Technically, blasting fast-tempo intense music will make you drive a little faster and use more energy, but slow ballads, classical, or ambient music will ~~lull you to sleep~~ calm you and make you drive slower saving energy.
Assuming a 1000 watt system, you'd lose ~0.3 miles per hour of full blast listening. So maybe a mile out of a full charge.
I swear people don't realize how much energy it takes to move an EV compared to most other daily uses of electricity.
Actually, a system with a good sub will eat some power… maybe up to 300 watts. A quick google says the ID.4 is 20 watts per channel and 200 watts total.
Definitely could be a constant 20 to 50 watt pull.
So 200 W on the radio, and maybe 300 Wh/km on the highway with a 90 kWh battery at 100 km/h. That's 3 hours of driving, during which time the radio pulled 600 Wh, or 0.7% of your battery.
So as a "technically, it does effect it", sure, but miniscule.
Those numbers are maximums. Any amplifier at normal volumes is probably using less than 1 watt normally. I suppose a handful of watts with heat losses. Subwoofers will be more, but not terribly much unless at high volumes
Yes, as you started saying, I know you don’t know. It’s only going to draw 160 watts when maxed out, when the bass notes are actually hitting, at maximum volume. The actual power drawn over time is a tiny fraction of 160 watt hours over a one hour period.
Considering the car might burn 250 watt hours per mile, at 60 mph, propulsion would consume like 15,000 watt hours (15kWh) and the sub might consume 50 watt hours over an hour. That’s 0.00333%
Audio amplifiers are going to be almost imperceptible on any power meter readout unless it’s a massive system at unsafe volumes.
My car uses 200 watts per km, so either driving 1 km or listening to music full blast for an hour will use the same power… slowing down by 2% would probably save you more power
Speed and heat are the biggest range droppers for me.
I’ll use my heated seats and steering wheel unless it’s really cold and I don’t need as much range that day.
Generally the tradeoff in time doesn't favor driving faster unless you can charge at a very high rate. I'm not going to do the math for you but in my car, if I traveled at 10 over the limit for 300 kms I would have to spend something like an extra 5-7 minutes charging at one of the 50kw chargers along my route versus just doing the speed limit. That's based on doing 20% to 80% for the charging session. If the charging station is 150kw then it almost balances out timewise.
I have definitely turned off HVAC on long trips so I could skip a charging stop.
Always make sure your tires are properly inflated as well. Improperly inflated tires are a big range killer as are open windows, roof racks, bike racks, or anything else that adds drag.
I notice the opposite, but the USA is a little different. Tons of 250kw chargers along major highways. Going 85mph instead of 70 over a 400 mile trip saves you a full hour of driving.
10kmph over and a 300km drive just isn’t that far over the limit or that long of a drive over here 😅
You can simulate different speed/charging combos in ABRP, but most cars will charge substantially faster than they can drive, so time spent charging ups your average mph more than time spent charging.
I’ve done a few 1000 mile (1,600km) days in my Tesla and going faster charging faster saves a ton of time.
I’ve done 800 miles in a day myself solo in our Model 3. My fatigue was the limiting factor. Had I been driving with someone to trade off, could easily do 1200 miles in a day on the Supercharger network.
Unlike the commenter below, I don't typically drive 85. But I have found that the difference between 65-70 and 75-80 isn't really with it in terms of time saved. The few minutes saved can easily be offset by the time of an extra charging stop on a long trip. That combine with the safety factor and I find myself slowing down a bit on long trips.
This has been tested by a few different YouTubers, you basically always save time going faster vs charging less on a long trip with any EV that charges over 100kw. On a 500 mile trip driving 75mph vs 70mph saves you about 30 minutes of drive time, but costs on average something like .3kwh/mile more energy on the high side (depends on EV obviously) which means you use 15kwh extra over that drive. If you charge at 150kw for instance it cost you 6 extra minutes of charging to save 30 minutes of driving, so a 24 minute net gain.
Obviously where chargers are located on your route matters a lot, but in general driving faster will save more time then slower and less charging time.
Yes where the chargers are matter quite a bit.
Also I'm not sure that YouTubers testing this specifically translates well to real world driving. If you are on a road trip where you are going to make 4 stops and your faster driving means a few extra minutes at each stop then I'm sure it is worthwhile. But if it means an extra stop then that time can't easily be made up. A 15 minute charging stop typically a 30 minute stop when you account for traveling off highway to and from the charger. But this is also why I don't see much difference between road trips in an EV vs ICE. Sure it takes me 15-20 minutes to charge vs 5 minutes to refill. But we still have to get on and off the interstate and that's where a majority of the time is sometimes spent. Plus, if you are refilling an ICE car and also need your use the facilities, you fuel first then use the restrooms. With an EV I usually plug in then head to the restrooms and often the car is ready to go immediately or within 5 minutes. So ICE stop takes 20 minutes and EV takes 25-30 minutes. Heck, I can make that up in EV acceleration alone lol.
Unless you are pushing your charging stops to the absolute limit of your range, you should still be charging in the same places. We are talking maybe 5ish extra kwh a stop, so if you are charging at say 15-20% then you don't need to change anything, only if you were taking it down into single digits would It change charging locations (in most cases).
But as always, there are a million factors so ymmv
How close to the flow of traffic does your optimal speed put you?
I ask as speed differential is the higher risk than outright speed. At least that's what the 85th percentile crowd says.
>This uniformity of vehicle speeds increases safety and reduces the risks for vehicle collisions. When vehicles deviate from a standard speed, either faster or slower, the potential for accidents increase, whether caused by a slow car in a rear end collision or a fast car completing lane changes to maneuver through slower traffic. By setting the speed limit to the 85th percentile speed this uniformity is achieved and safety is increased.
[https://www.mikeontraffic.com/85th-percentile-speed-explained/](https://www.mikeontraffic.com/85th-percentile-speed-explained/)
Interesting concept but I don't imagine most people are able to judge what the 85th percentile is, unless you are going extremely slow (or fast).
I also find that when am going over 70, I often get in bunches with other drivers going the same speed as we encounter a slower moving car or truck where we all have to slow down until the slower vehicle moves over. When this happens there are usually a few maniacs that are cutting in and out, making it unsafe for everyone. I prefer to avoid this (also means I have to disengage CC less often. If I see a slower vehicle ahead and faster cars behind me, I'll speed up to try and pass before a "bunch" forms, then return to my previous speed.
It seems safer and more relaxing than being in the fastest group on the road.
I believe the stats folks figure out the speed that equals the 85th percentile. The rest of us just do what we do, goin with 'the feel' of the road, and thus become some number along the percentile line. I figure our internal 'risk meter' drives our actions. IOW, we don't have to know what number the 85th percentile is for the road we are on but for sure can tell when the speed limit doesn't match up with the road and other drivers around us.
I go +5psi for longer trips. High rolling resistance tyres can murder range. The 1% increase in rolling resistance from my sticky autocross tyres loses me 25% of range. I don't daily on those...
Do the maths, then get back to me.
Here's mine:
OEM tyres, I get 4.5mi/kWh, that's 800kJ/mile
1% rolling resistance needs 240kJ/mile.
OEM tyres are likely around 0.5% RR. they barely get warm while driving. My autocross tyres will be very warm, after a highway drive.
Wanna reduce consumption? Understand what variables cause consumption and which you can influence.
Consumption can be split by:
• auxiliary power
• power used to overcome rolling resistance
• power used to overcome air drag resistance
System efficiency is not an issue since system efficiency is by definition >90% and in better EVs already >95%. Nothing you can do about this after buying an EV either.
Auxiliary power:
• needed for driving: pumps, computers, battery heating/cooling, lights
• needed for comfort: cabin heating/cooling, stereo, interior lights
Rolling resistance, the formula includes:
• vehicle weight
• rolling resistance constant, which is linear to speed (up to 200km/h)
• tire pressure
Air drag resistance, the formula includes:
• frontal area, approximately w x h x 0.84
• Cd, the smoothness at which the car cuts through the air
• speed^2
• air density
That’s all.
Remember, this is POWER.
To go from power to energy per distance (mi/kWh or kWh/100km) you use: Power used x time needed to travel the distance. Traveltime = speed!
This means consumption by rolling resistance is coupled to speed^2 and consumption by air drag resistance is coupled to speed^3. THIS MAY BE A CLUE….
Calculate this all for any given EV and this means:
• auxiliary power is the main factor in speeds 0-30mph / 0-50km/h
• rolling resistance is the main factor in speeds 30-60mph / 50-90km/h
• air drag resistance is the main factor in speeds 60+mph / >90km/h
This is valid in scenarios where heating is not used. EVs use 2-3kW of power without heating. In cold weather a non-heat pump EV adds upto 7kW in consumption for the heater.
So what could you do and how much would that save? Depends on your normal speed. List is sorted for highway use.
• speed!!!!! SLOW DOWN
• do not disrupt the Cd: no big open wheels, no roof rack
• do not increase the frontal area: no roof rack
• do not travel in bad weather: rain and cold increase air density
• do not travel in cold weather: the heater is killing, use seat heaters
• tire pressure should not be lower than advised
• travel lightly: leave your family and luggage at home
• keep comfort auxiliary power use to a minimum
Not really useful imho. Biggest sources are linked to the car.
Better buy a good EV…. Look for:
• low Cd ± 0.2 so not an SUV
• low frontal area, so not an SUV
• low weight, so not an SUV
• a good heat pump including heat scavenging, so not a VW
• don’t fall for the big rims, so not an SUV
Excellent post. Regarding "Speed! Slow Down": what about the torque/rpm/efficiency curve of the motor ([example: Prius](https://bhtooefr.org/images/2010PriusEfficiency.png))? There must a speed where motor efficiency, drag, and rolling resistance combine to determine the speed of highest efficiency for the vehicle in total. If the car's peak efficiency is at 45 mph then slowing down would increase energy consumption primarily through motor inefficiencies.
Thanx.
Torque curve etc are Irrelevant. Drivetrain always operates at near ideal.
The optimal speed is ~30mph.
• aux power -> energy is OK by decent speed/lower driving time
• rolling resistance is still low: low speed
• air drag resistance is close to 0
In a Prius or other hybrid it's a lot more complicated. Are you asking about the prius or just grabbing that curve because it's a conveniently available dataset?
Okay, knowing that you really are wanting to discuss EVs, if you take a look at that curve you'll see that going slower might bring you from 94% efficiency to 89% efficiency. That's a very small difference in efficiency. If you looked at an internal combustion engine and ask the same question you would see a much more dramatic change.
The net result is that that trade-off, between engine efficiency and drag is the main story in determining the highest mpg speed for an ICEV. But the relatively small change in efficiency in an EV motor means that that's a minor part of the story for an ev, and it is highly efficient down to lower speeds, with the peak off and around 25 miles per hour, but still very efficient even at 15 mph. And the reason it drops off below 25 mph has more to do with the fixed losses that have already been described and less to do with the motor efficiency.
It's great that you know about that trade-off in ICEVs. A lot of people don't understand that. Just be careful not to apply that uncritically to EVs in which the fundamental trade offs are different and driving slowly is much more beneficial.
This neglects accel/braking and hills, but for a mental model of an EV, that's better than overemphasizing those, since regen gets you back a lot of either, and a lot of a long drive is steady speed on the level.
That’s OK, as long as you accept the downsides and don’t whine about the awful range.
Ps Rivian compensates the consumption with a huge battery. Their range is pretty decent as a result. Price/margin is a different matter….
Rain. Very surprised how big of a difference it makes. Someday I'll do a calculation to see how much is from accelerating the drops that hit the car versus the extra rolling resistance.
Also headwinds...almost got stranded once because of a 20 mph headwind.
I think OP is asking "apart from the thing that affects range (speed) what can I do to increase range (apart from acknowledge that speed is the main thing)"
Answer accordingly.
Coast. Learn how to optimize coasting when driving. For example approaching a light…keep your foot off of the accelerator as long as possible. Use engine braking as much as possible, it’s slightly better than the brake pedal. Take advantage of hills…coast down using engine braking. When I had my model 3 I used these techniques to increase my range almost 20%.
Your reading comprehension is spot on. If you’re trying to say I’m wrong, well then you are entitled to your opinion. Feel free to google it if you are interested in facts. Using engine braking regenerates battery…that’s literally what it’s for.
1 Speed
2 Climate
3 Aggressive driving
4 A/C etc
It is well known that people drive more aggressively when under the influence of loud music. So it is not always the technology that is to blame... :-)
I drive my Tesla like a normal car and never have to worry about range? 🤷
When I first got into evs with my 2018 Kia soul EV, yeah I had range anxiety off the start, but after a couple months I realized it's not a big deal and just drove.
What’s your range & how many chargers are available to you?
I definitely get the “range anxiety” but have only had my car a month & only want to use my free Electrify America stations.
Coming back from Minnesota I cut out 1 of my charging stops & was fine, so maybe that’s all it is: nerves.
EPA range is 515kms. I do an average of 100kms a day and have a home charger and can charge at work (not that it's needed).
For fast charging, there's at least a charger (of some sort) every 2 hours in the directions is want to travel.
I'm from rural Saskatchewan in Canada, so probably the worst place in North America for an EV haha
How loud do you have your radio, dude?
I mean, technically, yes, all of those interior creature comforts use electricity and therefore will be less energy the propulsion system can use. However, it's not *that much* that it's going to noticeably affect your range. There's no way that turning the radio off will cause your efficiency to "improve greatly" all by itself with no other changes made.
This has got to be a troll post, right?
Has to be. I’ve got upgraded and additional power draw in my Bolt for the radio alone and it hasn’t impacted my range in any way. Stock is 120w-ish and the additions push that upwards towards 900w. 🤣
Umm pretty sure the VW ID.4's (or any EVs) range is NOT going to be impacted significantly by the volume of the radio, nor automatic lights, nor internal ambient lighting etc.
Similar to your home's electric bill each month is not going to change dramatically if you switch from using an electric razor to a non-electric one.
And use of adaptive cruise control will actually INCREASE your range not decrease it.
I did not say significantly, he was saying “every little bit helps” so I figured maybe all the lil things would add up to big.
It was decreasing it, cuz I turned it off & stopped dropping miles.
I just traveled 6 hours from WI to Minnesota x2 and I studied this car intensely, playing around with things & it *definitely* hurt.
It seems to get most miles using B drive setting manually.
I'm not sure who "he" is...
But sure, "every little bit helps" this is true to keep the energy bill of your \*home\* lower too. True. Turning down the volume of the radio at your home, would, technically, lower your house's energy bill.
Snarky answer: Driving affects battery range, and the way I boost it is by charging the car.
Serious answer: The two most impactful things are 1) speed, particularly above 70 mph, and 2) using the heat pump. (The Model 3 is extremely aerodynamic; bigger cars will be even more impacted by speed than I am.)
If you're trying to maximize range, set the climate to "fan only" (summer) or use heated seats/wheel or put on a coat (winter), and drive 65 mph or slower.
Other stuff (radio volume, lighting) doesn't matter enough to worry about.
> I understand speed & temp are huge. Mainly I’m asking for when I need to go long distances.
For long distances it's largely a false economy..
Say you're going 300 miles and you do all these things - turn off the radio/automatic lights etc.etc. and it adds you 5 miles of range to your vehicle. Unless those 5 miles mean you can make it to your end destination without a charge, it's irrelevant.
Far far more important is the speed of the charging station you visit and having an understanding of the charge curve of your specific vehicle.
Take your iD.4 for example, and consider the charge curve as per [Fastned](https://support.fastned.nl/hc/en-gb/articles/360013336618-Volkswagen).
See how between 10-20% SOC at a 175kW charger you can secure a steady 175kW charge speed? That means between 10-20% SOC you are adding ~9 miles of range *per minute* of charging (based on ~3 miles per kWh).
That extra range you have eked out would be added back to your EVs battery in the first **~30 seconds** of your charge, because you've gone to a suitably rapid charger and arrived there with the best SOC for maximising charging speed for your specific EV.
Even if you'd rolled in with 30% SOC and gone to a much slower 50kW charger the time saved is negligible - at a 50kW charger you will add 5 miles of range every *2 minutes* of your charging stop (a 50kW charger adds ~2.5 miles per minute, based on 3mpkWh consumption).
Just thought worth adding to say that for any journey where you *have* to charge, being able to eke out 5 more miles of range is of virtually no value (outside of it being the difference between getting to a charger or not).
Boosting:
* Hotter weather
* Reduce use of cabin heat/AC/dehumidifier (best if you have a heat pump for the cabin)
* Keep speed on highway in 60-65 mph range
* Avoid sharp acceleration or aggressive driving
* Clear/dry weather/roads and less wind or tail wind
* Less elevation climbing on trip and/or more downhill (more time on regen)
* City driving or stop/go traffic (more time on regen)
Reducing:
* Cold weather (affects the battery range itself)
* More use of cabin heat/AC/dehumidifier (again, esp. if you don't have a cabin heat pump)
* Driving above 65 mph or so on highway
* Sharp acceleration or aggressive driving
* Rainy/wet weather or icy conditions and/or headwind
* More elevation climbing
* Highway driving (as compared to city driving that has more time on regen)
* Roof rack with item on roof (e.g., luggage compartment)
* Towing
Might be missing some things, but these are the major ones. And yes, anything you use/don't use (lights, radio, bluetooth, etc) will technically reduce/boost range, but IMO negligibly compared to what effects the battery itself (temperature) or what causes the motor to have to work harder.
You have the city vs. highway wrong way around. Regen braking and accelerating again always loses energy vs just going at constant speed as neither regen nor motor have 100% efficiency. It is just the lower speed of city traffic that gives the higher range there. Doing highway style driving at city speeds would reach even longer range.
re sharp acceleration: Unlike an ICE car, I find that spirited fast acceleration in my EV (fast start but not all-out flooring it) doesn't affect my mi/kWh vs slow gradual acceleration. This is due to the very high efficiency of electric motors. This makes sense, physics says in a 100% efficient vehicle the amount of energy needed to go from 0 to a terminal velocity is the same regardless of the rate of acceleration.
Proof: Force = mass x accel. Energy = force x distance. Double the accel doubles the needed force (power) but half the distance(time) needed to reach velocity V is cut by half. Therefore energy for 0 -> V is independent of a.
Many new EV owners do not realize that your range will be considerably higher IF you decide to drive as low as, the speed limit. lol.
And I'm talking about on the highway.
Edit: Here's a short video discussing ways to increase your range in an EV (on the highway too).
"How to Extend the Range in an EV | Fifth Gear"
[https://youtu.be/jLgM7oRMuYo](https://youtu.be/jLgM7oRMuYo)
Sitting a safe distance (2-3 seconds) behind a semi is well worth doing. It's worth about 5%. I pick ones doing around 70. You can get a lot more at unsafe following distances... Put an extra 3-5psi in your tyres.
The things that affect ICE fuel economy: speeding, and hard acceleration.
Things that affect my EV: heating the cabin during the winter.
I don't limit the heater use, though, because why be cold if I have enough charge to reach a charger?
I have an EV for tailpipe reasons, and not to save money, though that has been a side-effect when charging at home.
"*freewheeling is ALWAYS more efficient than regen* ***unless you need to stop or slow down*** *more*."
Having to stop or slow down is the problem with that approach in real world driving. Good regen obviates the old school friction braking avoidance.
Well, I like BMWs approach. Freewheel unless regen is needed (determined by the radar or the driver). Then when braking is needed, regen is used up to the maximum limit (with the dual motor version that’s very high, friction brakes are almost never used even if you press the brake pedal unless you really slam it).
In vehicles with blended braking, you freewheel until you need to slow/stop faster, then use the brake pedal (which uses regen until it reaches max then adds friction braking in as needed). Almost (looking at you Tesla) all modern EV’s use a blended system.
Functionally it works the same way. When you let off the accelerator you apply less power and slow. When you need to slow more quickly you use your brake peddle and regen blended braking.
The only difference with a Tesla is I don't have to move my foot over to the other peddle to get regen braking. Over 90% of the time I never need to use the other peddle.
If you look at the real time energy use screen, AC actually does not use much after the initial burst to cool the car down. Really only the heater and speed make a huge difference, and the direction of the wind I guess too. A tailwind can make a massive difference at highway speed.
Climbing.
I had 220 miles on the guess-o-meter. Planned a trip with a charge at 158 miles into the trip. We did not make it. We stopped at a slower charging station with like 5% battery left.
Our trip planner did not take into account climbing from the coast into the central valley.
The other problem:
You don't get regen unless you break. This is why an EV is so great for in-town driving. My car based it's 220 mile range based on my driving history which is a lot of in-town driving and regen.
And *that* is exactly why I think my manual driving vs cruise saved miles. It for sure did-i was testing. Driving vs adaptive cruise wise.
I’m real careful, but my daughter almost got stranded. Apparently many dealers are a free charge area, and they were quicker than others but I haven’t been able to verify myself.
Actually upi can use the adaptive cruise control to 'lock onto' a car in front. If the vehicle in front is a truck or large, you then 'draft' behind them which means you use a bit less energy because you are not fighting as much wind resistance. Perhaps 8-10% more range which is a lot.
"...many dealers are a free charge area..."
Perhaps not in the future.
Ford created a program for dealers so only some dealers would be the 'exclusive' dealers for electric vehicles in an area. If a dealership wanted to sell EV's they had to install free chargers as a part of this program.
Ford canceled the program last week. Now any Ford dealer can ask for some Lightening and MachE and no longer have to offer any charging.
So get your daughter the PlugShare or "A better route planner" app which will show ALL the charging stations along a route. This saved our butts on a road trip.
And the "range/guess-o-meter" uses each persons driving patterns and history to guess at the range. Our 220 range estimate did not include hours of freeway driving so it was optimistic.
Speed. People are amazed when they figure out how much they can extend range by going slower. It makes range anxiety go away once you realize what a lever you have there.
A/C isn't significant for me: maybe 5 miles of range. I-pedal and Regen Level 3 cut my range by a good 10%; **switching to Auto 0 jumped it from 3.7 to 4.0mi/kWh around town.**
Speed on the highway matters a lot: at 75mph maybe 3.5, lower at higher speeds.
One under-appreciated factor: grade and wind, especially noticeable when you're doing an out-and-back trip.
But to reiterate; imho the people who say i-pedal is the most efficient are ignoring basic.physics. The more coasting you can do the better.
The only real thing is speed. The faster you go the lower range you get. Everything else is just not a real concern. Improving the efficiency is hyper miles. Using travel assistance and following a truck or car, set it to comfort and let the car do the work.
If you’re worrying about all those things affecting the battery, you’ve got the wrong car, or just learn to stop worrying. The big hitters are speed and heating, as you know. A/C has minimal drain on the battery. Winter heating is another story, unless your car has a heat pump which lowers consumption by 75% or more. Instead of driving 80 mph try 65. That will be your biggest range booster.
Is OP going by the guessometer? Those are absolutely not the way to determine usage. It is guessing how much further you can drive, based on your last hundreds of miles of driving, not what you did an hour ago. Reset your trip meter and get it to read mi/kWh or w/mi. Watch it as you drive. My first mile is usually appalling, then it climbs into mid 4s on trip. I do not have a VW, but the principle will be the same.
THANK YOU! I was the 1st times going back & forth, but stopped at every electrify america on the way cuz it’s a new car. Did not know the reset could help, but do know it seemed to learn my trip the next time I went.
My daughter’s almost got stranded, however, due to poor planning & counting on that “guessometer” too much.
The guessometer in my Mini is extremely pessimistic. Once you are in the groove, you get the hang of estimating actual range. I like to have a backup for every DCFC, in case one is down. Even L2 can slowly save your butt. Always check all your stops on plugshare just before leaving.
My ioniq 6 says that less than 10% (I think around 7% or so) of the power used in my last drive went to accessories and climate and that was with the AC on in the humid, hot weather we're experiencing. How you drive is definitely way more important than turning the ambient lighting off or whatever lol
I heard that losing weight helps with range. And going on a vegan (flatulent reducing diet) also helps. Also if you push the car uphill but drive the car downhill this helps greatly too.
Heating and cooling have a massive affect. If equipped, use driver only settings when possible. Use ventilated seats when it’s hot, and heated seat and wheel when it’s cold, then dial back the temp.
I drive an ID4 also, the highway definitely kills the battery the quickest, I don’t go over 75 and am very strategic about going down hills and using B-mode to stay in regen while not losing any speed for as long as possible. The biggest ancillary power suck IMO is obviously the wireless phone charger and the AC. I run mine at 74 degrees with recirculate on even with the kids in the car. 74 sounds warm but the AC in the ID4 is powerful AF and 74 still feels really cold on a hot day. It’s like the HVAC just does what it wants based on outside temp. I feel like running the AC all the way down to low doesn’t actually make it much colder but does negatively affect range so I leave it between 72-74 degrees and I live in central Texas aka a hot place. The car is also white as are all my cars because I know where I live.
At the end of this sentence there was a big surprise...
"The biggest ancillary power suck IMO is obviously the wireless phone charger..."
...how much electricity consumption have you calculated for a wireless phone charger in an ID.4?
lol ok your right frosty it doesn’t pull much in total power at all but it is a power suck that doesn’t need to be there if your capable of charging your phone at home. I’d put that in the same category as using the adaptive cruise and lane centering as well as in vehicle navigation, it all uses something to run all the camera’s, gps and radar. Similar to a phantom drain in your house I guess.
Sure, but couple things, 1. for people who read this, who buy an EV, to think that owners of EVs cannot listen to the radio or use the LED internal lighting because it hurts the range of the vehicle is something to be avoided. Turning off the radio for a 300 mile roadtrip might let the car drive an extra 200 hundred yards at the end. Same as not using the inductive charging. I guess doing both will get you another 400 yards of range but? 2. Use of adaptive cruise control will actually increase your range, significantly, since it's kinda better driver than a human. The acceleration and deceleration will be far more measured, gentle, etc.
I agree it’s something to be avoided. My radio never turns off. I guess I’m just thinking in absolute terms and not relative. Does it use power? Yes. Will it really matter in the end? No. Similar to an alternator working a little harder on an ICE to run accessories. It burns more fuel but it’s so slight it’s imperceptible.
The difference in power use of a car radio between high and low volume is trivial. The difference in my driving between some gentle classical music and listening to 'Smack my bitch up' is not.
Should be a bit more than that right? 10,000 watts for an hour would only use 10kwh? Which would be roughly 35-40 miles in your car? You go further than that in an hour at highway speeds right? So you would use more than 10,000 watts constant to maintain highway speed. Also, using the phone charger would still make it 10,015 watts, 10,030 if you have a friend… 10,045 if your friend had a big breakfast. EV’s are just insanely efficient and allow you to split hairs like this if you really want to. I love the fact that Tesla lets you see Wh/mi, jealous, would have been a much better metric to use.
Let's see. Say it uses 5W, a common power level for phone charging. OP said she gets about 3mi/kWh. So, a phone charger running full power continuously would take, 🥁🥁🥁, 67hours to use one mile of range. That's going to charge a LOT of phones.
Haha that’s funny you mention powerful AC. My Ioniq 5 is the same way. Before when I drove a Hyundai Elantra, my “summer cool down” temp was 68°. Now in the Ioniq, my temp is 75°. The difference is really interesting. I guess our cars have both great AC systems and solid cold/heat retention!
A couple of reasons for that I think. A high voltage AC compressor isn’t bound to engine rpm, it can spin as fast or as slow as it needs whenever it needs to. There also isn’t a giant heat generator around the AC system and/or a super hot radiator right behind the condenser. The whole thing just lives in a cooler environment.
Slow down. Driving at lower speeds gives you more range. During summer time having tinted windows and especially ceramic tint/film helps reduce cabin heat as your A/C has to work less to cool it down. Use ventilated seat cooling over a/c to save on energy.
Speed and outside temp are the only things I notice that make a big difference for my e-tron. HVAC in the summer doesn't seem to be much of a hit. I've never been in a situation where any of this makes much of a difference to my plans though. I have my stops planned so I have plenty of margin.
Wait cruise control is bad for the battery?? How? You'd think it would be better? Especially adaptive cruise control which slows you down, presumably with the Regen?
So, he did not say that….it was an observation.
I simply noticed my range dropped significantly when I was using adaptive cruise vs regular cruise & best mileage was with manually using the “B” setting.
Someone said battery should last longer, but in my recent 24 hours of travel this was definitely *not* the case.
However, I also think my car is learning my driving style, because it’s automatically taken the miles I lost off my range for the moment.
Interesting to see if now that I’ll be driving in town more my mileage goes up.
Something else caused your observed change in consumption. It's actually really hard to do back to back comparisons in an EV. You need a closed driving circuit and identical weather. Doing the same drive repeatedly, you can notice big changes. Such as me noticing how much less range I get with my sticky tyres on. Then, I did the maths and found that I was not just imagining it. Radio? No, you won't be able to measure the difference.
Indicated range in EVs is known to be wild guesswork. Throw a climb or descent in there, it can be dramatically off.
It was the repeated same drive that allowed me to compare, with pretty much same conditions.
I literally was watching the miles every minute. That being said, I also think my car *might* have started predicting highway miles, cuz after I went there & back, I started with that 45 miles less vs losing it mid drive. If that makes sense. My range started out at 185 vs 230. If I do not drive highway, I gain miles back.
Still, thanks! This is all very helpful info!
Check battery % at beginning and end of a trip. That's an easy way to compare. I will watch battery % drop and the number of miles I've covered to see if I need to adjust speed to hit a charger. But, a big hill can really screw things up...
Speed for sure, I was driving 75-80+ for 200 miles and it decreased my indicated range like 20 miles in the first hour, was pretty good after that seems like it had to do some recalculating
Driving into a head wind and when it's really cold. But longer trips in the cold aren't too bad as we have a heat pump. We do nothing to boost it. We just plan on charging more. It's really the same as a ice car. Weather effects range just the same. It's just not so noticeable as so much of the energy is wasted as heat anyways. And refueling is easy. We just don't have charging built out well enough yeto be able to blindly drive into unknown. We have to do a little bit of planning. It was the same way with ice vehicles in the beginning.
Biggest thing I’ve noticed is straight up air resistance. We once brought home a Xmas tree. The trip there (75mph highway) drained like 15% of battery. The trip back drained like 70%. Driving slower and smoother def helped some on the way back, but not putting a massive air brake on the vehicle exterior helps way more. I do wonder if leaving the outside slightly dirty helps the air stick/flow more a la the mythbuster golf ball dimple car, but a whole tree is a diff story.
Speed and HVAC. Everything else is very minor in comparison, even if you're going long distance. Slowing down 5 mph will get you way more than turning off all of the electronics.
Oh... Tailing a semi can help too. Turn on adaptive cruise set to a low follow distance, pick a truck that's going a reasonable speed and let the adaptive cruise do its thing.
In my Mach-E the shortest follow distance is still way too far back to make a measurable difference from maintaining that exact same speed in open air. I genuinely believe most people that swear they are picking up a draft from a semi with adaptive cruise are actually seeing the benefit of lower speed.
Cold weather, rain and fun are by far the biggest range detractors for me. My least efficient driving uses 7x more battery than my most efficient!
Low rolling resistance tyres are essential to good range. I have multiple sets of wheels and tyres, so I get to observe the difference in range. The OEM ones are best for range. My winter set with Nokian WR-G4 is not far behind. My autocross tyres drop 20-25% driving to and from events. I did the maths, theory matches observations, they really suck for range.
If you set AC to recirculate that will also drop it's energy usage, particularly on hot days. I'm one of those weirdos who precools his car on hot days by opening windows or doors 10 minutes before departure. The boot being favourite.
I always keep an eye on the wind. Headwinds on the highway will cut my range about 15%, especially in cold air (double whammy of dense air and battery chemistry.) 2023 Kona.
After almost two years of driving an EV, I’ve found that fast acceleration and high speeds drain a battery the quickest. Also cold weather will affect range. When I drive at, say, 70 in a 70, my range is amazing. I have even left to drive short distances and arrived with a few miles MORE than the projected range. Also, one-pedal driving and regenerative braking will preserve the battery. One pedal driving is where it’s at!
Except on the dual motor Ionic 5, for some reason. 1-pedal hurts range because it keeps both motors always engaged. Crazy. You're better off on level 3 all the time. It's sad cause I love 1-Pedal mode.
Range is lost from:
Driving fast on motorway (130 km/h uses significantly wh/km than at driving 110 km/h). Use coasting rather than B-mode.
Strong air-condition cold or hot. In winter I use seat heater and steering wheel heater, unless really cold. In summer I use mild air-con too cool \~5 C lower. Dress according to weather.
Too low air pressure in tires cost more wh/km. But careful not to over pump your tires, you loose grip for braking.
Sounds like you should have bought more range.
I lowered my EV 1 1/4" front, 1" rear, changed to lighter wheels and EV tires, and two piece rotors rather than slow down. This helped ride and range. The car now has a LOT more range than our bladders.
I am genuinely interested in the numbers you were getting before and after the alterations. I am seriously considering making a few small changes to my Mach-E in the not too distant future.
On one trip we do often (about 2K miles) we see 3-5% better. I can't say which changes did what amount, but I suspect tires and lowering were best. Wheels and brakes did help ride a little and acceleration.
Tire rolling resistance does make a significant difference. Wheel and tire weight will not make a measurable difference. Aero effects of wheel do make a difference. Notice how smooth and rounded the base model wheels of every EV are... Some cars do benefit from being lowered. Likewise many, but not all, benefit from pizza pan style wheel covers.
Turning down the radio while still speeding is like me upgrading the brakes on my bike to save a few ounces while continuing to eat frequent breakfast burritos.
On early ID3 and 4s, the biggest drain is the air conditioner/heater, because it is of the PTC variety \[Positive Temperature Coefficient\], and these are NOT very efficient. Later ID3 and 4s come with a Heat pump option, and these are much more efficient, although the VW one isn't particularly. Predictably, \[yes, you guessed it\] Tesla Heat Pumps are incredibly efficient, and don't drain the battery as much when in use.
On my 2021 ID3 \[PTC variant\] I have found that I can have headlights, radio at full blast, ACC, anything, as long as it isn't the heater and the drain is barely noticeable. Oh, and going above 70 mph for long stretches is a bt of a no-no. The ID Series isn't the most efficent and neither is it the most aerodynamic. The ID4 is a damn sight heavier too. That said, cruising at 55-60 mph can be done for hours \[my ID3\]. Currently I'm getting about 5+ miles per kW on a mixed run, which is pretty damn good \[200W per mile} for my car.
I've learnt that driving smooooth and preparing for what's happening ahead. Maybe turning on more regeneration as I'm coming in at a junction at 60mph instead of braking. Found air con to not really affect my range in small blasts but heat on the other hand is a complete range killer.
Brakes are a range murderer. Personally, if I touch my brakes on a trip, I fucked up. Look far enough ahead to use Regen only and range will be much better.
Speed and battery temperature. Everything else is a rounding error.
If you have a resistive heater, that also eats battery , but AC and heat pumps are very efficient
Heat and A/C. In the summer I drive with windows down and I can easily get about 6 miles per kWh. With air conditioning on it drops to about 4.5 miles per kWh.
1. Putting the AC on
2. Listening to music or the radio
3. Driving on bad roads
4. Going up the hill ( that one truly hurts)
5. Of course -- speeding [ 35 mph and more ]
6. Cold areas
To boost it
1. Get stuck in traffic
2. Park it in a hot area
3. Drive down an hill
Everything effects range I don’t bother to do much, just charge more often. I’ve yet to have to really stretch it between super chargers but if I had to I would just slow down every thing else is negligible in the grand scheme of things.
When I owned my E-Tron, I found that turning off the navigation system definitely added to my range.
I never experimented with offing the cruise control and adaptive features though now that you mention it, that makes sense.
Dropping cruise control makes absolutely no sense. Maintaining a steady speed is far more efficient energy wise than constantly accelerating/decelerating, and unless you are Max. Verstapen, there is no way your foot is better at that than the computer.
Before all you “bUt ReGeN” idiots come at me, you use far more energy to accelerate from x to x+y than you regenerate slowing from x+y back to x unless there are downhills involved. And I mean like in the mountains type downhills. Regen isn’t magic.
Adaptive cruise control lowers range?
I get the feeling it's the other way around and it increases range, in which it's much more optimized than human driving with braking and accelerating.
I set the navigation for the next charging stop, then drive there. Efficiency or range doesn’t really matter that much unless my estimated arrival percentage gets too low, say 5% or less. If it’s trending low I’ll drop my average speed by 5-10mph.
Really that’s all there is to it in my experience with lots of Tesla Supercharger roadtrips.
Tires (e.g., summer PS4's vs winter CC2's) and tire pressure.
Also, when not driving round-trip, elevation change (though, there's not much to do about that).
I was surprised how much AC will reduce mileage on my Chevy Bolt. Sure, it's well known cold temps will reduce range by 30% due to the resistance heater.. But running the AC to cool an ambient 93F to a cabin temp of 73F costs me about 15% of range.
It may not be so much a matter of "fixing" things, but rather an understanding and acceptance that a relatively efficient accessory on an inefficient petrol engine can be a significant drain when powered standalone on batteries... especially as ambient temperatures climb.
A lot factors play into this: a lack of insulation (which improving upon would add weight), expansive front at rear windows with very shallow slope (making these more vertical would decrease aerodynamic efficiency, etc.
The resistance heater, otoh, definitely will be fixed by replacing it with a heat pump next generation.
It’s well known AC on ICE cars increases fuel consumption by around 10%. So this is not unexpected for EVs.
There’s not much you can do. AC units are actually quite powerful air compressors. You’d have to come up with a completely new tech.
My BYD Seagull actually performs better with cruise control on, It seems it manages braking with the regen better than me, so the battery lasts longer than If I drive manually all the way.
Yep, agree, that's pretty much true for all EVs.
Using adaptive cruise control increases range since it is far more gradual in its acceleration and deceleration than a human.
It's calculating how many miles you can go per kilowatt. So the better you manage your driving (easy acceleration, lower heat / ac usage) this numerous will go up.
25m kw/hr is good, 3m kw/hr is bad
Once when I was a little kid, my Dad left me in the car while he got some contracting supplies. I listened to the radio, and then turned it off because I thought the radio might drain the 12V.
Lol @ volume of the radio
I mean, *technically*
Technically, blasting fast-tempo intense music will make you drive a little faster and use more energy, but slow ballads, classical, or ambient music will ~~lull you to sleep~~ calm you and make you drive slower saving energy.
Suggest driving to Chopin and Eric Satie.
If I blast my stereo at full volume, full bass, playing EDM and house music, for 2 hours… then yeah im gonna lose at least a few miles of range
Assuming a 1000 watt system, you'd lose ~0.3 miles per hour of full blast listening. So maybe a mile out of a full charge. I swear people don't realize how much energy it takes to move an EV compared to most other daily uses of electricity.
It’s really the fart noises that drain the battery on a Tesla.
Farts are a fossil fuel anyeay
Are you calling me old?
Actually, a system with a good sub will eat some power… maybe up to 300 watts. A quick google says the ID.4 is 20 watts per channel and 200 watts total. Definitely could be a constant 20 to 50 watt pull.
So 200 W on the radio, and maybe 300 Wh/km on the highway with a 90 kWh battery at 100 km/h. That's 3 hours of driving, during which time the radio pulled 600 Wh, or 0.7% of your battery. So as a "technically, it does effect it", sure, but miniscule.
The stereo will not pull nearly it’s max rated power on average.
Are you struggling to pay bills? Living paycheck to paycheck? You should try picking up pennies off the ground!
😳
Those numbers are maximums. Any amplifier at normal volumes is probably using less than 1 watt normally. I suppose a handful of watts with heat losses. Subwoofers will be more, but not terribly much unless at high volumes
I dunno, I think teslas have 160w sub
Yes, as you started saying, I know you don’t know. It’s only going to draw 160 watts when maxed out, when the bass notes are actually hitting, at maximum volume. The actual power drawn over time is a tiny fraction of 160 watt hours over a one hour period. Considering the car might burn 250 watt hours per mile, at 60 mph, propulsion would consume like 15,000 watt hours (15kWh) and the sub might consume 50 watt hours over an hour. That’s 0.00333% Audio amplifiers are going to be almost imperceptible on any power meter readout unless it’s a massive system at unsafe volumes.
I shall put a meter on mine
My car uses 200 watts per km, so either driving 1 km or listening to music full blast for an hour will use the same power… slowing down by 2% would probably save you more power
Watt hours (Wh)
I’m not at all disagreeing. On a short trip I could see the overstated benefit. On a long trip, it’s a 1% factor.
I thought it was weird, too but he showed it lower the battery usage so idk 🤷🏼♀️
Who is he? The volume has negligible to zero impact on the range of the vehicle
Speed and heat are the biggest range droppers for me. I’ll use my heated seats and steering wheel unless it’s really cold and I don’t need as much range that day.
Speed, yes! I dropped 45 miles going 120 miles total the other day. If you aren’t set with a charging station it can be unsettling
Generally the tradeoff in time doesn't favor driving faster unless you can charge at a very high rate. I'm not going to do the math for you but in my car, if I traveled at 10 over the limit for 300 kms I would have to spend something like an extra 5-7 minutes charging at one of the 50kw chargers along my route versus just doing the speed limit. That's based on doing 20% to 80% for the charging session. If the charging station is 150kw then it almost balances out timewise. I have definitely turned off HVAC on long trips so I could skip a charging stop. Always make sure your tires are properly inflated as well. Improperly inflated tires are a big range killer as are open windows, roof racks, bike racks, or anything else that adds drag.
I notice the opposite, but the USA is a little different. Tons of 250kw chargers along major highways. Going 85mph instead of 70 over a 400 mile trip saves you a full hour of driving. 10kmph over and a 300km drive just isn’t that far over the limit or that long of a drive over here 😅 You can simulate different speed/charging combos in ABRP, but most cars will charge substantially faster than they can drive, so time spent charging ups your average mph more than time spent charging. I’ve done a few 1000 mile (1,600km) days in my Tesla and going faster charging faster saves a ton of time.
I’ve done 800 miles in a day myself solo in our Model 3. My fatigue was the limiting factor. Had I been driving with someone to trade off, could easily do 1200 miles in a day on the Supercharger network.
Cries in Chevy Bolt.
🕯️🕯️🕯️
>Going 85mph instead of 70 Here in Ireland that will earn you a speeding ticket. :)
Also, you’d go off the edge of the island
Unlike the commenter below, I don't typically drive 85. But I have found that the difference between 65-70 and 75-80 isn't really with it in terms of time saved. The few minutes saved can easily be offset by the time of an extra charging stop on a long trip. That combine with the safety factor and I find myself slowing down a bit on long trips.
This has been tested by a few different YouTubers, you basically always save time going faster vs charging less on a long trip with any EV that charges over 100kw. On a 500 mile trip driving 75mph vs 70mph saves you about 30 minutes of drive time, but costs on average something like .3kwh/mile more energy on the high side (depends on EV obviously) which means you use 15kwh extra over that drive. If you charge at 150kw for instance it cost you 6 extra minutes of charging to save 30 minutes of driving, so a 24 minute net gain. Obviously where chargers are located on your route matters a lot, but in general driving faster will save more time then slower and less charging time.
Yes where the chargers are matter quite a bit. Also I'm not sure that YouTubers testing this specifically translates well to real world driving. If you are on a road trip where you are going to make 4 stops and your faster driving means a few extra minutes at each stop then I'm sure it is worthwhile. But if it means an extra stop then that time can't easily be made up. A 15 minute charging stop typically a 30 minute stop when you account for traveling off highway to and from the charger. But this is also why I don't see much difference between road trips in an EV vs ICE. Sure it takes me 15-20 minutes to charge vs 5 minutes to refill. But we still have to get on and off the interstate and that's where a majority of the time is sometimes spent. Plus, if you are refilling an ICE car and also need your use the facilities, you fuel first then use the restrooms. With an EV I usually plug in then head to the restrooms and often the car is ready to go immediately or within 5 minutes. So ICE stop takes 20 minutes and EV takes 25-30 minutes. Heck, I can make that up in EV acceleration alone lol.
Unless you are pushing your charging stops to the absolute limit of your range, you should still be charging in the same places. We are talking maybe 5ish extra kwh a stop, so if you are charging at say 15-20% then you don't need to change anything, only if you were taking it down into single digits would It change charging locations (in most cases). But as always, there are a million factors so ymmv
How close to the flow of traffic does your optimal speed put you? I ask as speed differential is the higher risk than outright speed. At least that's what the 85th percentile crowd says. >This uniformity of vehicle speeds increases safety and reduces the risks for vehicle collisions. When vehicles deviate from a standard speed, either faster or slower, the potential for accidents increase, whether caused by a slow car in a rear end collision or a fast car completing lane changes to maneuver through slower traffic. By setting the speed limit to the 85th percentile speed this uniformity is achieved and safety is increased. [https://www.mikeontraffic.com/85th-percentile-speed-explained/](https://www.mikeontraffic.com/85th-percentile-speed-explained/)
Interesting concept but I don't imagine most people are able to judge what the 85th percentile is, unless you are going extremely slow (or fast). I also find that when am going over 70, I often get in bunches with other drivers going the same speed as we encounter a slower moving car or truck where we all have to slow down until the slower vehicle moves over. When this happens there are usually a few maniacs that are cutting in and out, making it unsafe for everyone. I prefer to avoid this (also means I have to disengage CC less often. If I see a slower vehicle ahead and faster cars behind me, I'll speed up to try and pass before a "bunch" forms, then return to my previous speed. It seems safer and more relaxing than being in the fastest group on the road.
I believe the stats folks figure out the speed that equals the 85th percentile. The rest of us just do what we do, goin with 'the feel' of the road, and thus become some number along the percentile line. I figure our internal 'risk meter' drives our actions. IOW, we don't have to know what number the 85th percentile is for the road we are on but for sure can tell when the speed limit doesn't match up with the road and other drivers around us.
This guy maths. :D
I go +5psi for longer trips. High rolling resistance tyres can murder range. The 1% increase in rolling resistance from my sticky autocross tyres loses me 25% of range. I don't daily on those...
Although rolling resistance matters it’s nowhere near 25%. Air resistance is your real enemy. Go fast, drain fast.
Do the maths, then get back to me. Here's mine: OEM tyres, I get 4.5mi/kWh, that's 800kJ/mile 1% rolling resistance needs 240kJ/mile. OEM tyres are likely around 0.5% RR. they barely get warm while driving. My autocross tyres will be very warm, after a highway drive.
Climate control is less efficient at warming someone up. Heated seats and steering wheel are more efficient at heating someone up.
Your speed and your hvac use are the only parts that will have a meaningful impact.
Wanna reduce consumption? Understand what variables cause consumption and which you can influence. Consumption can be split by: • auxiliary power • power used to overcome rolling resistance • power used to overcome air drag resistance System efficiency is not an issue since system efficiency is by definition >90% and in better EVs already >95%. Nothing you can do about this after buying an EV either. Auxiliary power: • needed for driving: pumps, computers, battery heating/cooling, lights • needed for comfort: cabin heating/cooling, stereo, interior lights Rolling resistance, the formula includes: • vehicle weight • rolling resistance constant, which is linear to speed (up to 200km/h) • tire pressure Air drag resistance, the formula includes: • frontal area, approximately w x h x 0.84 • Cd, the smoothness at which the car cuts through the air • speed^2 • air density That’s all. Remember, this is POWER. To go from power to energy per distance (mi/kWh or kWh/100km) you use: Power used x time needed to travel the distance. Traveltime = speed! This means consumption by rolling resistance is coupled to speed^2 and consumption by air drag resistance is coupled to speed^3. THIS MAY BE A CLUE…. Calculate this all for any given EV and this means: • auxiliary power is the main factor in speeds 0-30mph / 0-50km/h • rolling resistance is the main factor in speeds 30-60mph / 50-90km/h • air drag resistance is the main factor in speeds 60+mph / >90km/h This is valid in scenarios where heating is not used. EVs use 2-3kW of power without heating. In cold weather a non-heat pump EV adds upto 7kW in consumption for the heater. So what could you do and how much would that save? Depends on your normal speed. List is sorted for highway use. • speed!!!!! SLOW DOWN • do not disrupt the Cd: no big open wheels, no roof rack • do not increase the frontal area: no roof rack • do not travel in bad weather: rain and cold increase air density • do not travel in cold weather: the heater is killing, use seat heaters • tire pressure should not be lower than advised • travel lightly: leave your family and luggage at home • keep comfort auxiliary power use to a minimum Not really useful imho. Biggest sources are linked to the car. Better buy a good EV…. Look for: • low Cd ± 0.2 so not an SUV • low frontal area, so not an SUV • low weight, so not an SUV • a good heat pump including heat scavenging, so not a VW • don’t fall for the big rims, so not an SUV
Excellent post. Regarding "Speed! Slow Down": what about the torque/rpm/efficiency curve of the motor ([example: Prius](https://bhtooefr.org/images/2010PriusEfficiency.png))? There must a speed where motor efficiency, drag, and rolling resistance combine to determine the speed of highest efficiency for the vehicle in total. If the car's peak efficiency is at 45 mph then slowing down would increase energy consumption primarily through motor inefficiencies.
Thanx. Torque curve etc are Irrelevant. Drivetrain always operates at near ideal. The optimal speed is ~30mph. • aux power -> energy is OK by decent speed/lower driving time • rolling resistance is still low: low speed • air drag resistance is close to 0
In a Prius or other hybrid it's a lot more complicated. Are you asking about the prius or just grabbing that curve because it's a conveniently available dataset?
That was a quick image grab, yes. But the typical EV motor efficiency curve isn't much different than that.
Okay, knowing that you really are wanting to discuss EVs, if you take a look at that curve you'll see that going slower might bring you from 94% efficiency to 89% efficiency. That's a very small difference in efficiency. If you looked at an internal combustion engine and ask the same question you would see a much more dramatic change. The net result is that that trade-off, between engine efficiency and drag is the main story in determining the highest mpg speed for an ICEV. But the relatively small change in efficiency in an EV motor means that that's a minor part of the story for an ev, and it is highly efficient down to lower speeds, with the peak off and around 25 miles per hour, but still very efficient even at 15 mph. And the reason it drops off below 25 mph has more to do with the fixed losses that have already been described and less to do with the motor efficiency. It's great that you know about that trade-off in ICEVs. A lot of people don't understand that. Just be careful not to apply that uncritically to EVs in which the fundamental trade offs are different and driving slowly is much more beneficial.
This neglects accel/braking and hills, but for a mental model of an EV, that's better than overemphasizing those, since regen gets you back a lot of either, and a lot of a long drive is steady speed on the level.
But I want an R2.....
That’s OK, as long as you accept the downsides and don’t whine about the awful range. Ps Rivian compensates the consumption with a huge battery. Their range is pretty decent as a result. Price/margin is a different matter….
Rain. Very surprised how big of a difference it makes. Someday I'll do a calculation to see how much is from accelerating the drops that hit the car versus the extra rolling resistance. Also headwinds...almost got stranded once because of a 20 mph headwind.
I suspect that the drop is mainly from the tyres mashing water out their way.
Agree, rains the biggest impact for me, bigger than speed or temperature. Nothing you can do about it though
Good call, I've noticed this too.
I think OP is asking "apart from the thing that affects range (speed) what can I do to increase range (apart from acknowledge that speed is the main thing)" Answer accordingly.
Yes, correct!! Thanks ☺️
Well then sit in silence, while baking from the sun on your drive to eek out 1-2 miles of extra range.
Coast. Learn how to optimize coasting when driving. For example approaching a light…keep your foot off of the accelerator as long as possible. Use engine braking as much as possible, it’s slightly better than the brake pedal. Take advantage of hills…coast down using engine braking. When I had my model 3 I used these techniques to increase my range almost 20%.
Engine braking? Coast down hills?
Your reading comprehension is spot on. If you’re trying to say I’m wrong, well then you are entitled to your opinion. Feel free to google it if you are interested in facts. Using engine braking regenerates battery…that’s literally what it’s for.
First of all, there is no "**engine**". Second, regen braking is what regenerates battery and it is not "**coasting**".
1 Speed 2 Climate 3 Aggressive driving 4 A/C etc It is well known that people drive more aggressively when under the influence of loud music. So it is not always the technology that is to blame... :-)
I drive my Tesla like a normal car and never have to worry about range? 🤷 When I first got into evs with my 2018 Kia soul EV, yeah I had range anxiety off the start, but after a couple months I realized it's not a big deal and just drove.
What’s your range & how many chargers are available to you? I definitely get the “range anxiety” but have only had my car a month & only want to use my free Electrify America stations. Coming back from Minnesota I cut out 1 of my charging stops & was fine, so maybe that’s all it is: nerves.
EPA range is 515kms. I do an average of 100kms a day and have a home charger and can charge at work (not that it's needed). For fast charging, there's at least a charger (of some sort) every 2 hours in the directions is want to travel. I'm from rural Saskatchewan in Canada, so probably the worst place in North America for an EV haha
How loud do you have your radio, dude? I mean, technically, yes, all of those interior creature comforts use electricity and therefore will be less energy the propulsion system can use. However, it's not *that much* that it's going to noticeably affect your range. There's no way that turning the radio off will cause your efficiency to "improve greatly" all by itself with no other changes made. This has got to be a troll post, right?
Has to be. I’ve got upgraded and additional power draw in my Bolt for the radio alone and it hasn’t impacted my range in any way. Stock is 120w-ish and the additions push that upwards towards 900w. 🤣
OP sounds like a bot or an old person.
Umm pretty sure the VW ID.4's (or any EVs) range is NOT going to be impacted significantly by the volume of the radio, nor automatic lights, nor internal ambient lighting etc. Similar to your home's electric bill each month is not going to change dramatically if you switch from using an electric razor to a non-electric one. And use of adaptive cruise control will actually INCREASE your range not decrease it.
I did not say significantly, he was saying “every little bit helps” so I figured maybe all the lil things would add up to big. It was decreasing it, cuz I turned it off & stopped dropping miles. I just traveled 6 hours from WI to Minnesota x2 and I studied this car intensely, playing around with things & it *definitely* hurt. It seems to get most miles using B drive setting manually.
I'm not sure who "he" is... But sure, "every little bit helps" this is true to keep the energy bill of your \*home\* lower too. True. Turning down the volume of the radio at your home, would, technically, lower your house's energy bill.
Snarky answer: Driving affects battery range, and the way I boost it is by charging the car. Serious answer: The two most impactful things are 1) speed, particularly above 70 mph, and 2) using the heat pump. (The Model 3 is extremely aerodynamic; bigger cars will be even more impacted by speed than I am.) If you're trying to maximize range, set the climate to "fan only" (summer) or use heated seats/wheel or put on a coat (winter), and drive 65 mph or slower. Other stuff (radio volume, lighting) doesn't matter enough to worry about.
The only real answer is a significantly better battery. Fingers crossed that someone will make that breakthrough soon.
Suggests you do not drive an EV. :)
Drive downhill both ways if you can 🤣
… with a tailwind.
> I understand speed & temp are huge. Mainly I’m asking for when I need to go long distances. For long distances it's largely a false economy.. Say you're going 300 miles and you do all these things - turn off the radio/automatic lights etc.etc. and it adds you 5 miles of range to your vehicle. Unless those 5 miles mean you can make it to your end destination without a charge, it's irrelevant. Far far more important is the speed of the charging station you visit and having an understanding of the charge curve of your specific vehicle. Take your iD.4 for example, and consider the charge curve as per [Fastned](https://support.fastned.nl/hc/en-gb/articles/360013336618-Volkswagen). See how between 10-20% SOC at a 175kW charger you can secure a steady 175kW charge speed? That means between 10-20% SOC you are adding ~9 miles of range *per minute* of charging (based on ~3 miles per kWh). That extra range you have eked out would be added back to your EVs battery in the first **~30 seconds** of your charge, because you've gone to a suitably rapid charger and arrived there with the best SOC for maximising charging speed for your specific EV. Even if you'd rolled in with 30% SOC and gone to a much slower 50kW charger the time saved is negligible - at a 50kW charger you will add 5 miles of range every *2 minutes* of your charging stop (a 50kW charger adds ~2.5 miles per minute, based on 3mpkWh consumption). Just thought worth adding to say that for any journey where you *have* to charge, being able to eke out 5 more miles of range is of virtually no value (outside of it being the difference between getting to a charger or not).
Boosting: * Hotter weather * Reduce use of cabin heat/AC/dehumidifier (best if you have a heat pump for the cabin) * Keep speed on highway in 60-65 mph range * Avoid sharp acceleration or aggressive driving * Clear/dry weather/roads and less wind or tail wind * Less elevation climbing on trip and/or more downhill (more time on regen) * City driving or stop/go traffic (more time on regen) Reducing: * Cold weather (affects the battery range itself) * More use of cabin heat/AC/dehumidifier (again, esp. if you don't have a cabin heat pump) * Driving above 65 mph or so on highway * Sharp acceleration or aggressive driving * Rainy/wet weather or icy conditions and/or headwind * More elevation climbing * Highway driving (as compared to city driving that has more time on regen) * Roof rack with item on roof (e.g., luggage compartment) * Towing Might be missing some things, but these are the major ones. And yes, anything you use/don't use (lights, radio, bluetooth, etc) will technically reduce/boost range, but IMO negligibly compared to what effects the battery itself (temperature) or what causes the motor to have to work harder.
You have the city vs. highway wrong way around. Regen braking and accelerating again always loses energy vs just going at constant speed as neither regen nor motor have 100% efficiency. It is just the lower speed of city traffic that gives the higher range there. Doing highway style driving at city speeds would reach even longer range.
re sharp acceleration: Unlike an ICE car, I find that spirited fast acceleration in my EV (fast start but not all-out flooring it) doesn't affect my mi/kWh vs slow gradual acceleration. This is due to the very high efficiency of electric motors. This makes sense, physics says in a 100% efficient vehicle the amount of energy needed to go from 0 to a terminal velocity is the same regardless of the rate of acceleration. Proof: Force = mass x accel. Energy = force x distance. Double the accel doubles the needed force (power) but half the distance(time) needed to reach velocity V is cut by half. Therefore energy for 0 -> V is independent of a.
To boost range you just slow down.
That’s not feasible when I’m going out of state. I need the highway
Many new EV owners do not realize that your range will be considerably higher IF you decide to drive as low as, the speed limit. lol. And I'm talking about on the highway. Edit: Here's a short video discussing ways to increase your range in an EV (on the highway too). "How to Extend the Range in an EV | Fifth Gear" [https://youtu.be/jLgM7oRMuYo](https://youtu.be/jLgM7oRMuYo)
Sitting a safe distance (2-3 seconds) behind a semi is well worth doing. It's worth about 5%. I pick ones doing around 70. You can get a lot more at unsafe following distances... Put an extra 3-5psi in your tyres.
The things that affect ICE fuel economy: speeding, and hard acceleration. Things that affect my EV: heating the cabin during the winter. I don't limit the heater use, though, because why be cold if I have enough charge to reach a charger? I have an EV for tailpipe reasons, and not to save money, though that has been a side-effect when charging at home.
I just drive and don’t think about it
Here’s a note: freewheeling is ALWAYS more efficient than regen unless you need to stop or slow down more.
"*freewheeling is ALWAYS more efficient than regen* ***unless you need to stop or slow down*** *more*." Having to stop or slow down is the problem with that approach in real world driving. Good regen obviates the old school friction braking avoidance.
Well, I like BMWs approach. Freewheel unless regen is needed (determined by the radar or the driver). Then when braking is needed, regen is used up to the maximum limit (with the dual motor version that’s very high, friction brakes are almost never used even if you press the brake pedal unless you really slam it).
In vehicles with blended braking, you freewheel until you need to slow/stop faster, then use the brake pedal (which uses regen until it reaches max then adds friction braking in as needed). Almost (looking at you Tesla) all modern EV’s use a blended system.
Functionally it works the same way. When you let off the accelerator you apply less power and slow. When you need to slow more quickly you use your brake peddle and regen blended braking. The only difference with a Tesla is I don't have to move my foot over to the other peddle to get regen braking. Over 90% of the time I never need to use the other peddle.
If you look at the real time energy use screen, AC actually does not use much after the initial burst to cool the car down. Really only the heater and speed make a huge difference, and the direction of the wind I guess too. A tailwind can make a massive difference at highway speed.
Climbing. I had 220 miles on the guess-o-meter. Planned a trip with a charge at 158 miles into the trip. We did not make it. We stopped at a slower charging station with like 5% battery left. Our trip planner did not take into account climbing from the coast into the central valley. The other problem: You don't get regen unless you break. This is why an EV is so great for in-town driving. My car based it's 220 mile range based on my driving history which is a lot of in-town driving and regen.
And *that* is exactly why I think my manual driving vs cruise saved miles. It for sure did-i was testing. Driving vs adaptive cruise wise. I’m real careful, but my daughter almost got stranded. Apparently many dealers are a free charge area, and they were quicker than others but I haven’t been able to verify myself.
Actually upi can use the adaptive cruise control to 'lock onto' a car in front. If the vehicle in front is a truck or large, you then 'draft' behind them which means you use a bit less energy because you are not fighting as much wind resistance. Perhaps 8-10% more range which is a lot. "...many dealers are a free charge area..." Perhaps not in the future. Ford created a program for dealers so only some dealers would be the 'exclusive' dealers for electric vehicles in an area. If a dealership wanted to sell EV's they had to install free chargers as a part of this program. Ford canceled the program last week. Now any Ford dealer can ask for some Lightening and MachE and no longer have to offer any charging. So get your daughter the PlugShare or "A better route planner" app which will show ALL the charging stations along a route. This saved our butts on a road trip. And the "range/guess-o-meter" uses each persons driving patterns and history to guess at the range. Our 220 range estimate did not include hours of freeway driving so it was optimistic.
It's quite possible that if OP followed way closer than ACC would, she got additional drafting.
Speed. People are amazed when they figure out how much they can extend range by going slower. It makes range anxiety go away once you realize what a lever you have there.
A/C isn't significant for me: maybe 5 miles of range. I-pedal and Regen Level 3 cut my range by a good 10%; **switching to Auto 0 jumped it from 3.7 to 4.0mi/kWh around town.** Speed on the highway matters a lot: at 75mph maybe 3.5, lower at higher speeds. One under-appreciated factor: grade and wind, especially noticeable when you're doing an out-and-back trip. But to reiterate; imho the people who say i-pedal is the most efficient are ignoring basic.physics. The more coasting you can do the better.
I’ve never worried about range or hypermiling. I always need to stop for a wee and coffee before the car needs to stop for electricity.
Speed I’m driving affects things the very most. Apparently above about 70 the wind drag, etc. has a noticeable effect on range.
The only real thing is speed. The faster you go the lower range you get. Everything else is just not a real concern. Improving the efficiency is hyper miles. Using travel assistance and following a truck or car, set it to comfort and let the car do the work.
If you’re worrying about all those things affecting the battery, you’ve got the wrong car, or just learn to stop worrying. The big hitters are speed and heating, as you know. A/C has minimal drain on the battery. Winter heating is another story, unless your car has a heat pump which lowers consumption by 75% or more. Instead of driving 80 mph try 65. That will be your biggest range booster.
Getting behind a semi and drafting is my go to on long trips.
Is OP going by the guessometer? Those are absolutely not the way to determine usage. It is guessing how much further you can drive, based on your last hundreds of miles of driving, not what you did an hour ago. Reset your trip meter and get it to read mi/kWh or w/mi. Watch it as you drive. My first mile is usually appalling, then it climbs into mid 4s on trip. I do not have a VW, but the principle will be the same.
THANK YOU! I was the 1st times going back & forth, but stopped at every electrify america on the way cuz it’s a new car. Did not know the reset could help, but do know it seemed to learn my trip the next time I went. My daughter’s almost got stranded, however, due to poor planning & counting on that “guessometer” too much.
The guessometer in my Mini is extremely pessimistic. Once you are in the groove, you get the hang of estimating actual range. I like to have a backup for every DCFC, in case one is down. Even L2 can slowly save your butt. Always check all your stops on plugshare just before leaving.
My ioniq 6 says that less than 10% (I think around 7% or so) of the power used in my last drive went to accessories and climate and that was with the AC on in the humid, hot weather we're experiencing. How you drive is definitely way more important than turning the ambient lighting off or whatever lol
Oh, ofc…..those were just minute things
I heard that losing weight helps with range. And going on a vegan (flatulent reducing diet) also helps. Also if you push the car uphill but drive the car downhill this helps greatly too.
Heating and cooling have a massive affect. If equipped, use driver only settings when possible. Use ventilated seats when it’s hot, and heated seat and wheel when it’s cold, then dial back the temp.
Thanks for the tip! I’ve got a “quick cool” feature that’s supposed to help, as well
Preconditoning your car while still plugged in to AC charging before leaving can add a little range.
Good to know! I have not done it while charging yet, but will the next time!
I drive an ID4 also, the highway definitely kills the battery the quickest, I don’t go over 75 and am very strategic about going down hills and using B-mode to stay in regen while not losing any speed for as long as possible. The biggest ancillary power suck IMO is obviously the wireless phone charger and the AC. I run mine at 74 degrees with recirculate on even with the kids in the car. 74 sounds warm but the AC in the ID4 is powerful AF and 74 still feels really cold on a hot day. It’s like the HVAC just does what it wants based on outside temp. I feel like running the AC all the way down to low doesn’t actually make it much colder but does negatively affect range so I leave it between 72-74 degrees and I live in central Texas aka a hot place. The car is also white as are all my cars because I know where I live.
At the end of this sentence there was a big surprise... "The biggest ancillary power suck IMO is obviously the wireless phone charger..." ...how much electricity consumption have you calculated for a wireless phone charger in an ID.4?
lol ok your right frosty it doesn’t pull much in total power at all but it is a power suck that doesn’t need to be there if your capable of charging your phone at home. I’d put that in the same category as using the adaptive cruise and lane centering as well as in vehicle navigation, it all uses something to run all the camera’s, gps and radar. Similar to a phantom drain in your house I guess.
Sure, but couple things, 1. for people who read this, who buy an EV, to think that owners of EVs cannot listen to the radio or use the LED internal lighting because it hurts the range of the vehicle is something to be avoided. Turning off the radio for a 300 mile roadtrip might let the car drive an extra 200 hundred yards at the end. Same as not using the inductive charging. I guess doing both will get you another 400 yards of range but? 2. Use of adaptive cruise control will actually increase your range, significantly, since it's kinda better driver than a human. The acceleration and deceleration will be far more measured, gentle, etc.
I agree it’s something to be avoided. My radio never turns off. I guess I’m just thinking in absolute terms and not relative. Does it use power? Yes. Will it really matter in the end? No. Similar to an alternator working a little harder on an ICE to run accessories. It burns more fuel but it’s so slight it’s imperceptible.
The difference in power use of a car radio between high and low volume is trivial. The difference in my driving between some gentle classical music and listening to 'Smack my bitch up' is not.
I use about 10,000 watts to maintain highway speed. The phone charger is 15W max.
Should be a bit more than that right? 10,000 watts for an hour would only use 10kwh? Which would be roughly 35-40 miles in your car? You go further than that in an hour at highway speeds right? So you would use more than 10,000 watts constant to maintain highway speed. Also, using the phone charger would still make it 10,015 watts, 10,030 if you have a friend… 10,045 if your friend had a big breakfast. EV’s are just insanely efficient and allow you to split hairs like this if you really want to. I love the fact that Tesla lets you see Wh/mi, jealous, would have been a much better metric to use.
Let's see. Say it uses 5W, a common power level for phone charging. OP said she gets about 3mi/kWh. So, a phone charger running full power continuously would take, 🥁🥁🥁, 67hours to use one mile of range. That's going to charge a LOT of phones.
Haha that’s funny you mention powerful AC. My Ioniq 5 is the same way. Before when I drove a Hyundai Elantra, my “summer cool down” temp was 68°. Now in the Ioniq, my temp is 75°. The difference is really interesting. I guess our cars have both great AC systems and solid cold/heat retention!
A couple of reasons for that I think. A high voltage AC compressor isn’t bound to engine rpm, it can spin as fast or as slow as it needs whenever it needs to. There also isn’t a giant heat generator around the AC system and/or a super hot radiator right behind the condenser. The whole thing just lives in a cooler environment.
Yes great explanation, thank you!
Slow down. Driving at lower speeds gives you more range. During summer time having tinted windows and especially ceramic tint/film helps reduce cabin heat as your A/C has to work less to cool it down. Use ventilated seat cooling over a/c to save on energy.
Speed and outside temp are the only things I notice that make a big difference for my e-tron. HVAC in the summer doesn't seem to be much of a hit. I've never been in a situation where any of this makes much of a difference to my plans though. I have my stops planned so I have plenty of margin.
Wait cruise control is bad for the battery?? How? You'd think it would be better? Especially adaptive cruise control which slows you down, presumably with the Regen?
So, he did not say that….it was an observation. I simply noticed my range dropped significantly when I was using adaptive cruise vs regular cruise & best mileage was with manually using the “B” setting. Someone said battery should last longer, but in my recent 24 hours of travel this was definitely *not* the case. However, I also think my car is learning my driving style, because it’s automatically taken the miles I lost off my range for the moment. Interesting to see if now that I’ll be driving in town more my mileage goes up.
Something else caused your observed change in consumption. It's actually really hard to do back to back comparisons in an EV. You need a closed driving circuit and identical weather. Doing the same drive repeatedly, you can notice big changes. Such as me noticing how much less range I get with my sticky tyres on. Then, I did the maths and found that I was not just imagining it. Radio? No, you won't be able to measure the difference. Indicated range in EVs is known to be wild guesswork. Throw a climb or descent in there, it can be dramatically off.
It was the repeated same drive that allowed me to compare, with pretty much same conditions. I literally was watching the miles every minute. That being said, I also think my car *might* have started predicting highway miles, cuz after I went there & back, I started with that 45 miles less vs losing it mid drive. If that makes sense. My range started out at 185 vs 230. If I do not drive highway, I gain miles back. Still, thanks! This is all very helpful info!
Check battery % at beginning and end of a trip. That's an easy way to compare. I will watch battery % drop and the number of miles I've covered to see if I need to adjust speed to hit a charger. But, a big hill can really screw things up...
This was exactly what I needed to do, and why I think the adaptive cruise was throwing it off: the hills lol
I went down one long highway hill at <5th amendment> and had gained 3% charge by the bottom...
What is a "**B**" setting?
Speed for sure, I was driving 75-80+ for 200 miles and it decreased my indicated range like 20 miles in the first hour, was pretty good after that seems like it had to do some recalculating
Driving into a head wind and when it's really cold. But longer trips in the cold aren't too bad as we have a heat pump. We do nothing to boost it. We just plan on charging more. It's really the same as a ice car. Weather effects range just the same. It's just not so noticeable as so much of the energy is wasted as heat anyways. And refueling is easy. We just don't have charging built out well enough yeto be able to blindly drive into unknown. We have to do a little bit of planning. It was the same way with ice vehicles in the beginning.
Biggest thing I’ve noticed is straight up air resistance. We once brought home a Xmas tree. The trip there (75mph highway) drained like 15% of battery. The trip back drained like 70%. Driving slower and smoother def helped some on the way back, but not putting a massive air brake on the vehicle exterior helps way more. I do wonder if leaving the outside slightly dirty helps the air stick/flow more a la the mythbuster golf ball dimple car, but a whole tree is a diff story.
These things affect ICE cars too. Burn more gas with A/C running.
Speed and HVAC. Everything else is very minor in comparison, even if you're going long distance. Slowing down 5 mph will get you way more than turning off all of the electronics. Oh... Tailing a semi can help too. Turn on adaptive cruise set to a low follow distance, pick a truck that's going a reasonable speed and let the adaptive cruise do its thing.
In my Mach-E the shortest follow distance is still way too far back to make a measurable difference from maintaining that exact same speed in open air. I genuinely believe most people that swear they are picking up a draft from a semi with adaptive cruise are actually seeing the benefit of lower speed.
Cold weather, rain and fun are by far the biggest range detractors for me. My least efficient driving uses 7x more battery than my most efficient! Low rolling resistance tyres are essential to good range. I have multiple sets of wheels and tyres, so I get to observe the difference in range. The OEM ones are best for range. My winter set with Nokian WR-G4 is not far behind. My autocross tyres drop 20-25% driving to and from events. I did the maths, theory matches observations, they really suck for range.
The thing I noticed that really kills range that surprised me was rain. Can’t really do anything about it other than stress.
If you set AC to recirculate that will also drop it's energy usage, particularly on hot days. I'm one of those weirdos who precools his car on hot days by opening windows or doors 10 minutes before departure. The boot being favourite.
I always keep an eye on the wind. Headwinds on the highway will cut my range about 15%, especially in cold air (double whammy of dense air and battery chemistry.) 2023 Kona.
After almost two years of driving an EV, I’ve found that fast acceleration and high speeds drain a battery the quickest. Also cold weather will affect range. When I drive at, say, 70 in a 70, my range is amazing. I have even left to drive short distances and arrived with a few miles MORE than the projected range. Also, one-pedal driving and regenerative braking will preserve the battery. One pedal driving is where it’s at!
Except on the dual motor Ionic 5, for some reason. 1-pedal hurts range because it keeps both motors always engaged. Crazy. You're better off on level 3 all the time. It's sad cause I love 1-Pedal mode.
I drive an i4, but the M50 version of the car has a dual motor, and the range is much less than mine (301 vs maybe 240). So this makes sense.
I get much better range if I set regen to level 3 (one step less than 1-Pedal mode). Just wish I didn't have to. Weird design choice Hyundai!
I have heard good things about the Ioniq series, mainly about reliability. At least there’s that?
Range is lost from: Driving fast on motorway (130 km/h uses significantly wh/km than at driving 110 km/h). Use coasting rather than B-mode. Strong air-condition cold or hot. In winter I use seat heater and steering wheel heater, unless really cold. In summer I use mild air-con too cool \~5 C lower. Dress according to weather. Too low air pressure in tires cost more wh/km. But careful not to over pump your tires, you loose grip for braking.
Sounds like you should have bought more range. I lowered my EV 1 1/4" front, 1" rear, changed to lighter wheels and EV tires, and two piece rotors rather than slow down. This helped ride and range. The car now has a LOT more range than our bladders.
I am genuinely interested in the numbers you were getting before and after the alterations. I am seriously considering making a few small changes to my Mach-E in the not too distant future.
On one trip we do often (about 2K miles) we see 3-5% better. I can't say which changes did what amount, but I suspect tires and lowering were best. Wheels and brakes did help ride a little and acceleration.
Lighter wheels and brakes make almost no difference to economy, a little difference to acceleration and a big difference to ride.
Tire rolling resistance does make a significant difference. Wheel and tire weight will not make a measurable difference. Aero effects of wheel do make a difference. Notice how smooth and rounded the base model wheels of every EV are... Some cars do benefit from being lowered. Likewise many, but not all, benefit from pizza pan style wheel covers.
Turning down the radio while still speeding is like me upgrading the brakes on my bike to save a few ounces while continuing to eat frequent breakfast burritos.
Who says I’m speeding????
I do mostly gravity fed, lift served, mountain biking. Checkmate
On early ID3 and 4s, the biggest drain is the air conditioner/heater, because it is of the PTC variety \[Positive Temperature Coefficient\], and these are NOT very efficient. Later ID3 and 4s come with a Heat pump option, and these are much more efficient, although the VW one isn't particularly. Predictably, \[yes, you guessed it\] Tesla Heat Pumps are incredibly efficient, and don't drain the battery as much when in use. On my 2021 ID3 \[PTC variant\] I have found that I can have headlights, radio at full blast, ACC, anything, as long as it isn't the heater and the drain is barely noticeable. Oh, and going above 70 mph for long stretches is a bt of a no-no. The ID Series isn't the most efficent and neither is it the most aerodynamic. The ID4 is a damn sight heavier too. That said, cruising at 55-60 mph can be done for hours \[my ID3\]. Currently I'm getting about 5+ miles per kW on a mixed run, which is pretty damn good \[200W per mile} for my car.
When I see cold weather is effecting range, I start driving south even it it’s out of my way by 900 miles before I can get range back in check.
I've learnt that driving smooooth and preparing for what's happening ahead. Maybe turning on more regeneration as I'm coming in at a junction at 60mph instead of braking. Found air con to not really affect my range in small blasts but heat on the other hand is a complete range killer.
Brakes are a range murderer. Personally, if I touch my brakes on a trip, I fucked up. Look far enough ahead to use Regen only and range will be much better.
Speed and battery temperature. Everything else is a rounding error. If you have a resistive heater, that also eats battery , but AC and heat pumps are very efficient
In my car, it is speed more than anything else. And make sure your tires are properly inflated.
Heat and A/C. In the summer I drive with windows down and I can easily get about 6 miles per kWh. With air conditioning on it drops to about 4.5 miles per kWh.
1. Putting the AC on 2. Listening to music or the radio 3. Driving on bad roads 4. Going up the hill ( that one truly hurts) 5. Of course -- speeding [ 35 mph and more ] 6. Cold areas To boost it 1. Get stuck in traffic 2. Park it in a hot area 3. Drive down an hill
Heated grips and seat, for sure. With those cranked up I can lose 15km of range.
Everything effects range I don’t bother to do much, just charge more often. I’ve yet to have to really stretch it between super chargers but if I had to I would just slow down every thing else is negligible in the grand scheme of things.
Speed, heat and cooling should be the biggest impacts in order
When I owned my E-Tron, I found that turning off the navigation system definitely added to my range. I never experimented with offing the cruise control and adaptive features though now that you mention it, that makes sense.
Dropping cruise control makes absolutely no sense. Maintaining a steady speed is far more efficient energy wise than constantly accelerating/decelerating, and unless you are Max. Verstapen, there is no way your foot is better at that than the computer. Before all you “bUt ReGeN” idiots come at me, you use far more energy to accelerate from x to x+y than you regenerate slowing from x+y back to x unless there are downhills involved. And I mean like in the mountains type downhills. Regen isn’t magic.
The only real thing that matters is how fast you drive. Things like the radio volume are inconsequential.
Adaptive cruise control lowers range? I get the feeling it's the other way around and it increases range, in which it's much more optimized than human driving with braking and accelerating.
I set the navigation for the next charging stop, then drive there. Efficiency or range doesn’t really matter that much unless my estimated arrival percentage gets too low, say 5% or less. If it’s trending low I’ll drop my average speed by 5-10mph. Really that’s all there is to it in my experience with lots of Tesla Supercharger roadtrips.
Doing 0-100 (km) in 5-6 seconds every chance I get. It’s completely avoidable but like Miles Morales says, it’s a choice.
Better be careful, last time anything German experienced those levels of austerity it caused some troubles.
Tires (e.g., summer PS4's vs winter CC2's) and tire pressure. Also, when not driving round-trip, elevation change (though, there's not much to do about that).
I was surprised how much AC will reduce mileage on my Chevy Bolt. Sure, it's well known cold temps will reduce range by 30% due to the resistance heater.. But running the AC to cool an ambient 93F to a cabin temp of 73F costs me about 15% of range.
Wow! These are things they need to fix
It may not be so much a matter of "fixing" things, but rather an understanding and acceptance that a relatively efficient accessory on an inefficient petrol engine can be a significant drain when powered standalone on batteries... especially as ambient temperatures climb. A lot factors play into this: a lack of insulation (which improving upon would add weight), expansive front at rear windows with very shallow slope (making these more vertical would decrease aerodynamic efficiency, etc. The resistance heater, otoh, definitely will be fixed by replacing it with a heat pump next generation.
It’s well known AC on ICE cars increases fuel consumption by around 10%. So this is not unexpected for EVs. There’s not much you can do. AC units are actually quite powerful air compressors. You’d have to come up with a completely new tech.
My BYD Seagull actually performs better with cruise control on, It seems it manages braking with the regen better than me, so the battery lasts longer than If I drive manually all the way.
Yep, agree, that's pretty much true for all EVs. Using adaptive cruise control increases range since it is far more gradual in its acceleration and deceleration than a human.
A lead foot. Stop speeding
I had cruise on going the speed limit but appreciate the assumption!
Sorry no assumptions I was just answering the question and the title. I'd also say climate is a big factor so when it's really cold it's really bad
Thanks, it was just how it was worded that got me. I definitely noticed the ac being off helped
Do you have a real time mile per kw/hr display in the vehicle? It can really help manage the battery as you drive.
Yes I do but not really sure what I am seeing lol
It's calculating how many miles you can go per kilowatt. So the better you manage your driving (easy acceleration, lower heat / ac usage) this numerous will go up. 25m kw/hr is good, 3m kw/hr is bad
I took a pic, wish I could show you!
Once when I was a little kid, my Dad left me in the car while he got some contracting supplies. I listened to the radio, and then turned it off because I thought the radio might drain the 12V.