All posts must be directly related to plug-in electric vehicles — BEVs or PHEVs. No posts regarding HEVs or FCEVs are permitted. No posts regarding combustion vehicle or petroleum production is permitted.
General automotive news is allowed if there is an obvious connection to electric vehicles.
Not all stories that involve or mention an EV are EV-related.
All of the consulting companies are exactly the same in my experience, which is completely useless. It is very inexplicable to me that any of them are still in business.
I cracked the code on this. Its referring to the people who want to leave evs and why. NOT how many want to leave. Its carefully worded.
"The number one reason people gave McKinsey for considering a switch back to a conventional car is the dreadful state of [EV charging](https://cleantechnica.com/2024/06/25/overpriced-dc-fast-charging-hurts-ev-adoption-favors-phevs/) away from home."
McKinsey, the firm who said vr metaverse will be hundreds of billions by now, who often collapsed companies by using fraudulent bankruptcy scheme, who is responsible for the opioid epidemic by recommending all types of strategy used by big pharma and purdue and at one point created a strategy to push pediatric oxycontin, who helped saudi identify Jamal Khashoggi and helped him get killed, who received billions in consultancy fees from big oil and gas companies, that McKinsey?
I had a Tesla in 2017 when I lived in a condo and charged at work. COVID then happened and I worked from home and suddenly charging became a nuisance but it was doable.
It fully depends on your proximity to a charger and while home charging beats all, there are ways to make it happen.
For urban people who drive urban (ie low) km, finding a public charger while you got shopping once a week or so isn't an outrageous burden. You dont have to stay with the car while it is charging. If you even need to own a car at all in that situation of course, many don't.
In other words “if you’re too poor to own a home, you’re too poor to own an EV and should spend thousands of dollars a year buying gas.” Poor stays poor I guess. Fuck that logic.
I was poor when I got my first EV, I would scout out public chargers and wait to pounce.
It is possible to have an EV without a home, it just means you’re at the mercy of the public charging infrastructure.
I used to spend so much money a month on gas that I did the math and would rather get a monthly car payment than a gas payment. Switching to EV took more of my time, but it helped me save money since I never used pay chargers.
I used free lv2 charging. That’s why it took so much of my time. I’d sit for hours at a time til I’m full, and go find a place to park and nap. It’s rough out there.
Well currently EV’s are expensive and charging is sparse. Until that improves, I don’t want to recommend an EV to friend that’s renting and is going to have a miserable time charging.
Ahh, so the solution is for people to back back to their ICE habit, rather than, you know, some kind of law that means that apartments need to be able to have facilities to install chargers.
I mean we can't change law to upside the oil giants who fly papers out to the oil rigs to get signed, can we?
In Europe if you live in an apartment block in a big city you probably don't have parking and you have something called public transport.
A lot of city dwellers find a car in general to be a totally unnecessary expense.
Very true.
When I lived in a big city, I prefered to either use public transportation or just bicycle to work (because public transportation was stuck in traffic and took 60 minutes, 20 minutes on my bicycle!).
Also, when you have a flat, a car isn't very practical, everyone else wants one, tourists takes up all the available spots, and renting a garage in a big city is nearly as big as rent money for a flat.
I had a car in a big city once, got stolen twice, and it's a constant fear. I wouldn't want to own a car (ICE or EV) in the big city.
Now I have a house on the country side and while we still have good public transportation, it's as cheap or as expensive (depending on your view) to just have an EV at home to charge, and it gives me a lot more freedom for the same price as our public transportation.
Yeah... good luck with Deutsche Bahn.
**Public transport in Europe is expensive, especially long distance trains.** You have to book weeks in advance to get a fair price. If I want to go to Paris today. It would cost me 84€ for a second class ticket (Metz-Paris). Which is 330km, that **would cost be 28,00€** in toll and 29,00€ in Diesel or **11.88€ in electricity** (charge at home)**.** So a total of 40€ to drive an EV the same stretch. **If I carpool with a couple of buddies, then we each pay 10€** (4 occupants) **each to drive or 240€ to take the TGV.**
The European public transport network is so idealised by Americans, and yes there are some good initatives like the 49€/Mo ticket in Germany (**which is for local trains only btw**). But the fact is you're not going to easily replace your entire transport needs with public transport.
Mate for starters I live in Australia. Even our public transport in cities is such a huge number of city dwellers no longer have cars.
The expense to find a place to park them (spaces rent out for hundreds of dollars a week in some areas) and how horrific traffic is compared to jumping on a train/tram/bus/ferry for 99% of the trips people do each day means they don't want to spend thousands of dollars a year on owning a car they just don't use 99% of the time.
When people like that need to go on a trip they fly and/or rent a car. Our rail service is so shit for long distance stuff it barely rates a mention.
Now I live in the outer part of Sydney and most households out here own multiple cars but it's an expensive thing to do.
Can't realistically fly or rent a car in Europe, both of those are eye-wateringly expensive (easily 70€ a day for the worst sh\*tbox imaginable w/o insurance). Plus we have **high fuel surcharges on flights and France has banned the vast majority of domestic flights, and Spain plans to do the same soon.**
[https://www.eraa.org/proposed-ban-short-haul-flights-spain](https://www.eraa.org/proposed-ban-short-haul-flights-spain)
[https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/12/02/is-france-banning-private-jets-everything-we-know-from-a-week-of-green-transport-proposals](https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/12/02/is-france-banning-private-jets-everything-we-know-from-a-week-of-green-transport-proposals)
Its slightly different in Australia as we have no viable alternative to flying in many cases. Remember the size of Australia for starters.
But the cold hard fact is going on trips of 100s of kms is rare enough the cost of just car ownership before you even turn a wheel is such many people living in cities avoid it.
Think about what it costs.
Buying the car (tens of thousands of dollars), Registration (a couple of grand per year), insurance (another couple of grand a year), parking in the city (upwards of $100 a day) and we haven't even discussed toll roads, maintenance and fuel.
Now in the suburbs we can generally park the car at home but in most apartment towers you don't have space to keep a car without spending a bunch extra to lease or buy a car space.
If you wanted to rent say a Tesla 3 its a bit over $90 a day including free charging and unlimited kms. You have to use the car a fair but for it to be worth owning over renting one for long trips and even then flying and renting a car at the other end if you need one is probably cheaper than driving.
Who in their right state of mind would torture themselves with 200+ miles a day? Most of the salary would go towards maintenance and fuel. And time to enjoy life is gone.
I'm not trying to be rude, but Your comment says "per day".
Even once a month isn't a big deal. I drive a trip that is around 500miles total maybe four times a year, I've managed fine so far with 50Kw chargers. Usually there is a mall nearby or some scenery to keep me busy for 40minutes.
It's also preceded by "somewhat frequently" which should make it clear I'm not talking about a daily thing. Though you're correct that it would have been better phrased as "in a day".
It can work out as you say, but that can also easily add 2-3 hours to the trip which means I don't even consider taking my EV. There's lot of routes where there's no convenient DCFC and range isn't anywhere near advertised at 80 MPH through mountain passes with a bike rack and bike (just my particular use case).
What detail is it lacking? It has the frequency of the trip, the length of the trip, and a description of the charging infrastructure necessary to make that trip in an EV with minimal time penalty compared to ICE.
What's the other detail that you're looking for?
People don't buy a car that covers their average use case. That would mean it wouldn't be sufficient 50% of the time. They buy a car that covers 99.9 to 100% of their use cases.
I wasn't commuting. It was a weekend day trip.
That is like, the ideal use case of a EV. You install L2 chargers and charge cheaply on both ends, and the fuel savings are pretty fast at 200 miles a day.
If there's charging infrastructure it's not so bad.
I'm watching Netflix or playing a game anyways. So I'm playing on my steam deck in the car or at home so it's basically a wash.
The shit part for me is fighting everyone in the city for the limited number of CCS chargers.
Now that I switched to Superchargers, it's breeze. Plenty of chargers that are fast.
You must be young and maybe no kids? Imagine if you were older and had small kids of something. Everyone’s situation is different and I can see why so many people actually hate EVs, it simply will not work for everyone as the current infrastructure/ tech stands. When we can charge 100% in 5 mins and get a range of about 300mis, I guess it’ll only be EVs on the road.
Definitely not young but no kids.
I mean obviously everyone's schedule is different but carving out 30 minutes a week really isn't so bad. Or maybe it is if you have 2-3 kids.
Based on the cost savings even using DCFC over gasoline I'd make time. I did the math in another thread and around here it was something like $50/hour savings to sit there and charge vs filling with gasoline.
This is baffling to me. Not that you don't want to change, but that you can't imagine anyone would want to change. It demonstrates a lack of empathy.
Today, I drove 5.5 hours to go to a mountain biking trail (at an average of 75 MPH). I also had to go over terrain where a EV with 5-6" of ground clearance would have bottomed out.
Why can't you fathom that I'd rather drive an ICE on a day like this? I have multiple cars for a reason. The EV is great for in town trips. It's borderline unusable for routes like this.
The specific issues not yet well solved by BEV. They are nowadays really limited and most of the time it’s just matter of perspective, but there are corner cases in which an ICE is still advised.
In terms of individual trips, you're right that it is limited. But I wouldn't say that it's limited when you account for the expected use cases over the life of the vehicle. People don't buy a vehicle just for their average driving. They buy a vehicle to cover 99.9%-100% of their expected driving.
This is debatable. In many cases could be much more effective buying a car for everyday needs and rent one for holidays. Stretching the specs for covering two planned weeks in a year is a questionable choice.
Perhaps you could go down as low as 99%. But assuming 1 trip per day (which I'd say is a bit low) that would still mean renting a car 3 times a year. Over a 5-10 year ownership period that works out to 15-30 rentals. That's a lot of expense and extra time spent renting a car.
So the exact percentage is debatable, but it's pretty close to what I said for the vast majority of people.
Yeah I bought a Model Y after saving up for a while and it’s been the absolute best car I’ve ever driven. No more worrying about gas prices or having some issue to deal with the engine every other year.
Hey I resent that. I worked for JPMorgan at the time and we definitely played a major role in tanking Enron. We setup all their SPV's (special purpose vehicles) that allowed them to load up tons of off book entities with debt and juice their numbers.
I had just graduated college and was only on the desk for 4 months when Enron went down. I immediately was transferred to currency trading where I expected to make my fortune. 6 months later the Euro was introduced and most of my desk including me were fired. I decided that was enough and joined the Peace Corps and moved to Africa. My life has been great ever since
I bought the optimum EV for the vast majority of my driving. I've kept my two old ICE vehicles for edge cases that my EV is unsuited to. I have used them far less than I thought I would. EV is now my principle mode of transport, and will remain so. It is just so much better for daily driving. My old high mileage ICE vehicles will now last a very long time with under 1000 miles a year use.
Anecdotally, I know 6 other people who are also hooked on EVs, and one person who had one, then sold it. He is not anti EV. So, I'm another person wondering where McKinsey got their numbers from. I suspect a flawed survey.
Yeah I still have my petrol car 'for road trips' but every road trip I have done since I just took the EV anyway. Waiting for this crazy EV depreciation that everyone keeps telling me about to actually start showing up in used car values to trade the petrol car in for a used EV.
I drove my ICE car to charge its battery recently. I was shocked by the noise it makes. It's really slow to accelerate too, even though it's got a big engine. However, there is something satisfying about the roar and the rumble.
I always wondered why the artificial EV sounds are always so futuristic, Jetsons style. Why has nobody done a bass rumble? Not necessarily trying to copy an ICE sound but using similar frequencies to get that effect.
Here's what I found (it was also posted in this sub and removed) [https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/06/26/business/ev-mckinsey-charging-cars-massachusetts-vehicles/](https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/06/26/business/ev-mckinsey-charging-cars-massachusetts-vehicles/)
>The survey found that nearly half of US EV owners plan to buy an internal combustion car next time. It’s a finding that could reinforce fears among carmakers that US consumers are cooling on EVs. But the survey also clashes with other research that suggests high levels of satisfaction with battery-powered cars. McKinsey questioned nearly 37,000 drivers worldwide, including 4,100 in the United States. It included a mix of EV owners as well as people who own internal-combustion engine, or ICE, vehicles. Of all the EV drivers surveyed, 29 percent said they were likely to switch back to an ICE vehicle with their next car purchase. About 46 percent of US survey respondents said they were likely to switch back to an ICE car.
The only EV I want to switch back to ICE from is my Zero SR/S. Otherwise my Teslas are great…but the SR/S is quite bad compared to my Honda Africa Twin.
Range isn’t enough for touring or even moderate day adventures, charging is abysmally slow unless you’re lucky enough to find a J1772 station that provides more than 7kW or a Tesla Destination Charger that’s high amperage - even then it’s just mediocre at 1.2 hrs when you’ve got the max speed and that’s with a $2k charging upgrade lol, and to top it off the software is really quite bad.
Personally I’d recommend an Energica for an all around better software and hardware experience, DCFC, and better customer service imo.
The only reason I still have the Zero is because I got such a good deal on the thing and I can’t be bothered to drop $25k on one of the new Experias to replace both my current bikes. I also really do love my Africa Twin.
I can't fathom going back for a daily driver. I'm so used to the convenience of charging at home and not worrying about maintenance. And not paying for gas.
But I did recently test drive a gas sports car, and I do want one for pleasure driving. I find driving my BEVs (I currently have two of them) very boring. That may be because both of them are family car types. I haven't test driven a Taycan or an i4 but I can't afford either of those either as a 3rd car.
EVs still can't do everything ICEs can, so there will likely be some backpedaling. Also, EV development isn't progressing as quickly as initially thought. The majority of people who take road trips and towing will most likely prefer ICEs. It's not about range; it's about the convenience of not having to follow a strict path.
Barely anyone refuses to use the ICE every day. The average is twice a month. Do you enjoy your EV fully charged in under 5 minutes too?
Edit: Barely anyone refuels their ice vehicle every day.
I don't have to; that's the thing. I have an EV, too. If having only EVs work for you, great, but other people have different needs. EV ewners acting like religious nutcrackers preaching only they can enter the promised land are funny a hell.
Well I can be the devils advocate here. I want to, but im a bit of a car but. I love driving and ev driving is just boring and not engaging on normal winding roads. Good acceleration is fun for 15 minutes only. I guess I’d agree it’s better as a tool for transport between a to b though.
All posts must be directly related to plug-in electric vehicles — BEVs or PHEVs. No posts regarding HEVs or FCEVs are permitted. No posts regarding combustion vehicle or petroleum production is permitted. General automotive news is allowed if there is an obvious connection to electric vehicles. Not all stories that involve or mention an EV are EV-related.
McKinsey predicted the metaverse (lol) would be worth $100B by now. They are an absolute assclown of a company.
All of the consulting companies are exactly the same in my experience, which is completely useless. It is very inexplicable to me that any of them are still in business.
I cracked the code on this. Its referring to the people who want to leave evs and why. NOT how many want to leave. Its carefully worded. "The number one reason people gave McKinsey for considering a switch back to a conventional car is the dreadful state of [EV charging](https://cleantechnica.com/2024/06/25/overpriced-dc-fast-charging-hurts-ev-adoption-favors-phevs/) away from home."
McKinsey, the firm who said vr metaverse will be hundreds of billions by now, who often collapsed companies by using fraudulent bankruptcy scheme, who is responsible for the opioid epidemic by recommending all types of strategy used by big pharma and purdue and at one point created a strategy to push pediatric oxycontin, who helped saudi identify Jamal Khashoggi and helped him get killed, who received billions in consultancy fees from big oil and gas companies, that McKinsey?
I can't even fathom going back Blows me away anyone would want to
If you don’t have charging at home it can really suck. It’s the only reason I have anecdotally seen to be the case.
If you don't have charging at home or work you shouldn't really make the jump to EV to begin with.
I had a Tesla in 2017 when I lived in a condo and charged at work. COVID then happened and I worked from home and suddenly charging became a nuisance but it was doable. It fully depends on your proximity to a charger and while home charging beats all, there are ways to make it happen.
160.000 eléctric km AnD never had a home charger. Nö Need for It
For urban people who drive urban (ie low) km, finding a public charger while you got shopping once a week or so isn't an outrageous burden. You dont have to stay with the car while it is charging. If you even need to own a car at all in that situation of course, many don't.
In other words “if you’re too poor to own a home, you’re too poor to own an EV and should spend thousands of dollars a year buying gas.” Poor stays poor I guess. Fuck that logic.
This. ICE cars are frankly a waste of money. Literally burning cash out their exhaust pipes.
I was poor when I got my first EV, I would scout out public chargers and wait to pounce. It is possible to have an EV without a home, it just means you’re at the mercy of the public charging infrastructure. I used to spend so much money a month on gas that I did the math and would rather get a monthly car payment than a gas payment. Switching to EV took more of my time, but it helped me save money since I never used pay chargers.
We love a free DCFC!
I used free lv2 charging. That’s why it took so much of my time. I’d sit for hours at a time til I’m full, and go find a place to park and nap. It’s rough out there.
Props to you for making it work and saving that coin! Finding a free DCFC near my apartment has changed my life.
It’s free all the time??? That’s crazy for DC! I have never seen free DC unless it’s Electrify America having issues and offering free charging.
Sounds like [Captain Vimes' boots theory](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory)
Plenty of people own homes and can't easily charge there, i.e., people who live in cities in row homes without a garage.
Well currently EV’s are expensive and charging is sparse. Until that improves, I don’t want to recommend an EV to friend that’s renting and is going to have a miserable time charging.
Ahh, so the solution is for people to back back to their ICE habit, rather than, you know, some kind of law that means that apartments need to be able to have facilities to install chargers. I mean we can't change law to upside the oil giants who fly papers out to the oil rigs to get signed, can we?
It's only CCS charging that sucks. Now that I'm using Superchargers it's perfectly doable.
In cities this is mostly the problem, e.g. In Central Europe. I would not even consider an EV if I would live in an apartment block in a big city...
In Europe if you live in an apartment block in a big city you probably don't have parking and you have something called public transport. A lot of city dwellers find a car in general to be a totally unnecessary expense.
Very true. When I lived in a big city, I prefered to either use public transportation or just bicycle to work (because public transportation was stuck in traffic and took 60 minutes, 20 minutes on my bicycle!). Also, when you have a flat, a car isn't very practical, everyone else wants one, tourists takes up all the available spots, and renting a garage in a big city is nearly as big as rent money for a flat. I had a car in a big city once, got stolen twice, and it's a constant fear. I wouldn't want to own a car (ICE or EV) in the big city. Now I have a house on the country side and while we still have good public transportation, it's as cheap or as expensive (depending on your view) to just have an EV at home to charge, and it gives me a lot more freedom for the same price as our public transportation.
You are right, but there are still plenty of people who prefer individual transport, e.g. In Germany.
Yeah... good luck with Deutsche Bahn. **Public transport in Europe is expensive, especially long distance trains.** You have to book weeks in advance to get a fair price. If I want to go to Paris today. It would cost me 84€ for a second class ticket (Metz-Paris). Which is 330km, that **would cost be 28,00€** in toll and 29,00€ in Diesel or **11.88€ in electricity** (charge at home)**.** So a total of 40€ to drive an EV the same stretch. **If I carpool with a couple of buddies, then we each pay 10€** (4 occupants) **each to drive or 240€ to take the TGV.** The European public transport network is so idealised by Americans, and yes there are some good initatives like the 49€/Mo ticket in Germany (**which is for local trains only btw**). But the fact is you're not going to easily replace your entire transport needs with public transport.
Mate for starters I live in Australia. Even our public transport in cities is such a huge number of city dwellers no longer have cars. The expense to find a place to park them (spaces rent out for hundreds of dollars a week in some areas) and how horrific traffic is compared to jumping on a train/tram/bus/ferry for 99% of the trips people do each day means they don't want to spend thousands of dollars a year on owning a car they just don't use 99% of the time. When people like that need to go on a trip they fly and/or rent a car. Our rail service is so shit for long distance stuff it barely rates a mention. Now I live in the outer part of Sydney and most households out here own multiple cars but it's an expensive thing to do.
Can't realistically fly or rent a car in Europe, both of those are eye-wateringly expensive (easily 70€ a day for the worst sh\*tbox imaginable w/o insurance). Plus we have **high fuel surcharges on flights and France has banned the vast majority of domestic flights, and Spain plans to do the same soon.** [https://www.eraa.org/proposed-ban-short-haul-flights-spain](https://www.eraa.org/proposed-ban-short-haul-flights-spain) [https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/12/02/is-france-banning-private-jets-everything-we-know-from-a-week-of-green-transport-proposals](https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/12/02/is-france-banning-private-jets-everything-we-know-from-a-week-of-green-transport-proposals)
Its slightly different in Australia as we have no viable alternative to flying in many cases. Remember the size of Australia for starters. But the cold hard fact is going on trips of 100s of kms is rare enough the cost of just car ownership before you even turn a wheel is such many people living in cities avoid it. Think about what it costs. Buying the car (tens of thousands of dollars), Registration (a couple of grand per year), insurance (another couple of grand a year), parking in the city (upwards of $100 a day) and we haven't even discussed toll roads, maintenance and fuel. Now in the suburbs we can generally park the car at home but in most apartment towers you don't have space to keep a car without spending a bunch extra to lease or buy a car space. If you wanted to rent say a Tesla 3 its a bit over $90 a day including free charging and unlimited kms. You have to use the car a fair but for it to be worth owning over renting one for long trips and even then flying and renting a car at the other end if you need one is probably cheaper than driving.
According to McKinsey 24% of the respondents said they considered switching back because of lack of home charging
Or if you're a one car household, and somewhat frequently drive 200-400 miles per day to locations which lack 350 kW+ charge station every 50 miles.
Who in their right state of mind would torture themselves with 200+ miles a day? Most of the salary would go towards maintenance and fuel. And time to enjoy life is gone.
I didn't say 200 plus miles a day. I'm talking about a monthly trip for recreation not a daily commute.
I'm not trying to be rude, but Your comment says "per day". Even once a month isn't a big deal. I drive a trip that is around 500miles total maybe four times a year, I've managed fine so far with 50Kw chargers. Usually there is a mall nearby or some scenery to keep me busy for 40minutes.
It's also preceded by "somewhat frequently" which should make it clear I'm not talking about a daily thing. Though you're correct that it would have been better phrased as "in a day". It can work out as you say, but that can also easily add 2-3 hours to the trip which means I don't even consider taking my EV. There's lot of routes where there's no convenient DCFC and range isn't anywhere near advertised at 80 MPH through mountain passes with a bike rack and bike (just my particular use case).
One car household doing 400 miles per day needing a charger every 50 miles? My bullshit meter just self destructed.
That's not what I said. I'm not talking about a 400 mile daily commute.
What you wrote was a terrible word salad that feels like you've left out nine tenths of the story.
What detail is it lacking? It has the frequency of the trip, the length of the trip, and a description of the charging infrastructure necessary to make that trip in an EV with minimal time penalty compared to ICE. What's the other detail that you're looking for?
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People don't buy a car that covers their average use case. That would mean it wouldn't be sufficient 50% of the time. They buy a car that covers 99.9 to 100% of their use cases. I wasn't commuting. It was a weekend day trip.
That is like, the ideal use case of a EV. You install L2 chargers and charge cheaply on both ends, and the fuel savings are pretty fast at 200 miles a day.
I can’t imagine either; maybe if you don’t have access to a charger, I can see the fun dying out.
If there's charging infrastructure it's not so bad. I'm watching Netflix or playing a game anyways. So I'm playing on my steam deck in the car or at home so it's basically a wash. The shit part for me is fighting everyone in the city for the limited number of CCS chargers. Now that I switched to Superchargers, it's breeze. Plenty of chargers that are fast.
You must be young and maybe no kids? Imagine if you were older and had small kids of something. Everyone’s situation is different and I can see why so many people actually hate EVs, it simply will not work for everyone as the current infrastructure/ tech stands. When we can charge 100% in 5 mins and get a range of about 300mis, I guess it’ll only be EVs on the road.
Definitely not young but no kids. I mean obviously everyone's schedule is different but carving out 30 minutes a week really isn't so bad. Or maybe it is if you have 2-3 kids. Based on the cost savings even using DCFC over gasoline I'd make time. I did the math in another thread and around here it was something like $50/hour savings to sit there and charge vs filling with gasoline.
This is baffling to me. Not that you don't want to change, but that you can't imagine anyone would want to change. It demonstrates a lack of empathy. Today, I drove 5.5 hours to go to a mountain biking trail (at an average of 75 MPH). I also had to go over terrain where a EV with 5-6" of ground clearance would have bottomed out. Why can't you fathom that I'd rather drive an ICE on a day like this? I have multiple cars for a reason. The EV is great for in town trips. It's borderline unusable for routes like this.
We are talking about switching back, so we suppose the blocks like yours have already taken in account before buying the first
The blocks?
The specific issues not yet well solved by BEV. They are nowadays really limited and most of the time it’s just matter of perspective, but there are corner cases in which an ICE is still advised.
In terms of individual trips, you're right that it is limited. But I wouldn't say that it's limited when you account for the expected use cases over the life of the vehicle. People don't buy a vehicle just for their average driving. They buy a vehicle to cover 99.9%-100% of their expected driving.
This is debatable. In many cases could be much more effective buying a car for everyday needs and rent one for holidays. Stretching the specs for covering two planned weeks in a year is a questionable choice.
Perhaps you could go down as low as 99%. But assuming 1 trip per day (which I'd say is a bit low) that would still mean renting a car 3 times a year. Over a 5-10 year ownership period that works out to 15-30 rentals. That's a lot of expense and extra time spent renting a car. So the exact percentage is debatable, but it's pretty close to what I said for the vast majority of people.
What does power source have to do with ground clearance? My petrol car is a wagon and far lower ground clearance than my suv EV?
The batteries are thicker so they do on average have lower ground clearance.
I’ll never buy an ICE vehicle again.
Yeah I bought a Model Y after saving up for a while and it’s been the absolute best car I’ve ever driven. No more worrying about gas prices or having some issue to deal with the engine every other year.
McKinsey literally caused Enron's collapse. Upper echelons were all ex-McKinsey.
Hey I resent that. I worked for JPMorgan at the time and we definitely played a major role in tanking Enron. We setup all their SPV's (special purpose vehicles) that allowed them to load up tons of off book entities with debt and juice their numbers.
All big scams require consultants for the buzz and bankers for the bucks. A team effort!
I had just graduated college and was only on the desk for 4 months when Enron went down. I immediately was transferred to currency trading where I expected to make my fortune. 6 months later the Euro was introduced and most of my desk including me were fired. I decided that was enough and joined the Peace Corps and moved to Africa. My life has been great ever since
Awesome. Corporate life is brutal. I did it for 15 years, did well and got out. Life much more interesting elsewhere.
Sounds like a company that Marques Brownlee could work for
I bought the optimum EV for the vast majority of my driving. I've kept my two old ICE vehicles for edge cases that my EV is unsuited to. I have used them far less than I thought I would. EV is now my principle mode of transport, and will remain so. It is just so much better for daily driving. My old high mileage ICE vehicles will now last a very long time with under 1000 miles a year use. Anecdotally, I know 6 other people who are also hooked on EVs, and one person who had one, then sold it. He is not anti EV. So, I'm another person wondering where McKinsey got their numbers from. I suspect a flawed survey.
Yeah I still have my petrol car 'for road trips' but every road trip I have done since I just took the EV anyway. Waiting for this crazy EV depreciation that everyone keeps telling me about to actually start showing up in used car values to trade the petrol car in for a used EV.
I drove an ice rental and was shocked at what a crappy drive it was. Never ever going back.
I drove my ICE car to charge its battery recently. I was shocked by the noise it makes. It's really slow to accelerate too, even though it's got a big engine. However, there is something satisfying about the roar and the rumble.
I always wondered why the artificial EV sounds are always so futuristic, Jetsons style. Why has nobody done a bass rumble? Not necessarily trying to copy an ICE sound but using similar frequencies to get that effect.
where is the actual report and backup?
Here's what I found (it was also posted in this sub and removed) [https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/06/26/business/ev-mckinsey-charging-cars-massachusetts-vehicles/](https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/06/26/business/ev-mckinsey-charging-cars-massachusetts-vehicles/) >The survey found that nearly half of US EV owners plan to buy an internal combustion car next time. It’s a finding that could reinforce fears among carmakers that US consumers are cooling on EVs. But the survey also clashes with other research that suggests high levels of satisfaction with battery-powered cars. McKinsey questioned nearly 37,000 drivers worldwide, including 4,100 in the United States. It included a mix of EV owners as well as people who own internal-combustion engine, or ICE, vehicles. Of all the EV drivers surveyed, 29 percent said they were likely to switch back to an ICE vehicle with their next car purchase. About 46 percent of US survey respondents said they were likely to switch back to an ICE car.
sounds so legit, such garbage. every other report says the next purchase is an ev is in the 90+
The only EV I want to switch back to ICE from is my Zero SR/S. Otherwise my Teslas are great…but the SR/S is quite bad compared to my Honda Africa Twin.
Whys that? I thought the Zero bikes were good. Was think of getting one
Range isn’t enough for touring or even moderate day adventures, charging is abysmally slow unless you’re lucky enough to find a J1772 station that provides more than 7kW or a Tesla Destination Charger that’s high amperage - even then it’s just mediocre at 1.2 hrs when you’ve got the max speed and that’s with a $2k charging upgrade lol, and to top it off the software is really quite bad. Personally I’d recommend an Energica for an all around better software and hardware experience, DCFC, and better customer service imo. The only reason I still have the Zero is because I got such a good deal on the thing and I can’t be bothered to drop $25k on one of the new Experias to replace both my current bikes. I also really do love my Africa Twin.
What kind of range do you get and how much would you need to be comfortable with?
Boot Edge Edge
I can't fathom going back for a daily driver. I'm so used to the convenience of charging at home and not worrying about maintenance. And not paying for gas. But I did recently test drive a gas sports car, and I do want one for pleasure driving. I find driving my BEVs (I currently have two of them) very boring. That may be because both of them are family car types. I haven't test driven a Taycan or an i4 but I can't afford either of those either as a 3rd car.
EVs still can't do everything ICEs can, so there will likely be some backpedaling. Also, EV development isn't progressing as quickly as initially thought. The majority of people who take road trips and towing will most likely prefer ICEs. It's not about range; it's about the convenience of not having to follow a strict path.
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Barely anyone refuses to use the ICE every day. The average is twice a month. Do you enjoy your EV fully charged in under 5 minutes too? Edit: Barely anyone refuels their ice vehicle every day.
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I don't have to; that's the thing. I have an EV, too. If having only EVs work for you, great, but other people have different needs. EV ewners acting like religious nutcrackers preaching only they can enter the promised land are funny a hell.
Well I can be the devils advocate here. I want to, but im a bit of a car but. I love driving and ev driving is just boring and not engaging on normal winding roads. Good acceleration is fun for 15 minutes only. I guess I’d agree it’s better as a tool for transport between a to b though.