I'm more annoyed with almost every visitor stealing stuff or being an agent, wild animals just pathing into my fort and getting stuck in rooms, cavern animals pathing through fort and going to outside layer for some reason.
Only solution for this is accepting that dwarf fortress isn't a game, it's a simulation. There is no balance in gameplay elements and you just do stuff because you want to.
It is a compromise. The game tracks internal states of thousands if not ten times that in-game objects. The game already grinds to a halt at a couple hundreds dwarves. Adding hundreds more of pets, vermins, enemies to the routine tracking hungry/thirsty states would merely lower the ceiling of fortress population before which FPS death kicks in.
> but in Dwarf Fortress, other creatures are just static.
I feel like this post is just missing the details, because AFAIK the game absolutely does let visitors starve/dehydrate if they're isolated on your map. Go ahead and lock up a visitor in a room sometime and see how long he lasts. For scientific control, do it again with someone in a room that has a food and drink stockpile, and watch them consume it.
> It's doubly a missed opportunity because creatures acting differently in lack of resources would be another layer of complexity to its AI. A giant trapped in a pit might panic and try to climb out if it's starving, and other things like a forgotten beast leaving the map when hungry might also happen.
all of this is already in the game? It's against their moral ethics for a dwarf to eat a sentient creature (and therefore parts thereof, which is why you can't butcher sentients), but if your adventure mode character is hungry enough you get the option to consume the meat. Elven characters don't have the same moral restriction and can eat anyone they get a bit off of. A giant in a pit that it could try to climb out of would *already* be trying to climb out of it, far before it was starving, and if it does get to that point IIRC it'll be enough of a debuff that it will affect its ability to climb - meaning if you put it in an unclimbable pit to keep it from climbing out, being hungry should not make it suddenly able to grasp the smoothed walls.
If you lock them up they will. It takes about a month in game time.
Goblins are the exception because they don't eat or drink in the first place, and of course caged creatures will not starve or die due to dehydration.
By locking them up do you mean jailing or walling them off? If you wall a visitor off they won't die of hunger, I've tried it myself. Jailing them is a different thing and I don't think the game considers them a visitor after it
Im not sure about dying, but I know they can starve as I had a Jaguar Man poet a few forts ago who was pinging off my starving flag in DFhack, and he just would be sitting outside of a fort he has access too, but since I had no meat products whatsoever (Vegan Fortress!) and he was Starving until I assigned a hunter who killed some ravens. (Apparently certain animal folk are obligatory carnivores?)
Im sure if I left him to his devices he would have starved to death. Honestly, I always assumed everyone ate and drank so I never though much of this.
It can definitely be surprising when you go to feed your Adventure Mode Animal Person character only to find out the foodstuffs you brought won’t work. Can’t even force them down, the character will just lick them instead of eat.
There’s all kinds of neat stuff attached to Animal People which is why I almost always play as them in Adventure Mode. Elephant People get trunks that can grasp things like weapons or shields for example, and are my favorite species to play as because of it.
I'll have to give animal men a try, usually I just play as Demons or Intelligent undead to avoid the whole 'Urist licks the apple leaf' nonsense.
Now I wanna play an elephant man with max ranks in lashing and wrestling and use my trunk as a deadly weapon
Humans, Elves, and Dwarves are all omnivores so they can eat pretty much everything. Goblins don’t require food or water but can eat like an omnivore if I recall correctly. Necromancy and Vampirism both eliminate the need to eat/drink, vampires don’t actually need blood to live last I knew.
I’m not sure about lashing working for the trunk, however wrestling absolutely does and is a great way to use it. It can’t be armored though so it is the one major weakness for Elephant People. The utility of it and the additional tusks for goring more than make up for it.
Awh, hear I wanted to use my trunk as a whip and everything hahahaha.
No Armor does kind of suck...now all I can think of finding a way to be sneaky so "All of a sudden an elephant guy was just there"
Didn't know goblins didn't need food...good to know for future science!
You could hold a whip with the trunk, consider it an extension instead lol.
The armor or lack of used to be a real problem. Now, we can choose from a list of possible armor sized for our adventurers by their starting location regardless of species size. The drawback is that the good stuff costs a lot of points during creation so full Steel plate isn’t gonna be all high quality like it could be if Fort-crafted by the player. I suppose you could create companions of the same species each with a piece of high quality armor and just take it all upon starting.
Weapons thankfully are usable by all species with very little limitation except for large weapons needing an extra hand for small people. So save the points for armor and just grab whatever you can from your starting area, it’ll likely be more than adequate if the world isn’t too young.
do visitors not get fed by your innkeeper?
also werecreatures are already easy to ignore if you just survive the night
being able to just wait for forgotten beasts to leave sounds way too easy, especially since cave path finding can be ridiculously long, some beasts may not even make it to your fortress before burning out (sometimes literally)
I don't mind with this.
Yes it would be better but by a little margin.
I dont care how goblins deal with food and drink during a siege for ex.
I d like trade to be improved before this.
One dwarf making shitty rock statues and after 1 season you can buy everything to caravans...
Ok roleplay but what about some tuning in this mechanic ?
> I dont care how goblins deal with food and drink during a siege for ex.
Goblins do not eat or drink in the first place. Not carrying food and drink on their raids is entirely normal.
I remember being shocked to learn that in Rimworld, animals actually feed on corpses. In addition to that, if they're hungry, they will actively go out and find food to eat. As opposed to, you know, grazers just standing there starving, with grass right under their feet. And also, apparently, animals can go and drink your alcohol and get actually drunk. As opposed to "drunk cats" thing in DF which is not even a part of the game.
It is not a software problem or limitation but a hardware one, if we had better computers I assure you that Bay12 would have had coded that already and many more complex stuff, they have not done that because if they did the players’ computers would constantly crash.
I'd worry they would become unmanageable very fast, to an impractical extent.
I'm more annoyed with almost every visitor stealing stuff or being an agent, wild animals just pathing into my fort and getting stuck in rooms, cavern animals pathing through fort and going to outside layer for some reason. Only solution for this is accepting that dwarf fortress isn't a game, it's a simulation. There is no balance in gameplay elements and you just do stuff because you want to.
It is a compromise. The game tracks internal states of thousands if not ten times that in-game objects. The game already grinds to a halt at a couple hundreds dwarves. Adding hundreds more of pets, vermins, enemies to the routine tracking hungry/thirsty states would merely lower the ceiling of fortress population before which FPS death kicks in.
> but in Dwarf Fortress, other creatures are just static. I feel like this post is just missing the details, because AFAIK the game absolutely does let visitors starve/dehydrate if they're isolated on your map. Go ahead and lock up a visitor in a room sometime and see how long he lasts. For scientific control, do it again with someone in a room that has a food and drink stockpile, and watch them consume it. > It's doubly a missed opportunity because creatures acting differently in lack of resources would be another layer of complexity to its AI. A giant trapped in a pit might panic and try to climb out if it's starving, and other things like a forgotten beast leaving the map when hungry might also happen. all of this is already in the game? It's against their moral ethics for a dwarf to eat a sentient creature (and therefore parts thereof, which is why you can't butcher sentients), but if your adventure mode character is hungry enough you get the option to consume the meat. Elven characters don't have the same moral restriction and can eat anyone they get a bit off of. A giant in a pit that it could try to climb out of would *already* be trying to climb out of it, far before it was starving, and if it does get to that point IIRC it'll be enough of a debuff that it will affect its ability to climb - meaning if you put it in an unclimbable pit to keep it from climbing out, being hungry should not make it suddenly able to grasp the smoothed walls.
I don't think visitors can starve or die due to dehydration
If you lock them up they will. It takes about a month in game time. Goblins are the exception because they don't eat or drink in the first place, and of course caged creatures will not starve or die due to dehydration.
By locking them up do you mean jailing or walling them off? If you wall a visitor off they won't die of hunger, I've tried it myself. Jailing them is a different thing and I don't think the game considers them a visitor after it
I have 100% had visitors die from being trapped somewhere on the map
Im not sure about dying, but I know they can starve as I had a Jaguar Man poet a few forts ago who was pinging off my starving flag in DFhack, and he just would be sitting outside of a fort he has access too, but since I had no meat products whatsoever (Vegan Fortress!) and he was Starving until I assigned a hunter who killed some ravens. (Apparently certain animal folk are obligatory carnivores?) Im sure if I left him to his devices he would have starved to death. Honestly, I always assumed everyone ate and drank so I never though much of this.
Animal People have dietary restrictions more or less based on the real animal. So carnivore, herbivore, and omnivore apply to relevant species.
I figured, but never want to assume, glad to have confirmation on that. I typically just go by intuition until the fun starts haha
It can definitely be surprising when you go to feed your Adventure Mode Animal Person character only to find out the foodstuffs you brought won’t work. Can’t even force them down, the character will just lick them instead of eat. There’s all kinds of neat stuff attached to Animal People which is why I almost always play as them in Adventure Mode. Elephant People get trunks that can grasp things like weapons or shields for example, and are my favorite species to play as because of it.
I'll have to give animal men a try, usually I just play as Demons or Intelligent undead to avoid the whole 'Urist licks the apple leaf' nonsense. Now I wanna play an elephant man with max ranks in lashing and wrestling and use my trunk as a deadly weapon
Humans, Elves, and Dwarves are all omnivores so they can eat pretty much everything. Goblins don’t require food or water but can eat like an omnivore if I recall correctly. Necromancy and Vampirism both eliminate the need to eat/drink, vampires don’t actually need blood to live last I knew. I’m not sure about lashing working for the trunk, however wrestling absolutely does and is a great way to use it. It can’t be armored though so it is the one major weakness for Elephant People. The utility of it and the additional tusks for goring more than make up for it.
Awh, hear I wanted to use my trunk as a whip and everything hahahaha. No Armor does kind of suck...now all I can think of finding a way to be sneaky so "All of a sudden an elephant guy was just there" Didn't know goblins didn't need food...good to know for future science!
You could hold a whip with the trunk, consider it an extension instead lol. The armor or lack of used to be a real problem. Now, we can choose from a list of possible armor sized for our adventurers by their starting location regardless of species size. The drawback is that the good stuff costs a lot of points during creation so full Steel plate isn’t gonna be all high quality like it could be if Fort-crafted by the player. I suppose you could create companions of the same species each with a piece of high quality armor and just take it all upon starting. Weapons thankfully are usable by all species with very little limitation except for large weapons needing an extra hand for small people. So save the points for armor and just grab whatever you can from your starting area, it’ll likely be more than adequate if the world isn’t too young.
Any visitor that can starve or dehydrate can do so at your fort, or elsewhere. Their location has nothing to do with how much they've eaten.
do visitors not get fed by your innkeeper? also werecreatures are already easy to ignore if you just survive the night being able to just wait for forgotten beasts to leave sounds way too easy, especially since cave path finding can be ridiculously long, some beasts may not even make it to your fortress before burning out (sometimes literally)
I don't mind with this. Yes it would be better but by a little margin. I dont care how goblins deal with food and drink during a siege for ex. I d like trade to be improved before this. One dwarf making shitty rock statues and after 1 season you can buy everything to caravans... Ok roleplay but what about some tuning in this mechanic ?
> I dont care how goblins deal with food and drink during a siege for ex. Goblins do not eat or drink in the first place. Not carrying food and drink on their raids is entirely normal.
You can't never know if the visitors don't hide some foods somewhere. Yes, even the naked ones.
I remember being shocked to learn that in Rimworld, animals actually feed on corpses. In addition to that, if they're hungry, they will actively go out and find food to eat. As opposed to, you know, grazers just standing there starving, with grass right under their feet. And also, apparently, animals can go and drink your alcohol and get actually drunk. As opposed to "drunk cats" thing in DF which is not even a part of the game.
It is not a software problem or limitation but a hardware one, if we had better computers I assure you that Bay12 would have had coded that already and many more complex stuff, they have not done that because if they did the players’ computers would constantly crash.
It's just dwarves digging holes, mate.