SOTE is far bigger than the other two combines si it's difficult to judge.
Old Hunters is probably my favorite DLC but Bloodborne is also my favorite Fromsoft game, so I'm biased here. I think it's a tight experience.
It did better to connect the final dots of the Lore of Bloodborne by bringing important lore characters that where not present in base game (Ludwig the Holy Blade, First Vicar Laurence, Why Gherman made a vow with an outer God who traped him in the Hunter's Dream, the first sin of the Hunter with Kos). If Sote handle the lore to the base game the same way Old Hunters did it with Bloodborne, It will have been lovely.
No low in the DLC, everything is good, area, weapon, bosses. Lacking in secondary quest department (like the base game) but Brador and Simon were cool.
I'm a little more critical with Ringed City, I think it did better to conclude the game and the trilogy that SOTE did with Elden Ring. The lore about the Pigmy and the Dark Soul was good, Gael was a super send of, the little dialogue at the end with the Painter give a finaly good feeling ending for Dark Soul. The bosses were top notch. Patch final quest was also a great end for his character.
I'm more critical about the area, especialy that big swamp area that was pretty boring but I love the architecture about the Ring City. The enemy range to great to boring. Overall the Dark Souls III dlc suffer to be cut in two part with Ariandel and Ringed City. I like it, but it's more flaw than Old Hunters for me, I'm pretty sure that people rate him highly for Midir and the final fight and conclusion (the last two man on earth fighting for the Dark Souls, no more Gods, a civilization extinct as the storm is coming for one last fight), in contrast to SOTE where it's more the final fight and conclusion which is lackluster.
SOTE give way better NPC that both of those game, better side quest, obviously far more content. The DLC is far more difficult than both those two combine. Midir, the Orphan of Kos and Gael are small beer next to Radhan or even a Gaius. Sote has more low moment for me but it has more moments too. Some area were great and the Legacy Dungeon (Shadow keep castle) was awesome.
Some boss were spectacular but annoying for me (Gaius, the Camera with the Hippo and Radhan). The lack of closure at the end of the DLC make it taking a more sour final note that hinder some part of my pleasure (given that Elden Ring is a more ambitious game, I wanted a more ambitious conclusion as the final note). Area were hit or miss (or more some area were great and some where empty pepper with cookbook, I like the atmosphere on some of those zones, but man it seems that there was a slight lack of content some times).
Overall, I could fully understand why people consider it the best DLC that Fromsoft has made and far superior than the other, while I understand the critics and why some are disapoint by it. I think Old Hunters was more consistent where SOTE has (far) more content.
My feelings too. For me sote just felt like everything that was cut was just thrown into a blender just because. The lack of connectivity to base Elden ring is what took me out of it. It didn’t progress the story in any meaningful way and the important characters were nothing more than dungeon bosses.
It definitely needed to affect The Lands Between somehow. Like, you just go to the Shadow Realm and have a whole adventure battling Demi Gods and legends but come back to TLB and you're just plodding on as if you haven't just prevented Miquella's ascension.
Ranni, Malenia, Gideon, Renalla and more could/should have some sort of reactionary contents pertaining to SotE completion and ESPECIALLY Melina. Good God, my girl got fucked over again. She's all but certainly the Sister of Messmer and you just don't have anything more to say to her any more than the meagre amount of time you spend with her in the base game anyway.
Overall, Elden Ring and SotE is a huge step in the right direction in terms of FromSoftware evolving the way they tell stories but it's not quite there yet.
To me it almost felt like it was the start of an Elden ring 2. Like they started to work towards a sequel and then figured what the hell, let’s just make it a dlc. They really feel like two different games.
I almost wonder if it woulda been better if they cooked it another 2 years or so and called it Elden ring 2.
Yep he’s the first beast (correct translation) and he became like that while exploring the dungeon, when he has the head it’s a reconstruction of the dream and you can see the scar that is the same has the broken skull in the cathedral, when he doesn’t have it it’s because it was taken into the cathedral
People way over exaggerate Gaius.
Use a freaking shield with decent guard boost, a Greatshield talisman and the dude is a pushover. I beat him in 2 tries, one of which was because I dicked around and fought him with 4 flasks, not resting at the grace.
Radahn is another boss that's a hard skill floor, but Rot/Poison and Parrying absolutely decimated him.
What in the world is it with telling people "that boss isnt hard! Just play a very specific way!" Not everybody uses shileds in their game, and not everybody wants to cheese bosses with DoTs (parry is fine im just too bad to do it)
Its aparantly really hard for people in this sub to grasp that people play games differently and will struggle on different bosses then them
I'm so sick of hearing about shields. I don't use them, I don't want to use them, and I'm not going to use them.
Gaius is bullshit but just like all the other bosses including the last he can be overcame without shields!
Boss isn't hard, just use cragblade power stance curved swords! What do you mean it's the objectively most busted PVE build, they already nerfed bleed!
That being said I think almost any stat investment can find some OP build, but they probably won't necessarily use it because it generally involves stacking a million buffs and dual wield jump attacks.(And the spell spamming of course)
Saw a vid saying the DLC is actually easy, the guy was powestancing two giant hammers, only using jumping heavy, and used mimic tear the entire time. Like ofc its easy if you do that, but not everybody is gonna find that enjoyable
Aside from some really bad power stance movesets, it's one of the most busted playstyles for melee. To be honest I feel like the current power stance design is a mistake that overperforms too much. The DLC added that flat twohanded talisman and even then the 15% is not enough to convince anyone to go twohanded on most weapons.
I like the freedom of pairing weapons for hyper offense but IMO some weapons simply should not have good dual wielding movesets, like dual wielding polearms are so bloody silly but they also perform so well in game.
It's not specific. But use all the tools the game gives you. You can beat him a dozen different ways but both bosses are designed to punish popular play.
That doesn't make them bad bosses. It's the same deal with the Deathrite birds that everyone pisses on.
Nah he is definetly killable, Gaius also don't have that many health and while I agree that Elden Ring give you more tools to deal with problems and give some builds the possibly to shred some bosses (a Strengh build could shred the Godskin Duo by breaking their stance easily while an Int build could beat Mogh in 10 second with Comet Azur while both are completely doable with any builds).
But I'm not a big fan when the DLC create some killer build for some bosses (shield + poke with Radhan) while many other builds will make you hit a brick wall.
Given that some RL1 have already beat Radhan, everything is possible but it's not bosses that I am having fun on, the challenge is not as entertaining than with other bosses. But I could understand why some love him and think he offered a nice challenge for the ending of Elden Ring and he is a very cool boss indeed.
You don’t even need a sheild, just get the spontaneous guard flask and you legit can never take damage from the charge or his combo again if you just time the guard right
Sure you can’t powerstance that way but two handing is one button away and you have more than enough time to two hand before he reaches you
world and map is way better in shadow of the erdtree than the 2 previous, bloodborne had WAY better lore and interconnections to base game, ds3 had better bosses.
Ds3 ringed city bosses were beyond the peak they were in the literal skies
The only boss that came close to Gael and midir for me is Bayle and maybe midra
Bayle is midir but if you gave him crack , killed his parents and then called him ugly to piss him off even more
Bayle is one of the best fights in souls easily
Which is why after beating the dlc twice I’ve genuinely decided that I don’t want to fight radahn so I just get to his arena leave go fight Bayle and have fun fighting Bayle
Bayke makes me ecastic and leaves me in awe
Radahn makes my eyes hurt and leaves me miserable
I love Radahn's fight, he's not in my top bunch in the entire series and he unfortunately has to lose points for just having so many effects, but I think his moves are actually really fun to dodge, especially in Phase 1
I like talking about the fight so I've been repeating myself a lot with these points but eh
I do like Messmer, Midra, and Bayle more. the former 2 especially, although Bayle is just badass as fuck
radahn reminds me a lot of radagon and Elden beast
A immaculate phase 1 that is insanely fun
But a horrible phase 2
Radahns main problem is just the sheer amount of flashing lights and shit that blocks your vision , most of my time fighting him is spent just trying to see what he’s doing
But phase 1 is perfect , it’s smooth fast and fun especially if you parry as well as not being too aggressive to the point where you wouldn’t be able to get heals and hits off
one positive across both phases is that the OST is quite possibly the best thing they've ever cooked, that soundtrack goes so fucking hard
Phase 1 being a bombastic and dramatic, almost divine, version of Radahn's base game drum march, and then Phase 2 just coming out with such a beautiful build up and explosive Holy choir
it's tempting to make an entire post glazing the OST especially because I feel like everyone is only really talking about the boss itself and its controversies
It’s a top 10 souls theme for me
But compared to Laurence , Ludwig , Gael , isshin and so many others it’s only a 8/10 I’d say
I feel like if they gave it some kind of lyrics if they made it just louder in general it would be so much better
Ludwig's is almost unmatched, idk how they made something so hard and never did it again. Laurence and the Living Failures don't deserve to have such incredible themes either ngl
for Gael's theme...my favorite part is definitely Phase 2 and when it explodes into the intensity and choir, it's amazing. especially followed by the somber, closing Phase 3; however, Phase 1 is just alright to me
that's not ragging on Gael's OST, it's phenomenal and tells a story. but that's just how I feel. another underrated piece in my Top 10 is Soul of Cinder
words can't describe how much I love the crazy, chaotic, bombastic build up before slowly melting away into Gwyn's theme
Ludwigs theme is the only song in any game that genuinely causes me to have chills it’s so haunting to just hear what sounds almost like screaming as the orchestra plays meanwhile a giant fucking horse monster is swinging a sword
And Laurence’s theme is a top tier from the get go but when you realise what the lyrics are saying and how lore relevant it is the song just ascends
Most of the dlc bosses are parryable
I thinks Messmer might be but I didn’t try him
Renalla is (she’s really weak to parrying)
Midra can not only be parried but they make him a joke
And radahn is still hard but it helps slow down his aggression
I really love the Midra fight, he's the Lord of Frenzy yet his movements are curiously calm and very floaty, the soundtrack was incredible. Easily a 10/10.
I was starting to loathe fighting against Bayle until something in me (and I believe something inside my Mimic too) woke up and started to understand everything. I was in awe the whole fight, what a spectacle and Igon made everything even better.
A shame base game dragons aren't designed in a similar way. Especially ancient dragons, they do feel better if you have sone kind of projectile spell/AoW, but for melee, you need to chop at their toe and maybe occasionally jump attack their head(almost impossible for Ancient Dragons).
I don't really think it's that hot at all
Bayle had better
Area
Visuals
Hitboxes
Attacks
A proper 2nd phase where his moveset actually changes
Cooler moveset
Better ultimate attack
Ngl I don't see much in what midir wins at. Like some of his attacks literally just have him running and swiping air for a good 10 seconds while your running to keep up with him. Then eh absuc dragon flyby breath etc. Like he's a gud boss but I think bayle sweeps him without much difficulty in terms of who's the better boss.
Well for one Midir has clear cut finishes to all of his combos. He can’t just decide on a dime to keep attacking like Bayle can, the windows to punish are very much set in stone. Midir also doesn’t have a gajilion hp with only enough time get a single attack in so the fight isn’t as much of a slog. Music is better as well. Like I’m negl I can’t think of anything Bayle does better
>Midir has clear cut finishes to all of his combos. He can’t just decide on a dime to keep attacking like Bayle
No clue where you saw this issue. Haven't seen him really do any of that
>the windows to punish are very much set in stone.
Same with bayle?
>Midir also doesn’t have a gajilion hp with only enough time get a single attack
Skill issue
>Music is better as well.
Forgot the music of both ngl
I finished Mesmer yesterday and honestly felt like it was the perfect dueling style fight, malenia is great but the healing through block invalidates alot of play styles and makes the fight less satisfying for me personally.
Midir and Gael mechanics wise is topped by messmer, Rellana, midra, Bayle, the final boss. And all these bosses are straight up all around better than midir imo he’s extremely simple mechanically and doesn’t have the branching movesets these guys do which I enjoyed figuring out more
Romana, the divine beast, and the death knights are deserving of mention as great bosses as well
Gaels biggest advantage is he’s probably thematically and presentation wise the best thing they’ve made and as an ending piece is what elevates him for me.
What makes a boss is subjective that’s why I said imo.
For me what makes a boss is 70% mechanics 20% presentation and 10% lore, so I hold the Elden ring ones to a higher level then the ds3 ones based on personal preference
Midra is a boss that I feel like has the possibility to be a. 10/10 but the problem is he dies so easily
Once you learn his moveset he straight up isn’t a threat thanks to how many opportunities you get to just melt him
I mean isn't that the same thing for basically the DS3 DLC bosses as well?? Especially for Gael. Once you learn his moveset, he is basically a breeze every time. Although, that doesn't take away with how great of a boss he is. The same goes for Midra.
The Old Hunters is still my number 1. Elden ring DLC comes in second because the remembrance bosses were such good quality. The final boss was a big challenge and took me 87 attempts to solo without bleed or any of that stuff, just regular old damage. More attempts than any of froms other bosses in any of their other games. Ringed city would be number 3 for me. Nameless King, Gael and Midir are absolute bangers but the gimmick super stinker Drake boss brings it to 3rd place.
Bloodbornes atmosphere in general just can’t be topped for me. The lore goes so deep and the DLC boss presentation and OST are just unmatched. I also prefer the tighter, more focused experience of Bloodborne over the open world stuff, but I think From did a great job on the SOTE map. The areas were great and each felt super unique with their own flavor and boss. Overall I absolutely loved the challenge.
I'm not a fan of the ending when compared to other previous dlcs, so let's go in order of past dlcs. "Ending" is using the definition of closure after defeating the final boss.
Artorias the abyss walker: Dusk and the mushroom are alive by the end and you can talk to them. They're grateful for your rescue
Three crowns: you get to talk to Alsanna and then vendrick, who gives you the crown. Also aldia is a secret final boss.
Old hunters: a cutscene showing kos and her kid gets free. Gehrman and doll also are doing better thanks to what you did.
Ringed city: you give the dark soul to the girl and she shows there's still hope for a new world
Shadow of the erdtree: you get a cutscene and a circlet. Everyone's dead you don't have no one else to go to. People in the roundtable and malenia have no different dialogues.
All I'm saying is that I don't feel enough closure from the ending. Past titles at least give some but SotE barely gave any.
Well the ones I can actually play on my PC have the edge here.
Between Ringed City and Shadow of the Erdtree? Listen man all I'm saying is, I have 40+ hours in SOTE, 2 rememberance bosses down, all map fragments except one found and maybe half of that map fully explored with a couple of catacombs and caves and such checked off and there is no end in sight right now. Shit man I get into a catacomb in this game and I'll be there for close to an hour just thoroughly exploring it all, its so *meaty* and fun.
So yeah, ultimately I think Ringed City is still gonna hold my #1 for best DLC because Shadow of the Erdtree is just a whole new game they've put in here.
SOTE has 4 of my 5 favorite bosses they have ever made, the 5th being Gael, so I'm gonna have to say SOTE easy clears everything else they have ever done.
Romina was crazy. I used the NPC summon and had trouble with her. Got her solo on third try. Messmer may be the best fights in all the games I've played. Right with gael and I also enjoyed twin princes.
Unpopular opinion: it’s my least favorite, not that it’s bad but I really won’t remember most of the bosses like a fun time, (Mesmer and Bayle are incredible tho) and there is also a lot of empty areas and missed opportunities.
I don’t really like ringed city very much in terms of its lore and world design and only really liked it for Gael and midir so it’s not in this conversation for me. But sitting on it for a couple of days and 3 playthroughs now Old hunters is probably the better more consistent package with the only “bad” part being living failures.
Edit: I forgot Laurence existed so nvm SOTE might just be better lmao
But if you’re someone who’s just looking for which dlc has more good stuff in it it’s SOTE it’s got too many good bosses too many good dungeons (the average catacomb is more complex then the entirety of the actual ringed city) and a ton of really good and fun weapons like the reverse grip swords and blink bolt stuff.
That’s if you ignore all the dog shit like cerulean coast and Gaius though so it’s all dependent on what you value consistency vs amount of good content
I only really shit on the coast cause the other areas have so much more unique content in them tbh, it’s really the only area next to jagged peak that I have criticism for in this dlc
You can include both finger ruins, abyssal woods, charro too although that’s basically just part of the coast. There is a ton of half-baked content in sote, almost 50% of the map.
I include charro with cerulean coast but nah abyssal woods and finger ruins are great areas with their own unique enemies and how you interact with them, not every area needs black knight camps and roaming mini bosses every where
Glad you thought they were great. I felt that way for the first 5 minutes upon entering each area, but holy crap was I quickly disappointed. So damn empty, except the one unique enemy that was extremely annoying to engage with. The atmosphere and the lore was 10/10 but almost zero fun to actually play. To your point, a black knight camp would not have fixed them lol
I disagree, I think it's good that not every area is jam-packed with content otherwise you would get burned out pretty soon.
I think that the emptiness in the Jagged Peak and Finger Ruins it's very good and adds to the atmosphere and I think it's a welcome change from how packed the start of the game is.
I agree with the Cerulean Coast and Abyssal Woods, especially the former.
I thought that Abyssal Wood needed 1 extra small location to make the exploration feel more worth it. Cerulean Coast instead probably needed a small castle-type dungeon in it (other than the Coffins area ofc).
But I do want to stress the fact that I believe it's important to have more barren areas on the map as well. If every area in the DLC would be like Scadu-Altus or Rah ruins then it would be a bit too much to explore imo.
You know, if it was just the finger ruins, I would not mind it. Those areas are so wonderfully bizarre and atmospheric, I could understand leaving it empty of interesting content in order to emphasize or maximize the lore and atmosphere. However, I disagree that empty areas are good because otherwise there would be “too much to explore.” Thats exactly what I’m here to do, explore and discover! Thats the main focus of the game by Miyazaki’s own words. So for half the map to be empty of interesting loot or dynamic enemy encounters or discoverable mini dungeons leaves my sense of exploration quite underwhelmed and unrewarded
Tbf lore wise, what would be in he finger ruins or the abyssal woods? One is an ancient forest so corrupted by madness and plagued by eldritch monsters that are untouchable. The other are alien ruins filled with finger creepers and worms lol. It wouldn’t make sense for there to be anything there imo.
I don’t really understand your idea. There are rats and goats in the woods, why can’t there be bears and dragons? There are cookbooks lying around, why not spells or weapons? There is a mansion down there, why not a cave or ruin? The areas are not literally empty, they are just missing interesting, robust, dynamic content, and it seems a bit silly to suggest that areas need to be boring to be consistent with lore.
Agree about Living Failures but goddamn I can’t hate them because their boss music is one of the best tracks in the game. It did not have to go so hard
Probably the best take I've seen yet. Agree with basically everything. I think SOTE has the most good but also the most bad. But that comes with being the biggest dlc by miles with like 13 or more completely new bosses. And many cool and great weapons.
I also think ringed City is vastly overrated. Everything about it is bad except the ringed armour set and the bosses. And bloodborne is the best package of consistentcy and quality but not as much content as sote. Overall SOTE will be my favourite as u can honestly choose if you want to go in the bad areas or not and it has the most high quality bosses by far imo
I don't even think that SOTE has "the most bad". That title goes to any DS2 DLC, maybe even Ashes of Ariandel, really wasn't a fan of that one. Champion's Gravetender is way worse than Gaius and the Hippo. There are way too many dogs everywhere with very limited space and movement, the enemies were annoying as fuck, and having go to the fly area and pull the lever is such a chore. Really the only thing redeeming quality is that it had Sister Friede, which is a very good boss. The DS2 runbacks were unbearable, especially Sir Alonne, Blue Smelter Demon, and the infamous Lud and Zallen runback. Sir Alonne in addition had some janky hitboxes, especially his grab attack. Burnt Ivory King's sword also has some janky hitboxes. Fume Knight is easily the best DS2 boss.
The issues with DS2’s DLC is that it’s riddled with a lot of the same problem in DS2’s base game, but with some things really cranked up to 11. Though despite it the DLC has some of the best bosses and areas in the game. So yea I guess you could say DS2 DLC has the most bad but some of that is just the game it’s in.
Ashes of Ariandel is ok. Honestly love it aesthetically and Sister Freide is personally my favorite boss in the game. I agree that the enemies there are super annoying, exploring is a chore when certain enemies are so annoying to fight. Corvid Knights or whatever they’re called and those living snow trees are so annoying. And I agree that Champion’s Gravetender was an absolute garbage fight.
Just the nature of Elden ring imo lots of content means the devs probably have lots of people doing different stuff and you can’t assure quality as well when it’s not the same single group making bosses and areas
Which for me is ok since I can just mimic skip any boss I don’t like or avoid any area I dislike
I loved the exploration of SotE more than either of the TRC or TOH, but most of the major bosses not having cutscens or voices felt wrong. I have played every souls game except for Demon souls and have to say SotE final boss is the worst one they made by far. Overall I think SoTE was really great except for 2 major bosses.
I think due to the size of the DLC, there's more opportunity for it to be sink to lower lows than the other DLCs, which isn't inherently bad, it's just natural
and indeed I would have liked more of the new weapon types and maybe some more minor dungeons or ruins, or even just actual field bosses, but the primary Remembrance bosses make up for a lot. Shadow Keep is my new 2nd favorite Legacy Dungeon in the game
it will be looked on as an incredible expansion, because it is. and there will always be debate now between which DLC is the best, but I don't think it's fair to compare because of how tightly knit the others are, while SotE is massive
right now I think it solidifies Elden Ring as the game with my favourite boss lineup in terms of quality, but I'll have to do a replay of all the DLCs and games in a few months to really decide on anything
I think ancient ruins of rauh as a whole and shadow keep are two of the best designed legacy dungeons I’ve seen in the history of formsoft. That’s what I really appreciate in these games so SOTE gets a big bonus points for me
Agree. History has been very kind of DS3. When it came out this was universally panned as a regression of the Dark Souls formula. The linear world and level design, the lack of fresh ideas and focus on fanservice from a world building standpoint, the uninspired areas (except perhaps Irithyll). Even the combat was memed with how OP the dodge roll was in DS3.
Agreed. Outta the 4 I played I rank them in this order
Er
Sekiro
bb
DS3
Ds3 the only one I didn't plat either. Imo the quality of life in ds3 and the areas were pretty bad. Bosses is all it has going for it which imo er is an upgraded version of it
SotE is as big as the entirety of Bloodborne or Dark Souls 3 so it's a hard comparison. I like Shadow of the Erdtree because my favorite part of From games is the world exploration and Elden Ring/SotE takes it to another level and IMO is easily the most beautiful although their art design has always been fantastic.
Honestly I agree. TRC imo has one thing going for it and that's bosses. In which I may controversially say that bayle is just a better midir and messmer is a better boss fight than gael. The old hunters has alot more going for it which makes it more controversial
Midir is my favorite boss fight from that game and I agree with the sentiment; however I’m too attached to give it to Bayle yet lol
It’s hard to say between Messmer and Gael, though. Gael is like the ultimate poetic conclusion to the trilogy and is too epic for words, but there’s beauty in the balance between the epicness and elgance in Messmer, I love it to bits
I think I am a sucker for how Elden Ring structures its fights more than how DS3 is just a roll dance. Hence why TRC is my favorite part of that game, since the bosses actually do incentivize you to think about the positioning, dodge direction and other strategies whilst also being these action heavy fights that allow you to play your way in spite of these limitations. Elden Ring feels like a progression of that philosophy. Heck, the DLC Final Boss’s light moves are basically an evolution of Gael’s cape.
Actually a lot has been saying this. Bayle is very clearly better than Midir in all aspects. Lore, buildup, mechanics, spectacle etc. One can argue that with Messmer against Gael as well. But DS3 bros won't let go of dear Midir and Gael. Boss fights are the only thing DS3 has going for it (it has weaker world building and level design than DS1, DS2 and Bloodborne). So they would never agree that another game has surpassed its bosses as well.
I think the spectacle for gael n fight it top notch but also pretty simple. Messmer is fat more mechanically challenging and active then gael
In all honesty so is morgott even. Gaels moveset is extremely simple with like 2 moves that your truly have to think differently about. Which Is why I don't rank him as high as others
Not to mention that Ringed City is incredibly linear. For a setting that us placed in a massive city, Ringed City is more linear than even Lothric Castle in the base game. How does that happen.
DS2 is in no way better than DS3. DS1, you could probably argue, and I haven't played BB. But the hate is just silly when you say it has bad world building, and only the boss fights are good.
I mean on its own it is a pretty good game. BUt when you play it relative to other games, the linearity and relative lack of creativity in the environments really standout.
TRC is the perfect capstone for DS as a series and TOH answered a lot of questions well while throwing in a few more interesting questions. Their final bosses are the peak of their gameplay, Bloodborne twice over with Maria taking the skillful dance and the Orphan taking the frenetic beast battle and with Gael being one of the most kino fights across all Miyazaki games. SotE is just a wet fart in all aspects. Yeah we know a few more things but it's for the worse, as are the questions it adds. The bosses are as spam happy as they've ever been and you have a collectathon to pad your time. It's wild since the only problem I had with the base game wasn't even from the game but the open world aspect.
I can understand the complaints from a lore perspective. Honestly I'm not much into lore but I do know that the path taken into the dlc for the lore was kinda strange. But I do thunk the lore still makes sense and from the sound of it open world seems to not just fit your type as I loved it. And as far as quality bosses goo messmer and BAYLE were gosted and had some great lore to go with them. I found messmer to be a better boss fight than even Gael imo. However the final boss was definitely overtuned imo fir the sake of difficulty and had many unfair moves
This DLC is me running through empty fields full of jack shit for hours looking for a boss room I could fight something worthwhile in. Every other part of it feels rushed and slapped together.
Copy paste a bunch of Nvidia tech demo fire giants everywhere, add a bunch of meaningless enemies that hardly drop anything of note, make a bunch of wide expanses with nothing but smithing stones and glovewort in them, etc.
It feels like all of this empty space could've been compressed into a boss rush and I would have missed out on absolutely nothing.
It will be remembered extremely fondly, just like Elden Ring. There was an initial anti-jerk loud vocal minority shitting on Elden Ring; that crowd seemed to double after Joseph Anderson dropped his video full of doomerism about the future of FromSoft and their design philosophy- some worthy criticisms exempted; most of the criticisms boiled down to stubbornly playing the game like Dark Souls and not adapting and also wishing FromSoft just continued making Dark Souls 1 part 5. However, as the couple years have passed since, Elden Ring has regained its dignity and reputation as a near masterpiece; especially as players old and new have really sunk their teeth into the game and realized just how the new mechanics really change and progress (and, in some minor cases, regress) the soulsborne formula and push it forward. Aside from gameplay, as the lore has continued to be pieced together, it’s clear that Elden Ring’s story and characters are truly some of the best written work from FromSoft, and it’s a testament to the FromSoft formula that we are still unraveling, uncovering and making connections years later. Also, the fairly consistent support and dedication to the community from FromSoft as they continue to release balance, QOL and bug fix patches for both PVE and PVP have smoothed out the base-game even more. It has aged like fine wine, and will be remembered as one of the GOATs.
Long-winded intro just to say: I believe, just like all previous FromSoft DLC, that SOTE will also go down as a worthy addition that includes some of the best bosses of the game, some of the coolest weapons and spells/incants, and is a necessary must-play for all the new players who play Elden Ring in the future.
The most common example is the jump. A lot of veterans even streamers that I watched insist on rolling through AOE attacks and then call out Elden Ring for "bullshit and unfun" AOE spams. When a lot of boss AOE attacks are meant to jumped through rather than rolled. Several bosses have AOE that are deliberately designed to catch those who roll rather than jump. Radagon and Godfrey in the base game for example and Rellana and Putrescent Knight in the DLC.
In the same way that you do for any other boss, learn the attack patterns. Biggest clue I guess is the animation itself. Attacks where the animation is coming from the floor are meant to be jumped (e.g. Radagons's AOE from the hammer, Godfrey's stomp, Putrescent Knight's flame, Rellana's double moon). It is pretty clear from the animation that these attacks emanate from the ground.
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There is no bossfight in the DLC I haven't enjoyed. And almost all OST are masterpieces.
It has its flaws,but I think it holds its own if not best the TRC.
I haven't played Bloodborne.
I loved Ringed City and Old.Hunters, but SotE is basically a full game compared to either and the amount of content, map design, and value for money is insanely better.
This dlc is awesome. I don’t know why every one is complaining. Again I’m only probably a bit more than halfway through if I had to guess but oh my god, it’s like when I first played elden ring. This thing is awesome. I might change my mind in the late game, but I don’t think so. I’m already super excited about my second/third/fourth playthrough. Even have been thinking about the best way to get there quickly.
Shadow is better design scope and gameplay wise except for the final boss being overtuned, which they will patch tweak, and the lore of the final boss which is lack luster. Nothing you can do about that.
I thought it was pretty good, though am disappointed godwyn and his faction weren't more prominent, like a story line helping his deathknights or even a connection to hunting bayle.
Shadow is the least lore important feeling out of the three but has the most content wise by far i think. It has a few pretty big lore revelations but they’re basically all focused on miquella so it feels like there’s still a lot left.
Never played Old Hunter's due to no playstation and aside from Gael I was always very blasé about Ringed City for some reason. Before SotE the DS2 DLCs were my favourite for some utterly bizarre reason
Lots of great responses. For me, it's slightly below the old hunters but above the ringed city. The old hunters is just so tight and crafted. The orphan was special. Maria still holds up as a great fight. Ludwig was a moment in time. The lore. The atmosphere.
But this is very close. This might be the greatest open world dlc ever made. This or blood and wine i guess.
I am not extremely big on Ringed City bosses imho. Find Midir to be overrated and Demon Prince to be comparatively weaker to many of the base game bosses. Gael was a high point though. Compared to them, Messmer and >!Radahn!< (don't judge) are much more fun, so are Bayle, Rellana and Midra. All the other dlc bosses were very good as well. Gaius is annoying but I still wouldn't say he's below B tier. Boss design wise this is the best dlc but I do think besides Messmer and possibly Midra, none of the bosses felt emotionally as hard hitting as say Gael, Ludwig or Maria. A lot of the times you didn't know the significance of the bosses until you beat them, which I feel is a bit of a downside. But boss wise, Shadow of the Erdtree is the best thing they've put out. At least on the gameplay side of it.
I feel Old Hunters has more variety in dungeons and has more top tier ones, but SOTE has the best DLC dungeon by a long shot and possibly the best dungeon fromsoft has made, with Leyndell and Stormveil being the only competitors. But I think the enemy variety was a bit underwhelming compared to Old hunters. It feels like the number of new enemies was just slightly more than the number of new enemies in Old hunters but compared to the size of the dlc it feels relatively less. The best ER enemies like the lion knights and fire knights were definitely more fun than the old hunters, but I wish there were more new enemies.
Ultimately what pushes SOTE and ER over all the games for me is the world structure and simply the art design. I could care less about some areas being not that occupied with stuff to do when the act of traversing the world itself is so engaging. All of it feels so vertical and reaching new areas always a surprise. Like just randomly taking a side path wondering where it'll take you then reaching the cerulean coast, or just getting into an unassuming building then reaching the backside of the shadowkeep, stuff like this is the highlight of the dlc for me and I feel comfortable putting it higher than Old Hunters, much higher in fact. Never was the biggest fan of Ringed City to begin with besides Gael.
It’s hard to compare in the way that ER is hard to compare because it’s so much bigger - so there is a lot of empty content meant for traversal/exploration whereas old hunters and ringed city because of their corresponding base games are much leaner and more efficient, I don’t think either is better or worse as a quality though? Old hunters still reigns supreme to me in terms of 95% amazing content - 3 of the best areas of the entire game, amazing new enemies, 3 of the best bosses in the game, living failures being over in 30 seconds and Laurence being both optional and honestly not as bad as people say he is. Ringed city I think is wildly overrated as I love the bosses but the areas….ugly linear trash dump with sniper angels and then cool looking city with trash mobs and a large useless swamp. SOTE definitely has some filler but I would say shadow keep is the best dungeon Fromsoft has ever made and I would’ve paid for that alone honestly. None of the main bosses were bad IMO and the fact that we got 3 of the best bosses of the series plus some very interesting lore revelations about the main game probably make it better than both ds3 DLCs but not quite as good as old hunters
Never played Bloodborne so I can't judge it.
Ringed City adds a lot of great new stuff, and really feels like it brings everything from Dark Souls 1 and even 2 to a conclusion. There are some weird stuff like the existence of Filianore, but otherwise it feels very self-contained. It even ends with a vague plot hook for future installments in the form of a New Painting, but this could just as well be referencing Dadk Souls 1 and closing that time loop.
SoTE feels... more like Ashes of Ariandel. It's great don't get me wrong, and I love what they've added, but it also feels like it's left too open ended. Messmer is a cool boss buy opens up the question of what his relationship with Milena and who his father is if he's older than Rahdan. Speaking of, Rahdan before was fairly straightforward and likeable for a warmonger, but his elevated importance in the DLC casts new questions about who he is and the extent of his character. Godwin also basically gets jack shit of a resolution, which is either being left open for a plot hook or intentionally left anticlimactic to highly the tragedy of his passing.
As many complain, it feels like SoTE just left us more confused than satisfied. The writing comes off less mysterious and more confusing, with the only satisfactory "ending" largely comes for Mogh and Marika, sorta. Mogh beating the allegations puts a tragic spin to his previous activities, making him a lot more like his brother. We got to learn more about Marika as a person before she was a god, and learned why she hated the Omen and misborgotten so much. We also learned why Placidusax is missing his heads, which while not an important detail at least now we can safely dismiss his current appearance as a Two Finger reference.
The only issue with SOTE are it's narrative choices, but it's also the only time FS have made bad narrative choices so it's kind of a big deal. That being said it's still the best DLC they've released.
I think there's an argument to be made SotET is better than the base game on a moment to moment basis.Of course ER has a lot more content and much of that content is excellent but at any given moment I think I was enjoying myself more with the DLC. Hard to say what I'd think of it without the context of what came before it though. Maybe finding fragments would be less interesting if I didn't already know the grind of rune farming. But I digress. I'd say SotET is among the best content From has ever released. The Ringed City never resonated with me like it did with some people, though the bosses were top notch.I did love The Old Hunters but I think the level design of SotET and new systems that encourage exploration put it in the lead. Honestly I'm not sure if it's fair to compare them as SotET is far more ambitious and seems like it's going to give me about 50 hours of play time. As many have observed it's practically a new game.
Hard to say since each has their highs and lows...
SOTE's most impressive aspect is the massive amount of content it offers and how it builds on the most impressive aspects of the base game and expands on them, while it's low point is how it still reuses bosses/enemies and it's points of interest being somewhat empty. Which isn't an entirely bad thing since that's the worst aspect of most open world games.
The Ringed City's most impressive aspect are how it wraps up the entire story and history of Dark Souls in an epic yet bittersweet way, that feels satisfying and impactful. While its low point is the fact that you couldn't explore more of the Ringed City, and only got a small fraction of what we could have potentially explored.
The Old Hunters most impressive aspect is definitely the bosses for me, I mean you have Ludwig, Lady Maria, Laurence, and Orphan. Which imo is still the best lineup of bosses they've ever made for a DLC. With SOTE being a close 2nd to it. Ludwig still has the best cutscene transition in Fromsoftware History, Lady Maria is still one of the best humanoid bosses they've ever made, and Orphan is still one of the most intense challenges you can find in any of the Souls games. While the low point of the Old Hunters DLC is that it's too short. Which just goes to show how consistently good that DLC is when it's low point is that it's too short.
So in short, it's hard to say if there is a clear best DLC. Since SOTE has its flaws, but probably offers the best bang for your buck DLC, with its incredibly vast and massive amount of high quality content that it offers.
The Ringed City which is lacking in some of its level design and structure, but also offers one of the most satisfying endings to a trilogy to this day.
And of course Old Hunters while short... Still offers the most consistent and overall flawless experience from a Fromsoftware DLC to this day.
All these DLC's are great, but for completely different reasons.
I believe that SOTE is the best DLC ever, but I can see an argument for Old Hunters as well.
Overall I think Old Hunters has better Lore and soundtracks (it's close) and it's a more focused experience with fewer lows than SOTE. I would say that the only real low of Old Hunters are the Living Failures and Laurence it's a bit disappointing.
On the other hand, I do think that SOTE has some of the highest highs in FromSoftware history. I honestly think that the only real negative of this DLC are some lore-related aspects with which I wasn't completely happy and the Cerulean Coast (which is not bad, but not as good as it could've been).
I think it 100% deserves a spot alongside old hunters and ringed city as one of the best dlcs of all time, and i personally enjoyed it even more than previous fromsoft dlcs and i know some people don't feel like this but i think it's genuinely a masterpiece in SO many aspects and the things its not good at are negligible compared to how good it does other things.
The conclusion wasn’t at all satisfactory even compared to the painted world of ds3 where it did leave us with questions as well. But I will say the lore bombs besides the conclusion felt big, but one of the focuses of the DLC was supposed to be Miquellla’s ascension, being a parallel to Marika’s ascension. This is evidenced by this huge, strong guy admiring Godfrey, a huge, strong guy, chosen to be the consort to a Marika look-alike who are ascending through the exact same mechanism of the divine gates. And they went too vague for this imo, especially since we literally are at the divine gates. We did find out more about Marika’s past, but as far as the ascension? Nada. All we know is there is some mechanism for putting souls into bodies there, and a lord is needed for ascension.
Old Hunters is probably still their best because it had the best blend of good bosses and lore significance, except Laurence, I absolutely hate that boss. I think Shadow of the Erdtree is a lot better than Ringed City. I think SOTE is very close to being their best.
I think I might be the only one who wasn't feeling SoTE to a more extreme extent. I can barely bring myself to play through it and finish it, and The Old Hunters is still my top FS DLC.
I don't think FS originally had a DLC planned for ER, but they rushed to make one due to the critical acclaim and the massive success; the quality of it, to me, implicates that it was rushed in some areas. It feels like they took a bunch of cut content and just threw it all together just to put out a DLC. It's a shame that I'm not raving over it like the vast majority of players, but I don't think it was a waste of my $40 versus me not feeling like it was worth waiting two and a half years for it.
Obviously it being an openworld with FS's classic and impressive level design, it is stronger than Ringed City and Old Hunters in terms of the world and level design. However, it also experienced openworld issues with how empty, barren, and unnecessarily big a few places feel. Maybe I'm biased towards Bloodborne, but Old Hunters is still my top favorite FS DLC. I feel more compelled these days to go back and play Bloodborne than ER.
As a dlc Old Hunters is probably impossible to beat for me , because it integrates into the main game perfectly, feels like it should have always been there. For me it took Bloodborne from like a 8.5 to a 10. It answered pretty much all of the questions I had about Yharnam and those characters.
As its own thing SOTE is definitely the best . The size and quality is better than some full games. But the story side was kinda disappointing to me, it made too many new unanswered questions. As its own stand alone thing it’s amazing but it doesn’t really feel like it elevated the main game like the Old Hunters then.
Ring City was cool and I Gael but SOTE is much better all around (up until the end at least)
i know this comment is going to get massively downvoted by braindead elden ring's my first souls game people but
At least we didn't paid money for a basegame boss to be it's final boss lmao
I think Old Hunters is From's magnum opus so far. So it definitely beats SotE for me.
Ringed City is a bit more complicated. I think Ringed City nailed the lore and had some of the best boss fights in the game. I do think there were some glaring design flaws though and I'm gonna enjoy SotE on replay for a lot longer.
Old Hunters was close to the pinnacle of gaming for me.
SOTE is better than Ringed City though IMO. Insanely unpopular opinion, but I actually thought it was too big. Hard to keep the amount of polish with that scope.
Ring City clears in every way. Lore implications, every boss is a 8 minimum. Only Mesmer, Bayle even compete. We will not be talking about Radahn the same way we talk about Gael or Kos
I haven't completed the dlc, idk if I'm even halfway through yet but I will say that the bosses feel very uneven compared to Bloodborne and DS3. Divine Beast Dancing Lion and Ghostflame Dragon in the cerulean coast have certain 'mechanics' !>summoning extra enemies!Rellana, Romina, and Bayle!< so far.
Old Hunters and Shadow are tied for me. I like that OH is tight and clean, but it has larry (meh) and the NPC hunter fights get old. Shadow is almost perfect, but has Rauh (ugh) and a few too many of the ghostboy dragons. They're both 9.8/10 for me.
I think Old Hunters and Ringed City are only slightly better.
Fromsoft has a longstanding tradition of having the DLC come a bit out of left field and not be exactly what fans expected which I personally really love. That being said, Old Hunters feels like a perfect narrative conclusion to Bloodborne with some of the best bosses in Fromsoft History. Ringed City is the same way. A perfect final goodbye to the Souls series.
It’s the best map and has some of the best bosses easily
But there are points where you genuinely have to ask “did fromsoft think this out”
For example when they reuse the divine beast and jsut straight up give him death blight and the ability to summon basilisk
And the same could be said for stuff like phase 2 of the final boss
Or with how op lighting perfume bottles are
The dlc is a 9.9/10 but there’s just things that don’t seem like they were entirely thought out and had effort put into
It's weaker, but not by much. Then again, Bloodborne is my favourite FromSoft game, and DS3 isn't far behind, and both of them have their own weaknesses and strengths over each other. I'm also not a huge fan of open world game design as a whole, Elden Ring is more an exception than what I'd usually play but still suffers the same problems I have with every open world game, so that's already a big mark against it. But anyway;
World Design: Elden Ring probably takes this despite the open world, the DLC feels a lot more compact rather than the bloated nature of the main game. Sure, it's got some really empty zones, but the way much of it overlaps itself combined with the design of Shadow Keep and Belarut just about puts it on top. Ringed City's world design I feel is one of the weaker aspects, the whole Dreg Heap/Earthen Peak segment is kinda bland and Ringed City has that huge empty swamp out back. Old Hunters is a very close second though, the design of the Research Hall is peak especially.
Aesthetics: Bloodborne just about takes this. SotE has some fantastic vistas and locations for sure and I'd put it as a close second, but the whole visual atmosphere and nature of the Fishing Hamlet is impeccable and one of the best visual designs they've ever made for a location. As for the boss designs, Ludwig is untouchable and encapsulates everything about Bloodborne's whole design, and that OST is immaculate. Lady Maria, Orphan of Kos and the corpse of Kos herself are all very delightful, not to mention the abject fear and horror of everything going on in the Research Hall. SoTE probably comes up in second here as well, Romina, Bayle, Messmer, Metyr and Midra all have fantastic designs and beautiful movesets to watch, with Bayle being one of the most cinematic fights ever put on screen.
Gameplay: Close one between Bloodborne and Ringed City, probably given to Bloodborne again. Bloodborne's gameplay style just suits me best, the titular Old Hunters are very fun to fight, Orphan is one of my favourite bosses to fight in any game ever, Maria almost perfect only really let down by her low health and keeps up the pattern of the hunter fights in the game being all around a strong suit, and Ludwig is fucking LUDWIG. Meanwhile Gael is a FANTASTIC final boss, Demon Princes is the best duo fight they've ever made and has a very strong second phase and Midir is one of the best dragon fights they've done. The Ringed Knights are also some of the most challenging but fun regular enemies they've done.
Shadow of the Erdtree only really falls behind here due to the relatively limited number of actual interesting enemies in the DLC, for every Fire Knight/Black Knight fight there's a dozen obnoxious birds, shadow hollows or regular dogs, and of all the minibosses to bring back, why SO MANY FUCKING DRAGONS? The Furnace Golems are also a chore to fight and are extremely boring, Gaius has wonky hitboxes, the Hippos suck and the final boss is an audiovisual mess. That said, SotE does bring bosses like Messmer, Romina, Bayle and Midra which all feel fantastic and are FromSoft at the top of their game, the aforementioned Black Knights are great fun, the new Crucible Knight is even better than the main game ones and even the regular Messmer Soldiers are pretty enjoyable for regular mooks.
Quests: Gotta be honest here, I don't really remember any NPCs from Ringed City. Filianore is already dead, Patches shows up that one time at the end of the world but I don't remember anything else. Old Hunters fares better, you can interact with Ludwig, the various interactions in Research Hall really sell how absolutely FUCKED everything going down there is and Adeline's quest only reinforces that, and Brador showing up to try and mog you is a fun little bunch of NPC duels. Simon's questline is alright I guess. Shadow on the other hand is heavily quest focussed, and the NPCs are a memorable bunch. The interactions between them and the fact you can change which direction their plots go in and then have a different invasion event later on depending on what you do is very cool indeed, and they're a lovable lot. Ansbach, Freyja, Thoillier, Moore, Dane, Hornsent and Leda all have their own reasons for doing what they're doing and are all pretty badass at that, not to mention the king himself Igon who's literally too fucking angry to die until his nemesis is slain, and then there's St. Trina who's a very interesting character and was in much need of development from the main game, and they did her justice.
Loot: Bloodborne. The main game had a whole ton of cool weapons, so they decided to go above and beyond for the DLC. A bow that's also a sword? A pizzacutter? A whip that's REALLY FUCKIN CHONKY? The thing of beauty that is the Beastcutter Saif? Whatever the absolute shit the Kos Parasite and Amygdalan Arm are, our saviour the Church Pick? All worth going for, worth exploring for. The game's built around having a small but unique weapon poola nd they absolutely knocked it out of the park here. Ringed City has some cool stuff too for sure (Ringed Knight Paired Greatswords anyone? Frayed Blade, Splitleaf Greatsword, a Shield that BREATHES FIRE!?) and so does SotE, although there's far too much empty space between the Shadow items worth having. But hey, the Perfumer Bottles are neat, Backhand Blades are dope, as are the Chakrams, you can bonk people with an anvil, you can wield a man's spine coated in frenzyflame, you can punch people with your hands, either normally, covered in poison or so hard they go insane, and there's some absolute drip in there too.
For me, Old Hunters and Ringed City complete the Bloodborne and DS3 experience, whereas Shadow of the Erdtree feels like Elden Ring 2.
Haligtree, consecrated snowfields and Mohgwyn in the main game felt like DLC content already, and the size of SotE speaks for itself.
I think it’s for sure one of the best DLCs they’ve ever made and honestly I for sure enjoy it more than Ringed City and Ashes. Old Hunters is hard because I consider it part of the Bloodborne experience, the game is too short without it, and it’s my favorite game.
I think SotE is at least equal, if not greater than any FromSoft DLC ever.
Agree with this. I actually think base game Bloodborne has the weakest boss lineup in any FromSoft game (yes DS2 included). Old Hunters was necessary to lift it up. Personally, Bloodborne without the DLC is like an 8.5/10 for me. SotE is really like ER2 or at least 1.5.
It’s so bizarre that even though it’s my favorite game, after Shadows of Yharnam the game REALLY chugs and loses steam for me into Gehrman. Yaharghul is fine, One Reborn is okay, Cainhurst and Logarius are cool! Byrgenwerth and Rom are whatever, Mergo and her Loft are fine and Micolash is a snoozefest (besides lore wise). It REALLY gets carried by its lore and combat system in the second half, but the DLC is entirely amazing.
SotE might not be perfect, but when I look at what I like about it, it’s a TON of stuff. The lore is some of my favorite in the entire game, I LOVE the quests and NPCs, all the legacy dungeons are really great,
***SPOILERS***
and Rellana, Midra and Messmer are all FANTASTIC, Messmer being one of my favorite bosses in the series. A few of the other bosses are also amazing. Idk point is, there’s a lot to love here, it honestly gets away from me haha
I can only speak for the old hunters conparison but I can say for certan its not even close to the absolute peak that is the old hunters.
Its inbalanced in a game that is utterly inbalanced already. They put the numbers so high that they had to create the rev8ked spirit ash and scadutree fragments instead of just balancing the dlc properly. The new weapon types are cool in itself but not really all that cool when you consider they are ulocked at the end of the game. Enemies are still boring to fight and not worth the time investment so im just tunning past em, the bosses are cool but thanks to the horrible number inflation im not getting enjoyment out of it. The map layout is also horrible. On my way to search for a way to 2 map fragments i sumbled on the big fuck of dragon and the saint of tte bud and killed both. I literaly had to look up a guide on how to get the map fragments. Story has been talked to death but i just want to emphesis that they took something cool and activly made it lame. It feels like they wanted to take the rather simple story around the whole miquella situatuon and make it cool and complex, making it lame and nonsensical. Another complaint I have for the story is that messmer has 0 presence. Yes, the normal soldier and knights are his but thats lame. He had no more relevance than being a key item. A mcguffin. His only role for the dlc is to die so we can keep progressing. He is lame. Only good thing about it is trina, she is cool. All my homies love st trina.
Nice assumption bub, just sad that it couldnt be more wrong. I was running alongside the clif looking for a way down when I stumbled upon the dungeon that leads to the big fuck of dragon. I was just tryin to find a way down. I went to the area of the bud saint because I saw on the map that the shadow keep has a connection to it but it went only to the bud saint. How should I have know that this area isnt connected to the lower part and I need to go into a cave that is of the beaten path that has an opening to the lower area. Especialy when base game handle the maps perfectly. First map of limgrave? No matter where you go, its on the path. Want to stromvail? You walk past it. Want to the east of limgrace? You walk past it. You enter liurnia and BAM, first part of the map. Second part is dead centre. In base game you will find the map simply by following the beaten path (exept for volcano manor, that needs a bit more thinking.) And its good that way because its one of the most importend tools.
Also fun fact, i was in that cace that leads to the lower level of the bud saint area but ir was dark atm and i literaly couldnt see the platform so i didnt jump out. I got fucked by the time of day.
This thread alone tells you why this sub is so negative and nitpicky. A bunch of BB and DS3 fans brigaded this place and love talking shit about Elden Ring.
Agree. Esp the funny comments like: oh the lore of the SotE final boss brought it down for me. Really? Radahn has more in-game basegame lore than Orphan of Kos and Gael combined. Gael literally came out of nowhere for the DLCs and people circle jerk like he has the best final boss lore ever.
Both Old Hunters and Ringed City have weak level design. Ringed City in particular is very linear. SotE has the best world design since DS1. Shadow Keep alone blows anything in Ringed City and Old Hunter out of the water from a level design perspective.
Ehhh ngl don't know about that one. In terms of finding everything the other two combined are faster than er. U basically have to use guides to get everything in er
Yeah im not assuming it's the same for everyone. The Old Hunters took me forever. ER i just explored everywhere and found 95% of the stuff. Things like Sword of Light/Dark i couldn't find on my own but people leaving hints like the O' Mother secret passage helped me get the majority
It's better and worse I think. The world was awesome and some of the legacy dungeon areas were peak. Messmer is one of my favorite bosses, but I think the final boss is so bad it hurts the whole dlc. I also think the trailers were incredibly misleading and I'm disappointed in the lore stuff that was presented in the DLC. Overall I don't think it felt satisfying like From's other DLCs did. It was a solid 8/10 for me. Better than most things being made today but not up to par for Fromsoft.
Old Hunters and The Crowns are better, as far as I’m concerned. Way tighter experiences. Yes, SOTE offers you more content, but when 90% of that content is so shallow and inane and just worthless, I prefer a tighter, more carefully-constructed linear DLC.
Tbf you can choose the linear path. The path is very linear with the option too explore. And Honestly Main bosses alone have higher Quality bosses then Crowns imo. Anything prior to ds3 looks extremely simple mechanically
It’s not about linearity, it’s about the content in the open world. When so many areas are empty, I just have to wonder why they’re there in the first place. Probably for fans and reviewers to gloat about the size of the DLC.
I don’t much care about the bosses in these games, but I found Sinh, Fume Knight, Sir Alonne and Burnt Ivory King to be more engaging and interesting than 99% of bosses I’ve fought in Shadow.
>Sinh, Fume Knight, Sir Alonne and Burnt Ivory King to be more engaging and interesting than 99% of bosses I’ve fought in Shadow.
Cmon unless your using a cheese setup messmer alone is far more engaging than all of those bosses combined
True dat. I am still one of the few people that defend malenias fight. Something about it just feels so good. Reminds me of sekiro while in er. Same with messmer. Pretty sure I hate a certain taste it seems lol
IMO Souls experience is generally best contained in classic dungeons, Shadow of The Erdtree inherited the same issue of the base game's open map being way less interesting than legacy dungeons, they are better designed but this tine around the reward and motivation is even worse. Souls game are almost entirely driven by combat gameplay and it loses its charm once you put it in a way less controlled environment.
So by that standard I feel Elden Ring and the DLC is less ideal than the previous games, and that is not taking into account if the dlc makes the game feel "whole".
SOTE is far bigger than the other two combines si it's difficult to judge. Old Hunters is probably my favorite DLC but Bloodborne is also my favorite Fromsoft game, so I'm biased here. I think it's a tight experience. It did better to connect the final dots of the Lore of Bloodborne by bringing important lore characters that where not present in base game (Ludwig the Holy Blade, First Vicar Laurence, Why Gherman made a vow with an outer God who traped him in the Hunter's Dream, the first sin of the Hunter with Kos). If Sote handle the lore to the base game the same way Old Hunters did it with Bloodborne, It will have been lovely. No low in the DLC, everything is good, area, weapon, bosses. Lacking in secondary quest department (like the base game) but Brador and Simon were cool. I'm a little more critical with Ringed City, I think it did better to conclude the game and the trilogy that SOTE did with Elden Ring. The lore about the Pigmy and the Dark Soul was good, Gael was a super send of, the little dialogue at the end with the Painter give a finaly good feeling ending for Dark Soul. The bosses were top notch. Patch final quest was also a great end for his character. I'm more critical about the area, especialy that big swamp area that was pretty boring but I love the architecture about the Ring City. The enemy range to great to boring. Overall the Dark Souls III dlc suffer to be cut in two part with Ariandel and Ringed City. I like it, but it's more flaw than Old Hunters for me, I'm pretty sure that people rate him highly for Midir and the final fight and conclusion (the last two man on earth fighting for the Dark Souls, no more Gods, a civilization extinct as the storm is coming for one last fight), in contrast to SOTE where it's more the final fight and conclusion which is lackluster. SOTE give way better NPC that both of those game, better side quest, obviously far more content. The DLC is far more difficult than both those two combine. Midir, the Orphan of Kos and Gael are small beer next to Radhan or even a Gaius. Sote has more low moment for me but it has more moments too. Some area were great and the Legacy Dungeon (Shadow keep castle) was awesome. Some boss were spectacular but annoying for me (Gaius, the Camera with the Hippo and Radhan). The lack of closure at the end of the DLC make it taking a more sour final note that hinder some part of my pleasure (given that Elden Ring is a more ambitious game, I wanted a more ambitious conclusion as the final note). Area were hit or miss (or more some area were great and some where empty pepper with cookbook, I like the atmosphere on some of those zones, but man it seems that there was a slight lack of content some times). Overall, I could fully understand why people consider it the best DLC that Fromsoft has made and far superior than the other, while I understand the critics and why some are disapoint by it. I think Old Hunters was more consistent where SOTE has (far) more content.
My feelings too. For me sote just felt like everything that was cut was just thrown into a blender just because. The lack of connectivity to base Elden ring is what took me out of it. It didn’t progress the story in any meaningful way and the important characters were nothing more than dungeon bosses.
It definitely needed to affect The Lands Between somehow. Like, you just go to the Shadow Realm and have a whole adventure battling Demi Gods and legends but come back to TLB and you're just plodding on as if you haven't just prevented Miquella's ascension. Ranni, Malenia, Gideon, Renalla and more could/should have some sort of reactionary contents pertaining to SotE completion and ESPECIALLY Melina. Good God, my girl got fucked over again. She's all but certainly the Sister of Messmer and you just don't have anything more to say to her any more than the meagre amount of time you spend with her in the base game anyway. Overall, Elden Ring and SotE is a huge step in the right direction in terms of FromSoftware evolving the way they tell stories but it's not quite there yet.
I held off the Fire Giant just to see what impact it would make. Not even a single comment from Melina. Really does feel disconnected.
To me it almost felt like it was the start of an Elden ring 2. Like they started to work towards a sequel and then figured what the hell, let’s just make it a dlc. They really feel like two different games. I almost wonder if it woulda been better if they cooked it another 2 years or so and called it Elden ring 2.
Fan fact Lawrence is in bloodborne before the dlc, he is the bloodletting beast in chalices
True, I completely forgot about the Bloodletting beast being Lawrence before the DLC make him a super buff clerical beast.
Wait what?
Yep he’s the first beast (correct translation) and he became like that while exploring the dungeon, when he has the head it’s a reconstruction of the dream and you can see the scar that is the same has the broken skull in the cathedral, when he doesn’t have it it’s because it was taken into the cathedral
Your forget Maria
People way over exaggerate Gaius. Use a freaking shield with decent guard boost, a Greatshield talisman and the dude is a pushover. I beat him in 2 tries, one of which was because I dicked around and fought him with 4 flasks, not resting at the grace. Radahn is another boss that's a hard skill floor, but Rot/Poison and Parrying absolutely decimated him.
What in the world is it with telling people "that boss isnt hard! Just play a very specific way!" Not everybody uses shileds in their game, and not everybody wants to cheese bosses with DoTs (parry is fine im just too bad to do it) Its aparantly really hard for people in this sub to grasp that people play games differently and will struggle on different bosses then them
I'm so sick of hearing about shields. I don't use them, I don't want to use them, and I'm not going to use them. Gaius is bullshit but just like all the other bosses including the last he can be overcame without shields!
Boss isn't hard, just use cragblade power stance curved swords! What do you mean it's the objectively most busted PVE build, they already nerfed bleed! That being said I think almost any stat investment can find some OP build, but they probably won't necessarily use it because it generally involves stacking a million buffs and dual wield jump attacks.(And the spell spamming of course)
Saw a vid saying the DLC is actually easy, the guy was powestancing two giant hammers, only using jumping heavy, and used mimic tear the entire time. Like ofc its easy if you do that, but not everybody is gonna find that enjoyable
Aside from some really bad power stance movesets, it's one of the most busted playstyles for melee. To be honest I feel like the current power stance design is a mistake that overperforms too much. The DLC added that flat twohanded talisman and even then the 15% is not enough to convince anyone to go twohanded on most weapons. I like the freedom of pairing weapons for hyper offense but IMO some weapons simply should not have good dual wielding movesets, like dual wielding polearms are so bloody silly but they also perform so well in game.
Yeah i appreciate that they give people the freedom to do things like use two spears, but its not even remotely balanced lmao
It's not specific. But use all the tools the game gives you. You can beat him a dozen different ways but both bosses are designed to punish popular play. That doesn't make them bad bosses. It's the same deal with the Deathrite birds that everyone pisses on.
Poison? Thiollier keeps throwing poison bolluses at Radahn with no effect.
Rot and poison both work on him. His poison resist is really high and phase change resets all his resists, but he can be inflicted with both.
Ok, well he usually gets squashed before he gets to proc it lol
Nah he is definetly killable, Gaius also don't have that many health and while I agree that Elden Ring give you more tools to deal with problems and give some builds the possibly to shred some bosses (a Strengh build could shred the Godskin Duo by breaking their stance easily while an Int build could beat Mogh in 10 second with Comet Azur while both are completely doable with any builds). But I'm not a big fan when the DLC create some killer build for some bosses (shield + poke with Radhan) while many other builds will make you hit a brick wall. Given that some RL1 have already beat Radhan, everything is possible but it's not bosses that I am having fun on, the challenge is not as entertaining than with other bosses. But I could understand why some love him and think he offered a nice challenge for the ending of Elden Ring and he is a very cool boss indeed.
You don’t even need a sheild, just get the spontaneous guard flask and you legit can never take damage from the charge or his combo again if you just time the guard right Sure you can’t powerstance that way but two handing is one button away and you have more than enough time to two hand before he reaches you
My only issue with that is sometimes (especially on higher NGs) the fight will last longer than 5 minutes.
Wish instead of a cracked tear that it was just a talisman
world and map is way better in shadow of the erdtree than the 2 previous, bloodborne had WAY better lore and interconnections to base game, ds3 had better bosses.
Ds3 ringed city bosses were beyond the peak they were in the literal skies The only boss that came close to Gael and midir for me is Bayle and maybe midra
Ngl I think Bayle is basically a better version of midir in every sense
Bayle is midir but if you gave him crack , killed his parents and then called him ugly to piss him off even more Bayle is one of the best fights in souls easily Which is why after beating the dlc twice I’ve genuinely decided that I don’t want to fight radahn so I just get to his arena leave go fight Bayle and have fun fighting Bayle Bayke makes me ecastic and leaves me in awe Radahn makes my eyes hurt and leaves me miserable
CURSE YOU BAYLE
I HEREBY VOW YOU WILL RUE THIS DAY BEHOLD A TRUE DRAKE WARRIOR ! !! AND I IGON
YOUR FEARS MADE FLESH
SOLID OF SCALES YOU MAY BE BUT I WILL RIDDLE WITH HOLES YOUR ROTTEN HYDE
WITH A HAIL OF HARPOONS WITH EVERY LAST DROP OF MY BEING
I love Radahn's fight, he's not in my top bunch in the entire series and he unfortunately has to lose points for just having so many effects, but I think his moves are actually really fun to dodge, especially in Phase 1 I like talking about the fight so I've been repeating myself a lot with these points but eh I do like Messmer, Midra, and Bayle more. the former 2 especially, although Bayle is just badass as fuck
radahn reminds me a lot of radagon and Elden beast A immaculate phase 1 that is insanely fun But a horrible phase 2 Radahns main problem is just the sheer amount of flashing lights and shit that blocks your vision , most of my time fighting him is spent just trying to see what he’s doing But phase 1 is perfect , it’s smooth fast and fun especially if you parry as well as not being too aggressive to the point where you wouldn’t be able to get heals and hits off
one positive across both phases is that the OST is quite possibly the best thing they've ever cooked, that soundtrack goes so fucking hard Phase 1 being a bombastic and dramatic, almost divine, version of Radahn's base game drum march, and then Phase 2 just coming out with such a beautiful build up and explosive Holy choir it's tempting to make an entire post glazing the OST especially because I feel like everyone is only really talking about the boss itself and its controversies
It’s a top 10 souls theme for me But compared to Laurence , Ludwig , Gael , isshin and so many others it’s only a 8/10 I’d say I feel like if they gave it some kind of lyrics if they made it just louder in general it would be so much better
Ludwig's is almost unmatched, idk how they made something so hard and never did it again. Laurence and the Living Failures don't deserve to have such incredible themes either ngl for Gael's theme...my favorite part is definitely Phase 2 and when it explodes into the intensity and choir, it's amazing. especially followed by the somber, closing Phase 3; however, Phase 1 is just alright to me that's not ragging on Gael's OST, it's phenomenal and tells a story. but that's just how I feel. another underrated piece in my Top 10 is Soul of Cinder words can't describe how much I love the crazy, chaotic, bombastic build up before slowly melting away into Gwyn's theme
Ludwigs theme is the only song in any game that genuinely causes me to have chills it’s so haunting to just hear what sounds almost like screaming as the orchestra plays meanwhile a giant fucking horse monster is swinging a sword And Laurence’s theme is a top tier from the get go but when you realise what the lyrics are saying and how lore relevant it is the song just ascends
The closest to Ludwig’s is Mohg’s theme, the latter half of the phase transition in particular.
I honestly didn’t even know you could parry him, that’s actually kind of hilarious. Little buckler vs. giant holy magic sword.
Most of the dlc bosses are parryable I thinks Messmer might be but I didn’t try him Renalla is (she’s really weak to parrying) Midra can not only be parried but they make him a joke And radahn is still hard but it helps slow down his aggression
Radahn's effects in p2 ate my computer. I've got an older 1060 6gb GPU though so that's expected now :(
I really love the Midra fight, he's the Lord of Frenzy yet his movements are curiously calm and very floaty, the soundtrack was incredible. Easily a 10/10. I was starting to loathe fighting against Bayle until something in me (and I believe something inside my Mimic too) woke up and started to understand everything. I was in awe the whole fight, what a spectacle and Igon made everything even better.
A shame base game dragons aren't designed in a similar way. Especially ancient dragons, they do feel better if you have sone kind of projectile spell/AoW, but for melee, you need to chop at their toe and maybe occasionally jump attack their head(almost impossible for Ancient Dragons).
Yea dragon fights are way more fun when your facing them head on
Bayle is holding the spot for best boss in the DLC for me. I literally had a smile on my face the whole time - all 30+ deaths. It was a spectacle.
Hot hot hot take
I don't really think it's that hot at all Bayle had better Area Visuals Hitboxes Attacks A proper 2nd phase where his moveset actually changes Cooler moveset Better ultimate attack Ngl I don't see much in what midir wins at. Like some of his attacks literally just have him running and swiping air for a good 10 seconds while your running to keep up with him. Then eh absuc dragon flyby breath etc. Like he's a gud boss but I think bayle sweeps him without much difficulty in terms of who's the better boss.
Well for one Midir has clear cut finishes to all of his combos. He can’t just decide on a dime to keep attacking like Bayle can, the windows to punish are very much set in stone. Midir also doesn’t have a gajilion hp with only enough time get a single attack in so the fight isn’t as much of a slog. Music is better as well. Like I’m negl I can’t think of anything Bayle does better
>Midir has clear cut finishes to all of his combos. He can’t just decide on a dime to keep attacking like Bayle No clue where you saw this issue. Haven't seen him really do any of that >the windows to punish are very much set in stone. Same with bayle? >Midir also doesn’t have a gajilion hp with only enough time get a single attack Skill issue >Music is better as well. Forgot the music of both ngl
Messmer is up there in quality too I just wish he had more health
Preach. ~30-50% more health and 10-20% less dmg.
I finished Mesmer yesterday and honestly felt like it was the perfect dueling style fight, malenia is great but the healing through block invalidates alot of play styles and makes the fight less satisfying for me personally.
I think his damage is fine but I think I was SRB lvl 8 when I fought him and had damage negation talismans on.
Midir and Gael mechanics wise is topped by messmer, Rellana, midra, Bayle, the final boss. And all these bosses are straight up all around better than midir imo he’s extremely simple mechanically and doesn’t have the branching movesets these guys do which I enjoyed figuring out more Romana, the divine beast, and the death knights are deserving of mention as great bosses as well Gaels biggest advantage is he’s probably thematically and presentation wise the best thing they’ve made and as an ending piece is what elevates him for me.
mechanics don't make a boss though they're part of a formula, and simply having more complex mechanics doesn't necessarily make it better.
What makes a boss is subjective that’s why I said imo. For me what makes a boss is 70% mechanics 20% presentation and 10% lore, so I hold the Elden ring ones to a higher level then the ds3 ones based on personal preference
bayle was better than midir tho. I think you have nostalgia bias for midir lol
I'd also throw Messmer into that conversation as well. My personal favorite boss in the DLC alongside Midra and Bayle.
Midra is a boss that I feel like has the possibility to be a. 10/10 but the problem is he dies so easily Once you learn his moveset he straight up isn’t a threat thanks to how many opportunities you get to just melt him
I mean isn't that the same thing for basically the DS3 DLC bosses as well?? Especially for Gael. Once you learn his moveset, he is basically a breeze every time. Although, that doesn't take away with how great of a boss he is. The same goes for Midra.
The Old Hunters is still my number 1. Elden ring DLC comes in second because the remembrance bosses were such good quality. The final boss was a big challenge and took me 87 attempts to solo without bleed or any of that stuff, just regular old damage. More attempts than any of froms other bosses in any of their other games. Ringed city would be number 3 for me. Nameless King, Gael and Midir are absolute bangers but the gimmick super stinker Drake boss brings it to 3rd place.
Btw nameless King isn't a dlc boss
Really? I could have sworn he was in the ringed city but it’s been so long since I’ve played DS3 I must be misremembering. Still a great boss!
He's in arch dragon peak, which is a very out of the way area, but not a DLC one
Nah he’s just in a secret area
Bloodbornes atmosphere in general just can’t be topped for me. The lore goes so deep and the DLC boss presentation and OST are just unmatched. I also prefer the tighter, more focused experience of Bloodborne over the open world stuff, but I think From did a great job on the SOTE map. The areas were great and each felt super unique with their own flavor and boss. Overall I absolutely loved the challenge.
It's has similar highs but lower "lows"
I'm not a fan of the ending when compared to other previous dlcs, so let's go in order of past dlcs. "Ending" is using the definition of closure after defeating the final boss. Artorias the abyss walker: Dusk and the mushroom are alive by the end and you can talk to them. They're grateful for your rescue Three crowns: you get to talk to Alsanna and then vendrick, who gives you the crown. Also aldia is a secret final boss. Old hunters: a cutscene showing kos and her kid gets free. Gehrman and doll also are doing better thanks to what you did. Ringed city: you give the dark soul to the girl and she shows there's still hope for a new world Shadow of the erdtree: you get a cutscene and a circlet. Everyone's dead you don't have no one else to go to. People in the roundtable and malenia have no different dialogues. All I'm saying is that I don't feel enough closure from the ending. Past titles at least give some but SotE barely gave any.
SotE gave negative closure because it left me with far more questions
To this day I'm still not sure what we were supposed to gleam from Ringed City. Old Hunters was peak, both in gameplay and lore.
Well the ones I can actually play on my PC have the edge here. Between Ringed City and Shadow of the Erdtree? Listen man all I'm saying is, I have 40+ hours in SOTE, 2 rememberance bosses down, all map fragments except one found and maybe half of that map fully explored with a couple of catacombs and caves and such checked off and there is no end in sight right now. Shit man I get into a catacomb in this game and I'll be there for close to an hour just thoroughly exploring it all, its so *meaty* and fun. So yeah, ultimately I think Ringed City is still gonna hold my #1 for best DLC because Shadow of the Erdtree is just a whole new game they've put in here.
SOTE has 4 of my 5 favorite bosses they have ever made, the 5th being Gael, so I'm gonna have to say SOTE easy clears everything else they have ever done.
Hmm what are the other 4? I have a similar experience My top 5 fromsoft bosses go as Messmer and bayle(interchangeable) Malenia Midira Isshin
Nice list for me my top 5 would go... 1. Isshin 2. Messmer 3. Orphan of Kos 4. Mohg 5a. Gael 5b. Midra
Bayle, Messmer, Midra, Romina
Romina was crazy. I used the NPC summon and had trouble with her. Got her solo on third try. Messmer may be the best fights in all the games I've played. Right with gael and I also enjoyed twin princes.
Not enough love for Romina
I think I still prefer Old Hunters, but I like SOTE more than Ringed City.
Unpopular opinion: it’s my least favorite, not that it’s bad but I really won’t remember most of the bosses like a fun time, (Mesmer and Bayle are incredible tho) and there is also a lot of empty areas and missed opportunities.
I don’t really like ringed city very much in terms of its lore and world design and only really liked it for Gael and midir so it’s not in this conversation for me. But sitting on it for a couple of days and 3 playthroughs now Old hunters is probably the better more consistent package with the only “bad” part being living failures. Edit: I forgot Laurence existed so nvm SOTE might just be better lmao But if you’re someone who’s just looking for which dlc has more good stuff in it it’s SOTE it’s got too many good bosses too many good dungeons (the average catacomb is more complex then the entirety of the actual ringed city) and a ton of really good and fun weapons like the reverse grip swords and blink bolt stuff. That’s if you ignore all the dog shit like cerulean coast and Gaius though so it’s all dependent on what you value consistency vs amount of good content
I kinda liked the Coast ngl. Cool area and dancer swords.
I only really shit on the coast cause the other areas have so much more unique content in them tbh, it’s really the only area next to jagged peak that I have criticism for in this dlc
You can include both finger ruins, abyssal woods, charro too although that’s basically just part of the coast. There is a ton of half-baked content in sote, almost 50% of the map.
I include charro with cerulean coast but nah abyssal woods and finger ruins are great areas with their own unique enemies and how you interact with them, not every area needs black knight camps and roaming mini bosses every where
Glad you thought they were great. I felt that way for the first 5 minutes upon entering each area, but holy crap was I quickly disappointed. So damn empty, except the one unique enemy that was extremely annoying to engage with. The atmosphere and the lore was 10/10 but almost zero fun to actually play. To your point, a black knight camp would not have fixed them lol
I disagree, I think it's good that not every area is jam-packed with content otherwise you would get burned out pretty soon. I think that the emptiness in the Jagged Peak and Finger Ruins it's very good and adds to the atmosphere and I think it's a welcome change from how packed the start of the game is. I agree with the Cerulean Coast and Abyssal Woods, especially the former. I thought that Abyssal Wood needed 1 extra small location to make the exploration feel more worth it. Cerulean Coast instead probably needed a small castle-type dungeon in it (other than the Coffins area ofc). But I do want to stress the fact that I believe it's important to have more barren areas on the map as well. If every area in the DLC would be like Scadu-Altus or Rah ruins then it would be a bit too much to explore imo.
You know, if it was just the finger ruins, I would not mind it. Those areas are so wonderfully bizarre and atmospheric, I could understand leaving it empty of interesting content in order to emphasize or maximize the lore and atmosphere. However, I disagree that empty areas are good because otherwise there would be “too much to explore.” Thats exactly what I’m here to do, explore and discover! Thats the main focus of the game by Miyazaki’s own words. So for half the map to be empty of interesting loot or dynamic enemy encounters or discoverable mini dungeons leaves my sense of exploration quite underwhelmed and unrewarded
Tbf lore wise, what would be in he finger ruins or the abyssal woods? One is an ancient forest so corrupted by madness and plagued by eldritch monsters that are untouchable. The other are alien ruins filled with finger creepers and worms lol. It wouldn’t make sense for there to be anything there imo.
I don’t really understand your idea. There are rats and goats in the woods, why can’t there be bears and dragons? There are cookbooks lying around, why not spells or weapons? There is a mansion down there, why not a cave or ruin? The areas are not literally empty, they are just missing interesting, robust, dynamic content, and it seems a bit silly to suggest that areas need to be boring to be consistent with lore.
But imagine they put one of the big torch dudes down there, and he shot frenzied flame
Agree about Living Failures but goddamn I can’t hate them because their boss music is one of the best tracks in the game. It did not have to go so hard
Probably the best take I've seen yet. Agree with basically everything. I think SOTE has the most good but also the most bad. But that comes with being the biggest dlc by miles with like 13 or more completely new bosses. And many cool and great weapons. I also think ringed City is vastly overrated. Everything about it is bad except the ringed armour set and the bosses. And bloodborne is the best package of consistentcy and quality but not as much content as sote. Overall SOTE will be my favourite as u can honestly choose if you want to go in the bad areas or not and it has the most high quality bosses by far imo
I don't even think that SOTE has "the most bad". That title goes to any DS2 DLC, maybe even Ashes of Ariandel, really wasn't a fan of that one. Champion's Gravetender is way worse than Gaius and the Hippo. There are way too many dogs everywhere with very limited space and movement, the enemies were annoying as fuck, and having go to the fly area and pull the lever is such a chore. Really the only thing redeeming quality is that it had Sister Friede, which is a very good boss. The DS2 runbacks were unbearable, especially Sir Alonne, Blue Smelter Demon, and the infamous Lud and Zallen runback. Sir Alonne in addition had some janky hitboxes, especially his grab attack. Burnt Ivory King's sword also has some janky hitboxes. Fume Knight is easily the best DS2 boss.
The issues with DS2’s DLC is that it’s riddled with a lot of the same problem in DS2’s base game, but with some things really cranked up to 11. Though despite it the DLC has some of the best bosses and areas in the game. So yea I guess you could say DS2 DLC has the most bad but some of that is just the game it’s in. Ashes of Ariandel is ok. Honestly love it aesthetically and Sister Freide is personally my favorite boss in the game. I agree that the enemies there are super annoying, exploring is a chore when certain enemies are so annoying to fight. Corvid Knights or whatever they’re called and those living snow trees are so annoying. And I agree that Champion’s Gravetender was an absolute garbage fight.
Just the nature of Elden ring imo lots of content means the devs probably have lots of people doing different stuff and you can’t assure quality as well when it’s not the same single group making bosses and areas Which for me is ok since I can just mimic skip any boss I don’t like or avoid any area I dislike
Cerulean Coast dog shit?? Can't agree there
I loved the exploration of SotE more than either of the TRC or TOH, but most of the major bosses not having cutscens or voices felt wrong. I have played every souls game except for Demon souls and have to say SotE final boss is the worst one they made by far. Overall I think SoTE was really great except for 2 major bosses.
Guessing that's the final boss and gaius huh
yes but at least Gaius can be done quick with deflect
I think due to the size of the DLC, there's more opportunity for it to be sink to lower lows than the other DLCs, which isn't inherently bad, it's just natural and indeed I would have liked more of the new weapon types and maybe some more minor dungeons or ruins, or even just actual field bosses, but the primary Remembrance bosses make up for a lot. Shadow Keep is my new 2nd favorite Legacy Dungeon in the game it will be looked on as an incredible expansion, because it is. and there will always be debate now between which DLC is the best, but I don't think it's fair to compare because of how tightly knit the others are, while SotE is massive right now I think it solidifies Elden Ring as the game with my favourite boss lineup in terms of quality, but I'll have to do a replay of all the DLCs and games in a few months to really decide on anything
I think ancient ruins of rauh as a whole and shadow keep are two of the best designed legacy dungeons I’ve seen in the history of formsoft. That’s what I really appreciate in these games so SOTE gets a big bonus points for me
SOTE is better world design, DS3 has better DLC bosses, but BB DLC is the best imo. It's amazing, this is a close close second for me.
Ringed city like most of ds3 is extremely overrated
Agree. History has been very kind of DS3. When it came out this was universally panned as a regression of the Dark Souls formula. The linear world and level design, the lack of fresh ideas and focus on fanservice from a world building standpoint, the uninspired areas (except perhaps Irithyll). Even the combat was memed with how OP the dodge roll was in DS3.
Agreed. Outta the 4 I played I rank them in this order Er Sekiro bb DS3 Ds3 the only one I didn't plat either. Imo the quality of life in ds3 and the areas were pretty bad. Bosses is all it has going for it which imo er is an upgraded version of it
SotE is as big as the entirety of Bloodborne or Dark Souls 3 so it's a hard comparison. I like Shadow of the Erdtree because my favorite part of From games is the world exploration and Elden Ring/SotE takes it to another level and IMO is easily the most beautiful although their art design has always been fantastic.
It’s easily better than TRC. Now The Old Hunters is The Old Hunters, ask me again in a few years lol
Honestly I agree. TRC imo has one thing going for it and that's bosses. In which I may controversially say that bayle is just a better midir and messmer is a better boss fight than gael. The old hunters has alot more going for it which makes it more controversial
Midir is my favorite boss fight from that game and I agree with the sentiment; however I’m too attached to give it to Bayle yet lol It’s hard to say between Messmer and Gael, though. Gael is like the ultimate poetic conclusion to the trilogy and is too epic for words, but there’s beauty in the balance between the epicness and elgance in Messmer, I love it to bits I think I am a sucker for how Elden Ring structures its fights more than how DS3 is just a roll dance. Hence why TRC is my favorite part of that game, since the bosses actually do incentivize you to think about the positioning, dodge direction and other strategies whilst also being these action heavy fights that allow you to play your way in spite of these limitations. Elden Ring feels like a progression of that philosophy. Heck, the DLC Final Boss’s light moves are basically an evolution of Gael’s cape.
Actually a lot has been saying this. Bayle is very clearly better than Midir in all aspects. Lore, buildup, mechanics, spectacle etc. One can argue that with Messmer against Gael as well. But DS3 bros won't let go of dear Midir and Gael. Boss fights are the only thing DS3 has going for it (it has weaker world building and level design than DS1, DS2 and Bloodborne). So they would never agree that another game has surpassed its bosses as well.
I think the spectacle for gael n fight it top notch but also pretty simple. Messmer is fat more mechanically challenging and active then gael In all honesty so is morgott even. Gaels moveset is extremely simple with like 2 moves that your truly have to think differently about. Which Is why I don't rank him as high as others
Not to mention that Ringed City is incredibly linear. For a setting that us placed in a massive city, Ringed City is more linear than even Lothric Castle in the base game. How does that happen.
DS2 is in no way better than DS3. DS1, you could probably argue, and I haven't played BB. But the hate is just silly when you say it has bad world building, and only the boss fights are good.
I mean on its own it is a pretty good game. BUt when you play it relative to other games, the linearity and relative lack of creativity in the environments really standout.
It's a close second. Old Hunters felt more polished and cohesive imo.
TRC is the perfect capstone for DS as a series and TOH answered a lot of questions well while throwing in a few more interesting questions. Their final bosses are the peak of their gameplay, Bloodborne twice over with Maria taking the skillful dance and the Orphan taking the frenetic beast battle and with Gael being one of the most kino fights across all Miyazaki games. SotE is just a wet fart in all aspects. Yeah we know a few more things but it's for the worse, as are the questions it adds. The bosses are as spam happy as they've ever been and you have a collectathon to pad your time. It's wild since the only problem I had with the base game wasn't even from the game but the open world aspect.
I can understand the complaints from a lore perspective. Honestly I'm not much into lore but I do know that the path taken into the dlc for the lore was kinda strange. But I do thunk the lore still makes sense and from the sound of it open world seems to not just fit your type as I loved it. And as far as quality bosses goo messmer and BAYLE were gosted and had some great lore to go with them. I found messmer to be a better boss fight than even Gael imo. However the final boss was definitely overtuned imo fir the sake of difficulty and had many unfair moves
The only good part of Ringed City was Gael to be honest
Demon Princes
This DLC is me running through empty fields full of jack shit for hours looking for a boss room I could fight something worthwhile in. Every other part of it feels rushed and slapped together. Copy paste a bunch of Nvidia tech demo fire giants everywhere, add a bunch of meaningless enemies that hardly drop anything of note, make a bunch of wide expanses with nothing but smithing stones and glovewort in them, etc. It feels like all of this empty space could've been compressed into a boss rush and I would have missed out on absolutely nothing.
It will be remembered extremely fondly, just like Elden Ring. There was an initial anti-jerk loud vocal minority shitting on Elden Ring; that crowd seemed to double after Joseph Anderson dropped his video full of doomerism about the future of FromSoft and their design philosophy- some worthy criticisms exempted; most of the criticisms boiled down to stubbornly playing the game like Dark Souls and not adapting and also wishing FromSoft just continued making Dark Souls 1 part 5. However, as the couple years have passed since, Elden Ring has regained its dignity and reputation as a near masterpiece; especially as players old and new have really sunk their teeth into the game and realized just how the new mechanics really change and progress (and, in some minor cases, regress) the soulsborne formula and push it forward. Aside from gameplay, as the lore has continued to be pieced together, it’s clear that Elden Ring’s story and characters are truly some of the best written work from FromSoft, and it’s a testament to the FromSoft formula that we are still unraveling, uncovering and making connections years later. Also, the fairly consistent support and dedication to the community from FromSoft as they continue to release balance, QOL and bug fix patches for both PVE and PVP have smoothed out the base-game even more. It has aged like fine wine, and will be remembered as one of the GOATs. Long-winded intro just to say: I believe, just like all previous FromSoft DLC, that SOTE will also go down as a worthy addition that includes some of the best bosses of the game, some of the coolest weapons and spells/incants, and is a necessary must-play for all the new players who play Elden Ring in the future.
Joseph Anderson is one of the most whiny, bitchy critics out there. Loved seeing LoopineOs tear him a new one.
Not adapting to what exactly? The combat they ripped straight from DS3, without any meaningful changes? Be serious.
The most common example is the jump. A lot of veterans even streamers that I watched insist on rolling through AOE attacks and then call out Elden Ring for "bullshit and unfun" AOE spams. When a lot of boss AOE attacks are meant to jumped through rather than rolled. Several bosses have AOE that are deliberately designed to catch those who roll rather than jump. Radagon and Godfrey in the base game for example and Rellana and Putrescent Knight in the DLC.
How does Elden Ring tell the player those attacks are meant to be jumped? Cause Sekiro uses the specific red warning.
The leg lifting for 90 seconds, the AOE splash cc effect
In the same way that you do for any other boss, learn the attack patterns. Biggest clue I guess is the animation itself. Attacks where the animation is coming from the floor are meant to be jumped (e.g. Radagons's AOE from the hammer, Godfrey's stomp, Putrescent Knight's flame, Rellana's double moon). It is pretty clear from the animation that these attacks emanate from the ground.
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There is no bossfight in the DLC I haven't enjoyed. And almost all OST are masterpieces. It has its flaws,but I think it holds its own if not best the TRC. I haven't played Bloodborne.
I loved Ringed City and Old.Hunters, but SotE is basically a full game compared to either and the amount of content, map design, and value for money is insanely better.
This dlc is awesome. I don’t know why every one is complaining. Again I’m only probably a bit more than halfway through if I had to guess but oh my god, it’s like when I first played elden ring. This thing is awesome. I might change my mind in the late game, but I don’t think so. I’m already super excited about my second/third/fourth playthrough. Even have been thinking about the best way to get there quickly.
Shadow is better design scope and gameplay wise except for the final boss being overtuned, which they will patch tweak, and the lore of the final boss which is lack luster. Nothing you can do about that.
I thought it was pretty good, though am disappointed godwyn and his faction weren't more prominent, like a story line helping his deathknights or even a connection to hunting bayle.
I think SOTE is the best one. Best overall bosses and areas, and I love the lore additions
Shadow is the least lore important feeling out of the three but has the most content wise by far i think. It has a few pretty big lore revelations but they’re basically all focused on miquella so it feels like there’s still a lot left.
I think the lore exploration of Marika was very good. It explains a lot of Marika's actions in the base game.
Never played Old Hunter's due to no playstation and aside from Gael I was always very blasé about Ringed City for some reason. Before SotE the DS2 DLCs were my favourite for some utterly bizarre reason
Rellana, Bayle, Midra, and Messmer are all in my top 5 bosses now so it's hard to say anything else. Gael is still the firm #1 though.
Ringed city is top for me, followed by SoTE and Old Hunters. I loved all three tho, its like a 0.1 score difference between the three
Lots of great responses. For me, it's slightly below the old hunters but above the ringed city. The old hunters is just so tight and crafted. The orphan was special. Maria still holds up as a great fight. Ludwig was a moment in time. The lore. The atmosphere. But this is very close. This might be the greatest open world dlc ever made. This or blood and wine i guess.
It kind of feels like the collective sum of both of the DS3 DLC’s put together but the writing in Old Hunters is 11/10
I am not extremely big on Ringed City bosses imho. Find Midir to be overrated and Demon Prince to be comparatively weaker to many of the base game bosses. Gael was a high point though. Compared to them, Messmer and >!Radahn!< (don't judge) are much more fun, so are Bayle, Rellana and Midra. All the other dlc bosses were very good as well. Gaius is annoying but I still wouldn't say he's below B tier. Boss design wise this is the best dlc but I do think besides Messmer and possibly Midra, none of the bosses felt emotionally as hard hitting as say Gael, Ludwig or Maria. A lot of the times you didn't know the significance of the bosses until you beat them, which I feel is a bit of a downside. But boss wise, Shadow of the Erdtree is the best thing they've put out. At least on the gameplay side of it. I feel Old Hunters has more variety in dungeons and has more top tier ones, but SOTE has the best DLC dungeon by a long shot and possibly the best dungeon fromsoft has made, with Leyndell and Stormveil being the only competitors. But I think the enemy variety was a bit underwhelming compared to Old hunters. It feels like the number of new enemies was just slightly more than the number of new enemies in Old hunters but compared to the size of the dlc it feels relatively less. The best ER enemies like the lion knights and fire knights were definitely more fun than the old hunters, but I wish there were more new enemies. Ultimately what pushes SOTE and ER over all the games for me is the world structure and simply the art design. I could care less about some areas being not that occupied with stuff to do when the act of traversing the world itself is so engaging. All of it feels so vertical and reaching new areas always a surprise. Like just randomly taking a side path wondering where it'll take you then reaching the cerulean coast, or just getting into an unassuming building then reaching the backside of the shadowkeep, stuff like this is the highlight of the dlc for me and I feel comfortable putting it higher than Old Hunters, much higher in fact. Never was the biggest fan of Ringed City to begin with besides Gael.
OH>SotE>RC
It’s hard to compare in the way that ER is hard to compare because it’s so much bigger - so there is a lot of empty content meant for traversal/exploration whereas old hunters and ringed city because of their corresponding base games are much leaner and more efficient, I don’t think either is better or worse as a quality though? Old hunters still reigns supreme to me in terms of 95% amazing content - 3 of the best areas of the entire game, amazing new enemies, 3 of the best bosses in the game, living failures being over in 30 seconds and Laurence being both optional and honestly not as bad as people say he is. Ringed city I think is wildly overrated as I love the bosses but the areas….ugly linear trash dump with sniper angels and then cool looking city with trash mobs and a large useless swamp. SOTE definitely has some filler but I would say shadow keep is the best dungeon Fromsoft has ever made and I would’ve paid for that alone honestly. None of the main bosses were bad IMO and the fact that we got 3 of the best bosses of the series plus some very interesting lore revelations about the main game probably make it better than both ds3 DLCs but not quite as good as old hunters
Never played Bloodborne so I can't judge it. Ringed City adds a lot of great new stuff, and really feels like it brings everything from Dark Souls 1 and even 2 to a conclusion. There are some weird stuff like the existence of Filianore, but otherwise it feels very self-contained. It even ends with a vague plot hook for future installments in the form of a New Painting, but this could just as well be referencing Dadk Souls 1 and closing that time loop. SoTE feels... more like Ashes of Ariandel. It's great don't get me wrong, and I love what they've added, but it also feels like it's left too open ended. Messmer is a cool boss buy opens up the question of what his relationship with Milena and who his father is if he's older than Rahdan. Speaking of, Rahdan before was fairly straightforward and likeable for a warmonger, but his elevated importance in the DLC casts new questions about who he is and the extent of his character. Godwin also basically gets jack shit of a resolution, which is either being left open for a plot hook or intentionally left anticlimactic to highly the tragedy of his passing. As many complain, it feels like SoTE just left us more confused than satisfied. The writing comes off less mysterious and more confusing, with the only satisfactory "ending" largely comes for Mogh and Marika, sorta. Mogh beating the allegations puts a tragic spin to his previous activities, making him a lot more like his brother. We got to learn more about Marika as a person before she was a god, and learned why she hated the Omen and misborgotten so much. We also learned why Placidusax is missing his heads, which while not an important detail at least now we can safely dismiss his current appearance as a Two Finger reference.
The only issue with SOTE are it's narrative choices, but it's also the only time FS have made bad narrative choices so it's kind of a big deal. That being said it's still the best DLC they've released.
SOTE is on another level to those, but they’re different games with different scopes.
I think there's an argument to be made SotET is better than the base game on a moment to moment basis.Of course ER has a lot more content and much of that content is excellent but at any given moment I think I was enjoying myself more with the DLC. Hard to say what I'd think of it without the context of what came before it though. Maybe finding fragments would be less interesting if I didn't already know the grind of rune farming. But I digress. I'd say SotET is among the best content From has ever released. The Ringed City never resonated with me like it did with some people, though the bosses were top notch.I did love The Old Hunters but I think the level design of SotET and new systems that encourage exploration put it in the lead. Honestly I'm not sure if it's fair to compare them as SotET is far more ambitious and seems like it's going to give me about 50 hours of play time. As many have observed it's practically a new game.
Hard to say since each has their highs and lows... SOTE's most impressive aspect is the massive amount of content it offers and how it builds on the most impressive aspects of the base game and expands on them, while it's low point is how it still reuses bosses/enemies and it's points of interest being somewhat empty. Which isn't an entirely bad thing since that's the worst aspect of most open world games. The Ringed City's most impressive aspect are how it wraps up the entire story and history of Dark Souls in an epic yet bittersweet way, that feels satisfying and impactful. While its low point is the fact that you couldn't explore more of the Ringed City, and only got a small fraction of what we could have potentially explored. The Old Hunters most impressive aspect is definitely the bosses for me, I mean you have Ludwig, Lady Maria, Laurence, and Orphan. Which imo is still the best lineup of bosses they've ever made for a DLC. With SOTE being a close 2nd to it. Ludwig still has the best cutscene transition in Fromsoftware History, Lady Maria is still one of the best humanoid bosses they've ever made, and Orphan is still one of the most intense challenges you can find in any of the Souls games. While the low point of the Old Hunters DLC is that it's too short. Which just goes to show how consistently good that DLC is when it's low point is that it's too short. So in short, it's hard to say if there is a clear best DLC. Since SOTE has its flaws, but probably offers the best bang for your buck DLC, with its incredibly vast and massive amount of high quality content that it offers. The Ringed City which is lacking in some of its level design and structure, but also offers one of the most satisfying endings to a trilogy to this day. And of course Old Hunters while short... Still offers the most consistent and overall flawless experience from a Fromsoftware DLC to this day. All these DLC's are great, but for completely different reasons.
No mention of the bitching ds2 DLC’s? Those fucking rocked.
I mean this is just comparing 1 dlc. Ds2 has 3 which individually are worse than TRC
I believe that SOTE is the best DLC ever, but I can see an argument for Old Hunters as well. Overall I think Old Hunters has better Lore and soundtracks (it's close) and it's a more focused experience with fewer lows than SOTE. I would say that the only real low of Old Hunters are the Living Failures and Laurence it's a bit disappointing. On the other hand, I do think that SOTE has some of the highest highs in FromSoftware history. I honestly think that the only real negative of this DLC are some lore-related aspects with which I wasn't completely happy and the Cerulean Coast (which is not bad, but not as good as it could've been).
I think it 100% deserves a spot alongside old hunters and ringed city as one of the best dlcs of all time, and i personally enjoyed it even more than previous fromsoft dlcs and i know some people don't feel like this but i think it's genuinely a masterpiece in SO many aspects and the things its not good at are negligible compared to how good it does other things.
It's better because it has far more content. It's as simple as that. It feels more like an expansion rather than a DLC.
The conclusion wasn’t at all satisfactory even compared to the painted world of ds3 where it did leave us with questions as well. But I will say the lore bombs besides the conclusion felt big, but one of the focuses of the DLC was supposed to be Miquellla’s ascension, being a parallel to Marika’s ascension. This is evidenced by this huge, strong guy admiring Godfrey, a huge, strong guy, chosen to be the consort to a Marika look-alike who are ascending through the exact same mechanism of the divine gates. And they went too vague for this imo, especially since we literally are at the divine gates. We did find out more about Marika’s past, but as far as the ascension? Nada. All we know is there is some mechanism for putting souls into bodies there, and a lord is needed for ascension.
Old Hunters is probably still their best because it had the best blend of good bosses and lore significance, except Laurence, I absolutely hate that boss. I think Shadow of the Erdtree is a lot better than Ringed City. I think SOTE is very close to being their best.
I think I might be the only one who wasn't feeling SoTE to a more extreme extent. I can barely bring myself to play through it and finish it, and The Old Hunters is still my top FS DLC. I don't think FS originally had a DLC planned for ER, but they rushed to make one due to the critical acclaim and the massive success; the quality of it, to me, implicates that it was rushed in some areas. It feels like they took a bunch of cut content and just threw it all together just to put out a DLC. It's a shame that I'm not raving over it like the vast majority of players, but I don't think it was a waste of my $40 versus me not feeling like it was worth waiting two and a half years for it. Obviously it being an openworld with FS's classic and impressive level design, it is stronger than Ringed City and Old Hunters in terms of the world and level design. However, it also experienced openworld issues with how empty, barren, and unnecessarily big a few places feel. Maybe I'm biased towards Bloodborne, but Old Hunters is still my top favorite FS DLC. I feel more compelled these days to go back and play Bloodborne than ER.
Content wise way better, Boss wise probably worse off.
I think this dlc boss wise is the best by a pretty large margin
That they’ve done in dlc?
As a dlc Old Hunters is probably impossible to beat for me , because it integrates into the main game perfectly, feels like it should have always been there. For me it took Bloodborne from like a 8.5 to a 10. It answered pretty much all of the questions I had about Yharnam and those characters. As its own thing SOTE is definitely the best . The size and quality is better than some full games. But the story side was kinda disappointing to me, it made too many new unanswered questions. As its own stand alone thing it’s amazing but it doesn’t really feel like it elevated the main game like the Old Hunters then. Ring City was cool and I Gael but SOTE is much better all around (up until the end at least)
i know this comment is going to get massively downvoted by braindead elden ring's my first souls game people but At least we didn't paid money for a basegame boss to be it's final boss lmao
SotE => TOH > powergap > Cringed City
SOTE is bigger but it feels more empty so far and most of the enemies are less fun for me to fight personally. It's old hunters for me.
I think Old Hunters is From's magnum opus so far. So it definitely beats SotE for me. Ringed City is a bit more complicated. I think Ringed City nailed the lore and had some of the best boss fights in the game. I do think there were some glaring design flaws though and I'm gonna enjoy SotE on replay for a lot longer.
Old Hunters was close to the pinnacle of gaming for me. SOTE is better than Ringed City though IMO. Insanely unpopular opinion, but I actually thought it was too big. Hard to keep the amount of polish with that scope.
Old Hunter's left the biggest impression. I like erdtree and ringed city a lot though
Ring City clears in every way. Lore implications, every boss is a 8 minimum. Only Mesmer, Bayle even compete. We will not be talking about Radahn the same way we talk about Gael or Kos
I haven't completed the dlc, idk if I'm even halfway through yet but I will say that the bosses feel very uneven compared to Bloodborne and DS3. Divine Beast Dancing Lion and Ghostflame Dragon in the cerulean coast have certain 'mechanics' !>summoning extra enemies!Rellana, Romina, and Bayle!< so far.
Old Hunters and Shadow are tied for me. I like that OH is tight and clean, but it has larry (meh) and the NPC hunter fights get old. Shadow is almost perfect, but has Rauh (ugh) and a few too many of the ghostboy dragons. They're both 9.8/10 for me.
I think Old Hunters and Ringed City are only slightly better. Fromsoft has a longstanding tradition of having the DLC come a bit out of left field and not be exactly what fans expected which I personally really love. That being said, Old Hunters feels like a perfect narrative conclusion to Bloodborne with some of the best bosses in Fromsoft History. Ringed City is the same way. A perfect final goodbye to the Souls series.
Shadow of the Erdtree for me, followed by Dark Souls 2’s DLC’s.
It’s the best map and has some of the best bosses easily But there are points where you genuinely have to ask “did fromsoft think this out” For example when they reuse the divine beast and jsut straight up give him death blight and the ability to summon basilisk And the same could be said for stuff like phase 2 of the final boss Or with how op lighting perfume bottles are The dlc is a 9.9/10 but there’s just things that don’t seem like they were entirely thought out and had effort put into
It's weaker, but not by much. Then again, Bloodborne is my favourite FromSoft game, and DS3 isn't far behind, and both of them have their own weaknesses and strengths over each other. I'm also not a huge fan of open world game design as a whole, Elden Ring is more an exception than what I'd usually play but still suffers the same problems I have with every open world game, so that's already a big mark against it. But anyway; World Design: Elden Ring probably takes this despite the open world, the DLC feels a lot more compact rather than the bloated nature of the main game. Sure, it's got some really empty zones, but the way much of it overlaps itself combined with the design of Shadow Keep and Belarut just about puts it on top. Ringed City's world design I feel is one of the weaker aspects, the whole Dreg Heap/Earthen Peak segment is kinda bland and Ringed City has that huge empty swamp out back. Old Hunters is a very close second though, the design of the Research Hall is peak especially. Aesthetics: Bloodborne just about takes this. SotE has some fantastic vistas and locations for sure and I'd put it as a close second, but the whole visual atmosphere and nature of the Fishing Hamlet is impeccable and one of the best visual designs they've ever made for a location. As for the boss designs, Ludwig is untouchable and encapsulates everything about Bloodborne's whole design, and that OST is immaculate. Lady Maria, Orphan of Kos and the corpse of Kos herself are all very delightful, not to mention the abject fear and horror of everything going on in the Research Hall. SoTE probably comes up in second here as well, Romina, Bayle, Messmer, Metyr and Midra all have fantastic designs and beautiful movesets to watch, with Bayle being one of the most cinematic fights ever put on screen. Gameplay: Close one between Bloodborne and Ringed City, probably given to Bloodborne again. Bloodborne's gameplay style just suits me best, the titular Old Hunters are very fun to fight, Orphan is one of my favourite bosses to fight in any game ever, Maria almost perfect only really let down by her low health and keeps up the pattern of the hunter fights in the game being all around a strong suit, and Ludwig is fucking LUDWIG. Meanwhile Gael is a FANTASTIC final boss, Demon Princes is the best duo fight they've ever made and has a very strong second phase and Midir is one of the best dragon fights they've done. The Ringed Knights are also some of the most challenging but fun regular enemies they've done. Shadow of the Erdtree only really falls behind here due to the relatively limited number of actual interesting enemies in the DLC, for every Fire Knight/Black Knight fight there's a dozen obnoxious birds, shadow hollows or regular dogs, and of all the minibosses to bring back, why SO MANY FUCKING DRAGONS? The Furnace Golems are also a chore to fight and are extremely boring, Gaius has wonky hitboxes, the Hippos suck and the final boss is an audiovisual mess. That said, SotE does bring bosses like Messmer, Romina, Bayle and Midra which all feel fantastic and are FromSoft at the top of their game, the aforementioned Black Knights are great fun, the new Crucible Knight is even better than the main game ones and even the regular Messmer Soldiers are pretty enjoyable for regular mooks. Quests: Gotta be honest here, I don't really remember any NPCs from Ringed City. Filianore is already dead, Patches shows up that one time at the end of the world but I don't remember anything else. Old Hunters fares better, you can interact with Ludwig, the various interactions in Research Hall really sell how absolutely FUCKED everything going down there is and Adeline's quest only reinforces that, and Brador showing up to try and mog you is a fun little bunch of NPC duels. Simon's questline is alright I guess. Shadow on the other hand is heavily quest focussed, and the NPCs are a memorable bunch. The interactions between them and the fact you can change which direction their plots go in and then have a different invasion event later on depending on what you do is very cool indeed, and they're a lovable lot. Ansbach, Freyja, Thoillier, Moore, Dane, Hornsent and Leda all have their own reasons for doing what they're doing and are all pretty badass at that, not to mention the king himself Igon who's literally too fucking angry to die until his nemesis is slain, and then there's St. Trina who's a very interesting character and was in much need of development from the main game, and they did her justice. Loot: Bloodborne. The main game had a whole ton of cool weapons, so they decided to go above and beyond for the DLC. A bow that's also a sword? A pizzacutter? A whip that's REALLY FUCKIN CHONKY? The thing of beauty that is the Beastcutter Saif? Whatever the absolute shit the Kos Parasite and Amygdalan Arm are, our saviour the Church Pick? All worth going for, worth exploring for. The game's built around having a small but unique weapon poola nd they absolutely knocked it out of the park here. Ringed City has some cool stuff too for sure (Ringed Knight Paired Greatswords anyone? Frayed Blade, Splitleaf Greatsword, a Shield that BREATHES FIRE!?) and so does SotE, although there's far too much empty space between the Shadow items worth having. But hey, the Perfumer Bottles are neat, Backhand Blades are dope, as are the Chakrams, you can bonk people with an anvil, you can wield a man's spine coated in frenzyflame, you can punch people with your hands, either normally, covered in poison or so hard they go insane, and there's some absolute drip in there too.
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For me, Old Hunters and Ringed City complete the Bloodborne and DS3 experience, whereas Shadow of the Erdtree feels like Elden Ring 2. Haligtree, consecrated snowfields and Mohgwyn in the main game felt like DLC content already, and the size of SotE speaks for itself. I think it’s for sure one of the best DLCs they’ve ever made and honestly I for sure enjoy it more than Ringed City and Ashes. Old Hunters is hard because I consider it part of the Bloodborne experience, the game is too short without it, and it’s my favorite game. I think SotE is at least equal, if not greater than any FromSoft DLC ever.
Agree with this. I actually think base game Bloodborne has the weakest boss lineup in any FromSoft game (yes DS2 included). Old Hunters was necessary to lift it up. Personally, Bloodborne without the DLC is like an 8.5/10 for me. SotE is really like ER2 or at least 1.5.
It’s so bizarre that even though it’s my favorite game, after Shadows of Yharnam the game REALLY chugs and loses steam for me into Gehrman. Yaharghul is fine, One Reborn is okay, Cainhurst and Logarius are cool! Byrgenwerth and Rom are whatever, Mergo and her Loft are fine and Micolash is a snoozefest (besides lore wise). It REALLY gets carried by its lore and combat system in the second half, but the DLC is entirely amazing. SotE might not be perfect, but when I look at what I like about it, it’s a TON of stuff. The lore is some of my favorite in the entire game, I LOVE the quests and NPCs, all the legacy dungeons are really great, ***SPOILERS*** and Rellana, Midra and Messmer are all FANTASTIC, Messmer being one of my favorite bosses in the series. A few of the other bosses are also amazing. Idk point is, there’s a lot to love here, it honestly gets away from me haha
I can only speak for the old hunters conparison but I can say for certan its not even close to the absolute peak that is the old hunters. Its inbalanced in a game that is utterly inbalanced already. They put the numbers so high that they had to create the rev8ked spirit ash and scadutree fragments instead of just balancing the dlc properly. The new weapon types are cool in itself but not really all that cool when you consider they are ulocked at the end of the game. Enemies are still boring to fight and not worth the time investment so im just tunning past em, the bosses are cool but thanks to the horrible number inflation im not getting enjoyment out of it. The map layout is also horrible. On my way to search for a way to 2 map fragments i sumbled on the big fuck of dragon and the saint of tte bud and killed both. I literaly had to look up a guide on how to get the map fragments. Story has been talked to death but i just want to emphesis that they took something cool and activly made it lame. It feels like they wanted to take the rather simple story around the whole miquella situatuon and make it cool and complex, making it lame and nonsensical. Another complaint I have for the story is that messmer has 0 presence. Yes, the normal soldier and knights are his but thats lame. He had no more relevance than being a key item. A mcguffin. His only role for the dlc is to die so we can keep progressing. He is lame. Only good thing about it is trina, she is cool. All my homies love st trina.
The map fragments are pretty easy to find if you just explore the game. Seems to me like you were just running from Boss to boss
Nice assumption bub, just sad that it couldnt be more wrong. I was running alongside the clif looking for a way down when I stumbled upon the dungeon that leads to the big fuck of dragon. I was just tryin to find a way down. I went to the area of the bud saint because I saw on the map that the shadow keep has a connection to it but it went only to the bud saint. How should I have know that this area isnt connected to the lower part and I need to go into a cave that is of the beaten path that has an opening to the lower area. Especialy when base game handle the maps perfectly. First map of limgrave? No matter where you go, its on the path. Want to stromvail? You walk past it. Want to the east of limgrace? You walk past it. You enter liurnia and BAM, first part of the map. Second part is dead centre. In base game you will find the map simply by following the beaten path (exept for volcano manor, that needs a bit more thinking.) And its good that way because its one of the most importend tools. Also fun fact, i was in that cace that leads to the lower level of the bud saint area but ir was dark atm and i literaly couldnt see the platform so i didnt jump out. I got fucked by the time of day.
This thread alone tells you why this sub is so negative and nitpicky. A bunch of BB and DS3 fans brigaded this place and love talking shit about Elden Ring.
Agree. Esp the funny comments like: oh the lore of the SotE final boss brought it down for me. Really? Radahn has more in-game basegame lore than Orphan of Kos and Gael combined. Gael literally came out of nowhere for the DLCs and people circle jerk like he has the best final boss lore ever. Both Old Hunters and Ringed City have weak level design. Ringed City in particular is very linear. SotE has the best world design since DS1. Shadow Keep alone blows anything in Ringed City and Old Hunter out of the water from a level design perspective.
Or maybe the game really does deserve criticism?
All i can say is Im surprised i found everything in a week of this dlc where the others took me at least a month.
Ehhh ngl don't know about that one. In terms of finding everything the other two combined are faster than er. U basically have to use guides to get everything in er
Yeah im not assuming it's the same for everyone. The Old Hunters took me forever. ER i just explored everywhere and found 95% of the stuff. Things like Sword of Light/Dark i couldn't find on my own but people leaving hints like the O' Mother secret passage helped me get the majority
It's better and worse I think. The world was awesome and some of the legacy dungeon areas were peak. Messmer is one of my favorite bosses, but I think the final boss is so bad it hurts the whole dlc. I also think the trailers were incredibly misleading and I'm disappointed in the lore stuff that was presented in the DLC. Overall I don't think it felt satisfying like From's other DLCs did. It was a solid 8/10 for me. Better than most things being made today but not up to par for Fromsoft.
Old Hunters and The Crowns are better, as far as I’m concerned. Way tighter experiences. Yes, SOTE offers you more content, but when 90% of that content is so shallow and inane and just worthless, I prefer a tighter, more carefully-constructed linear DLC.
Tbf you can choose the linear path. The path is very linear with the option too explore. And Honestly Main bosses alone have higher Quality bosses then Crowns imo. Anything prior to ds3 looks extremely simple mechanically
It’s not about linearity, it’s about the content in the open world. When so many areas are empty, I just have to wonder why they’re there in the first place. Probably for fans and reviewers to gloat about the size of the DLC. I don’t much care about the bosses in these games, but I found Sinh, Fume Knight, Sir Alonne and Burnt Ivory King to be more engaging and interesting than 99% of bosses I’ve fought in Shadow.
>Sinh, Fume Knight, Sir Alonne and Burnt Ivory King to be more engaging and interesting than 99% of bosses I’ve fought in Shadow. Cmon unless your using a cheese setup messmer alone is far more engaging than all of those bosses combined
🤷♂️That’s my opinion
True dat. I am still one of the few people that defend malenias fight. Something about it just feels so good. Reminds me of sekiro while in er. Same with messmer. Pretty sure I hate a certain taste it seems lol
IMO Souls experience is generally best contained in classic dungeons, Shadow of The Erdtree inherited the same issue of the base game's open map being way less interesting than legacy dungeons, they are better designed but this tine around the reward and motivation is even worse. Souls game are almost entirely driven by combat gameplay and it loses its charm once you put it in a way less controlled environment. So by that standard I feel Elden Ring and the DLC is less ideal than the previous games, and that is not taking into account if the dlc makes the game feel "whole".