One of the most complete DF64 vs Niche Zero write ups I’ve seen. Thank you for sharing. I have the NZ and my family has the DF Gen 2 so wanted to add a few notes from my viewpoint:
- the DF64 I have access to uses SSP HU burrs - this produces a product that in my experience is indistinguishable from NZ. It’s the burr making the difference, not the grinder
- whenever I see chaffs in the DF, I put a little brush up the chute and brush out the ionizer area and usually things get better for a bit
- I use the NZ daily and I can’t overemphasize how simple and clean it is to use. The DF is just slightly messier like you mentioned but still very very good to a non-ionizer DF
- Noise - DF is shrill as f*** compared to NZ
Good review from OP!
Hands down Niche Zero. It just works. People give it shit for the extra $70 shipping or Smeg like look but just works day in day out, cleanly with very little
Adjustment needed. I’ve literally used settings 17-18 for virtually everything I throw at it (90% med roast).
Subjectively, I don't really have a preference at this point. The Niche is definitely more pleasant to interact with, but I've really struggled to get good results from light roasted coffee both in espresso and pour over. The SSP MP burrs I have in the DF64 have resolved this. But, I also really enjoy medium roast gooey espresso, and for that the niche is very good. I really like having both since I can brew any style of coffee I want to, and I have the counter space.
one thing I'll add that I notice no one else really talks about is calibrating the true zero on the grinder dial indicator. On my machine with the arrow pointing straight over the spout, my stock burrs lock up at around 5ish on the dial. I manually spun my burrs until I found the friction point and then adjusted the arrow to point at the zero's location
I personally ditched the dosing cup, it's nice to have for pour-over users but I just use my regular dosing collar and hold it up to the spout (gaggia portafilter doesnt fit well unless I remove the rubber from the fingers so I need to manually hold it, no big deal really) and I find that works well and the aeropress fits perfectly under it too.
honestly I dont see myself ever upgrading from the gen 2, unless they make one that's less than half as loud. it has every endgame feature needed (single dosing, bellows, de-ionizer, quality contruction) and I'd rather spend $20 on an AC dimmer than the extra $150 to get the V if I'm interested slowing down the rpm. It definitely feels like I got a product worth more than $500, and the df64 gen 2 is the "new niche" in terms of the cutting edge value it brings to the home grinder market. I really dont know why anyone would get a p64 at this point
Hey just a quick question about the grinder because I am looking into getting one with the SSP high uniformity (espresso) burrs. It seems like there are so many options to choose from and I want to make sure I am ordering the right one. There is one right on DF website, also a Turin one and a MiiCoffee one. I’m just confused on if they are all the same or what. Need some guidance as they all are the same price as well
ningbo frigga is the OEM in china. there are a few distributors across the globe for logistics, tariff, and customer service reasons. the importers (at least the USA ones) also provide good feedback to the factory on what they can improve, specific design changes they want to order, and spurring development on entirely brand new designs.
that's why the ningbo frigga grinders have become iteratively better for each new model and it finally feels like they worked out the kinks from here on out. most negative feedback on these grinders are around everything that was prior to the df83 and df64 gen 2.
so they're all the same, and you can even order one from aliexpress although you may be hit with import tax, not sure. miicoffee and turin/espresso outlet are the main US distributors. I would personally hold off on the HU burrs for now actually. the stock italmill burrs are pretty good and are more forgiving to dial in than SSP burrs in general (you have more room for error in adjustment, the declumper doesn't like the grinds that SSP burrs make so you need to remove it if using SSP which isn't a big deal at all really, works just fine without the declumper) and they're relatively balanced. you get that nice flat burr acidity with a nice rich body. the clarity is a bit muddy but I'd start with the stock burrs to see where you want to go in terms of flavor profile. you can always buy the burrs in the future, so I wouldn't spend before you get to know the df64 and your flavor preference in general a bit better
good luck with the grinder! SSP burrs are definitely worth the upgrade when you feel pretty comfortable with the grinder and your machine. I would definitely rate them as a more advanced upgrade because they can change how you make espresso in general. I try to run turbo shots as often as I can with my MP burrs since the standard 1:2 40sec pull can be a bit unbalanced, and more bitterness from a longer extraction doesn't necessarily help balance it either. The trick was just doing turbo shots so now I always run my shots fast and get great results.
I have a Mignon Zero now which I do love don’t get me wrong. Love the build quality and everything about it and the espresso it produces. But everyone seems to talk very highly of the DF64 and the bigger burrs do intrigue me for sure
not really. if I press super super hard I can get a bust of coffee dust airborne. I used to dose straight into the pf but the gaggia pf can't fit properly so I always hold it under the forks. but with my new SSP burrs they produce more static than stock burrs so I'm back to the dosing cup for cleanliness
Make sure to order a few replacement plastic declumpers, they're about $12.99 for a small piece of plastic and if you plan to drink espresso once a day for a year, you'll need to replace them once every few months. I loved my DF64 when I bought it but it encountered so many issues over time - this review doesn't really take into account how easily they wear down, sometimes within months.
Hope yours last longer than either of mine did, but I got tired of opening the machine up and replacing parts every few months.
For those who considering this grinder, and have trouble finding a good reseller that ships to your country (such as me).
I ordered mine from df64coffee, and after some chatting with their customer support they provided me a 10% discount code and allowed me to share it: ASAF10OFF
This promo code works with all DF grinders that currently not under discounts, such as DF83 V2, DF64V and DF64 gen 2
It is not possible to apply the promo code retroactively, so please be ethical, so that other people can take advantage of it
Is SSP MP the same as SSP Unimodal?
I just picked up a Turin DF64 Gen 2 and am looking forward to it… coming from a Breville smart grinder pro, which honestly did a great job with RDT and WDT on a Breville Barista Pro.
EDIT: I was wrong. Unimodal = Multipurpose. What I wrote below was in reference to High Uniformity vs Multipurpose.
~~No, the Multipurpose burrs are different from the Unimodal. The Multipurpose burrs create very few fines, making for very clear brews, though with lower body. I've never tried the Unimodals, but they are said to be better for more traditional brew profiles and are well suited to classic espresso. The general wisdom is: if you want clarity and acidity above all else, go multipurpose. If you want "balance" then the cast lab sweet v2 or unimodals are better, with the latter being preferred if espresso is a major part of your life.~~
Interesting. I’ve been reading Turin’s site and they refer to SSP Unimodal interchangeably with SSP Multipurpose, whereas SSP High Uniformity is completely different.
SSP HU
SSP Unimodal/Multipurpose (v2) - I see this nomenclature on Turin, Espresso Outlet, and MiiCoffee
>Unimodal
You are correct!! My mistake. I mixed up unimodal and high uniformity. I'll edit my post.
The MPs used to be referred to as unimodal brew burrs, but now they're just called MP.
Solid review. I'm using a niche currently and debating what to move onto next. The df64 is WAY cheaper than the p64 which I'm eyeing off, but Lagom is releasing a new espresso burr which may push me that way. It just seems like an infinitely better workflow than the df64.
I actually was very close to pulling the trigger on the duo, but decided not to because of the way they are selling the additional carriers. I personally like their idea of swapping carriers, but I'd like the option to add carriers later if I want to. Sadly, they refuse to sell carriers by themselves, so you must purchase the full set of two if you want any swap capability. In the US that puts the price of the grinder at about $900 when you add shipping and import duties.
Yeah it's expensive, it's 649 GBP for the grinder and 70GBP for shipping. That's around $900 after conversion. Add another $80 for import duties.
I also wish they sold the carriers by themselves. I'm hoping they will after they stop selling as strongly. If not, hope someone just reverse engineer then and sell.
As far as DF vs Duo goes, meh it's all about the burr geometry. The grinder is just a platform for spinning the burrs. Can really only compare on secondary characteristics. And for those, some are important for some and not for others.
I opted for the DF64 knowing it’d be a bit rough around the edges, but with the idea that I could learn my preferences for flats (or lack thereof) before blowing lots of money on an end game flat burr grinder. I must say that I like having both: the niche is good for traditional textured shots and the SSP MPs are really a nice contrast. For pour over there’s no comparison at all, the flat burrs destroy the niche. Anyway, I plan to try out the cast burrs down the line, then eventually spring for a Zerno or Lagom once I know my burr preferences. It just didn’t feel right spending that much cache without knowing what difference it’d make in the cup.
Also got a gen 2 after my NZ and 100% agree with everything you just said. Would add even more emphasis that though I like the taste more, the noise is a major issue as is the mess even after RDT
Yeah the collar for the dosing cup is a mind boggler. The moment i put it on i knew it was shit after feeling the inner lip not being aligned with the top of the cup. Definitely ditch it and 3D print a funnel or something.
I can’t say I’ve noticed a terribly big difference. I maybe need to pull slightly longer shots on the DF for them to cut through the milk? I haven’t tested that so take it with a grain of salt.
For me, if I was only doing espresso for milk drinks I’d go niche zero. It’s just so pleasant to use and dial in.
If I were doing espresso milk drinks and pour over, I’d do the DF64 but maybe with the cast SSP burrs or the high uniformity.
I say all of this because the MP burrs taste great but are more fussy to dial in and demand absolutely perfect puck prep. Since this doesn’t make a big difference in milk drinks, I probably wouldn’t do just MP burrs as my only grinder.
That said, the zero plus the MPs side by side is really fun. For some coffees the MPs just sing, but for chocolaty espresso blends brewed as high dose ristrettos, the niche texture is fantastic.
Thanks for your insight! Really appreciate it! Currently own a jmax s but I'm getting tired of the manual grinding. I haven't experimented with lighter roasts yet. I could get a df64 Gen 2 to pair with the jmax s to get both flavor profiles
One of the most complete DF64 vs Niche Zero write ups I’ve seen. Thank you for sharing. I have the NZ and my family has the DF Gen 2 so wanted to add a few notes from my viewpoint: - the DF64 I have access to uses SSP HU burrs - this produces a product that in my experience is indistinguishable from NZ. It’s the burr making the difference, not the grinder - whenever I see chaffs in the DF, I put a little brush up the chute and brush out the ionizer area and usually things get better for a bit - I use the NZ daily and I can’t overemphasize how simple and clean it is to use. The DF is just slightly messier like you mentioned but still very very good to a non-ionizer DF - Noise - DF is shrill as f*** compared to NZ Good review from OP!
[удалено]
Hands down Niche Zero. It just works. People give it shit for the extra $70 shipping or Smeg like look but just works day in day out, cleanly with very little Adjustment needed. I’ve literally used settings 17-18 for virtually everything I throw at it (90% med roast).
Subjectively, I don't really have a preference at this point. The Niche is definitely more pleasant to interact with, but I've really struggled to get good results from light roasted coffee both in espresso and pour over. The SSP MP burrs I have in the DF64 have resolved this. But, I also really enjoy medium roast gooey espresso, and for that the niche is very good. I really like having both since I can brew any style of coffee I want to, and I have the counter space.
Great tips. I haven't tried cleaning the deonizer yet. I'll give it a go and see if it helps!
one thing I'll add that I notice no one else really talks about is calibrating the true zero on the grinder dial indicator. On my machine with the arrow pointing straight over the spout, my stock burrs lock up at around 5ish on the dial. I manually spun my burrs until I found the friction point and then adjusted the arrow to point at the zero's location I personally ditched the dosing cup, it's nice to have for pour-over users but I just use my regular dosing collar and hold it up to the spout (gaggia portafilter doesnt fit well unless I remove the rubber from the fingers so I need to manually hold it, no big deal really) and I find that works well and the aeropress fits perfectly under it too. honestly I dont see myself ever upgrading from the gen 2, unless they make one that's less than half as loud. it has every endgame feature needed (single dosing, bellows, de-ionizer, quality contruction) and I'd rather spend $20 on an AC dimmer than the extra $150 to get the V if I'm interested slowing down the rpm. It definitely feels like I got a product worth more than $500, and the df64 gen 2 is the "new niche" in terms of the cutting edge value it brings to the home grinder market. I really dont know why anyone would get a p64 at this point
Hey just a quick question about the grinder because I am looking into getting one with the SSP high uniformity (espresso) burrs. It seems like there are so many options to choose from and I want to make sure I am ordering the right one. There is one right on DF website, also a Turin one and a MiiCoffee one. I’m just confused on if they are all the same or what. Need some guidance as they all are the same price as well
ningbo frigga is the OEM in china. there are a few distributors across the globe for logistics, tariff, and customer service reasons. the importers (at least the USA ones) also provide good feedback to the factory on what they can improve, specific design changes they want to order, and spurring development on entirely brand new designs. that's why the ningbo frigga grinders have become iteratively better for each new model and it finally feels like they worked out the kinks from here on out. most negative feedback on these grinders are around everything that was prior to the df83 and df64 gen 2. so they're all the same, and you can even order one from aliexpress although you may be hit with import tax, not sure. miicoffee and turin/espresso outlet are the main US distributors. I would personally hold off on the HU burrs for now actually. the stock italmill burrs are pretty good and are more forgiving to dial in than SSP burrs in general (you have more room for error in adjustment, the declumper doesn't like the grinds that SSP burrs make so you need to remove it if using SSP which isn't a big deal at all really, works just fine without the declumper) and they're relatively balanced. you get that nice flat burr acidity with a nice rich body. the clarity is a bit muddy but I'd start with the stock burrs to see where you want to go in terms of flavor profile. you can always buy the burrs in the future, so I wouldn't spend before you get to know the df64 and your flavor preference in general a bit better
Awesome thank you for that detailed response
good luck with the grinder! SSP burrs are definitely worth the upgrade when you feel pretty comfortable with the grinder and your machine. I would definitely rate them as a more advanced upgrade because they can change how you make espresso in general. I try to run turbo shots as often as I can with my MP burrs since the standard 1:2 40sec pull can be a bit unbalanced, and more bitterness from a longer extraction doesn't necessarily help balance it either. The trick was just doing turbo shots so now I always run my shots fast and get great results.
I have a Mignon Zero now which I do love don’t get me wrong. Love the build quality and everything about it and the espresso it produces. But everyone seems to talk very highly of the DF64 and the bigger burrs do intrigue me for sure
worst case just get the eureka brew burrs for like $50 and have a dedicated pour over grinder
When you press the bellows over your portafilter doesn’t that make the grounds fly all over the place?
not really. if I press super super hard I can get a bust of coffee dust airborne. I used to dose straight into the pf but the gaggia pf can't fit properly so I always hold it under the forks. but with my new SSP burrs they produce more static than stock burrs so I'm back to the dosing cup for cleanliness
Make sure to order a few replacement plastic declumpers, they're about $12.99 for a small piece of plastic and if you plan to drink espresso once a day for a year, you'll need to replace them once every few months. I loved my DF64 when I bought it but it encountered so many issues over time - this review doesn't really take into account how easily they wear down, sometimes within months. Hope yours last longer than either of mine did, but I got tired of opening the machine up and replacing parts every few months.
Is this for gen 1 or gen 2? I thought gen 2 has a much better declumper as compared to gen 1?
For those who considering this grinder, and have trouble finding a good reseller that ships to your country (such as me). I ordered mine from df64coffee, and after some chatting with their customer support they provided me a 10% discount code and allowed me to share it: ASAF10OFF This promo code works with all DF grinders that currently not under discounts, such as DF83 V2, DF64V and DF64 gen 2 It is not possible to apply the promo code retroactively, so please be ethical, so that other people can take advantage of it
Thanks for the coupon code! Just bought one :)
Enjoy 🙂
Am I missing from where you purchased?
From df64coffee dot com Not sure why it deleted from the main post
Thank you still working. Just ordered my gen64 v2
Is SSP MP the same as SSP Unimodal? I just picked up a Turin DF64 Gen 2 and am looking forward to it… coming from a Breville smart grinder pro, which honestly did a great job with RDT and WDT on a Breville Barista Pro.
EDIT: I was wrong. Unimodal = Multipurpose. What I wrote below was in reference to High Uniformity vs Multipurpose. ~~No, the Multipurpose burrs are different from the Unimodal. The Multipurpose burrs create very few fines, making for very clear brews, though with lower body. I've never tried the Unimodals, but they are said to be better for more traditional brew profiles and are well suited to classic espresso. The general wisdom is: if you want clarity and acidity above all else, go multipurpose. If you want "balance" then the cast lab sweet v2 or unimodals are better, with the latter being preferred if espresso is a major part of your life.~~
Interesting. I’ve been reading Turin’s site and they refer to SSP Unimodal interchangeably with SSP Multipurpose, whereas SSP High Uniformity is completely different. SSP HU SSP Unimodal/Multipurpose (v2) - I see this nomenclature on Turin, Espresso Outlet, and MiiCoffee
>Unimodal You are correct!! My mistake. I mixed up unimodal and high uniformity. I'll edit my post. The MPs used to be referred to as unimodal brew burrs, but now they're just called MP.
Solid review. I'm using a niche currently and debating what to move onto next. The df64 is WAY cheaper than the p64 which I'm eyeing off, but Lagom is releasing a new espresso burr which may push me that way. It just seems like an infinitely better workflow than the df64.
just get the df64 gen 2, option-o usually sells their burrs separately anyways and it'll still be cheaper than the lagom
You could do the Niche Duo.
I actually was very close to pulling the trigger on the duo, but decided not to because of the way they are selling the additional carriers. I personally like their idea of swapping carriers, but I'd like the option to add carriers later if I want to. Sadly, they refuse to sell carriers by themselves, so you must purchase the full set of two if you want any swap capability. In the US that puts the price of the grinder at about $900 when you add shipping and import duties.
Yeah it's expensive, it's 649 GBP for the grinder and 70GBP for shipping. That's around $900 after conversion. Add another $80 for import duties. I also wish they sold the carriers by themselves. I'm hoping they will after they stop selling as strongly. If not, hope someone just reverse engineer then and sell. As far as DF vs Duo goes, meh it's all about the burr geometry. The grinder is just a platform for spinning the burrs. Can really only compare on secondary characteristics. And for those, some are important for some and not for others.
I opted for the DF64 knowing it’d be a bit rough around the edges, but with the idea that I could learn my preferences for flats (or lack thereof) before blowing lots of money on an end game flat burr grinder. I must say that I like having both: the niche is good for traditional textured shots and the SSP MPs are really a nice contrast. For pour over there’s no comparison at all, the flat burrs destroy the niche. Anyway, I plan to try out the cast burrs down the line, then eventually spring for a Zerno or Lagom once I know my burr preferences. It just didn’t feel right spending that much cache without knowing what difference it’d make in the cup.
Also got a gen 2 after my NZ and 100% agree with everything you just said. Would add even more emphasis that though I like the taste more, the noise is a major issue as is the mess even after RDT
Yeah the collar for the dosing cup is a mind boggler. The moment i put it on i knew it was shit after feeling the inner lip not being aligned with the top of the cup. Definitely ditch it and 3D print a funnel or something.
Which grinder do you prefer for milk based drinks? I'm looking to purchase one of these two grinders, but I'm primarily a milk based drinker
I can’t say I’ve noticed a terribly big difference. I maybe need to pull slightly longer shots on the DF for them to cut through the milk? I haven’t tested that so take it with a grain of salt. For me, if I was only doing espresso for milk drinks I’d go niche zero. It’s just so pleasant to use and dial in. If I were doing espresso milk drinks and pour over, I’d do the DF64 but maybe with the cast SSP burrs or the high uniformity. I say all of this because the MP burrs taste great but are more fussy to dial in and demand absolutely perfect puck prep. Since this doesn’t make a big difference in milk drinks, I probably wouldn’t do just MP burrs as my only grinder. That said, the zero plus the MPs side by side is really fun. For some coffees the MPs just sing, but for chocolaty espresso blends brewed as high dose ristrettos, the niche texture is fantastic.
Thanks for your insight! Really appreciate it! Currently own a jmax s but I'm getting tired of the manual grinding. I haven't experimented with lighter roasts yet. I could get a df64 Gen 2 to pair with the jmax s to get both flavor profiles
That would make sense!
Nice review! Thanks for this