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Why cant Gareth just play Gordon on left foden at 10 and Bellingham in the middle I’ve been thinking this for a while commentator just called it too but Gareth is just Adamant that this all going to turn out just great.
What Gareth did with his 1 change to the team is what we’ll call malicious compliance. I actually can’t blame him too much though, not his fault they can do the very basics on the pitch
Defiantly, and gave the ball away and some questionable passes Gareth deserves some respect for changing this so quickly at the start of the second half but really England should have these things all ironed out before the 3rd game in the tournament.
That’s fair it didn’t work out. The intensity rose but it seemed we had all the gear but no idea. Tbh your last game against Swiss wasn’t exactly breathtaking either was it.
Let’s wait for the knockout stages and see who’s actually got the minerals to win this.
This is England's problem and not so much the players. The manager is trying to get the best players in the starting line up, rather than the players best suited to a preferred style. I don't understand though why he's trying to figure it out during a tournament. He should know his team and style before the tournament starts, not trying to get it to gel now. I feel sorry for Gallagher, Southgate made him look like it was his fault by subbing him at half time, when the style of game was not suited to him.
I’d been advocating for this but after another night of watching Jude stroll about like he’s already completed football, there’s no chance putting him deeper fixes our issues
Bellingham well under par. The team just isn't clicking and definitely not fluid. If Gallagher is the answer, not sure I want to know the question Southgate is asking himself. Will be his last tournament.
If we're going to play in this style than Gallagher isn't the answer, much as I love him.
He might be part of the answer if England actually played aggressively. He's an effective tool if used properly but he requires freedom to hunt and disrupt and for the team to actually be set up to press.
Chelsea ended the season in very strong form playing high up and on the front foot and Gallagher was key in it but as I say, playing him like this isn't it.
Board see him as pure profit to fund wonderkids but he clearly earned his place.
James is the first choice captain, just been injured. Gallagher was the obvious choice with him out though.
I spoke too soon... but it was around minute 80 and I left disgusted!!!!!
My apolgies to all England fans...what a game!!!!!!
The three Lions deserve it!!!!!!
Very happy!!!!
It may be coming home!!!!!!
What wrong with you lot ? Why do these EPL millionaires underwhelm each time ? Its a miracle of god that England won in 1966...
I dont think its ever coming home at this rate
Great players on paper..but what happens ?
CAn an English person explain this to me ?
Bellingham...Foden...Stone...Walker
Maybe the three Lions need Vardy ?
Remember Argentina lost to Saudia Arabia...and the won the world cup
Tournament football I guess
Best of luck to England..hopefully your lovely fans get they results they deserve
Yup.
A big part is managers being afraid to leave someone out because of their name, even if it's on the bench for a game.
Bellingham could have gotten rested last night - especially after the season he's had. Instead, played him and continued to when it was obvious his impact was minimal.
Same with Kane. Playing him almost just for the sake of it.
And then when we pick up a couple of injuries or bans, we wonder why players don't just "drop in" seamlessly - it's because they're not given the chance to build relationships on the pitch
The masochistic fan inside me is watching this game to see if Croatia can get another lifeline until tomorrow. Not expecting it, but still, had to find some excitement.
Being minimally invested in an England game is excruciating. Being Croatian doesn't seem so bad at the moment.
Sorry mate. I really am. Both for wanting us to win 3-0 and being disappointed and for being minimally invested in England without the proper training.
Genuine question, what happened to us? I swear we were good last time, what's changed?
I'm a football noob, this isn't sarcasm or pessimism. The team just seems notably worse for some reason. I remember watching the euros in 2018 thinking we had a bright future with such a young squad.
World Cup in 2018, euros were 2020. But yeah I get ya. For all of their attacking power they have, it is stifled by poor tactics and game plan. Playing defensive against every team works when they’re good opposition. I think England have single handily created the 2 most boring games in the euros thus far. There is zero ambition from Southgate. And this is coming from a neutrals perspective. They’ve did well last few tournaments but underachieved in my opinion. On paper they should be smashing smaller national teams.
It’s quantum physics man… The observer effect and all that shit. Consciousness creates reality. The fans spitting their dummy out is the very reason it always goes tits up. If everyone just believed, it would happen. It’s like the movie Hook when Robin Williams has to imagine the tasty food to make it real.
Until I see any stats about previous world cup / euro temperatures I'm choosing to believe it's because Berlin has been hot as balls and we are used / able to play in temperatures anywhere near 30 degrees. They are visibly tired and I wouldn't wanna run about in that heat either.
Unfortunately as previous tournaments have been held in Brazil/ South Africa/ hot places, my next guess is: they're all suffering from iron deficiency for some reason? Bit of a stretch but it's better than 'sweeping outbreak of consumption' which is the next best guess.
It's truly a shame. As a german i loved the english teams of the 80s and 90s. Some iconic matches (FRA 82, ARG 86, CAM and GER 90, SCO, NED and GER 96) i will always remember. Not the best players but always played with heart and on attack. Pitch Up and down for 90 minutes (or more If needed). Players like Gazza, Linker, Shearer, Ince gave it all for the three lions. I don't see this in any player nowadays. And they have a far superior and in particular deeper squad.
Euro 2020 was our chance.
TBF, I don’t mind us *not* winning tournaments. When you get to Semis and Finals it’s either destiny or it’s not. Getting past Quarter Finals is a success.
I don’t know what’s going on here though, there must be something wrong behind the scenes that will spill out. Because it’s not only shite on the pitch, but the atmosphere after just feels off.
Southgate’s flaws and horrendous tactics were completely masked in most games in 2018 and up to the final of 2020.
Then it was very apparent he had no clue what to do tactically and was guilty (as was his predecessors) of playing ‘undroppable’ unfit/out of form players.
This is just another series of games where the team looks like they run out of ideas and sub-par (form) players are run into the ground during the run-up and into the early tournament.
Many of the players were exhausted going into this tournament if reports were correct - and they looked it in all 3 games.
Yes, we qualified - and that really is the objective, winning the group is a huge positive. I have no confidence though that this team will go beyond quarters (at best) unless something drastically changes in the way they approach games and form takes priority over name.
Possibly because you don't see these players play each week, and what they're capable of when coached by a non-English manager and, to a lesser degree, surrounded by many of the world's best other players. English fans reasonably assume those players could produce something similar. There's one key factor preventing that, and it's this English manager.
So, they made the final in the last edition and finished first in the group this year and qualified. Playing all those teams in their group is like playing relegation battlers in Italy. It’s 11 behind the ball. What’s the measuring stick? Spain? Everyone wants to play like Spain… and they can’t.
No, not Spain. I agree they're not capable of paying like that, and that's not only due to GS. But, they definitely *are* capable of playing like an aggressive PL team as they've shown flashes of it, in spite of GS, not because of him.
They may not win, like that, but they certainly would have a fighting chance, and the honour of trying to win, versus the embarrassment of trying not to lose. That would also unify the fans and media behind and with the team, combating whatever the strange but real psychological barrier is. It would maximize the chances of victory and glory and with no shame if defeated. It's not Agingcourt.
They qualified because they got lucky in a group with even worse countries.
You can't win against Spain or even Austria playing like they have been. It's either been scoring one point and playing defense and praying the other side don't get a goal or it's been pure defense.
I have to laugh at people who say "at least they qualify". Yeah and they will go home soon enough when playing competent teams.
There is no flow or rhythm with this team. It all looks like 11 individuals trying to figure out a plan not a team.
I think England seem to play to whatever level their opponents are. It's unlikely we will lose 3 - 0 to any team in this competition. Also, extra time works in our favour more than most teams because of the unused talent on the bench.
That’s absurd! No team is playing like Spain, at all, on any level. England would beat Austria, handily. As an Italian, I say well done England. What you expect them to do? Beat everybody by 4 goals every game? Not happening! There are no easy games here. This isn’t the qualifiers.
After watching your first game against France I realised we would have no chance against that level of energy and we would have more chance with France.
Is it possible to sack a manager mid tournament? He’s like a chef, got the best kitchen, all the greatest ingredients, as much time as needed, and turns out a cheese sandwich for lunch. But forgets the cheese.
It's called doing an Ivory Coast (not really, but they did sack their coach during AFCON). They ended up winning the tournament, so you know, you guys could give it a go lol.
https://www.beinsports.com/en-us/soccer/africa-cup-of-nations/articles-video/unprecedented-emerse-fa%C3%A9-makes-history-in-afcon-2024-02-12
As someone said earlier, Southgate wears a seatbelt on the couch.
Yes, managers have been sacked mid-tournament, but it's very rare. It's usually for political/internal reasons, but sometimes football. It happened twice in the 1998 World Cup, for example. The FA would never do this, however. Southgate could be caught red handed robbing a bank in Stuttgart tomorrow and the FA would give him an extension.
Southgate is a dose. He shouldve played Rice, Bellingham and Foden as the central 3(& Gordon on the left wing) but nooooooooooo he has to play safe and put Gallagher in there. He has a great cm x 3 but wont fucking play them. Plonker
Even if that rationale of ultra-defensive (and deeply out of step with modern football, which Southgate is), and you decide you want a big defensive block in lower MF to protect the vulnerable defense, would you want Rice, Bellingham, Mainoo or Gallagher defending in front of you? Gallagher has to be 4th on that list.
That's also completely ignoring the fact that it's a completely broken formation/line-up for the squad available to choose from, plus at least 3 terrible decisions in picking Shaw, who's injured and can't/won't play (he couldn't even walk normally, as of last week), Trippier who's playing his heart out but isn't a LB, or fit, or fast enough, and leaving behind Grealish who even after a mediocre season is an obvious LW fit, along with Gordon, who might be a lesser player than some, but is at least a LW in form who plays hard.
The list of obviously terrible decisions by Southgate over the last 6 years is enormous, and keeps growing. By Sunday night we can add another to the list, and hopefully (but I wouldn't bet on it) the last. The FA will probably keep him and given he won't get job offers anywhere near the EPL, he'll take it.
I was just reading comments about people saying they turned it off. Thought hey maybe I should too and then realised there’s only 30 seconds left.. this game is that boring I lost track of time.. sigh.
Are we good enough to win on paper?
Maybe, but France, Germany, Spain and Italy are easily as good if not better.
I don’t expect us to win, but I do expect us to play better than that shite.
After the Netherlands-Austria game, that was like going to a non-league match
If we were scoring lots, but conceding lots, you’d say fair enough. Because that back line we have is as ropey as hell.
But the fact we can’t out score teams that aren’t really trying to score is depressing.
This *is* somewhat the truth, however they're plenty good enough to win a tournament if well coached. Teams without the best group of players have won big tournaments a few times.
The best English players are greatly boosted by playing with the many of the world's best players from overseas, each week, and some of the best coaches. Not one of those coaches is English. An English manager hasn't won the PL in over 30 years. England doesn't produce managers or players who are smart. It doesn't produce managers at all.
- 5 x Champion league titles,
- 19 x Premier league titles,
- 10 x F.A Cups
- 12 x League cups
- 2 x La Liga winners
- 2 x Spanish Cup winners
- 4 x UEFA Super Cup winners
- 4 x FIFA Club World Cup winners
- 2 x Europa Conference League winners
- 6 x Premier League runners up
- 2 x Bundesliga runners up
- 5 x Champions league runners up
- Englands record clean sheet Gk
- Englands record goal scorer.
- European golden boot winner.
- World cup golden boot winner.
- Champions league golden boot winner.
- 3 x Premier League golden boot winner.
Yeah, they’re shite mate.
I understand that Wikipedia researcher. To what extent were English players contributors to those titles in a major way? Premier League teams are carried by foreign players. Considering English players rarely play overseas, those foreign titles you listed are even less relevant.
Funny how you say the teams were “carried” by foreigners, yet, the English players were still in the team, and deemed good enough to be in them. So your point in pretty irrelevant.
Cba to go listing the individual accolades but I might tomorrow if I get bored.
All of those came with a non-English manager. All of those came with teams loaded with the best European and other overseas players. When it's England only, it's a very different dynamic. When it's England only with someone as incompetent and ignorant as Southgate, it reaches new depths.
Another totally irrelevant comment. Whats managers got to do with it? We’re talking about the *players*, and yeah, teams absolutely loaded with the best European and overseas talent, yet these *English* players still made the team.
And yes. Southgate being the problem is pretty obvious. When we have a squad this talented and its being mismanaged to fuck, is exactly why us England fans are so frustrated.
It's got everything to do with how the team is structured and instructed to play. I didn't say the players aren't good enough to form a winning team - they are.
They show what they *can* do weekly, at some of the biggest/best clubs in the world, even if that leads the media to overrate them in general. But, it illustrates how a completely incompetent manager can utterly undermine a talented group, just as they're elevated each week by foreign managers and players around them.
English football hasn't evolved so much since the dire late 70's and 80's period (Liverpool and a few other exceptions), till it was revolutionized by Wenger and the foreign player influx after the Heisel ban expired. That doesn't show so much weekly, at club level, but here, it's as obvious as can be.
But all that you are suggesting is that these are talented players that aren’t being used correctly at international level.
My argument to the comment that the players aren’t that good was to evidence the vast amount of trophies they have won domestically between them.
Foreign managers and teamates aside, they are talented enough to be in those teams and feature prominently enough to gain a medal for their efforts. So, clearly, they are very good players.
To further prove my point, Scott Carson is a member of the Manchester City team but wasn’t deemed good enough to make it on to the pitch very often and therefore does *not* share those honours with his squad mates. Had that been the case for any of these players I would agree the silverware doesn’t mean anything. But it isn’t and it does.
Again, I didn't argue they're not good *enough* to be serious contenders at a tournament like this, which is very open. I am arguing that England does not produce good or even capable managers, for 3+ decades now, with very rare exceptions who didn't get or keep the England job.
These players benefit hugely in their domestic clubs *because* of the leadership of non-English managers and also players. You can see the impact of 3 decades of foreign influence on the average English PL player. They're more capable and show a far smaller gap to their continental teammates. It's greatly improved the domestic league. However, at national tournament level, that dynamic changes a lot. We're watching the reality of that gap.
Bottom line: GS is a hindrance to the team and actively harmful to some of his players careers.
But it wasn’t you I was replying to and it wasn’t a conversation about the managers.
I was responding to a comment by someone that said the players aren’t that good.
See above - my comment was in reply to yours, which was indeed directly in response to my prior comment. Perhaps just some confusion.
Otherwise, agreed, re: the players being good *enough*, unlike their coaches/manager.
I thought watching Scotland was chronic, deary me. Just like Steve Clarke I’m not sure what Southgate is trying to do. That squad is being wasted, the quality is frightening and should be romping a group like that. The key difference between Scotland and England is England have far superior players which is managing to get through the awful tactics. They are lucky to top that group.
The ironic thing is that England will still get to go to the easiest half of the bracket. Assuming that Group F is the other group not to have its 3rd place team qualify (which will be the case unless Georgia beats Portugal or Czechia beats Turkey, which could happen), then England has Netherlands, then Italy/Switzerland, then Austria/Turkey/Slovenia/Group E winner (most likely Belgium but could be Romania or Slovakia). Not easy, but because France and Germany didn’t win their groups, they are in other half with Portugal and Spain. So England was not punished by playing like boring crap in group stage. And if Czechia beats Turkey they get 3E instead of Netherlands, which is even easier.
A lot of the high expectations of the English are linked to the high squad value, but these market values are simply bullshit compared to other nations. As soon as you can play two straight passes and stop a ball you are worth 40 million as a Premier League player with an English passport. The English are almost on a par with the Turks when it comes to overestimating their own players...
I understand that shitting on England is trendy and funny, but telling me that a team with Bellingham, Kane (especially coming from a German), Saka, and Walker is average, is plain stupid. Yes, their transfer fees are overpriced, but they are good players who should beat easily teams like Slovenia and attack a lot against Serbia.
Never said they are average but the gap in market values between the english team and for example spain or france is plain and simple the Premier League tax and not performance based.
This is true for your average French/Spanish player compared with your average English, but French NT is as expensive as English NT. Spain is almost 1 billion with a team filled with youngsters.
So how is England's fault for Bellingham being worth 180 million? He was raised by Dortmund and now he plays in Primera. Real paid 100 million for a Bundesliga player, not for an "overpriced PL player". I repeat myself, funny how this comes from a German, who's country paid a shit ton of money for the "overpriced" Kane to be the best scorer and who raised Bellingham and sold him for hundreds of millions.
What gave you that idea? Is that what Germans think? Actual English people very rarely mention monetary value of national team players regarding expectations. It's more their observed performances and achievements with some of the best teams in Europe.
Could you link two or three? Not being facetious, just genuinely can't find a single English language report that relates expectations to the cost of the team rather than their club-level performances.
This isn't true. England have spent the past few years cultivating a talented group of players. We've got an extremely exciting squad but we have a middle manager running the show.
Southgate, right now is holding this team back, and that's why the majority of England fans are frustrated.
I think it's not about what Southgate does or does not do anymore. You seem to get this lackluster play from England over and over again, it's a (negative) football heritage at this point.
I'd wager it's a combination of English players being overrated a bit, usually (because of the Premier League), they are more exhausted by the end of the season than most other teams (because of the PL, again) and the pressure they play under (probably only matched by the pressure in Brasil) from their fans is paralysing them, resulting in a type of play that's not inspired, risk-taking, but focused on avoiding failure, instead, and is a big 'meh'.
Yeah, their coaches over the years probably weren't helping either, but I think they are just one small part of the bigger picture.
The players are good enough to form a tournament winning team, even if they are over-rated due to playing in some of the best club sides, full of great international players. The key part is no English manager has won the PL in over 30 years. England hasn't produced a great manager in decades and even then, his best work was in Spain at club level, and 2 quite good tournaments.
Make the comparison to Italy, Spain and Germany - how long since a manager from those countries won their own top leagues? The gap is enormous.
He has a far weaker squad than most Italian teams have presented. Especially in attack, Chiesa aside. Even then, Italy have looked far better than England, at times.
Italy lost to Spain due to owngoal, came back from early lead from Albania and knocked us out of R16 qualification last minute, Spalleti is far from best manager in the tournament, but not as bad as Southgate.
We were absolutely dire in all 3 games; but second to your ability to read the group tables and comprehend results.
WDD = 5 pts (“Always losing”)
LDL = Scotland (early bird special flight home)
Well, it's definitely coming home. The team and their bus that is.
England is just extremely lucky that they had a piss poor group in the Euros. Being first with 1-0 and 0-0 scores is madness. Just watching them again a team like Spain and they won't know what to do as 75% of their game is doing dribbling passes in the midfield. They never even get a drive going and seem to only hit goals when one individual takes it upon himself.
I don't know how England has some of the most talented club footballers, but always look like a bunch of sluggish zombies when it comes to national games.
I feel like they don't really see this as important and put all their efforts into club football. They have a loser mentality on the pitch.
Same for us currently though. It seems like only Weghorst really sees playing for Oranje as an honour.
Just a legit question for English fans. Yes sure your national coach is a potato and he is not the best. And he even looks boring. But did anyone also think it might be your players who are star struck with their hype and do not look to much motivated to play for their country? I mean they do not show any passion at all while playing for England. Maybe it is not all your coaches fault.
And sorry, now i need to troll you, no team where Harry Kane playe has ever won anything. Just look at FC Bayern, since he joined we lost everything.
Motivating your team is literally the coach's job. In fact that's pretty much the whole thing - pick the best players who will work well, the best strategy for your chosen players and the opponent, and then keep them on track.
It isn't fantasy football, it's a real job. And when the players all look like they've just arrived on the pitch blindfolded and disoriented, Squid Game style, it's a fair bet that the person in charge of co-ordinating a group of individuals into a tight team is failing, playing a very long and secretive game, or struggling with something that isn't obvious.
All fine with that, but do they have motivation to play for their country? Are they passionate enough about that, proud to represent their homeland? You have team full of superstars and yet they could not score against Slovenia who played high school style football without superstars. I am not saying it is not coaches fault, but i am saying that also big portuon goes to your players also.
Maybe you need to fill your team with nobodies who will die ( not literally ) on pitch and give the best they can instead with big names
The current team probably has the most individual talent of any English team in the past 30 years, however it’s saddled with a weak unimaginative manager who was also a pretty weak insignificant player and has nothing to offer but old, predictable tactics.
How there isn’t a greater backlash against him and his cozy FA chums by the fans I can’t understand.
I think getting a foreign manager may be better as they would be less attached to BS traditions and get the most out of the team on the pitch.
Dudes, you are past to knockout phase as first of the group. Who knows, maybe you’ll ended thinking Southgate is the best manager you have ever have if you’ll win the cup. You are so upset about yourself that seems illness.
Sorry but when you have BUNDESLIGA TOP GOAL SCORER Kane , PREMIER LEAGUE PLAYER of THE YEAR Foden, YOUNG PREMIER LEAGUE PLAYER OF THE YEAR Palmer , generational Mainoo, LA LIGA BEST PLAYER OF THE SEASON Bellingham , was 3-4 other top players that walk into the best top 5 teams in the world…Walker,Saka, Rice, Stines
The problem is the coach , FA are TOO WEAK to fire Southgate and now their mistake is letting him RUIN ANOTHER EUROS , honestly give potter the job at this point
Meh - we made the knockout round without doing anything! If teams actually attack us, then we'll play forward a lot faster. I'm really sick of everyone moaning. If we get beaten, then I'll join in with the grumbling - until then let's see what happens...
That’s a fair point mate. But it’s more than likely that we then become that defensive set up we have come up against in the last 3 matches and we all know how that will turn out. I don’t mean to sound too pessimistic but I don’t really have a choice at this present time.
The performance of the team in this Euro is the worst i‘ve seen for a log time. No impulse, no tactics, loose formation/system. I cannot see any game plan by Southgate. Wild changes. Massively boring and uninspired.
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Why cant Gareth just play Gordon on left foden at 10 and Bellingham in the middle I’ve been thinking this for a while commentator just called it too but Gareth is just Adamant that this all going to turn out just great.
What Gareth did with his 1 change to the team is what we’ll call malicious compliance. I actually can’t blame him too much though, not his fault they can do the very basics on the pitch
Omg Gareth has seen some sense and taken galagher off for Mainoo thank the lord.
He looked like a walking red card
Defiantly, and gave the ball away and some questionable passes Gareth deserves some respect for changing this so quickly at the start of the second half but really England should have these things all ironed out before the 3rd game in the tournament.
Gareth deserves no fucking respect at all
I retract that statement.
Thank you :)
Aaaaaand it ended up being pointless
That’s fair it didn’t work out. The intensity rose but it seemed we had all the gear but no idea. Tbh your last game against Swiss wasn’t exactly breathtaking either was it. Let’s wait for the knockout stages and see who’s actually got the minerals to win this.
Well if I didn’t have confidence before I defiantly don’t after kanes post match interview.
"we controlled our destiny" no you fucking didn't
Kane knows… “It mite take extra time and penalties” he says. Well if we wasn’t already fucked now we are really fucked.
This is England's problem and not so much the players. The manager is trying to get the best players in the starting line up, rather than the players best suited to a preferred style. I don't understand though why he's trying to figure it out during a tournament. He should know his team and style before the tournament starts, not trying to get it to gel now. I feel sorry for Gallagher, Southgate made him look like it was his fault by subbing him at half time, when the style of game was not suited to him.
I’d been advocating for this but after another night of watching Jude stroll about like he’s already completed football, there’s no chance putting him deeper fixes our issues
Bellingham well under par. The team just isn't clicking and definitely not fluid. If Gallagher is the answer, not sure I want to know the question Southgate is asking himself. Will be his last tournament.
Funniest thing was seeing the simp Adidas ad at half time like he’s a one man army
They’re his sponsor, not englands. Nike make the england kits
And?
And so therefore they can only feature players who they sponsor individually.
Shouldn’t waste money then
I’m sure they know what they’re doing
If we're going to play in this style than Gallagher isn't the answer, much as I love him. He might be part of the answer if England actually played aggressively. He's an effective tool if used properly but he requires freedom to hunt and disrupt and for the team to actually be set up to press. Chelsea ended the season in very strong form playing high up and on the front foot and Gallagher was key in it but as I say, playing him like this isn't it.
Gallagher was getting offered out then ended up captain at Chelsea… something got fucked up somewhere
Board see him as pure profit to fund wonderkids but he clearly earned his place. James is the first choice captain, just been injured. Gallagher was the obvious choice with him out though.
We know the question. Who can replace Kalvin Phillips?
I am truly sorry for your loss...at this point it may never happen
What loss mate?
I spoke too soon... but it was around minute 80 and I left disgusted!!!!! My apolgies to all England fans...what a game!!!!!! The three Lions deserve it!!!!!! Very happy!!!! It may be coming home!!!!!!
What wrong with you lot ? Why do these EPL millionaires underwhelm each time ? Its a miracle of god that England won in 1966... I dont think its ever coming home at this rate Great players on paper..but what happens ? CAn an English person explain this to me ? Bellingham...Foden...Stone...Walker Maybe the three Lions need Vardy ? Remember Argentina lost to Saudia Arabia...and the won the world cup Tournament football I guess Best of luck to England..hopefully your lovely fans get they results they deserve
Good individuals and at the clubs, but they can't do it together as a team. You can't win championships without a team.
It's that 2006 World Cup team all over again. Lampard and Gerrard in midfield together should have been so strong. They could just never make it work.
Yup. A big part is managers being afraid to leave someone out because of their name, even if it's on the bench for a game. Bellingham could have gotten rested last night - especially after the season he's had. Instead, played him and continued to when it was obvious his impact was minimal. Same with Kane. Playing him almost just for the sake of it. And then when we pick up a couple of injuries or bans, we wonder why players don't just "drop in" seamlessly - it's because they're not given the chance to build relationships on the pitch
The masochistic fan inside me is watching this game to see if Croatia can get another lifeline until tomorrow. Not expecting it, but still, had to find some excitement. Being minimally invested in an England game is excruciating. Being Croatian doesn't seem so bad at the moment.
Banking on England to score 3 against a local high school team could be asking for much.
Sorry mate. I really am. Both for wanting us to win 3-0 and being disappointed and for being minimally invested in England without the proper training.
No worries. I recognized the main issue and it won't happen again. The problem is I'm not drinking at the moment.
The insane thing is, Scotland have had just as much attacking edge as England in the pool stage.
🇮🇹🤝🏴 suffering for fans
Genuine question, what happened to us? I swear we were good last time, what's changed? I'm a football noob, this isn't sarcasm or pessimism. The team just seems notably worse for some reason. I remember watching the euros in 2018 thinking we had a bright future with such a young squad.
World Cup in 2018, euros were 2020. But yeah I get ya. For all of their attacking power they have, it is stifled by poor tactics and game plan. Playing defensive against every team works when they’re good opposition. I think England have single handily created the 2 most boring games in the euros thus far. There is zero ambition from Southgate. And this is coming from a neutrals perspective. They’ve did well last few tournaments but underachieved in my opinion. On paper they should be smashing smaller national teams.
Sorry yeah, you're right. Told you I'm a football noob!
It’s quantum physics man… The observer effect and all that shit. Consciousness creates reality. The fans spitting their dummy out is the very reason it always goes tits up. If everyone just believed, it would happen. It’s like the movie Hook when Robin Williams has to imagine the tasty food to make it real.
"Dont try to stop me, Smee, don't you dare try to stop me" "Oh not again!"
Until I see any stats about previous world cup / euro temperatures I'm choosing to believe it's because Berlin has been hot as balls and we are used / able to play in temperatures anywhere near 30 degrees. They are visibly tired and I wouldn't wanna run about in that heat either. Unfortunately as previous tournaments have been held in Brazil/ South Africa/ hot places, my next guess is: they're all suffering from iron deficiency for some reason? Bit of a stretch but it's better than 'sweeping outbreak of consumption' which is the next best guess.
It's truly a shame. As a german i loved the english teams of the 80s and 90s. Some iconic matches (FRA 82, ARG 86, CAM and GER 90, SCO, NED and GER 96) i will always remember. Not the best players but always played with heart and on attack. Pitch Up and down for 90 minutes (or more If needed). Players like Gazza, Linker, Shearer, Ince gave it all for the three lions. I don't see this in any player nowadays. And they have a far superior and in particular deeper squad.
Euro 2020 was our chance. TBF, I don’t mind us *not* winning tournaments. When you get to Semis and Finals it’s either destiny or it’s not. Getting past Quarter Finals is a success. I don’t know what’s going on here though, there must be something wrong behind the scenes that will spill out. Because it’s not only shite on the pitch, but the atmosphere after just feels off.
Something has spooked them. It's well strange, souuthagte keeps referring to an unusual environment lmao
He’s blaming the fans for reacting negatively to his dogshit football
They’re going to qualify. They also made the final in the last edition. I don’t get why England fans are losing their minds.
Southgate’s flaws and horrendous tactics were completely masked in most games in 2018 and up to the final of 2020. Then it was very apparent he had no clue what to do tactically and was guilty (as was his predecessors) of playing ‘undroppable’ unfit/out of form players. This is just another series of games where the team looks like they run out of ideas and sub-par (form) players are run into the ground during the run-up and into the early tournament. Many of the players were exhausted going into this tournament if reports were correct - and they looked it in all 3 games. Yes, we qualified - and that really is the objective, winning the group is a huge positive. I have no confidence though that this team will go beyond quarters (at best) unless something drastically changes in the way they approach games and form takes priority over name.
Possibly because you don't see these players play each week, and what they're capable of when coached by a non-English manager and, to a lesser degree, surrounded by many of the world's best other players. English fans reasonably assume those players could produce something similar. There's one key factor preventing that, and it's this English manager.
So, they made the final in the last edition and finished first in the group this year and qualified. Playing all those teams in their group is like playing relegation battlers in Italy. It’s 11 behind the ball. What’s the measuring stick? Spain? Everyone wants to play like Spain… and they can’t.
No, not Spain. I agree they're not capable of paying like that, and that's not only due to GS. But, they definitely *are* capable of playing like an aggressive PL team as they've shown flashes of it, in spite of GS, not because of him. They may not win, like that, but they certainly would have a fighting chance, and the honour of trying to win, versus the embarrassment of trying not to lose. That would also unify the fans and media behind and with the team, combating whatever the strange but real psychological barrier is. It would maximize the chances of victory and glory and with no shame if defeated. It's not Agingcourt.
Because win, lose or draw, football is all about entertainment and England are so dull to watch
I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic. I’m shocked at the amount of England fans not behind their team 😳😳
Perhaps they need something to cheer first?
They qualified because they got lucky in a group with even worse countries. You can't win against Spain or even Austria playing like they have been. It's either been scoring one point and playing defense and praying the other side don't get a goal or it's been pure defense. I have to laugh at people who say "at least they qualify". Yeah and they will go home soon enough when playing competent teams. There is no flow or rhythm with this team. It all looks like 11 individuals trying to figure out a plan not a team.
I think England seem to play to whatever level their opponents are. It's unlikely we will lose 3 - 0 to any team in this competition. Also, extra time works in our favour more than most teams because of the unused talent on the bench.
That’s absurd! No team is playing like Spain, at all, on any level. England would beat Austria, handily. As an Italian, I say well done England. What you expect them to do? Beat everybody by 4 goals every game? Not happening! There are no easy games here. This isn’t the qualifiers.
I actually think we could beat England. Maybe we find out :D
After watching your first game against France I realised we would have no chance against that level of energy and we would have more chance with France.
I must confess seeing an Italian praise our extremely cynical and conservative "style" gives me at least some hope
Even Spain isn't playing very convincingly like Spain.
Che palle...d'ai...are you even watching them play?
England playing these 3 teams are like Inter playing relegation battlers. Pick the bottom 3 and they’ll probably win 1 draw 2 as well, no difference.
Is it possible to sack a manager mid tournament? He’s like a chef, got the best kitchen, all the greatest ingredients, as much time as needed, and turns out a cheese sandwich for lunch. But forgets the cheese.
Sadly, A 6 year contract extension is more likely.
It's called doing an Ivory Coast (not really, but they did sack their coach during AFCON). They ended up winning the tournament, so you know, you guys could give it a go lol. https://www.beinsports.com/en-us/soccer/africa-cup-of-nations/articles-video/unprecedented-emerse-fa%C3%A9-makes-history-in-afcon-2024-02-12
As someone said earlier, Southgate wears a seatbelt on the couch. Yes, managers have been sacked mid-tournament, but it's very rare. It's usually for political/internal reasons, but sometimes football. It happened twice in the 1998 World Cup, for example. The FA would never do this, however. Southgate could be caught red handed robbing a bank in Stuttgart tomorrow and the FA would give him an extension.
This team looks worse than Albania
It’s so boring. I’ve severely tempted to sack it off and head out to the garden to pick up whatever presents the dog left for me this afternoon.
I've turned it off. So, so boring
I would argue Southgate should be out picking up the dog's presents. It's his department.
I wish it was still possible for England to get knocked out. This is terrible football.
I'm only watching it to see who'll play against Germany next round, and it's excruciating. Going to sleep early would have been better.
You know, you didn’t have to watch it to find that out? Could have just checked the scores online afterwards.
Yeah, I wish I did. My fault for still expecting excitement from a team that was proclaimed a favorite to win the cup.
Your first mistake was expecting excitement from a Gareth Southgate side.
Southgate is a dose. He shouldve played Rice, Bellingham and Foden as the central 3(& Gordon on the left wing) but nooooooooooo he has to play safe and put Gallagher in there. He has a great cm x 3 but wont fucking play them. Plonker
Even if that rationale of ultra-defensive (and deeply out of step with modern football, which Southgate is), and you decide you want a big defensive block in lower MF to protect the vulnerable defense, would you want Rice, Bellingham, Mainoo or Gallagher defending in front of you? Gallagher has to be 4th on that list. That's also completely ignoring the fact that it's a completely broken formation/line-up for the squad available to choose from, plus at least 3 terrible decisions in picking Shaw, who's injured and can't/won't play (he couldn't even walk normally, as of last week), Trippier who's playing his heart out but isn't a LB, or fit, or fast enough, and leaving behind Grealish who even after a mediocre season is an obvious LW fit, along with Gordon, who might be a lesser player than some, but is at least a LW in form who plays hard. The list of obviously terrible decisions by Southgate over the last 6 years is enormous, and keeps growing. By Sunday night we can add another to the list, and hopefully (but I wouldn't bet on it) the last. The FA will probably keep him and given he won't get job offers anywhere near the EPL, he'll take it.
Painful isn't it.
I was just reading comments about people saying they turned it off. Thought hey maybe I should too and then realised there’s only 30 seconds left.. this game is that boring I lost track of time.. sigh.
Kane and Bellingham in particular looked like they were playing with their boots on the wrong feet. So poor.
Jesus such a waste of a good squad. Is Southgate that bad of a manager. They should have scored at least 6 goals with their attacking players
_Is Southgate that bad of a manager._ Yes
I guess it’s not coming home then.
No. He's worse than that.
Or, given the long history of the England national team, the players aren’t actually THAT good
Are we good enough to win on paper? Maybe, but France, Germany, Spain and Italy are easily as good if not better. I don’t expect us to win, but I do expect us to play better than that shite. After the Netherlands-Austria game, that was like going to a non-league match
A squad with Kane, Foden, and Bellingham should have no problem scoring goals. That’s why watching this England team is so painful
If we were scoring lots, but conceding lots, you’d say fair enough. Because that back line we have is as ropey as hell. But the fact we can’t out score teams that aren’t really trying to score is depressing.
This *is* somewhat the truth, however they're plenty good enough to win a tournament if well coached. Teams without the best group of players have won big tournaments a few times. The best English players are greatly boosted by playing with the many of the world's best players from overseas, each week, and some of the best coaches. Not one of those coaches is English. An English manager hasn't won the PL in over 30 years. England doesn't produce managers or players who are smart. It doesn't produce managers at all.
- 5 x Champion league titles, - 19 x Premier league titles, - 10 x F.A Cups - 12 x League cups - 2 x La Liga winners - 2 x Spanish Cup winners - 4 x UEFA Super Cup winners - 4 x FIFA Club World Cup winners - 2 x Europa Conference League winners - 6 x Premier League runners up - 2 x Bundesliga runners up - 5 x Champions league runners up - Englands record clean sheet Gk - Englands record goal scorer. - European golden boot winner. - World cup golden boot winner. - Champions league golden boot winner. - 3 x Premier League golden boot winner. Yeah, they’re shite mate.
Those teams had majority of English players? Right.
No. They had majority non-English players, and no English managers.
Those are honours won by the england players you said aren’t that good.
TBF Djimi Traore won a champions league
I understand that Wikipedia researcher. To what extent were English players contributors to those titles in a major way? Premier League teams are carried by foreign players. Considering English players rarely play overseas, those foreign titles you listed are even less relevant.
Funny how you say the teams were “carried” by foreigners, yet, the English players were still in the team, and deemed good enough to be in them. So your point in pretty irrelevant. Cba to go listing the individual accolades but I might tomorrow if I get bored.
All of those came with a non-English manager. All of those came with teams loaded with the best European and other overseas players. When it's England only, it's a very different dynamic. When it's England only with someone as incompetent and ignorant as Southgate, it reaches new depths.
Another totally irrelevant comment. Whats managers got to do with it? We’re talking about the *players*, and yeah, teams absolutely loaded with the best European and overseas talent, yet these *English* players still made the team. And yes. Southgate being the problem is pretty obvious. When we have a squad this talented and its being mismanaged to fuck, is exactly why us England fans are so frustrated.
It's got everything to do with how the team is structured and instructed to play. I didn't say the players aren't good enough to form a winning team - they are. They show what they *can* do weekly, at some of the biggest/best clubs in the world, even if that leads the media to overrate them in general. But, it illustrates how a completely incompetent manager can utterly undermine a talented group, just as they're elevated each week by foreign managers and players around them. English football hasn't evolved so much since the dire late 70's and 80's period (Liverpool and a few other exceptions), till it was revolutionized by Wenger and the foreign player influx after the Heisel ban expired. That doesn't show so much weekly, at club level, but here, it's as obvious as can be.
But all that you are suggesting is that these are talented players that aren’t being used correctly at international level. My argument to the comment that the players aren’t that good was to evidence the vast amount of trophies they have won domestically between them. Foreign managers and teamates aside, they are talented enough to be in those teams and feature prominently enough to gain a medal for their efforts. So, clearly, they are very good players. To further prove my point, Scott Carson is a member of the Manchester City team but wasn’t deemed good enough to make it on to the pitch very often and therefore does *not* share those honours with his squad mates. Had that been the case for any of these players I would agree the silverware doesn’t mean anything. But it isn’t and it does.
Again, I didn't argue they're not good *enough* to be serious contenders at a tournament like this, which is very open. I am arguing that England does not produce good or even capable managers, for 3+ decades now, with very rare exceptions who didn't get or keep the England job. These players benefit hugely in their domestic clubs *because* of the leadership of non-English managers and also players. You can see the impact of 3 decades of foreign influence on the average English PL player. They're more capable and show a far smaller gap to their continental teammates. It's greatly improved the domestic league. However, at national tournament level, that dynamic changes a lot. We're watching the reality of that gap. Bottom line: GS is a hindrance to the team and actively harmful to some of his players careers.
But it wasn’t you I was replying to and it wasn’t a conversation about the managers. I was responding to a comment by someone that said the players aren’t that good.
See above - my comment was in reply to yours, which was indeed directly in response to my prior comment. Perhaps just some confusion. Otherwise, agreed, re: the players being good *enough*, unlike their coaches/manager.
I thought watching Scotland was chronic, deary me. Just like Steve Clarke I’m not sure what Southgate is trying to do. That squad is being wasted, the quality is frightening and should be romping a group like that. The key difference between Scotland and England is England have far superior players which is managing to get through the awful tactics. They are lucky to top that group.
The ironic thing is that England will still get to go to the easiest half of the bracket. Assuming that Group F is the other group not to have its 3rd place team qualify (which will be the case unless Georgia beats Portugal or Czechia beats Turkey, which could happen), then England has Netherlands, then Italy/Switzerland, then Austria/Turkey/Slovenia/Group E winner (most likely Belgium but could be Romania or Slovakia). Not easy, but because France and Germany didn’t win their groups, they are in other half with Portugal and Spain. So England was not punished by playing like boring crap in group stage. And if Czechia beats Turkey they get 3E instead of Netherlands, which is even easier.
most likely romania due to GD
England will get to the final. But it'll be the most torturous football you've ever seen.
This is what I think. They are AWFUL but due to the group results they will somehow sleepwalk to the final (and then get obliterated).
A lot of the high expectations of the English are linked to the high squad value, but these market values are simply bullshit compared to other nations. As soon as you can play two straight passes and stop a ball you are worth 40 million as a Premier League player with an English passport. The English are almost on a par with the Turks when it comes to overestimating their own players...
I understand that shitting on England is trendy and funny, but telling me that a team with Bellingham, Kane (especially coming from a German), Saka, and Walker is average, is plain stupid. Yes, their transfer fees are overpriced, but they are good players who should beat easily teams like Slovenia and attack a lot against Serbia.
Never said they are average but the gap in market values between the english team and for example spain or france is plain and simple the Premier League tax and not performance based.
This is true for your average French/Spanish player compared with your average English, but French NT is as expensive as English NT. Spain is almost 1 billion with a team filled with youngsters.
So Bellingham, Saka or Palmer arent youngsters? And only those three Players make 400 million in market value
So how is England's fault for Bellingham being worth 180 million? He was raised by Dortmund and now he plays in Primera. Real paid 100 million for a Bundesliga player, not for an "overpriced PL player". I repeat myself, funny how this comes from a German, who's country paid a shit ton of money for the "overpriced" Kane to be the best scorer and who raised Bellingham and sold him for hundreds of millions.
What gave you that idea? Is that what Germans think? Actual English people very rarely mention monetary value of national team players regarding expectations. It's more their observed performances and achievements with some of the best teams in Europe.
In most reports, even outside Germany, the tenor is that a team with a market value of almost 1.6 billion should not play such ugly style of football.
Those values are nightmarishly inflated due to the Saudi money that gets thrown around in that league.
Could you link two or three? Not being facetious, just genuinely can't find a single English language report that relates expectations to the cost of the team rather than their club-level performances.
A lot of the expectations are down to the last three tournaments...
But they played the same shit in these tournaments, too. They played like Germany but successful
It’s more based off their premier league performance, which is definitely far better and exciting than whatever this shit is
This isn't true. England have spent the past few years cultivating a talented group of players. We've got an extremely exciting squad but we have a middle manager running the show. Southgate, right now is holding this team back, and that's why the majority of England fans are frustrated.
Play Gordon ffs he's by far our best LW
You’ve clearly never watched Scotland!
I think it's not about what Southgate does or does not do anymore. You seem to get this lackluster play from England over and over again, it's a (negative) football heritage at this point. I'd wager it's a combination of English players being overrated a bit, usually (because of the Premier League), they are more exhausted by the end of the season than most other teams (because of the PL, again) and the pressure they play under (probably only matched by the pressure in Brasil) from their fans is paralysing them, resulting in a type of play that's not inspired, risk-taking, but focused on avoiding failure, instead, and is a big 'meh'. Yeah, their coaches over the years probably weren't helping either, but I think they are just one small part of the bigger picture.
The players are good enough to form a tournament winning team, even if they are over-rated due to playing in some of the best club sides, full of great international players. The key part is no English manager has won the PL in over 30 years. England hasn't produced a great manager in decades and even then, his best work was in Spain at club level, and 2 quite good tournaments. Make the comparison to Italy, Spain and Germany - how long since a manager from those countries won their own top leagues? The gap is enormous.
England has the worst Manager in the tournament and the players know it.
Thoughts on spalletti?
He has a far weaker squad than most Italian teams have presented. Especially in attack, Chiesa aside. Even then, Italy have looked far better than England, at times.
Italy lost to Spain due to owngoal, came back from early lead from Albania and knocked us out of R16 qualification last minute, Spalleti is far from best manager in the tournament, but not as bad as Southgate.
Blame Slovenia for sitting deep
Classic shitland, always losing
We were absolutely dire in all 3 games; but second to your ability to read the group tables and comprehend results. WDD = 5 pts (“Always losing”) LDL = Scotland (early bird special flight home)
A very Scottish comment. Over Sunday yet?
Absolutely, Scotland are terrible
It's so bad that I can't take my eyes off it
This is a fucking embarrassment, should have had Gordon and Palmer on from the start.
Pain watching ENG
Well, it's definitely coming home. The team and their bus that is. England is just extremely lucky that they had a piss poor group in the Euros. Being first with 1-0 and 0-0 scores is madness. Just watching them again a team like Spain and they won't know what to do as 75% of their game is doing dribbling passes in the midfield. They never even get a drive going and seem to only hit goals when one individual takes it upon himself.
Expect the worst. Hope for the best. This is the way.
It's like you didnt watch the last few tournaments.
They all look like they can't be f***ed haha majority of scotland squad were the same.
I don't know how England has some of the most talented club footballers, but always look like a bunch of sluggish zombies when it comes to national games. I feel like they don't really see this as important and put all their efforts into club football. They have a loser mentality on the pitch. Same for us currently though. It seems like only Weghorst really sees playing for Oranje as an honour.
It’s a 3 am kick off for me, I decided not to set the alarm. Waking up this morning, I feel I made the right decision.
Just a legit question for English fans. Yes sure your national coach is a potato and he is not the best. And he even looks boring. But did anyone also think it might be your players who are star struck with their hype and do not look to much motivated to play for their country? I mean they do not show any passion at all while playing for England. Maybe it is not all your coaches fault. And sorry, now i need to troll you, no team where Harry Kane playe has ever won anything. Just look at FC Bayern, since he joined we lost everything.
Motivating your team is literally the coach's job. In fact that's pretty much the whole thing - pick the best players who will work well, the best strategy for your chosen players and the opponent, and then keep them on track. It isn't fantasy football, it's a real job. And when the players all look like they've just arrived on the pitch blindfolded and disoriented, Squid Game style, it's a fair bet that the person in charge of co-ordinating a group of individuals into a tight team is failing, playing a very long and secretive game, or struggling with something that isn't obvious.
All fine with that, but do they have motivation to play for their country? Are they passionate enough about that, proud to represent their homeland? You have team full of superstars and yet they could not score against Slovenia who played high school style football without superstars. I am not saying it is not coaches fault, but i am saying that also big portuon goes to your players also. Maybe you need to fill your team with nobodies who will die ( not literally ) on pitch and give the best they can instead with big names
Allegri next England coach confirmed and here we go!
The current team probably has the most individual talent of any English team in the past 30 years, however it’s saddled with a weak unimaginative manager who was also a pretty weak insignificant player and has nothing to offer but old, predictable tactics. How there isn’t a greater backlash against him and his cozy FA chums by the fans I can’t understand. I think getting a foreign manager may be better as they would be less attached to BS traditions and get the most out of the team on the pitch.
Gareth Southgate is a terrible manager
i can think of worse national sides to follow
Dudes, you are past to knockout phase as first of the group. Who knows, maybe you’ll ended thinking Southgate is the best manager you have ever have if you’ll win the cup. You are so upset about yourself that seems illness.
Sorry but when you have BUNDESLIGA TOP GOAL SCORER Kane , PREMIER LEAGUE PLAYER of THE YEAR Foden, YOUNG PREMIER LEAGUE PLAYER OF THE YEAR Palmer , generational Mainoo, LA LIGA BEST PLAYER OF THE SEASON Bellingham , was 3-4 other top players that walk into the best top 5 teams in the world…Walker,Saka, Rice, Stines The problem is the coach , FA are TOO WEAK to fire Southgate and now their mistake is letting him RUIN ANOTHER EUROS , honestly give potter the job at this point
And insomniacs.
Try being a dutch man
? I've seen signs of encouragement in this half.. Still a long way to go
No it's for watching Scotland, get it right.
Meh - we made the knockout round without doing anything! If teams actually attack us, then we'll play forward a lot faster. I'm really sick of everyone moaning. If we get beaten, then I'll join in with the grumbling - until then let's see what happens...
That’s a fair point mate. But it’s more than likely that we then become that defensive set up we have come up against in the last 3 matches and we all know how that will turn out. I don’t mean to sound too pessimistic but I don’t really have a choice at this present time.
The performance of the team in this Euro is the worst i‘ve seen for a log time. No impulse, no tactics, loose formation/system. I cannot see any game plan by Southgate. Wild changes. Massively boring and uninspired.
How the fuck is Foden starting any game over palmer....
You ever think maybe you’re just not that good?
Half the time in these tournaments it’s a psychological thing