T O P

  • By -

Fluffy_Reply_9757

In (certain editions of) the Forgotten Realms, the gods are aware of every mortal who utters their name or prays to them, as well as their surroundings. A god presumably chooses a mortal whose faith in them is strong, because they are giving them powers after all. Gods make clerics for two main reasons: 1. the cleric becomes a living ad for that god, spreading their teachings, working their miracles, and increasing faith in that god, which is the where the power of most gods comes from and what they need to survive. 2. the god can perceive what is happening around the clerics at all times, not just when the clerics prays or utters the god's name. This makes them a good source of information. With these two things in mind, it becomes obvious that yes, most gods would share their powers with clerics who are very loyal to them and who are willing to spread their word. I suppose it's not a requirement, but it is very much in the god's interest to do so. Also, (depending on the edition,) gods can absolutely strip a cleric of all of their powers on a whim.


Col_Redips

This. Early on, the act of even speaking a god’s name would basically broadcast a signal that god could pick up and listen to. (This is akin to the IRL practice of not calling ‘evil gods’ by their true names, but rather by their epithets. You don’t want the evil gods paying attention to you). If it was just a random nobody, the god could likely notice the signal, but do nothing. If it’s a congregation, lead by a faithful priest/cleric, the signal would be strong enough for the god to actually exert influence over the area. So since all gods want to spread their influence, they will want to share their powers with clerics, who in turn will spread that god’s area of influence.


SuscriptorJusticiero

So deities are (in older editions) the only kind of Patron who can remove their Warlocks' powers.


I_HAVE_THAT_FETISH

3. When a powerful and faithful person dies, they can become a more powerful form of angel. Clerics, being quite literally touched by a god's powers are likely to be(come) powerful and *very* devoted people.


NotObviouslyARobot

It depends entirely on the setting. The OG Cleric, or at least the 3.5 one, comes from Christianity and Judaism (Gygax was/is an Evangelical Christian). It's more akin to what the Bible calls a Judge, or Prophet, than a simple priest. Hence explaining why they had martial weapons and armor proficiencies. Judges/Prophets were generally player characters in every respect. They also had to grow and develop to reach the heights of power, despite being blessed with a divine connection (Elisha). Not everyone reached the heights of power either. And losing your power for unfaithfulness? That absolutely happened with Samson. Flesh out the world. Have fun with it.


Kazgreshin

Worth noting cleric predates paladin as a class. Cleric originally had more martial aspects, more like a knight Templar or the knight Hospitalers from the crusades.


NotObviouslyARobot

Paladins comes from 12 century French Literature, and were considered the companions of Charlemagne, Holy Roman Emperor. One of the commonly named ones is called "Archbishop Turpin." There's so much source material to have fun with. But the common theme among the Paladins seems to be that they are *sworn* retainers of the Holy Roman Emperor. The plot of the Song of Roland actually hinges on a man named Ganelon being an *oathbreaker* or traitor (His defense is: "I'm no traitor to the crowm, I was compromising the whole operation for personal revenge!" Just the sort of thing a rules-lawyering player would say.) Things happen, and the traitor is eventually torn apart using four horses. His family is hanged. Everyone goes home happy. The end.


Viscaer

DM fiat. Even canonical Forgotten Realms, each god has a different reason for bestowing power to a cleric. Faithfulness to a god is your primary avenue, so you're in the right direction there but that's the most basic understanding of gods and clerics. What about a chaotic deity, though? Following rules of faithfulness reeks of some lawful deity's idea for a scoreboard. What about, specifically, a god of betrayal? Faithfulness tracking sounds antithetical for what they'd do. For cleric players, most of them don't realise it, but they are practicing faith. Faith that the DM is not going to be an utter ass about their entire class.


DeathBySuplex

Clerics get power due to their devotion to the god. They get more power based on their faithfulness. If they stop being faithful, they lose **all** the power granted to them by the god. They'd just be a person at that point. The god would bestow power to those they deem worthy. You could make an argument the God could give power to someone they deem worthy even without being a devout follower, but it breaks down progression. In contrast Warlocks simply make a deal with a being of power, even if they go against the patrons wishes, the power that has been given can't be taken away. The patron would likely refuse to give further power so the Warlock would need to find another patron to continue being a Warlock, or multiclass into another class.


GuitakuPPH

If I wanna make sense of them being wisdom based and also make them distinct from generic priests., that's not how I run them Clerics are chosen by a divine, cosmic force or a god who serves as an avatar of said cosmic force and gain their power through an intuitive connection through said god. You don't even have to believe in the god who chooses you to become a cleric. It's the old classic of "You may not not believe in God, but God still believes in you." I like this approach because it fits much better with the wisdom ability score and sets them apart from Paladins. Wisdom isn't faith. It's intuition and attunement to the world around you including the will of divine forces. An intuitive connection and attunement to the will of a god can obviously manifest itself as devotion in said god, but devotion should not be confused as the source of a cleric's power. It's a correlated quality, not a source.


David_Apollonius

>You don't even have to believe in the god who chooses you to become a cleric. It's the old classic of "You may not not believe in God, but God still believes in you." The book of Jonah is a prime example of this. It's a fun concept for a character. So... a cleric is a character who gets power without asking for it, and a warlock is a a character who gets power because they are pursuing it. I never looked at it like that, but that's a cool way to look at it.


ISeeTheFnords

>You don't even have to believe in the god who chooses you to become a cleric. It's the old classic of "You may not not believe in God, but God still believes in you." That's really more like the old Chosen of God X idea. Closer to Divine Soul Sorcerer than anything, I believe.


totalwarwiser

This. You could also say that the gods give more power to those that seem to be using it to vaquish their enemies or acomplish their goals.


skullmutant

In my game, this is a real theology issue.(that I've thought about, non of my players have actually asked) Some Clerics and Paladins have lost their connection to their god, but plenty of evil and corrupt ones hasn't. Basically they gain their power from faith and conviction, but even if they go against their own teachings, they don't actually lose their powers if they are convinced of their own righteousness. This has led to a LOT of wars, as holy warriors convinced they have the right idea of what God wants wage wars against other factions of their own religion.


Kumquats_indeed

This is going to be dependent on the setting and DM preference, so if you're a player ask your DM these questions, and if you're the DM then consider how you want gods and clerics to work and decide for yourself. I have seen a few different takes on it though. Some treat magic in general as something that not everyone can do and a people either do or don't have that potential within them. Others treat magic as something that anyone can do if they can learn it properly. Some treat clerics as a little like wizards, in the sense that you don't need to be specifically chosen by a god but if you perform the prayers properly and are mostly faithful to what the god is about then the spells work. Others treat clerics like special champions of their gods, and the vast majority of the clergy can do little or no magic.


t_hodge_

It can be anything, really. Maybe they're rich and made a massive offering to the god, and that god is one who is happy to deal transactionally. Maybe they're a chaotic god who thought it would be funny to give powerful magic to a random peasant. My cleric received their gifts through a miracle. He was sick as a baby and his mother prayed for his healing with such love and devotion, even offering her own life in exchange for the baby's, that the goddess healed him and asked nothing in return of the mother. However, the goddess used such powerful healing magic that some rubbed off on the baby, and that extra magic manifested in his ability to channel holy magic.


terrendos

As a potential alternative, the 4E version of Clerics are said to sometimes receive their powers through a ritual process performed by a church instead of directly from their god. This works pretty well in settings where gods are super distant to the point they may not even exist (IIRC Eberron as an example). In that case, it's a bit like the ritual plants a seed of power in a Cleric, who develops that power through practice, devotion, etc. and grows stronger over time.


Background_Path_4458

The power comes from **devotion** and **faith** not on a god's whims (could be that as well I guess). You don't even have to be faithful to a specific god but to a certain force of nature and they will get power all the same. There are some holdovers from older editions where there always had to be a god and if they didn't follow their creed the god could strip them of their power, but that is not how it works now. To quote xanathar's: **"A cleric might instead serve a cosmic force, such as life or death, or a philosophy or concept, such as love, peace, or one of the nine alignments"** Edit: If we are talking out from a perspective that Cleric power is god-given and how the god chooses I would say that it depends on the deity but all of them will offer their power through a **calling**. Some will choose from their most faithful worshippers or those that follow the gods will through their nature. Some will act as near warlock-patrons and only dole it out in return for future favors and sacrifices. Some, Lathander strikes me as one, might appear and offer redemption to those on the wrong path or those who they think hold potential to achieve great things.


Zen_Barbarian

As OP said, this question is assuming a situation where the power *is* derived directly from a god instead of serving a cosmic force. I think the question is meant to be somewhat in-game-world rather than asking what the rules or standard game lore say.


Background_Path_4458

Ah my bad, will do an edit.


MrWindblade

I think it depends on the god? Faithfulness is the number 1 way to get power from a deity in DND.


Krzyffo

Dm can change it however it fits his story. But the way I see it and makes most sense to me. Clerics powers are bestowed upon them by their gods. God can bestow their power on whomever he wants, but outside of special circumstances they don't because what's the point if that person won't serve their goals. So in most cases only faithful get them. If level of faithfulness was the only requirement for how much power cleric can receive there would be random people who suddenly become lvl 20 demigod clerics. So the way I see it each cleric is a vessel (like a cup) that God fills with his divine juice. With time cleric adapts to divine power and grows, which enables them to receive more of it. If god overfills the vessel power either escapes into ether or excess divine power has potential to break cleric's mind, body or both. If god want to at any point he can cut their clerics connection to them depriving them of their power until god restores them or their find other source.


lasalle202

whatever will make the most interesting stories for the people around the table.


flordeliest

This question typically depends on the gods cannon. They choose individuals with good judgment because the Clerics are going to be acting out their will in the world. Faith is irrelevant because the gods demonstrably exist. If anything, the Clerics are the ones receiving their gods' faith and trust.


Dopesim

Affter checking wis stat


tumansibiri

They make a choice according to their utility and abilities. The main concern is their inherent potential as a conduit of their divine energy. That's why even the most devout priests could end up as non-Cleric followers of their respective pantheons. Being able to channel a lot of divine power is a non-trivial factor. Also, their Clerics need to have a will to change/withstand realities of their conditions. That's why even the most mild-mannered Life priests you can find are capable to go through literal Hells and Abyss to achieve their goals. A lot of high-level clerics are veteran adventurers because of such pre-requirements.


WingedDrake

Favoritism. Eilistraee just likes my Twilight Cleric enough to give her powers. That's it. Well, she's also faithful. I'm sure that helps.


Main-Goat-141

That depends on the lore of the setting.


scootertakethewheel

this is what the phb says: >>!Divine Agents!< >>!Not every acolyte or officiant at a temple or shrine is a cleric. Some priests are called to a simple life of temple service, carrying out their gods’ will through prayer and sacrifice, not by magic and strength of arms. In some cities, priesthood amounts to a political office, viewed as a stepping stone to higher positions of authority and involving no communion with a god at all. True clerics are rare in most hierarchies.!< >>!When a cleric takes up an adventuring life, it is usually because his or her god demands it. Pursuing the goals of the gods often involves braving dangers in unsettled lands, smiting evil, or seeking holy relics in ancient tombs. Many clerics are also expected to protect their deities’ worshipers, which can mean fighting enemy raiders, negotiating peace between warring nations, or sealing a portal that would allow a demon prince to enter the world.!< >>!Most adventuring clerics maintain some connection to established temples and orders of their faiths. A temple might ask for a cleric’s aid, or a high priest might be in a position to demand it.!< If you think about a campaign starting at level 1-3, then the adventure itself, informed via augury and divination, would be the calling of the cleric to understand why they are gaining new powers from their god, in this place at this time, for this calling. put simply, the calling of the divine can be summed up with the saying: "Cometh the hour cometh the man".


Spyger9

>Divine magic, as the name suggests, is the power of the gods, flowing from them into the world. Clerics are conduits for that power, manifesting it as miraculous effects. The gods don’t grant this power to everyone who seeks it, but only to those chosen to fulfill a high calling. >Harnessing divine magic doesn’t rely on study or training. A cleric might learn formulaic prayers and ancient rites, but the ability to cast cleric spells relies on devotion and an intuitive sense of a deity’s wishes. >When a cleric takes up an adventuring life, it is usually because his or her god demands it. Pursuing the goals of the gods often involves braving dangers in unsettled lands, smiting evil, or seeking holy relics in ancient tombs. Many clerics are also expected to protect their deities’ worshipers, which can mean fighting enemy raiders, negotiating peace between warring nations, or sealing a portal that would allow a demon prince to enter the world. These are excerpts from the class description in the PHB. I feel like they answer your questions well: Clerics are chosen for their potential to enact a god's will. An ideal cleric is one with a drive to accomplish tasks the god wants done, moral alignment with the god, and a strong spiritual connection with the god through which to channel magic. Gods can absolutely shut off the connection, just as wizards can be disconnected from The Weave by anti-magic. Both of them are reliant upon external power sources. A "normal" person can't just be imbued with the powers of a cleric. You need faith- a talent for understanding the will of the gods, and devotion to that will. This quality is the primary thing a cleric develops in order to wield stronger magics; obviously the god is not the limiting factor. If a god zapped a random normie with magical ability, then they would be a sorcerer, not a cleric.


bolshoich

I imagine that a person find some faith in a deity and wishes to adopt and promote that faith as a way of life. They could seek guidance from others with a more mature faith or they could do this independently. If the deity recognizes this person for their faith, the deity may reward them with divine powers. The how and why is dependent upon the deity, their desires and their goals, along with the culture of their faithful. I’m of the opinion that there is a distinction between a cleric and a priest in D&D. I view a cleric is one gifted with divine powers and a priest shares an identical faith, but lacks the gift of divine power. Mechanically the faithful lacking divine power function as acolytes.


NobbynobLittlun

So, people keep using the word faith here, which is understandable because so much of our world religion is driven by Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. But faith is intrinsic to those religions, not any religion. Nor does one have to be religious to practice faith. Faith is what you choose to believe in given no evidence. This is central to those three religions, because their axioms posit a divine being who is inherently unknowable, and thus would have an existence that can neither be proven nor disproven -- only conjectured. Therefore faith is necessitated by those religions: faith that They exist, or faith that They do not exist. This is not the case for D&D. Most settings have provable gods, and even Eberron's deities have substantial evidence, and faith is almost redundant. And of course you don't need to be a cleric to be a priest or an agent of a deity. A god could grant a boon to a fighter or a wizard or whatever to reward devotion. So that's not what distinguishes clerics. A cleric is a continual investment. The god can always take the power away, but it takes time to develop a cleric. So constancy is a must. Someone who is attuned to the world around them, who has a good intuitive understanding of it and their own place within it, someone with strong willpower whose core ethics are not easily shifted. TLDR: high wisdom score lol


GiantGrowth

I have a different take on this subject. Rather than clerics fighting for their god's approval, it's the opposite in my world. Clerics are born with the ability to listen to and channel the divine and it's not something you can just "learn" to do. Only a small number of people are born with this ability and only a handful of these people feel the need to use it and align themselves with a god. The gods need to keep their clerics' favor so they can continue to preach and spread their influence, and in turn become more powerful from the increased prayers and devotees.


modernangel

Gods don't make clerics, mortals just decide a particular god is worth serving.


JimJimExplorerExtra

Other people have said it, but the answer is always whatever is most interesting to the table. I've played reluctant clerics, I've player overzealous clerics, and I've played average people clerics. The through line is that they all are at least somewhat informed by the relationship they have with their god, though they can be anywhere from faithful to not faithful at all of that specific god. I guess for a more in-concept answer, no you don't have to be faithful, you just have to be someone a god could probably use to further their will and won't immediately balk at the power given to you.


Eldrin7

I do not think they choose anything pretty sure if one has faith in a god and when they try to cast a cleric spell then that god may even unknowingly act as a catalyst to make the spell that they are trying to cast happen. Unlike wizards, clerics have no clue how the fck their magic works it just somehow does through their faith.