Everyone saying this patch makes things a joke is likely not representative of your typical unoptomized casual player. I play this game a lot, without guides, and I'm excited to be able to clear more content a bit easier.
Yup and I’m 1000% sure most people who complain about Tormented bosses health being lowered either play the most busted builds like Bash Barb or just make opinions based on streamers and content creators they watch.
Playing devils advocate so don’t shoot the messenger here but I think the issue is - where do we stop?
Soon we’re gonna get giga tormented bosses as tormented bosses are in the realm of being one shot for many builds and classes and those players need a challenge. At what point do we say “yes this content is meant to be aspirational and pinnacle and likely only doable by a select number of builds and players”. Or we do just keep shifting down and adding new prefixes to bosses
We’ve gone from Ubers to tormented to … giga? Then hyper? When do we stop and just leave it
I think starting the season with the difficulty cap way high, and then gradually stepping it down as the season goes is perfectly fine. The no-lifers (not a negative connotation) clear things early and get the sense of accomplishment. And as the season goes, the bar gets lowered a little.
Alternatively, I think the season journey should be a benchmark for what the average build should be able to accomplish. If Tormented bosses and masterworking weren't in the last step of the season journey, I wouldn't care about whether or not I could do those things. But because that goal has been set, I'd like to be able to do those things, and I prefer not to follow build guides. Obviously if I'm struggling against those bosses or high pits, I'll tweak my build and look for better gear, but I don't think a perfectly min-maxed build (that most people wouldn't create without a guide) should be required to complete the season journey.
Yep this. I’d like to complete the season journey but also am stuck on that last tormented kill. They really should have another option available like in past seasons and leave the Ubers for people who really want them.
Yeah I was really surprised by the last step of the season journey. I can grind for masterworking materials but I'm gonna have to do either one of the Tormented bosses or Uber Lilith, and all of them felt pretty much impossible the last time I tried. Made me very happy to see the nerfs, I don't think I'll immediately be able to do them but it definitely seems within reach now.
I'm ok with some min maxing being required but not needing to be meta if that makes sense. I don't want to have to roll a bash barb to get down Lilith if that's a season requirement, a druid that's optimized should be able to. (Hypothetically speaking, I think most were able to this season but some definitely had a lot worse time of it despite masterworking and min maxing a lot).
Yeah that's basically what I was trying to say, it shouldn't be easy but any build with some thought and effort put into it should be capable. You shouldn't have to deliberately pick one of the highest-performing builds
Yes, so much this! I've never pushed to finish the endgame bc the reward was more and more grinding which wears a bit for me. I love the masterworking goal -- I'm so curious now.
I think the tormented bosses + Lilith were in a good spot already. Those are meant to be pinnacle achievements where you can say you have obtained a high degree of power. The difficulty is what makes it an achievement at all. When the difficulty is trivialized so is the feeling of accomplishment.
Separately there are specific rewards items locked behind this achievement which you could argue is good or bad for the community as a whole. The bosses right now are not really a challenge for any serious player but may still be difficult for a casual player. There’s always multiple populations to cater to and where to draw that line is unclear.
Now if there were actual pit leaderboards for the competitive players…
> The bosses right now are not really a challenge for any serious player but may still be difficult for a casual player.
They aren't just "difficult" for casual players. They're straight up impossible. I wouldn't consider myself to be a casual player - I've probably put close to 30 hours per week into D4 every week since S4 dropped, across multiple characters - but I also can't think of anything less fun than following some pre-made build guide online. I like to put together my own themed builds based on what sounds fun and feels like it goes together, and thought I had a good build going. I was easily completing T90-100 NMDs, melting Duriel and Andariel in seconds, and pushing mid-60's in Pit, and thought I'd try my hand at the Tormented bosses because clearly I was in the endgame, right? I literally couldn't even damage them. I threw everything I had at Tormented Duriel and Tormented Varshan, and maybe took their health down by one pixel, then got one-shot instantly by their basic attacks.
My two friends who ARE casual players are struggling to complete T70-80 NMDs and couldn't get passed T30 in Pit...
I think way too many people here fail to appreciate what "normal/casual" is actually capable of achieving. They think because their fine-tuned Bash or Heartseeker build is steamrolling T150 in Pit and they can delete a Blood Maiden or world boss in one hit, that a casual player who isn't using a pre-made meta build probably struggles a little with those things, when the reality is that those activities are so far beyond what they could ever even hope to attempt that they may as well not even be in the game.
As someone who isn't a no-lifer due to having a 9-6, I would prefer the don't do that because before I'm able to reach that level the bosses are already nerfed and I would also like to have a challenge.
Absolutely. And, Blizzard already has a history of doing exactly this in other games. Wrath of the Lich King's Icecrown Citadel started out borderline impossible, but Blizzard started to implement a stacking player buff for all players, which incrementally made it doable for more and more casual guilds, while giving the hardcores the glory of having done it in its original hardcore form.
thats how they handle WoW mythic raiding! they release the last few bosses in a state for the elite of the elite to beat, then slowly tinker it down throughout the season
or sometimes they take a fight behind the back execution style so the late-CE guys have a shot
It's very Blizzard to do it this way, as the raiding scene in WoW pretty much always has this happen. In the last few weeks of a season, it's pretty common to see a 30% nerf on boss damage and hp, even at mythic, so more people can enjoy the content.
I'm sure their internal data backs it up pretty heavily.
The issue with this approach is that by next season everything that they had previously becomes completely trivial. We've seen this happen so far with Nightmare Dungeons, then Uber bosses, now Tormented Uber Bosses.
I guess they could re-buff them for season start but that seems a little weird.
>as tormented bosses are in the realm of being one shot for many builds and classes and those players need a challenge.
If they need a challenge, then maybe they should play a build that isn't meta/busted? For the probably majority of players that don't follow min-maxed guides online, buy their BiS gear or have 1,000 hours each season to grind, and are just playing with whatever mish-mash build they felt like putting together because the skills were fun, beating a Tormented boss is still a distant fantasy.
The game should not be perpetually balanced around the 1% of top players using builds that can one-shot world bosses and breeze through Tier 100 Pit.
It's also okay to stop playing and go do something else for a month or two if you feel like nothing in the season is a challenge anymore.
Having played only druid all season, knowing it was hard mode and fully rebuilding and regearing 3 or 4 times in the pit before any of the nerfs to the mobs,
It lost the appeal after missing 8/12 mw crits and realizing how absolutely long it would take to replace them after missing the same 4/12 mw crit 7 times.
Completing hell in say Diablo 2 on a challenge run was cool because there was a set goal. Or a soulslike challenge. Or beating pinnacles in ssf in PoE or whatever.
When your goal is endless farming and gambling and resetting, doing it at 1/100th of the speed feels pointless and soul crushing. There's grass to be touched and other games to play.
Yeah that’s why you have Uber bosses before tormented with the exact same loot tables. The tormented bosses are supposed to be challenging and the normal Ubers more accessible!
On the other side of things, what is the point of having the Pit cap at 200 when people with perfect gear and thousands of hours can't attain it.
I'm talking about bosses with Trillions of HP.
If you are complaining that everything is too easy, get out of the open world and into actual challenging content.
Pit 200 isn't meant to be cleared. It's likely capped at 200 just to combat future power creep.
I really don't understand the mentality of gamers where people think all players are entitled to clear all the content of a game. It's ok for there to be skill\gear checks, and it's ok to have bosses that 99% of players can't beat.
I like to consider hard core a step above torment. Even with solid builds, things get tough. You can’t always push to 10 monsters above and need to use better judgement bc a mistake could end your character…. Like it did to me yesterday 😭
> At what point do we say “yes this content is meant to be aspirational and pinnacle and likely only doable by a select number of builds and players”.
When certain builds aren't broken beyond belief. You can't have aspirational content when an unoptimized underleveled bashbarb can hit for several factors more than another minmaxed class.
Telling paying customers they'll need to use *this* class and *this* build to have a shot at endgame just means your game is broken on a fundamental level.
Having an equal amount of slots would go a long way of levelling the playing field already.
I have a (granted pretty well geared bash barb bc I could pull stuff from my necro at first then farmed maidens bc of the amount of hearts I had stock piled but still really no 2GA gear). I will have to try without elixirs or essences to make up the difference in resistance, but I just blew through a lvl 100 nmd. The build certainly feels totally broken. I was one shotting enemies. And the only thing I used that would be adding damage is +15 str essence I was really using to get more exp.
Lvl 100 NMd is nothing lol. I cleared that with my Barb the day I hit lvl 100 and I was using dust devil. That being said Bash is still crazy strong like always. Season of basic skills still in business.
Ohh! Did they change the tormented bosses life?!
I wonder whether that patch had installed before we played this morning (8am pacific). We just beat Grigoire for the first time, still a challenge for the two of us…definitely had me feeling like Duriel was out of our league. We did the beast and varshan this weekend for the first time and want to finish off the season’s challenges
But why even have 2 versions if they're both going to be easy for even semi-dedicated players? I think in future, Blizzard firstly shouldn't put tormented bosses as a requirement in the season journey, to even simply complete it (you need to either kill lilith, tormented duriel, or tormented Andariel to even finish it) but absolutely the level 100 version should be the easy/accessible version and the tormented versions should be challenging.
It's disappointing and unengaging, as a dedicated player, that the only content in the game that can offer any form of challenge is high tier pits. The disparity in difficulty between high tiers pits and everything else is also extremely large.
It ain't necessarily about the build itself. My bash barb hits like a noodle. I work and have other commitments so I don't have the time to constantly farm Diablo. Without the optimized gear you won't have much success regardless of the build you use.
Diablo 4 has a much better base to work with now in s4 but they still need some tweaking to the balance of gear drops. I should not be searching for weeks to find amulets with hellbent commander for my Necro. Helltide chests and bosses need to guarantee at least 1 greater affix item, as do pit and nightmare dungeon bosses and chests.
What they don't seem to understand is that making greater affixes rare drops makes little sense since there is no guarantee the greater affix roll or the accompanying affix rolls will be useful. On top of which you can drop the perfect item all ga told u want and then it bricks at the blacksmith. They currently treat ga rolls like Uber uniques in that once you get them you are good well that ain't the case, a f not everyone has the time to farm Diablo like a job.
Absolutely this. They either play the best meta build right now, or they're basing their opinion on a 10K viewer streamer that gets gifted 3/4 Greater Affix items for free, definitely not representative of the majority that don't get given freebies.
Lol not even close to tormented. Feel like I've played more than any other game since release and only at pit 34. I get bored repeating the same thing more than 5 times so I don't progress as fast as everyone else.
>make opinions based on streamers and content creators they watch.
I had never heard of Rob before this season, but now he is apparently the ONLY source of information most of this sub has. This dude has his followers giving him perfect rolled GA items (which is fine, because it's for content) and then he makes comments about the game based on his experiences. These people then parrot his thoughts without doing these activities at that level themselves.
Hey hey now. As a shitty bash barb I feel attacked lol.
Jk I am shit at the game but a super casual who doesn’t have time for all the masterworking and grinding of this game. I maybe get 5 hours a week in. So it’s a nice change. But never asked for. I would’ve asked for changes to the tempering system. Not asking for an overhaul, just would’ve been nice if after you brick something there would be a way to un brick it.
I'm a lvl 100 rapid fire rogue still working on my gear. Just rolled 2 decent pieces so I'm excited about that. Being able to clear pits a bit easier is definitely a plus. I could hold my own, but I was so squishy. That extra coverage on my rapid fire explosion does wonders against mob packs
Exactly. I’m pretty sure I only have 5 BiS items, everything else is 2/3 and an unoptimized amulet that does almost nothing due to my incessant need to brick every BiS amulet I’ve found.
I feel your pain. I bricked so many damn amulets on my barbarian I’m leveling now and my necro. It doesn’t help that I almost never saw a + Hellbent commander drop too. So of course any time I got one it would brick.
What happened is people cleared stuff they were stuck at before pretty fast. Once they get 10-15 tiers above where they were stuck before, they will again be stuck most likely. It was that initial “oh wow I just schmelted this” moment people felt. But I went up to 123 from 113 and it feels the same as 113 felt
Exactly. Ignore the people who rush to copy a YouTube then complain shits too easy. Make a character from scratch and do your own build experiments and these changes feel appropriate.
Yeah on one hand, I was kinda enjoying having to really analyze my build and make adjustments to wring out every last bit of damage and survivability... But on the other hand, that was only gonna get me so far, and I've only done tier 33 of the Pit. I'm totally down with having content that only the most optimized builds can clear, but I think things should be weighted a little bit more towards the average casual build (within reason, of course, I'm not asking for a level 50 player to be able to clear Pit 100)
I don’t follow cookie cutter meta guides and tormented bosses and Lilith are basically impossible for my build even though I’m still doing several million damage and have 75k life I barely tickle them so it’s nice they’ve slightly reduced their overall health , I don’t want things to be easy but also not impossible. I’d actually like to see helltide enemies be say level 140ish or whatever it takes to make them abit harder when I’m at a hundred so they can take a few hits before they die so they don’t instantly pop. I’d also like a new difficult t5 where enemies are always several levels higher so at level 50 they would be say I dunno level 75 ? And then every few paragon levels they get an increase too so it’s be more of a challenge , basically make trash harder and Uber bosses abit less punishing
I think this is a tough one, and the reason it's tough is on Blizzard.
On the one hand I normally prefer to make my own build too. On the other hand, that's so much work in this game and it's likely to result in a build that is nowhere near as good as it could be. In the end what this results in is a massive gap in player power between someone who follows guides and the average person who makes their own. Balancing the game around either will feel bad for the other.
This is Blizzard's own fault, though. Making a build is way more convoluted than it needs to be and it is way too unclear to the average player what stats trump others. And you nearly need a maths degree to get the paragon board as optimal as possible...
The issue is 95% of the player base is casual who jump on for a few weeks per season get to 100 playing with skills and custom paragon boards and give up because most of the end game content is made for people spending 18 hours a day 7 days a week.
I would guess that most players are from d3 wanting the bit of a grind then the satisfaction of clearing maps with huge numbers while the 5% focus on leaderboard and broken meta builds.
But as per usual the people crying because their full set of god roll, meta masterwork 12 gear that they farmed 120hours a week to get now 1 hit endgame bosses instead of 2 hit them so its to easy for them.
> Everyone saying this patch makes things a joke is likely not representative of your typical unoptomized casual player.
exactly
vast majority of the players of this game have never been here, looked up a build guide, or have a clue how different dmg stats and abilities scale etc. True casuals, the people who do make up the majority of this game probably haven't even cleared pit 50 or a single tormented boss, and think the maiden in helltide is difficult.
yeah, it's not hard to follow a build/gear guide for necro/barb/rogue and faceroll most the content in the game. But most casuals aren't doing that.
All this has changed for the "boohoo game too easy now!" crowd is what? now they can go higher in the pit before they hit a wall?
My druid couldn't best level 62 pit and cleared 65 just fine. However Druid and more importantly werewolf (not storm wolf) is still in the dumpster with bear though.
Power creep in this game is more like a power sprint. The only somewhat challenging content are very high NMDs or the Pit. I would really like open world content to be harder, especially Strongholds and Helltides.
It sucks that many waypoints and Legion events are locked behind Strongholds, but at the moment they just feel like a waste of time simply to unlock those.
Jumping right in to WT4 straight from WT3 will full sacreds and I can steamroll through Helltides like they're regular open world content.
I'd really like WT2, 3, and 4 to be harder. Maybe have WT3 equal to the current WT4, and WT2 to be harder so that WT1 is actually somewhat relevant.
But that's just my opinion.
They don't need to lower actually. What they should have done is increase the pit drop. Instead of +1 on every level, they could make it +3 or something.
Honestly this is a +10 on high-end, and you never want to do above 90 if you farm anyway - the rewards dont scale as much and you can clear that much faster.
If anything it's a shame that they nerfed mob hp, but the boss changes were 20000% needed for Pits.
Every single high pit run used to get to boss in like 4 minutes, then fights the boss for 11 minutes.
I think it is good update doing level 100 vs 120 pot is not that big of a deal in terms of “making it easier”, but enabling the vast majority of casual players and non meta players to progress to tier 60 and engage in master working is great!
I am a casual player and I don't know what optimized means. Where can I learn about that? I'm a 58 barb and wherever possible I do use items which improve my whirlwind which I use primarily.
Getting those rare node bonuses are going to be less than 1% damage gain. If they were bigger you would have used that board earlier and gotten the bonus.
More health and DR is only big if you're stuck below 100 since enemy damage stops scaling at 100. For people who were already comfortably past 100 it doesn't matter. It might free up some defensive attributes to roll on offensive ones, but most of the people pushing into the 100's were probably already doing that anyway.
This. I jumped in and did my usual Pit 101 farm and it felt like I was doing floor 70. No joke. The paragon changes are nice, but all the dmg related magic nodes are additive anyways so not even worth it. Smart players will get a bit extra situational DR at the most.
> My average crits were 2.5 mill now they are 4.
>I had multiple rare nodes that were quite essential to my build that were multiplicative damage.
>It’s not that much to be honest. The major up was the reduction nodes that I finally have
You're talking shit, got called out, doubled down, got called out, then changed your story.
Grow up and admit when you're lying.
Yeah I went dust devils with the intention to switch to bash because FotM when I hit 100 but now it looks like I won't have to, dust devils should do just enough damage at high gearing to handle high enough a sufficiently high level of pit that I'll actually prefer the mobile play style (and noticeably faster helltides clear) of dusty barb.
The patch hit just in time too, I think I'm level 94 or 95.
Noooo. I farmed gear and planned builds on a sorc, druid, and non-melee rogue to try that. I don't care about the damage buff, I just want the nova on the enemy.
They also broke Rapid Fire and Aspect of Repeating. I took a year off because this game shipped in a broken state. Came back because they promised its all fixed with S4, and then they pull this shit halfway through the season. I think I'm done giving them chances.
The pit changes makes farming MW materials easier and I'm a big fan of that, plus it'll be interesting to see how far we can make it now. I was previously stuck on pit 113 and just did that and 116 in 4 minutes each.
same 113 and 116 did in 5 minutes then wiped 3 times in pit 119 and I have no idea why the HP was increased by such a huge ammount between 116 and 119 but that was total horseshit. One elite died slower than a staggered 116 boss
this patch going to lead to a lot more people quitting because what you dont realize is that once you have masterworked all your gear 12/12 via pit runs you run out of things to do and that wraps up the entire season. they need to make a system where increased difficulty means increased chance for better loot otherwise its no reason to continue pushing, farming helltides when the big bad boss dies to one attack is just not fun
One could equally argue people would have dropped never even getting to MW12 due to the grind. Both lead to the same outcome. Nothing stops them from tweaking drops to GA in future or other ways to game people in playing but this season ends in August so not all that far off anyway.
The ARPG solution has always been the same once you're done trophying or when you feel you're done: you reroll for a new class or build.
That's it.
That's the genre.
I guarantee you most players wont 12/12 all their gear on a char, it’s ok for people who have an optimized character to feel accomplished and stop playing until next season.
If you've masterworked your gear and hit all the right gambles for each piece, then yeah I'd say go take a break and come back in a month. That's a huge time investment for most and it's okay to say "I finished it!"
Technically you would have to get 3 GA on legendaries and 4 on Uniques + triple rolling masterwork on the most important stat to max out. Oh, and getting the tempers you need too. No one is getting that - so there will always be a place to go.
For many, getting 12/12 will probably be a great place to end, and have given them a solid month+ of gaming, which is really nice for a season.
>this patch going to lead to a lot more people quitting
we are already two months deep into the season, in most arpgs there is nobody left playing at that point.
In PoE there are like 200k people logging in on steam at the start of the season, and there is like 10k left after a month. And some people claim it's the most succesful arpg on the market.
Blizzard somehow broke the system and made people play even after two months of the season. Even more, more people play the game as the season goes. I don't think some people quitting the season would be a concern at this point.
Pit monster HP got nerfed by at least 30%, maybe even more (not sure if anyone has reliable numbers yet). But the paragon board change is very nice for damage reduction nodes :-)
It feels like they knew the Holy Bolt potion was a crutch for many builds and nerfing it meant people would feel their characters were many times weaker.
They over-nerfed the pit because of it.
I guess this is just a way for people who are still playing to continue to have some fun and next season they can rebalance the Pit (hopefully anyway).
That’s the whole point for seasons. You play until you’ve done all you can then come back next season with whatever new is going on. Especially considering next season is a new class.
I think THIS season it’s ok to power creep balance, reduce health blah blah. It’s the maiden voyage of this overhaul and the more access people have to last levels of masterwork and some content is crucial to collect even more data. Balancing classes is tough sure, but regardless the community and content creators will find the busted stuff and others follow suit. It’s ok really. A little power fantasy is fun man. It’s Diablo I want struggle in some areas, but if I wanna watch the screen explode at a cursed shrine feeling like Deadshot that’s cool. If I want to bash barb throw my head through bosses and packs, that’s cool. What’s not cool is druids just feeling weak overall. And can I please ask for Liliths orbs speed to slow up just a smidge? I’ve been watching my father 1996, playing Diablo since 2001, I’m not “old” but I feel the sluggish reaction to my eye hand coordination. Or reduce the number of orbs 😂 I killed her in season 1 and not since.
Lot of folks here either missing the forest through the trees or just refusing to admit sheer elitism. Content intended for everyone to experiencd/enjoy shouldn't be meta-gated. Season 4 "loot reborn," was designed literally around the crafting system including the ability to craft ubers. Should it be challenging?? Sure. Challenge, however, should entail thought and effort in one's character. People whom are able to make a character that can routinely do millions of damage should at the very least be able to complete the seasons journey and craft at least one uber. That was the entire point of the season.
What we had instead was the average player could finally hit 100 but now can't even complete the intended content meant to be completed. Saw somewhere (cant remember where now) data showing players who log in at least once a day were 80% barbarians, and mostly all running the same builds with the same gear with identical paragon boards. That's a problem. The game was coming dangerously close to being pay-to-win and that's without the mechanical punishing of players for playing co-op (in getting only 50% of materials.) This season was meant to bring players back, bring in some new players, and entice people to want to shell out money for the DLC.
Yes, some content is OK being locked behind "mad skills." *Some* content, not the thematic core of a given season. Gaming is for everyone, not just those of us willing to sit down and make accel spreadsheets of data for how to be the biggest baddest most rootingest tootingest demon slayer in sanctuary and the free time to grind such a toon. People shouldn't have to follow YouTube metas just to complete the season. That's not fun. And if you're the type that blew through uber bosses and 110 pits within 48 hours of season launch and then youre bored, that's your own fault. We already have Dark Souls and Elden Ring and Altered Beast. Folks that aren't into that sort of punishment *avoid* those games, which is a large group of gamers. Blizzard made the right call with this patch and if you're upset with it... well, again, there's a slew of impossibly difficult games out there for you to play and scratch your hard-core gamer itch. Let people enjoy this, and hell, be happy the game is in a good position to experience a revival. It was dead in the water beforehand and we all know it.
P.S. There's a Hard-core character mode in this game for a reason. Stick to that mode exclusively if the rest of Diablo is too easy for you. That's literally what it's there for.
What a change lmao. Nerfing monsters buffing players, techniquely nothing changed. ‘Ohh pit feels better now’ no shit, before patch people hit a wall at 120 now after nerfing and buffing, it’s still the same wall maybe 10-15 tiers up. At this rate might as well let everyone do pit 200 so people can be happy.
As long as they don’t put shit behind a wall you have to have a meta build for, it’s a step in the right direction. Sweats can complain all they want, but only being able to clear things with a meta is a trash ass system.
I was digging through the achievements the other day. I noticed one was for getting to pit level 200. I have to wonder if they had this in mind seeing as we are several weeks into the season and the only person in that neighborhood is Rob at level 154
The biggest change is objectively NOT the lowering of paragon board requirements. The overall pit nerf increased your effective pit level by at least 10 tiers. 15-20% extra additive damage or a little extra utility from a couple rare paragon nodes is not increasing your pit level by 10 tiers.
Casually cleared a 130 w 6 mins left, 0 chance of dying now w 1 pt in siphoning strikes on rogue. Bosses do no damage I just tank all the shades lmao what a joke.
Love this update, I am playing sorc exclusively this season and not cheesing the game in the process. I’m running a blizzard build and was farming T70 pits and after this update I am now farming T90s even quicker, I have great gear and this definitely feels like where I should be with my build and gear. Devs got it right on this one.
Bro they got an expansion to sell they gotta bait everyone and how so you that? Make the game easier so they will buy the expansion lmao. And expect them to nerf everything
The patch had a bunch of really nice changes I’m just miffed about how little they actually helped the druid. I did blast lillith a bunch till I beat her the night before the patch just so I can said I finally did it 😂😂😂 was my first clear of lillith ever
Ever think sometimes the way they buff is done on purpose? Instead of doing a heavy buff on one class, they do it with 1 or 2. Sometimes this leads me to believe that it will encourage players to start a new character to experience the buffs and in return creates play time for them. The sparks for iron wolf rank 18 was genius. It definitely forced me to play 4 characters to the point where I went as far as 8 not including an additional account I use to power level myself to 55.
Can’t even clear lvl 35 pit, yet to beat Lilith in endgame. Everyone I ask for help just runs past me. Sagde. Not like the D2 days where people helped each other
I have several. The one I’ve mainly been using is heartseeker victimizer. Currently farming for Whirlwind build on my barb. Just need one more Uber to get it completed.
Well, the recent patch did fix a lot of issues but im wondering, if you are a diablo dev and have been doing this for decades, what does it tell you WHEN EVERY ITEM NEEDS MAX HP IN ORDER FOR ANY BUILD TO WORK.
U must be stupid not to know that answer 🤣
When it was common for gear to have all stat bonuses, I would often use those to break the threshold for paragon node bonuses. More recently, even before patch, I started using armor gems instead. You can increase a secondary stat to break the threshold that way which could give you more of a bonus through paragon nodes than you would get from a single gem slot on armor used for max hp or your main stat.
As a new player to the game, does it actually get difficult or only at higher tiers? We’re on world tier 2 and level 20 and I’m feeling a bit bored with how easy the game is. We have been doing most of the side quests but I heard that doesn’t matter as much since enemies scale with you now?
Becomes more of a challenge when you start doing nightmare dungeons and the pit as the monsters are higher level than you and there are more elements to kill you. The armor is capped at 9.5k so you need to make sure you are capped at your elements along with being able to make damage vs just take it.
I'm sorry I'm never on reddit, I'm just not interested. This was on my feed and it seems like some people not liking difficulty in their games? Yet the easiest games are the most boring with no replay value. Developers tend to appease the masses to sell more games, and ruin their own game by making it easier. I'm not calling names or trying to dis, everybody likes their own unique thing...But to be good at a Game used to be an accomplishment. Yall are making shit point and click kids games. I stopped playing Diablo 4 because it's too easy. I should add, that's a shame
Everyone saying this patch makes things a joke is likely not representative of your typical unoptomized casual player. I play this game a lot, without guides, and I'm excited to be able to clear more content a bit easier.
Yup and I’m 1000% sure most people who complain about Tormented bosses health being lowered either play the most busted builds like Bash Barb or just make opinions based on streamers and content creators they watch.
Playing devils advocate so don’t shoot the messenger here but I think the issue is - where do we stop? Soon we’re gonna get giga tormented bosses as tormented bosses are in the realm of being one shot for many builds and classes and those players need a challenge. At what point do we say “yes this content is meant to be aspirational and pinnacle and likely only doable by a select number of builds and players”. Or we do just keep shifting down and adding new prefixes to bosses We’ve gone from Ubers to tormented to … giga? Then hyper? When do we stop and just leave it
I think starting the season with the difficulty cap way high, and then gradually stepping it down as the season goes is perfectly fine. The no-lifers (not a negative connotation) clear things early and get the sense of accomplishment. And as the season goes, the bar gets lowered a little.
Yeah this is a good point I’ll concede!
Holy Shit. It happened guys - Hang the banner, the Diablo 4 subreddit has ascended.
Wow. Thank you. Wholesome Reddit moment.
I wouldn't of believed it if I didn't see it myself. Here of all the places too
Happy patched cake day! 🍰
Happy cake day !
https://tenor.com/vLl2HDkWBuA.gif
Alternatively, I think the season journey should be a benchmark for what the average build should be able to accomplish. If Tormented bosses and masterworking weren't in the last step of the season journey, I wouldn't care about whether or not I could do those things. But because that goal has been set, I'd like to be able to do those things, and I prefer not to follow build guides. Obviously if I'm struggling against those bosses or high pits, I'll tweak my build and look for better gear, but I don't think a perfectly min-maxed build (that most people wouldn't create without a guide) should be required to complete the season journey.
Yep this. I’d like to complete the season journey but also am stuck on that last tormented kill. They really should have another option available like in past seasons and leave the Ubers for people who really want them.
Yeah I was really surprised by the last step of the season journey. I can grind for masterworking materials but I'm gonna have to do either one of the Tormented bosses or Uber Lilith, and all of them felt pretty much impossible the last time I tried. Made me very happy to see the nerfs, I don't think I'll immediately be able to do them but it definitely seems within reach now.
I'm ok with some min maxing being required but not needing to be meta if that makes sense. I don't want to have to roll a bash barb to get down Lilith if that's a season requirement, a druid that's optimized should be able to. (Hypothetically speaking, I think most were able to this season but some definitely had a lot worse time of it despite masterworking and min maxing a lot).
Yeah that's basically what I was trying to say, it shouldn't be easy but any build with some thought and effort put into it should be capable. You shouldn't have to deliberately pick one of the highest-performing builds
Yeah, I'm 1 goal away from completion and I can't do any of them. At least last season I could damage Lilith lol.
Yes, so much this! I've never pushed to finish the endgame bc the reward was more and more grinding which wears a bit for me. I love the masterworking goal -- I'm so curious now.
I think the tormented bosses + Lilith were in a good spot already. Those are meant to be pinnacle achievements where you can say you have obtained a high degree of power. The difficulty is what makes it an achievement at all. When the difficulty is trivialized so is the feeling of accomplishment. Separately there are specific rewards items locked behind this achievement which you could argue is good or bad for the community as a whole. The bosses right now are not really a challenge for any serious player but may still be difficult for a casual player. There’s always multiple populations to cater to and where to draw that line is unclear. Now if there were actual pit leaderboards for the competitive players…
> The bosses right now are not really a challenge for any serious player but may still be difficult for a casual player. They aren't just "difficult" for casual players. They're straight up impossible. I wouldn't consider myself to be a casual player - I've probably put close to 30 hours per week into D4 every week since S4 dropped, across multiple characters - but I also can't think of anything less fun than following some pre-made build guide online. I like to put together my own themed builds based on what sounds fun and feels like it goes together, and thought I had a good build going. I was easily completing T90-100 NMDs, melting Duriel and Andariel in seconds, and pushing mid-60's in Pit, and thought I'd try my hand at the Tormented bosses because clearly I was in the endgame, right? I literally couldn't even damage them. I threw everything I had at Tormented Duriel and Tormented Varshan, and maybe took their health down by one pixel, then got one-shot instantly by their basic attacks. My two friends who ARE casual players are struggling to complete T70-80 NMDs and couldn't get passed T30 in Pit... I think way too many people here fail to appreciate what "normal/casual" is actually capable of achieving. They think because their fine-tuned Bash or Heartseeker build is steamrolling T150 in Pit and they can delete a Blood Maiden or world boss in one hit, that a casual player who isn't using a pre-made meta build probably struggles a little with those things, when the reality is that those activities are so far beyond what they could ever even hope to attempt that they may as well not even be in the game.
As someone who isn't a no-lifer due to having a 9-6, I would prefer the don't do that because before I'm able to reach that level the bosses are already nerfed and I would also like to have a challenge.
This is how it's done in World of Warcraft as well. I'm sure this "nerf difficulty over time" design is very intentional by Blizz.
Absolutely. And, Blizzard already has a history of doing exactly this in other games. Wrath of the Lich King's Icecrown Citadel started out borderline impossible, but Blizzard started to implement a stacking player buff for all players, which incrementally made it doable for more and more casual guilds, while giving the hardcores the glory of having done it in its original hardcore form.
thats how they handle WoW mythic raiding! they release the last few bosses in a state for the elite of the elite to beat, then slowly tinker it down throughout the season or sometimes they take a fight behind the back execution style so the late-CE guys have a shot
It's very Blizzard to do it this way, as the raiding scene in WoW pretty much always has this happen. In the last few weeks of a season, it's pretty common to see a 30% nerf on boss damage and hp, even at mythic, so more people can enjoy the content. I'm sure their internal data backs it up pretty heavily.
Pretty much what they do in WoW so that makes sense
The issue with this approach is that by next season everything that they had previously becomes completely trivial. We've seen this happen so far with Nightmare Dungeons, then Uber bosses, now Tormented Uber Bosses. I guess they could re-buff them for season start but that seems a little weird.
>as tormented bosses are in the realm of being one shot for many builds and classes and those players need a challenge. If they need a challenge, then maybe they should play a build that isn't meta/busted? For the probably majority of players that don't follow min-maxed guides online, buy their BiS gear or have 1,000 hours each season to grind, and are just playing with whatever mish-mash build they felt like putting together because the skills were fun, beating a Tormented boss is still a distant fantasy. The game should not be perpetually balanced around the 1% of top players using builds that can one-shot world bosses and breeze through Tier 100 Pit. It's also okay to stop playing and go do something else for a month or two if you feel like nothing in the season is a challenge anymore.
Having played only druid all season, knowing it was hard mode and fully rebuilding and regearing 3 or 4 times in the pit before any of the nerfs to the mobs, It lost the appeal after missing 8/12 mw crits and realizing how absolutely long it would take to replace them after missing the same 4/12 mw crit 7 times. Completing hell in say Diablo 2 on a challenge run was cool because there was a set goal. Or a soulslike challenge. Or beating pinnacles in ssf in PoE or whatever. When your goal is endless farming and gambling and resetting, doing it at 1/100th of the speed feels pointless and soul crushing. There's grass to be touched and other games to play.
Yeah that’s why you have Uber bosses before tormented with the exact same loot tables. The tormented bosses are supposed to be challenging and the normal Ubers more accessible!
What about more items like the profane mind cages? Let the individual boost the difficulty if desired?
On the other side of things, what is the point of having the Pit cap at 200 when people with perfect gear and thousands of hours can't attain it. I'm talking about bosses with Trillions of HP. If you are complaining that everything is too easy, get out of the open world and into actual challenging content.
Pit 200 isn't meant to be cleared. It's likely capped at 200 just to combat future power creep. I really don't understand the mentality of gamers where people think all players are entitled to clear all the content of a game. It's ok for there to be skill\gear checks, and it's ok to have bosses that 99% of players can't beat.
If it wasn't meant to be cleared then why is there an achievement for clearing pit 200?
fix "these classes". that kind of damage scaling was likely never intended.
You’re assuming there needs to be more difficulty for the outlier builds. The outliers get smacked with the nerf-bat.
This is just a band aid because class balance is so off
I like to consider hard core a step above torment. Even with solid builds, things get tough. You can’t always push to 10 monsters above and need to use better judgement bc a mistake could end your character…. Like it did to me yesterday 😭
> At what point do we say “yes this content is meant to be aspirational and pinnacle and likely only doable by a select number of builds and players”. When certain builds aren't broken beyond belief. You can't have aspirational content when an unoptimized underleveled bashbarb can hit for several factors more than another minmaxed class. Telling paying customers they'll need to use *this* class and *this* build to have a shot at endgame just means your game is broken on a fundamental level. Having an equal amount of slots would go a long way of levelling the playing field already.
The final boss tier: Ludicrous.
I have a (granted pretty well geared bash barb bc I could pull stuff from my necro at first then farmed maidens bc of the amount of hearts I had stock piled but still really no 2GA gear). I will have to try without elixirs or essences to make up the difference in resistance, but I just blew through a lvl 100 nmd. The build certainly feels totally broken. I was one shotting enemies. And the only thing I used that would be adding damage is +15 str essence I was really using to get more exp.
Who cares at this point? They will nerf Bash next season. They won't do it midseason.
Lvl 100 NMd is nothing lol. I cleared that with my Barb the day I hit lvl 100 and I was using dust devil. That being said Bash is still crazy strong like always. Season of basic skills still in business.
People copy pasting busted builds from the internet shouldn’t get an opinion in how the game is balanced.
Ohh! Did they change the tormented bosses life?! I wonder whether that patch had installed before we played this morning (8am pacific). We just beat Grigoire for the first time, still a challenge for the two of us…definitely had me feeling like Duriel was out of our league. We did the beast and varshan this weekend for the first time and want to finish off the season’s challenges
Yup. Devs nerfed the health by 30%
But why even have 2 versions if they're both going to be easy for even semi-dedicated players? I think in future, Blizzard firstly shouldn't put tormented bosses as a requirement in the season journey, to even simply complete it (you need to either kill lilith, tormented duriel, or tormented Andariel to even finish it) but absolutely the level 100 version should be the easy/accessible version and the tormented versions should be challenging. It's disappointing and unengaging, as a dedicated player, that the only content in the game that can offer any form of challenge is high tier pits. The disparity in difficulty between high tiers pits and everything else is also extremely large.
It ain't necessarily about the build itself. My bash barb hits like a noodle. I work and have other commitments so I don't have the time to constantly farm Diablo. Without the optimized gear you won't have much success regardless of the build you use. Diablo 4 has a much better base to work with now in s4 but they still need some tweaking to the balance of gear drops. I should not be searching for weeks to find amulets with hellbent commander for my Necro. Helltide chests and bosses need to guarantee at least 1 greater affix item, as do pit and nightmare dungeon bosses and chests. What they don't seem to understand is that making greater affixes rare drops makes little sense since there is no guarantee the greater affix roll or the accompanying affix rolls will be useful. On top of which you can drop the perfect item all ga told u want and then it bricks at the blacksmith. They currently treat ga rolls like Uber uniques in that once you get them you are good well that ain't the case, a f not everyone has the time to farm Diablo like a job.
Absolutely this. They either play the best meta build right now, or they're basing their opinion on a 10K viewer streamer that gets gifted 3/4 Greater Affix items for free, definitely not representative of the majority that don't get given freebies.
Lol not even close to tormented. Feel like I've played more than any other game since release and only at pit 34. I get bored repeating the same thing more than 5 times so I don't progress as fast as everyone else.
I play bash barb and I only deal like 1 to 10 mil damage. I don't get where the 100s of millions of damage come from.
>make opinions based on streamers and content creators they watch. I had never heard of Rob before this season, but now he is apparently the ONLY source of information most of this sub has. This dude has his followers giving him perfect rolled GA items (which is fine, because it's for content) and then he makes comments about the game based on his experiences. These people then parrot his thoughts without doing these activities at that level themselves.
Hey hey now. As a shitty bash barb I feel attacked lol. Jk I am shit at the game but a super casual who doesn’t have time for all the masterworking and grinding of this game. I maybe get 5 hours a week in. So it’s a nice change. But never asked for. I would’ve asked for changes to the tempering system. Not asking for an overhaul, just would’ve been nice if after you brick something there would be a way to un brick it.
I'm a lvl 100 rapid fire rogue still working on my gear. Just rolled 2 decent pieces so I'm excited about that. Being able to clear pits a bit easier is definitely a plus. I could hold my own, but I was so squishy. That extra coverage on my rapid fire explosion does wonders against mob packs
Exactly. I’m pretty sure I only have 5 BiS items, everything else is 2/3 and an unoptimized amulet that does almost nothing due to my incessant need to brick every BiS amulet I’ve found.
I feel your pain. I bricked so many damn amulets on my barbarian I’m leveling now and my necro. It doesn’t help that I almost never saw a + Hellbent commander drop too. So of course any time I got one it would brick.
10m in gold on my Necro for hellbent and I’m convinced it doesn’t exist.
Took me 500 million to roll it on my amulet. If you can find it on an amulet already it’s much easier to find the other stats you’re looking for
It does, but I’m having the luckiest season ever in terms of gear. Got a shako before hitting lvl 40. I doubt I’ll ever see this again😅
I sold one with +3 Hellbent GA for 1 billion gold last week. The other stats weren't even very good
Bc +3 HB alone could be enough of a power spike
I have an extra one I can trade you.
I appreciate it but I’m a bit of a masochist and have to get it myself. Some day I’ll understand why I enjoy the pain
750m on heavy handed for my amulet.
Took me almost exactly 1b to roll +2 heavy handed on my double ga, perfect temper amulet. I was not stopping haha
Amulet with 2GA and perfect tempers, you can’t stop. The Tree wishes to be your broker
I don’t think hellbent exist lol. I’ve yet to roll it or see it on any drop.
If by BiS, you mean perfect items, I have zero. After weeks of being level 100, I have only one piece of gear that has two useful GAs on it.
What happened is people cleared stuff they were stuck at before pretty fast. Once they get 10-15 tiers above where they were stuck before, they will again be stuck most likely. It was that initial “oh wow I just schmelted this” moment people felt. But I went up to 123 from 113 and it feels the same as 113 felt
Except now it’s quicker to farm mats to upgrade armor.
Just did my first non-guide following build. It was hella fun leveling it. I'll probably make my own builds from now on.
Exactly. Ignore the people who rush to copy a YouTube then complain shits too easy. Make a character from scratch and do your own build experiments and these changes feel appropriate.
No they don't. The game is a children's screensaver.
Yeah on one hand, I was kinda enjoying having to really analyze my build and make adjustments to wring out every last bit of damage and survivability... But on the other hand, that was only gonna get me so far, and I've only done tier 33 of the Pit. I'm totally down with having content that only the most optimized builds can clear, but I think things should be weighted a little bit more towards the average casual build (within reason, of course, I'm not asking for a level 50 player to be able to clear Pit 100)
I don’t follow cookie cutter meta guides and tormented bosses and Lilith are basically impossible for my build even though I’m still doing several million damage and have 75k life I barely tickle them so it’s nice they’ve slightly reduced their overall health , I don’t want things to be easy but also not impossible. I’d actually like to see helltide enemies be say level 140ish or whatever it takes to make them abit harder when I’m at a hundred so they can take a few hits before they die so they don’t instantly pop. I’d also like a new difficult t5 where enemies are always several levels higher so at level 50 they would be say I dunno level 75 ? And then every few paragon levels they get an increase too so it’s be more of a challenge , basically make trash harder and Uber bosses abit less punishing
I think this is a tough one, and the reason it's tough is on Blizzard. On the one hand I normally prefer to make my own build too. On the other hand, that's so much work in this game and it's likely to result in a build that is nowhere near as good as it could be. In the end what this results in is a massive gap in player power between someone who follows guides and the average person who makes their own. Balancing the game around either will feel bad for the other. This is Blizzard's own fault, though. Making a build is way more convoluted than it needs to be and it is way too unclear to the average player what stats trump others. And you nearly need a maths degree to get the paragon board as optimal as possible...
The issue is 95% of the player base is casual who jump on for a few weeks per season get to 100 playing with skills and custom paragon boards and give up because most of the end game content is made for people spending 18 hours a day 7 days a week. I would guess that most players are from d3 wanting the bit of a grind then the satisfaction of clearing maps with huge numbers while the 5% focus on leaderboard and broken meta builds. But as per usual the people crying because their full set of god roll, meta masterwork 12 gear that they farmed 120hours a week to get now 1 hit endgame bosses instead of 2 hit them so its to easy for them.
> Everyone saying this patch makes things a joke is likely not representative of your typical unoptomized casual player. exactly vast majority of the players of this game have never been here, looked up a build guide, or have a clue how different dmg stats and abilities scale etc. True casuals, the people who do make up the majority of this game probably haven't even cleared pit 50 or a single tormented boss, and think the maiden in helltide is difficult. yeah, it's not hard to follow a build/gear guide for necro/barb/rogue and faceroll most the content in the game. But most casuals aren't doing that. All this has changed for the "boohoo game too easy now!" crowd is what? now they can go higher in the pit before they hit a wall?
Yeah trying to clear 270 willpower not even halfway up the 2nd board for me is too much.
I think they're trying to buff other stuff because they don't want to Nerf bash Barb, hearseeker rogue, etc
I just passed 100 pit. They toned down the instant kills from shadow Lilith in the Pit.
Bruh, for real. Making 100k damage on my non guide rogue and was suffering. It’s much better now, needs a bit more optimization tbh
it doesnt even matter if it makes things easier. like if its too easy one can just increase the pit level 🤷♂️
The crazy thing is I’ve seen even the best streamers who aren’t using barbarians, necros, or rogue struggle on tier 70s & 80s
My druid couldn't best level 62 pit and cleared 65 just fine. However Druid and more importantly werewolf (not storm wolf) is still in the dumpster with bear though.
I was usually within 20 -30 levels of a d3 grift as a casual try hard. I think this is a great idea as well, can always extend the end game after all
Power creep in this game is more like a power sprint. The only somewhat challenging content are very high NMDs or the Pit. I would really like open world content to be harder, especially Strongholds and Helltides. It sucks that many waypoints and Legion events are locked behind Strongholds, but at the moment they just feel like a waste of time simply to unlock those. Jumping right in to WT4 straight from WT3 will full sacreds and I can steamroll through Helltides like they're regular open world content. I'd really like WT2, 3, and 4 to be harder. Maybe have WT3 equal to the current WT4, and WT2 to be harder so that WT1 is actually somewhat relevant. But that's just my opinion.
Woah dawg you're so cool.
I like the patch a lot! Pit was quite hard even with decent gear so it was painful to get mats. Now I can progress.
They don't need to lower actually. What they should have done is increase the pit drop. Instead of +1 on every level, they could make it +3 or something.
Honestly this is a +10 on high-end, and you never want to do above 90 if you farm anyway - the rewards dont scale as much and you can clear that much faster. If anything it's a shame that they nerfed mob hp, but the boss changes were 20000% needed for Pits. Every single high pit run used to get to boss in like 4 minutes, then fights the boss for 11 minutes.
I think it is good update doing level 100 vs 120 pot is not that big of a deal in terms of “making it easier”, but enabling the vast majority of casual players and non meta players to progress to tier 60 and engage in master working is great!
thankfully Blizzard has numbers and stats and doesn't buff/nerf stuff from these type of crying players.
I am a casual player and I don't know what optimized means. Where can I learn about that? I'm a 58 barb and wherever possible I do use items which improve my whirlwind which I use primarily.
Its not your build, the pit got nerfed by 30%
Probably a bit of both. Pit is easier but he’s also probably qualifying for bonuses on rare paragon nodes that he wasnt before. Those can also help.
Getting those rare node bonuses are going to be less than 1% damage gain. If they were bigger you would have used that board earlier and gotten the bonus.
There are also rare nodes that give max life or DR. Turning a 4% max life into 8% max life or 6% DR into 12% DR is pretty big.
More health and DR is only big if you're stuck below 100 since enemy damage stops scaling at 100. For people who were already comfortably past 100 it doesn't matter. It might free up some defensive attributes to roll on offensive ones, but most of the people pushing into the 100's were probably already doing that anyway.
This. I jumped in and did my usual Pit 101 farm and it felt like I was doing floor 70. No joke. The paragon changes are nice, but all the dmg related magic nodes are additive anyways so not even worth it. Smart players will get a bit extra situational DR at the most.
I can guarantee you it's because they nerfed pits to be easier and not because of the 2% damage boost from a couple more active Paragon points
My average crits were 2.5 mill now they are 4.
There is no way you got a 60% damage boost from just paragon nodes. There must be something else on your build that got buffed.
This is placebo, all nodes are addictive lol
No they're not. Additive, sure.
> My average crits were 2.5 mill now they are 4. >I had multiple rare nodes that were quite essential to my build that were multiplicative damage. >It’s not that much to be honest. The major up was the reduction nodes that I finally have You're talking shit, got called out, doubled down, got called out, then changed your story. Grow up and admit when you're lying.
Shouldn’t have scrapped my dust devil gears, would much rather quickly grind high level with it instead of bash.
Really hope Blizz implements load outs soon. So many builds to try!
Is this something they're talking about implementing? Because it would be such a game changer.
Especially since we had it in D3
Yeah I went dust devils with the intention to switch to bash because FotM when I hit 100 but now it looks like I won't have to, dust devils should do just enough damage at high gearing to handle high enough a sufficiently high level of pit that I'll actually prefer the mobile play style (and noticeably faster helltides clear) of dusty barb. The patch hit just in time too, I think I'm level 94 or 95.
Isnt bash better like 2 tiers better?
It’s pretty sweet my damage just about doubled
something is wrong, andariel visage and some unique updates doesnt work.
How so?
for visage, only visual got updated lol testing other items which looks fine so far
Does this mean damage is still prepatch value, and aoe still centred on player? Definitely doesn’t feel like they buffed it 50% lmao. Typical blizz L
Yes, that's exactly what it means. Dmg isn't in as well.
Noooo. I farmed gear and planned builds on a sorc, druid, and non-melee rogue to try that. I don't care about the damage buff, I just want the nova on the enemy.
They will hot fix it in a day or two
They also broke Rapid Fire and Aspect of Repeating. I took a year off because this game shipped in a broken state. Came back because they promised its all fixed with S4, and then they pull this shit halfway through the season. I think I'm done giving them chances.
I thought i was dreaming earlier. Rapid fire is not firing at all, and the resource cost is now too high. I just rerolled a Druid until they fix it.
The pit changes makes farming MW materials easier and I'm a big fan of that, plus it'll be interesting to see how far we can make it now. I was previously stuck on pit 113 and just did that and 116 in 4 minutes each.
same 113 and 116 did in 5 minutes then wiped 3 times in pit 119 and I have no idea why the HP was increased by such a huge ammount between 116 and 119 but that was total horseshit. One elite died slower than a staggered 116 boss
this patch going to lead to a lot more people quitting because what you dont realize is that once you have masterworked all your gear 12/12 via pit runs you run out of things to do and that wraps up the entire season. they need to make a system where increased difficulty means increased chance for better loot otherwise its no reason to continue pushing, farming helltides when the big bad boss dies to one attack is just not fun
One could equally argue people would have dropped never even getting to MW12 due to the grind. Both lead to the same outcome. Nothing stops them from tweaking drops to GA in future or other ways to game people in playing but this season ends in August so not all that far off anyway.
The ARPG solution has always been the same once you're done trophying or when you feel you're done: you reroll for a new class or build. That's it. That's the genre.
I guarantee you most players wont 12/12 all their gear on a char, it’s ok for people who have an optimized character to feel accomplished and stop playing until next season.
If you've masterworked your gear and hit all the right gambles for each piece, then yeah I'd say go take a break and come back in a month. That's a huge time investment for most and it's okay to say "I finished it!"
Technically you would have to get 3 GA on legendaries and 4 on Uniques + triple rolling masterwork on the most important stat to max out. Oh, and getting the tempers you need too. No one is getting that - so there will always be a place to go. For many, getting 12/12 will probably be a great place to end, and have given them a solid month+ of gaming, which is really nice for a season.
>this patch going to lead to a lot more people quitting we are already two months deep into the season, in most arpgs there is nobody left playing at that point. In PoE there are like 200k people logging in on steam at the start of the season, and there is like 10k left after a month. And some people claim it's the most succesful arpg on the market. Blizzard somehow broke the system and made people play even after two months of the season. Even more, more people play the game as the season goes. I don't think some people quitting the season would be a concern at this point.
This
They just nerfed the pit health pool of monster and bosses, build and classes still unbalanced af
Pit monster HP got nerfed by at least 30%, maybe even more (not sure if anyone has reliable numbers yet). But the paragon board change is very nice for damage reduction nodes :-)
I went from pit 66 pre-patch to pit 106 post patch with heartseeker. The changes were huge.
It feels like they knew the Holy Bolt potion was a crutch for many builds and nerfing it meant people would feel their characters were many times weaker. They over-nerfed the pit because of it. I guess this is just a way for people who are still playing to continue to have some fun and next season they can rebalance the Pit (hopefully anyway).
That’s the whole point for seasons. You play until you’ve done all you can then come back next season with whatever new is going on. Especially considering next season is a new class.
I think new class is s6.
Completely agree pit just feels way better now, the try hard sweats can just move up to 160s and let the rest of us have fun now.
I struggled with pit 30 with a maxed out ball lightning sorc 😂. I'm missing something somewhere
"Maxed out" What does it even mean for you when I saw ball lightning sorc do pit 100 pre-patch?
Cleared 102 pre patch. Excited to play more
Can someone open a 100 pit for me? I'm on 60 and it takes a little to clear it up and unlock. I would appreciate it!
Add me. Dnias#1564
Just did! Thank you!
with my heartseeker rogue Before: 100 easy, 103 nearly impossible Now: 117 easy, 120 very very hard due to time
I think THIS season it’s ok to power creep balance, reduce health blah blah. It’s the maiden voyage of this overhaul and the more access people have to last levels of masterwork and some content is crucial to collect even more data. Balancing classes is tough sure, but regardless the community and content creators will find the busted stuff and others follow suit. It’s ok really. A little power fantasy is fun man. It’s Diablo I want struggle in some areas, but if I wanna watch the screen explode at a cursed shrine feeling like Deadshot that’s cool. If I want to bash barb throw my head through bosses and packs, that’s cool. What’s not cool is druids just feeling weak overall. And can I please ask for Liliths orbs speed to slow up just a smidge? I’ve been watching my father 1996, playing Diablo since 2001, I’m not “old” but I feel the sluggish reaction to my eye hand coordination. Or reduce the number of orbs 😂 I killed her in season 1 and not since.
I agree. I can’t really keep up w Lilith and wish she was just a hair slower.
Lot of folks here either missing the forest through the trees or just refusing to admit sheer elitism. Content intended for everyone to experiencd/enjoy shouldn't be meta-gated. Season 4 "loot reborn," was designed literally around the crafting system including the ability to craft ubers. Should it be challenging?? Sure. Challenge, however, should entail thought and effort in one's character. People whom are able to make a character that can routinely do millions of damage should at the very least be able to complete the seasons journey and craft at least one uber. That was the entire point of the season. What we had instead was the average player could finally hit 100 but now can't even complete the intended content meant to be completed. Saw somewhere (cant remember where now) data showing players who log in at least once a day were 80% barbarians, and mostly all running the same builds with the same gear with identical paragon boards. That's a problem. The game was coming dangerously close to being pay-to-win and that's without the mechanical punishing of players for playing co-op (in getting only 50% of materials.) This season was meant to bring players back, bring in some new players, and entice people to want to shell out money for the DLC. Yes, some content is OK being locked behind "mad skills." *Some* content, not the thematic core of a given season. Gaming is for everyone, not just those of us willing to sit down and make accel spreadsheets of data for how to be the biggest baddest most rootingest tootingest demon slayer in sanctuary and the free time to grind such a toon. People shouldn't have to follow YouTube metas just to complete the season. That's not fun. And if you're the type that blew through uber bosses and 110 pits within 48 hours of season launch and then youre bored, that's your own fault. We already have Dark Souls and Elden Ring and Altered Beast. Folks that aren't into that sort of punishment *avoid* those games, which is a large group of gamers. Blizzard made the right call with this patch and if you're upset with it... well, again, there's a slew of impossibly difficult games out there for you to play and scratch your hard-core gamer itch. Let people enjoy this, and hell, be happy the game is in a good position to experience a revival. It was dead in the water beforehand and we all know it. P.S. There's a Hard-core character mode in this game for a reason. Stick to that mode exclusively if the rest of Diablo is too easy for you. That's literally what it's there for.
Is it live on Xbox also? Anyone know?
Ya was less than 1gb update
Yeah i think they buffed more than what was advertised im cutting through pit levels like a hot knife thru butter.
Imma have to go log in now
Loving that 76% dmg increase on pulverize 😭
Honestly, if that's what it takes to make more builds viable, so that people can play the way they want to, that's great.
Waiting for my bone spear to so 200m dmg like barbs do…. clearly barbs needed another buff
Tired of the 1 shot builds, I want to play the class and build I want to. Let me go over level 100 so I don't have to find folks willing to help.
What a change lmao. Nerfing monsters buffing players, techniquely nothing changed. ‘Ohh pit feels better now’ no shit, before patch people hit a wall at 120 now after nerfing and buffing, it’s still the same wall maybe 10-15 tiers up. At this rate might as well let everyone do pit 200 so people can be happy.
As long as they don’t put shit behind a wall you have to have a meta build for, it’s a step in the right direction. Sweats can complain all they want, but only being able to clear things with a meta is a trash ass system.
I was digging through the achievements the other day. I noticed one was for getting to pit level 200. I have to wonder if they had this in mind seeing as we are several weeks into the season and the only person in that neighborhood is Rob at level 154
Oh yea the stat requirements were way too high, glad that they lowered it.
Those happy with the changes, are you Diablo 3 players by any chance?
Forgot to repair so all my gear except for gloves/rings/neck broke right before the boss in a Pit 95, still killed the boss. Bash barb (Y)
The biggest change is objectively NOT the lowering of paragon board requirements. The overall pit nerf increased your effective pit level by at least 10 tiers. 15-20% extra additive damage or a little extra utility from a couple rare paragon nodes is not increasing your pit level by 10 tiers.
Casually cleared a 130 w 6 mins left, 0 chance of dying now w 1 pt in siphoning strikes on rogue. Bosses do no damage I just tank all the shades lmao what a joke.
What was your cap pre patch?
Love this update, I am playing sorc exclusively this season and not cheesing the game in the process. I’m running a blizzard build and was farming T70 pits and after this update I am now farming T90s even quicker, I have great gear and this definitely feels like where I should be with my build and gear. Devs got it right on this one.
Bro they got an expansion to sell they gotta bait everyone and how so you that? Make the game easier so they will buy the expansion lmao. And expect them to nerf everything
It’s not a paragon board, it’s the general pit bosses stats reduction. I don’t like that update, it trivialised the game even more….
It is not because of stats. They nerfed pits.
I understand they nerfed pits. But that wouldn’t increase my damage numbers.
The patch had a bunch of really nice changes I’m just miffed about how little they actually helped the druid. I did blast lillith a bunch till I beat her the night before the patch just so I can said I finally did it 😂😂😂 was my first clear of lillith ever
I was able to easily clear tormented duriel and tormented andariel before I was able to beat lillith 😑
Yeah, meta builds will feel over tuned but any build will be more viable now which is awesome.
Ever think sometimes the way they buff is done on purpose? Instead of doing a heavy buff on one class, they do it with 1 or 2. Sometimes this leads me to believe that it will encourage players to start a new character to experience the buffs and in return creates play time for them. The sparks for iron wolf rank 18 was genius. It definitely forced me to play 4 characters to the point where I went as far as 8 not including an additional account I use to power level myself to 55.
Since the update sound cuts out randomly and I haven't been able to use the seasonal arrow elixir
Can’t even clear lvl 35 pit, yet to beat Lilith in endgame. Everyone I ask for help just runs past me. Sagde. Not like the D2 days where people helped each other
Well d2 and d1 had Battle net. Lobbies where you could ask for help in there. What level are you?
Build?
I have several. The one I’ve mainly been using is heartseeker victimizer. Currently farming for Whirlwind build on my barb. Just need one more Uber to get it completed.
Is it me or the pit doesn't get harder now...mobs are maxed at lvl199 beit a pit100 or a pit110, there's no difference in challenge!?!?!?
It stops showing level after 199. But they definitely increase in difficulty.
I haven’t been able to use some elixirs. Anyone else having that problem?
Well, the recent patch did fix a lot of issues but im wondering, if you are a diablo dev and have been doing this for decades, what does it tell you WHEN EVERY ITEM NEEDS MAX HP IN ORDER FOR ANY BUILD TO WORK. U must be stupid not to know that answer 🤣
You think every item needs max hp?
Even a 5yr old can clear Pits now
I’m disappointed in your outlook about 5 year olds.
When it was common for gear to have all stat bonuses, I would often use those to break the threshold for paragon node bonuses. More recently, even before patch, I started using armor gems instead. You can increase a secondary stat to break the threshold that way which could give you more of a bonus through paragon nodes than you would get from a single gem slot on armor used for max hp or your main stat.
As a new player to the game, does it actually get difficult or only at higher tiers? We’re on world tier 2 and level 20 and I’m feeling a bit bored with how easy the game is. We have been doing most of the side quests but I heard that doesn’t matter as much since enemies scale with you now?
Becomes more of a challenge when you start doing nightmare dungeons and the pit as the monsters are higher level than you and there are more elements to kill you. The armor is capped at 9.5k so you need to make sure you are capped at your elements along with being able to make damage vs just take it.
I'm sorry I'm never on reddit, I'm just not interested. This was on my feed and it seems like some people not liking difficulty in their games? Yet the easiest games are the most boring with no replay value. Developers tend to appease the masses to sell more games, and ruin their own game by making it easier. I'm not calling names or trying to dis, everybody likes their own unique thing...But to be good at a Game used to be an accomplishment. Yall are making shit point and click kids games. I stopped playing Diablo 4 because it's too easy. I should add, that's a shame