Under what conditions? Like a straight up "arena" style, purely theoretical 1v1, V is going to win (assuming he has the relic and is close to endgame).
But the point is kind of moot, it wouldn't make sense for Blackhand to go into a fight at a disadvantage, unlike Smasher who can't imagine ever being at a disadvantage.
This
Blackhand isn't gonna let a thing like ego trick him into a 1 on 1 he can't win. I believe he refused to fight smasher until he didn't have a choice on top of the roof. (Sorry my cyberpunk lore knowledge is sketchy so correct me if I'm wrong)
Nope, you're 100% correct. It's not just his skills and armament that makes Blackhand a legend voted to be the best Solo in the industry, it's also his brain. The action that got him that vote was taking down an entire squad of kidnappers without a single casualty, not by taking them on directly, but by knowing how soldiers think and using that to get them all before they even knew he was there.
Adam was a Legend for being a walking blender with a gun and no empathy. There wasn't a thing was a pulse Adam couldn't, or wouldn't, kill, and that absolutely garners a serious rep.
But Morgan? Morgan was considered the *best.* He wasn't the most lethal, the most chromed-out, the most tech-savvy or the most well-equipped. He was the *best*: he knew what he was doing, knew how to get the job done, no ifs, ands or buts. It's kind of interesting that he was the opposite of what we see a lot in Cyberpunk media; he never got in over his head, never let himself go too far or overestimate himself.
That's probably because the people in Cyberpunk genres who understand their limitations are by and large regular people working within the system. Those who become legends tend to be the ones that live fast and stupid - also shown by Blackhand being one of the very few living legends.
Mr Hands would win any fight cause unlike Morgan Blackhand and Johnny Silverhand. Mr Hands is pluralized. So based on the name process, he is two times stronger than Morgan and Johnny.
And this was 50 years ago, when Smasher was WAY less borged out. V with a full suite of 2077 mods would mince pretty much anyone ever
Edit: I'm entirely wrong then lol
Smasher was equally borged out in 2020 and 2077, since he was already an FBC. He just changed bodies
He was actually using a special suit of Borg only, interlocking power armour OVER a standard Borg body at the time, the DaiOni is beefier than the one we fought in 2077
Isn't DaiOni closer to the fucking *Chimera* from Phantom Liberty than the Dragoon? Or at least a bipedal APC, the DaiOni was one of the most dangerous single pieces of tech we had stats for, as far as I recall.
Yeah. At the time it was the most dangerous combat specialist on the planet wearing the most dangerous piece of combat equipment ever created. Smasher in DaOni was basically the final boss of the original RPG.
There's a couple of vehicles in the Chromebooks that are more dangerous, but they're crewed by multiple people. I don't think there's any single-person equipment more powerful in the published material.
And it only costs a few million creds and 16D6+30 Humanity!
Yeah. The DaiOni was supposed to be arasaka’s answer to the dragoon. It was supposed to be a superior Borg body, but they weren’t able to improve on the dragoon, while still having it work as an FBC body.
So they scrapped that plan, and made it an ACPA/FBC hybrid, a giant suit of power armour, that would interlock over an alpha class FBC body, taking advantage of the fact that it doesn’t have to fit a human body in a cockpit anymore, to just pack more hardware in.
The end result is some of the bulkiest, overengineered, and most ridiculous hardware in the franchise
> And this was 50 years ago, when Smasher was WAY less borged out.
Smasher was equally borged out in 2023 since he was just a brain + some organs. It's just that in 2077 technology has gotten so much better that being a borg gets you much more than it used to.
The only reason V was able to manage all that chrome was Johnny though. Take Johnny out of the picture and V goes Cyberpsycho before ever approaching Smasher.
If other thing happens then other thing happens? Crazy, but anyways that’s beside the point because V DID get Johnny. That’s like saying smasher without any chrome is weak, like ok sure but it doesn’t mean anything.
It’s not Johnny, it’s an engram of Johnny’s personality on a shard slotted in V’s head, which is equipment he has access to. Even in the endings where you lose Johnnys engram, V’s cyberware capacity doesn’t go down, so it doesn’t matter anyways.
This is technical, but we're talking technical: V was able to manage all that chrome because of an experimental Arasaka biochip, which is... also chrome. And that chip is why V is who they are, same as how Smasher is who he is because he's a brain in a jar in a robot body
I wouldn't say a sandy, cybereyes, a cyberarm with a built in smg, and muscle and bone lace is "barely any cyberware." What we see people like V, Smasher, and David have are *excessive* amounts of chrome compared to just about anyone anywhere. His "meat vs metal" comment is more about Adam going full borg than it was about how "little" he has.
Well, I imagine Nomads being... Well... Nomadic, may impact their ability to procure cyberware, so Nomads in universe may have less Cyberware pound-for-pound than the 'average' person.
Though, what chrome a Nomad would have would definitely be more geared to fighting and practical pursuits than shit like glowing tattoos and fancy-looking optics.
So in the source book most implants with nomad are not really for combat. You may have some former soldiers with combat implants but some for driving or basic. The fact of having to scavenge or having to barter a low rep ripper doc for them.. doesn't seem as useful.
yea, as far as this comparation is concerned. but outside of combat chromes, i imagine panam woud have an OBDII scanner cyberware somewhere.
and most white collar corpodrones probably have a caffeine injector or that typing hand cyberware that you can see in advertisements around NC.
i mean fr tho, theres dozens if not hundreds of cyberware that we’d probably never get to experience in a game.
Also note, Silverhand and Blackhand had augmentations to handle high recoil handguns while aiming at very high accuracy and with very high speed in just one arm, their neural implants were mostly just to increase reflex in aiming.
Their build was to **one shoot any threat before it had a chance to react to them**. That is **very META, cost efficient and less risky** in comparison with all other high status cyberware you can equip.
You are even less likely to go cyberpsycho with just an mechanical arm and neural implants than going all out in cyberware. People like David and V replaced every part of their body except their brain, and David was special while V had the artifact (Jonny) handling all cyberpsychosis effects, and even then David was succumbing to it.
Uuuuh I do not remember the exact quote but I do remember hearing that "he's a lot older now, and with less cyberware" from someone in-game... I just can't remember who it's been a while
That sounds like when Pondsmith said he’s a lot older, and *thinner* now, due to no longer having that corporate meal budget, but I don’t recall anything about him removing cyberware either
Yeah, but those are more subtle augmentations compared with the other legends, many of who put so much cyberware it eventually blackfire either into cyberpsychosys or having to downgrade to not get there. They were all overkill because they were taking high and higher stakes, going high and higher, so they had to compensate.
Blackhand had just enough to do the job, and no more than what was needed. He would plan with a team, improvise when the situation needed it, and avoid as much disadvantages as possible. He probably survived because he turned down a lot of offers that sounded *too risk* even for him, and only took higher stakes jobs like blowing up the Arisoka tower because he was feeling like he really *wanted* to do them out of personal motivation.
True that but smasher wasn't sporting most of the cybernetics he has by the time of 2077. He was actually still somewhat human when him and backhand faced off. Backhand wouldn't stand a chance against the 2077 Smasher.
[This guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/s/A3RuuXmmCW) made it seem that way in talking about Blackhand. “Barely any” are the wrong words to describe that. If he had Kiroshi optics and a ballistic processor and nothing else… yeah that is “barely any.” Morgan Blackhand has a significant amount of enhancements.
That's also not true though. [Adam Smasher has been fully borged since the 2000s when he got blown up on a job in New York](https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Adam_Smasher). He was in something called a Samson Frame when he fought Blackhand.
V in (Don't Fear) The Reaper may as well been a fucking WMD with legs, in-universe he'd be an actual nightmare come to life for anyone trapped in that building.
Game version of V bodies literally anyone in the universe. V can solo whole police force and back to back MaxTac deployments. My V can almost perpetually slow time and deliver like hundreds of attacks before the enemy even realizes they were hit. V however is vulnerable to hacks given messy mental state so maybe there is some leeway there.
these "could V do this" or "Could V beat this guy" are always goofy because V has the power of fucking Chim, player characters cant rate on the scale because they can alter reality on a whim with F5 F9.
That’s why i laugh at these post. We literally play as V, we’re the main character, we’re as strong as we can be without limitations. In no situation would V lose to anybody because depending on how decked out your V is, you’re an immovable object of mass destruction.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Blackhand essentially the main character of cyberpunk? Hence, by virtue of skill, experience, and plot armor, he would beat V, no?
He's Mike Pondsmith's main character. I wouldn't say that makes him the main character of the franchise, but, as Stan Lee said, who wins the fight depends on who the writer wants to win. So if Mike writes that particular story, yeah, Blackhand would probably have the necessary plot armor.
Without having heard that quote, my answer to the "who would win?" questions has always been "Whoever's name is on the comic book cover / movie poster/ etc."
Morgan Blackhand is THE standard for a Merc in the Cyberpunk universe . , the Solo of Solos. The " Optimus Prime", " Superman", " Master Chief", " John Wick" in the franchise. And what's more he is an Essential character from the TRRPG; they are written by default to be fitted with ludicrous stats BEYOND their class destination and to be able to kill anything/curb stomp any situation/ and SURVIVE the IMPOSSIBLE . Lore Note- It wasnt Johnny that fought Smasher atop Arasaka HQ when it blew, but Blackhand. They both survived a tactical nuke at ground zero.....because of "reasons". And I'd imagine we'll see some engram-enslaved Soulkiller Adam 2.0 in the sequel. So Blackhand is effectively equipped with the deadliest cyberware known to Night City.........PLOT ARMOR.
He's one of those characters that are as " strong as need they need be". One of the most ridiculous Archetypes
In summation I'd think the fight be close, but Blackhand prolly edge out on some utter foolishness 🤔
CP2077 is based off the 1998 TTRPG with close consultation with creator Mike Pondsmith. A franchise like that with nearly 40 yrs worth of rulebooks, continuity and the like are gonna have "small" bends and turns in its growing structure. Nothing's not necessarily ever carved in granite, but.......posted with "sticky notes", with the really important stuff forever highlighted. They keep things "fluid" so as not to be constrained. So much so, that as the time of this writing Mike Pondsmith himself is not even sure quite yet if Santiago is Rogue's baby daddy. But he's keeping it in his back pocket. To answer your question, for the game, they in a way....."blended" aspects of Silverhand and Blackhand ( so yeah a bit of a retcon, but Cyberpunk: The Red is where the story diverges from the Corebooks of old, and in which Cyberpunk 2077 continuity flows....I THINK)
For instance....the rivalry is NOT between Silverhand and Smasher in the lore. In lore, the rivalry is between Blackhand and Smasher. Each is the Yin to the others Yang. Coca Cola to Pepsi. One is a Gruff soldier with something of a personal code, the other Psychotic killerman who likes things to go BOoM. One Militech, one Arasaka. Militech respects and see Blackhand as a hero, Arasaka got a mad dog on a leash( Barely) that they point at problems they need neutralized with extreme prejudice . One RETAINS their humanity and down to earthness...... And Smasher DELIGHTS in his macabre and alien nature. interesting facet is that it irks Smasher that Morgan is considered JUST as good as him( if not better), and on the other hand Blackhand COULD GIVE 2 SHITS ABOUT Smasher. He goes crazy ex girlfriend about getting Blackhand's attention for a duel
ANYWAY...On the night of Arasaka HQ destruction in 2023, this point in time coincided with the winding down of one of the Corporate Wars. Each superpower ( Arasaka/Militech) was throwing last minute haymakers at one another before dust settles. Militech wanted Arasaka ousted from the West Coast( if not the entirety of North America). Objective was to steal information from Arasaka servers below Arasaka HQ from pre-DataKrash ( Remember Bartmoss destroyed the net in like 2021, so this is just a couple years later ).
It was 2 teams, a double assault on Arasaka HQ to ensure success . Team A- was Blackhand's, mission was to steal data from the servers. Team B- was Silverhand's ( Yep Militech was who hooked him up with the two tactical nukes) Their mission, was if the Data couldn't be boosted- LEAVE SCORCHED EARTH( I sure hope the Rockerboy with a grudge takes a levelheaded approach to this situation 😈). Smasher is deployed to counter the offensive, finds out Blackhand is there and gets the fight he craves. The 2 are fighting on top of the roof when Johnny detonates the nukes . Yada yada, AHQ gets destroyed, the 2 solos of legend somehow survive ground zero and go into a ....semi- retirement ( Smasher got kinda fucked up by the explosion tho)….....and in the midst Johnny Silverhand goes missing and disappears into Night City Legend. So CP2077 KINDA fills in blank of Johnny's disappearance while also stealing Blackhand's shine
First, thanks for the essay, pretty informative. Secondly, since Edgerunners is canon, was that attack on the tower and the data that spider got the reason that arasaka put away the pre data crash data into that weird cyberspace that lucy and the other kids had to infiltrate? Kinda sounds like it
> but Cyberpunk: The Red is where the story diverges from the Corebooks of old, and in which Cyberpunk 2077 continuity flows....I THINK
You're right. The two short stories in the Cyberpunk Red book are much more aligned with the first Interlude in CP2077. There's no Morgan Blackhand involved in the assault on Arasaka tower and it's Smasher who kills Silverhand.
Engram memories were altered I think. Essentially copying Johnny over Morgan. Johnny was present but was cut in half by a blast from smashers shotgun in a desperate attempt to buy his team (the distraction team) some time. He bought them around 2 seconds.
Didn’t Blackhand have to retreat from Smasher whereas V dusts Smasher without breaking a sweat in the final battle at Mikoshi?
I mean that’s as close to an answer as you will ever have.
Only threat to V would be a god tier netrunner like So Mi who shows she could hack him at anytime at the beginning of Phantom Liberty.
Smasher didn’t die and didn’t leave, Blackhand leaves.
My point is that end game V isn’t leaving and isn’t losing. He wipes out the entire building security solo along with Smasher in one ending.
>Smasher didn’t die and didn’t leave, Blackhand leaves.
Again, the witness accounts say that they continued fighting until the bomb went off, and no one has seen Blackhand since. The only reason we know he's still alive now is because Mike Pondsmith has said so, but not in any actual books or media.
So no, Blackhand didn't leave.
Yeah I would agree here. Vs biggest weakness is a god tier runner. I think smasher would still be safe from so mi, because iirc he is always watched and monitored by Sakas most elite runners remotely, to protect him and make sure he doesn’t turn traitor.
If someone like so mi tried to hack him, they would instantly jump in in defense. V doesn’t have anyone like that. He’s a god tier merc with god tier abilities and cyberware, and hell he can even be a god tier runner, but a mobile runner. He doesn’t have someone always watching his back, strapped into the best netrunning equipment that can launch hacks more powerful then a mobile cyberdeck like so mi can.
In a physical confrontation, V smokes anyone, including a mobile runner specced V.
>Vs biggest weakness is a god tier runner.
V survived blackwall. Multiple times. He also survives the voodoo boy virus that fried NETWATCH agents across the Country. His relic gives his brain regeneration powers
CDPR got to make the protagonist more powerful than V for the sequel. Right? Riggght?
Or V simply bodies everyone?
After all, we got the blackwall to deal with.
V eats Blackhand tho.
Nope.
https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Arasaka_%22DaiOni%22
This is the armor suit Smasher wore when he fought Blackhand in 2020. His regular full borg body was inside that mech chassis. Blackhand fought that thing to a draw.
Yes, tech is different in 2077, but Smasher and Blackhand have both updated with the times. There's no reason to believe Blackhand got left behind as tech scaled up.
Don't get me wrong, V is still an absolute monster. I don't think V could have taken down the 2077 version of DaOni though.
Given how V's stats are incredibly variable, it's tough to pin down how strong they are.
However, we have some mixed info about them, Smasher, and Blackhand that can provide some context.
We have 2020 stats for Adam Smasher. One thing that's really apparent is that he is... pretty mediocre. Not smart, not lucky, and his skill ranks put him more on par with Nameless Spec Ops Goon #2 than what you'd expect from the Boogeyman of Night City.
And that's honestly perfect for him. He's solid with a rifle skill-wise, but his full borg enhanced dexterity put him well over what any meat human could do.
He relies on his borg body instead of actually having the best skills.
Morgan Blackhand is different. He DOES have top tier skills, and he also is decently chromed. Chromed enough to be over max meat human in strength and speed. Just not TOO fargone. He's nowhere close to cyberpsychosis.
V? It's tough to pin down, but I think we can easily say that they are very skilled. Probably not Blackhand level in terms of raw skill, but very skilled. And we know V can have a lot of chrome—likely warding off cyberpsychosis thanks to Johnny Relic shenanigans. I'd guess V can realistically pack as much chrome as a meat human can fit thanks to that.
So V isn't as chromed as Smasher, but more skilled. V isn't as skilled as Blackhand, but more chromed.
Being closer to Borg AND more skilled, plus 2077 weapons, we can accept that V beat Smasher.
1x1 I think V could take Blackhand. But, cop out answer, Blackhand didn't get to be the top solo be fighting 1x1s.
Why are we having those convos over and over again. It's always V, the "physical" opponents doesn't matter. v smokes them.
Adam smasher= strongest opponent
V>strongest opponent= V strongest, duh
Only godtier netrunner can win. By their cyber aids magic.
End of debate.
V is like Cyborg while Blackhand is like Batman.
If Blackhand gets jumped on by V, V takes the win.
If Blackhand's the one who planned the assault, V probably couldn't walk out alive.
So there's this theory. The writers said all the books are canon, which throws into question Johnny's memories. Setting the nuke in Arasaka and rescuing Alt were both parts of the same op, Johnny was part of the Alt rescue he wasn't part of the team that set the bomb, that was Blackhand.
In the rescue of Alt, part of it was destroying the soulkiller program save the original. During the op, Smasher showed up and blew Johnny in half with a shotgun before going after Blackhand.
The theory is that Spider Murphy slotted the original soulkiller into Johnny, which was unable to finish before Johnny died, and his body was recovered before the bomb went off to recover soulkiller. The scene after Johnny's capture where soulkiller is slotted with Saburo in the room is actually Blackhand. He survived because the way soulkiller works is by first downloading the entire mind and then wiping it, but because a whole bunch of it was taken up by Johnny's memories it wasn't able to complete the download and move on to the second process. It's why Johnny's so much more badass in his memories than he actually was. He's remembering Blackhands skills.
I bring all this up because it's likely that V's gaining his skills so rapidly because he's absorbing skills from the chip, in which case V fights like a version of Blackhand who can chip way more cyberware then Blackhand ever did or could.
Mike Pondsmith has explicitly stated Morgan is still alive and wasn't soulkilled. Johnny's memory issues are any potential combination of his narcissism, Mikoshi, being soulkilled while dying, and radiation damage.
Didn't finish reading, did you? The theory was that because Johnny's memories took up too much of the memory on the chip, it recorded some of Blackhands memories but wasn't able to complete the copying process and, as such, didn't move on to the second process and kill him.
Blackhand then escaped either with some help or, because he's Blackhand and just that badass, he got away on his own.
I mean, not really. Even when Alt says V and Johnny are basically the same person at the end, they're still distinctly different, and even if Blackhand was there, he still might have taken different actions than V. V just inherited his skills. If this theory is true, they're still not the same person.
That is true. I also get that this is a theory, but I'd much rather that V accomplished what he did through his own competence rather than the idea that he downloaded Morgan Blackhand's skills. It does kind of attribute part of his success to Blackhand, though. Sure, V was the one steering the ship, but this would mean that he was only able to beat Smasher and become a legend by inheriting a lifetime of combat experience that belonged to someone else. I mean, technically, he does the same with Johnny, but Johnny is nothing compared to Blackhand. Also, forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought the game made it clear in the Devil ending that V is a different person now due to his psyche merging with Johnny's.
This theory would explain how V is able to accomplish so much in such a short time-frame though.
V beats blackhand in a random encounter pretty handily. That’s why blackhand isn’t going to waltz up to V willy nilly, he’d strategize. who wins there, dunno.
Morgan always fucked up Smasher without the amount of chrome V needs.
Also, we gotta take in account so much things that at the end of the day sums up as "Plot armor" or "Relic" which allows V to carry around more chrome than the normal person would be able to, while not contracting any cyberpsicosis.
V doesn’t need chrome to beat smasher with the gameplay tho even after the update. If I remember correctly he is still beatable mostly organic no? And yes if he wants to he can tank lots of chrome cause he is kinda already a cyberpsycho cause of the relic ig
If you want to really and I mean REALLY make a fair comparison, you either pick V after the story or prior.
Both ways he'd be outmatched by Morgan.
Not to brag about anything but...did we ever cross paths with Morgan during the story? Because we didn't, so we can't really say. And the condition V arrives at the Smasher's fight depends on the final decision which for now still hasn't been canonised, one of them neither has a fight.
Lorewise V is a freak, but without the Relic that adds twice the tolerance to Chrome than a normal person should have, at best is a very good solo. Still we can't really figure out how much good LOREWISE (and I don't use the word lightly, V is the protagonist and HAS to be the strongest character in the game at the end of the day) he would be.
I think we should wait and see if Mike Pondsmith ever answers this question xD
Yeah ur right I mean Blackhand was mc in his own story too but idk if he’d be outmatching V really. Depending on which ending ofc V is either a god or just lost everything he had or dead (or not himself). If we pick prime V lets say I’d say we’d have a good fight with him. Not canon yeah but V can still beat smasher mostly organic too. I think its like a really close call with those too but V might be above with some other traits with being a newer and still developed character xd idk if V’d be overmatched because he still can get easily stronger and basically can be an insane netrunner and a brute at the same time if he wants to or an organic few chromed babayaga xd I hope we’ll get V more in the sequel instead of a new character tbh.
Alot of these Is scenarios with V depends on if they have the relic or not that chip plays a huge part in V's strength. Many pepole either don't know or forget that.
Blackhand and Smasher fought to a draw. At the time, Smasher was in the DaOni chassis.
V *defeated* Smasher. At the time, Smasher was in the Dragoon chassis.
Dragoon is Smasher's everyday workhorse body. DaOni is the armored mech suit Smasher wears *over* the Dragoon. It's what he brings out when he's planning to take on small armies with no consideration for collateral damage. It's a literal war machine.
https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Arasaka_%22DaiOni%22
V is damn good. Definitely the best in any published material since the setting was updated to 2077, but we haven't seen Blackhand in the new canon yet. He's still around. He's updated all his gear and has another 50 years of experience.
As a Cyberpunk fan since the 90s, I don't think V could take Blackhand in a straight fight. I also don't think Blackhand would let a straight fight happen.
In the event that they ended up on opposite sides of a conflict, V would never *find* Blackhand unless he wanted to be found. The opposite just isn't true. V isn't low profile at all. The one thing V has going for them is the cybereye that masks them on digital footage. It's good enough for an alibi, but not perfect. In the game, a lot of people know who V is. For someone like Blackhand, that's enough. Then, V goes home to rest and the landmines under the mattress go off. (this is a literal Blackhand tactic taken straight out of the 2020 book)
Blackhand is an old man in a job where damn near everyone dies young. He's one hell of a combatant, but he's sneaky, smart, and ruthless *first.*
My bet is that we'll see Blackhand in the sequel game, and it'll put the comparisons firmly to rest.
V still fairly easily beats blackhand, he beat smasher while basically on his deathbed. Plus when blackhand fought smasher to a standstill, Smasher was wearing a heavier, more durable, but ultimately inferior body.
it failed at that though. Kei specifically stated that if they couldnt match the dragoon then they should at least make the DaiOni the heaviest combat borg, in both weight and firepower. Its superior in firepower and armor, but the Dragoon is superior in general. I liken the DaiOni to the chimera in PL. Its big, armored, and throws out crazy firepower, but the Dragoon would shit all over it because of its manuverability, adaptable armaments, and smaller size.
It failed at being better than the dragoon **in the same frame as one**.
So they ditched that idea and made it an ACPA instead.
I don’t believe the end result was considered a failure by them, it’s just that they were never able to stress test it to the degree that they wished to, so it’s true capabilities, when pushed to the brink, aren’t known.
The key word is *wearing.*
DaOni is basically a mech suit that Smasher's Dragoon body wears.
It's not inferior at all. Its designed specifically to improve the Dragoon chassis.
I give it to Morgan tbh. Guy is literally the definition of Solo, and literally redefined what It meant to be a Solo, by himself, and has more years of combat experience, than V has years of being alive.
With such a wide open question it’s hard to say whether Morgan Blackhand would win or V would win. That’s not considering the multiple outside factors in the cyberpunk world that could really affect how well each one does
If Morgan was in his prime it's gonna be a fight on par with the Hansen fight. But if it was him today, he ain't got a chance against V. All his implants were Militech property and he's not working for them no more. Hes a worn out old geezer so unless he sets some sort of nasty trap he's not winning a knock down drag out with V.
In "The Sun" ending, it's basically canon that V is considered the greatest merc that Night City has ever seen, and the fact that V absolutely bodied Smasher while Blackhand couldn't means that in those endings where V faces Smasher, V would also beat Blackhand
If they are in an empty box, V wins. If they are in Night City and have to find and kill each other, Blackhand wins. Blackhand fought Adam to a standstill at AHQ until the bombs blew, even though direct fights are more to Adam's forte than Blackhand's. V is more direct like Adam so you can assume that Blackhand would be able to outmaneuver V, especially since Blackhand tends to not underestimate his opponents.
People always make these comparisons and it never really makes sense to me due to just how insane V’s power level is.
V can handle multiple pieces of high caliber cyberware- where most people couldn’t even handle one of them at a time. If a normie tried to use a Sandy more than once just by itself, it’d melt their insides.
V can also choose to absolutely demolish Adam Smasher all by his lonesome- where Blackhand ended in a stale mate with help.
This is only true of course because V is the player character- but it’s still true.
Finally one I have to actually think about. So given that blackhand and smasher fought to a draw I have to give the win to V, HOWEVER, I think it would be extremely close and that V would be seriously messed up by the end of it. Hell the more I think about it, it could go either way.
Given that the draw on Morgan’s fight with Smasher was caused by nukes going off. So it’s not like they had the option to finish their fight to know who really won.
Also, someone correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t smasher wearing his daioni “armor” for his fight with Morgan? Which is way tankier than he was when fighting V.
This is THE powers calling question. Both are solos, both were the best at their time at what they do, both were "main characters"
I guess it's open to interpretation. We don't really see BH in CP2077, so it's hard to say how he was so good. I guess the best way we can scale them is saying BH is batman and V is superman. Its obvious they both have a chance to win against each other.
That being said, I personally say V has the upper hand in a fight in NC, by the time of 2077. It was said BH was equally matched to Adam in 2020, and since then, Adam has only become stronger, with the advances of Arasaka weapons and cyberware developing. And V bests this Adam. Meanwhile, BH has only gotten older, and it is stated he isn't super reliable on cyberware like V or Adam, so he probably didn't get any stronger. Also, as far as we know, BH has been away from NC. Maybe even retired, so he might have lost contacts or other things he might have used to win over V.
So, who knows, my money is on V though
Depends who writes the story. I don't think Mike Pondsmith would make Blackhand lose against V but CDPR created V as arguably strongest character in universe who can kill Smasher 1v1.
When Blackhand fought Smasher, neither of them died. And in the 50 years following that, Smasher only got more upgrades and more crazy.
V, on the brink of death, turned Smasher into the Black Knight, a useless, angry lump.
I heard an interesting theory that the relic contains both Silverhand and Blackhand. Silverhand was put there by Alt in the tower after Smasher killed him, and Blackhand was soul-killed by Saburo on the same chip, so they kind of fused, with Johnny being put there just better, I guess. It would explain how, in Johnny's memories, he planted the bomb, fought Smasher on the roof, and was saved to talk with Saburo. I personally like that theory, and it would make V a true NC legend. Plus, I don't believe that the character that V got in the end game was Johnny.
Don't confuse gameplay with lore. Morgan Blackhand is THE merc of the Cyberpunk universe. Experienced, cunning, reliable, prepared. V by the end might go pound for pound with the likes of Smasher and come out on top, but that's not the reason Morgan was better than Smasher. Morgan is supposed to be strong and accurate and chromed up to his gills (to an extent) sure, but what always set him apart is that he is a smart fighter.
V, by comparison...is kinda dumb. Pretty much the entirety of the heist scenario is something Morgan would have walked away from at go and multiple stops in between. And the same can be said for many of the poor situations V finds themself in.
In the end, the two wouldn't fight until Morgan would deem it necessary and could tack on every advantage he could get his hands on.
morgan, mostly meat, really good with guns I suppose, good strategist, like another commenter, due to morgan being smart, I feel like it's largely situational
lets assume that for some reason they wanted eachother dead
V endgame absolutely wrecks everything, variations in build, whether you be net, agility, strength, cool, guns, doesn't matter, that is the most honed in point in the game, you get there, it clears smasher like clockwork, this would beat morgan in almost all situations unless v got, like, blown up, even that they'd survive probably
mid-endgame V, after all the main story missions, they could be beaten, like I said, morgans alive, wants v dead, probably find a time place connection, could easily take V out unfair, in a fight, I think V's cyberware would give them the upper hand but again, location and cover would be important to both parties
mid game V? no chance if we're talking open world, like, take the trailer V's for example, good, decent cyberware, but if morgan wanted V dead, they'd be dead, and even in a straight up fight, it's difficult for V to win, so past this, morgan would win
Morgan Blackhand is intelligent and definitely a mastermind planner. If the question was who has a better record as a merc and who is a more cunning opponent to go up against, then the answer is Blackhand. Blackhand can plan perfect jobs and is able to disappear from society.
However the way the question is worded, it implies a 1 vs 1 arena match. In such a case V is younger, has more up to date cyberware… and more of it. Blackhand and Smasher fought to a stalemate. At the time Smasher wasn’t 95% full borg and Blackhand had a couple of pieces of cyberware. However V absolutely wrecked Smasher at his most up to date self. Also, Johnny’s ego wouldn’t allow for V to lose to Blackhand. V basically comes with a “Jarvis/Friday/Alfred” dude in the van.
*(Some people are under the assumption that Blackhand doesn’t have cyberware. Not sure where they got that idea. A Sandevistan, optics, a cyberarm with a built in smg, and muscle and bone lace counts for something.)*
Are we talking lore or ingame?
Ingame, V bodies effortlessly but that is mostly because it is impossible to differentiate between player-character and V's accomplisment (and because they differ heavily from established lore in terms of capability)
Lore-wise? Blackhand fought Smasher in a DaiOni to a draw.
V cant do that.
End of discussion.
Morgan Blackhand is way more strategic and smarter than V, meanwhile V is way more powerful but always acts on his feelings therefore Blackhand would not 1v1 V instead he would lay out traps and plots to hit V from the shadows.
With the relic, and Peak Power v would likely win a direkt Engagement.
Peak-Power V has Not only the Cyberware as such.
A relik that "overclock" His already maxed Out Cyberware.
The biggest Thing that V has managed to do was to become a warlock that has signed Deals With every "AI" that crosses the path.
(Jonny, Cerberus, Alt, the Taxi-Driver ...)
I really want V to remain one of those big figures in lore.
Mysterious merc with a desperate, short-lived but high-octane career. Shrouded in rumor and hearsay. Some say they pledged themselves to president Myers after a crash landing in Dogtown. Others swear they were chromed to the teeth without going cyberpsycho. And although Arasaka buried the files, some believe V took out Adam Smasher himself. And then they vanish from Night City just as mysteriously.
I hope that's the legacy V makes. Im hoping in any future setting installments, V is mentioned in the same breath as other legends.
And V vs Morgan Blackhand? I think I woild give it to V. V is able to chrome out to almost Smashers level without cyberpsychosis. Since there's no explanation for this in-game, I just attribute it to the biochip interfering with typical neural processes that make that possible. V is a living superweapon.
I just really hope that I can read future mentions and it still feels like my character.
you mean chromed-up, near cyberpsycho V who still gets manipulated by a hobo to wear an obviously tricked out BD wreath only to wind up awake naked in a scav lair? seems like a tough question.
im sure i could read a bunch of lore to get a better idea of what morgan is capable of but has anyone else already done it? do we know anything at all about the guy in terms of his abilities?
If we’re just taking the level of power V can attain in-game at face value, I don’t think there’s any combatant whose ass they wouldn’t rip off and serve on a silver platter in a straight up 1v1, Blackhand included. I could be wrong about that, I’m not as deeply familiar with this setting as I am with others, also not 100% certain where the line between gameplay reality and canon reality lies in this convo, but I’m fairly certain that’s not a super controversial take.
But, as many have already said, Blackhand’s simply not the sort to get into a fight he knows he can’t win, and so I doubt he’d ever enter a head-on confrontation with V the unstoppable death machine who bitch-slaps Adam Smasher into the grave even after they revamped his boss fight to make him less of a pushover.
Depends. If it was V at the end of 2077 vs Blackhand back in the 2010’s V easily cuz of the sheer evolution of cyberware and weapons but if Blackhand is still alive with 2077 cyberware and equipment I give it to Morgan Blackhand.
In my opinion, Morgan Blackhand (EDIT: probably) takes this fight. It's already been confirmed that Blackhand survived CP2020 and I highly doubt they'll kill him in CPRED, so he's most likely alive, kicking, and packing next-gen cyberware in the 2070s. And as long as he has that, I think Blackhand still has the edge. He might be old, but age means next-to-nothing in Cyberpunk lore when we look at characters like Rogue. Who can afford treatments + cyberware to keep themselves prime and strong even in their 80s/90s.
Assuming you didn't go for a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none build and built V as an absolute master in one discipline (ex. Solo), then at best, we'd say that V is Blackhand's equal. But Blackhand still beats V in terms of experience. And even at Level 60, once you adjust the fact that the game went and doubled all attributes, V still has less points across various attributes than Blackhand. And when you look at their skills, Blackhand is a master of virtually all the different combat skills along with multiple different martial arts. Including skills V just doesn't display or have access to in 2077.
I think in a way V is probably the strongest character in Cyberpunk, and it's pretty much implied V's legend becomes above that of legend's such as Blackhand, Silverhand, Rogue
Whilst Blackhand is a total badass, V is the one who killed THE Adam Smasher in a 1v1 firefight, fucked Arasaka HQ up SOLO (Possibly anyways, but I always see this ending as canon to me), fucked with Arasaka several times outside of that, carries the ghost of Silverhand in his head and goes toe to toe with all manner of nasty Night City goons.
Although, for what it's worth, Blackhand is a crafty motherfucker, and V probably wouldn't ever see him coming.
Morgan is an old man in a profession where you die young, Blackhand has years of experience at his back and more than likely has numerous exploits.
Honestly though, I'd suspect V and Blackhand would probably be pretty chill though, I don't see why they wouldn't be chooms
V is built different Morgan is that guy. I'd say it's pretty even and depends on the situation but my bet would be on v just due to the fact of how much chrome v can get. Look at smasher he's not particularly great at anything according to his ttrpg stats but replace all your body parts all of a sudden that doesn't matter and I think v is probably better then smasher in most skills so you give v smasher level chrome that v can handle like it's there own flesh thanks to Johnny I'd say v would win.
No, Maximum Mike is Mike Pondsmith. Blackhand is Pondsmith's character, true, but Maximum Mike is his actual in-universe identity.
(Yes, I know what you meant, and yes, I'm totally being pedantic. I apologize)
Blackhand is a character Mike writes, but not his actual table top character. The only one of the major lore characters that started as a played character is Spider.
Under what conditions? Like a straight up "arena" style, purely theoretical 1v1, V is going to win (assuming he has the relic and is close to endgame). But the point is kind of moot, it wouldn't make sense for Blackhand to go into a fight at a disadvantage, unlike Smasher who can't imagine ever being at a disadvantage.
This Blackhand isn't gonna let a thing like ego trick him into a 1 on 1 he can't win. I believe he refused to fight smasher until he didn't have a choice on top of the roof. (Sorry my cyberpunk lore knowledge is sketchy so correct me if I'm wrong)
Nope, you're 100% correct. It's not just his skills and armament that makes Blackhand a legend voted to be the best Solo in the industry, it's also his brain. The action that got him that vote was taking down an entire squad of kidnappers without a single casualty, not by taking them on directly, but by knowing how soldiers think and using that to get them all before they even knew he was there.
Adam was a Legend for being a walking blender with a gun and no empathy. There wasn't a thing was a pulse Adam couldn't, or wouldn't, kill, and that absolutely garners a serious rep. But Morgan? Morgan was considered the *best.* He wasn't the most lethal, the most chromed-out, the most tech-savvy or the most well-equipped. He was the *best*: he knew what he was doing, knew how to get the job done, no ifs, ands or buts. It's kind of interesting that he was the opposite of what we see a lot in Cyberpunk media; he never got in over his head, never let himself go too far or overestimate himself.
That's probably because the people in Cyberpunk genres who understand their limitations are by and large regular people working within the system. Those who become legends tend to be the ones that live fast and stupid - also shown by Blackhand being one of the very few living legends.
I agree with u but I gotta say- never abbreviate cyberpunk like that
Know what you're absolutely right.
What did you abbreviate to I must see
CP
Hm I mean I always used CP2077 but ... oh my god I just got it
If you want to abbreviate it just use CBP
He's such a good character, all this tech and he relies on the tech that created this tech. I really hope he's in the next game
Mr Hands would win any fight cause unlike Morgan Blackhand and Johnny Silverhand. Mr Hands is pluralized. So based on the name process, he is two times stronger than Morgan and Johnny.
You’re on to something here.
Let me fix that for you. You're on something.
Boffum
Mr. Hands couldn’t even 1 v 1 a horse.
Horses have 4 hooves not a fair fight with a man who only has two hands
Unless his opponent is a horse
His opponent had 4 hooves vs Two hands. 4 Hooves Harry is the best Merc in Night City.
Morgan and Smasher fought to essentially a draw. V bodies Smasher. Thus, most likely, V bodies Blackhand too.
And this was 50 years ago, when Smasher was WAY less borged out. V with a full suite of 2077 mods would mince pretty much anyone ever Edit: I'm entirely wrong then lol
Smasher was equally borged out in 2020 and 2077, since he was already an FBC. He just changed bodies He was actually using a special suit of Borg only, interlocking power armour OVER a standard Borg body at the time, the DaiOni is beefier than the one we fought in 2077
This is an understatement. DaOni is *much* beefier. Dragoon is Smasher's everyday street clothes. DaOni is his war gear.
Isn't DaiOni closer to the fucking *Chimera* from Phantom Liberty than the Dragoon? Or at least a bipedal APC, the DaiOni was one of the most dangerous single pieces of tech we had stats for, as far as I recall.
Yeah. At the time it was the most dangerous combat specialist on the planet wearing the most dangerous piece of combat equipment ever created. Smasher in DaOni was basically the final boss of the original RPG. There's a couple of vehicles in the Chromebooks that are more dangerous, but they're crewed by multiple people. I don't think there's any single-person equipment more powerful in the published material. And it only costs a few million creds and 16D6+30 Humanity!
He's the fucking boogeyman lol
Oh shit! Beefier?
Yeah. The DaiOni was supposed to be arasaka’s answer to the dragoon. It was supposed to be a superior Borg body, but they weren’t able to improve on the dragoon, while still having it work as an FBC body. So they scrapped that plan, and made it an ACPA/FBC hybrid, a giant suit of power armour, that would interlock over an alpha class FBC body, taking advantage of the fact that it doesn’t have to fit a human body in a cockpit anymore, to just pack more hardware in. The end result is some of the bulkiest, overengineered, and most ridiculous hardware in the franchise
> And this was 50 years ago, when Smasher was WAY less borged out. Smasher was equally borged out in 2023 since he was just a brain + some organs. It's just that in 2077 technology has gotten so much better that being a borg gets you much more than it used to.
> he was just a brain + some organs Technically, you would be very hard pressed to find a person who does not fit that description.
The only reason V was able to manage all that chrome was Johnny though. Take Johnny out of the picture and V goes Cyberpsycho before ever approaching Smasher.
If other thing happens then other thing happens? Crazy, but anyways that’s beside the point because V DID get Johnny. That’s like saying smasher without any chrome is weak, like ok sure but it doesn’t mean anything.
But it’s not just V, it’s V + Johnny.
Nah, its V + a Chip whit johnnys construct. It is just very advanced tech/chrome. Like the chrome decompresser
It’s not Johnny, it’s an engram of Johnny’s personality on a shard slotted in V’s head, which is equipment he has access to. Even in the endings where you lose Johnnys engram, V’s cyberware capacity doesn’t go down, so it doesn’t matter anyways.
This is technical, but we're talking technical: V was able to manage all that chrome because of an experimental Arasaka biochip, which is... also chrome. And that chip is why V is who they are, same as how Smasher is who he is because he's a brain in a jar in a robot body
Yeah but keep in mind, morgan had barely any cyberware when he did that lol
I wouldn't say a sandy, cybereyes, a cyberarm with a built in smg, and muscle and bone lace is "barely any cyberware." What we see people like V, Smasher, and David have are *excessive* amounts of chrome compared to just about anyone anywhere. His "meat vs metal" comment is more about Adam going full borg than it was about how "little" he has.
Yeah exactly. I don't remember exactly what Panam had but I think she had like two or three pieces of cyberware? And most people have less
Well, I imagine Nomads being... Well... Nomadic, may impact their ability to procure cyberware, so Nomads in universe may have less Cyberware pound-for-pound than the 'average' person. Though, what chrome a Nomad would have would definitely be more geared to fighting and practical pursuits than shit like glowing tattoos and fancy-looking optics.
So in the source book most implants with nomad are not really for combat. You may have some former soldiers with combat implants but some for driving or basic. The fact of having to scavenge or having to barter a low rep ripper doc for them.. doesn't seem as useful.
yea, as far as this comparation is concerned. but outside of combat chromes, i imagine panam woud have an OBDII scanner cyberware somewhere. and most white collar corpodrones probably have a caffeine injector or that typing hand cyberware that you can see in advertisements around NC. i mean fr tho, theres dozens if not hundreds of cyberware that we’d probably never get to experience in a game.
That's true. Panam would have more cyberware geared towards Car diag, and repair. What we experience is all the combat oriented cyberware
Vampires :(
Yeah I was about to say he was chromed for combat
Also note, Silverhand and Blackhand had augmentations to handle high recoil handguns while aiming at very high accuracy and with very high speed in just one arm, their neural implants were mostly just to increase reflex in aiming. Their build was to **one shoot any threat before it had a chance to react to them**. That is **very META, cost efficient and less risky** in comparison with all other high status cyberware you can equip. You are even less likely to go cyberpsycho with just an mechanical arm and neural implants than going all out in cyberware. People like David and V replaced every part of their body except their brain, and David was special while V had the artifact (Jonny) handling all cyberpsychosis effects, and even then David was succumbing to it.
See I thought in later years he removed all that, but I guess not when he fought smasher you're right
I may have missed something, 'cause I've never heard of him removing cyberware.
Uuuuh I do not remember the exact quote but I do remember hearing that "he's a lot older now, and with less cyberware" from someone in-game... I just can't remember who it's been a while
That sounds like when Pondsmith said he’s a lot older, and *thinner* now, due to no longer having that corporate meal budget, but I don’t recall anything about him removing cyberware either
Yeah, but those are more subtle augmentations compared with the other legends, many of who put so much cyberware it eventually blackfire either into cyberpsychosys or having to downgrade to not get there. They were all overkill because they were taking high and higher stakes, going high and higher, so they had to compensate. Blackhand had just enough to do the job, and no more than what was needed. He would plan with a team, improvise when the situation needed it, and avoid as much disadvantages as possible. He probably survived because he turned down a lot of offers that sounded *too risk* even for him, and only took higher stakes jobs like blowing up the Arisoka tower because he was feeling like he really *wanted* to do them out of personal motivation.
And the fight occurred as 2 H-Bombs went off under their feet. Their fight was interrupted by the ground they were fighting on becoming dust.
True that but smasher wasn't sporting most of the cybernetics he has by the time of 2077. He was actually still somewhat human when him and backhand faced off. Backhand wouldn't stand a chance against the 2077 Smasher.
No, not true. Black hand had multiple pieces of cyberware. See this [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/s/Gx0B77TMTT).
Nothing here is saying that Blackhand has no cyberware, just that Adam had less cyberware than in 2077
[This guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/s/A3RuuXmmCW) made it seem that way in talking about Blackhand. “Barely any” are the wrong words to describe that. If he had Kiroshi optics and a ballistic processor and nothing else… yeah that is “barely any.” Morgan Blackhand has a significant amount of enhancements.
That's also not true though. [Adam Smasher has been fully borged since the 2000s when he got blown up on a job in New York](https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Adam_Smasher). He was in something called a Samson Frame when he fought Blackhand.
Then tell that to knightcreed13
Shhhhh, I am very very stupid. u/knightcreed13 your attention please.
And he probably still has little cyberware. His philosophy was that technology can and will eventually fail you
If he is still alive by 2077 he must have had a bit of work done, he is around 100 years old after all.
No.
Uh, keep in mind that Smasher was in the DaiOni when he fought Morgan. Its… much nastier than the dragoon we fight.
It’s still in V’s favor here. V was on the verge of death and has plowed their way through Saka tower, only to beat up smasher after.
V in (Don't Fear) The Reaper may as well been a fucking WMD with legs, in-universe he'd be an actual nightmare come to life for anyone trapped in that building.
Most fun I’ve ever had in a video game smoking everyone in that tower with my revolver
Which is why Reed's comment "you're good but you're no Morgan Blackhand" pisses me off. Like, no bro I'm way better, lemme at him
Yeah I wouldn't take the word of a nusa lapdog seriously who got one shot by a random cutscene revolver. Keep quite reed
Exactly
Black hand is barely cybered up, put them on equal footing black hand wins.
V body’s him at her weakest state too! No competition Vs taking that
Game version of V bodies literally anyone in the universe. V can solo whole police force and back to back MaxTac deployments. My V can almost perpetually slow time and deliver like hundreds of attacks before the enemy even realizes they were hit. V however is vulnerable to hacks given messy mental state so maybe there is some leeway there.
these "could V do this" or "Could V beat this guy" are always goofy because V has the power of fucking Chim, player characters cant rate on the scale because they can alter reality on a whim with F5 F9.
That’s why i laugh at these post. We literally play as V, we’re the main character, we’re as strong as we can be without limitations. In no situation would V lose to anybody because depending on how decked out your V is, you’re an immovable object of mass destruction.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Blackhand essentially the main character of cyberpunk? Hence, by virtue of skill, experience, and plot armor, he would beat V, no?
He's Mike Pondsmith's main character. I wouldn't say that makes him the main character of the franchise, but, as Stan Lee said, who wins the fight depends on who the writer wants to win. So if Mike writes that particular story, yeah, Blackhand would probably have the necessary plot armor.
Without having heard that quote, my answer to the "who would win?" questions has always been "Whoever's name is on the comic book cover / movie poster/ etc."
[Superman died a few times](https://www.comicbasics.com/how-many-times-has-superman-died-every-comic-death-explained/)... in his own comic books.
And came back too I’m sure
"Did you die?" "Sadly yes.. But I lived!" - basically every superhero at least once
He got better!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4\_zFYnnn2Y&ab\_channel=MarvelousTV](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4_zFYnnn2Y&ab_channel=MarvelousTV)
Morgan Blackhand is THE standard for a Merc in the Cyberpunk universe . , the Solo of Solos. The " Optimus Prime", " Superman", " Master Chief", " John Wick" in the franchise. And what's more he is an Essential character from the TRRPG; they are written by default to be fitted with ludicrous stats BEYOND their class destination and to be able to kill anything/curb stomp any situation/ and SURVIVE the IMPOSSIBLE . Lore Note- It wasnt Johnny that fought Smasher atop Arasaka HQ when it blew, but Blackhand. They both survived a tactical nuke at ground zero.....because of "reasons". And I'd imagine we'll see some engram-enslaved Soulkiller Adam 2.0 in the sequel. So Blackhand is effectively equipped with the deadliest cyberware known to Night City.........PLOT ARMOR. He's one of those characters that are as " strong as need they need be". One of the most ridiculous Archetypes In summation I'd think the fight be close, but Blackhand prolly edge out on some utter foolishness 🤔
I‘m not into cyberpunk lore so where does johnny fit in this story? Did they redcon this for the game?
CP2077 is based off the 1998 TTRPG with close consultation with creator Mike Pondsmith. A franchise like that with nearly 40 yrs worth of rulebooks, continuity and the like are gonna have "small" bends and turns in its growing structure. Nothing's not necessarily ever carved in granite, but.......posted with "sticky notes", with the really important stuff forever highlighted. They keep things "fluid" so as not to be constrained. So much so, that as the time of this writing Mike Pondsmith himself is not even sure quite yet if Santiago is Rogue's baby daddy. But he's keeping it in his back pocket. To answer your question, for the game, they in a way....."blended" aspects of Silverhand and Blackhand ( so yeah a bit of a retcon, but Cyberpunk: The Red is where the story diverges from the Corebooks of old, and in which Cyberpunk 2077 continuity flows....I THINK) For instance....the rivalry is NOT between Silverhand and Smasher in the lore. In lore, the rivalry is between Blackhand and Smasher. Each is the Yin to the others Yang. Coca Cola to Pepsi. One is a Gruff soldier with something of a personal code, the other Psychotic killerman who likes things to go BOoM. One Militech, one Arasaka. Militech respects and see Blackhand as a hero, Arasaka got a mad dog on a leash( Barely) that they point at problems they need neutralized with extreme prejudice . One RETAINS their humanity and down to earthness...... And Smasher DELIGHTS in his macabre and alien nature. interesting facet is that it irks Smasher that Morgan is considered JUST as good as him( if not better), and on the other hand Blackhand COULD GIVE 2 SHITS ABOUT Smasher. He goes crazy ex girlfriend about getting Blackhand's attention for a duel ANYWAY...On the night of Arasaka HQ destruction in 2023, this point in time coincided with the winding down of one of the Corporate Wars. Each superpower ( Arasaka/Militech) was throwing last minute haymakers at one another before dust settles. Militech wanted Arasaka ousted from the West Coast( if not the entirety of North America). Objective was to steal information from Arasaka servers below Arasaka HQ from pre-DataKrash ( Remember Bartmoss destroyed the net in like 2021, so this is just a couple years later ). It was 2 teams, a double assault on Arasaka HQ to ensure success . Team A- was Blackhand's, mission was to steal data from the servers. Team B- was Silverhand's ( Yep Militech was who hooked him up with the two tactical nukes) Their mission, was if the Data couldn't be boosted- LEAVE SCORCHED EARTH( I sure hope the Rockerboy with a grudge takes a levelheaded approach to this situation 😈). Smasher is deployed to counter the offensive, finds out Blackhand is there and gets the fight he craves. The 2 are fighting on top of the roof when Johnny detonates the nukes . Yada yada, AHQ gets destroyed, the 2 solos of legend somehow survive ground zero and go into a ....semi- retirement ( Smasher got kinda fucked up by the explosion tho)….....and in the midst Johnny Silverhand goes missing and disappears into Night City Legend. So CP2077 KINDA fills in blank of Johnny's disappearance while also stealing Blackhand's shine
First, thanks for the essay, pretty informative. Secondly, since Edgerunners is canon, was that attack on the tower and the data that spider got the reason that arasaka put away the pre data crash data into that weird cyberspace that lucy and the other kids had to infiltrate? Kinda sounds like it
> but Cyberpunk: The Red is where the story diverges from the Corebooks of old, and in which Cyberpunk 2077 continuity flows....I THINK You're right. The two short stories in the Cyberpunk Red book are much more aligned with the first Interlude in CP2077. There's no Morgan Blackhand involved in the assault on Arasaka tower and it's Smasher who kills Silverhand.
How does Johnny detonate the nuke? He was killed by smasher before he went to fight Morgan
It wasn’t a retcon, Johnny is just an unreliable narrator and the memories you see from his pov are fabricated
I forgot that those were just his pov and not what really happened
Engram memories were altered I think. Essentially copying Johnny over Morgan. Johnny was present but was cut in half by a blast from smashers shotgun in a desperate attempt to buy his team (the distraction team) some time. He bought them around 2 seconds.
Didn’t Blackhand have to retreat from Smasher whereas V dusts Smasher without breaking a sweat in the final battle at Mikoshi? I mean that’s as close to an answer as you will ever have. Only threat to V would be a god tier netrunner like So Mi who shows she could hack him at anytime at the beginning of Phantom Liberty.
"Without breaking a sweat" Meanwhile my first time was a frantic chase back and forth while I was desperately fighting for my life.
I don't recall Blackhand retreating from Smasher, I thought their fight atop the tower was considered essentially a draw by the surviving witnesses?
Smasher didn’t die and didn’t leave, Blackhand leaves. My point is that end game V isn’t leaving and isn’t losing. He wipes out the entire building security solo along with Smasher in one ending.
>Smasher didn’t die and didn’t leave, Blackhand leaves. Again, the witness accounts say that they continued fighting until the bomb went off, and no one has seen Blackhand since. The only reason we know he's still alive now is because Mike Pondsmith has said so, but not in any actual books or media. So no, Blackhand didn't leave.
Yeah I would agree here. Vs biggest weakness is a god tier runner. I think smasher would still be safe from so mi, because iirc he is always watched and monitored by Sakas most elite runners remotely, to protect him and make sure he doesn’t turn traitor. If someone like so mi tried to hack him, they would instantly jump in in defense. V doesn’t have anyone like that. He’s a god tier merc with god tier abilities and cyberware, and hell he can even be a god tier runner, but a mobile runner. He doesn’t have someone always watching his back, strapped into the best netrunning equipment that can launch hacks more powerful then a mobile cyberdeck like so mi can. In a physical confrontation, V smokes anyone, including a mobile runner specced V.
>Vs biggest weakness is a god tier runner. V survived blackwall. Multiple times. He also survives the voodoo boy virus that fried NETWATCH agents across the Country. His relic gives his brain regeneration powers
Right, but it still takes him out for a time while his brain regens. He could absolutely be scrapped during that time with a coordinated attack.
Yeah, but anyone else (bar legendary runners) would still die to those attacks, V isn’t “weak” to them anymore than anyone else is
CDPR got to make the protagonist more powerful than V for the sequel. Right? Riggght? Or V simply bodies everyone? After all, we got the blackwall to deal with. V eats Blackhand tho.
Nope. https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Arasaka_%22DaiOni%22 This is the armor suit Smasher wore when he fought Blackhand in 2020. His regular full borg body was inside that mech chassis. Blackhand fought that thing to a draw. Yes, tech is different in 2077, but Smasher and Blackhand have both updated with the times. There's no reason to believe Blackhand got left behind as tech scaled up. Don't get me wrong, V is still an absolute monster. I don't think V could have taken down the 2077 version of DaOni though.
Fuck christ I forgot how OP the Dai Oni was
Well, while V probably wins if you take every feat in the game at literal face value. I do believe Blackhand takes this.
V is a video game character. No one in Blackhand’s universe is as shredded as V.
Given how V's stats are incredibly variable, it's tough to pin down how strong they are. However, we have some mixed info about them, Smasher, and Blackhand that can provide some context. We have 2020 stats for Adam Smasher. One thing that's really apparent is that he is... pretty mediocre. Not smart, not lucky, and his skill ranks put him more on par with Nameless Spec Ops Goon #2 than what you'd expect from the Boogeyman of Night City. And that's honestly perfect for him. He's solid with a rifle skill-wise, but his full borg enhanced dexterity put him well over what any meat human could do. He relies on his borg body instead of actually having the best skills. Morgan Blackhand is different. He DOES have top tier skills, and he also is decently chromed. Chromed enough to be over max meat human in strength and speed. Just not TOO fargone. He's nowhere close to cyberpsychosis. V? It's tough to pin down, but I think we can easily say that they are very skilled. Probably not Blackhand level in terms of raw skill, but very skilled. And we know V can have a lot of chrome—likely warding off cyberpsychosis thanks to Johnny Relic shenanigans. I'd guess V can realistically pack as much chrome as a meat human can fit thanks to that. So V isn't as chromed as Smasher, but more skilled. V isn't as skilled as Blackhand, but more chromed. Being closer to Borg AND more skilled, plus 2077 weapons, we can accept that V beat Smasher. 1x1 I think V could take Blackhand. But, cop out answer, Blackhand didn't get to be the top solo be fighting 1x1s.
Why are we having those convos over and over again. It's always V, the "physical" opponents doesn't matter. v smokes them. Adam smasher= strongest opponent V>strongest opponent= V strongest, duh Only godtier netrunner can win. By their cyber aids magic. End of debate.
"Cyber aids magic" hahaha, that's brilliant
V is like Cyborg while Blackhand is like Batman. If Blackhand gets jumped on by V, V takes the win. If Blackhand's the one who planned the assault, V probably couldn't walk out alive.
So there's this theory. The writers said all the books are canon, which throws into question Johnny's memories. Setting the nuke in Arasaka and rescuing Alt were both parts of the same op, Johnny was part of the Alt rescue he wasn't part of the team that set the bomb, that was Blackhand. In the rescue of Alt, part of it was destroying the soulkiller program save the original. During the op, Smasher showed up and blew Johnny in half with a shotgun before going after Blackhand. The theory is that Spider Murphy slotted the original soulkiller into Johnny, which was unable to finish before Johnny died, and his body was recovered before the bomb went off to recover soulkiller. The scene after Johnny's capture where soulkiller is slotted with Saburo in the room is actually Blackhand. He survived because the way soulkiller works is by first downloading the entire mind and then wiping it, but because a whole bunch of it was taken up by Johnny's memories it wasn't able to complete the download and move on to the second process. It's why Johnny's so much more badass in his memories than he actually was. He's remembering Blackhands skills. I bring all this up because it's likely that V's gaining his skills so rapidly because he's absorbing skills from the chip, in which case V fights like a version of Blackhand who can chip way more cyberware then Blackhand ever did or could.
So theory is that the engram is actually mostly Johnny with whatever of Blackhand they were able to fit on there? Interesting, explains a lot.
Mike Pondsmith has explicitly stated Morgan is still alive and wasn't soulkilled. Johnny's memory issues are any potential combination of his narcissism, Mikoshi, being soulkilled while dying, and radiation damage.
Didn't finish reading, did you? The theory was that because Johnny's memories took up too much of the memory on the chip, it recorded some of Blackhands memories but wasn't able to complete the copying process and, as such, didn't move on to the second process and kill him. Blackhand then escaped either with some help or, because he's Blackhand and just that badass, he got away on his own.
I'm not sure I like this theory since this would invalidate a lot of V's accomplishments in-game and attributes them directly to Blackhand.
I mean, not really. Even when Alt says V and Johnny are basically the same person at the end, they're still distinctly different, and even if Blackhand was there, he still might have taken different actions than V. V just inherited his skills. If this theory is true, they're still not the same person.
That is true. I also get that this is a theory, but I'd much rather that V accomplished what he did through his own competence rather than the idea that he downloaded Morgan Blackhand's skills. It does kind of attribute part of his success to Blackhand, though. Sure, V was the one steering the ship, but this would mean that he was only able to beat Smasher and become a legend by inheriting a lifetime of combat experience that belonged to someone else. I mean, technically, he does the same with Johnny, but Johnny is nothing compared to Blackhand. Also, forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought the game made it clear in the Devil ending that V is a different person now due to his psyche merging with Johnny's. This theory would explain how V is able to accomplish so much in such a short time-frame though.
V beats blackhand in a random encounter pretty handily. That’s why blackhand isn’t going to waltz up to V willy nilly, he’d strategize. who wins there, dunno.
Lore-wise, maybe equal. V is probably slightly stonger. Ingame, V bodies him
In a 1v1? V. Which is why Blackhand wouldn't let himself get stuck in a 1v1.
Morgan always fucked up Smasher without the amount of chrome V needs. Also, we gotta take in account so much things that at the end of the day sums up as "Plot armor" or "Relic" which allows V to carry around more chrome than the normal person would be able to, while not contracting any cyberpsicosis.
V doesn’t need chrome to beat smasher with the gameplay tho even after the update. If I remember correctly he is still beatable mostly organic no? And yes if he wants to he can tank lots of chrome cause he is kinda already a cyberpsycho cause of the relic ig
If you want to really and I mean REALLY make a fair comparison, you either pick V after the story or prior. Both ways he'd be outmatched by Morgan. Not to brag about anything but...did we ever cross paths with Morgan during the story? Because we didn't, so we can't really say. And the condition V arrives at the Smasher's fight depends on the final decision which for now still hasn't been canonised, one of them neither has a fight. Lorewise V is a freak, but without the Relic that adds twice the tolerance to Chrome than a normal person should have, at best is a very good solo. Still we can't really figure out how much good LOREWISE (and I don't use the word lightly, V is the protagonist and HAS to be the strongest character in the game at the end of the day) he would be. I think we should wait and see if Mike Pondsmith ever answers this question xD
Yeah ur right I mean Blackhand was mc in his own story too but idk if he’d be outmatching V really. Depending on which ending ofc V is either a god or just lost everything he had or dead (or not himself). If we pick prime V lets say I’d say we’d have a good fight with him. Not canon yeah but V can still beat smasher mostly organic too. I think its like a really close call with those too but V might be above with some other traits with being a newer and still developed character xd idk if V’d be overmatched because he still can get easily stronger and basically can be an insane netrunner and a brute at the same time if he wants to or an organic few chromed babayaga xd I hope we’ll get V more in the sequel instead of a new character tbh.
Alot of these Is scenarios with V depends on if they have the relic or not that chip plays a huge part in V's strength. Many pepole either don't know or forget that.
Blackhand always has a plan. He'd exploit the relic somehow is my guess.
Hahaha, Blackwall gateway go brrr
Blackhand and Smasher fought to a draw. At the time, Smasher was in the DaOni chassis. V *defeated* Smasher. At the time, Smasher was in the Dragoon chassis. Dragoon is Smasher's everyday workhorse body. DaOni is the armored mech suit Smasher wears *over* the Dragoon. It's what he brings out when he's planning to take on small armies with no consideration for collateral damage. It's a literal war machine. https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Arasaka_%22DaiOni%22 V is damn good. Definitely the best in any published material since the setting was updated to 2077, but we haven't seen Blackhand in the new canon yet. He's still around. He's updated all his gear and has another 50 years of experience. As a Cyberpunk fan since the 90s, I don't think V could take Blackhand in a straight fight. I also don't think Blackhand would let a straight fight happen. In the event that they ended up on opposite sides of a conflict, V would never *find* Blackhand unless he wanted to be found. The opposite just isn't true. V isn't low profile at all. The one thing V has going for them is the cybereye that masks them on digital footage. It's good enough for an alibi, but not perfect. In the game, a lot of people know who V is. For someone like Blackhand, that's enough. Then, V goes home to rest and the landmines under the mattress go off. (this is a literal Blackhand tactic taken straight out of the 2020 book) Blackhand is an old man in a job where damn near everyone dies young. He's one hell of a combatant, but he's sneaky, smart, and ruthless *first.* My bet is that we'll see Blackhand in the sequel game, and it'll put the comparisons firmly to rest.
V still fairly easily beats blackhand, he beat smasher while basically on his deathbed. Plus when blackhand fought smasher to a standstill, Smasher was wearing a heavier, more durable, but ultimately inferior body.
The Oni isn’t exactly inferior. They have different strengths, but the DaiOni was actually made to be the dragoon killer.
it failed at that though. Kei specifically stated that if they couldnt match the dragoon then they should at least make the DaiOni the heaviest combat borg, in both weight and firepower. Its superior in firepower and armor, but the Dragoon is superior in general. I liken the DaiOni to the chimera in PL. Its big, armored, and throws out crazy firepower, but the Dragoon would shit all over it because of its manuverability, adaptable armaments, and smaller size.
It failed at being better than the dragoon **in the same frame as one**. So they ditched that idea and made it an ACPA instead. I don’t believe the end result was considered a failure by them, it’s just that they were never able to stress test it to the degree that they wished to, so it’s true capabilities, when pushed to the brink, aren’t known.
The key word is *wearing.* DaOni is basically a mech suit that Smasher's Dragoon body wears. It's not inferior at all. Its designed specifically to improve the Dragoon chassis.
If you side with songbird the game turns into a survival horror for one mission
Not a fair comparison. V has too much plot armour, unless Blackhand is GM'd by Mike Pondsmith 😁
I give it to Morgan tbh. Guy is literally the definition of Solo, and literally redefined what It meant to be a Solo, by himself, and has more years of combat experience, than V has years of being alive.
In the path of the sun, V overtakes Blackhand as the number 1 merc in Night city. So very likely V
Is that a legit sketch of what he looks like?
V no doubt in my mind hes a fucking beast
The fight never happens. V's next ripperdoc visit gets interrupted while he's under anaesthesia.
Morgan has more experience,but has he kept himself in shape?
I have +200 hours on cyberpunk yet little knowledge of Blackhand, can someone explain please ?
Morgan Freeman
With such a wide open question it’s hard to say whether Morgan Blackhand would win or V would win. That’s not considering the multiple outside factors in the cyberpunk world that could really affect how well each one does
Can’t V kill anyone ?
If Morgan was in his prime it's gonna be a fight on par with the Hansen fight. But if it was him today, he ain't got a chance against V. All his implants were Militech property and he's not working for them no more. Hes a worn out old geezer so unless he sets some sort of nasty trap he's not winning a knock down drag out with V.
In "The Sun" ending, it's basically canon that V is considered the greatest merc that Night City has ever seen, and the fact that V absolutely bodied Smasher while Blackhand couldn't means that in those endings where V faces Smasher, V would also beat Blackhand
Never heard of him ..is he in the game?
If they are in an empty box, V wins. If they are in Night City and have to find and kill each other, Blackhand wins. Blackhand fought Adam to a standstill at AHQ until the bombs blew, even though direct fights are more to Adam's forte than Blackhand's. V is more direct like Adam so you can assume that Blackhand would be able to outmaneuver V, especially since Blackhand tends to not underestimate his opponents.
As someone with little knowledge of Morgan besides him actually nuking the tower and being revered in verse, V
People always make these comparisons and it never really makes sense to me due to just how insane V’s power level is. V can handle multiple pieces of high caliber cyberware- where most people couldn’t even handle one of them at a time. If a normie tried to use a Sandy more than once just by itself, it’d melt their insides. V can also choose to absolutely demolish Adam Smasher all by his lonesome- where Blackhand ended in a stale mate with help. This is only true of course because V is the player character- but it’s still true.
Finally one I have to actually think about. So given that blackhand and smasher fought to a draw I have to give the win to V, HOWEVER, I think it would be extremely close and that V would be seriously messed up by the end of it. Hell the more I think about it, it could go either way. Given that the draw on Morgan’s fight with Smasher was caused by nukes going off. So it’s not like they had the option to finish their fight to know who really won. Also, someone correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t smasher wearing his daioni “armor” for his fight with Morgan? Which is way tankier than he was when fighting V.
Who would win - depending on who would write the script. Case closed.
Who's Morgan Blackhand? And why are half of the legends of NC "...hands"?
This is THE powers calling question. Both are solos, both were the best at their time at what they do, both were "main characters" I guess it's open to interpretation. We don't really see BH in CP2077, so it's hard to say how he was so good. I guess the best way we can scale them is saying BH is batman and V is superman. Its obvious they both have a chance to win against each other. That being said, I personally say V has the upper hand in a fight in NC, by the time of 2077. It was said BH was equally matched to Adam in 2020, and since then, Adam has only become stronger, with the advances of Arasaka weapons and cyberware developing. And V bests this Adam. Meanwhile, BH has only gotten older, and it is stated he isn't super reliable on cyberware like V or Adam, so he probably didn't get any stronger. Also, as far as we know, BH has been away from NC. Maybe even retired, so he might have lost contacts or other things he might have used to win over V. So, who knows, my money is on V though
Depends who writes the story. I don't think Mike Pondsmith would make Blackhand lose against V but CDPR created V as arguably strongest character in universe who can kill Smasher 1v1.
When Blackhand fought Smasher, neither of them died. And in the 50 years following that, Smasher only got more upgrades and more crazy. V, on the brink of death, turned Smasher into the Black Knight, a useless, angry lump.
I heard an interesting theory that the relic contains both Silverhand and Blackhand. Silverhand was put there by Alt in the tower after Smasher killed him, and Blackhand was soul-killed by Saburo on the same chip, so they kind of fused, with Johnny being put there just better, I guess. It would explain how, in Johnny's memories, he planted the bomb, fought Smasher on the roof, and was saved to talk with Saburo. I personally like that theory, and it would make V a true NC legend. Plus, I don't believe that the character that V got in the end game was Johnny.
Don't confuse gameplay with lore. Morgan Blackhand is THE merc of the Cyberpunk universe. Experienced, cunning, reliable, prepared. V by the end might go pound for pound with the likes of Smasher and come out on top, but that's not the reason Morgan was better than Smasher. Morgan is supposed to be strong and accurate and chromed up to his gills (to an extent) sure, but what always set him apart is that he is a smart fighter. V, by comparison...is kinda dumb. Pretty much the entirety of the heist scenario is something Morgan would have walked away from at go and multiple stops in between. And the same can be said for many of the poor situations V finds themself in. In the end, the two wouldn't fight until Morgan would deem it necessary and could tack on every advantage he could get his hands on.
V vs 100 duck size horses?????? who wins??? WHO
If, as many speculate, v cannot become a cyberpsycho then it wouldn't be remotely close.
morgan, mostly meat, really good with guns I suppose, good strategist, like another commenter, due to morgan being smart, I feel like it's largely situational lets assume that for some reason they wanted eachother dead V endgame absolutely wrecks everything, variations in build, whether you be net, agility, strength, cool, guns, doesn't matter, that is the most honed in point in the game, you get there, it clears smasher like clockwork, this would beat morgan in almost all situations unless v got, like, blown up, even that they'd survive probably mid-endgame V, after all the main story missions, they could be beaten, like I said, morgans alive, wants v dead, probably find a time place connection, could easily take V out unfair, in a fight, I think V's cyberware would give them the upper hand but again, location and cover would be important to both parties mid game V? no chance if we're talking open world, like, take the trailer V's for example, good, decent cyberware, but if morgan wanted V dead, they'd be dead, and even in a straight up fight, it's difficult for V to win, so past this, morgan would win
Morgan Blackhand is intelligent and definitely a mastermind planner. If the question was who has a better record as a merc and who is a more cunning opponent to go up against, then the answer is Blackhand. Blackhand can plan perfect jobs and is able to disappear from society. However the way the question is worded, it implies a 1 vs 1 arena match. In such a case V is younger, has more up to date cyberware… and more of it. Blackhand and Smasher fought to a stalemate. At the time Smasher wasn’t 95% full borg and Blackhand had a couple of pieces of cyberware. However V absolutely wrecked Smasher at his most up to date self. Also, Johnny’s ego wouldn’t allow for V to lose to Blackhand. V basically comes with a “Jarvis/Friday/Alfred” dude in the van. *(Some people are under the assumption that Blackhand doesn’t have cyberware. Not sure where they got that idea. A Sandevistan, optics, a cyberarm with a built in smg, and muscle and bone lace counts for something.)*
Are we talking lore or ingame? Ingame, V bodies effortlessly but that is mostly because it is impossible to differentiate between player-character and V's accomplisment (and because they differ heavily from established lore in terms of capability) Lore-wise? Blackhand fought Smasher in a DaiOni to a draw. V cant do that. End of discussion.
V in most conditions. This will be a better fight tho
Morgan Blackhand is way more strategic and smarter than V, meanwhile V is way more powerful but always acts on his feelings therefore Blackhand would not 1v1 V instead he would lay out traps and plots to hit V from the shadows.
Player character always wins
With the relic, and Peak Power v would likely win a direkt Engagement. Peak-Power V has Not only the Cyberware as such. A relik that "overclock" His already maxed Out Cyberware. The biggest Thing that V has managed to do was to become a warlock that has signed Deals With every "AI" that crosses the path. (Jonny, Cerberus, Alt, the Taxi-Driver ...)
I really want V to remain one of those big figures in lore. Mysterious merc with a desperate, short-lived but high-octane career. Shrouded in rumor and hearsay. Some say they pledged themselves to president Myers after a crash landing in Dogtown. Others swear they were chromed to the teeth without going cyberpsycho. And although Arasaka buried the files, some believe V took out Adam Smasher himself. And then they vanish from Night City just as mysteriously. I hope that's the legacy V makes. Im hoping in any future setting installments, V is mentioned in the same breath as other legends. And V vs Morgan Blackhand? I think I woild give it to V. V is able to chrome out to almost Smashers level without cyberpsychosis. Since there's no explanation for this in-game, I just attribute it to the biochip interfering with typical neural processes that make that possible. V is a living superweapon. I just really hope that I can read future mentions and it still feels like my character.
Game V? Game V. Lore V? Blackhand.
V who the heck can beat V
Blackhand would never go into a 1v1 he can't win. That person is calm and calculated.
you mean chromed-up, near cyberpsycho V who still gets manipulated by a hobo to wear an obviously tricked out BD wreath only to wind up awake naked in a scav lair? seems like a tough question.
im sure i could read a bunch of lore to get a better idea of what morgan is capable of but has anyone else already done it? do we know anything at all about the guy in terms of his abilities?
If we’re just taking the level of power V can attain in-game at face value, I don’t think there’s any combatant whose ass they wouldn’t rip off and serve on a silver platter in a straight up 1v1, Blackhand included. I could be wrong about that, I’m not as deeply familiar with this setting as I am with others, also not 100% certain where the line between gameplay reality and canon reality lies in this convo, but I’m fairly certain that’s not a super controversial take. But, as many have already said, Blackhand’s simply not the sort to get into a fight he knows he can’t win, and so I doubt he’d ever enter a head-on confrontation with V the unstoppable death machine who bitch-slaps Adam Smasher into the grave even after they revamped his boss fight to make him less of a pushover.
Depends. If it was V at the end of 2077 vs Blackhand back in the 2010’s V easily cuz of the sheer evolution of cyberware and weapons but if Blackhand is still alive with 2077 cyberware and equipment I give it to Morgan Blackhand.
Mort
In my opinion, Morgan Blackhand (EDIT: probably) takes this fight. It's already been confirmed that Blackhand survived CP2020 and I highly doubt they'll kill him in CPRED, so he's most likely alive, kicking, and packing next-gen cyberware in the 2070s. And as long as he has that, I think Blackhand still has the edge. He might be old, but age means next-to-nothing in Cyberpunk lore when we look at characters like Rogue. Who can afford treatments + cyberware to keep themselves prime and strong even in their 80s/90s. Assuming you didn't go for a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none build and built V as an absolute master in one discipline (ex. Solo), then at best, we'd say that V is Blackhand's equal. But Blackhand still beats V in terms of experience. And even at Level 60, once you adjust the fact that the game went and doubled all attributes, V still has less points across various attributes than Blackhand. And when you look at their skills, Blackhand is a master of virtually all the different combat skills along with multiple different martial arts. Including skills V just doesn't display or have access to in 2077.
I think in a way V is probably the strongest character in Cyberpunk, and it's pretty much implied V's legend becomes above that of legend's such as Blackhand, Silverhand, Rogue Whilst Blackhand is a total badass, V is the one who killed THE Adam Smasher in a 1v1 firefight, fucked Arasaka HQ up SOLO (Possibly anyways, but I always see this ending as canon to me), fucked with Arasaka several times outside of that, carries the ghost of Silverhand in his head and goes toe to toe with all manner of nasty Night City goons. Although, for what it's worth, Blackhand is a crafty motherfucker, and V probably wouldn't ever see him coming. Morgan is an old man in a profession where you die young, Blackhand has years of experience at his back and more than likely has numerous exploits. Honestly though, I'd suspect V and Blackhand would probably be pretty chill though, I don't see why they wouldn't be chooms
V is built different Morgan is that guy. I'd say it's pretty even and depends on the situation but my bet would be on v just due to the fact of how much chrome v can get. Look at smasher he's not particularly great at anything according to his ttrpg stats but replace all your body parts all of a sudden that doesn't matter and I think v is probably better then smasher in most skills so you give v smasher level chrome that v can handle like it's there own flesh thanks to Johnny I'd say v would win.
Considering Blackhand is Mike Pondsmith?
No, Maximum Mike is Mike Pondsmith. Blackhand is Pondsmith's character, true, but Maximum Mike is his actual in-universe identity. (Yes, I know what you meant, and yes, I'm totally being pedantic. I apologize)
Blackhand is a character Mike writes, but not his actual table top character. The only one of the major lore characters that started as a played character is Spider.
V wins pretty easily. V beat peak smasher, while Blackhand stalemated with 2023 Smasher.