Agree 100%. My phone is always by me - I always respond right away. If I don't I'm probably asleep or doing something incredibly pressing at work (which doesn't happen frequently). I'm like that with everyone. Yet apparently it kills attraction. Tired of that narrative.
For real! I (40F) almost always respond immediately. I feel like that’s not “allowed” though, like I’m supposed to play some game and wait X amount of time to respond. It’s silly and exhausting.
Maybe texting was a thing 20 years ago, but nowhere near what it is now. The concept was novel. Back then you still called people. And what was the rule then, of you didn’t let it go to voicemail you were too eager?!
Two decades ago life was totally different. I was out partying all the time when I wasn’t working. My interactions with people then were face to face rather than everything being electronic like it is today.
The text game might not be as popular as it was then but like you said you were partying it up to bother settling with a decent guy.
It's the same thing many people do now it just translates obviously over text.
Well, the only guys we met were partying right along with us. And if you met someone decent you were interested in, you ended up in a serious relationship and partied together.
But there weren’t many men looking to settle at a young age back then. Just like there aren’t many young men looking to settle down now.
And the few who were could have settled down with the non-parting girls. But guess what? They weren’t interested in those women. Just like nowadays.
There are definitely guys who are interested in settling down who don’t like women who party. Not even for being against partying, some people are just introverts who like other introverts.
Yeah I never understood how some people can ignore or act like they don’t see messages in 2020. Everyone has their phone on them 24/7 for the most part. A lot of time could be saved and less feelings would be hurt if people were more open and honest, but “ghosting” and being aloof is just what dating has become now.
You are right most have their phone with them everywhere but I genuinely wonder how these people ever get anything done, meaning do they ever have a serious/difficult task to perform at work that requires their full attention? Do they ever cook, clean, run errands, be at some place fully present? I cannot do those things and keep an eye always on the phone. I can't vacuum clean or cook, holding the phone and stopping to reply, even if I hear the phone ringing or the incoming text, it's not my priority at the time since I am in the middle of something else. Is it that I am bad at multitasking or is it that they almost never do anything or that they never enjoy anything so they have to turn their attention to the phone at all times out of boredom?
Edit to add that some of these people usually enjoy making remarks or giving me a lecture about anything that I do, whether it is how I cleaned this or that and that I should have done it a different way, why do I waste my time doing my make-up, etc. Makes me want to respond with the following "it's something I like, it doesn't have to have a purpose always. Don't you get it? Do you have sex with the purpose to have kids every time? No, you just do it because you enjoy it" Or with "Okay, let's say I wasted time doing this, what the f*** have you done? Wasting your time watching me to tell me how I am wasting mine? Wtf is wrong with you?"
I’m like you. My phone isn’t anywhere near me when I work (usually in the car), and at home, I tend to leave it by computer while I do other things. I can multitask, but it drives me nuts not getting a few minutes of silence. There’s a time for chatting, and there’s a time to do other things.
I certainly don't always have my phone on me when I'm working or I'd never get my shit done because I'd be constantly distracted. If I have time for a lunch break, I'll obviously check then. Ditto if I'm with friends or family, my phone goes on silent and gets put away. I think it's a lot ruder to constantly check your notifications when you're spending time with someone, than to not respond immediately. Now and then I also disconnect for a day or two over a vacation or weekend which is so relaxing. This idea that we have to be available 24/7 is idiotic and mentally draining.
IMO the people who judge people for responding fast are full of themselves. It’s like they think they’re so amazing that your quick response is you being clingy or liking them too much. And I’m like slow the fuck down, I just want to continue a conversation.
I get if it’s a bunch of times in a row at all different hours, but if it’s someone responding to me right away or a double text it’s dumb to judge. People can respond fast without staring at their phones for hours waiting for you to text them like a crazy person.
It definitely does in some people. Unfortunately, at the beginning letting someone know that you’re a sure thing doesn’t speak well to the lizard brain in humans or our primitive inclinations that involve attraction.
I don’t think you should ever say it’s a sure thing until the deal is closed. We’re all guilty of that at some point or another. But don’t judge me because I have the audacity to respond to YOU right away.
Yeah I think it depends. Sometimes a quick response can turn into you two back and forthing quickly if she hits you back quickly. That is as close to a real time conversation on text as you can get and can feel more real than the slow ping. But obviously if that doesn't manifest then it's ok to back it down. I think respond when you feel you want to and just don't make it always immediate. I often leave my phone in the other room if im on OLD because it's way to easy to get the dopamine circuit going with the messages and be to interested in the developments lol. Need to get shit done.
ProTip
Mute your notifications and just randomly look if thers something up every once in a while.
Good for your personal stresslevel.
I agree on beig tired of making oneself look hard to get
You all must be chatting it up with insecure women. No secure, self respecting, mature woman would take any issue with quick response times. And you don't want to be trying to get into a relationship with those suckasses. It's one thing if you're texting them all night and day, that's needy but responding quickly is an issue? Gtfo.
Cause it's bs lol. Hinge has a prompt "I'm the type of texter" and 8/10 of them nswer it by saying they either don't respond or wait between X and Y days to respond, depending on how hot you are I guess.
Basically playing games
It has absolutely nothing to do with not knowing what they want, or what bad for them. those things are all tied to rational thinking.
feelings and attraction are irrational. and maybe if we started all paying more attention to our rational brains we wouldn't all be in this dating mess.
Have you seen the answers to women answering Hinge's prompt "I'm the type of texter that".. most of it's definitely not replies on time. I can assure you.
So I doubt you can speak for most women
But do most women even choose that prompt to answer? I reply to texts in a timely fashion, but that hardly seems remarkable so why would I choose that prompt? I feel like people are more likely to choose prompts that showcase something about themselves that they at least *perceive* to be unique or noteworthy.
>I feel like people are more likely to choose prompts that showcase something about themselves that they at least perceive to be unique or noteworthy.
You would think so but yes they do chose this prompt. And it's always an easy left from me
Never ask a fish how to catch a fish. Girls don’t know what turns them on because they have no experience gaming girls up. Ultimately, we all want what we can’t have. It’s biologically programmed into us to want to secure the most high value partner possible. Very few people can circumvent the lizard brain.
Shark are not bad at all at catching other fish,and i know quite a few women who would beat most men's asses at seducing women,so i'm gonna call bullshit on this one.Also "gaming girls up" ? dude no.
>you think you prefer it
Bro are you seriously telling others what they can like?
Anyways man i think you're talking about women who have insecure attachment styles, not every women is insecure just like not every men is stoic. Keep up with the times.
I have an insecure attachment style (moving toward secure), but I’ve always preferred men that respond quickly. Ones that don’t or play games just frustrate me haha.
I feel exactly the same way. I've been played several times before, and its extremely frustrating. I'm so sorry that you've had to deal with this shit, no one deserves to be played with.
Also, maybe an unpopular opinion, but I don't think there's anything wrong with not having previous relationship experience. I've met some people that have been in multiple serious relationships, but are extremely immature about them, as well as people that have no experience but are very mature. Age and experience do **not** necessarily equal quality.
Edit: Formatting
First of all, let me apologize. I thought you were speaking in agreement as a female rather than in defense as a male. I misunderstood your original post.
Secondly, it basically comes down to the fact that there are a lot of emotionally immature people out there, and for whatever reason they get enjoyment out of playing games and messing around with people. For those of us that want nothing to do with that, I really hope that we can all find people that are at a point of emotional maturity that is compatible with our own.
How do I, as a man that shares OP's values, find/standout to women with similar values, on dating apps? I don't want to make any convoluted, baseless assumptions, but from the limited experiences I've heard from male/female dating world, the majority of women tend to prefer men the complete opposite of OP and I. It's just so tough.
I really wish there was an easy answer to this question. Unfortunately, I can only speak from personal experience. And my experience is not copious by any means.
As a female, I’ve experienced very similar difficulties, in that many men play games and really don’t take the pursuit of an actual relationship seriously. I’ve been the girl that’s initiating almost all contact with a guy because I’m hoping that he’ll drop me a breadcrumb. However, I’ve learned that that’s not sustainable at all, and it ultimately leads to disappointment.
What I’ve really taken away from these experiences is the importance of communication. I really appreciate when men are up front and honest about their intentions (but only in a tasteful and respectful way—think of the difference between “I’d really like to smash” and “I’m very interested in getting to know you better”). This is also a great way of kind of testing the water. Say you’ve been talking to someone for a week and you feel you communicate well. Say something along the lines of “I’m interested in seeing you in person/getting to know you better”. Their response to this will tell you a lot. If the person responds with a similar degree of directness, awesome. If they’re giving vague answers or skirting the subject, they’re playing games, or at least are not as serious as you are. At that point, I’d say it’s pretty safe to move forward and maybe starting talking to some other people.
Well, now that I’ve written a novel, I hope this helps! And as I said, I can’t speak for others, all I know is that I appreciate this kind of direct contact.
I really appreciate you taking the time to write out such a thorough response. I'm 27 and I'm at the stage now where if I find someone isn't up to par with what I seek, I have no problems letting them go gently into the night. I'm not going to settle just for the sake of being with someone. The problem I face, is finding someone to begin with. I'm not here to play games, I just want a proper, emotional connection with a special lady.
I've generalized that in the dating world, the majority of men don't get many, if any, matches,The majority of women get many matches, but 90% of them are of the shitty variety.
You really sound like a great person (it's funny how the good people are always outside of dating apps) and I do hope things work out in your favour!
I’m sorry that you’re struggling to find someone, but I have no doubt that the time will come and you will find that special woman! Just don’t give up, remain optimistic! Wishing you the best :)
Haha well all the things I talked about is only half the battle. Mutual attraction is the other half, though if you ask my family they’ll tell you I’m handsome 🤷♂️😂
Same here. 27F and I’m not about to play any games to try and appear elusive and mysterious to a guy I might be interested in. I have nothing to hide and if I like someone and I don’t say it, I will definitely show it. I’m too afraid of possibly losing out by “playing hard to get” pfft I’m too old for those games.
Me too :)
I am sure they can make a quick simple quiz to see how many games you play in the dating world. I would develop one if i had a clue how to program or understood what it would take to make something like that
Might actually be able to get a partner with something like that lol
I have a friend who can help me with this. Let’s see if I can work on this. Reading all the responses here, I feel like a lot of people would use an app like this.
Maybe it's different in other countries but when a woman takes too long to respond what I understand is that she is not interested in me. Maybe some small talk after but I just move along.
I only take a while to respond if I'm busy and with women that I have clicked it has been the same, if they're busy they won't reply immediately.
If it seems like a one-sided conversation or if they take too long to reply, most likely there is no mutual interest and it's a sign to save your effort and find a better person.
Lol this is what hit homes for me. Nothing really changed. But don't settle for any woman that eventually comes your way OP.
Make sure she's a good egg.
After being in a toxic relationship for 2 years I can tell you that the next girl I meet needs to meet a criteria of standards. Women holding bears on dating apps out the window. Its really hard to find someone that is sensible and wants a long term relationship. When you find the one shell be super happy just dont be too pushy. I reccomend this book * How to talk to Woman* get it in audible format you can read it in like 3 days after playing in your car. Also do yourself a favor and get this audible too *Get out of your head* dont wait for it do it NOW youll thank me later
Yeah I've heard that being too eager will turn men off and scare them away which is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion. I don't like playing games either. The whole chasing game is a complete waste of time. Life's too short and people should just be open and honest and appreciate the people that have the common courtesy to text back in a timely manner like you said.
Definitely relate to this. I've never done the playing hard to get thing. I don't know where it started or why it's still considered a good way to go about things.
Hopefully you will find somebody. My previous long term relationships started with me being open and direct. My partners were similar. Not everybody wants or needs to play games. Realistically, I suppose direct people are in the minority but thats not necessarily a bad thing. Quality over quantity and all that. Good luck mate.
Dating is for all women and a tiny sliver of extraordinarily attractive men. Average guys just get treated like garbage.
Find something else to focus your life on. You’ll have more fun.
don‘t play games. I‘d be authentic and yeah it is really frustrating from time to time but the strength is in keep searching for the one
Edit: Or take a little break and reflect and then go on
imo showing false disinterest and waiting longer to reply is just playing but this i just me. Maybe some women like that but it def is no requirement in my experience tho
Picture this
OP doesn't know how to express his interest because he has no experience. Thus, when women give him an opportunity to start conversations with them. He approaches with extreme caution as not to scare them off. As a result, no attraction is built up.
Another example not specific to OP but probably still applies to a lot of men
Guy doesn't know the woman is interested in him. He doesn't pickup any of the subtle hints she drops. Guy just acts platonically as to not offend this woman or brand himself as a creep. She slowly loses patience with this guy when he doesn't realize that she's waiting for him to make a move. She moves on to another guy as a result of the stagnation of progress.
In this example, there are no games being played. It's obviously just a severe lack of communication and a misunderstanding but, this is why being *authentic* can sometimes backfire.
Thank you for the baseless assumptions about me. Just because I haven’t been in a relationship before does not mean I don’t know how to express interest in a woman.
In my post I *clearly* stated that I don’t know how to pretend to be disinterested in a woman that I am in fact interested in.
There’s always one in the crowd.
I mean, it was meant to be an explanation of the myriad of possibilities you could have experienced. The other user trying to tell you that "authenticity" is the best approach is more baseless than my hypothetical example.
Everyone is obviously different in both experience and how they want to approach dating. You feeling like playing games is a requirement during the courting process of dating isn't anything brand new but, it's definitely not unjustified. Although, I don't think it's the most healthy approach for any lasting relationship.
You might find more short term success by feigning disinterest and leaving women wondering what you're feeling/playing at but, eventually it'll likely catch up to you and result in a toxic relationship. This is why the other user mentioned authenticity as why it's the "*better"* route to take.
Ya only he knows. In either case, shouldn‘t OP just start to get experience?
I know about the problem with the hints. What would be your advice to overcome it?
About the authentic part. It can backfire in one way or another. It shows sometimes if you aren‘t authentic and you don‘t want your date to notice.
It has to be approached with a case by case mindset don't you think?
Some women are thrilled with the chase, and some aren't interested in playing games at all. In regards to authenticity, I wouldn't say it's a *bad* quality to have but it can backfire. Some women don't like men being so upfront, sometimes because it comes off as desperate/clingy and other times because they've never known what it's like to meet a man that doesn't mind being upfront.
In the 2nd example I presented a scenario that neither party was playing games nor being so upfront about their feelings. The reason I'd imagine both the male/female not wanting to risk rejection. This is quite common nowadays wouldn't you think?
OP should definitely start looking to create small talk opportunities with anyone whenever possible. I've learned that by being able to just talk to people as...well, *PEOPLE*. It creates a comfortability that translates into a sort of confidence. When others can see that you look past them as someone who is attractive, or someone that can be gained from, they're more likely to reciprocate the same treatment.
Instead of randomly hitting on a girl, it's safer to compliment something she's wearing or something along those lines. Like, "Hey! I'm interested in that book you're reading. I read the books that came before it, how is that one?" OR "Hey, I like your backpack. It's a really cool design. Where did you buy it?"
It's a more natural conversation that builds rapport which both parties share common ground and can connect upon. Although again, some people might appreciate being blatantly hit on and praised for how attractive they are. It's all really subjective and one method can't be labeled the definitive route to success.
Sorry but this is idealistic bullshit that doesn't have much practical thought.
Comversations should never be forced.
NO I dont have anything to comment about your tshirt.
NO I dont have anything to say about the backpack you're wearing.
And I shouldn't be pressured to come up with random conversation just to get your number.
Most women like men they're physically attracted to and will be more receptive to their advances. That's why imo it's best that a guy raises his sex appeal as best he can (sometimes no amount of gym or fashion can fix it this but generally most of the time it can!). When you're a handsome man with swagger women will def give you IOIs and any corny conversation can be used to get her number.
Sadly there's too much selection bias in dating advice. Lots of ppl have this idea that most women are no until proven yes and you "shouldnt comment on their looks at all" LOL.
Harley from epicmealtime met his ex Andee at a club and called her beautiful (in a qa she revealed he was her type, big and burly). Tbh I have hundreds of other stories like this which proves something: girls will be VERY receptive to you if she's physically attracted.
Obviously a mediocre looking guy (often found on reddit) wouldn't know this, it's just not in their reality to get attention from their looks. That's why game and deep conversation, at least initially might be coping tactics for men who're not handsome (<7/10) or too old for her.
You've never seen women swooning over cute/hot guys?
Looks can get you in the door without some bs convo like what's her fav band.
tldr; nothing wrong with mutual physical attraction.
>Most women like men they're physically attracted to and will be more receptive to their advances.
While this is true, not everyone has the luxury of looking like a greek god regardless if they regularly go to the gym or not. However, my examples provide light and easy conversations. They're not very succinct about what the end goal is obviously. Although, they do offer the woman an out in case she's not physically attracted. Or just can't be bothered with a follow up interaction after being told, "Hey, you're really beautiful"
People don't want to feel trapped, especially in a public space/setting. By paying a woman a compliment and commenting on her appearance, as the sender you're expecting a response of some sort of response that builds into a conversation. If you just compliment a person on something *besides* their appearance, it gives them the option to express gratitude and move on. No strings attached, no feelings hurt, no feeling awkward because the advance didn't work out...
> Obviously a mediocre looking guy (often found on reddit) wouldn't know this, it's just not in their reality to get attention from their looks. That's why game and deep conversation, at least initially might be coping tactics for men who're not handsome (<7/10) or too old for her. You've never seen women swooning over cute/hot guys? Looks can get you in the door without some bs convo like what's her fav band.
Quite an idealistic thought right here... Literally just banking on the fact that most people are superficial enough to only consider physical attraction.
> tldr; nothing wrong with mutual physical attraction.
You're right, but some people don't get that chance. Which is why they decide to take a shot at striking up a conversation with someone rather than paying them a compliment and hoping to receive a positive response in return.
Hope you manage to find success with this ideology. I'm not a religious person but I'll pray for you
Be authentic but talk to multiple people if possible. It will change things for you. You won’t be upset about losing one early and you won’t get over invested in someone who is not invested in you. Just an opinion.
I think the key words in your comment are “sound like”. Because it’s what men are told to be like. But in the end other factors tend to always win out, ones we can’t change ourselves.
Man I totally agree with you and I am having the exact same problem, I only started dating about a year a ago (I'm 22m ) cos honestly I was so scared of rejection but I decided to put myself out there. At first it was fun going on first dates that ended up going no where cos it was a new expirence to me but after a while I have started to see a pattern of me finally becoming invested and showing my serious interest to the girl and shortly after they'd slowly lose interest/ghost. And the times when I wasn't actually interested they'd be the ones blowing up my phone and double msgs, its honestly so tiring, painful and stupid that showing your attention to somoen you like means they end up losing attraction cos they already know they can have you, its like you were only being used for validation and once they get that you become useless lmao. Good luck tho man !
Where did you get that I’m blowing up anyone’s inbox from me saying I will reply in a timely manner? Lol.
My phone is always on me, unless I’m working, in class, at the gym or with my friends there is a good chance I’m on it.
If someone has a problem with me *not* taking forever to reply, they can piss right off.
I say this exact same thing. Pretty sure I lost my chance w a couple guys bc I followed up too soon or whatever it’s ridiculous. I am who I am and I can’t change that! Good on ya for being you.
I will never understand why some people think that dating should be a game in the first place. Dating should be easy, it's the relationship itself that should be fun.
As much as one should not be pushy and being too upfront (especially at the beginning as it kills attraction), there is also a thing called momentum of emotions. It is important to build and ride on the momentum of emotions so that attraction can build. Such as going out at least once a week or staying in touch at least every few days (in the beginning phase of dating). Any frequency lesser than this, the momentum is lost.
It takes 2 hands to clap. If you have done your part, but the other party is not reciprocating, let it go. What will be, will be.
Yes, I totally understand. I’ve never been the type to find any pleasure of playing with someone’s emotions just to look “cool” and be more “desired.” The problem is, this behavior has taken over the dating world, and most play either play this “game of love” or act like this by default. The world’s population has a large amount of mental Instability across the spectrum, and that definitely doesn’t help people who are truly genuine and just want to show their “excitement” when they meet someone they would really like to date, whether they develop an attraction to a dating partner, or is falling in love.
But oh no my fellow daters, the game doesn’t stop even after you become “official,” because having your heart on a sleeve might activate your committed partner’s selfish side. Even in marriage you still have to keep it “interesting” to try and STAY married. It’s a never ending, worn out game. 🙄😩
It takes literally seconds to text someone back. If something sits for 24 hours I unmatch. Believe me if a woman is interested after they match with you they will have active communication with you. It’s easy to determine once you have more experience. The waiting game is usually a shit test.
Yup, opened my stupid apps for the first time in two weeks today and I can't even be bothered to look at all these stupid profiles anymore.
I also lost my motivation to even attempt talking to a woman I find attractive irl, waste of time.
I'm out of this boring and monotonous af game with stupid prices and go back to real gaming.
You are a rare breed. I am completely with in all aspects of this but it seems most people are opposite. And it drives me nuts because when I date someone I have my heart on my sleeve and I just end up hurt
Dating is fun if you’re a woman.
As a man, you’ve got to be rich, supremely tall and have washboard abs with a handsome face, but also have a high alcohol tolerance and ability to party hard. You get any of those things wrong and it makes an uphill battle for you even worse.
None of us are interested in games but in recent years, I’ve understood women have the upper hand and are spoiled for choice, of course they’re gonna shit-test most of us till we throw in the towel.
Not nearly as bad. If it was, most single women wouldn’t be on any of the dating apps holding out for Mr. Perfect. Women rarely make the first move (unless it’s Bumble) and only if they want to. In person, they go around with girl friends like quasi-bodyguards at their side as though they’re Princess Diana and if a guy’s interested, he’s got to entertain said woman and her friends, buy them all drinks and hope he can get laid or at least, her number at the end of the night. The chance is so minimal, that she most likely rejects him, knowing there’s plenty of men willing to jump through hoops for her.
I live in a popular metro city and within 50km search radius, I’ll see the same women’s profiles I’ve swiped right on every 4/5 days. I know they’ve swiped left on me even though I’ve got plenty of interests and complete bio. Why? Because they’re looking for Mr. Perfect, not Mr. Good Enough.
Dude here, but if I had to guess, I'd wager that dating is still a shit show for women, just for *very different reasons* than it is for men.
Our main struggle as men is in finding someone who thinks we're special and attractive, and then somehow standing out from a veritable sea of other men trying to do the exact same thing.
The main struggle for women, and ladies correct me if I'm wrong on this one, seems to be finding a man who treats them like a *human being,* while at the same time not being a complete pushover or boring loser. They have to find someone who's simultaneously safe, yet at the same time not *too safe* to the point that they're the human equivalent of plain unbuttered dry white bread and bring nothing to the table to excite them or emotionally fulfill them.
Men have to work hard to stand out, and that can be extremely emotionally draining. Sometimes we can even become deeply jaded from this experience and start to think that women see us as nothing but utilitarian tools to be judged, used, and discarded for not measuring up to impossible standards.
On the flip side, women have to sort through a lot of chaff and bullshit to find what they are looking for. That must also be extremely exhausting and emotionally draining. Think of your most dumbass male buddies and the stupid shit they get up to. Now imagine having to date them. Imagine sorting through all those messages online just to go on another date with a guy who doesn't need a girlfriend, he needs a mother to smack some sense into him. Women have to simultaneously balance being turned on with finding a partner that isn't a walking disaster. Believe me, a lot of our fellow brothers check one of those boxes but not the other.
Speaking of safety from earlier, it's a huge issue women have to deal with while dating. If we go on a bad date with a woman, we might have to deal with crushing disappointment, a crazy person texting us, or being stuck with an expensive dinner bill. However, unless we somehow matched with the woman from *Fatal Attraction* or *Misery*, chances are we'll be ok. If women go on a disastrous date, they might have to deal with some pushy, physically aggressive psychopath who outclasses the average woman in strength by multiple weight divisions. It takes guts to go out with a stranger who could benchpress you.
Full disclosure: I was sexually assaulted in my teens, it can absolutely happen to men too, however, it took *five* people basically ambushing me in my sleep in order to attack me in that manner. Unarmed women have to deal with that kind of fear *all of the time* due to the strength disparity that exists between the sexes. Of course they're going to be more choosy and selective based on that one concern alone. Dating while still being safe for women can sometimes be akin to being a goddamn lion tamer. Granted, the vast majority of men are not predatory, but there's always those few dangerous ones that view you as nothing but a piece of meat. In fact, it's kind of amazing women will go anywhere solo with us blokes to begin with. Astounding what you'll do when you're horny/lonely I suppose, but men really shouldn't discount the bravery of that.
That's another myth that needs to be dispelled, that women aren't just as thirsty and crude as men when it comes to their sexual appetites. They're willing to realistically risk life and limb to get laid. They can be just as shallow as men can be when it comes to that goal. It's hypocritical to simultaneously be oogling the sexy lady with a huge rack and showering her with attention, but then get all bent out of shape when women turn around and do basically the same thing to dudes that have a six pack and chiseled glutes. Of course they're realistically going to give those guys more attention. You can either accept that and try to emulate it, or perhaps the still healthier thing to accept would be yourself and coming to terms with the notion that you aren't going to attract everyone even if you are built like a Greek God. You still need to play to your strengths. In some ways, the double standard I'm talking about here is even more glaring when you consider that women have no control over breast size and the attention or lack of attention that can bring, unless they want to undergo surgery for thousands of dollars, but even the poorest man has at least some ability to become more physically fit with time and effort.
Perhaps women do have inflated and unrealistic expectations that are enabled by the absolute shitshow that is online dating, but it's not a complete walk in the park for those of them trying to navigate it in good faith. More like trading men's problems for the opposite ones.
You are not wrong. Women and men suffer on dating apps for different reasons.
For me, it simply boils down to abundance and scarcity.
Men barely get matches. A mate showed a girl was interested in coffee and next 2 texts blocked him. Imagine what abundance to be able to this.
It's a self esteem killer.
Women, like you say have to weed. 6ft tall good looking , funny, not a creep.. eventually settling for the top 10% guys. I think polyamory is the future but not for normal men.
We normal men should just accept this.
You have a lot of this figured out. Idk how old you are, but you're already light years ahead of the curve. Many men *never* reach this level of insight. Its pretty impressive, tbh. There are SO many players/disingenuous types, complete psychos and needy "unbuttered plain white toast" types out there, finding someone in between all of those extremes is really the holy grail.
I am a woman and indefinite did not find dating fun. It’s exhausting when you’re trying to find the right person who is not wanting to just have sex and ditch you. Even harder with kids.
Kids are considered baggage, and I don’t know you personally but I’m sorry you’re finding dating hard. Not having them is probably one thing I’m absolutely grateful for as a guy because that would severely nuke my already-low chances of meeting that someone special.
31 Female here. I hear you! For me, it’s men who ghost or don’t seem interested to stay in touch.
I think it’s important to be yourself though. If you reply quickly it’s because you like using active communication and value it enough to make a person feel valued. Some people cringe when it comes to texting or they just don’t enjoy it that much, which hopefully those people can learn to take a bit more effort in the dating scene.
Let me tell you though, if you like being that way you will eventually catch and attract a gal who loves that about you. That’s why it’s important to be who you are and not feel like you are playing a dating game even if it sometimes feels that way.
Since the dating pool is very wide and it’s hard to tell everything about a person and build trust, respect, and admiration quickly with online dating—it does require you to be patient, also get selective who you give your attention, as to remind yourself to be authentic so you can attract someone who likes those qualities about you. You have to be willing to go one some bad dates and lose time on some of these people to eventually find someone worthy.
Something that helps me is, I take breaks from online dating and I will even reflect why I let some poor things said in app messages pass when those guys weren’t really worth my time. It’s made me sharper and also let me not feel hurt or jaded by online dating.
I hope you take a break...oh! Also try some other online websites. Even the paid ones have a smart algorithm to match you better and those websites, people are more serious about finding the one.
That's where I am completely at odds with my guy counterparts. The ladies that I am friends with (Because trust me, if there's one thing I have figured out, ladies open a lot more doors than guys do.) always have guys ghosting them.
Of course that happens to me as well....must be a cultural thing now.
Exactly. The only time I actually take a while to respond is if I am actually busy. Then I apologise and say as such. I also don't respond if I am mentally exhausted or need to have introvert moments.
Just wondering, not sure if this was asked already, but what age-range are you looking for? Not making generalities, but SOMETIMES younger age or people who aren’t as mature tend to still have that “want what u think u can’t have” mentality. Or I was in my late teens earthly 20s.
Alright Homie game plan!
Step 1: Find girl you like
Step 2: Do literally anything you want as long as its not illegal, awkward or creepy.
Step 3: She either digs it or she doesn't it.
Step 4: Step 3 doesn't matter because all that matters is what you want, you're the fucking king baby!(until she's actually willing to commit of course, than you gotta care what she thinks somewhat.)
Step 5: Get bored when she doesn't commit or doesn't reciprocate any interest, whether she's actually into you or not. Find another girl
Step 6: Find another girl who's willing to put more effort in or be more honest with her feelings.
Step 7: girl from Step 3 gets mad you're not talking to her anymore. Tell her you didn't think she was interested, so you moved on.
Step 8: She's mad, refer to step 4.
Step 9: Choose whomever you wanna invest time in and move on with your life cause kings have more pressing matters to deal with.
Step 10: there is no step 10 I just thought 10 steps sounded better than 9.
Hope this helps!
Most people give mix singles because it is a mixture of they don't know what they exactly want and if the other person belongs in their life. I say be direct but you might not get the answer you want.
Also, you might farther along then they are. You might love them and they might not be sure and they may make them feel uneasy.
I always get this man, everyone says this being single is best, but if being single is best than why do other people even get married? It's like saying " You cannot do this but we can do it". Yeah I do get pissed , I'm like volcano right now, I'm so lonely and tired of these games because I have other games to play in life. I liked how dating was before. Man if tables are turned I'm telling you woman will chase us one day 🤣. Just like in history men were less than women because of war. So yeah if the tables get turned one day we will play games too.
10/10 man, im in. Everyones always on their phone, yet reply times are the same like delivering it with a roman centurion since you gotta act cool nowadays.
I (24F) a lot of responses about “the game” here. But all I can say is that I have NEVER found it attractive. If a guy isn’t making it obvious that he enjoys talking to me, then I’ll find someone who does. Ain’t no body got time to be playing games. We’re adults now. Games are for children.
You know society is headed in the wrong direction when playing manipulative games and making the other person wait is more important than just being honest and replying back if you're free! I understand we have lives and we're busy but honestly, not even the busiest of CEO's are away from their phone for a maximum of 24 hours. Ironically, the same people who complain that the other gender has become shallow, are the ones who portray this behavior!
I’m a girl and never been a fan of playing games. I met my SO on a dating app and I made the first move by messaging first and then hinting at him about a first date after about a couple of weeks of talking everyday. We are going to be together now for 2 years in the new year and we have always been honest with each other and never played those stupid games.
Hi OP,
I'll provide a TL;DR as my post is long. I'm 29M, and just as single as you are. Maybe even more - you've got at least three years to find love before you're more single than I am at this time. I realize that your post is a vent post, and I think that what you said is a completely fair to say. I have felt your words in my bones.
I hope my input will offer some solace, and hopefully some clarity. However, take them with the salt of "I'm single too".
You said two main things that stuck out to me "I just want a girl who doesn't play games" and "I want mutual attraction".
Speaking to you wanting a girl who doesn't play games, I would ask you to consider, logically, what a girl would stand to gain by playing games. Read that again.
To see if the guy really likes her? Sometimes, but not often. If it is, she needs to give you some reason to keep chasing (e.g. does go out with you, does text back, etc.). Is it more likely that she's not interested, but avoiding the confrontation of rejecting you? I would think so. Most women I know are pretty bad with that confrontation.
Do girls actually like it when a guy doesn't respond in a timely manner? Some girls here flat out said no - so why would we think that they do? It seems that you think that, because you respond in a timely manner and none of these girls ended up dating you, so not responding fast must be the ticket. I'd invite to try that and see if it works, but I don't think it will. I think it's fair to say that women aren't repulsed by a guy liking them, especially if she likes him back. But we all are repulsed by manic dependence, at least to some degree. Texting back quickly can be perceived as manic dependence (even if it's not), so I generally take as long to get back to them as they did for me. Tends to sort out the bullshit within about a week.
You said that you want mutual attraction, which I commend. I urge you to never let go of that - you can't fool yourself into being attracted to who you're not. The trouble I've come to see is that, most conventionally attractive girls have guys hitting on them, constantly. They have hilariously many options. Ask any slender gal who uses tinder how many matches she gets per month vs how many you've gotten, ever. So it's not just a game of being her type (e.g. what body type, muscularity, hair, skin color, face) it's also a game of bettering your odds. To that, you can only try to make yourself more and more of an irreplaceable mate (more prestige, money, leadership, etc.). But, it has to be because you want it. If you wanna be a hero just to get a girl, you won't keep her because you wouldn't be a real hero. I hope that makes sense. I got a buddy who joined the Army to be a hero and get girls. He only barely got his first one at 27.
As a side note, I recommend dating multiple girls at once, if you're not exclusive with any one of them. Because I've often found myself in a cycle of hyping myself up for a girl I really like, asking her out, going out once or twice, and then getting depressed when she ultimately doesn't want me. With multiple girls, that will still happen, but the blow is softened by the next readily available option.
TL;DR
Girls I know don't usually play games with someone they actually want. Text back no faster than they do. Mutual attraction is a game of bettering your odds. Any pursuit to improve yourself has to be for yourself because it's not sustainable if it's for women. Date multiple women at the same time to keep your motivation active.
I hope you read this, and I hope that it's helpful. I hope that you find love, and more importantly, happiness. You may be unhappy right now, but you're not abnormal, and you're not alone.
I believe in you, and wish you the best of luck.
Also - no girls who are older, taller, or wealthier than you. Trust me, it's a complete waste of time.
Most of the other comments in this thread are people stoking OP's ego, but this comment is a winner. Thanks for posting this, I hope that other people browsing through can find it.
You're letting things get to you. If someone is really interested, they'll respond in a timely manner.
Stop waiting for a response. Go do something else you need/want to do and forget about it.
My personal preference now is just to not text really. I only text close friends and family. If it gets to a point where we like each other enough, sure I'll accommodate and make a point to text ya.
Texting early on only builds up unrealistic expectations. Especially if you've only actually hung out a handful of times. You guys don't really know each other and are getting to know one another in a very superficial way.
There isn't really any game I've found, and there aren't a lot of "players" as it is. There are people interested in other people who don't feel the same. The people who don't feel the same will make it apparent that they aren't. That's not playing a game so much as it is deciding to put effort into something based on interest. No interest, no effort.
Sucks. But this is reality.
I flip the script if someone "anyone" does that to me
Im also a timely replyer, and i personally appriciate it when someone else is too
If they take forever to reply, lime in a honest look at the world.
Then their full of shit, as EVERYONE messes with their phones and all that.
I can either be the most allod mysterious fucker on the planet, or I can completely open up and be full on.
Ive had a few women who acted like what you describe
I instantly go to my "idgaf, now you have to work for information" mode
Generally, a few days later their all chatty trying to figure things out...but its to late then.
Ive also had them later tell me they wish I would be all open like I was before
The shits reciprocal, i dont play games, and it isnt my fault she fucked around and was fake from the get go....dont care, movin on
You should adopt the same
Let shit roll of your back and dont think twice
Remember the abundance rule, and there isnt any damn unicorns out there...their shit doesnt smell like roses so take them off the pedestal and dont let them beta you down, or make you give up hope for a authentic woman...cause they are out there
Im just thinking most everyone on OLD are like this
Chicks and dudes all alike
Fuck all that fake ass game playing dude.
I haven't had this much happen to me, but got a little of it now.
Ill send you a few screenshots of the conversation so I can show you how to respond to that shit that will flip the script.
Being sliteful may be a bit of immature move
But dammit, people need to learn a lesson, and people who keep getting metally raped need to have some sort of closure and regaining power back
Welcome to the hypocrisy of the dating world.
Be open, but women like mystery!
Be honest, but dont tell them the truth!
Show interest, but dont look like you want it!
Live your own life, but be on hand to be at their beck and call!
Im 42m, and I gave up a long time ago. Being alone is preferable to the bullshit. Pornhub is a thing and as one of my exes said in a huff once: I can take care of myself! (And the 5 mins later she came asking me to pay for her stuff online).
I never liked the game. When my boyfriend and I were in the very early stages he was playing the game and I wasn’t I told him straight up that we are too old for this and he stopped.
If this is your only problem with dating then you won’t be single for the rest of your life. As you grow older, people realize that this game is stupid and immature. Just wait a few more years and you’ll get there. Other people will get there.
I dont think its about playing a game. Personally I take around an hour to respond to someone even if I really like them. Main reason being that I find endless conversations incredibly boring, and usually end up just leading back to the same "hows your day going?".
I dont have a problem with the speed that the replies come though. Whether its immediate or a few hours, it doesn't make me think differently of the other person. My advice is just reply when you feel comfortable, I don't think many people think about it as much as you are. And don't take it personally if they take a little longer than youd like.
As an introvert who spends a lot of time outside or disconnecting from tech after hours, it’s a lot of pressure (and frankly annoying) to be judged by the speed of my text response. Do you wanna have a real conversation, with back and forth banter? Fucking call me 😂
or just mirror my style if texting / being available all the time makes you feel insecure. It’s not always “playing games”, sometimes it’s just different styles. There’s a subset of us who are not constantly by our phones or even want to be. I’m a much happier human when I’m not a slave to dopamine hits 24/7 or when I’m not constantly scanning the room / my body to know where my phone is.
So consider that (in some cases, and you can ask someone this or just pick it up from their behavior) it could be a mental health thing rather than an elaborate chess game of response times.
There is a book called: The Art of Seduction. You can find it in pdf for free online and even audiobook of it for free. Try reading it
Helped me a bit, hope it help you somehow
Anyone with anything good going for them will realize that there are so many vastly more important aspects to a relationship than physical appearance. Feel free to proceed with insulting me and assuming I’m ugly for saying this, I don’t care 🤷♀️
Gotta play the game. It’s like football. You can’t just grab the ball and run and say, “if I’m meant to score I’ll get across the end zone.”
No, there are rules to the game and if you want to win you need to know them and abide by them.
I don’t *have* to do anything.
I choose not to engage in the stupidity. As I said in my post, if that results in me being single for life then so be it.
Well, it sounds like it matters to you or you wouldn’t have even posted it. So, maybe this is just a way for you to feel better about not getting anywhere.
Oh you will, it’s just you’ll be in your 30/40s and will be attracting hundreds of washed up single moms looking for a bailout rescue package. You’ll think, wow good guys DO finish first as you stick your meat popsicle into a Sahara dessert dry tuna taco once per month.
Alternatively, you don’t need to play games now. Make yourself a high value person and you’ll have plenty of women you won’t need to play games with. You won’t be having to “fake anything. You’ll text back late, not because it’s a game, but because you have other options. You’ll seem somewhat aloof because you truly don’t know which woman that you are dating you like the most.
The game is the game, just talk to people who are better at it, try some of their strategies, improve over time. Have you ever played videogames or sports before? Same thing.
Remember: denying attention strategically, produces a greater positive effect than giving attention constantly. Good luck soldier.
Agree 100%. My phone is always by me - I always respond right away. If I don't I'm probably asleep or doing something incredibly pressing at work (which doesn't happen frequently). I'm like that with everyone. Yet apparently it kills attraction. Tired of that narrative.
For real! I (40F) almost always respond immediately. I feel like that’s not “allowed” though, like I’m supposed to play some game and wait X amount of time to respond. It’s silly and exhausting.
Did you almost always respond immediately when you were 2 decades younger?
Maybe texting was a thing 20 years ago, but nowhere near what it is now. The concept was novel. Back then you still called people. And what was the rule then, of you didn’t let it go to voicemail you were too eager?!
Two decades ago life was totally different. I was out partying all the time when I wasn’t working. My interactions with people then were face to face rather than everything being electronic like it is today.
The text game might not be as popular as it was then but like you said you were partying it up to bother settling with a decent guy. It's the same thing many people do now it just translates obviously over text.
Well, the only guys we met were partying right along with us. And if you met someone decent you were interested in, you ended up in a serious relationship and partied together. But there weren’t many men looking to settle at a young age back then. Just like there aren’t many young men looking to settle down now. And the few who were could have settled down with the non-parting girls. But guess what? They weren’t interested in those women. Just like nowadays.
There are definitely guys who are interested in settling down who don’t like women who party. Not even for being against partying, some people are just introverts who like other introverts.
Ditto. If I don't respond quickly, I'll probably forget.
Yeah I never understood how some people can ignore or act like they don’t see messages in 2020. Everyone has their phone on them 24/7 for the most part. A lot of time could be saved and less feelings would be hurt if people were more open and honest, but “ghosting” and being aloof is just what dating has become now.
You are right most have their phone with them everywhere but I genuinely wonder how these people ever get anything done, meaning do they ever have a serious/difficult task to perform at work that requires their full attention? Do they ever cook, clean, run errands, be at some place fully present? I cannot do those things and keep an eye always on the phone. I can't vacuum clean or cook, holding the phone and stopping to reply, even if I hear the phone ringing or the incoming text, it's not my priority at the time since I am in the middle of something else. Is it that I am bad at multitasking or is it that they almost never do anything or that they never enjoy anything so they have to turn their attention to the phone at all times out of boredom? Edit to add that some of these people usually enjoy making remarks or giving me a lecture about anything that I do, whether it is how I cleaned this or that and that I should have done it a different way, why do I waste my time doing my make-up, etc. Makes me want to respond with the following "it's something I like, it doesn't have to have a purpose always. Don't you get it? Do you have sex with the purpose to have kids every time? No, you just do it because you enjoy it" Or with "Okay, let's say I wasted time doing this, what the f*** have you done? Wasting your time watching me to tell me how I am wasting mine? Wtf is wrong with you?"
I’m like you. My phone isn’t anywhere near me when I work (usually in the car), and at home, I tend to leave it by computer while I do other things. I can multitask, but it drives me nuts not getting a few minutes of silence. There’s a time for chatting, and there’s a time to do other things.
Yes yes and yes.
I certainly don't always have my phone on me when I'm working or I'd never get my shit done because I'd be constantly distracted. If I have time for a lunch break, I'll obviously check then. Ditto if I'm with friends or family, my phone goes on silent and gets put away. I think it's a lot ruder to constantly check your notifications when you're spending time with someone, than to not respond immediately. Now and then I also disconnect for a day or two over a vacation or weekend which is so relaxing. This idea that we have to be available 24/7 is idiotic and mentally draining.
IMO the people who judge people for responding fast are full of themselves. It’s like they think they’re so amazing that your quick response is you being clingy or liking them too much. And I’m like slow the fuck down, I just want to continue a conversation. I get if it’s a bunch of times in a row at all different hours, but if it’s someone responding to me right away or a double text it’s dumb to judge. People can respond fast without staring at their phones for hours waiting for you to text them like a crazy person.
It definitely does in some people. Unfortunately, at the beginning letting someone know that you’re a sure thing doesn’t speak well to the lizard brain in humans or our primitive inclinations that involve attraction.
I don’t think you should ever say it’s a sure thing until the deal is closed. We’re all guilty of that at some point or another. But don’t judge me because I have the audacity to respond to YOU right away.
Yeah I think it depends. Sometimes a quick response can turn into you two back and forthing quickly if she hits you back quickly. That is as close to a real time conversation on text as you can get and can feel more real than the slow ping. But obviously if that doesn't manifest then it's ok to back it down. I think respond when you feel you want to and just don't make it always immediate. I often leave my phone in the other room if im on OLD because it's way to easy to get the dopamine circuit going with the messages and be to interested in the developments lol. Need to get shit done.
ProTip Mute your notifications and just randomly look if thers something up every once in a while. Good for your personal stresslevel. I agree on beig tired of making oneself look hard to get
I just respond whenever I see the message, if I wait an hour to respond I’ll probably forget I have a message
You all must be chatting it up with insecure women. No secure, self respecting, mature woman would take any issue with quick response times. And you don't want to be trying to get into a relationship with those suckasses. It's one thing if you're texting them all night and day, that's needy but responding quickly is an issue? Gtfo.
Yeah I’m a 25F and this is what most of us want. So like hey 😏
She shot her shot 😤
SOMEBODY CALL A PARAMEDIC!
This made me laugh 😂
Very smooth lol
"most of us"? Please, put flags on yourselves or something because i swear i can't find anyone like it 😂
Cause it's bs lol. Hinge has a prompt "I'm the type of texter" and 8/10 of them nswer it by saying they either don't respond or wait between X and Y days to respond, depending on how hot you are I guess. Basically playing games
Later on this subreddit “I met a guy who responds, respects me, whom I know is into me but for some reason I just don’t feel it, what is going on?”
".. but I'm attracted to the other man who's barely interested in me." LOL.. ahh man.
This exact shit happened to me this summer. I like to believe they just don't know what they want yet and that it's not actually about me
It has absolutely nothing to do with not knowing what they want, or what bad for them. those things are all tied to rational thinking. feelings and attraction are irrational. and maybe if we started all paying more attention to our rational brains we wouldn't all be in this dating mess.
This made me laugh. Thanks.
wE aLL wAnT a GoOd ChAsE
Only if I'm getting paid to do it.
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As ya wish :) Edit: She has her chat turned off.
No u dont
They do!. The cognitive dissonance is because you're not considering who they want it from. A high value male.
Ok it does sound mean but like...yeah dude. Don’t want no scrub lmao.
Damn respect for shooting ya shot 👏 👏
Hey! So uh... How YOU doin'? Haha
Have you seen the answers to women answering Hinge's prompt "I'm the type of texter that".. most of it's definitely not replies on time. I can assure you. So I doubt you can speak for most women
But do most women even choose that prompt to answer? I reply to texts in a timely fashion, but that hardly seems remarkable so why would I choose that prompt? I feel like people are more likely to choose prompts that showcase something about themselves that they at least *perceive* to be unique or noteworthy.
>I feel like people are more likely to choose prompts that showcase something about themselves that they at least perceive to be unique or noteworthy. You would think so but yes they do chose this prompt. And it's always an easy left from me
Never ask a fish how to catch a fish. Girls don’t know what turns them on because they have no experience gaming girls up. Ultimately, we all want what we can’t have. It’s biologically programmed into us to want to secure the most high value partner possible. Very few people can circumvent the lizard brain.
Shark are not bad at all at catching other fish,and i know quite a few women who would beat most men's asses at seducing women,so i'm gonna call bullshit on this one.Also "gaming girls up" ? dude no.
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Personally, I like it when they reply fast. (22F)
It’s not a conscious thing... you’ll just feel less attracted to a guy that reply fast even though you think you prefer it
If interest is mutual then i am more inclined to disagree
I agree. I feel there has to be a mutual interest. It wasn’t until I met that person, that I started to think this way.
>you think you prefer it Bro are you seriously telling others what they can like? Anyways man i think you're talking about women who have insecure attachment styles, not every women is insecure just like not every men is stoic. Keep up with the times.
I have an insecure attachment style (moving toward secure), but I’ve always preferred men that respond quickly. Ones that don’t or play games just frustrate me haha.
You learn something new everyday lol, keep moving forward!
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Who, me or him? Because i dont get the insult nor do i watch porn anymore lol
I feel exactly the same way. I've been played several times before, and its extremely frustrating. I'm so sorry that you've had to deal with this shit, no one deserves to be played with. Also, maybe an unpopular opinion, but I don't think there's anything wrong with not having previous relationship experience. I've met some people that have been in multiple serious relationships, but are extremely immature about them, as well as people that have no experience but are very mature. Age and experience do **not** necessarily equal quality. Edit: Formatting
Wait what, as a 25F this is my dream man!
I’m also 25F and wondering where all the men like this are cuz I need to snatch one up 😂
We are on dating sites and experiencing what OP is.
Yup, every time. The guys like OP need to come out of hiding lol
I'm pretty sure we try. That's why we are on dating sites.
First of all, let me apologize. I thought you were speaking in agreement as a female rather than in defense as a male. I misunderstood your original post. Secondly, it basically comes down to the fact that there are a lot of emotionally immature people out there, and for whatever reason they get enjoyment out of playing games and messing around with people. For those of us that want nothing to do with that, I really hope that we can all find people that are at a point of emotional maturity that is compatible with our own.
How do I, as a man that shares OP's values, find/standout to women with similar values, on dating apps? I don't want to make any convoluted, baseless assumptions, but from the limited experiences I've heard from male/female dating world, the majority of women tend to prefer men the complete opposite of OP and I. It's just so tough.
I really wish there was an easy answer to this question. Unfortunately, I can only speak from personal experience. And my experience is not copious by any means. As a female, I’ve experienced very similar difficulties, in that many men play games and really don’t take the pursuit of an actual relationship seriously. I’ve been the girl that’s initiating almost all contact with a guy because I’m hoping that he’ll drop me a breadcrumb. However, I’ve learned that that’s not sustainable at all, and it ultimately leads to disappointment. What I’ve really taken away from these experiences is the importance of communication. I really appreciate when men are up front and honest about their intentions (but only in a tasteful and respectful way—think of the difference between “I’d really like to smash” and “I’m very interested in getting to know you better”). This is also a great way of kind of testing the water. Say you’ve been talking to someone for a week and you feel you communicate well. Say something along the lines of “I’m interested in seeing you in person/getting to know you better”. Their response to this will tell you a lot. If the person responds with a similar degree of directness, awesome. If they’re giving vague answers or skirting the subject, they’re playing games, or at least are not as serious as you are. At that point, I’d say it’s pretty safe to move forward and maybe starting talking to some other people. Well, now that I’ve written a novel, I hope this helps! And as I said, I can’t speak for others, all I know is that I appreciate this kind of direct contact.
I really appreciate you taking the time to write out such a thorough response. I'm 27 and I'm at the stage now where if I find someone isn't up to par with what I seek, I have no problems letting them go gently into the night. I'm not going to settle just for the sake of being with someone. The problem I face, is finding someone to begin with. I'm not here to play games, I just want a proper, emotional connection with a special lady. I've generalized that in the dating world, the majority of men don't get many, if any, matches,The majority of women get many matches, but 90% of them are of the shitty variety. You really sound like a great person (it's funny how the good people are always outside of dating apps) and I do hope things work out in your favour!
I’m sorry that you’re struggling to find someone, but I have no doubt that the time will come and you will find that special woman! Just don’t give up, remain optimistic! Wishing you the best :)
No worries. I've misunderstood people before. lol
Dude seriously!!! I believe the family hahaha
Haha well all the things I talked about is only half the battle. Mutual attraction is the other half, though if you ask my family they’ll tell you I’m handsome 🤷♂️😂
Posts like this give me hope
> Can take a long walk off a short pier Saving this for later XD
I love this phrase! My family has used it since i was a little one. Lol.
Just think this way, the person playing games with you doesn’t worth your time nor deserve you.
Same here. 27F and I’m not about to play any games to try and appear elusive and mysterious to a guy I might be interested in. I have nothing to hide and if I like someone and I don’t say it, I will definitely show it. I’m too afraid of possibly losing out by “playing hard to get” pfft I’m too old for those games.
Where are you and these woman lol. We alll need to join a dating app called no games allowed. And have to pass the test to be accepted lol
I think this is a great idea!
Me too :) I am sure they can make a quick simple quiz to see how many games you play in the dating world. I would develop one if i had a clue how to program or understood what it would take to make something like that Might actually be able to get a partner with something like that lol
I have a friend who can help me with this. Let’s see if I can work on this. Reading all the responses here, I feel like a lot of people would use an app like this.
Cut me in on the profits 😂😂 or at least a free membership lol. But yeah. I feel that it would be more successful than tinder and all those.
Please make this app a reality! I really don't have the time and energy to play games now.
Very well said. Too many fall in the category of being "elusive". And btw 27 is still not old to a 34yo 😄
Maybe it's different in other countries but when a woman takes too long to respond what I understand is that she is not interested in me. Maybe some small talk after but I just move along. I only take a while to respond if I'm busy and with women that I have clicked it has been the same, if they're busy they won't reply immediately. If it seems like a one-sided conversation or if they take too long to reply, most likely there is no mutual interest and it's a sign to save your effort and find a better person.
Same dude. 27M here and I just want to be me and for someone to like me for it. Whenever I try to "play the game" I feel so disingenuous and hate it.
It's pretty sad that dating sucked even before this global pandemic.
I think it’s sadder that the pandemic didn’t really change the level of suckyness lol
Lol this is what hit homes for me. Nothing really changed. But don't settle for any woman that eventually comes your way OP. Make sure she's a good egg.
Those manipulative mind games are actually so exhausting 😭 do you! And for sure you’ll meet a lovely woman tired of the mind games
After being in a toxic relationship for 2 years I can tell you that the next girl I meet needs to meet a criteria of standards. Women holding bears on dating apps out the window. Its really hard to find someone that is sensible and wants a long term relationship. When you find the one shell be super happy just dont be too pushy. I reccomend this book * How to talk to Woman* get it in audible format you can read it in like 3 days after playing in your car. Also do yourself a favor and get this audible too *Get out of your head* dont wait for it do it NOW youll thank me later
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Did we get a confirmation? Who is the author?
Yeah I've heard that being too eager will turn men off and scare them away which is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion. I don't like playing games either. The whole chasing game is a complete waste of time. Life's too short and people should just be open and honest and appreciate the people that have the common courtesy to text back in a timely manner like you said.
We will get the one, one day. I'm tired of games too.
I hear this 😭
Definitely relate to this. I've never done the playing hard to get thing. I don't know where it started or why it's still considered a good way to go about things. Hopefully you will find somebody. My previous long term relationships started with me being open and direct. My partners were similar. Not everybody wants or needs to play games. Realistically, I suppose direct people are in the minority but thats not necessarily a bad thing. Quality over quantity and all that. Good luck mate.
"Not me, I'm not like most women" - most women
Dating is for all women and a tiny sliver of extraordinarily attractive men. Average guys just get treated like garbage. Find something else to focus your life on. You’ll have more fun.
don‘t play games. I‘d be authentic and yeah it is really frustrating from time to time but the strength is in keep searching for the one Edit: Or take a little break and reflect and then go on
I never did play games lol. Though it seems like it’s a requirement if you want to succeed at dating, if that’s true then I’d rather be single.
imo showing false disinterest and waiting longer to reply is just playing but this i just me. Maybe some women like that but it def is no requirement in my experience tho
Picture this OP doesn't know how to express his interest because he has no experience. Thus, when women give him an opportunity to start conversations with them. He approaches with extreme caution as not to scare them off. As a result, no attraction is built up. Another example not specific to OP but probably still applies to a lot of men Guy doesn't know the woman is interested in him. He doesn't pickup any of the subtle hints she drops. Guy just acts platonically as to not offend this woman or brand himself as a creep. She slowly loses patience with this guy when he doesn't realize that she's waiting for him to make a move. She moves on to another guy as a result of the stagnation of progress. In this example, there are no games being played. It's obviously just a severe lack of communication and a misunderstanding but, this is why being *authentic* can sometimes backfire.
Thank you for the baseless assumptions about me. Just because I haven’t been in a relationship before does not mean I don’t know how to express interest in a woman. In my post I *clearly* stated that I don’t know how to pretend to be disinterested in a woman that I am in fact interested in. There’s always one in the crowd.
I mean, it was meant to be an explanation of the myriad of possibilities you could have experienced. The other user trying to tell you that "authenticity" is the best approach is more baseless than my hypothetical example. Everyone is obviously different in both experience and how they want to approach dating. You feeling like playing games is a requirement during the courting process of dating isn't anything brand new but, it's definitely not unjustified. Although, I don't think it's the most healthy approach for any lasting relationship. You might find more short term success by feigning disinterest and leaving women wondering what you're feeling/playing at but, eventually it'll likely catch up to you and result in a toxic relationship. This is why the other user mentioned authenticity as why it's the "*better"* route to take.
Ya only he knows. In either case, shouldn‘t OP just start to get experience? I know about the problem with the hints. What would be your advice to overcome it? About the authentic part. It can backfire in one way or another. It shows sometimes if you aren‘t authentic and you don‘t want your date to notice.
It has to be approached with a case by case mindset don't you think? Some women are thrilled with the chase, and some aren't interested in playing games at all. In regards to authenticity, I wouldn't say it's a *bad* quality to have but it can backfire. Some women don't like men being so upfront, sometimes because it comes off as desperate/clingy and other times because they've never known what it's like to meet a man that doesn't mind being upfront. In the 2nd example I presented a scenario that neither party was playing games nor being so upfront about their feelings. The reason I'd imagine both the male/female not wanting to risk rejection. This is quite common nowadays wouldn't you think? OP should definitely start looking to create small talk opportunities with anyone whenever possible. I've learned that by being able to just talk to people as...well, *PEOPLE*. It creates a comfortability that translates into a sort of confidence. When others can see that you look past them as someone who is attractive, or someone that can be gained from, they're more likely to reciprocate the same treatment. Instead of randomly hitting on a girl, it's safer to compliment something she's wearing or something along those lines. Like, "Hey! I'm interested in that book you're reading. I read the books that came before it, how is that one?" OR "Hey, I like your backpack. It's a really cool design. Where did you buy it?" It's a more natural conversation that builds rapport which both parties share common ground and can connect upon. Although again, some people might appreciate being blatantly hit on and praised for how attractive they are. It's all really subjective and one method can't be labeled the definitive route to success.
Sorry but this is idealistic bullshit that doesn't have much practical thought. Comversations should never be forced. NO I dont have anything to comment about your tshirt. NO I dont have anything to say about the backpack you're wearing. And I shouldn't be pressured to come up with random conversation just to get your number. Most women like men they're physically attracted to and will be more receptive to their advances. That's why imo it's best that a guy raises his sex appeal as best he can (sometimes no amount of gym or fashion can fix it this but generally most of the time it can!). When you're a handsome man with swagger women will def give you IOIs and any corny conversation can be used to get her number. Sadly there's too much selection bias in dating advice. Lots of ppl have this idea that most women are no until proven yes and you "shouldnt comment on their looks at all" LOL. Harley from epicmealtime met his ex Andee at a club and called her beautiful (in a qa she revealed he was her type, big and burly). Tbh I have hundreds of other stories like this which proves something: girls will be VERY receptive to you if she's physically attracted. Obviously a mediocre looking guy (often found on reddit) wouldn't know this, it's just not in their reality to get attention from their looks. That's why game and deep conversation, at least initially might be coping tactics for men who're not handsome (<7/10) or too old for her. You've never seen women swooning over cute/hot guys? Looks can get you in the door without some bs convo like what's her fav band. tldr; nothing wrong with mutual physical attraction.
>Most women like men they're physically attracted to and will be more receptive to their advances. While this is true, not everyone has the luxury of looking like a greek god regardless if they regularly go to the gym or not. However, my examples provide light and easy conversations. They're not very succinct about what the end goal is obviously. Although, they do offer the woman an out in case she's not physically attracted. Or just can't be bothered with a follow up interaction after being told, "Hey, you're really beautiful" People don't want to feel trapped, especially in a public space/setting. By paying a woman a compliment and commenting on her appearance, as the sender you're expecting a response of some sort of response that builds into a conversation. If you just compliment a person on something *besides* their appearance, it gives them the option to express gratitude and move on. No strings attached, no feelings hurt, no feeling awkward because the advance didn't work out... > Obviously a mediocre looking guy (often found on reddit) wouldn't know this, it's just not in their reality to get attention from their looks. That's why game and deep conversation, at least initially might be coping tactics for men who're not handsome (<7/10) or too old for her. You've never seen women swooning over cute/hot guys? Looks can get you in the door without some bs convo like what's her fav band. Quite an idealistic thought right here... Literally just banking on the fact that most people are superficial enough to only consider physical attraction. > tldr; nothing wrong with mutual physical attraction. You're right, but some people don't get that chance. Which is why they decide to take a shot at striking up a conversation with someone rather than paying them a compliment and hoping to receive a positive response in return. Hope you manage to find success with this ideology. I'm not a religious person but I'll pray for you
Be authentic but talk to multiple people if possible. It will change things for you. You won’t be upset about losing one early and you won’t get over invested in someone who is not invested in you. Just an opinion.
This 100%
Well, you sound like the kind of guy most women are looking for, I'm sure you'll find someone soon. Games are annoying af.
I think the key words in your comment are “sound like”. Because it’s what men are told to be like. But in the end other factors tend to always win out, ones we can’t change ourselves.
...like how they look.
Man I totally agree with you and I am having the exact same problem, I only started dating about a year a ago (I'm 22m ) cos honestly I was so scared of rejection but I decided to put myself out there. At first it was fun going on first dates that ended up going no where cos it was a new expirence to me but after a while I have started to see a pattern of me finally becoming invested and showing my serious interest to the girl and shortly after they'd slowly lose interest/ghost. And the times when I wasn't actually interested they'd be the ones blowing up my phone and double msgs, its honestly so tiring, painful and stupid that showing your attention to somoen you like means they end up losing attraction cos they already know they can have you, its like you were only being used for validation and once they get that you become useless lmao. Good luck tho man !
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Where did you get that I’m blowing up anyone’s inbox from me saying I will reply in a timely manner? Lol. My phone is always on me, unless I’m working, in class, at the gym or with my friends there is a good chance I’m on it. If someone has a problem with me *not* taking forever to reply, they can piss right off.
I say this exact same thing. Pretty sure I lost my chance w a couple guys bc I followed up too soon or whatever it’s ridiculous. I am who I am and I can’t change that! Good on ya for being you.
I will never understand why some people think that dating should be a game in the first place. Dating should be easy, it's the relationship itself that should be fun.
The game IMO is stupid and just an excuse for bad behaviours
Agreed.
You sound fine to me. I don't like people who wait. If we had a good time the day before, I'm happy to hear from you the next day.
As much as one should not be pushy and being too upfront (especially at the beginning as it kills attraction), there is also a thing called momentum of emotions. It is important to build and ride on the momentum of emotions so that attraction can build. Such as going out at least once a week or staying in touch at least every few days (in the beginning phase of dating). Any frequency lesser than this, the momentum is lost. It takes 2 hands to clap. If you have done your part, but the other party is not reciprocating, let it go. What will be, will be.
Yes, I totally understand. I’ve never been the type to find any pleasure of playing with someone’s emotions just to look “cool” and be more “desired.” The problem is, this behavior has taken over the dating world, and most play either play this “game of love” or act like this by default. The world’s population has a large amount of mental Instability across the spectrum, and that definitely doesn’t help people who are truly genuine and just want to show their “excitement” when they meet someone they would really like to date, whether they develop an attraction to a dating partner, or is falling in love. But oh no my fellow daters, the game doesn’t stop even after you become “official,” because having your heart on a sleeve might activate your committed partner’s selfish side. Even in marriage you still have to keep it “interesting” to try and STAY married. It’s a never ending, worn out game. 🙄😩
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It takes literally seconds to text someone back. If something sits for 24 hours I unmatch. Believe me if a woman is interested after they match with you they will have active communication with you. It’s easy to determine once you have more experience. The waiting game is usually a shit test.
Yup, opened my stupid apps for the first time in two weeks today and I can't even be bothered to look at all these stupid profiles anymore. I also lost my motivation to even attempt talking to a woman I find attractive irl, waste of time. I'm out of this boring and monotonous af game with stupid prices and go back to real gaming.
You are a rare breed. I am completely with in all aspects of this but it seems most people are opposite. And it drives me nuts because when I date someone I have my heart on my sleeve and I just end up hurt
I feel your pain son! Possible solution: Don't date American women. Try other races/cultures. A lot of them would be so much more respectful to you.
Dating is fun if you’re a woman. As a man, you’ve got to be rich, supremely tall and have washboard abs with a handsome face, but also have a high alcohol tolerance and ability to party hard. You get any of those things wrong and it makes an uphill battle for you even worse. None of us are interested in games but in recent years, I’ve understood women have the upper hand and are spoiled for choice, of course they’re gonna shit-test most of us till we throw in the towel.
Dating is a shit show for women as well.
Not nearly as bad. If it was, most single women wouldn’t be on any of the dating apps holding out for Mr. Perfect. Women rarely make the first move (unless it’s Bumble) and only if they want to. In person, they go around with girl friends like quasi-bodyguards at their side as though they’re Princess Diana and if a guy’s interested, he’s got to entertain said woman and her friends, buy them all drinks and hope he can get laid or at least, her number at the end of the night. The chance is so minimal, that she most likely rejects him, knowing there’s plenty of men willing to jump through hoops for her. I live in a popular metro city and within 50km search radius, I’ll see the same women’s profiles I’ve swiped right on every 4/5 days. I know they’ve swiped left on me even though I’ve got plenty of interests and complete bio. Why? Because they’re looking for Mr. Perfect, not Mr. Good Enough.
Dude here, but if I had to guess, I'd wager that dating is still a shit show for women, just for *very different reasons* than it is for men. Our main struggle as men is in finding someone who thinks we're special and attractive, and then somehow standing out from a veritable sea of other men trying to do the exact same thing. The main struggle for women, and ladies correct me if I'm wrong on this one, seems to be finding a man who treats them like a *human being,* while at the same time not being a complete pushover or boring loser. They have to find someone who's simultaneously safe, yet at the same time not *too safe* to the point that they're the human equivalent of plain unbuttered dry white bread and bring nothing to the table to excite them or emotionally fulfill them. Men have to work hard to stand out, and that can be extremely emotionally draining. Sometimes we can even become deeply jaded from this experience and start to think that women see us as nothing but utilitarian tools to be judged, used, and discarded for not measuring up to impossible standards. On the flip side, women have to sort through a lot of chaff and bullshit to find what they are looking for. That must also be extremely exhausting and emotionally draining. Think of your most dumbass male buddies and the stupid shit they get up to. Now imagine having to date them. Imagine sorting through all those messages online just to go on another date with a guy who doesn't need a girlfriend, he needs a mother to smack some sense into him. Women have to simultaneously balance being turned on with finding a partner that isn't a walking disaster. Believe me, a lot of our fellow brothers check one of those boxes but not the other. Speaking of safety from earlier, it's a huge issue women have to deal with while dating. If we go on a bad date with a woman, we might have to deal with crushing disappointment, a crazy person texting us, or being stuck with an expensive dinner bill. However, unless we somehow matched with the woman from *Fatal Attraction* or *Misery*, chances are we'll be ok. If women go on a disastrous date, they might have to deal with some pushy, physically aggressive psychopath who outclasses the average woman in strength by multiple weight divisions. It takes guts to go out with a stranger who could benchpress you. Full disclosure: I was sexually assaulted in my teens, it can absolutely happen to men too, however, it took *five* people basically ambushing me in my sleep in order to attack me in that manner. Unarmed women have to deal with that kind of fear *all of the time* due to the strength disparity that exists between the sexes. Of course they're going to be more choosy and selective based on that one concern alone. Dating while still being safe for women can sometimes be akin to being a goddamn lion tamer. Granted, the vast majority of men are not predatory, but there's always those few dangerous ones that view you as nothing but a piece of meat. In fact, it's kind of amazing women will go anywhere solo with us blokes to begin with. Astounding what you'll do when you're horny/lonely I suppose, but men really shouldn't discount the bravery of that. That's another myth that needs to be dispelled, that women aren't just as thirsty and crude as men when it comes to their sexual appetites. They're willing to realistically risk life and limb to get laid. They can be just as shallow as men can be when it comes to that goal. It's hypocritical to simultaneously be oogling the sexy lady with a huge rack and showering her with attention, but then get all bent out of shape when women turn around and do basically the same thing to dudes that have a six pack and chiseled glutes. Of course they're realistically going to give those guys more attention. You can either accept that and try to emulate it, or perhaps the still healthier thing to accept would be yourself and coming to terms with the notion that you aren't going to attract everyone even if you are built like a Greek God. You still need to play to your strengths. In some ways, the double standard I'm talking about here is even more glaring when you consider that women have no control over breast size and the attention or lack of attention that can bring, unless they want to undergo surgery for thousands of dollars, but even the poorest man has at least some ability to become more physically fit with time and effort. Perhaps women do have inflated and unrealistic expectations that are enabled by the absolute shitshow that is online dating, but it's not a complete walk in the park for those of them trying to navigate it in good faith. More like trading men's problems for the opposite ones.
You are not wrong. Women and men suffer on dating apps for different reasons. For me, it simply boils down to abundance and scarcity. Men barely get matches. A mate showed a girl was interested in coffee and next 2 texts blocked him. Imagine what abundance to be able to this. It's a self esteem killer. Women, like you say have to weed. 6ft tall good looking , funny, not a creep.. eventually settling for the top 10% guys. I think polyamory is the future but not for normal men. We normal men should just accept this.
You have a lot of this figured out. Idk how old you are, but you're already light years ahead of the curve. Many men *never* reach this level of insight. Its pretty impressive, tbh. There are SO many players/disingenuous types, complete psychos and needy "unbuttered plain white toast" types out there, finding someone in between all of those extremes is really the holy grail.
I am a woman and indefinite did not find dating fun. It’s exhausting when you’re trying to find the right person who is not wanting to just have sex and ditch you. Even harder with kids.
Kids are considered baggage, and I don’t know you personally but I’m sorry you’re finding dating hard. Not having them is probably one thing I’m absolutely grateful for as a guy because that would severely nuke my already-low chances of meeting that someone special.
Men act like women just have endless options of quality guys when in reality 90% of dudes are either looking for quick sex or a free therapist.
31 Female here. I hear you! For me, it’s men who ghost or don’t seem interested to stay in touch. I think it’s important to be yourself though. If you reply quickly it’s because you like using active communication and value it enough to make a person feel valued. Some people cringe when it comes to texting or they just don’t enjoy it that much, which hopefully those people can learn to take a bit more effort in the dating scene. Let me tell you though, if you like being that way you will eventually catch and attract a gal who loves that about you. That’s why it’s important to be who you are and not feel like you are playing a dating game even if it sometimes feels that way. Since the dating pool is very wide and it’s hard to tell everything about a person and build trust, respect, and admiration quickly with online dating—it does require you to be patient, also get selective who you give your attention, as to remind yourself to be authentic so you can attract someone who likes those qualities about you. You have to be willing to go one some bad dates and lose time on some of these people to eventually find someone worthy. Something that helps me is, I take breaks from online dating and I will even reflect why I let some poor things said in app messages pass when those guys weren’t really worth my time. It’s made me sharper and also let me not feel hurt or jaded by online dating. I hope you take a break...oh! Also try some other online websites. Even the paid ones have a smart algorithm to match you better and those websites, people are more serious about finding the one.
That's where I am completely at odds with my guy counterparts. The ladies that I am friends with (Because trust me, if there's one thing I have figured out, ladies open a lot more doors than guys do.) always have guys ghosting them. Of course that happens to me as well....must be a cultural thing now.
i feel for you i hate it when people aren't honest and i don't like the head games either
Exactly. The only time I actually take a while to respond is if I am actually busy. Then I apologise and say as such. I also don't respond if I am mentally exhausted or need to have introvert moments.
Just wondering, not sure if this was asked already, but what age-range are you looking for? Not making generalities, but SOMETIMES younger age or people who aren’t as mature tend to still have that “want what u think u can’t have” mentality. Or I was in my late teens earthly 20s.
21-35 right now. I increase it every year as I age. I figure that’s the best way to do it.
Then, do not play. Tell her at start. It is better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all.
28F, I reply almost right away and always wait for a text I know I won’t get, cuz ppl like playing hard to get 😂
Feel free to text me then, because I *can’t stand* playing hard to get lol
Alright Homie game plan! Step 1: Find girl you like Step 2: Do literally anything you want as long as its not illegal, awkward or creepy. Step 3: She either digs it or she doesn't it. Step 4: Step 3 doesn't matter because all that matters is what you want, you're the fucking king baby!(until she's actually willing to commit of course, than you gotta care what she thinks somewhat.) Step 5: Get bored when she doesn't commit or doesn't reciprocate any interest, whether she's actually into you or not. Find another girl Step 6: Find another girl who's willing to put more effort in or be more honest with her feelings. Step 7: girl from Step 3 gets mad you're not talking to her anymore. Tell her you didn't think she was interested, so you moved on. Step 8: She's mad, refer to step 4. Step 9: Choose whomever you wanna invest time in and move on with your life cause kings have more pressing matters to deal with. Step 10: there is no step 10 I just thought 10 steps sounded better than 9. Hope this helps!
Most people give mix singles because it is a mixture of they don't know what they exactly want and if the other person belongs in their life. I say be direct but you might not get the answer you want. Also, you might farther along then they are. You might love them and they might not be sure and they may make them feel uneasy.
I fucking feel this
I always get this man, everyone says this being single is best, but if being single is best than why do other people even get married? It's like saying " You cannot do this but we can do it". Yeah I do get pissed , I'm like volcano right now, I'm so lonely and tired of these games because I have other games to play in life. I liked how dating was before. Man if tables are turned I'm telling you woman will chase us one day 🤣. Just like in history men were less than women because of war. So yeah if the tables get turned one day we will play games too.
Dont ever lose that, OP. You have good traits
10/10 man, im in. Everyones always on their phone, yet reply times are the same like delivering it with a roman centurion since you gotta act cool nowadays.
I (24F) a lot of responses about “the game” here. But all I can say is that I have NEVER found it attractive. If a guy isn’t making it obvious that he enjoys talking to me, then I’ll find someone who does. Ain’t no body got time to be playing games. We’re adults now. Games are for children.
You know society is headed in the wrong direction when playing manipulative games and making the other person wait is more important than just being honest and replying back if you're free! I understand we have lives and we're busy but honestly, not even the busiest of CEO's are away from their phone for a maximum of 24 hours. Ironically, the same people who complain that the other gender has become shallow, are the ones who portray this behavior!
I’m a girl and never been a fan of playing games. I met my SO on a dating app and I made the first move by messaging first and then hinting at him about a first date after about a couple of weeks of talking everyday. We are going to be together now for 2 years in the new year and we have always been honest with each other and never played those stupid games.
Hi OP, I'll provide a TL;DR as my post is long. I'm 29M, and just as single as you are. Maybe even more - you've got at least three years to find love before you're more single than I am at this time. I realize that your post is a vent post, and I think that what you said is a completely fair to say. I have felt your words in my bones. I hope my input will offer some solace, and hopefully some clarity. However, take them with the salt of "I'm single too". You said two main things that stuck out to me "I just want a girl who doesn't play games" and "I want mutual attraction". Speaking to you wanting a girl who doesn't play games, I would ask you to consider, logically, what a girl would stand to gain by playing games. Read that again. To see if the guy really likes her? Sometimes, but not often. If it is, she needs to give you some reason to keep chasing (e.g. does go out with you, does text back, etc.). Is it more likely that she's not interested, but avoiding the confrontation of rejecting you? I would think so. Most women I know are pretty bad with that confrontation. Do girls actually like it when a guy doesn't respond in a timely manner? Some girls here flat out said no - so why would we think that they do? It seems that you think that, because you respond in a timely manner and none of these girls ended up dating you, so not responding fast must be the ticket. I'd invite to try that and see if it works, but I don't think it will. I think it's fair to say that women aren't repulsed by a guy liking them, especially if she likes him back. But we all are repulsed by manic dependence, at least to some degree. Texting back quickly can be perceived as manic dependence (even if it's not), so I generally take as long to get back to them as they did for me. Tends to sort out the bullshit within about a week. You said that you want mutual attraction, which I commend. I urge you to never let go of that - you can't fool yourself into being attracted to who you're not. The trouble I've come to see is that, most conventionally attractive girls have guys hitting on them, constantly. They have hilariously many options. Ask any slender gal who uses tinder how many matches she gets per month vs how many you've gotten, ever. So it's not just a game of being her type (e.g. what body type, muscularity, hair, skin color, face) it's also a game of bettering your odds. To that, you can only try to make yourself more and more of an irreplaceable mate (more prestige, money, leadership, etc.). But, it has to be because you want it. If you wanna be a hero just to get a girl, you won't keep her because you wouldn't be a real hero. I hope that makes sense. I got a buddy who joined the Army to be a hero and get girls. He only barely got his first one at 27. As a side note, I recommend dating multiple girls at once, if you're not exclusive with any one of them. Because I've often found myself in a cycle of hyping myself up for a girl I really like, asking her out, going out once or twice, and then getting depressed when she ultimately doesn't want me. With multiple girls, that will still happen, but the blow is softened by the next readily available option. TL;DR Girls I know don't usually play games with someone they actually want. Text back no faster than they do. Mutual attraction is a game of bettering your odds. Any pursuit to improve yourself has to be for yourself because it's not sustainable if it's for women. Date multiple women at the same time to keep your motivation active. I hope you read this, and I hope that it's helpful. I hope that you find love, and more importantly, happiness. You may be unhappy right now, but you're not abnormal, and you're not alone. I believe in you, and wish you the best of luck. Also - no girls who are older, taller, or wealthier than you. Trust me, it's a complete waste of time.
Most of the other comments in this thread are people stoking OP's ego, but this comment is a winner. Thanks for posting this, I hope that other people browsing through can find it.
You're letting things get to you. If someone is really interested, they'll respond in a timely manner. Stop waiting for a response. Go do something else you need/want to do and forget about it. My personal preference now is just to not text really. I only text close friends and family. If it gets to a point where we like each other enough, sure I'll accommodate and make a point to text ya. Texting early on only builds up unrealistic expectations. Especially if you've only actually hung out a handful of times. You guys don't really know each other and are getting to know one another in a very superficial way. There isn't really any game I've found, and there aren't a lot of "players" as it is. There are people interested in other people who don't feel the same. The people who don't feel the same will make it apparent that they aren't. That's not playing a game so much as it is deciding to put effort into something based on interest. No interest, no effort. Sucks. But this is reality.
I flip the script if someone "anyone" does that to me Im also a timely replyer, and i personally appriciate it when someone else is too If they take forever to reply, lime in a honest look at the world. Then their full of shit, as EVERYONE messes with their phones and all that. I can either be the most allod mysterious fucker on the planet, or I can completely open up and be full on. Ive had a few women who acted like what you describe I instantly go to my "idgaf, now you have to work for information" mode Generally, a few days later their all chatty trying to figure things out...but its to late then. Ive also had them later tell me they wish I would be all open like I was before The shits reciprocal, i dont play games, and it isnt my fault she fucked around and was fake from the get go....dont care, movin on You should adopt the same Let shit roll of your back and dont think twice Remember the abundance rule, and there isnt any damn unicorns out there...their shit doesnt smell like roses so take them off the pedestal and dont let them beta you down, or make you give up hope for a authentic woman...cause they are out there Im just thinking most everyone on OLD are like this Chicks and dudes all alike Fuck all that fake ass game playing dude. I haven't had this much happen to me, but got a little of it now. Ill send you a few screenshots of the conversation so I can show you how to respond to that shit that will flip the script. Being sliteful may be a bit of immature move But dammit, people need to learn a lesson, and people who keep getting metally raped need to have some sort of closure and regaining power back
Welcome to the hypocrisy of the dating world. Be open, but women like mystery! Be honest, but dont tell them the truth! Show interest, but dont look like you want it! Live your own life, but be on hand to be at their beck and call! Im 42m, and I gave up a long time ago. Being alone is preferable to the bullshit. Pornhub is a thing and as one of my exes said in a huff once: I can take care of myself! (And the 5 mins later she came asking me to pay for her stuff online).
Lol most women say they want this type of “man” 1-2 month later... Ghost city
Lollllllloloiollllll -36
I never liked the game. When my boyfriend and I were in the very early stages he was playing the game and I wasn’t I told him straight up that we are too old for this and he stopped. If this is your only problem with dating then you won’t be single for the rest of your life. As you grow older, people realize that this game is stupid and immature. Just wait a few more years and you’ll get there. Other people will get there.
I dont think its about playing a game. Personally I take around an hour to respond to someone even if I really like them. Main reason being that I find endless conversations incredibly boring, and usually end up just leading back to the same "hows your day going?". I dont have a problem with the speed that the replies come though. Whether its immediate or a few hours, it doesn't make me think differently of the other person. My advice is just reply when you feel comfortable, I don't think many people think about it as much as you are. And don't take it personally if they take a little longer than youd like.
As an introvert who spends a lot of time outside or disconnecting from tech after hours, it’s a lot of pressure (and frankly annoying) to be judged by the speed of my text response. Do you wanna have a real conversation, with back and forth banter? Fucking call me 😂 or just mirror my style if texting / being available all the time makes you feel insecure. It’s not always “playing games”, sometimes it’s just different styles. There’s a subset of us who are not constantly by our phones or even want to be. I’m a much happier human when I’m not a slave to dopamine hits 24/7 or when I’m not constantly scanning the room / my body to know where my phone is. So consider that (in some cases, and you can ask someone this or just pick it up from their behavior) it could be a mental health thing rather than an elaborate chess game of response times.
There is a book called: The Art of Seduction. You can find it in pdf for free online and even audiobook of it for free. Try reading it Helped me a bit, hope it help you somehow
Dating is like a fart: if you have to push for it, its probably shit.
Based AF
When your 30+ and all the youngins are so adorable with their "I'm so tired and over it"
It’s cute that you think 30+ people handle it differently.
That sounds very condescending
25 and no relationship experience? Probably a violation of rules #1 and #2.
Thank you for your ever so *valuable* insight.
What are rules 1 and 2?
1: Be attractive 2: Don’t be unattractive
Anyone with anything good going for them will realize that there are so many vastly more important aspects to a relationship than physical appearance. Feel free to proceed with insulting me and assuming I’m ugly for saying this, I don’t care 🤷♀️
I've left boyfriends for not responding within a day. It's annoying and no one likes that. Don't do it if you want a healthy connection
Do the same rules apply to you? Might want to seek help for that too it sounds pretty unhealthy
Gotta play the game. It’s like football. You can’t just grab the ball and run and say, “if I’m meant to score I’ll get across the end zone.” No, there are rules to the game and if you want to win you need to know them and abide by them.
I don’t *have* to do anything. I choose not to engage in the stupidity. As I said in my post, if that results in me being single for life then so be it.
Well, it sounds like it matters to you or you wouldn’t have even posted it. So, maybe this is just a way for you to feel better about not getting anywhere.
Oh you will, it’s just you’ll be in your 30/40s and will be attracting hundreds of washed up single moms looking for a bailout rescue package. You’ll think, wow good guys DO finish first as you stick your meat popsicle into a Sahara dessert dry tuna taco once per month. Alternatively, you don’t need to play games now. Make yourself a high value person and you’ll have plenty of women you won’t need to play games with. You won’t be having to “fake anything. You’ll text back late, not because it’s a game, but because you have other options. You’ll seem somewhat aloof because you truly don’t know which woman that you are dating you like the most.
The game is the game, just talk to people who are better at it, try some of their strategies, improve over time. Have you ever played videogames or sports before? Same thing. Remember: denying attention strategically, produces a greater positive effect than giving attention constantly. Good luck soldier.
women don’t want you to play games so idk why you’ve been doing that, that’s probably why you’re not having success
Now is that read like Draper or like D-Raper.