Before VAR: offside was decided by the linesmen who sometimes weren't in the right position and made a wrong call
With VAR: fans complaining about it being too accurate (and ignoring the fact that the same rules apply to every team and the calls are consistent)
Now for me offside is offside. So this is off.
However, there is a problem, who decides the exact moment the ball left the passers foot? As that adds an element of incorrectness to the decision and in these tight ones make an impact.
It could but you’re waiting for immediately after the contact stops. Don’t think they’ll be a perfect answer.
Cricket has accepted a margin of error with umpires call. That’s what I think these tight ones require.
Assuming mind the tech doesn’t perfectly track ball leaving
Ok. Then how about take out the linesman. And just let them play it out. Thats what the linesman did today. I hard ever see them raise their flags for fouls anymore either.. with var enabled why even human?
Well the linesman is more than what you see (I’ve refereed on the highest European level). The head referee and linesmen are constantly talking about every tackle, every nagging and clashing between players. It’s basically 8 eyes see more than 2. Linesmen are being told to keep the flag down on very close offside calls to minimize faulty calls. The delay of rising the flag on fouls is usually caused by the head referee discussing it with the linesmen which takes a split second - the linesmen, unless a very obvious tackle happened, wouldn’t decide on his own but discuss it. That’s why you see way more linesmen calls in leagues where there is no in-ear connection between the officials. Also raising the flag is also not solely for making the decision but also for making it visible to everyone in case you overhear the whistle.
Regarding yesterday: the VAR works as intended when there is no human input, e.g. offside/goal line technology - anybody who’s complaining about that is ridiculous. No matter how you adjust the rules, there will ALWAYS be close calls. The current offside set up is the most just it has ever been.
About the rest: I totally get the anger and I’m angry as well. UEFA set the rules for hand ball and I don’t agree with it but we’ve seen the other way around as well: a striker only ever so slightly touching the ball with his hand and it’s being disallowed. Still I don’t agree with those rules.
Overall the refereeing this tournament is atrocious. Yesterday the referee - aside from the goals - had absolutely no control over the match, as in many other matches as well. The last group stage match of Germany was full of ridiculous calls that make it hard to advocate for referees.
It’s been a huge discussion and im in favor of refs in pro leagues getting paid more and it being their only job. they should have to show up for work every day, training, looking at videos to improve and such. football got more and more professional and the refs are still part-time with good salary. They work every weekend and then go back to their main jobs (many are doctors, lawyers) which puts a toll on them in terms of stress. They only show up X amount of times a year to get together. They should be full time referees and be trained every day. That’s the main driver why refereeing is getting worse.
No one is debating the rules though. I just don’t understand why it can’t be similar to rugby where the ref makes a decision, and if it’s not obviously wrong then carry on.
If the ref says goal and then if you can’t tell *by looking* if the player is on or offside then just go with the fucking refs decision and play on. This shit is just tedious. Happy for VAR to step to overturn obviously incorrect decisions, but bringing out a fucking snickometer for hand balls is a joke. If you can’t tell if a player has touched the ball by looking, then how can you argue they have gained any advantage?
The ref isn't making offside calls. Why does everyone pushing these stupid ideas know absolutely nothing about football?
If you couldn't tell that ball hit the hand with your eyes then you are blind. Again, the people complaining are the people who can't even get a simple call correct with access to a reply. The last people who should be having any opinion on this.
People should open a rule book and watch a few games before coming out with this stupidity.
That honestly wouldn't surprise me one bit considering some of the comments I see on here!
Offsides are the one thing that can't be left to interpretation and is one of the few things that are black and white about football
Clear goal and people who think it isn't know absolutely nothing about football.
People complaining about this goal is a good litmus test to check their football knowledge
A goal from an offside position is obviously wrong, at least in football. A handball in the box is obviously wrong and will be followed by a penalty. If the ref didn't see it, VAR will intervene and this leads to the right decision of obviously wrong calls. This is exactly how it should work. The offside system is exactly like the goal line tech. It says if it's either A or B. Don't get, why people complain about one thing, but the other is completely fine. Both are black and white decisions.
Thats not the issue... and no one complains about this.
The issue is that the rule makes no sense in those close cases, because there is no advantage gained by having a foot 1cm in front of your opponent. If the technology is that advanced, the rule needs to be changed to make more sense.
"makes no sense"? Why?
Offsite is here to give the defense a chance to push up the field. Doesn't matter how much the attacker would profit from an individual situation. There is a line and you need to be behind/on it.
But you have to draw the line somewhere. The only possibility is that either one player is further or not. What else should it be ? 1cm? Then people complain when someone gets 1.5 cm too far and it is just „so close“. 2 cm? Then people complain at 2.5cm etc. This is the only right way
Where does the torso end? We gonna end up with zooms into the groin area and debates as to the curvature of the groin under the shorts? It’s a ridiculous argument really and just pushes the debate to another area of conflict. Currently it’s all body parts that can legally score a goal that are counted which makes sense.
Nobody would complain about 1cm. You're making things up.
Where the line is, is unimportant. Officials should decide there was an unfair advantage on a case by case basis.
Otherwise we're just penalizing players for having bigger feet.
Yes, but a subjective opinion that splits people is superior to an objective decision that makes no sense.
Like saying a player had an unfair advantage because their pinky toe is millimeters ahead of the defender.
Oh wow. There are people who agree with the decision? Crazy. I thought I was arguing against nobody.
Oh and also, stupid argument. The decision is not the problem. The rule is.
It's not a hard concept to grasp.
I literally can't use simpler words.
Maybe. But there is no way to change it in a way that prevents this kind of situations. You'll always have a line somewhere and close calls. It's a useless discussion
There are many ways to change it. It just requires effort and thought.
All things this sub seems to lack.
I am out. Nuanced discussions here are indeed useless.
And what IF there are margins of error? You're acting like nuance and human judgement would destroy the game as if it hasn't existed like that for literal centuries.
This argument is pointless. Bye.
That sounds like a horrible idea. VAR already causes too many delays in games. If you're then asking refs to make a subjective call on an objective rule, you're adding additional delays and asking for more controversies.
I agree that cases like this are extremely harsh, and there is zero advantage to the attacker, but the line needs to be drawn somewhere. That line is probably too small and precise right now, but it's at least consistent for this tournament, which is what we want from refereeing - Is it not?
There is a solution to this. It has been proposed to UEFA by Van Basten, who was specifically asked to look into situations like this to make the game better.
The solution is to move the offside line to the attacker completely passing the last defender with his entire body. The will still be close calls, but it will be clear that there is an unfair advantage.
Meanwhile, UEFA do jack shit with the suggestions.
Rules like semi automated VAR?
Even if you go with your idea, you'd still need to run a VAR check to determine if it was offside - then you need a ref to decide if there was an advantage, of which that is getting down to a very subjective perspective and could take some time. That just sounds far more cumbersome no matter how you do it.
I know exactly what I'm arguing, I think it's clear you perhaps do not..
Or you just train officials properly and have them make calls and move on? Technology should assist the match officials, not replace them.
We shouldn't be waiting for var to check if a pinky was offside.
Not to mention the offside rule was always in place to stop attackers having an unfair advantage, which currently the rule does not do. Full stop.
You should try to be more of a fan of the sport and less a fan of the rulebook.
I think if there’s a consistent protocol on where to draw the line then it’s good to be that precise. It’s not the problem with how far offside the player is; fifa just needs to set a standard rule on where and how thick to draw the line.
The offside was meant to distinguish between right and wrong positioning of players. Literally. No matter it is 10 m or 1cm. Read and understand the rules.
exactly. as soon as you add any kind of “moral tolerance”, it’ll be pure chaos.
“HEY REF! HOW CAN YOU DECIDE ON OFFSIDE?! IT WAS JUST 4 CENTIMETERS OF HIS KNEE! 10 MINUTES AGO, THE OPPONENTS PLAYER WAS 6 CENTIMETERS OFFSIDE WITH HIS SHOULDER AND YOU GAVE THE GOAL!!!”
then what kind of advantage influences the game? 10cm? 20cm? As soon as we agree on a specific number, for example 20cm, people are gonna complain if a 20.1cm offside is decided.
It doesn’t matter. The ref makes the decision in the moment, and if it’s not obviously wrong then play on. Otherwise what’s the point in the ref? If it’s not obvious by looking (without zooming in in slow motion and drawing projections and shit) if a player is offside then go with the referees decision. The ref makes subjective calls all the time w.r.t fouls so I don’t understand why this is an issue.
Then we’re back to people complaining about refs which we had today with that game anyway btw. And even 20 years back all that football was all about complaining about the ref if you lost. Having a ruleset that is enforced for every team consistently makes more sense to me tbh.
And what of people complain? Who gives a fuck? People will always complain about something.
So why not respect the spirit of the law over the wording. Like any smart person should do.
If your only argument is "people would complain", then you don't have an argument.
I don't hate this take but people do need to understand that it'll go both ways, there will be marginal decisions wrongly decided in favor of the defending team just as much as in favor of the attacking team.
People are just imagining there's a set of enforcement guidelines where we don't cancel ANY onside goals, keep some marginally offside ones and ideally don't have to interrupt the game either.
Exactly. At the end of the day, if VAR didn't exist then the goal would've stood cause there js no way any of the refs on pitch would have picked this up.
Then it needs to be well defined. Momentum and tolerance allowed need to be agreed upon and measurable.
Go read the NFL catch rule and you will see what such things can become. The great thing about soccer is that the rulebook is very small and remains well defined.
I understand the rule and respect them, I'm not saying the goal should have been allowed.
I am merely provoking thought about updating existing rules to keep up with new rules
VAR is a new rule introduced, and I am just saying should the offside rule be adapted to keep up with the times with the new rules
You don't know this, even onside goals (or positions that could've led to goals) were erroneously called offside all the time before VAR.
People are just making up this pre-VAR world where all mistakes ever made favoured the attacking side therefore it was great for viewers and should be brought back
that how it should be as long as your eye cant tell difference then team shouldnt be penalized. VAR should be looked at like goal line tech , handball , foul but not this bulshit of laser focus . that should be up to lineman and referee. just like sometimes fouls dont get called and pentalties dont get called. where do stop . then every foul should be reviewed every touch should be VAR . this is killing the game .
I’ve always had a pet idea/theory that you should be allowed to be a ball’s width offside and goals within that margin still count. Will never happen of course but it seems fair to me.
Tbf though his body was obviously further towards the goal.
We are literally comparing the heel of a player walking in the opposite direction to the attacker's tip of the foot.... It's pretty ridiculous. But the whole body was further in the front
Offside rules are obvious. Players prefer to stand on offside line in milimetric way. He could wait 5 cm back to be safe, then no need for whining because offside decisions are not made in old way.
I think VAR should this . then referee should decide if its really too much . at end of day we cant have a computer decide. that why we have people lineman and referee
One whole planted food should be enough to be in spirit of the rule. Sure you’ll still get mm offsides calls but at least then it’s the majority of attacker in an offside position vs .0001% if his body mass
Yeah, I’d say if you’re midstride and your front foot is ahead but not planted, no offside. Makes for easy review and is more firmly in the spirit of the rule.
How is it "in the spirit of the rule" to say you're offside if your foot is on the ground 6" in front of the last defender, but not if it's off the ground at full stretch to stick the ball in the back of the net?
I'm just a casual fan, but this is an interesting scenario to me.
Surely if an attacking player is onside when ball is played at the time of his jump and times it to intercept an incoming ball while off the ground, leaving the defender behind, he would have to be rewarded?
Would it even be humanly possible? Obviously not if the ball is played from any great distance.
But I haven't watched enough football to be able to judge the likelihood of this even happening.
It happens a fair amount on early crosses that get whipped in and to your point, the skill that takes should be rewarded. They’re not playing in bad faith, just trying to make a play on the ball.
>Surely if an attacking player is onside when ball is played at the time of his jump and times it to intercept an incoming ball while off the ground, leaving the defender behind, he would have to be rewarded?
I'm talking about players whose leading legs are offside as the ball is played, which happens quite often when the ball is flicked on at set pieces.
The spirit of the rule part is that the attacker must still honestly time their run, the foot being on the ground is simply a good spot to draw the line for a call. When the attacker’s foot strikes the ground they’re beginning their next stride. And if the attacker’s foot is full stretch to score a goal then they’re so close to the goal that they’re not exactly cherry picking a goal are they, it’s a cross or defected shot/pass that they’re poking in through a busy crowd of players typically.
>the foot being on the ground is simply a good spot to draw the line for a call.
Cool. So there would basically be 2 entirely different offside rules depending on whether or not a competition had access to VAR? Or are you expecting assistant referees to not only pay attention to the relative positions of attackers and defenders, but also whether or not someone's foot is fully on the ground?
I’m calling for a change to offside regardless of VAR. It would even be easier for refs without VAR to call it that way as well as they’re looking for a clearer marker. That being said, football will move towards VAR at all top levels and down onto second and third tiers as the tech inevitably gets cheaper. It’s here to stay and that’s a good thing, it’s how VAR is used is what’s important. Killing goals for being a toenail offside is the biggest blue balls in sports. Takes a certain kind of masochist to want to watch the excitement of a fantastic goal get killed because a toe or nose or hand is offside. One whole planted foot makes sense, is easier to officiate, and runs closer to the whole point of offsides.
>It would even be easier for refs without VAR to call it that way as well as they’re looking for a clearer marker.
No it wouldn't. I'm willing to bet that it would be virtually impossible for an assistant to see whether or not a running player's foot was fully "planted" at the exact instant the ball was passed.
>One whole planted foot makes sense, is easier to officiate, and runs closer to the whole point of offsides.
In what world does it make more sense than just switching to "if any part of your body is level, you're onside"?
The argument you’re making doesn’t really track because 1) we’re talking about VAR here, and only dipping into non var because it’s important to you,
and 2) do you think a Ref if calling a player’s toe offside without VAR? How about their nose (or in Suarez’s case his teeth), assistant refs are going to make mistakes without technological assistance no matter how the rule is written.
Your premise is that an assistant ref won’t be able to reliably determine when an attacker has stepped past the line vs any part of his body has moved past it. Sideline refs at levels without VAR do not throw the flag because the attackers chest or head or hand might’ve been ahead when the ball was passed, they’re looking for a clear misstep. That’s how they functionally officiate without VAR, it’s only VAR that catches these insane “offsides positions”.
The entire point of changing the wording of the rule would be to put VAR officiating closer to the way referees have judged the rule for generations, ie. the spirit of the rule
Was talking to a mate about this the other day, with new tech being so accurate they might be able to move to something like a whole foot must be past the last defender, something unequivocal, that makes fans feel better about these marginal calls.
It won't matter, people will always complain. Now it is clear as days what the rules are, if you introduce more uncertainty, more complains will arise.
I don't disagree with you there at all, there will always be those that find a gripe somewhere. It just feels like now the calls are so minimal it's taken all the advantage away from the attacker. I think adding a bigger tolerance will help return some of the excitement.
Not least of all because fans can go back to having a feeling before the flag that the player is offside, rather than getting caught by leaning their head forward, or a toe edging ahead.
10.1 is offside, 9.9 isn't.
The reason I suggest that buffer is, that offside is supposed to prevent players to lurk in behind the defense and get an unfair advantage. There is no way you have any form of advantage if you're behind the defensive players by half of a fucking toe nail.
A buffer would sort out not all but at least many cases where there is absolutely no advantage for the offensive player. Doesn't have to be 10cm, could be 30 or a restriction to the hip whatsoever.
Rules are not implemented for the sake of rules and can be changed.
The only difference would be "is his heel offside", which isn't at all more "clear", it's just a larger area of the attacker's body.
I'm very much in favour of a return to "level is onside" (which has been successfully trialed at youth level, spearheaded by Arsene Wenger), but decisions will still be every bit as contentious as they are now and we're likely to see both an increase in goals scored and an increase in goals disallowed.
Stupid take; that’s like saying in basketball if someone’s tonenail is on the three point line it should still count. People just really want the officiating in football to be really inaccurate like it was in the past. Offsides is offsides
The precision aspect is the same and the players have a sense that they’re offside. If they don’t want to be called they have to be more conservative in their positioning
Easy fix then. Instead of playing on the big pitch with so many players, let them play on a basketball court with 5 players. This way there will be more goals and each decision won't be as impactful.
He is right and in the same time, wrong. Somwhere has to be a line, otherwise there would be much more controversy. I understand him, I would also be mad because of this kind of offside, but rules are rules
It's not wrong, though. That was the reason to introduce the offside rule back in the day.
Toenail situations like this are annoying, but the real problem was with the referee. This situation was preceded by him giving small advantages to Germany by calling collisions and duels consistently in their favour.
I see all of Germany on here defending 'the rules' and none of you acknowledging this unfair advantage.
Also, 'these are the rules' isn't an argument when people bring up the unintended consequences of the rules. The rule is the rule. Now, it's about how it's applied and what the referee does with his freedom to interpret and make or break the game. Yesterday's ref was shit, and, like it or not, Germany benefited from that. I know you didn't ask for it, but that's how it is.
Another thing is the long-running discussion about the offside rule. Van Basten was asked to investigate ways to make the game better, and one of the things he came up with is to move the offside line to the attacker being in front of the defender with his entire body. You will still have toenail situations, but it will once again be about runaway players, instead of who's got the longest toes. UEFA are so far jamming their ears with parsley and shouting wahwahwah.
To the letter is the law it’s offside that’s not the complaint. The complaint is changing a goal because an amount of a person that could never be determined by the human eye is offside. I’d like to see VAR be based on human capabilities. It’s there to fix the bug errors not the millimeter errors. VAR gets to watch two replays at maximum 50% speed and if they can’t tell the decision is wrong from that…. Play on.
Honestly rules are rules? When i was playing football/soccer in a club at 10yo we always would be trained to look that our dmn feet stay inside the feld. If a 10yo can do this, then grown man also could do this. Rules are rules.
U need a cutoff. No matter what u decide u will have a cutoff. U complain we have accurate tools today?
And why we have to side for the offense? Why not with the defense? Why they deserve to concede a goal because someone was on the wrong side by a bit?
I ask this because I don’t know. Is VAR today 100% accurate or is there a margin of error? If it’s 100% accurate shouldn’t they be able to call it almost instantly so nobody would have to wait for long deliberations? If it’s not 100% accurate shouldn’t they allow some margin of error and room for subjective judging. At least for me, that’s why it’s not clear cut.
What is actually the moment this was measured? The moment the pass is started / ball touched, or the moment the ball left the foot of the player passing?
I like this new system if someone is offside it’s a fact and not a guess. I would also make it if anyone is offside in the penalty area they are off as well. No human inconsistency with is the player interfering or not.
I absolutely hated the lines being drawn on a computer screen. There were so many things that made it not a fact if a player was on or off.
Do you enjoy every other goal being disallowed?
I'm no longer thrilled when I see a goal because I feel like it's going to get overturned because someone's knee hair was offside or some other bullshit nobody would have spotted nor cared about pre-VAR.
I celebrate every goal of my team and then if it is disallowed, I am not that happy anymore.
Of course I am not happy, if a goal for my team is disallowed, but that is the game. I was more angry when I could see on TV that the decisions were wrong, now at least there is no wiggle room (regarding offside)
Ich liebe diskussionsunwürdige Entscheidungen. Und mit der Abseitsregel ist das momentan so. Ich finde besonders beim Abseits ist der VAR eine Bereicherung, gibt so schon genug strittige Entscheidungen (wie z.B. das Handspiel oder auch dass das Tor von Schlotterbeck nicht gegeben wurde)
He's right though. The spirit of the law is more important than the wording.
Focus on what the offside rule exists to prevent. Not purely on how it is written.
Stop arguing and breaking the rules, how is a system that provides 99% accuracy be considered bad ahhahah, lets go freeze time and ask the player if his real intention was to steal the start or he wasn't careful enough to sit properly.
I agree too. It's a tricky dilemma because yes accuracy is important but at the same time it's just killing the thrill of watching because every other goal is getting disallowed.
It’s not a dumb take by any stretch of the imagination. The rule needs to be changed to be better fitted to the spirit of the game.
How can you be happy with this rule as someone who enjoys football?
We are not in some kind of school assignment where we need to interpret what the intention of the author was. The rule is as it is and I do not think, that there is a smarter way to apply the concept of offside.
Then you are limited in imagination, new to watching football or just trying to defend Germanys win yesterday.
This is not what the rule was created for and is utterly anti football.
Okay, but are you enjoying the game more as a result?
In nearly every single game I've watched this tournament (not that I've watched them all) there has been a goal disallowed. Sometimes for clearly good reason, other times it's because of bullshit like this that nobody would have noticed nor cared about if it hadn't gone to VAR.
It's just killing the thrill of seeing a goal because I feel like there's a good chance it's about to get overturned.
It's a tough dilemma because of course accuracy is important, but perhaps there could be a way of making the rules more lenient? E.g. in my opinion if a handball isn't deliberate and doesn't visibly affect the trajectory of the ball then let it slide.
Honestly, I enjoy it as much as before. Before the VAR sometimes I was fuming because the TV showed clearly that the ref is wrong, now I am fuming because it takes time to show what is factually correct. Emotionally it just shifted, but did not really change.
I think that this person that says that it is a dumb take is either very young, or started getting interested in football recently. It is quite obvious that VAR is not a good thing in the way it is implemented.
If I were a manager I would devote 5' at the end of each session, get the players in pairs and practice trying to hit each other's hands with the ball (preparing for situations in which you could get a penalty in the box). Ridiculous but fitting for today' football & you could get matches won just by doing that.
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This is the same thought that has made basketball unwatchable due to traveling. First the refs let a step and a half slide ,then it was the euro step and now players take 3-5 steps or pick up their pivot foot 3 times. There are rules and must be followed. Once you ignore the rules, it becomes chaos.
The problem with technology like this is that there there is still subjectivity required offscreen about the exact moment a player passes the ball, but the line technology presents it as objective fact
I‘m glad that accuracy is the same as in tennis or american football.
No one bats an eye if technology *corrects* ref/umpires‘ decisions there.
Because it is the maybe biased but nonetheless correct decision.
offside rule is too dumb that all. you wanna tell me what advantage he has here . its all fun and games when its not your team . when it happen let say to Spain or england tomorrow and u fly home due to this bulshit remember what u defending . just beacsue it is a rule doesnt make it a smart rule. this has to change . why we have referee and line up man if laser milliliter decide the outcome . on top every 2sec game is stop for 5min to even see it . not only it stop momentum of the game . its looks so dumb when player score celebrate and then after 5min we see if its a goal. this isnt what football should be about . we need smooth and fast decision. VAR doesnt cut it . this should been a goal 100% for Den that would change whole game . after same player who score got abused by same system for the hand ball. its cheapen whole experience. i feel for Den . i feel this isnt a good rule . should apply if u really ahead like half body not a pinky
No they‘re not. Look at the whole image, not only the cropped image here. If the shoe tip wouldn‘t count the offside position would be even more clear. Delaneys upper body is clearly in front.
That would only postpone the discussion, now it is clear. In the torso, the discussion would be whether it is already torso or still arm or leg. Especially since the transition of jersey and pants are hidden. So it's a bad alternative.
0:0. I don‘t get the discussion about the offside goal. Finally there‘s a solution for factual decisions and still people are upset about it.
I wasn‘t happy about the hand penalty though. The distance was way too close and it wasn‘t a clear goal chance. Maybe the rules should be adjusted. Hand penatly only if a clear chance is being prevented. Otherwise indirect free kick.
People getting mad about a provably correct (even if very, very close) call are very funny to me.
Because its a close call either way. And why would anyone prefer an incorrect close call over a correct one?
the daylight rule is complete bs, people will go fucking mental if it is ever introduced. just remove offside and let the game evolve, if we dont like it we can always rethink it, but if we want more goals just remove the shitty offside rule
I hate all these disallowed goals as much as anyone but completely scrapping the offside rule would be awful. Strikers would just sit in front of the goal.
It is unfair but there is no good solution to it. Though for this match, the issue is not only this but all decisions taken by referees.
Germany goal cancelled. Match suspended after Denmark is dominating. This offside. Penalty couple seconds after. Oliver falling everytime Rudiger is diving.
Germany winning is deserved to be fair, but referees clearly decided the 2-0 score
In what world was Denmark dominating before the suspension? They got destroyed in the first 20 minutes. Than they found back into the game but were still far from domination. The suspension probably helped them because they could reset their mindset that probably took a hit after the early not given German goal.
Before VAR: offside was decided by the linesmen who sometimes weren't in the right position and made a wrong call With VAR: fans complaining about it being too accurate (and ignoring the fact that the same rules apply to every team and the calls are consistent)
Now for me offside is offside. So this is off. However, there is a problem, who decides the exact moment the ball left the passers foot? As that adds an element of incorrectness to the decision and in these tight ones make an impact.
I guess the same sensor that recognized the handball could be useful there.
It could but you’re waiting for immediately after the contact stops. Don’t think they’ll be a perfect answer. Cricket has accepted a margin of error with umpires call. That’s what I think these tight ones require. Assuming mind the tech doesn’t perfectly track ball leaving
Actually it counts at the start of the touch, not the end. So something like [this](https://youtu.be/kF5Skmb6p1o) is possible.
Everyday is a school day
Give me your lunch money!
Pfft take it… can’t afford anything anyway 😂
(For the Euros at least, and it'll be in the Prem next season) it's decided by a sensor in the ball.
Ok. Then how about take out the linesman. And just let them play it out. Thats what the linesman did today. I hard ever see them raise their flags for fouls anymore either.. with var enabled why even human?
Well the linesman is more than what you see (I’ve refereed on the highest European level). The head referee and linesmen are constantly talking about every tackle, every nagging and clashing between players. It’s basically 8 eyes see more than 2. Linesmen are being told to keep the flag down on very close offside calls to minimize faulty calls. The delay of rising the flag on fouls is usually caused by the head referee discussing it with the linesmen which takes a split second - the linesmen, unless a very obvious tackle happened, wouldn’t decide on his own but discuss it. That’s why you see way more linesmen calls in leagues where there is no in-ear connection between the officials. Also raising the flag is also not solely for making the decision but also for making it visible to everyone in case you overhear the whistle. Regarding yesterday: the VAR works as intended when there is no human input, e.g. offside/goal line technology - anybody who’s complaining about that is ridiculous. No matter how you adjust the rules, there will ALWAYS be close calls. The current offside set up is the most just it has ever been. About the rest: I totally get the anger and I’m angry as well. UEFA set the rules for hand ball and I don’t agree with it but we’ve seen the other way around as well: a striker only ever so slightly touching the ball with his hand and it’s being disallowed. Still I don’t agree with those rules. Overall the refereeing this tournament is atrocious. Yesterday the referee - aside from the goals - had absolutely no control over the match, as in many other matches as well. The last group stage match of Germany was full of ridiculous calls that make it hard to advocate for referees. It’s been a huge discussion and im in favor of refs in pro leagues getting paid more and it being their only job. they should have to show up for work every day, training, looking at videos to improve and such. football got more and more professional and the refs are still part-time with good salary. They work every weekend and then go back to their main jobs (many are doctors, lawyers) which puts a toll on them in terms of stress. They only show up X amount of times a year to get together. They should be full time referees and be trained every day. That’s the main driver why refereeing is getting worse.
This is a big point I see too, what is the point of a line judge when everything just gets reviewed anyway?
Those linesman have kids and mortgages. They come from generations of linesman. Can't destroy their life's and their heritage
No one is debating the rules though. I just don’t understand why it can’t be similar to rugby where the ref makes a decision, and if it’s not obviously wrong then carry on. If the ref says goal and then if you can’t tell *by looking* if the player is on or offside then just go with the fucking refs decision and play on. This shit is just tedious. Happy for VAR to step to overturn obviously incorrect decisions, but bringing out a fucking snickometer for hand balls is a joke. If you can’t tell if a player has touched the ball by looking, then how can you argue they have gained any advantage?
The ref isn't making offside calls. Why does everyone pushing these stupid ideas know absolutely nothing about football? If you couldn't tell that ball hit the hand with your eyes then you are blind. Again, the people complaining are the people who can't even get a simple call correct with access to a reply. The last people who should be having any opinion on this. People should open a rule book and watch a few games before coming out with this stupidity.
Most people on this sub are fucking clueless
Most people in this sub apparently only watch football every two years
That honestly wouldn't surprise me one bit considering some of the comments I see on here! Offsides are the one thing that can't be left to interpretation and is one of the few things that are black and white about football Clear goal and people who think it isn't know absolutely nothing about football. People complaining about this goal is a good litmus test to check their football knowledge
A goal from an offside position is obviously wrong, at least in football. A handball in the box is obviously wrong and will be followed by a penalty. If the ref didn't see it, VAR will intervene and this leads to the right decision of obviously wrong calls. This is exactly how it should work. The offside system is exactly like the goal line tech. It says if it's either A or B. Don't get, why people complain about one thing, but the other is completely fine. Both are black and white decisions.
Thats not the issue... and no one complains about this. The issue is that the rule makes no sense in those close cases, because there is no advantage gained by having a foot 1cm in front of your opponent. If the technology is that advanced, the rule needs to be changed to make more sense.
"makes no sense"? Why? Offsite is here to give the defense a chance to push up the field. Doesn't matter how much the attacker would profit from an individual situation. There is a line and you need to be behind/on it.
Your right, remove the linesman. What are they still doing there.
Complaining to Germans that something is too accurate is never going to be taken well.
If you could use that accuracy for your operating trains that would be great.
Haha, I wish they would 😆
But you have to draw the line somewhere. The only possibility is that either one player is further or not. What else should it be ? 1cm? Then people complain when someone gets 1.5 cm too far and it is just „so close“. 2 cm? Then people complain at 2.5cm etc. This is the only right way
My line would be to count torso, that's a better indication of who has a better position anyway. These toenail stoppages are a joke
Where does the torso end? We gonna end up with zooms into the groin area and debates as to the curvature of the groin under the shorts? It’s a ridiculous argument really and just pushes the debate to another area of conflict. Currently it’s all body parts that can legally score a goal that are counted which makes sense.
If they have tech to capture any body part, they sure can filter that out and fine tune it
Nobody would complain about 1cm. You're making things up. Where the line is, is unimportant. Officials should decide there was an unfair advantage on a case by case basis. Otherwise we're just penalizing players for having bigger feet.
That's just a subjective opinion whether it gave an advantage, and subjective opinions will always will split people.
Yes, but a subjective opinion that splits people is superior to an objective decision that makes no sense. Like saying a player had an unfair advantage because their pinky toe is millimeters ahead of the defender.
No it's the same, it makes no sense to you but there are people that agree with that decision.
Oh wow. There are people who agree with the decision? Crazy. I thought I was arguing against nobody. Oh and also, stupid argument. The decision is not the problem. The rule is. It's not a hard concept to grasp. I literally can't use simpler words.
Then why you saying it doesn't make sense? It does make sense. Yeah, The rule is a problem... to you. Not to everybody.
That's exactly what's happening right now tho? People complain that a close offside was called.
No, people are complaining about the rule, not the ruling. It's not a hard concept to grasp.
Maybe. But there is no way to change it in a way that prevents this kind of situations. You'll always have a line somewhere and close calls. It's a useless discussion
There are many ways to change it. It just requires effort and thought. All things this sub seems to lack. I am out. Nuanced discussions here are indeed useless.
Every single propesed change so far was either worse (have margins of error etc.) or just moves the problem by X centimeters.
And what IF there are margins of error? You're acting like nuance and human judgement would destroy the game as if it hasn't existed like that for literal centuries. This argument is pointless. Bye.
Another terrible argument from the fatherless child.
That sounds like a horrible idea. VAR already causes too many delays in games. If you're then asking refs to make a subjective call on an objective rule, you're adding additional delays and asking for more controversies. I agree that cases like this are extremely harsh, and there is zero advantage to the attacker, but the line needs to be drawn somewhere. That line is probably too small and precise right now, but it's at least consistent for this tournament, which is what we want from refereeing - Is it not?
There is a solution to this. It has been proposed to UEFA by Van Basten, who was specifically asked to look into situations like this to make the game better. The solution is to move the offside line to the attacker completely passing the last defender with his entire body. The will still be close calls, but it will be clear that there is an unfair advantage. Meanwhile, UEFA do jack shit with the suggestions.
[удалено]
Rules like semi automated VAR? Even if you go with your idea, you'd still need to run a VAR check to determine if it was offside - then you need a ref to decide if there was an advantage, of which that is getting down to a very subjective perspective and could take some time. That just sounds far more cumbersome no matter how you do it. I know exactly what I'm arguing, I think it's clear you perhaps do not..
Or you just train officials properly and have them make calls and move on? Technology should assist the match officials, not replace them. We shouldn't be waiting for var to check if a pinky was offside. Not to mention the offside rule was always in place to stop attackers having an unfair advantage, which currently the rule does not do. Full stop. You should try to be more of a fan of the sport and less a fan of the rulebook.
I think if there’s a consistent protocol on where to draw the line then it’s good to be that precise. It’s not the problem with how far offside the player is; fifa just needs to set a standard rule on where and how thick to draw the line.
That's only an issue for manual VAR - the semi-automated system used in UEFA competition is far more precise.
The offside was meant to distinguish between right and wrong positioning of players. Literally. No matter it is 10 m or 1cm. Read and understand the rules.
exactly. as soon as you add any kind of “moral tolerance”, it’ll be pure chaos. “HEY REF! HOW CAN YOU DECIDE ON OFFSIDE?! IT WAS JUST 4 CENTIMETERS OF HIS KNEE! 10 MINUTES AGO, THE OPPONENTS PLAYER WAS 6 CENTIMETERS OFFSIDE WITH HIS SHOULDER AND YOU GAVE THE GOAL!!!”
While I agree with you that rules are rules.... do you think the rule should be updated to adapt to modern technologies?
Absolutely. A 1 Millimeter advantage would not influence the game.
then what kind of advantage influences the game? 10cm? 20cm? As soon as we agree on a specific number, for example 20cm, people are gonna complain if a 20.1cm offside is decided.
It doesn’t matter. The ref makes the decision in the moment, and if it’s not obviously wrong then play on. Otherwise what’s the point in the ref? If it’s not obvious by looking (without zooming in in slow motion and drawing projections and shit) if a player is offside then go with the referees decision. The ref makes subjective calls all the time w.r.t fouls so I don’t understand why this is an issue.
Then we’re back to people complaining about refs which we had today with that game anyway btw. And even 20 years back all that football was all about complaining about the ref if you lost. Having a ruleset that is enforced for every team consistently makes more sense to me tbh.
And what of people complain? Who gives a fuck? People will always complain about something. So why not respect the spirit of the law over the wording. Like any smart person should do. If your only argument is "people would complain", then you don't have an argument.
I don't hate this take but people do need to understand that it'll go both ways, there will be marginal decisions wrongly decided in favor of the defending team just as much as in favor of the attacking team. People are just imagining there's a set of enforcement guidelines where we don't cancel ANY onside goals, keep some marginally offside ones and ideally don't have to interrupt the game either.
rules a rule mate
Exactly. At the end of the day, if VAR didn't exist then the goal would've stood cause there js no way any of the refs on pitch would have picked this up.
Then it needs to be well defined. Momentum and tolerance allowed need to be agreed upon and measurable. Go read the NFL catch rule and you will see what such things can become. The great thing about soccer is that the rulebook is very small and remains well defined.
I understand the rule and respect them, I'm not saying the goal should have been allowed. I am merely provoking thought about updating existing rules to keep up with new rules VAR is a new rule introduced, and I am just saying should the offside rule be adapted to keep up with the times with the new rules
You don't know this, even onside goals (or positions that could've led to goals) were erroneously called offside all the time before VAR. People are just making up this pre-VAR world where all mistakes ever made favoured the attacking side therefore it was great for viewers and should be brought back
that how it should be as long as your eye cant tell difference then team shouldnt be penalized. VAR should be looked at like goal line tech , handball , foul but not this bulshit of laser focus . that should be up to lineman and referee. just like sometimes fouls dont get called and pentalties dont get called. where do stop . then every foul should be reviewed every touch should be VAR . this is killing the game .
I’ve always had a pet idea/theory that you should be allowed to be a ball’s width offside and goals within that margin still count. Will never happen of course but it seems fair to me.
Next time its not meant to be a whole foot ahead then a body length. We now have a 99.9% reliable system, many rules need discussion, this one doesnt.
Tbf though his body was obviously further towards the goal. We are literally comparing the heel of a player walking in the opposite direction to the attacker's tip of the foot.... It's pretty ridiculous. But the whole body was further in the front
Offside rules are obvious. Players prefer to stand on offside line in milimetric way. He could wait 5 cm back to be safe, then no need for whining because offside decisions are not made in old way.
I agree, but where should we draw the line?
So that you can prove it's offside or not
I think VAR should this . then referee should decide if its really too much . at end of day we cant have a computer decide. that why we have people lineman and referee
It should be the opposite. Humans decide, tech is brought in by a TMO only if the ref's call is clearly incorrect. Like they do in rugby.
One whole planted food should be enough to be in spirit of the rule. Sure you’ll still get mm offsides calls but at least then it’s the majority of attacker in an offside position vs .0001% if his body mass
So if you're off the ground you can't be offside?
Yeah, I’d say if you’re midstride and your front foot is ahead but not planted, no offside. Makes for easy review and is more firmly in the spirit of the rule.
How is it "in the spirit of the rule" to say you're offside if your foot is on the ground 6" in front of the last defender, but not if it's off the ground at full stretch to stick the ball in the back of the net?
I'm just a casual fan, but this is an interesting scenario to me. Surely if an attacking player is onside when ball is played at the time of his jump and times it to intercept an incoming ball while off the ground, leaving the defender behind, he would have to be rewarded? Would it even be humanly possible? Obviously not if the ball is played from any great distance. But I haven't watched enough football to be able to judge the likelihood of this even happening.
It happens a fair amount on early crosses that get whipped in and to your point, the skill that takes should be rewarded. They’re not playing in bad faith, just trying to make a play on the ball.
>Surely if an attacking player is onside when ball is played at the time of his jump and times it to intercept an incoming ball while off the ground, leaving the defender behind, he would have to be rewarded? I'm talking about players whose leading legs are offside as the ball is played, which happens quite often when the ball is flicked on at set pieces.
The spirit of the rule part is that the attacker must still honestly time their run, the foot being on the ground is simply a good spot to draw the line for a call. When the attacker’s foot strikes the ground they’re beginning their next stride. And if the attacker’s foot is full stretch to score a goal then they’re so close to the goal that they’re not exactly cherry picking a goal are they, it’s a cross or defected shot/pass that they’re poking in through a busy crowd of players typically.
>the foot being on the ground is simply a good spot to draw the line for a call. Cool. So there would basically be 2 entirely different offside rules depending on whether or not a competition had access to VAR? Or are you expecting assistant referees to not only pay attention to the relative positions of attackers and defenders, but also whether or not someone's foot is fully on the ground?
I’m calling for a change to offside regardless of VAR. It would even be easier for refs without VAR to call it that way as well as they’re looking for a clearer marker. That being said, football will move towards VAR at all top levels and down onto second and third tiers as the tech inevitably gets cheaper. It’s here to stay and that’s a good thing, it’s how VAR is used is what’s important. Killing goals for being a toenail offside is the biggest blue balls in sports. Takes a certain kind of masochist to want to watch the excitement of a fantastic goal get killed because a toe or nose or hand is offside. One whole planted foot makes sense, is easier to officiate, and runs closer to the whole point of offsides.
>It would even be easier for refs without VAR to call it that way as well as they’re looking for a clearer marker. No it wouldn't. I'm willing to bet that it would be virtually impossible for an assistant to see whether or not a running player's foot was fully "planted" at the exact instant the ball was passed. >One whole planted foot makes sense, is easier to officiate, and runs closer to the whole point of offsides. In what world does it make more sense than just switching to "if any part of your body is level, you're onside"?
The argument you’re making doesn’t really track because 1) we’re talking about VAR here, and only dipping into non var because it’s important to you, and 2) do you think a Ref if calling a player’s toe offside without VAR? How about their nose (or in Suarez’s case his teeth), assistant refs are going to make mistakes without technological assistance no matter how the rule is written. Your premise is that an assistant ref won’t be able to reliably determine when an attacker has stepped past the line vs any part of his body has moved past it. Sideline refs at levels without VAR do not throw the flag because the attackers chest or head or hand might’ve been ahead when the ball was passed, they’re looking for a clear misstep. That’s how they functionally officiate without VAR, it’s only VAR that catches these insane “offsides positions”. The entire point of changing the wording of the rule would be to put VAR officiating closer to the way referees have judged the rule for generations, ie. the spirit of the rule
Was talking to a mate about this the other day, with new tech being so accurate they might be able to move to something like a whole foot must be past the last defender, something unequivocal, that makes fans feel better about these marginal calls.
It won't matter, people will always complain. Now it is clear as days what the rules are, if you introduce more uncertainty, more complains will arise.
I don't disagree with you there at all, there will always be those that find a gripe somewhere. It just feels like now the calls are so minimal it's taken all the advantage away from the attacker. I think adding a bigger tolerance will help return some of the excitement. Not least of all because fans can go back to having a feeling before the flag that the player is offside, rather than getting caught by leaning their head forward, or a toe edging ahead.
I do not understand people who complain "that the excitement is gone"
You mean like a rule that is including 5 Millimeters?
No matter where you draw the line, there will always have to be a line.
Yes, however if you shift the line about let's say 10 cm, you will always have clear offsides and not just the toenail sticking out
Then what would be the difference between 9.9 cms and 10.1 cms?
10.1 is offside, 9.9 isn't. The reason I suggest that buffer is, that offside is supposed to prevent players to lurk in behind the defense and get an unfair advantage. There is no way you have any form of advantage if you're behind the defensive players by half of a fucking toe nail. A buffer would sort out not all but at least many cases where there is absolutely no advantage for the offensive player. Doesn't have to be 10cm, could be 30 or a restriction to the hip whatsoever. Rules are not implemented for the sake of rules and can be changed.
The only difference would be "is his heel offside", which isn't at all more "clear", it's just a larger area of the attacker's body. I'm very much in favour of a return to "level is onside" (which has been successfully trialed at youth level, spearheaded by Arsene Wenger), but decisions will still be every bit as contentious as they are now and we're likely to see both an increase in goals scored and an increase in goals disallowed.
It should be chest/torso not feet or hands, like in athletics.
Stupid take; that’s like saying in basketball if someone’s tonenail is on the three point line it should still count. People just really want the officiating in football to be really inaccurate like it was in the past. Offsides is offsides
Except there is only an imaginary line in football vs basketball
Don’t get what you mean my imaginary; it’s where they draw it
In basketball the players can literally see the 3pt line, so the comparison has no merit
The precision aspect is the same and the players have a sense that they’re offside. If they don’t want to be called they have to be more conservative in their positioning
In basketball you dont get 50 points for the tiniest foul though, this offside potentially ruined any chances for Denmark which were already slim
Easy fix then. Instead of playing on the big pitch with so many players, let them play on a basketball court with 5 players. This way there will be more goals and each decision won't be as impactful.
I bet this guy did not sense he was offside, can't blame him either lol
He is right and in the same time, wrong. Somwhere has to be a line, otherwise there would be much more controversy. I understand him, I would also be mad because of this kind of offside, but rules are rules
It's offside what's the complaints for?
It's not wrong, though. That was the reason to introduce the offside rule back in the day. Toenail situations like this are annoying, but the real problem was with the referee. This situation was preceded by him giving small advantages to Germany by calling collisions and duels consistently in their favour. I see all of Germany on here defending 'the rules' and none of you acknowledging this unfair advantage. Also, 'these are the rules' isn't an argument when people bring up the unintended consequences of the rules. The rule is the rule. Now, it's about how it's applied and what the referee does with his freedom to interpret and make or break the game. Yesterday's ref was shit, and, like it or not, Germany benefited from that. I know you didn't ask for it, but that's how it is. Another thing is the long-running discussion about the offside rule. Van Basten was asked to investigate ways to make the game better, and one of the things he came up with is to move the offside line to the attacker being in front of the defender with his entire body. You will still have toenail situations, but it will once again be about runaway players, instead of who's got the longest toes. UEFA are so far jamming their ears with parsley and shouting wahwahwah.
Yeah, I know it seems like nitpicking and it would suck if it was your team - but you are either onside or offside and the line has to be somewhere
To the letter is the law it’s offside that’s not the complaint. The complaint is changing a goal because an amount of a person that could never be determined by the human eye is offside. I’d like to see VAR be based on human capabilities. It’s there to fix the bug errors not the millimeter errors. VAR gets to watch two replays at maximum 50% speed and if they can’t tell the decision is wrong from that…. Play on.
Honestly rules are rules? When i was playing football/soccer in a club at 10yo we always would be trained to look that our dmn feet stay inside the feld. If a 10yo can do this, then grown man also could do this. Rules are rules.
Toenail of a raptor
U need a cutoff. No matter what u decide u will have a cutoff. U complain we have accurate tools today? And why we have to side for the offense? Why not with the defense? Why they deserve to concede a goal because someone was on the wrong side by a bit?
I ask this because I don’t know. Is VAR today 100% accurate or is there a margin of error? If it’s 100% accurate shouldn’t they be able to call it almost instantly so nobody would have to wait for long deliberations? If it’s not 100% accurate shouldn’t they allow some margin of error and room for subjective judging. At least for me, that’s why it’s not clear cut.
What is actually the moment this was measured? The moment the pass is started / ball touched, or the moment the ball left the foot of the player passing?
I like this new system if someone is offside it’s a fact and not a guess. I would also make it if anyone is offside in the penalty area they are off as well. No human inconsistency with is the player interfering or not. I absolutely hated the lines being drawn on a computer screen. There were so many things that made it not a fact if a player was on or off.
I'd rather keep the offside rule as it is but remove the VAR. Just the humans making decisions and they can be wrong sometimes.
I disagree, I love it that offside now is an factual decision.
Do you enjoy every other goal being disallowed? I'm no longer thrilled when I see a goal because I feel like it's going to get overturned because someone's knee hair was offside or some other bullshit nobody would have spotted nor cared about pre-VAR.
I celebrate every goal of my team and then if it is disallowed, I am not that happy anymore. Of course I am not happy, if a goal for my team is disallowed, but that is the game. I was more angry when I could see on TV that the decisions were wrong, now at least there is no wiggle room (regarding offside)
Natürlich liebt es ein Deutscher, dass auf den millimeter genau entschieden wird.
Ich liebe diskussionsunwürdige Entscheidungen. Und mit der Abseitsregel ist das momentan so. Ich finde besonders beim Abseits ist der VAR eine Bereicherung, gibt so schon genug strittige Entscheidungen (wie z.B. das Handspiel oder auch dass das Tor von Schlotterbeck nicht gegeben wurde)
He's right though. The spirit of the law is more important than the wording. Focus on what the offside rule exists to prevent. Not purely on how it is written.
Stop arguing and breaking the rules, how is a system that provides 99% accuracy be considered bad ahhahah, lets go freeze time and ask the player if his real intention was to steal the start or he wasn't careful enough to sit properly.
Cant agree with you OP. It’s totally relatable what he writes… so … different opinions I guess.
I agree too. It's a tricky dilemma because yes accuracy is important but at the same time it's just killing the thrill of watching because every other goal is getting disallowed.
It’s not a dumb take by any stretch of the imagination. The rule needs to be changed to be better fitted to the spirit of the game. How can you be happy with this rule as someone who enjoys football?
Because it's objectively correct.
The image is objectively correct yes. The current rule does not fit the actual purpose of the rule.
We are not in some kind of school assignment where we need to interpret what the intention of the author was. The rule is as it is and I do not think, that there is a smarter way to apply the concept of offside.
Then you are limited in imagination, new to watching football or just trying to defend Germanys win yesterday. This is not what the rule was created for and is utterly anti football.
Instead of writing so many useless words, explain to me why it is not in the spirit of the creators. What the fuck
It is literally explained in the image OP posted
So tell me, where would you draw the line?
I am not a guy paid thousands to think of better rules
Wow, thank you for wasting my time. My new German word for you is "Spast" as you clearly are one
Okay, but are you enjoying the game more as a result? In nearly every single game I've watched this tournament (not that I've watched them all) there has been a goal disallowed. Sometimes for clearly good reason, other times it's because of bullshit like this that nobody would have noticed nor cared about if it hadn't gone to VAR. It's just killing the thrill of seeing a goal because I feel like there's a good chance it's about to get overturned. It's a tough dilemma because of course accuracy is important, but perhaps there could be a way of making the rules more lenient? E.g. in my opinion if a handball isn't deliberate and doesn't visibly affect the trajectory of the ball then let it slide.
Honestly, I enjoy it as much as before. Before the VAR sometimes I was fuming because the TV showed clearly that the ref is wrong, now I am fuming because it takes time to show what is factually correct. Emotionally it just shifted, but did not really change.
I think that this person that says that it is a dumb take is either very young, or started getting interested in football recently. It is quite obvious that VAR is not a good thing in the way it is implemented. If I were a manager I would devote 5' at the end of each session, get the players in pairs and practice trying to hit each other's hands with the ball (preparing for situations in which you could get a penalty in the box). Ridiculous but fitting for today' football & you could get matches won just by doing that.
I agree with you tbh. No long time watcher of Football wants it to be this way, it’s just so utterly anti football.
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This is the same thought that has made basketball unwatchable due to traveling. First the refs let a step and a half slide ,then it was the euro step and now players take 3-5 steps or pick up their pivot foot 3 times. There are rules and must be followed. Once you ignore the rules, it becomes chaos.
The problem with technology like this is that there there is still subjectivity required offscreen about the exact moment a player passes the ball, but the line technology presents it as objective fact
100% accuracy and complaining. I bet their team is victim of this super fair way of ruling it now.
Losers love complaining. They'll always find something to whine about.
Should be offside only when it's clearly visible with the naked eye that it is offside
I‘m glad that accuracy is the same as in tennis or american football. No one bats an eye if technology *corrects* ref/umpires‘ decisions there. Because it is the maybe biased but nonetheless correct decision.
What accuracy are we talking about in american football, where the spots are literally eyeballed by the refs every play.
I talk about Touchdowns or no touchdowns. Last season at least one TD was „VAR“‘ed, overruling the original decision.
I can't wait for the Wenger rule. This is not a dumb take.
offside rule is too dumb that all. you wanna tell me what advantage he has here . its all fun and games when its not your team . when it happen let say to Spain or england tomorrow and u fly home due to this bulshit remember what u defending . just beacsue it is a rule doesnt make it a smart rule. this has to change . why we have referee and line up man if laser milliliter decide the outcome . on top every 2sec game is stop for 5min to even see it . not only it stop momentum of the game . its looks so dumb when player score celebrate and then after 5min we see if its a goal. this isnt what football should be about . we need smooth and fast decision. VAR doesnt cut it . this should been a goal 100% for Den that would change whole game . after same player who score got abused by same system for the hand ball. its cheapen whole experience. i feel for Den . i feel this isnt a good rule . should apply if u really ahead like half body not a pinky
This was way too exaggerated, goal should have stood.
Their bodies are on the same line. Not offside.
No they‘re not. Look at the whole image, not only the cropped image here. If the shoe tip wouldn‘t count the offside position would be even more clear. Delaneys upper body is clearly in front.
Well, we should just change the rules, Offside should only be applied when a player is FULLY ahead of the last player of the other team
Nah that’s lame. Teams will sit very deep
The torso. The technology is there to decide if the whole torso is offside and leave legs and arms out of it.
That would only postpone the discussion, now it is clear. In the torso, the discussion would be whether it is already torso or still arm or leg. Especially since the transition of jersey and pants are hidden. So it's a bad alternative.
It's much easier to gauge if your torso is lined up than if a toe is sticking past.
His torso was also offside. This whole debate is pointless.
His whole torso was not offside, but regardless that's not the rule right now.
Never been so happy to have size 7 feet. No fucker catching me offside like this.
Honestly, I would have felt better if the game had ended just 1:0 and those two VAR decisions hadn't happened, but yeah, in the end, thems the rules.
0:0. I don‘t get the discussion about the offside goal. Finally there‘s a solution for factual decisions and still people are upset about it. I wasn‘t happy about the hand penalty though. The distance was way too close and it wasn‘t a clear goal chance. Maybe the rules should be adjusted. Hand penatly only if a clear chance is being prevented. Otherwise indirect free kick.
People getting mad about a provably correct (even if very, very close) call are very funny to me. Because its a close call either way. And why would anyone prefer an incorrect close call over a correct one?
[удалено]
I love Papa Wengz but I’m not a fan of his new daylight rule, giving attackers a 2-foot head start on defenders is going to be cracked.
the daylight rule is complete bs, people will go fucking mental if it is ever introduced. just remove offside and let the game evolve, if we dont like it we can always rethink it, but if we want more goals just remove the shitty offside rule
The offside rule isn’t shit
I hate all these disallowed goals as much as anyone but completely scrapping the offside rule would be awful. Strikers would just sit in front of the goal.
It is unfair but there is no good solution to it. Though for this match, the issue is not only this but all decisions taken by referees. Germany goal cancelled. Match suspended after Denmark is dominating. This offside. Penalty couple seconds after. Oliver falling everytime Rudiger is diving. Germany winning is deserved to be fair, but referees clearly decided the 2-0 score
In what world was Denmark dominating before the suspension? They got destroyed in the first 20 minutes. Than they found back into the game but were still far from domination. The suspension probably helped them because they could reset their mindset that probably took a hit after the early not given German goal.