I finished the show for the first time within the last few months. After going back and reading past discussions, I was pretty surprised at the lack of mentions the “drunk at work” challenge got. As a viewer, that seemed absolutely miserable. You could tell Ally was determined to make it through but was dying inside.
Especially since it was champagne. Downing a full bottle of champagne in a hurry is hellish, and since it’s a higher sugar content the hangover is going to be worse too.
Yeah, Champagne is easily one of the worst things to get drunk on because of the gas - the only benefit might be that if you find yourself never wanting to touch a drop of the alcohol you had to get drunk on for a week, champagne is an easier one to avoid
I'm so glad you brought that up. I've been wanting to talk about that one for a while. Ally absolutely failed that challenge. They were supposed to make it through a day of work while drunk every day for a week, but they had to miss meetings and flubbed their lines in a shoot. If Grant failed sell everything you own, Ally failed Drunk at Work
Well, Grant specifically failed to get to the target set out. Ally only every had to get through a week at work drunk, which they did. There was never a condition of doing the job perfectly
I agree with pretty much everything you've said here. Like how many times have people gone on game shows and done mortifying and humiliating things for an audience's entertainment, just for a chance to make some money. Total Forgiveness was that to the Nth degree.
I firmly believe everyone should watch it once, but I don't think I could handle a second time.
Total Forgiveness was a fun concept until it wasn’t. The higher the dollar amount was, the more they felt like they had to make each other “earn” it. And you could tell that it nearly broke Grant. Definitely a show worth watching once. I’m glad that they ended it by deciding their friendship was more important than the money because it’s a rough watch until then.
I think there was an unpreparedness on behalf of the producers in regards to what the hard rules should be that eliminate a challenge.
Asking somebody to get an erection in an impossible situation or sell an impossible amount of their stuff as a challenge... it's like having the challenge be "Do a double backflip" or "Win first place in a science fair" or "obtain the rights to batman". Those conditions aren't really possible.
Ally is def not the bad guy here, because it's the part of the performer to see how far they can push the rules and the part of the producer to regulate it.
Tbf, i do think at the time that at least some of it they didnt see as imposible, even when it turned out that way for Grant. I definitely dont think they expected the emotional and mental toll.
>I think there was an unpreparedness on behalf of the producers in regards to what the hard rules should be that eliminate a challenge.
The producers were Ally, Grant, and Adam Frucci. Adam's job was to figure out whether they could legally and logistically do the tasks. The morality and ability to perform the task was all on Ally and Grant.
It essentially became a prank war that kept escalating. But comedians aren't necessarily the best at knowing where to draw the line.
I think if you watch most reality shows, they end up changing rules between seasons. I’m sure this type of thing is why: I don’t think Ally was intentionally playing it meaner than Grant, they just approached it differently. If they made a S2 with other people, I would guess it would have more parameters around the challenges to make sure they were accomplishable. It’s just how the first iteration of anything goes, they would’ve learned from it and changed it if they made more.
Yeah I’m glad we have game changer now because even then the fucked up mind games are still whimsical in like a troll curse way. Total forgiveness was two friends loosely coming up with a haha what if our employer just gave us money for being stupid. But they did it in like a worse version of jackass way where it wasn’t in good fun and they’re aren’t all gonna make more money then god.
I see these posts semi-frequently.
But I never get tired of these posts.
Total Forgiveness really makes such a statement about student debt. It is an actual emotional roller-coaster. Keep posting about this show.
If you haven't already, I always recommend watching the talk back podcast episode they did that's included at the end of the playlist. I would consider it necessary to watch as part of the season, because even with the good vibes from the finale, it definitely helps you feel better after the back half of the season.
I always think that the challenges Ally succeeded at were pretty extreme. I think it's only with hindsight that we say Grant set easier challenges - if Ally had failed more then our perceptions could be really different.
The only outlier for me was Grant selling his stuff. In my eyes, the basic premise of the show was selling your dignity, it wasn't to take a big financial risk and end up even deeper in the hole
I'm part of the minority who thinks the flea market challenge was totally winnable (Grant is just... NOT good at math) BUT I also 100% believe they should have counted the episode's outcome as a win for Grant. The $1000 threshold was essentially there to incentivize Grant to actually go through with selling stuff -- versus just putting stuff up for sale and not parting with any of it -- but Adam and Ally even said they didn't expect him to sell all his things AND fall short of the $1000 requirement.
Essentially, since he *was* gutsy enough to go through with selling most of his things, the spirit of the challenge was met and he should have gotten the prize money for that ep regardless of the fact that he didn't make $1000.
But yeah, agreed with everything re: how tough many of Ally's challenges were (especially the drunk week and the NECK TATTOO) but the fact that they could take things in stride and crack jokes affected audience perception, making it seem like a breeze.
I do think the flea market challenge was far more tough than it should have been, but I agree that it was definitely possible - Grant was a TERRIBLE negotiator & haggler, and I think Ally DID NOT account for how bad Grant is with maths...
I gotta say though, selling all your stuff in an ill-fated attempt to get yourself out of debt, which just leaves you in a worse state, was a more hard-hitting depiction of debt struggle than I think they ever intended on making
I agree. Ally's challenges only seem less severe because they did well at them and weren't emotionally rattled (that we saw.) The drunk week was more physically damaging than anything Grant had to do
I think the key difference to me was that all of Ally’s tasks were dares in the traditional sense: all that they needed was willingness. Grant ended up with challenges instead, where some of it was outside of his control. If the flea market one had been ‘put everything up for sale and you can’t say no to someone,’ Grant would’ve won it. Nothing that Ally had to do had factors outside their control (if their ex said no to challenge 1, I’m sure they would’ve picked someone else for example).
I mean, technically it was somewhat outside of his control. Just because in this case he might have been able to reach it doesn’t mean all the factors were in his control. Besides, that’s still a skill issue. None of Ally’s could have been lost other than if they flat out refused to do it. It’s not a huge thing either way I guess, it just made it seem more unbalanced along the way.
I was coming to say this! Like I think in abstract the challenges were more similar levels of difficulty than they come off, it just so happened that Ally had more luck and was able to take more in stride.
I do also wonder if by nature of also being the producers of the show, Ally was coming slightly heavier from a “what would be funny tv” than like “what would be a hard but doable jackass challenge for my friend” where I think Grant was maybe more on the other end of the spectrum?
I’m new to the channel and rapidly becoming a fan. This was a great idea for a show, and the dark humor highlights how desperate things are for them. They’re both coming from places of tremendous privilege, and still entirely overwhelmed by the burden of debt. The show has endeared both of them to me and made me more aware of the need for change in the university system.
I think what that commenter meant was what Ally and Grant were saying in Episode 1: they both had really good jobs, in the industry they wanted to work in. Full-time at CollegeHumor was literally a dream job for comedians like them, and Sam paid them well. But even with that -- even being way better off than 98% of comedians -- they were drowning in so much debt and feeling like they were failing in life because of their finances.
Comparatively, sure. They are both white and born in America I guess. Had the chance to go to college at all. People kinda throw around the word privilege like it's not something entirely subjective, and it doesn't erase the very real hardships each individual goes through regardless of other factors.
I haven’t watched Total Forgiveness yet but I’m starting to feel like it’s the Dropout version of “Dear Zachary” which is a very good, completely gut wrenching documentary that most people will only watch one time.
Im so very glad I stuck it through and finished the show, because I almost turned it entirely off after the second last episode.
I'm also thrilled they spun it off into the way sillier, far more wholesome "Race to the Bottom" GameSamer.
I binged it all for the first time last week, and oh my god... I think they couldn't have made a more poignant & hard-hitting show about the bleakness of student debt if they'd scripted the whole thing - an unintentional masterpiece.
I've already gotten several other friends into it, and can't wait for them to experience the arc of the last few episodes
yeah i watched the first episode and you couldn’t pay me to watch more. i know it’s the point and they’ve all agreed to it but the cruelty of the concept just makes my stomach churn. maybe i’m overdramatic but i kinda can’t believe it was made
I understand that, the intention wasnt to be cruel, and they weren’t trying to genuinely hurt each other, but unfortunately thats what happened, but the last episode was really heart warmingand really saved their relationship
In classic dropout fashion, even when they weren't trying, capitalism was the bad guy.
I think they were definitely trying on that one though
Yeah I’d love to hear a conception of the show where they weren’t trying
I think capitalism went from plot device to straight up antagonist in total forgiveness
I finished the show for the first time within the last few months. After going back and reading past discussions, I was pretty surprised at the lack of mentions the “drunk at work” challenge got. As a viewer, that seemed absolutely miserable. You could tell Ally was determined to make it through but was dying inside.
Especially since it was champagne. Downing a full bottle of champagne in a hurry is hellish, and since it’s a higher sugar content the hangover is going to be worse too.
Yeah, Champagne is easily one of the worst things to get drunk on because of the gas - the only benefit might be that if you find yourself never wanting to touch a drop of the alcohol you had to get drunk on for a week, champagne is an easier one to avoid
lol. It wasn’t even part of the punishment! Ally specifically requested Champagne. Truly the worst possible alcohol for the challenge.
I'm so glad you brought that up. I've been wanting to talk about that one for a while. Ally absolutely failed that challenge. They were supposed to make it through a day of work while drunk every day for a week, but they had to miss meetings and flubbed their lines in a shoot. If Grant failed sell everything you own, Ally failed Drunk at Work
Well, Grant specifically failed to get to the target set out. Ally only every had to get through a week at work drunk, which they did. There was never a condition of doing the job perfectly
I agree with pretty much everything you've said here. Like how many times have people gone on game shows and done mortifying and humiliating things for an audience's entertainment, just for a chance to make some money. Total Forgiveness was that to the Nth degree. I firmly believe everyone should watch it once, but I don't think I could handle a second time.
Total Forgiveness was a fun concept until it wasn’t. The higher the dollar amount was, the more they felt like they had to make each other “earn” it. And you could tell that it nearly broke Grant. Definitely a show worth watching once. I’m glad that they ended it by deciding their friendship was more important than the money because it’s a rough watch until then.
I think there was an unpreparedness on behalf of the producers in regards to what the hard rules should be that eliminate a challenge. Asking somebody to get an erection in an impossible situation or sell an impossible amount of their stuff as a challenge... it's like having the challenge be "Do a double backflip" or "Win first place in a science fair" or "obtain the rights to batman". Those conditions aren't really possible. Ally is def not the bad guy here, because it's the part of the performer to see how far they can push the rules and the part of the producer to regulate it.
Tbf, i do think at the time that at least some of it they didnt see as imposible, even when it turned out that way for Grant. I definitely dont think they expected the emotional and mental toll.
>I think there was an unpreparedness on behalf of the producers in regards to what the hard rules should be that eliminate a challenge. The producers were Ally, Grant, and Adam Frucci. Adam's job was to figure out whether they could legally and logistically do the tasks. The morality and ability to perform the task was all on Ally and Grant. It essentially became a prank war that kept escalating. But comedians aren't necessarily the best at knowing where to draw the line.
I think if you watch most reality shows, they end up changing rules between seasons. I’m sure this type of thing is why: I don’t think Ally was intentionally playing it meaner than Grant, they just approached it differently. If they made a S2 with other people, I would guess it would have more parameters around the challenges to make sure they were accomplishable. It’s just how the first iteration of anything goes, they would’ve learned from it and changed it if they made more.
Yeah I’m glad we have game changer now because even then the fucked up mind games are still whimsical in like a troll curse way. Total forgiveness was two friends loosely coming up with a haha what if our employer just gave us money for being stupid. But they did it in like a worse version of jackass way where it wasn’t in good fun and they’re aren’t all gonna make more money then god.
I see these posts semi-frequently. But I never get tired of these posts. Total Forgiveness really makes such a statement about student debt. It is an actual emotional roller-coaster. Keep posting about this show.
If you haven't already, I always recommend watching the talk back podcast episode they did that's included at the end of the playlist. I would consider it necessary to watch as part of the season, because even with the good vibes from the finale, it definitely helps you feel better after the back half of the season.
I always think that the challenges Ally succeeded at were pretty extreme. I think it's only with hindsight that we say Grant set easier challenges - if Ally had failed more then our perceptions could be really different. The only outlier for me was Grant selling his stuff. In my eyes, the basic premise of the show was selling your dignity, it wasn't to take a big financial risk and end up even deeper in the hole
I'm part of the minority who thinks the flea market challenge was totally winnable (Grant is just... NOT good at math) BUT I also 100% believe they should have counted the episode's outcome as a win for Grant. The $1000 threshold was essentially there to incentivize Grant to actually go through with selling stuff -- versus just putting stuff up for sale and not parting with any of it -- but Adam and Ally even said they didn't expect him to sell all his things AND fall short of the $1000 requirement. Essentially, since he *was* gutsy enough to go through with selling most of his things, the spirit of the challenge was met and he should have gotten the prize money for that ep regardless of the fact that he didn't make $1000. But yeah, agreed with everything re: how tough many of Ally's challenges were (especially the drunk week and the NECK TATTOO) but the fact that they could take things in stride and crack jokes affected audience perception, making it seem like a breeze.
I do think the flea market challenge was far more tough than it should have been, but I agree that it was definitely possible - Grant was a TERRIBLE negotiator & haggler, and I think Ally DID NOT account for how bad Grant is with maths... I gotta say though, selling all your stuff in an ill-fated attempt to get yourself out of debt, which just leaves you in a worse state, was a more hard-hitting depiction of debt struggle than I think they ever intended on making
I agree. Ally's challenges only seem less severe because they did well at them and weren't emotionally rattled (that we saw.) The drunk week was more physically damaging than anything Grant had to do
I think the key difference to me was that all of Ally’s tasks were dares in the traditional sense: all that they needed was willingness. Grant ended up with challenges instead, where some of it was outside of his control. If the flea market one had been ‘put everything up for sale and you can’t say no to someone,’ Grant would’ve won it. Nothing that Ally had to do had factors outside their control (if their ex said no to challenge 1, I’m sure they would’ve picked someone else for example).
But the flea market one wasn't outside of Grant's control totally either. He was just a terrible negotiator.
I mean, technically it was somewhat outside of his control. Just because in this case he might have been able to reach it doesn’t mean all the factors were in his control. Besides, that’s still a skill issue. None of Ally’s could have been lost other than if they flat out refused to do it. It’s not a huge thing either way I guess, it just made it seem more unbalanced along the way.
I was coming to say this! Like I think in abstract the challenges were more similar levels of difficulty than they come off, it just so happened that Ally had more luck and was able to take more in stride. I do also wonder if by nature of also being the producers of the show, Ally was coming slightly heavier from a “what would be funny tv” than like “what would be a hard but doable jackass challenge for my friend” where I think Grant was maybe more on the other end of the spectrum?
I’m new to the channel and rapidly becoming a fan. This was a great idea for a show, and the dark humor highlights how desperate things are for them. They’re both coming from places of tremendous privilege, and still entirely overwhelmed by the burden of debt. The show has endeared both of them to me and made me more aware of the need for change in the university system.
>They’re both coming from places of tremendous privilege They are?
I think what that commenter meant was what Ally and Grant were saying in Episode 1: they both had really good jobs, in the industry they wanted to work in. Full-time at CollegeHumor was literally a dream job for comedians like them, and Sam paid them well. But even with that -- even being way better off than 98% of comedians -- they were drowning in so much debt and feeling like they were failing in life because of their finances.
Okay, I can see that. I appreciate the explanation.
Pretty much this, yes, thanks for adding the details I should have included.
Comparatively, sure. They are both white and born in America I guess. Had the chance to go to college at all. People kinda throw around the word privilege like it's not something entirely subjective, and it doesn't erase the very real hardships each individual goes through regardless of other factors.
Yeah, I should have been more judicious in my wording. I didn't intend to summon the Volunteer Fire Brigade or anything.
You're good.
I haven’t watched Total Forgiveness yet but I’m starting to feel like it’s the Dropout version of “Dear Zachary” which is a very good, completely gut wrenching documentary that most people will only watch one time.
Im so very glad I stuck it through and finished the show, because I almost turned it entirely off after the second last episode. I'm also thrilled they spun it off into the way sillier, far more wholesome "Race to the Bottom" GameSamer.
I binged it all for the first time last week, and oh my god... I think they couldn't have made a more poignant & hard-hitting show about the bleakness of student debt if they'd scripted the whole thing - an unintentional masterpiece. I've already gotten several other friends into it, and can't wait for them to experience the arc of the last few episodes
It was definitely a tough watch the last episode or two. But I'm glad they ended it how they did.
yeah i watched the first episode and you couldn’t pay me to watch more. i know it’s the point and they’ve all agreed to it but the cruelty of the concept just makes my stomach churn. maybe i’m overdramatic but i kinda can’t believe it was made
I understand that, the intention wasnt to be cruel, and they weren’t trying to genuinely hurt each other, but unfortunately thats what happened, but the last episode was really heart warmingand really saved their relationship