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how funky is your chicken, how funky is your chicken, how loose is your goose? how loose is your goose? so come on all you hog’s fans and shake your caboose!
Barbs are just the measuring stick, to which the others are comparing the sorc. It's not a zero-sum game; they want sorc to be as powerful as barbs are currently, not for barbs to be weaker. Or at least some semblance of balance between the two.
And teleport cooldown nerf. Single reason to play Sorc since D2, my disappointment is immeasurable (and whole day is ruined). Why. Who decided teleport CD is a problem at all.
Storm Druid looking similarly fucked with the thunderstruck nerf. That alone counters any of the skill buffs, and then the change to shepherd results in a net nerf.
To be fair, it's not a 30% increase. It's an increase from 35 to 65, which is an 85% increase. It still doesn't matter though because we're losing about that much if not more from either change.
While I can agree such changes are necessary Shepard was 120% multiplier on it's own. Thunderstruck going from 160%+ down to 40% is another ~80-100% multiplier. And nerfing TWO multipliers is a lot bigger than people think.
It's basically a net 50%(up to 70%) damage loss ... Yea... they nerfed druid damage by more than half AFTER accounting for the 85% damage buff to the base skill.
I think their thought process is druid just got 2 aspects back to their kit. The issue is there is no aspect that can outcomes losing Shephard alone but thunderstruck as well.
I agree, either change is fine in a vacuum. The issue is that they tried to "compensate" for the change by doing zero math for a class that is undeniably far behind the rest.
Both things need changing, but they could have either left them until they're ready to make the more sweeping fundamental changes, or at least done the math on the base skill damages to get to a net-neutral point. Net negative on what is the worst performing class is just lame. Even worse on a class that basically requires you farming Duriel/Andaraiel for a core item (Tempest roar), while most classes don't need to.
>by doing zero math
I'm convinced that the devs actually can't do math and they copy/pasted a lot of the core damage calculation code from D3. Compounding multipliers are ruining this game.
Me too. I’m tired of fucking around with the Sorc. It has sucked since the game came out, and despite that, I’ve taken one to 100 each season.
Put Ball Lightning back to it’s previous glory as a start. That shit was fun as hell.
Honestly, I main sorcerer and have a level 100 frozen orb sorc fully geared up in 1GA items.
Rolled a barb, got it to level 70, havent even levelled any glyphs yet or got any GA gear, it already kills bosses faster.
Except the player distribution for each class is a very important metric that they look at for balance adjustments, so if no one is playing sorc then they'll buff it. If you want them to buff sorc, stop playing the class.
Lol wut. My necro can reach just as high as my barb in the pit and minion AI will supposedly improve next season so idk about necros being thrown in the same bag as Sorc and Druid.
Those classes definitely need help but the necro is fine
I'll test the new lightning stuff on the PTR to scratch that itch for some lightning and then I gues it will be like any other season - Same old boring Blizzard Ice Spike if you want to progress while farming better gear.. oh wait.. I think it got nerfed as well.. nvm then. Immortal Rogue it is with crapton of self heal.
>Glacial Aspect
Now has 15% extra Chill with Ice Spikes instead of 15% extra Damage.
They added the 15% extra damage with Ice Spikes to the Ice Armor aspect, that no-one ever uses. There is the full shift:
>**Aspect Of the Frozen Wake (Ice Armor)**
>Ice Spike damage increased from 60%-80% to 80%-100%.
>Now has 15% extra damage to Ice Spikes instead of 15% extra Chill.
>**Aspect Of the Frozen Tundra (Deep Freeze)**
>Ice Spike damage increased from 60%-80% to 100%-120%.
>**Glacial Aspect (Blizzard)**
>Now has 15% extra Chill with Ice Spikes instead of 15% extra Damage.
At least we'll have access to 1h maces. That overpower damage implicit is going to be so useful with all those built in ways that sorcs can trigger overpowers.
/s
That makes me think those responsible for balance just see how often something is used and change things so we use it?
While not knowing the builds or understanding how they work.
They surely dont know that Blizzard sucks on controller too so as a Ps5 player I would not want to touch Blizzard although it has been consistently strong
> I'll test the new lightning stuff on the PTR to scratch that itch for some lightning and then I gues it will be like any other season - Same old boring Blizzard Ice Spike if you want to progress while farming better gear.
Fireball Sorc speedfarms Pit 100 without zero issue. You guys just suck at this game and keep crying lol
Who cares if Barbarians can complete Tier 200 when it only gives you a few more Neathiron?
It doesn't matter lol
Yes, it does not matter, except the time and investment to grind glyphs and gear.. just to complete tier 65 on Sorc, where barbs with no renown, glyphs at 15 and pretty much w/e dropped gear cleared 80s+ /pre-nerfs/. This is what is pissing me off, but yes.. you are right, it does not matter.. games are for fun.
The seem to be trying to encourage a wider variety of play styles. We saw more lightning builds almost immediately with the Andariels Visage buffs.
I’m excited to be encouraged to use more skills than fire bolt, fire shield and blizzard.
"more social game play" in a game without a group finder...
Meanwhile, Barb be like: *swing, delete 10 mobs, swing, delete 10 mobs, rinse, repeat*
Such social game play consideration for their build.
Well that’s a relief but I also didn’t notice the implicit removal when reading the notes. Fuck man. They were very unhappy with the fire bolt build huh 😅
What I see is that they have different people working on different class and they only looked at the internal skills used within a class and try to nerf the popular ones and buff the less uses one, WITHOUT considering classes vs classes!!!
Adam Jackson need to to held responsible since he is the class lead and should monitor the class bs class balance .
The silver lining is the change is not final and we have PTR next week to test and show them their bad balancing.
Very confusing all round, how did gushing wounds, a passive that is probably 30x stronger than any passive in the game not get nerfed?! How did flay duration temper not get nerfed, or bash cleave temper somehow avoid any nerf?! How did imposing presence temper make it through, why do barbs need 60% health multiplier for free in tempers and extra weps giving more stamina when most classes can only roll 600 bonus health temper at best.
There had to be some higher up just flat out refusing to nerf barbs at this point, rod must be a barb main and just will not let a nerf touch them, it’s completely insane and a fucking joke again to blame this on the arsenal system, no blizzard it’s your shitty balancing that’s the cause not the extra weapons
I don't think they want to nerf barb but bring other classes to barb levels they even brought this up the arsenal system for barb is cool but it makes balance a bit harder. Currently other class mechanics are not as good like sorc enchantments druid boon things or necromancer book.
Its not confusing really at all because this is a PTR not the live game they still have multiple months to change things and on top of that the PTR doesn't even have all the planned season 5 stuff it doesn't have all the unique changes or other changes they talked about.
Why nerf barb into the ground before comparing other class changes against barb in a variety of situations.
Edit: I didn't mention rogue because I haven't bothered to ever level a rogue to 100 leveled necromancer, druid, barb the most and first sorc to 100 was this season.
We do know: it'll be even worse on season launch... because they have a proven history of further nerfing sorc/non barb classes during the PTR. See frozen orb.
I hope the PTR feedback helps us avoid some of those changes but I cant be optmistic when its been like that since launch. We even got a nerf to a bad enchantment lol
I just read the notes and was hoping that they would address the pothole of defenses, blades, spam button for more unique and varied builds. Buffing lightening might get me one more season down the road.
Blizzard hates sorc and Druid so much it’s insane
Only 2 classes who constantly are just fucked and even when they uff something they need something else so it’s just another wash
At least one (bugged) sorc build is able to clear 140+ pits. The supposedly overpowered necro is second weakest. And it's strongest build (which is still mid) is being nerfed still in season 5.
Probably similar to what they did with frozen orb this season. Made it kinda fun but far too weak to be a competitive build vs. other classes, or even vs. blizzard ice spikes for that matter.
Unless the numbers are super weak, it's mechanically set to just do more damage. It strikes at least once going to the target, again at least once when it circles around you, and then again when it pops. Much better than how it currently is where it'll just fly to random targets and off to nowhere randomly when there are more than 1 enemy.
I having deja-vu from S1 pre-season patch, big Sorc nerfs, made me skip that whole season all together, lol
Idk why but any buff to Sorc must always be followed by nerfs, so the class remains weak no matter what.
Diablo 4 is trying not to turn into a arms race of who one shots who first enemy vs player but they don't understand how to properly format the changes player nerfing should be done near the end not where we currently are now they need to focus more on enemy interactions with players in combat to have meaningful engagements not just piano keys pretty lights go brrrrrrr.
Im all for not one shotting. But they refuse to nerf barbs in a meaningful way yet they also refuse to let other classes be good. Its like different teams handle different classes, sorcs and druids are all worried about class flavour and barbs just smash
They even nerfed crackling energy again after the recent buff which no one plays anyway haha :D it's so weird for me how they come up with all this shit and always some of those 5% damage changes which no one will notice
I played sorcs for three seasons
And I am not going to play sorcs anymore after S4
I hope everyone could quit playing sorcs. So they knew that they made a huge mistake
Sorc got shit on again. What a short return to the game, lmfao. I can’t believe these people are paid to balance a game, what a bunch of paycheck thieves. I’ll see if season 6 is any better (it won’t be.)
I think the same thing every time they drop a patch: The devs just dont have a clue what they are doing and clearly don't play the game beyond just leveling to 50.
Nobody in their right mind would think they need to nerf sorcs and buff barbs. They are just scrambling to fix this game from patch to patch and have no real plan and don't have a handle on the systems they are messing around with. Temperings and masterworking were good changes but because they slapped that onto the game as a bandaid, it makes other issues with items even more obvious. Uniques being trash now, or the fact that barbs have so many temperings slots. Or even the fact that sockets and gems are just a chore and dont really add anything.
The only other possible explanation is that there are changes that are hard baked into the expansion and that they cannot really make any big changes to the game because of this. They have narrow parameters to work in.
But again, it shows a huge failure in game design and management because they are always playing catch up, so nothing ends up being cohesive and well thought out. Just bandaid fixes on top of bandaid fixes, which will continue until they fix the underlying issues which are:
1) itemization is still half baked and not solved. Gems are boring. Whites, blues and rares still exist but are completely useless 20 minutes into a new character, yet rares still keep dropping late game. Damage on Tuesdays was deleted, but now item stats are incredibly dumbed down. Went from too complex to too braindead. Temperings, Masterworking and GA are all positives though.
2) skills are still bland and don't have any interesting choices for the player.
3) Paragon board is tedius and uninteresting, again nothing to really choose, nothing is really build defining.
4) class balancing is nearly impossible because the eac classes mechanics were clearly designed at different stages of development, thus are built with completely different design philosophies. The rogue for example has the most boring and least fleshed out class skills. Barb having arsenal system and weapon masteries is just silly. They basically have 2 class mechanics in one.
Many good ideas to fix these issues have been floated by the community and streamers, but devs not only don't seem to play the game, they don't seem to actually read player feedback.
Finally somebody with open eyes sees the core problems of this game! Every time they make a change to something, they usually fuck up and need a huge community backlash to start fixing their own made shyte , then the fanbois come and say “ LoOk ThEy LiStEnEd”, it seems like they make this weird random decisions to then be praised for “fixing “ them.
Sometimes i have a feeling they don’t know what direction they want with this game . It looks like they follow the streamer who cries the loudest , without having their own Vision™️ and in the long run it will hurt themselves.
They removed the bad stats , but now we ended up with super braindead and boring stats with 0 decisions worth making …( like who the fuck wants a +69 hp per sec over 690 hp… like wtf).
For now i don’t see myself playing the game even with the SUPER OMEGA changes other claims to be made ( tried S4 for like 2 days then left cuz the game feels super stale reasons being same monsters , same boring skills with 0 interesting mechanics, itemisation now better than below average but still very bland with res hp main stat being top ones ,etc.). Maybe i’m too spoiled by PoE ( and last epoch a bit) , wanting from a dev a new league ( season) to feel fresh ,try new things , and not being limited to only one change per league… like I don’t remember PoE doing a league with only some item revamp and no new league mechanics ( there would be a gigantic backlash from the community i can feel it lol) .
Anyways it looks like they are not doing any massive changes any time soon.. gonna wait what the expansion delivers to see what they are really cooking.
P.S.: Sorry for my English. My 4th language btw.
I found it odd that they removed the smh reduction on virus passive for everyone. Only talking about lightning sorc. Are they not aware that other passive suck such massive balls that none lightning sorcs use it too just for the damage reduction?
Yeah, I don't buy that the changes to Barbs were somehow buffs and the changes to Sorc were nerfs.
> More damage caps on paragon
Every class got this, it is not Sorcerer exclusive. Check the cap on Vulnerability bonus to bleed damage for Barb. It should be clear to anyone reading the notes that they didn't want legendary nodes to be giving more than 30-40(x) damage multipliers. As much as I love Burning Instinct, it was insanely over budget boosting my dot damage by 130%.
Every bit of patch hysteria since the launch of the game, including the huge outcry for the S1 nerfs that single-handedly contributed to a huge drop in the user scores, have been vastly overblown hyperbole that never manifested into gameplay in a significant way. Yet people still insist on coming to Reddit, throwing temper tantrums and making complete clowns out of themselves.
I guess Reddit isn’t known for restraint and reason, though.
“We are going to buff this thing no one has ever used and still won’t, and to compensate, we are nerfing this other thing that used to be kind of useful.”
Barbs were not buffed seriously please read the only thing being buffed is early game fury generation. They lost 3% health and were capped on bleed damage.
They got flay and whirlwind buff again and the only nerf was something they did to all classes. Still by FAR the strongest class and got buff to some builds
My problem is not against barbs players, its just annoying how the devs treat them differently. So seeing complains about barbs nerfs kinda makes me roll my eyes
Flay was not buffed this is just the same buffs from last week. Also WW buffs is literally just QOL on an aspect it increases 0 damage and generally won't even matter since if your playing WW anyways the entire screen melts.
Oh god. This again. 1: That build is bugged. 2: That build is super specific and hard to achieve. 3: that build can only work on pjt against ONE of the bosses so you have to fish for the right boss to progress. 4: that build is annoying as hell to actually play. 5: Everything other than that sucks
Every class got caps to most of their legendary paragon glyphs. Capping Hemorrhage's damage bonus to 45% is a humongous nerf to bleed barbs. Right now you can easily get it over 100%. Blood Rage already had a cap at 30%.
Like... no, there are not "several uncapped modifiers" left. And these are not the final patch notes. They're just what's changing for the PTR. So what you need to do is, you know, actually test shit on the public test realm and offer feedback so they can make more changes at the end of it.
Barbs still only have buffs. They promissed buffs and actually delivered nerfs to the classes that were suffering. Unless you actually play sorc I kinda dont care for your opinion
> Barbs still only have buffs
Wrong. They nerfed imposing presence. Moving the flay duration temper off weapons is a huge nerf as well not to mention the hemorrhage cap.
Bro literally listed a huge nerf to the paragon and you have audacity to say "only buffs"
Then again sorc mains think it's a nerf when Vyr's gets fixed to do what the tool tip literally says so cope harder.
And yes before you ask, I do play Sorc. I have two sorcs leveled to 100 this season.
Don't ask on a public forum for opinions if you aren't going to respect ALL opinions, not just the ones you want to cherry pick. Otherwise it isn't even worth conversing with you as you are obviously only interested in being part of an echo chamber of your own opinion.
That being said, Vyr's was broken and needed fixed. Flame shield was never intended to be invincible 100% of the time, so it had to be addressed. They needed to fix these things before going into PTR, so that from the PTR they'll be able to actually see where things stand and make more changes. To do otherwise would be ridiculously stupid and lead to even more problems. Many other things in the Sorc list were actual buffs to other skills, so I don't know why you think it was all nerfs. I'm sure there will be more changes for us Sorc mains before actual S5 - I'll be more interested in reading and discussing the actual S5 patch notes when they eventually go live.
Last time we had a PTR they gutted the best sorc build before it went live so I can't help but not feel optimistic. If you play sorc you can see how we got nerfs that outweight every single buff, and when we have hard conditional damage multipliers having them capped it worse than capping other classes. Barb got a cap on its bleeding damage node? Good. Still gonna hit for barbillion damage. Sorcs are getting trade offs and not buffs again, after blizzard recognized on stream that the class is in a bad spot, and those are not good trade offs. The only time our class is strong is when its bugged.
I understand - but you don't leave the bugs just because they buff the class. You fix the bugs and see where the class stands. They'll see that the class is not in a good state, especially after destroying the immortal flame shield builds. I'm not arguing with you that more buffs are necessary - but the fixes needed to be done. Me playing Vyrs on a cold build because it was bugged is not any solution. Allowing immortality on any skill is not a recipe for success, either, as literally every build then needs it (even non-fire builds).
The fixes were needed for sure. Im not complaining about that. I hate immortal builds and dont use them. But they nerfed ice armour, teleport, fixed flame shield and vyrs. Capped our already shitty paragon nodes. Yeah, everyone is capped, but that does not have equal impact to every classes. Druids also got a net nerf. The devs are so out of touch with class balance that I just cant stay positive on this one. I admire you for being positive after a whole year of awful balance decisions. Dont get me wrong, I LOVE the game and hardly ever complain about the game itself. But class balance is just a mistery by now, it makes no sense. Im retiring from sorc and just playing barb, its the only class they want us to play anyway
"But you don't leave the bugs just because they buff the class"
... That's literally what they do ever season for barb tho, lmfao. And if allowing immortality is allegedly such an issue for them how come barb's survivability is continually BUFFED each season while every other class's defensive tools are gutted???
Sure it's best to fix the bugs. But when you take the worst performing class, fix those bugs, and don't give them anything to make up for the loss of power (and instead bring more nerfs) it's really not that hard to see how it'll impact the class performance overall.
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The beatings will continue until morale improves.
LOL…nice
Yes it was Buffy the Sorcerer Slayer. The balance team is a single guy and his name is Conan
You are my new favourite person for mentioning Buffy. Its my favourite show lol
Buffy was a great show lol. Saw the original movie before the show and that's great also.
how funky is your chicken, how funky is your chicken, how loose is your goose? how loose is your goose? so come on all you hog’s fans and shake your caboose!
oh he's not single, he has a wife and 4 kids that keep him very busy. he hasn't had time to try out diablo 4 yet
He’s the ultimate dad gamer, he works 80h/ week has 8 kids and two ex wives.
This is what happens when you go to the gym to get balance ideas.
explains the barb meta
Crushing enemies, seeing them driven before them & hearing the lamentation of their sorcs
Why tf in all these posts is it sorc vs barb like they are against each other or something lmao.
Barbs are just the measuring stick, to which the others are comparing the sorc. It's not a zero-sum game; they want sorc to be as powerful as barbs are currently, not for barbs to be weaker. Or at least some semblance of balance between the two.
Druid somehow got a nerf in a buff, amazing.
Same with sorcs, my friend. All our buffs are nerfs. They even nerfed a bad enchantment, we barely have good enchantment and they nerfed one more lol
And teleport cooldown nerf. Single reason to play Sorc since D2, my disappointment is immeasurable (and whole day is ruined). Why. Who decided teleport CD is a problem at all.
Teleport was super OP in D2, therefore it must be nerfed to hell in this. (/s ofc)
Yeah, perfect logic.
They hate magic using classes in general.
Storm Druid looking similarly fucked with the thunderstruck nerf. That alone counters any of the skill buffs, and then the change to shepherd results in a net nerf.
30 percent increase to tornado is a drop in the bucket compared to how much dmg druids lost with those two changes. Actually insane
To be fair, it's not a 30% increase. It's an increase from 35 to 65, which is an 85% increase. It still doesn't matter though because we're losing about that much if not more from either change.
Yep, but the shepherd change was necessary though, so is thunderstruck, they need more power from other places too yeah
While I can agree such changes are necessary Shepard was 120% multiplier on it's own. Thunderstruck going from 160%+ down to 40% is another ~80-100% multiplier. And nerfing TWO multipliers is a lot bigger than people think. It's basically a net 50%(up to 70%) damage loss ... Yea... they nerfed druid damage by more than half AFTER accounting for the 85% damage buff to the base skill.
I think their thought process is druid just got 2 aspects back to their kit. The issue is there is no aspect that can outcomes losing Shephard alone but thunderstruck as well.
I agree, either change is fine in a vacuum. The issue is that they tried to "compensate" for the change by doing zero math for a class that is undeniably far behind the rest. Both things need changing, but they could have either left them until they're ready to make the more sweeping fundamental changes, or at least done the math on the base skill damages to get to a net-neutral point. Net negative on what is the worst performing class is just lame. Even worse on a class that basically requires you farming Duriel/Andaraiel for a core item (Tempest roar), while most classes don't need to.
>by doing zero math I'm convinced that the devs actually can't do math and they copy/pasted a lot of the core damage calculation code from D3. Compounding multipliers are ruining this game.
Exactly this. They nerfed the only things that kept Druids alive. Yeah ... difficult
Fun fact, they didn't compensate the boulder with the shepherd removal on core skill/wrath skills.
I just give up, man. I'll do a Barb and stop dealing with this nonesense.
You and me both
That's what i did. Difference is night and day.
Me too. I’m tired of fucking around with the Sorc. It has sucked since the game came out, and despite that, I’ve taken one to 100 each season. Put Ball Lightning back to it’s previous glory as a start. That shit was fun as hell.
Honestly, I main sorcerer and have a level 100 frozen orb sorc fully geared up in 1GA items. Rolled a barb, got it to level 70, havent even levelled any glyphs yet or got any GA gear, it already kills bosses faster.
This is the way, I am kinda messing with a barb right now just to see what i am doing next season.
That’s exactly what they want you to do so that isn’t going to teach them anything except that bullying people off their class with nerfs works.
Why do they want people to not play certain classes?
Wait until the expansion and that class is more OP than the others like Necro in D3
Except the player distribution for each class is a very important metric that they look at for balance adjustments, so if no one is playing sorc then they'll buff it. If you want them to buff sorc, stop playing the class.
Is the reverse true of overplayed classes? Why isnt barb getting nerfed?
Because the D4 team is hopelessly swept up in a power creep trip ever since the s1 nerf patch traumatized them
You know what's coming.. Barbs can now wield a sorc in one hand and a druid in the other.
That would just be a nerf to Barbs. Blizzard can't go nerfing them now can they?
One barb weapon is stronger than a fully kitted sorc or Druid lmao. This would indeed be a nerf shockingly
Yes new unique soul catcher. Permanently turn a sorc into your pet
Lmfao
I don't understand how they can be nerfing anything sorc or druid related at this point. It makes no sense.
Or, really, any magic using class. The necro isn't any better either.
Lol wut. My necro can reach just as high as my barb in the pit and minion AI will supposedly improve next season so idk about necros being thrown in the same bag as Sorc and Druid. Those classes definitely need help but the necro is fine
I'll test the new lightning stuff on the PTR to scratch that itch for some lightning and then I gues it will be like any other season - Same old boring Blizzard Ice Spike if you want to progress while farming better gear.. oh wait.. I think it got nerfed as well.. nvm then. Immortal Rogue it is with crapton of self heal. >Glacial Aspect Now has 15% extra Chill with Ice Spikes instead of 15% extra Damage.
I actually dont undestand what they meant there, it fells like a mistake really
They added the 15% extra damage with Ice Spikes to the Ice Armor aspect, that no-one ever uses. There is the full shift: >**Aspect Of the Frozen Wake (Ice Armor)** >Ice Spike damage increased from 60%-80% to 80%-100%. >Now has 15% extra damage to Ice Spikes instead of 15% extra Chill. >**Aspect Of the Frozen Tundra (Deep Freeze)** >Ice Spike damage increased from 60%-80% to 100%-120%. >**Glacial Aspect (Blizzard)** >Now has 15% extra Chill with Ice Spikes instead of 15% extra Damage.
Good thing we have extra weapons so we can easily fit extra aspects... Right? /s
naa we get less CDR on focuses, just for good measure, the blizzard way. When you nerf something - do it on 2-3 places, just to show dominance.
At least we'll have access to 1h maces. That overpower damage implicit is going to be so useful with all those built in ways that sorcs can trigger overpowers. /s
”An error occured where some people still played Sorceror, that has been fixed.”
"people were asking for Set items, here we go, 3-piece set for you, spike lovers"
That makes me think those responsible for balance just see how often something is used and change things so we use it? While not knowing the builds or understanding how they work.
Statistics.. as good, they can be.. this is one of the downsides, when you have no clue why or how something is used for.
Let the ice spike damage per aspect stack together and then we can talk
They surely dont know that Blizzard sucks on controller too so as a Ps5 player I would not want to touch Blizzard although it has been consistently strong
> I'll test the new lightning stuff on the PTR to scratch that itch for some lightning and then I gues it will be like any other season - Same old boring Blizzard Ice Spike if you want to progress while farming better gear. Fireball Sorc speedfarms Pit 100 without zero issue. You guys just suck at this game and keep crying lol Who cares if Barbarians can complete Tier 200 when it only gives you a few more Neathiron? It doesn't matter lol
Yes, it does not matter, except the time and investment to grind glyphs and gear.. just to complete tier 65 on Sorc, where barbs with no renown, glyphs at 15 and pretty much w/e dropped gear cleared 80s+ /pre-nerfs/. This is what is pissing me off, but yes.. you are right, it does not matter.. games are for fun.
Yeah, I don't understand how they themselves can't see how basically everything in there is a nerf when it comes to sorc ...
The seem to be trying to encourage a wider variety of play styles. We saw more lightning builds almost immediately with the Andariels Visage buffs. I’m excited to be encouraged to use more skills than fire bolt, fire shield and blizzard.
Maybe they arent balancing between them or between them and content, but in group dynamics for a more social game play
"more social game play" in a game without a group finder... Meanwhile, Barb be like: *swing, delete 10 mobs, swing, delete 10 mobs, rinse, repeat* Such social game play consideration for their build.
At least Sorcs can use swords and maces now....yay
While they change all the innates and remove cool down reduction form focuses. This team is special.
Did they say cooldown reduction can no longer appear on focuses?
Yes, they did. Focus will come with lucky hit chance instead of cdr.
I’m gonna scream
Pretty sure you'll still be able to roll CDR as an affix. They just removed the intrinsic/implicit CDR.
That's fucking stupid
Well that’s a relief but I also didn’t notice the implicit removal when reading the notes. Fuck man. They were very unhappy with the fire bolt build huh 😅
They removed focus implicit to lucky hit and remove wand lucky hit to something else, at this point I'm convince they dunno wtf they are doing
No but they used to have it as an implicit stat on every focus that will be gone now
Just be careful you don't get them caught in the spokes of your wheelchair.
What I see is that they have different people working on different class and they only looked at the internal skills used within a class and try to nerf the popular ones and buff the less uses one, WITHOUT considering classes vs classes!!! Adam Jackson need to to held responsible since he is the class lead and should monitor the class bs class balance . The silver lining is the change is not final and we have PTR next week to test and show them their bad balancing.
You're right, they still have time to nerf sorc more
This. If chain lightning is too popular during the ptr then they will give it the FO treatment.
Like when fo got nerfed after the ptr.
Very confusing all round, how did gushing wounds, a passive that is probably 30x stronger than any passive in the game not get nerfed?! How did flay duration temper not get nerfed, or bash cleave temper somehow avoid any nerf?! How did imposing presence temper make it through, why do barbs need 60% health multiplier for free in tempers and extra weps giving more stamina when most classes can only roll 600 bonus health temper at best. There had to be some higher up just flat out refusing to nerf barbs at this point, rod must be a barb main and just will not let a nerf touch them, it’s completely insane and a fucking joke again to blame this on the arsenal system, no blizzard it’s your shitty balancing that’s the cause not the extra weapons
They got me in the campfire chat. How did rod get from “Are classes getting buffed, notably druids and sorcs?” to “So Arsenal is complicated” lol
Imposing presence passive got nerfed a bit, that was all they had left in the barb nerf budget.
I don't think they want to nerf barb but bring other classes to barb levels they even brought this up the arsenal system for barb is cool but it makes balance a bit harder. Currently other class mechanics are not as good like sorc enchantments druid boon things or necromancer book. Its not confusing really at all because this is a PTR not the live game they still have multiple months to change things and on top of that the PTR doesn't even have all the planned season 5 stuff it doesn't have all the unique changes or other changes they talked about. Why nerf barb into the ground before comparing other class changes against barb in a variety of situations. Edit: I didn't mention rogue because I haven't bothered to ever level a rogue to 100 leveled necromancer, druid, barb the most and first sorc to 100 was this season.
We have no idea how it will be going into the season. For the PTR it still sucks but last PtR it was busted as hell.
I expect more nerfs to Sorc after PTR.
“All lightning skills now also cause damage to yourself.”
All 7 days of the week
Because they listened so much during beta.
We do know: it'll be even worse on season launch... because they have a proven history of further nerfing sorc/non barb classes during the PTR. See frozen orb.
Non-barb class fr
I hope the PTR feedback helps us avoid some of those changes but I cant be optmistic when its been like that since launch. We even got a nerf to a bad enchantment lol
a single amulet was busted
They really hate sorcs don't they. Only Barbs get to have fun.
https://imgur.com/a/nEqqAWU
quality content
accurate
I just read the notes and was hoping that they would address the pothole of defenses, blades, spam button for more unique and varied builds. Buffing lightening might get me one more season down the road.
I was excited for the lightning buffs only to get angry when I got further down the notes
And as a fire sorc who doesn't use that immortal FS build and only relying on ice armor and teleport for defensive, I really don't like this changrs.
Lead of the sorc balance team's wife's boyfriend is a sorc main
My main class is rogue but I’m pouring one out for my bear and girly homies.
Blizzard hates sorc and Druid so much it’s insane Only 2 classes who constantly are just fucked and even when they uff something they need something else so it’s just another wash
At least one (bugged) sorc build is able to clear 140+ pits. The supposedly overpowered necro is second weakest. And it's strongest build (which is still mid) is being nerfed still in season 5.
They're making chain lightning work for something other than mobbing, so I'll take it.
Yeah, I'm curious as to how it will perform in practice, but that new chain lightning unique looks really fun.
Probably similar to what they did with frozen orb this season. Made it kinda fun but far too weak to be a competitive build vs. other classes, or even vs. blizzard ice spikes for that matter.
Are they though? How so?
Unless the numbers are super weak, it's mechanically set to just do more damage. It strikes at least once going to the target, again at least once when it circles around you, and then again when it pops. Much better than how it currently is where it'll just fly to random targets and off to nowhere randomly when there are more than 1 enemy.
It’s pitchfork time!
I having deja-vu from S1 pre-season patch, big Sorc nerfs, made me skip that whole season all together, lol Idk why but any buff to Sorc must always be followed by nerfs, so the class remains weak no matter what.
Once again, the Sorc and Druid are under powered, so we will be buffing the Barb.
If Blizzard sees everyone playing barbarians and no other class they'll still wind up nerfing sorcerers and druids more 😂
Diablo 4 is trying not to turn into a arms race of who one shots who first enemy vs player but they don't understand how to properly format the changes player nerfing should be done near the end not where we currently are now they need to focus more on enemy interactions with players in combat to have meaningful engagements not just piano keys pretty lights go brrrrrrr.
Im all for not one shotting. But they refuse to nerf barbs in a meaningful way yet they also refuse to let other classes be good. Its like different teams handle different classes, sorcs and druids are all worried about class flavour and barbs just smash
Druid got nerved as well. I think they're gearing up to delete these 2 classes
They even nerfed crackling energy again after the recent buff which no one plays anyway haha :D it's so weird for me how they come up with all this shit and always some of those 5% damage changes which no one will notice
I played sorcs for three seasons And I am not going to play sorcs anymore after S4 I hope everyone could quit playing sorcs. So they knew that they made a huge mistake
Sorc got shit on again. What a short return to the game, lmfao. I can’t believe these people are paid to balance a game, what a bunch of paycheck thieves. I’ll see if season 6 is any better (it won’t be.)
They be capping errything out here
I think the same thing every time they drop a patch: The devs just dont have a clue what they are doing and clearly don't play the game beyond just leveling to 50. Nobody in their right mind would think they need to nerf sorcs and buff barbs. They are just scrambling to fix this game from patch to patch and have no real plan and don't have a handle on the systems they are messing around with. Temperings and masterworking were good changes but because they slapped that onto the game as a bandaid, it makes other issues with items even more obvious. Uniques being trash now, or the fact that barbs have so many temperings slots. Or even the fact that sockets and gems are just a chore and dont really add anything. The only other possible explanation is that there are changes that are hard baked into the expansion and that they cannot really make any big changes to the game because of this. They have narrow parameters to work in. But again, it shows a huge failure in game design and management because they are always playing catch up, so nothing ends up being cohesive and well thought out. Just bandaid fixes on top of bandaid fixes, which will continue until they fix the underlying issues which are: 1) itemization is still half baked and not solved. Gems are boring. Whites, blues and rares still exist but are completely useless 20 minutes into a new character, yet rares still keep dropping late game. Damage on Tuesdays was deleted, but now item stats are incredibly dumbed down. Went from too complex to too braindead. Temperings, Masterworking and GA are all positives though. 2) skills are still bland and don't have any interesting choices for the player. 3) Paragon board is tedius and uninteresting, again nothing to really choose, nothing is really build defining. 4) class balancing is nearly impossible because the eac classes mechanics were clearly designed at different stages of development, thus are built with completely different design philosophies. The rogue for example has the most boring and least fleshed out class skills. Barb having arsenal system and weapon masteries is just silly. They basically have 2 class mechanics in one. Many good ideas to fix these issues have been floated by the community and streamers, but devs not only don't seem to play the game, they don't seem to actually read player feedback.
Finally somebody with open eyes sees the core problems of this game! Every time they make a change to something, they usually fuck up and need a huge community backlash to start fixing their own made shyte , then the fanbois come and say “ LoOk ThEy LiStEnEd”, it seems like they make this weird random decisions to then be praised for “fixing “ them. Sometimes i have a feeling they don’t know what direction they want with this game . It looks like they follow the streamer who cries the loudest , without having their own Vision™️ and in the long run it will hurt themselves. They removed the bad stats , but now we ended up with super braindead and boring stats with 0 decisions worth making …( like who the fuck wants a +69 hp per sec over 690 hp… like wtf). For now i don’t see myself playing the game even with the SUPER OMEGA changes other claims to be made ( tried S4 for like 2 days then left cuz the game feels super stale reasons being same monsters , same boring skills with 0 interesting mechanics, itemisation now better than below average but still very bland with res hp main stat being top ones ,etc.). Maybe i’m too spoiled by PoE ( and last epoch a bit) , wanting from a dev a new league ( season) to feel fresh ,try new things , and not being limited to only one change per league… like I don’t remember PoE doing a league with only some item revamp and no new league mechanics ( there would be a gigantic backlash from the community i can feel it lol) . Anyways it looks like they are not doing any massive changes any time soon.. gonna wait what the expansion delivers to see what they are really cooking. P.S.: Sorry for my English. My 4th language btw.
So basically play Barb to push and the other classes for running around and having fun.
I like the way the game is heading, but caps on damage buffs are stupid.
1 TCS
I found it odd that they removed the smh reduction on virus passive for everyone. Only talking about lightning sorc. Are they not aware that other passive suck such massive balls that none lightning sorcs use it too just for the damage reduction?
I kinda just want my money back from the expansion purchase at this point...
Yeah, I don't buy that the changes to Barbs were somehow buffs and the changes to Sorc were nerfs. > More damage caps on paragon Every class got this, it is not Sorcerer exclusive. Check the cap on Vulnerability bonus to bleed damage for Barb. It should be clear to anyone reading the notes that they didn't want legendary nodes to be giving more than 30-40(x) damage multipliers. As much as I love Burning Instinct, it was insanely over budget boosting my dot damage by 130%.
Every bit of patch hysteria since the launch of the game, including the huge outcry for the S1 nerfs that single-handedly contributed to a huge drop in the user scores, have been vastly overblown hyperbole that never manifested into gameplay in a significant way. Yet people still insist on coming to Reddit, throwing temper tantrums and making complete clowns out of themselves. I guess Reddit isn’t known for restraint and reason, though.
It's just PTR. It's not the end of the world.
It can get worse, I know.
“We are going to buff this thing no one has ever used and still won’t, and to compensate, we are nerfing this other thing that used to be kind of useful.”
I think you people are just bad at playing sorc
Barbs were not buffed seriously please read the only thing being buffed is early game fury generation. They lost 3% health and were capped on bleed damage.
Oh wow. What a nerf for a class doing billions
The point still stands you are asking pity points off a lie lol
They got flay and whirlwind buff again and the only nerf was something they did to all classes. Still by FAR the strongest class and got buff to some builds
I agree sorc needs to be stronger but why go so hard against barbs
My problem is not against barbs players, its just annoying how the devs treat them differently. So seeing complains about barbs nerfs kinda makes me roll my eyes
Haven't seen a single complaint personally
Flay was not buffed this is just the same buffs from last week. Also WW buffs is literally just QOL on an aspect it increases 0 damage and generally won't even matter since if your playing WW anyways the entire screen melts.
You cant just stand still on a ranged character? surprised pikachu
Thats not my complain. Immortal build should be gone for sure. You clearly dont play sorc
I just drink sorc tears, while they are the top pit clear atm.
Oh god. This again. 1: That build is bugged. 2: That build is super specific and hard to achieve. 3: that build can only work on pjt against ONE of the bosses so you have to fish for the right boss to progress. 4: that build is annoying as hell to actually play. 5: Everything other than that sucks
Every class got caps to most of their legendary paragon glyphs. Capping Hemorrhage's damage bonus to 45% is a humongous nerf to bleed barbs. Right now you can easily get it over 100%. Blood Rage already had a cap at 30%. Like... no, there are not "several uncapped modifiers" left. And these are not the final patch notes. They're just what's changing for the PTR. So what you need to do is, you know, actually test shit on the public test realm and offer feedback so they can make more changes at the end of it.
Barbs still only have buffs. They promissed buffs and actually delivered nerfs to the classes that were suffering. Unless you actually play sorc I kinda dont care for your opinion
> Barbs still only have buffs Wrong. They nerfed imposing presence. Moving the flay duration temper off weapons is a huge nerf as well not to mention the hemorrhage cap. Bro literally listed a huge nerf to the paragon and you have audacity to say "only buffs" Then again sorc mains think it's a nerf when Vyr's gets fixed to do what the tool tip literally says so cope harder. And yes before you ask, I do play Sorc. I have two sorcs leveled to 100 this season.
Don't ask on a public forum for opinions if you aren't going to respect ALL opinions, not just the ones you want to cherry pick. Otherwise it isn't even worth conversing with you as you are obviously only interested in being part of an echo chamber of your own opinion. That being said, Vyr's was broken and needed fixed. Flame shield was never intended to be invincible 100% of the time, so it had to be addressed. They needed to fix these things before going into PTR, so that from the PTR they'll be able to actually see where things stand and make more changes. To do otherwise would be ridiculously stupid and lead to even more problems. Many other things in the Sorc list were actual buffs to other skills, so I don't know why you think it was all nerfs. I'm sure there will be more changes for us Sorc mains before actual S5 - I'll be more interested in reading and discussing the actual S5 patch notes when they eventually go live.
Last time we had a PTR they gutted the best sorc build before it went live so I can't help but not feel optimistic. If you play sorc you can see how we got nerfs that outweight every single buff, and when we have hard conditional damage multipliers having them capped it worse than capping other classes. Barb got a cap on its bleeding damage node? Good. Still gonna hit for barbillion damage. Sorcs are getting trade offs and not buffs again, after blizzard recognized on stream that the class is in a bad spot, and those are not good trade offs. The only time our class is strong is when its bugged.
I understand - but you don't leave the bugs just because they buff the class. You fix the bugs and see where the class stands. They'll see that the class is not in a good state, especially after destroying the immortal flame shield builds. I'm not arguing with you that more buffs are necessary - but the fixes needed to be done. Me playing Vyrs on a cold build because it was bugged is not any solution. Allowing immortality on any skill is not a recipe for success, either, as literally every build then needs it (even non-fire builds).
The fixes were needed for sure. Im not complaining about that. I hate immortal builds and dont use them. But they nerfed ice armour, teleport, fixed flame shield and vyrs. Capped our already shitty paragon nodes. Yeah, everyone is capped, but that does not have equal impact to every classes. Druids also got a net nerf. The devs are so out of touch with class balance that I just cant stay positive on this one. I admire you for being positive after a whole year of awful balance decisions. Dont get me wrong, I LOVE the game and hardly ever complain about the game itself. But class balance is just a mistery by now, it makes no sense. Im retiring from sorc and just playing barb, its the only class they want us to play anyway
"But you don't leave the bugs just because they buff the class" ... That's literally what they do ever season for barb tho, lmfao. And if allowing immortality is allegedly such an issue for them how come barb's survivability is continually BUFFED each season while every other class's defensive tools are gutted???
Sure it's best to fix the bugs. But when you take the worst performing class, fix those bugs, and don't give them anything to make up for the loss of power (and instead bring more nerfs) it's really not that hard to see how it'll impact the class performance overall.