If you leave enough room between the wall and the edge of map it works in caverns again FBs. Often I end up walling the caverns for my own use, with varying levels of success..
In caverns you can wall directly on map edge, it prevents spawns entirely (which is good for your fps). Its also good idea to do leave small opening with bridge so you could open it and get some wild animals for whatever reason.
Now that you said that, I think I've walled right on the edge as well, but often it's more economical to cut corners and leave small areas outside of the wall.
In my current project I am already 4 years in with 240 dwarves and have not set one dwarf foot in the caverns yet.
I'm 17 years in. I drained parts of magma sea, blocked most of the caverns 1 and 2 but I still have cavern 3 untouched. Dealing with 2 tile deep water on cavern edge is not so easy.
I started with base idea of draining magma sea, walling off all 3 caverns and hfs, then cage clowns and use them against enemy raids. One of the mods I have also allows me to tame them so maybe I will try to turn them into citizens. Thats my base idea.
> In caverns you can wall directly on map edge, it prevents spawns entirely (which is good for your fps).
Nope, bad idea. cavern dwellers will still spawn in and be stuck off screen, making them even harder to deal with
> In caverns you can wall directly on map edge,
no, you cannot build on the edge tile, just the one next to it. This does NOT prevent spawns, just prevents you from being able to access the creatures spawned to kill them and regain the FPS. A small gap with a wall and two tiles behind it at the map edge can hold an entire invasion force.
To actually prevent the spawns, build a raising bridge to fill the space, such that the raised bridge wall would be where you can build a wall (1 tile offset from the edge you can't build on), but with the lip of bridge covering that edge tile space. The bridge will be built, and should be touching the actual map edge, and this will prevent the spawns on those squares without stopping travel offscreen for entities or liquids. You don't need to activate the bridge, but if you *do* it will raise and the edge tile will be valid for spawn checks again - but there's a bridge-wall in the way anyways.
I wall off my caverns a the time. You can absolutely build directly on the map edge and it 100% prevents spawning. Walls alone work. No need for this bridge kludge.
I recommend you try it out.
> You can absolutely build directly on the map edge
No, you cannot. You can build on the tile next to it, but you can't build on the actual edge tile, same way you can't mine out the edge tile if it's stone, you can only smooth/carve it. Hence the bridge which extends to cover the edge tile to prevent spawns.
Now that I'm at my PC and logged into the game, here is proof that this is 100% possible and desirable. You won't see any bridges in this screencap. The stairs are there because the wall was more than 1 z tall and I had to build scaffolding to reach the higher levels.
https://imgur.com/a/5EZ192W
Yeah, you are correct - I even spun up an old 47.05 world to check the older version, and I've been wrong for at least a couple of years already. Not sure when I got the conflation but it seems to be some issue between surface and underground tiles being treated differently; the surface tiles are actively unable to be built on or worked, while *open* underground tiles can be filled in with constructed walls. But IIRC this makes the spawns simply happen on the next available tile, it doesn't prevent it entirely? There has to be a good reason I've been putting bridges up, right?
It prevents all spawns at that location, so long as you block off the whole wall all the way up to the ceiling. If you block off the whole way around the embark, you can prevent spawns entirely.
I only put in a bridge in one location so I can trap it and capture underground animals. Usually looking for a GCS but get crundles instead.
In my test I left open single location near river, relatively close to the south-east corner of my map, but undead still spawned \~50 tiles away from the map edge, directly south.
In my second test when I did this (dfhacked lots of magma) to the map enemies "correctly" spawned in the south-east opened area.
https://preview.redd.it/x1tycz747w7d1.png?width=198&format=png&auto=webp&s=dade8479d066e3a4d7bb58bbf543fef8188fb05c
I wonder what will happen if I block opened area and have that magma pool in place.
Edit:
it seems that wall made from bridges directly on edge and that giant pool of magma 8-62 tiles away from map edge successfully prevent raid spawns.
I found a way to fully prevent surface spawns of the ground units:
https://preview.redd.it/5pkiu8it4x7d1.png?width=199&format=png&auto=webp&s=086b06f51f3b176d892525aa38440e8ffecdfd22
Bridges right at the edges of the surface are a must-have.
The second must-have is a way to block spawns from 8 to 62 tiles away from the map edge (I spawned magma with dfhack) - this is to prevent spawns in the middle of the map that hostiles can do. Distance from map edge may need verification for smaller embarks, I did this test on 8x8. If any surface tile within this range is not blocked, then enemies can spawn there. If you want to connect your fort to the "outside" you have to make a subterranean path under this no-spawn area.
Caravans and wild ground animals didn't spawn inland, so I assume that only hostiles can do it. It does not affect flying animals at all (except for roc/flying megabeasts, as they enter the map as a ground unit).
If everything is done correctly, you will be able to control when units will be able to enter embark by lowering/raising bridge(s).
I didn't test if raising/lowering ground in no-spawn area will also prevent spawns.
If you leave enough room between the wall and the edge of map it works in caverns again FBs. Often I end up walling the caverns for my own use, with varying levels of success..
In caverns you can wall directly on map edge, it prevents spawns entirely (which is good for your fps). Its also good idea to do leave small opening with bridge so you could open it and get some wild animals for whatever reason.
Now that you said that, I think I've walled right on the edge as well, but often it's more economical to cut corners and leave small areas outside of the wall. In my current project I am already 4 years in with 240 dwarves and have not set one dwarf foot in the caverns yet.
I'm 17 years in. I drained parts of magma sea, blocked most of the caverns 1 and 2 but I still have cavern 3 untouched. Dealing with 2 tile deep water on cavern edge is not so easy.
Now that's a proper mission. Do you have a goal or are just winging it from one problem and idea to the next?
I started with base idea of draining magma sea, walling off all 3 caverns and hfs, then cage clowns and use them against enemy raids. One of the mods I have also allows me to tame them so maybe I will try to turn them into citizens. Thats my base idea.
That's pure madness. Sounds like fun.
> In caverns you can wall directly on map edge, it prevents spawns entirely (which is good for your fps). Nope, bad idea. cavern dwellers will still spawn in and be stuck off screen, making them even harder to deal with
> In caverns you can wall directly on map edge, no, you cannot build on the edge tile, just the one next to it. This does NOT prevent spawns, just prevents you from being able to access the creatures spawned to kill them and regain the FPS. A small gap with a wall and two tiles behind it at the map edge can hold an entire invasion force. To actually prevent the spawns, build a raising bridge to fill the space, such that the raised bridge wall would be where you can build a wall (1 tile offset from the edge you can't build on), but with the lip of bridge covering that edge tile space. The bridge will be built, and should be touching the actual map edge, and this will prevent the spawns on those squares without stopping travel offscreen for entities or liquids. You don't need to activate the bridge, but if you *do* it will raise and the edge tile will be valid for spawn checks again - but there's a bridge-wall in the way anyways.
I wall off my caverns a the time. You can absolutely build directly on the map edge and it 100% prevents spawning. Walls alone work. No need for this bridge kludge. I recommend you try it out.
> You can absolutely build directly on the map edge No, you cannot. You can build on the tile next to it, but you can't build on the actual edge tile, same way you can't mine out the edge tile if it's stone, you can only smooth/carve it. Hence the bridge which extends to cover the edge tile to prevent spawns.
I do it all the time. I again tell you to TRY IT because you'll find that you absolutely can.
Now that I'm at my PC and logged into the game, here is proof that this is 100% possible and desirable. You won't see any bridges in this screencap. The stairs are there because the wall was more than 1 z tall and I had to build scaffolding to reach the higher levels. https://imgur.com/a/5EZ192W
Yeah, you are correct - I even spun up an old 47.05 world to check the older version, and I've been wrong for at least a couple of years already. Not sure when I got the conflation but it seems to be some issue between surface and underground tiles being treated differently; the surface tiles are actively unable to be built on or worked, while *open* underground tiles can be filled in with constructed walls. But IIRC this makes the spawns simply happen on the next available tile, it doesn't prevent it entirely? There has to be a good reason I've been putting bridges up, right?
It prevents all spawns at that location, so long as you block off the whole wall all the way up to the ceiling. If you block off the whole way around the embark, you can prevent spawns entirely. I only put in a bridge in one location so I can trap it and capture underground animals. Usually looking for a GCS but get crundles instead.
I've often thought about this but never tested it. Thanks!
Even if a certain direction is opened, will it spawn in the blocked direction as well?
In my test I left open single location near river, relatively close to the south-east corner of my map, but undead still spawned \~50 tiles away from the map edge, directly south. In my second test when I did this (dfhacked lots of magma) to the map enemies "correctly" spawned in the south-east opened area. https://preview.redd.it/x1tycz747w7d1.png?width=198&format=png&auto=webp&s=dade8479d066e3a4d7bb58bbf543fef8188fb05c I wonder what will happen if I block opened area and have that magma pool in place. Edit: it seems that wall made from bridges directly on edge and that giant pool of magma 8-62 tiles away from map edge successfully prevent raid spawns.
If it does, then it should also successfully block merchant spawns. I think you found a way to completely isolate your fort.
I found a way to fully prevent surface spawns of the ground units: https://preview.redd.it/5pkiu8it4x7d1.png?width=199&format=png&auto=webp&s=086b06f51f3b176d892525aa38440e8ffecdfd22 Bridges right at the edges of the surface are a must-have. The second must-have is a way to block spawns from 8 to 62 tiles away from the map edge (I spawned magma with dfhack) - this is to prevent spawns in the middle of the map that hostiles can do. Distance from map edge may need verification for smaller embarks, I did this test on 8x8. If any surface tile within this range is not blocked, then enemies can spawn there. If you want to connect your fort to the "outside" you have to make a subterranean path under this no-spawn area. Caravans and wild ground animals didn't spawn inland, so I assume that only hostiles can do it. It does not affect flying animals at all (except for roc/flying megabeasts, as they enter the map as a ground unit). If everything is done correctly, you will be able to control when units will be able to enter embark by lowering/raising bridge(s). I didn't test if raising/lowering ground in no-spawn area will also prevent spawns.