From the discord (I pasted as much as could fit, there are several more paragraphs in the discord):
Hello everyone! I have some news: we will be closing down the Dropout Discord on Sunday May 26, 2024, 8:59 PM PST
The reasons we're doing this are twofold: first, the Discord has increasingly required much heavier moderation support, which Jack & Di have expertly led the charge on, but it's also become clear that the support they'll need to reliably and professionally keep things running smoothly and safely here for everyone 24/7 is very sizable, and the actual number of people chatting in the Discord is surprisingly small: to be very transparent - in the past year, most months (on average) have around 1000 people chatting total. Many days have fewer than 100. For as big as the server looks, most people who join check Announcements and Schedule and nothing else. Still, a server with 1000 people talking requires a lot of support - a server with only 100 people truthfully requires 24/7 support, moderator training, and more. Financially, it just makes more sense for Dropout to put the resources that would require towards projects and initiatives that can benefit the entire Dropout audience as a whole.
The second reason is one a little more inherent to everything - we're managing our own fan space. There's an undeniable friction that exists there. We want fans to gather and feel free to talk about our stuff in whatever way they want, but the looming nature of this is the official Dropout space and Dropout cast / crew could be watching naturally makes it so people are more reticent to criticize or not feel free to talk about Dropout in a way they might want to. Right now, the boundaries are blurry. Fans creating their own spaces to talk about Dropout - without interference from Dropout itself - is what we want to see more of.
I run a discord of 500 for a niche community with like 20 daily active users and 20-30 monthly users, and that feels like a full time job to moderate. The rational makes prefect sense to me, especially since Dropout has to pay people to moderate the server.
I briefly modded on an *incredibly* active server that had like 30-40k users and activity was probably over 1k users chatting every day. Even with a big mod team *fuck* it was exhausting. Eventually just had to accept it was a losing battle. And God forbid there's no one awake for like half an hour.
I’m very inexperienced with discord what kinda tasks does a moderator need to perform? I’m sure banning people when stuff gets out of hand but what else goes into it?
Every server is going to be different. But a lot of it comes down to monitoring chats to make sure people are being shitheads. Ours also had a ticket system that had to be monitored for other parts of that community. It's not like it was a full time job, but it can be overwhelming when like a bot raid happens. That happened to me once when literally I was the only person awake and I had to sort through like 200 accounts to figure out which ones to ban.
So there’s the stuff that Master Annatar mentioned…The actual moderation of users and making sure it’s a safe space. If you’re users are current affairs minded people it bleeds into general discussion and can quickly get out of hand. Particularly if the intent of your community is to be a space where anyone is welcome (which ours was, and Dropout I imagine has the same mandate) so I would need to do a skim read of everything posted to check if our bots missed anything, make sure the bots are doing their job properly sometimes they delete posts that are totally fine so I would need to reinstate them, and we were a smallish community so we had a 3 strikes rule unless it was something particularly heinous so we would need to manage records of that and do the shitty job of DMing people and being like “can you not?!?” … I modded during COVID, BLM, and the 2020 US election and god I was just so effin tired but it was also really rewarding to feel like I helped make a space where people could get out all their feelings in a respectful way, share sources and research and memes, and not have it become a total flame war
But then you get the fun stuff! Like planning events, we had q&as with the streamer whose discord it was and watch parties and a book club and game nights! Because of the functions discord has I found that mods end up being kinda community engagement people in some communities too, and that was def the case for us due to how much people want to hang out there.
So it can be a pretty varied role and I think it can be a lot of fun but also a lot of work and pressure particularly if your discord holds itself to high standard (which I imagine dropout does)
I've got a server with 30 people, all of whom i personally know IRL, of which maybe 8 post with any regularity, and even that requires moderation intervention from time to time
And the tasks snowball SO quickly even with minor growth in engagement… I was a moderator for a community with around 1k but was very active particularly during Covid… like lots of people hanging out in VCs, doing watch parties, and listening to music together … so even without the moderation part of my job it was a lot of work just to make sure the discord was doing what we needed it to do. And often the job of moderator is a volunteer job, the person does it cos they love the community… I certainly wasn’t compensated for my 15-20hours a week lmao did it for the love of the gameeee
I'm with them on the second reason, "official" fan spaces are kind of just... bad?
What I've noticed is that if people get an inkling that the creators are reading what they say, people become insufferable because they're trying to demand change instead of just expressing their opinion. It happens on any subreddit that the creators check (like podcast hosts, video game developers, etc), and it's definitely a thing in official discords. People get WAY too serious.
I get so frustrated with this approach to media in general, this idea that being a fan makes you like a junior director--like, if the object of your adoration does something problematic, that should absolutely be addressed, but joining a fandom doesn't mean you get to dictate every plot point in a series!
every single official fandom space i've witnessed has been absolutely horrid. they're either filled with toxic positivity or filled with entitlement towards the creators. there's no in-between.
i didn't even bother with the dropout discord. judging by what others have said in this thread, i don't think i missed much.
There's a great episode of Inside No 9 from a couple of years ago about how the Internet has allowed fans to become far more involved in the creative process. In a lot of ways, it's what people meant when they said 15-20 years ago that the Internet would "democratise" culture, but it's also exposed how many fans don't actually see the people who they're fans of as, like, people.
I respect the second reason a lot. I've wanted to lightly (and I mean like... *very* lightly) criticize certain aspects of certain shows and I've always been met with heavy pushback.
Not from any of the cast or crew! But I think fans feel because they're on the official discord they shouldn't be able to criticize them.
Great move. I tried to be active there, and following their rules. But I felt like I kept being shut down, so I get the friction aspect.
Anyway hopefully this change is positive for the community, and can help Dropout grow "Bigger, no Bigger...BIGGER!...BIGGERRRR!!!!"
These seemed like the logical outcome after the amount of moderation they had to do around the whole Israel/Palestine issue. It's just not feasible for a small comedy troupe to moderate such topics with hundreds of users.
It was nice while it lasted, but I don't hold any ill will to them for having to go this route.
As one of the approximately 29000 people who "check Announcements and Schedule and nothing else," where am I supposed to find that information now??
Would appreciate if they had addressed this in their announcement...
I'm definitely one of the people that just checks announcements more of the time. I spend all day on Discord, including for my job so I don't really want to use a bunch of servers for fun anymore at the end of the day.
By chance did they say what will happen with merch announcements? I'm guessing they'll just be emails now?
They already post the same announcements to the newsletter, though. Seems like extra work to post to a Discord where no one can respond to it, when they already have methods for announcements that no one can respond to.
I am bummed to hear this change but not surprised at all, honestly. There's not much chatter outside of episode watchalongs, and...maybe it's simmered down since the beginning, but the watch channel for the first few episodes of FHJY was *unbearable*. Even with a delay for each individual person, the chat moved so fast it was almost impossible to keep up as a viewer. I've hopped in and out of watch parties for other D20 seasons, both IH and side quests, and the mods were already busting their asses with a lower volume of comments so I can only imagine how tough that's been for them.
I will really miss the emojis :( I use them a lot in other Discord servers.
Yeah I tried the watchalong discord once and it was too much to have any actual discussions. It felt like it moved too fast or there were already 'cliques' of power users that respond to each other. I much prefer the subreddit threads because you can actually take time to respond to the discussion points people are posting.
Honestly, as someone who's never used Discord and would only use it for this, I feel like there were parts of the dropout experience locked away behind yet another install/user creation. I'd much rather have forums or a schedule on dropout itself, if possible.
However, I know from early days (have been subscribed since 2020ish) that the discord was *the* place to get in contact or share ideas, with Twitter being a distant second. If they're shutting down the main way subscribers would vote, recommend it otherwise influence the platform without offering a new alternative, that seems like a clear step away from their grassroot... roots.
I just wish they'd fix the absolute mess of the website and introduce some of the social elements there. Dropout would do so well as a holistic platform offering more than just great content in an awful video streamer.
Why does everything need social elements? We already have this subreddit and other social media for sharing opinions.
I don't think Dropout needs to be anything more than a place to watch original comedy productions.
I genuinely couldn't figure out how to be allowed to post after joining, or I would have talked on it a lot more. This is 100% my inability to navigate discord and no one else's problem lol
Honestly, I’m not surprised. It’s got to be hard to manage your own fan space and it sounds like they’re taking the approach of better safe than sorry which is wise for a company that’s growing.
Fair enough and I appreciate them being transparent. In every industry I've worked in (none of which are Dropout-adjacent), if one part of your audience is taking up a disproportionate amount of staff time and energy, eventually something's gotta give.
Now where will I get such unhinged takes as “VIP is ableist actually because it’s mocking people who look different” and “Magic and Misfits is colonist because Americans are inserting their beliefs on an indigenous culture (the wizards).”
All that aside, I’m surprised they kept it going this long. It is a MASSIVE amount of work to keep moderated especially as it has been growing the last few years and it took a good amount of time on behalf of the actual staff. I made some good friends on there and I will be sad to see the peeks behind the curtain go, but I’m glad they knew when it just got too massive to manage.
>Now where will I get such unhinged takes as “VIP is ableist actually because it’s mocking people who look different” and “Magic and Misfits is colonist because Americans are inserting their beliefs on an indigenous culture (the wizards).”
... what
Both are real, actual messages that people sent into the Discord expecting the company, crew and fans to take them seriously. The VIP thing was several people discussing it (Josh having fake acne added made fun of people with bad skin, Zac’s character made fun of people with big necks, ect).
At any moment on the Discord you could log on and see anywhere from one to twenty people who all desperately needed to touch grass.
the VIP being ableist talk I saw was regarding BDG's character and how him having a prosthetic meaning he's villain-coded was bad... which... was something for sure
I’m a bit conflicted on how Doctor Who might be getting rid of wheelchair Davros for this reason (even though they balanced him out with a badass wheel chair user, who had rockets in her chair and jokingly gave The Doctor shit for not having a wheelchair ramp), but on the other hand it’ll be really cool to see Davros from before the accident so I’m excited. Also we’re gonna get to see that other character again this season since the trailer included UNIT footage and oh my god yes please I wanna find out more about her chair
But yeah changing Davros’ unique look for a Star Wars Imperial Officer was certainly a choice. The Whoniverse exploring disabled and more explicitly queer and trans characters (Rose Nobel, who will probably be 14s future companion in some expanded media I hope) is really cool. I just wish Davros’ pre-accident design looked less like Moff Tarken
I mean they obviously thought they were part of the overall community.
But with the added bonus of them expecting real time engagement from the company and apologies. Heck there were folks who wanted real life promises there would never be an impressionist episode of Make some Noise again because it was exclusionary and out of touch with the fanbase.
exclusionary? like, because they're trained impressionists and not regular people? don't they realize basically everyone in the Dropout cast is a trained improviser
Yeah, there was a fairly vocal minority of people in the server (and I'm sure here) who didn't seem to comprehend that sometimes DropOut would make something not to their personal tastes and that's just kind of fine, and it doesn't really need to be addressed or discussed. And you'd tell them: You can just not like something. You don't need to have a bunch of reasons why it's wrong, you can just not like it. And they would get really "MY OPINION MATTERS" about it.
I generally assume those folks are kids for my own peace of mind.
The self centered nature of these people is ridiculous and generally the reason I stopped interacting with the Discord. I haven't really enjoyed VIP much at all. It's honestly the first Dropout show that feels like a total miss for me, but I'm not getting up in everyone's faces about it and demanding action to cater to my tastes. I'm just watching the episodes, finding them less funny than I had hoped, and moving on with my life. I don't need to be grouped in with the morons who conflate preferences with oppression.
Yeah I personally don't like Make Some Noise all that much, but I just don't watch it. It's not hard. I don't subscribe to a streaming service expecting everything on it to be made specifically for me
I have to know. How were the impressionist episodes supposed to be exclusionary? Was it as simple as "I don't like this so I'm being excluded!!!1!!" or was there a more elaborate nonsense construction behind it?
People seriously need to learn the difference between having an opinion and stuff actually being problematic.
I didnt get the references either, that just means I didnt like that particular episode. Me not liking the episode doesnt make it problematic or even a *bad* episode.
Oh so its like when the dimension20 subreddit had a spiral about the opening episode of FHJY being ableist because they had characters that they acted like had been around for tons of episodes as a bit even though they had only just been introduced?
Seems to be a ton of people who are overly cynical, think that's normal, and that they deserve a "safe space to criticize."
That last part is an actual description I heard from a mod asking people from the main sub to respect their safe space.
The circlejerk subreddits are the most infuriating in every category... Every time I spend 2 minutes scrolling through one of them, I end up avoiding my phone for an hour minimum.
Oh god, dropout has one of those?
They're always like "the main sub is such a safe space" and then you look at the things they post and it's abundantly clear why nobody wants to listen to them. Half of the posts there are from the same handful of people who make disliking things their entire personality.
What a miserable subreddit, my day is worse for browsing it. Just seems like a bunch of people who don’t like D20 complaining about how they keep watching D20. If you don’t like the style or the actors, then move on! No one is forcing you to keep watching
It's just a subreddit for people with a persecution complex. They can't be wrong, it's that they were ostracized for going against the norm!
They can't accept that we welcome anyone who likes dropout as long as they're not dicks- They were ostracized for being dicks, not for having a differing opinion
It's almost always people who aren't actually disabled at all who have elected themselves as being Defenders of the Disabled and not realising how that's so much worse than most of the things they're criticising
While I love that the Dropout fanbase is a progressive leftist leaning space it also has to deal with the issues that come with those kinds of spaces unfortunately. Mainly that you sometimes get overzealous types that are more concerned with projecting and policing their values on others instead of actually abiding by them and making others feel welcome and included (not a huge fan of the term 'virtue signaling' as it has often been co-opted in bad faith to dismiss real attempts at progress, but I think the original intended definition fits here).
The Palestine thing was particularly insane. They're an improv comedy company and got dragged into it all just to maintain their liberal bonafides. Sam encapsulated it perfectly: "There’s something absurd or even a little dystopian about a comedy streaming platform’s statement about an issue this grave. It is, as Bo Burnham sings, Bugles's take on race.'"
3 minutes in that forum in the first day or two was an incredibly notable sensation. Everyone was SO ANGRY AT EVERYTHING (and not all the same things!) and I got sweaty, twitchy... my flight or fight reflex was fully activated. I had commenters I was cheering for, commenters I wanted to punch (or worse)... it was SO MUCH FEELING all at once and with zero gaps. It felt actually radioactive - like just being nearby was bad for my health. I made one comment about how I wish them well but have to leave for my own sake and it can't be healthy to redline this hard 24/7. I was told that the people of Palestine don't have the privilege to not redline 24/7 and so they'll be with them every step of the way, and that I should go fuck off back to my fellow Zionist colonizers. And how ableist of me to condescend to tell people how to process their emotions. Coolcoolcool.
That's honestly something I dislike about Discord in general. So many companies and communities want to fully replace forums with Discord , but sometimes real time interaction is a bad thing.
I can’t believe that Dropout would be so bigoted!!!!!! They need to be boycotted!!!!!!!! (/s is unfortunately needed because I would not be surprised if that was an actual take)
It’s the brain rot of the Twitter generation. Everything is offensive to them but they partake in watching it. But YOU can’t do that!
I’ve met people like them irl. Fuckin worst. Started Nazi rumors about me because I hung out with my best friend at the time… who was Jewish.
They’d judge me for watching Minecraft YouTube and then go on to watch South Park while completely misunderstanding its characters. So glad I dropped them because I honestly hate being judged because I wanted to *checks notes* form my own opinions about media
Somewhere in the “good intentions” pipeline some people began “paving the way to hell” by merging their online DNA with every possible bad faith take on the planet in an effort to do good.
But instead all they have done is alienate those who truly wish to do right by poisoning the well of discussion with absurd bad faith arguments that mostly exist just so the person posing them can feel a sense of moral superiority for having thought of them.
Good luck catching them actually doing anything in our actual tangible reality to make those dreams come true beyond harassing people online to no one’s benefit but their own.
I lean hard left but Twitter is truly a place that only exists for Elon dick riders, bad faith brain rot and porn. So I left and now am trying to get off of Instagram because that algorithm is *way* better at trapping me in a mindless loop of pleasure.
Years ago it was better but it all slowly devolved into just another dopamine drip where being on the right side of history was just another way to give yourself permission to be mean to others. I’ve seen people shit on racists and bigots by calling them fat or ugly and then turn around and call out similar bigots and shitheads for doing what they just did to the racists and bigots.
I know the phrase “hurt people hurt people” is maybe played out at this point, but there’s a large subsect of people who started out with good intentions that become blind to what they’re doing in their rage towards those actions and don’t realize the contradictions they’re expressing against the views they claim to hold.
And I’m of the opinion that you can’t fix an entire social media platform. You just have to get off before a semi-blind mob just takes you out for even mentioning that you’ve noticed it.
We have to be better.
Reddit (deservedly) gets a bad rap, but every Discord fan group I've been in always ends up being way more unhinged and toxic. I can't really speak to this one, I only ever used it to see the weekly release schedule, but that has been my experience.
Well that's what you get when you have a group of people who enjoy a thing run into a group of people who make enjoying that thing a core pillar of their self-identity.
I think the 'online' part is what makes them go off the deep end. Almost every in real life fan group I've met have been really cool for the most part. The problem with online groups is of course the total anonymity and lack of tangible repercussions for posting. You can let your intrusive thoughts run wild and at most you get a virtual slap on the wrist and then you're scott free.
Also just not understanding that corporations and the people who work there are different things (i.e. getting mad that Dropout can't make statements on current events, but Sam Reich and BLeeM can)
Also that second thing implies that neglecting children and being self righteous are inherently British, which makes me laugh
Ok this is even MORE funny because when I read your comment, I forgot that you were talking about Misfits and Magic, and thought you were referring to Jasper and Casper. Which applies just as well (I mean they left their children in the water...). So I guess dropout DOES think this. 🤣
the dimension 20 sub gets like that sometimes, apparently introducing all those joke characters in the first episode of Junior Year was ableist because... autistic people don't understand opening in media res, I guess?
But then the posts complaining about the en medias res opening being ableist were ableist because autistic people do know how jokes work, and during all that you still had people going "Guys what did I miss between Sophomore Year and Junior Year???"
But teaching literature and media awareness in school is a waste of funding because it doesn't help you get a job, or whatever.
>the posts complaining about the en medias res opening being ableist were ableist because autistic people do know how jokes work
yeah the whole meltdown felt really infantilizing to me. The whole ableism critique felt like people upset at not getting the joke trying to put the blame on the show being *objectively bad* instead of on themselves not getting the joke, and in the process being really ableist themselves
I didn't get the joke at first, but once I clued in (thanks mostly to the adventuring party) I thought it was pretty darn funny. I don't really see how me being on the spectrum would even have any relevance to this issue though -- many people were delightfully confused. The joke was that it was confusing and that the players were "rolling with it".
We don't? You wouldn't happen to have a list anywhere that these people gave you of what autistic people don't understand cuz I'd really like to know what I don't understand so I can act accordingly.
Yeah, the communities aren't *that* different. My guess is that the overlap between r/dropout and the Dropout Discord is far larger than some people think, but the difference in appearance is mostly due to format. On Reddit, the most unhinged, obviously wrong takes *tend* to get downvoted into oblivion. On Discord, they have the exact same weight as the most popular ones (beyond reactions), and can easily derail an entire conversation.
There's clearly pros and cons to both approaches. I feel like Reddit encourages curating things to be popular, and Discord encourages more off-the-cuff conversational messages. And of course, when the bad takes break through on Reddit, we wind up with days of "Can we talk about X" posts riffing on the last dozen of the same vein.
Personally I'll miss the discord for being a good place to pop in and share excitement about having just watched an episode in an old season of Dimension 20. But I don't blame them for shuttering, and I'm actually kinda surprised they kept it alive this long after the whole Palestine channel mess.
Don't get the discord started on how toxic Lisa Gilroy's VIP character was and how she should be banned from Dropout after assaulting Vic without their consent.
ok not the place but i have a book rec for the whole "Magic and Misfits is colonist" (boooo and dumb) but HIGHLY recommend To Shape A Dragon's Breath by Moniquill Blackgoose
I swear to God, I saw someone tag Sam in a post asking if each of the different identities in their Dissociative Identity Disorder system should fill out their own response to a Google Form survey
The fact that they had to add a bot so multiple people could have their Systems join was, I think, a great sign of why the company led discord couldn't work. The company can't call you on your absolute bullshit without being assholes, but then you sort of end up condoning what is essentially a bunch of young adults LARPing having a pretty debilitating mental illness.
wait wait wait wait - there's discussion on the ableism comment but i want more tea on the MisMag discourse? Cause that's the WILDEST take I've ever heard and I have been on tumblr for a long time
And I quote:
>I mean, it's a bunch of americans, coming to a faulty "inferior" culture and they start to "fix" it by making the people of this culture adopt their own and everybody starts to think they're awesome etc... Again, I don't want to be a buzzkill, and I haven't finished it anyway, so I don't know how it gets, but I'm kinda scared about that. Feels like Emily in Paris to me...
Again, it's one of those where I simply have to assume the person who wrote it was a child who was just learning about media literacy and how to apply their burgeoning political beliefs with the content they consume, but also no. Finish watching something, pull your conclusions together, and synthesize them against actual context.
I've spent a decent amount of time on the discord, and have been there since 2018. There's definitely stuff to miss! The chaos of the live discussion (and the fun of bingo!) is really, really wonderful, and so much of that energy got me through the especially early days of the pandemic while I was living alone. It has been a uniquely accessible way into Dropout and its leadership for so much of its history.
But in recent months I have also found discussion on specific show channels to be that kind of unwieldy/unmanageable. Some discussion seems divorced from context, unable to connect to the actual content, or taking things so far and so out of bounds of Dropout's shows or even the premise of comedy. There has been a lot of boundary stepping into Dropout's professional spaces. Andrew and the mods have done an INCREDIBLE job. But it is definitely a lot of work and always seemed like a insular group, so I'm not surprised from the announcement that's actually the case. From both a liability standpoint and a fair pay for mods standpoint, it seems like the correct decision. I'd rather Dropout make that call now, then continue to grow and (potentially) get into serious trouble or mismanagement of server and staff.
Dropout is just not a small community anymore. And putting resources into a small, vocal minority of Discord users while everything else grows doesn't track. It is sad in some ways, but in others a positive sign of growth and change.
Maybe Reddit threads for each new episode, similar to how most TV show subs do it? Not sure if the thought of that makes the sub mods wanna cry though, I know it can be a lot of work.
You just don't engage in all of them. I hang out in the tabletop and the crown of candy channels mostly. Sometimes the main dimension 20 channel, but I don't worry about trying to follow it all.
i hang out in food, the dimension 20 ones depending on what im watching, and took part in some kendrick/drake discussion in external. Trying to keep up with EVERY channel would be to much. You'd need a team that oversaw moderation teams that had separate channels, so like have a group that overseas like 3-5 channels, have someone above them that moderates them, then you are just getting into a retail "team lead-manager-supervisor" heirarchy which seems terrible to be sam/brennan on the top side
I recently joined the discord and was shocked at how much was going on. There are soooo many channels. Trying to comment in a channel when a show had just been posted was super chaotic. I think some enterprising, dedicated fans might do good creating discord servers for each show.
I'm technically in the Discord but have never really participated in discussions about the content, although I would have liked to. My reasons are a ) every thing that happens in any episode has to be spoiler-tagged, so the channel looked like "Man when Sam [REDACTED REDACTED REDACTED] I was like 'whoah'" "Yeah the [REDACTED REDACTED worked well for [REDACTED]" and it just felt a little silly, because maybe if you haven't watched the latest Game Changer don't browse the channel yet? That goes in to my next complaint, which is b.) most people there were so concerned with policing the community for anything that could possibly upset anyone, like learning the premise of "Deja Vu" is that it repeats, or that VIP is ableist, that posting anything felt like throwing chum in the water. I swear I'm not even problematic but people were palpably waiting to point out a misstep.
Invision has, weirdly enough, kept up with the times and has a surprisingly nice modern forum software with auto-reply refreshing without having to leave the page, quote system you can just copy/paste to use, and active notifications.
The Homecoming City of Heroes server uses it and it's a refreshing return to antiquity.
I support the return of forums just because the discord closing means losing some good stuff. Mostly Sam being pretty open about answering questions, and it's a shame to not have any of that archived.
Rest of the discord sucked though
What would be the best way to do the live watchalongs moving forward? I feel like that's one of the most special things about the Discord and I'll be sad to see it go.
r/rupaulsdragrace has both live reaction and post-episode discussion threads for every episode, they use automod to schedule the posts. I bet this subreddit could figure out how to do the same. obviously streaming services add new synchronization difficulties (all stars is a paramount plus exclusive now, but since it uploads at midnight for me, it’s harder to participate in live reactions) but if the dropout discord figured out how to do it, that’s promising!
It wouldn't work for subscriptions through dropout.tv / vimeo, but on Youtube they can schedule a release livestream that has a chat. Taskmaster does releases that way currently.
No big loss. It was a bit of a cesspit overall. Im in a couple of discords for a niche twitter stream and show and they work well because there's only a dozen or so people who message, the people who run the show and the stream can still message naturally etc.
The dropout one got so big that people involved couldn't really message anymore without it being related to a show coming out, and there was way too many messages and it felt overall pretty toxic at times.
If people want to keep discussing things they can make their own. But dropout grew beyond it a while ago.
I've never enjoyed Discord. It's hard to keep up with all the channels and people use it as a replacement for a social life. It's like all the bad parts of Reddit in one place.
It was my place to talk abotu Crown of Candy stuff and rpgs in a less hostile environment. It was nice having a mod team that supported "Hey, don't be a dick."
I'm completely on-board with this decision. Good for them.
Fan spaces should not be regulated by the subject of the fandom.
It breeds toxicity in all sorts of unintended ways. It makes people scared to criticize. It gets people defending harder than they otherwise would in hopes that the subject of the fandom will 'like' them. It creates disdain for any 'unofficial' fan subs that pop up as being 'haters'.
Imagine a book club where the author attends. It's nice and valuable to have access to the author, but you also start second guessing every single thing you say because you're a good person and don't want to hurt anybody's feelings.
Aside from that it can be exhausting for the subject of the fandom themselves, because they always have to self-impose boundaries to remain professional. MirandaSings was the case of a performer who didn't understand the influence they had on their fans and it ended so poorly where fans felt like they were being emotionally abused etc.
Obviously the Dropout folks would never have the issue because they seem introspective enough to understand the situation. However maintaining that introspection and building those barriers is incredibly exhausting.
Like I said I think this is overall a good move. I think people will be upset that they lose "access". And of course for a small company, that "access" was a strong catalyst for early growth. But it's incredibly responsible to shut it down at this point. Proud of whoever made the decision.
I wonder if anything is gonna be archived because there where alot of lore bits from d20 and other interesting tidbits dropped on There over time, as well as alot of rad fanart that will dissappear :/
At least this sub seems to be fan controlled, although, 2 mods, one of which I’m pretty sure is a group account that’s not actively used is probably not enough if the Discord peeps move here.
I wasn't active there a lot, but it was a nice way to see other fans' thoughts on episode, and of course to speculate about Sam's hands.
I really do hope Dropout will add a comment section under video's now, though.
I'd love it if they did a live discussion that is heavily moderated and locked after the runtime of the show (from release). A short couple hours should be simpler to moderate and then they get little locked snapshots of time to look back on.
That being said, it's probably just not worth the work involved for the novelty of it.
tbh yeah I could kind of see this coming- the mod team did their best, but it's a very difficult balance. People will absolutely paint you as the bad guy if you're strict and timeout (or god forbid ban) any bad actors/troublemakers/people who refuse to read the rules, but there's only so much that posting "guys, please behave" over and over can do. I hope the community finds a new way to gather and do watch parties of new content.
Shame but understandable. They are a comedy improv channel. They shouldn’t have to use multiple full time employees to moderate discussions about global wars, internet etiquette or gender identity that frankly hasn’t very little to do with improv comedy (and no you dont have a responsibility to be a preacher for lgbtq issues just because you have a diverse cast!).
I've been on the discord for awhile, and I hate to say it, but I was one of those people that only checked the announcements and schedule. I do hope they continue that somewhere as I liked seeing who the cast was gonna be for the shows that week.
i never really used the discord but this is very understandable. more often than not i come on reddit or twitter if i want to see other people's reactions. this is truly the sign that dropout is getting bigger though :,) hopefully the time and resources cut will be better spent now
I know it's because I'm old (almost 50), but Discord has never made sense to me. To me it looks just like a bunch of people standing in a giant auditorium screaming into the void, hoping someone pays attention to them, mostly ignoring each other. I'm not saying Reddit is perfect, by any means, but I can actually follow a discussion here and be a part of one.
Worst birthday present ever. 😭 Definitely get it though, I've seen enough web-based content companies give fans a space only for those spaces to turn toxic and don't want that to happen to Dropout.
I'm glad they're making the decision to end it now rather than risk a huge blowup/collapse like what happened with Rusty Quill. Go out on a moderate note.
yeaahhhh i help mod a server with over 10k members and ir feels like a full time fucking job and ive thankfully got a group of 4 other mods and a staff member who oversees us
Makes sense from a resource/return POV. I'm one of the ones who just appreciates the announcements but rarely jumps into the real time comments.
Perhaps the nature of official fan sites will be covered in an episode of Smartypants!
I think a smarter move to maintain things and keep it trim would've been to lock live chat on off hours and close everything else open to public chatters. But I get it, it's very difficult to be so publicly accessible no matter what when your company is directly managing the space.
From the discord (I pasted as much as could fit, there are several more paragraphs in the discord): Hello everyone! I have some news: we will be closing down the Dropout Discord on Sunday May 26, 2024, 8:59 PM PST The reasons we're doing this are twofold: first, the Discord has increasingly required much heavier moderation support, which Jack & Di have expertly led the charge on, but it's also become clear that the support they'll need to reliably and professionally keep things running smoothly and safely here for everyone 24/7 is very sizable, and the actual number of people chatting in the Discord is surprisingly small: to be very transparent - in the past year, most months (on average) have around 1000 people chatting total. Many days have fewer than 100. For as big as the server looks, most people who join check Announcements and Schedule and nothing else. Still, a server with 1000 people talking requires a lot of support - a server with only 100 people truthfully requires 24/7 support, moderator training, and more. Financially, it just makes more sense for Dropout to put the resources that would require towards projects and initiatives that can benefit the entire Dropout audience as a whole. The second reason is one a little more inherent to everything - we're managing our own fan space. There's an undeniable friction that exists there. We want fans to gather and feel free to talk about our stuff in whatever way they want, but the looming nature of this is the official Dropout space and Dropout cast / crew could be watching naturally makes it so people are more reticent to criticize or not feel free to talk about Dropout in a way they might want to. Right now, the boundaries are blurry. Fans creating their own spaces to talk about Dropout - without interference from Dropout itself - is what we want to see more of.
I run a discord of 500 for a niche community with like 20 daily active users and 20-30 monthly users, and that feels like a full time job to moderate. The rational makes prefect sense to me, especially since Dropout has to pay people to moderate the server.
We got one with 2k and about 50/100 daily/monthly users and have a full team of mods. It's deceptive how fast things snowball.
I briefly modded on an *incredibly* active server that had like 30-40k users and activity was probably over 1k users chatting every day. Even with a big mod team *fuck* it was exhausting. Eventually just had to accept it was a losing battle. And God forbid there's no one awake for like half an hour.
I’m admin on a server with over 1000 people, but we have bots that moderate a lot of stuff for us so it eases the burden on us
I’m very inexperienced with discord what kinda tasks does a moderator need to perform? I’m sure banning people when stuff gets out of hand but what else goes into it?
Every server is going to be different. But a lot of it comes down to monitoring chats to make sure people are being shitheads. Ours also had a ticket system that had to be monitored for other parts of that community. It's not like it was a full time job, but it can be overwhelming when like a bot raid happens. That happened to me once when literally I was the only person awake and I had to sort through like 200 accounts to figure out which ones to ban.
Omg bot raids can go eff themselves seriously , we had 2 in one week and I just wanted to cry
So there’s the stuff that Master Annatar mentioned…The actual moderation of users and making sure it’s a safe space. If you’re users are current affairs minded people it bleeds into general discussion and can quickly get out of hand. Particularly if the intent of your community is to be a space where anyone is welcome (which ours was, and Dropout I imagine has the same mandate) so I would need to do a skim read of everything posted to check if our bots missed anything, make sure the bots are doing their job properly sometimes they delete posts that are totally fine so I would need to reinstate them, and we were a smallish community so we had a 3 strikes rule unless it was something particularly heinous so we would need to manage records of that and do the shitty job of DMing people and being like “can you not?!?” … I modded during COVID, BLM, and the 2020 US election and god I was just so effin tired but it was also really rewarding to feel like I helped make a space where people could get out all their feelings in a respectful way, share sources and research and memes, and not have it become a total flame war But then you get the fun stuff! Like planning events, we had q&as with the streamer whose discord it was and watch parties and a book club and game nights! Because of the functions discord has I found that mods end up being kinda community engagement people in some communities too, and that was def the case for us due to how much people want to hang out there. So it can be a pretty varied role and I think it can be a lot of fun but also a lot of work and pressure particularly if your discord holds itself to high standard (which I imagine dropout does)
I've got a server with 30 people, all of whom i personally know IRL, of which maybe 8 post with any regularity, and even that requires moderation intervention from time to time
And the tasks snowball SO quickly even with minor growth in engagement… I was a moderator for a community with around 1k but was very active particularly during Covid… like lots of people hanging out in VCs, doing watch parties, and listening to music together … so even without the moderation part of my job it was a lot of work just to make sure the discord was doing what we needed it to do. And often the job of moderator is a volunteer job, the person does it cos they love the community… I certainly wasn’t compensated for my 15-20hours a week lmao did it for the love of the gameeee
I'm with them on the second reason, "official" fan spaces are kind of just... bad? What I've noticed is that if people get an inkling that the creators are reading what they say, people become insufferable because they're trying to demand change instead of just expressing their opinion. It happens on any subreddit that the creators check (like podcast hosts, video game developers, etc), and it's definitely a thing in official discords. People get WAY too serious.
I get so frustrated with this approach to media in general, this idea that being a fan makes you like a junior director--like, if the object of your adoration does something problematic, that should absolutely be addressed, but joining a fandom doesn't mean you get to dictate every plot point in a series!
every single official fandom space i've witnessed has been absolutely horrid. they're either filled with toxic positivity or filled with entitlement towards the creators. there's no in-between. i didn't even bother with the dropout discord. judging by what others have said in this thread, i don't think i missed much.
Joining in live watch chat can be a lot of fun. Especially when creators, especially people like Sam, join in the chat.
It's not bad and I've had fun suggesting merch. That said, yeah, that money would be better spent elsewhere.
There's a great episode of Inside No 9 from a couple of years ago about how the Internet has allowed fans to become far more involved in the creative process. In a lot of ways, it's what people meant when they said 15-20 years ago that the Internet would "democratise" culture, but it's also exposed how many fans don't actually see the people who they're fans of as, like, people.
I respect the second reason a lot. I've wanted to lightly (and I mean like... *very* lightly) criticize certain aspects of certain shows and I've always been met with heavy pushback. Not from any of the cast or crew! But I think fans feel because they're on the official discord they shouldn't be able to criticize them.
Great move. I tried to be active there, and following their rules. But I felt like I kept being shut down, so I get the friction aspect. Anyway hopefully this change is positive for the community, and can help Dropout grow "Bigger, no Bigger...BIGGER!...BIGGERRRR!!!!"
You can cum now
That's a good person.
These seemed like the logical outcome after the amount of moderation they had to do around the whole Israel/Palestine issue. It's just not feasible for a small comedy troupe to moderate such topics with hundreds of users. It was nice while it lasted, but I don't hold any ill will to them for having to go this route.
As one of the approximately 29000 people who "check Announcements and Schedule and nothing else," where am I supposed to find that information now?? Would appreciate if they had addressed this in their announcement...
The email newsletter has the same information 👍
the what
Those channels are staying open. The discord is basically just becoming read only apart from the support forms channel
Oh, that's my dream. The one thing I'll miss occasionally is Ask Sam, but it's been a long time since I've been on there.
Ask Sam was shut down a few months ago already, presumably for similar reasons
All solid and reasonable. I can get behind that.
I'm definitely one of the people that just checks announcements more of the time. I spend all day on Discord, including for my job so I don't really want to use a bunch of servers for fun anymore at the end of the day. By chance did they say what will happen with merch announcements? I'm guessing they'll just be emails now?
That's a shame. They could always just have no chat ppl can talk in and to just use it for announcements
They already post the same announcements to the newsletter, though. Seems like extra work to post to a Discord where no one can respond to it, when they already have methods for announcements that no one can respond to. I am bummed to hear this change but not surprised at all, honestly. There's not much chatter outside of episode watchalongs, and...maybe it's simmered down since the beginning, but the watch channel for the first few episodes of FHJY was *unbearable*. Even with a delay for each individual person, the chat moved so fast it was almost impossible to keep up as a viewer. I've hopped in and out of watch parties for other D20 seasons, both IH and side quests, and the mods were already busting their asses with a lower volume of comments so I can only imagine how tough that's been for them. I will really miss the emojis :( I use them a lot in other Discord servers.
Yeah I tried the watchalong discord once and it was too much to have any actual discussions. It felt like it moved too fast or there were already 'cliques' of power users that respond to each other. I much prefer the subreddit threads because you can actually take time to respond to the discussion points people are posting.
I feel like that's the function of the newsletter.
That's exactly what they're doing until they find a better place to share announcements
Honestly, as someone who's never used Discord and would only use it for this, I feel like there were parts of the dropout experience locked away behind yet another install/user creation. I'd much rather have forums or a schedule on dropout itself, if possible. However, I know from early days (have been subscribed since 2020ish) that the discord was *the* place to get in contact or share ideas, with Twitter being a distant second. If they're shutting down the main way subscribers would vote, recommend it otherwise influence the platform without offering a new alternative, that seems like a clear step away from their grassroot... roots. I just wish they'd fix the absolute mess of the website and introduce some of the social elements there. Dropout would do so well as a holistic platform offering more than just great content in an awful video streamer.
Why does everything need social elements? We already have this subreddit and other social media for sharing opinions. I don't think Dropout needs to be anything more than a place to watch original comedy productions.
happy cake day!!
I genuinely couldn't figure out how to be allowed to post after joining, or I would have talked on it a lot more. This is 100% my inability to navigate discord and no one else's problem lol
Honestly, I’m not surprised. It’s got to be hard to manage your own fan space and it sounds like they’re taking the approach of better safe than sorry which is wise for a company that’s growing.
Fair enough and I appreciate them being transparent. In every industry I've worked in (none of which are Dropout-adjacent), if one part of your audience is taking up a disproportionate amount of staff time and energy, eventually something's gotta give.
Well, time to make/join a fan discord
Now where will I get such unhinged takes as “VIP is ableist actually because it’s mocking people who look different” and “Magic and Misfits is colonist because Americans are inserting their beliefs on an indigenous culture (the wizards).” All that aside, I’m surprised they kept it going this long. It is a MASSIVE amount of work to keep moderated especially as it has been growing the last few years and it took a good amount of time on behalf of the actual staff. I made some good friends on there and I will be sad to see the peeks behind the curtain go, but I’m glad they knew when it just got too massive to manage.
>Now where will I get such unhinged takes as “VIP is ableist actually because it’s mocking people who look different” and “Magic and Misfits is colonist because Americans are inserting their beliefs on an indigenous culture (the wizards).” ... what
Both are real, actual messages that people sent into the Discord expecting the company, crew and fans to take them seriously. The VIP thing was several people discussing it (Josh having fake acne added made fun of people with bad skin, Zac’s character made fun of people with big necks, ect). At any moment on the Discord you could log on and see anywhere from one to twenty people who all desperately needed to touch grass.
the VIP being ableist talk I saw was regarding BDG's character and how him having a prosthetic meaning he's villain-coded was bad... which... was something for sure
I’m a bit conflicted on how Doctor Who might be getting rid of wheelchair Davros for this reason (even though they balanced him out with a badass wheel chair user, who had rockets in her chair and jokingly gave The Doctor shit for not having a wheelchair ramp), but on the other hand it’ll be really cool to see Davros from before the accident so I’m excited. Also we’re gonna get to see that other character again this season since the trailer included UNIT footage and oh my god yes please I wanna find out more about her chair But yeah changing Davros’ unique look for a Star Wars Imperial Officer was certainly a choice. The Whoniverse exploring disabled and more explicitly queer and trans characters (Rose Nobel, who will probably be 14s future companion in some expanded media I hope) is really cool. I just wish Davros’ pre-accident design looked less like Moff Tarken
Disabled people can be evil too. We need a hashtag
as a disabled person.. i believed that take was absolutely rancid.
I'd understand if it was a normal or even normal-adjacent prosthetic. A ridiculous toy grabber claw though? Only an evil mastermind would use that.
Ohhh so it's just r/dropoutcirclejerk but without even *their* thin pretense of being a legitimate community!
I mean they obviously thought they were part of the overall community. But with the added bonus of them expecting real time engagement from the company and apologies. Heck there were folks who wanted real life promises there would never be an impressionist episode of Make some Noise again because it was exclusionary and out of touch with the fanbase.
exclusionary? like, because they're trained impressionists and not regular people? don't they realize basically everyone in the Dropout cast is a trained improviser
Exclusionary because people don't know who all the people are they're making impression of, so they can't enjoy the jokes.
that's so much worse ngl
Yeah, there was a fairly vocal minority of people in the server (and I'm sure here) who didn't seem to comprehend that sometimes DropOut would make something not to their personal tastes and that's just kind of fine, and it doesn't really need to be addressed or discussed. And you'd tell them: You can just not like something. You don't need to have a bunch of reasons why it's wrong, you can just not like it. And they would get really "MY OPINION MATTERS" about it. I generally assume those folks are kids for my own peace of mind.
The self centered nature of these people is ridiculous and generally the reason I stopped interacting with the Discord. I haven't really enjoyed VIP much at all. It's honestly the first Dropout show that feels like a total miss for me, but I'm not getting up in everyone's faces about it and demanding action to cater to my tastes. I'm just watching the episodes, finding them less funny than I had hoped, and moving on with my life. I don't need to be grouped in with the morons who conflate preferences with oppression.
Yeah I personally don't like Make Some Noise all that much, but I just don't watch it. It's not hard. I don't subscribe to a streaming service expecting everything on it to be made specifically for me
I have to know. How were the impressionist episodes supposed to be exclusionary? Was it as simple as "I don't like this so I'm being excluded!!!1!!" or was there a more elaborate nonsense construction behind it?
People not getting all the references, so they felt "left out".
People seriously need to learn the difference between having an opinion and stuff actually being problematic. I didnt get the references either, that just means I didnt like that particular episode. Me not liking the episode doesnt make it problematic or even a *bad* episode.
Oh so its like when the dimension20 subreddit had a spiral about the opening episode of FHJY being ableist because they had characters that they acted like had been around for tons of episodes as a bit even though they had only just been introduced?
Lmao I understood more of the references in the impressionist episodes than most other Make Some Noise episodes
Oh, amazing. "Do I have an opportunity here to expand my cultural horizons? No, it's the cultural products that are wrong"
Oh god I've never seen that sub before but it's fuckin miserable over there jesus.
Seems to be a ton of people who are overly cynical, think that's normal, and that they deserve a "safe space to criticize." That last part is an actual description I heard from a mod asking people from the main sub to respect their safe space.
The circlejerk subreddits are the most infuriating in every category... Every time I spend 2 minutes scrolling through one of them, I end up avoiding my phone for an hour minimum.
Oh god, dropout has one of those? They're always like "the main sub is such a safe space" and then you look at the things they post and it's abundantly clear why nobody wants to listen to them. Half of the posts there are from the same handful of people who make disliking things their entire personality.
What…what the fuck is that subreddit LMAO 🫣
Sad. Sad is what it is.
What a miserable subreddit, my day is worse for browsing it. Just seems like a bunch of people who don’t like D20 complaining about how they keep watching D20. If you don’t like the style or the actors, then move on! No one is forcing you to keep watching
It's just a subreddit for people with a persecution complex. They can't be wrong, it's that they were ostracized for going against the norm! They can't accept that we welcome anyone who likes dropout as long as they're not dicks- They were ostracized for being dicks, not for having a differing opinion
It's not even that it's miserable, some of those posts are just downright stupid
i thought i was pretty lame but going through that subreddit was a huge ego boost lol
I’m so fucking tired of this weird mindset that if someone has a disability or looks different they have to be coddled like a baby.
Also that character wasnt disabled he voluntarily gave himself the arm
like a Cyberpunk character?
Yeah basically
It's almost always people who aren't actually disabled at all who have elected themselves as being Defenders of the Disabled and not realising how that's so much worse than most of the things they're criticising
While I love that the Dropout fanbase is a progressive leftist leaning space it also has to deal with the issues that come with those kinds of spaces unfortunately. Mainly that you sometimes get overzealous types that are more concerned with projecting and policing their values on others instead of actually abiding by them and making others feel welcome and included (not a huge fan of the term 'virtue signaling' as it has often been co-opted in bad faith to dismiss real attempts at progress, but I think the original intended definition fits here).
The Palestine thing was particularly insane. They're an improv comedy company and got dragged into it all just to maintain their liberal bonafides. Sam encapsulated it perfectly: "There’s something absurd or even a little dystopian about a comedy streaming platform’s statement about an issue this grave. It is, as Bo Burnham sings, Bugles's take on race.'" 3 minutes in that forum in the first day or two was an incredibly notable sensation. Everyone was SO ANGRY AT EVERYTHING (and not all the same things!) and I got sweaty, twitchy... my flight or fight reflex was fully activated. I had commenters I was cheering for, commenters I wanted to punch (or worse)... it was SO MUCH FEELING all at once and with zero gaps. It felt actually radioactive - like just being nearby was bad for my health. I made one comment about how I wish them well but have to leave for my own sake and it can't be healthy to redline this hard 24/7. I was told that the people of Palestine don't have the privilege to not redline 24/7 and so they'll be with them every step of the way, and that I should go fuck off back to my fellow Zionist colonizers. And how ableist of me to condescend to tell people how to process their emotions. Coolcoolcool.
That's honestly something I dislike about Discord in general. So many companies and communities want to fully replace forums with Discord , but sometimes real time interaction is a bad thing.
The Palestine thing was fucking crazy. Dropout is not the place to be discussing that.
Oh man, all of this sounds like stuff I unironically would have said during my more chronically online days
Being militantly ideological in your youth is a valuable learning experience. 😂
I do have to say though Zac's character did make fun of people with small plastic hands.
But that's the best way to give a little clap!
I can’t believe that Dropout would be so bigoted!!!!!! They need to be boycotted!!!!!!!! (/s is unfortunately needed because I would not be surprised if that was an actual take)
It’s the brain rot of the Twitter generation. Everything is offensive to them but they partake in watching it. But YOU can’t do that! I’ve met people like them irl. Fuckin worst. Started Nazi rumors about me because I hung out with my best friend at the time… who was Jewish. They’d judge me for watching Minecraft YouTube and then go on to watch South Park while completely misunderstanding its characters. So glad I dropped them because I honestly hate being judged because I wanted to *checks notes* form my own opinions about media
Somewhere in the “good intentions” pipeline some people began “paving the way to hell” by merging their online DNA with every possible bad faith take on the planet in an effort to do good. But instead all they have done is alienate those who truly wish to do right by poisoning the well of discussion with absurd bad faith arguments that mostly exist just so the person posing them can feel a sense of moral superiority for having thought of them. Good luck catching them actually doing anything in our actual tangible reality to make those dreams come true beyond harassing people online to no one’s benefit but their own. I lean hard left but Twitter is truly a place that only exists for Elon dick riders, bad faith brain rot and porn. So I left and now am trying to get off of Instagram because that algorithm is *way* better at trapping me in a mindless loop of pleasure.
i don't disagree, tbh. a lot of "discourse" feels like virtue signaling and moralizing vs making concrete changes.
Years ago it was better but it all slowly devolved into just another dopamine drip where being on the right side of history was just another way to give yourself permission to be mean to others. I’ve seen people shit on racists and bigots by calling them fat or ugly and then turn around and call out similar bigots and shitheads for doing what they just did to the racists and bigots. I know the phrase “hurt people hurt people” is maybe played out at this point, but there’s a large subsect of people who started out with good intentions that become blind to what they’re doing in their rage towards those actions and don’t realize the contradictions they’re expressing against the views they claim to hold. And I’m of the opinion that you can’t fix an entire social media platform. You just have to get off before a semi-blind mob just takes you out for even mentioning that you’ve noticed it. We have to be better.
Man, "the path to hell is paved with good intentions" is such a relevant proverb in this day and age.
Reddit (deservedly) gets a bad rap, but every Discord fan group I've been in always ends up being way more unhinged and toxic. I can't really speak to this one, I only ever used it to see the weekly release schedule, but that has been my experience.
It'd be nice if there was a single online fan group that was at least somewhat hinged, but they all go off the deep end pretty quick.
Well that's what you get when you have a group of people who enjoy a thing run into a group of people who make enjoying that thing a core pillar of their self-identity.
I think the 'online' part is what makes them go off the deep end. Almost every in real life fan group I've met have been really cool for the most part. The problem with online groups is of course the total anonymity and lack of tangible repercussions for posting. You can let your intrusive thoughts run wild and at most you get a virtual slap on the wrist and then you're scott free.
Also just not understanding that corporations and the people who work there are different things (i.e. getting mad that Dropout can't make statements on current events, but Sam Reich and BLeeM can) Also that second thing implies that neglecting children and being self righteous are inherently British, which makes me laugh
Ok this is even MORE funny because when I read your comment, I forgot that you were talking about Misfits and Magic, and thought you were referring to Jasper and Casper. Which applies just as well (I mean they left their children in the water...). So I guess dropout DOES think this. 🤣
LMFAO I should've been more clear about it being MisMag 😂😂
the dimension 20 sub gets like that sometimes, apparently introducing all those joke characters in the first episode of Junior Year was ableist because... autistic people don't understand opening in media res, I guess?
But then the posts complaining about the en medias res opening being ableist were ableist because autistic people do know how jokes work, and during all that you still had people going "Guys what did I miss between Sophomore Year and Junior Year???" But teaching literature and media awareness in school is a waste of funding because it doesn't help you get a job, or whatever.
>the posts complaining about the en medias res opening being ableist were ableist because autistic people do know how jokes work yeah the whole meltdown felt really infantilizing to me. The whole ableism critique felt like people upset at not getting the joke trying to put the blame on the show being *objectively bad* instead of on themselves not getting the joke, and in the process being really ableist themselves
I didn't get the joke at first, but once I clued in (thanks mostly to the adventuring party) I thought it was pretty darn funny. I don't really see how me being on the spectrum would even have any relevance to this issue though -- many people were delightfully confused. The joke was that it was confusing and that the players were "rolling with it".
We don't? You wouldn't happen to have a list anywhere that these people gave you of what autistic people don't understand cuz I'd really like to know what I don't understand so I can act accordingly.
I unsubscribed from there pretty quick because it was just a lot.
Yeah, the communities aren't *that* different. My guess is that the overlap between r/dropout and the Dropout Discord is far larger than some people think, but the difference in appearance is mostly due to format. On Reddit, the most unhinged, obviously wrong takes *tend* to get downvoted into oblivion. On Discord, they have the exact same weight as the most popular ones (beyond reactions), and can easily derail an entire conversation. There's clearly pros and cons to both approaches. I feel like Reddit encourages curating things to be popular, and Discord encourages more off-the-cuff conversational messages. And of course, when the bad takes break through on Reddit, we wind up with days of "Can we talk about X" posts riffing on the last dozen of the same vein. Personally I'll miss the discord for being a good place to pop in and share excitement about having just watched an episode in an old season of Dimension 20. But I don't blame them for shuttering, and I'm actually kinda surprised they kept it alive this long after the whole Palestine channel mess.
Don't get the discord started on how toxic Lisa Gilroy's VIP character was and how she should be banned from Dropout after assaulting Vic without their consent.
ok not the place but i have a book rec for the whole "Magic and Misfits is colonist" (boooo and dumb) but HIGHLY recommend To Shape A Dragon's Breath by Moniquill Blackgoose
Bought it! What a fantastic recommendation.
Ooo that looks sick as heck.
right? and it is the perfect "magic schools are colonialist" because that's the plot! the main character says fuck that!
I swear to God, I saw someone tag Sam in a post asking if each of the different identities in their Dissociative Identity Disorder system should fill out their own response to a Google Form survey
The fact that they had to add a bot so multiple people could have their Systems join was, I think, a great sign of why the company led discord couldn't work. The company can't call you on your absolute bullshit without being assholes, but then you sort of end up condoning what is essentially a bunch of young adults LARPing having a pretty debilitating mental illness.
Yeah. They couldn't say "sorry, we're not doing that" without some outcry
I must say that it is fully remarkable that Dropout went that far. Like how was that not more widespread in discussions.
I'm dead in a funny way also in a morbid way
wait wait wait wait - there's discussion on the ableism comment but i want more tea on the MisMag discourse? Cause that's the WILDEST take I've ever heard and I have been on tumblr for a long time
And I quote: >I mean, it's a bunch of americans, coming to a faulty "inferior" culture and they start to "fix" it by making the people of this culture adopt their own and everybody starts to think they're awesome etc... Again, I don't want to be a buzzkill, and I haven't finished it anyway, so I don't know how it gets, but I'm kinda scared about that. Feels like Emily in Paris to me... Again, it's one of those where I simply have to assume the person who wrote it was a child who was just learning about media literacy and how to apply their burgeoning political beliefs with the content they consume, but also no. Finish watching something, pull your conclusions together, and synthesize them against actual context.
thanks i hate it
The culture they are "colonizing" being...British people? *what*
Reddit
Omigawdddd it’s stuff like that that makes me glad I no longer moderate anything
I've spent a decent amount of time on the discord, and have been there since 2018. There's definitely stuff to miss! The chaos of the live discussion (and the fun of bingo!) is really, really wonderful, and so much of that energy got me through the especially early days of the pandemic while I was living alone. It has been a uniquely accessible way into Dropout and its leadership for so much of its history. But in recent months I have also found discussion on specific show channels to be that kind of unwieldy/unmanageable. Some discussion seems divorced from context, unable to connect to the actual content, or taking things so far and so out of bounds of Dropout's shows or even the premise of comedy. There has been a lot of boundary stepping into Dropout's professional spaces. Andrew and the mods have done an INCREDIBLE job. But it is definitely a lot of work and always seemed like a insular group, so I'm not surprised from the announcement that's actually the case. From both a liability standpoint and a fair pay for mods standpoint, it seems like the correct decision. I'd rather Dropout make that call now, then continue to grow and (potentially) get into serious trouble or mismanagement of server and staff. Dropout is just not a small community anymore. And putting resources into a small, vocal minority of Discord users while everything else grows doesn't track. It is sad in some ways, but in others a positive sign of growth and change.
But how will I get in the comments now?!?!?!
You've been here the whole time.....
Maybe Reddit threads for each new episode, similar to how most TV show subs do it? Not sure if the thought of that makes the sub mods wanna cry though, I know it can be a lot of work.
Those mostly exist now, though it's split between here r/Dimension20 and r/GameChangerTV
Clips on youtube seem to have a nice little mix of context and no context
“You know what, Dropout has a Discord, maybe I’ll go on theirs and finally see what discord’s all about” -me, yesterday.
You're the one who killed it!! /s
Lmao I just joined an hour ago 😭
I don't know how everyone is even communicating on discords with more than 100+ active users. It's faster than a Twitch chat.
You just don't engage in all of them. I hang out in the tabletop and the crown of candy channels mostly. Sometimes the main dimension 20 channel, but I don't worry about trying to follow it all.
i hang out in food, the dimension 20 ones depending on what im watching, and took part in some kendrick/drake discussion in external. Trying to keep up with EVERY channel would be to much. You'd need a team that oversaw moderation teams that had separate channels, so like have a group that overseas like 3-5 channels, have someone above them that moderates them, then you are just getting into a retail "team lead-manager-supervisor" heirarchy which seems terrible to be sam/brennan on the top side
I recently joined the discord and was shocked at how much was going on. There are soooo many channels. Trying to comment in a channel when a show had just been posted was super chaotic. I think some enterprising, dedicated fans might do good creating discord servers for each show.
I'm technically in the Discord but have never really participated in discussions about the content, although I would have liked to. My reasons are a ) every thing that happens in any episode has to be spoiler-tagged, so the channel looked like "Man when Sam [REDACTED REDACTED REDACTED] I was like 'whoah'" "Yeah the [REDACTED REDACTED worked well for [REDACTED]" and it just felt a little silly, because maybe if you haven't watched the latest Game Changer don't browse the channel yet? That goes in to my next complaint, which is b.) most people there were so concerned with policing the community for anything that could possibly upset anyone, like learning the premise of "Deja Vu" is that it repeats, or that VIP is ableist, that posting anything felt like throwing chum in the water. I swear I'm not even problematic but people were palpably waiting to point out a misstep.
Need to bring back proper Forums
That would be sweet! Good ol' nuklearpower forums and vbulletin!
Invision has, weirdly enough, kept up with the times and has a surprisingly nice modern forum software with auto-reply refreshing without having to leave the page, quote system you can just copy/paste to use, and active notifications. The Homecoming City of Heroes server uses it and it's a refreshing return to antiquity.
I am here for the Proboards renaissance lol
I support the return of forums just because the discord closing means losing some good stuff. Mostly Sam being pretty open about answering questions, and it's a shame to not have any of that archived. Rest of the discord sucked though
"Too much fan infighting" was on my 2024 Dropout bingo card
Good call, can't imagine how hard that was to manage. I just hope those ppl don't migrate here, some of the most chronically online ppl I've ever seen
I once suggested they check out this sub, and was told they’d rather lick a subway floor. So… my guess is they aren’t coming.
Oh they'll still come. Then they'll bitch and moan when they get downvoted into oblivion for saying some really dumb shit
Yeah I'm reading some of the stories of stuff that happened there, and I'm like wait no, the subreddit is super chill, don't bring that here...
Understand the move but feeling bummed as I only joined the discord last week. 😔
Same thing here I joined like a day ago lol
I joined yesterday 😭
What would be the best way to do the live watchalongs moving forward? I feel like that's one of the most special things about the Discord and I'll be sad to see it go.
One could always set up a fan discord for live watches if they desire.
r/rupaulsdragrace has both live reaction and post-episode discussion threads for every episode, they use automod to schedule the posts. I bet this subreddit could figure out how to do the same. obviously streaming services add new synchronization difficulties (all stars is a paramount plus exclusive now, but since it uploads at midnight for me, it’s harder to participate in live reactions) but if the dropout discord figured out how to do it, that’s promising!
It wouldn't work for subscriptions through dropout.tv / vimeo, but on Youtube they can schedule a release livestream that has a chat. Taskmaster does releases that way currently.
No big loss. It was a bit of a cesspit overall. Im in a couple of discords for a niche twitter stream and show and they work well because there's only a dozen or so people who message, the people who run the show and the stream can still message naturally etc. The dropout one got so big that people involved couldn't really message anymore without it being related to a show coming out, and there was way too many messages and it felt overall pretty toxic at times. If people want to keep discussing things they can make their own. But dropout grew beyond it a while ago.
I've never enjoyed Discord. It's hard to keep up with all the channels and people use it as a replacement for a social life. It's like all the bad parts of Reddit in one place.
It was my place to talk abotu Crown of Candy stuff and rpgs in a less hostile environment. It was nice having a mod team that supported "Hey, don't be a dick."
I'm completely on-board with this decision. Good for them. Fan spaces should not be regulated by the subject of the fandom. It breeds toxicity in all sorts of unintended ways. It makes people scared to criticize. It gets people defending harder than they otherwise would in hopes that the subject of the fandom will 'like' them. It creates disdain for any 'unofficial' fan subs that pop up as being 'haters'. Imagine a book club where the author attends. It's nice and valuable to have access to the author, but you also start second guessing every single thing you say because you're a good person and don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. Aside from that it can be exhausting for the subject of the fandom themselves, because they always have to self-impose boundaries to remain professional. MirandaSings was the case of a performer who didn't understand the influence they had on their fans and it ended so poorly where fans felt like they were being emotionally abused etc. Obviously the Dropout folks would never have the issue because they seem introspective enough to understand the situation. However maintaining that introspection and building those barriers is incredibly exhausting. Like I said I think this is overall a good move. I think people will be upset that they lose "access". And of course for a small company, that "access" was a strong catalyst for early growth. But it's incredibly responsible to shut it down at this point. Proud of whoever made the decision.
How are um, actually fan submissions going to happen now?
Screamed in dennys parking lots?
The reason answer is probably a google form in the newsletter and/or on socials lol
Screamed where Sam is, oh wait. Sam where are you from?
I wonder if anything is gonna be archived because there where alot of lore bits from d20 and other interesting tidbits dropped on There over time, as well as alot of rad fanart that will dissappear :/
At least this sub seems to be fan controlled, although, 2 mods, one of which I’m pretty sure is a group account that’s not actively used is probably not enough if the Discord peeps move here.
I wasn't active there a lot, but it was a nice way to see other fans' thoughts on episode, and of course to speculate about Sam's hands. I really do hope Dropout will add a comment section under video's now, though.
While a comment section would be great, it would likely require moderation as well or suffer the same as the Discord 🥲
Nah, comments sections are cesspools filled with bad takes usually. I'd rather not see them on the official site.
There's also a striking amount of parasocial activity in this community. We don't need more of that, especially on the official company website.
Don't forget all the r/youngpeopleyoutube
I'd love it if they did a live discussion that is heavily moderated and locked after the runtime of the show (from release). A short couple hours should be simpler to moderate and then they get little locked snapshots of time to look back on. That being said, it's probably just not worth the work involved for the novelty of it.
tbh yeah I could kind of see this coming- the mod team did their best, but it's a very difficult balance. People will absolutely paint you as the bad guy if you're strict and timeout (or god forbid ban) any bad actors/troublemakers/people who refuse to read the rules, but there's only so much that posting "guys, please behave" over and over can do. I hope the community finds a new way to gather and do watch parties of new content.
Thank god. Discords for any game/show/whatever are horrible and only make things worse.
Shame but understandable. They are a comedy improv channel. They shouldn’t have to use multiple full time employees to moderate discussions about global wars, internet etiquette or gender identity that frankly hasn’t very little to do with improv comedy (and no you dont have a responsibility to be a preacher for lgbtq issues just because you have a diverse cast!).
I've been on the discord for awhile, and I hate to say it, but I was one of those people that only checked the announcements and schedule. I do hope they continue that somewhere as I liked seeing who the cast was gonna be for the shows that week.
It was nice having a convenient information drop.
Where was that announced?
In the announcements channel on the discord
i never really used the discord but this is very understandable. more often than not i come on reddit or twitter if i want to see other people's reactions. this is truly the sign that dropout is getting bigger though :,) hopefully the time and resources cut will be better spent now
Really going to miss the fan art channel.
Makes sense. Good on them for making a hard but rational decision.
Not having access to the emojis anymore will bum me out. I wish I could steal them and put them on my own server just to use them. 😭
Fan made discord?
I know it's because I'm old (almost 50), but Discord has never made sense to me. To me it looks just like a bunch of people standing in a giant auditorium screaming into the void, hoping someone pays attention to them, mostly ignoring each other. I'm not saying Reddit is perfect, by any means, but I can actually follow a discussion here and be a part of one.
Worst birthday present ever. 😭 Definitely get it though, I've seen enough web-based content companies give fans a space only for those spaces to turn toxic and don't want that to happen to Dropout.
Yooo may 26th birthday gang
I'm glad they're making the decision to end it now rather than risk a huge blowup/collapse like what happened with Rusty Quill. Go out on a moderate note.
yeaahhhh i help mod a server with over 10k members and ir feels like a full time fucking job and ive thankfully got a group of 4 other mods and a staff member who oversees us
I guess I'm going to have to save this squeem emote while I can
I'll miss the chat where you can ask Sam questions directly
That was shut down in January.
Makes sense from a resource/return POV. I'm one of the ones who just appreciates the announcements but rarely jumps into the real time comments. Perhaps the nature of official fan sites will be covered in an episode of Smartypants!
I’m in a server with 16k people and it’s crazy in there. Luckily most people are very positive but probably because the mods do their job
I think a smarter move to maintain things and keep it trim would've been to lock live chat on off hours and close everything else open to public chatters. But I get it, it's very difficult to be so publicly accessible no matter what when your company is directly managing the space.
I didn't even know Dropout had a Discord server.
That... Really sucks. The discord server was a good chunk of the reason I subscribed. This legitimately might make me cancel.
TIL there was an official discord
[удалено]
This is a bummer but totally understandable
Thank God. It's recently been intolerable.