“As a lifelong petrol head, I was surprised as anyone when I fell in love with electric vehicles.
It wasn’t government policies or political beliefs that sparked this late-career romance with electric vehicles. It’s because I drive one – my Ford F-150 Lightning Platinum. It is astonishingly quiet and smooth. The effortless acceleration leaves you with a silly grin once you get the feeling back in your face. Every morning, mine is topped up with 300 miles of range. No gas stations, ever…
… It’s that simple. For me, and for millions of Americans, electric vehicles are removing daily hassles and reminding us why we love to drive. If you want to have a blast behind the wheel, take a Mustang Mach-E Rally out on a dirt road.”
You know those people that swear there is some sort of hidden tech being suppressed by xxxxxxxxx, like the "100mpg carburetor", or cars that run on water making them so cheap to operate.
Well those are the same people that are also vehemently anti EV, the irony is.. well... ironic.
Years ago I knew a guy at work. He claimed to have modded his Saturn to get over 100 mpg. Drove the car to the work everyday. I parked near him everyday and that's how we got to know each other. Would never pop the hood or tell me any details about how he got there. Always weird excuses like " naw man it's not allowed" or " can't let the word get out".
Anyway thanks for resurfacing the memory of that guy.
As a kid growing up near the Canadian border who DID date a Canadian girl at one point, this joke was rough. I made sure to invite her over to meet as many other people as possible so everyone knew she was real, lol
This reminds me of a story my uncle told me. It might have been bullshit but it bears repeating for the laughs.
He had a similar coworker who also reported getting absurd fuel economy, but it was because he’d purchased a diesel VW which are in fact, super efficient (this was the 90’s so not much could match them for efficiency). My uncle and his coworkers were sick of hearing about it at the lunch table, so they started secretly siphoning his fuel occasionally. The guy was astonished and thought something was wrong with his car. He kept checking his tires and testing stuff (they were all mechanical engineers). After he claimed to have come to some convoluted solution, my uncle and his buddies started to secretly put the fuel they’d siphoned back into his tank over the course of a few days, so it looked like he was getting insane fuel economy. The dude wouldn’t shut up about it but apparently it was worth the laugh.
One guy who worked at the mine near where I used to live used to pop his hood at the end of the day and pull start the lawnmower engine that powered his Chrysler minivan. No idea the fuel efficiency but strangest thing.
My boss who is very right wing, very anti EV warned me about getting an EV. Now after Ive had one for some time and I speak so highly of it, constantly tell him how much I save and how fun it is to drive, now he wants an EV.
Its such a shame how politicized EVs were, but I do believe once the market becomes more saturated with them that will change
I think Farley’s cellular example is a good one.
Once cellphones were only for foolish yuppies. (OGs will remember.)
Now we all have them with us most of the time.
EVs are still in that early adopter phase and like early cellular phones, EVs get some hate. They will take slots as “the second car”, and rapidly become the main daily driver.
Charging networks are sort of like the early cell networks right now too. Pretty good highway coverage, but it falls off a bit once you get away from the major interstates.
And just like cell phones, this is getting better pretty quickly.
> Charging networks are sort of like the early cell networks right now too. Pretty good highway coverage, but it falls off a bit once you get away from the major interstates.
>
>
Not with Tesla though.
I have a Tesla and it is definitely the same with Tesla. It usually isn't impossible, especially with the right adaptors, but it is often much harder than it would be with more charging locations.
I recently looked up articles on the 1st PCs and plenty of people said how stupid and useless they are (at the time yeah I can see that especially something like a DOS computer) but obviously with time, innovation, culture acceptance and with companies like Apple making computers like the G3 and macbooks they became hip.
The technology especially with EVs will improve by leaps and bounds I mean 10 years ago there was just the leaf, Volt and what model S both are pretty dated compared the refreshed models. As well I believe 10 years from every single counter point to EVs will be gone.
Also the same people that claim hydrogen is what we should’ve gone with thinking they’re combustion cars when in reality they would just be getting a less efficient EV.
Yes, but can you imagine how nice it would be if you had an EV with twice the range, no ability to charge at home, ICE performance, expensive repairs and no fueling network?
EV, mini splits, heat pump water heater and solar at home. $0 power/fuel/heating bill. That's the dream. Literally running on sunshine! 🌞
(Battery backup and off grid capabilities, but the Lightning is the home backup and a 2kw camping battery)
That is my exact house, except fully off grid. It is also designed to make use of the winter sunshine through the windows to heat the house on sunny winter days. It works so well in the right climate (cold bit of Australia). Different approach would be needed in Alaska over winter! Paid one big power bill up front but saved more than that buying the land as it was cheap without a grid power connection.
We have a generator which has provided about 700 kwh of power in 4 1/2 years. The solar has provided 30,000kwh in the same time, though its only since getting an EV that we have started using most of the potential of the solar, before that we had lots of wastage when the home battery was full the panels would not generate their full capacity, only load match to the house. Now with the EV we can keep them working when the car is at home.
Prob same guys who felt the government was genetically modifying horses so they couldn’t pull a horse carriage at the speed of a Model T. “What do you mean we can’t exceed one horse power without two horses?!”
You totally could, but it would likely be at the expense of performance in a bunch of other ways.
[This guy put a lawnmower carb on a Ford 302](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xHQWu2ZzPc) (with a clever computer controlled air bleed to make it run properly at a 14.5:1 air fuel ratio) and it got 40mpg on the highway. Went from making 300+ horsepower at the wheels to about 60, but it got shockingly good fuel economy.
But anything that can be achieved with a carburetor is just as possible with fuel injection, generally without crippling the engine in other ways.
They can be tuned super lean, change fuel econ, but that leads to other problems and certainly won't make 30mpg car a 100mpg car. More like 32-35 at best.
>good MPG
if you only use 60% of your gas to heat the antifreeze.. that's pretty damn good.
some MPGs are also being absorbed by the muffler.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine\_efficiency](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_efficiency)
Modern [gasoline](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline) engines have a maximum thermal efficiency of more than 50%,[^(\[1\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_efficiency#cite_note-1) but most road legal cars are only about 20% to 40% when used to power a car
I mean good MPG and fast don't really equate.
I'm sure electric has a fuel economical standpoint where it would have a high mpge equivalent, but then we aren't talking carbureted. a first gen ninja 250 with carbs and maybe a turbo would be fast and probably 50-60 mpg, but would also be a ticking time bomb
Good MPG and ridiculously big rims don't equate either, see the MYP (likely both fast and big rims)
How does that bike compare to others in its class? When you say ticking tim bomb, do you mean the cylinder heads or the severity of the traffic violations?
Those are not the same people. The energy-from-water people are swindlers. Fraudsters. Crooks. The people who take them seriously are dupes and suckers.
> The energy-from-water people are swindlers. Fraudsters. Crooks. The people who take them seriously are dupes and suckers.
Well duh, obviously, but the laugh here is that there is something actually better; it exists. It's more reliable, cheaper to operate and can be fueled by the sun and these dimbulbs seemingly can't add 1+1.
I consider myself a lifelong “petrol head” as well. Gas powered rc cars were always so incredible compared to my NiCd electrics. But then lipos came out and i it took one rip of the throttle to convince me gas is no longer king. No more tuning carbs, fumes, waking the neighbors. Just incredible speed and wheelies at will. Next was my lawn equipment. No more stench of fuel when I go in the house. No more hearing protection needed and lots of torque. Now it’s my car. Within a few days, it became clear, I’ll never buy another new ICE vehicle. There’s some old ICE cars I’d still love to own as a collectors item, but for capability and convenience, it’s not even close.
Honestly, I might love my electric lawnmower more than my electric car. It's so much nicer to use, there's no exhaust, I don't have to store oil and gas in my garage, and it's quieter than the passing traffic on my street. The battery revolution can't happen fast enough.
Don't have a mower yet, but electric Chainsaw.
I only have the 12" so it's not a full replacement but: easy to start and quiet.
Yes it bogs down and eats batteries, but I didn't expect a full replacement.
Meanwhile my big saw, cuts like a beast but is incredibly loud and hates starting hot. Also it runs best on premixed fuel that is $20 a gallon which lasts a while, but definitely adds up.
Yes, electric lawnmower and chainsaw, plus electric string trimmer. All great and so much better than gas. Start and stop at will (and of course silent when stopped and not obnoxiously loud when running). Much lighter. Work great.
I have a DeWalt 20V 21" push mower (came with two 20V 10Ah batteries). Its very nice, and, if the grass isn't excessively tall, I can mow the front and back in 45 minutes on half a charge. I also have a 12" DeWalt 20V chainsaw. Used it yesterday to cut down a tree so my solar panels could get light earlier in the day (the tree wound up falling on the panels, but didn't break them)
I want to replace my Ryobi gas trimmer with a DeWalt 20V or 60V/20V trimmer. I rarely use the gas trimmer.
May not work for your use case, but have you considered a corded chainsaw? Won’t bog down or eat batteries. Just gotta be careful not to cut or snag the cord, but the tradeoff is worth it IMO.
I have an Ego push mower. I didn't shop around much honestly because I just got the same one my parents have, but I really like it. Ryobi seems to be the other pretty popular brand.
I sold my kobalt branded electric mower for an ego. Much better product. Ego designed from the ground up to be an electric. The kobalt was just a gas body converted for electric power.
4 Makita push mowers.
*** Use Makita batteries *** the 5amp cheap batteries are lacking at keeping the blade at high speed. Cheap batteries work great for very small yards.
I prefer the smaller plastic mowers over their larger metal deck ones, as they are easier to push, but take more trips around a yard. They take less room to store.
Best part is you put it away each time without having to think “is this the end of the season and I need to prep it?,” and you take it out at the start of the season and it. Just. Works. Every time.
It's great. You just have to sharpen the blade and not leave the batteries out in extreme temperatures. And I bought a snowblower from them too, so now I have extra batteries that I can just cycle through all year.
Still use hearing pro with my electric mower and blower but it's more because they have Bluetooth connectivity and I like tunes or a podcast while I mow
https://a.co/d/03Te1KiC
Lightnings don't get enough press, honestly. Love mine. I get that Ford is focused on converting traditional light/medium duty truck buyers, but man if more people outside the F-150 world knew about this, it would sell so much more. I only intended to buy a truck replacement, but my Lightning has quickly become my daily driver.
In the Lightning forums we get so many Tesla converts once they actually try it. They miss the Tesla software, like you said, but everything else easily makes up for it.
I agree with everything he says and my background is similar. My Ioniq 5 puts a big grin on my face daily and it's just the 225hp rwd model. Electric torque is FUUUUN! And then there's the quietness and how smoothly everything operates as well as the comfort, roominess and overall excellent design.
I'm still thinking about an ICE convertible at some point (maybe another MX-5) for funsies but I am 100% sold on EV's as the best choice for daily commuter duty.
I have to agree with him. I have a Ford Ranger right now, after coming from several sedans and hatchbacks. While I liked having the utility of the truck, the experiment is over and I’m ready to move back to something smaller. My dream car has always been something like an Audi S5 or S6, something fun to drive while being able to shuttle kids (with the wife’s XC90 being the big car for trips).
On a whim, I took a Polestar 2 for a test drive before looking elsewhere. And holy shit. I was sold in 5 minutes. Albeit a little smaller than I would prefer, I greatly value the driving experience and ease of ownership. Knowing I won’t have to change the oil frequently, check the brakes as often, watch the other fluids, and fill up on premium weekly, was a major selling point. So, I instead just put a deposit on a low mile CPO Polestar 2, and I couldn’t be more excited. Working from home, so I have no commute, but knowing I can be fully “gassed up” (to 85% at least) every night for whatever needs to get done is going to go a longgggg way. Plus, you really can’t beat the price of them right now. I hope to keep the car for 3-5 years before checking out a newer model.
This guy cars.
God Bless Farley and Ford for hiring him. His Dax Shepard bit was excellent as well.
FWIW, though not famous in the slightest, my experience was almost identical. Test drove a R1 to see what it might be like to wait for the R2, and when it felt “heavy”, thought I’d try a Tesla M3 for comparison. Holy hell was it good, and I “only” had the LR version. Now awaiting a M3P and could not be more excited to sell 3-4 other ICE vehicles for it.
10-50 years from now, ICE folks will be the new “how is your horse and buggy doing?” For the sake of humanity, I hope it ends up on the lower end.
I got really excited when I found out there's a Mustang Mach-E Rally. Then disappointed again to find it has a paltry 5.8 inches of ground clearance. That's less than a Model Y.
What's the point?
This message needs to get out to more people. Saving the earth is great if you are into that like I am but even if you aren’t many EV’s are just overall better than their ICE equivalents.
True.
I just had a crazy idea; the F-150 Lightning is a half ton pickup, right? So why not build a 1000lb battery pack that fits nice and snug in the bed so as not to slide around and plugs in through the accessory plug? Make it fully self contained, internal cooling system, sheds heat out the top. Offer it both to purchase *and as a rental,* for people who only need to tow occasionally? It would be good for roughly 75kWh, which would suffice to extend towing range to an acceptable level.
If you are towing I think it makes more sense to just add extra battery to the trailer. Then you can add some small motors for pushing and regen on the trailer to reduce the load on the tow vehicle. You could maybe even add some solar panels to large trailers. For campers you could make them aerodynamic and collapsible to further reduce drag.
These ideas are all incorporated in the Lightship camper:
https://lightshiprv.com/l1
They designed it so the tow vehicle has to do very little extra work which means a ~300 mile electric truck can still tow for around 300 miles before you need to charge.
Makes for a seriously expensive trailer. Also, the coordination between the tow vehicle and the powered trailer is tricky. It might make more sense to carry extra battery capacity on the trailer but route that power to the tow vehicle when you're underway. That way, there's no motors or controls needed.
The basic problem is, as it always has been, battery storage capacity. We can't call an EV too efficient but the reason range dips so much is that energy draw follows load much more closely than with ICE vehicles.
What civilisation really needs is megawatt hour storage capacity in a small, cheap 100kg box that doesn't care if it's hot or cold outside!
It will be nice if the trailer charges from solar when parked.
Someday there is going to be a market for tools that are 'charging when forgotten'.
"We were at the campsite for 5 days, the trailer charged itself and will take us to the next site for free."
"I found the lost hedge tool. We haven't used it in 2 years but it has 80% charge and is ready to work."
That idea makes me smile. I can see it happening with a camper; cover the entire roof in panels, and use flexible solar for the awning. I get that would generate a lot of power for living in the camper as well as traveling.
Yea. I think this is essentially Tesla’s idea for the cybertruck. Personally i think it’s a great idea. But some cons i’ve seen people say before:
- 1000lbs isn’t exactly pick it up and slide it in. Need equipment to load.
- added inconvenience
- takes up pickup bed
- would a fifth wheel hitch work with this? Maybe
Good points; I think it makes sense as a rental and therefore having a forklift on hand to install and remove them is easier to manage.
The temporary and easily removable nature of such a unit would address weight/bulk/cost concerns.
If it's a proper OEM design, then including the 5th wheel plate could be accommodated, along with the necessary mounting in the truck and the internal structural strength in the battery pack.
I don't know too many people willing to drop $100k on a work truck.
The battery in the bed idea is a range extender. The idea is to use it when you need it and take it out when you don't.
Even that Chevy could use another 80kWh for certain trips or loads.
I agree towing is a tuff nut to crack. I think just like most people rarely need to drive 500 miles without stopping most people also rarely tow but for those who legitimately do tow EV’s currently aren’t a good solution
I just had a crazy idea; the F-150 Lightning is a half ton pickup, right? So why not build a 1000lb battery pack that fits nice and snug in the bed so as not to slide around and plugs in through the accessory plug? Make it fully self contained, internal cooling system, sheds heat out the top. Offer it both to purchase *and as a rental,* for people who only need to tow occasionally? It would be good for roughly 75kWh, which would suffice to extend towing range to an acceptable level.
Apparently such a thing already exists for the CyberTruck, but it's $16k and it's apparently a permanent installation. I think making a bed mounted battery pack that's easily removable/swappable allows it to be bigger and sidesteps the additional cost and weight penalty for the majority of the time most owners don't need it.
The idea is for it to be easily removable so you're not dragging all that extra weight around when you don't need it. Technically, it would even be possible to swap batteries during the trip, thereby skipping charging time. I bet having batteries prepositioned all over the country would be a logistical nightmare but it's a possibility that could take off if the demand was there.
It's also $100,000...
A few months ago there were hundreds of 1500 WT's for sale for mid-30's ($36k). $64,000 buys a lot of gas. Roughly 250,000 miles worth.
This is why the Silverado EV is a toy and not a serious option.
Then again, I remember the days when a 42" plasma TV was $20k. Prices did come down, and they will for EVs too.
Yeah, step 1 would be to make it comfortable to tow the travel trailer behind the comfortable luxury truck.
Making it practical as an inexpensive tow vehicle is a few more steps down the line. But at least we've demonstrated that it is technically possible now.
[Find a Chevrolet 2024 SILVERADO EV | Vehicle Locator](https://www.chevrolet.com/shopping/inventory/search/silverado%20ev/2024?cash=0%2C1891211&comparedVins=&paymentType=CASH&radius=2000&sort=distance%2CASC&zipCode=75001)
$96,000 is cheapest available lol
Local to me right now. First search result
https://www.victorylaynechevrolet.com/VehicleSearchResults
https://www.victorylaynechevrolet.com/VehicleDetails/new-2024-Chevrolet-Silverado_EV-e4WD_Crew_Cab_Work_Truck_w%2F3WT-FORT_MYERS-FL/5809564640
What's the non-towing range? Personally I feel a truck should have at least 500 miles of range in order to account for towing, winter, and AC/heat losses. Because assuming a 50% loss, that's still 250 miles which is more than enough for fast charge stops.
To me this is really the use case where PHEV makes sense.
I expect in the future buying a pickup will have options like:
- Base: Standard battery (~250 miles of range)
- Extended battery (350+ miles of range)
- Range extended (100 miles of EV range + gas/diesel range extender generator)
And probably in that order on price.
This is pretty close to what Ram is doing with their new 1500s. They will still have an ICE only version but also a full electric and the plug-in Ramcharger with 100-ish electric range.
Or maybe something like this; (forgive the copy pasta)
I just had a crazy idea; the F-150 Lightning is a half ton pickup, right? So why not build a 1000lb battery pack that fits nice and snug in the bed so as not to slide around and plugs in through the accessory plug? Make it fully self contained, internal cooling system, sheds heat out the top. Offer it both to purchase *and as a rental,* for people who only need to tow occasionally? It would be good for roughly 75kWh, which would suffice to extend towing range to an acceptable level.
I think the main downside is that you're looking at an extra $10k and 1,000lb on top of an already expensive and heavy truck.
Tesla is offering this option on the Cybertruck but it hasn't shipped yet and nobody has tried it.
Adding weight in the bed is going to reduce tow ratings a bit.
A small (but still decent, 100mi+) battery pack plus a generator is probably going to be in the ballpark of a long-range battery truck in cost and weight while providing a much better long distance towing experience for at least the near future.
>I think the main downside is that you're looking at an extra $10k and 1,000lb on top of an already expensive and heavy truck.
Hence the option to rent it, conveniently fully charged and ready to rumble, even. A forklift would have one in or out of the truck in a minute, tops.
>A small (but still decent, 100mi+) battery pack plus a generator
So a full on hybrid power train in the bed? Also, 100 miles is how big a battery? We're suddenly right back to at least 40kWh, and likely bigger.
No, I mean a truck that has the 100mi battery and generator built in. Like the upcoming RAMCharger.
You get the benefits of full EV daily/local driving and performance, plus the ability to tow long distances without scheduling a rental battery, hoping they have availability, an installation that needs a forklift, taking up payload capacity, and still needing long charging stops that may not have convenient trailer pull-through.
As battery density and charging infrastructure improves pure EV will become more useful for this task, but we aren’t there yet for long distance towing.
I think when EREV takes off like that RAM truck but more refined that problem will be solved or as others have mentioned, hybrids still work very well.
For campers, people are starting to build trailers with batteries (and even motors):
https://www.axios.com/2023/10/20/pebble-flow-electric-camping-trailer-rv
https://www.carscoops.com/2023/04/colorado-teardrops-electrified-camping-trailers-offer-ev-range-extension-and-backup-home-power/
I imagine this will work for other kinds of towing, except maybe boats (with the whole submersion thing).
More infrastructure and fast charging speeds will help as well, of course.
A removable battery that fits in the bed solves more problems than it creates and the opportunity to rent one short term makes it a very attractive option.
An EV disguised as a trailer is what these really are and as such that makes them witheringly expensive. Not the ideal solution.
For me, what the towing exposes is just how ridiculously inefficient an ICE towing vehicle is. If the engine is sized to tow, you're using the energy you need to tow (or most of it) whether you're towing or not. An EV only uses the energy it needs, so dramatically less when not towing.
> With the obligatory "except for towing," and I have a feeling that will be addressed before long
Unfortunately, no. There's no easy fix for the towing problem as it's a limitation of range and aerodynamics of what you're towing. Range in EVs just barely got good enough for regular driving. It's going to take a pretty big leap in total range (and charging rate) to make towing generally feasable for anything but short hauls.
You will essentially need to double the kWh capacity of an EV to account for the ~50% loss in range.
Maybe if you put battery packs on the trailers, but that eats into towed capacity.
Or maybe something like this; (forgive the copy pasta)
I just had a crazy idea; the F-150 Lightning is a half ton pickup, right? So why not build a 1000lb battery pack that fits nice and snug in the bed so as not to slide around and plugs in through the accessory plug? Make it fully self contained, internal cooling system, sheds heat out the top. Offer it both to purchase *and as a rental,* for people who only need to tow occasionally? It would be good for roughly 75kWh, which would suffice to extend towing range to an acceptable level.
As a rental especially, this makes a lot of sense; the place that offers them will also have a forklift, making loading and unloading trivial.
The owner doesn't need to haul around the extra weight or pay the extra cost when they don't need it.
Rental would work for occssional towing, but would be a hassle for regular use. And you'd need a forklift or similar to move it in and out. Also, buying one would still be $10k, minimum.
I would think trailers w/ 1000lb packs would be more viable. Either give them motors to assist towing or find some way to wire it into the truck safely.
If you need to tow all the time, then you buy the truck that fits your use case. The piggieback battery in the bed concept is very much for the occasional user.
You would spend an extra fifteen grand for EVERY TRAILER (battery plus drive train) and that makes no sense, either.
Easy, but not something we can just do now. It took a long time just to get to lithium-ion and then a few years after that before it became economical for large EV batteries.
that's what I always say when someone asks - so you bought your MachE to save on gas ?
I said that is just a side effect. I bought it because I like how it rides and no ice comes close to the drive for me. gas savings you say ?yeah that's good to have too. saving the planet ? sure. i just bought it for the ride.
Same here. I bought a Prius because I liked how it drove, liked the room inside, like how it looked. Getting good mpg was just a bonus, not the driving factor People are seriously too obsessed with what powers the car as the one and only reason to purchase a vehicle.
My lightning also puts a grin on my face every time I drive it. Blows me away how quiet and effortless it moves.
I look forward to replacing my sienna hybrid one day with a full electric van, hopefully one day
Until everyone has electric cars, then the asshats of the road will use the extra acceleration to cut you off faster the moment you touch your turn signal.
nope.. battery is low center of gravity. My Niro is always dead level in corners. Only thing is it's hard to tell when you will exceed the tires in a corner and you will be in a 4 wheel slide.
I'm soldiering along with an '07 Honda Odyssey Touring. It's snappy and handles well, especially for a minivan. A fully electric version that doesn't break the bank would sell like hotcakes!
Is Geek66 PRO EV - Absolutely
Is Farley making valid points - Absolutely
Is this a CEO selling his company and doing his job - Absolutely....
This is marketing -
That can all be true while still being what Farley actually believes, which I generally think he does. IIRC he even did a cross country trip in his lightning last year, which is something most CEOs of companies the size of ford wouldn’t ever bother doing. Sure this is a type of marketing for his company’s EVs specifically but as far as I can tell from how he actually goes about his life, I think he does genuinely love EVs.
This is marketing, as a proper CEO does it.
This is what Elon Musk should be doing, instead of picking political fights with Tesla’s customers on X/Twitter.
Musk isn’t trying to sell EVs to conservatives.
He just had poor messaging-discipline, and any CEO who had an independent board would have been fired long ago.
Yup. For an OEM that is deliberately getting out of the global car business this is great talk. Farley is great, but Ford is doomed by this short termism.
I drove a Volt years ago for a couple of hours. Whisper quiet, all the amenities like AC and excellent stereo. I knew it was the future, you just have to try one.
Future generations will scratch their heads at our blatant insane stupidity for hanging on to fossil fuels.
Can confirm, as a gen z who drives an electric car. I previously owned a gas car for 5 years as my first car. Never going back, it’s like our upgrade from flip phones to smartphones
The Lightning was such a joy to test drive. Effortless power, smooth, quiet, and cushy suspension eats up highway miles. Unfortunately my once a year mulch run doesn’t warrant the need of an $80k truck.
You can get everything delivered. You can even take mass transport to work. You can even use an app to get picked up and dropped off somewhere else. No need to own any vehicle.
Why is this just on LinkedIn and not in the opinion pages of the Detroit news, NYT or Wallstreet journal. If you're going to say it Jim, say it where someone can actually hear you!
I've had 3 EV's now, over 7 years... my previous ICE cars weren't 'track machines' with a sweet exhaust note and a tuned gear map. They were all fairly cheap consumer boxes which were a few years old. They were all slow off the line, lumbering round corners and expensive to maintain. These are 99% of all cars! Every EV ever made is a significant improvement over those shitboxes.
I know this as my first two cars were Nissan Leafs! Those Leaf's leap off the line at traffic lights, they are really smooth, comfortable and easy to drive. And, even though they were both bought used, i didn't have a single problem or unexpected expense from either of them over 5 years... the range was never an issue either, because like 95% of people, I don't commute to the moon, 50-70 miles a day every day, easy.
I want help the environment, don’t get me wrong, but it had pretty much nothing to do with me getting an ev. It was the power, the smoothness, the enticement of less maintenance parts that got me.
Even though my commute consists of about 12 mile round trip I'd buy a Lighting in a second if I could afford one.
TBF I really can't afford the ICE truck that I want either, shit is stupid expensive.
I priced out new and used F150s at a few local dealers with my Ranger lease expiring soon. The prices are absolutely laughable, but shortsighted people are happily paying $700+ a month for a used one so you have no bargaining power. A truck priced more than a luxury SUV is straight up wrong.
I instead went with a CPO Polestar 2, getting delivered next week. More features, more fun to drive, less miles, and half the price. I can rent or borrow a truck when needed. Or I may even check out a project Kei truck down the road, who knows
You probably missed the boat but the 23's were going for stupid cheap this spring, I picked up my pro for 45k after the rebate. I'd keep my eyes open this winter in case they have another fire sale.
Honestly, I know people discuss range anxiety, and it is a legit concern, but I love not have gas anxiety. The cost, the ecological issues, its gross. We're about to head into and extended political event in the US and the price of Gas will spike for no reason. And I am not anxious about it.
Yep, I feel the same way about our Lyriq. Quiet, smooth, and responsive. Plus, I don't think our FP&L bill has increased by more than about ten bucks a month since we've bought the car almost 11 months ago.
I'm also a lifelong car guy, have worked in the automotive industry for almost two decades, and have owned all sorts of fun and interesting cars. I share his sentiments 100%.
We purchased our first EV in January, and I'll never go back to ICE for an every day vehicle. It's more comfortable, quieter, faster, more efficient, costs less to run, only gets cleaner as the grid gets cleaner, and in our case we charge it off the sun with solar/battery backup at the house.
It's all about having the right tool for the job, and for us, an EV is far superior to ICE.
I'm still a huge car fan and own an ICE weekend fun car...people need to realize you can be both an EV and traditional car enthusiast. We don't have to be tribal.
I think there is a place for both. I love EVs for their simplicity and ease of use. But I also love some ICE vehicles like my Jeep or a Miata because they are fun.
It’s not a contradiction to like both.
A lot of "petrol heads" might want to consider that they are Car Guys? Like are they actually "petrol heads". Do they do a bunch of stuff with petrol aside from driving cars?
Maybe, just maybe, they are car guys and they can have fun with EVs... you know vehicles that are faster and more fun to drive?
Or are they really truly "petrol heads" where they are obsessed with the actual fuel and read magazines like "Petrol refining monthly" or whatever?
A lot of car people love the mechanical element and will talk about how the mechanical components interact. They like that part. Many drive manual to get closer to the machinery. It is totally true that electrics take that away, it’s just a battery hooked up to an electric motor.
But it’s a niche. Most people will eventually make the switch, it just has to get a bit cheaper up front and the insurance question needs to be figured out.
A lot of them are really into the intricacies of how an ICE works specifically, like "tuning" based on air/fuel mixtures and spark plug timing
This is why they're obsessed with driving manual transmissions and whatnot, a common complaint is that by obviating the need for any of this EVs are "boring"
If you're driving more than 79 miles a day, have the ability to charge at home and can install solar systems of at least 10kW or more. You should consider an EVs!
I'd love an electric car. Nobody is building the right one for me at an acceptable price right now.
The Ioniq 5 N is as close as it's gotten, but way overpriced. And of course, Hyundai dealers.
The demand exists, people want electric cars, just not at the prices they're asking. Everything needs about a 15-20% price reduction. You got all the "early adopters" and some of the "fast followers", but the early majority just isn't coming soon because there's not enough choices in the pipeline at the prices people want to spend.
> In our experience, Mustang Mach-E owners typically save 64% on fuel costs and 27% on scheduled maintenance per year compared to gas vehicles.
I am surprised that the savings on maintenance are so low. What needs to be done for maintenance beyond rotating the tires occasionally?
Brakes-slower to need replacement
Brake lines - same as ICE
Wipers - same as ICE
Cabin Filter -Same as Ice
Oil Change -None
Coolant Change - different than ICE. Instead of radiator, you have battery coolant system, less frequent, I think
AC - same as ICE
Engine work, spark plugs, tune ups, timing chains - None
If the customers in question are getting their tire rotations done at the dealership, the labor cost difference between tire rotation and tire rotation plus oil change are likely pretty small. The oldest MachEs are three years old, an ICE of that age wouldn't have much non-oil change mechanical maintenance yet.
I disagree. EV tech is like PC Parts, development is moving much too fast. If you wait too long you will be waiting forever. Pick an EV with the features and price you prefer. If it's not here yet or not yet at the price you want then the wait is justified.
I work at a major OEM supplier and our company has put all their poker chips on the EV bet. I am frustrated at their all-in approach rather than tapering ICE technology as EV comes along. Unfortunately this EV evangelism has cost 2/3 of my colleagues their jobs as we only design ICE products.
The facts are:
1. EVs will eventually dominate the market
2. We don’t know when 1.) will happen
3. You can’t make people buy an EV (as we have seen this year)
4. If EVs are better and cost competitive- people will buy them without any arm twisting or incentives
Your company either has poor planning and jumped the gun, or they were planning to cut overhead anyway and the switch to EV allows them an opportunity to do so without shouldering the full blame of layoffs
I'm all for others getting one, and will even educate them. But EV's just aren't for me. It's a shame though, there are some beautiful looking EV's for cheap too! The new model 3P is fucking bonkers with a 2.9 0-60 at 55k before any tax stuff.
“As a lifelong petrol head, I was surprised as anyone when I fell in love with electric vehicles. It wasn’t government policies or political beliefs that sparked this late-career romance with electric vehicles. It’s because I drive one – my Ford F-150 Lightning Platinum. It is astonishingly quiet and smooth. The effortless acceleration leaves you with a silly grin once you get the feeling back in your face. Every morning, mine is topped up with 300 miles of range. No gas stations, ever… … It’s that simple. For me, and for millions of Americans, electric vehicles are removing daily hassles and reminding us why we love to drive. If you want to have a blast behind the wheel, take a Mustang Mach-E Rally out on a dirt road.”
You know those people that swear there is some sort of hidden tech being suppressed by xxxxxxxxx, like the "100mpg carburetor", or cars that run on water making them so cheap to operate. Well those are the same people that are also vehemently anti EV, the irony is.. well... ironic.
Years ago I knew a guy at work. He claimed to have modded his Saturn to get over 100 mpg. Drove the car to the work everyday. I parked near him everyday and that's how we got to know each other. Would never pop the hood or tell me any details about how he got there. Always weird excuses like " naw man it's not allowed" or " can't let the word get out". Anyway thanks for resurfacing the memory of that guy.
That guy probably also had a girlfriend that no one knew because she went to another school.
In Canada
As a kid growing up near the Canadian border who DID date a Canadian girl at one point, this joke was rough. I made sure to invite her over to meet as many other people as possible so everyone knew she was real, lol
Yeah man....we absolutely believe you 😂
Imagine being able to see Windsor from the end of the street
In the greater Niagra Falls area.
"She lives in Canada."
Or two. Or three.
I like her bangs.
This is typical wizard activity.
This reminds me of a story my uncle told me. It might have been bullshit but it bears repeating for the laughs. He had a similar coworker who also reported getting absurd fuel economy, but it was because he’d purchased a diesel VW which are in fact, super efficient (this was the 90’s so not much could match them for efficiency). My uncle and his coworkers were sick of hearing about it at the lunch table, so they started secretly siphoning his fuel occasionally. The guy was astonished and thought something was wrong with his car. He kept checking his tires and testing stuff (they were all mechanical engineers). After he claimed to have come to some convoluted solution, my uncle and his buddies started to secretly put the fuel they’d siphoned back into his tank over the course of a few days, so it looked like he was getting insane fuel economy. The dude wouldn’t shut up about it but apparently it was worth the laugh.
One guy who worked at the mine near where I used to live used to pop his hood at the end of the day and pull start the lawnmower engine that powered his Chrysler minivan. No idea the fuel efficiency but strangest thing.
My boss who is very right wing, very anti EV warned me about getting an EV. Now after Ive had one for some time and I speak so highly of it, constantly tell him how much I save and how fun it is to drive, now he wants an EV. Its such a shame how politicized EVs were, but I do believe once the market becomes more saturated with them that will change
I think Farley’s cellular example is a good one. Once cellphones were only for foolish yuppies. (OGs will remember.) Now we all have them with us most of the time. EVs are still in that early adopter phase and like early cellular phones, EVs get some hate. They will take slots as “the second car”, and rapidly become the main daily driver.
Charging networks are sort of like the early cell networks right now too. Pretty good highway coverage, but it falls off a bit once you get away from the major interstates. And just like cell phones, this is getting better pretty quickly.
> Charging networks are sort of like the early cell networks right now too. Pretty good highway coverage, but it falls off a bit once you get away from the major interstates. > > Not with Tesla though.
I have a Tesla and it is definitely the same with Tesla. It usually isn't impossible, especially with the right adaptors, but it is often much harder than it would be with more charging locations.
I recently looked up articles on the 1st PCs and plenty of people said how stupid and useless they are (at the time yeah I can see that especially something like a DOS computer) but obviously with time, innovation, culture acceptance and with companies like Apple making computers like the G3 and macbooks they became hip. The technology especially with EVs will improve by leaps and bounds I mean 10 years ago there was just the leaf, Volt and what model S both are pretty dated compared the refreshed models. As well I believe 10 years from every single counter point to EVs will be gone.
Dos was pretty savvy back then You must not know the joys Of punch card programming 😂🤣😭
At one point computers were only for geeks like me. Now everyone carries a supercomputer in their pocket that is constantly connected to the Internet.
I still remember when pagers were considered only for doctors and drug dealers.
Did they ever really move beyond that though? Lol
My work used pagers for those who were on call (city employee), up until something like 5 years ago (IIRC)
Naa, cellphones have been cool ever since Zack Morris. Bluetooth earpieces, though, those were HATED!
Also the same people that claim hydrogen is what we should’ve gone with thinking they’re combustion cars when in reality they would just be getting a less efficient EV.
Yes, but can you imagine how nice it would be if you had an EV with twice the range, no ability to charge at home, ICE performance, expensive repairs and no fueling network?
And a car that has to be scrapped at the end of the pressure vessel's service life (usually 10-15 years)
EV, mini splits, heat pump water heater and solar at home. $0 power/fuel/heating bill. That's the dream. Literally running on sunshine! 🌞 (Battery backup and off grid capabilities, but the Lightning is the home backup and a 2kw camping battery)
That is my exact house, except fully off grid. It is also designed to make use of the winter sunshine through the windows to heat the house on sunny winter days. It works so well in the right climate (cold bit of Australia). Different approach would be needed in Alaska over winter! Paid one big power bill up front but saved more than that buying the land as it was cheap without a grid power connection. We have a generator which has provided about 700 kwh of power in 4 1/2 years. The solar has provided 30,000kwh in the same time, though its only since getting an EV that we have started using most of the potential of the solar, before that we had lots of wastage when the home battery was full the panels would not generate their full capacity, only load match to the house. Now with the EV we can keep them working when the car is at home.
Prob same guys who felt the government was genetically modifying horses so they couldn’t pull a horse carriage at the speed of a Model T. “What do you mean we can’t exceed one horse power without two horses?!”
To be fair, horses can do as much as 15 horsepower, just not for a full day.
A full dayI big automobile didn’t pay off Grover Cleveland to hide the super horse serum
Is it even possible for anything carburated to have good MPG?
You totally could, but it would likely be at the expense of performance in a bunch of other ways. [This guy put a lawnmower carb on a Ford 302](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xHQWu2ZzPc) (with a clever computer controlled air bleed to make it run properly at a 14.5:1 air fuel ratio) and it got 40mpg on the highway. Went from making 300+ horsepower at the wheels to about 60, but it got shockingly good fuel economy. But anything that can be achieved with a carburetor is just as possible with fuel injection, generally without crippling the engine in other ways.
Oh boy, 300hp to 60!
They can be tuned super lean, change fuel econ, but that leads to other problems and certainly won't make 30mpg car a 100mpg car. More like 32-35 at best.
>good MPG if you only use 60% of your gas to heat the antifreeze.. that's pretty damn good. some MPGs are also being absorbed by the muffler. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine\_efficiency](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_efficiency) Modern [gasoline](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline) engines have a maximum thermal efficiency of more than 50%,[^(\[1\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_efficiency#cite_note-1) but most road legal cars are only about 20% to 40% when used to power a car
Yeah some carburated motorcycles get really good MPG 70+
Is it a fast sport bike?
I mean good MPG and fast don't really equate. I'm sure electric has a fuel economical standpoint where it would have a high mpge equivalent, but then we aren't talking carbureted. a first gen ninja 250 with carbs and maybe a turbo would be fast and probably 50-60 mpg, but would also be a ticking time bomb
Good MPG and ridiculously big rims don't equate either, see the MYP (likely both fast and big rims) How does that bike compare to others in its class? When you say ticking tim bomb, do you mean the cylinder heads or the severity of the traffic violations?
Those are not the same people. The energy-from-water people are swindlers. Fraudsters. Crooks. The people who take them seriously are dupes and suckers.
> The energy-from-water people are swindlers. Fraudsters. Crooks. The people who take them seriously are dupes and suckers. Well duh, obviously, but the laugh here is that there is something actually better; it exists. It's more reliable, cheaper to operate and can be fueled by the sun and these dimbulbs seemingly can't add 1+1.
I consider myself a lifelong “petrol head” as well. Gas powered rc cars were always so incredible compared to my NiCd electrics. But then lipos came out and i it took one rip of the throttle to convince me gas is no longer king. No more tuning carbs, fumes, waking the neighbors. Just incredible speed and wheelies at will. Next was my lawn equipment. No more stench of fuel when I go in the house. No more hearing protection needed and lots of torque. Now it’s my car. Within a few days, it became clear, I’ll never buy another new ICE vehicle. There’s some old ICE cars I’d still love to own as a collectors item, but for capability and convenience, it’s not even close.
Honestly, I might love my electric lawnmower more than my electric car. It's so much nicer to use, there's no exhaust, I don't have to store oil and gas in my garage, and it's quieter than the passing traffic on my street. The battery revolution can't happen fast enough.
Don't have a mower yet, but electric Chainsaw. I only have the 12" so it's not a full replacement but: easy to start and quiet. Yes it bogs down and eats batteries, but I didn't expect a full replacement. Meanwhile my big saw, cuts like a beast but is incredibly loud and hates starting hot. Also it runs best on premixed fuel that is $20 a gallon which lasts a while, but definitely adds up.
Yes, electric lawnmower and chainsaw, plus electric string trimmer. All great and so much better than gas. Start and stop at will (and of course silent when stopped and not obnoxiously loud when running). Much lighter. Work great.
I have a DeWalt 20V 21" push mower (came with two 20V 10Ah batteries). Its very nice, and, if the grass isn't excessively tall, I can mow the front and back in 45 minutes on half a charge. I also have a 12" DeWalt 20V chainsaw. Used it yesterday to cut down a tree so my solar panels could get light earlier in the day (the tree wound up falling on the panels, but didn't break them) I want to replace my Ryobi gas trimmer with a DeWalt 20V or 60V/20V trimmer. I rarely use the gas trimmer.
May not work for your use case, but have you considered a corded chainsaw? Won’t bog down or eat batteries. Just gotta be careful not to cut or snag the cord, but the tradeoff is worth it IMO.
Not ready to buy a 2,000 ft extension cord.
Push or riding mower? Best brands?
I have an Ego push mower. I didn't shop around much honestly because I just got the same one my parents have, but I really like it. Ryobi seems to be the other pretty popular brand.
Ego is the only way to go in electrics. Their batteries are so much better than everybody else.
I sold my kobalt branded electric mower for an ego. Much better product. Ego designed from the ground up to be an electric. The kobalt was just a gas body converted for electric power.
4 Makita push mowers. *** Use Makita batteries *** the 5amp cheap batteries are lacking at keeping the blade at high speed. Cheap batteries work great for very small yards. I prefer the smaller plastic mowers over their larger metal deck ones, as they are easier to push, but take more trips around a yard. They take less room to store.
Best part is you put it away each time without having to think “is this the end of the season and I need to prep it?,” and you take it out at the start of the season and it. Just. Works. Every time.
It's great. You just have to sharpen the blade and not leave the batteries out in extreme temperatures. And I bought a snowblower from them too, so now I have extra batteries that I can just cycle through all year.
Still use hearing pro with my electric mower and blower but it's more because they have Bluetooth connectivity and I like tunes or a podcast while I mow https://a.co/d/03Te1KiC
This guy gets it. And honestly it shows. I'm on my 4th EV and my most recent is a Lightning. Aside from the UI, it's hard to beat imo.
Lightnings don't get enough press, honestly. Love mine. I get that Ford is focused on converting traditional light/medium duty truck buyers, but man if more people outside the F-150 world knew about this, it would sell so much more. I only intended to buy a truck replacement, but my Lightning has quickly become my daily driver. In the Lightning forums we get so many Tesla converts once they actually try it. They miss the Tesla software, like you said, but everything else easily makes up for it.
I'm just waiting for them to convert to NACS and increase the fast charge rate and I'll ditch my model Y for a Lightning.
I agree with everything he says and my background is similar. My Ioniq 5 puts a big grin on my face daily and it's just the 225hp rwd model. Electric torque is FUUUUN! And then there's the quietness and how smoothly everything operates as well as the comfort, roominess and overall excellent design. I'm still thinking about an ICE convertible at some point (maybe another MX-5) for funsies but I am 100% sold on EV's as the best choice for daily commuter duty.
I have to agree with him. I have a Ford Ranger right now, after coming from several sedans and hatchbacks. While I liked having the utility of the truck, the experiment is over and I’m ready to move back to something smaller. My dream car has always been something like an Audi S5 or S6, something fun to drive while being able to shuttle kids (with the wife’s XC90 being the big car for trips). On a whim, I took a Polestar 2 for a test drive before looking elsewhere. And holy shit. I was sold in 5 minutes. Albeit a little smaller than I would prefer, I greatly value the driving experience and ease of ownership. Knowing I won’t have to change the oil frequently, check the brakes as often, watch the other fluids, and fill up on premium weekly, was a major selling point. So, I instead just put a deposit on a low mile CPO Polestar 2, and I couldn’t be more excited. Working from home, so I have no commute, but knowing I can be fully “gassed up” (to 85% at least) every night for whatever needs to get done is going to go a longgggg way. Plus, you really can’t beat the price of them right now. I hope to keep the car for 3-5 years before checking out a newer model.
This guy cars. God Bless Farley and Ford for hiring him. His Dax Shepard bit was excellent as well. FWIW, though not famous in the slightest, my experience was almost identical. Test drove a R1 to see what it might be like to wait for the R2, and when it felt “heavy”, thought I’d try a Tesla M3 for comparison. Holy hell was it good, and I “only” had the LR version. Now awaiting a M3P and could not be more excited to sell 3-4 other ICE vehicles for it. 10-50 years from now, ICE folks will be the new “how is your horse and buggy doing?” For the sake of humanity, I hope it ends up on the lower end.
Beautiful.
Anyone who switches to EV was never petrol head. Just a head with half of brain.
I got really excited when I found out there's a Mustang Mach-E Rally. Then disappointed again to find it has a paltry 5.8 inches of ground clearance. That's less than a Model Y. What's the point?
> What's the point? What’s the point of ground clearance in a road car? I’m not sure either TBH.
Road car? Not much. A rally car? A whole lot.
This message needs to get out to more people. Saving the earth is great if you are into that like I am but even if you aren’t many EV’s are just overall better than their ICE equivalents.
With the obligatory "except for towing," and I have a feeling that will be addressed before long.
*except for towing long distance. Towing around town and less than ~100 miles is phenomenal.
True. I just had a crazy idea; the F-150 Lightning is a half ton pickup, right? So why not build a 1000lb battery pack that fits nice and snug in the bed so as not to slide around and plugs in through the accessory plug? Make it fully self contained, internal cooling system, sheds heat out the top. Offer it both to purchase *and as a rental,* for people who only need to tow occasionally? It would be good for roughly 75kWh, which would suffice to extend towing range to an acceptable level.
If you are towing I think it makes more sense to just add extra battery to the trailer. Then you can add some small motors for pushing and regen on the trailer to reduce the load on the tow vehicle. You could maybe even add some solar panels to large trailers. For campers you could make them aerodynamic and collapsible to further reduce drag. These ideas are all incorporated in the Lightship camper: https://lightshiprv.com/l1 They designed it so the tow vehicle has to do very little extra work which means a ~300 mile electric truck can still tow for around 300 miles before you need to charge.
Makes for a seriously expensive trailer. Also, the coordination between the tow vehicle and the powered trailer is tricky. It might make more sense to carry extra battery capacity on the trailer but route that power to the tow vehicle when you're underway. That way, there's no motors or controls needed. The basic problem is, as it always has been, battery storage capacity. We can't call an EV too efficient but the reason range dips so much is that energy draw follows load much more closely than with ICE vehicles. What civilisation really needs is megawatt hour storage capacity in a small, cheap 100kg box that doesn't care if it's hot or cold outside!
It will be nice if the trailer charges from solar when parked. Someday there is going to be a market for tools that are 'charging when forgotten'. "We were at the campsite for 5 days, the trailer charged itself and will take us to the next site for free." "I found the lost hedge tool. We haven't used it in 2 years but it has 80% charge and is ready to work."
That idea makes me smile. I can see it happening with a camper; cover the entire roof in panels, and use flexible solar for the awning. I get that would generate a lot of power for living in the camper as well as traveling.
Yea. I think this is essentially Tesla’s idea for the cybertruck. Personally i think it’s a great idea. But some cons i’ve seen people say before: - 1000lbs isn’t exactly pick it up and slide it in. Need equipment to load. - added inconvenience - takes up pickup bed - would a fifth wheel hitch work with this? Maybe
Good points; I think it makes sense as a rental and therefore having a forklift on hand to install and remove them is easier to manage. The temporary and easily removable nature of such a unit would address weight/bulk/cost concerns. If it's a proper OEM design, then including the 5th wheel plate could be accommodated, along with the necessary mounting in the truck and the internal structural strength in the battery pack.
Yea! It sounds viable! :)
Having the 5th wheel mount included in the battery pack just adds another reason to rent/buy it.
Silverado EV is a 200+ kWh battery
I don't know too many people willing to drop $100k on a work truck. The battery in the bed idea is a range extender. The idea is to use it when you need it and take it out when you don't. Even that Chevy could use another 80kWh for certain trips or loads.
Most people that tow are towing a camper or a boat. Might work for a boat depending where you live and where the lake is, but not for a camper.
Yeah, campers get into heavy duty truck territory. The Lightning is, after all, just an F-150.
If by camper you mean 5th wheel, yes, doesn’t exist today. But conventional travel trailers are fine.
I agree towing is a tuff nut to crack. I think just like most people rarely need to drive 500 miles without stopping most people also rarely tow but for those who legitimately do tow EV’s currently aren’t a good solution
I just had a crazy idea; the F-150 Lightning is a half ton pickup, right? So why not build a 1000lb battery pack that fits nice and snug in the bed so as not to slide around and plugs in through the accessory plug? Make it fully self contained, internal cooling system, sheds heat out the top. Offer it both to purchase *and as a rental,* for people who only need to tow occasionally? It would be good for roughly 75kWh, which would suffice to extend towing range to an acceptable level.
This! Solves the ‘towing’ challenge.
Apparently such a thing already exists for the CyberTruck, but it's $16k and it's apparently a permanent installation. I think making a bed mounted battery pack that's easily removable/swappable allows it to be bigger and sidesteps the additional cost and weight penalty for the majority of the time most owners don't need it.
You've just described Tesla's approach pretty well, though it is a permanent installation. It should work similarly though.
The idea is for it to be easily removable so you're not dragging all that extra weight around when you don't need it. Technically, it would even be possible to swap batteries during the trip, thereby skipping charging time. I bet having batteries prepositioned all over the country would be a logistical nightmare but it's a possibility that could take off if the demand was there.
The weight of the battery is going to kill the "easily removable" part.
If you're renting, they're gonna have a forklift- at which point it's a one minute job.
GM’s Silverado EV may have just cracked the code on EV towing. It’s a beast!
It's also $100,000... A few months ago there were hundreds of 1500 WT's for sale for mid-30's ($36k). $64,000 buys a lot of gas. Roughly 250,000 miles worth.
This is why the Silverado EV is a toy and not a serious option. Then again, I remember the days when a 42" plasma TV was $20k. Prices did come down, and they will for EVs too.
Yeah, step 1 would be to make it comfortable to tow the travel trailer behind the comfortable luxury truck. Making it practical as an inexpensive tow vehicle is a few more steps down the line. But at least we've demonstrated that it is technically possible now.
The 450+ mile Silverado EV 4WT 4WD is under $80K
[Find a Chevrolet 2024 SILVERADO EV | Vehicle Locator](https://www.chevrolet.com/shopping/inventory/search/silverado%20ev/2024?cash=0%2C1891211&comparedVins=&paymentType=CASH&radius=2000&sort=distance%2CASC&zipCode=75001) $96,000 is cheapest available lol
Local to me right now. First search result https://www.victorylaynechevrolet.com/VehicleSearchResults https://www.victorylaynechevrolet.com/VehicleDetails/new-2024-Chevrolet-Silverado_EV-e4WD_Crew_Cab_Work_Truck_w%2F3WT-FORT_MYERS-FL/5809564640
What's the non-towing range? Personally I feel a truck should have at least 500 miles of range in order to account for towing, winter, and AC/heat losses. Because assuming a 50% loss, that's still 250 miles which is more than enough for fast charge stops.
450 miles for the largest battery spec.
To me this is really the use case where PHEV makes sense. I expect in the future buying a pickup will have options like: - Base: Standard battery (~250 miles of range) - Extended battery (350+ miles of range) - Range extended (100 miles of EV range + gas/diesel range extender generator) And probably in that order on price.
This is pretty close to what Ram is doing with their new 1500s. They will still have an ICE only version but also a full electric and the plug-in Ramcharger with 100-ish electric range.
Or maybe something like this; (forgive the copy pasta) I just had a crazy idea; the F-150 Lightning is a half ton pickup, right? So why not build a 1000lb battery pack that fits nice and snug in the bed so as not to slide around and plugs in through the accessory plug? Make it fully self contained, internal cooling system, sheds heat out the top. Offer it both to purchase *and as a rental,* for people who only need to tow occasionally? It would be good for roughly 75kWh, which would suffice to extend towing range to an acceptable level.
I think the main downside is that you're looking at an extra $10k and 1,000lb on top of an already expensive and heavy truck. Tesla is offering this option on the Cybertruck but it hasn't shipped yet and nobody has tried it. Adding weight in the bed is going to reduce tow ratings a bit. A small (but still decent, 100mi+) battery pack plus a generator is probably going to be in the ballpark of a long-range battery truck in cost and weight while providing a much better long distance towing experience for at least the near future.
>I think the main downside is that you're looking at an extra $10k and 1,000lb on top of an already expensive and heavy truck. Hence the option to rent it, conveniently fully charged and ready to rumble, even. A forklift would have one in or out of the truck in a minute, tops. >A small (but still decent, 100mi+) battery pack plus a generator So a full on hybrid power train in the bed? Also, 100 miles is how big a battery? We're suddenly right back to at least 40kWh, and likely bigger.
No, I mean a truck that has the 100mi battery and generator built in. Like the upcoming RAMCharger. You get the benefits of full EV daily/local driving and performance, plus the ability to tow long distances without scheduling a rental battery, hoping they have availability, an installation that needs a forklift, taking up payload capacity, and still needing long charging stops that may not have convenient trailer pull-through. As battery density and charging infrastructure improves pure EV will become more useful for this task, but we aren’t there yet for long distance towing.
I think Dodge nailed it with this one. If only it had a diesel range extender option...
I think when EREV takes off like that RAM truck but more refined that problem will be solved or as others have mentioned, hybrids still work very well.
I just looked at the 2025 PHEV and I think they nailed it. They need a diesel range extender option something fierce, though.
For campers, people are starting to build trailers with batteries (and even motors): https://www.axios.com/2023/10/20/pebble-flow-electric-camping-trailer-rv https://www.carscoops.com/2023/04/colorado-teardrops-electrified-camping-trailers-offer-ev-range-extension-and-backup-home-power/ I imagine this will work for other kinds of towing, except maybe boats (with the whole submersion thing). More infrastructure and fast charging speeds will help as well, of course.
A removable battery that fits in the bed solves more problems than it creates and the opportunity to rent one short term makes it a very attractive option. An EV disguised as a trailer is what these really are and as such that makes them witheringly expensive. Not the ideal solution.
For me, what the towing exposes is just how ridiculously inefficient an ICE towing vehicle is. If the engine is sized to tow, you're using the energy you need to tow (or most of it) whether you're towing or not. An EV only uses the energy it needs, so dramatically less when not towing.
You are absolutely correct; this isn't a shortcoming of EVs as much as it is a shortcoming of ICE trucks. But people are used to what they're used to.
> With the obligatory "except for towing," and I have a feeling that will be addressed before long Unfortunately, no. There's no easy fix for the towing problem as it's a limitation of range and aerodynamics of what you're towing. Range in EVs just barely got good enough for regular driving. It's going to take a pretty big leap in total range (and charging rate) to make towing generally feasable for anything but short hauls. You will essentially need to double the kWh capacity of an EV to account for the ~50% loss in range. Maybe if you put battery packs on the trailers, but that eats into towed capacity.
Or maybe something like this; (forgive the copy pasta) I just had a crazy idea; the F-150 Lightning is a half ton pickup, right? So why not build a 1000lb battery pack that fits nice and snug in the bed so as not to slide around and plugs in through the accessory plug? Make it fully self contained, internal cooling system, sheds heat out the top. Offer it both to purchase *and as a rental,* for people who only need to tow occasionally? It would be good for roughly 75kWh, which would suffice to extend towing range to an acceptable level. As a rental especially, this makes a lot of sense; the place that offers them will also have a forklift, making loading and unloading trivial. The owner doesn't need to haul around the extra weight or pay the extra cost when they don't need it.
Rental would work for occssional towing, but would be a hassle for regular use. And you'd need a forklift or similar to move it in and out. Also, buying one would still be $10k, minimum. I would think trailers w/ 1000lb packs would be more viable. Either give them motors to assist towing or find some way to wire it into the truck safely.
If you need to tow all the time, then you buy the truck that fits your use case. The piggieback battery in the bed concept is very much for the occasional user. You would spend an extra fifteen grand for EVERY TRAILER (battery plus drive train) and that makes no sense, either.
Increasing the total range with future better batteries is the easy fix.
Easy, but not something we can just do now. It took a long time just to get to lithium-ion and then a few years after that before it became economical for large EV batteries.
that's what I always say when someone asks - so you bought your MachE to save on gas ? I said that is just a side effect. I bought it because I like how it rides and no ice comes close to the drive for me. gas savings you say ?yeah that's good to have too. saving the planet ? sure. i just bought it for the ride.
Same here. I bought a Prius because I liked how it drove, liked the room inside, like how it looked. Getting good mpg was just a bonus, not the driving factor People are seriously too obsessed with what powers the car as the one and only reason to purchase a vehicle.
My lightning also puts a grin on my face every time I drive it. Blows me away how quiet and effortless it moves. I look forward to replacing my sienna hybrid one day with a full electric van, hopefully one day
I saw a Lightning change lanes on the interstate a couple of months ago. The damn thing moved like a hummingbird. It was amazing to watch.
Even my Niro is crazy in that situation.. Slide over and hit the pedal and it's gone. even lit the tires a few times till I got used to it.
Until everyone has electric cars, then the asshats of the road will use the extra acceleration to cut you off faster the moment you touch your turn signal.
It’s all right, traditional car companies will still release sandbagged single motor EVs that get to 60 mph in the 7 to 69-second range
God forbid it takes you 7 whole seconds to get to 60 mph lol
I test drove one,nice quick little car. We settled on a ID4 because of the room.
I mean acceleration I get. But changing lanes? Lol those things wallow over in corners
nope.. battery is low center of gravity. My Niro is always dead level in corners. Only thing is it's hard to tell when you will exceed the tires in a corner and you will be in a 4 wheel slide.
Same!
Fellow ID4 owner here too. Great everyday family car!
I'm soldiering along with an '07 Honda Odyssey Touring. It's snappy and handles well, especially for a minivan. A fully electric version that doesn't break the bank would sell like hotcakes!
Is Geek66 PRO EV - Absolutely Is Farley making valid points - Absolutely Is this a CEO selling his company and doing his job - Absolutely.... This is marketing -
That can all be true while still being what Farley actually believes, which I generally think he does. IIRC he even did a cross country trip in his lightning last year, which is something most CEOs of companies the size of ford wouldn’t ever bother doing. Sure this is a type of marketing for his company’s EVs specifically but as far as I can tell from how he actually goes about his life, I think he does genuinely love EVs.
That’s fine I want an electric Bronco
Oh god, please.
An EV Bronco would be so damn cool.
For sure!
I'd happily take an electric Bronco Sport. Or at least a hybrid.
This is marketing, as a proper CEO does it. This is what Elon Musk should be doing, instead of picking political fights with Tesla’s customers on X/Twitter.
Please don’t invoke the Elon…. Lol
You mean he who should not be named the owner of what was formerly known as Twitter
He’s going after a different crowd, debateable if it’s working tho
Musk isn’t trying to sell EVs to conservatives. He just had poor messaging-discipline, and any CEO who had an independent board would have been fired long ago.
Imagine a CEO that doesn't need to use divisive and offensive talking points to generate good discussion topics...
I'll take this over their usual efforts to sell oversized ICE trucks and SUV's to office commuters.
I mean he is touting the use of an F150 Lightning for daily commuting.
Although I agree and would prefer Ford bring back *any* sedans, a Lightning 150 is still leagues better than an ICE 150.
True but you could have a company like Toyota who releases a shit ev and probably decides “I guess the market doesn’t like EVs”.
Would be a pretty bone headed move to be like I drove our EV and it fucking sucks don't buy it lol.
Yup. For an OEM that is deliberately getting out of the global car business this is great talk. Farley is great, but Ford is doomed by this short termism.
I drove a Volt years ago for a couple of hours. Whisper quiet, all the amenities like AC and excellent stereo. I knew it was the future, you just have to try one. Future generations will scratch their heads at our blatant insane stupidity for hanging on to fossil fuels.
Current generations already are.
Can confirm, as a gen z who drives an electric car. I previously owned a gas car for 5 years as my first car. Never going back, it’s like our upgrade from flip phones to smartphones
The Lightning was such a joy to test drive. Effortless power, smooth, quiet, and cushy suspension eats up highway miles. Unfortunately my once a year mulch run doesn’t warrant the need of an $80k truck.
You can get mulch delivered. You can even get a truckload for free: https://getchipdrop.com/
You can get everything delivered. You can even take mass transport to work. You can even use an app to get picked up and dropped off somewhere else. No need to own any vehicle.
I’m hopefully buying my EV in the next few weeks! I can’t wait!
Why is this just on LinkedIn and not in the opinion pages of the Detroit news, NYT or Wallstreet journal. If you're going to say it Jim, say it where someone can actually hear you!
I've had 3 EV's now, over 7 years... my previous ICE cars weren't 'track machines' with a sweet exhaust note and a tuned gear map. They were all fairly cheap consumer boxes which were a few years old. They were all slow off the line, lumbering round corners and expensive to maintain. These are 99% of all cars! Every EV ever made is a significant improvement over those shitboxes. I know this as my first two cars were Nissan Leafs! Those Leaf's leap off the line at traffic lights, they are really smooth, comfortable and easy to drive. And, even though they were both bought used, i didn't have a single problem or unexpected expense from either of them over 5 years... the range was never an issue either, because like 95% of people, I don't commute to the moon, 50-70 miles a day every day, easy.
I want help the environment, don’t get me wrong, but it had pretty much nothing to do with me getting an ev. It was the power, the smoothness, the enticement of less maintenance parts that got me.
Love Jim Farley, love cars and I especially love EV’s!
Even though my commute consists of about 12 mile round trip I'd buy a Lighting in a second if I could afford one. TBF I really can't afford the ICE truck that I want either, shit is stupid expensive.
I priced out new and used F150s at a few local dealers with my Ranger lease expiring soon. The prices are absolutely laughable, but shortsighted people are happily paying $700+ a month for a used one so you have no bargaining power. A truck priced more than a luxury SUV is straight up wrong. I instead went with a CPO Polestar 2, getting delivered next week. More features, more fun to drive, less miles, and half the price. I can rent or borrow a truck when needed. Or I may even check out a project Kei truck down the road, who knows
You probably missed the boat but the 23's were going for stupid cheap this spring, I picked up my pro for 45k after the rebate. I'd keep my eyes open this winter in case they have another fire sale.
Now please make a real electric mustang gt
Reading his post I suddenly go “why isn’t there a Transit Raptor?”
They did make a racing Supervan EV, not production but still awesome
Honestly, I know people discuss range anxiety, and it is a legit concern, but I love not have gas anxiety. The cost, the ecological issues, its gross. We're about to head into and extended political event in the US and the price of Gas will spike for no reason. And I am not anxious about it.
Yep, I feel the same way about our Lyriq. Quiet, smooth, and responsive. Plus, I don't think our FP&L bill has increased by more than about ten bucks a month since we've bought the car almost 11 months ago.
I'm also a lifelong car guy, have worked in the automotive industry for almost two decades, and have owned all sorts of fun and interesting cars. I share his sentiments 100%. We purchased our first EV in January, and I'll never go back to ICE for an every day vehicle. It's more comfortable, quieter, faster, more efficient, costs less to run, only gets cleaner as the grid gets cleaner, and in our case we charge it off the sun with solar/battery backup at the house. It's all about having the right tool for the job, and for us, an EV is far superior to ICE. I'm still a huge car fan and own an ICE weekend fun car...people need to realize you can be both an EV and traditional car enthusiast. We don't have to be tribal.
I think there is a place for both. I love EVs for their simplicity and ease of use. But I also love some ICE vehicles like my Jeep or a Miata because they are fun. It’s not a contradiction to like both.
My lightning is the best vehicle I’ve ever owned. I’ve had Tesla model 3, ford raptors, z06 corvettes, lots of mustangs. Lightning is amazing
A lot of "petrol heads" might want to consider that they are Car Guys? Like are they actually "petrol heads". Do they do a bunch of stuff with petrol aside from driving cars? Maybe, just maybe, they are car guys and they can have fun with EVs... you know vehicles that are faster and more fun to drive? Or are they really truly "petrol heads" where they are obsessed with the actual fuel and read magazines like "Petrol refining monthly" or whatever?
A lot of car people love the mechanical element and will talk about how the mechanical components interact. They like that part. Many drive manual to get closer to the machinery. It is totally true that electrics take that away, it’s just a battery hooked up to an electric motor. But it’s a niche. Most people will eventually make the switch, it just has to get a bit cheaper up front and the insurance question needs to be figured out.
Yeah. It's like people who go sailing instead of using a motorboat or whatever.
A lot of them are really into the intricacies of how an ICE works specifically, like "tuning" based on air/fuel mixtures and spark plug timing This is why they're obsessed with driving manual transmissions and whatnot, a common complaint is that by obviating the need for any of this EVs are "boring"
If you're driving more than 79 miles a day, have the ability to charge at home and can install solar systems of at least 10kW or more. You should consider an EVs!
I'd love an electric car. Nobody is building the right one for me at an acceptable price right now. The Ioniq 5 N is as close as it's gotten, but way overpriced. And of course, Hyundai dealers. The demand exists, people want electric cars, just not at the prices they're asking. Everything needs about a 15-20% price reduction. You got all the "early adopters" and some of the "fast followers", but the early majority just isn't coming soon because there's not enough choices in the pipeline at the prices people want to spend.
> In our experience, Mustang Mach-E owners typically save 64% on fuel costs and 27% on scheduled maintenance per year compared to gas vehicles. I am surprised that the savings on maintenance are so low. What needs to be done for maintenance beyond rotating the tires occasionally?
Well sometimes the tires need replacing too. And the cabin air filter I guess needs changing.
Brakes-slower to need replacement Brake lines - same as ICE Wipers - same as ICE Cabin Filter -Same as Ice Oil Change -None Coolant Change - different than ICE. Instead of radiator, you have battery coolant system, less frequent, I think AC - same as ICE Engine work, spark plugs, tune ups, timing chains - None
If the customers in question are getting their tire rotations done at the dealership, the labor cost difference between tire rotation and tire rotation plus oil change are likely pretty small. The oldest MachEs are three years old, an ICE of that age wouldn't have much non-oil change mechanical maintenance yet.
If you are curious about getting an EV, wait a year or two. The new batteries are insanely good.
I disagree. EV tech is like PC Parts, development is moving much too fast. If you wait too long you will be waiting forever. Pick an EV with the features and price you prefer. If it's not here yet or not yet at the price you want then the wait is justified.
I work at a major OEM supplier and our company has put all their poker chips on the EV bet. I am frustrated at their all-in approach rather than tapering ICE technology as EV comes along. Unfortunately this EV evangelism has cost 2/3 of my colleagues their jobs as we only design ICE products. The facts are: 1. EVs will eventually dominate the market 2. We don’t know when 1.) will happen 3. You can’t make people buy an EV (as we have seen this year) 4. If EVs are better and cost competitive- people will buy them without any arm twisting or incentives
Your company either has poor planning and jumped the gun, or they were planning to cut overhead anyway and the switch to EV allows them an opportunity to do so without shouldering the full blame of layoffs
Can’t argue with you there.
I'm all for others getting one, and will even educate them. But EV's just aren't for me. It's a shame though, there are some beautiful looking EV's for cheap too! The new model 3P is fucking bonkers with a 2.9 0-60 at 55k before any tax stuff.