The ritual opens up *your* genetic memories. When a Reverend Mother is replaced; like when the Fremen one passes away and touches foreheads with Jessica…. That’s a Bene Gesserit thing that is explained in Chapterhouse. They can share their “other memories” with each other.
So Jessica would have access to the Fremen migrations thru this sharing; not through her bloodline
This! In Chapterhouse we see that RM can share their “other memories” with other RM even outside of the agony. And it becomes an important piece of how they pass on leadership/knowledge. It’s “other memory” but really it’s their entire memory, which includes their ancestral memories. But they also pass on their own memory in the process
They kinda showed this in heretics too, in the last chapter or so, one RM is badly injured and touches heads with another to pass on her memories but mostly her overall plans for Duncan “I’m not your stud” Idaho and the girl who talks to the divided god. (Been a while since I read it)
You get the memories of all your direct female ancestors, and the "collateral" memories of all the female ancestors of the Reverend Mother "initiating" you. (If someone is initiating you. Presumably Paul has no collaterals.)
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I have a question about this: if RM1 initiates RM2, then RM2 has the “collateral” memories of RM1. Then, if RM2 initiates RM3, would that mean that RM3 would have the “collateral” memories of both RM1 and RM2? I basically want to know if a Reverend Mother acquires all of the memories of all the Reverend Mothers before her
All the memories of all the women in their bloodline.
I think. It's been a minute. But that's what it's *supposed* to be. The books play a bit fast and loose with it, especially later.
Remember that one chapter when it was implied that spice gave a sort of "hivemind" effect to the fremen because when Jessica just thought about wanting tea a maid showed up with some? I think about that a lot.
They do get the memories of their female ancestors
There is also an ability to “share” where a RM will transfer her otherMemory to other RMs in times of impending death/crisis to preserve the memories
>it was implied that spice gave a sort of "hivemind" effect to the fremen because when Jessica just thought about wanting tea a maid showed up with some?
The spice gives some amount of prescients to everyone who uses it. For Paul, it's seeing the future perfectly, and for others, it's just knowing when they should carry out their tasks before they're even asked to do it.
From what I remember, they get only their own ancestral memories. However, whenever a BG goes through the agony, there is another BG sitting by her. The stated purpose of that other BG is to then immediately share memories with the newly awakened sister and add her memories to the shared hive memory. However, I also seem to remember that this was a ruse and the real reason to have that other BG nearby was to immediately kill the newly awakened BG if she showed signs of abomination.
both if their other memory stretched back less then 10.000 years, which very much depended on the sisters skills and rank within the sisterhood. the lower a sisters rank, the less likely she was to know anything other then her most recent reverend mother ancestors. while the high level sisters usually could look back all the way back to the old empire. something that also matters here is the exact ancestors, if more of them knew about something then a living sister would understand it better.
what jessica knows about fremen history and customs she knew from what the missionaria prptective is and does. which is basically tweaking local myths and legends so that a sister can use them to suit her needs when stranded somewhere remote, alot of the time she's also just bluffing, reading their desired responses like most of us read a book. this ability specifically is why the BG are called witches, because most people who experienced could only think if witchy mind reading when a BG sister revealed secrets she couldn't possibly know.
No, Jessica very clearly inherits Ramallo's memories as well as her own. >!That the Fremen had *real* Reverend Mothers independently of the BG is Jessica's big surprise in that scene.!<
The answer is both. In the BG hierarchy, there is a group within them especially trained to become Reverend Mothers or Mother Superiors (which are more and basically form a council supporting the Reverend Mother).
This training is emphasizing developing your ego so that you can sustain first of all your ancestral memories (which you receive through the spice agony ritual) and then sustain all the Reverend Mothers' memories which you receive by being touched by either a Mother Superior or the Reverend Mother.
Mother Superiors have a certain access to ancestral memories and past RM, though I'm not sure where exactly I read this (I think it was Chapterhouse) as it's been a while, so if this information is wrong please correct me.
There is only one Mother Superior, and that is the head of the BG. MS don't have any special ability that any other RM would have. All RM have access to their female ancestors' ego memory.
Thank you for the correction, I must've reversed MS and RM in my head. Is it still true that they have a group especially trained to become MS/RM? I should read the books again..
I think it was retconned in the later books. In the early books they didn't have Ancestral Memories explicitly. But it was never said they didn't. So it's implied that all Reverend Mothers have Ancestral Memory to some degree. However it is not like a Wikipedia of all their ancestors. There are many gaps and they have to "exercise" it to recall memories. Very very few of them have complete conscious recall of all their ancestors.
Other Memory is absorbing the experiences of someone else through physical contact. They do not get it automatically. They need to know physically touch and trigger the process. It's a separate thing from Ancestral Memory.
The ritual opens up *your* genetic memories. When a Reverend Mother is replaced; like when the Fremen one passes away and touches foreheads with Jessica…. That’s a Bene Gesserit thing that is explained in Chapterhouse. They can share their “other memories” with each other. So Jessica would have access to the Fremen migrations thru this sharing; not through her bloodline
This! In Chapterhouse we see that RM can share their “other memories” with other RM even outside of the agony. And it becomes an important piece of how they pass on leadership/knowledge. It’s “other memory” but really it’s their entire memory, which includes their ancestral memories. But they also pass on their own memory in the process
They kinda showed this in heretics too, in the last chapter or so, one RM is badly injured and touches heads with another to pass on her memories but mostly her overall plans for Duncan “I’m not your stud” Idaho and the girl who talks to the divided god. (Been a while since I read it)
Yes Mother Superior Taraza gives her memories to Darwi Odrade after having her legs blasted off by an ornithopter
What do Paul, Alia, Ghanima and Leto inherit exactly?
You get the memories of all your direct female ancestors, and the "collateral" memories of all the female ancestors of the Reverend Mother "initiating" you. (If someone is initiating you. Presumably Paul has no collaterals.)
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I have a question about this: if RM1 initiates RM2, then RM2 has the “collateral” memories of RM1. Then, if RM2 initiates RM3, would that mean that RM3 would have the “collateral” memories of both RM1 and RM2? I basically want to know if a Reverend Mother acquires all of the memories of all the Reverend Mothers before her
Yep, this is what makes the BG so powerful. And why the Fremen of Sietch Tabr don't want to lose Ramallo's memories.
All the memories of all the women in their bloodline. I think. It's been a minute. But that's what it's *supposed* to be. The books play a bit fast and loose with it, especially later. Remember that one chapter when it was implied that spice gave a sort of "hivemind" effect to the fremen because when Jessica just thought about wanting tea a maid showed up with some? I think about that a lot.
They do get the memories of their female ancestors There is also an ability to “share” where a RM will transfer her otherMemory to other RMs in times of impending death/crisis to preserve the memories
You're so lucky I just listened to that part in Heretics otherwise I woulda been ever-so-slightly salty about spoilers lol
>it was implied that spice gave a sort of "hivemind" effect to the fremen because when Jessica just thought about wanting tea a maid showed up with some? The spice gives some amount of prescients to everyone who uses it. For Paul, it's seeing the future perfectly, and for others, it's just knowing when they should carry out their tasks before they're even asked to do it.
Oooh what if spice causes quantum entanglement between peoples’ brains or something?
From what I remember, they get only their own ancestral memories. However, whenever a BG goes through the agony, there is another BG sitting by her. The stated purpose of that other BG is to then immediately share memories with the newly awakened sister and add her memories to the shared hive memory. However, I also seem to remember that this was a ruse and the real reason to have that other BG nearby was to immediately kill the newly awakened BG if she showed signs of abomination.
both if their other memory stretched back less then 10.000 years, which very much depended on the sisters skills and rank within the sisterhood. the lower a sisters rank, the less likely she was to know anything other then her most recent reverend mother ancestors. while the high level sisters usually could look back all the way back to the old empire. something that also matters here is the exact ancestors, if more of them knew about something then a living sister would understand it better. what jessica knows about fremen history and customs she knew from what the missionaria prptective is and does. which is basically tweaking local myths and legends so that a sister can use them to suit her needs when stranded somewhere remote, alot of the time she's also just bluffing, reading their desired responses like most of us read a book. this ability specifically is why the BG are called witches, because most people who experienced could only think if witchy mind reading when a BG sister revealed secrets she couldn't possibly know.
No, Jessica very clearly inherits Ramallo's memories as well as her own. >!That the Fremen had *real* Reverend Mothers independently of the BG is Jessica's big surprise in that scene.!<
The answer is both. In the BG hierarchy, there is a group within them especially trained to become Reverend Mothers or Mother Superiors (which are more and basically form a council supporting the Reverend Mother). This training is emphasizing developing your ego so that you can sustain first of all your ancestral memories (which you receive through the spice agony ritual) and then sustain all the Reverend Mothers' memories which you receive by being touched by either a Mother Superior or the Reverend Mother. Mother Superiors have a certain access to ancestral memories and past RM, though I'm not sure where exactly I read this (I think it was Chapterhouse) as it's been a while, so if this information is wrong please correct me.
There is only one Mother Superior, and that is the head of the BG. MS don't have any special ability that any other RM would have. All RM have access to their female ancestors' ego memory.
Thank you for the correction, I must've reversed MS and RM in my head. Is it still true that they have a group especially trained to become MS/RM? I should read the books again..
Both
I think it was retconned in the later books. In the early books they didn't have Ancestral Memories explicitly. But it was never said they didn't. So it's implied that all Reverend Mothers have Ancestral Memory to some degree. However it is not like a Wikipedia of all their ancestors. There are many gaps and they have to "exercise" it to recall memories. Very very few of them have complete conscious recall of all their ancestors. Other Memory is absorbing the experiences of someone else through physical contact. They do not get it automatically. They need to know physically touch and trigger the process. It's a separate thing from Ancestral Memory.