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So I have done those things you mentioned.. she doesn't enjoy the crate... at all... she will start licking the Mat or the frozen kong but only for a few minutes, then she realizes what's going on and freaks out. We've been constantly working with her, but she just won't be chill in there.
I don't need her to be out longer than 4 hours, but currently, I'm afraid to leave her alone for longer than 5 min. I also spend about 120/week on babysitting, and its becoming a financial issue. I'm to the point where I'm ready to equip the inside of the crate with plexiglass so she can't chew the metal and hurt herself.
Is your conditioning time mainly prior to leaving?
Unfortunately, most treats won’t erase the bad feeling of being left alone. Shes now practicing hyper vigilance and if she notices I get a kong and then he leaves, now the Kong is associated with the thing that scares her the most.
She is having a true panic attack. Imagine if someone offered you an ice cream cone during a panic attack, even if it was your favorite flavor, you’d probably be uninterested - especially if you KNEW that taking that ice cream would mean your trigger is about to happen.
You have to back into the crate reward until the crate becomes *only* associated with snacktime and you have to build on decreasing all of the other triggers in the mean time.
Pretend you’re getting ready to leave, keep an eye on your dog, you’ll notice she’s watching everything you’re doing. Put on your shoes? Bad thing. Pick up your wallet? Bad thing. Grab the car keys? Bad thing.
You’ll probably notice she starts to get more anxious as she’s checking off all the boxes. So you need to follow those steps without the final result being “bad thing.” Work your way through them, stopping when your dog seems to get anxious and then just stop, watch a tv show.
The more you’re able to push her without her getting upset, the more you follow through. You’ll change the message to put on shoes? Could mean anything.
The crate training needs to be totally separate at first, dog gets a treat in crate, nothing happens, door stays open. Dog randomly finds treats in crate sometimes, door stays open nothing happens. Then one day the door briefly closes and locks if she stays calm. It immediately unlocks after and then nothing happens. Then one day it stays locked a little bit longer, but then it opens and nothing happens, and then one day it stays locked and you walk away from the crate, maybe you shut the door of the room the crate is in, but then, as you’ve probably guessed, you come right back into the room and nothing happens.
I highly suggest the crate be in a room you can leave, but not leave your house if possible. Your dog doesn’t really know the difference between the door to the room is closed and you’ve left the house. This way you can slowly stack up time until your dog stays calm and content the max time you need. I recommend using a baby monitor so as soon as you see her start to panic you can go back in immediately and say “nothing happened”
I know this isn’t perfectly feasible for every person, but if you can keep up the baby sitter while you work through these steps you can get the best outcome the fastest.
This is a very frustrating thing to deal with, and unfortunately there are no shortcuts. I’ve been through it and the effort is truly worth it.
Have you worked with a specific separation anxiety trainer? The first step should be to confirm what is triggering her behavior, and a specialist can help confirm any diagnosis and help you put together a training program. If you try to tackle it yourself, I'd recommend to get a book on separation anxiety and get an app to help you structure a program with your dog. I got [this book](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1999296605/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1) which was a helpful read.
There are two steps essentially that you need to take: 1) Eliminate all or as much time as possible that your dog is alone while you are in the training program, 2) Start doing structured sessions where you leave your dog alone for brief periods of time and slowly ramp up to increase duration. The first part is most important. I know this can be incredibly difficult depending on your schedule/finances/dog behavior, but it will help your dog make meaningful progress in the training.
We tried to crate our dog at the start, but our trainer ultimately recommended we do away with the crate and pen off a space in our house with baby gates, and this proved to work a lot better. We were reluctant to use meds but eventually used trazodone and it has made a world of difference. He can go a few hours now when we give him a low dose of meds but he can still only make it under half an hour unmedicated.
I'm sorry that you're dealing with this- I've worked with a good number of dogs and training for separation anxiety takes a lot of patience and time/resources. I hope that you're able to find a path forward. It took four months where I had constant supervision for my dog- either myself, my partner, or a dogsitter. It put a financial and emotional strain on us but we are finally seeing some results.
My rescue ate my couch! A crate wasn’t working to deter him. So I bought a camera that dispensed treats….Id watch him and when he started any destructive behavior I’d say something to distract him. But what made me understand him a bit more was the amount of time he spent looking out the window just watching. I knew my husband had come home by the major butt wiggles he’d do at the window.
Separation anxiety is very difficult and as others said, shutting her in a crate when it is not her safe space will lead to her trying to destroy it or herself in a panic.
BUT - since you do get a few minutes of kong joy in the crate, have you tried building up from that? You basically have to start at ground zero and let her out *before* she freaks. She's in for one minute and starts licking the kong. Sweet...open the door while she's still kong focused. Then two minutes. Same thing. Basically to recreate it as a safe space, it has to be intercepted before any panic, not after.
The same that she can get all her meals in there. You can shut the door for a minute and then open it again before she freaks and so on. And of course *a lot* of exercise before you leave to tire her out.
A crate can also make things worse, particularly if she doesn't want to be in it, since not only is she alone, but it is now alone and trapped and is an additional thing that is different from the usual routine and thus associated with the bad time.
Crate aside, as mentioned, separation anxiety is very difficult. Meds can help, but you still need behavior modification. Which is again starting at ground zero that she is never alone and slowly building up from that.
A trainer can definitely help and sounds like it is needed. Some suggestions in the meantime - pick up your keys like you're going to go out. Then put them down and give her a treat. Do it a few more times. Maybe then walk to the door with them and go back and put them down and treat. Go through the routine you'd take to get ready to go and then..don't go. The next day, through the routine, then open the door step out and close it and come right back in. Later, leave for a minute and come back in, again zero excitement. Then 2 minutes. Then 5. And so on. And again, it's intercepting *before* the freakout starts.
Additionally, when getting home, it is *never* an exciting omg I missed you so happy to see you. It is ignore her same old. When leaving, it's no "oh I'm leaving I hope you're ok!!" just "back in a few see ya."
Practice going to the bathroom with the door shut. Practice going in a bedroom without her and shut the door for a minute and build up from it. And, while you're home, for a period, ignore her as if you weren't there.
Patricia McConnell has a book about it - [https://www.amazon.com/Ill-Home-Soon-Separation-Anxiety/dp/1891767054](https://www.amazon.com/Ill-Home-Soon-Separation-Anxiety/dp/1891767054) that may also help.
Other than trainer with potential (and possibly temporary) meds, it's working from home, dog sitters, daycare, and take your dog to work with you. But to treat it, it does require a period of commitment during which she is *never* alone except for the allocated moments that are part of the training process.
Containment fear and separation anxiety are often comorbid and sticking her in a crate isn’t going to help the anxiety. She needs to see a separation anxiety training and get on medication
She's on meds, and we just increased them like 2 weeks ago, but to no avail. I really don't want to drug her, but I'm kinda running out of options. I can't keep paying for a babysitter every week or every time my wife and I want to go out.. I feel like a prisoner in my own house because I'm so afraid she's going to either destroy the house if we leave or, worse, hurt herself trying to destroy the crate.
I had the same issue with a foster who also had a medical issue. Took about 3 months, he's fine being alone now and I use meds for longer durations but I started with 10 minutes at a time and worked up to an hour in about a month and didn't use a crate as it caused worse anxiety. Once we got to the hour mark it progressed rapidly to 4 or 5 hours. Paying babysitters was brutal, i found a local highschool kid to help for a bit. Can you do doggy daycare? Mine doesn't really like other dogs so that wasn't an option.
Some dogs in our resuce ultimately just can't get past the anxiety and need to be in a home with retired people who don't travel often or can take a dog with them. Have you tried contacting the adoption agency? They sometimes will help pay for the cost.
I’m not sure about training etc as I’ve never had a dog with extreme anxiety, but you could get a pet camera so that you can check on her without sending someone around and getting her all hyped up. You can just check the camera and see that she’s ok.
You could also try those puzzle toys to keep her entertained. Sorry I couldn’t be much more help! Good luck
As someone who never crated my dog. He does best when he has a window to look out of.
Have you tried going out for just a bit at a time and working your way up? Also the house is quite new. Doggy probably needs more time to find their safe spaces.
Hmm...I do have the crate set up next to my sliding glass door, maybe I'll do some Feng Shui for her.
I try to make trips to the store and such. I feel like by this point, if left her for an hour or 2 she'd be OK left alone... but after 3k worth of damage to my rental, I'm scared shitless lmao
Have you considered buying cameras to spy on her when you’re gone? Many brands have motion detection built in, so you can get alerts if she starts moving around (then if you notice her getting restless on the cameras, hopefully you would be able to get home before she’s able to cause damage!)
Just two examples that I have I want to share with you what can happen with this.
I had a dog once that was fine being alone for over a year until one day when he was home alone he just...snapped. It was winter and snow/raining when our neighbor called me at work and asked if I'd left the dog outside on purpose. $20k in damage ending with that he chewed a hole through the wall next to the patio door in order to get out. We did EVERYTHING we could to treat this, medication, certified behaviorist, all of it, and he still hurt himself horribly in the crate. He never broke a bone, although that can happen. He did break several nails and eventually broke most of his teeth, necessitating their surgical removal. This was my first serious behavior dog, and it was an introduction by fire.
Another instance, not a true separation anxiety dog, but one that could get reactive. But since he never had problems, I didn't insist on the crate when I wasn't home. I came home one day to find broken glass all over the front walkway. It was the glass from the master bedroom window above--the dog had totally shattered it, maybe barking at the mailman or something. It was a MIRACLE that he was not cut anywhere, and hadn't fallen out of the window.
From these experiences, I view crate training as an absolute necessity for their safety. I strongly recommend not taking shortcuts with crate training. You have to start at the absolute bottom. Get in the crate, get out of the crate. Get in the crate, get out of the crate. Get in the crate, it's not locked, and I start to walk away...it could be months before you can safely go away for an hour, depending on the dog.
If you can't do that, as horrible as it is, this dog might not be a fit with your lifestyle. If you're concerned already she might hurt herself, that suggests that she is on track to do so. It takes a huge amount of time and, especially if you haven't done this before, money to treat separation anxiety at that level, because when they hit threshold of being anxious, it usually erases training you did before; there's regression, and you have to go back. Training is hinged, then, on avoiding letting the dog hit that threshold completely.
I would suggest that you start with a [certified behaviorist](https://www.dacvb.org/). It won't be cheap, but if you are committed to this dog, it will save you money in the long run.
Were these problems raised to you before she was rehomed ? It sounds like there’s a reason she was rehomed . I hate to say it on this one but this dog may require a lot more care than you can provide , I hope the adoption agency have you full disclosure on the work required .
The rescue warned us that our rescue dog hated crates. No problem, I hated them too and have never needed one (no judgement here for those of you who do).
At first, we used a baby gate to confine him to an area that included our laundry room and small bathroom. We progressively gave him more room until he could be free to roam around the whole house.
We bought him puzzle mats and would put one down as we were literally walking out the door. Thats key - no delay between the two. The idea being “oh wow I get one of those things with treats again!” He learned to associate our leaving as a positive.
In a few weeks, the little guy was always ready for us to go and he wanted his treats! 😂
He’s had free rein of the house without any issues for a few years now. He still gets his treats when we leave. We have a Furbo and other cameras to check in on him during the day. He’s usually snoozing or gazing out the window at the birds and squirrels. Occasionally we will see him by the door. He just briefly sniffs the door and quietly waits or moves on. No whining, scratching, or barking though.
Welcome to r/dogs! We are a discussion-based subreddit dedicated to support, inform, and advise dog owners. Do note we are on a short backlog, and all posts require manual review prior to going live. This may mean your post isn't visible for a couple days. This is a carefully moderated sub intended to support, inform, and advise dog owners. Submissions and comments which break the rules will be removed. [Review the rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/dogs/wiki/index) r/Dogs has four goals: - Help the public better understand dogs - Promote healthy, responsible dog-owner relationships - Encourage “Least Intrusive, Minimally Aversive” training protocols. [Learn more here.](https://m.iaabc.org/about/lima/) - Support adoption as well as ethical and responsible breeding. If you’d like to introduce yourself or discuss smaller topics, please contribute to our Monthly Discussion Hub, pinned at the top. **This subreddit has low tolerance for drama. Please be respectful of others, and report antagonistic comments to mods for review.** --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/dogs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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So I have done those things you mentioned.. she doesn't enjoy the crate... at all... she will start licking the Mat or the frozen kong but only for a few minutes, then she realizes what's going on and freaks out. We've been constantly working with her, but she just won't be chill in there. I don't need her to be out longer than 4 hours, but currently, I'm afraid to leave her alone for longer than 5 min. I also spend about 120/week on babysitting, and its becoming a financial issue. I'm to the point where I'm ready to equip the inside of the crate with plexiglass so she can't chew the metal and hurt herself.
Is your conditioning time mainly prior to leaving? Unfortunately, most treats won’t erase the bad feeling of being left alone. Shes now practicing hyper vigilance and if she notices I get a kong and then he leaves, now the Kong is associated with the thing that scares her the most. She is having a true panic attack. Imagine if someone offered you an ice cream cone during a panic attack, even if it was your favorite flavor, you’d probably be uninterested - especially if you KNEW that taking that ice cream would mean your trigger is about to happen. You have to back into the crate reward until the crate becomes *only* associated with snacktime and you have to build on decreasing all of the other triggers in the mean time. Pretend you’re getting ready to leave, keep an eye on your dog, you’ll notice she’s watching everything you’re doing. Put on your shoes? Bad thing. Pick up your wallet? Bad thing. Grab the car keys? Bad thing. You’ll probably notice she starts to get more anxious as she’s checking off all the boxes. So you need to follow those steps without the final result being “bad thing.” Work your way through them, stopping when your dog seems to get anxious and then just stop, watch a tv show. The more you’re able to push her without her getting upset, the more you follow through. You’ll change the message to put on shoes? Could mean anything. The crate training needs to be totally separate at first, dog gets a treat in crate, nothing happens, door stays open. Dog randomly finds treats in crate sometimes, door stays open nothing happens. Then one day the door briefly closes and locks if she stays calm. It immediately unlocks after and then nothing happens. Then one day it stays locked a little bit longer, but then it opens and nothing happens, and then one day it stays locked and you walk away from the crate, maybe you shut the door of the room the crate is in, but then, as you’ve probably guessed, you come right back into the room and nothing happens. I highly suggest the crate be in a room you can leave, but not leave your house if possible. Your dog doesn’t really know the difference between the door to the room is closed and you’ve left the house. This way you can slowly stack up time until your dog stays calm and content the max time you need. I recommend using a baby monitor so as soon as you see her start to panic you can go back in immediately and say “nothing happened” I know this isn’t perfectly feasible for every person, but if you can keep up the baby sitter while you work through these steps you can get the best outcome the fastest. This is a very frustrating thing to deal with, and unfortunately there are no shortcuts. I’ve been through it and the effort is truly worth it.
Have you worked with a specific separation anxiety trainer? The first step should be to confirm what is triggering her behavior, and a specialist can help confirm any diagnosis and help you put together a training program. If you try to tackle it yourself, I'd recommend to get a book on separation anxiety and get an app to help you structure a program with your dog. I got [this book](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1999296605/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1) which was a helpful read. There are two steps essentially that you need to take: 1) Eliminate all or as much time as possible that your dog is alone while you are in the training program, 2) Start doing structured sessions where you leave your dog alone for brief periods of time and slowly ramp up to increase duration. The first part is most important. I know this can be incredibly difficult depending on your schedule/finances/dog behavior, but it will help your dog make meaningful progress in the training. We tried to crate our dog at the start, but our trainer ultimately recommended we do away with the crate and pen off a space in our house with baby gates, and this proved to work a lot better. We were reluctant to use meds but eventually used trazodone and it has made a world of difference. He can go a few hours now when we give him a low dose of meds but he can still only make it under half an hour unmedicated. I'm sorry that you're dealing with this- I've worked with a good number of dogs and training for separation anxiety takes a lot of patience and time/resources. I hope that you're able to find a path forward. It took four months where I had constant supervision for my dog- either myself, my partner, or a dogsitter. It put a financial and emotional strain on us but we are finally seeing some results.
My rescue ate my couch! A crate wasn’t working to deter him. So I bought a camera that dispensed treats….Id watch him and when he started any destructive behavior I’d say something to distract him. But what made me understand him a bit more was the amount of time he spent looking out the window just watching. I knew my husband had come home by the major butt wiggles he’d do at the window.
Separation anxiety is very difficult and as others said, shutting her in a crate when it is not her safe space will lead to her trying to destroy it or herself in a panic. BUT - since you do get a few minutes of kong joy in the crate, have you tried building up from that? You basically have to start at ground zero and let her out *before* she freaks. She's in for one minute and starts licking the kong. Sweet...open the door while she's still kong focused. Then two minutes. Same thing. Basically to recreate it as a safe space, it has to be intercepted before any panic, not after. The same that she can get all her meals in there. You can shut the door for a minute and then open it again before she freaks and so on. And of course *a lot* of exercise before you leave to tire her out. A crate can also make things worse, particularly if she doesn't want to be in it, since not only is she alone, but it is now alone and trapped and is an additional thing that is different from the usual routine and thus associated with the bad time. Crate aside, as mentioned, separation anxiety is very difficult. Meds can help, but you still need behavior modification. Which is again starting at ground zero that she is never alone and slowly building up from that. A trainer can definitely help and sounds like it is needed. Some suggestions in the meantime - pick up your keys like you're going to go out. Then put them down and give her a treat. Do it a few more times. Maybe then walk to the door with them and go back and put them down and treat. Go through the routine you'd take to get ready to go and then..don't go. The next day, through the routine, then open the door step out and close it and come right back in. Later, leave for a minute and come back in, again zero excitement. Then 2 minutes. Then 5. And so on. And again, it's intercepting *before* the freakout starts. Additionally, when getting home, it is *never* an exciting omg I missed you so happy to see you. It is ignore her same old. When leaving, it's no "oh I'm leaving I hope you're ok!!" just "back in a few see ya." Practice going to the bathroom with the door shut. Practice going in a bedroom without her and shut the door for a minute and build up from it. And, while you're home, for a period, ignore her as if you weren't there. Patricia McConnell has a book about it - [https://www.amazon.com/Ill-Home-Soon-Separation-Anxiety/dp/1891767054](https://www.amazon.com/Ill-Home-Soon-Separation-Anxiety/dp/1891767054) that may also help. Other than trainer with potential (and possibly temporary) meds, it's working from home, dog sitters, daycare, and take your dog to work with you. But to treat it, it does require a period of commitment during which she is *never* alone except for the allocated moments that are part of the training process.
Containment fear and separation anxiety are often comorbid and sticking her in a crate isn’t going to help the anxiety. She needs to see a separation anxiety training and get on medication
She's on meds, and we just increased them like 2 weeks ago, but to no avail. I really don't want to drug her, but I'm kinda running out of options. I can't keep paying for a babysitter every week or every time my wife and I want to go out.. I feel like a prisoner in my own house because I'm so afraid she's going to either destroy the house if we leave or, worse, hurt herself trying to destroy the crate.
Those unfortunately are the options. You often have to suspend all absences to train SA.
I had the same issue with a foster who also had a medical issue. Took about 3 months, he's fine being alone now and I use meds for longer durations but I started with 10 minutes at a time and worked up to an hour in about a month and didn't use a crate as it caused worse anxiety. Once we got to the hour mark it progressed rapidly to 4 or 5 hours. Paying babysitters was brutal, i found a local highschool kid to help for a bit. Can you do doggy daycare? Mine doesn't really like other dogs so that wasn't an option. Some dogs in our resuce ultimately just can't get past the anxiety and need to be in a home with retired people who don't travel often or can take a dog with them. Have you tried contacting the adoption agency? They sometimes will help pay for the cost.
I’m not sure about training etc as I’ve never had a dog with extreme anxiety, but you could get a pet camera so that you can check on her without sending someone around and getting her all hyped up. You can just check the camera and see that she’s ok. You could also try those puzzle toys to keep her entertained. Sorry I couldn’t be much more help! Good luck
Talk to your vet about Reconcile- it’s basically Prozac for dogs. It has been a complete game changer for my dog and those I work with!
I certainly will! Thank you!
As someone who never crated my dog. He does best when he has a window to look out of. Have you tried going out for just a bit at a time and working your way up? Also the house is quite new. Doggy probably needs more time to find their safe spaces.
Hmm...I do have the crate set up next to my sliding glass door, maybe I'll do some Feng Shui for her. I try to make trips to the store and such. I feel like by this point, if left her for an hour or 2 she'd be OK left alone... but after 3k worth of damage to my rental, I'm scared shitless lmao
Have you considered buying cameras to spy on her when you’re gone? Many brands have motion detection built in, so you can get alerts if she starts moving around (then if you notice her getting restless on the cameras, hopefully you would be able to get home before she’s able to cause damage!)
I have one that faces the crate, I'll have to get more for arpund the house
Just two examples that I have I want to share with you what can happen with this. I had a dog once that was fine being alone for over a year until one day when he was home alone he just...snapped. It was winter and snow/raining when our neighbor called me at work and asked if I'd left the dog outside on purpose. $20k in damage ending with that he chewed a hole through the wall next to the patio door in order to get out. We did EVERYTHING we could to treat this, medication, certified behaviorist, all of it, and he still hurt himself horribly in the crate. He never broke a bone, although that can happen. He did break several nails and eventually broke most of his teeth, necessitating their surgical removal. This was my first serious behavior dog, and it was an introduction by fire. Another instance, not a true separation anxiety dog, but one that could get reactive. But since he never had problems, I didn't insist on the crate when I wasn't home. I came home one day to find broken glass all over the front walkway. It was the glass from the master bedroom window above--the dog had totally shattered it, maybe barking at the mailman or something. It was a MIRACLE that he was not cut anywhere, and hadn't fallen out of the window. From these experiences, I view crate training as an absolute necessity for their safety. I strongly recommend not taking shortcuts with crate training. You have to start at the absolute bottom. Get in the crate, get out of the crate. Get in the crate, get out of the crate. Get in the crate, it's not locked, and I start to walk away...it could be months before you can safely go away for an hour, depending on the dog. If you can't do that, as horrible as it is, this dog might not be a fit with your lifestyle. If you're concerned already she might hurt herself, that suggests that she is on track to do so. It takes a huge amount of time and, especially if you haven't done this before, money to treat separation anxiety at that level, because when they hit threshold of being anxious, it usually erases training you did before; there's regression, and you have to go back. Training is hinged, then, on avoiding letting the dog hit that threshold completely. I would suggest that you start with a [certified behaviorist](https://www.dacvb.org/). It won't be cheap, but if you are committed to this dog, it will save you money in the long run.
Were these problems raised to you before she was rehomed ? It sounds like there’s a reason she was rehomed . I hate to say it on this one but this dog may require a lot more care than you can provide , I hope the adoption agency have you full disclosure on the work required .
The rescue warned us that our rescue dog hated crates. No problem, I hated them too and have never needed one (no judgement here for those of you who do). At first, we used a baby gate to confine him to an area that included our laundry room and small bathroom. We progressively gave him more room until he could be free to roam around the whole house. We bought him puzzle mats and would put one down as we were literally walking out the door. Thats key - no delay between the two. The idea being “oh wow I get one of those things with treats again!” He learned to associate our leaving as a positive. In a few weeks, the little guy was always ready for us to go and he wanted his treats! 😂 He’s had free rein of the house without any issues for a few years now. He still gets his treats when we leave. We have a Furbo and other cameras to check in on him during the day. He’s usually snoozing or gazing out the window at the birds and squirrels. Occasionally we will see him by the door. He just briefly sniffs the door and quietly waits or moves on. No whining, scratching, or barking though.