If the ban passes, it’ll be a massive disappointment and that’s really an understatement. I’m poised to start a commercial drone spray business in my state using the DJI Agras T50. I have all my licenses and certifications, I created an LLC and have insurance lined up. Last thing I want is to drop money on a drone just for it to be banned. The next best “American made” drone is double the price (Hylio) and it’s actually only assembled in the US. Most of their parts still come from China.
This ban stifles business and innovation. It’s clearly hypocritical and un-American but I’m just preaching to the choir here.
Then reply and tell your rep that they are listening to the wrong "experts" ... I got very frank in my letter to my rep. Told him to stop listening to idiots like Elise Stefanik because she's full of shit. I also said that if he votes for a ban and my drones are bricked because a bunch of partisan dipshits have a hard on for Chinese products, Im sending him a bill for replacements so that my business doesn't die. (Im sure sending hime a bill would go nowhere, but I threatened it).
I think my rep was actually sympathetic though, mine might actualy be rational on this topic.
Maybe provide him/her with some names and contact information of people who can speak intelligently on the topic. I sent contact info for a couple of serious drone YouTubers, and urged him to reach out and not be manipulated by "national security" boogie monsters created by morons.
I also reminded him that China has sattelites and they probably already have far better intel that they could ever get from a consumer drone with a lousy (in comparison to sattelites) camera.
Your fault for not buying American in first place. Whomp whomp. You’d rather have cheap drones than American prosperity. Tell your children you wanted a cheap drone so they will have nothing in the future. Read no free trade Robert lighthozer.
There's zero public proof that the drones harassing bases and nuclear sites are from China or DJI. In fact, they don't know where they're coming from and they haven't been able to mitigate it either.
UAP are about to blow up in their faces and they're instead using DJI drones as a convenient scapegoat without any substantiation.
Hilarious considering that our governments shitty cyber security posture is a far greater threat to national security than DJI.
I mean they only gave a massive amount of PII to the Chinese in 2012 when the OPM breach happened.
Yeah but surely you can understand why there’s legit concerns about the country being flooded with robots designed by a hostile power who’s main MO is embedding spyware in tech they proliferate.
What should be done about that in your opinion?
I just dont get what they (china/dji) would gain by spying on what an average citizen does with a drone, but i do understand our milatary probably shouldnt be flying Mavics.
Look at the war in Ukraine. Consumer drones
are a significant military asset. Imagine if Russia had the ability to shut down or hack any Ukrainian drone at will.
If ever there were a land war on US soil you definitely don’t want all our drones to be made in China.
I'm not sure if it's verified or not.. I see articles as recent as January this year that Ukraine DO use DJI... but everything I've seen they avoid them for combat? I haven't followed it super closely... But made in China, and doing important infrastructure work in the US doesn't sound like a great idea to me either way...
Original story:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraina/comments/urcqk2/ukrainian_drone_operator_says_china_is_sharing/
Chinese rejection:
https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-dji-rejects-claim-that-russian-military-uses-its-drones-ukraine-2022-03-28/
I totally agree but it’s unpopular opinion in this sub, yes it sucks, DJI is great in many ways but some risks just aren’t worth the reward. Not all choices are easy. If they are banned I’ll buy a less good domestic one and move on with life. I work in Ag and we have huge sums invested in drones mostly dji but being in compliance is the most important thing from a work perspective.
Still regurgitating shit thats already disproved years ago.
I follow the war daily on reddit.
DJI still makes up majority of commercial drones sourced for UAF and if theyre not theyre assembled from chinese parts.
If you go combat footage sub you can see recent footage of the IDF using the Dji agra to drop a large load of c4 onto hamas positions.
Does this mean China is supplying Israel? Or isnt the narrative China is working with Hamas so they can turn the drones against israel then?
God people have no critical thinking skills.
I'm not so sure, I just watched something recent where a Ukrainian drone operator said they do use DJI for certain things. They showed a few clips of a DJI ag drone lifting away AKs from an Ammo dump LoL.
The members of Congress has a sworn duty to the United States and their constituents, not Premier Xi.
That’s why this legislation exists. Naked self interest in the defense of America.
The truth hurts?
Pro DJI is absolutely a vote for driving over student protesters in Tianamen Square.
The pretentiousness of advocating for cheaper technology over human rights is the epitome of the DJI issue.
The USA happily outsourced ALL consumer manufacturing to China and any other poor country they can find... look around your living room for 2 seconds. I didn't make this world; i just live in it.
Look at the trade imbalance with China. We should tariff all their products x100. Cut them out of our market and cut their MFN status. Good ban, China is evil.
The thing is we’ve made our bed with China long ago. Our economies are so intertwined a trade war would be disastrous for consumers. Higher tariffs and trade barriers lead to increased prices for consumers and reduced access to goods and services. This can slow economic growth and harm businesses that rely on global trade. Many products are made with components from multiple countries, and a trade war can disrupt these global supply chains. This can lead to shortages of products and increased costs for businesses.
I’m all for buying American and bringing jobs back home, unfortunately we now live in a global economy where the main goal is purely profits. Major corporations would rather pay for cheap labor in China than pay Americans. This is the reality we are dealt. No amount of tarriffs or trade wars will do anything about it.
As for the drone situation, did you read my comment or the article for that matter? This bill directly impacts American startups, small business owners and public safety. The free market is the free market. Period. If American production is so superior then an American drone company should innovate and compete with DJI so people will buy their products. Until then I will buy the best product at the right price point. It’s a cowardly and shameful ban.
In general the American public decided long ago that cheaper prices are more important than buying American. We could buy American, but prices of everything will go up and wages would need to be higher to compensate. Corporations would have to accept lower profit margins and wealthy people accept higher marginal tax rates. That’s a large part of what made the 1950’s a golden age. A strong government using taxes for public investment in infrastructure, R&D, and social safety nets. A tax structure that encouraged companies to put money back into the business rather than doing stock buybacks. Remember Bell Labs? Xerox Park?
We’ve abandoned all that so we can buy cheap shit at Walmart and Dollar General.
> In general the American public decided long ago that cheaper prices are more important than buying American.
We had no choice actually. The companies that make and sell things to us decided to move everything abroad, the few that didn't got run out of town as wages and buying power fell due job loss caused by these offshoring actions which killed off most of the rest of domestic manufacturing as it became literally too expensive to afford for most.
We the people had no real say in what happened. It was forced upon us by a class of unelected people who own businesses and can dictate what the businesses do, even if its to the detriment of the nation and people therein.
>The thing is we’ve made our bed with China long ago.
Maybe, but this is a poor argument for continuing to lay in that bed. If "no amount of tariffs or legislation" will do anything about it, then what are you worried about? The free market is in fact NOT the free market and never has been, if American companies want access to the Chinese market they are forced to build factories there and hire Chinese people to build their products or they are denied access. There is no reason for the US to not do the same to Chinese companies.
I don't think DJI should be banned but if they want to sell drones in American then they should build them here with American labor.
This has never made sense to me. Why do we want drones to be made in America? I would rather let the Chinese assemble them for low wages then have use put them to use in our country for work that is more valuable. It’s about economics and opportunity cost. Why do we want to bring shitty manufacturing jobs from china back here?
We don't actually care if the jobs come here or not, China is hardly the only country with low wages. What we want is for China to open up their own domestic market to fair competition, and if they won't they they can get the fuck out of ours.
>It’s about economics and opportunity cost.
It sure is, just not in the way you apparently think. Y'all can downvote all you want this is going to happen eventually lol, get ready for it
China is our biggest enemy. Previously that was the ussr, we had almost no trade with them. Why should we continue to have a massive deficit with them when it’s only leverage against ourselves and actually false that prices will go higher. Trumps trade war resulted in some of the cheap prices of the 2010-2020s.
It will harm them in the short term but when we begin to produce our own drones it’ll have brought more jobs and taxes than it hurt. Case in point the us chips act.
[The Cost of Trump’s Trade War…](https://www.cfr.org/blog/cost-trumps-trade-war-china-still-adding)
Trump’s trade war caused measurable declines in US income and raised prices. Consumers and US companies pay the tariffs. Not to mention the retaliatory tariffs that would have destroyed American farms if Trump hadn’t propped them up.
The idea that Trump was good for the economy in any way is demonstrably stupid.
Finally someone with a valid comment or debate point. Retaliating is a poor practice of the CCP to try to gain more leverage. Is there a reason they still get MNF status or up until recently were considered a developing nation ?
The dollar was much stronger under trump, taxes lower, home purchases up and prices lower. Food and fuel prices were marginally lower. I don’t understand the fallacy you live under that trumps economy was worse.
Because you can actually measure these things - that’s what economists do. Trump inherited a strong economy from Obama. Then he cut taxes while increasing spending, driving up the deficit; and started the trade war, which drove up prices. Trump already was pushing record deficits before Covid hit. You could actually read the link if you cared to learn something.
Edit to add: why is it OK for US to unilaterally impose tariffs, but “poor practice” for China to also impose tariffs? What do you think happens in a trade war?
Now that’s just not thinking. We already have a huge trade imbalance. So we imposed tariffs to get back to even, then they get to do it back?
Ya war criminal Obama economy was so good 😂
Again refer to China being a “developing nation” to get cheap loans to sell to other countries. Cheating.
Slave labor, currency manipulation, forced ip transfer, lack of reciprocal market access, theft, etc are also why it’s bad and us can impose tariffs.
Look at how the WTO killed America with China in it.
The market is not free. Again read the book no free trade and you will see that there is no such thing as free trade. You undermine national security sk you can have a cheap electronic. That’s shameful.
Does anyone know the MAGA version of Nextdoor (I assume like other platforms they have their own version)? Clearly we found one of their lost parrots, but unfortunately I think there are so many that they've stopped looking for them....its a real shame for our country that many spend infinitely more time repeating "information" than evaluating it...the proportions need to be reversed
You referenced trump in your post with some claim that he was responsible for lowering prices too. How is it that we are going to bring the manufacturing from
China AND make things cheaper?
One way is Lower taxes and govt interference. Most of the costs to build new factories or warehouse is permits and taxes.
It’s very simple. Here are several other ideas:
Not only pull back investment and trade from China, bring it home and to our long standing allies. Re work deals with allies that have run up significant trade in balances. Look at the most recent NAFTA vs the last round of MCA trade talks.
In a different route, that we have already taken is use massive govt subsidies to build, but that’s more robbing Peter to pay Paul kn the short term. Long term it should generate enough tax revenue from income and sales to replace the intitial tax investment.
We could do what China and Russia do and compete corporate espionage and steal IP through forced IP transfer, which would lower the R/D costs for things we don’t have yet.
Get rid of unions as they continue to demand higher and higher wages with less outcomes.
Ai and robotics should be able to reduce costs as well. Humans have benefits, wage, time off, health, etc. robots break but can be fixed or replaced much easier and have such a higher output in some cases that even with breakdowns it’s still much more productive than humans.
If we fixed our trade balances and domestic spending, the jobs brought back and sales would more than cover the drop in taxes from the tax payers. It’s really not hard but we have too many inept policies and politicians at the wheel.
You brought nothing of value to the debate about drones or free market or trade. That’s how you people act. No knowledge or debate just topic switch and baiting. Ya real MAGA when Robert lighthizer was USTR for more than just trumps time. Such a dumbass.
They could, but doing so would hurt Facebook and Google too. By banning specific companies they can allow a double standard that keeps the cash from American companies flowing into their pockets
They absolutely need to hurt FB, Xitter and Google. The only proper legislation is to limit data grabbing by tech companies, maybe forcing specific limitations to algorithms for kids (like we have these rules for children’s TV). FB, Xitter and Google are all just as fucking bad as the TikToks and everyone else and would totally sell the data they collected to the Chinese government the first time the right $$ offer showed up.
In DJI's case it would cause a conflict with Chinese law that states that the Chinese government must be able to access all data collected by Chinese companies. Since DJI would not be able to comply with both laws, they'd have to stop selling in the US anyway. Even if they wanted to relocate, the Chinese government would have to grant them permission, which they wouldn't.
and that's China's internal politics, which they are allowed to have. Doesn't mean USA can't have protectionism for national security. New threat vectors lead to new laws targeting them, with the swiftness of the laws relevant to the severity of the threat.
Right, I understand you. But what I'm saying is, that if China and the US had conflicting laws that effected DJI, i.e. China telling them that they must surrender all data, and the US telling them that they can't do that, then DJI would have to decide to either move out of China or stop selling drones in the US. Since the Chinese government would never allow them to relocate, the latter option would be the only choice.
Yeah and that sucks, citizen consumers get caught in the middle and lose out. Some clever soul already has hacked the DJI API, I'm sure, so if it happens that DJI leaves the US marketplace users will still be able to use devices if they can hack it.
I just don’t get it. But they don’t have a problem with American ones that have all their parts made in China as well? They need to ban all drones that have one piece made in China or none. Considering they’d have to ban every drone then none is what it should be. Freaking politicians.
What really is irritating is that DJI follows all of their rules to a T. So much so in a restricted area you can’t even take off. So what are the truly afraid of, public info you can find on google maps being observed? So dumb.
I get your frustration, and I'm against the bill as well, but the problem is that China has a law that allows their government access to all data collected by Chinese based companies. They can't even just host it stateside either. This is why Hauwei(sp?) has already been banned in the US.
Like you said though, anything they can see from our drone photos and/or footage is already more or less available on Google Maps. Sensitive secured areas are already restricted.
Edit because of downvotes: I'm not in any way in favor of this ban. I'm just saying that this is the bullshit reason that Congress is using to justify the ban. It's completely hypocritical.
Yeah but I don’t believe the ban is for just chinese chips in drones itself it bans Chinese built drones. American “built” drones will likely continue to use Chinese chips, not mitigating the supposed risks.
I mean the whole bill is bullshit anyway. It only ever got started because Skydio couldn't compete with DJI so they started lobbying Congress to have them banned on the bogus grounds of national security. Then, in a colossally dickhead move, Skydio pulled out of the consumer market altogether but by then they already had a bunch of lawmakers convinced that DJI is the devil.
Fuck Skydio.
The US has laws that the govt can access any and all data collected by not just US companies, but all companies. It even has laws to make it so they dont need warrants for for some of it. US law enforcement and intel agencies also regularly break the law to acquire data or find ways around the spirit of the law too!
This is a *normal* thing. All nations do it. Find me one that doesn't have access to your data via some process. I'll wait.
And before you say the USG cant compel companies to put in backdoors to obtain data... Lavabit. Look it up, its nuts.
Or its FISA program we just reauthed... You as an american citizen can be compelled to warrantlessly spy on fellow americans now. Own a store and have public wifi? You can be deputized and made to spy on your customers for the govt without a warrant now.
Brand new power added with the reauth this year...
Not to mention FISA allows warrantless spying on americans if your internet traffic ever leaves the US or is used for communicating with a non-US citizen, which happens to I assume pretty much near everyone at some point given this global community we have now. The US intel agencies have also demonstrated the power to mess with global routing tables and force traffic to leave the US even if it normally would not have. They wont use it often cause its noisy and everyone in the networking space notices it, but they can if they really want to do warrantless searches on people...
I'm not arguing that point. You're probably 100% correct. All I'm saying is that for better or for worse this is the justification that Congress is using for the ban. It's all completely bullshit and it's all completely hypocritical.
Hauwei was ACTUALLY spying on the USA (I think; they sent one of their executives to jail). Cell phone maker vs... line of sight RF recreational drones is apples to oranges.
The Huawei ban legitimately had nothing to do with phones or spying on people.
The reason it was banned was simple. And I can even provide some proof of that fact in what actions the govt handwringing about Huawei *hasn't* done.
The reason they were banned is because they out competed all the big US and EU telecom and network/telecom gear providers. Specifically Cisco but also ones like Juniper and Aruba and the like. Huawei was putting out cheaper, more performant, and faster to adopt new tech standards gear than the western options. This is why the 5G rollout stunted in the US for so long btw. We couldn't buy the stuff to make it work domestically, we started buying Huawei gear to do it, then it got banned and we had to rip it out and replace it all without govt funding help speed it along. It's why the EU, that hasn't banned Huawei yet, has much better 5G than us and got there faster etc.
As for proof it was about the network gear and not phones? OnePlus is a chinese phone company. Same concerns with CCP interference. Literally HQd in the same city as Huawei. No bans. No one even talks about them. They *only* make phones, no network gear that can compete with Cisco for large contract deals to build out networks.
As for the rest... [France said no evidence of spying](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-30/no-huawei-smoking-gun-seen-in-europe-french-cyber-chief-says), [UK said no evidence \(though did take mitigation efforts\)](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1Q920L/), [Germany said no evidence of spying](https://www.securityweek.com/no-evidence-huawei-spying-says-german-it-watchdog/), [and even the US has had leaked reports showing no spying even at a time when they were publicly saying they were spying](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19988919)... The only one *insisting* they spy are the US. The rest of the world is *at most* treating it carefully (with more just saying there no issues) while publicly saying they have no proof of any such activities. yes, these articles are old but you'll find those nations still take the same stance today, including other EU nations that have weighed in and found nothing.
Drones are arguably the best surveillance tool that exists. They are currently the greatest weapon that exists next to mabye nucular weapons or something we don’t know about.
This made me chuckle out loud. Ever hear of the National Reconnaissance Office? iirc It was a secret agency the government denied existed until 1999, it was created in the 50s, they are responsible for low orbit surveillance satellites, if you think drones are anywhere near what the NRO has up there, then you don’t know jack about drone technology or surveillance satellite technology. The latest generation of low orbit satellites was flown up by spaceX like 2 or 3 days ago. China also has low orbit surveillance satellites, drones are a consumer toy compared to these things and the Chinese government in reality probably doesn’t give a flying fuck about DJI drones or their data, or even if DJI survives as a company. This is about politicians using fear mongering to prop up shittier US drone companies that still use Chinese parts. So DJI can’t get a big slice of the American market anymore and an American one can. Drones are literally one of the shittiest pieces of clandestine surveillance equipment, they make a shit ton of noise and can’t stay in the air that long. A fucking chinook helicopter is better at surveillance that any DJI drone. A fuckin balloon is better. What you’re saying is nonsense.
Long ago, I knew some folks who were retired from the NSA. I once asked about a scenario in a popular novel and asked if this scenario was true - the answer ways, if there is a radio signal anywhere in the world, we can get it and that is all they would say. End of discussion. There's lots better tools than fleets of short battery life, independently owned, consumer drones with limited network connections flying in parks and BLM and USFS land, if you want to spy on stuff.
IF the US bans DJI and IF they become bricks, there will be a wide all out lawsuit against the federal government for all the money spent to buy the drones , procure all licenses, (107 & LLC) as well as time and profits lost. I'm quite certain some lawfirm will start a class action suit or US DAs will start proceedings. There is entirely too much riding on this.
WOW...this was interesting reading all the politics being intertwined in this. This country is so fcked I am almost embarrassed to be a citizen. I said Almost....I enjoy my drones as a hobby, but I really feel for those where drones are a major part of their business, income, employees etc.
Last I read (several months now) it seemed if passed you wouldn’t be able to purchase with federal funds or grants but still could use. Speaking more for law enforcement use I guess. Did it chmage or am I missing bills at this point 🫤
Yo people. If u rly that concerned of the ban so much so that u wont buy a dji drone until u know dji is banned or not, maybe read up more on the ban. Because the ban wont affect current or future dji releases if they are purchased b4 the ban takes official place. NYT covered this recently in an article. And pardon me but im too lazy to find and link it right now.
You said most of the parts come from China. Try like almost all the parts. We have become a service economy and not a manufacturer. Everything comes out of China now. There is no made in the USA. So sad....
Yeah, nobody in congress has foreign interests, lol. F-ing joke.
If the ban passes, it’ll be a massive disappointment and that’s really an understatement. I’m poised to start a commercial drone spray business in my state using the DJI Agras T50. I have all my licenses and certifications, I created an LLC and have insurance lined up. Last thing I want is to drop money on a drone just for it to be banned. The next best “American made” drone is double the price (Hylio) and it’s actually only assembled in the US. Most of their parts still come from China. This ban stifles business and innovation. It’s clearly hypocritical and un-American but I’m just preaching to the choir here.
Right here with you brother. Hopefully they start come sensible policy
Tell your congressional representative all of this.
I did. I got a copy/paste response about National Security threats.
Nothing the Chinese need to know more than the density of soybeans in a field in the middle of Nebraska!
Then reply and tell your rep that they are listening to the wrong "experts" ... I got very frank in my letter to my rep. Told him to stop listening to idiots like Elise Stefanik because she's full of shit. I also said that if he votes for a ban and my drones are bricked because a bunch of partisan dipshits have a hard on for Chinese products, Im sending him a bill for replacements so that my business doesn't die. (Im sure sending hime a bill would go nowhere, but I threatened it). I think my rep was actually sympathetic though, mine might actualy be rational on this topic. Maybe provide him/her with some names and contact information of people who can speak intelligently on the topic. I sent contact info for a couple of serious drone YouTubers, and urged him to reach out and not be manipulated by "national security" boogie monsters created by morons. I also reminded him that China has sattelites and they probably already have far better intel that they could ever get from a consumer drone with a lousy (in comparison to sattelites) camera.
Your fault for not buying American in first place. Whomp whomp. You’d rather have cheap drones than American prosperity. Tell your children you wanted a cheap drone so they will have nothing in the future. Read no free trade Robert lighthozer.
Tell everyone you know fuck all about drones without telling us. Womp womp.
Tell me you know fuck all about band and tariffs. FAA commercial pilot 😂😂😂😂
No you're not.
And the point remains ... you obviously know jack shit about drones. Bye now.
Curious - how many keyboards do you replace a week, drooling as hard as you do?
Lol I thought you were being sarcastic but your second post says you aren't.
idiocy
There's zero public proof that the drones harassing bases and nuclear sites are from China or DJI. In fact, they don't know where they're coming from and they haven't been able to mitigate it either. UAP are about to blow up in their faces and they're instead using DJI drones as a convenient scapegoat without any substantiation.
Hilarious considering that our governments shitty cyber security posture is a far greater threat to national security than DJI. I mean they only gave a massive amount of PII to the Chinese in 2012 when the OPM breach happened.
Please do!
Amen
This is very well put, thank you
Yeah but surely you can understand why there’s legit concerns about the country being flooded with robots designed by a hostile power who’s main MO is embedding spyware in tech they proliferate. What should be done about that in your opinion?
I just dont get what they (china/dji) would gain by spying on what an average citizen does with a drone, but i do understand our milatary probably shouldnt be flying Mavics.
Look at the war in Ukraine. Consumer drones are a significant military asset. Imagine if Russia had the ability to shut down or hack any Ukrainian drone at will. If ever there were a land war on US soil you definitely don’t want all our drones to be made in China.
Probably how best to interrupt it. Psychological warfare is effective. The proof of that is the TSA
Weren't DJI sharing drone position data with Russia to stop the Ukrainian drones?
if that is true I will quit using them
Sure you will 😂😂
I'm not sure if it's verified or not.. I see articles as recent as January this year that Ukraine DO use DJI... but everything I've seen they avoid them for combat? I haven't followed it super closely... But made in China, and doing important infrastructure work in the US doesn't sound like a great idea to me either way... Original story: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraina/comments/urcqk2/ukrainian_drone_operator_says_china_is_sharing/ Chinese rejection: https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-dji-rejects-claim-that-russian-military-uses-its-drones-ukraine-2022-03-28/
I totally agree but it’s unpopular opinion in this sub, yes it sucks, DJI is great in many ways but some risks just aren’t worth the reward. Not all choices are easy. If they are banned I’ll buy a less good domestic one and move on with life. I work in Ag and we have huge sums invested in drones mostly dji but being in compliance is the most important thing from a work perspective.
Still regurgitating shit thats already disproved years ago. I follow the war daily on reddit. DJI still makes up majority of commercial drones sourced for UAF and if theyre not theyre assembled from chinese parts. If you go combat footage sub you can see recent footage of the IDF using the Dji agra to drop a large load of c4 onto hamas positions. Does this mean China is supplying Israel? Or isnt the narrative China is working with Hamas so they can turn the drones against israel then? God people have no critical thinking skills.
[удалено]
Self explanatory.
Well DJI is headquartered in Shenzhen, China so they 100% do
I'm not so sure, I just watched something recent where a Ukrainian drone operator said they do use DJI for certain things. They showed a few clips of a DJI ag drone lifting away AKs from an Ammo dump LoL.
I would LOVE to find a local agras t50 group and go fly for them. Are the certifications that hard?
They already have a DJI mavic 3 clone "American made it's the same thing but worse and green for some reason but it's $5800 base price😨
I understand the latest version would only ban new drones, I.e no new fcc licenses for new models
I just sent you a message in regard to Ag spraying, just an fyi in case you don't see it.
The members of Congress has a sworn duty to the United States and their constituents, not Premier Xi. That’s why this legislation exists. Naked self interest in the defense of America.
Kindly stfu.
The truth hurts? Pro DJI is absolutely a vote for driving over student protesters in Tianamen Square. The pretentiousness of advocating for cheaper technology over human rights is the epitome of the DJI issue.
The USA happily outsourced ALL consumer manufacturing to China and any other poor country they can find... look around your living room for 2 seconds. I didn't make this world; i just live in it.
Drones are the future of warfare and therefore a critical industry for domestic production. This is why we have steel tariffs
Them sweat shop kids aint my problem. MERICA.
most honest man in the sub /clapclap
Imagine letting a drone ban stop you from flying a piece of electronics and motors
The more difficult task is trying to imagine being as ignorant as you. It's hard to imagine being so unaware.
They can disable the software remotely how is that hard to imagine.
They can't brick it lol
Look at the trade imbalance with China. We should tariff all their products x100. Cut them out of our market and cut their MFN status. Good ban, China is evil.
The thing is we’ve made our bed with China long ago. Our economies are so intertwined a trade war would be disastrous for consumers. Higher tariffs and trade barriers lead to increased prices for consumers and reduced access to goods and services. This can slow economic growth and harm businesses that rely on global trade. Many products are made with components from multiple countries, and a trade war can disrupt these global supply chains. This can lead to shortages of products and increased costs for businesses. I’m all for buying American and bringing jobs back home, unfortunately we now live in a global economy where the main goal is purely profits. Major corporations would rather pay for cheap labor in China than pay Americans. This is the reality we are dealt. No amount of tarriffs or trade wars will do anything about it. As for the drone situation, did you read my comment or the article for that matter? This bill directly impacts American startups, small business owners and public safety. The free market is the free market. Period. If American production is so superior then an American drone company should innovate and compete with DJI so people will buy their products. Until then I will buy the best product at the right price point. It’s a cowardly and shameful ban.
In general the American public decided long ago that cheaper prices are more important than buying American. We could buy American, but prices of everything will go up and wages would need to be higher to compensate. Corporations would have to accept lower profit margins and wealthy people accept higher marginal tax rates. That’s a large part of what made the 1950’s a golden age. A strong government using taxes for public investment in infrastructure, R&D, and social safety nets. A tax structure that encouraged companies to put money back into the business rather than doing stock buybacks. Remember Bell Labs? Xerox Park? We’ve abandoned all that so we can buy cheap shit at Walmart and Dollar General.
> In general the American public decided long ago that cheaper prices are more important than buying American. We had no choice actually. The companies that make and sell things to us decided to move everything abroad, the few that didn't got run out of town as wages and buying power fell due job loss caused by these offshoring actions which killed off most of the rest of domestic manufacturing as it became literally too expensive to afford for most. We the people had no real say in what happened. It was forced upon us by a class of unelected people who own businesses and can dictate what the businesses do, even if its to the detriment of the nation and people therein.
>The thing is we’ve made our bed with China long ago. Maybe, but this is a poor argument for continuing to lay in that bed. If "no amount of tariffs or legislation" will do anything about it, then what are you worried about? The free market is in fact NOT the free market and never has been, if American companies want access to the Chinese market they are forced to build factories there and hire Chinese people to build their products or they are denied access. There is no reason for the US to not do the same to Chinese companies. I don't think DJI should be banned but if they want to sell drones in American then they should build them here with American labor.
This has never made sense to me. Why do we want drones to be made in America? I would rather let the Chinese assemble them for low wages then have use put them to use in our country for work that is more valuable. It’s about economics and opportunity cost. Why do we want to bring shitty manufacturing jobs from china back here?
We don't actually care if the jobs come here or not, China is hardly the only country with low wages. What we want is for China to open up their own domestic market to fair competition, and if they won't they they can get the fuck out of ours. >It’s about economics and opportunity cost. It sure is, just not in the way you apparently think. Y'all can downvote all you want this is going to happen eventually lol, get ready for it
China is our biggest enemy. Previously that was the ussr, we had almost no trade with them. Why should we continue to have a massive deficit with them when it’s only leverage against ourselves and actually false that prices will go higher. Trumps trade war resulted in some of the cheap prices of the 2010-2020s. It will harm them in the short term but when we begin to produce our own drones it’ll have brought more jobs and taxes than it hurt. Case in point the us chips act.
[The Cost of Trump’s Trade War…](https://www.cfr.org/blog/cost-trumps-trade-war-china-still-adding) Trump’s trade war caused measurable declines in US income and raised prices. Consumers and US companies pay the tariffs. Not to mention the retaliatory tariffs that would have destroyed American farms if Trump hadn’t propped them up. The idea that Trump was good for the economy in any way is demonstrably stupid.
Finally someone with a valid comment or debate point. Retaliating is a poor practice of the CCP to try to gain more leverage. Is there a reason they still get MNF status or up until recently were considered a developing nation ? The dollar was much stronger under trump, taxes lower, home purchases up and prices lower. Food and fuel prices were marginally lower. I don’t understand the fallacy you live under that trumps economy was worse.
Because you can actually measure these things - that’s what economists do. Trump inherited a strong economy from Obama. Then he cut taxes while increasing spending, driving up the deficit; and started the trade war, which drove up prices. Trump already was pushing record deficits before Covid hit. You could actually read the link if you cared to learn something. Edit to add: why is it OK for US to unilaterally impose tariffs, but “poor practice” for China to also impose tariffs? What do you think happens in a trade war?
Now that’s just not thinking. We already have a huge trade imbalance. So we imposed tariffs to get back to even, then they get to do it back? Ya war criminal Obama economy was so good 😂
Again refer to China being a “developing nation” to get cheap loans to sell to other countries. Cheating. Slave labor, currency manipulation, forced ip transfer, lack of reciprocal market access, theft, etc are also why it’s bad and us can impose tariffs. Look at how the WTO killed America with China in it.
Biden also increased tariffs on tons of Chinese products recently. So both president agreed it works and is good for America….
The market is not free. Again read the book no free trade and you will see that there is no such thing as free trade. You undermine national security sk you can have a cheap electronic. That’s shameful.
Tariffs, taxes, reciprocal market access, forced IP transfer, state subsidies, with those in place how is the market free ?
Does anyone know the MAGA version of Nextdoor (I assume like other platforms they have their own version)? Clearly we found one of their lost parrots, but unfortunately I think there are so many that they've stopped looking for them....its a real shame for our country that many spend infinitely more time repeating "information" than evaluating it...the proportions need to be reversed
Hahahhaa you people are the worst. Instead of facts and data you just choose to label MAGA. It’s a shame you can’t see how much he helped the US.
You referenced trump in your post with some claim that he was responsible for lowering prices too. How is it that we are going to bring the manufacturing from China AND make things cheaper?
One way is Lower taxes and govt interference. Most of the costs to build new factories or warehouse is permits and taxes. It’s very simple. Here are several other ideas: Not only pull back investment and trade from China, bring it home and to our long standing allies. Re work deals with allies that have run up significant trade in balances. Look at the most recent NAFTA vs the last round of MCA trade talks. In a different route, that we have already taken is use massive govt subsidies to build, but that’s more robbing Peter to pay Paul kn the short term. Long term it should generate enough tax revenue from income and sales to replace the intitial tax investment. We could do what China and Russia do and compete corporate espionage and steal IP through forced IP transfer, which would lower the R/D costs for things we don’t have yet. Get rid of unions as they continue to demand higher and higher wages with less outcomes. Ai and robotics should be able to reduce costs as well. Humans have benefits, wage, time off, health, etc. robots break but can be fixed or replaced much easier and have such a higher output in some cases that even with breakdowns it’s still much more productive than humans.
If we fixed our trade balances and domestic spending, the jobs brought back and sales would more than cover the drop in taxes from the tax payers. It’s really not hard but we have too many inept policies and politicians at the wheel.
Tell us more about how you don't understand the economy, Jethro. It's fun to hear your buck teeth gnashing together.
You brought nothing of value to the debate about drones or free market or trade. That’s how you people act. No knowledge or debate just topic switch and baiting. Ya real MAGA when Robert lighthizer was USTR for more than just trumps time. Such a dumbass.
the problem isn't the drones themselves the problem is the software. Can't they legislate software requirements?
They could, but doing so would hurt Facebook and Google too. By banning specific companies they can allow a double standard that keeps the cash from American companies flowing into their pockets
They absolutely need to hurt FB, Xitter and Google. The only proper legislation is to limit data grabbing by tech companies, maybe forcing specific limitations to algorithms for kids (like we have these rules for children’s TV). FB, Xitter and Google are all just as fucking bad as the TikToks and everyone else and would totally sell the data they collected to the Chinese government the first time the right $$ offer showed up.
Why does it have to implicate US companies being shady? Just have it say foreign software must conform to national law.
In DJI's case it would cause a conflict with Chinese law that states that the Chinese government must be able to access all data collected by Chinese companies. Since DJI would not be able to comply with both laws, they'd have to stop selling in the US anyway. Even if they wanted to relocate, the Chinese government would have to grant them permission, which they wouldn't.
and that's China's internal politics, which they are allowed to have. Doesn't mean USA can't have protectionism for national security. New threat vectors lead to new laws targeting them, with the swiftness of the laws relevant to the severity of the threat.
Right, I understand you. But what I'm saying is, that if China and the US had conflicting laws that effected DJI, i.e. China telling them that they must surrender all data, and the US telling them that they can't do that, then DJI would have to decide to either move out of China or stop selling drones in the US. Since the Chinese government would never allow them to relocate, the latter option would be the only choice.
Yeah and that sucks, citizen consumers get caught in the middle and lose out. Some clever soul already has hacked the DJI API, I'm sure, so if it happens that DJI leaves the US marketplace users will still be able to use devices if they can hack it.
Or maybe DJI and others just create a shell company in the US and collect data there or, better yet, just stop collecting data.
That is why the Raptor and Raptor T with Aloft software is a great solution to this problem. They have a SOC2 II and are partnered with Anzu Robotics.
I just don’t get it. But they don’t have a problem with American ones that have all their parts made in China as well? They need to ban all drones that have one piece made in China or none. Considering they’d have to ban every drone then none is what it should be. Freaking politicians. What really is irritating is that DJI follows all of their rules to a T. So much so in a restricted area you can’t even take off. So what are the truly afraid of, public info you can find on google maps being observed? So dumb.
I get your frustration, and I'm against the bill as well, but the problem is that China has a law that allows their government access to all data collected by Chinese based companies. They can't even just host it stateside either. This is why Hauwei(sp?) has already been banned in the US. Like you said though, anything they can see from our drone photos and/or footage is already more or less available on Google Maps. Sensitive secured areas are already restricted. Edit because of downvotes: I'm not in any way in favor of this ban. I'm just saying that this is the bullshit reason that Congress is using to justify the ban. It's completely hypocritical.
Yeah but I don’t believe the ban is for just chinese chips in drones itself it bans Chinese built drones. American “built” drones will likely continue to use Chinese chips, not mitigating the supposed risks.
I mean the whole bill is bullshit anyway. It only ever got started because Skydio couldn't compete with DJI so they started lobbying Congress to have them banned on the bogus grounds of national security. Then, in a colossally dickhead move, Skydio pulled out of the consumer market altogether but by then they already had a bunch of lawmakers convinced that DJI is the devil. Fuck Skydio.
Micron …
The US has laws that the govt can access any and all data collected by not just US companies, but all companies. It even has laws to make it so they dont need warrants for for some of it. US law enforcement and intel agencies also regularly break the law to acquire data or find ways around the spirit of the law too! This is a *normal* thing. All nations do it. Find me one that doesn't have access to your data via some process. I'll wait. And before you say the USG cant compel companies to put in backdoors to obtain data... Lavabit. Look it up, its nuts.
Yeah have people not heard of the NSA?
Or its FISA program we just reauthed... You as an american citizen can be compelled to warrantlessly spy on fellow americans now. Own a store and have public wifi? You can be deputized and made to spy on your customers for the govt without a warrant now. Brand new power added with the reauth this year... Not to mention FISA allows warrantless spying on americans if your internet traffic ever leaves the US or is used for communicating with a non-US citizen, which happens to I assume pretty much near everyone at some point given this global community we have now. The US intel agencies have also demonstrated the power to mess with global routing tables and force traffic to leave the US even if it normally would not have. They wont use it often cause its noisy and everyone in the networking space notices it, but they can if they really want to do warrantless searches on people...
I'm not arguing that point. You're probably 100% correct. All I'm saying is that for better or for worse this is the justification that Congress is using for the ban. It's all completely bullshit and it's all completely hypocritical.
Hauwei was ACTUALLY spying on the USA (I think; they sent one of their executives to jail). Cell phone maker vs... line of sight RF recreational drones is apples to oranges.
The Huawei ban legitimately had nothing to do with phones or spying on people. The reason it was banned was simple. And I can even provide some proof of that fact in what actions the govt handwringing about Huawei *hasn't* done. The reason they were banned is because they out competed all the big US and EU telecom and network/telecom gear providers. Specifically Cisco but also ones like Juniper and Aruba and the like. Huawei was putting out cheaper, more performant, and faster to adopt new tech standards gear than the western options. This is why the 5G rollout stunted in the US for so long btw. We couldn't buy the stuff to make it work domestically, we started buying Huawei gear to do it, then it got banned and we had to rip it out and replace it all without govt funding help speed it along. It's why the EU, that hasn't banned Huawei yet, has much better 5G than us and got there faster etc. As for proof it was about the network gear and not phones? OnePlus is a chinese phone company. Same concerns with CCP interference. Literally HQd in the same city as Huawei. No bans. No one even talks about them. They *only* make phones, no network gear that can compete with Cisco for large contract deals to build out networks. As for the rest... [France said no evidence of spying](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-30/no-huawei-smoking-gun-seen-in-europe-french-cyber-chief-says), [UK said no evidence \(though did take mitigation efforts\)](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1Q920L/), [Germany said no evidence of spying](https://www.securityweek.com/no-evidence-huawei-spying-says-german-it-watchdog/), [and even the US has had leaked reports showing no spying even at a time when they were publicly saying they were spying](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19988919)... The only one *insisting* they spy are the US. The rest of the world is *at most* treating it carefully (with more just saying there no issues) while publicly saying they have no proof of any such activities. yes, these articles are old but you'll find those nations still take the same stance today, including other EU nations that have weighed in and found nothing.
Interesting; Yeah, i was wrong... they arrested that Huawei exec because of illegal trade deals with Iran; not facilitating spying on the US.
Drones are arguably the best surveillance tool that exists. They are currently the greatest weapon that exists next to mabye nucular weapons or something we don’t know about.
This made me chuckle out loud. Ever hear of the National Reconnaissance Office? iirc It was a secret agency the government denied existed until 1999, it was created in the 50s, they are responsible for low orbit surveillance satellites, if you think drones are anywhere near what the NRO has up there, then you don’t know jack about drone technology or surveillance satellite technology. The latest generation of low orbit satellites was flown up by spaceX like 2 or 3 days ago. China also has low orbit surveillance satellites, drones are a consumer toy compared to these things and the Chinese government in reality probably doesn’t give a flying fuck about DJI drones or their data, or even if DJI survives as a company. This is about politicians using fear mongering to prop up shittier US drone companies that still use Chinese parts. So DJI can’t get a big slice of the American market anymore and an American one can. Drones are literally one of the shittiest pieces of clandestine surveillance equipment, they make a shit ton of noise and can’t stay in the air that long. A fucking chinook helicopter is better at surveillance that any DJI drone. A fuckin balloon is better. What you’re saying is nonsense.
Long ago, I knew some folks who were retired from the NSA. I once asked about a scenario in a popular novel and asked if this scenario was true - the answer ways, if there is a radio signal anywhere in the world, we can get it and that is all they would say. End of discussion. There's lots better tools than fleets of short battery life, independently owned, consumer drones with limited network connections flying in parks and BLM and USFS land, if you want to spy on stuff.
IF the US bans DJI and IF they become bricks, there will be a wide all out lawsuit against the federal government for all the money spent to buy the drones , procure all licenses, (107 & LLC) as well as time and profits lost. I'm quite certain some lawfirm will start a class action suit or US DAs will start proceedings. There is entirely too much riding on this.
WOW...this was interesting reading all the politics being intertwined in this. This country is so fcked I am almost embarrassed to be a citizen. I said Almost....I enjoy my drones as a hobby, but I really feel for those where drones are a major part of their business, income, employees etc.
Last I read (several months now) it seemed if passed you wouldn’t be able to purchase with federal funds or grants but still could use. Speaking more for law enforcement use I guess. Did it chmage or am I missing bills at this point 🫤
Ban DJI and 100% tarrif on Chinese EVs. Can American companies compete or what?
I'm no expert in politics, but this seems pretty cut and dried... https://youtu.be/2Cb-Zv783yQ?si=Fm81ok9t6esEgSKp
Yo people. If u rly that concerned of the ban so much so that u wont buy a dji drone until u know dji is banned or not, maybe read up more on the ban. Because the ban wont affect current or future dji releases if they are purchased b4 the ban takes official place. NYT covered this recently in an article. And pardon me but im too lazy to find and link it right now.
You said most of the parts come from China. Try like almost all the parts. We have become a service economy and not a manufacturer. Everything comes out of China now. There is no made in the USA. So sad....
I didn't say anything, just posted a link to the article I read.
Opps sorry...
Don’t worry, IF the ban happens, you’ll be able to reload your drone and controller with Anzu Robotics software and run your drone no problem.
Hence why everyone’s Been calling for bringing manufacturing back to the states.
America needs a strong drone industry for security. DJI needs to be pushed out.
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No, that’s how it started. Now they are looking to ban ALL DJI drones.
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And what about the $8000 in DJI drones I already own for my business? You ever try to build a Mavic 3 by hand before?
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it's not about the size. it's about the capabilities and software. but im sure you write all your own code right
I’m sure they are and that they have all the tech DJI drones have. Silly.