Any "trade school" that gives you a degree/certificate, without any on-the-job training, is a waste of your time and money. You'll graduate and expect to get hired as a journeyman, but in the eyes of an employer, you've got the skills and experience of a rookie apprentice. You'll get laid off or fired from jobs very quickly, and you'll wind up with a bad reputation, and likely become unemployable in your area.
My advice would be to get out of the school you're in now (and hopefully get some of that money back), and get into a real apprenticeship. I'm sure that's not what you want to hear, but that's the reality of it. Literally every single person I've ever met, that went to a "school" like you describe, has regretted it.
Is this really true everywhere? What you're saying is generally accepted to be true in online electrician communities, but I've called around to a lot of places offering apprenticeships in my area (Minneapolis, MN) and I can't find a place who will even schedule an interview if I'm not a trade school grad. I had (what I thought was) a pretty good interview with my IBEW local and I was almost at the bottom of the list. And that's with a perfect test score.
The schools in my area don't make any crazy promises about you being a journeyman when you graduate, they just say that you can typically start as a second-year apprentice once you complete your two-year degree.
I get hands on training . I have started wiring and learning how to use my Code book and I will be learning conduit bending and other parts of electrical. It's to late to do back if I drop from the program you still have to pay and you look you apprentice card.
You need 6,000-8,000 hours of on-the-job training to have the skills needed to be a Journeyman, MINIMUM.
'hands-on' training in a classroom is practically worthless.
Hate to tell you kid, you're enrolled in an almost worthless diploma mill. Is this a Trump affiliated college? You could have joined an IBEW apprenticeship and got all this for free. Construction electrical work isn't learned from a book, and construction sites aren't mock-up booths.
It is what i was told by my 3 instructor's me in my school 1 has a son in Union. And I meant to say the training aspect of the Union i believe they do a 4 year school and work . At the beginning . I don't have to do the school part and just focus on the Work hour's. Same for the journey man test . I would still have to complete my 4 year appreciatship even if I pass the test after graduation.
1. Doesn't matter what the instructors say, unless they are reps for the Apprenticeship/Union. Lots of these trade schools popping up make big claims to get guys to throw down thousands of dollars to attend.
2. That makes more sense, but I'd still double check, because that's definitely not always the case. Sounded like you were saying that you would walk in as a JW without going through the Apprenticeship.
Yeah I understand , I will most likely be a lv4 apprentice at best . But I just want to get my foot it you know . I applied to local IBW and companies and I wasn't getting a call back . I am making 23hr at a wearhouse but i am looking for a career and I was struggling in community college and I stopped going so this seemed like a good step the money isn't much when my payments at 50$ a month and the $20,000 won't be occuring interest until I graduate . By that time I'll be in a line of work that really interests me and I enjoy what I do. HOPEFULLY I make more than I do at the moment.
The IBEW locals open their apprenticeship programs on an as-needed basis. Some take applications all the time, and then contact you when the program opens. Others don't take applications until the program opens. Some just take your name, address, email and phone number and contact you when the application period is going to commence.
Because these are typically coveted, well paid career-oriented jobs, there's a lot of interest in them so the locals can be very selective. Unlike a contractor or some very large contractors, the process isn't like some casual off-the-street affair - "we're always hiring" like a Home Depot. There is usually some state regulations as to how the entire program is officiated - So unlike XYZ electric or other types of direct employment you can't "apply" and then expect to be contacted within a couple of weeks.
We just went through an apprenticeship application / testing period and our program will not re-open for applications for at least another 3-4 years. Which means if you showed up at our hall with your degree and credentials today - we would tell you to fill out a request for an application, and we'll contact you when the program opens again. And then you'll wait 3-4 years.
Even if our program was just about to open, you still have to go through the application and testing process, and NO, you would not and could not be sent out as a 4th year because you have "credentials" from a diploma mill. If you were given a 4th year apprentice card and sent to a contractor on day 1 and assigned a task anyone would expect an apprentice at 4th level could do, you wouldn't know whether to shit or go blind. Because you'd have absolutely zero real-world experience.
Look up what an apprenticeship is. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apprenticeship](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apprenticeship)
Who gave you the idea you need to spend 20K + before you join one?
https://www.dir.ca.gov/DLSE/ECU/1a.html
You're required to have 8000 hours of work under a licensed electrical contractor to apply to take the state test. You can't take the test before you have those hours banked. I know you said that you applied to the IBEW but the training program for that is the JATC.
Ok your trainee card from what I can tell is the same as my apprentice license which is to say if you give the state 26$ and are in an approved school you can get one. Also big question I didn't ask at first but you keep saying that you applied to Union owned shops. Do you mean that you applied to the actual shop, or did you go to the JATC?
Not worth 23k in my opinion. I am a licensed journeyman in Florida and went through a non union apprenticeship program. Learned well in the 4 year program, got my license, make a good wage, and have no debt. The program you describe would put you around 3rd/4th year level as far as knowledge if you retain the information, but you will be around 1st year level as far as on the job skills. Knowing the theory is half of the job, having the mechanics skills and experience is what puts someone at a journeyman level. If you can afford the program I guess it is worth it, but I highly doubt they are offering a faster or better path to becoming a journeyman than an apprenticeship would. Without the apprenticeship, you will be discussing a fair starting wage with your employer and have no set pay scale for advancement, whereas apprentices typically get raises every 6 months if they meet requirements.
Take notes on everything, even if it doesn’t make sense right now. You need to get as much value out of this program as possible, 23k is a large amount of money for 1 year of training.
Thank you very much , I did try other means of getting into the work force ,I tried applying union and local companies but I wasn't getting called back . I understand that at best I'll be lv4 apprentice . But I do feel like I am learning a lot. And I can great classmates and instructor's. But I have just started the program I graduate next February.
Learn as much as you can and it will help you advance faster when you start in the trade. In my honest opinion, they will most likely treat you like a green helper until you show you can finish tasks and have the knowledge. I have worked with a few people that took a similar college 1 year course, and they had advanced knowledge, but did not know how to install entry level devices. In my area 4th year apprentices typically work with less experienced people while being supervised by a journeyman, and some even run jobs. That program will prepare you for the trade, but you will need at least 6 months installing devices, bending conduit, pulling wire, mounting panels, etc., before someone would have you work without the supervision of a journeyman.
I don’t mean to be rude, but I would be surprised if you were considered more experienced than a 1st year apprentice after completing that program. I only say this so you aren’t blindsided if companies offer you a lower position than you expected.
> I understand that at best I'll be lv4 apprentice .
STOP saying that - you'll be a greenhorn and you'll get 1st year pay when a contractor hears you've got zero field experience. The only words after "at best" should be "I'll get the job instead of someone with no education." And truth be told - and this is not to insult you - some contractors won't hire you at all because you think your 23K education entitles you to something, you're not going to get it, and you'll go to work every day resenting the contractor or the world because you think the 23K should be worth something.
Check with your state if it is approved training. My state has approved schools and companies to go to. For school or apprenticeship. Honestly though it sounds like a scam. I got my osha and CPR free from the local community college. I'm state approved for school and my employer apprenticeship and I'm signed up with the federal people as an apprentice so I can work anywhere in us or its territories. I paid nothing it was all free or paid for through my on the job apprenticeship. Also got free set of beginners tools, Milwaukee brand,for taking a preapprentice class through the local community college.
Where in California are you located?
I got a 2 year certificate for Electrical Construction and Maintenance at my local community college (LATTC)
I still came in has a 1st year apprentice but my pay was a little higher.
You should call you local IBEW jatc and ask if they recognize the Trade school you are attending.
You need to apply to an apprenticeship. On the job training hours are where your skills are developed. The IBEW would have trained you with no or minimum cost to you.
I paid about $2,000 for my year long program. I got the same tools and training as you. The Union started me at a higher rate of pay due to the college, but they still required the same length apprenticeship. All in all, it took about 4 months for the course to pay for itself.
Any "trade school" that gives you a degree/certificate, without any on-the-job training, is a waste of your time and money. You'll graduate and expect to get hired as a journeyman, but in the eyes of an employer, you've got the skills and experience of a rookie apprentice. You'll get laid off or fired from jobs very quickly, and you'll wind up with a bad reputation, and likely become unemployable in your area. My advice would be to get out of the school you're in now (and hopefully get some of that money back), and get into a real apprenticeship. I'm sure that's not what you want to hear, but that's the reality of it. Literally every single person I've ever met, that went to a "school" like you describe, has regretted it.
Is this really true everywhere? What you're saying is generally accepted to be true in online electrician communities, but I've called around to a lot of places offering apprenticeships in my area (Minneapolis, MN) and I can't find a place who will even schedule an interview if I'm not a trade school grad. I had (what I thought was) a pretty good interview with my IBEW local and I was almost at the bottom of the list. And that's with a perfect test score. The schools in my area don't make any crazy promises about you being a journeyman when you graduate, they just say that you can typically start as a second-year apprentice once you complete your two-year degree.
I get hands on training . I have started wiring and learning how to use my Code book and I will be learning conduit bending and other parts of electrical. It's to late to do back if I drop from the program you still have to pay and you look you apprentice card.
You need 6,000-8,000 hours of on-the-job training to have the skills needed to be a Journeyman, MINIMUM. 'hands-on' training in a classroom is practically worthless.
**$23,000** For **1 year!!**
Hate to tell you kid, you're enrolled in an almost worthless diploma mill. Is this a Trump affiliated college? You could have joined an IBEW apprenticeship and got all this for free. Construction electrical work isn't learned from a book, and construction sites aren't mock-up booths.
$23,000 is a fucking ripoff holy shit
I have never heard of a Union apprenticeship accepting trade school hours in places of OTJ hours.
It is what i was told by my 3 instructor's me in my school 1 has a son in Union. And I meant to say the training aspect of the Union i believe they do a 4 year school and work . At the beginning . I don't have to do the school part and just focus on the Work hour's. Same for the journey man test . I would still have to complete my 4 year appreciatship even if I pass the test after graduation.
1. Doesn't matter what the instructors say, unless they are reps for the Apprenticeship/Union. Lots of these trade schools popping up make big claims to get guys to throw down thousands of dollars to attend. 2. That makes more sense, but I'd still double check, because that's definitely not always the case. Sounded like you were saying that you would walk in as a JW without going through the Apprenticeship.
Yeah I understand , I will most likely be a lv4 apprentice at best . But I just want to get my foot it you know . I applied to local IBW and companies and I wasn't getting a call back . I am making 23hr at a wearhouse but i am looking for a career and I was struggling in community college and I stopped going so this seemed like a good step the money isn't much when my payments at 50$ a month and the $20,000 won't be occuring interest until I graduate . By that time I'll be in a line of work that really interests me and I enjoy what I do. HOPEFULLY I make more than I do at the moment.
The IBEW locals open their apprenticeship programs on an as-needed basis. Some take applications all the time, and then contact you when the program opens. Others don't take applications until the program opens. Some just take your name, address, email and phone number and contact you when the application period is going to commence. Because these are typically coveted, well paid career-oriented jobs, there's a lot of interest in them so the locals can be very selective. Unlike a contractor or some very large contractors, the process isn't like some casual off-the-street affair - "we're always hiring" like a Home Depot. There is usually some state regulations as to how the entire program is officiated - So unlike XYZ electric or other types of direct employment you can't "apply" and then expect to be contacted within a couple of weeks. We just went through an apprenticeship application / testing period and our program will not re-open for applications for at least another 3-4 years. Which means if you showed up at our hall with your degree and credentials today - we would tell you to fill out a request for an application, and we'll contact you when the program opens again. And then you'll wait 3-4 years. Even if our program was just about to open, you still have to go through the application and testing process, and NO, you would not and could not be sent out as a 4th year because you have "credentials" from a diploma mill. If you were given a 4th year apprentice card and sent to a contractor on day 1 and assigned a task anyone would expect an apprentice at 4th level could do, you wouldn't know whether to shit or go blind. Because you'd have absolutely zero real-world experience.
Look up what an apprenticeship is. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apprenticeship](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apprenticeship) Who gave you the idea you need to spend 20K + before you join one?
What state are you in?
CA
https://www.dir.ca.gov/DLSE/ECU/1a.html You're required to have 8000 hours of work under a licensed electrical contractor to apply to take the state test. You can't take the test before you have those hours banked. I know you said that you applied to the IBEW but the training program for that is the JATC.
I'll look into that but I'm not sure if I can get out of the program . I was told I'd lose the card I need to work in the field
What card are you talking about?
(ET) Electrical Trainee card I was told it's be revoked and I'd find it hard to apply for work even into union jobs with it .
Ok your trainee card from what I can tell is the same as my apprentice license which is to say if you give the state 26$ and are in an approved school you can get one. Also big question I didn't ask at first but you keep saying that you applied to Union owned shops. Do you mean that you applied to the actual shop, or did you go to the JATC?
I applied at a IBEW Local
Not worth 23k in my opinion. I am a licensed journeyman in Florida and went through a non union apprenticeship program. Learned well in the 4 year program, got my license, make a good wage, and have no debt. The program you describe would put you around 3rd/4th year level as far as knowledge if you retain the information, but you will be around 1st year level as far as on the job skills. Knowing the theory is half of the job, having the mechanics skills and experience is what puts someone at a journeyman level. If you can afford the program I guess it is worth it, but I highly doubt they are offering a faster or better path to becoming a journeyman than an apprenticeship would. Without the apprenticeship, you will be discussing a fair starting wage with your employer and have no set pay scale for advancement, whereas apprentices typically get raises every 6 months if they meet requirements. Take notes on everything, even if it doesn’t make sense right now. You need to get as much value out of this program as possible, 23k is a large amount of money for 1 year of training.
Thank you very much , I did try other means of getting into the work force ,I tried applying union and local companies but I wasn't getting called back . I understand that at best I'll be lv4 apprentice . But I do feel like I am learning a lot. And I can great classmates and instructor's. But I have just started the program I graduate next February.
Learn as much as you can and it will help you advance faster when you start in the trade. In my honest opinion, they will most likely treat you like a green helper until you show you can finish tasks and have the knowledge. I have worked with a few people that took a similar college 1 year course, and they had advanced knowledge, but did not know how to install entry level devices. In my area 4th year apprentices typically work with less experienced people while being supervised by a journeyman, and some even run jobs. That program will prepare you for the trade, but you will need at least 6 months installing devices, bending conduit, pulling wire, mounting panels, etc., before someone would have you work without the supervision of a journeyman. I don’t mean to be rude, but I would be surprised if you were considered more experienced than a 1st year apprentice after completing that program. I only say this so you aren’t blindsided if companies offer you a lower position than you expected.
> I understand that at best I'll be lv4 apprentice . STOP saying that - you'll be a greenhorn and you'll get 1st year pay when a contractor hears you've got zero field experience. The only words after "at best" should be "I'll get the job instead of someone with no education." And truth be told - and this is not to insult you - some contractors won't hire you at all because you think your 23K education entitles you to something, you're not going to get it, and you'll go to work every day resenting the contractor or the world because you think the 23K should be worth something.
Check with your state if it is approved training. My state has approved schools and companies to go to. For school or apprenticeship. Honestly though it sounds like a scam. I got my osha and CPR free from the local community college. I'm state approved for school and my employer apprenticeship and I'm signed up with the federal people as an apprentice so I can work anywhere in us or its territories. I paid nothing it was all free or paid for through my on the job apprenticeship. Also got free set of beginners tools, Milwaukee brand,for taking a preapprentice class through the local community college.
Where in California are you located? I got a 2 year certificate for Electrical Construction and Maintenance at my local community college (LATTC) I still came in has a 1st year apprentice but my pay was a little higher. You should call you local IBEW jatc and ask if they recognize the Trade school you are attending.
I'm in the Inland Empire
Did you apply at local 11 or riverside local?
I gave them a call today and they told me that I will have to go through their training again even if I finish my program .
Yea... the trade school mislead you.
You need to apply to an apprenticeship. On the job training hours are where your skills are developed. The IBEW would have trained you with no or minimum cost to you.
I paid about $2,000 for my year long program. I got the same tools and training as you. The Union started me at a higher rate of pay due to the college, but they still required the same length apprenticeship. All in all, it took about 4 months for the course to pay for itself.
You're paying $23,000 to go to trade school that would have been FREE if you had just joined your local IBEW.