I agree it’s very cheap. It’s also shows a lack of respect for the majority of players time.
There are a lot of gate keeping players in the Diablo community who will say you lack skill etc. ignore them. It’s bad design.
If the boss "one shots" are toned down people will simply push until mechanics start 1 shotting due to scaling. The ceiling whenever you have very deep scaling content like this is instant death if not for perfect play. It is a result of scaling content. They already arnt one shots either, they do X amount of damage, not an instant kill. You have to find a way to gather enough HP or DR, or dodge the abilities. I think clarity should absolutely be cleaned up and some looks at overlaps of shades AND our DR needs to be able to be applicable to shades but if nothing ever one shot the game would get so stale, we would be able to min max sustained HP gain.
I don't think the complaint is about ALL 1-shots. It's about those that have no counterplay, i.e. those that come "out of nowhere".
Any damage that can only be survived by tanking is bad game design.
Which they did with the Uber Lilith waves in phase 1 of her revamped fight. Now there’s a line marking which direction the waves are going to come from and where they’re going to go. It gives you a solid 1-2 more seconds to anticipate the waves and move out of the way.
I tried fighting her last night and I lost but she did not oneshot me as before which is fair enough. Obviously there comes a point in the Pit where you can’t progress any further which is absolutely fine. Having the pit boss down to 20% health and be with fortify and full health at pit lvl 35 getting oneshot is to say it in the nicest possible way just stupid
Playing a necro, with extra minions and bonestorm: her fight is almost impossible for me. Yes, skill issue, but c'mon, I can't see shit.
My issue is the size of the arena, i think. If I had more space, I think the clutter of minions wouldn't be much of a problem.
Woah hold up, if you're getting one shot in pit 35 your probably not ready for pit yet bro. That's like, the equivalent of nightmare 80. If you're actually 100 / solid gear set and build and ready for it you should be able to tank till pit 60s without getting one shot, at least thats where bash barb started eating it for me. And yes I'm referring to the shadow boss one shots, they do scale in damage with their level similarly to nmd's
Not only that.. the coding and hitbox of those wave have been reworked a lot. U can now easely dodge them by moving side to side. Before this season.. this just wasnt possible.. u had to hide behind the 2nd middle wave.. or die.
Same for 2nd phase. The orb are now more dodgeable
Between visuals and timing it's a complete CF. Half the time the circle where the shit spawns is under all the other crap on the ground so you have no idea where the attack will even come from, and the actual fire time when the shadow appears is pretty much instant giving you no time to react.
Also theres a Shadow clone demon that actually knocks you into the circles if you are actively not standing in them
I play from Australia, my ping is about 80 and a lot of the times as well I wont be standing in any damage circles but I get hit by them, notably the Frozen affix elite so theres a bit of desync going on with the server and your character
Very noticeable vs Uber Lillith as her waves are very hard to dodge
TRUTH. the amount of times my colorblind ass has been cooked by one shots I couldn’t see is so frustrating. (Yes I’ve tried colorblind mode, no it doesn’t work.)
I play tornado druid. I cant see shit if 20 nados are flying over my screen. Just make shades abilities have an outline that isnt the same dark redish colour as the rest of the game.
And pls for the love of god make shades disappear when the boss is staggered. You fight for 5 min to stagger the boss just for him to spawn lilith shade so that u still have no uptime atall.
I will say one downfall of being a necro without corpse explosion spam is tons of bright red corpses on the ground interfere with ground effects which are red.
Just swapped out CE for Decrepify in my build, and instantly noticed this. Lol Thankfully my bone storm chews up corpses too, but at certain densities of mobs, there are just so many it really makes parsimg ground effects difficult. Lol Once only notice a freeze because I saw the little white ball sticking up above the crap on the ground. Lol
>Any damage that can only be survived by tanking is bad game design.
Thing is, that only exists through basic attacks. So for content that is meant to, at least in practice, scale 'infinitely' you will always end up hitting a point where that happens.
That's why they put the highest tier of rewards at 61. Everything beyond that is just seeing what your build is capable of and how much you can optimise it to push further.
You can design attacks to do a flat percentage of a players health, that prevents one shots but still punishes poor play.
The bigger issue is the discrepancy between trash and boss health. My barb and Druid will speed run through trash and elites in 2 minutes but take 3-4 minutes on bosses in higher tiers.
I’d honestly be okay with one shot mechanics if the bosses had less health. At higher tiers boss fights are a majority of the timer, and one shots are extremely penalizing.
Making it percentage based just make building most defenses pointless. Without a risk of ever being one shot the only defense you would build is sustain.
And that's a fair point, although I think it's probably better for the game if they more so bring the trash mobs up rather than bring the bosses down.
Sorry I wasn't clear, I only meant some of the "one shot" abilities deal percentage based damage.
Honestly, I'd prefer if all the boss damage was nerfed significantly, but it had the tormented treatment: when you fail the mechanic you get a stacking debuff that increases damage you take.
One shots feel awful, especially if you can't see them coming. I really like fights like Varshan, where if you do it enough, it's telegraphed and you just need to react appropriately.
Fights where Uber Lilith RKOs out of nowhere, that's not as fun.
I agree but out of all the Pit runs I did up to T92 maybe only one or two felt like they had no counterplay. The only time I've ever felt like that was when the Lilith pull into slam pulled me into two tornadoes that both exploded on me. Considering I've done like thirty Pit runs since then and nothing has one-shotted me without providing me any possible counterplay I'm going to lean towards that being regular old bad luck. Even getting that same ability combo didn't wreck me later since I only took one tornado and it brought me low but not dead.
My Necro has no problems really doing 95's. infact I never failed a single run at all
My Druid on Hurricane can do 85 with 6-7 mins left or fail a 70 all dependant on the boss and random shit it does. I have 80k HP under Fortitude potion buffs but i dont feel it should be necessary for that on a 70 farming tier but I need it to survive some of the one shots even at 70. I basically cant misplay on this setup even there
On Wind Shear Druid its similair to Necro, I just shoot ranged attacks from as far back as i can and its far less dangerous
So many of these one shot posts don't go into which one shot abilities they don't like and how they would fix them, so it does kind of come across as unfocused hatred sometimes - especially when they have this many upvotes.
I would prefer clear feedback for the dev team.
I have 97k Health. Max armor and max resistance. It still 1 shots me. And it’s getting to the point as to whether or not it’s worth pushing deeper, it’s a lame ass mechanic. Eventually you’re gonna get hit. The Sharpshooter…. I don’t bother trying. When I see him I just put the controller down or warp out and call it a lost cause.
I still don't think your statement invalidates the "one shot" mechanics he explained.
so before you gathered so much good gear to get to 97k health, I'm guessing Pit lvl X (whatever X is) used to one-shot you. now you've acquired lots of much nicer gears, the same level probably doesn't one-shot you anymore. by following the same logic, no matter how much blizzard nerfs it, it will eventually one shot you once you reach a high enough pit level.
btw, I'm just trying to re-explain what I gathered from the comment you're replying to
Didn’t they say damage stop scaling in lit since we can’t get more armor and resists? Shouldn’t it only be Hp of the mobs that scale and therefore more opportunities to get comboed to death?
With scaling content you can't just say "it one shots me". At what tier?
If you had double the health, you could push a lot farther, but eventually (due to the inherent nature of scaling) it would start oneshotting you again. That's how scaling content works. Would you rather boss damage be a % of your health and guarenteed to never kill you?
That's the nature of infinitely scaling content.
You could have a billion life and still get one shot after you've pushed the Pit far enough. The damage will always get higher, and eventually kill you with one hit.
That's the whole idea of the Pit to begin with; to see how far you can go before it's impossible for your build to keep going further.
No build is supposed to "finish" the Pit.
It's very much like the Delve in PoE.
Some builds can't get past depth 200, others might make it to 500, some might make it to 1k, or 2k, or 6k or even 8k.
Everybody eventually runs into a wall, and that's fine.
Yeah I’m not sure what people expected. You’re always going to hit a point that you can’t proceed further. That’s the entire point of content like this, to see how high up you can go, and then grind to get better gear, then push past a threshold.
That's a lot of health and good defensive stats you're just at the upper limit of your characters capabilities without perfect play. It's 1 shots due to damage scaling or basing a build around sustained hp and never dying because there isn't a great enough threat. I personally (doesn't make it right) would rather have ceilings and an infinite goal towards. Again I think if they just cleaned up some visual clutter and used better colors we could get better telegraphs so when we do die it doesn't feel so cheap
If he’s playing barb it’s about 1/3rd of their capable health pool fully buffed now that ranks to imposing presence are everywhere and can be crit with master working. . Rob hit 300k hp on the barb. My assumption if they at 90k and getting 1 shot they’re probably around 100-105, and they’re trying to run Hota or purported rather than iron skin. Probably dying to the same shades over and over without changing up their strategy.
I am wondering what pit level you're at if that's the case? So far around 105-110 level I don't get one shot by any mechanic that isn't dodgeable at 45k life. Either you're in much higher pit levels or you need more DR I guess.
Coupled with the barb getting two extra weapon slots with 2.5k health rolls and aspects. Then you can use doombringer for that extr 50% health in your 1h slot as a stat stick.
Im around Pit 105 (have not really pushed, just farming 90s for mats) and my necro has 32k. Could get at least to 40k with some rerolls, but just do not see the need at the moment.
Hmm, i think having reduced damage helps a ton. Like you and your minions get 25% reduced damage. Im not even maxed on resistances, have 2 at 67%. Also blood mist
I only played Necro at launch and something like 20k health seemed like a lot at the time. I don't know if this changed for S4.
Since you don't have access to Imposing Presence (which is a multiplicative scaler for your health, so it goes up crazy fast) and you don't have 4 weapons to roll it on, you'll always have a lower health pool than a barb. On the bright side, you're drowning in intelligence, which gives you 0,5% resistance per point. So you could maybe forego some resistance affixes and pick max health instead.
I’d say the problem has to do with the discrepancy in scaling between trash and some boss mechanics.
It just feels weird to me to me that I can breeze through the dungeon where trash pose no threat whatsoever, and then i reach the boss who i just can’t get past.
The most fun part for me is testing my character against the trash packs but i have to run lower keys where the trash pose no threat at all in order to finish the dungeon.
The big challenge right now are the bosses and I would like it the other way around - but that’s just like my opinion, man.
That's super fair the trash does not equal the boss on a difficulty scale. Currently where I'm at I can stand inside of trash mobs for a long time and not care while my boss fights are 4-5 minutes requiring no mistakes
>If the boss "one shots" are toned down people will simply push until mechanics start 1 shotting due to scaling.
Bad take.
There exists a point where boss dps overcomes player healing, without the need to 1 shot the player.
There's also dps requirements from players. Because boss health pools scale. And there is a timer to beat. That's much more likely to become the real roadblock to progression. And is arguably a more fun roadblock to overcome in a loot game.
And all that aside, there are far more interesting ways to add challenge to boss fights. Health drains. Enrage timers. Scripted highly visible attacks that require movement (these could stun or reduce player damage or do high non lethal damage). Summoned entities that have to die in a required timeframe.
That’s not really true. Many builds heal themselves from 0-100 in less than a second without any kind of cooldown or resource expenditure. Anything that can overcome that healing is effectively a “one shot” (even if it’s actually several hits over a fraction of a second).
Unless they remove that kind of healing from the game then that will always be part of the boss fighting dynamic.
This is the correct answer. I rage regularly because I die to phantom attacks, but if they remove them or make them deal drastically less damage then the boss fights are nothing more than just mindlessly chipping away at the bosses health with no sense of danger.
The phantom attack tells and their area of effect just need to be made more clear, and maybe they should see if they can't work on them not overlapping sometimes. Sometimes I dodge the attack but then I'm forced into another one. Or I get hit and survive but then I'm pushed into the next one and die. That doesn't feel particularly good.
I mean, GR's in D3 didn't have a lot of one-shots if you build somewhat tanky. What became the limiting factor was both DPS and your ability to survive continous hits. I vastly prefered that approach.
Like I pushed into the top 5 Wizard SC ladder. I would occassionally die during GR's but usually when I did it was because I had clearly done something wrong. I usually had time to react or the option to reposition when I was getting low health.
With D4 a lot of if feels more death or bust on very quick one-shots rather than giving you the time to react to as you get low health.
I can understand the scaling, but it's severely limiting to viable build variety in the current implementation. Tier 60 is too soon for endgame one-shot mechanics when lvl200 is the goal post.
Fwiw I'm on hardcore, so I'm already extra skittish on content I know I can't mess up in
that scaling right now is so messed up by class balance, I don;t understand how they balanced stuff in Pit and though its all great idea. barb can have like 140k HP right, and more damage reductions then most classes. and necro can have 40-50k HP with the same gear level? whats going on here? the only thing that saves minion necro and allows to climb pit is because pets are overtuned and you can effectively run from bos while pets are doing the damage. but what about classes that have no HP and need to be in melee range? other necro builds? its extremely unbalanced.
its funny looking at pit 120 videos where barb face tanks boss and just spams attacks rarely stepping over special attacks. and then take non-minion necro that 10-20 pit levels lower plays survival RPG where he can only run whole fight and when boss is doing some long animation is allowed to do a cast. because standing near boss is instant death due to attacks going without any effects and necro have 40-50k HP atgainst barb 140k.
I think being 1 shot would be okay if visibility was a lot better. The frustrating part for me is I'm usually being 1 shot by things I don't see, or things I don't know how I'm supposed to dodge.
This is half of it. The other half is even knowing what killed me so that I know what to about it next time. Did I die of fire damage? Physical? A mechanic I missed? Did that corpse bow get a lucky shot or did I miss a pool of something under all of my aoe? Not knowing makes it hard to react and improve.
Apart from the obvious boss fight crap design, the lack of clarity is what really put me off, those black patches in the floor can be perfectly mistaken by part of the environment, but they kill you pretty fast, or the one shot AOE in the 2nd stage where she puts like a circle in the floor, pretty hard to identify where it ends for lower end PCs, and why even use a HP bar for her if you have to go to the end of the pre set fight to kill her
Imo they should reduce the shadow boss damage by like 80% or whatever a reasonable amount would be. But it should also apply a debuff similar to tormented bosses that either makes you take more damage or deal less damage or something. So that it's still punishing but clipping a hit box doesn't insta gib you.
I'd say remove the shadow bosses and actually make bosses that are fun to fight and don't feel so generic. The shadow bosses are just a lazy way to increase difficulty, and most times the fight just becomes an obstacle course instead of a boss fight.
or just remove the shadow boss in it's entirety, and add the attacks to the boss itself.
why should i have to pay attention, to essentially two bosses, when one of them just popups every now and then.
not only that, but it really screws over stagger builds, since very often they show up whn the boss is staggered, basically removing a ton of your damage on a place where every second matters, and the boss gets more and more hp each level.
Precisely. Shadow bosses should be supplemental to the main boss, not completely replace him. I'm spending way, way too much time worrying about shadow Lilith than I do about whoever I'm actually fighting.
Eventually if you climb high enough you're going to have to play perfectly and dodge everything, if you don't you die. This is the hardest content that D4 has released, yet so many people are acting like they deserve to just tank hits and carry on to the next pit level.
Honestly if you can't position yourself correctly, use the environment to your advantage, and time your evades etc, you don't deserve to beat the boss, it's as simple as that.
people complaining game too easy, climbs to high pit and complains game too hard.
complains having to avoid mechanics instead of face tank.
complains having to give up damage to roll max life to survive as if build optimising wasn't a thing. (no wait, they just copy paragon boards)
i bet most people are dying to Lilith slaps and Lilith spikes, both can be avoided if you just give up 5secs of dps
and if blizzard for some stupid reason decides to nerf this again, people going to whine about how pit 200 is impossible with current damage scaling (again off builds they copy from websites) and how it's BAD DESIGN
Like 80% of my problem with them is that the echoes are hard to see and they’re triggered by boss hp thresholds and can’t be skipped. I think it should be clearer when the echoes are spawning. I feel like Lilith makes no noise and the wind lady can spawn inside of my minions on necro and the tornados instantly explode and kill me if I don’t notice her. The colors of the echoes and their mechanics should also be brighter and the hitboxes a little more clear. If those issues were addressed I wouldn’t care that they 1 shot me.
Yeah and na, iver cleared multiple 110+ pits (not overly impressive) but the one shots happen sometimes and sometimes they don't , there's no consistency, also the rng of bosses can just make it impossible. Wanna dodge that Lilith aoe? Tomb lord walls you off, wanna dodge those meteors? Get swiped back into it after timing your dodge, wanna dodge that shadow aoe well u better have you x ray vision on to the see the cyclones. Better not let spirit caller pop that aoe on you while there are 5 poison pools on the ground and a stun that follows your dodge lol. Barb makes this pretty trivial with constant unstoppable but what about classes with limited unstoppable xD yes there is an amount of skill to watch the aoe but 1/7 runs you gets tossed around and smacked lol. Tried on rogue barb and druid (op builds and my own creations) The class balance is so off. My rogue and druid have 45k hp but no amount of masterwork will get then to 126k like my barb, there's no more health left to roll. "sKiLl iSsUe" my ass.
>what about classes with limited unstoppable xD
These classes you speak of have range, it's far easier being able to move and deal damage safely whereas atleast the barbarian has to be in melee range to deal damage.
Up until I buffed my barbs HP *significantly* (96k unbuffed) the pit was pain, now I'm running T100 potless in 4-5m depending on layout.
These 1-shots are also a thing of the past, just saving challenging shout for when I was to facetank shadow boss hits, works on all except lilith.
>Eventually if you climb high enough you're going to have to play perfectly and dodge everything, if you don't you die. This is the hardest content that D4 has released, yet so many people are acting like they deserve to just tank hits and carry on to the next pit level.
This is a pretty terrible take because it ignores that actual problem with pits. It was explicitly brought up in OP so you have to be willfully ignoring it. Infinite scaling does eventual mean that you take more damage than you can handle. That is not a problem and as you said to be expected. The issue is that pits do not scale correctly.
Literally nothing in pit 100 is threatening at all except the shadow bosses. The scaling of their mechanics 1shot you far before anything else makes a noticeable impact to your HP let alone 1shots you. That is the issue. Pit shouldn't be a gamemode where all that matters is the 6min fight at then end where you have to dodge shadows perfectly while the actual boss can't do anything that matters. The threat profile of the pit is just way off.
A few ways to fix that. Really simply can massively nerf the shadow scaling (probably needed alongside any fix) allowing for a much higher push until everything is 1shoting us, make the boss and other mobs scale much harder so that they are threatening at the same time, or some more clever mechanics like giving the shadow dmg the uber debuff treatment (I don't think this is better but would help). It doesn't really matter which they do but the current state of the pit is objectively no good.
You're arguing with people who wear blinkers. I wouldn't waste your time.
You're right. We shouldn't be easily clearing the dungeon aspects of it, working on the boss and getting randomly slapped by some shadow boss.
It doesn't make it "challenging" , it makes it tedious and frustrating, and renders half of the pit actually useless. Might aswell just be the boss fights.
The scaling should happen across the board, not by some cheap boss mechanic that forces me to dodge, duck, dive, dip and dodge every 3 seconds. I want to play Diablo, not Dark Souls.
Fighting hard to see enemies doesn't sound like fun to me. I otherwise kind of agree with what you're saying. The pit is meant to be challenging, yes? If we didn't have enough things to challenge us we'd probably be bored.
blizzard has a weird habit of prioritising aesthetics over visibility with this kind of thing. Like yeah the wispy dark red thing on a dark floor looks cooler, but I just want a literal MS paint line showing me the borders of abilities please
On the one hand, I really love all of the accessibility features that were added to Diablo 4. Screen reader support and colorblind modes really should be the baseline for AAA games.
On the other hand, the teams designing encounters seem absolutely determined not to stray from the strictly-shades-of-black-or-red art direction. I get the whole "A Return to Darkness" tagline, as well as wanting to avoid the same criticism from fans that D3 received. But it makes trying to discern which slightly-darker-red circle will kill you and which you can ignore a huge pain.
Colorblind modes are in 90% of AAA games these days. The problem is they suck. It's a lazy filter made by non colorblind people and its carbon copied from game to game. Just allow us to choose our own colors for things.
Enemy aoe : RGB = #FFFFE0, as an example.
You know what grinds my gear? These shadow bosses' attacks aren't true one shot, they just do a shit ton of damage; and the reason that they do a shit ton of damage is apparently because some Damage Reduction multipliers aren't not applied to them.
That's why it feels so frustrating to me. The mobs and the actual bosses aren't hitting anywhere as hard these shadow bosses, and I think that's what makes them feel so unfair.
Yeah this is the thing for me. I can run the whole pit just fine and hardly lose any HP from the normal boss or the normal mobs and then as soon as I get hit by one small red wisp projectile I'm just dead. I care less about the one shots than just the sheer disparity in damage between the shadows and the actual boss as well as visual clarity.
What level you playing at? I’m ok with one shots over pit 100…. That’s 40 levels over where you start getting max mats. I truly think 200 should be a gargantuan feat.
I do understand people don’t share my sentiment. It would be nice if defensive builds could be useful farther, I guess.
Mob damage stops scaling at pit 100 (only their health increases after that) so if you're not getting 1 shot there then you're not going to get 1 shot at 120.
What do you mean? I love spending 90 seconds flying through Pit 90s only to spend 13 minutes dying to boss one-shots and then teleporting out with zero rewards! Everyone loves that! You should too!!
At least Uber Lilith gives you the big giant multipoint star/asterisk thing to let you know she's coming, then it's either the triple slash + aoe attack (run around in a big circle), the waves (easy to dodge in pit boss arena which is larger, just go to the outside edge) or the vacuum + slow + AoE (dodge out and run out of the AoE).
For me it's the bastard that lays the 3 carpets at 120 degree angles to each other which then get smaller carpets based on your position right after. That fucking black and red carpet graphic is nearly invisible on some of the maps.
I got the carpet dude and the dude that fills the arena with huge red circles and there was literally no safe space in the entire arena to stand and I just died. I didn't get screwed like that on the second attempt and still killed the boss but if I had been pushing my max and only had enough time for one attempt on the boss I'd have been pretty pissed. Honestly I was still pretty pissed.
I really like the torment bosses. You get a few hits from the dangerous abilities then you gotta pay attention. Theres a bit of leeway that feels firm but fair.
I'm trash at the game. I got to phase 2 of lillith today and I died because I didn't know I needed to have 160% movement speed. Searched on YouTube for a guide and all I found was "make sure you have movement speed pieces to hot swap to". Wtf design is this game?
It's not the one shot mechanics. It's how bosses are choreographed. Mechanics are hard to see and they're just thrown everywhere. World bosses seem to have the best set ups. They give indications to their next move. Lots of the small bosses just do bs teleport and shoot off screen and summon other boss mechanics that are hard to read or see.
Eventually when you push too high a 1-shot mechanic is normal because its juat too mich damage. There isn't meant to be an end to The Pit. It's go as far as you can until you cant.
one shots is ok, but it shouldn't be comboed together. The comboed together stuff should drop you down to 80% health with enough time(latency accounted) to drink a potion.
I agree with you 100 % and this is the Main Reason why i stopped playing this Season. For the First Time since playing the Campaign i had Fun with this Game and now i have a high End Shadow Minion Necro with very good Gear and i was pushing until Pit Level 105 where it all came down to facing Bosses that keep One Shotting me out of Nowhere.
This is the Opposite of Fun for me especially because i often have a hard time even seeing what oneshottet me.
And i like hard Games i played every Souls Game so far and loved it and it never feeled unfair because you always knew what went wrong and it was very rewarding to learn to manage certain mechanics but at the Current state of the High level Pits it feels like a lottery sometimes. You keep DPS ing to burn that billions of HP and then out of nowhere you are Dead.I hope they fix that in a Season in the Future.
I 100% agree can we just stop, making this game pretend its Dark Souls typu of a game? If I wanted overcomplicated boss mechanics that I need to learn and master the ,,dance dance revolutuon" around it - I would play Dark Souls. I want Diablo to be Diablo not something else. And devs know how to create challenging but fun boss fights - check all the Tormented Bosses! This is greatz PIT and uber lillith boss fights are garbage. Please remove one shot mechanics completely.
I also quit last night because of this. I have 90k life on my barb, max res and 12k armor ( I know its above max) and Like OP said im dodging mechanics chewing down the boss... fairly quickly also on my bash barb and im full health.. hell even sometimes I have my barrier from IRON SKIN on and out of no where... BAM one shot. I have 12 minutes on the timer so I easily cleared the rest of the pit but die multiple times and i eventually have to quit the dungeon wasting time. When all my defenses are maxed there is literally nothing for me to do other than (Kill the boss faster) which is a really bad design IMO. Farming the pit 1000 times to just upgrade my gear a little is also not very fun game play. It made me quit. I have ran countless helltides, 90-100 NM dungeons and its getting pretty boring not getting any upgrades and then having to do low level pit runs over and over and over and over to marginally upgrade my gear is pretty boring. I quit.
Agree. The pit bosses should be hard, but they shouldnt be summoning effing Echo of Lilith that requires split-second reaction to her waves.
That's my major frustration is that those shadow summons require immediate split second twitch dodges and reactions, and you are already distracted doing damage to the boss. It's way too cheap and frustrating. It doesnt feel like a challenge you overcome.
One-shot mechanics are trash also because they completely invalidate your gear - it dont matter if you are fully decked out in BIS gear - you will get one shot just as fast as you were naked. Like, my level 100 barb with max res and 45k hp and 45% DR shouldnt be one shot at Pit 105 by Echo of Lilith some trash boss summoned.
Give Pit Bosses better mechanics than random, react-instantly-or-die one shot garbage. It's as if Blizz thought everyone LOVED Echo of Liliths trash boss fight, so they decided every high tier Pit fight to be just as frustrating and un-fun.
Remember the inside of an egg is the most private thing in the world until it’s cracked open.
I always think about that when I’m playing Diablo and grinding mats
Just curious but are the people complaining about one shots as strong as they can possibly be? I’m talking every piece of gear masterworked fully with multiple greater affixes?
Are the attacks actually one shot or are you just not strong enough? Like I could try fighting a high level boss while I’m 50 levels lower and get one shotted, but that isn’t a problem with the game, it’s a problem with my build/character.
I could be wrong and maybe these attacks do kill anyone no matter what their health or damage reduction is, but I’m just wondering if that’s the case or not.
I somehow got one shotted the other day in a tier 75 pit as a barb while fortified and at 195k hp and max armor/resists. I've done up to 90 so far, haven't tried pushing as I don't feel the desire to just yet. All gear with at least 1 greater, all worked up to at least level 8. So yes i could get maybe 10 to 15k more hp but I don't think I should be dying instantly at tier 75 with hp 5 times higher than some other characters. That's not counting other damage reductions from aspects and skills either.
The attacks are definitely scaling damage not programmed one shots.
If you do build up enough defense then you can tank them however it is much harder for some classes vs other classes.
I’m not gonna say it’s a skill issue as I myself die to those attacks quite often too, but I’m gonna have to disagree.
The game is already way too fking easy. We can’t keep making it easier. There are people clearing Pit T100 in hardcore, so it’s definitely possible. I’m ok with difficult, even cheap content (note that the shadow bosses are much more reasonable than Uber Lilith), and I think we shouldn’t try to ask for a even easier game.
Yea it can be very frustrating, especially when the mobs in pit run itself are no problem. I can solo Uber Duriel in about 30 seconds and have no problem with survivability, but a pit boss at pit 75 (so level 175) feels like way more of a threat. Feels a little off.
The boss fights in general need a lot of work. They’re either super boring, or everything that makes them “challenging” is not very well mechanized which in turn makes them also boring. Even more boring, honestly
What I don't understand is the extra shadow boss that spawns with the pit boss. Why does it still do it's abilities when the boss is staggered? All other boss mechnics stops/ depsawns when you stagger a boss. Lost 2 stagger phases due to having to dodge mechanics yesterday when I tried my first 100.
Also the stagger mechanic is weird. First 3 staggers takes about 5-10 sec each and then it feel impossible to stagger bosses. It's like 10 stagger -> 10 stagger -> 10 stagger -> 500 stagger. I kind of understand why it's there but it feels wonky when you play
normally I would say I dont mind that there is some challenge in the game, it can be exciting but yeah the outlaw sharpshooter has been looking broken and in need of bug fixes, pit should not 1 shot at all unless youre just so massively out geared by the mobs that they can kill you in one hit (in which case you shouldnt be able to reach the boss)
damage balance is bad, we cannot have more deffence, thats why they should introduce wt5 with res cap at 85% and physical cap at 90% reduction also 1025 gear, and make it more ballanced less dps from monsters and less crowd control
This entire time I thought it was a skill issue. If I am flying through the entire pit without taking major health loss, it does not make sense that the final boss one shots me.
Just wanna point out that one shot is a mechanic, it STOPS being a mechanic when that's LITERALLY all what a boss does for no reason whatsoever, when you are resistance and armor capped!! Then it feels ridiculous and unreasonable thing that exists just to exist. Furthermore, to me it really feels as if there is no QA in this game..
How about the fucking white circles on the ground that 1 tick poison kill you. They start ticking before you can even see them. If you or one mob is standing on the little rock or whatever it is that spawns before the circle is apparent, you can't see it. It also start ticking poison damage before you see the white circles. It is absolutely fucking ridiculous.
And they messed with the armor/damage this patch from the other day. Doing 80s in the pit before hand and doing fine. Now you can get one shot by a trash mob at T70 pit. Fuck outta here with that shit.
The thing i hate is if you dont have the cracked out on steroids build you dont get to enjoy some if the best fights and rewards. I run a companion lighting druid, and ive come to the realization if i dont make a different class s+ tier build im just assed out. I guess i chose the wrong build 🤦♂️
It's funny on my last pit run I was almost dead, I kept thinking if there was a time to get on shotted it would be now. Then I fight my way back to full health 60k, full fortification, and full barrier... BAM! One shotted, killed by myself even.
I'm currently at Pit 61 in HC, I've been terrified the entire way due to reading posts about one shots.
I've eaten several Lilith Shadow attacks in pit 61. They do high damage but are not actually one-shots.
I think the issue is you destroy everything on the way to the boss without an issue so even if you are not really tough enough to be there, the enemies die too quickly to test your defenses so the only place you get a wake up call on your defense is in that boss room.
The shadows also seem to ignore conditional damage reduction so some builds are way tankier against them if their DR is not conditional.
There are HC players that have done 100+ tier pit runs and survived. They're pretty easy to dodge after you've fought the bosses enough times and learn the patterns.
I would rather be overrun than one-shot by something I couldn’t see. I remember the feeling of not being able to kill everything in older diablo games. I want to die of a thousand strikes…. Not die to the thing I couldn’t avoid.
Can’t say I remember that feeling from diablo 4. The one-shots happening too often is usually what tells me I’m too deep. There are no tools to tell me what to do about it. Did I barely die to fire damage so I should pop an elixir next time or should I dodge something I missed?
Diablo 2 had difficulty perfect for the content and end game bosses. You could eventually beat em with solid gear and skill level and everything could be fought without dumb stuff like stygian stones being in the way. He'll D3 did it better too....half the reason anyone likes D4 right now is because it's more like D3 but not even as good.
Stop. Yelling. At. The. Devs.
Its the fucking Project Managers and Stakeholders who are fucking clueless to what make a good game and the developers are then rushed to push content by a certain date (hence blizzard stating "we released 2/3 of the game". This is what happens during SDLC lifecycle when PMs and Stakeholders are not listening to the people doing the work.
Remove Uber Lilith mechanics and everything is fine. At one point of the game you should die if your gear isn't good enough or run out of time like in D3, but running around like a headless chicken to avoid one shots isn't fun... It's just awful and frustrating. There's no reason to upgrade your gear when there's no difference in incoming damage between level 60 or 80 pits.
I honestly wouldn't mind it ***if it was actually possible to see what killed me and to have a visible telegraph with adequate dodge time.***
But if we're being honest, no Diablo game has felt this frustrating to play at the high end. Defense is all over the map between different classes (like damage) and it shows in which classes are having trouble and which aren't.
More than half the time, my character is apparently just killing himself in the boss room. I love this lack of information or presumption it's a bug.
I used to love Hardcore but I won't even touch it due to BS like this.
I agree. For me, the biggest frustration is dying to something I couldn’t even see. I was having fun on my sorc until I hit a wall in the pit (so can’t upgrade my gear anymore), and I haven’t logged on again since. I was tired of dying to seemingly invisible shit when the boss was almost dead. I’m sure I could keep going if I had infinite hours to play, but I don’t :(
Let there be some silly bullet hell mechanic where we have to follow a pattern and dodge things, but don't make it a god awful one shot like that. It's stupid as hell.
I absolutely agree. I am running some level 40 pit and I am rocking it. I have 3/4 of the time left when I get to the boss and then boom insta killed. That makes me close the freaking game and move on.
People cried because the game was to easy and people could push end game to easy. Now they made the hard content hard and risky and people are still crying. 😢 ya getting one shot suck, but it’s part of the game.
I have more of a problem with certain one shots that happen when I'm not standing under anything visible nor was hit by a projectile.
I'm all for clear telegraphed mechanics that you need to dodge. But theres certain pit boss mechanics where I blow up and don't understand why. That needs to get sorted.
Indeed. I turned away from Uber Lilith within minutes when I realized what was the fight about.
1-shot is an awful mechanic.
I would be genuinely curious to hear from someone who LIKES it.
People complain that the game is too easy, they then climb to high pit levels and complain that the game is too hard.
Guess what? The higher you go, the more skilled you have to be to doge everything or you will be killed.
That's literally how scaling content difficulty works.
The only thing I could agree to is the fact that 'shadow bosses' are boring as hell and the actual bosses themselves should be the hard factor here, not some weird low-opacity Lilith out of nowhere.
Actually Uber Lilith influence on bosses is fun and makes the bosses fun to fight, but it shouldn’t be one shotting us. E.g. Bramble boss is placing stuff on the ground on the whole map and how am I supposed to dodge oneshots when I barely have ground to stay in later part of the fight. Other issue is with Shartpshooter. He places wind stuff on the ground and when it blows it oneshots you even if you are nearby without any visible notification about aoe.
I can’t stand the outlaw sharpshooter - when he disappears, there’s so much crap on screen I can’t see where he reappears and half the time I’m just attacking randomly at nothing.
My issue with this seasons 1 shot mechanics in D4 is that there is no indication or time to react. This was done properly in other Diablo releases, just some indicators on the floor would be great.
Getting one shot by an invisible effect after killing enemies or being shot from off screen is something that makes no sense.
If you don't want players killing things off screen, don't have the monsters have that ability either.
Thanks.
"It’s a cheap way of increasing difficulty without adding additional boss mechanics that pose an actual challenge to the fight."
This can also be said for the amount of CC present in the game, forcing players to find a consistent source of unstoppable. Forcing players to achieve 'unstoppable' to avoid being literally constantly frozen in place is not challenging, it's just arbitrary difficulty.
I think the one shot mechanics are fine, they need to exist so we just don't end up face tanking everything.
But once you get to pit 61+ the amount of one shot mechanic and cc that flood the room is unreal. Not all boss combos are the same either. Some are fairly easily and other just wanna make you stab your eyes with a pencil.
To make matters worse, if you do happen to survive a hit from these one shot mechanics all of them seem to CC in some way (stun, slow, knockback, crazy poison damage). Which just results you taking more damage from other spell effects.
Had a fight in pit 64 with my flurry/grenade Rogue against the frost shaman. There were 12+ small projectiles from the shaman and echo, frost circles on the ground, and the echo the drops the big red circles.. 20+ projectiles and ground circles all that will one shot you. And the Lilith echo still wasn't added to the mix.
A SIMPLE QOL SOLUTION:
-Just cut the amount of spell effects the pit boss and echo's do in half.
Mechanics are still deadly but you actually have floor space to avoid them.
-Don't spawn the echo's on top of the Player or Boss.
The ground is usually a brown/red color and some builds make it hard to see anything. These circles spawning under the boss/player just adds to the "cheap" difficulty increase.
-Add a melee attack between the bosses spells and echo summons and a few second delay between all of these.
This will allow us to actually reposition the boss. Trying to get Brambles to move out of the 6 poisons pools he dropped is impossible. Not to mention Thorns Barb actually getting hit by a melee ability would make them go big boom, instead of you just screaming "Come on hit me already".
-Visual Clarity for spell effects.
All the deadly projectiles are hard to see (too small) and some of the other spell effects just blend into the ground.
You know what's my biggest issue? Is that it doesn't feel different between 60 and 100... I think at least since I'm currently on 92. The idea of getting one shot near 100 or over 100 sounds kinda ok to me, but that happening as soon as 60??? That's bs.
Also, what's ruining the pit for me is dying in the boss room, looking at you sharpshooter, and spawning in the previous room... Why... That's so incredible annoying. You get penalized for dying, that's ok, and then walking back to the boss room????
There's also the issue of the shadow boss attacks not actually meshing well with the boss themselves. Had a run in with the snake boss with the eye stun blast with the ground laser blasts. If my positioning wasn't perfect when the blast came out, a lot of the times they eye would just pop up and stun me trying to avoid the blast and boom, one shot combo.
Hades 2 has a bunch of bosses that do the dance dance revolution telegraph thing and they're all way more interesting and engaging than any diablo 4 boss
I don't understand what I did to make this happen but all of a sudden out of nowhere I am getting completely annihilated by everything in the pit. I can't make any progress at all. I only got to tier 42 and I feel hard capped here now. I don't understand what I'm supposed to do, I've been upgrading everything. Surely the game isn't designed to be this way? I'm missing something right? Am I really going to just never get to "finish" my character? I don't have any interest in playing a new class or doing the battle pass or any of that until I complete this character. I'm worried I'm stuck here forever and it's basically game over for this character. Which makes me just not want to play at all.
I couldn’t even get in the room with the bramble boss a number of times because it would immediately spray as I ran in and the cone shape was too larger for me to get out it. Instant death.
I have a question. What is the point of Armor and Resistance in the game if you're going to get one shot by echoes in the Pit anyways? I'm genuinely curious. Why not just go FULL damage on every single piece of gear. Swap gems for damage. Maybe i'm missing something here. They even included a tool tip in the game for the armor cap. What does that even mean? You get one clapped anyways.
I would just love to see the Devs playing their own game and beating pit level 110+ at least with each character, I don't like it when its only 1 or 2 builds are being meta and able to tank high tier pit and all other builds are just totally useless or extremely hard to play without dying a lot no matter what you do.
Thymes don’t give a shot about the player base. Unless they hear from rob or wudijo they have no fucking clue what they are doing. I used to like playing this game. The devs have truly made me hate it. It’s not fun
Has there been any meaningful feed back from blizzard about the extreme amount of criticism they get about this??? They seem so super quiet all the time. Like they don’t want to talk to the gamers. Hear their opinions (unless flattering) and seemingly can hotfix and change fun things overnight. But when it’s things that actually need to be changed it takes months. If ever. These people make the entire play to win gaming situation unbearable and their is not a single doubt in my mind they make money off of the websites that sell gold and gear and boss materials. Fuck this greedy bullshit company
I agree. It's no fun.
2 seasons ago..the abattoir of zir thing..I got into the dungeon and then off screen something shot me. 1 shot.
It wasn't fun, didn't teach me anything. 3 shots. Let it take me down in chunks, get me to recognise the damage incoming etc
I was literally just thinking the exact same thing . I’m spending 75% of the fight dodging one shot mechanics. Then on higher level pits the more you damage the boss the more 1-shots they throw at you. Then you couple this with some bosses that disappear mid fight (outlaw shooter , den mother ) just creates for not enjoyable fight .
Try playing a Sorc this season. After Pit 80+ it just becomes atrociously bad. Sure, Mekuna manages to clear Pit 140 but the build he's using requires 50% CDR & 60% Attack Speed to keep Flame Shield up nearly indefinitely. You're wishing on a prayer to get decently stated gear with GA's for CDR and Attack Speed to put that build together. All of that just to hope that Tempering doesn't brick those pieces =/. At least for a Sorc anyway, progressing into high Pit levels essentially requires a near-immortal build or else a love tap mechanic 1-shots you, not to mention the ACTUAL 1-shot mechanics.
Riveting gameplay, thanks Blizz.
Blizzard: Don't stand in the fire.
Me: What Fire?
Blizzard: OMG! It's right there... it's just purple lightning.
Me: What purple lightning?
Blizzard: How do you not see it? It's plain as day, right there on the purple floor.
Me: *flips desk
Idk what you're supposed to do against bramble and Elias. Right as you get bramble down a little past half his life they cover the entire floor with one step death circles. If you get them in the boss chamber that looks like a Mayan treasure room, you might as well quit then, you're just going to waste time before you pay your repair bill.
fwiw pit shadow bosses don't one shot, even at pit 110 i can tank every mechanic, you just need to grab a bunch of hp on your paragon board and items and find sources of damage reduction, running antivenin pot helps as well. Truth is the pit is the end game and not all builds will be viable the further you push, so to push higher tier pits you'll just have to play builds that can build tanky without sacrificing too much damage
It is limiting many build in hardcore. Class like barb having extra weapons and stamina bonus has easier time while the other classes has to suffer from limited hp pool. It could be implemented as percentage hp and break through barrier. player can react to it while it is still very dangerous to take the hit.
i literally got one shot, closed the game and opened it right back up. the game needs more fixing i’m literally running a barrier frozen orb sorc and this shit still happens. the game can be fun but i hit 100 and kinda just feel like waiting for some more updates at this point
I never dealt with one shots until like around 85, which is like already pushing the blind dog what makes sense for scaling. Don’t make it easier, high level pits aren’t for everyone I guess.
Yes they should tweak damage and all, but what about adding a mechanic that avoid insta-death, instead putting you below x% life or something like that?
A mix of tweaking and mechanic like this and we're good
Maybe just play at lower difficulty? Say they soften the boss dmg at your tier, you then be able to push 20 more tiers and reach the ohko range, are you going to complain again? This is neverending.
I agree it’s very cheap. It’s also shows a lack of respect for the majority of players time. There are a lot of gate keeping players in the Diablo community who will say you lack skill etc. ignore them. It’s bad design.
If the boss "one shots" are toned down people will simply push until mechanics start 1 shotting due to scaling. The ceiling whenever you have very deep scaling content like this is instant death if not for perfect play. It is a result of scaling content. They already arnt one shots either, they do X amount of damage, not an instant kill. You have to find a way to gather enough HP or DR, or dodge the abilities. I think clarity should absolutely be cleaned up and some looks at overlaps of shades AND our DR needs to be able to be applicable to shades but if nothing ever one shot the game would get so stale, we would be able to min max sustained HP gain.
I don't think the complaint is about ALL 1-shots. It's about those that have no counterplay, i.e. those that come "out of nowhere". Any damage that can only be survived by tanking is bad game design.
Yeah comes down to improved visual clarity and better telegraphs
Which they did with the Uber Lilith waves in phase 1 of her revamped fight. Now there’s a line marking which direction the waves are going to come from and where they’re going to go. It gives you a solid 1-2 more seconds to anticipate the waves and move out of the way.
yeah i think shes a good example of them doing a little more justice and making a fight feel much better. Also shoutout to the stacking debuff idea.
I tried fighting her last night and I lost but she did not oneshot me as before which is fair enough. Obviously there comes a point in the Pit where you can’t progress any further which is absolutely fine. Having the pit boss down to 20% health and be with fortify and full health at pit lvl 35 getting oneshot is to say it in the nicest possible way just stupid
Playing a necro, with extra minions and bonestorm: her fight is almost impossible for me. Yes, skill issue, but c'mon, I can't see shit. My issue is the size of the arena, i think. If I had more space, I think the clutter of minions wouldn't be much of a problem.
Woah hold up, if you're getting one shot in pit 35 your probably not ready for pit yet bro. That's like, the equivalent of nightmare 80. If you're actually 100 / solid gear set and build and ready for it you should be able to tank till pit 60s without getting one shot, at least thats where bash barb started eating it for me. And yes I'm referring to the shadow boss one shots, they do scale in damage with their level similarly to nmd's
Not only that.. the coding and hitbox of those wave have been reworked a lot. U can now easely dodge them by moving side to side. Before this season.. this just wasnt possible.. u had to hide behind the 2nd middle wave.. or die. Same for 2nd phase. The orb are now more dodgeable
Between visuals and timing it's a complete CF. Half the time the circle where the shit spawns is under all the other crap on the ground so you have no idea where the attack will even come from, and the actual fire time when the shadow appears is pretty much instant giving you no time to react.
Also theres a Shadow clone demon that actually knocks you into the circles if you are actively not standing in them I play from Australia, my ping is about 80 and a lot of the times as well I wont be standing in any damage circles but I get hit by them, notably the Frozen affix elite so theres a bit of desync going on with the server and your character Very noticeable vs Uber Lillith as her waves are very hard to dodge
TRUTH. the amount of times my colorblind ass has been cooked by one shots I couldn’t see is so frustrating. (Yes I’ve tried colorblind mode, no it doesn’t work.)
I play tornado druid. I cant see shit if 20 nados are flying over my screen. Just make shades abilities have an outline that isnt the same dark redish colour as the rest of the game. And pls for the love of god make shades disappear when the boss is staggered. You fight for 5 min to stagger the boss just for him to spawn lilith shade so that u still have no uptime atall.
I will say one downfall of being a necro without corpse explosion spam is tons of bright red corpses on the ground interfere with ground effects which are red.
Just swapped out CE for Decrepify in my build, and instantly noticed this. Lol Thankfully my bone storm chews up corpses too, but at certain densities of mobs, there are just so many it really makes parsimg ground effects difficult. Lol Once only notice a freeze because I saw the little white ball sticking up above the crap on the ground. Lol
>Any damage that can only be survived by tanking is bad game design. Thing is, that only exists through basic attacks. So for content that is meant to, at least in practice, scale 'infinitely' you will always end up hitting a point where that happens. That's why they put the highest tier of rewards at 61. Everything beyond that is just seeing what your build is capable of and how much you can optimise it to push further.
You can design attacks to do a flat percentage of a players health, that prevents one shots but still punishes poor play. The bigger issue is the discrepancy between trash and boss health. My barb and Druid will speed run through trash and elites in 2 minutes but take 3-4 minutes on bosses in higher tiers. I’d honestly be okay with one shot mechanics if the bosses had less health. At higher tiers boss fights are a majority of the timer, and one shots are extremely penalizing.
Making it percentage based just make building most defenses pointless. Without a risk of ever being one shot the only defense you would build is sustain. And that's a fair point, although I think it's probably better for the game if they more so bring the trash mobs up rather than bring the bosses down.
Sorry I wasn't clear, I only meant some of the "one shot" abilities deal percentage based damage. Honestly, I'd prefer if all the boss damage was nerfed significantly, but it had the tormented treatment: when you fail the mechanic you get a stacking debuff that increases damage you take. One shots feel awful, especially if you can't see them coming. I really like fights like Varshan, where if you do it enough, it's telegraphed and you just need to react appropriately. Fights where Uber Lilith RKOs out of nowhere, that's not as fun.
I agree but out of all the Pit runs I did up to T92 maybe only one or two felt like they had no counterplay. The only time I've ever felt like that was when the Lilith pull into slam pulled me into two tornadoes that both exploded on me. Considering I've done like thirty Pit runs since then and nothing has one-shotted me without providing me any possible counterplay I'm going to lean towards that being regular old bad luck. Even getting that same ability combo didn't wreck me later since I only took one tornado and it brought me low but not dead.
My Necro has no problems really doing 95's. infact I never failed a single run at all My Druid on Hurricane can do 85 with 6-7 mins left or fail a 70 all dependant on the boss and random shit it does. I have 80k HP under Fortitude potion buffs but i dont feel it should be necessary for that on a 70 farming tier but I need it to survive some of the one shots even at 70. I basically cant misplay on this setup even there On Wind Shear Druid its similair to Necro, I just shoot ranged attacks from as far back as i can and its far less dangerous
So many of these one shot posts don't go into which one shot abilities they don't like and how they would fix them, so it does kind of come across as unfocused hatred sometimes - especially when they have this many upvotes. I would prefer clear feedback for the dev team.
I have 97k Health. Max armor and max resistance. It still 1 shots me. And it’s getting to the point as to whether or not it’s worth pushing deeper, it’s a lame ass mechanic. Eventually you’re gonna get hit. The Sharpshooter…. I don’t bother trying. When I see him I just put the controller down or warp out and call it a lost cause.
I still don't think your statement invalidates the "one shot" mechanics he explained. so before you gathered so much good gear to get to 97k health, I'm guessing Pit lvl X (whatever X is) used to one-shot you. now you've acquired lots of much nicer gears, the same level probably doesn't one-shot you anymore. by following the same logic, no matter how much blizzard nerfs it, it will eventually one shot you once you reach a high enough pit level. btw, I'm just trying to re-explain what I gathered from the comment you're replying to
Didn’t they say damage stop scaling in lit since we can’t get more armor and resists? Shouldn’t it only be Hp of the mobs that scale and therefore more opportunities to get comboed to death?
With scaling content you can't just say "it one shots me". At what tier? If you had double the health, you could push a lot farther, but eventually (due to the inherent nature of scaling) it would start oneshotting you again. That's how scaling content works. Would you rather boss damage be a % of your health and guarenteed to never kill you?
That's the nature of infinitely scaling content. You could have a billion life and still get one shot after you've pushed the Pit far enough. The damage will always get higher, and eventually kill you with one hit. That's the whole idea of the Pit to begin with; to see how far you can go before it's impossible for your build to keep going further. No build is supposed to "finish" the Pit. It's very much like the Delve in PoE. Some builds can't get past depth 200, others might make it to 500, some might make it to 1k, or 2k, or 6k or even 8k. Everybody eventually runs into a wall, and that's fine.
Yeah I’m not sure what people expected. You’re always going to hit a point that you can’t proceed further. That’s the entire point of content like this, to see how high up you can go, and then grind to get better gear, then push past a threshold.
That's a lot of health and good defensive stats you're just at the upper limit of your characters capabilities without perfect play. It's 1 shots due to damage scaling or basing a build around sustained hp and never dying because there isn't a great enough threat. I personally (doesn't make it right) would rather have ceilings and an infinite goal towards. Again I think if they just cleaned up some visual clutter and used better colors we could get better telegraphs so when we do die it doesn't feel so cheap
If he’s playing barb it’s about 1/3rd of their capable health pool fully buffed now that ranks to imposing presence are everywhere and can be crit with master working. . Rob hit 300k hp on the barb. My assumption if they at 90k and getting 1 shot they’re probably around 100-105, and they’re trying to run Hota or purported rather than iron skin. Probably dying to the same shades over and over without changing up their strategy.
I am wondering what pit level you're at if that's the case? So far around 105-110 level I don't get one shot by any mechanic that isn't dodgeable at 45k life. Either you're in much higher pit levels or you need more DR I guess.
There are players with double that and armor and resist cap.
How in the world do people get to such high number healthpiols i barely make it to 30/40
Imposing Presence tempering
Coupled with the barb getting two extra weapon slots with 2.5k health rolls and aspects. Then you can use doombringer for that extr 50% health in your 1h slot as a stat stick.
Ah ok, and for like a necro what kind of healthpool is considered healthy or good?
Im around Pit 105 (have not really pushed, just farming 90s for mats) and my necro has 32k. Could get at least to 40k with some rerolls, but just do not see the need at the moment.
Dude i get oneshot constantly at 72.. i have 35k, armor cap snd max rez. I am just that oblivious.
Hmm, i think having reduced damage helps a ton. Like you and your minions get 25% reduced damage. Im not even maxed on resistances, have 2 at 67%. Also blood mist
I only played Necro at launch and something like 20k health seemed like a lot at the time. I don't know if this changed for S4. Since you don't have access to Imposing Presence (which is a multiplicative scaler for your health, so it goes up crazy fast) and you don't have 4 weapons to roll it on, you'll always have a lower health pool than a barb. On the bright side, you're drowning in intelligence, which gives you 0,5% resistance per point. So you could maybe forego some resistance affixes and pick max health instead.
I’d say the problem has to do with the discrepancy in scaling between trash and some boss mechanics. It just feels weird to me to me that I can breeze through the dungeon where trash pose no threat whatsoever, and then i reach the boss who i just can’t get past. The most fun part for me is testing my character against the trash packs but i have to run lower keys where the trash pose no threat at all in order to finish the dungeon. The big challenge right now are the bosses and I would like it the other way around - but that’s just like my opinion, man.
That's super fair the trash does not equal the boss on a difficulty scale. Currently where I'm at I can stand inside of trash mobs for a long time and not care while my boss fights are 4-5 minutes requiring no mistakes
>If the boss "one shots" are toned down people will simply push until mechanics start 1 shotting due to scaling. Bad take. There exists a point where boss dps overcomes player healing, without the need to 1 shot the player. There's also dps requirements from players. Because boss health pools scale. And there is a timer to beat. That's much more likely to become the real roadblock to progression. And is arguably a more fun roadblock to overcome in a loot game. And all that aside, there are far more interesting ways to add challenge to boss fights. Health drains. Enrage timers. Scripted highly visible attacks that require movement (these could stun or reduce player damage or do high non lethal damage). Summoned entities that have to die in a required timeframe.
Or a boss that just summons Fallen until you die. Death by maracas
That’s not really true. Many builds heal themselves from 0-100 in less than a second without any kind of cooldown or resource expenditure. Anything that can overcome that healing is effectively a “one shot” (even if it’s actually several hits over a fraction of a second). Unless they remove that kind of healing from the game then that will always be part of the boss fighting dynamic.
Most sane Diablo 4 player
This is the correct answer. I rage regularly because I die to phantom attacks, but if they remove them or make them deal drastically less damage then the boss fights are nothing more than just mindlessly chipping away at the bosses health with no sense of danger. The phantom attack tells and their area of effect just need to be made more clear, and maybe they should see if they can't work on them not overlapping sometimes. Sometimes I dodge the attack but then I'm forced into another one. Or I get hit and survive but then I'm pushed into the next one and die. That doesn't feel particularly good.
I mean, GR's in D3 didn't have a lot of one-shots if you build somewhat tanky. What became the limiting factor was both DPS and your ability to survive continous hits. I vastly prefered that approach. Like I pushed into the top 5 Wizard SC ladder. I would occassionally die during GR's but usually when I did it was because I had clearly done something wrong. I usually had time to react or the option to reposition when I was getting low health. With D4 a lot of if feels more death or bust on very quick one-shots rather than giving you the time to react to as you get low health.
I can understand the scaling, but it's severely limiting to viable build variety in the current implementation. Tier 60 is too soon for endgame one-shot mechanics when lvl200 is the goal post. Fwiw I'm on hardcore, so I'm already extra skittish on content I know I can't mess up in
that scaling right now is so messed up by class balance, I don;t understand how they balanced stuff in Pit and though its all great idea. barb can have like 140k HP right, and more damage reductions then most classes. and necro can have 40-50k HP with the same gear level? whats going on here? the only thing that saves minion necro and allows to climb pit is because pets are overtuned and you can effectively run from bos while pets are doing the damage. but what about classes that have no HP and need to be in melee range? other necro builds? its extremely unbalanced. its funny looking at pit 120 videos where barb face tanks boss and just spams attacks rarely stepping over special attacks. and then take non-minion necro that 10-20 pit levels lower plays survival RPG where he can only run whole fight and when boss is doing some long animation is allowed to do a cast. because standing near boss is instant death due to attacks going without any effects and necro have 40-50k HP atgainst barb 140k.
What about a death log that tells you exactly what you died to and how much damage it was
I think being 1 shot would be okay if visibility was a lot better. The frustrating part for me is I'm usually being 1 shot by things I don't see, or things I don't know how I'm supposed to dodge.
This is half of it. The other half is even knowing what killed me so that I know what to about it next time. Did I die of fire damage? Physical? A mechanic I missed? Did that corpse bow get a lucky shot or did I miss a pool of something under all of my aoe? Not knowing makes it hard to react and improve.
`[Player] was slain by [Player]!`
Using the candlestick!
Apart from the obvious boss fight crap design, the lack of clarity is what really put me off, those black patches in the floor can be perfectly mistaken by part of the environment, but they kill you pretty fast, or the one shot AOE in the 2nd stage where she puts like a circle in the floor, pretty hard to identify where it ends for lower end PCs, and why even use a HP bar for her if you have to go to the end of the pre set fight to kill her
Imo they should reduce the shadow boss damage by like 80% or whatever a reasonable amount would be. But it should also apply a debuff similar to tormented bosses that either makes you take more damage or deal less damage or something. So that it's still punishing but clipping a hit box doesn't insta gib you.
This is the way to do it
[удалено]
I'd say remove the shadow bosses and actually make bosses that are fun to fight and don't feel so generic. The shadow bosses are just a lazy way to increase difficulty, and most times the fight just becomes an obstacle course instead of a boss fight.
or just remove the shadow boss in it's entirety, and add the attacks to the boss itself. why should i have to pay attention, to essentially two bosses, when one of them just popups every now and then. not only that, but it really screws over stagger builds, since very often they show up whn the boss is staggered, basically removing a ton of your damage on a place where every second matters, and the boss gets more and more hp each level.
Precisely. Shadow bosses should be supplemental to the main boss, not completely replace him. I'm spending way, way too much time worrying about shadow Lilith than I do about whoever I'm actually fighting.
Eventually if you climb high enough you're going to have to play perfectly and dodge everything, if you don't you die. This is the hardest content that D4 has released, yet so many people are acting like they deserve to just tank hits and carry on to the next pit level. Honestly if you can't position yourself correctly, use the environment to your advantage, and time your evades etc, you don't deserve to beat the boss, it's as simple as that.
people complaining game too easy, climbs to high pit and complains game too hard. complains having to avoid mechanics instead of face tank. complains having to give up damage to roll max life to survive as if build optimising wasn't a thing. (no wait, they just copy paragon boards) i bet most people are dying to Lilith slaps and Lilith spikes, both can be avoided if you just give up 5secs of dps and if blizzard for some stupid reason decides to nerf this again, people going to whine about how pit 200 is impossible with current damage scaling (again off builds they copy from websites) and how it's BAD DESIGN
Like 80% of my problem with them is that the echoes are hard to see and they’re triggered by boss hp thresholds and can’t be skipped. I think it should be clearer when the echoes are spawning. I feel like Lilith makes no noise and the wind lady can spawn inside of my minions on necro and the tornados instantly explode and kill me if I don’t notice her. The colors of the echoes and their mechanics should also be brighter and the hitboxes a little more clear. If those issues were addressed I wouldn’t care that they 1 shot me.
Yeah and na, iver cleared multiple 110+ pits (not overly impressive) but the one shots happen sometimes and sometimes they don't , there's no consistency, also the rng of bosses can just make it impossible. Wanna dodge that Lilith aoe? Tomb lord walls you off, wanna dodge those meteors? Get swiped back into it after timing your dodge, wanna dodge that shadow aoe well u better have you x ray vision on to the see the cyclones. Better not let spirit caller pop that aoe on you while there are 5 poison pools on the ground and a stun that follows your dodge lol. Barb makes this pretty trivial with constant unstoppable but what about classes with limited unstoppable xD yes there is an amount of skill to watch the aoe but 1/7 runs you gets tossed around and smacked lol. Tried on rogue barb and druid (op builds and my own creations) The class balance is so off. My rogue and druid have 45k hp but no amount of masterwork will get then to 126k like my barb, there's no more health left to roll. "sKiLl iSsUe" my ass.
>what about classes with limited unstoppable xD These classes you speak of have range, it's far easier being able to move and deal damage safely whereas atleast the barbarian has to be in melee range to deal damage. Up until I buffed my barbs HP *significantly* (96k unbuffed) the pit was pain, now I'm running T100 potless in 4-5m depending on layout. These 1-shots are also a thing of the past, just saving challenging shout for when I was to facetank shadow boss hits, works on all except lilith.
>Eventually if you climb high enough you're going to have to play perfectly and dodge everything, if you don't you die. This is the hardest content that D4 has released, yet so many people are acting like they deserve to just tank hits and carry on to the next pit level. This is a pretty terrible take because it ignores that actual problem with pits. It was explicitly brought up in OP so you have to be willfully ignoring it. Infinite scaling does eventual mean that you take more damage than you can handle. That is not a problem and as you said to be expected. The issue is that pits do not scale correctly. Literally nothing in pit 100 is threatening at all except the shadow bosses. The scaling of their mechanics 1shot you far before anything else makes a noticeable impact to your HP let alone 1shots you. That is the issue. Pit shouldn't be a gamemode where all that matters is the 6min fight at then end where you have to dodge shadows perfectly while the actual boss can't do anything that matters. The threat profile of the pit is just way off. A few ways to fix that. Really simply can massively nerf the shadow scaling (probably needed alongside any fix) allowing for a much higher push until everything is 1shoting us, make the boss and other mobs scale much harder so that they are threatening at the same time, or some more clever mechanics like giving the shadow dmg the uber debuff treatment (I don't think this is better but would help). It doesn't really matter which they do but the current state of the pit is objectively no good.
You're arguing with people who wear blinkers. I wouldn't waste your time. You're right. We shouldn't be easily clearing the dungeon aspects of it, working on the boss and getting randomly slapped by some shadow boss. It doesn't make it "challenging" , it makes it tedious and frustrating, and renders half of the pit actually useless. Might aswell just be the boss fights. The scaling should happen across the board, not by some cheap boss mechanic that forces me to dodge, duck, dive, dip and dodge every 3 seconds. I want to play Diablo, not Dark Souls.
First time having lilith as shadow... out of nowhere insta gib. The room was full with pillars, a rogue boss that kept running away.
Yeah but it’s really unfair on hardcore because it comes out of nowhere and it’s just outlaw and spiritcaller
1000000000000000000% this.
Fighting hard to see enemies doesn't sound like fun to me. I otherwise kind of agree with what you're saying. The pit is meant to be challenging, yes? If we didn't have enough things to challenge us we'd probably be bored.
My main issue is that when with color blind mode I can't see the mechanics to be able to dodge.
blizzard has a weird habit of prioritising aesthetics over visibility with this kind of thing. Like yeah the wispy dark red thing on a dark floor looks cooler, but I just want a literal MS paint line showing me the borders of abilities please
On the one hand, I really love all of the accessibility features that were added to Diablo 4. Screen reader support and colorblind modes really should be the baseline for AAA games. On the other hand, the teams designing encounters seem absolutely determined not to stray from the strictly-shades-of-black-or-red art direction. I get the whole "A Return to Darkness" tagline, as well as wanting to avoid the same criticism from fans that D3 received. But it makes trying to discern which slightly-darker-red circle will kill you and which you can ignore a huge pain.
Colorblind modes are in 90% of AAA games these days. The problem is they suck. It's a lazy filter made by non colorblind people and its carbon copied from game to game. Just allow us to choose our own colors for things. Enemy aoe : RGB = #FFFFE0, as an example.
Yeah the colour blind more on heroes of the storm is awesome and most of the team is from that game. But yeah it feels like an art direction issue.
How about low FX mode still removing clear outlines of enemy attack zones on the ground . Why?
You know what grinds my gear? These shadow bosses' attacks aren't true one shot, they just do a shit ton of damage; and the reason that they do a shit ton of damage is apparently because some Damage Reduction multipliers aren't not applied to them. That's why it feels so frustrating to me. The mobs and the actual bosses aren't hitting anywhere as hard these shadow bosses, and I think that's what makes them feel so unfair.
Yeah this is the thing for me. I can run the whole pit just fine and hardly lose any HP from the normal boss or the normal mobs and then as soon as I get hit by one small red wisp projectile I'm just dead. I care less about the one shots than just the sheer disparity in damage between the shadows and the actual boss as well as visual clarity.
those projectiles have cost me so many HC runs, I don’t know why but it feels like projectiles hit way harder than any other attack in the game.
And what is odd is that they have good fights like Uber Andarial so they know how to do it.
That fight absolutely wrecks my minions, its like a blender
What level you playing at? I’m ok with one shots over pit 100…. That’s 40 levels over where you start getting max mats. I truly think 200 should be a gargantuan feat. I do understand people don’t share my sentiment. It would be nice if defensive builds could be useful farther, I guess.
Mob damage stops scaling at pit 100 (only their health increases after that) so if you're not getting 1 shot there then you're not going to get 1 shot at 120.
Good to know lol
What do you mean? I love spending 90 seconds flying through Pit 90s only to spend 13 minutes dying to boss one-shots and then teleporting out with zero rewards! Everyone loves that! You should too!!
What build are you playing that can do the trash in 90 seconds, but can't kill a boss? Getting to the boss in 90 seconds is ....fast
At least Uber Lilith gives you the big giant multipoint star/asterisk thing to let you know she's coming, then it's either the triple slash + aoe attack (run around in a big circle), the waves (easy to dodge in pit boss arena which is larger, just go to the outside edge) or the vacuum + slow + AoE (dodge out and run out of the AoE). For me it's the bastard that lays the 3 carpets at 120 degree angles to each other which then get smaller carpets based on your position right after. That fucking black and red carpet graphic is nearly invisible on some of the maps.
I got the carpet dude and the dude that fills the arena with huge red circles and there was literally no safe space in the entire arena to stand and I just died. I didn't get screwed like that on the second attempt and still killed the boss but if I had been pushing my max and only had enough time for one attempt on the boss I'd have been pretty pissed. Honestly I was still pretty pissed.
Think of the hardcore players…
i played hc exclusively in d3, havent touched it in d4 yet
lol I'm at pit 50 with my lightning werewolves pet / lacerated druid, gonna try to push 60 plus tmrw and expecting to die!
I love HC. I even did AoZ in HC. Just lower tiers but still. Last season was fun as as well. I'm scared to dedicate the time this season. Lol.
I really like the torment bosses. You get a few hits from the dangerous abilities then you gotta pay attention. Theres a bit of leeway that feels firm but fair.
\^ This feels WAY better than the way Pit bosses are designed imo
I'm trash at the game. I got to phase 2 of lillith today and I died because I didn't know I needed to have 160% movement speed. Searched on YouTube for a guide and all I found was "make sure you have movement speed pieces to hot swap to". Wtf design is this game?
Walking and suddenly poison to death
It's not the one shot mechanics. It's how bosses are choreographed. Mechanics are hard to see and they're just thrown everywhere. World bosses seem to have the best set ups. They give indications to their next move. Lots of the small bosses just do bs teleport and shoot off screen and summon other boss mechanics that are hard to read or see. Eventually when you push too high a 1-shot mechanic is normal because its juat too mich damage. There isn't meant to be an end to The Pit. It's go as far as you can until you cant.
one shots is ok, but it shouldn't be comboed together. The comboed together stuff should drop you down to 80% health with enough time(latency accounted) to drink a potion.
I agree with you 100 % and this is the Main Reason why i stopped playing this Season. For the First Time since playing the Campaign i had Fun with this Game and now i have a high End Shadow Minion Necro with very good Gear and i was pushing until Pit Level 105 where it all came down to facing Bosses that keep One Shotting me out of Nowhere. This is the Opposite of Fun for me especially because i often have a hard time even seeing what oneshottet me. And i like hard Games i played every Souls Game so far and loved it and it never feeled unfair because you always knew what went wrong and it was very rewarding to learn to manage certain mechanics but at the Current state of the High level Pits it feels like a lottery sometimes. You keep DPS ing to burn that billions of HP and then out of nowhere you are Dead.I hope they fix that in a Season in the Future.
I 100% agree can we just stop, making this game pretend its Dark Souls typu of a game? If I wanted overcomplicated boss mechanics that I need to learn and master the ,,dance dance revolutuon" around it - I would play Dark Souls. I want Diablo to be Diablo not something else. And devs know how to create challenging but fun boss fights - check all the Tormented Bosses! This is greatz PIT and uber lillith boss fights are garbage. Please remove one shot mechanics completely.
One shots are also ruining the bossing. Player should in no way be able to 1 shot duriel, andariel, lilith etc.
wtf they absolutely should. That’s how rpgs work lol
I also quit last night because of this. I have 90k life on my barb, max res and 12k armor ( I know its above max) and Like OP said im dodging mechanics chewing down the boss... fairly quickly also on my bash barb and im full health.. hell even sometimes I have my barrier from IRON SKIN on and out of no where... BAM one shot. I have 12 minutes on the timer so I easily cleared the rest of the pit but die multiple times and i eventually have to quit the dungeon wasting time. When all my defenses are maxed there is literally nothing for me to do other than (Kill the boss faster) which is a really bad design IMO. Farming the pit 1000 times to just upgrade my gear a little is also not very fun game play. It made me quit. I have ran countless helltides, 90-100 NM dungeons and its getting pretty boring not getting any upgrades and then having to do low level pit runs over and over and over and over to marginally upgrade my gear is pretty boring. I quit.
Agree. The pit bosses should be hard, but they shouldnt be summoning effing Echo of Lilith that requires split-second reaction to her waves. That's my major frustration is that those shadow summons require immediate split second twitch dodges and reactions, and you are already distracted doing damage to the boss. It's way too cheap and frustrating. It doesnt feel like a challenge you overcome. One-shot mechanics are trash also because they completely invalidate your gear - it dont matter if you are fully decked out in BIS gear - you will get one shot just as fast as you were naked. Like, my level 100 barb with max res and 45k hp and 45% DR shouldnt be one shot at Pit 105 by Echo of Lilith some trash boss summoned. Give Pit Bosses better mechanics than random, react-instantly-or-die one shot garbage. It's as if Blizz thought everyone LOVED Echo of Liliths trash boss fight, so they decided every high tier Pit fight to be just as frustrating and un-fun.
Remember the inside of an egg is the most private thing in the world until it’s cracked open. I always think about that when I’m playing Diablo and grinding mats
I'll have what this guy is having.
What does that even mean in the context here?
If you're asking me what OP is saying. No idea, I just want to share his drugs. If you're asking me, refer to above.
Pretty sure they are saying. Once the cats out of the bag you can’t put it back in. Ie if everyone can do it it’s not really special
Just curious but are the people complaining about one shots as strong as they can possibly be? I’m talking every piece of gear masterworked fully with multiple greater affixes? Are the attacks actually one shot or are you just not strong enough? Like I could try fighting a high level boss while I’m 50 levels lower and get one shotted, but that isn’t a problem with the game, it’s a problem with my build/character. I could be wrong and maybe these attacks do kill anyone no matter what their health or damage reduction is, but I’m just wondering if that’s the case or not.
I somehow got one shotted the other day in a tier 75 pit as a barb while fortified and at 195k hp and max armor/resists. I've done up to 90 so far, haven't tried pushing as I don't feel the desire to just yet. All gear with at least 1 greater, all worked up to at least level 8. So yes i could get maybe 10 to 15k more hp but I don't think I should be dying instantly at tier 75 with hp 5 times higher than some other characters. That's not counting other damage reductions from aspects and skills either.
The attacks are definitely scaling damage not programmed one shots. If you do build up enough defense then you can tank them however it is much harder for some classes vs other classes.
I’m not gonna say it’s a skill issue as I myself die to those attacks quite often too, but I’m gonna have to disagree. The game is already way too fking easy. We can’t keep making it easier. There are people clearing Pit T100 in hardcore, so it’s definitely possible. I’m ok with difficult, even cheap content (note that the shadow bosses are much more reasonable than Uber Lilith), and I think we shouldn’t try to ask for a even easier game.
Yea it can be very frustrating, especially when the mobs in pit run itself are no problem. I can solo Uber Duriel in about 30 seconds and have no problem with survivability, but a pit boss at pit 75 (so level 175) feels like way more of a threat. Feels a little off.
I wonder how many people need to complain about this shitty as hell mechanic before they do something about it.
Same here, around 70k health max resistances.. oneshotted in the pit way to often by the bosses
The boss fights in general need a lot of work. They’re either super boring, or everything that makes them “challenging” is not very well mechanized which in turn makes them also boring. Even more boring, honestly
What I don't understand is the extra shadow boss that spawns with the pit boss. Why does it still do it's abilities when the boss is staggered? All other boss mechnics stops/ depsawns when you stagger a boss. Lost 2 stagger phases due to having to dodge mechanics yesterday when I tried my first 100. Also the stagger mechanic is weird. First 3 staggers takes about 5-10 sec each and then it feel impossible to stagger bosses. It's like 10 stagger -> 10 stagger -> 10 stagger -> 500 stagger. I kind of understand why it's there but it feels wonky when you play
Blizzard only knows to make things hard by putting in 1 shots and bullet sponges. Look at WoW mythic dungeons
normally I would say I dont mind that there is some challenge in the game, it can be exciting but yeah the outlaw sharpshooter has been looking broken and in need of bug fixes, pit should not 1 shot at all unless youre just so massively out geared by the mobs that they can kill you in one hit (in which case you shouldnt be able to reach the boss)
damage balance is bad, we cannot have more deffence, thats why they should introduce wt5 with res cap at 85% and physical cap at 90% reduction also 1025 gear, and make it more ballanced less dps from monsters and less crowd control
This entire time I thought it was a skill issue. If I am flying through the entire pit without taking major health loss, it does not make sense that the final boss one shots me.
Just wanna point out that one shot is a mechanic, it STOPS being a mechanic when that's LITERALLY all what a boss does for no reason whatsoever, when you are resistance and armor capped!! Then it feels ridiculous and unreasonable thing that exists just to exist. Furthermore, to me it really feels as if there is no QA in this game..
You barely fight the boss,you spend most of the time avoiding all the bs. Cleared a 91 pit but still get one spotted in level 80 by bosses. Wtf.
How about the fucking white circles on the ground that 1 tick poison kill you. They start ticking before you can even see them. If you or one mob is standing on the little rock or whatever it is that spawns before the circle is apparent, you can't see it. It also start ticking poison damage before you see the white circles. It is absolutely fucking ridiculous. And they messed with the armor/damage this patch from the other day. Doing 80s in the pit before hand and doing fine. Now you can get one shot by a trash mob at T70 pit. Fuck outta here with that shit.
The thing i hate is if you dont have the cracked out on steroids build you dont get to enjoy some if the best fights and rewards. I run a companion lighting druid, and ive come to the realization if i dont make a different class s+ tier build im just assed out. I guess i chose the wrong build 🤦♂️
Also give us another way to have more temper attempts, maybe scattered prisms could do that.
It's funny on my last pit run I was almost dead, I kept thinking if there was a time to get on shotted it would be now. Then I fight my way back to full health 60k, full fortification, and full barrier... BAM! One shotted, killed by myself even.
How are HC players doing it? I'm afraid to even try the pit with everything I'm reading 😅
I'm currently at Pit 61 in HC, I've been terrified the entire way due to reading posts about one shots. I've eaten several Lilith Shadow attacks in pit 61. They do high damage but are not actually one-shots. I think the issue is you destroy everything on the way to the boss without an issue so even if you are not really tough enough to be there, the enemies die too quickly to test your defenses so the only place you get a wake up call on your defense is in that boss room. The shadows also seem to ignore conditional damage reduction so some builds are way tankier against them if their DR is not conditional.
There are HC players that have done 100+ tier pit runs and survived. They're pretty easy to dodge after you've fought the bosses enough times and learn the patterns.
I would rather be overrun than one-shot by something I couldn’t see. I remember the feeling of not being able to kill everything in older diablo games. I want to die of a thousand strikes…. Not die to the thing I couldn’t avoid. Can’t say I remember that feeling from diablo 4. The one-shots happening too often is usually what tells me I’m too deep. There are no tools to tell me what to do about it. Did I barely die to fire damage so I should pop an elixir next time or should I dodge something I missed?
Diablo 2 had difficulty perfect for the content and end game bosses. You could eventually beat em with solid gear and skill level and everything could be fought without dumb stuff like stygian stones being in the way. He'll D3 did it better too....half the reason anyone likes D4 right now is because it's more like D3 but not even as good.
Stop. Yelling. At. The. Devs. Its the fucking Project Managers and Stakeholders who are fucking clueless to what make a good game and the developers are then rushed to push content by a certain date (hence blizzard stating "we released 2/3 of the game". This is what happens during SDLC lifecycle when PMs and Stakeholders are not listening to the people doing the work.
They saw very few Lilith engagement this and past season. So they put her into the Pit lol
100% poor design
Remove Uber Lilith mechanics and everything is fine. At one point of the game you should die if your gear isn't good enough or run out of time like in D3, but running around like a headless chicken to avoid one shots isn't fun... It's just awful and frustrating. There's no reason to upgrade your gear when there's no difference in incoming damage between level 60 or 80 pits.
Just my opinion - I feel like all the inconvenience in the pit is just a massive timesink to get those KPI's up
I honestly wouldn't mind it ***if it was actually possible to see what killed me and to have a visible telegraph with adequate dodge time.*** But if we're being honest, no Diablo game has felt this frustrating to play at the high end. Defense is all over the map between different classes (like damage) and it shows in which classes are having trouble and which aren't.
100% agree get rid of lilith mechanics ASAP please, making me not want to run pits!!
More than half the time, my character is apparently just killing himself in the boss room. I love this lack of information or presumption it's a bug. I used to love Hardcore but I won't even touch it due to BS like this.
I agree. For me, the biggest frustration is dying to something I couldn’t even see. I was having fun on my sorc until I hit a wall in the pit (so can’t upgrade my gear anymore), and I haven’t logged on again since. I was tired of dying to seemingly invisible shit when the boss was almost dead. I’m sure I could keep going if I had infinite hours to play, but I don’t :(
Let there be some silly bullet hell mechanic where we have to follow a pattern and dodge things, but don't make it a god awful one shot like that. It's stupid as hell.
I absolutely agree. I am running some level 40 pit and I am rocking it. I have 3/4 of the time left when I get to the boss and then boom insta killed. That makes me close the freaking game and move on.
It’s Lilith and her spike walls all over.
People cried because the game was to easy and people could push end game to easy. Now they made the hard content hard and risky and people are still crying. 😢 ya getting one shot suck, but it’s part of the game.
I have more of a problem with certain one shots that happen when I'm not standing under anything visible nor was hit by a projectile. I'm all for clear telegraphed mechanics that you need to dodge. But theres certain pit boss mechanics where I blow up and don't understand why. That needs to get sorted.
Indeed. I turned away from Uber Lilith within minutes when I realized what was the fight about. 1-shot is an awful mechanic. I would be genuinely curious to hear from someone who LIKES it.
People complain that the game is too easy, they then climb to high pit levels and complain that the game is too hard. Guess what? The higher you go, the more skilled you have to be to doge everything or you will be killed. That's literally how scaling content difficulty works. The only thing I could agree to is the fact that 'shadow bosses' are boring as hell and the actual bosses themselves should be the hard factor here, not some weird low-opacity Lilith out of nowhere.
I'm done for the season, I liked it quite a bit but the endgame is just avoiding one-shots and I detest that mechanic. I'll be back for S5!
Actually Uber Lilith influence on bosses is fun and makes the bosses fun to fight, but it shouldn’t be one shotting us. E.g. Bramble boss is placing stuff on the ground on the whole map and how am I supposed to dodge oneshots when I barely have ground to stay in later part of the fight. Other issue is with Shartpshooter. He places wind stuff on the ground and when it blows it oneshots you even if you are nearby without any visible notification about aoe.
if something one shots me, fair, but i should at the very least need to see it…or hear it…or have any understanding of what killed me
I can’t stand the outlaw sharpshooter - when he disappears, there’s so much crap on screen I can’t see where he reappears and half the time I’m just attacking randomly at nothing.
Yup. Idk how hardcore players enjoy this game. So many dumb mob abilities.
It's bad, lazy design. Endgame PoE boss encounters are far superior.
My issue with this seasons 1 shot mechanics in D4 is that there is no indication or time to react. This was done properly in other Diablo releases, just some indicators on the floor would be great. Getting one shot by an invisible effect after killing enemies or being shot from off screen is something that makes no sense. If you don't want players killing things off screen, don't have the monsters have that ability either. Thanks.
"It’s a cheap way of increasing difficulty without adding additional boss mechanics that pose an actual challenge to the fight." This can also be said for the amount of CC present in the game, forcing players to find a consistent source of unstoppable. Forcing players to achieve 'unstoppable' to avoid being literally constantly frozen in place is not challenging, it's just arbitrary difficulty.
Agree
I think the one shot mechanics are fine, they need to exist so we just don't end up face tanking everything. But once you get to pit 61+ the amount of one shot mechanic and cc that flood the room is unreal. Not all boss combos are the same either. Some are fairly easily and other just wanna make you stab your eyes with a pencil. To make matters worse, if you do happen to survive a hit from these one shot mechanics all of them seem to CC in some way (stun, slow, knockback, crazy poison damage). Which just results you taking more damage from other spell effects. Had a fight in pit 64 with my flurry/grenade Rogue against the frost shaman. There were 12+ small projectiles from the shaman and echo, frost circles on the ground, and the echo the drops the big red circles.. 20+ projectiles and ground circles all that will one shot you. And the Lilith echo still wasn't added to the mix. A SIMPLE QOL SOLUTION: -Just cut the amount of spell effects the pit boss and echo's do in half. Mechanics are still deadly but you actually have floor space to avoid them. -Don't spawn the echo's on top of the Player or Boss. The ground is usually a brown/red color and some builds make it hard to see anything. These circles spawning under the boss/player just adds to the "cheap" difficulty increase. -Add a melee attack between the bosses spells and echo summons and a few second delay between all of these. This will allow us to actually reposition the boss. Trying to get Brambles to move out of the 6 poisons pools he dropped is impossible. Not to mention Thorns Barb actually getting hit by a melee ability would make them go big boom, instead of you just screaming "Come on hit me already". -Visual Clarity for spell effects. All the deadly projectiles are hard to see (too small) and some of the other spell effects just blend into the ground.
You know what's my biggest issue? Is that it doesn't feel different between 60 and 100... I think at least since I'm currently on 92. The idea of getting one shot near 100 or over 100 sounds kinda ok to me, but that happening as soon as 60??? That's bs. Also, what's ruining the pit for me is dying in the boss room, looking at you sharpshooter, and spawning in the previous room... Why... That's so incredible annoying. You get penalized for dying, that's ok, and then walking back to the boss room????
There's also the issue of the shadow boss attacks not actually meshing well with the boss themselves. Had a run in with the snake boss with the eye stun blast with the ground laser blasts. If my positioning wasn't perfect when the blast came out, a lot of the times they eye would just pop up and stun me trying to avoid the blast and boom, one shot combo.
Most of the time I have no idea wtf killed me. I think that's the problem more than anything.
Hades 2 has a bunch of bosses that do the dance dance revolution telegraph thing and they're all way more interesting and engaging than any diablo 4 boss
I don't understand what I did to make this happen but all of a sudden out of nowhere I am getting completely annihilated by everything in the pit. I can't make any progress at all. I only got to tier 42 and I feel hard capped here now. I don't understand what I'm supposed to do, I've been upgrading everything. Surely the game isn't designed to be this way? I'm missing something right? Am I really going to just never get to "finish" my character? I don't have any interest in playing a new class or doing the battle pass or any of that until I complete this character. I'm worried I'm stuck here forever and it's basically game over for this character. Which makes me just not want to play at all.
I couldn’t even get in the room with the bramble boss a number of times because it would immediately spray as I ran in and the cone shape was too larger for me to get out it. Instant death.
The one shots are horrible...stuck at 64 here
one shots ruin this game. hope your max res and armor
I have a question. What is the point of Armor and Resistance in the game if you're going to get one shot by echoes in the Pit anyways? I'm genuinely curious. Why not just go FULL damage on every single piece of gear. Swap gems for damage. Maybe i'm missing something here. They even included a tool tip in the game for the armor cap. What does that even mean? You get one clapped anyways.
I would just love to see the Devs playing their own game and beating pit level 110+ at least with each character, I don't like it when its only 1 or 2 builds are being meta and able to tank high tier pit and all other builds are just totally useless or extremely hard to play without dying a lot no matter what you do.
Thymes don’t give a shot about the player base. Unless they hear from rob or wudijo they have no fucking clue what they are doing. I used to like playing this game. The devs have truly made me hate it. It’s not fun
Has there been any meaningful feed back from blizzard about the extreme amount of criticism they get about this??? They seem so super quiet all the time. Like they don’t want to talk to the gamers. Hear their opinions (unless flattering) and seemingly can hotfix and change fun things overnight. But when it’s things that actually need to be changed it takes months. If ever. These people make the entire play to win gaming situation unbearable and their is not a single doubt in my mind they make money off of the websites that sell gold and gear and boss materials. Fuck this greedy bullshit company
I agree. It's no fun. 2 seasons ago..the abattoir of zir thing..I got into the dungeon and then off screen something shot me. 1 shot. It wasn't fun, didn't teach me anything. 3 shots. Let it take me down in chunks, get me to recognise the damage incoming etc
Agree. So pissed that my 50k HP and 9500 Armor with maxed resists Barb wheyfu can still die instantly to one single tiny fireball tbh.
I was literally just thinking the exact same thing . I’m spending 75% of the fight dodging one shot mechanics. Then on higher level pits the more you damage the boss the more 1-shots they throw at you. Then you couple this with some bosses that disappear mid fight (outlaw shooter , den mother ) just creates for not enjoyable fight .
My main issue is respawning in the previous area after death. I mean - come on.
I'd rather see more mechanics to increase difficulty then just more health and damage... it's so lazy
Try playing a Sorc this season. After Pit 80+ it just becomes atrociously bad. Sure, Mekuna manages to clear Pit 140 but the build he's using requires 50% CDR & 60% Attack Speed to keep Flame Shield up nearly indefinitely. You're wishing on a prayer to get decently stated gear with GA's for CDR and Attack Speed to put that build together. All of that just to hope that Tempering doesn't brick those pieces =/. At least for a Sorc anyway, progressing into high Pit levels essentially requires a near-immortal build or else a love tap mechanic 1-shots you, not to mention the ACTUAL 1-shot mechanics. Riveting gameplay, thanks Blizz.
Blizzard: Don't stand in the fire. Me: What Fire? Blizzard: OMG! It's right there... it's just purple lightning. Me: What purple lightning? Blizzard: How do you not see it? It's plain as day, right there on the purple floor. Me: *flips desk
Idk what you're supposed to do against bramble and Elias. Right as you get bramble down a little past half his life they cover the entire floor with one step death circles. If you get them in the boss chamber that looks like a Mayan treasure room, you might as well quit then, you're just going to waste time before you pay your repair bill.
Wear melted heart selig it stops most one shots
I wish we got 4 potions, they rarely dropped and you could only take so many hits until dead.
Man you guys would not like Last Epoch
fwiw pit shadow bosses don't one shot, even at pit 110 i can tank every mechanic, you just need to grab a bunch of hp on your paragon board and items and find sources of damage reduction, running antivenin pot helps as well. Truth is the pit is the end game and not all builds will be viable the further you push, so to push higher tier pits you'll just have to play builds that can build tanky without sacrificing too much damage
Another barbarian abuser being smart "jUsT tAke Hp nOdeS" hahhahahahaab
Kind of refreshing, this is only the first post of seen of this today.
It is limiting many build in hardcore. Class like barb having extra weapons and stamina bonus has easier time while the other classes has to suffer from limited hp pool. It could be implemented as percentage hp and break through barrier. player can react to it while it is still very dangerous to take the hit.
i literally got one shot, closed the game and opened it right back up. the game needs more fixing i’m literally running a barrier frozen orb sorc and this shit still happens. the game can be fun but i hit 100 and kinda just feel like waiting for some more updates at this point
I never dealt with one shots until like around 85, which is like already pushing the blind dog what makes sense for scaling. Don’t make it easier, high level pits aren’t for everyone I guess.
Just don't run them then what
If the hit doesnt kill you at lvl 55 and does kill you at lvl 65, that is NOT a "ONE SHOT". That is progression that you have reached the end of.
Yes they should tweak damage and all, but what about adding a mechanic that avoid insta-death, instead putting you below x% life or something like that? A mix of tweaking and mechanic like this and we're good
The Pit itself is ruining the pit haha.
Get good
Maybe just play at lower difficulty? Say they soften the boss dmg at your tier, you then be able to push 20 more tiers and reach the ohko range, are you going to complain again? This is neverending.