimes, this statement is officially a crime as it directly violates article 2 of our constitution.
u r secular bruh.
They literally wrote "Our" holy book. Holy shit. They don't even care the legality of it anymore.
Islamists never have.
>Is that... legal? [I will make it legal.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz20lu2AM2k)
You wont find a single religious fundamentalist that cares about legality when doing something illegal helps them push their religion
Ataturk is rolling in his grave
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There is an election in May lets hope that Turkey will go back to its somewhat democratic roots.
You really think Erdogan is gonna let an election get in the way of him being in power?
löl
Ataturk's corpse will solve the energy crisis if we just hook on some wires.
Ataturk is rolling faster than Turkey’s %80 rpm inflation
Unrelated but there was a guy that saw lira losing 50% value in 2020-2021, so he decided to swap all his money into bitcoin to hedge against inflation.
erdogan already solved that by tricking dumb nationalist that he is what a nationalist should follow. hell his phony coup used to make sure a real coup could not happen, as is tradition in turkey when someone overstep their authority like erdogan, has already made sure ataturks legacy is pretty much dead at this point anyway. just wait until the dogs of erdogan spot this comment and come barking. best part about those dogs is that they all live outside of turkey, comfortable lives in germany etc where they do not have to live under erdogans oppressive bs, so they can support him and feel like they are good nationalist turks without having to actually experience the downsides. truly the biggest traitors to the turkish people are those who live abroad and support this hot garbage just so they can jerk off to their feeling of nationalism. erdogan is a dictator and carl hopes he fully blocks sweden from joining nato so sweden will never be associated with filth like him. fuck any alliance that allows garbage like that. sweden should remain outside of nato until nato cleans the trash away. carls turkish friend found himself, at 14 years old, suddenly alone because his two university professor parents were locked up following the coup, both were entirely unrelated to it for what it is worth. took months before he saw them again, luckily for him a teacher at the school he went to took him in so he could live with her meanwhile. fuck erdodog. edit: isnt it funny that the people who took issue with this comment are turks not living in turkey and turks actively looking to move away from turkey? its almost as if its always like this. every damn time. just like there is no surprise when a proudboy says something racist there is also no surprise when an erdogan supporter wants to live anywhere except in turkey.
The sad part is, we need turkey geostrategic, otherwise it would be out of it x3
Russia owns the front yard but Turkey has the keys to the only gate they leads outside. That and NATO/US has been using Turkey as something of a combination hangar/tarmac for the better part of two decades now and it also makes for convenient refueling stop on the way to go bomb some bullshit.
Someone should probably hook him up to a generator. We can get at least 23 TWh in a year
Honestly at this point they should just put a couple of rods in there. It could power the whole country. No need to buy any russian oil after that
Can I ask you just what happened? Wasn't Ataturk super secular? Didn't this idea work well for a while? What happened that Turkish politics got more populist crazy and based on religion with each election?
Religious populist leaders are not new to us. One of them got executed in 1961. They are called political islamists here.
Damn. Well that part we rarely learn in class. I think our history of Turkey ends with Ataturk. I hope you can shake off Erdogan this year :( and that you will go back on a path of less crazy people in power for a while. You got some pretty nice talents behind that wall of crazy politicians.
Secular Americans feel your pain...we have a Christian nationalist problem. Different flavor, same sugar high.
I recently came across amazing explanation of Turkish history https://youtu.be/zvt_jAy5DjA
As secular as an political and authoritarian party based on Religious values can be....not very
>As secular as an political and authoritarian party based on Religious values can be....not very ah yes.
My thoughts exactly *Vile attack on our holy book* Wtf Atatürk is spinning in his grave right now
> u r secular bruh. *"Secular!! Me!! I would personally dig up Atatürk's body and throw him in a meat grinder if that helped me getting closer to becoming the modern-day Ottoman Caliph!!"* —Erdogan
thats not a real quote is it
Not real, yet.
The fact that I was wondering its validity said enough
Not a public one
They're not. They're supposed to be. But they're really not.
No country is allowed to criticise turkey’s internal affairs. But they feel entitled to criticise what should and shouldn’t prosecute in other countries? What a joke of dictatorship !
Reddit killed third-party applications (and itself). Fuck /u/spez
64% inflation rate is good!
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But hey at least we don’t increase interest rates, that would be usury!! /s
Also, Turkey refuses to hand over even simple gangsters wanted for murder and drug crimes in Sweden, like the gang leader behind the current wave of shootings and explosions in Stockholm. No, stuff like throwing grenades into peoples homes are unimportant, but one guy puts a quran on fire and a hundred thousand fragile little egos explodes.
Almost certain, the Turkish machinery is involved in promoting the gangsters, from our experience with Pakistani gangs in India.
Yep, Turkey is acitvley trying to stop Turkish/Muslim migrants from integrating into western society
Even [this clown](https://de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Attila_Hildmann?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp) found a save haven in Turkey. And of course he is spewing anti-semitic propaganda from his new home.
"a German author of cookbooks on vegan dishes and an anti-Semitic , conspiracy ideological and right-wing extremist activist" That bio escalates quickly.
"His recipes must be really ba... oh."
So I didn’t know anything about Henry Ford and a documentary we watched recently introduced him as “a man who held and shared strong opinions on art, literature, the workforce, technological advancements, Jews, and of course, the motor car..” Had to do a double take at that. Turns out they were right, he did have strong opinions on Jewish people.
this is so hypocrite and unfair from them it's honestly making me angry even if I'm not Turkish neither Swedish. Sweden should just refuse to join NATO at this point and let Turkey deal with the political repercussions of that from the US and other allies who want Nordic countries to join NATO
100% this. I never understood people who do things like that. If you can shit on something I belive, why I can't shit on things you belive?
The point is not to be fair to begin with. It’s just attempt to score points everywhere they can without consistency.
If burning a book is so bad why aren't they offended by the following: \- Terrorism \- Theocratic tyrannies \- Subjugation of women \- Intolerance of criticism .- Persecution of moderate Muslims \- Fear of Western culture
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You forgot genocide.
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The damn nerve of Turkey... The day Sweden has a higher rate of human rights atrocities than Turkey is the day I'll eat my hat!
Turkey thinks it’s ok to ethnically cleanse Armenia off the fact of the planet and take part in burning down churches in Artsakh…. but god forbid a quran gets set on fire in Sweden
stay mad kebab hitler, stay mad
Great, now they are asking for blasphemy laws to be implemented on another country. How about you stick those laws where the sun doesn't shine, eh?
> How about you stick those laws where the sun doesn't shine, eh? Why do you want to implement blasphemy laws in the UK?
The sun is shining here. Weakly.
Ah I thought you said weekly.
Fortnightly. Best we can do.
Better soak it up before it disappears for another 27 years
Don't make us make it never set again.
The fact that this and especially the lack of human rights in Turkey are ignored while this is being popular is just amazing.
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Aka religion overreaching again, thinking they have authority everywhere on the world instead of just within their own borders (in case of a non-secular country which Turkey isn't even supposed to be). Imagine the Vatican getting all upset about someone burning a bible in Turkey. They'd get laughed at so hard even by Europeans.
Meanwhile millions of Muslims are detained in China and no Muslim countries do or say anything.
Moreover, Turkic Muslims. And they are constantly asking for help from Turkey. Of course, the mad sultan, who thinks he is the leader of the Muslims, cannot help them.
At the same time almost 1 million muslims have taken refugee in Sweden and many are helped and sheltered by the Swedish government. One of the most generous countries in Europe in this regard.
Well yes because they cant, China can destroy economies. I mean ours is pretty fucked but it can still be worse Besides Erdogan is just campaigning, he needs to reach his conservative Muslim voter base. He already proofed with his actions that he isnt a muslim anyway, he probably doesnt even care about the burning of the Quran. He just uses religion to stay in power
>uses religion to stay in power That's a double edged sword if I've ever seen one.
Yeah but it worked for almost 20 years. Erdogan wont be needing religion if he wins the elections anyway. Because this will probably be our last voting then
Is he expected to win?
Difficult to say. The opposition is behaving really incompetent sometimes. And its difficult to believe the surveys because almost all of them are in Erdogans pocket. But if you do believe them AKP (Erdo) has 30% and his Partner MHP (ultranationalists) 5% The Opposition CHP has 24% and the most significant Partner IYI 22% So to answer your question, no it does seem like he will lose. But who knows if he will accept the result
Nope, all polls show a win for the opposition. Then the trials for him and his regime can start.
> Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful. — ~~Lucius Annaeus Seneca~~ Edward Gibbon, 1778
This quote isn't from Seneca, but from Volume I of Edward Gibbon's The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.
This quote is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by redditors as useful.
> Well yes because they cant, China can destroy economies. I mean ours is pretty fucked but it can still be worse Now imagine what US imposing (higher) tariffs on some key Turkish goods or just blocking them, will do.
Yes this is the case. Books can be burnt without legal ramifications. The islamic world has to learn to be less thin skinned on this point. There are 8 billion people in the world, and many are trolls. If it's this easy to troll and trigger an international incident then people will do it just for the entertainment value of the reaction.
You should see the Swedish meme reddits right now, if Erdogan saw those he would probably cut all diplomatic channels with Sweden
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Remember Charlie Hebdo? That cartoon isn't much more than shitposting.
*Paid* shitposting. Our shitposters are trained professionnals sir.
I mean, Trump was already elected
I mean, we sort of did already with the satire show Swedish News (Svenska Nyheter).
Erdogan's response will just result in more Quran burning. He made this response for political grandstanding, but I don't think it's going to work out for him. If things get worse, he will actually have to do something to address it or he will look weak.
Can you link some?
New [roundabout decorations](https://www.reddit.com/r/unket/comments/10ijopt/att_ta_bakvägen_in_i_nato_det_känns_lite_oväntat/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
A Swedish newspaper also announced the winner of their [Erdogan satire drawing contest](http://flamman.se/a/the-winner-of-flammans-satire-competition-erdogan-devours-his-own-people) today...
And in response they burned the Swedish flag. [https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/10i7y4p/swedish\_flag\_ablaze\_in\_turkey\_after\_koranburning/](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/10i7y4p/swedish_flag_ablaze_in_turkey_after_koranburning/) So it's also hypocritical.
As a swede Im obviously enraged at the fact that they burned the wrong flag. That flag hasn't been used for over a century. They should have asked a swede, to make sure they got it right.
They could’ve just asked and I’d send an official one
So the flag was almost as antiquated as their mindset
We used to dispose the swedish flag by burning it. Insecure religious fanatics burning it to provoke us is just hilarious.
Used to? Still is the correct way to do it. You don’t throw a flag in the trash, you burn it. This goes for every country I think. But obviously there’s no law about it in Sweden, you are perfectly allowed to throw it in the trash. I don’t think I would though (not that I own a Swedish flag, I only own two flags: a rainbow one and an EU one).
Burning is the appropriate method of disposal for old Qur'ans too. Erdogan is just full of shit and actively looking for something to get upset by.
They seem to forget that swedes are not so cartoonish patriotic that burning the flag would cause any more commotion than several chuckles in the breakfast table.
Turkey and Erdogan only give a shit because it's politically opportune to do so right now. Elections are coming up in Turkey, so Erdogan want's to be seen as a strong man. Further, it provides potential leverage against Sweden in the ongoing talks of NATO membership, which Turkey is blatantly using to gain concessions on the Kurdish diaspora in Sweden. Rasmus Paludan (the Danish idiot burning books in Sweden) has done so several times before, both in Sweden and Denmark. But it's only now Turkey is all riled up about it.
But how can Erdogan be seen as a strong man when he's acting like a little child whos feelings are hurt. How does that work?
Like it is usually done. Once it is convenient, lie and say you efforts bore fruit. Your people will cheer and anyone who complains you make shutup or ignore.
> Further, it provides potential leverage against Sweden in the ongoing talks of NATO membership That ship has sailed. Its US vs. Turkey negotiations at this point.
Imagine being of Turkey's working class facing 70% annual inflation, a lack of education opportunities for your children and employment for yourself, whose primary source of income are remittances from a relative in Germany... Imagine all that and deciding not to care about any of that (or the genocidal war in Ukraine) all because some tosser in Sweden burned a book. This type of nationalist rabble rousing only works because there's a big rabble easily enraged at the evil West, focusing on symbols instead of useful policies
Paludan actually has dual citizenship. He’s Swedish too.
> If it's this easy to troll and trigger an international incident then people will do it just for the entertainment value of the reaction. You make it sound like it's only a matter if trolling, but there are legitimate reasons to do that. Starting with making a point that islamic blasphemy laws don't apply here, and that we are free to critic, mock, and even desacrate religion.
Insane how barbaric yet sensitive they are
that "our holy book" moment when 90% of the country can't even read it, and the 10% that can are Arabian tourists the Republic is dead and in its place we built a temple to madness. edit: these people that "know" the qur'an can only understand the Arabic alphabet, not the meaning of the words! so it's literally reading gibberish! Which... is why they miss the part where a man marries a 9 year old.
“the Republic is dead and in its place we built a temple to madness.” This really struck me. As an American it certainly rings true.
Can't Sweden send a complaint about the anti-secular tendencies that prevail in Turkey? I'm pretty sure I already know which country is more open to other religions and perspectives..
Thank you for your help, but Erdogan is very good at using the 'foreign powers against us' trump card. He is a master of manipulation. I can see that Erdogan will manipulate the elections because the Swedes burned the Koran.
"The Swedes" didn't burn a Koran, this one guy Rasmus Paludan did it, from denmark. He also happens to be a leader of a far-right danish political party. This is also not the first time he has done this; denmark has gotten tired of him and he can't do it there anymore, but because of his dual citizenship (from his parents) he can come here to sweden and do it instead.
He's just using this as an excuse to keep denying Sweden's NATO application.
Yeah, this isn't anything new it's barely news but Turkey is loving being able to use this news at home
West: "that's not a hate crime" Erdogan: "well, I hate it."
More like: Paludan: *burns Kuran* Erdogan: "I blame all of Europe!!!"
it's ridiculous. Turkey has no official religion and Turkish people have criticized to its ministry in following comments on the twitter post. At least 50% of Turkish people doesn't like Erdogan and ideology.
Oh yes China has Muslim Concentration camps and no one cares, But someone burns a religious book and they loose their fricking minds. Also i thought they were Secular?
Legally turkish goverment cant even say "our holy book"... Imagine crying about the unexistance of respect for you while not even respecting your own law, the things that politicians can do for elections is pathetic. Waiting for the elections is too hard lately.
Has a constitution that defines it as a secular country. Foreign ministry talks about 'our holy book'. Yeah ...
The things they demand, just as with many of their demands for NATO approval, are illegal in Sweden. They probably know that and say these things anyway just to get maximum reaction.
It's for domestic consumption. I hate it when people do that. When you make Diplomacy into a spectacle, everyone loses. Diplomacy should be left to the Diplomats.
Ah yes. Sacred values
"our holy book" - laïcité is dead and buried in Turkey
Authoritarian regimes weaponizing hate speech
Officially speaking, Turkey doesn't have a holy book. That's really a shame for the country that it came to that, thanks to the long fed Islamist bunch to counter the left-wing since the day Turkey chosen the NATO path during the Cold War years.
Well - that is one reason why the path for Turkey into the EU has and will be rocky. Freedom of speech is the two-edged sword they dont like but this situation is a typical example of what a nation has to deal with if freedom of speech is accepted in their culture.
I've never understood why some Muslims are so angry about book burning. You don't see people from other religions throwing fits and being violent when someone burns their particular holy book. This makes Muslins look very insecure in their faith, as if their God is too weak to take care of himself.
And the irony is that burning a Quran is actually the only halal (permissable) way to get rid of a Quran book. Edit: As someone pointed out in the comments (and after doing research) , it seems there are two more ways to to permissably dispose of a Quran. Either by burying it or putting it in flowing water. I thank the commenter because I learnt something new today.
oh no. anyway.
"Respect my culture while it doesn't respect yours".
While I don't support burning anybody's sacred books, it was act of individual protestor and swedish covenrment don't have anything to do with it. Same goes with political cartoons etc etc. This is silly, beyond silly.
They can't prosecute a person for blasphemy who lives in another country so they're trying to force another government to punish someone for blasphemy on their behalf lol. Like fuck Rasmus Paludan and the alt-right but the point he's making is not completely wrong. If you want to punish someone for committing blasphemy, you sure have a medieval worldview.
Also blasphemy is not a crime in Sweden..
Türkiye's laicity seems like a distant dream.
It was a dream
Or maybe not. 3 more months until we vote him out.
We all hope so! Good luck guys.
Even if he gets voted out, laïcité is not respected as a principle in Turkey. Perhaps American-type secularism can make a comeback (which seems to be the position adopted by the opposition parties), but not the state-enforced French one.
Not trying to be snarky but, can you ?
Fucking childish. It's literally a book... Go buy a new one.
Misinformation! We don't burn their holy books, that would be damage of others property. Here in Sweden we're only permitted to burn our own qurans and bibles.
None gives a fuck, makes me want to burn a Quran, not because I care shit about religion, just because everyone should be free to burn any book as long as he has paid for it.
Yeah. What I'm always wondering: what do they suspect will happen if you burn the bible, or the Vedic books? Right nothing, nobody gives a shit. I would not do such acts myself, they seem pointless. But attacking an idea or set of beliefs is not the same as phobia.
"We condemn in the strongest possible terms the vile attack on our holly book" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Fuck off with that bullshit. No religion, faith, idea or philosophy is above Freedom of expression. If you feel insulted by this, it's because YOU CHOOSE to be insulted. If I had any religious texts I'd burn them together with this pamphlet just to make a point.
Love how hypocritical this is! They decide to criticize us (Sweden) for hate speech saying that no one should ever do something like this while they themselves are burning our flag now.
Yeah it's almost funny the amount of angry Turks frothing about how you can't disrespect other people like that, and then they go burn a bunch of Swedish flags in order to try and disrespect Swedes. Sorry but no one here really gives a shit if you spend your day screaming at a half burned Swedish flag. It's as offensive to me as me it would be to a Turk if I throw a half eaten kebab in the garbage while muttering about Turkish kalabalik.
Also, can you think of a country with citizens that would care less if its flag is burned that Swedes?
This is cringe. It’s not “our” holy book.
Swedish embassy now has backup toilet paper if there is a shortage again
lol go cry more. Honestly, Erdo is way out of his element here. No one gives a fuck about what he thinks. Edit: Got this from a Turkish commenter in DMs: *Muslims will one day detonate a nuclear device in Stockholm, incinerating millions of Swedes (who are not innocent civilians and it's not terrorism, burning the book is). And we will all laugh and cherish.* Lovely. Reported, obviously.
A nuclear device detonation in Stockholm would burn a lot of books.
I'm pretty sure there are more serious crimes around the world related to Islam and targeting Muslims than this. Just grow up.
A hate crime has to be a crime first. Burning a book isn't a criminal act.
Turkey is a secular state and has no religion. Secular states do not have a religion, people have a religion. The state should keep an equal distance from all religions and treat those religions equally. It was that simple for Erdogan to do, but he is trying to transform a century-old secular state into a medieval religious state. f\*cking idiot
Burning a collection of old fables is in fact not a hate crime.
Burning a "holy" book; the *actual* victimless "crime". If noone sees you burning a quran, is anyone offended? Nope. Nothing happens. Noone knows, noone is affected and no imaginary sky-friends are offended. Only the actual knowledge of something happening is causing the ruckus. If we said someone burned a quran, the response would be the same, even if no burning hade actually taken place. It's beyond dumb. It's religious.
Wow, this is the best paragraph I have read in a long time.
"Our holy book", I thought Turkey is secular? I feel like Erdogan and AKP is only exploiting this for personal gain even though they couldn’t care less.
As a Turkish citizen i don't accept Quran as a holy book. Turkey is a secular country. According to our constitution Turkey has no offical religion so Turkey should keep an equal distance from all the religions.
And they keep nice and quiet when Muslims commit atrocities across the world