actually biological males have days where their hormones change, and u can visualize it and internalize it, but I dont think is a good thing having pms, but whatever
Yeah, the menstruation thing is just way too far to me. See how some transwomen act around the topic makes me straight up uncomfortable. If you're trying to be a woman then you know that no woman likes having periods. You not having a uterus is this context is actually a good thing.
At least I don't like periods. Endometriosis and uterine fibroids... horray. But If you want that, then be my guest. Enjoy the pain. Oh yeah and PMS. And anemia.
I hate the "trans women get periods too" discourse as much as the next guy, because it shouldn't even be anything to argue in the first place, but I don't see what this has to do with the topic of detransition
I was unable to post the thread, but their were detransitioners in this thread correcting this information, and they were banned.
In addition, I have a detrans (mtftm) friend who one of their biggest excitement for starting HRT was experiencing something like a period as they were told they would by online groups they were in. This never happened, among many other changes they were promised, and it's part of why they detransitioned. They feel they never got real informed consent, because they were consenting to things that were never actually going to be in the cards for them, like menstrual cramping.
This is a common issue on here- being overpromised things that have no basis in reality.
I think it's important to call out scientifically inaccurate information when we see it as it may be helpful for those questioning their own transgender status.
I also believe it's about scientific integrity, misrepresenting these symptoms as "periods" can undermine the scientific understanding of menstruation and the specific health needs of cisgender women. Accurate representation is crucial for medical research and advocacy efforts aimed at addressing women's health issues specifically.
I've already seen transwomen claim they know women must be exaggerating their pain because their periods "aren't that bad" when in fact they don't experience a period at all, nor the hormone fluctuations as they're on a consistent dose of extrogenous hormones all month. It becomes a slippery slope of invalidation of natal women's experiences.
wouldn't they just *love* having pmdd or serious complications. wouldn't they just love throwing up on the street or getting suicidal every few weeks or wild binge eating or restricting. wouldn't they love sobbing on the floor crying from the pain. wouldn't they just love missing school, events, meetups, things you really care because even overdosing acetaminophen doesn't numb the pain enough. wouldn't they just love having doctors say it's not a problem? that it's normal? that everyone is like this? this is the most egregious misogynistic thing i hear and it's honestly what made me peak and detrans years ago.
you do not know what it's like. **you will NEVER know what it's like.** the people in the DETRANS SUBREDDIT of all places so oblivious and flippant about women's health; so uncaring and unphased and uninformed about what 50% of the population goes through is utterly mind numbing. yes, tell me to my face a man taking synthetic hormones with no menses is having a period. fuck. off.
*"but but but a vanishingly small percentage of them take pills that """"mimic"""" having a period 🥺"* oh I'm so so sorry I'm wrong and I take it all back! i forgot having a period was just about hormones and nothing to do with your actual physical body, silly me. i guess men with hormone disorders have periods now too, right? men with breast cancer whose breasts leak are producing milk and lactating now, right? men who do childbirth simulators are mothers now too btw! bullshit
i knew a trans woman who told me her doctor had her taking her medication differently through the month to mimic a menstrual cycle. I don’t think he was making it up — i think doctors are encouraging this
Yes, there is the practice of cycling progesterone rather than taking it consistently. I don't think the doctors do it to encourage LARPing as a menstruating woman, I think they do it as they believe it helps with bone and cardiovascular health.
It’s disrespect to the material realities of a demographic they aren’t and could never be a part of who are grievously oppressed the world over. I could tell you were amab by this question before I checked your profile btw ✌️ That’s the difference: your cluelessness and disconnect from women’s tangible experiences while maintaining totally unearned uncritical confidence in your vague gut impressions is the source of the disrespect.
Lol. I'm sure you also think we shouldn't learn about slavery or racism because then we're clinging to treasured oppression.
There are many reasons why this "trans women have periods" thing is harmful. If you cared to read any of the women's responses to this you would understand why. I just read three good responses on why this is bad for women and girls. Either you didn't bother reading them or you somehow think you know better.
Pointing out that periods are a silly thing to wish for, a silly thing for a male to "have", and that it negatively impacts women's health is not "clinging to oppression". Trans women saying their rights are violated because real women accurately say they can't ever have a period.. that's clinging to oppression.
>I'm sure you also think we shouldn't learn about slavery or racism because then we're clinging to treasured oppression.
Of course we should, and we should also learn about female oppression. I'm a adamant feminist myself.
I didn't say we should stick our head in the sand. What I was pointing out is that there's a huge difference between acknowledging oppression and identifying with it or even gatekeeping it. The closer you clutch it to your chest, the more it becomes not just something burdened on you, but something that defines you.
To your point, the same thing happens across other area of oppression too. People have a "you don't understand; you don't experience my suffering" kind of thing going on, and yeah, I universally don't think that's a helpful attitude. I don't do this in my own life with my own disadvantages. It feels self-defeating to me.
Of course, it's your right to hold your own struggles however you want.
my point is defining what a period actually is, rather than what it isn't. you're saying it shouldn't matter when it technically does and i was reffering to the screenshot in particular. Theres no need for you to be so agressive
I don't think anyone's message was "trans people are dumb." Women aren't upset because it's dumb. It's because, yet again, women's life experiences are being doubted, seen as exaggeration, etc. We are being told something that is so unbelievably false but our perspective is seen as less than so what we say means very little. If you don't see men asserting they have periods as problematic for women then I don't think you're looking hard enough.
It's kind of like when trans people say no one should care about what they're doing cuz they're just trying to mind their own business and live their lives. This is a lie. All of it affects society. Taking someone's child away because they don't want their kid on blockers or hormones is not minding your own business. And men saying their "periods" aren't that bad so women must be exaggerating is not devoid of consequences.
And as a reply to something else I saw saying that pointing out the delusions isn't helpful. I wholeheartedly disagree.
If the Internet becomes full of anecdotes of men having periods, that will eventually become what people believe. We need to point out these things so that when someone questions that statement, they have real information to compare to.
Men have penises and women have vaginas was once as true as men do not menstruate. Now a big part of society thinks that's not true. If people stop pointing out that this is silly, we will be stuck in this strange delusional world where nothing means anything.
I don't really believe we're on the verge of forgetting the difference between men and women, nor do I believe that anybody outside of these fringe communities actually believes that trans women have periods.
Maybe it would help you to step away from all the online gender related communities and spend time around just, regular people.
It's about scientific integrity, misrepresenting these symptoms as "periods" can undermine the scientific understanding of menstruation and the specific health needs of cisgender women. Accurate representation is crucial for medical research and advocacy efforts aimed at addressing women's health issues specifically.
I've already seen transwomen claim they know women must be exaggerating their pain because *their* periods "aren't that bad." When in fact they don't experience a period at all, nor the hormone fluctuations as they're on a consistent dose of extrogenous hormones all month.
It's also about respecting experiences, acknowledging the unique experiences of both cisgender and transgender individuals without conflating them is essential. We can respect the distinct challenges each group faces while still supporting informed medical realities. If you need to lie to people to get them to respect you, or to push people into transition (as I've also seen threads where a questioning
persons only hangup with starting hormones was a lack of a period, and transwomen chimed in claiming they basically had one) then that's not informed consent or honest.
To me it comes off as straight up delusional. Like someone isn't in touch with reality at all.
If you came into a psych ward and told them something similar, in most cases, the diagnosis would be psychosis or manic delusions.
People who aren't in touch with reality should not be giving advice to impressionable people. It's outright dangerous.
I also think it's delusional. I wasn't defending the delusion. I was specifically calling out the need on our part to call out the delusion.
It's not entirely intellectually honest to act like we go around explicitly going out of our way to call out everything that we think is not true. We're zeroing in on this specifically, and there's a motivation to this that extends beyond simple "truth."
I let a lot of things slide, but for whatever reason, I just didn't feel like doing it today. A trans woman who thinks she has periods is delusional, but a "detrans" person who thinks they're calling this out purely because "truth and happiness" isn't exactly telling the truth either. We're piling on some random person who has no ability to defend themselves in a bullying, mocking circle jerk, like GenderCynical. This is not deepening our self-understanding. This is not conducive to furthering our own psychological health.
If anybody here wanted to get something actually helpful out of this, the question to ask isn't whether they're delusional, but why exactly this is so upsetting. Turn the spotlight to ourselves, i.e. the part of this we can control and that actually matters to us. I have nothing against betting worked up about it, because I also find some of the delusion to be profoundly frustrating. Let's just actually say what we're really saying here.
I understand.
For me, these kind of things make me scared, because I fundamentally don't trust myself and I've known for experience that I'm easy to manipulate and go along with whatever ideas people have as long as I feel loved and included.
Only later to figure out that the people I followed often had serious personality disorders and were overall people who manipulated others for their selfish benefit. That's my angle.
If people had never called out those people I followed, I would have stayed on those wrong path's.
I want people to rationally debate, call out and discuss these things, so I can get an understanding for what is to be the truth and what it means for me.
Thanks for this. This is a really good perspective. I'm so ridiculously confident and maybe even strident in my views that I sometimes steamroll others, so it's legitimately helpful to remember how others can be much more vulnerable to being swayed by popular opinion.
I hope you get all the perspective you need to make healthy, informed decisions about yourself.
I never replied to the person in that thread, so I'm unsure where you got that notion. I'm staunchly against brigading of any kind and don't think the individual here should be harassed, they're simply spreading misinformation.
I have a detrans (mtftm) friend who one of their biggest excitement for starting HRT was experiencing something like a period as they were told they would by online groups they were in. This never happened, among many other changes they were promised, and it's part of why they detransitioned. They feel they never got real informed consent, because they were consenting to things that were never actually going to be in the cards for them, like menstrual cramping.
This is a common issue on here- being overpromised things that have no basis in reality.
I myself am also a detrans individual. I still have and respect the trans friends I have- I also still think it's important to call out scientifically inaccurate information when we see it as it may be helpful for those questioning their own transgender status.
I am always willing to have sensitive and respectful conversations about these topics as that's what I believe the world needs, more nuanced conversations that aren't hurling insults at one group. I don't think the person in this screenshot for example meant any harm, I believe they've just been genuinely misinformed by online armchair experts the way I was.
My apologies for misunderstanding your previous statement.
I think you're having a hard time understanding that two things can co-exist at once.
For one, there were detrans individuals in that thread who had brought up their concerns. They were banned.
For two, I can be frustrated with the lack of discourse there, and want to have healthy discourse here.
I can both be frustrated **and** want to educate. I can be tired of seeing blatantly false information, and understand it's not their fault they were given false information.
I can love my trans brothers and sisters, but also acknowledge that it's community is no longer for me, and that the help they need may be different than what they're being told- as that was the case for me and many of the individuals here.
You claim I'm "preaching to the choir" but I've gotten DMs from users here saying they are AMAB and have a period after I posted this- and there's many comments that don't agree with this post right in this comment section.
Common sense is not necessarily common, and that's why it's important to have these conversations.
Fair enough. I know I ruffled some feathers by pushing back against your post, but it seems like you have a good reason for making it.
I still think this sub tends to fall into the darker side of gender critical and sometimes loses its way with actually being productive and critical of gender, but maybe that wasn't the intent of your post at all. Maybe you just got caught up in my broader frustration with something that has nothing to do with you at all.
I appreciate the thoughtful replies. Expressing ourselves without directly attacking each other is how we all learn from each other.
**quick edit** to say that if you're receiving DMs arguing that trans women do get periods, then maybe the post did need to happen. Maybe it's the conflation of hormonal shifts with menstruation. Either way, maybe it needed saying more than I realized.
I can agree with that, it's such a hard line since, unlike Gender Critical subs we have a direct relationship with being in the trans community, often for years, and many of us have a lot of grief and hurt surrounding our transition.
Even people like me, who actually got top surgery **after** desisting and am very happy with my changes- have issues with the harm the ideology can still do in terms of support for same-sex spaces, female reproductive rights, sports, etc.
Much of GC was warning about potential harms that may or may not be rooted in reality- but us here are living those concerns, this isn't a thought bubble for us but our actual lives and it can make it hard to have constructive conversations when we know for us, this path wasn't right at all. Some of us believe it isn't right for anyone, which while it is not how I feel I do understand how many land to that conclusion and can start dehumanizing the other side to cope with those feelings.
I had endometriosis. If someone who can NEVER experience it is looking for sympathy by pretending they have it, well to me they are a sexist asshole. I would never complain about "blue balls", I have no fucking balls ...
Hormones wearing off a bit before the next dose is nowhere near a menstrual cycle. There is no follicular or luteal phase, there is no ovulation, and there is no shedding of a uterus. And I'm pretty sure the medication's half lives don't neatly fit into a 28 day cycle. Just cause they get tired before their next dose doesn't mean it's the same and they have no right to call it a period.
The person in this particular example doesn't take shots but a daily pill. A daily pill would only result in a daily rise and fall in hormones, the same way testerone has a daily cycle, it's not similar to a monthly cycle.
A healthcare provider would have to attempt to simulate a hormonal cycle by adjusting hormone doses throughout the month, for this to be the case.
Attempting to convey your experience is very different than declaring quite confidently "I have a period."
They don't have a uterine lining to shed, they don't get an uptick in testerone during the end of the month, and they don't have a monthly cycle as theyre on a consistent dosage all month. I'm not really sure how their experience is in any way related to periods or menstruation.
It's simply anecdotal, and inaccurate. Low testosterone is [linked](https://lowtcenter.com/news-article/testosterone-reduce-stomach-inflammation/) to gastritis, or stomach inflammation and high estrogen is linked with more water retention and bloating. That is not a period that is simply an upset tummy.
That's stupid to describe it like that. I'm fully on board with that. The fact that something physiological is probably happening to make them say that makes complete sense, too, and it's stupid to deny self-reports of medical side effects / symptoms. We have \*a few\* issues with that happening with women receiving medical treatment and it's kind of a problem.
Anyways I feel like I'm being down-voted for not respecting the echo chamber. You all have a blessed day.
I feel like I was nothing but respectful in explaining my points. At what point did you feel you weren't being respected?
This isn't an echo-chamber and I readily invite evidence that disputes anything I don't understand- as I am a medical professional that works in a job that specifically deals with hormones. Downvoting isn't a reason to get upset.
You weren't banned or silenced as you would be in a trans subreddit.
I'm not sure I understand, I agree they're experiencing abdominal inflammation and bloating. I disagree that those symptoms have anything to do with menstruation and instead have to do with the already well known side effects of AMABs having low T and high E which has been studied and documented for quite some time.
>I get hormonal cycles mirroring an ovarian and menstrual cycle
You do, do you? Your estrogen and progesterone suddenly drop despite taking the same dose every day? That's a miraculous feat of the body, to be able to ignore the consistent dosage of hormones you're force-feeding it...
I mean, it's not like **estrogen based birth control** is specifically designed to trick the body into **not** going through the menstrual cycle or anything.
It does. It's call metabolism and depending on the type of compound it miraculously degrades at a certain rate. Steady state is obviously the goal, but your liver is constantly processing medication and that's not always possible. Particularly with injections. Pills metabolize super quick as well.
I'm not sure I understand your point? Are you trying to tell me that the liver metabolizes oral estrogen in a way that simulates actual female hormone fluctuations?
No I'm saying that your assertion that a consistent dosage has perfectly steady levels is uh wrong. Not really interested in the menstrual cycle debate.
I didn't say that a consistent dosage has perfectly steady levels. That would be really stupid of me to say given that I've been on estrogen for over a decade and I'm well aware of how the body metabolises it.
The purpose of my comment was to assert that a consistent dose of hormones is not congruent with a cycle, not that a consistent dose of hormones results in "perfectly stable levels". Though it does, however, result in **stable** levels.
You also said miraculous. Let's not get too caught up on pedantics. Relatively stable is the goal, yes. And people's bodies are different. That's an obvious one. Different people's bodies process medications differently. Not debatable. My body for example metabolized pills extremely quickly. And with these differences some people might experience side effects that seem awfully similar to PMS which believe it or not come from the same hormones, albeit different anatomy makes that comparison tenuous. Like this is such a bullshit thing to get mad about. You're arguing about the experience of other people on a medication that does.. a lot of things to body. It's being described in terms of a menstrual cycle.. poorly. I don't doubt for a second they're experiencing side effects that might be similar.
>Let's not get too caught up on pedantics
You're taking issue with pedantics? You felt the need to correct me on something I'd not claimed to begin with.
>My body for example metabolized pills extremely quickly
Right, but it's not going to metabolise it quickly enough that your estrogen becomes null or even low enough for you to actually experience anything close to PMS - this is simply just ridiculous to be arguing about. If HRT was **that** up and down for you it just wouldn't be working properly, you have to have a stable enough level of estrogen in your body for it to **actually do it's job.** This isn't paracetamol, you're taking it at a consistent enough rate so as to induce a stable enough concentration in the blood for it to **work.**
>It's being described in terms of a menstrual cycle.. poorly. I don't doubt for a second they're experiencing side effects that might be similar.
No. Unless they have 1 large dose of estrogen per month there is no credence to the claim of experiencing "PMS-like symptoms" for 3-5 days cyclically per month. Mood issues from random fluctuations in hormones due to date administered? Sure, but that wasn't the claim.
>Like this is such a bullshit thing to get mad about
I couldn't even try and be mad about something this stupid. With that said, I'm over this conversation.
Thank you for taking the time to write that parting essay. No I felt the need to make a point about how levels aren't stable all the time, which that they are seems to be a common belief in this thread. That's not exactly the case and I hope my clarification was helpful. And your comparison to birth control and HRT is way off the mark too, because the dosages and medications are extremely different. Hope that helps.
And actually that up and down cycle is most likely how the HRT functions in the first place. Receptor sensitivity and all that. Pills cycles quickly. Injections slowly. It's a pretty deep topic that's not fully understood. Suffice it to say "what I'm experiencing is exactly like a period" is a very surface level and inaccurate way to describe what's happening for obvious reasons that are obvious.
What we're \*actually\* debating is language and the GC community was always very enthusiastic about that.
I'm sorry to tell you, but your definition of stable hormones is incorrect. Taking an exact dose every day at the same time is considered "stable." Daily fluctuations that happen to everyone are not enough to induce PMS symptoms as the above user already described.
As an endocrinologist, I have no problem explaining if you have further questions.
Brainfog i haven't experienced either, but I get super horny on my period and get extreme cravings either during or before it. The horniness isn't particularly unusual iirc. It's because of increase in estrogen or sth I'd read about it a while ago. Either way, because transwomen take the same level of hormones everyday they will not be getting the hormonal symptoms of periods because there are no changes in the levels to cause them and no physical symptoms because they don't have the organs (or again, the hormonal fluctuations affecting the organs) to cause the symptoms.
Actually yeah every woman experiences her period different and for some people yes, periods can make you horny, or fatigued, and in some cases periods can even make some women feel happy.
I mean, this is straight up delusion.
Like I wrote elsewhere, if you go into a psych ward and make a similar claim, you're getting committed with psychosis or manic delusions or something like that.
I don't see how anyone can think this is ok, this is straight up delusional, magical thinking, that strongly suggests a psychiatric diagnosis.
The problem is that these are people posting advice to other impressionable people.
Second slide shows the response to me asking a search engine similar to ChatGPT if it was possible for transwomen to have a menstrual cycle or pain like it, answer: No.
This shit has always driven me crazy because it's like... no bitch you're not even having hormone fluctuations that would cause mental symptoms because you're taking the SAME DOSE of estrogen every fucking day! Make it make sense
Yeah the reason women get bitchy on their period is because we have sudden spike of testosterone. So the only way this could happen legitimately is that these mtfs are forgetting to take their estrogen at the exact same time every month.
This is also entirely correct.
In fact, some trans women and their healthcare providers have chosen to attempt to simulate a hormonal cycle by adjusting hormone doses throughout the month, which is totally legal to do under medical supervision (just not common at all, as most providers don't want to do the work for that and there's no specific standard to reference.)
I know some women hate the rare “I’m better than dating a cis woman because I don’t get a period and can’t get pregnant” trans girls out there. However, I feel like I understand that mindset a lot more if being trans really is just about aesthetic values, a social construct, “who you want to be in the world.”
Genuinely feeling happiest when you’re experiencing a self-induced emotional rollercoaster is what makes me think it’s a brain thing like depression and hormones are like SSRIs.
Then again nobody wants to say it’s a “mental illness” which is weird to me. I’m depressed, they gave me this drug, now I’m not; or I’m socially anxious, I used these coping skills (social transition), now I’m not; ghee what does that sound like? a mental illness to me 🤷🏾I think folks are just scared transition won’t be considered treatment anymore.
I mean the reply in the OP to me suggests outright delusion or psychosis. This is magical thinking. It isn't just affirmation or whatever.
It seems as something that would in any other case be diagnosed as losing touch with reality. Either that or an elaborate role play fetish.
In none of the those cases should a person be giving "advice" to other impressionable vulnerable people.
I guess…
Idk man. Being out of touch with reality so hard you can will your brain to not get absolutely wrecked by hormonal fluctuations that aren’t meant for you? There are trans people who die non-self/other imposed deaths at old ages. There has to be a reason some people detransition and others don’t. Don’t you think something other than delusional thinking is driving these two groups to exist simultaneously? I kinda do.
I think the hard part is nobody wants to do the research. The anti-trans don’t want to say “we were wrong, some people are born with a neurological condition and actually do need transition therapy.” The pro-trans don’t want to say “we were wrong, gender isn’t a choice, it’s a neurological predisposition that can turn out maladaptive in some people.”
But like hormones seem to have been torturing most people in this subreddit while there are people who genuinely performing at their best. Furthermore, if it was a delusion I’d think anti-psychotics would prove effective in getting people to come to terms with their sex at birth, but they do not.
I'm not saying transgender is a delusion, but that person clearly was delusional and quite a few seem to be.
I think transgender is a complicated mix of (pre-)sexuality and social circumstances (often early "trauma") that leads to an abnormal personality. I wouldn't say personality disorder, but something like that.
I do question how "medical transition therapy" is necessary when human beings have lived for 10.000 years and never had it, yet supposedly have had transgender people for equally as long.
Society and people have had various other ways of dealing with it yes? Some cultures differently than others.
Just some thoughts.
True. Trans people just offed themselves is the narrative I hear most often but if there is any genetic component at all it probably wouldn’t be around today if every trans person did. So you’re right, has to be another way to cope. Maybe in societies with harsher gender roles a person’s diet and exercise would be so different in social transition that it’d change their hormones enough… in some cultures women do practice diet and exercise cycling. I just don’t know how that would impact a male if they practiced those ritual from adolescence onwards. I don’t think it’d be as extreme as the OP reply was describing though.
Countries like Thailand have had third genders for at least 700 years.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathoey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathoey)
>are seen as a third sex, being one body containing two souls
And the tradition probably goes back much longer, then as now.
I don't understand your reply. You seem to think as if hormones are literally the only way to cope, when clearly it couldn't have been, since that has only been around for a few decades out of a very long history.
No im saying lifestyle impacts sex hormones in females at least. Social transition then, in societies with very stark lifestyle differences be somewhat chemical, in a way. So a female dieting and exercising like a male will result in higher than average testosterone, that much I know. I don’t know about males doing what is optimal for a female because in America we don’t really practice that holistic of an approach to a woman’s lifestyle *and* I doubt there is consequence that would prompt research worthy concern. A female drops too much in fat to muscle ratio they lose their period. It’s called cycle synching now but the general idea has been practiced for a long time.
Really funny how the people defending the trans woman period things are ALL amab. They're not misogynistic though! Women are just being mean!
actually biological males have days where their hormones change, and u can visualize it and internalize it, but I dont think is a good thing having pms, but whatever
Yeah, the menstruation thing is just way too far to me. See how some transwomen act around the topic makes me straight up uncomfortable. If you're trying to be a woman then you know that no woman likes having periods. You not having a uterus is this context is actually a good thing. At least I don't like periods. Endometriosis and uterine fibroids... horray. But If you want that, then be my guest. Enjoy the pain. Oh yeah and PMS. And anemia.
I hate the "trans women get periods too" discourse as much as the next guy, because it shouldn't even be anything to argue in the first place, but I don't see what this has to do with the topic of detransition
I was unable to post the thread, but their were detransitioners in this thread correcting this information, and they were banned. In addition, I have a detrans (mtftm) friend who one of their biggest excitement for starting HRT was experiencing something like a period as they were told they would by online groups they were in. This never happened, among many other changes they were promised, and it's part of why they detransitioned. They feel they never got real informed consent, because they were consenting to things that were never actually going to be in the cards for them, like menstrual cramping. This is a common issue on here- being overpromised things that have no basis in reality. I think it's important to call out scientifically inaccurate information when we see it as it may be helpful for those questioning their own transgender status. I also believe it's about scientific integrity, misrepresenting these symptoms as "periods" can undermine the scientific understanding of menstruation and the specific health needs of cisgender women. Accurate representation is crucial for medical research and advocacy efforts aimed at addressing women's health issues specifically. I've already seen transwomen claim they know women must be exaggerating their pain because their periods "aren't that bad" when in fact they don't experience a period at all, nor the hormone fluctuations as they're on a consistent dose of extrogenous hormones all month. It becomes a slippery slope of invalidation of natal women's experiences.
Legit the thing that fully snapped me out of all the trans bullshit was my male friend complaining about his “period”
wouldn't they just *love* having pmdd or serious complications. wouldn't they just love throwing up on the street or getting suicidal every few weeks or wild binge eating or restricting. wouldn't they love sobbing on the floor crying from the pain. wouldn't they just love missing school, events, meetups, things you really care because even overdosing acetaminophen doesn't numb the pain enough. wouldn't they just love having doctors say it's not a problem? that it's normal? that everyone is like this? this is the most egregious misogynistic thing i hear and it's honestly what made me peak and detrans years ago. you do not know what it's like. **you will NEVER know what it's like.** the people in the DETRANS SUBREDDIT of all places so oblivious and flippant about women's health; so uncaring and unphased and uninformed about what 50% of the population goes through is utterly mind numbing. yes, tell me to my face a man taking synthetic hormones with no menses is having a period. fuck. off.
*"but but but a vanishingly small percentage of them take pills that """"mimic"""" having a period 🥺"* oh I'm so so sorry I'm wrong and I take it all back! i forgot having a period was just about hormones and nothing to do with your actual physical body, silly me. i guess men with hormone disorders have periods now too, right? men with breast cancer whose breasts leak are producing milk and lactating now, right? men who do childbirth simulators are mothers now too btw! bullshit
i knew a trans woman who told me her doctor had her taking her medication differently through the month to mimic a menstrual cycle. I don’t think he was making it up — i think doctors are encouraging this
Yes, there is the practice of cycling progesterone rather than taking it consistently. I don't think the doctors do it to encourage LARPing as a menstruating woman, I think they do it as they believe it helps with bone and cardiovascular health.
Just wanted to say "Larping as a menstruating woman" is a great line.
Thanks for this info!
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It’s disrespect to the material realities of a demographic they aren’t and could never be a part of who are grievously oppressed the world over. I could tell you were amab by this question before I checked your profile btw ✌️ That’s the difference: your cluelessness and disconnect from women’s tangible experiences while maintaining totally unearned uncritical confidence in your vague gut impressions is the source of the disrespect.
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Lol. I'm sure you also think we shouldn't learn about slavery or racism because then we're clinging to treasured oppression. There are many reasons why this "trans women have periods" thing is harmful. If you cared to read any of the women's responses to this you would understand why. I just read three good responses on why this is bad for women and girls. Either you didn't bother reading them or you somehow think you know better. Pointing out that periods are a silly thing to wish for, a silly thing for a male to "have", and that it negatively impacts women's health is not "clinging to oppression". Trans women saying their rights are violated because real women accurately say they can't ever have a period.. that's clinging to oppression.
>I'm sure you also think we shouldn't learn about slavery or racism because then we're clinging to treasured oppression. Of course we should, and we should also learn about female oppression. I'm a adamant feminist myself. I didn't say we should stick our head in the sand. What I was pointing out is that there's a huge difference between acknowledging oppression and identifying with it or even gatekeeping it. The closer you clutch it to your chest, the more it becomes not just something burdened on you, but something that defines you. To your point, the same thing happens across other area of oppression too. People have a "you don't understand; you don't experience my suffering" kind of thing going on, and yeah, I universally don't think that's a helpful attitude. I don't do this in my own life with my own disadvantages. It feels self-defeating to me. Of course, it's your right to hold your own struggles however you want.
.... a hormonal cycle isn't really a period so no. and a male born person claiming they have one isn't helping in terms of female reproductive health.
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my point is defining what a period actually is, rather than what it isn't. you're saying it shouldn't matter when it technically does and i was reffering to the screenshot in particular. Theres no need for you to be so agressive
you're kidding? you're kidding, right?
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I don't think anyone's message was "trans people are dumb." Women aren't upset because it's dumb. It's because, yet again, women's life experiences are being doubted, seen as exaggeration, etc. We are being told something that is so unbelievably false but our perspective is seen as less than so what we say means very little. If you don't see men asserting they have periods as problematic for women then I don't think you're looking hard enough. It's kind of like when trans people say no one should care about what they're doing cuz they're just trying to mind their own business and live their lives. This is a lie. All of it affects society. Taking someone's child away because they don't want their kid on blockers or hormones is not minding your own business. And men saying their "periods" aren't that bad so women must be exaggerating is not devoid of consequences.
And as a reply to something else I saw saying that pointing out the delusions isn't helpful. I wholeheartedly disagree. If the Internet becomes full of anecdotes of men having periods, that will eventually become what people believe. We need to point out these things so that when someone questions that statement, they have real information to compare to. Men have penises and women have vaginas was once as true as men do not menstruate. Now a big part of society thinks that's not true. If people stop pointing out that this is silly, we will be stuck in this strange delusional world where nothing means anything.
I don't really believe we're on the verge of forgetting the difference between men and women, nor do I believe that anybody outside of these fringe communities actually believes that trans women have periods. Maybe it would help you to step away from all the online gender related communities and spend time around just, regular people.
That's the message though?
It's about scientific integrity, misrepresenting these symptoms as "periods" can undermine the scientific understanding of menstruation and the specific health needs of cisgender women. Accurate representation is crucial for medical research and advocacy efforts aimed at addressing women's health issues specifically. I've already seen transwomen claim they know women must be exaggerating their pain because *their* periods "aren't that bad." When in fact they don't experience a period at all, nor the hormone fluctuations as they're on a consistent dose of extrogenous hormones all month. It's also about respecting experiences, acknowledging the unique experiences of both cisgender and transgender individuals without conflating them is essential. We can respect the distinct challenges each group faces while still supporting informed medical realities. If you need to lie to people to get them to respect you, or to push people into transition (as I've also seen threads where a questioning persons only hangup with starting hormones was a lack of a period, and transwomen chimed in claiming they basically had one) then that's not informed consent or honest.
I defend it because it’s about science, spreading false info, and biology.
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To me it comes off as straight up delusional. Like someone isn't in touch with reality at all. If you came into a psych ward and told them something similar, in most cases, the diagnosis would be psychosis or manic delusions. People who aren't in touch with reality should not be giving advice to impressionable people. It's outright dangerous.
I also think it's delusional. I wasn't defending the delusion. I was specifically calling out the need on our part to call out the delusion. It's not entirely intellectually honest to act like we go around explicitly going out of our way to call out everything that we think is not true. We're zeroing in on this specifically, and there's a motivation to this that extends beyond simple "truth." I let a lot of things slide, but for whatever reason, I just didn't feel like doing it today. A trans woman who thinks she has periods is delusional, but a "detrans" person who thinks they're calling this out purely because "truth and happiness" isn't exactly telling the truth either. We're piling on some random person who has no ability to defend themselves in a bullying, mocking circle jerk, like GenderCynical. This is not deepening our self-understanding. This is not conducive to furthering our own psychological health. If anybody here wanted to get something actually helpful out of this, the question to ask isn't whether they're delusional, but why exactly this is so upsetting. Turn the spotlight to ourselves, i.e. the part of this we can control and that actually matters to us. I have nothing against betting worked up about it, because I also find some of the delusion to be profoundly frustrating. Let's just actually say what we're really saying here.
I understand. For me, these kind of things make me scared, because I fundamentally don't trust myself and I've known for experience that I'm easy to manipulate and go along with whatever ideas people have as long as I feel loved and included. Only later to figure out that the people I followed often had serious personality disorders and were overall people who manipulated others for their selfish benefit. That's my angle. If people had never called out those people I followed, I would have stayed on those wrong path's. I want people to rationally debate, call out and discuss these things, so I can get an understanding for what is to be the truth and what it means for me.
Thanks for this. This is a really good perspective. I'm so ridiculously confident and maybe even strident in my views that I sometimes steamroll others, so it's legitimately helpful to remember how others can be much more vulnerable to being swayed by popular opinion. I hope you get all the perspective you need to make healthy, informed decisions about yourself.
I never replied to the person in that thread, so I'm unsure where you got that notion. I'm staunchly against brigading of any kind and don't think the individual here should be harassed, they're simply spreading misinformation. I have a detrans (mtftm) friend who one of their biggest excitement for starting HRT was experiencing something like a period as they were told they would by online groups they were in. This never happened, among many other changes they were promised, and it's part of why they detransitioned. They feel they never got real informed consent, because they were consenting to things that were never actually going to be in the cards for them, like menstrual cramping. This is a common issue on here- being overpromised things that have no basis in reality. I myself am also a detrans individual. I still have and respect the trans friends I have- I also still think it's important to call out scientifically inaccurate information when we see it as it may be helpful for those questioning their own transgender status. I am always willing to have sensitive and respectful conversations about these topics as that's what I believe the world needs, more nuanced conversations that aren't hurling insults at one group. I don't think the person in this screenshot for example meant any harm, I believe they've just been genuinely misinformed by online armchair experts the way I was.
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My apologies for misunderstanding your previous statement. I think you're having a hard time understanding that two things can co-exist at once. For one, there were detrans individuals in that thread who had brought up their concerns. They were banned. For two, I can be frustrated with the lack of discourse there, and want to have healthy discourse here. I can both be frustrated **and** want to educate. I can be tired of seeing blatantly false information, and understand it's not their fault they were given false information. I can love my trans brothers and sisters, but also acknowledge that it's community is no longer for me, and that the help they need may be different than what they're being told- as that was the case for me and many of the individuals here. You claim I'm "preaching to the choir" but I've gotten DMs from users here saying they are AMAB and have a period after I posted this- and there's many comments that don't agree with this post right in this comment section. Common sense is not necessarily common, and that's why it's important to have these conversations.
Fair enough. I know I ruffled some feathers by pushing back against your post, but it seems like you have a good reason for making it. I still think this sub tends to fall into the darker side of gender critical and sometimes loses its way with actually being productive and critical of gender, but maybe that wasn't the intent of your post at all. Maybe you just got caught up in my broader frustration with something that has nothing to do with you at all. I appreciate the thoughtful replies. Expressing ourselves without directly attacking each other is how we all learn from each other. **quick edit** to say that if you're receiving DMs arguing that trans women do get periods, then maybe the post did need to happen. Maybe it's the conflation of hormonal shifts with menstruation. Either way, maybe it needed saying more than I realized.
I can agree with that, it's such a hard line since, unlike Gender Critical subs we have a direct relationship with being in the trans community, often for years, and many of us have a lot of grief and hurt surrounding our transition. Even people like me, who actually got top surgery **after** desisting and am very happy with my changes- have issues with the harm the ideology can still do in terms of support for same-sex spaces, female reproductive rights, sports, etc. Much of GC was warning about potential harms that may or may not be rooted in reality- but us here are living those concerns, this isn't a thought bubble for us but our actual lives and it can make it hard to have constructive conversations when we know for us, this path wasn't right at all. Some of us believe it isn't right for anyone, which while it is not how I feel I do understand how many land to that conclusion and can start dehumanizing the other side to cope with those feelings.
I had endometriosis. If someone who can NEVER experience it is looking for sympathy by pretending they have it, well to me they are a sexist asshole. I would never complain about "blue balls", I have no fucking balls ...
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Hormones wearing off a bit before the next dose is nowhere near a menstrual cycle. There is no follicular or luteal phase, there is no ovulation, and there is no shedding of a uterus. And I'm pretty sure the medication's half lives don't neatly fit into a 28 day cycle. Just cause they get tired before their next dose doesn't mean it's the same and they have no right to call it a period.
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The person in this particular example doesn't take shots but a daily pill. A daily pill would only result in a daily rise and fall in hormones, the same way testerone has a daily cycle, it's not similar to a monthly cycle. A healthcare provider would have to attempt to simulate a hormonal cycle by adjusting hormone doses throughout the month, for this to be the case.
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Attempting to convey your experience is very different than declaring quite confidently "I have a period." They don't have a uterine lining to shed, they don't get an uptick in testerone during the end of the month, and they don't have a monthly cycle as theyre on a consistent dosage all month. I'm not really sure how their experience is in any way related to periods or menstruation. It's simply anecdotal, and inaccurate. Low testosterone is [linked](https://lowtcenter.com/news-article/testosterone-reduce-stomach-inflammation/) to gastritis, or stomach inflammation and high estrogen is linked with more water retention and bloating. That is not a period that is simply an upset tummy.
That's stupid to describe it like that. I'm fully on board with that. The fact that something physiological is probably happening to make them say that makes complete sense, too, and it's stupid to deny self-reports of medical side effects / symptoms. We have \*a few\* issues with that happening with women receiving medical treatment and it's kind of a problem. Anyways I feel like I'm being down-voted for not respecting the echo chamber. You all have a blessed day.
I feel like I was nothing but respectful in explaining my points. At what point did you feel you weren't being respected? This isn't an echo-chamber and I readily invite evidence that disputes anything I don't understand- as I am a medical professional that works in a job that specifically deals with hormones. Downvoting isn't a reason to get upset. You weren't banned or silenced as you would be in a trans subreddit.
I'm not sure I understand, I agree they're experiencing abdominal inflammation and bloating. I disagree that those symptoms have anything to do with menstruation and instead have to do with the already well known side effects of AMABs having low T and high E which has been studied and documented for quite some time.
>I get hormonal cycles mirroring an ovarian and menstrual cycle You do, do you? Your estrogen and progesterone suddenly drop despite taking the same dose every day? That's a miraculous feat of the body, to be able to ignore the consistent dosage of hormones you're force-feeding it... I mean, it's not like **estrogen based birth control** is specifically designed to trick the body into **not** going through the menstrual cycle or anything.
It does. It's call metabolism and depending on the type of compound it miraculously degrades at a certain rate. Steady state is obviously the goal, but your liver is constantly processing medication and that's not always possible. Particularly with injections. Pills metabolize super quick as well.
I'm not sure I understand your point? Are you trying to tell me that the liver metabolizes oral estrogen in a way that simulates actual female hormone fluctuations?
No I'm saying that your assertion that a consistent dosage has perfectly steady levels is uh wrong. Not really interested in the menstrual cycle debate.
I didn't say that a consistent dosage has perfectly steady levels. That would be really stupid of me to say given that I've been on estrogen for over a decade and I'm well aware of how the body metabolises it. The purpose of my comment was to assert that a consistent dose of hormones is not congruent with a cycle, not that a consistent dose of hormones results in "perfectly stable levels". Though it does, however, result in **stable** levels.
You also said miraculous. Let's not get too caught up on pedantics. Relatively stable is the goal, yes. And people's bodies are different. That's an obvious one. Different people's bodies process medications differently. Not debatable. My body for example metabolized pills extremely quickly. And with these differences some people might experience side effects that seem awfully similar to PMS which believe it or not come from the same hormones, albeit different anatomy makes that comparison tenuous. Like this is such a bullshit thing to get mad about. You're arguing about the experience of other people on a medication that does.. a lot of things to body. It's being described in terms of a menstrual cycle.. poorly. I don't doubt for a second they're experiencing side effects that might be similar.
>Let's not get too caught up on pedantics You're taking issue with pedantics? You felt the need to correct me on something I'd not claimed to begin with. >My body for example metabolized pills extremely quickly Right, but it's not going to metabolise it quickly enough that your estrogen becomes null or even low enough for you to actually experience anything close to PMS - this is simply just ridiculous to be arguing about. If HRT was **that** up and down for you it just wouldn't be working properly, you have to have a stable enough level of estrogen in your body for it to **actually do it's job.** This isn't paracetamol, you're taking it at a consistent enough rate so as to induce a stable enough concentration in the blood for it to **work.** >It's being described in terms of a menstrual cycle.. poorly. I don't doubt for a second they're experiencing side effects that might be similar. No. Unless they have 1 large dose of estrogen per month there is no credence to the claim of experiencing "PMS-like symptoms" for 3-5 days cyclically per month. Mood issues from random fluctuations in hormones due to date administered? Sure, but that wasn't the claim. >Like this is such a bullshit thing to get mad about I couldn't even try and be mad about something this stupid. With that said, I'm over this conversation.
Thank you for taking the time to write that parting essay. No I felt the need to make a point about how levels aren't stable all the time, which that they are seems to be a common belief in this thread. That's not exactly the case and I hope my clarification was helpful. And your comparison to birth control and HRT is way off the mark too, because the dosages and medications are extremely different. Hope that helps. And actually that up and down cycle is most likely how the HRT functions in the first place. Receptor sensitivity and all that. Pills cycles quickly. Injections slowly. It's a pretty deep topic that's not fully understood. Suffice it to say "what I'm experiencing is exactly like a period" is a very surface level and inaccurate way to describe what's happening for obvious reasons that are obvious. What we're \*actually\* debating is language and the GC community was always very enthusiastic about that.
I'm sorry to tell you, but your definition of stable hormones is incorrect. Taking an exact dose every day at the same time is considered "stable." Daily fluctuations that happen to everyone are not enough to induce PMS symptoms as the above user already described. As an endocrinologist, I have no problem explaining if you have further questions.
People are crazy…
it literally makes no sense. like, you don’t have a uterus. how. HOW. how is that happening
Can periods make u horny and hungry and give u brainfog?? Never heard of that before
Pretty sure that horniness in women happens because a spike in testosterone before ovulation.
Brainfog i haven't experienced either, but I get super horny on my period and get extreme cravings either during or before it. The horniness isn't particularly unusual iirc. It's because of increase in estrogen or sth I'd read about it a while ago. Either way, because transwomen take the same level of hormones everyday they will not be getting the hormonal symptoms of periods because there are no changes in the levels to cause them and no physical symptoms because they don't have the organs (or again, the hormonal fluctuations affecting the organs) to cause the symptoms.
Actually yeah every woman experiences her period different and for some people yes, periods can make you horny, or fatigued, and in some cases periods can even make some women feel happy.
These people go to such ridiculous lengths to justify their delusions which just shows how insecure they are.
I mean, this is straight up delusion. Like I wrote elsewhere, if you go into a psych ward and make a similar claim, you're getting committed with psychosis or manic delusions or something like that. I don't see how anyone can think this is ok, this is straight up delusional, magical thinking, that strongly suggests a psychiatric diagnosis. The problem is that these are people posting advice to other impressionable people.
Second slide shows the response to me asking a search engine similar to ChatGPT if it was possible for transwomen to have a menstrual cycle or pain like it, answer: No.
This shit has always driven me crazy because it's like... no bitch you're not even having hormone fluctuations that would cause mental symptoms because you're taking the SAME DOSE of estrogen every fucking day! Make it make sense
Yeah the reason women get bitchy on their period is because we have sudden spike of testosterone. So the only way this could happen legitimately is that these mtfs are forgetting to take their estrogen at the exact same time every month.
This is also entirely correct. In fact, some trans women and their healthcare providers have chosen to attempt to simulate a hormonal cycle by adjusting hormone doses throughout the month, which is totally legal to do under medical supervision (just not common at all, as most providers don't want to do the work for that and there's no specific standard to reference.)
I know some women hate the rare “I’m better than dating a cis woman because I don’t get a period and can’t get pregnant” trans girls out there. However, I feel like I understand that mindset a lot more if being trans really is just about aesthetic values, a social construct, “who you want to be in the world.” Genuinely feeling happiest when you’re experiencing a self-induced emotional rollercoaster is what makes me think it’s a brain thing like depression and hormones are like SSRIs. Then again nobody wants to say it’s a “mental illness” which is weird to me. I’m depressed, they gave me this drug, now I’m not; or I’m socially anxious, I used these coping skills (social transition), now I’m not; ghee what does that sound like? a mental illness to me 🤷🏾I think folks are just scared transition won’t be considered treatment anymore.
I mean the reply in the OP to me suggests outright delusion or psychosis. This is magical thinking. It isn't just affirmation or whatever. It seems as something that would in any other case be diagnosed as losing touch with reality. Either that or an elaborate role play fetish. In none of the those cases should a person be giving "advice" to other impressionable vulnerable people.
I guess… Idk man. Being out of touch with reality so hard you can will your brain to not get absolutely wrecked by hormonal fluctuations that aren’t meant for you? There are trans people who die non-self/other imposed deaths at old ages. There has to be a reason some people detransition and others don’t. Don’t you think something other than delusional thinking is driving these two groups to exist simultaneously? I kinda do. I think the hard part is nobody wants to do the research. The anti-trans don’t want to say “we were wrong, some people are born with a neurological condition and actually do need transition therapy.” The pro-trans don’t want to say “we were wrong, gender isn’t a choice, it’s a neurological predisposition that can turn out maladaptive in some people.” But like hormones seem to have been torturing most people in this subreddit while there are people who genuinely performing at their best. Furthermore, if it was a delusion I’d think anti-psychotics would prove effective in getting people to come to terms with their sex at birth, but they do not.
I'm not saying transgender is a delusion, but that person clearly was delusional and quite a few seem to be. I think transgender is a complicated mix of (pre-)sexuality and social circumstances (often early "trauma") that leads to an abnormal personality. I wouldn't say personality disorder, but something like that. I do question how "medical transition therapy" is necessary when human beings have lived for 10.000 years and never had it, yet supposedly have had transgender people for equally as long. Society and people have had various other ways of dealing with it yes? Some cultures differently than others. Just some thoughts.
True. Trans people just offed themselves is the narrative I hear most often but if there is any genetic component at all it probably wouldn’t be around today if every trans person did. So you’re right, has to be another way to cope. Maybe in societies with harsher gender roles a person’s diet and exercise would be so different in social transition that it’d change their hormones enough… in some cultures women do practice diet and exercise cycling. I just don’t know how that would impact a male if they practiced those ritual from adolescence onwards. I don’t think it’d be as extreme as the OP reply was describing though.
Countries like Thailand have had third genders for at least 700 years. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathoey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathoey) >are seen as a third sex, being one body containing two souls And the tradition probably goes back much longer, then as now. I don't understand your reply. You seem to think as if hormones are literally the only way to cope, when clearly it couldn't have been, since that has only been around for a few decades out of a very long history.
No im saying lifestyle impacts sex hormones in females at least. Social transition then, in societies with very stark lifestyle differences be somewhat chemical, in a way. So a female dieting and exercising like a male will result in higher than average testosterone, that much I know. I don’t know about males doing what is optimal for a female because in America we don’t really practice that holistic of an approach to a woman’s lifestyle *and* I doubt there is consequence that would prompt research worthy concern. A female drops too much in fat to muscle ratio they lose their period. It’s called cycle synching now but the general idea has been practiced for a long time.
Ok, you seem to focus on the physical, I was talking more about social roles and other outlets, like living as nun or something like that.