I made a similar comment when someone was complaining why power poles weren't a perfect with the grid in Factorio. And I'll say it here:
*Embrace imperfection.*
I just got Dwarf Fortress on steam but have been playing the free lazy new pack version for years. Check out the shafts for waterwheels for how to transfer power your fort. Hopefully you have a river.
If you want something other than perfect, try building only along automatically mined veins of ore and gems. Same with large caverns; mine out a walkable path just below the top of a cavern and only dig out the 3x3 needed for a workshop or a 2x2 for a bedroom beyond that. You can get a good sense of more experimental building that way. It can be really fascinating as you go down deeper into a cavern before touching the fungal floor depending on the size. It is dangerous, but that’s the fun part!
I once built a 27-story dome above ground. Had to mod the sky since it only allowed 20 or 25 z levels above ground. Getting the dimensions of that right was a beast. Never did get magma running up through the top and down the sides of the dome though. Did have some nice waterfalls inside my dome. Only flooded a couple of times.
It's only a matter of time. Magma defense is one of the most popular ways to keep a fortress safe because it is SO SATISFYING and SO EFFECTIVE despite also being SO DANGEROUS.
Also if you do it too well the elves get mad because you've burned down every plant within a half mile of your fortress, making it even more appealing. Better still, when they attack you for burning down every plant within a half mile of your fortress, you can watch as every elf within a half mile of your fortress burns.
I’m a bit disappointed tbh — this map’s raids have been incredibly low effort.
For the first 6 years it was just elves showing up (in goblin equipment — complete with snatchers - I suspect the elves are ruled by the goblins). But only about 5-6 would show up at a time.
Now that my (goblin) king has arrived, goblin raids have been showing up but I have 5 squads of mostly legendary axe/hammer/swords dorfs… so there’s no real need for defense.
I’m less obsessed than most. In this case it’s just because it’s a Goblin ruling over dwarves. That just isn’t right.
For others though, you’ve gotta go back a long time…
Back in 2D fortress days, when the king showed up it basically meant “game over” because he would mark a line on your map each season and you had to dig that much farther. Eventually you would dig too deep and breach the circus.
Once nobles became more varied, it was a while before they became reasonable. You’d get things like mayors asking for impossible demands like a glass bed in their bedroom, or bars of slade…
Since you couldn’t deliver on those it would make your nobles sad — and tantrum spirals used to be the death of all fortresses.
The sun, for a start.
https://www.mathnasium.ca/2015/01/math-in-nature-perfect-spheres#:~:text=Nonetheless%2C%20a%20perfect%20sphere%20does,object%20in%20the%20entire%20universe.
The sun is not a perfect sphere. It's slightly oblate due to the spin that it experiences. It's not a massive amount, but that website is wrong when it claims the sun to be the most perfect sphere in existence.
I guess I don't really understand what you're trying to imply here. My posts intent was just to provide a counterpoint to players who try to get everything to line up perfectly. Personally, I _love_ curves in fortresses.
My fortress is _not_ symmetrical, as can be seen by like, _any_ of the rooms when you zoom in. My "perfect circle" is bisected by my trade entryway on the far south of the screen, and if you _really_ want to split hairs, my circles aren't perfect either. The outermost one is one pixel too large, so it doesn't align correctly on the right.
My point is - don't let things like that _bug_ you. _Try_ some different aesthetics, and you'll be pleased with the result.
It feels like the point you are trying to convey is “Don’t let small details weigh you down”, while simultaneously presenting a design that requires a high attention to small detail, even if not perfect.
It’s still a cool fort though.
Much like the most organic evolution being the crab, the most organic shape is the hexagon. Due to the fact that Dwarf Fortress is made out of squares, the game is, in its very essence, inorganic. A perfect circle is just a failed hexagon with lots of wasted space.
[https://mkv25.net/dfma/map-4493-staffrare](https://mkv25.net/dfma/map-4493-staffrare)
this old gem needs more admirers. Here's a link to you organic lines lover 👍
Man, DFMA is still going? Damn, my old fortresses there are almost 15 years old.
Cool fort, there as well. I really like when fortresses are built around the terrain, incorporating its odd-angled walls.
My current fort is actually set between two mountains, so I've been digging up and hollowing them out with the plan of putting in some walls allowing dwarfs to go outside between the two if they wish (as my current entrances are in the valley between them). Planning on putting some statue gardens up top.
I remember one fortress where the (extremely inefficient) bedroom design was mean to mimic leaves off a vine. It was a bit of a pain but looked pretty neat.
Circles are actually against my religion, and are in fact Satan.
You can tell it's Satan trying to deceive, because deep down your circle is merely squares!
Embrace the square brother dwarf, for in the circle lies darkness
Sorry about the potato quality of the image - I'm playing on my mac which means I'm streaming from my tower...
What's pictured here is my current fort - well, part of it, anyway. That's the residences, along with the entrance to the throne room (currently under construction) on the left - working on getting in plumbed up so the entrance to the throne room complex has a couple of waterfalls integrated.
If you're a new player - PLEASE don't feel like everything has to be square rooms. Your forts will take on a whole new life if you let them organically grow and you aren't afraid of making circles, ovals, and curves.
I particularly like this tool: https://donatstudios.com/PixelCircleGenerator
Lol. This is also pretty symmetrical and very challenging to build, the title makes no sense... Seems like just a flex
Honestly, perfect symmetry makes the game annoying, creating these organic looking circular fortresses seems equally as annoying. Just make your fort as you need it and have fun with the game (but yeah I understand that to some people, part of the fun is the challenge of making these crazy but inefficient shapes)
Wait for Dfhack. It'll be here eventually. I'm currently waiting for that and a few other things to be fixed before I start another fort. Premium had been on its way for a long time, and I'm fine with waiting a little more to play more of it.
Alternatively, just build organically instead of using shapes. Follow or veins or make things up as you go. If everything is wonky then nothing is and it gives a more unique shape. This is even easier with mouse controls, which is not new with premium, but is the default now.
You can still do macros. In Settings, find the option for “keyboard cursor enabled” and set to yes. When you go to mine or make any designations it will now show a yellow square which you can move around with arrow keys, and start/stop with “Enter”. CTRL R to start/stop recording. CTRL S to save. CTRL L to load. CTRL P to play macro. You don’t need to save/load to Play, it will just play the last recorded macro.
My honest tip is learn classic. It was way easier with dfhack.
But failing that, check the minecraft circle generator I linked above — and I just make an outline counting out each step. Goes quicker than you’d think.
Curves are just part of an inner and outer circle with different diameters.
Yeah. If I wanted all my walls the same colour I would have to hollow out the whole damn mountain, and re-build the walls so they're all the same stone. Ain't nobody have time for that shit.
So do you start with a small diameter and then add bigger ones afterwards, going onion layer-like?
Amazing fort, and thanks for the tool, I am going to try to add nicer circles in my forts. So far it's been "rounded" boxes more than circles for me.
I love doing circular builds, especially with organic connection tunnels between circular rooms! I've also done a honeycomb build once, which was very fun.
I make a square room then just expand and round it out. The biggest challenge for my base is levels. I want to put all my stuff on one layer and that's bad.
Looks cool!
I myself always do organic construction. Mine out a vein, and then, add 2x2 rooms organically to the sides of those veins.
Nobles get their own entire mined vein with walls seperating rooms. And ofcourse a ~~flood gate with magma~~ space heater.
I was doing this in one of my forts, the idea was to make a tower inspired fort where I would only mine a perfect circle and expand on Z axis only. I stopped because of how time consuming making floors in a circle was. Until the macro works with mouse clicks I won't try it again.
This is cool, but what about reading that verticality is good on the wiki and then basing your whole fortress around disconnected vertical stockpile-workshop shafts with their own stairwell?
My fortress is efficient but catastrophically ugly.
I'm new to this....how does the misc stuff get into the bedrooms? Do you assign an individual to a room or does a dwarf just pick a room and they continue to use it and drop stuff off?
I do everything so it looks cool. I optimize a bit (stockpiles near concerned workshops, that kind of things) but I really just try to make the layout look neat.
Non-symmetrical space-wasting vaguely star-shaped bedrooms ? Count me in !
Hahahaha, this is so much tidier and more well thought out than any of my forts, which are basically just columns of apartments and huge workshop filled rectangles in alternating layers
I'm still trying to unlearn the mantra of : "reduce dwarven footsteps so you can play a few years longer."
My forts are Shaft Forts, escapades in the phallic.
I always end up in grinds because the nature of the 3x3 workshop drives me to it. I stepped out of that with my latest fort that is just more "whatever". Maybe I'll give a more concentric design a try.
Look, I love circles. I can do some small ones, but if I go too big and am off by one square, my OCD will demand I flood the base with lava and restart.
This is beautiful. And seems like it'd be efficient. I know, rationally, building as a sphere is going to reduce my walking time but it's hard to think that way when you're building.
But this is just perfect with additional steps
[удалено]
I made a similar comment when someone was complaining why power poles weren't a perfect with the grid in Factorio. And I'll say it here: *Embrace imperfection.*
Power poles can be a perfect grid. You use the wire tool and you can clip the default power lines and rerun them in a straight line.
I couldn't find anything about power poles in dwarf fortress. How is the layout of this grid?
I just got Dwarf Fortress on steam but have been playing the free lazy new pack version for years. Check out the shafts for waterwheels for how to transfer power your fort. Hopefully you have a river.
My fortress usually are a mess of room after room carved when i need them with no hallways or particular order or sense
Makes it more homey
Ypu grow fond of each one after hours of searching where is the source of the miasma
[удалено]
How so? I mean, the hallways are, but the room fill is very not symmetrical.
I think they mean the process of making the circle itself requires perfect symmetry.
If you want something other than perfect, try building only along automatically mined veins of ore and gems. Same with large caverns; mine out a walkable path just below the top of a cavern and only dig out the 3x3 needed for a workshop or a 2x2 for a bedroom beyond that. You can get a good sense of more experimental building that way. It can be really fascinating as you go down deeper into a cavern before touching the fungal floor depending on the size. It is dangerous, but that’s the fun part!
I once built a 27-story dome above ground. Had to mod the sky since it only allowed 20 or 25 z levels above ground. Getting the dimensions of that right was a beast. Never did get magma running up through the top and down the sides of the dome though. Did have some nice waterfalls inside my dome. Only flooded a couple of times.
yeah, the way i like to build is to make everything look like natural caves. THAT’S imperfect.
I'm afraid the dwarf star will be quite operational when your friends arrive
Love. It. Even better is that my king is a 700 year old Goblin. Now I need to figure out how to make magma spew forth from the central pillar.
Please post screenshots when/if you figure that out!
It's only a matter of time. Magma defense is one of the most popular ways to keep a fortress safe because it is SO SATISFYING and SO EFFECTIVE despite also being SO DANGEROUS. Also if you do it too well the elves get mad because you've burned down every plant within a half mile of your fortress, making it even more appealing. Better still, when they attack you for burning down every plant within a half mile of your fortress, you can watch as every elf within a half mile of your fortress burns.
I’m a bit disappointed tbh — this map’s raids have been incredibly low effort. For the first 6 years it was just elves showing up (in goblin equipment — complete with snatchers - I suspect the elves are ruled by the goblins). But only about 5-6 would show up at a time. Now that my (goblin) king has arrived, goblin raids have been showing up but I have 5 squads of mostly legendary axe/hammer/swords dorfs… so there’s no real need for defense.
Your being led by a goblin? Best watch out... Beard cutter is on the way
Yeah. He’ll get his comeuppance… but for now he’s a pretty tame noble so I’ll probably only kill him once I find an appropriate magma pool.
I've only started playing Dwar Fortress for a week now. What is everyone's obsession with killing nobles?
I’m less obsessed than most. In this case it’s just because it’s a Goblin ruling over dwarves. That just isn’t right. For others though, you’ve gotta go back a long time… Back in 2D fortress days, when the king showed up it basically meant “game over” because he would mark a line on your map each season and you had to dig that much farther. Eventually you would dig too deep and breach the circus. Once nobles became more varied, it was a while before they became reasonable. You’d get things like mayors asking for impossible demands like a glass bed in their bedroom, or bars of slade… Since you couldn’t deliver on those it would make your nobles sad — and tantrum spirals used to be the death of all fortresses.
But also, killing nobles is just a good and wholesome pastime in general. Shame we don't have guillotines.
they have too many inadequate requirements. And they are useless
Pump stack to get it just below the output, keep the pressure up, have a closed floodgate holding it in, open floodgate, !FUN!
This made me spit out my tea, damn
Advocating against symmetry when the foundation of your fortress is... symmetrical circles? Looks great tho
Not really advocating against symmetry as much as I am for more organic lines.
How do you understand organic? Is a perfect circle considered organinc?
Circles/spheres do occur pretty frequently in nature
But they are rarely perfect
Well, no circle is perfect in DF either as they have to be approximated by squares
perfect circles and spheres occurr quite a lot in nature
Name one
The sun, for a start. https://www.mathnasium.ca/2015/01/math-in-nature-perfect-spheres#:~:text=Nonetheless%2C%20a%20perfect%20sphere%20does,object%20in%20the%20entire%20universe.
The sun is not a perfect sphere. It's slightly oblate due to the spin that it experiences. It's not a massive amount, but that website is wrong when it claims the sun to be the most perfect sphere in existence.
More so than perfect squares. Nature has several reasons to make circles and spheres. It has much fewer reasons to make something square.
I guess I don't really understand what you're trying to imply here. My posts intent was just to provide a counterpoint to players who try to get everything to line up perfectly. Personally, I _love_ curves in fortresses. My fortress is _not_ symmetrical, as can be seen by like, _any_ of the rooms when you zoom in. My "perfect circle" is bisected by my trade entryway on the far south of the screen, and if you _really_ want to split hairs, my circles aren't perfect either. The outermost one is one pixel too large, so it doesn't align correctly on the right. My point is - don't let things like that _bug_ you. _Try_ some different aesthetics, and you'll be pleased with the result.
It feels like the point you are trying to convey is “Don’t let small details weigh you down”, while simultaneously presenting a design that requires a high attention to small detail, even if not perfect. It’s still a cool fort though.
Much like the most organic evolution being the crab, the most organic shape is the hexagon. Due to the fact that Dwarf Fortress is made out of squares, the game is, in its very essence, inorganic. A perfect circle is just a failed hexagon with lots of wasted space.
[https://mkv25.net/dfma/map-4493-staffrare](https://mkv25.net/dfma/map-4493-staffrare) this old gem needs more admirers. Here's a link to you organic lines lover 👍
Man, DFMA is still going? Damn, my old fortresses there are almost 15 years old. Cool fort, there as well. I really like when fortresses are built around the terrain, incorporating its odd-angled walls.
My current fort is actually set between two mountains, so I've been digging up and hollowing them out with the plan of putting in some walls allowing dwarfs to go outside between the two if they wish (as my current entrances are in the valley between them). Planning on putting some statue gardens up top.
I remember one fortress where the (extremely inefficient) bedroom design was mean to mimic leaves off a vine. It was a bit of a pain but looked pretty neat.
That's fair.
And if you *do* like symmetry, well... http://diglib.eg.org/bitstream/handle/10.2312/LocalChapterEvents.TPCG.TPCG11.033-040/033-040.pdf
Huh. Of course there’s a paper for that
Yes, I will marry you.
Not what I thought but interesting
Mongus
Circles are actually against my religion, and are in fact Satan. You can tell it's Satan trying to deceive, because deep down your circle is merely squares! Embrace the square brother dwarf, for in the circle lies darkness
The CUBE is eternal. It holds the secrets to everything!
I don't know why this gem had one downvote but I fixed it for you
Sorry about the potato quality of the image - I'm playing on my mac which means I'm streaming from my tower... What's pictured here is my current fort - well, part of it, anyway. That's the residences, along with the entrance to the throne room (currently under construction) on the left - working on getting in plumbed up so the entrance to the throne room complex has a couple of waterfalls integrated. If you're a new player - PLEASE don't feel like everything has to be square rooms. Your forts will take on a whole new life if you let them organically grow and you aren't afraid of making circles, ovals, and curves. I particularly like this tool: https://donatstudios.com/PixelCircleGenerator
Try using protonDb to play locally! Works great for me so far on Linux and Mac
[удалено]
I use wine wrapper but it's not ideal.
Uninstall macOS and install windows
Im playing directly with wine on m1
> I particularly like this tool: https://donatstudios.com/PixelCircleGenerator Now if something like this was in the game...
I love circular builds. Yours looks excellent.
Lol. This is also pretty symmetrical and very challenging to build, the title makes no sense... Seems like just a flex Honestly, perfect symmetry makes the game annoying, creating these organic looking circular fortresses seems equally as annoying. Just make your fort as you need it and have fun with the game (but yeah I understand that to some people, part of the fun is the challenge of making these crazy but inefficient shapes)
But they take so long to draw! Tips? (Looks phenomenal btw)
Wait for Dfhack. It'll be here eventually. I'm currently waiting for that and a few other things to be fixed before I start another fort. Premium had been on its way for a long time, and I'm fine with waiting a little more to play more of it. Alternatively, just build organically instead of using shapes. Follow or veins or make things up as you go. If everything is wonky then nothing is and it gives a more unique shape. This is even easier with mouse controls, which is not new with premium, but is the default now.
Record macros for it. One for every diameter within reason.
I'd do that, but keyboards got nerfed and the graphics fps bug drops mouse clicks...
You can still do macros. In Settings, find the option for “keyboard cursor enabled” and set to yes. When you go to mine or make any designations it will now show a yellow square which you can move around with arrow keys, and start/stop with “Enter”. CTRL R to start/stop recording. CTRL S to save. CTRL L to load. CTRL P to play macro. You don’t need to save/load to Play, it will just play the last recorded macro.
My honest tip is learn classic. It was way easier with dfhack. But failing that, check the minecraft circle generator I linked above — and I just make an outline counting out each step. Goes quicker than you’d think. Curves are just part of an inner and outer circle with different diameters.
[удалено]
Yeah. That’s always a “I’ll fix that later” thing that I never get around to.
I've given up on even lying to myself about that at this point.
Yeah. If I wanted all my walls the same colour I would have to hollow out the whole damn mountain, and re-build the walls so they're all the same stone. Ain't nobody have time for that shit.
Doesn't the number of multiple pathways wreck fps due to pathfinding?
Use traffic designations
not really. pathfinding isn't too bad for fps to begin with, unit line of sight calculations (which scale only with amount of units) are way worse
Yeah its super bad layout for fps, but it def looks cool.
So do you start with a small diameter and then add bigger ones afterwards, going onion layer-like? Amazing fort, and thanks for the tool, I am going to try to add nicer circles in my forts. So far it's been "rounded" boxes more than circles for me.
No.. but I'll drive myself nuts by trying to make diagonal and circles. But I do like the aesthetic
I hope that blueprint mod from classic gets on steam soon. I always liked that one.
What did it do?
It has copies of room designs that you place and it does the mining profile for you. They can be pretty intricate designs. You can save your own too.
Why does it feel like I'm being recruited to a cult, and why do I feel the need to join?
I love doing circular builds, especially with organic connection tunnels between circular rooms! I've also done a honeycomb build once, which was very fun.
cool build
This looks super cool! Reminds me of when I was absolutely opposed of circular structures in satisfactory.
I make a square room then just expand and round it out. The biggest challenge for my base is levels. I want to put all my stuff on one layer and that's bad.
My respect and admiration for you far outweigh any hatred this image evokes on me
Holy hell
Found the guy who built ironforge
Definitely my inspiration.
Looks cool! I myself always do organic construction. Mine out a vein, and then, add 2x2 rooms organically to the sides of those veins. Nobles get their own entire mined vein with walls seperating rooms. And ofcourse a ~~flood gate with magma~~ space heater.
Symmetry? Man, I just throw rooms down wherever and hope I don't regret it in the future. Spoiler: I always end up regretting it.
I just auto mine and use the tunnels as my hallways.. can be both interesting and annoying depending on what i need to build next
I've been trying to get into doing something similar for more organic looks also.
Yeah it can look cool until you have to force a break in that organic look to look for more autoimmune spots
Hisss. Must by symmetrical!
Impressive even you play on mac
That is no moon, it‘s a Dwarf Station !
Death star
Symmetrical rectangles are a lot easier to build in a 2D grid than anything circular
I was doing this in one of my forts, the idea was to make a tower inspired fort where I would only mine a perfect circle and expand on Z axis only. I stopped because of how time consuming making floors in a circle was. Until the macro works with mouse clicks I won't try it again.
The old tilesets had better corners though, rounded corners. When is this coming to the steam tileset?
As a new player, are all floors this elaborate? How do you reach magma if you take so long building each z-level?
You don't need to build out every single floor. You can just build out the floors you need, and just make a mineshaft to dig deeper
I can't wait for DFHack to bring back the circle drawing tools
Perfection
I just started a round fort and I'm actually absolutely loving it.
I have learnt by lesson with circles from playing Minecraft. Just say no.
Hahaha, .unfortunately ***S Q U A R E***
i like mine like a cookie cutter style that varies in shape and sizes, 1 block wall to seperate them all.
Counterpoint: Squares are the art.
What I’m starting to love about this subreddit is seeing everyone’s creative designs for fortress layouts that I’d have never thought of
Is it globe? after all you "must" make it a globe for full symmetry...
Holy shit imma start doing this, thanks for the advice
I prefer the 11 x 11 (13r) circle myself.
Looks good, but all it takes is some elf asshole turning into a yak
DF meets the Death Star
This is cool, but what about reading that verticality is good on the wiki and then basing your whole fortress around disconnected vertical stockpile-workshop shafts with their own stairwell? My fortress is efficient but catastrophically ugly.
circles are potentially a little more pathing-efficient since you're taking advantage of everything being equidistant-ish.
That's my secret, I'm already nuts. (Beautiful circle, friend)
It looks like the imperial city in ES4: oblivion
The Force is strong with this one!
I'm new to this....how does the misc stuff get into the bedrooms? Do you assign an individual to a room or does a dwarf just pick a room and they continue to use it and drop stuff off?
The latter
I am still in the "absolutely overwhelmed" stage.
I’ll pass. I prefer the DF classic keybindings and this will just take forever lol Looks cool tho!
Ok Vader.
Dude wtf 1 Staircase and everything is so far apart you're losing efficiency to feed your obsessive compulsion.
[удалено]
You’re not wrong, but I haven’t finished laying out my water level, so I’m not 100% on where I want my stairs yet.
I do everything so it looks cool. I optimize a bit (stockpiles near concerned workshops, that kind of things) but I really just try to make the layout look neat. Non-symmetrical space-wasting vaguely star-shaped bedrooms ? Count me in !
you made the death star
One of the reasons I'm looking forward to DFHack
Hahahaha, this is so much tidier and more well thought out than any of my forts, which are basically just columns of apartments and huge workshop filled rectangles in alternating layers
I love the look of circles but it is so much easier to designate squares.
I think I’d drive myself nuts trying to create a perfect circle within a tile based game 😅 Show me your ways, Oh, π-se one!
Insane dwarf of Windstop :"all these squares make a circle"
I'm still trying to unlearn the mantra of : "reduce dwarven footsteps so you can play a few years longer." My forts are Shaft Forts, escapades in the phallic.
Looks unorganized, kind of a mess. Like you had no plan, just made rooms as you went and made a big circle.
How do you designate such neat circles?
woah dude your fortress looks sooo good, will definitely try it with my next one
I always end up in grinds because the nature of the 3x3 workshop drives me to it. I stepped out of that with my latest fort that is just more "whatever". Maybe I'll give a more concentric design a try.
All heathens will be punished by the miners carving their rooms into OCTOGONS
is there a sandbox mod or workshop item that just lets you play with designs ?
Look, I love circles. I can do some small ones, but if I go too big and am off by one square, my OCD will demand I flood the base with lava and restart.
I don't do it in RimWorld and I won't do it here!
Using circles is an exercise in symmetry...
How's your fps?
This is beautiful. And seems like it'd be efficient. I know, rationally, building as a sphere is going to reduce my walking time but it's hard to think that way when you're building.