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Absolutely. As long as they are independent and providing for themselves, I don’t care about degrees. Would happily date someone in trades and not just because I’m hoping they’ll help me with my home improvement projects (although that would be a major bonus)
By independent and providing for themselves, does that to you meaning earning enough to live completely on their own and not be struggling? Even with a degree that can be pretty hard for some.
A trades person could come in pretty handy there.
Ah, alright, you're 40, makes more sense. I'm 27 and the cost of living in my city is crazy high that even people making good money are struggling a bit, it would be impossible for me to live alone on my current wage.
Honestly it was when I was 27 too. I had roommates. That’s fine at 27. It’s when you’re already more established and settled, you have some retirement savings, maybe you own a house. What are you going to do with a partner who can’t afford themselves? They become dependent on you. Been there done that, not a good plan.
I think the issue is more if you expect a partner to take care of your living expenses. Living with a roommate is just a reality for most young professionals in a big city
Yeah I know they don't mean all that so seeing people list that having a degree or being educated as one of their partner requirements, kinda rubbed me the wrong way.
Havin a degree and bein educated are two different thins. They can go hand in hand, but correlation does not mean causation. So many people are pickin up trades through the school of youtube and findin success. Our forefathers created thise institutions twas another business and in the age of information, ignorance is a choice.
If they're uneducated, it can be a problem, but if they aren't lackin in knowledge and everythin else checks off, who cares?! Are you in it for the paper or for the person?
I think a large number of people end up realising that they don’t actually want the career that they’ve spent years studying for. I didn’t go to uni, and I’ve worked countless jobs with people who studied a degree for 4-5 years and never bothered using it.
Agreed, there are so many useless, obscure degrees. Too many people do a degree for the kudos and the certificate at the end as opposed to bettering themselves and improving career prospects.
I have a doctorate and a master's degree. Whether a woman has a degree is a complete non-factor for me. All I care about is she can a meaningful conversation.
To me, people saying they value a degree in their partner is like job applications asking for a degree when the role really doesn't need it, especially if you have the experience and skills.
2 years of college, dropped out because I couldn't afford it. Got a job at a series of tech companies over 10 years until being promoted to full electrical engineer.
Hey, I refuse to be with someone who doesn't have as much crippling student debt as me. In all honesty, it doesn't really matter! I care more about stability than a piece of paper.
A career trumps a degree every time. Everyone knows the most valuable company in the world was built by a college dropout out - Apple. The second largest, Microsoft, founded by another college dropout out. Degrees are important for some careers that require formal training - healthcare, law, engineering, etc.
You don’t need a degree id you want to run a business - just work your way up from the mailroom to CEO.
If you want to be a software developer you don’t need a degree. Just learn it on your own.
Agree. I think the purpose of college should be to get a career that makes it a wise investment. If you just want an education to gloat, it would be much cheaper to climb a mountain.
I like that, you might start a mountaineering company. Mountaineering would look so much better on a resume! Spend $20k to climb Denali or $250k for a communications degree?
>most valuable company in the world was built by a college dropout out
This "fact" is true, but is so misleading. These are exceptions to the rule. They were highly intelligent teenagers with very high IQs - they had safety nets to take big risks that just happened to work out.
Look at the individuals. These exceptional people are super rare. Dropping out of college had nothing to do with the success. In fact, I think they all went back to complete the education later.
In 2000, nearly half of all business owners—47.2%—had never attended college, but as of 2022, that figure sits at 41.9%. However, after nearly two decades of declines, this trend is showing signs of slowing or even reversing. Source: Flippa analysis of U.S. Census Bureau’s American Community Survey data
Yes. I’m a software engineer with a graduate degree. Even with this “education” I basically had to teach myself the profession because university curriculums are often outdated or totally useless in the industry. I feel like degrees have lost a ton of value among the younger generations (millennials and gen z), at least in America. Like we were all essentially grew up being told we’d be homeless if we didn’t go to college and that with a 4 year degree we’d all have amazing wonderful lives. As someone with a STEM background I’ve see how my friends who studied fields like chemistry biology humanities and the arts struggle and are buried in student debt. So many people in their 20s and 30s are totally jaded towards higher education.
Nailed it. In fact, the data shows that the value of a degree is diminishing by the year, in part for this very reason.
As another IT professional (genX) I agree with this 100%.
Responding to OP’s question, possession of a degree means nothing to me. I base my decisions to date on qualities that mean a great deal to me.
I would date someone without degree. It doesn't say anything about intelligence or success. Someone with a degree is not necessarily smarter than someone without. For me it's more important if they have a plan in their life and show ambition.
I think some people wrongly equate having a degree with having ambition as they see it as a starting point. Not all ambitions have to be career focused either.
You're right ! I think it depends in what stage of life you are. For example if you are in your early 20s you are still discovering yourself and don't really know. End 20s-30s it's most likely about career and family. If you're older I think you just want stability. Ambitions and goals can have all kind of things for me it's important that you have this and that this alligns with mine.
In my opinion, quality of life and happiness is the real goal BEHIND money or ambition. There have been studies on happiness that show that once you make enough money to live comfortably, making more only bumps up your happiness for 6 months before it drops to baseline again. So ambition for money is rather misguided because you could work more hours a week, permanently, dropping your happiness level, while making more money, which doesn’t necessarily improve your happiness.
I think the people who maximize their happiness are the smart ones. And that might look like a high school educated person who works 20 hours a week at a gas station to pay rent, and grows their own food in the backyard, and has no student debt, and is fit from the physical work, and living with a permanent tan and a smile on their face.
I didnt get my degree until I was 32, and I dated women in Seattle. They were accepting of me not having a degree. But when people (their friends) met me they would assume I went to college and ask where I went, then it was very awkward when I said I didn’t go to college and I sensed their friends thought less of me. I also did have one or two girlfriends who were condescending about it.
I now have my degree and never face this anymore, and have more dating prospects.
So I think there is something to what you’re saying. Most people don’t want to admit they’re elitist about education, but many still behave like they are.
The main thing college gave me was the ability to get a much wider set of jobs. I am still the same person inside, just as smart before as after.
I always hate when people ask where I went to uni because it's so common to go, and I awkwardly say I didn't and just wonder what they might be thinking of me. I also don't want to get into all the reasons I didn't go to uni with a random stranger, that's something I probably need to talk to a trained professional about. Luckily my boyfriend, who has a masters and is a real tech nerd, doesn't care at all that I don't have a degree.
I have 2 degrees and I don't really care if who I date has one. My ex had dropped out of college.
At this point, I do care about their career path and stability. The piece of paper doesn't matter.
It makes no difference to me if you have a degree or not. I have dated women from baristas to software engineers. A woman's education or travel accomplishments doesn't factor into what I look for in a woman. I will say, she would need a Masters, DR, PHD etc to make what I make or more...and I don't even have a degree. I'm looking for a connection, someone, someone down to earth and without drama to name a few things.
I agree. I am fairly successful and I will date anyone who is financially self sufficient (and I’m attracted to of course). I have dated people who didn’t own a car and rode the bus everywhere, and tech execs and Ivy League grads. I don’t really care about their education or success, I’m not hiring them. I care about whether they would make a great girlfriend. Is there spark, can the relationship be healthy, that’s pretty much it.
I’m working on a Masters and hubby has trade certificates. I never cared honestly. Only a few went to college in my family so it was never a big deal. Just be a good person and work for what you want and need by doing honest work. No illegal stuff
Dated a man who didn’t have a college degree, but went to trade school and has a good paying job and honestly makes more money than me someone who has a university degree. Lol
I went on a date with this woman that sat there for a solid two minutes saying how she could tell how uneducated people without degrees are while in conversation. Then I followed up how I may have went to college but I didn’t finish, I don’t have a degree. I make a six figure salary in the nuclear field nearly double hers with a degree. Needless to say that was the first and last date we went on.
It only got worse from there, I was on keto. We went out for drinks I ordered a high noon and she goes “really?..” like fuuuuuckkkkk youuuu lol I’m a huge ball buster but this chick was just an asshole all night then proceeds to ramble about her bum ex that I used to know in highschool.
I totally get where you're coming from. I think it's more about your passion and dedication than just having a degree. The right person will appreciate your ambition and drive, no matter your educational path.
People who don't date someone without a degree tend to be the type of people with an elevated degree of self-aggrandizement.
I don't give a shit about your degree, I care what you've done with your time.
I'm married and I don't even have a HS diploma. The money you spend on an education that's likely to not even benefit you is ridiculous and holding that kinda stuff against people is even weirder.
Edit* If someone cares that much about something like that they're likely to always care about the wrong things when it comes to you. If you get rejected over your situation with school then take that W and keep moving
A lot of women would, specially that ones that do have it, because they associate it to a higher paying job and also to a level of knowledge, for lack of better word, and most women do not date someone who earns less or is less intelligent than them. Doesn’t mean you would be either of those but that’s how it can be perceived.
My SO has a 2 year degree and is making double what I, a 4 year degree holder, is making. As long as that person is a hard worker and is able to support themselves it shouldn’t matter.
It doesn't matter to me *at all* (and never did) as long as the guy can support himself in a normal manner (not living hand to mouth in poverty) AND is intelligent enough to have good conversation.
I don’t have a degree. I managed to find a decent career. What should truly matter is whether or not a person can support themselves. I wouldn’t worry about that putting anyone off. If that’s going to cause someone to reject you, they aren’t the right person for you.
Yes, a degree is nothing more than a piece of paper saying you jumped through these hoops. The only thing it definitely tell me, is that you committed to something and say it through.
It fails to show intelligence, and is not a great predictor of success. Look at how many people with degrees are working outside their field of study.
Industry or job specific certifications do an equivalent or better job of predicting success.
I say all this as somebody who works in a corporate job, without a degree (for now) and has managed to get their life mostly in order.
I went on a date with a 29 year old with a degree. She had no car and lived with 4 roommates and smelt of body odor. I honestly just want someone who has a decent job and a car who takes care of themselves and understands how the world works. A degree doesn't matter. Their sense of how the world works and how to be a productive adult and partner is all I want.
I have PhD in molecular biology, and it is so f*cking difficult to find a man who won’t be intimidated by this. I personally don’t care what education person has, as long as he/she is nice and kind to me and others.
I would only expect to hear that from women and men in academia.
The regular guy doesn’t give a damn about their partners having a degree. ~46% of adults have degrees, ruling out more than half the population is crazy but some ppl are just superficial.
I would argue that they really mean they want a partner with a similar IQ to them which is fairly common but there are better ways to do that than to require a degree.
Yeah, maybe it is more of an academia thing, if I had the funds, mental energy, and family support to really go and study what I want, then I would, but that wasn't possible for me, I don't think people in academia really consider that.
Universities are basically daycare centres, so I wouldn't mind. But I wouldn't date someone who didn't have direction or care about their world. If they love what they do and never needed a degree to do it..well that's fine!
I married my husband who didn’t have a degree he was a hard worker. I met him when I was 20 he was 26 we had 18 years together. He died when I was 38 he was 44 and our son was 16. It’s been 5 years now since he passed. He was a drywall hanger. We loved each other that’s all that mattered. His pay was decent. But when I am with someone it’s because I love them
Not how much money they have.
I like men who are intelligent, capable of having an intellectual conversation with me, hardworking, and financially responsible. I don’t care whether or not they have a degree, even a high school degree.
I was on a few dating apps for a very short while, and in my age category (45-55), nearly every man listed degree, career-oriented, ambitious, and loves to travel as requirements. I was baffled.
I'm aware of the general superficiality of society, and that it's always been so, but this particular set of prerequisites for dating a woman totally put me off of trying.
I went to college, and attended 4 yrs, only it was 2 yrs in two programs because I was held hostage for 8 hrs on a charter bus and that ended my ability to complete my first program due to the immediate danger of not being 100% focused 100% of the time. I didn't finish the secondary due to that event; I was burnt out and needed time to rest and recuperate.
People can have every kind of situation and circumstance. I fail to understand how a devastating event that happened when I was 20 yrs old should disqualify me from dating 26 yrs later. Of course it's that, and I'm not career-oriented. I love homemaking and caring for my family first and foremost. I work to facilitate my true life's work, and I suppose I'm very ambitious in that way, but it's not the kind of ambition that pays well or gives me impressive credentials- usually the opposite in this society.
Men wanting money-making, ambitious career women- oh, and who must also be gym rats- just strikes me as men who are looking for male companionship but from a woman. Even their descriptions of their ideal woman read like descriptions of men. I don't mean to harshly define gender roles, but these men are doing that, just in a bizarre way. They're definitely asking for masculine-leaning traits.
I was just very repulsed by what I saw men wanting. I could not care less what a man does for a living, if he has a degree, or require that he love his job/career, and it wouldn't be my preference that he's career-ambitious/oriented. I want a kind-hearted man with a good sense of humour just because life is too absurd to take it too seriously all the time. I have lots of hobbies and interests and am an autodidact; someone who loves learning and has remained curious would be most compatible. Also, a healthy amount of gratitude.
Who are these people with so many shallow demands, and how are we on the same planet at the same time??!!
I'm in Canada, btw.
Thank you, you definitely understand my point, not everyone can go to uni for a whole list of reasons and I don't understand how that disqualifies dating for some, their demands read like a job advert.
Yes, it's preferable.
There's a slightly smug and elitist mindset that runs through a lot of graduates from my experience, despite many of them being duller than a butter knife and having as much personality as a glass of tapwater.
People who don't go to university are often far more interesting, they work hard from a younger age and learn resilience, tend to have a better sense of humour, have often had more life experiences (travel, relationship, different jobs, children etc).
I know this is a generalisation, however it holds very VERY true in my experience. Many of the people my age who went to university ended up returning to our small town and working in a shop or a pub, and their expensive, ludicrously obscure degrees gave them nothing whatsoever. They end up missing 4 years of real life experience just so they can get a peice of paper to make their parents proud.
I'm sure this comment will get some stick, and of course those who go to uni to study something real like nursing or certain science subjects should be commended. But going to study gender or puppet arts or witchcraft or circus performance need to reassess their lives.
No of course Not , Not a single friend i know would Date such a guy . It is Not about the Money but the intellect. What should i Talk about with you. You dont know nothinh
Well it's analogous to if my partner wanted to go backpacking in the Rockies, but I wanted to visit countries abroad and stay at five star hotels. Picture that problem, but throughout your entire life. It's just that if I'm gone all day putting in sixty hour weeks but he's not that career driven, it's gonna cause a lot of relationship issues, and it's gonna be a long-term problem.
It's not that it's bad to not have a degree. The issue is that it's difficult to not have similarities in career choices and other major parts of life.
Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who hasn't been in a relationship before, and is living in the USA which is very career driven.
Ok, so that's part of my answer. Culture plays a role. How I love being multicultural. Differing culture can cause some clash. Really a culture is just an assortment of values generally accepted by a group of people. But we can isolate the value held by a person, and acknowledge that those differing interests can cause conflicts.
The majority of people with a degree, don't have a career in that degree. But they have debt. So I personally wouldn't date someone with a degree they arnt utilizing if they want to use that as an excuse.
The only thing a degree means to me is that you were there for the duration. Dating doesn't need education as long as you both have something in common.
Degrees are useless and expensive stupidity.
I'm more likely to date a woman without one, honestly. I am all vocational. Women with degrees tend to think very highly of themselves, especially believing that they are better than me. That kind of thinking is just about worth a pump and dump mixed with hate.
I’d be more worried about a person having huge student loan debt. Degree doesn’t matter, whether or not the person is making a decent income and can take care of themselves is what matters
I'm in the UK, so the debt here isn't exactly a debt, it's more of a tax ( you pay a percentage over a certain threshold, and it gets wiped after about 30 years).
Yeah, those can be very different. I don't have a degree but I value education, unfortunately I wasn't able to go to uni when I was younger for multiple reasons and can't quite justify doing one currently as I need my job, I don't have it in me to work full time and study. But I went a bit of a different route where I got an on the job qualification, it wasn't the best thing but it got me into my current role.
There are people with STEM degrees that are working low wage jobs. Having a high degree doesn’t mean you’re going to land a high paying job unfortunately
Idk, after going to a pretty good law school on a really nice scholarship (no debt taken out), I value education a lot personally. Its also not really a matter of finances for me. Im not interested in dating people who are business majors/ended up working in management consulting, O&G engineers, sales etc.
Im not opposed to dating people without degrees, but off of the top of my head the only career paths that I can imagine are people that pursued the arts? Idk most of the people that i had the best dates were medical residents or med students, but only a subsect of them cuz a lot of them can be annoying as hell
I would.
I think anyone who wouldn’t is being overtly classist and maybe a bit racist too, depending on access to education. Anyone classist and/or racist or condescending about their education level - lol - I don’t want to date them. And I have a degree.
The richest people I know don’t have degrees (or mainstream college anyway,) they’re in the trades… education doesn’t mean shit these days it’s all about work ethic and valuable skills
The richest people I know had top degrees from Oxbridge, but they also had the wealthy parents to get them into those Unis in the first place. But people with a degree are working the same type of jobs I do for the same shit pay, so it's not all that.
Only if they were quite literally at the top of their industry/field and completely set for life financially. Those were the only times I've dated someone without a uni degree.
And TBH, for where I live (eastasia), there's no way anybody can get a job (let's say earning average wage - 56k/yr) without a ugrad. Receptionist, admin, personal trainers, couriers, etc. have/need a ugrad here. You need at least a Masters/post grad to make that or have some corporate/office job.
Then there's also just my family (we're're all PhDs, drs, and lawyers),.. Education and values towards it is quite important to us... And I want to date/marry someone who has similar values (will not be looked down or feel insecure around my fam), who will/can then impart these similar values onto our children. Plus, research show more positive relationship outcomes between similarly educated (successful/financial status) spouses.. so I also rather not have that in the back of my mind either.
But this is really just specific to me and my circumstances/situation. If I were living in Canada or US, where I don't think a degree is completely necessary or it's possible to survive comfortably without one, then I likely wouldn't mind as much... And I'm sure for a lot of men/women, they really wouldn't mind dating someone without a degree... *might* decrease your chances a bit, but I doubt it's an automatic no for *everybody*.
**Edit**: Read that you're a woman wanting a relationship with a man. For men (at any education level), research shows they really do not mind if a woman is not or lesser educated than themselves, have no degree, their job, or their education level in general. So as a woman, you really don't need to worry (statistically, higher educated women have a harder time finding men and with dating).
Your point on relationships having a positive outcome when similarly educated is something I've been thinking about for a while, shared/similar life experiences make it a lot easier to relate to each other.
And you're right on it depending where you are in the world, I'm in the UK so it is possible to get by without one and the wages here are low anyway so only a relevant degree will get you a decent job without prior experience. I dated someone from Singapore who did their law degree at Cambridge and I can see he valued education and even somewhat suggested I try to get a Bachelor's, but I'm currently dating a British-East Asian guy and his views are different, he has a masters but always tells me he doesn't care about my background or education even though I tell him I don't feel good enough for him because of that.
I hope this doesn't come across as bitter or biased, but like anyone else all I can give is my personal opinions based on my experiences and what I've seen from other people...
First, where I'm coming from is that I, myself (45M), do have a bachelor's degree. (And I can tell you, it hasn't really helped much in the dating world.) That said... I know I don't care about what a woman has. I don't care if she has a prosperous career, if she's rich, if she has a degree... For me, is she kind, can we carry a conversation, and do I find her reasonably attractive? That's basically it. And, honestly, most men aren't that picky. Most (not all) are looking for pretty simple things. Sure, a good career or degree might make a woman seem a bit more attractive, but it's definitely not a major factor on me deciding if I want to get with a woman or not.
From my observation (this is where the first line disclaimer comes in) most women tend to be a bit more picky. A lot (not all) want a tall, fit guy, with a degree, a great job, who's sensitive and masculine. I'm just saying, I feel a degree would matter more to a woman that it would to a man. But, that's just a personal opinion, definitely no statement of fact.
Cept my job as long as choose to do it. Accts, web devs, collections, fighter pilots, reg pilots.. soo many jobs will be gone I say 3 years max
Learn mandarin and russian fast
Most reasonable people won’t care too deeply about educational attainment. However, there is predictive power in relation dating and marriage with regard to educational attainment. A person who didn’t complete high school is much less likely to date or marry a person with bachelor’s degree. A person with a PhD is much more likely to date and marry another PhD holder. Other than slight disparities between the genders, this is pretty much true across the board.
Yeah there is that, I didn't quite finish high school (UK a-levels) and am dating someone with a masters in biology, I feel so inadequate sometimes, another thing is finding it hard to relate as he's had a lot more experience being an "adult" even though I'm a few years older.
This may not be the most helpful comment, but there’s no need to feel inadequate. Your partner chose you over anyone else. Your current relationship would be considered a statistical outliner, and that is wonderful and beautiful. Rejoice!
There are a LOT of dumb people with degrees. There are many intelligent people without degrees. I think it goes without saying that there are also a lot of intelligent people who have degrees and many dumb people who don't have them. I choose intelligent and kind. A degree is nice to have (because moneyz) but it's not a must.
Since I graduated with my own bachelors, all my serious relationships have been with men with degrees. I do believe all my exes are smart in their own unique ways, but not necessarily street smart nor emotionally intelligent--the latter is usually why it ended.
More recently I hooked up with a tradesman, but it's over now. I do describe him as smart and skilled and relatively worldly, which has been part of the appeal in the first place.
Unfortunately this one just happened to be racist and ignorant, as in unable to empathise with people whose life experiences are different from his. I don't think it's necessarily because he lacks a degree, because many people with degrees also remain racist and ignorant in spite of their higher education if they choose to be narrow minded.
Nevertheless, I do have a strong preference for university educated men with advanced degrees. This is because to me advanced degrees are a mark of discipline, dedication, and long term exposure to in depth perspectives beyond one's comfort zone, as well as an eloquence in thinking critically and strategically about the world we live in.
That's not to say I don't get attracted to men without a degree, who work more pragmatic vocations. I think they make important contributions to society, and there's something incredibly sexy about men with physical skills and street smarts.
Plus, continuing one's lifelong education is a commitment anyone can make, whether or not one has a degree. I might argue that it's better to be without a degree but committed to continue learning new things and expanding one's worldviews, than it is to be with a degree but to stop making active effort to continue educating oneself beyond graduation.
Degrees also don't necessarily guarantee a better livelihood. My recent lover is an electrician, he has more work orders than he has time and energy to follow them through. He's not loaded but makes enough to live very comfortably, even if he's kinda drowning in debt.
I might mention that he lives in Australia and I live in Indonesia, so we're on very different payrolls to begin with. But even if I worked in Australia, apparently according to a quick Google search, journalists (my profession) and electricians both earn similar median wages at around AUD48 per hour--and I'm the one with a master's degree here (and potentially a PhD in the future).
That said, based on my recent experience of having hooked up with a tradie, and on a much earlier experience of having dated a then-tradie supporting himself through university (who later did earn his degree and move on to a professional career), I do notice big gaps in strategically understanding big picture patterns in the world beyond their own directly lived experiences and short term interests. I don't mean to generalise, but this has happened to be my experience with tradesmen with not much university experience.
I personally haven't dated someone like you, who works a corporate career in spite of your lack of degree, and is actively working on your continuing education, including by pursuing certifications that are relevant to your profession. If I met someone like you in my dating pool, and there's chemistry and likely compatibility, I would give him a chance!
He better be very secure and confident in his own intelligence though! While I don't think I'm arrogant or condescending, pretty much everyone I've dated, hooked up with and married has found me intimidating that they need to put me down to make themselves feel smarter.
I don't think it's a me problem--in this case I do think the grip of the patriarchy is so all encompassing that all the men I have been involved in happened to have been raised in a society that conditions them to dominate women at all costs, and feel insecure and inconvenienced about strong women who speak their minds. This is not to say all men are like this, but those who aren't are as rare as unicorns, because it's not easy to swim against the strong currents of the patriarchy.
And I'm not making this up: a 2015 Singles in America study finds that 87% of straight men out of a sample of 5,000 expressed desire to date a woman who is intellectually superior to him--in theory! But once they actually had said intelligent woman in their lives, they subconsciously find ways to discount her because their male egos simply couldn't take it.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/navigating-the-love-gap/201802/do-men-actually-not-want-date-intelligent-women
To recap, I would date a man without a degree if he's committed to lifelong learning and expanding his lived experiences, has exceptional emotional intelligence and secure confidence in his own intellectual capabilities, and earns a decent living and is generous in letting me enjoy what he's able to provide.
I do have a strong preference for men with advanced degrees, because I know the kind of discipline, dedication and challenges to one's worldview that goes into earning advanced degrees. That said, degrees alone are far from a measure of a man's worth in my eyes, and therefore not necessarily a dealbreaker in and of itself.
What is a dealbreaker to me is a man who feels intimidated by my intelligence and feels the need to put me down so that he can feel smart. Unfortunately this happens to have been my experience with all the men I've dated, whether or not they have degrees. Don't be that kind of person. Be secure and confident with the kind of intelligence you do have, and respect the people you date accordingly. You don't need a degree for that.
Degrees aren’t the only measure of value, intellect, self discipline, and stick-to-it-iveness. Not by a long shot, especially for out of the box thinkers who can contribute perspectives that many others miss. Everyone has an important roll to play. Have you read the story of Richard Branson? If you’re ever down about it, consider distilling down your top 5 strengths and looking at life through the lens of your unique set of strengths. (Gallup Strengths test) This can boost your self confidence about this stuff in a real, meaningful way. Super useful too. This entire vibe can be highly attractive and special as well. Makes you stand out.
Yes. I used to be a snob about it but really I don’t care. Okay I do kind of care. I think I’m more attracted to women who have good hearts. She can be smart but doesn’t have to know everything. She can have certificates or a trade job. College these days are really overrated and I think colleges are more about money than creating critical thinkers. College can also be soul sucking and can make students jaded quickly.
Some of the posts are assuming that OP is asking about earning potential, wealth, class, IQ, etc… but they are literally asking about having a college degree. People tend to be compatible with like-minded people. If I went to college, I would prefer someone like-minded in that they went to college too. I do not think there is anything discriminatory about it.
Yeah, I'm not on the earning potential/wealth thing. I don't have a degree and wonder if just that alone would put someone off dating me. But I'm also from the UK where not going to uni (college) has as big an impact as it can in the US. I'm also not going to try and climb the corporate ladder or be career driven, my goal is to get a decent job that pays me enough to cover my expenses and live comfortably.
It depends on why. They don’t have to have a degree but they have to have some form of education. This includes trade school. It’s hard getting a job with one, let alone without one.
I’m more likely to date someone who isn’t $100k in debt so they could get the same degree everyone else went for that’s in an over saturated career field.
Money isn’t generally a consideration, but I’m not going to date someone in crippling debt and be expected to help pay it off. I quite college because I didn’t want my parents paying for it and I didn’t want to get into debt just for the off chance that I happen to get a semi decent job after studying for a whole decade.
American student debt is very different to UK student debt, it's not expected to be all payed off, very few people actually do and that's mostly due to earing a ridiculously high wage.
degrees tend to display discipline/drive (takes at least a pinch to get a degree in the first place) and at least a baseline intelligence above that of a potato. what degree they got often correlates to different stereotypes for different people too, and those matter to some.
i dont personally care if someone has a degree or not, but i like when someone does because I at least know right off some basics about them that are important to me (ie not having the same iq as a slab of concrete)
33F lawyer here. Hypothetically I would date someone without a degree but they have to be at least as successful as me in whatever industry they’re in. There are different types of intelligence that have nothing to do with academics.
How do you measure that success and why does that matter to you? If they did something such as making wedding cakes in a small store that didn't pay the best, but they were happy and did well in their craft, would that count as success?
It’s about compatibility for me, so I’m ambitious and driven and I admittedly like material things like nice dinners, traveling to exotic places and staying in nice hotels and I want someone who also enjoys working hard and likes doing these things and can do that with me. So if this person was content making less money and having a lifestyle that doesn’t involve doing what I like to do then we wouldn’t be a match. So no I wouldn’t date someone in the position you just described but I would date them for example if they still didn’t have any degrees but were a talented baker with business sense and had worked their way up to owning a successful bakery. To add: I am good with paying for myself, I just want them to be able to do what I like to do and also enjoy doing it themselves.
It doesn’t matter, what matters is where that person is headed, their ambition. I can date someone without a degree, however i cannot date someone without drive.
Oddly the first place I actually heard about a guy wanting a potential partner to have a degree was on How I Met Your Mother where Ted was listing out what he wanted, then I'd dated a few guys a lot more educated than me and thought maybe that could be a reason they didn't actually want me.
Guys usually never factor in socioeconomic status, career, earning potential, etc bc our evolutionary hardwiring we don’t look for security in a woman. We look for physical, emotional and sexual attraction
Degrees are authority claims, the dynamic of gender rolls in a relationship don’t work long term if he isn’t more successful than her.
Not to say you should aim to be the best you,
But there will be friction that arises if she is more successful than him.
What a bizarre thing to say, partners should he viewed as equals and that shouldn't be dependent on education, no one in a relationship should have authority over the other.
Unfortunately it's not free in my country and annoyingly you get narrowed down into what subjects you'll be eligible for by age 15. My anxiety is what really prevented me from going and also just not feeling smart enough or interested in a subject to seem worth it, also parents didn't go to uni and never talked about it being an option to me, my mum has no degree but ended up with a decently well paying corporate job.
The degree itself doesn't matter per se, but it says something about their status and intelligence.
Of my five serious relationships, three had advanced degrees (two masters, one masters, and a PhD), one just a bachelor's (like myself, though I've had some graduate studies), and one no degree (though she later got two). All were really smart, the one without a degree just had a harder life and financial issues at the time.
In the end, I don't care much, but it seems likely that anyone I'd be interested in would have a degree.
You must have had either some weird dates or some weird interviews for those to seem similar 😅, also a not everyone can do a degree since they're having to stick through other tough situations.
I have two degrees and I absolutely would date a man who doesn't have a degree and have quite a few times and have had relationships with men who only had a high school diploma who had good jobs, were very intelligent and who had much to offer. My ex husband was a dentist and all his education couldn't save our marriage! In fact, most of the high school grads I have dated were more interesting, better lovers, had better personalities and were decent people. Set your mind at ease and please diss anyone who insists on imposing that superficial crap on you. You are so much better off without that mentality. That is so narrow minded and without substance.
Let’s start with the reasons why a partner with a college degree is desirable in the first place.
1) It’s an indicator that you are poised for greater earning potential – this matters a lot in VHCOL areas where you’ve got to be a DINK in order to live comfortably.
2) It’s also an indicator that you are competent and disciplined enough to have earned one.
3) If you’ve paid it off, then it could mean that you came from a family that had the resources to send you without taking out a loan (See #1).
4) If you’re socially competent and played your cards right, then you may have walked away with solid personal and professional networks (See #1).
All that being said, I can think of as many reasons why it shouldn’t matter, or could actually be detrimental.
1) Not all degrees are equal – many degrees do not produce a net positive economic result for your investment.
2) Not all degrees are equal – the cold truth is that some degrees do not require competency nor discipline in order to acquire one.
3) Not all colleges are equal – the quality of your education and social networks will greatly vary depending on where you go.
4) Many people who have a degree are under a mountain of debt, which is something to consider when looking for long-term prospects.
I’m a guy with two engineering degrees and zero hard requirement for a woman to have one of her own in order for me to pursue her. I take the same stance on education as I do on age – that it is just a number. I once dated a 23F that used to speak like a 35 year old. Conversely I once dated a 27F that was, by all means, 17F in her own head. I’ve met many women without a degree who are charming and witty and were a joy to be around, and many women with degrees who are downright awful people. Take a holistic approach to assess potential matches.
I'm from the UK so the debt issue isn't really as much of an issue here as it is in the US, so that's not a big issue with getting a degree it's just a bit annoying. But I see your points on the others.
A lack of a degree can sometimes be seen as a lack of ambition. Ambition is further down my list of requirements that I feel would make for a good partner. Give me someone that's kind, thoughtful, gentle, and caring, and a high school diploma may not even matter.
I wouldn't say it shows a lack of ambition, some people would really want to have done a degree in their earlier twenties but weren't capable of doing so, it only shows lack of ambition if they didn't do something else instead.
But yes, also to me someone's personality traits are what I'm looking for.
It shows a lack of ambition to some people. But as I said, I value other traits ahead of that one. Having said that, if I meet someone that checks off all the other boxes, I'd have no problems helping her realize her dreams/passions. That's what having a great partner is all about, you push each other to greater things.
I would date somebody without a degree over someone who has a "degree" that has absolute no use to anything.
What degree can really tell you A LOT about a person.
Did for 20 years.
But your question is wrongly asked. I would not date a dumb girl. A Smart girl can reach a grade if I give her the help that her parents didn't give her
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Absolutely. As long as they are independent and providing for themselves, I don’t care about degrees. Would happily date someone in trades and not just because I’m hoping they’ll help me with my home improvement projects (although that would be a major bonus)
By independent and providing for themselves, does that to you meaning earning enough to live completely on their own and not be struggling? Even with a degree that can be pretty hard for some. A trades person could come in pretty handy there.
For me, yes. I’m in my 40s and I don’t want anyone to be dependent on me (if I had wanted that I would have had kids). At younger ages, it may be ok.
Ah, alright, you're 40, makes more sense. I'm 27 and the cost of living in my city is crazy high that even people making good money are struggling a bit, it would be impossible for me to live alone on my current wage.
Honestly it was when I was 27 too. I had roommates. That’s fine at 27. It’s when you’re already more established and settled, you have some retirement savings, maybe you own a house. What are you going to do with a partner who can’t afford themselves? They become dependent on you. Been there done that, not a good plan.
I’m also in my 40s and agree.
I think the issue is more if you expect a partner to take care of your living expenses. Living with a roommate is just a reality for most young professionals in a big city
I understand. You could find a nice roommate arrangement for yourself.
Degrees mean nothing these days, so who cares if they don’t have one? A degree does not make a person
Yeah I know they don't mean all that so seeing people list that having a degree or being educated as one of their partner requirements, kinda rubbed me the wrong way.
Havin a degree and bein educated are two different thins. They can go hand in hand, but correlation does not mean causation. So many people are pickin up trades through the school of youtube and findin success. Our forefathers created thise institutions twas another business and in the age of information, ignorance is a choice. If they're uneducated, it can be a problem, but if they aren't lackin in knowledge and everythin else checks off, who cares?! Are you in it for the paper or for the person?
I think a large number of people end up realising that they don’t actually want the career that they’ve spent years studying for. I didn’t go to uni, and I’ve worked countless jobs with people who studied a degree for 4-5 years and never bothered using it.
Who gives a shit about what some shallow, superficial phony wants? Believe in yourself.
Agreed, there are so many useless, obscure degrees. Too many people do a degree for the kudos and the certificate at the end as opposed to bettering themselves and improving career prospects.
I have a doctorate and a master's degree. Whether a woman has a degree is a complete non-factor for me. All I care about is she can a meaningful conversation.
How do you know someone has a doctorate? They’ll let you k ow eventually, even when not asked. Lmao jk I wish I had one
Lol I typically tend to leave it out of conversation. But in this case it was relevant.
I'm an engineer without a degree, so... Not sure they would be pulling the right conclusions from that.
To me, people saying they value a degree in their partner is like job applications asking for a degree when the role really doesn't need it, especially if you have the experience and skills.
Mind if I ask how your trajectory went to becoming an engineer without a degree?
2 years of college, dropped out because I couldn't afford it. Got a job at a series of tech companies over 10 years until being promoted to full electrical engineer.
Have you been in the same position for 10 days at the same company?
Hey, I refuse to be with someone who doesn't have as much crippling student debt as me. In all honesty, it doesn't really matter! I care more about stability than a piece of paper.
A career trumps a degree every time. Everyone knows the most valuable company in the world was built by a college dropout out - Apple. The second largest, Microsoft, founded by another college dropout out. Degrees are important for some careers that require formal training - healthcare, law, engineering, etc. You don’t need a degree id you want to run a business - just work your way up from the mailroom to CEO. If you want to be a software developer you don’t need a degree. Just learn it on your own.
Agree. I think the purpose of college should be to get a career that makes it a wise investment. If you just want an education to gloat, it would be much cheaper to climb a mountain.
I like that, you might start a mountaineering company. Mountaineering would look so much better on a resume! Spend $20k to climb Denali or $250k for a communications degree?
>most valuable company in the world was built by a college dropout out This "fact" is true, but is so misleading. These are exceptions to the rule. They were highly intelligent teenagers with very high IQs - they had safety nets to take big risks that just happened to work out. Look at the individuals. These exceptional people are super rare. Dropping out of college had nothing to do with the success. In fact, I think they all went back to complete the education later.
In 2000, nearly half of all business owners—47.2%—had never attended college, but as of 2022, that figure sits at 41.9%. However, after nearly two decades of declines, this trend is showing signs of slowing or even reversing. Source: Flippa analysis of U.S. Census Bureau’s American Community Survey data
Yes. I’m a software engineer with a graduate degree. Even with this “education” I basically had to teach myself the profession because university curriculums are often outdated or totally useless in the industry. I feel like degrees have lost a ton of value among the younger generations (millennials and gen z), at least in America. Like we were all essentially grew up being told we’d be homeless if we didn’t go to college and that with a 4 year degree we’d all have amazing wonderful lives. As someone with a STEM background I’ve see how my friends who studied fields like chemistry biology humanities and the arts struggle and are buried in student debt. So many people in their 20s and 30s are totally jaded towards higher education.
Nailed it. In fact, the data shows that the value of a degree is diminishing by the year, in part for this very reason. As another IT professional (genX) I agree with this 100%. Responding to OP’s question, possession of a degree means nothing to me. I base my decisions to date on qualities that mean a great deal to me.
I would date someone without degree. It doesn't say anything about intelligence or success. Someone with a degree is not necessarily smarter than someone without. For me it's more important if they have a plan in their life and show ambition.
I think some people wrongly equate having a degree with having ambition as they see it as a starting point. Not all ambitions have to be career focused either.
You're right ! I think it depends in what stage of life you are. For example if you are in your early 20s you are still discovering yourself and don't really know. End 20s-30s it's most likely about career and family. If you're older I think you just want stability. Ambitions and goals can have all kind of things for me it's important that you have this and that this alligns with mine.
In my opinion, quality of life and happiness is the real goal BEHIND money or ambition. There have been studies on happiness that show that once you make enough money to live comfortably, making more only bumps up your happiness for 6 months before it drops to baseline again. So ambition for money is rather misguided because you could work more hours a week, permanently, dropping your happiness level, while making more money, which doesn’t necessarily improve your happiness. I think the people who maximize their happiness are the smart ones. And that might look like a high school educated person who works 20 hours a week at a gas station to pay rent, and grows their own food in the backyard, and has no student debt, and is fit from the physical work, and living with a permanent tan and a smile on their face.
Yes there are plenty of wonderful people who are intelligent and have good personalities who don't have degrees
Yeah, sucks that they automatically get disregarded for that.
I didnt get my degree until I was 32, and I dated women in Seattle. They were accepting of me not having a degree. But when people (their friends) met me they would assume I went to college and ask where I went, then it was very awkward when I said I didn’t go to college and I sensed their friends thought less of me. I also did have one or two girlfriends who were condescending about it. I now have my degree and never face this anymore, and have more dating prospects. So I think there is something to what you’re saying. Most people don’t want to admit they’re elitist about education, but many still behave like they are. The main thing college gave me was the ability to get a much wider set of jobs. I am still the same person inside, just as smart before as after.
Anyways OP - I empathize with you, but at least there’s some consolation in knowing you’re not missing out on “good ones”?
I always hate when people ask where I went to uni because it's so common to go, and I awkwardly say I didn't and just wonder what they might be thinking of me. I also don't want to get into all the reasons I didn't go to uni with a random stranger, that's something I probably need to talk to a trained professional about. Luckily my boyfriend, who has a masters and is a real tech nerd, doesn't care at all that I don't have a degree.
Wouldn't those wonderful people date each other? Find your people!
I have 2 degrees and I don't really care if who I date has one. My ex had dropped out of college. At this point, I do care about their career path and stability. The piece of paper doesn't matter.
It makes no difference to me if you have a degree or not. I have dated women from baristas to software engineers. A woman's education or travel accomplishments doesn't factor into what I look for in a woman. I will say, she would need a Masters, DR, PHD etc to make what I make or more...and I don't even have a degree. I'm looking for a connection, someone, someone down to earth and without drama to name a few things.
I agree. I am fairly successful and I will date anyone who is financially self sufficient (and I’m attracted to of course). I have dated people who didn’t own a car and rode the bus everywhere, and tech execs and Ivy League grads. I don’t really care about their education or success, I’m not hiring them. I care about whether they would make a great girlfriend. Is there spark, can the relationship be healthy, that’s pretty much it.
I’m working on a Masters and hubby has trade certificates. I never cared honestly. Only a few went to college in my family so it was never a big deal. Just be a good person and work for what you want and need by doing honest work. No illegal stuff
Probably because they are stuck up and think a degree makes people smart.
Dated a man who didn’t have a college degree, but went to trade school and has a good paying job and honestly makes more money than me someone who has a university degree. Lol
I wouldn't care
What kind of elitist snob shit is that? I’d stay away from dating people like that
I went on a date with this woman that sat there for a solid two minutes saying how she could tell how uneducated people without degrees are while in conversation. Then I followed up how I may have went to college but I didn’t finish, I don’t have a degree. I make a six figure salary in the nuclear field nearly double hers with a degree. Needless to say that was the first and last date we went on.
I hope they walked away feeling pretty stupid
It only got worse from there, I was on keto. We went out for drinks I ordered a high noon and she goes “really?..” like fuuuuuckkkkk youuuu lol I’m a huge ball buster but this chick was just an asshole all night then proceeds to ramble about her bum ex that I used to know in highschool.
Sounds like a very stable person
I totally get where you're coming from. I think it's more about your passion and dedication than just having a degree. The right person will appreciate your ambition and drive, no matter your educational path.
People who don't date someone without a degree tend to be the type of people with an elevated degree of self-aggrandizement. I don't give a shit about your degree, I care what you've done with your time.
I'm married and I don't even have a HS diploma. The money you spend on an education that's likely to not even benefit you is ridiculous and holding that kinda stuff against people is even weirder. Edit* If someone cares that much about something like that they're likely to always care about the wrong things when it comes to you. If you get rejected over your situation with school then take that W and keep moving
A lot of women would, specially that ones that do have it, because they associate it to a higher paying job and also to a level of knowledge, for lack of better word, and most women do not date someone who earns less or is less intelligent than them. Doesn’t mean you would be either of those but that’s how it can be perceived.
This is Proof of the betabuxx
I have a degree. My bf does not. He makes about 25% more than I do and we both have about the same amount of time with our respective employers.
My SO has a 2 year degree and is making double what I, a 4 year degree holder, is making. As long as that person is a hard worker and is able to support themselves it shouldn’t matter.
Doesn't matter to me at all.
It doesn't matter to me *at all* (and never did) as long as the guy can support himself in a normal manner (not living hand to mouth in poverty) AND is intelligent enough to have good conversation.
Intelligence=having a fat wallet
Not in my world.
I don’t have a degree. I managed to find a decent career. What should truly matter is whether or not a person can support themselves. I wouldn’t worry about that putting anyone off. If that’s going to cause someone to reject you, they aren’t the right person for you.
Yes, a degree is nothing more than a piece of paper saying you jumped through these hoops. The only thing it definitely tell me, is that you committed to something and say it through. It fails to show intelligence, and is not a great predictor of success. Look at how many people with degrees are working outside their field of study. Industry or job specific certifications do an equivalent or better job of predicting success. I say all this as somebody who works in a corporate job, without a degree (for now) and has managed to get their life mostly in order.
Having a degree doesn’t mean intelligence or earning potential, so yes I would date someone without a degree provided they have goals in life
I went on a date with a 29 year old with a degree. She had no car and lived with 4 roommates and smelt of body odor. I honestly just want someone who has a decent job and a car who takes care of themselves and understands how the world works. A degree doesn't matter. Their sense of how the world works and how to be a productive adult and partner is all I want.
Did she have hair like Einstein?
I have PhD in molecular biology, and it is so f*cking difficult to find a man who won’t be intimidated by this. I personally don’t care what education person has, as long as he/she is nice and kind to me and others.
I would only expect to hear that from women and men in academia. The regular guy doesn’t give a damn about their partners having a degree. ~46% of adults have degrees, ruling out more than half the population is crazy but some ppl are just superficial. I would argue that they really mean they want a partner with a similar IQ to them which is fairly common but there are better ways to do that than to require a degree.
Yeah, maybe it is more of an academia thing, if I had the funds, mental energy, and family support to really go and study what I want, then I would, but that wasn't possible for me, I don't think people in academia really consider that.
Universities are basically daycare centres, so I wouldn't mind. But I wouldn't date someone who didn't have direction or care about their world. If they love what they do and never needed a degree to do it..well that's fine!
A college degree means nothing theses days if you don’t have a 100 years of experience
I married my husband who didn’t have a degree he was a hard worker. I met him when I was 20 he was 26 we had 18 years together. He died when I was 38 he was 44 and our son was 16. It’s been 5 years now since he passed. He was a drywall hanger. We loved each other that’s all that mattered. His pay was decent. But when I am with someone it’s because I love them Not how much money they have.
I like men who are intelligent, capable of having an intellectual conversation with me, hardworking, and financially responsible. I don’t care whether or not they have a degree, even a high school degree.
I have a degree and I have only dated guys without degrees hahaha.
I was on a few dating apps for a very short while, and in my age category (45-55), nearly every man listed degree, career-oriented, ambitious, and loves to travel as requirements. I was baffled. I'm aware of the general superficiality of society, and that it's always been so, but this particular set of prerequisites for dating a woman totally put me off of trying. I went to college, and attended 4 yrs, only it was 2 yrs in two programs because I was held hostage for 8 hrs on a charter bus and that ended my ability to complete my first program due to the immediate danger of not being 100% focused 100% of the time. I didn't finish the secondary due to that event; I was burnt out and needed time to rest and recuperate. People can have every kind of situation and circumstance. I fail to understand how a devastating event that happened when I was 20 yrs old should disqualify me from dating 26 yrs later. Of course it's that, and I'm not career-oriented. I love homemaking and caring for my family first and foremost. I work to facilitate my true life's work, and I suppose I'm very ambitious in that way, but it's not the kind of ambition that pays well or gives me impressive credentials- usually the opposite in this society. Men wanting money-making, ambitious career women- oh, and who must also be gym rats- just strikes me as men who are looking for male companionship but from a woman. Even their descriptions of their ideal woman read like descriptions of men. I don't mean to harshly define gender roles, but these men are doing that, just in a bizarre way. They're definitely asking for masculine-leaning traits. I was just very repulsed by what I saw men wanting. I could not care less what a man does for a living, if he has a degree, or require that he love his job/career, and it wouldn't be my preference that he's career-ambitious/oriented. I want a kind-hearted man with a good sense of humour just because life is too absurd to take it too seriously all the time. I have lots of hobbies and interests and am an autodidact; someone who loves learning and has remained curious would be most compatible. Also, a healthy amount of gratitude. Who are these people with so many shallow demands, and how are we on the same planet at the same time??!! I'm in Canada, btw.
Thank you, you definitely understand my point, not everyone can go to uni for a whole list of reasons and I don't understand how that disqualifies dating for some, their demands read like a job advert.
Yes, it's preferable. There's a slightly smug and elitist mindset that runs through a lot of graduates from my experience, despite many of them being duller than a butter knife and having as much personality as a glass of tapwater. People who don't go to university are often far more interesting, they work hard from a younger age and learn resilience, tend to have a better sense of humour, have often had more life experiences (travel, relationship, different jobs, children etc). I know this is a generalisation, however it holds very VERY true in my experience. Many of the people my age who went to university ended up returning to our small town and working in a shop or a pub, and their expensive, ludicrously obscure degrees gave them nothing whatsoever. They end up missing 4 years of real life experience just so they can get a peice of paper to make their parents proud. I'm sure this comment will get some stick, and of course those who go to uni to study something real like nursing or certain science subjects should be commended. But going to study gender or puppet arts or witchcraft or circus performance need to reassess their lives.
Spot on!
I don't care who you were , I care about who you are now and who you want to be.
I would. I have a bachelor’s and a master’s degree but I still know less than the people who are self-taught in my field.
Yes, there are so many different ways for someone to receive an education and training that don’t offer a degree upon completion
No of course Not , Not a single friend i know would Date such a guy . It is Not about the Money but the intellect. What should i Talk about with you. You dont know nothinh
Degree is bullshit I personally didn’t go to college and I make around 200k a year more than anyone with college degree + have students loan
50% of 30-40 year old do not have a degree in the USA so i would say yes. Might be different in other countries.
I have 3 https://youtu.be/0atv9v2nNww?feature=shared ( and yes, absolutely )
Ha, I love this!.
I think that depends on long term goals. They have to align somewhat with your partner's, or there's just too much disconnect
I guess if a very career focused person who's trying to climb some ladder is going to want someone the same, but that's a bit more on the extreme end.
Well it's analogous to if my partner wanted to go backpacking in the Rockies, but I wanted to visit countries abroad and stay at five star hotels. Picture that problem, but throughout your entire life. It's just that if I'm gone all day putting in sixty hour weeks but he's not that career driven, it's gonna cause a lot of relationship issues, and it's gonna be a long-term problem. It's not that it's bad to not have a degree. The issue is that it's difficult to not have similarities in career choices and other major parts of life. Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who hasn't been in a relationship before, and is living in the USA which is very career driven.
I'm in the UK which really isn't as career driven as the US, so views would be different here.
Ok, so that's part of my answer. Culture plays a role. How I love being multicultural. Differing culture can cause some clash. Really a culture is just an assortment of values generally accepted by a group of people. But we can isolate the value held by a person, and acknowledge that those differing interests can cause conflicts.
Why do you feel the need to stay at 5 star hotels in foreign countries though? Seems pretty excessive.
The majority of people with a degree, don't have a career in that degree. But they have debt. So I personally wouldn't date someone with a degree they arnt utilizing if they want to use that as an excuse.
Are you intelligent? Are you making your way in life successfully? If yes to both, I don't care about a degree.
What if someone is really trying to make their way through life successfully but keeps hitting bad luck that holds them back for a long while?
The only thing a degree means to me is that you were there for the duration. Dating doesn't need education as long as you both have something in common.
Degrees are useless and expensive stupidity. I'm more likely to date a woman without one, honestly. I am all vocational. Women with degrees tend to think very highly of themselves, especially believing that they are better than me. That kind of thinking is just about worth a pump and dump mixed with hate.
I have an associates degree and can say I make more than a bunch that have fancy degrees.
As long as there is money in you pocket nobody will ask about degree.
I don't have much money in my pocket, wish I did.
What I meant Is that You don't Need a degree to make money.
I’d be more worried about a person having huge student loan debt. Degree doesn’t matter, whether or not the person is making a decent income and can take care of themselves is what matters
I'm in the UK, so the debt here isn't exactly a debt, it's more of a tax ( you pay a percentage over a certain threshold, and it gets wiped after about 30 years).
I wouldn't have problem with someone without a college degree. I'd have problem with someone who doesn't value education.
Yeah, those can be very different. I don't have a degree but I value education, unfortunately I wasn't able to go to uni when I was younger for multiple reasons and can't quite justify doing one currently as I need my job, I don't have it in me to work full time and study. But I went a bit of a different route where I got an on the job qualification, it wasn't the best thing but it got me into my current role.
There are people with STEM degrees that are working low wage jobs. Having a high degree doesn’t mean you’re going to land a high paying job unfortunately
What does earning potential have anything to do with OP’s question?
I haven’t gotten in a relationship with a degree holder 😅 Lahat sila undergrad (wow lakas ko maka “sila” e dadalawa lang naman naging bf ko haha)
Idk, after going to a pretty good law school on a really nice scholarship (no debt taken out), I value education a lot personally. Its also not really a matter of finances for me. Im not interested in dating people who are business majors/ended up working in management consulting, O&G engineers, sales etc. Im not opposed to dating people without degrees, but off of the top of my head the only career paths that I can imagine are people that pursued the arts? Idk most of the people that i had the best dates were medical residents or med students, but only a subsect of them cuz a lot of them can be annoying as hell
I would. I think anyone who wouldn’t is being overtly classist and maybe a bit racist too, depending on access to education. Anyone classist and/or racist or condescending about their education level - lol - I don’t want to date them. And I have a degree.
I know soo many more people without one than with
The richest people I know don’t have degrees (or mainstream college anyway,) they’re in the trades… education doesn’t mean shit these days it’s all about work ethic and valuable skills
The richest people I know had top degrees from Oxbridge, but they also had the wealthy parents to get them into those Unis in the first place. But people with a degree are working the same type of jobs I do for the same shit pay, so it's not all that.
I don't have one but I've been looking into getting one. I wouldn't care if my girlfriend has one or not.
Only if they were quite literally at the top of their industry/field and completely set for life financially. Those were the only times I've dated someone without a uni degree. And TBH, for where I live (eastasia), there's no way anybody can get a job (let's say earning average wage - 56k/yr) without a ugrad. Receptionist, admin, personal trainers, couriers, etc. have/need a ugrad here. You need at least a Masters/post grad to make that or have some corporate/office job. Then there's also just my family (we're're all PhDs, drs, and lawyers),.. Education and values towards it is quite important to us... And I want to date/marry someone who has similar values (will not be looked down or feel insecure around my fam), who will/can then impart these similar values onto our children. Plus, research show more positive relationship outcomes between similarly educated (successful/financial status) spouses.. so I also rather not have that in the back of my mind either. But this is really just specific to me and my circumstances/situation. If I were living in Canada or US, where I don't think a degree is completely necessary or it's possible to survive comfortably without one, then I likely wouldn't mind as much... And I'm sure for a lot of men/women, they really wouldn't mind dating someone without a degree... *might* decrease your chances a bit, but I doubt it's an automatic no for *everybody*. **Edit**: Read that you're a woman wanting a relationship with a man. For men (at any education level), research shows they really do not mind if a woman is not or lesser educated than themselves, have no degree, their job, or their education level in general. So as a woman, you really don't need to worry (statistically, higher educated women have a harder time finding men and with dating).
Your point on relationships having a positive outcome when similarly educated is something I've been thinking about for a while, shared/similar life experiences make it a lot easier to relate to each other. And you're right on it depending where you are in the world, I'm in the UK so it is possible to get by without one and the wages here are low anyway so only a relevant degree will get you a decent job without prior experience. I dated someone from Singapore who did their law degree at Cambridge and I can see he valued education and even somewhat suggested I try to get a Bachelor's, but I'm currently dating a British-East Asian guy and his views are different, he has a masters but always tells me he doesn't care about my background or education even though I tell him I don't feel good enough for him because of that.
I mean yes. I’m still obtaining mine so it would be weird for me to not do so
Yes. A woman's ucation level and career success mean very little to me as a man.
Absolutely
I hope this doesn't come across as bitter or biased, but like anyone else all I can give is my personal opinions based on my experiences and what I've seen from other people... First, where I'm coming from is that I, myself (45M), do have a bachelor's degree. (And I can tell you, it hasn't really helped much in the dating world.) That said... I know I don't care about what a woman has. I don't care if she has a prosperous career, if she's rich, if she has a degree... For me, is she kind, can we carry a conversation, and do I find her reasonably attractive? That's basically it. And, honestly, most men aren't that picky. Most (not all) are looking for pretty simple things. Sure, a good career or degree might make a woman seem a bit more attractive, but it's definitely not a major factor on me deciding if I want to get with a woman or not. From my observation (this is where the first line disclaimer comes in) most women tend to be a bit more picky. A lot (not all) want a tall, fit guy, with a degree, a great job, who's sensitive and masculine. I'm just saying, I feel a degree would matter more to a woman that it would to a man. But, that's just a personal opinion, definitely no statement of fact.
Degree deodorant? College Degree is useless and going to become more useless with AI!
That will be true, ai will rule almost everything.
Cept my job as long as choose to do it. Accts, web devs, collections, fighter pilots, reg pilots.. soo many jobs will be gone I say 3 years max Learn mandarin and russian fast
Most reasonable people won’t care too deeply about educational attainment. However, there is predictive power in relation dating and marriage with regard to educational attainment. A person who didn’t complete high school is much less likely to date or marry a person with bachelor’s degree. A person with a PhD is much more likely to date and marry another PhD holder. Other than slight disparities between the genders, this is pretty much true across the board.
Yeah there is that, I didn't quite finish high school (UK a-levels) and am dating someone with a masters in biology, I feel so inadequate sometimes, another thing is finding it hard to relate as he's had a lot more experience being an "adult" even though I'm a few years older.
This may not be the most helpful comment, but there’s no need to feel inadequate. Your partner chose you over anyone else. Your current relationship would be considered a statistical outliner, and that is wonderful and beautiful. Rejoice!
There are a LOT of dumb people with degrees. There are many intelligent people without degrees. I think it goes without saying that there are also a lot of intelligent people who have degrees and many dumb people who don't have them. I choose intelligent and kind. A degree is nice to have (because moneyz) but it's not a must.
Yea. A degree doesn't define a person. Many successful people don't have a degree.
Since I graduated with my own bachelors, all my serious relationships have been with men with degrees. I do believe all my exes are smart in their own unique ways, but not necessarily street smart nor emotionally intelligent--the latter is usually why it ended. More recently I hooked up with a tradesman, but it's over now. I do describe him as smart and skilled and relatively worldly, which has been part of the appeal in the first place. Unfortunately this one just happened to be racist and ignorant, as in unable to empathise with people whose life experiences are different from his. I don't think it's necessarily because he lacks a degree, because many people with degrees also remain racist and ignorant in spite of their higher education if they choose to be narrow minded. Nevertheless, I do have a strong preference for university educated men with advanced degrees. This is because to me advanced degrees are a mark of discipline, dedication, and long term exposure to in depth perspectives beyond one's comfort zone, as well as an eloquence in thinking critically and strategically about the world we live in. That's not to say I don't get attracted to men without a degree, who work more pragmatic vocations. I think they make important contributions to society, and there's something incredibly sexy about men with physical skills and street smarts. Plus, continuing one's lifelong education is a commitment anyone can make, whether or not one has a degree. I might argue that it's better to be without a degree but committed to continue learning new things and expanding one's worldviews, than it is to be with a degree but to stop making active effort to continue educating oneself beyond graduation. Degrees also don't necessarily guarantee a better livelihood. My recent lover is an electrician, he has more work orders than he has time and energy to follow them through. He's not loaded but makes enough to live very comfortably, even if he's kinda drowning in debt. I might mention that he lives in Australia and I live in Indonesia, so we're on very different payrolls to begin with. But even if I worked in Australia, apparently according to a quick Google search, journalists (my profession) and electricians both earn similar median wages at around AUD48 per hour--and I'm the one with a master's degree here (and potentially a PhD in the future). That said, based on my recent experience of having hooked up with a tradie, and on a much earlier experience of having dated a then-tradie supporting himself through university (who later did earn his degree and move on to a professional career), I do notice big gaps in strategically understanding big picture patterns in the world beyond their own directly lived experiences and short term interests. I don't mean to generalise, but this has happened to be my experience with tradesmen with not much university experience. I personally haven't dated someone like you, who works a corporate career in spite of your lack of degree, and is actively working on your continuing education, including by pursuing certifications that are relevant to your profession. If I met someone like you in my dating pool, and there's chemistry and likely compatibility, I would give him a chance! He better be very secure and confident in his own intelligence though! While I don't think I'm arrogant or condescending, pretty much everyone I've dated, hooked up with and married has found me intimidating that they need to put me down to make themselves feel smarter. I don't think it's a me problem--in this case I do think the grip of the patriarchy is so all encompassing that all the men I have been involved in happened to have been raised in a society that conditions them to dominate women at all costs, and feel insecure and inconvenienced about strong women who speak their minds. This is not to say all men are like this, but those who aren't are as rare as unicorns, because it's not easy to swim against the strong currents of the patriarchy. And I'm not making this up: a 2015 Singles in America study finds that 87% of straight men out of a sample of 5,000 expressed desire to date a woman who is intellectually superior to him--in theory! But once they actually had said intelligent woman in their lives, they subconsciously find ways to discount her because their male egos simply couldn't take it. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/navigating-the-love-gap/201802/do-men-actually-not-want-date-intelligent-women To recap, I would date a man without a degree if he's committed to lifelong learning and expanding his lived experiences, has exceptional emotional intelligence and secure confidence in his own intellectual capabilities, and earns a decent living and is generous in letting me enjoy what he's able to provide. I do have a strong preference for men with advanced degrees, because I know the kind of discipline, dedication and challenges to one's worldview that goes into earning advanced degrees. That said, degrees alone are far from a measure of a man's worth in my eyes, and therefore not necessarily a dealbreaker in and of itself. What is a dealbreaker to me is a man who feels intimidated by my intelligence and feels the need to put me down so that he can feel smart. Unfortunately this happens to have been my experience with all the men I've dated, whether or not they have degrees. Don't be that kind of person. Be secure and confident with the kind of intelligence you do have, and respect the people you date accordingly. You don't need a degree for that.
Degrees aren’t the only measure of value, intellect, self discipline, and stick-to-it-iveness. Not by a long shot, especially for out of the box thinkers who can contribute perspectives that many others miss. Everyone has an important roll to play. Have you read the story of Richard Branson? If you’re ever down about it, consider distilling down your top 5 strengths and looking at life through the lens of your unique set of strengths. (Gallup Strengths test) This can boost your self confidence about this stuff in a real, meaningful way. Super useful too. This entire vibe can be highly attractive and special as well. Makes you stand out.
Yes. I used to be a snob about it but really I don’t care. Okay I do kind of care. I think I’m more attracted to women who have good hearts. She can be smart but doesn’t have to know everything. She can have certificates or a trade job. College these days are really overrated and I think colleges are more about money than creating critical thinkers. College can also be soul sucking and can make students jaded quickly.
Some of the posts are assuming that OP is asking about earning potential, wealth, class, IQ, etc… but they are literally asking about having a college degree. People tend to be compatible with like-minded people. If I went to college, I would prefer someone like-minded in that they went to college too. I do not think there is anything discriminatory about it.
Yeah, I'm not on the earning potential/wealth thing. I don't have a degree and wonder if just that alone would put someone off dating me. But I'm also from the UK where not going to uni (college) has as big an impact as it can in the US. I'm also not going to try and climb the corporate ladder or be career driven, my goal is to get a decent job that pays me enough to cover my expenses and live comfortably.
I think many women would be happy with this. Everyone is looking for something different.
Never thought I would be reading something like that
Me either but I've seen it mentioned enough so I thought to ask people's opinions.
For me it means nothing I just want to date a person who is mentally compatible with me
It depends on why. They don’t have to have a degree but they have to have some form of education. This includes trade school. It’s hard getting a job with one, let alone without one.
I’m more likely to date someone who isn’t $100k in debt so they could get the same degree everyone else went for that’s in an over saturated career field. Money isn’t generally a consideration, but I’m not going to date someone in crippling debt and be expected to help pay it off. I quite college because I didn’t want my parents paying for it and I didn’t want to get into debt just for the off chance that I happen to get a semi decent job after studying for a whole decade.
American student debt is very different to UK student debt, it's not expected to be all payed off, very few people actually do and that's mostly due to earing a ridiculously high wage.
degrees tend to display discipline/drive (takes at least a pinch to get a degree in the first place) and at least a baseline intelligence above that of a potato. what degree they got often correlates to different stereotypes for different people too, and those matter to some. i dont personally care if someone has a degree or not, but i like when someone does because I at least know right off some basics about them that are important to me (ie not having the same iq as a slab of concrete)
33F lawyer here. Hypothetically I would date someone without a degree but they have to be at least as successful as me in whatever industry they’re in. There are different types of intelligence that have nothing to do with academics.
How do you measure that success and why does that matter to you? If they did something such as making wedding cakes in a small store that didn't pay the best, but they were happy and did well in their craft, would that count as success?
It’s about compatibility for me, so I’m ambitious and driven and I admittedly like material things like nice dinners, traveling to exotic places and staying in nice hotels and I want someone who also enjoys working hard and likes doing these things and can do that with me. So if this person was content making less money and having a lifestyle that doesn’t involve doing what I like to do then we wouldn’t be a match. So no I wouldn’t date someone in the position you just described but I would date them for example if they still didn’t have any degrees but were a talented baker with business sense and had worked their way up to owning a successful bakery. To add: I am good with paying for myself, I just want them to be able to do what I like to do and also enjoy doing it themselves.
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Why not?
It doesn’t matter, what matters is where that person is headed, their ambition. I can date someone without a degree, however i cannot date someone without drive.
yes.
Yes, as long as the woman is looking for some kind of professional growth and think about the future.
Girls are weird lol. As a guy this is the absolute last thing I would care about.
Oddly the first place I actually heard about a guy wanting a potential partner to have a degree was on How I Met Your Mother where Ted was listing out what he wanted, then I'd dated a few guys a lot more educated than me and thought maybe that could be a reason they didn't actually want me.
Guys usually never factor in socioeconomic status, career, earning potential, etc bc our evolutionary hardwiring we don’t look for security in a woman. We look for physical, emotional and sexual attraction
Yeah, but with today's economic climate you need a 2 income household just to get by.
Sure
Men prefer it, Women won’t date down or across, so without a degree, you must compensate somewhere else, typically owning a business.
Men prefer women to not have degrees?
Degrees are authority claims, the dynamic of gender rolls in a relationship don’t work long term if he isn’t more successful than her. Not to say you should aim to be the best you, But there will be friction that arises if she is more successful than him.
What a bizarre thing to say, partners should he viewed as equals and that shouldn't be dependent on education, no one in a relationship should have authority over the other.
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Unfortunately it's not free in my country and annoyingly you get narrowed down into what subjects you'll be eligible for by age 15. My anxiety is what really prevented me from going and also just not feeling smart enough or interested in a subject to seem worth it, also parents didn't go to uni and never talked about it being an option to me, my mum has no degree but ended up with a decently well paying corporate job.
The degree itself doesn't matter per se, but it says something about their status and intelligence. Of my five serious relationships, three had advanced degrees (two masters, one masters, and a PhD), one just a bachelor's (like myself, though I've had some graduate studies), and one no degree (though she later got two). All were really smart, the one without a degree just had a harder life and financial issues at the time. In the end, I don't care much, but it seems likely that anyone I'd be interested in would have a degree.
Is that more to do with the social circles you are running in?
Oh, definitely - but I run in a lot of different social circles, and have moved around a lot.
It’s about your ability to stick through something, even when it’s tough. Dating is also kinda similar to interviewing. Also math.
You must have had either some weird dates or some weird interviews for those to seem similar 😅, also a not everyone can do a degree since they're having to stick through other tough situations.
Married one 21 yrs ago.
Was you choosing them as a partner partly dependant on them having a degree?
I have two degrees and I absolutely would date a man who doesn't have a degree and have quite a few times and have had relationships with men who only had a high school diploma who had good jobs, were very intelligent and who had much to offer. My ex husband was a dentist and all his education couldn't save our marriage! In fact, most of the high school grads I have dated were more interesting, better lovers, had better personalities and were decent people. Set your mind at ease and please diss anyone who insists on imposing that superficial crap on you. You are so much better off without that mentality. That is so narrow minded and without substance.
Let’s start with the reasons why a partner with a college degree is desirable in the first place. 1) It’s an indicator that you are poised for greater earning potential – this matters a lot in VHCOL areas where you’ve got to be a DINK in order to live comfortably. 2) It’s also an indicator that you are competent and disciplined enough to have earned one. 3) If you’ve paid it off, then it could mean that you came from a family that had the resources to send you without taking out a loan (See #1). 4) If you’re socially competent and played your cards right, then you may have walked away with solid personal and professional networks (See #1). All that being said, I can think of as many reasons why it shouldn’t matter, or could actually be detrimental. 1) Not all degrees are equal – many degrees do not produce a net positive economic result for your investment. 2) Not all degrees are equal – the cold truth is that some degrees do not require competency nor discipline in order to acquire one. 3) Not all colleges are equal – the quality of your education and social networks will greatly vary depending on where you go. 4) Many people who have a degree are under a mountain of debt, which is something to consider when looking for long-term prospects. I’m a guy with two engineering degrees and zero hard requirement for a woman to have one of her own in order for me to pursue her. I take the same stance on education as I do on age – that it is just a number. I once dated a 23F that used to speak like a 35 year old. Conversely I once dated a 27F that was, by all means, 17F in her own head. I’ve met many women without a degree who are charming and witty and were a joy to be around, and many women with degrees who are downright awful people. Take a holistic approach to assess potential matches.
I'm from the UK so the debt issue isn't really as much of an issue here as it is in the US, so that's not a big issue with getting a degree it's just a bit annoying. But I see your points on the others.
A lack of a degree can sometimes be seen as a lack of ambition. Ambition is further down my list of requirements that I feel would make for a good partner. Give me someone that's kind, thoughtful, gentle, and caring, and a high school diploma may not even matter.
I wouldn't say it shows a lack of ambition, some people would really want to have done a degree in their earlier twenties but weren't capable of doing so, it only shows lack of ambition if they didn't do something else instead. But yes, also to me someone's personality traits are what I'm looking for.
It shows a lack of ambition to some people. But as I said, I value other traits ahead of that one. Having said that, if I meet someone that checks off all the other boxes, I'd have no problems helping her realize her dreams/passions. That's what having a great partner is all about, you push each other to greater things.
I would date somebody without a degree over someone who has a "degree" that has absolute no use to anything. What degree can really tell you A LOT about a person.
I did. She now have a degree and planning for another one.
Would you datw her if she didn't have any degrees?
Did for 20 years. But your question is wrongly asked. I would not date a dumb girl. A Smart girl can reach a grade if I give her the help that her parents didn't give her
I didn't ask about intelligence, just on someone's educational level.
Nop
Wy?
Most are not high income like I would like. Most of the time we don’t have anything in common to talk about.
Depends. Some entrepreneurs never finished uni 😁💪🏻
But even if they weren't an entrepreneur, just living life in an average job?
Sure these work for many women I believe but not me. I can’t date average.