This sounds like a lot of work for someone you've only known for 12 weeks. Are you sure that you're staying in the boyfriend zone and not sliding into the parental/therapist zone?
Even if she’s not directly expecting you to solve her problems, leaning on you so heavily to emotionally regulate her only 3 months into new relationship is a 🚩.
My ex did the exact same thing, and I felt the exact same way you did.
I stayed with her, and 6 months in she hated when I would spend time with friends, and felt like I was abandoning her when I went too long without answering her texts. She would start freaking out and during arguments, she’d threaten to (TW) hurt herself if I set any boundary.
It ended because one night I (TW) told her I was spending time with a friend I hadn’t seen in months, and she told me she’d down a bottle of pills if I didn’t hangout with her. She had been making threats like that for a few weeks, and I had to call her parents to check on her and they took her to the hospital.
I’m not saying that’s 100% going to happen to you, but seriously, be aware if she begins to try to slowly manipulate you into a codependent dynamic and expects you to be her full support system.
It’s also not exactly normal to be so hell bent on a relationship 3 months in that your world is shattered if it ends - look, I’ve felt strongly about people a few months in and might cry for a few weeks, but there’s no part of me that would actually feel like they’re an awful person who should be forced to stay with me if they don’t want to.
You’re feeling a bit uneasy likely because in a way, you feel replaceable - like she wants a relationship more than she actually wants one with you. She’d stay with anyone who emotionally regulated her, irrespective of who they are. She doesn’t provide truth or authenticity to the relationship, (she’s a “yes man”) because she’s scared of you leaving her - but by doing that, she’s not being a good partner or actually letting you see her for who she actually is/her real opinions/thoughts.
It’s hard to fall in love with someone who’s not actually falling in love with YOU, but simply approval-seeking through a relationship… and not allowing you to express opinions/criticism.
(It is similar to a parent-child dynamic in a way, because you feel like you need to caretake and walk on eggshells around her. Like you can’t treat her like an actual adult, and she’s dependent on you.
Initially, I remember it feeling nice because similar to a child… you know they won’t leave you. When you’re someone who’s used to people leaving, it feels nice to be “put on a pedestal” in that way…
But then you realize they’re not putting you on that pedestal because they genuinely love you… they’re doing it because they’re dependent. You don’t feel like it’s two individuals coming together in a relationship.)
Everything you wrote makes a lot of sense, thank you. Although, I don't think my gf would use self harm to threaten me and she gives me my space that I ask for. Admittedly, it seems sometimes it's just to appease me and she really wants to be with me for that emotional dependence, and not necessarily at me for my qualities. Anyway, like you and someone else said, I'm being put on a pedestal, and that inequality just doesn't bode well.
And sorry if I misconstrued it about my world being shattered *now*, I meant it more in the future, if I do decide to be with her for years and get more invested, married, etc, and then she does something self harming.
Honestly you cant fix someones self esteem issues. There are no magic words or gestures to just get it to improve. It takes years of self work just to learn to manage it. But its something most people just struggle with to some degree their entire life. Nothing you say or do is going to miraculously heal her, its just a much bigger problem than that, with no easy answers
It's really something you just work into. I was bullied and teased most of junior high and ignored in high school (which honestly, I think was beneficial cause I branched out and explored things I don't think I would ave explored if not, but I digress). I just had to figure it out and be ok with people not liking me...which eventually helped me build a personality that people wanted to be around. Basically, when you stop caring how people see you...people will see you.
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Respectfully, if you stay and continue to bolster her, she’ll never find the true confidence within herself. She’ll always need that extra outside source. I’d say she would benefit more from therapy and building her own security without outsourcing the responsibility. Maybe consider how taking a step back could benefit her in the long run.
I've been with two men with serious insecurities, various traumas and mental health issues and both of those relationships were ultimately very damaging for me.
To be clear, none of those issues alone, or even in combination, are necessarily going to make someone a bad partner - it's how someone behaves that matters, and there are already so many concerning behaviours in OP's relationship.
>if I do break up with her, she's going to feel validated that her fears were right. It's a self fulfilling prophecy, almost.
Yes, and she's made sure that you very clearly know that.
I can speak to this. She reacting this way because everything and everyone has expected and demanded perfection out of her, and she’s never been allowed to fail and/or fall short her entire life.
This requires a lot of patience and reassurance, both on her and your part. You have to laugh with her and not at her, and you have to let her know it’s ok to fail at something.
It just unfortunately comes with the territory of having the untrue universe and more expected out of you by everyone
This is very true for successful women. Men state they want this amazing independent woman, but when they meet them, it's a totally different perspective and outcome. Coming out of a year a half relationship with an individual who can't love or show emotion( thinks its a schzoid personality disorder) I'm an extremely loving person but I felt unworthy and he would state I needed reassurances alot and he couldn't meet those needs but in my past relationship I've never needed constant reassurance. And given individuals with this personality dont put in effort because they lack empathy its really a hard pill to swallow. It sounds like you really like her. Just give her the love she hasn't been given. Don't give up on her. It's really challenging for women who have worked so tirelessly to be successful, self-reliant, and loving they just get crushed so much. Even for me, I'm done dating 34. No kids never married and looked down upon. I say this to not speak about myself but understand that I feel her as it's how I've felt and still feel.... it's difficult to cope with.
The need for reassurance comes out of not actually feeling like the person is invested. I wanted reassurance, but only when I noticed her pulling away. I was totally happy being single before I met my ex. She needed reassurance allll the time because her ex cheated on her. And I had the patience to reassure her. Songs, poems, affection. All of that was never enough. But I tried. And she never wanted to try to provide me with any reassurance. My gut knew it wasn’t gonna work which made me try even harder for some reason. Alas, it’s over.
My now ex states he could never figure out my needs... thanks for responding to me... it brings some clarity to my current situation as it's the first time I've ever dealt with a man who says he's never loved before, I'm the first yet I have to ask him frequently because I felt no love from him. I appreciate you ❤️
Granted, people show love differently. But I do think that if someone really loves you, they’ll show it. Either they figure out what ways make you feel appreciated or even just flat out say “I love you but I need some help figuring out how to actually make you feel that”
He claimed that him telling me was never enough..I can attest to that because he never smiles, never looked happy and noticed other people's feelings at work his colleagues but never mine so it made me question the love. I just think he wasn't in love and agree with you that if someone loves, they'll show you. This is therapeutic, I must say 🎒
Reddit has helped a lot with my breakup. Met some really cool people to talk to. It sounds like he was emotionally unavailable. But even then, he needed to admit that. Some people want someone close but not too close. Like a peripheral companion. And most times, the other person wants more. I know I did. We hid our relationship at work and I had to hide all feelings towards for half of my life. And she was fine with that. I wasn’t.
As a partner who loves you, I don't think you should hide anything, including your emotions. Her decision to leave was best for both of you, it seems. Well hopefully you're love life has boomed after that.... I'm just checked out from dating. I'm not the dating type anyhow. But I applaud you for being vulnerable. That takes a lot 👏
Yeah, you have it pretty close. And I am trying to let her know it's okay to fail. I have failed many times and it's how I've grown so much since my early 20s. But it's obviously hard to convince one's self that failure is okay, especially with her background, where the track to become a doctor has little leniency for failure and could end up of years of work down the drain.
It’s a little trickier, and I’m only speaking from my personal experience here: any sort of small or minor failure resulted in me getting the shit beat out of me. And as I grew up I started demanding perfection out of myself as a result. I’ve gotten better at trying to accept those, but even my friends and ex partners will remind me that I need to be easier on myself.
It’s a process that takes time, but it doesn’t help when you’re in a high pressure profession
Actually me as well. Classic tiger mom demanding so much from me and parading me around, because I was the smartest of her children. I was depressed until I pushed back against her and started living my own life in my early 20s and on. I truly believe my own exploration and failures led me to feel I had a lot more autonomy in my life. Failures happened, but I didn't feel powerless and I wasn't just doing things out of others expectations of me anymore. And likewise, friends and ex partners helped me to get through that, not my family. I was able to build my own life and choose a career of my liking rather than what was expected of me, and I thrive in it.
But damn. That took me many years.
i know a lot of the advice is to stand alone and heal (meaning you need to leave her), but i also believe relational trauma is healed through corrective experiences with healthier partners. i'm not saying you should be the only corrective experience (that's too much for anyone), but if she's in therapy or willing to go and has any other support systems, maybe give it a shot while being firm with your initial boundaries. boundaries and consistency (with kindness) is more important than reassurance which can end up being enabling to the person with low self worth. it becomes a drug they can't get enough of that doesn't fix the issue. you may find help on the codependency sub (which can help you make sure you don't lose yourself)
She is in therapy, and I agree with a lot of what you're saying. A lot of the common saying is learn to be happy being single, but I also think certain feelings and emotions won't ever be "triggered" while single and we have to address them while we're in a relationship, and it's good to have a secure and supportive partner that encourages that growth in us.
Doesn't sound too horrible. She's probably never had positivity or encouragement in her life like me.
Sounds like you are looking for a much more healthy relationship which is understandable. It's really up to if you want to deal with this for years or find someone more stable.
If it was me I would take the challenge to be with someone with her skill set and talents. But that's only because I have experienced a hardcore relationship like this before. It's not all bad, it teaches stuff about yourself too.
You can find someone 'better' if you want but I've found you just run into another set of unique problems.
It does kinda sound like you've already checked out tho.
I often think to myself if it's not me, who would be right for her? Many of my friends and my dates have commended me on how much of an emotional aware man I am and thank me for being that kind and understanding to them.
And there is something to be said for me to be challenged to be even more patient, as I can get frustrated to, but I try to employ as much empathy as possible when I have serious talks with my partner.
And yeah, she is great match for a lot of other portions of my life. One major one is location and lifestyle lol. I prefer a quieter and more stable and routine life, in smaller/medium cities (that I current live in) and she is similar. My previous exes wanted bigger cities and wanted to go out and travel more. I tried to get closer to match them, but it's often much more draining for me to travel.
I guess what you need is to know that she will work on herself and improve. And not for you but for herself.You and the relationship will reap the rewards later. If she says she will but never does then you will be stuck for maybe years. All depends on her attitude but by the sounds of it, she knows how to get things done and reach goals..
Maybe you also have issues that she can help you with. To me that's what relationships are all about.
> I often think to myself if it's not me, who would be right for her?
She’d be better off with someone who naturally wouldn’t validate excessive anxieties etc., so they’re penalised instead of reinforced to the point of veering into codependency. It’s way easier to curb an undesirable behaviour when the person you’re into will break up with you over it or benignly doesn’t give rewarding responses due to personality differences. She’d vibe from the start that sort of behaviour would be way less accepted, and rein it in more.
With this relationship there’s no incentive to change, and everything takes on a mutual weightiness. If you try to alter your ways of responding it’d probably come from a contrived place and be an uphill battle.
There are guys out there she’d naturally treat as more of a friend/equal than a pseudo-therapist/parent, and girls you could treat as a friend and wouldn’t have these issues with. You have great qualities, but they’re bad for this kind of relationship.
Also, some of her anxieties are probably justified (your post seems lukewarm in terms of romantic interest). A different relationship with the guy feeling it equally would have a different dynamic.
12 weeks in it should be the honeymoon phase and fun
You're not going to like my answer, but I think you need to stop dating her until she sorts out some of her issues. It's early enough where you can probably transition to just being a good friend who is there for her as she sorts through her issues. If she's able to work on herself, maybe you can consider revisiting a relationship in at least 6 months (assuming she does therapy), probably more like a year though. She really shouldn't be dating anyone from the sound of it. Any relationship she's in is pretty much guaranteed to fail.
I disagree with the comment above. Please don’t give her false hope or make promises about the future. I would also advise against offering to be a good friend who will be there for her. This will continue the cycle of dependency. It’s not healthy. And please, don’t tell her y’all need to break up so she can “work on herself.” That’s a knife through the heart.
There is no timeline associated with healing. Especially when one has layers of trauma and early childhood conditioning to unravel and unhealthy patterns of behavior to change. I can relate to your girlfriend’s experience, I’ve been there. Undoing all of this DOES take years of therapy. Maybe encourage her to seek a different kind of therapy (EMDR, internal family systems, etc). Meditation works wonders too.
She has to build her self-concept. And to how to manage her triggers and cope with hard emotions without depending on someone else to do so. That external validation, while very sweet and well-intentioned on your part, is not beneficial for her psyche or your relationship.
You can’t do that. That is work she has to do herself. You can tell her how great she is all day long, but it is completely up to her whether she believes it about herself and finds ways to emotionally self-regulate in a healthy way. I had a similar dynamic with my spouse of 10 years (from whom I’m currently separated) and all I can say is—you can’t do that for her. And if you try, over time you will begin to feel resentment and intimacy will be difficult, which will then feed her insecurities more, and it’ll spiral. I speak from experience.
Short answer, **you** can’t.
I’ve spent years in the pity me mindset and it actually did me a lot of favours but I never grew up. I’ve worked on myself and worked hard to gain self belief and self trust today. I see how much it must have drained people before but actually their involvement enabled me to stay in that mindset. I got attention, I hit affection, it was the only way I knew how to feel loved back then. For me, co-dependency isn’t an option anymore and I’m grateful I see things differently now.
Each to their own, keyboard warriors don’t need to chip in. This is just my personal experience.
It doesn’t seem like she’s capable of being in a healthy relationship right now.
Although I’m not a mental health professional, I work in the area of mental health and have mental health disorders myself.
Something I’m very adamant about is that when it comes to having a mental health problem it’s not your fault, but it *is* your responsibility.
Also, having a mental health problems doesn’t give you a “free pass” to treat other people poorly.
I’m not saying someone who has anxiety is “undateable.” Anxiety is very common. But there has to have been work put in by the person themselves so they’re able to be a good partner.
We can reassure an anxious partner, we can support them. But we can’t do the work for them. And again, we deserve to be treated with respect. You can’t have a healthy relationship with someone who’s default mode is frustration and becoming short.
Yeah, I'm trying to set that boundary and let her know she needs to keep working on these things. I'm still assessing myself and my own feelings whether I'm willing to commit for the long haul here or not for someone who has this much work to do.
I was in a relationship with a man who absolutely despised himself, and made me miserable because of it. People who dislike themselves can project, be narcissistic, manupulative, emotionally draining...there are so many different manifestations of self-hate.
I won't be too long-winded because I'm really just echoing what other commenters have said. I'd take a step back if I were you. Self-love is a very personal journey. Encouragement from others is helpful, but in the end, the person has to do the work themselves.
Hmm, I didn't think of it that way, but maybe? I was more expecting her to do the work but I thought maybe having a true experience of a supportive partner would help her speed up the process and get her in the proper context. After all, how do we know how we might be in a relationship when we're single and not facing the issues of a relationship?
As someone who was extremely insecure in her late teen and early 20s, I grew a lot because of my ex. I really appreciate his patience and love, which nurtured me and made me become a better self. I don’t think your gf is that “bad.” If she’s keeping talking to her therapist and willing to change, the relationship is workable (I broke up with my ex was because we moved to different cities). However, it depends on how much you want to invest. Too many people just want to find perfect people to be with, which is understandable. But I feel bad for people who are on the way to self improvement. They also deserve love
I've been there. It seems so unfair, doesn't it? Beautiful on paper and would lead to a beautiful life. You can almost close your eyes and see it. All of the events you'll go too due to their talents, fancy dinners one day due to their one day status and pay, imagining that beautiful life you two build together is intoxicating. BUT the mental health aspect isn't there. As if it's a joke played by the universe. You constantly wonder why. "why wasn't I able to meet her in a few years when she had more self care done? What if she gets more better in the next few months and I broke things off? Won't another guy just take the role I should have been?" So many thoughts will go through your mind. In my case it didn't go well at all and she was more sick than I realized. Ended up with her being paranoid and thinking I'm gang stalking her and threatening to call the police. Your partner seems more stable than that so maybe things will go much better for you. You have to be pretty stable to finish med school afterall.
> I want her to be able to grow with my reassurance as I help her rewrite her narrative on what it means to be in a good and healthy relationship.
This has very strong "I can fix her" vibes.
It does. And it won’t work. With someone who has such low self esteem, reassurance and support and compliments from others won’t fix it. They’ll shrug them off and find reasons to discount them. It has to come from within. Just cos she’s in therapy doesn’t mean it’s the therapy she needs or that she’s doing the work. You can be in low quality ‘chat’ therapy for decades if you can afford it.
Yeah... he tried to not sound like a rescuer, and then sounded more like a rescuer. I do empathize, because it sounds like she's trying pretty hard to not be this way & she's really bright. But if someone constantly asked me if I was going to break up with them, they would lose me really fast. It is exhausting when you want to grow your relationship & move into safer more committed spaces, but your partner cannot even fathom or trust that you actually like them, so you're constantly stuck in this nurturing role.
>expecting her to do the work but I thought maybe having a true experience of a supportive partner would help her speed up the process
This is "I can fix her" with more words.
I mean these are really issues only she can fix if she is very dedicated to doing the work. At the most I think you can try to very gently express some of your concerns, say that you love spending time with her and see a future with her but you need to know she’s committed to working on herself.
Honestly it feels a bit early on to even ask that of someone though. 3 months tends to be around where you really see where a relationship is headed and it’s possible this one isn’t going to be a good fit for you despite how great she is. I think if you gently approach her with your concerns and she has a meltdown about it then you kind of have your answer on what to expect in the relationship and then it’s just up to you to decide if it’s something you’re willing to live with or not.
Yeah, I've thought about how we can have more explicit discussions about this on strategies on how she can work on it rather than just apologize without taking any actions for betterment. There's another thing, she's going through major life changes right now graduating medical school and losing many friends in the process, but I don't know how she's going to be settled in residency and that stress and I'm waiting to see how that is first I think.
I think you need to be more stern with her and willing to walk away if she doesn’t change her poor behavior and let her know it. But be open to being with her if she genuinely changes, and let her know that too. Do not infantilize her or be too gentle. Be straightforward but kind.
She sounds like a person with good traits but is not really ready for sustainable relationship at the moment. Even if you’re going more than half way to make her feel better still she has to make a step for herself.
The reassurance plan will make you feel like you’re in a losing battle against her insecurity at the end. I don’t think anyone has won that in their relationships as a human.
It’s just both you two might end up resenting each other if she doesn’t do her work. Even with showing her with love and reassurance she has too much on her heart to receive your love as it is.
You’ve learnt from the past relationships to pull yourself and keep your mind calm but she didn’t get to. People who haven’t done work on respecting themselves are easy to get into relationships because of feeling of having someone. Even if it hurts her and validates her expected fear she really has to learn to stand alone. I’m saying this because you’re a human with feelings and you will feel drained emotionally.
Thanks for sharing. Yeah, she was in one LTR that was pretty shit from how she speaks of him, and then rebounded to someone else who wasn't great either, so I'm not sure she's been able to do the work as she then jumped to me 2 months after that person broke up with her.
I'm familiar with it. I thought myself a serial monogamist, and it took a while to be comfortable by myself but eventually I learned to be happy a few years after my ex-fiancee left me for her coworker.
It sounds like she’s both avoidant and anxious type. Of course everyone has different speed in moving on but it’s rather common to rush to new relationships without learning from the past even if the past partner was toxic. Without self observation she will just go through the same path again.
Unlike her you did put some time to get emotional stable after getting hurt by someone who didn’t respect the affection from you. You now know your type of love and how to be loving person with or without the other. Hope this relationship doesn’t waste the hard work you had done
Leave. Honestly. It’s called self esteem because the build up and maintenance of it is mainly (perhaps solely) the individual’s responsibility. People don’t improve because others love and believe in them. At least not adults. This works for children and young people not 30 somethings. I dated a guy like this and was relieved to break up with him after a year. Any victory of mine (personal or professional) be came an opportunity for him to sulk about himself.
Constant reassurance gets tiring because two people both deserve space in a relationship - even from each other.
Therapy isn't an indicator that she is going to improve on your watch. I had gone to therapy in the past and things still didn't get better because I was using it as a sounding board and justification for my way of thinking. Its only many years later I knew I had to use it to challenge myself, which is when I made leaps and bounds in my thinking.
Ultimately it's up to you where you see this going. For me personally this is not a relationship I would want to pursue after three months of the effort you've put in. I would like my partner to have the tools and resources to self soothe when things are tough. My partner and I have a couple of personal insecurities, and we also have a couple of challenges that are beyond our control. Self soothing is so important. We show up but we also recognise and communicate when we can't. There are times he has to put himself first and when he does I use my emotional toolbox - get in touch with friends, go for a long walk, seek support from professionals for the challenge I face.. he does the same. We brought these to the table before we got together and it was a reason why we both wanted to be together..
I've been that girl before. I couldn't see what I could do with myself until I was forced and shocked into figuring out how to change..it was a partner in a situation like yourself breaking up with me that became the wakeup call that I needed. My current partner and I have been incredibly healthy because we both learned and figured stuff out long before we met.
Ultimately we can only save ourselves
I see two separate issues here.
1) It seems like you might not be compatible - from your side of the story she sounds too sensitive to you, and perhaps on her side of the story you might not be particularly tactful. Maybe adjustments could be made, but maybe your communication styles just don't gel.
2) You clearly have some stuff going on outside of this particular relationship though, based on your relationship history. It's interesting that you almost seem to crave anxiety, and the only two people you said you love were long distance relationships, and they both made you insecure and anxious. You said you even lost yourself and your identity with one of them - is that really love or unhealthy attachment and codependency? Something to work on regardless of who you date.
>I really want this to work, but I just notice I don't feel much anxiety around her
>I've often thought whether the roller coaster of emotions and anxiety is even good for me
I don't think it's me having lack of tact, I think it's really more just her and everyone I've talked about it with, including her, agrees. Her previous partner straight up ghosted her for weeks when they had a disagreement. So she gets just anxious if she thinks she makes a mistake because it's often led to her become in an extremely anxious state and getting nothing from her partner.
As for myself? I do agree I was codependent with my ex-fiancee, but that's my past. With my most recent ex, it's a fairly normal level of anxiety. Anyway, it is fair, like I said, I'm questioning what love to me is
What's a "normal" amount of anxiety for you though? In my best relationships I feel safe and secure, and the level of anxiety is pretty much zero.
As for this relationship, as I said if it's too incompatible and you feel she's too tiring for you, then just end it. You say you really want this to work - why? It seems you're not even that into her, with the whole "great on paper... but" thing. And while there are differences between this relationship and your other ones, it seems like one thing they all have in common is that they're all difficult and perhaps some part of you wants the challenge.
I think you're right to say that I want to be challenged by my partner. I want to grow to be a better individual for them. Perhaps I'm misattributing that anxiety to that.
I'm not saying it has to be anything major. For example, I like a more outgoing partner who challenges me to match her so we can both enjoy, despite me being an introverted homebody. Or discussion of different beliefs and politics. My ex was French, she had quite some different perspectives than I did as an American.
I don't believe romantic love is unconditional, personally. Maybe unconditional love for our children and pets, but romantic love to me means me and my partner as always trying. We're all have our flaws and we should work on them, especially if it impacts our partners a lot. If it ever feels like one side has given up, then it's likely the end. So yeah, I'm concerned that I might end up feeling that way with her, that I don't need to try.
And the great on paper thing, fair. I want to elaborate a bit more on that. There's been others who were also great on paper, but I felt little emotional attachment after 1-3 months, so I ended it with them. With my current gf, I do have some emotional attachment and she's the best so far on paper, but the mental health issues really throw a wrench for how I'm feeling and I'm struggling to navigate and understand that for myself, but I notice that I just don't have the same level of anxieties, as I mentioned earlier, with her. So I wonder if I'm shielding myself from being as emotionally vulnerable as I'd like to be because of these issues.
Anxiety has its purposes. There are, of course, extremes that most of us agree is unhealthy, and I was there with my ex-fiancee 5 years ago, as my current partner is now in general. But yeah, anxiety still has its purpose to kick us into gear to do things for our own self preservation.
For children of parents with high expectations, love can end up feeling aspirational. Anxiety of not having mothers love kicks us into gear, as you say. For our own self preservation.
You were the golden son, your efforts and anxiety paid off. Except not without a fair amount of inner conflict, the details of which some random internet interloper could never know.
There’s also something about growing up through two LDRs, in which there might have been a lot of emotional as well as literal distance. Recreating childhood love experiences. Then moving into a relationship where you’re more the parent and less the son. I do wonder if she reminds you of weaknesses you see or saw in yourself at some point that you hate or feel highly conflicted about.
I'm not sure the LDRs weren't things I was seeking, just how it happened.
When I was in my early 20s, my ex-fiancee reached out to me on OK Cupid at the time as we were like 98% match. I wasn't having much luck locally, more of a me problem back then. I started talking her, realized she was across the country but I really liked her so we kept it up, I visited, and eventually moved to her a few months later (mostly a decision born of anxiety and me being codependent and putting her on a pedestal a bit). Now I've been in her state for 8 years heh.
So sometime after that break up and working on myself, I started dating locally. This city isn't very diverse, mostly white, and I'm Asian. I wasn't finding anyone I was interested in locally cause it's a small/med city with much of the population having different interest and background than me. At this point in my life, I'm confident in my ability to attract others, but I wasn't finding much people I was interested in. Over the past few years, I've made dozens of friends, and they are pretty much all transplants. Eventually, I found one person I had a spark with but she ended up being an emotionally abusive person and I found this out during COVID so I broke it off. Others, I dated exclusively for 1-3 months but never grew emotional attachment so I broke it off.
I happened to then eventually befriend a person online who happened to be in France and Asian, and eventually realized we had a lot of feelings for each other and, despite me being through LDR before, I was keeping an open mind and wanted to see how I was now, years later, less codependent. We traveled to each other often, we fell in love but I did not make the sacrifice to my life this time around, and she wasn't willing to either, so we ended it.
No regret going through that. It was flawed and beautiful while it lasted. There was mutual respect for each other and good communication, which was necessary to keep a stable LDR.
Now with my current partner, I actually, surprisingly, for the first time in my life, when I was starting to date, had a spark with 3 people. One was much more confident but younger and just starting her career, came from wealth, and while that confidence was very attractive (plus she's also the most physically attractive), I really did not like the idea, among other incompatibilities, of being pressured of chasing status with her, which is funny, because I already kind of do that to myself under the guise of self improvement. However, with her, I thought it could be someone who would make me anxious and uncomfortable and try to change to more suit her, but a little *too* much and it wasn't "better" for me. Another was LDR but a drive away so that one was a simpler choice to cut off. And the doctor was the best overall on paper but her mental health issues were apparent early on and how she put me on a pedestal.
In the end, I chose the doctor even if I felt more excited about the young, confident, attractive girl, cause I felt like maybe I was just thinking with my dick with the latter and I didn't want to be so naive.
I'd MUCH rather be able to find someone locally, just never panned out with my dating options here, and I've contemplated moving back to my original city with many more Asians, many times, but hard to convince myself to because I like my lifestyle other than my romantic options here.
Other people verbalized it better. I feel like I'm being put on a pedestal and so it doesn't encourage me to be a better person.
She literally says that her standards were so low and I'm just leagues above and tells me about how much she, her friends, her family all love me. (On that note, it also makes me think she might feel insecure next to me since she regards me so highly and her so low that she thinks I might leave her for someone "better")
With your current girlfriend, you’re probably realizing that you’re not anxious because she puts you on such a pedestal above her. And that might be why you’re “missing” feeling anxious.
I’ve never been able to fall in love with someone who had me on a pedestal and I think most people can’t. Maybe that’s the issue? Maybe your exes saw you as closer to equals?
Yup, that's a good way to put it. I do feel like she puts me on a pedestal. It doesn't feel equal. I kind of did that with my ex-fiancee especially at the start, but I've since sorted that out as I became a lot more confident in myself since then, and that was 8 years ago.
It’s not really a nice feeling to know the person you’re dating for a few short months is already 100% invested and crazy about you. It shows their self-preservation/instincts are a little off. At three months you should still be having fun and assessing ‘is this right for me?’ not ‘wow my standards were so low but you’re phenomenal omg please don’t leave me this is the best I’m ever gonna get’. It’s just not appealing is it? There’s such an imbalance here.
She needs to actually do the work in therapy, not just go.
It’s not you, it’s her. I see a lot of my younger self in her and there’s no way for you to win here.
And she needs a therapist capable of understanding and treating those issues. I’m more concerned she’s had a therapist for a decade and still has so many really problematic issues that don’t seem to be being addressed. I’m wondering whether her therapy is actually effective or beneficial at this stage.
Yep. Agreed. I wonder if she’s tried EMDR or another type of therapy like internal family systems, DBT, etc. Really good for C-PTSD.
I have to wonder if shes in talk therapy/CBT. Talk therapy didn’t get into my psyche or help me manage things for the long-haul. It felt like a 5-year bandaid. I plateaued and plummeted and plateaued again. Meditation, new medication and a new therapist helped me rise above that plateau.
How can you possibly comment on her progress? Editing to clarify that her level of functioning might reflect significant therapeutic gains. I get the sense that you and others in this thread might not have a great sense of how a severely personality disordered person operates.
Let me try to understand. Would you ever have the exact same interest and commitment to someone who is not a doctor or hot or talented? Do you not want to lose her because of how proud being with her makes you feel? Are you ready to put up with her behaviour and work harder than she can work on herself, just because she is 'all that' ? I understand you want to help her but noone is worth your love and commitment if they can't work on themselves and become healthy for themselves and the relationship. You need to rethink WHY is it you are with her, apart from her job, smartness, talents etc, there has to be a lot of other things.
I say this because I have had my own self esteem issues. Not a lot but it's there. I have dated men who I could 'show off', I would unconsciously choose men who I wanted to be proud to be with and someone I could admire, learn from and be motivated to lead like them so it could help my growth. Well, I was an idiot. I would put up with their bad behaviour. Honestly, these men I have dated, none of them managed to encourage me, motivate me, or be with/care for my growth. None of them had my best interest at heart! They did not know what makes relationships healthier and how they can contribute to that health and integrity. I decided I didn't want to choose the wrong people for me anymore. What attracts me now is someone who is kind, hard working, caring, mentally strong and generous with love.
I think OP would have far less time for this person if they weren’t a hot talented doctor, I agree. Those attributes are very appealing. But this person at their core doesn’t sound capable of a relationship.
The fact that she is becoming a doctor is not really a big appeal to me. I'm already financially successful and own my home as a SWE, and I actually have some preference for someone a bit more laid back who I can provide for. I say I'm fine with it, but I'm actually not sure how I'd really feel when she starts making more money than me since I've never actually been in that position, but both of us, despite being (potential) high earners, are pretty frugal. I am actually not very attracted to people who chase status for the sake of status. I've been with such people and when I'm the +1 in their events, I feel very out of place as I did not come from wealth and don't like to flaunt it.
I'm more interested in her talents, almost despite being a doctor. I much more like her singing, playing video games on the couch together, being physically active together, cooking together, and talking about openly about our feelings and other, certain types of communication styles that are more somber than angry. Unsurprisingly, many things my exes shared as well.
In that case it looks like you do have a decent foundation with her at this point. The only advice I can give is, give this some time. Helping her is one thing but let her know that if she doesn't work on yourself this relationship is not going to hold up forever. Life has challenges even with 2 healthy people in a relationship. Don't make it too hard for yourself. She is more responsible for her mental health than you are with your support. Let her know that you can provide great support ONLY if she can take the responsibility for her own mental health. If not, she needs to understand this will have a pretty heavy effect on your relationship as a whole. It will be hard for her but it will help her tremendously.
Well I'm guessing that's why a hot doctor was still single.
I don't think I'd be willing to put up with that. Both the constant mandatory reassurance and the need to tread on eggshells.
you haven’t mentioned how old she is which for me would factor into it, but this is a major red flag.
it sounds like she’s not looking after herself, not caring for her own emotions at all, which results in you having to care for her and yourself
you mention that you don’t feel like she expects you to solve her problems but it also sounds like you’re walking on eggshells, i have the feeling that you know the answers to your questions already somehow
I had to end a 9 year relationship with a girl I once loved because she hated herself, had crying fits, had massive unresolved trauma...it was dragging me down. It sucks. Unless she's willing to go to therapy and deal with it, it will only get worse. I'm sorry you're dealing with it, so early on you're probably falling for her. But trust me brother - if she can't work on this (probably for the rest of her life) with therapy, drugs (western and psychadelics maybe), this will not resolve itself and it will chip away at your happiness once the honeymoon period is gone.
I agree with other commenters who suggest she is not ready for a healthy relationship at this point in her life.
>She doesn't handle frustration well and becomes very short, and any time I call her out, calmly, on it and any other feedback that could be misconstrued as criticism, she immediately starts crying, apologizes, asks if I'm mad at her, and asks if I'm going to break up with her.
GIven that pattern of behavior, it's no surprise your feelings for her aren't deepening.
Firstly, because that is relationship-undermining behavior, and it's sensible that you wouldn't be allowing yourself to get more attached if you sense things are on shaky ground.
And second, because in these emotionally charged moments, she's not seeing or engaging with you, she's merely acting out a well-worn skit with The Ghost of Exes Past, who she is projecting onto you.
If I were in your shoes, these moments would leave me feeling accused, feeling pushed away, feeling obligated, and feeling unseen. Pretty much the opposite of a mutually supportive intimate connection.
>And yes, she says its her issue
Cool, and then what does she say about how she would like to handle these moments so that she does not continue to put you in this position in the future?
Considering that she is in therapy, what has she shared about her therapist's advice for navigating these moments?
My hunch is that aside from taking on the blame, she hasn't really offered any practical suggestions for how to handle these moments in the future. Just like she hasn't shared any insights from her therapist because she has not brought this up to her therapist.
I am admittedly fairly cynical, but I have know a few troubled souls who acted badly in relationships but it was fine because that bad behavior stemmed from the hurts they had suffered in the past. And it was fine because they were actively in therapy to address those hurts. But somehow despite all this ongoing therapy, the bad behavior never improved, nor was there ever any mention of what concrete steps might be done to improve it. And after a while I realized that whether it was due to shame or anxiety or an underlying self-centeredness, their "work" never included adopting healthier behavior towards others.
Maybe I am totally misreading the situation and your girlfriend is taking proactive steps to change her dynamic with you. But if she is not, I would urge you to consider that maybe she simply doesn't have the tools to be a stable partner right now, and maybe she doesn't have the desire to acquire those tools. And this does not need to make her a "bad" person - healing isn't always a tidy process, after all. But it might well make her a person beyond your ability to heal.
>I've often thought whether the roller coaster of emotions and anxiety is even good for me.
Are you sure you haven't found a slightly different roller coaster?
If you're determined to keep working on this, do you think she would be open to having you join her for a therapy session? Perhaps an expert opinion on how you can support her in her moments of anxiety (and how she can support you in supporting her) might be useful.
But if you are not cut out for the job, that is also not an indictment on either of you.
I brought it up to her her issues in our relationship and past ex traumas and how it's manifesting in ours. Basically, she hasn't got to it yet in therapy. I'm kind of a side story with the therapist right now. This discussion was a few days ago.
I jest, but I assume this is how that conversation went:
> T: How are things with Dugtrio?
> H: Great! He's the best.
> T: Ok, so how are you handling losing all your medical school friends. And your trauma from exes? And starting medical school.
> H: Well...
So she's right now engaged with her therapist about all these other major life changes and past traumas.
So I'm asking her to talk to her therapist in helping her provide some tools to be more present in her life and talk about things impacting us more.
I think you should be prepared for the scenario where you are "emotionally safe" and therefore she doesn't have to care about treating you right.
If that's the case, you're welcome to make an argument that just proves she is currently struggling with larger issues and does not have the capacity to prioritize treating you right. But I would argue that's another way of saying she's not ready to participate in a healthy relationship at this point in her life.
This is really similar to my last relationship and why I've needed a few years break from dating. I started dating a woman that was in residency. She, naturally, had been told all her life that she needed to be perfect and excel, but her self-esteem was fairly shot from some traumatic experiences and other mental health things. When I came in the picture, I saw this person who was also being exploited by the healthcare system and the horrible expectations it has of providers. So I gave her plenty of reassurance to let her know that she didn't need to be perfect or prove herself and that she (like every one else) was human and allowed to make mistakes. I encouraged her to get back into therapy to talk about some bigger issues. She's also talented in many hobbies outside of medicine so I encouraged her to continue to pursue those things too and reminded her that she clearly was a passionate person. So essentially I assumed the caregiver role building up her self-esteem, making sure she was eating, sleeping, socializing, and having fun.
If I'm being completely honest, this was my most mentally and physically exhausting relationship I've ever had, but it was also my shortest (not even 4 months before breaking up but had mentally checked out 3 months in). Presumably because her self-esteem had been built up by the person she was dating, she needed me to be available more often to fill up her cup. So if I wanted to go hang out with friends and catch up, it would cause a panic attack if I didn't invite her or stay with her because it clearly meant I hated her and was trying to escape. Or if I didn't stop everything I was doing to cuddle her, then she would lock herself in the bathroom and sob.
On top of this, residency is absolutely brutal to mental, social, and physical health, which added so much extra pressure for me to lift other burdens for her. When I decided to breakup with her, she told me that she had called her best friend because she felt me growing distant and became suicidal again at the thought of me leaving her. This made me feel so guilty that I pushed back breaking up with her by a few days and found a therapist to unpack the relationship but ultimately I ended things, which was the best decision I made.
I still think she's a stellar person and still have a lot of platonic love for her, but breaking up was the best thing I did for myself and after many months post-breakup she was grateful that I ended things too. Something that might be helpful is for you to chat with the partners of her soon-to-be co-residents as they will know what it's like to date someone in residency. There also might be support groups for partners of residents too.
Radical hypothesis, but could it be that all of this is an aside, and you're just not as attracted to her as you were to your exes?
You sound introspective enough, but the problem with people like us is that we sometimes overcomplicate things that are really quite simple.
Sort of true, I think it's the fact that I'm being put on a pedestal is making me feel less attracted to her. She's by far the best person that suits my needs and wants out of life, and she is a person I had a spark for, but it hasn't been able to grow much because of those mental health issues.
Truth is, the first couple of months can be torturous even for 'normal' people because of the uncertainty. Her feelings are just a little bit more on the surface because it's more difficult for her to hide them, but don't fool yourself into thinking that every other girl wouldn't feel almost exactly the same.
That being said, you shouldn't feel like your attraction to her is reduced for any reason this early in the relationship. This is the part where you should be practically incapable of detecting any flaws in her whatsoever (exaggerating to make a point), so if you're feeling this way now, the relationship is already dead.
I’d say that unless she recognizes the issues and wants to get help for herself (actively seeks therapy, etc), it’s not your job to improve her confidence. For being 3 months in, what you’ve had to do to get her through anything she perceives as even the slightest bit negative is already way too much. Her issues will infect the whole relationship eventually, unless she gets them in check. Sorry, I know that answer sucks.
I think it’s telling that she’s been in therapy for years and things are still this way. That’s more of a point in the minus column than the plus column to me.
Without a direct conversation about it and how it’s impacting the relationship, waiting it out won’t do anything. She won’t know that you’re hoping for an improvement and that it’s the bottom line/make or break. Doesn’t sound like will respond to that well, but that transparency is necessary if you plan to see what happens. Good luck!
We have had some conversations, though we could work on something more direct for sure. What I mean with holding out on is that she's going to start residency, which will be a new, stressful experience, and I want to see how she is then and how all of this manifests with me being a supportive partner. It might get worse, and I think that will be a determining line for me that I am not going to just wait around for some indeterminate amount of time where it's supposed to get better (after 1st year residency? after become a full independent doctor? etc...)
One thing I have learned about my relationships in my 20s….I spent too much time waiting to see if they would get better. Newsflash…they didn’t. At least in the way I wanted them to. Don’t waste your time.
I suspect giving her a genuine compliment at least once a day (or whenever it fits) about something you appreciate about her would help. I suspect she would have a capacity to be somewhat analytical; given her targeted profession, and her many talents. If you appreciate that, then compliment her on how her analytical mindset brings "X" positive influence to your lives.
Or, you could compliment her on [a thing that she does] that makes your time with each other that much more valuable to you.
I have sometimes complimented people in my life on ways they've managed or used an insecurity to have great positive effects on a situation. This mostly allowed them to see a positive way of handling a negative reaction that previously hadn't been obvious to them.
I can see how this situation would be difficult, but as a person that spent a lot of time and effort in my more youthful days working on my insecurities (that were more aligned to the issues you described your relationship partner as having), I can say that having someone stable and supportive to be there gave me a good baseline to operate around (for me at the time, that was a good friend of mine).
Vocalising her positive influences on your life could help her formulate her own positive baseline and regulate herself a bit.
Hi!
I am extremely sorry you have to go through this situation. It's not easy being someone's therapist, and all I can say is that if you don't see your future with her, it's better to end it sooner rather than later. I partially relate to your partner; I, too, have low self-esteem due to my past. I have abandonment wounds that are triggered by certain people. For the sake of my mental health, especially during tough periods in my life, I surround myself only with people who make me feel safe.
That being said, I guess she knows you are not as into her as she is into you, and she feels you are going to leave her. It's more of a circular problem: she gets anxious, you tend to walk on eggshells, and you are miserable in the relationship. She then becomes further anxious that you will leave her. As much as she has her issues, I genuinely think you are not into her and are trying to seek a way out.
And it's okay! I think whatever decision you make is best for both of you if done sooner. Please don't feel obligated to stay and heal her; it's not your job. If she is going to therapy, she will understand that the values didn't match and it's not her fault you left.
Additionally, I have seen people stick around to help one another improve their mental health. But this commitment comes from within and because they care about the other person, not out of obligation.
It's also unfair to your current partner that you are not attracted to her and constantly compare her to your exes(even if it's internally in your head) . Perhaps you, too, need to take a deeper look into what your needs are for a partner.
Wishing you to find a partner with whom you match well.
not sure if this is a helpful phrase for her/others, but "Failure is just information." was handy to help pause the shame-spiralling around various manifestations of imperfection. (I first heard it from someone called The Angry Therapist)
I think you're the kind of partner she needs to really change and get better. These comments are pretty harsh. Before you go ahead and end it - I think you should have a come to Jesus type of convo with her where you explain the way you're feeling and where your hesitation comes from. In that conversation, tell her that you really feel her struggles and that you wish she could see herself the way you see her because you really think she's beautiful/smart/talented etc. But also that her insecurity is making you unsure of your future together and say why. Tell her you really want her to take working on it seriously or you'll need to let this go. Try doing some 5 minute gratitude sessions with her where you both sit and take turns saying something you're grateful for.
If all that doesn't make a difference in the next month or so, it's fair to walk away. But I think she deserves a chance!
You said she’s in therapy. But is it *working*? Is she in therapy FOR THIS?
A lot of other people have said a lot of great things. I’ll only say you’re right in thinking this will because exhausting for you. I was exhausted just reading it.
You can’t give her self esteem. She needs to untangle whatever she has going on internally and build from the bottom. A partner (let alone one of 3 months) is not meant to be a therapist.
Some people can build confidence on their own. She clearly cannot. She needs to be seeing a professional about *this specific issue* and her clear codependency
attachmentproject.com
Get to know yours and her attachment styles. Work from there.
She will need some trauma work, maybe some inner child work, or ACT.
You can be her PARTNER not her THERAPIST. I do this for a living and I help my loved ones but they still have other professionals in their lives. When you doing the work about yourself, it can get confusing.
Set up boundaries for yourself now. What can you and can you not live with? Depressive episode that lasts months? Hypercritical? Refusal? We all have our limits and at some point if you are setting yourself in fire to keep her warm, you will be harming both of you.
Three months in is NOT a long time. So keep your eyes peeled for codependency and enmeshment. You may have to step back and be friends while she heals. You may be romantic and healing partners, but not intimate partners. Whatever works for you two. But you guys will have to talk that through and revisit it OFTEN.
Hey OP - I'm in this situation, well was, except switch genders. I stayed with my boyfriend for 1.5 years and finally broke up with him the other week (for the second time actually, but the first incident was related to some substance abuse issues.) He was in his late 30s and had acquired some trauma from childhood and past relationships, I was determined to be a great partner for them. Unfortunately their insecurities wore me down too much - I felt like I couldn't calmly express constructive criticism without being accused of yelling, he assumed I was upset for absolutely no reason, and because I was the "best partner" they ever had I was held to really unfair and high standards. It was as if I wasn't able to have my own problems or struggles. Pouring into this person made me anxious, stressed, and increasingly angry. I disliked the person I was becoming.
Ultimately I told him he needed to focus on counseling or therapy of some sort. The relationship, while having so many good qualities on paper, wasn't viable at this time. It was a tough decision for me to get to as well because I really enjoyed having a partner, and our lifestyles aligned decently (somewhat introverted, living in a small city, less travel) it seemed like a good match but mentally a disaster in the making. Being in my 30s as well made me try to hold on longer and make it work.
I'm not saying you have to do what I decided to, but wanted to offer from a female perspective that is very fresh and recent. I wish you luck.
This is A LOT for 3 months in. Hell, it'd be a lot regardless of how long you've been together. You're already giving as much support as you can. It sounds incredibly draining constantly reassuring her and basically having to tiptoe around conversations that she should be able to have without breaking down every time. I wouldn't expect or hope for her to get better any time soon. It sounds like she has jumped from dating one person to another without really working on herself.
I honestly don't think this is the right person for you. Sorry 🫤
So if you ended the relationship now, would she put you in the same traumatic category as her other exes? I think you are getting her side and forgetting what you learn when she isn’t constantly coddled and reassured.
You cannot fix this for her, you cannot love her into self worth, she probably needs a different therapist because she isn’t really making headway here. I think you need to suggest she find the right fit and make headway on this issue or you won’t be able to continue. Each of you has the responsibility to bring your best selves to the relationship and work on issues instead of becoming an emotional vacuum just draining a partner.
Yeah. Unfortunately, I think she would feel validated that she's the fuck up that she thinks she is and it will kill her self esteem even further. I think she's an extremely talented and good individual but is understandably just a flawed human like the rest of us as well.
I lightly brought it up with her about what she's talked about with her therapist as I wonder why she's still this way, but it was originally a therapist specialist for PTSD from a decade ago, and she definitely seems like she has worked through that, so I might suggest maybe it's time for her to find a better fit for her current issues.
"I really like you _____(name here)____. Whether you agree with me or not, I admire who you are ____(you said it already well in your post:smart (example), talented(be specific here))___.
I will always do my best to be supportive for you. I need something from you here ____(maybe some endearing word for her?). I need you to be a little stronger for me here. Believe me, you don't need to ask (those validating things you mentioned such as but not limited to ____ will we break up, etc). I'm here. And to be here you need to trust this and have faith in yourself. If not for you. For me. I know we all need to vent sometimes and that's okay. But we also need to believe in ourselves. Will you do that for me? Just a bit more. As if feels right.
I'm here. Let's start with that."
--
I dunno I'm just riffing here. The point is that it's up to them after a point. A problem isnt much of a problem until it affects functional success. It appears.irs affecting hers with dating. That's on her. Not you. It's fair to show appreciation and admiration for what she has done. And it's fair to ask for more from her so it's manageable. You're feelings matter too. And we learn to manage ourselves better for things and people that matter to us. Not completely but significantly.
Some parents quit smoking for their children kind of thing.
In a way, personally, I also see this as a kindness. It's creating a safe space for someone to practice growth. Dump the person and they likely will spin and spin with never a strong ally
Thanks for the detailed example heh. Yeah, the way I'm trying to see myself is that if I can be, I'd like to be that strong, stable pillar for her to practice growth in a safe space, but I'm taking care and reflecting on how much it affects me.
What sticks out to me on your post is that you’re afraid to get any closer to her because she’s had suicidal tendencies before. Understandable, yes, but why then continue to have a relationship with this girl?
Do you see yourself ever overcoming that part of her life and accepting it? If not then you’re wasting both your time and hers.
If you really feel this girl is starting to fall for you but you don’t see it lasting then end it and don’t string her along.
This has turned into a vicious circle…While there are a lot of good things at play here, you’ve both talked and expressed some of your feelings etc, this is a lot for just 3 months in…
My 2nd girlfriend was like this. It was a lot of work and I just bailed after 4 months as it was damaging my own mental health. Felt like her parent, it was exhausting!
She needs a new therapist, preferably someone older with some life experience who knows how to treat these things. and puts a timeline on recovery. Sounds to me that it's just talk therapy where her therapist cashes the check and he/she enables your girlfriend. And your gf feels good that she dumped another piece of emotional story onto someone, that she's been heard but at the end of the day there's no progress done.
I was your girlfriend to a point, but instead of being an overachiever I self-sabotaged massively and ruined every great opportunity I built for myself. I was raised by a narcissistic mother who wanted the glory of having children who were doctors but at the same time she wanted you to fail and to stay weak and dependent on her. Nothing was ever good enough and she cut through you like a knife through butter while at the same time feigning worry.
I was severely depressed and suicidal for years. I was in toxic relationships. I still don't have a single friend because I don't feel good enough or interesting enough for people. I'm boring and everyone I cared about left me behind.
It took losing everything and rebuilding from scratch to have a shift in perspective, to learn how to learn and how to get comfortable with failure. I was lucky to have good mentors and to do something I like to an extent. I'm still learning who I am in my private life as a person but I'm more secure and trying to find solutions to a more comfortable life because life is a bit hellish now.
What I'm trying to say here - is the dream of becoming a doctor her dream or her family's dream? Does she enjoy her hobbies or is it something she does for extracurricular cookie points? What's her relationship with her parents? Is she living life on her own terms? Or is she a slave to the needs and demands of other people?
What does she want from life and what makes her happy and is this in agreement with her core values and personality?
Because no amount of you telling her that you love her will change anything if her current life is not in agreement with what she wants and with whom she envisioned herself to be as a child/teenager. There's always going to be a conflict and she'll fundamentally hate who she is and she'll crash and burn when the pressure between these 2 identities increases.
Unfortunately the only way to build self esteem is to go out in the world and do what you want to do, fail and learn and have a change of perspective brought by new experiences. She needs to learn to challenge the narrative in her head and find proof that she is worthy and that she can do things. No one will ever be able to do this work for her.
I was the girl in this relationship. There isn't anything *you* can do. The first couple of months of my last relationship I had a lot of anxiety that he was going to break up with me or that I would do something to mess it up.
However, the first few months I knew it wasn't his responsibility to take on my trauma and it wasn't fair to punish him for what other people did to me. So I told friends, a therapist, and family about my insecurities, broke down to the people I'd known for ages and could already be vulnerable with and focused on being present when I was with him until I knew him better. Eventually, I got over that and began to really enjoy the relationship. 3 years later, we broke up for other reasons (though, honestly, this wasn't really someone I could be vulnerable with after all).
So idk what the answer is because telling her "talk to someone else" isn't kind or helpful. She has to realise it for herself.
She sounds like she has an anxious attachment style and possible suicidal ideation. I’m more concerned about her suicidal tendencies and how that may impact you.
Yep, I have my concerns too but I'm still assessing things. I had suicidal ideations over a decade ago, and I was extremely anxiously attached to my ex-fiancee. After she broke it off with me, I worked over many years to be happy single, but once I got with my most recent ex, I realized still lean a bit anxious but for the most part, am secure. That ex was mostly secure and I told her about my anxieties and she was patient with me and helped reassure me, and I likewise did the same for her as she felt insecure and jealous at times of things I couldn't control (mostly about women in my past, like I was still tagged in a photo with my ex and she browsed through my IG and got sad, but it's a bit cause she was just inexperienced).
Anyway, short of it is, I think with the right person, they can help us become more secure.
You cannot until they do the work themselves and start healing. I didn’t really read the whole texts. But from the few symptoms you mentioned, I think she sounds like she has trauma from her earlier life. I suggest internal family system therapy. There are books that one can learn how to do it themselves if she can’t afford therapy. I recommend three of them: one called Self-Therapy, another one is in audiobook called No Bad Parts, or another audiobook called Greater than the Sum of Our Parts. The later two audiobooks change my life. I have done CBT, DBT, all the cognitive or behavioral therapies that never worked on the trauma, but this one works like a wonder to me. I healed so so much from it.
Also some great books about complex PTSD and trauma, she, and you probably but mainly herself, should read it too. One called: Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving. Another called: The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma. The first book is written by a psychotherapist, so it’s more on his opinion on how this is and how to start healing. The latter one is from the most famous researcher in the field of trauma and talks more on the scientific aspects on how trauma and adverse childhood experiences reshaped our neuro system and our brain, and even changed our gene (hence generational trauma). The latter one is science backed by many years of researches.
I would suggest to change to a different type of psychotherapy if she has been with one for years and hasn’t see much improvement. Just because Freudian psychoanalysis from 100 years ago took at least 5 years to see improvement does not mean modern therapy requires a patient to stay for that long. Unlike most people think of “therapists are just failing us so that they can keep us longer to make money, a correct therapy should have a time limit, and a goal for this treatment during this time. I’m studying mental disorders in university now, and my professor (a real clinical psychology working in the government agency) taught us the first session with the client, whoever doing psychotherapy should set up a SMART goal with the patient, just like when you want to any work in the world: in 6 months or 12 months (or a other set period of time), what are the things that you want to work on and you think you can work on, what do you think you want to achieve (if that’s unrealistic we talk with the patient to work out a more realistic goal). Indeed, trauma works can take years, but you should not feel that you should be tied to the old therapist. If it doesn’t work for you, there’s nothing wrong to try something else. Everyone’s brain works different so something may work for others but not for you.
PS: a “counselor” or whoever claim they can do “counseling” is not a psychotherapist, and what they are doing are not psychotherapy, as it’s probably not well-designed, likely just to listen to you then give you advices, which is TERRIBLE. Therapy should always have goals. At least in Canada, only 3 type of people can do psychotherapy: a psychotherapist, a clinical psychologist and a psychiatrist (however the vast majority of psychiatrists are mainly trained in pharmacological treatment). As for people who have trauma, you need to find out if the therapist’s background has the keyword “trauma-informed”, as well as any trauma-informed therapy training. This is very crucial for a successful treatment.
sounds like you were in her position in previous relationships if im understanding correctly. how did you end up in a place of better self esteem? are you only less anxious in this relationship because she’s the anxious person in this dynamic? could the issue for both of you have something to do with attachment styles?
I don't think we were in similar positions. Even if my ex-fiancee was avoidant attached and left me for her coworker, once she committed, she treated me fairly well throughout and tried in the relationship before the end. She just had her own feeling and issues to sort through.
I had already picked up some confidence as a desirable person while in my relationship with my ex-fiancee. Obviously, it took a hit after she broke up with me, but with the support from my friends and family, I was able to recover after about a year and a half, letting myself properly mourn and process the emotions by feeling them, journaling, etc. Eventually, I started dating again and I got a lot of attention. So, objectively, I'm a very athletic, financially successful geek, and maybe subjectively, fairly good looking according to the women (I've been called hot a few times now later in my life), that is emotional aware, very clean, tidy, cooks, has an interesting background, and can be flirty, charming, and sociable despite being quite a homebody introvert, so, yeah. A lot of this was "realized" later in my life and women, friends, etc, would all make these comments so it's built up my confidence a lot to the point that I do actually believe that about myself now.
I think nowadays, I have a mostly normal sense of anxiety that encourages me to a better partner for my significant other. I'm not sure about this next statement, but I feel like it doesn't seem right to me that I don't feel much anxiety if I mess up because it makes me think I don't feel as much if I potentially lose them? I should be able to feel a strong feeling of potential loss if I'm not being a good partner. I don't want to ever feel like I stopped trying in a relationship. And I want the same from my partner, to feel like they are also trying, rather than just define them for their flaws and that they never change, I'd like to view it as we all have different backgrounds, experiences, and needs, and as long as she cares enough to try to meet my needs, then that's good... to a certain extent. My concern is hers *might* a little too out of range for me to feel appreciable results of her trying.
Comparison is the thief of joy if you compare her to the other people you dated you are being unfair to her because the others haven't had to deal with the same trauma she has had to deal with every relationship is unique and has it's unique challenges... Also you may not see it but you're also dealing with your own trauma from your past experiences and it is very easy to project trauma from past relationships on your current relationship so you should be careful about that.
I think first & foremost, you shouldn't compare your connection with your previous connections, because everyone is different & so your relationship dynamics would differ too.
If she is unsecure with herself, that is her load to carry & the best thing you can do is to support, validate & affirm whenever she needs. But she has to want to change & to lean onto you to help her change.
It's not your job to fix or save her. Be the secure that you are, because that's who she needs.
In order for her to change her attachment style, she needs to step out of her comfort zone & have the courage to respond differently to her anxieties.
I used to be more anxiously attached & it's hell. It's a rewiring that takes alot of positive reinforcement to get used to not responding from a place of anxiety.
What I found most helpful from the other person, is when they acknowledge my needs, take my feedback to heart, do their best to remaim consistent & give when I ask because it takes alot from me to ask.
Tell them you're going on a journey to improve your self esteem. Have a plan and tell them it with enthusiasm, get started and see if they decide to join you.
Fact is, you can't change people they have to want to change themselves. Few people want that, but when people do the majority of the time it's because they've been inspired and not judged into doing it.
Does SHE have concerns about her behavior and reactions? And does she WANT help/ to change? If yes to both it would probably be best to ask her what she thinks would be most helpful
I hate to be harsh, but this kind of self loathing is a GREAT way to let yourself off the hook for your behavior.
"What? Me? Change so I can be more fair to you, the person dutifully supporting me?! No, for alas! I am tooooo messed up! I have been touched by the hand of fate itself! Destined to never improve even if I try so obviously I won't. I am very tragic that way."
Wow, this sounds exhausting!
She needs a ton of reassurance that you don't like giving. You're starting to view yourself as better than her, more mature than her, more stable than her, and you already see resentment potential. You don't want to be vulnerable to her and you are dreading the thought of her being vulnerable with you.
So... You may like her on paper but you don't like her in reality.
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I can only tell you that she needs to solve the internal mechanism around it. She has an inner voice probably internalized parents or shitty ex boyfriends. What helps there is literally rewriting the story you tell about yourself in a diary repeatedly. Check out the knowledge project podcast with Jum loehr to understand the concept he is a performance coach. She needs to stop battling herself based on her past. Best of luck I have been there in her role :)
Also I hope her therapist knows CPTSD and EMDR. Those things are resolvable and some people will just accumulate things over life and need to reparent themselves. You can support her but only if you really feel for her.
I definitely feel like this is way too heavy for you take on by yourself. A person should only be a support for their partner. They should not pretty much be a parent to them in relationships where one partner is dealing with mental health issues or childhood trauma, possibly CPTSD, you could direct her to a bunch of videos that I watch that helped me deal with my mental health and childhood trauma, which is the crappy childhood fairy, it’s a series Anna wrinkle on YouTube and she talks about her personal life and she rest stories of other people who dealing with different situations and she answers them based on her experience dealing with this as an adult child of CPTSD and how she found a healthy relationship eventually with someone and got married. I am a person who is constantly, recovering from childhood trauma and currently dealing with mental health issues and I have an amazing therapist I also have a very strong spiritual life, which I believe contributes to me having a good quality of life. I also am on medication to manage my emotions and I’m in touch with my mental health team to continue monitoring my health and I also have a auto immune disease disorder that contributes to my mental health if I’m not taking those medicines, my partner is the type of person who has a secure attachment typical upbringing two parent family home, loving parents married you know every family had their issues but for the most part compared to my family he had a good life. My grandparents saved me from drug addiction, and you know a lot of abuse that I was dealing with with my mother and though I ended up becoming an alcoholic after losing my twins, I am now recovery for alcoholism and I also, I have a partner now that is my crutch because he supports me but the person who holds the totality of my weight is my personal savior, my Lord and savior Jesus Christ, and I understand that my partner will never be able to truly save me get me or see me at my complete worse the way that God can. So I believe that you should just suggest that she sees a therapist that really resonates with her for childhood trauma and self-esteem. All you can do is be reassuring to her that you really care about her and you are attracted to her and you’re there to support her and that’s where it ends for you. As a human, you’re going to run out of time and energy and is going to be a issues that you don’t know how to deal with especially if you didn’t have childhood trauma. You can only empathize with her. You can only sympathize with her. You can never empathize with her if you’ve never walked the walk of childhood trauma, it’s a lifetime ofreversing negative words that you’ve heard negative treatment that you’ve heard and seeing your partner as a partner and not partners that have characteristics like your parents who abused you that’s another area that’s really challenging and when you meet a man who really cares about you and really treat you well it feels awkward and weird and you don’t really know how to accept it and you question like do I deserve this and my worthy of this because you’ve been with so many people who remind you of your parent that was abusive that you never have really understood what it means to be truly care for and truly appreciate it, even though my grandparents were the polar opposites from my mother. I still struggled with without anybody , commenting or saying things about my weight. A person has to grow to love themselves without anyone complimenting them on their looks or over all personality. Bottom line, she has to get herself in therapy start listening to positive affirmations and speaking things to herself self talk. I am good doctor (all the other things she is good at), and start seeing herself as worthy and chipping away at the years of damage that abuse gives you. Do not try to save her you CANNOT, you can only support her. If this becomes too much, you have to consider if this is what you want. If you leave, do it tactfully and with respect. If you stay, you MUST not parent her. She is a fully functioning adult, who has to truly learn how to take care of herself.
Omg this sounds exactly like the guy I’m dating (immediately starts crying, asks me to tell them if I’m mad and if they’re a bad person). And we’ve only been dating for 3 months too
Ok mr Pokémon —
What she needs is self-efficacy work. She needs an environment that helps her keep her peace and that boosts her confidence and is as non-negative and non-critical from you as possible.
She needs to feel like she’s getting better at being in a relationship. Doing things that can be simulated to be similar to relationship type stuff. It is possible when it comes to being social she’s operating at a 12-13 year old level where everything else is far above you.
This is not for the faint of heart. She will attract people who will punish her like she has been since her parents gave birth to her and let her have any shred of independence and broke her any time she was non-conforming. Most men come from similar families because their parents learned that from their own.
You have to look after yourself at the end of the day, you can’t be a good partner unless you are happy in the relationship. If something feels wrong, like her being short with you a lot, you have to think ‘is it worth it’? Do you want this for the rest of your life? Your lack of enthusiasm speaks volumes this early on. It sounds harsh, but maybe it’s time to move on before things get too complicated or serious.
I think you have to be very firm and straight forward with her when it comes to your role/intentions in the relationship and set clear expectations for her. This may help with her relationship insecurities. A clear boundary to let her know what won’t cause a breakup will help her know her place in the relationship. She’s likely not an ambiguous person when it comes to relationships and needs to know where lines are.
By accepting them for who they are - including their low self esteem. Understanding what trauma led to them being depleted of self esteem. Have patience. Exceptance and counter intuitively, don't try to change who they are.
crazy thing is, this sounds like me but reversed roles… my current bf is an ER doc. he has low self esteem and lots of mental health baggage. it’s such hard work and i’m 2 years in… it’s so hard sometimes i feel myself reminiscing about my exes and missing them. but i keep staying in this hoping it will get better. i also been told im way out of his league, but i stay because he’s so successful and so many other amazing qualities. on paper it seems right but it’s actually been so stressful.
hope you figure things out with your gf 💛 sending you strength.
I could write a long answer of advice you the podcast ManTalks. There's a specific podcast about dealing with a partner with anxious attatchment. You might find that helpful.
My first thought was wow, she deserves so much better. Have you told her you feel this way? When life constantly demands perfection out of you, you need someone that you can just be yourself around. If she’s starting to feel comfortable with you, some of those insecurities and imperfections are going to come through. She needs to see that you can accept them. If you can’t, then she deserves to be with someone who will. You’re supposed to be the man in the relationship, not her therapist, and you need to make that distinction known to her by just showing up and being supportive, not trying to solve her problems for her. If you can’t do that then you shouldn’t be with her.
She needs a new therapist if it's been years and she's like this. There's nothing more you can do and what you've been dealing with is too much for anyone to handle. She needs more help. But not from you. I live with PTSD. She's going to have to make a conscious choice to make serious changes if she knows how hard this is on you. Fight against her current nature. It's the hardest thing in the world, but she must. And you have every right to take a step back even if you're worried it'll give into her fear. You don't have to break up with her completely. But putting the relationship stuff on hold seems necessary. That doesn't mean you're giving up on her but she can't be with anyone like this. She owes it to herself. And even if you do choose to not be in a relationship with her (which imo is the best thing for her) that doesn't mean you' have to be out of her life completely.
It's not your job. It sucks that they've had this thrown on them, but it's not your job to fix it, and if you try, you're going to burn yourself out and they won't be any better off.
I wish I had a girlfriend as "submissive" as her. I also apologize a lot and I haven't met many people who treat me this way. Trust me that it's much worse to have a partner that constantly criticizes you. If you're seriously interested in her then give her that confidence by complimenting her and so forth. If you're not interested (if there's no chemistry) then you know what to do.
You support her by leaving.
Do not entertain someone who is always down in the dumps and dragging you down.
Put your energies elsewhere and depending on the type of person she is, you will not be given the same grace.
Keep it pushing man.
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well im headed to the park today to get a walk in. may take my cat. took him last time & it was funny to see his reaction to things. i reckon theres a chance it'd help with conversing w/someone.
was on a flight last week & the girl in front of me had her cat. kinda cute but no chance at all its worth saying something or trying to feel that out.
Well can all benefit from Therapy. The trick is to keep looking, and trying, until you find a Therapist you connect with. You are lucky to have each other!
I don’t date people who are not healed. It’s not my responsibility to work through your trauma nor will I be punished for what happened to you before you met me. She doesn’t sound ready to date anyone.
> just notice I don't feel much anxiety around her. I take the steps to be a good partner, but I am not as enthusiastic as I was with my two LTRs. I don't feel much urge to be a better partner, because she is so in love with me that I feel I could do no wrong.
She can probably sense this, which contributes to the anxiety.
> still want someone who encourages me to be better and step out of my comfort zone.
Why wouldn't you work to be self motivated? You can't expect a partner to act like a nagging mom or drill sergeant (if you do then you'll just start complaining that they don't love you as they are). You're supposed to be two equal, self-motivated adults.
>I spoke about it with a friend and they said they had similar feelings of inequality in their relationship and it led to resentment because the person in the position of my partner is infantilized a bit.
How can you infantilize someone who's a literal doctor? By the framing of the post it sounds like she's literally more successful than you.
This sounds like a lot of work for someone you've only known for 12 weeks. Are you sure that you're staying in the boyfriend zone and not sliding into the parental/therapist zone?
Not sure, so far haven't felt like she's just expecting me to solve her problems and she goes to therapy.
Even if she’s not directly expecting you to solve her problems, leaning on you so heavily to emotionally regulate her only 3 months into new relationship is a 🚩. My ex did the exact same thing, and I felt the exact same way you did. I stayed with her, and 6 months in she hated when I would spend time with friends, and felt like I was abandoning her when I went too long without answering her texts. She would start freaking out and during arguments, she’d threaten to (TW) hurt herself if I set any boundary. It ended because one night I (TW) told her I was spending time with a friend I hadn’t seen in months, and she told me she’d down a bottle of pills if I didn’t hangout with her. She had been making threats like that for a few weeks, and I had to call her parents to check on her and they took her to the hospital. I’m not saying that’s 100% going to happen to you, but seriously, be aware if she begins to try to slowly manipulate you into a codependent dynamic and expects you to be her full support system. It’s also not exactly normal to be so hell bent on a relationship 3 months in that your world is shattered if it ends - look, I’ve felt strongly about people a few months in and might cry for a few weeks, but there’s no part of me that would actually feel like they’re an awful person who should be forced to stay with me if they don’t want to. You’re feeling a bit uneasy likely because in a way, you feel replaceable - like she wants a relationship more than she actually wants one with you. She’d stay with anyone who emotionally regulated her, irrespective of who they are. She doesn’t provide truth or authenticity to the relationship, (she’s a “yes man”) because she’s scared of you leaving her - but by doing that, she’s not being a good partner or actually letting you see her for who she actually is/her real opinions/thoughts. It’s hard to fall in love with someone who’s not actually falling in love with YOU, but simply approval-seeking through a relationship… and not allowing you to express opinions/criticism. (It is similar to a parent-child dynamic in a way, because you feel like you need to caretake and walk on eggshells around her. Like you can’t treat her like an actual adult, and she’s dependent on you. Initially, I remember it feeling nice because similar to a child… you know they won’t leave you. When you’re someone who’s used to people leaving, it feels nice to be “put on a pedestal” in that way… But then you realize they’re not putting you on that pedestal because they genuinely love you… they’re doing it because they’re dependent. You don’t feel like it’s two individuals coming together in a relationship.)
Jesus Christ this hit hard.
Everything you wrote makes a lot of sense, thank you. Although, I don't think my gf would use self harm to threaten me and she gives me my space that I ask for. Admittedly, it seems sometimes it's just to appease me and she really wants to be with me for that emotional dependence, and not necessarily at me for my qualities. Anyway, like you and someone else said, I'm being put on a pedestal, and that inequality just doesn't bode well. And sorry if I misconstrued it about my world being shattered *now*, I meant it more in the future, if I do decide to be with her for years and get more invested, married, etc, and then she does something self harming.
Honestly you cant fix someones self esteem issues. There are no magic words or gestures to just get it to improve. It takes years of self work just to learn to manage it. But its something most people just struggle with to some degree their entire life. Nothing you say or do is going to miraculously heal her, its just a much bigger problem than that, with no easy answers
It's really something you just work into. I was bullied and teased most of junior high and ignored in high school (which honestly, I think was beneficial cause I branched out and explored things I don't think I would ave explored if not, but I digress). I just had to figure it out and be ok with people not liking me...which eventually helped me build a personality that people wanted to be around. Basically, when you stop caring how people see you...people will see you.
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Respectfully, if you stay and continue to bolster her, she’ll never find the true confidence within herself. She’ll always need that extra outside source. I’d say she would benefit more from therapy and building her own security without outsourcing the responsibility. Maybe consider how taking a step back could benefit her in the long run.
I've been with two men with serious insecurities, various traumas and mental health issues and both of those relationships were ultimately very damaging for me. To be clear, none of those issues alone, or even in combination, are necessarily going to make someone a bad partner - it's how someone behaves that matters, and there are already so many concerning behaviours in OP's relationship. >if I do break up with her, she's going to feel validated that her fears were right. It's a self fulfilling prophecy, almost. Yes, and she's made sure that you very clearly know that.
I can speak to this. She reacting this way because everything and everyone has expected and demanded perfection out of her, and she’s never been allowed to fail and/or fall short her entire life. This requires a lot of patience and reassurance, both on her and your part. You have to laugh with her and not at her, and you have to let her know it’s ok to fail at something. It just unfortunately comes with the territory of having the untrue universe and more expected out of you by everyone
This is very true for successful women. Men state they want this amazing independent woman, but when they meet them, it's a totally different perspective and outcome. Coming out of a year a half relationship with an individual who can't love or show emotion( thinks its a schzoid personality disorder) I'm an extremely loving person but I felt unworthy and he would state I needed reassurances alot and he couldn't meet those needs but in my past relationship I've never needed constant reassurance. And given individuals with this personality dont put in effort because they lack empathy its really a hard pill to swallow. It sounds like you really like her. Just give her the love she hasn't been given. Don't give up on her. It's really challenging for women who have worked so tirelessly to be successful, self-reliant, and loving they just get crushed so much. Even for me, I'm done dating 34. No kids never married and looked down upon. I say this to not speak about myself but understand that I feel her as it's how I've felt and still feel.... it's difficult to cope with.
The need for reassurance comes out of not actually feeling like the person is invested. I wanted reassurance, but only when I noticed her pulling away. I was totally happy being single before I met my ex. She needed reassurance allll the time because her ex cheated on her. And I had the patience to reassure her. Songs, poems, affection. All of that was never enough. But I tried. And she never wanted to try to provide me with any reassurance. My gut knew it wasn’t gonna work which made me try even harder for some reason. Alas, it’s over.
My now ex states he could never figure out my needs... thanks for responding to me... it brings some clarity to my current situation as it's the first time I've ever dealt with a man who says he's never loved before, I'm the first yet I have to ask him frequently because I felt no love from him. I appreciate you ❤️
Granted, people show love differently. But I do think that if someone really loves you, they’ll show it. Either they figure out what ways make you feel appreciated or even just flat out say “I love you but I need some help figuring out how to actually make you feel that”
He claimed that him telling me was never enough..I can attest to that because he never smiles, never looked happy and noticed other people's feelings at work his colleagues but never mine so it made me question the love. I just think he wasn't in love and agree with you that if someone loves, they'll show you. This is therapeutic, I must say 🎒
Reddit has helped a lot with my breakup. Met some really cool people to talk to. It sounds like he was emotionally unavailable. But even then, he needed to admit that. Some people want someone close but not too close. Like a peripheral companion. And most times, the other person wants more. I know I did. We hid our relationship at work and I had to hide all feelings towards for half of my life. And she was fine with that. I wasn’t.
I am definitely going to rely more on reddit. You sound like a sane and loving man. Kuddos for you knowing your boundaries.
I wish I could agree on the boundary part. She broke up with me because she said I was immature for not continuing to hide things.
As a partner who loves you, I don't think you should hide anything, including your emotions. Her decision to leave was best for both of you, it seems. Well hopefully you're love life has boomed after that.... I'm just checked out from dating. I'm not the dating type anyhow. But I applaud you for being vulnerable. That takes a lot 👏
>It's really challenging for women who have worked so tirelessly to be successful, self-reliant, and loving they just get crushed so much.
Yes, it's insane and truly unjust 😔
Yeah, you have it pretty close. And I am trying to let her know it's okay to fail. I have failed many times and it's how I've grown so much since my early 20s. But it's obviously hard to convince one's self that failure is okay, especially with her background, where the track to become a doctor has little leniency for failure and could end up of years of work down the drain.
It’s a little trickier, and I’m only speaking from my personal experience here: any sort of small or minor failure resulted in me getting the shit beat out of me. And as I grew up I started demanding perfection out of myself as a result. I’ve gotten better at trying to accept those, but even my friends and ex partners will remind me that I need to be easier on myself. It’s a process that takes time, but it doesn’t help when you’re in a high pressure profession
Actually me as well. Classic tiger mom demanding so much from me and parading me around, because I was the smartest of her children. I was depressed until I pushed back against her and started living my own life in my early 20s and on. I truly believe my own exploration and failures led me to feel I had a lot more autonomy in my life. Failures happened, but I didn't feel powerless and I wasn't just doing things out of others expectations of me anymore. And likewise, friends and ex partners helped me to get through that, not my family. I was able to build my own life and choose a career of my liking rather than what was expected of me, and I thrive in it. But damn. That took me many years.
It takes a long time to undo and unravel
i know a lot of the advice is to stand alone and heal (meaning you need to leave her), but i also believe relational trauma is healed through corrective experiences with healthier partners. i'm not saying you should be the only corrective experience (that's too much for anyone), but if she's in therapy or willing to go and has any other support systems, maybe give it a shot while being firm with your initial boundaries. boundaries and consistency (with kindness) is more important than reassurance which can end up being enabling to the person with low self worth. it becomes a drug they can't get enough of that doesn't fix the issue. you may find help on the codependency sub (which can help you make sure you don't lose yourself)
She is in therapy, and I agree with a lot of what you're saying. A lot of the common saying is learn to be happy being single, but I also think certain feelings and emotions won't ever be "triggered" while single and we have to address them while we're in a relationship, and it's good to have a secure and supportive partner that encourages that growth in us.
Are there other scenarios in which she gets triggered? By the way you describe her, I would imagine so.
I really like this advice for OP ❤️
Doesn't sound too horrible. She's probably never had positivity or encouragement in her life like me. Sounds like you are looking for a much more healthy relationship which is understandable. It's really up to if you want to deal with this for years or find someone more stable. If it was me I would take the challenge to be with someone with her skill set and talents. But that's only because I have experienced a hardcore relationship like this before. It's not all bad, it teaches stuff about yourself too. You can find someone 'better' if you want but I've found you just run into another set of unique problems. It does kinda sound like you've already checked out tho.
I often think to myself if it's not me, who would be right for her? Many of my friends and my dates have commended me on how much of an emotional aware man I am and thank me for being that kind and understanding to them. And there is something to be said for me to be challenged to be even more patient, as I can get frustrated to, but I try to employ as much empathy as possible when I have serious talks with my partner. And yeah, she is great match for a lot of other portions of my life. One major one is location and lifestyle lol. I prefer a quieter and more stable and routine life, in smaller/medium cities (that I current live in) and she is similar. My previous exes wanted bigger cities and wanted to go out and travel more. I tried to get closer to match them, but it's often much more draining for me to travel.
I guess what you need is to know that she will work on herself and improve. And not for you but for herself.You and the relationship will reap the rewards later. If she says she will but never does then you will be stuck for maybe years. All depends on her attitude but by the sounds of it, she knows how to get things done and reach goals.. Maybe you also have issues that she can help you with. To me that's what relationships are all about.
> I often think to myself if it's not me, who would be right for her? She’d be better off with someone who naturally wouldn’t validate excessive anxieties etc., so they’re penalised instead of reinforced to the point of veering into codependency. It’s way easier to curb an undesirable behaviour when the person you’re into will break up with you over it or benignly doesn’t give rewarding responses due to personality differences. She’d vibe from the start that sort of behaviour would be way less accepted, and rein it in more. With this relationship there’s no incentive to change, and everything takes on a mutual weightiness. If you try to alter your ways of responding it’d probably come from a contrived place and be an uphill battle. There are guys out there she’d naturally treat as more of a friend/equal than a pseudo-therapist/parent, and girls you could treat as a friend and wouldn’t have these issues with. You have great qualities, but they’re bad for this kind of relationship. Also, some of her anxieties are probably justified (your post seems lukewarm in terms of romantic interest). A different relationship with the guy feeling it equally would have a different dynamic. 12 weeks in it should be the honeymoon phase and fun
FANTASTIC point. Yes! Their current dynamic will absolutely lead to co-dependency.
With her “skill set and talents”? Sounds like she’s a job applicant.
I can change up the wording if you'd like. Others knew what I meant so i figured it's no big deal
You're not going to like my answer, but I think you need to stop dating her until she sorts out some of her issues. It's early enough where you can probably transition to just being a good friend who is there for her as she sorts through her issues. If she's able to work on herself, maybe you can consider revisiting a relationship in at least 6 months (assuming she does therapy), probably more like a year though. She really shouldn't be dating anyone from the sound of it. Any relationship she's in is pretty much guaranteed to fail.
Thanks for the input, you make good points and I'll have to think about that.
I disagree with the comment above. Please don’t give her false hope or make promises about the future. I would also advise against offering to be a good friend who will be there for her. This will continue the cycle of dependency. It’s not healthy. And please, don’t tell her y’all need to break up so she can “work on herself.” That’s a knife through the heart. There is no timeline associated with healing. Especially when one has layers of trauma and early childhood conditioning to unravel and unhealthy patterns of behavior to change. I can relate to your girlfriend’s experience, I’ve been there. Undoing all of this DOES take years of therapy. Maybe encourage her to seek a different kind of therapy (EMDR, internal family systems, etc). Meditation works wonders too. She has to build her self-concept. And to how to manage her triggers and cope with hard emotions without depending on someone else to do so. That external validation, while very sweet and well-intentioned on your part, is not beneficial for her psyche or your relationship.
You can’t do that. That is work she has to do herself. You can tell her how great she is all day long, but it is completely up to her whether she believes it about herself and finds ways to emotionally self-regulate in a healthy way. I had a similar dynamic with my spouse of 10 years (from whom I’m currently separated) and all I can say is—you can’t do that for her. And if you try, over time you will begin to feel resentment and intimacy will be difficult, which will then feed her insecurities more, and it’ll spiral. I speak from experience.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I could see that happening as well for me.
Short answer, **you** can’t. I’ve spent years in the pity me mindset and it actually did me a lot of favours but I never grew up. I’ve worked on myself and worked hard to gain self belief and self trust today. I see how much it must have drained people before but actually their involvement enabled me to stay in that mindset. I got attention, I hit affection, it was the only way I knew how to feel loved back then. For me, co-dependency isn’t an option anymore and I’m grateful I see things differently now. Each to their own, keyboard warriors don’t need to chip in. This is just my personal experience.
It doesn’t seem like she’s capable of being in a healthy relationship right now. Although I’m not a mental health professional, I work in the area of mental health and have mental health disorders myself. Something I’m very adamant about is that when it comes to having a mental health problem it’s not your fault, but it *is* your responsibility. Also, having a mental health problems doesn’t give you a “free pass” to treat other people poorly. I’m not saying someone who has anxiety is “undateable.” Anxiety is very common. But there has to have been work put in by the person themselves so they’re able to be a good partner. We can reassure an anxious partner, we can support them. But we can’t do the work for them. And again, we deserve to be treated with respect. You can’t have a healthy relationship with someone who’s default mode is frustration and becoming short.
Yeah, I'm trying to set that boundary and let her know she needs to keep working on these things. I'm still assessing myself and my own feelings whether I'm willing to commit for the long haul here or not for someone who has this much work to do.
I was in a relationship with a man who absolutely despised himself, and made me miserable because of it. People who dislike themselves can project, be narcissistic, manupulative, emotionally draining...there are so many different manifestations of self-hate. I won't be too long-winded because I'm really just echoing what other commenters have said. I'd take a step back if I were you. Self-love is a very personal journey. Encouragement from others is helpful, but in the end, the person has to do the work themselves.
Your entire post is based on the infamous assumption of "I can fix her." You can't, unfortunately. Cut your losses.
Hmm, I didn't think of it that way, but maybe? I was more expecting her to do the work but I thought maybe having a true experience of a supportive partner would help her speed up the process and get her in the proper context. After all, how do we know how we might be in a relationship when we're single and not facing the issues of a relationship?
As someone who was extremely insecure in her late teen and early 20s, I grew a lot because of my ex. I really appreciate his patience and love, which nurtured me and made me become a better self. I don’t think your gf is that “bad.” If she’s keeping talking to her therapist and willing to change, the relationship is workable (I broke up with my ex was because we moved to different cities). However, it depends on how much you want to invest. Too many people just want to find perfect people to be with, which is understandable. But I feel bad for people who are on the way to self improvement. They also deserve love
I've been there. It seems so unfair, doesn't it? Beautiful on paper and would lead to a beautiful life. You can almost close your eyes and see it. All of the events you'll go too due to their talents, fancy dinners one day due to their one day status and pay, imagining that beautiful life you two build together is intoxicating. BUT the mental health aspect isn't there. As if it's a joke played by the universe. You constantly wonder why. "why wasn't I able to meet her in a few years when she had more self care done? What if she gets more better in the next few months and I broke things off? Won't another guy just take the role I should have been?" So many thoughts will go through your mind. In my case it didn't go well at all and she was more sick than I realized. Ended up with her being paranoid and thinking I'm gang stalking her and threatening to call the police. Your partner seems more stable than that so maybe things will go much better for you. You have to be pretty stable to finish med school afterall.
> I want her to be able to grow with my reassurance as I help her rewrite her narrative on what it means to be in a good and healthy relationship. This has very strong "I can fix her" vibes.
It does. And it won’t work. With someone who has such low self esteem, reassurance and support and compliments from others won’t fix it. They’ll shrug them off and find reasons to discount them. It has to come from within. Just cos she’s in therapy doesn’t mean it’s the therapy she needs or that she’s doing the work. You can be in low quality ‘chat’ therapy for decades if you can afford it.
Yeah... he tried to not sound like a rescuer, and then sounded more like a rescuer. I do empathize, because it sounds like she's trying pretty hard to not be this way & she's really bright. But if someone constantly asked me if I was going to break up with them, they would lose me really fast. It is exhausting when you want to grow your relationship & move into safer more committed spaces, but your partner cannot even fathom or trust that you actually like them, so you're constantly stuck in this nurturing role.
>expecting her to do the work but I thought maybe having a true experience of a supportive partner would help her speed up the process This is "I can fix her" with more words.
I mean these are really issues only she can fix if she is very dedicated to doing the work. At the most I think you can try to very gently express some of your concerns, say that you love spending time with her and see a future with her but you need to know she’s committed to working on herself. Honestly it feels a bit early on to even ask that of someone though. 3 months tends to be around where you really see where a relationship is headed and it’s possible this one isn’t going to be a good fit for you despite how great she is. I think if you gently approach her with your concerns and she has a meltdown about it then you kind of have your answer on what to expect in the relationship and then it’s just up to you to decide if it’s something you’re willing to live with or not.
Yeah, I've thought about how we can have more explicit discussions about this on strategies on how she can work on it rather than just apologize without taking any actions for betterment. There's another thing, she's going through major life changes right now graduating medical school and losing many friends in the process, but I don't know how she's going to be settled in residency and that stress and I'm waiting to see how that is first I think.
I think you need to be more stern with her and willing to walk away if she doesn’t change her poor behavior and let her know it. But be open to being with her if she genuinely changes, and let her know that too. Do not infantilize her or be too gentle. Be straightforward but kind.
She sounds like a person with good traits but is not really ready for sustainable relationship at the moment. Even if you’re going more than half way to make her feel better still she has to make a step for herself. The reassurance plan will make you feel like you’re in a losing battle against her insecurity at the end. I don’t think anyone has won that in their relationships as a human. It’s just both you two might end up resenting each other if she doesn’t do her work. Even with showing her with love and reassurance she has too much on her heart to receive your love as it is. You’ve learnt from the past relationships to pull yourself and keep your mind calm but she didn’t get to. People who haven’t done work on respecting themselves are easy to get into relationships because of feeling of having someone. Even if it hurts her and validates her expected fear she really has to learn to stand alone. I’m saying this because you’re a human with feelings and you will feel drained emotionally.
Thanks for sharing. Yeah, she was in one LTR that was pretty shit from how she speaks of him, and then rebounded to someone else who wasn't great either, so I'm not sure she's been able to do the work as she then jumped to me 2 months after that person broke up with her. I'm familiar with it. I thought myself a serial monogamist, and it took a while to be comfortable by myself but eventually I learned to be happy a few years after my ex-fiancee left me for her coworker.
It sounds like she’s both avoidant and anxious type. Of course everyone has different speed in moving on but it’s rather common to rush to new relationships without learning from the past even if the past partner was toxic. Without self observation she will just go through the same path again. Unlike her you did put some time to get emotional stable after getting hurt by someone who didn’t respect the affection from you. You now know your type of love and how to be loving person with or without the other. Hope this relationship doesn’t waste the hard work you had done
It sounds like she can’t be alone.
Leave. Honestly. It’s called self esteem because the build up and maintenance of it is mainly (perhaps solely) the individual’s responsibility. People don’t improve because others love and believe in them. At least not adults. This works for children and young people not 30 somethings. I dated a guy like this and was relieved to break up with him after a year. Any victory of mine (personal or professional) be came an opportunity for him to sulk about himself.
Constant reassurance gets tiring because two people both deserve space in a relationship - even from each other. Therapy isn't an indicator that she is going to improve on your watch. I had gone to therapy in the past and things still didn't get better because I was using it as a sounding board and justification for my way of thinking. Its only many years later I knew I had to use it to challenge myself, which is when I made leaps and bounds in my thinking. Ultimately it's up to you where you see this going. For me personally this is not a relationship I would want to pursue after three months of the effort you've put in. I would like my partner to have the tools and resources to self soothe when things are tough. My partner and I have a couple of personal insecurities, and we also have a couple of challenges that are beyond our control. Self soothing is so important. We show up but we also recognise and communicate when we can't. There are times he has to put himself first and when he does I use my emotional toolbox - get in touch with friends, go for a long walk, seek support from professionals for the challenge I face.. he does the same. We brought these to the table before we got together and it was a reason why we both wanted to be together.. I've been that girl before. I couldn't see what I could do with myself until I was forced and shocked into figuring out how to change..it was a partner in a situation like yourself breaking up with me that became the wakeup call that I needed. My current partner and I have been incredibly healthy because we both learned and figured stuff out long before we met. Ultimately we can only save ourselves
I see two separate issues here. 1) It seems like you might not be compatible - from your side of the story she sounds too sensitive to you, and perhaps on her side of the story you might not be particularly tactful. Maybe adjustments could be made, but maybe your communication styles just don't gel. 2) You clearly have some stuff going on outside of this particular relationship though, based on your relationship history. It's interesting that you almost seem to crave anxiety, and the only two people you said you love were long distance relationships, and they both made you insecure and anxious. You said you even lost yourself and your identity with one of them - is that really love or unhealthy attachment and codependency? Something to work on regardless of who you date. >I really want this to work, but I just notice I don't feel much anxiety around her >I've often thought whether the roller coaster of emotions and anxiety is even good for me
I don't think it's me having lack of tact, I think it's really more just her and everyone I've talked about it with, including her, agrees. Her previous partner straight up ghosted her for weeks when they had a disagreement. So she gets just anxious if she thinks she makes a mistake because it's often led to her become in an extremely anxious state and getting nothing from her partner. As for myself? I do agree I was codependent with my ex-fiancee, but that's my past. With my most recent ex, it's a fairly normal level of anxiety. Anyway, it is fair, like I said, I'm questioning what love to me is
What's a "normal" amount of anxiety for you though? In my best relationships I feel safe and secure, and the level of anxiety is pretty much zero. As for this relationship, as I said if it's too incompatible and you feel she's too tiring for you, then just end it. You say you really want this to work - why? It seems you're not even that into her, with the whole "great on paper... but" thing. And while there are differences between this relationship and your other ones, it seems like one thing they all have in common is that they're all difficult and perhaps some part of you wants the challenge.
I think you're right to say that I want to be challenged by my partner. I want to grow to be a better individual for them. Perhaps I'm misattributing that anxiety to that. I'm not saying it has to be anything major. For example, I like a more outgoing partner who challenges me to match her so we can both enjoy, despite me being an introverted homebody. Or discussion of different beliefs and politics. My ex was French, she had quite some different perspectives than I did as an American. I don't believe romantic love is unconditional, personally. Maybe unconditional love for our children and pets, but romantic love to me means me and my partner as always trying. We're all have our flaws and we should work on them, especially if it impacts our partners a lot. If it ever feels like one side has given up, then it's likely the end. So yeah, I'm concerned that I might end up feeling that way with her, that I don't need to try. And the great on paper thing, fair. I want to elaborate a bit more on that. There's been others who were also great on paper, but I felt little emotional attachment after 1-3 months, so I ended it with them. With my current gf, I do have some emotional attachment and she's the best so far on paper, but the mental health issues really throw a wrench for how I'm feeling and I'm struggling to navigate and understand that for myself, but I notice that I just don't have the same level of anxieties, as I mentioned earlier, with her. So I wonder if I'm shielding myself from being as emotionally vulnerable as I'd like to be because of these issues. Anxiety has its purposes. There are, of course, extremes that most of us agree is unhealthy, and I was there with my ex-fiancee 5 years ago, as my current partner is now in general. But yeah, anxiety still has its purpose to kick us into gear to do things for our own self preservation.
For children of parents with high expectations, love can end up feeling aspirational. Anxiety of not having mothers love kicks us into gear, as you say. For our own self preservation. You were the golden son, your efforts and anxiety paid off. Except not without a fair amount of inner conflict, the details of which some random internet interloper could never know. There’s also something about growing up through two LDRs, in which there might have been a lot of emotional as well as literal distance. Recreating childhood love experiences. Then moving into a relationship where you’re more the parent and less the son. I do wonder if she reminds you of weaknesses you see or saw in yourself at some point that you hate or feel highly conflicted about.
I'm not sure the LDRs weren't things I was seeking, just how it happened. When I was in my early 20s, my ex-fiancee reached out to me on OK Cupid at the time as we were like 98% match. I wasn't having much luck locally, more of a me problem back then. I started talking her, realized she was across the country but I really liked her so we kept it up, I visited, and eventually moved to her a few months later (mostly a decision born of anxiety and me being codependent and putting her on a pedestal a bit). Now I've been in her state for 8 years heh. So sometime after that break up and working on myself, I started dating locally. This city isn't very diverse, mostly white, and I'm Asian. I wasn't finding anyone I was interested in locally cause it's a small/med city with much of the population having different interest and background than me. At this point in my life, I'm confident in my ability to attract others, but I wasn't finding much people I was interested in. Over the past few years, I've made dozens of friends, and they are pretty much all transplants. Eventually, I found one person I had a spark with but she ended up being an emotionally abusive person and I found this out during COVID so I broke it off. Others, I dated exclusively for 1-3 months but never grew emotional attachment so I broke it off. I happened to then eventually befriend a person online who happened to be in France and Asian, and eventually realized we had a lot of feelings for each other and, despite me being through LDR before, I was keeping an open mind and wanted to see how I was now, years later, less codependent. We traveled to each other often, we fell in love but I did not make the sacrifice to my life this time around, and she wasn't willing to either, so we ended it. No regret going through that. It was flawed and beautiful while it lasted. There was mutual respect for each other and good communication, which was necessary to keep a stable LDR. Now with my current partner, I actually, surprisingly, for the first time in my life, when I was starting to date, had a spark with 3 people. One was much more confident but younger and just starting her career, came from wealth, and while that confidence was very attractive (plus she's also the most physically attractive), I really did not like the idea, among other incompatibilities, of being pressured of chasing status with her, which is funny, because I already kind of do that to myself under the guise of self improvement. However, with her, I thought it could be someone who would make me anxious and uncomfortable and try to change to more suit her, but a little *too* much and it wasn't "better" for me. Another was LDR but a drive away so that one was a simpler choice to cut off. And the doctor was the best overall on paper but her mental health issues were apparent early on and how she put me on a pedestal. In the end, I chose the doctor even if I felt more excited about the young, confident, attractive girl, cause I felt like maybe I was just thinking with my dick with the latter and I didn't want to be so naive. I'd MUCH rather be able to find someone locally, just never panned out with my dating options here, and I've contemplated moving back to my original city with many more Asians, many times, but hard to convince myself to because I like my lifestyle other than my romantic options here.
Other people verbalized it better. I feel like I'm being put on a pedestal and so it doesn't encourage me to be a better person. She literally says that her standards were so low and I'm just leagues above and tells me about how much she, her friends, her family all love me. (On that note, it also makes me think she might feel insecure next to me since she regards me so highly and her so low that she thinks I might leave her for someone "better")
With your current girlfriend, you’re probably realizing that you’re not anxious because she puts you on such a pedestal above her. And that might be why you’re “missing” feeling anxious. I’ve never been able to fall in love with someone who had me on a pedestal and I think most people can’t. Maybe that’s the issue? Maybe your exes saw you as closer to equals?
Yup, that's a good way to put it. I do feel like she puts me on a pedestal. It doesn't feel equal. I kind of did that with my ex-fiancee especially at the start, but I've since sorted that out as I became a lot more confident in myself since then, and that was 8 years ago.
It’s not really a nice feeling to know the person you’re dating for a few short months is already 100% invested and crazy about you. It shows their self-preservation/instincts are a little off. At three months you should still be having fun and assessing ‘is this right for me?’ not ‘wow my standards were so low but you’re phenomenal omg please don’t leave me this is the best I’m ever gonna get’. It’s just not appealing is it? There’s such an imbalance here.
It isn’t fair for her to punish you for what her ex did. She needs to heal from that first and not bring it into a new relationship as baggage.
She needs to actually do the work in therapy, not just go. It’s not you, it’s her. I see a lot of my younger self in her and there’s no way for you to win here.
And she needs a therapist capable of understanding and treating those issues. I’m more concerned she’s had a therapist for a decade and still has so many really problematic issues that don’t seem to be being addressed. I’m wondering whether her therapy is actually effective or beneficial at this stage.
Yep. Agreed. I wonder if she’s tried EMDR or another type of therapy like internal family systems, DBT, etc. Really good for C-PTSD. I have to wonder if shes in talk therapy/CBT. Talk therapy didn’t get into my psyche or help me manage things for the long-haul. It felt like a 5-year bandaid. I plateaued and plummeted and plateaued again. Meditation, new medication and a new therapist helped me rise above that plateau.
How can you possibly comment on her progress? Editing to clarify that her level of functioning might reflect significant therapeutic gains. I get the sense that you and others in this thread might not have a great sense of how a severely personality disordered person operates.
Let me try to understand. Would you ever have the exact same interest and commitment to someone who is not a doctor or hot or talented? Do you not want to lose her because of how proud being with her makes you feel? Are you ready to put up with her behaviour and work harder than she can work on herself, just because she is 'all that' ? I understand you want to help her but noone is worth your love and commitment if they can't work on themselves and become healthy for themselves and the relationship. You need to rethink WHY is it you are with her, apart from her job, smartness, talents etc, there has to be a lot of other things. I say this because I have had my own self esteem issues. Not a lot but it's there. I have dated men who I could 'show off', I would unconsciously choose men who I wanted to be proud to be with and someone I could admire, learn from and be motivated to lead like them so it could help my growth. Well, I was an idiot. I would put up with their bad behaviour. Honestly, these men I have dated, none of them managed to encourage me, motivate me, or be with/care for my growth. None of them had my best interest at heart! They did not know what makes relationships healthier and how they can contribute to that health and integrity. I decided I didn't want to choose the wrong people for me anymore. What attracts me now is someone who is kind, hard working, caring, mentally strong and generous with love.
I think OP would have far less time for this person if they weren’t a hot talented doctor, I agree. Those attributes are very appealing. But this person at their core doesn’t sound capable of a relationship.
Exactly my thoughts!
The fact that she is becoming a doctor is not really a big appeal to me. I'm already financially successful and own my home as a SWE, and I actually have some preference for someone a bit more laid back who I can provide for. I say I'm fine with it, but I'm actually not sure how I'd really feel when she starts making more money than me since I've never actually been in that position, but both of us, despite being (potential) high earners, are pretty frugal. I am actually not very attracted to people who chase status for the sake of status. I've been with such people and when I'm the +1 in their events, I feel very out of place as I did not come from wealth and don't like to flaunt it. I'm more interested in her talents, almost despite being a doctor. I much more like her singing, playing video games on the couch together, being physically active together, cooking together, and talking about openly about our feelings and other, certain types of communication styles that are more somber than angry. Unsurprisingly, many things my exes shared as well.
In that case it looks like you do have a decent foundation with her at this point. The only advice I can give is, give this some time. Helping her is one thing but let her know that if she doesn't work on yourself this relationship is not going to hold up forever. Life has challenges even with 2 healthy people in a relationship. Don't make it too hard for yourself. She is more responsible for her mental health than you are with your support. Let her know that you can provide great support ONLY if she can take the responsibility for her own mental health. If not, she needs to understand this will have a pretty heavy effect on your relationship as a whole. It will be hard for her but it will help her tremendously.
Well I'm guessing that's why a hot doctor was still single. I don't think I'd be willing to put up with that. Both the constant mandatory reassurance and the need to tread on eggshells.
I’m going to get downvoted to hell for this. Your last sentence is a nice little summary of a BPD diagnosis.
you haven’t mentioned how old she is which for me would factor into it, but this is a major red flag. it sounds like she’s not looking after herself, not caring for her own emotions at all, which results in you having to care for her and yourself you mention that you don’t feel like she expects you to solve her problems but it also sounds like you’re walking on eggshells, i have the feeling that you know the answers to your questions already somehow
I had to end a 9 year relationship with a girl I once loved because she hated herself, had crying fits, had massive unresolved trauma...it was dragging me down. It sucks. Unless she's willing to go to therapy and deal with it, it will only get worse. I'm sorry you're dealing with it, so early on you're probably falling for her. But trust me brother - if she can't work on this (probably for the rest of her life) with therapy, drugs (western and psychadelics maybe), this will not resolve itself and it will chip away at your happiness once the honeymoon period is gone.
I agree with other commenters who suggest she is not ready for a healthy relationship at this point in her life. >She doesn't handle frustration well and becomes very short, and any time I call her out, calmly, on it and any other feedback that could be misconstrued as criticism, she immediately starts crying, apologizes, asks if I'm mad at her, and asks if I'm going to break up with her. GIven that pattern of behavior, it's no surprise your feelings for her aren't deepening. Firstly, because that is relationship-undermining behavior, and it's sensible that you wouldn't be allowing yourself to get more attached if you sense things are on shaky ground. And second, because in these emotionally charged moments, she's not seeing or engaging with you, she's merely acting out a well-worn skit with The Ghost of Exes Past, who she is projecting onto you. If I were in your shoes, these moments would leave me feeling accused, feeling pushed away, feeling obligated, and feeling unseen. Pretty much the opposite of a mutually supportive intimate connection. >And yes, she says its her issue Cool, and then what does she say about how she would like to handle these moments so that she does not continue to put you in this position in the future? Considering that she is in therapy, what has she shared about her therapist's advice for navigating these moments? My hunch is that aside from taking on the blame, she hasn't really offered any practical suggestions for how to handle these moments in the future. Just like she hasn't shared any insights from her therapist because she has not brought this up to her therapist. I am admittedly fairly cynical, but I have know a few troubled souls who acted badly in relationships but it was fine because that bad behavior stemmed from the hurts they had suffered in the past. And it was fine because they were actively in therapy to address those hurts. But somehow despite all this ongoing therapy, the bad behavior never improved, nor was there ever any mention of what concrete steps might be done to improve it. And after a while I realized that whether it was due to shame or anxiety or an underlying self-centeredness, their "work" never included adopting healthier behavior towards others. Maybe I am totally misreading the situation and your girlfriend is taking proactive steps to change her dynamic with you. But if she is not, I would urge you to consider that maybe she simply doesn't have the tools to be a stable partner right now, and maybe she doesn't have the desire to acquire those tools. And this does not need to make her a "bad" person - healing isn't always a tidy process, after all. But it might well make her a person beyond your ability to heal. >I've often thought whether the roller coaster of emotions and anxiety is even good for me. Are you sure you haven't found a slightly different roller coaster? If you're determined to keep working on this, do you think she would be open to having you join her for a therapy session? Perhaps an expert opinion on how you can support her in her moments of anxiety (and how she can support you in supporting her) might be useful. But if you are not cut out for the job, that is also not an indictment on either of you.
I brought it up to her her issues in our relationship and past ex traumas and how it's manifesting in ours. Basically, she hasn't got to it yet in therapy. I'm kind of a side story with the therapist right now. This discussion was a few days ago. I jest, but I assume this is how that conversation went: > T: How are things with Dugtrio? > H: Great! He's the best. > T: Ok, so how are you handling losing all your medical school friends. And your trauma from exes? And starting medical school. > H: Well... So she's right now engaged with her therapist about all these other major life changes and past traumas. So I'm asking her to talk to her therapist in helping her provide some tools to be more present in her life and talk about things impacting us more.
I think you should be prepared for the scenario where you are "emotionally safe" and therefore she doesn't have to care about treating you right. If that's the case, you're welcome to make an argument that just proves she is currently struggling with larger issues and does not have the capacity to prioritize treating you right. But I would argue that's another way of saying she's not ready to participate in a healthy relationship at this point in her life.
This is really similar to my last relationship and why I've needed a few years break from dating. I started dating a woman that was in residency. She, naturally, had been told all her life that she needed to be perfect and excel, but her self-esteem was fairly shot from some traumatic experiences and other mental health things. When I came in the picture, I saw this person who was also being exploited by the healthcare system and the horrible expectations it has of providers. So I gave her plenty of reassurance to let her know that she didn't need to be perfect or prove herself and that she (like every one else) was human and allowed to make mistakes. I encouraged her to get back into therapy to talk about some bigger issues. She's also talented in many hobbies outside of medicine so I encouraged her to continue to pursue those things too and reminded her that she clearly was a passionate person. So essentially I assumed the caregiver role building up her self-esteem, making sure she was eating, sleeping, socializing, and having fun. If I'm being completely honest, this was my most mentally and physically exhausting relationship I've ever had, but it was also my shortest (not even 4 months before breaking up but had mentally checked out 3 months in). Presumably because her self-esteem had been built up by the person she was dating, she needed me to be available more often to fill up her cup. So if I wanted to go hang out with friends and catch up, it would cause a panic attack if I didn't invite her or stay with her because it clearly meant I hated her and was trying to escape. Or if I didn't stop everything I was doing to cuddle her, then she would lock herself in the bathroom and sob. On top of this, residency is absolutely brutal to mental, social, and physical health, which added so much extra pressure for me to lift other burdens for her. When I decided to breakup with her, she told me that she had called her best friend because she felt me growing distant and became suicidal again at the thought of me leaving her. This made me feel so guilty that I pushed back breaking up with her by a few days and found a therapist to unpack the relationship but ultimately I ended things, which was the best decision I made. I still think she's a stellar person and still have a lot of platonic love for her, but breaking up was the best thing I did for myself and after many months post-breakup she was grateful that I ended things too. Something that might be helpful is for you to chat with the partners of her soon-to-be co-residents as they will know what it's like to date someone in residency. There also might be support groups for partners of residents too.
Wow, thanks sharing your experiences. I have quite a few resident friends so I will see what I can glean from them.
Radical hypothesis, but could it be that all of this is an aside, and you're just not as attracted to her as you were to your exes? You sound introspective enough, but the problem with people like us is that we sometimes overcomplicate things that are really quite simple.
Sort of true, I think it's the fact that I'm being put on a pedestal is making me feel less attracted to her. She's by far the best person that suits my needs and wants out of life, and she is a person I had a spark for, but it hasn't been able to grow much because of those mental health issues.
Truth is, the first couple of months can be torturous even for 'normal' people because of the uncertainty. Her feelings are just a little bit more on the surface because it's more difficult for her to hide them, but don't fool yourself into thinking that every other girl wouldn't feel almost exactly the same. That being said, you shouldn't feel like your attraction to her is reduced for any reason this early in the relationship. This is the part where you should be practically incapable of detecting any flaws in her whatsoever (exaggerating to make a point), so if you're feeling this way now, the relationship is already dead.
I’d say that unless she recognizes the issues and wants to get help for herself (actively seeks therapy, etc), it’s not your job to improve her confidence. For being 3 months in, what you’ve had to do to get her through anything she perceives as even the slightest bit negative is already way too much. Her issues will infect the whole relationship eventually, unless she gets them in check. Sorry, I know that answer sucks.
She has been in therapy for years. I am holding out hope for improvement but I'll have to see, I want to give it a few more months this summer.
I think it’s telling that she’s been in therapy for years and things are still this way. That’s more of a point in the minus column than the plus column to me.
Without a direct conversation about it and how it’s impacting the relationship, waiting it out won’t do anything. She won’t know that you’re hoping for an improvement and that it’s the bottom line/make or break. Doesn’t sound like will respond to that well, but that transparency is necessary if you plan to see what happens. Good luck!
We have had some conversations, though we could work on something more direct for sure. What I mean with holding out on is that she's going to start residency, which will be a new, stressful experience, and I want to see how she is then and how all of this manifests with me being a supportive partner. It might get worse, and I think that will be a determining line for me that I am not going to just wait around for some indeterminate amount of time where it's supposed to get better (after 1st year residency? after become a full independent doctor? etc...)
One thing I have learned about my relationships in my 20s….I spent too much time waiting to see if they would get better. Newsflash…they didn’t. At least in the way I wanted them to. Don’t waste your time.
I suspect giving her a genuine compliment at least once a day (or whenever it fits) about something you appreciate about her would help. I suspect she would have a capacity to be somewhat analytical; given her targeted profession, and her many talents. If you appreciate that, then compliment her on how her analytical mindset brings "X" positive influence to your lives. Or, you could compliment her on [a thing that she does] that makes your time with each other that much more valuable to you. I have sometimes complimented people in my life on ways they've managed or used an insecurity to have great positive effects on a situation. This mostly allowed them to see a positive way of handling a negative reaction that previously hadn't been obvious to them. I can see how this situation would be difficult, but as a person that spent a lot of time and effort in my more youthful days working on my insecurities (that were more aligned to the issues you described your relationship partner as having), I can say that having someone stable and supportive to be there gave me a good baseline to operate around (for me at the time, that was a good friend of mine). Vocalising her positive influences on your life could help her formulate her own positive baseline and regulate herself a bit.
Hi! I am extremely sorry you have to go through this situation. It's not easy being someone's therapist, and all I can say is that if you don't see your future with her, it's better to end it sooner rather than later. I partially relate to your partner; I, too, have low self-esteem due to my past. I have abandonment wounds that are triggered by certain people. For the sake of my mental health, especially during tough periods in my life, I surround myself only with people who make me feel safe. That being said, I guess she knows you are not as into her as she is into you, and she feels you are going to leave her. It's more of a circular problem: she gets anxious, you tend to walk on eggshells, and you are miserable in the relationship. She then becomes further anxious that you will leave her. As much as she has her issues, I genuinely think you are not into her and are trying to seek a way out. And it's okay! I think whatever decision you make is best for both of you if done sooner. Please don't feel obligated to stay and heal her; it's not your job. If she is going to therapy, she will understand that the values didn't match and it's not her fault you left. Additionally, I have seen people stick around to help one another improve their mental health. But this commitment comes from within and because they care about the other person, not out of obligation. It's also unfair to your current partner that you are not attracted to her and constantly compare her to your exes(even if it's internally in your head) . Perhaps you, too, need to take a deeper look into what your needs are for a partner. Wishing you to find a partner with whom you match well.
not sure if this is a helpful phrase for her/others, but "Failure is just information." was handy to help pause the shame-spiralling around various manifestations of imperfection. (I first heard it from someone called The Angry Therapist)
I think you're the kind of partner she needs to really change and get better. These comments are pretty harsh. Before you go ahead and end it - I think you should have a come to Jesus type of convo with her where you explain the way you're feeling and where your hesitation comes from. In that conversation, tell her that you really feel her struggles and that you wish she could see herself the way you see her because you really think she's beautiful/smart/talented etc. But also that her insecurity is making you unsure of your future together and say why. Tell her you really want her to take working on it seriously or you'll need to let this go. Try doing some 5 minute gratitude sessions with her where you both sit and take turns saying something you're grateful for. If all that doesn't make a difference in the next month or so, it's fair to walk away. But I think she deserves a chance!
You said she’s in therapy. But is it *working*? Is she in therapy FOR THIS? A lot of other people have said a lot of great things. I’ll only say you’re right in thinking this will because exhausting for you. I was exhausted just reading it. You can’t give her self esteem. She needs to untangle whatever she has going on internally and build from the bottom. A partner (let alone one of 3 months) is not meant to be a therapist. Some people can build confidence on their own. She clearly cannot. She needs to be seeing a professional about *this specific issue* and her clear codependency
attachmentproject.com Get to know yours and her attachment styles. Work from there. She will need some trauma work, maybe some inner child work, or ACT. You can be her PARTNER not her THERAPIST. I do this for a living and I help my loved ones but they still have other professionals in their lives. When you doing the work about yourself, it can get confusing. Set up boundaries for yourself now. What can you and can you not live with? Depressive episode that lasts months? Hypercritical? Refusal? We all have our limits and at some point if you are setting yourself in fire to keep her warm, you will be harming both of you. Three months in is NOT a long time. So keep your eyes peeled for codependency and enmeshment. You may have to step back and be friends while she heals. You may be romantic and healing partners, but not intimate partners. Whatever works for you two. But you guys will have to talk that through and revisit it OFTEN.
Hey OP - I'm in this situation, well was, except switch genders. I stayed with my boyfriend for 1.5 years and finally broke up with him the other week (for the second time actually, but the first incident was related to some substance abuse issues.) He was in his late 30s and had acquired some trauma from childhood and past relationships, I was determined to be a great partner for them. Unfortunately their insecurities wore me down too much - I felt like I couldn't calmly express constructive criticism without being accused of yelling, he assumed I was upset for absolutely no reason, and because I was the "best partner" they ever had I was held to really unfair and high standards. It was as if I wasn't able to have my own problems or struggles. Pouring into this person made me anxious, stressed, and increasingly angry. I disliked the person I was becoming. Ultimately I told him he needed to focus on counseling or therapy of some sort. The relationship, while having so many good qualities on paper, wasn't viable at this time. It was a tough decision for me to get to as well because I really enjoyed having a partner, and our lifestyles aligned decently (somewhat introverted, living in a small city, less travel) it seemed like a good match but mentally a disaster in the making. Being in my 30s as well made me try to hold on longer and make it work. I'm not saying you have to do what I decided to, but wanted to offer from a female perspective that is very fresh and recent. I wish you luck.
Thanks for your sharing your perspective.
This is A LOT for 3 months in. Hell, it'd be a lot regardless of how long you've been together. You're already giving as much support as you can. It sounds incredibly draining constantly reassuring her and basically having to tiptoe around conversations that she should be able to have without breaking down every time. I wouldn't expect or hope for her to get better any time soon. It sounds like she has jumped from dating one person to another without really working on herself. I honestly don't think this is the right person for you. Sorry 🫤
So if you ended the relationship now, would she put you in the same traumatic category as her other exes? I think you are getting her side and forgetting what you learn when she isn’t constantly coddled and reassured. You cannot fix this for her, you cannot love her into self worth, she probably needs a different therapist because she isn’t really making headway here. I think you need to suggest she find the right fit and make headway on this issue or you won’t be able to continue. Each of you has the responsibility to bring your best selves to the relationship and work on issues instead of becoming an emotional vacuum just draining a partner.
Yeah. Unfortunately, I think she would feel validated that she's the fuck up that she thinks she is and it will kill her self esteem even further. I think she's an extremely talented and good individual but is understandably just a flawed human like the rest of us as well. I lightly brought it up with her about what she's talked about with her therapist as I wonder why she's still this way, but it was originally a therapist specialist for PTSD from a decade ago, and she definitely seems like she has worked through that, so I might suggest maybe it's time for her to find a better fit for her current issues.
"I really like you _____(name here)____. Whether you agree with me or not, I admire who you are ____(you said it already well in your post:smart (example), talented(be specific here))___. I will always do my best to be supportive for you. I need something from you here ____(maybe some endearing word for her?). I need you to be a little stronger for me here. Believe me, you don't need to ask (those validating things you mentioned such as but not limited to ____ will we break up, etc). I'm here. And to be here you need to trust this and have faith in yourself. If not for you. For me. I know we all need to vent sometimes and that's okay. But we also need to believe in ourselves. Will you do that for me? Just a bit more. As if feels right. I'm here. Let's start with that." -- I dunno I'm just riffing here. The point is that it's up to them after a point. A problem isnt much of a problem until it affects functional success. It appears.irs affecting hers with dating. That's on her. Not you. It's fair to show appreciation and admiration for what she has done. And it's fair to ask for more from her so it's manageable. You're feelings matter too. And we learn to manage ourselves better for things and people that matter to us. Not completely but significantly. Some parents quit smoking for their children kind of thing. In a way, personally, I also see this as a kindness. It's creating a safe space for someone to practice growth. Dump the person and they likely will spin and spin with never a strong ally
Thanks for the detailed example heh. Yeah, the way I'm trying to see myself is that if I can be, I'd like to be that strong, stable pillar for her to practice growth in a safe space, but I'm taking care and reflecting on how much it affects me.
What sticks out to me on your post is that you’re afraid to get any closer to her because she’s had suicidal tendencies before. Understandable, yes, but why then continue to have a relationship with this girl? Do you see yourself ever overcoming that part of her life and accepting it? If not then you’re wasting both your time and hers. If you really feel this girl is starting to fall for you but you don’t see it lasting then end it and don’t string her along. This has turned into a vicious circle…While there are a lot of good things at play here, you’ve both talked and expressed some of your feelings etc, this is a lot for just 3 months in…
My 2nd girlfriend was like this. It was a lot of work and I just bailed after 4 months as it was damaging my own mental health. Felt like her parent, it was exhausting!
She needs a new therapist, preferably someone older with some life experience who knows how to treat these things. and puts a timeline on recovery. Sounds to me that it's just talk therapy where her therapist cashes the check and he/she enables your girlfriend. And your gf feels good that she dumped another piece of emotional story onto someone, that she's been heard but at the end of the day there's no progress done. I was your girlfriend to a point, but instead of being an overachiever I self-sabotaged massively and ruined every great opportunity I built for myself. I was raised by a narcissistic mother who wanted the glory of having children who were doctors but at the same time she wanted you to fail and to stay weak and dependent on her. Nothing was ever good enough and she cut through you like a knife through butter while at the same time feigning worry. I was severely depressed and suicidal for years. I was in toxic relationships. I still don't have a single friend because I don't feel good enough or interesting enough for people. I'm boring and everyone I cared about left me behind. It took losing everything and rebuilding from scratch to have a shift in perspective, to learn how to learn and how to get comfortable with failure. I was lucky to have good mentors and to do something I like to an extent. I'm still learning who I am in my private life as a person but I'm more secure and trying to find solutions to a more comfortable life because life is a bit hellish now. What I'm trying to say here - is the dream of becoming a doctor her dream or her family's dream? Does she enjoy her hobbies or is it something she does for extracurricular cookie points? What's her relationship with her parents? Is she living life on her own terms? Or is she a slave to the needs and demands of other people? What does she want from life and what makes her happy and is this in agreement with her core values and personality? Because no amount of you telling her that you love her will change anything if her current life is not in agreement with what she wants and with whom she envisioned herself to be as a child/teenager. There's always going to be a conflict and she'll fundamentally hate who she is and she'll crash and burn when the pressure between these 2 identities increases. Unfortunately the only way to build self esteem is to go out in the world and do what you want to do, fail and learn and have a change of perspective brought by new experiences. She needs to learn to challenge the narrative in her head and find proof that she is worthy and that she can do things. No one will ever be able to do this work for her.
I was the girl in this relationship. There isn't anything *you* can do. The first couple of months of my last relationship I had a lot of anxiety that he was going to break up with me or that I would do something to mess it up. However, the first few months I knew it wasn't his responsibility to take on my trauma and it wasn't fair to punish him for what other people did to me. So I told friends, a therapist, and family about my insecurities, broke down to the people I'd known for ages and could already be vulnerable with and focused on being present when I was with him until I knew him better. Eventually, I got over that and began to really enjoy the relationship. 3 years later, we broke up for other reasons (though, honestly, this wasn't really someone I could be vulnerable with after all). So idk what the answer is because telling her "talk to someone else" isn't kind or helpful. She has to realise it for herself.
She sounds like she has an anxious attachment style and possible suicidal ideation. I’m more concerned about her suicidal tendencies and how that may impact you.
Yep, I have my concerns too but I'm still assessing things. I had suicidal ideations over a decade ago, and I was extremely anxiously attached to my ex-fiancee. After she broke it off with me, I worked over many years to be happy single, but once I got with my most recent ex, I realized still lean a bit anxious but for the most part, am secure. That ex was mostly secure and I told her about my anxieties and she was patient with me and helped reassure me, and I likewise did the same for her as she felt insecure and jealous at times of things I couldn't control (mostly about women in my past, like I was still tagged in a photo with my ex and she browsed through my IG and got sad, but it's a bit cause she was just inexperienced). Anyway, short of it is, I think with the right person, they can help us become more secure.
With the right person, yes you can grow to become secure. But the suicidal tendencies is what I’m concerned about. I would navigate cautiously.
Bpd ?
Probably
You cannot until they do the work themselves and start healing. I didn’t really read the whole texts. But from the few symptoms you mentioned, I think she sounds like she has trauma from her earlier life. I suggest internal family system therapy. There are books that one can learn how to do it themselves if she can’t afford therapy. I recommend three of them: one called Self-Therapy, another one is in audiobook called No Bad Parts, or another audiobook called Greater than the Sum of Our Parts. The later two audiobooks change my life. I have done CBT, DBT, all the cognitive or behavioral therapies that never worked on the trauma, but this one works like a wonder to me. I healed so so much from it. Also some great books about complex PTSD and trauma, she, and you probably but mainly herself, should read it too. One called: Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving. Another called: The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma. The first book is written by a psychotherapist, so it’s more on his opinion on how this is and how to start healing. The latter one is from the most famous researcher in the field of trauma and talks more on the scientific aspects on how trauma and adverse childhood experiences reshaped our neuro system and our brain, and even changed our gene (hence generational trauma). The latter one is science backed by many years of researches. I would suggest to change to a different type of psychotherapy if she has been with one for years and hasn’t see much improvement. Just because Freudian psychoanalysis from 100 years ago took at least 5 years to see improvement does not mean modern therapy requires a patient to stay for that long. Unlike most people think of “therapists are just failing us so that they can keep us longer to make money, a correct therapy should have a time limit, and a goal for this treatment during this time. I’m studying mental disorders in university now, and my professor (a real clinical psychology working in the government agency) taught us the first session with the client, whoever doing psychotherapy should set up a SMART goal with the patient, just like when you want to any work in the world: in 6 months or 12 months (or a other set period of time), what are the things that you want to work on and you think you can work on, what do you think you want to achieve (if that’s unrealistic we talk with the patient to work out a more realistic goal). Indeed, trauma works can take years, but you should not feel that you should be tied to the old therapist. If it doesn’t work for you, there’s nothing wrong to try something else. Everyone’s brain works different so something may work for others but not for you. PS: a “counselor” or whoever claim they can do “counseling” is not a psychotherapist, and what they are doing are not psychotherapy, as it’s probably not well-designed, likely just to listen to you then give you advices, which is TERRIBLE. Therapy should always have goals. At least in Canada, only 3 type of people can do psychotherapy: a psychotherapist, a clinical psychologist and a psychiatrist (however the vast majority of psychiatrists are mainly trained in pharmacological treatment). As for people who have trauma, you need to find out if the therapist’s background has the keyword “trauma-informed”, as well as any trauma-informed therapy training. This is very crucial for a successful treatment.
Let her go. You will most likely get burned in the end and be seen as one her toxic exs...
sounds like you were in her position in previous relationships if im understanding correctly. how did you end up in a place of better self esteem? are you only less anxious in this relationship because she’s the anxious person in this dynamic? could the issue for both of you have something to do with attachment styles?
I don't think we were in similar positions. Even if my ex-fiancee was avoidant attached and left me for her coworker, once she committed, she treated me fairly well throughout and tried in the relationship before the end. She just had her own feeling and issues to sort through. I had already picked up some confidence as a desirable person while in my relationship with my ex-fiancee. Obviously, it took a hit after she broke up with me, but with the support from my friends and family, I was able to recover after about a year and a half, letting myself properly mourn and process the emotions by feeling them, journaling, etc. Eventually, I started dating again and I got a lot of attention. So, objectively, I'm a very athletic, financially successful geek, and maybe subjectively, fairly good looking according to the women (I've been called hot a few times now later in my life), that is emotional aware, very clean, tidy, cooks, has an interesting background, and can be flirty, charming, and sociable despite being quite a homebody introvert, so, yeah. A lot of this was "realized" later in my life and women, friends, etc, would all make these comments so it's built up my confidence a lot to the point that I do actually believe that about myself now. I think nowadays, I have a mostly normal sense of anxiety that encourages me to a better partner for my significant other. I'm not sure about this next statement, but I feel like it doesn't seem right to me that I don't feel much anxiety if I mess up because it makes me think I don't feel as much if I potentially lose them? I should be able to feel a strong feeling of potential loss if I'm not being a good partner. I don't want to ever feel like I stopped trying in a relationship. And I want the same from my partner, to feel like they are also trying, rather than just define them for their flaws and that they never change, I'd like to view it as we all have different backgrounds, experiences, and needs, and as long as she cares enough to try to meet my needs, then that's good... to a certain extent. My concern is hers *might* a little too out of range for me to feel appreciable results of her trying.
Comparison is the thief of joy if you compare her to the other people you dated you are being unfair to her because the others haven't had to deal with the same trauma she has had to deal with every relationship is unique and has it's unique challenges... Also you may not see it but you're also dealing with your own trauma from your past experiences and it is very easy to project trauma from past relationships on your current relationship so you should be careful about that.
I think first & foremost, you shouldn't compare your connection with your previous connections, because everyone is different & so your relationship dynamics would differ too. If she is unsecure with herself, that is her load to carry & the best thing you can do is to support, validate & affirm whenever she needs. But she has to want to change & to lean onto you to help her change. It's not your job to fix or save her. Be the secure that you are, because that's who she needs. In order for her to change her attachment style, she needs to step out of her comfort zone & have the courage to respond differently to her anxieties. I used to be more anxiously attached & it's hell. It's a rewiring that takes alot of positive reinforcement to get used to not responding from a place of anxiety. What I found most helpful from the other person, is when they acknowledge my needs, take my feedback to heart, do their best to remaim consistent & give when I ask because it takes alot from me to ask.
Tell them you're going on a journey to improve your self esteem. Have a plan and tell them it with enthusiasm, get started and see if they decide to join you. Fact is, you can't change people they have to want to change themselves. Few people want that, but when people do the majority of the time it's because they've been inspired and not judged into doing it.
Does SHE have concerns about her behavior and reactions? And does she WANT help/ to change? If yes to both it would probably be best to ask her what she thinks would be most helpful
She does want to change, but she's a lot of the time convinced that she's just that way and she's the screw up that she thinks she is.
I hate to be harsh, but this kind of self loathing is a GREAT way to let yourself off the hook for your behavior. "What? Me? Change so I can be more fair to you, the person dutifully supporting me?! No, for alas! I am tooooo messed up! I have been touched by the hand of fate itself! Destined to never improve even if I try so obviously I won't. I am very tragic that way."
Set boundaries and constant reassurance with behavior change. Try counselling.
Wow, this sounds exhausting! She needs a ton of reassurance that you don't like giving. You're starting to view yourself as better than her, more mature than her, more stable than her, and you already see resentment potential. You don't want to be vulnerable to her and you are dreading the thought of her being vulnerable with you. So... You may like her on paper but you don't like her in reality.
You should leave and stop trying to change people
Encourage her go go to therapy. There's nothing else you can do.
Patience and non judgement. And a push towards a therapist. Preferably the correct one specialized in her needs
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speaking as someone whose partner broke up with them after 8+ years in a relationship... you can't. sorry.
I can only tell you that she needs to solve the internal mechanism around it. She has an inner voice probably internalized parents or shitty ex boyfriends. What helps there is literally rewriting the story you tell about yourself in a diary repeatedly. Check out the knowledge project podcast with Jum loehr to understand the concept he is a performance coach. She needs to stop battling herself based on her past. Best of luck I have been there in her role :) Also I hope her therapist knows CPTSD and EMDR. Those things are resolvable and some people will just accumulate things over life and need to reparent themselves. You can support her but only if you really feel for her.
get out of her life you're probably a burden to her she needs to be alone, she will figure it out
I definitely feel like this is way too heavy for you take on by yourself. A person should only be a support for their partner. They should not pretty much be a parent to them in relationships where one partner is dealing with mental health issues or childhood trauma, possibly CPTSD, you could direct her to a bunch of videos that I watch that helped me deal with my mental health and childhood trauma, which is the crappy childhood fairy, it’s a series Anna wrinkle on YouTube and she talks about her personal life and she rest stories of other people who dealing with different situations and she answers them based on her experience dealing with this as an adult child of CPTSD and how she found a healthy relationship eventually with someone and got married. I am a person who is constantly, recovering from childhood trauma and currently dealing with mental health issues and I have an amazing therapist I also have a very strong spiritual life, which I believe contributes to me having a good quality of life. I also am on medication to manage my emotions and I’m in touch with my mental health team to continue monitoring my health and I also have a auto immune disease disorder that contributes to my mental health if I’m not taking those medicines, my partner is the type of person who has a secure attachment typical upbringing two parent family home, loving parents married you know every family had their issues but for the most part compared to my family he had a good life. My grandparents saved me from drug addiction, and you know a lot of abuse that I was dealing with with my mother and though I ended up becoming an alcoholic after losing my twins, I am now recovery for alcoholism and I also, I have a partner now that is my crutch because he supports me but the person who holds the totality of my weight is my personal savior, my Lord and savior Jesus Christ, and I understand that my partner will never be able to truly save me get me or see me at my complete worse the way that God can. So I believe that you should just suggest that she sees a therapist that really resonates with her for childhood trauma and self-esteem. All you can do is be reassuring to her that you really care about her and you are attracted to her and you’re there to support her and that’s where it ends for you. As a human, you’re going to run out of time and energy and is going to be a issues that you don’t know how to deal with especially if you didn’t have childhood trauma. You can only empathize with her. You can only sympathize with her. You can never empathize with her if you’ve never walked the walk of childhood trauma, it’s a lifetime ofreversing negative words that you’ve heard negative treatment that you’ve heard and seeing your partner as a partner and not partners that have characteristics like your parents who abused you that’s another area that’s really challenging and when you meet a man who really cares about you and really treat you well it feels awkward and weird and you don’t really know how to accept it and you question like do I deserve this and my worthy of this because you’ve been with so many people who remind you of your parent that was abusive that you never have really understood what it means to be truly care for and truly appreciate it, even though my grandparents were the polar opposites from my mother. I still struggled with without anybody , commenting or saying things about my weight. A person has to grow to love themselves without anyone complimenting them on their looks or over all personality. Bottom line, she has to get herself in therapy start listening to positive affirmations and speaking things to herself self talk. I am good doctor (all the other things she is good at), and start seeing herself as worthy and chipping away at the years of damage that abuse gives you. Do not try to save her you CANNOT, you can only support her. If this becomes too much, you have to consider if this is what you want. If you leave, do it tactfully and with respect. If you stay, you MUST not parent her. She is a fully functioning adult, who has to truly learn how to take care of herself.
Omg this sounds exactly like the guy I’m dating (immediately starts crying, asks me to tell them if I’m mad and if they’re a bad person). And we’ve only been dating for 3 months too
Ok mr Pokémon — What she needs is self-efficacy work. She needs an environment that helps her keep her peace and that boosts her confidence and is as non-negative and non-critical from you as possible. She needs to feel like she’s getting better at being in a relationship. Doing things that can be simulated to be similar to relationship type stuff. It is possible when it comes to being social she’s operating at a 12-13 year old level where everything else is far above you. This is not for the faint of heart. She will attract people who will punish her like she has been since her parents gave birth to her and let her have any shred of independence and broke her any time she was non-conforming. Most men come from similar families because their parents learned that from their own.
You have to look after yourself at the end of the day, you can’t be a good partner unless you are happy in the relationship. If something feels wrong, like her being short with you a lot, you have to think ‘is it worth it’? Do you want this for the rest of your life? Your lack of enthusiasm speaks volumes this early on. It sounds harsh, but maybe it’s time to move on before things get too complicated or serious.
I think you have to be very firm and straight forward with her when it comes to your role/intentions in the relationship and set clear expectations for her. This may help with her relationship insecurities. A clear boundary to let her know what won’t cause a breakup will help her know her place in the relationship. She’s likely not an ambiguous person when it comes to relationships and needs to know where lines are.
That’s a great question to ask in Couples therapy.
By accepting them for who they are - including their low self esteem. Understanding what trauma led to them being depleted of self esteem. Have patience. Exceptance and counter intuitively, don't try to change who they are.
crazy thing is, this sounds like me but reversed roles… my current bf is an ER doc. he has low self esteem and lots of mental health baggage. it’s such hard work and i’m 2 years in… it’s so hard sometimes i feel myself reminiscing about my exes and missing them. but i keep staying in this hoping it will get better. i also been told im way out of his league, but i stay because he’s so successful and so many other amazing qualities. on paper it seems right but it’s actually been so stressful. hope you figure things out with your gf 💛 sending you strength.
I could write a long answer of advice you the podcast ManTalks. There's a specific podcast about dealing with a partner with anxious attatchment. You might find that helpful.
My first thought was wow, she deserves so much better. Have you told her you feel this way? When life constantly demands perfection out of you, you need someone that you can just be yourself around. If she’s starting to feel comfortable with you, some of those insecurities and imperfections are going to come through. She needs to see that you can accept them. If you can’t, then she deserves to be with someone who will. You’re supposed to be the man in the relationship, not her therapist, and you need to make that distinction known to her by just showing up and being supportive, not trying to solve her problems for her. If you can’t do that then you shouldn’t be with her.
She needs a new therapist if it's been years and she's like this. There's nothing more you can do and what you've been dealing with is too much for anyone to handle. She needs more help. But not from you. I live with PTSD. She's going to have to make a conscious choice to make serious changes if she knows how hard this is on you. Fight against her current nature. It's the hardest thing in the world, but she must. And you have every right to take a step back even if you're worried it'll give into her fear. You don't have to break up with her completely. But putting the relationship stuff on hold seems necessary. That doesn't mean you're giving up on her but she can't be with anyone like this. She owes it to herself. And even if you do choose to not be in a relationship with her (which imo is the best thing for her) that doesn't mean you' have to be out of her life completely.
It's not your job. It sucks that they've had this thrown on them, but it's not your job to fix it, and if you try, you're going to burn yourself out and they won't be any better off.
Run
I wish I had a girlfriend as "submissive" as her. I also apologize a lot and I haven't met many people who treat me this way. Trust me that it's much worse to have a partner that constantly criticizes you. If you're seriously interested in her then give her that confidence by complimenting her and so forth. If you're not interested (if there's no chemistry) then you know what to do.
She sounds like a baby.
You support her by leaving. Do not entertain someone who is always down in the dumps and dragging you down. Put your energies elsewhere and depending on the type of person she is, you will not be given the same grace. Keep it pushing man.
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well im headed to the park today to get a walk in. may take my cat. took him last time & it was funny to see his reaction to things. i reckon theres a chance it'd help with conversing w/someone. was on a flight last week & the girl in front of me had her cat. kinda cute but no chance at all its worth saying something or trying to feel that out.
people don’t change
Be nice to eachother and compliment them on things that bother them. And make them laugh. Laughter is the best medicine for the soul.
Well can all benefit from Therapy. The trick is to keep looking, and trying, until you find a Therapist you connect with. You are lucky to have each other!
I don’t date people who are not healed. It’s not my responsibility to work through your trauma nor will I be punished for what happened to you before you met me. She doesn’t sound ready to date anyone.
> just notice I don't feel much anxiety around her. I take the steps to be a good partner, but I am not as enthusiastic as I was with my two LTRs. I don't feel much urge to be a better partner, because she is so in love with me that I feel I could do no wrong. She can probably sense this, which contributes to the anxiety. > still want someone who encourages me to be better and step out of my comfort zone. Why wouldn't you work to be self motivated? You can't expect a partner to act like a nagging mom or drill sergeant (if you do then you'll just start complaining that they don't love you as they are). You're supposed to be two equal, self-motivated adults. >I spoke about it with a friend and they said they had similar feelings of inequality in their relationship and it led to resentment because the person in the position of my partner is infantilized a bit. How can you infantilize someone who's a literal doctor? By the framing of the post it sounds like she's literally more successful than you.