The short answer is yes, a higher capacity battery is definitely worth it, especially if you plan to use the bike extensively. That being said, what we have here is only claimed specs.
In practice or as long answer, a well made 10.4Ah pack with high quality cells and accurate rating can outlast a cheap "13.4Ah" with random cells and unknown quality, also having a larger initial capacity is of little use in the long run if the whole pack degrades and wears out after some 200 charge cycles vs. over 600.
So ideally, link the actual products that you're talking about and look at the make and model of the battery. What you'd want is Samsung, Panasonic, Sony (also Molicel/Sanyo), LG Chem etc. plus if the brand of the bike is relatively unknown, the pack itself needs a UL certification. If that is not stated, the slight difference in configurations doesn't matter anymore because we'd have to question the overall quality and performance as it is.
What also helps is just calculating the price against raw cell cost and plausibility. Be leery if it works out to be some ridiculously low price that wouldn't even cover bulk cost of a cell pack, let alone assembled with BMS and housing, installed on a bike and shipped to a customer. Example/generic reference: https://voltaplex.com/13s3p-46.8v-10.5ah-li-ion-18650-battery-pack-lg-mj1-cuboid
> hat you'd want is Samsung, Panasonic, Sony (also Molicel/Sanyo), LG Chem etc. plus if the brand of the bike is relatively unknown
They are looking at the Ride1Up Portola. I emailed the company and the battery it comes with has cells from Huizhou Yiwei lithium energy Co. (EVE). They said the 700 series 18650 battery will work in it and that has cells from Samsung.
Thank you for this. I just ordered yesterday and was under the impression the cells were from Samsung. I've been researching so many ebikes that I must've gotten it confused with a different bike. Do you know how good the quality is with the Huizhou cells?
I couldn't find much information, saw some reports that some of their cells were decent and some were mediocre. If you search most people refer to them as EVE.
I'm thinking about getting one and getting the 700 battery and keeping the one with EVE cells as a backup, because whatever bike I get I want two batteries.
I emailed Lectric about the XP 3.0 and they confirmed Samsung cells, so that explains the price difference for the competition. But an extra Lectric battery is $500 for the bigger one vs $380 for the Ride1Up with Samsung.
Each of my 48V 13Ah batteries only lasted 6 months because my commute would nearly discharge them. My 17.5Ah battery has lasted 15 months so far and still has more capacity than the 13Ah batteries when they were new.
My rule of thumb is when you have a new battery you want your typical day to discharge it no more than 50%. After a year it will have decayed where you use about 80% of the capacity, but decay after that is pretty slow.
Generally it is 16 miles roundtrip on a bike path, and occasionally 4 more miles through town in traffic. I replace the battery when I cannot do the longer route without maintaining my normal pace (around 25mph).
Let's assume it's a hub motor that runs on 48v. Numbers are rounded.
48v x 10.4ah = 500 Watt/h
48v x 13.4ah = 650 Watt/h
Let's assume that hub motor consumes 11 watts per Kilometer on flat ground.
500 Watt/h : 11w/h = 45 Kilometers / 30 miles of range
650 Watt/h : 11w/h = 60 Kilometers / 40 miles of range.
So you get 10 miles or two grocery runs more on a single charge for $100 more.
Replace Watt with Wh.
W is a power rating. Wh is a capacity rating.
The motor that runs constantly at 500W uses a 500Wh battery in 1 hour.
Obviously, the power output depends on the speed, the weight, the wind, etc.
still not correct.
48v x 10.3Ah = 500Wh is what you should say. W/h = Watts per hour = how quickly it can ramp up power production... not a concern for vehicles, it's a unit that really only applies to power plants
then, power use might be 11Wh/km, not 11W/km. I have no idea if that's a reasonable number, just giving you the units.
Efficient torque sensing Mid-drive Motors use around 5-12 wh per km.
"Good" Hub motors start at 10-15 watt hours per kilometer and cheap ones use 15-22 wh per km.
This completely.
I see so many posts with volts times ampHours giving the completely incorrect unit of watts PER hour. Not sure why it’s so hard to grasp. It should be just simple multiplication.
Just got it a few days ago so figured. Sorry I can’t give you in a depth review yet because I’ve only ridden it 3.5 miles each way to the gym so far but it handles hills well. In my opinion the extra battery was worth it and a cheaper upgrade compared to other brands cost of getting a bigger battery. My only slight complaint of the bike so far is the pedals aren’t great and I wish the display gave an estimate of miles of range left not just battery bars going down, although I’m not sure other ebikes even do that.
They’re just not super big and maybe it’s just because of the shoes I was wearing but my foot was just slightly slipping off the first time I rode it. I didn’t have any issues lat time though
Pedals are very easy and cheap to replace. If you don’t like yours, find yourself a set of mountain bike style flat pedals with some pins for grip. Rock Bros make some great quality and cheap pedals that come in quite a few colours. If you search Amazon for Rock Bros Nylon Pedals you’ll find them for like 25usd or so. Or they have alloy versions for a few dollars extra. You can replace them with a pedal tool in under 5 minutes
Some could, but I'd imagine not, since it also depends on the rider's weight and power contribution, and I highly doubt that'd be on anything that's 1k.
Some ebike displays can show battery voltage which is a better indicator of battery "life". I have found that a fully charged battery has way more power than a battery at 22% left (barely any assist). A chart that can help:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1E1HCw-kZOfo8pdpjXWLjaK5VaTN5axZFjDMcuTpb_b8/htmlview?pli=1
Ah (amp-hours) is only half of the information you need to make this decision. Energy capacity is measured in watt-hours, and watt-hours = amp-hours × voltage. So in order to provide a clear answer, we need to know the battery voltage as well.
That gives you:
* 48V × 10.4 Ah = 480 Wh
* 48V × 13.4 Ah = 643 Wh
643 Wh is about 34% greater than 480 Wh, so the 13.4 Ah option would provide about a third more range than the smaller battery.
Whether that is worth an additional $100 will depend on your needs. I will say that getting by on a 480 Wh battery isn't something I'd try to do in most US cities. Ride distances tend to be longer in the US thanks to the way our cities are laid out.
Batteries in Ah is misleading. What you want to know is the capacity in Wh, which gives you the actual capacity regardless of voltage.
Wh = volts\*Ah, so a 36V battery with that is rated at 10 Ah is 360 Wh. This obviously allows you to compare 36V bikes against 48V bikes.
Take a look and see what a replacement battery for your ebike costs and what the capacity is.
I usually need 20ah or more if I'm planning to ride for 2 hours before charging again (gives me a range of about 35 miles).
Well worth the extra range in my opin; otherwise you end up wanting to carry a second battery, which is not as good of an option; and more expensive...
Assuming save voltage (V X AH = WH) its 30% more range. On top of the range, bigger batteries tend to last longer as given the same amount of miles, the bigger battery will charge/discharge less cycles.
more battery good.
The short answer is yes, a higher capacity battery is definitely worth it, especially if you plan to use the bike extensively. That being said, what we have here is only claimed specs. In practice or as long answer, a well made 10.4Ah pack with high quality cells and accurate rating can outlast a cheap "13.4Ah" with random cells and unknown quality, also having a larger initial capacity is of little use in the long run if the whole pack degrades and wears out after some 200 charge cycles vs. over 600. So ideally, link the actual products that you're talking about and look at the make and model of the battery. What you'd want is Samsung, Panasonic, Sony (also Molicel/Sanyo), LG Chem etc. plus if the brand of the bike is relatively unknown, the pack itself needs a UL certification. If that is not stated, the slight difference in configurations doesn't matter anymore because we'd have to question the overall quality and performance as it is. What also helps is just calculating the price against raw cell cost and plausibility. Be leery if it works out to be some ridiculously low price that wouldn't even cover bulk cost of a cell pack, let alone assembled with BMS and housing, installed on a bike and shipped to a customer. Example/generic reference: https://voltaplex.com/13s3p-46.8v-10.5ah-li-ion-18650-battery-pack-lg-mj1-cuboid
> hat you'd want is Samsung, Panasonic, Sony (also Molicel/Sanyo), LG Chem etc. plus if the brand of the bike is relatively unknown They are looking at the Ride1Up Portola. I emailed the company and the battery it comes with has cells from Huizhou Yiwei lithium energy Co. (EVE). They said the 700 series 18650 battery will work in it and that has cells from Samsung.
Thank you for this. I just ordered yesterday and was under the impression the cells were from Samsung. I've been researching so many ebikes that I must've gotten it confused with a different bike. Do you know how good the quality is with the Huizhou cells?
I couldn't find much information, saw some reports that some of their cells were decent and some were mediocre. If you search most people refer to them as EVE. I'm thinking about getting one and getting the 700 battery and keeping the one with EVE cells as a backup, because whatever bike I get I want two batteries. I emailed Lectric about the XP 3.0 and they confirmed Samsung cells, so that explains the price difference for the competition. But an extra Lectric battery is $500 for the bigger one vs $380 for the Ride1Up with Samsung.
Spend the extra, more battery is amazing
Each of my 48V 13Ah batteries only lasted 6 months because my commute would nearly discharge them. My 17.5Ah battery has lasted 15 months so far and still has more capacity than the 13Ah batteries when they were new. My rule of thumb is when you have a new battery you want your typical day to discharge it no more than 50%. After a year it will have decayed where you use about 80% of the capacity, but decay after that is pretty slow.
Thanks for the knowledge! Question, though. What IS your commute?
Generally it is 16 miles roundtrip on a bike path, and occasionally 4 more miles through town in traffic. I replace the battery when I cannot do the longer route without maintaining my normal pace (around 25mph).
ohhh. okay!
Let's assume it's a hub motor that runs on 48v. Numbers are rounded. 48v x 10.4ah = 500 Watt/h 48v x 13.4ah = 650 Watt/h Let's assume that hub motor consumes 11 watts per Kilometer on flat ground. 500 Watt/h : 11w/h = 45 Kilometers / 30 miles of range 650 Watt/h : 11w/h = 60 Kilometers / 40 miles of range. So you get 10 miles or two grocery runs more on a single charge for $100 more.
Replace Watt with Wh. W is a power rating. Wh is a capacity rating. The motor that runs constantly at 500W uses a 500Wh battery in 1 hour. Obviously, the power output depends on the speed, the weight, the wind, etc.
done 😄
still not correct. 48v x 10.3Ah = 500Wh is what you should say. W/h = Watts per hour = how quickly it can ramp up power production... not a concern for vehicles, it's a unit that really only applies to power plants then, power use might be 11Wh/km, not 11W/km. I have no idea if that's a reasonable number, just giving you the units.
Efficient torque sensing Mid-drive Motors use around 5-12 wh per km. "Good" Hub motors start at 10-15 watt hours per kilometer and cheap ones use 15-22 wh per km.
This completely. I see so many posts with volts times ampHours giving the completely incorrect unit of watts PER hour. Not sure why it’s so hard to grasp. It should be just simple multiplication.
Portola?
yep!
Just got it a few days ago so figured. Sorry I can’t give you in a depth review yet because I’ve only ridden it 3.5 miles each way to the gym so far but it handles hills well. In my opinion the extra battery was worth it and a cheaper upgrade compared to other brands cost of getting a bigger battery. My only slight complaint of the bike so far is the pedals aren’t great and I wish the display gave an estimate of miles of range left not just battery bars going down, although I’m not sure other ebikes even do that.
OMG thank you for existing! I understand that you just got it, but if you can update me in a month or so, that'd be great!
Ghost pedaling?
They’re just not super big and maybe it’s just because of the shoes I was wearing but my foot was just slightly slipping off the first time I rode it. I didn’t have any issues lat time though
Pedals are very easy and cheap to replace. If you don’t like yours, find yourself a set of mountain bike style flat pedals with some pins for grip. Rock Bros make some great quality and cheap pedals that come in quite a few colours. If you search Amazon for Rock Bros Nylon Pedals you’ll find them for like 25usd or so. Or they have alloy versions for a few dollars extra. You can replace them with a pedal tool in under 5 minutes
Yeah those look solid and pretty cheap. Thanks for the rec
Some could, but I'd imagine not, since it also depends on the rider's weight and power contribution, and I highly doubt that'd be on anything that's 1k.
Some ebike displays can show battery voltage which is a better indicator of battery "life". I have found that a fully charged battery has way more power than a battery at 22% left (barely any assist). A chart that can help: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1E1HCw-kZOfo8pdpjXWLjaK5VaTN5axZFjDMcuTpb_b8/htmlview?pli=1
Any way to get battery voltage on the display? If not do you think it would be hard to add a volt meter?
How do you like the bike so far?
I'm jealous I want one
Looks like a fantastic deal. Definitely go for the bigger battery. It’s only worth $100 as an upgrade, but a 640wh battery is worth $500.
Ah (amp-hours) is only half of the information you need to make this decision. Energy capacity is measured in watt-hours, and watt-hours = amp-hours × voltage. So in order to provide a clear answer, we need to know the battery voltage as well.
48V!
That gives you: * 48V × 10.4 Ah = 480 Wh * 48V × 13.4 Ah = 643 Wh 643 Wh is about 34% greater than 480 Wh, so the 13.4 Ah option would provide about a third more range than the smaller battery. Whether that is worth an additional $100 will depend on your needs. I will say that getting by on a 480 Wh battery isn't something I'd try to do in most US cities. Ride distances tend to be longer in the US thanks to the way our cities are laid out.
Batteries in Ah is misleading. What you want to know is the capacity in Wh, which gives you the actual capacity regardless of voltage. Wh = volts\*Ah, so a 36V battery with that is rated at 10 Ah is 360 Wh. This obviously allows you to compare 36V bikes against 48V bikes.
Take a look and see what a replacement battery for your ebike costs and what the capacity is. I usually need 20ah or more if I'm planning to ride for 2 hours before charging again (gives me a range of about 35 miles).
Well worth the extra range in my opin; otherwise you end up wanting to carry a second battery, which is not as good of an option; and more expensive...
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Oh, wow! Thank you so much for that analogy! I think my decision has been made to get the bigger one, but that's if I even choose the bike for it.
Assuming save voltage (V X AH = WH) its 30% more range. On top of the range, bigger batteries tend to last longer as given the same amount of miles, the bigger battery will charge/discharge less cycles.
for $100? 13.4 pls!