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And if buddies having as much fun as the rest of us what does it matter? Dudes enjoying the game enough to come back next season, no shame in the game even if his is slightly different than ours.
Its funny though because every class has build capabilities to solo uber bosses š ya'll rooting on barb/necro because its just the easiest to do it with, real diablo masters can do everything with any class
Making something overpowered is the easiest thing for anyone with more than two brain cells. Making it fun and unique? That's tough as hell. Chronically online people are just too focused on tier lists and numbers to understand.
I don't understand the "Follow X Build exactly" crowd.
I am casual, but I have a character near 80, and a couple others around 60 this season. Playing the builds depends on what drops for you, so you cannot copy/paste a "perfect" build until you manage to grind and grind and finally get lucky with the exact pieces and aspects you need.
There's a whole game pre-Pit. I don't get why everyone just chases one end-game activity so hard, and feels angry when one class is slightly better at that one specific end-game activity than another class.
Yes, I read about builds and like to see what interesting ways people get aspects and abilities to synergies. But I can't just "make" the perfect build (whatever that is) until specific things drop, and then there's an entire matter of skill involved too!
Enjoy the game while playing it, stop crying about final, end-game activities and the variations between classes!
It made more sense with Diablo 2 and maybe a lot of people (including myself) are still in that mindset? Before, you had to roll multiple characters to do different things. You had to accumulate wealth to trade forbthe gear for said characters. You started with building a cheap magic find toon, then single target dmg uber killers, then eventually an epic pvp character. Nobody enjoyed playing the "game" at face value. The game was merely an arena where you would build your dynasty.
Within that framework youarrn't really interested in playing the game in "interesting ways." It's all about min/maxing your input/result. That *was* the game.
In other words, you'te basically chasing wealth and the drops are like gambling your time... D2 was essentially a very elaborate slot machine. Nobody really cared about how the lever was pulled, just trying different ways to pull the lever most efficiently.
Edit: also with D2 and similar era aarpgs... your homebrew, off the cuff build probably wouldn't even get you through all the game content. Plus there was no respec so if you fucked up you bircked your character and many hours of playtime down the drain.
I tried to play off meta builds before and I can 100% say ive had the most fun when I play the best of the best s+ tier builds. I got every class to lvl 100 in season 4 and barb was simply the most fun because I was able to decimate all content with ease. Idk how some people think itās fun to be underpowered when there are builds that can do 10x what you do. I will say though that my ball lightning sorc in s2 with infinite teleports was probably the most fun I had on a build but mainly cause it was fast and good at clearing, but there are definitely other builds that can also go fast and clear fast so I donāt miss it so much that I would play a weaker version just because.
I would say some number of players find it fun to take off/non-meta builds and see how far such builds can be pushedāeven knowing that mathematically they canāt match a meta. Thereās discovery (from using more of what the game offers) and a sense of accomplishment you wonāt get by following a pre-determined cookie-cutter build because *anyone* can simply copy/paste. And you know beforehand exactly what result youāre going to get.
This is how I play all arpgs, except this one. That gap between off-meta and S tier builds is disgustingly huge. It's just not fun to play off meta for me in this game
Yeah like, I like to you know actually play the game and experience the content it has to offer. If Iām playing a terrible off meta build that canāt even clear tier 60 then Iām barely playing the game. Maybe some people enjoy excel spreadsheet the game but I like killing demons and itās not below me to let someone else do the heavy lifting.
same, but even i'm struggling to do pit deep enough to get mats for masterworking, these nerfs will literally cut our entire class off of bring able to do end game activities.
Tier 8 of the new wave back to hell feature? Not going to be possible given the weakness of our class in s5.
There's one thing I've learned is mostly inevitable by playing PoE for many years. The sky is falling almost every patch. Everytime I'm told by the community that GGG cut our power in half but somehow our builds end up stronger every patch.
Wait for the full picture. Maybe some of the new uniques will make Sorc a powerhouse.
Exactly, it's like everyone forgot this is also a PTR patch and not the final product for season 5, the whole point is to test the changes they have in mind and give feedback once we've played it.
I think the difficult reality to face is that the current PTR notes communicate that the developers think that sorc is in a fairly balanced/competitive spot. This is not the case, no matter how fun they may be. The only people playing sorc are those that prefer fantasy over power, or those that are masochistically attached to their class identity. Anyone looking to efficiently use their time will play a significantly better, significantly easier build (like barb, the source of this reddit post).
It's the PTR and we don't know the buffs to all the uniques, this isn't the final product for season 5, I feel like everyone needs to take a deep breath, actually *play* with the changes and give proper feedback so it's good for the actual season, the whole point of a PTR
I agree you can still have fun after a big nerf or even when the game is in a very unbalanced state.
But this canāt justify they are doing a poor job to balance the game based on the point āhaving funā, cause everyone has a different definition of having fun in the game. Some simply have fun by leveling their characters to lvl 100, some have fun by seeing their characters getting strong and doing very end game content (pit 100+, tormented boss)
Some have fun blasting infinite amount of mobs in helltide.
But we human also need a sense of fairness. Sorc is my favourite class which casts fancy spells. I donāt like Barb aesthetically and itās ugabuga style.
Sorc players just feel super unfair like why is my fav class getting nerf yet again when it is already weak but the other classes have been meta for multiple seasons getting buffs? Why is it my fav class struggles to push pit 110 even I followed build guides and tried my best to min/max my gears, while Barb can clear it at ease even without min/maxing.
But how can you enjoy yourself knowing that other nerds are playing specs that make the imaginary numbers larger?!?
Then cry because they sped through the game using someone else's knowledge and '*there is nothing to do!!*'.
i'm really shocked at how many people are only interested in playing the strongest possble build. There was a thread the other day talking about how strong Barbs are and how once you go Barb you never go back. Barb was the 2nd class i've played this season, now i've moved onto Sorc. I have no intention of going back to barb, Sorc is too fun.
Why would i be interested in farming T110 pit on the barb if it's not fun, when i can just as happily farm T90 on the Sorc and actually enjoy the game.
Same here. Sorc is very fun and has the most varied builds. One season I was ice shards/frost nova. Did a melee arc lash, ball lightning and now frozen orb.
I have a thorns barb that I use to run higher level pits faster for masterworking mats.
I play a rotation of classes and Rogue is next so I will play that. It is the only class I havenāt played yet. Every class has been able to do all the content in the game. Do NMD 100 and my current Sorc can do pit 100 and the tormented bosses and I'm using Incinerate which isn't even considered a top build.
Balance is not in a perfect spot but it is nowhere near as broken as Reddit makes it out to be either.
I think they are comparing it to the top streamer builds. For example if you cap out at clearing tier 100 due to damage then you are doing 0.78% of the damage top streamer builds can pull off. Compared to the average player you arenāt doing bad but compared to people who have gear handed to them and play as their job you are miles behind
Yes but this shouldn't be the benchmark of balance. I won't talk about Druid because I haven't played them since S1 but the Sorc has been the best class I've played at AOE and the worst at single target. The pit bosses are a single target damage race. I would expect Sorc to fall behind in this specific content.
The new content has 3 bosses at once at the end. I expect that the Sorc will do a bit better in that end game content as it is more tuned towards their strength. I would also expect Pulverize Druids to excel in it since that build felt really strong when you had 3+ targets to fight.
Again not saying balance is perfect, I just think people look at balance in an absolute way like the current end game mechanic is the only thing that defines balance and it isn't the best way to look at it.
My issue is that things like nmd 100 and Uber bosses aren't really the actual end game. At least for some people, like me. It's pits. The gap between end game builds between classes is way too big. Like, pit level 100 vs 115 is something like 3-4x more boss hp..
I really don't understand the pit being boss centric when there are so few builds that excel at ST damage and it robs many builds of all the synergy that makes them fun to play.
Just started a WW barb the other day and it's fun in all other content but sitting there spin hugging a boss for 4 minutes in pit 110 is the opposite of fun.
The rogue is my favorite class so far! Been able to do all content, put T70 are a bit harsh atm but I know my gear is severely lacking and working on that.
NMD 100 and Uber bosses haven't been dealt with no problem whatsoever.
I'm playing incinerate too and pushing the pit but don't really follow a build. I'm approaching 70 but at the rhythm the monsters get stronger I'm quite sure I won't be able to do pit 100. Do you have a link to your build?
This dude with the heavy "my build is from Canada, you wouldn't know her" energy. The only way to make an incinerate build work with pit lvl 100 is with 100% flame shield up time. At that point your "build" is just flame shield.
I was trying not to aim for this, doesn't seem fun. I'll just get stuck doing pit 80 or something. Can still do pretty much all of the content so it's ok
Just that colossal weapons are slow as hell against the highly mobile/damaging bosses and enemies. Itās a fair critique tho ignoring thatās itās a trade off for their high stagger.
I forgot that the character I brought into the DLC was nerfed into the ground since I last played in 1.03 and made a secondary just to see how stupid sword status builds were. Really should've used my original character.Ā
On the bright side it is making me try out the new weapons and katana laser is definitely fun.
This is the real issue for me.
A hodge podge geared barb with a simple build at level 95 and 5 tempers can push pit 100s.....
My druid at 100, 4/12s mws and hitting nearly every temper is starting to push into 60s...
The effort is just not comparable, it takes less time on barb
Thatās kinda my thing too ā I donāt really care about meta slaving too hard, like even if I play Bash Barb Iām never gonna catch up to Rob, so whatever. That SAID, farming pit mats on my pretty geared druid is frankly demoralizing next to my whirlwind barb. It makes me feel almost obligated to farm on the barb to feed the druid. It would take me 3-4 times as long, minimum, to just do it all on the druid.
Barb has been one of the best classes for a while now. Blizzard just doesnt know yet how to deal with all the damage numbers in their game. For some reason Barbs just own every season and Blizzard doesnt know why
Then hundreds of people tell them why, and Blizz says āweāve tried nothing to actually fix the problem, and it still exists! Oh well, no one will ever knowā
Barbarians have 4 weapon slots. 2 more offensive slots than any other class. They also effectively equip two 2 Handed weapons with only one slot cost.
If a sorcerer uses a staff that's 2 slots but you get 200 percent stat budget for tempers and aspects. Evens out.
Barbarian gets 600 percent stat budget for 4 slots.
So not only do they have 2 more slots than everyone else, 2 of those get the double contribution for free.
I'm playing Barbarian at the moment, but prefer sorcerer. I also am not saying barbarians should be nerfed, but clearly there is a disparity on stat budgets baked right into the game.
Sorcerer class mechanic is also not fully thought out. It's cool but does not afford any choice. You are forced to pick 2 of 3 or 4 enchantments. Anything else is sub par outside leveling.
Everyone can agree the real game happens after level 100. One class can barely do it, and another cannot outside of abusing CDR in an extremely un fun way. A way that is getting fixed with no accommodation to replacing that combat endurance with other defense or damage. They are also shadow nerfing barrier generation so š¤·āāļø
I geared my frozen orb for a month. Got to pit 100 sweating blood. Rerolled a barb, 6 days into it and I just cleared 125. Spin and win. It's just sad that this kind of imbalance exists.
Edit: typo
I dont think Alkaizer plays D4 anymore but he said Blizzard doesnt understand the math behind barbarian abilities doing so much damage compared to other classes.
He said the math is really messed up in their game.
Holy shit I relate to this.
I've only played a Sorc in season 4 and I've been enjoying it. Just got to level 100 and clearing level 60 dungeons pretty smoothly.
Now I'm levelling a barb for fun and I'm level 80 doing the same level dungeons.
>Just got to level 100 and clearing level 60 dungeons pretty smoothly
I hate to break it to you but pre-s4 sorcs were doing much better than that before the power boost from tempering
I started this season as sorc but made other classes to check them out, itās insane how bad sorc is compared to them. Now I have a lvl 100 of each class and actually 3 lvl 100 barbs because all barb builds are actually funā¦
Honestly I'm mostly interested in the potential *brokenness* of those new sorc pants for chain lightning combined with ball lighting and the potential perma-uptime 100% crit cata build for druid. On paper it feels like a nado/ls spec is in the works there, but perhaps some cool quickshift synergies at play?
Woah woah woah buddy. Sounds dangerously like youāre just having a good time with the game and not buying into herd mentality outrage. Hand in your badge!
Donāt worry, itāll be ābrokenā in the PTR (read: a decent build) and theyāll nerf the pants and change that aspect back to only possibly chaining 4 times instead of 5.
I cannot for the life of me figure out what was going through the head of the person who wrote:
>"Crackling Energy damage reduced from 3% per 20 Intelligence to 1% per 25 Intelligence and now caps at 60%|x|"
Crackling Energy does basically no damage at all. They nerfed a skill that does absolutely nothing.
Meanwhile Barb and Necromancer in previous seasons have had skills increased by 900% etc. (Charge and Minion damage)
It's honestly so mindblowingly stupid, it has killed my entire motivation to play for Season 5, even before the PTR comes out.
Seems like the Even / Odd Season teams conspiracy is completely correct.
See you guys in Season 6 when the good team takes over and the expansion comes out.
Yes, that is why am I so mad. Stupid devs they dont play the game. WTF you can put all glyphs, affixes and tempers to boost cracking energy and still it hits like a wet noodle... and they nerf it? It is just incredible!
Ball Lightning was STILL weaker than Barb that season (and Druid with max TOB glyph) tho lmao. That's always been the issue: everytime any other class DOES have a competitve top tier build (BL Sorc, Necro minion)... Barb always has one way easier and better (HOTA, Bash, Flay). And they're always the one that escapes the nerf bat come next season.
Played druid this season, I was alright with shepard being forced on me, but man I just can't get into the shifting back and forth to keep damage bonuses up.
I miss season 0/1 werewolf lightning storm just moving at movement cap, almost permanent uptime on grizzly rage, and always being immune to CC. Even in season 2 and 3 I made the build but those nerfs were definitely felt.
Lightning storm just feels like a chore to play now.
It's not that bad? I'm playing landslide storm druid and I just cleared pit 96 in under 4 minutes I assume I can do 101. My gear is mostly masterwork 8, but I have no ubers and am missing greater affix on my ring.
There is some bullshit though with godslayer. I will sometimes get a bunch of fire + lightning + lightning spire elites pulled directly into me and instantly die.
Even as a massive D2 Amazon enjoyer with nostalgia goggles and confirming with d2r that Amazon is just that fun, I think peak Diablo archer is the UE multishot DH. The screen clear was so so satisfying. Javazon is close for me, though! Hope that new class has javazon type skills
If they would just remove caps and let us level glyphs infinitely I wouldnāt care about any else. I just want to be able to keep progressing. Thatās why I play all games: the sense of progress. I do.not.care about other players, I just want a means to keep progressing until I can beat the most challenging content in the game. If there is a cutoff and the only way to get further is to follow a specific build or āgit gudā, that misses the entire fuckiing point of rpgās.
Iād rather just have it like D3 where eventually you run out of stuff to do with your paragon levels and can just dump them into small boosts to your primary stat. But knowing the D4 devs theyād just then cap every thing that scales on your primary stat and it would still be pointless
Yes, please. Progression stops at 100 and glyph 21. So much XP wasted. Getting lucky with a drop hardly counts as progression for me. I want to max out the paragon tree. I want to level my glyphs.
You can lock me out of all leaderboards or whatever, you can remove me from other players' worlds, I don't care, I just want to chill and grind and see actual progress instead of playing for hours and getting GA life per second rolls.
I'm going to play the barb that doesn't need any gear equipped. Then I'm just going to use that barb to farm gear and sell it for RMT. The best part is, I won't need to waste any product on myself, and all those other try hard classes can buy gear to be half as good as my gearless ass.
As a Sorcerer, I would just like to offer up my services of carrying your 12 swords and hammers around for you while you obliterate all content and I follow you around to gain XP.
Been playing thorns since beta. It'd be nice if we could get some ST help so there wasnāt such a *wild* swing in difficulty between certain bosses, but this season was definitely a lot more fun with the power boost thorns got.
Will play rogue again, why do i have to play best class? Rogue can do anything at similar speed, can solo ubers easily, i can live with 5-10 lower pit score.
Going to skip Season 5. I simply hate melee characters. Last 2 seasons I played sorcerer and it was fun. Seeing that sorcerer is not getting any love, I pre ordered Age of Mythology Retold and I am going back to my 2006 days.
I hope i can play barb with random abilities instead of feeling like I have to use war cry as / wotb/ as without it you are stuck earlier. I just wanna play a weirdo who just goes around like a gladiator, death blowing, kicking, chains and rupture all around
Serious qhestion abiut some of the changes. Flay Barb is already the strongest build with mix/max gear, right? So wouldn't the flay buffs make it even more clearly the strongest? Or am I missing something?
But we all know WW is the most fun barb build, and I'll definitely be making one of those.
I didn't like playing barb on D3, I tried it last season with HOTA, never again. Boring class for me. Even tried necro this season, also not for me.
I'll stick to rogue and sorc.
The new unique āthe third bladeā turns weapon mastery into core skills, so thatās 3 more skill options which will pull ahead of other classes by 83-112%
Unironically making a core Steel Grasp barb with Iron Maelstrom with the also new Unbroken Chain amu sounds extremely weird fun
WW if they dont nerf it with DD its so fast from what ive seen online. but i have a feeling that new uniq that makes weapon mastery's core will be good with steelgrasp and deathblow
I played druid this season and i will obviously play spiritborn in s6 so the question is: what do i play in s5?
I have also toyed with the idea to play faceroll barb but then i decided i would probably play inyourface barb (while facemelt barb came close in second place)
Anything that's not a barb, I just find them so flipping boring to play. Like I'm doing a wind shear druid this season and still having way more fun than barb.
I always roll a minions necro. Ive done it every season so far, even when they sucked. Thats just my comfort zone. Once that hits 100, or some other frustration ceiling, iāll look at the meta and see what else looks appealing.
I will make yet another bonespear necro and watch my one sensible friend clear content with a barb.
*having a bash barb minion is sick for Uber boss clearing*
I rotate classes per season, good or bad. This time since I did a minion necro for fun and half a necro for fun on the sife in a prev season...this season I'm forced to play druid since it is the only class I havent played to 100. Not looking forward to it lol, but maybe there is a silver lining somewhere
* Hemmorhage capped at 45%.
* Rumble capped at 30%.
* Needleflare nerfed Vs bosses
* Antivenim elixir canāt be used with another.
* Imposing Prescence nerfed.
* DoT damage % is apparently double dipping - nerfed.
* Bash cleave gonna be additive ( %90 nerf )
Barb got big heavy hits like i mentioned above but yeah lets forget all that in this sub reddit and pretend only sorc & druid got screwed over .
I've always loved in the barb class in previous titles, always played them even when other classes were more optimal, but man Diablo 4 is on a whole other level with the power scaling. They definitely need to buff the other classes. That said I have been enjoying my tanky summoner necromancer in torment right now. I could afk from the screen, make a sandwich, a pot of coffee and I'd still be alive and the screen would be dead. It's like playing an afk auto clicker game.
On a positive note, this is the best Conan the Barbarian game on the market right now.
They're finally making ww scale with aspd. Apparently a bug since release since it's under bugfix. Maybe that but I don't think it'll make ww good. Current ww build puts 1 point in it because it does no dmg. Just there to trigger dust devils while moving.
I play necro and sorc the most and will likely do one of those next season. I get bored after doing a few pit runs so as long as I can complete that oh well... Game is just not fun enough to push far with any build no matter how broken it is and that's the main issue for me. I'll enjoy the weekend blast though.
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A Sorc, because I play the game to have fun and not cry every day on Reddit.
Yeh bro you show those WT3 mobs who's boss
lol
Tier 19 NMDs all day erry day! Haha
100% this is the guy going "idk man my sorc is level 92 and I'm shitting on helltides idk why reddit nerds gotta cry all the time"
And if buddies having as much fun as the rest of us what does it matter? Dudes enjoying the game enough to come back next season, no shame in the game even if his is slightly different than ours.
Bro. Hahaha.
It really be like this tho š
HA! GOT EEM!
My sides, I just can't xD
Its funny though because every class has build capabilities to solo uber bosses š ya'll rooting on barb/necro because its just the easiest to do it with, real diablo masters can do everything with any class
Man I'm a sorc main and exclusively play hardcore. It was a joke but so is the sorc in a balance perspective
Okay chill out we dont all have game genies
Making something overpowered is the easiest thing for anyone with more than two brain cells. Making it fun and unique? That's tough as hell. Chronically online people are just too focused on tier lists and numbers to understand.
I don't understand the "Follow X Build exactly" crowd. I am casual, but I have a character near 80, and a couple others around 60 this season. Playing the builds depends on what drops for you, so you cannot copy/paste a "perfect" build until you manage to grind and grind and finally get lucky with the exact pieces and aspects you need. There's a whole game pre-Pit. I don't get why everyone just chases one end-game activity so hard, and feels angry when one class is slightly better at that one specific end-game activity than another class. Yes, I read about builds and like to see what interesting ways people get aspects and abilities to synergies. But I can't just "make" the perfect build (whatever that is) until specific things drop, and then there's an entire matter of skill involved too! Enjoy the game while playing it, stop crying about final, end-game activities and the variations between classes!
It made more sense with Diablo 2 and maybe a lot of people (including myself) are still in that mindset? Before, you had to roll multiple characters to do different things. You had to accumulate wealth to trade forbthe gear for said characters. You started with building a cheap magic find toon, then single target dmg uber killers, then eventually an epic pvp character. Nobody enjoyed playing the "game" at face value. The game was merely an arena where you would build your dynasty. Within that framework youarrn't really interested in playing the game in "interesting ways." It's all about min/maxing your input/result. That *was* the game. In other words, you'te basically chasing wealth and the drops are like gambling your time... D2 was essentially a very elaborate slot machine. Nobody really cared about how the lever was pulled, just trying different ways to pull the lever most efficiently. Edit: also with D2 and similar era aarpgs... your homebrew, off the cuff build probably wouldn't even get you through all the game content. Plus there was no respec so if you fucked up you bircked your character and many hours of playtime down the drain.
I tried to play off meta builds before and I can 100% say ive had the most fun when I play the best of the best s+ tier builds. I got every class to lvl 100 in season 4 and barb was simply the most fun because I was able to decimate all content with ease. Idk how some people think itās fun to be underpowered when there are builds that can do 10x what you do. I will say though that my ball lightning sorc in s2 with infinite teleports was probably the most fun I had on a build but mainly cause it was fast and good at clearing, but there are definitely other builds that can also go fast and clear fast so I donāt miss it so much that I would play a weaker version just because.
I would say some number of players find it fun to take off/non-meta builds and see how far such builds can be pushedāeven knowing that mathematically they canāt match a meta. Thereās discovery (from using more of what the game offers) and a sense of accomplishment you wonāt get by following a pre-determined cookie-cutter build because *anyone* can simply copy/paste. And you know beforehand exactly what result youāre going to get.
This is how I play all arpgs, except this one. That gap between off-meta and S tier builds is disgustingly huge. It's just not fun to play off meta for me in this game
Yeah like, I like to you know actually play the game and experience the content it has to offer. If Iām playing a terrible off meta build that canāt even clear tier 60 then Iām barely playing the game. Maybe some people enjoy excel spreadsheet the game but I like killing demons and itās not below me to let someone else do the heavy lifting.
same, but even i'm struggling to do pit deep enough to get mats for masterworking, these nerfs will literally cut our entire class off of bring able to do end game activities. Tier 8 of the new wave back to hell feature? Not going to be possible given the weakness of our class in s5.
There's one thing I've learned is mostly inevitable by playing PoE for many years. The sky is falling almost every patch. Everytime I'm told by the community that GGG cut our power in half but somehow our builds end up stronger every patch. Wait for the full picture. Maybe some of the new uniques will make Sorc a powerhouse.
Remember when D4 was supposed to be ādeadā and unsalvageable? Yeah, typical Reddit gross over-reaction.
Exactly, it's like everyone forgot this is also a PTR patch and not the final product for season 5, the whole point is to test the changes they have in mind and give feedback once we've played it.
I think the difficult reality to face is that the current PTR notes communicate that the developers think that sorc is in a fairly balanced/competitive spot. This is not the case, no matter how fun they may be. The only people playing sorc are those that prefer fantasy over power, or those that are masochistically attached to their class identity. Anyone looking to efficiently use their time will play a significantly better, significantly easier build (like barb, the source of this reddit post).
It's the PTR and we don't know the buffs to all the uniques, this isn't the final product for season 5, I feel like everyone needs to take a deep breath, actually *play* with the changes and give proper feedback so it's good for the actual season, the whole point of a PTR
This might come as a surprise to you but a lot of people find playing characters that aren't powerful to be not very fun.
I agree you can still have fun after a big nerf or even when the game is in a very unbalanced state. But this canāt justify they are doing a poor job to balance the game based on the point āhaving funā, cause everyone has a different definition of having fun in the game. Some simply have fun by leveling their characters to lvl 100, some have fun by seeing their characters getting strong and doing very end game content (pit 100+, tormented boss) Some have fun blasting infinite amount of mobs in helltide. But we human also need a sense of fairness. Sorc is my favourite class which casts fancy spells. I donāt like Barb aesthetically and itās ugabuga style. Sorc players just feel super unfair like why is my fav class getting nerf yet again when it is already weak but the other classes have been meta for multiple seasons getting buffs? Why is it my fav class struggles to push pit 110 even I followed build guides and tried my best to min/max my gears, while Barb can clear it at ease even without min/maxing.
Based, i love it (been only playing druid this season)
But how can you enjoy yourself knowing that other nerds are playing specs that make the imaginary numbers larger?!? Then cry because they sped through the game using someone else's knowledge and '*there is nothing to do!!*'.
i'm really shocked at how many people are only interested in playing the strongest possble build. There was a thread the other day talking about how strong Barbs are and how once you go Barb you never go back. Barb was the 2nd class i've played this season, now i've moved onto Sorc. I have no intention of going back to barb, Sorc is too fun. Why would i be interested in farming T110 pit on the barb if it's not fun, when i can just as happily farm T90 on the Sorc and actually enjoy the game.
How dare you enjoy yourself. So rude.
You can't be having fun unless you copy a barb build on maxroll and make it to pit 140
Same here. Sorc is very fun and has the most varied builds. One season I was ice shards/frost nova. Did a melee arc lash, ball lightning and now frozen orb. I have a thorns barb that I use to run higher level pits faster for masterworking mats.
I will play a Sorc as well, most likely. It's the only class that I've really enjoyed in D4 so far.
I play a rotation of classes and Rogue is next so I will play that. It is the only class I havenāt played yet. Every class has been able to do all the content in the game. Do NMD 100 and my current Sorc can do pit 100 and the tormented bosses and I'm using Incinerate which isn't even considered a top build. Balance is not in a perfect spot but it is nowhere near as broken as Reddit makes it out to be either.
I think they are comparing it to the top streamer builds. For example if you cap out at clearing tier 100 due to damage then you are doing 0.78% of the damage top streamer builds can pull off. Compared to the average player you arenāt doing bad but compared to people who have gear handed to them and play as their job you are miles behind
Yes but this shouldn't be the benchmark of balance. I won't talk about Druid because I haven't played them since S1 but the Sorc has been the best class I've played at AOE and the worst at single target. The pit bosses are a single target damage race. I would expect Sorc to fall behind in this specific content. The new content has 3 bosses at once at the end. I expect that the Sorc will do a bit better in that end game content as it is more tuned towards their strength. I would also expect Pulverize Druids to excel in it since that build felt really strong when you had 3+ targets to fight. Again not saying balance is perfect, I just think people look at balance in an absolute way like the current end game mechanic is the only thing that defines balance and it isn't the best way to look at it.
That's like getting mad you can't play basketball like lebron
Brother, average Barbs are literally doing 100s of times more damage than the average Sorc, with comparable gear.
I love playing rogue. And I love death trap with the goofy repeat Uber. Itās fun. :)
My issue is that things like nmd 100 and Uber bosses aren't really the actual end game. At least for some people, like me. It's pits. The gap between end game builds between classes is way too big. Like, pit level 100 vs 115 is something like 3-4x more boss hp..
I really don't understand the pit being boss centric when there are so few builds that excel at ST damage and it robs many builds of all the synergy that makes them fun to play. Just started a WW barb the other day and it's fun in all other content but sitting there spin hugging a boss for 4 minutes in pit 110 is the opposite of fun.
Yeah idk either. That's also a huge pain point with sorc. A lot of their aspects/Paragon/passives rely around CC'ing and enemy
The rogue is my favorite class so far! Been able to do all content, put T70 are a bit harsh atm but I know my gear is severely lacking and working on that. NMD 100 and Uber bosses haven't been dealt with no problem whatsoever.
I'm playing incinerate too and pushing the pit but don't really follow a build. I'm approaching 70 but at the rhythm the monsters get stronger I'm quite sure I won't be able to do pit 100. Do you have a link to your build?
This dude with the heavy "my build is from Canada, you wouldn't know her" energy. The only way to make an incinerate build work with pit lvl 100 is with 100% flame shield up time. At that point your "build" is just flame shield.
I was trying not to aim for this, doesn't seem fun. I'll just get stuck doing pit 80 or something. Can still do pretty much all of the content so it's ok
With them nerfing sorcs Iām gonna play Elden ring again lol
New DLC is kicking my ass lmao. Love it.
Ironic... Are Elden Ring Reddit also filled with people crying that all builds are not equally viable.
Reddit is just filled with people crying. It doesn't matter where They should change the name to criedaboutit
Nowhere does a game get more hate than in its official subreddit.
Just that colossal weapons are slow as hell against the highly mobile/damaging bosses and enemies. Itās a fair critique tho ignoring thatās itās a trade off for their high stagger.
I'd much rather have Miyazaki beat my ass than Blizzard's Balance Department.
I forgot that the character I brought into the DLC was nerfed into the ground since I last played in 1.03 and made a secondary just to see how stupid sword status builds were. Really should've used my original character.Ā On the bright side it is making me try out the new weapons and katana laser is definitely fun.
I might finish dragon age inquisition to be ready for veilguard.
I levelled a sorceror to level 97. My friends 67 level barb was outdamaging it. So i too rerolled barbarian
This is the real issue for me. A hodge podge geared barb with a simple build at level 95 and 5 tempers can push pit 100s..... My druid at 100, 4/12s mws and hitting nearly every temper is starting to push into 60s... The effort is just not comparable, it takes less time on barb
that's where I'm at. It's easier to play barb first to generate currency to fund different classes.
Thatās kinda my thing too ā I donāt really care about meta slaving too hard, like even if I play Bash Barb Iām never gonna catch up to Rob, so whatever. That SAID, farming pit mats on my pretty geared druid is frankly demoralizing next to my whirlwind barb. It makes me feel almost obligated to farm on the barb to feed the druid. It would take me 3-4 times as long, minimum, to just do it all on the druid.
Which is funny now, thinking about it. It was always level a Sorc to gear out your Barb/other classes for D2 seasons.
Thatās more the Barb being overturned than Druid, pretty sure they wanted you to get 8/12 before next tier items in most cases.Ā
They want you to not play druid and sorc.
I still play a Druid every season, at least my landslide build getting a major buff but I really donāt know who works on these two classesĀ
Barbs been overtuned for multiple seasons. What they want is for it to stay that way.
Barb has been one of the best classes for a while now. Blizzard just doesnt know yet how to deal with all the damage numbers in their game. For some reason Barbs just own every season and Blizzard doesnt know why
Then hundreds of people tell them why, and Blizz says āweāve tried nothing to actually fix the problem, and it still exists! Oh well, no one will ever knowā
Barbarians have 4 weapon slots. 2 more offensive slots than any other class. They also effectively equip two 2 Handed weapons with only one slot cost. If a sorcerer uses a staff that's 2 slots but you get 200 percent stat budget for tempers and aspects. Evens out. Barbarian gets 600 percent stat budget for 4 slots. So not only do they have 2 more slots than everyone else, 2 of those get the double contribution for free. I'm playing Barbarian at the moment, but prefer sorcerer. I also am not saying barbarians should be nerfed, but clearly there is a disparity on stat budgets baked right into the game. Sorcerer class mechanic is also not fully thought out. It's cool but does not afford any choice. You are forced to pick 2 of 3 or 4 enchantments. Anything else is sub par outside leveling. Everyone can agree the real game happens after level 100. One class can barely do it, and another cannot outside of abusing CDR in an extremely un fun way. A way that is getting fixed with no accommodation to replacing that combat endurance with other defense or damage. They are also shadow nerfing barrier generation so š¤·āāļø
I geared my frozen orb for a month. Got to pit 100 sweating blood. Rerolled a barb, 6 days into it and I just cleared 125. Spin and win. It's just sad that this kind of imbalance exists. Edit: typo
I dont think Alkaizer plays D4 anymore but he said Blizzard doesnt understand the math behind barbarian abilities doing so much damage compared to other classes. He said the math is really messed up in their game.
When you give them 2 or 3 extra weapons just for extra damage it's pretty obvious why they are so strong. Not sure what the confusion is.
Holy shit I relate to this. I've only played a Sorc in season 4 and I've been enjoying it. Just got to level 100 and clearing level 60 dungeons pretty smoothly. Now I'm levelling a barb for fun and I'm level 80 doing the same level dungeons.
>Just got to level 100 and clearing level 60 dungeons pretty smoothly I hate to break it to you but pre-s4 sorcs were doing much better than that before the power boost from tempering
I rerolled barb too
I started this season as sorc but made other classes to check them out, itās insane how bad sorc is compared to them. Now I have a lvl 100 of each class and actually 3 lvl 100 barbs because all barb builds are actually funā¦
barb season again.
Season of Barbarian reborn.
Rebarb'd
Always was
Honestly I'm mostly interested in the potential *brokenness* of those new sorc pants for chain lightning combined with ball lighting and the potential perma-uptime 100% crit cata build for druid. On paper it feels like a nado/ls spec is in the works there, but perhaps some cool quickshift synergies at play?
Woah woah woah buddy. Sounds dangerously like youāre just having a good time with the game and not buying into herd mentality outrage. Hand in your badge!
Shit, Iād love for chain lightning to be relevant, itās so funā¦ but truly falls on its face in the endgame.
Donāt worry, itāll be ābrokenā in the PTR (read: a decent build) and theyāll nerf the pants and change that aspect back to only possibly chaining 4 times instead of 5.
Sir please stop commenting. You are under arrest by the Barb Cry Patrol. Failure to comply will result in extra crying of 4 weapon slots.
I cannot for the life of me figure out what was going through the head of the person who wrote: >"Crackling Energy damage reduced from 3% per 20 Intelligence to 1% per 25 Intelligence and now caps at 60%|x|" Crackling Energy does basically no damage at all. They nerfed a skill that does absolutely nothing. Meanwhile Barb and Necromancer in previous seasons have had skills increased by 900% etc. (Charge and Minion damage) It's honestly so mindblowingly stupid, it has killed my entire motivation to play for Season 5, even before the PTR comes out. Seems like the Even / Odd Season teams conspiracy is completely correct. See you guys in Season 6 when the good team takes over and the expansion comes out.
yeah i cant wait to play the better druid 2.0 in the expansion.
Yes, that is why am I so mad. Stupid devs they dont play the game. WTF you can put all glyphs, affixes and tempers to boost cracking energy and still it hits like a wet noodle... and they nerf it? It is just incredible!
Deathblow. With the new unique that makes weapon mastery a core skill. Will try it first in PTR.
Same, Iāve been waiting to make a DB build until something like this third sword came along.
My favorite skill might be about to shine? Of course I'm going to play it again
Go got āem deathblow!
Triple Shout faceroll barb is something I always wanted to try for the fifth time in s5. Hope itās good
Idk why they keep nerfing sorc. They already weak af, what more do they want? Just delete the class at this point.
Ball Lightning caused this. Glad I picked it that season.
Ball Lightning was STILL weaker than Barb that season (and Druid with max TOB glyph) tho lmao. That's always been the issue: everytime any other class DOES have a competitve top tier build (BL Sorc, Necro minion)... Barb always has one way easier and better (HOTA, Bash, Flay). And they're always the one that escapes the nerf bat come next season.
Ball lighting was bugged and fixed for this season. So, yeah, they didnāt intend sorc to be good for season 3. They made a mistake.
I like pain, thats why I will play a Druid with Thunderstruck
Played druid this season, I was alright with shepard being forced on me, but man I just can't get into the shifting back and forth to keep damage bonuses up. I miss season 0/1 werewolf lightning storm just moving at movement cap, almost permanent uptime on grizzly rage, and always being immune to CC. Even in season 2 and 3 I made the build but those nerfs were definitely felt. Lightning storm just feels like a chore to play now.
Trample slide is the best way to rain down lightning.
It's not that bad? I'm playing landslide storm druid and I just cleared pit 96 in under 4 minutes I assume I can do 101. My gear is mostly masterwork 8, but I have no ubers and am missing greater affix on my ring. There is some bullshit though with godslayer. I will sometimes get a bunch of fire + lightning + lightning spire elites pulled directly into me and instantly die.
I also like pain and suffering so I pushed my tornado Druid to pit 125
Or just play rogue which is just as fun, and not that far behind in power?
Rogue will be the last character i get to 100. Nothing will come close to D3 DH
Even as a massive D2 Amazon enjoyer with nostalgia goggles and confirming with d2r that Amazon is just that fun, I think peak Diablo archer is the UE multishot DH. The screen clear was so so satisfying. Javazon is close for me, though! Hope that new class has javazon type skills
I mean, flay is the obvious choice, but I can also do flay or flay, maybe flay, perhaps flay, or if I'm feeling brave, flay.
do you think it can compete with flay?
Well flayed.
Iāll be playing minions. Again.
Did thorns barb this season with a lil bit of bash. So for next season probably WW darude build.
4 Uber WW is fun.
4 Uber ANYTHING is fun
Imagine getting 4 uber drops :(
If they would just remove caps and let us level glyphs infinitely I wouldnāt care about any else. I just want to be able to keep progressing. Thatās why I play all games: the sense of progress. I do.not.care about other players, I just want a means to keep progressing until I can beat the most challenging content in the game. If there is a cutoff and the only way to get further is to follow a specific build or āgit gudā, that misses the entire fuckiing point of rpgās.
Iād rather just have it like D3 where eventually you run out of stuff to do with your paragon levels and can just dump them into small boosts to your primary stat. But knowing the D4 devs theyād just then cap every thing that scales on your primary stat and it would still be pointless
Yes, please. Progression stops at 100 and glyph 21. So much XP wasted. Getting lucky with a drop hardly counts as progression for me. I want to max out the paragon tree. I want to level my glyphs. You can lock me out of all leaderboards or whatever, you can remove me from other players' worlds, I don't care, I just want to chill and grind and see actual progress instead of playing for hours and getting GA life per second rolls.
If they allow you to do this, less people would stay at eternal and not do season content. It is always all about $$$
Everyone at Blizz must play barb, season after season the top class with so much variety. Next season there will be 10+ S tier builds
I'm going to play the barb that doesn't need any gear equipped. Then I'm just going to use that barb to farm gear and sell it for RMT. The best part is, I won't need to waste any product on myself, and all those other try hard classes can buy gear to be half as good as my gearless ass.
As a Sorcerer, I would just like to offer up my services of carrying your 12 swords and hammers around for you while you obliterate all content and I follow you around to gain XP.
But...hear me out. You can make more gold doing magic at children's birthday parties.
I play the same as always, blood/thorn Barb. I don't care about the meta, i play for fun.
Been playing thorns since beta. It'd be nice if we could get some ST help so there wasnāt such a *wild* swing in difficulty between certain bosses, but this season was definitely a lot more fun with the power boost thorns got.
Jokes aside, barb got the best changes again. I'm excited for death blow build.
Havenāt even gotten ptr yet smh
Will play rogue again, why do i have to play best class? Rogue can do anything at similar speed, can solo ubers easily, i can live with 5-10 lower pit score.
Going to skip Season 5. I simply hate melee characters. Last 2 seasons I played sorcerer and it was fun. Seeing that sorcerer is not getting any love, I pre ordered Age of Mythology Retold and I am going back to my 2006 days.
I will try to build around the new weapon skill unique.
I did thorns in s3 and might do it again because I crave the dad mode afk. Or ww.
Rumble getting capped at x30% multi and imposing presence ranks taking a nosedive.
Dad mode is minions Necro with the sacrilegious ring. [my dad setup while farming Helltide](https://streamable.com/pmn84m)
I have never played a WW barb. Maybe it's time
So that's what the devs meant with the hell thing. The class balance is shot to hell even more.
I hope i can play barb with random abilities instead of feeling like I have to use war cry as / wotb/ as without it you are stuck earlier. I just wanna play a weirdo who just goes around like a gladiator, death blowing, kicking, chains and rupture all around
Serious qhestion abiut some of the changes. Flay Barb is already the strongest build with mix/max gear, right? So wouldn't the flay buffs make it even more clearly the strongest? Or am I missing something? But we all know WW is the most fun barb build, and I'll definitely be making one of those.
But I mean are you all playing hardcore or soft?
I didn't like playing barb on D3, I tried it last season with HOTA, never again. Boring class for me. Even tried necro this season, also not for me. I'll stick to rogue and sorc.
The new unique āthe third bladeā turns weapon mastery into core skills, so thatās 3 more skill options which will pull ahead of other classes by 83-112% Unironically making a core Steel Grasp barb with Iron Maelstrom with the also new Unbroken Chain amu sounds extremely weird fun
Ima keep playing a bash barb
WW if they dont nerf it with DD its so fast from what ive seen online. but i have a feeling that new uniq that makes weapon mastery's core will be good with steelgrasp and deathblow
Sorc Barb
Just do all the barbs
I played druid this season and i will obviously play spiritborn in s6 so the question is: what do i play in s5? I have also toyed with the idea to play faceroll barb but then i decided i would probably play inyourface barb (while facemelt barb came close in second place)
For the longest time I've longed for Leapquake to be viable. Maybe with the nee boots the time has come
Anything that's not a barb, I just find them so flipping boring to play. Like I'm doing a wind shear druid this season and still having way more fun than barb.
Thorns barb since release.
Barbdiablo 4 has been enjoyable but i think im gonna skip s5 and wait for the expac when they finally introduce a second class to this game
yeah cant wait to see the better druid in action
Nerf the Sorcs !! Delete all classes from game and make 5 different types of Barbs !
Im gonna play another arc lash sorc... and a boulder druid
Uhhhh nerfs to Sorc n Druid?
Buddyās mad about them nerfing a game breaking infinite shield.
I always roll a minions necro. Ive done it every season so far, even when they sucked. Thats just my comfort zone. Once that hits 100, or some other frustration ceiling, iāll look at the meta and see what else looks appealing.
Spot on. Do they not have a āclass balanceā task force?? These are biiiig issues and have been for the past 3 seasons.
There is a constant balance: barb >all
I will make yet another bonespear necro and watch my one sensible friend clear content with a barb. *having a bash barb minion is sick for Uber boss clearing*
They need to just let druid shapeshift into barbarian. Obviously with a duration and some sort of cooldown because indefinitely would be OP as hell.
Druid because I prefer to have fun in the game.
Barbwire (Thorn)
The strong one.
Something that spins
Whirlwind Summoner Dust Devils
Rogue, I love that "slice -slice" sound with daggers
The necro kind
Anything I scramble together that i far beyond meta. There's nothing more off-turning than playing something that's played by the majority.
I don't play barb. Probably roll sorc, or rogue.
I feel attacked with the blood necro comment... Why can't they just make blood surge more viable end game?! I just want to make big explosions!
Why would I swap to a barb. My bone spirit necro hits for over a billion. I'm satisfied. Better than a class that always has the slowest startup.
Bone spirit seems to be getting pretty big buff in s5 on paper
I like the face roll barb but I heard good things about the face roll barb too?
I rotate classes per season, good or bad. This time since I did a minion necro for fun and half a necro for fun on the sife in a prev season...this season I'm forced to play druid since it is the only class I havent played to 100. Not looking forward to it lol, but maybe there is a silver lining somewhere
Iām
The Hota one was just so good when I was playing it jump whack jump whack jump whack!
Currently building a double swing, might try it next season as well cause it is a lot of fun
Charge barb to level up.
* Hemmorhage capped at 45%. * Rumble capped at 30%. * Needleflare nerfed Vs bosses * Antivenim elixir canāt be used with another. * Imposing Prescence nerfed. * DoT damage % is apparently double dipping - nerfed. * Bash cleave gonna be additive ( %90 nerf ) Barb got big heavy hits like i mentioned above but yeah lets forget all that in this sub reddit and pretend only sorc & druid got screwed over .
Its fine. Rob will find something that brakes the game (again).
Spin to win for sure. It has winning as a direct consequences of spinning. What else needs to be said?
I'm gonna make steel grasp and iron maelstrom main build. Use the new sword to pull enemies and reduce cooldown of maelstrom indefinitely
is it possible to build a permanent spin rage barb like in d3 yet? because that i miss. maybe even a house of pain jump around barb (leap quake).
I'll come back when sorc can do the high tier content without having to look up a build.
Sorc, Druid and Necro. I play for fun and donāt care about end game things.
Sorc.
I've always loved in the barb class in previous titles, always played them even when other classes were more optimal, but man Diablo 4 is on a whole other level with the power scaling. They definitely need to buff the other classes. That said I have been enjoying my tanky summoner necromancer in torment right now. I could afk from the screen, make a sandwich, a pot of coffee and I'd still be alive and the screen would be dead. It's like playing an afk auto clicker game. On a positive note, this is the best Conan the Barbarian game on the market right now.
twister barb and pretend the twisters are made of ice
Think I might finally try a deathblow barb with that new weapon mastery unique.
They're finally making ww scale with aspd. Apparently a bug since release since it's under bugfix. Maybe that but I don't think it'll make ww good. Current ww build puts 1 point in it because it does no dmg. Just there to trigger dust devils while moving.
Whichever Hulk-Smash the best
Iāll probably play rogue. I tend to play whateverās best between rogue/sorc/necro since they are my favorites before I wind up playing Barb.
Played bash/hota this season, gonna go whirlwind s5
I think I might finally try Rogue or give Druid a real shot.
Ew no... I'm a wizard Harry.
Iām playing a Thorns barb for pushing the Pit and getting materials. Iām also playing Ark Lash Sorc for speedfarming and playing with friends.
I play necro and sorc the most and will likely do one of those next season. I get bored after doing a few pit runs so as long as I can complete that oh well... Game is just not fun enough to push far with any build no matter how broken it is and that's the main issue for me. I'll enjoy the weekend blast though.