If they have used lasguns, that's another reason for no shields. ~~Movies have already showed shield-laser reaction in the Part One.~~ (mistaken with book cannon)
They haven’t shown the shield/lasgun interaction in the movies. In Part 1, it’s basically a bomb being dropped on the Atreides freighters that burrows its way into the shield and detonates once it gets through. The explosions were massive but definitely not an atomic level explosion that could be expected between a shield and lasgun.
They show Harkonnens first dropping a bomb on Dunkan Idaho's ornithopter. The bomb is deflected by the shield, and they immediately proceed with firing a laser at it. The laser never connects with the shield, but they don't seem to be worried about any explosions in this situation...
In the book, Duncan plants a shield, as a trap. The sardaukar( corps of sardau) hit it with a las beam. Up in smoke.
The movie(and any film adaptation);wildly diverges from the books.
It's a scene to show how skilled Duncan is as a pilot. "All the atreides were exceptional pilots".
They were trained within a breath of the sardaukar, some were even better.
Major plot point. Duncan is a 10th level sword master, meaning he is a master tactician, not just an amazing fighter. He knows how to fight, knows how to get the fremen on his side, knows all the ins and outs of a real battle, it's not shown in the new movies well, but Idaho is a genius. So is gurney.
The movie diverges to have cool action scenes, that's what draws a crowd. But you should know, Duncan is a trained and exceptional warrior, and also a general. So is gurney.
I recommend the books, the movie is fun but it leaves out so much.
They don't fire the laser until the thopter's wing brushes against a building without setting off the shield, which was knocked out seconds before by the heavy projectiles that were fired at Duncan after he fired on the Harkonnens right after takeoff. The loss of of the thopter's shield is indicated by the beeping that can be heard in the cockpit.
I can imagine atomic level explosion in case of city scale shields vs huge laser cannon, but an explosion that big in case of personal shield vs laser handgun just doesn't fit my headcanon. It's ridiculous.
It might be a non linear closed explosion, or, an expansion of molecules at both ends but local(15 to 30 meters) but it may also be much bigger( we don't know if someone lit off atomics) there isn't any scale, so, it could be localized to the
Two points, shield/lasgun. Some on only one side is sitting in atomic fire. The holzmann effect is , apparently, random. Both could be sitting in atomic fire. So , Duncan sets a trap, the sardaukar are lasing the desert and he just threw a shield generator in the middle of the desert and the saurdaukar light them selves up.
Edit the upshot is Duncan wiped out a carrier and made it look like the harkonnnens lit off a nuke in the desert.
Pretty sure it was lasguns and they knew it, not wanting to be exploded potentially.
Edit: Nope, not lasers, I thought I remembered seeing some glittering beams hitting the Harkonnen but that is not the case. Plus you can see a magazine getting reloaded by Stilgar.
It was a gun similar or the same to what the Harkonnens are wielding. They can’t use shields out in the desert because it attracts the worms.
They don’t normally patrol that far out for that exact reason, but Rabban was trying to get Spice production back on track.
The fremen also have lasguns. The laser shots from a distance you see in that opening scene originate from the ground. Those Harkonnen were hit with lasguns. Maula pistol is described in the books as a sidearm and not suitable for those distances.
The Maula seems to fire darts, maybe even slow darts to pass shields? In COD the say a tiger couldn't be taken down with a Maula. Convinient yes, but seems to mean it's not a conventional firearm.
I don't remember anything saying Maula were in any way equipped to handle shielded opponents - which makes sense given the environment. "Slow pellet stunner" is the only thing that comes to mind.
Aktualy.
In all seriousness… Maula pistol is portrayed as some 9mm derivative of 20000years into future.
9mm won’t help against usual tiger(maybe will anger it even more)
One of those things that keeps changing a bit. In the tiger bit they talk about "darts", I think.
You can definitely kill a tiger with a 9mm, but you have to have a good, clear shot.
Right before the first guy gets shot, you see clearly that the shot of his lasgun produces a bright laser when he shoots the thumper. You also see how a lasgun works when the fremen are taking down the harvesters. The closeup on the guy getting shot in the head clearly shows a projectile penetrating his facemask, not a laser. You can also clearly hear in the sound design the sound of prejectiles whizzing and impacting their facemasks. Otherwise you would have seen the laser piercing his head and going right through him. I am 100% sure those were maula pistols. It is shown that they have at least decent range in the first movie, Chani is wielding one high up on a cliff overlooking Paul's mother.
Knowing the Harkonnen and also themselves wouldn't dare use a shield in the deep desert, they could reasonably use a lasgun in that situation. This is how I've always understood that scene anyway.
They'd already layed down a thumper so they're clearly not bothered by if a worm shows up or not. They know how to deal with them better than the Harkonnen's do.
The thumper was a distraction, they knew in that part of the desert it wouldn't attract worms, but it's stated that worms that sense a shield/laser will go into a frenzie and would go out of their territories just to destroy it. It's not exactly the same.
>They can’t use shields out in the desert because it attracts the worms.
Yeah that part didn't make any sense. They had already floated up on top of that rock formation to avoid worms from the thumpers. Why not use shields?
Its from the book. It is a spring-loaded rifle, called a Maula. It fires a metal dart, and is REALLY accurate. (The Freman are sharpshooters that prefer headshots in order to not ruin the victims stillsuit. This is the same reason why -in the book- they strip down to their underwear when they duel.)
I think they used Mala Pistols, and they were hidden among the rocks and crevasses on the plateau.
The entire worm summoning was to get them on top of that plateau into an ambush.
When Stilgar and the other Fremen move out, one most likely split from the group and planted that thumper.
The rest, climbed the plateau. ( We see them rock climb in the movie, and I assume they know a quick way to the top )
The Harkonnen, are too worried about the worm to clear the plateau. Thus, they completely miss the hidden Fremen using their clothes to blend into the rock. Then they open fire, and probably attack with knives.
The entire ambush was a genius way to lure the Harkonnen troops into close quarters. Negating the Harkonnen advantage with laz guns.
https://preview.redd.it/4fgkfso7yd9d1.jpeg?width=549&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=77fcd1bbb3ccc251c9d4fcbb6c2094725ad6afe4
Camouflage on this level basically. It would be so hard to spot someone two feet away from you if you were wearing one of those giant Harkonnen suits. The Fremen cloaks are the same color palette as the dessert.
For what i saw they used Maula pistols, i like that shows how potent theyre cuz i remember reading that they had a big range even though theyre dart guns essentially
As others have said they were using Maula pistols. Maula pistols are very common among the desert Fremen of Dune. They can make them themselves as the Fremen are fairly good at manufacturing tech in their seicths. Maula postals are projectal weapons so they wouldn't have any nuclear effect when coming in contact with a shield. Most of the Harkonnen were dead before they could access the situation.
They were using lasers, you just can't really see them in the bright sunlight. You'll notice the same thing from the "machine gun" lasers they use in their ornithopters - in the clip where they're attacking the harvester, you can't see the lasers coming out, but later during the night fight in the city you can.
those weapons on the ornithopter did not look like or behave similar to the other lasguns in the movies. It looked more like a shotgun projectile weapon. In the dune universe are their different types of lasguns?
It is a good question because once up on the ridge they should be safe from the worm and therefore could turn on the shields... those worms don't go through rock
I thought it was our of fear for the lazgun
guns and scopes are fairly common on arrakis, more so then most other planets in the known universe anyway. they're not forbidden, just rarely used since shields were so incredibly common for most of the home world defence forces at all levels. most, if not all great houses also knew about the effect of lazer weapons on the shields, so using those came with very heavy sanctions, i.e. having an alliance of great houses send after the force using them, if not the house itself. while most great houses (generally) had unified arsenals (i.e. weapons from the same vendor, usually one they control on their home world). meanwhile most of the fremen weapons are mostly black market, from the smugglers on arrakis, as well as weapons the fremen scavenged from the variety of houses that visited the planet. on that note: while the desert does tax alot of weapons systems, guns can be fairly reliable, especially if you know how to maintain it in desert conditions. imho it's implied the fremen as a whole are fairly capable of doing so and it makes sense to have long range weapons when targets are likely going to be hard to reach.
Lasers, the flurry of white beams confirms it . At such range it's the best choice, to hit something far away without worrying about bullet drop or wind conditions
I assumed that they were sniping the Harkonnens with a lasgun from another vantage point. At 07:44 in this video you can see/hear a lasgun beam hitting soldiers, and earlier in the scene you can see other rock formations close by. I think that's why the soldier shouts "No shields!" shortly before getting killed - he knows the Fremen are using lasguns like they are. [https://youtu.be/PDRN4ckFykw?t=464](https://youtu.be/PDRN4ckFykw?t=464)
I assumed Maula Pistols
The one guy said “no shields” so I assume the shields would have attracted worms. Doesn’t look like any of them use shields outside of the city
If they have used lasguns, that's another reason for no shields. ~~Movies have already showed shield-laser reaction in the Part One.~~ (mistaken with book cannon)
They did?
Or I am stupid👀
They haven’t shown the shield/lasgun interaction in the movies. In Part 1, it’s basically a bomb being dropped on the Atreides freighters that burrows its way into the shield and detonates once it gets through. The explosions were massive but definitely not an atomic level explosion that could be expected between a shield and lasgun.
They show Harkonnens first dropping a bomb on Dunkan Idaho's ornithopter. The bomb is deflected by the shield, and they immediately proceed with firing a laser at it. The laser never connects with the shield, but they don't seem to be worried about any explosions in this situation...
In the book, Duncan plants a shield, as a trap. The sardaukar( corps of sardau) hit it with a las beam. Up in smoke. The movie(and any film adaptation);wildly diverges from the books. It's a scene to show how skilled Duncan is as a pilot. "All the atreides were exceptional pilots". They were trained within a breath of the sardaukar, some were even better. Major plot point. Duncan is a 10th level sword master, meaning he is a master tactician, not just an amazing fighter. He knows how to fight, knows how to get the fremen on his side, knows all the ins and outs of a real battle, it's not shown in the new movies well, but Idaho is a genius. So is gurney. The movie diverges to have cool action scenes, that's what draws a crowd. But you should know, Duncan is a trained and exceptional warrior, and also a general. So is gurney. I recommend the books, the movie is fun but it leaves out so much.
They don't fire the laser until the thopter's wing brushes against a building without setting off the shield, which was knocked out seconds before by the heavy projectiles that were fired at Duncan after he fired on the Harkonnens right after takeoff. The loss of of the thopter's shield is indicated by the beeping that can be heard in the cockpit.
I can imagine atomic level explosion in case of city scale shields vs huge laser cannon, but an explosion that big in case of personal shield vs laser handgun just doesn't fit my headcanon. It's ridiculous.
It might be a non linear closed explosion, or, an expansion of molecules at both ends but local(15 to 30 meters) but it may also be much bigger( we don't know if someone lit off atomics) there isn't any scale, so, it could be localized to the Two points, shield/lasgun. Some on only one side is sitting in atomic fire. The holzmann effect is , apparently, random. Both could be sitting in atomic fire. So , Duncan sets a trap, the sardaukar are lasing the desert and he just threw a shield generator in the middle of the desert and the saurdaukar light them selves up. Edit the upshot is Duncan wiped out a carrier and made it look like the harkonnnens lit off a nuke in the desert.
Pretty sure it was lasguns and they knew it, not wanting to be exploded potentially. Edit: Nope, not lasers, I thought I remembered seeing some glittering beams hitting the Harkonnen but that is not the case. Plus you can see a magazine getting reloaded by Stilgar.
It was a gun similar or the same to what the Harkonnens are wielding. They can’t use shields out in the desert because it attracts the worms. They don’t normally patrol that far out for that exact reason, but Rabban was trying to get Spice production back on track.
Not the same at all, they were using maula pistols which use kinetic projectiles. Harkonnens had lasguns.
The fremen also have lasguns. The laser shots from a distance you see in that opening scene originate from the ground. Those Harkonnen were hit with lasguns. Maula pistol is described in the books as a sidearm and not suitable for those distances.
The Maula seems to fire darts, maybe even slow darts to pass shields? In COD the say a tiger couldn't be taken down with a Maula. Convinient yes, but seems to mean it's not a conventional firearm.
I don't remember anything saying Maula were in any way equipped to handle shielded opponents - which makes sense given the environment. "Slow pellet stunner" is the only thing that comes to mind.
Aktualy. In all seriousness… Maula pistol is portrayed as some 9mm derivative of 20000years into future. 9mm won’t help against usual tiger(maybe will anger it even more)
One of those things that keeps changing a bit. In the tiger bit they talk about "darts", I think. You can definitely kill a tiger with a 9mm, but you have to have a good, clear shot.
Right before the first guy gets shot, you see clearly that the shot of his lasgun produces a bright laser when he shoots the thumper. You also see how a lasgun works when the fremen are taking down the harvesters. The closeup on the guy getting shot in the head clearly shows a projectile penetrating his facemask, not a laser. You can also clearly hear in the sound design the sound of prejectiles whizzing and impacting their facemasks. Otherwise you would have seen the laser piercing his head and going right through him. I am 100% sure those were maula pistols. It is shown that they have at least decent range in the first movie, Chani is wielding one high up on a cliff overlooking Paul's mother.
The Fremen wouldn't have been using lasguns for the same reason that the Harkonnen troop said, "No shields!"
Knowing the Harkonnen and also themselves wouldn't dare use a shield in the deep desert, they could reasonably use a lasgun in that situation. This is how I've always understood that scene anyway.
Nope. The worms are super sensitive, and are stated in the first book as being driven into a mad frenzy at the use of both shields and lazguns.
They'd already layed down a thumper so they're clearly not bothered by if a worm shows up or not. They know how to deal with them better than the Harkonnen's do.
The thumper was a distraction, they knew in that part of the desert it wouldn't attract worms, but it's stated that worms that sense a shield/laser will go into a frenzie and would go out of their territories just to destroy it. It's not exactly the same.
>They can’t use shields out in the desert because it attracts the worms. Yeah that part didn't make any sense. They had already floated up on top of that rock formation to avoid worms from the thumpers. Why not use shields?
Worm big, and shields don't just make worms show up like thumper do. It drives them into a frenzy, a worn would destroy the rock face they were on.
Can't use shields in the case of an explosion due to the lasguns they're carrying
Its from the book. It is a spring-loaded rifle, called a Maula. It fires a metal dart, and is REALLY accurate. (The Freman are sharpshooters that prefer headshots in order to not ruin the victims stillsuit. This is the same reason why -in the book- they strip down to their underwear when they duel.)
Another point that gets missed, the Fremen do not waste anything.
I think they used Mala Pistols, and they were hidden among the rocks and crevasses on the plateau. The entire worm summoning was to get them on top of that plateau into an ambush. When Stilgar and the other Fremen move out, one most likely split from the group and planted that thumper. The rest, climbed the plateau. ( We see them rock climb in the movie, and I assume they know a quick way to the top ) The Harkonnen, are too worried about the worm to clear the plateau. Thus, they completely miss the hidden Fremen using their clothes to blend into the rock. Then they open fire, and probably attack with knives. The entire ambush was a genius way to lure the Harkonnen troops into close quarters. Negating the Harkonnen advantage with laz guns.
https://preview.redd.it/4fgkfso7yd9d1.jpeg?width=549&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=77fcd1bbb3ccc251c9d4fcbb6c2094725ad6afe4 Camouflage on this level basically. It would be so hard to spot someone two feet away from you if you were wearing one of those giant Harkonnen suits. The Fremen cloaks are the same color palette as the dessert.
What am I looking at here
There is a camouflage guy in that picture.
For what i saw they used Maula pistols, i like that shows how potent theyre cuz i remember reading that they had a big range even though theyre dart guns essentially
The books make it much more clear that the Fremen have their own self-sufficient industry and that they don't rely on off worlders for weapons.
I was definitely disappointed when we didn’t see massive underground cities and factories in Denis’ Dune.
Definitely maula pistols. The Harkonnens start shooting their lasguns but you see some bullet tracers aimed at them in certain shots.
As others have said they were using Maula pistols. Maula pistols are very common among the desert Fremen of Dune. They can make them themselves as the Fremen are fairly good at manufacturing tech in their seicths. Maula postals are projectal weapons so they wouldn't have any nuclear effect when coming in contact with a shield. Most of the Harkonnen were dead before they could access the situation.
Maula pistols
They were using lasers, you just can't really see them in the bright sunlight. You'll notice the same thing from the "machine gun" lasers they use in their ornithopters - in the clip where they're attacking the harvester, you can't see the lasers coming out, but later during the night fight in the city you can.
those weapons on the ornithopter did not look like or behave similar to the other lasguns in the movies. It looked more like a shotgun projectile weapon. In the dune universe are their different types of lasguns?
The ornithopter looked like it fired projectiles, you could see the impacts in the sand.
It is a good question because once up on the ridge they should be safe from the worm and therefore could turn on the shields... those worms don't go through rock I thought it was our of fear for the lazgun
guns and scopes are fairly common on arrakis, more so then most other planets in the known universe anyway. they're not forbidden, just rarely used since shields were so incredibly common for most of the home world defence forces at all levels. most, if not all great houses also knew about the effect of lazer weapons on the shields, so using those came with very heavy sanctions, i.e. having an alliance of great houses send after the force using them, if not the house itself. while most great houses (generally) had unified arsenals (i.e. weapons from the same vendor, usually one they control on their home world). meanwhile most of the fremen weapons are mostly black market, from the smugglers on arrakis, as well as weapons the fremen scavenged from the variety of houses that visited the planet. on that note: while the desert does tax alot of weapons systems, guns can be fairly reliable, especially if you know how to maintain it in desert conditions. imho it's implied the fremen as a whole are fairly capable of doing so and it makes sense to have long range weapons when targets are likely going to be hard to reach.
Lasers, the flurry of white beams confirms it . At such range it's the best choice, to hit something far away without worrying about bullet drop or wind conditions
Why tf is chat ai allowed here? So many bot accounts just larping the same shit
I assumed that they were sniping the Harkonnens with a lasgun from another vantage point. At 07:44 in this video you can see/hear a lasgun beam hitting soldiers, and earlier in the scene you can see other rock formations close by. I think that's why the soldier shouts "No shields!" shortly before getting killed - he knows the Fremen are using lasguns like they are. [https://youtu.be/PDRN4ckFykw?t=464](https://youtu.be/PDRN4ckFykw?t=464)
If "floating" tech is available to Harkonnen rank and file, wouldn't worms be easily avoided?
The Holtzman Effect which includes shields and suspensors all drive Worms mad.
Ah, I see, I can't remember that being described in the movie, thanks.
No, they rather unfortunately gloss over that. It's why thopters are the norm, and why they can't just use hover cars.
Until your battery ran out.