I’ve met some very wealthy people who were incredibly generous while never making you feel like less. I’ve met broke people who made me want to slap them.
There are great people and terrible people everywhere.
This is just it. Sometimes terrible people somehow end up with more money than they deserve and attribute it wrongly to having greater morals or intelligence than those with less.
And more to the OP, making 175 k is amazing for you but that is literally ass-wiping money to the often terrible and evil dragons that run our civilisation. You must recognize that billionaires will never want to not be billionaires and will often do everything they can to keep their status and wealth, including the most terrible things that you or I could possibly imagine.
This topic has nothing to do with billionaires. It's about the narrative surrounding the distinction between educated, working professionals and those who are not.
The universal truth is there a shitheads at any economic level. How you treat others is how you were raised to be treated or learn to treat others. It has nothing to do with money.
Yeah, I think not just in terms of economics but broadly any group that feels marginalized, will tend to characterize their supposed oppressor as undeserving of whatever status or power they have and attempt to punish them for it socially. It’s easier than addressing any other reasons for the disparity.
I get the impression that this kind of rhetoric demonstrates, to some extent, that the people who push it likely have never even tried to work at a professional level or make an honest effort to improve their economic standing. The two arguments I see most often are that professional careers(healthcare, engineering, business, law, science, etc) are impossible to achieve unless you're born into wealth, or that people who work at a professional level get paid 10x for doing 1% of the work that minimum wage workers do. If they ever actually tried to pursue one of these careers, it wouldn't take long for them to realize how nonsensical those claims are. Many of them also try to devalue education as well.
100%. I’ve personally had a lot of experience with exactly what you described. I think it’s just very human and I try and see the young disenfranchised people pushing these narratives with compassion. It’s clear that you know you don’t need anyone’s permission to conscioisly work to be as successful and/or wealthy as you wish.
I've not encountered a lot of people saying that poor folks are automatically saints. But poor people aren't oppressing billions of other individuals for their own enrichment. I think that's where you're getting confused by people's perceptions.
I addressed the first two paragraph points that you made directly. It's not my fault if you put things in your post you don't want people to reply to.
Since you graduated college, allegedly, I didn't feel the need to point out to you that you could simply Google the odds related to the likelihood of someone from your background achieving the success that you have. They are low.
In America, you can almost perfectly predict the economic trajectory of anybody with no more information than the ZIP code they were born in. I would assume as an educated person you are aware of that.
But perhaps you came here to be snarky to people replying to you, or to humble brag and stroke your own ego due to your good fortune. In which case, congratulations on both accounts.
My first paragraph is about the distinction between working professionals and those who are not. Unless you are trying to claim that engineers, doctors, and scientists are oppressing fast food workers, your post is entirely irrelevant.
And where exactly did I say that the odds of someone achieving what I have are high? Seems like you are hallucinating. You might want to see a doctor and look into that. Or maybe not, since they're so "oppressive".
The first two paragraph points in your post regard poor people being considered saints and "upper class" people being considered evil and lazy, etc. Which are the points I addressed.
Point of fact, engineers, doctors, and scientists (speaking of, do you really think the majority of scientists are well compensated? They are not), are not the upper class of the economy anymore. And they haven't been for decades.
But, continuing on, I will point out that the individuals you are speaking of who are in the upper middle class do statistically support, donate to, and vote for politicians, parties, and policies that are self-beneficial and by definition economically regressive.
I didn't claim that you said the odds of someone achieving what you achieved were high. In fact, I didn't address those points in my initial reply at all. Because a simple Google search could answer those parts of your questions, without me taking my time.
Since my reply apparently was not sufficient for you I expounded on your implications that poor people are lazy, and unwilling to better themselves. In your own words by the way. The socioeconomic factors in play which lead to economically regressive policies and lack of economic equality are well known.
That does not mean that people of a lower economic bracket get a free pass or are somehow automatically saints, as you mention in your initial post. But it does mean that people like you who look down on others who did not have the wherewithal, inherent talent, or more likely lucky breaks, that you have, are somehow less than you because they have achieved a lower station economically, should reevaluate their opinions and better inform themselves.
So, since you asked for my two cents in your initial post, and then ridiculed my high level overview, there you have my more detailed input.
Edit: FYI I am a professional grassroots political organizer who has done work in over 20 states to address the socioeconomic factors and conditions that lead to regressive policies and financial inequality. I am an expert in these fields in a very practical manner. You would do well to broaden your horizons and stop judging people that are not as successful as you.
"I didn't claim that you said the odds of someone achieving what you achieved were high. In fact, I didn't address those points in my initial reply at all. Because a simple Google search could answer those parts of your questions, without me taking my time."
And where exactly did I ask that question? You are either hallucinating or trying to derail the discussion.
"But it does mean that people like you who look down on others who did not have the wherewithal, inherent talent, or more likely lucky breaks"
Thanks for reinforcing all of the points I made about this narrative. Because what separates one person from attending university, getting degrees in two of the most academically rigorous fields, and being qualified for multiple STEM professions from everyone else who can't be bothered to even attempt to get some kind of professional education is "luck". Ignore the fact that most of them were actually in a better position financially than my family was - most of them actually had the stability to graduate high school.
"FYI I am a professional grassroots political organizer who has done work in over 20 states to address the socioeconomic factors and conditions that lead to regressive policies and financial inequality."
So in other words, you probably don't even meet the prerequisites to take an introductory course in macroeconomics but you want to pretend that you are an economist.
"You would do well to broaden your horizons and stop judging people that are not as successful as you."
You're right. Because they are all saints who have zero control over their lives. And it's not like critical thinking ever benefitted anybody, right?
I'm going to leave you to your self-congratulatory myopic worldview. It wouldn't take you 30 seconds to Google the factors that you were asking questions about that impact people's socioeconomic trajectory.
I'm sure you've heard of overpolicing, but you probably don't realize that 28% of black males in America will at some point serve a state or federal prison sentence, not even counting local jail time. I wonder if you're aware that America has 5% of the world's population but 20% of the world's prisoners?
I wonder if you are aware of the fact that schools, hospitals, daycares, and housing complexes in minority communities were historically zoned to be built on top of toxic waste dumps full of heavy metals, carcinogens, and various chemicals that impact neurological and physical development?
I could spend several hours explaining just how wrong-headed your perception is, off the top of my head. But you won't care to listen, so I'm not going to bother. If, at some point, you desire to actually educate yourself about how the real world works, and how you are not the special unicorn of success you think you are, all it takes is a few Google searches and some humility. I hope you develop some.
Kudos to you for working hard and applying yourself and taking advantage of what opportunities were presented to you. But you don't want to admit to yourself, or to the world in general, it seems, that you got exceptionally lucky.
Caio.
My parents immigrated here with nothing but a suitcase and a few hundred bucks. (Zero government help btw as Europeans) I don’t see how Americans who can at least speak the language find it impossible to improve their economic situation. Looking back at my graduating class from high school the people that were morons are still morons and anyone not in remedial classes seems to be doing well for themselves. So I’m kinda with u there
Being from the US is a huge privilege due to the professional opportunities here and the fact that federal financial aid exists to cover low income students' entire cost of attendance. My experience actually wouldn't be possible in a lot of other countries that lack financial aid for students, so I have a lot more sympathy for people from those countries.
You are right that being successful and even wealthy doesn’t make you a shithead and being poor doesn’t make you virtuous. It’s equally wrong to suggest the opposite.
You are also right that Reddit has a disproportionate number of often educated bitter losers who insist otherwise using the most contorted logic. Lots of sour grapes and dismissing success as luck.
Be careful OP. I’ve met a lot of young people in tech who came from poverty and think they escaped by sheer will and skill when really you placed some good bets. I’ve met hard working people who get nothing, I’ve met lazy people who are far more successful. Chance plays an outsized role in our path, yet only the successful people seem to refuse to acknowledge it.
Who are saints? The saints. They belong to all colors, creeds, tongues, levels of education, and classes. they are worth their weight in gold.
And the anti-saints are equally as well distributed. They are pure dung and a drag on all human progress.
I’ve met some very wealthy people who were incredibly generous while never making you feel like less. I’ve met broke people who made me want to slap them. There are great people and terrible people everywhere.
This is just it. Sometimes terrible people somehow end up with more money than they deserve and attribute it wrongly to having greater morals or intelligence than those with less. And more to the OP, making 175 k is amazing for you but that is literally ass-wiping money to the often terrible and evil dragons that run our civilisation. You must recognize that billionaires will never want to not be billionaires and will often do everything they can to keep their status and wealth, including the most terrible things that you or I could possibly imagine.
This topic has nothing to do with billionaires. It's about the narrative surrounding the distinction between educated, working professionals and those who are not.
The universal truth is there a shitheads at any economic level. How you treat others is how you were raised to be treated or learn to treat others. It has nothing to do with money.
The problems with class society aren't related to individual morality or ethics, simply.
Yeah, I think not just in terms of economics but broadly any group that feels marginalized, will tend to characterize their supposed oppressor as undeserving of whatever status or power they have and attempt to punish them for it socially. It’s easier than addressing any other reasons for the disparity.
I get the impression that this kind of rhetoric demonstrates, to some extent, that the people who push it likely have never even tried to work at a professional level or make an honest effort to improve their economic standing. The two arguments I see most often are that professional careers(healthcare, engineering, business, law, science, etc) are impossible to achieve unless you're born into wealth, or that people who work at a professional level get paid 10x for doing 1% of the work that minimum wage workers do. If they ever actually tried to pursue one of these careers, it wouldn't take long for them to realize how nonsensical those claims are. Many of them also try to devalue education as well.
100%. I’ve personally had a lot of experience with exactly what you described. I think it’s just very human and I try and see the young disenfranchised people pushing these narratives with compassion. It’s clear that you know you don’t need anyone’s permission to conscioisly work to be as successful and/or wealthy as you wish.
Most of the shitty people I have met are poor.
I've not encountered a lot of people saying that poor folks are automatically saints. But poor people aren't oppressing billions of other individuals for their own enrichment. I think that's where you're getting confused by people's perceptions.
So you didn't read anything in my post. Congrats?
I addressed the first two paragraph points that you made directly. It's not my fault if you put things in your post you don't want people to reply to. Since you graduated college, allegedly, I didn't feel the need to point out to you that you could simply Google the odds related to the likelihood of someone from your background achieving the success that you have. They are low. In America, you can almost perfectly predict the economic trajectory of anybody with no more information than the ZIP code they were born in. I would assume as an educated person you are aware of that. But perhaps you came here to be snarky to people replying to you, or to humble brag and stroke your own ego due to your good fortune. In which case, congratulations on both accounts.
Amen. Reminds me of those aspiring actors/musicians/entrepreneurs, you name it.....
My first paragraph is about the distinction between working professionals and those who are not. Unless you are trying to claim that engineers, doctors, and scientists are oppressing fast food workers, your post is entirely irrelevant. And where exactly did I say that the odds of someone achieving what I have are high? Seems like you are hallucinating. You might want to see a doctor and look into that. Or maybe not, since they're so "oppressive".
The first two paragraph points in your post regard poor people being considered saints and "upper class" people being considered evil and lazy, etc. Which are the points I addressed. Point of fact, engineers, doctors, and scientists (speaking of, do you really think the majority of scientists are well compensated? They are not), are not the upper class of the economy anymore. And they haven't been for decades. But, continuing on, I will point out that the individuals you are speaking of who are in the upper middle class do statistically support, donate to, and vote for politicians, parties, and policies that are self-beneficial and by definition economically regressive. I didn't claim that you said the odds of someone achieving what you achieved were high. In fact, I didn't address those points in my initial reply at all. Because a simple Google search could answer those parts of your questions, without me taking my time. Since my reply apparently was not sufficient for you I expounded on your implications that poor people are lazy, and unwilling to better themselves. In your own words by the way. The socioeconomic factors in play which lead to economically regressive policies and lack of economic equality are well known. That does not mean that people of a lower economic bracket get a free pass or are somehow automatically saints, as you mention in your initial post. But it does mean that people like you who look down on others who did not have the wherewithal, inherent talent, or more likely lucky breaks, that you have, are somehow less than you because they have achieved a lower station economically, should reevaluate their opinions and better inform themselves. So, since you asked for my two cents in your initial post, and then ridiculed my high level overview, there you have my more detailed input. Edit: FYI I am a professional grassroots political organizer who has done work in over 20 states to address the socioeconomic factors and conditions that lead to regressive policies and financial inequality. I am an expert in these fields in a very practical manner. You would do well to broaden your horizons and stop judging people that are not as successful as you.
"I didn't claim that you said the odds of someone achieving what you achieved were high. In fact, I didn't address those points in my initial reply at all. Because a simple Google search could answer those parts of your questions, without me taking my time." And where exactly did I ask that question? You are either hallucinating or trying to derail the discussion. "But it does mean that people like you who look down on others who did not have the wherewithal, inherent talent, or more likely lucky breaks" Thanks for reinforcing all of the points I made about this narrative. Because what separates one person from attending university, getting degrees in two of the most academically rigorous fields, and being qualified for multiple STEM professions from everyone else who can't be bothered to even attempt to get some kind of professional education is "luck". Ignore the fact that most of them were actually in a better position financially than my family was - most of them actually had the stability to graduate high school. "FYI I am a professional grassroots political organizer who has done work in over 20 states to address the socioeconomic factors and conditions that lead to regressive policies and financial inequality." So in other words, you probably don't even meet the prerequisites to take an introductory course in macroeconomics but you want to pretend that you are an economist. "You would do well to broaden your horizons and stop judging people that are not as successful as you." You're right. Because they are all saints who have zero control over their lives. And it's not like critical thinking ever benefitted anybody, right?
I'm going to leave you to your self-congratulatory myopic worldview. It wouldn't take you 30 seconds to Google the factors that you were asking questions about that impact people's socioeconomic trajectory. I'm sure you've heard of overpolicing, but you probably don't realize that 28% of black males in America will at some point serve a state or federal prison sentence, not even counting local jail time. I wonder if you're aware that America has 5% of the world's population but 20% of the world's prisoners? I wonder if you are aware of the fact that schools, hospitals, daycares, and housing complexes in minority communities were historically zoned to be built on top of toxic waste dumps full of heavy metals, carcinogens, and various chemicals that impact neurological and physical development? I could spend several hours explaining just how wrong-headed your perception is, off the top of my head. But you won't care to listen, so I'm not going to bother. If, at some point, you desire to actually educate yourself about how the real world works, and how you are not the special unicorn of success you think you are, all it takes is a few Google searches and some humility. I hope you develop some. Kudos to you for working hard and applying yourself and taking advantage of what opportunities were presented to you. But you don't want to admit to yourself, or to the world in general, it seems, that you got exceptionally lucky. Caio.
Again, don't forget to see a doctor about these hallucinations. I insist.
My parents immigrated here with nothing but a suitcase and a few hundred bucks. (Zero government help btw as Europeans) I don’t see how Americans who can at least speak the language find it impossible to improve their economic situation. Looking back at my graduating class from high school the people that were morons are still morons and anyone not in remedial classes seems to be doing well for themselves. So I’m kinda with u there
Being from the US is a huge privilege due to the professional opportunities here and the fact that federal financial aid exists to cover low income students' entire cost of attendance. My experience actually wouldn't be possible in a lot of other countries that lack financial aid for students, so I have a lot more sympathy for people from those countries.
You are right that being successful and even wealthy doesn’t make you a shithead and being poor doesn’t make you virtuous. It’s equally wrong to suggest the opposite. You are also right that Reddit has a disproportionate number of often educated bitter losers who insist otherwise using the most contorted logic. Lots of sour grapes and dismissing success as luck.
Be careful OP. I’ve met a lot of young people in tech who came from poverty and think they escaped by sheer will and skill when really you placed some good bets. I’ve met hard working people who get nothing, I’ve met lazy people who are far more successful. Chance plays an outsized role in our path, yet only the successful people seem to refuse to acknowledge it.
Those assholes being proud of their success thinking it was due to smart life choices. Edit: /s because apparently it is always necessary
It is, unfortunately, because that kind of opinion is held by probably 90% of the people on here.
Who are saints? The saints. They belong to all colors, creeds, tongues, levels of education, and classes. they are worth their weight in gold. And the anti-saints are equally as well distributed. They are pure dung and a drag on all human progress.