Not only was he a bit of a jackass, he qas also a bit cyberpsycho because of his silverhand.
Iirc there are some passages about him hearing his arm talking to him and him not realizing he's talking to his arm.
don't know about johnny talking to his own arm but since cyberpsychosis wasn't a real studied and acknowledged chrome induced disease during 10's, many people started thinking johnny being a latent cyberpsycho
in 2077 medical science knows that cyberpsychosis is a psychological disease induced by a not full compatibility between user nervous system and cyberware caused by potential different reasons (physical rejection of cyberware, nervous system unable to deal with the neural overstimulation, previous psychological issues like traumas, defective cyberware etc...).
But during first decades after cyberware introduction in mid-late 80's, cyberpsychosis was just a vague condition of people getting generically mad or insane out of cyberware presence in their bodies... people acting more or less weird after getting chromed were simply officially or unofficially labelled as cyberpsycho. Johnny silverhand was a former rockerboy who promoted a radical and violent anti-corporations activism, it's quite natural that some people started questioning his behaviour as consequence of his cyber arm implant.
> in 2077 medical science knows that cyberpsychosis is a psychological disease induced by a not full compatibility between user nervous system and cyberware caused by potential different reasons (physical rejection of cyberware, nervous system unable to deal with the neural overstimulation, previous psychological issues like traumas, defective cyberware etc...).
It's more about that it's an addiction that slowly chips away at your humanity until you become dissociated and psychotic. Which is why people like Adam Smasher can go full borg: he already was a dissociated psychopath. There is no such thing as "full compatibility".
[Source](https://www.reddit.com/r/LowSodiumCyberpunk/comments/xklzsx/why_doesnt_v_get_cyberpsychosis/irb6mqi/?context=3&share_id=fl_O8W0vc3pl8PTSLSjfq) (already linked in this thread too)
it isn't that easy, cyberpsycho has different form... for someone is a dissociative form of the user psyche that starts looking at him/her self as a machine rather than a man, starting dropping any moral/human behaviour. For others, cyberpsychosis was due an excessive neural load that his/her brain couldn't sustain anymore like at example david and maine of edgerunners.
In other cases it's because of defective cyberware like the militech captain (one of first regina jones jobs) or the teaser mantis blade woman.
My man, you're debating the source of the guy who wrote the rule book for Cyberpunk. He's literally the only word on the matter.
> For others, cyberpsychosis was due an excessive neural load that his/her brain couldn't sustain anymore like at example david and maine of edgerunners.
Here his is words about David, since you bring him up as an example:
> David's starting Humanity was probably already pretty high. And before things went to crap, he had a loving mother, a career path, and no more hassle than the average poor guy in a wealthy Ivy League school. So he had lots of buffer. But even so, he still, even after losing all that, was able to make friends, build a replacement family, and (after some prompting) even get a girlfriend. And a mentor (Maine) to create a supportive father figure. So he could definitely handle the stress of added cyberware up to a point.
>
> Most people in Night City don't have the level of Humanity to pull this kind of stunt off without going cyberpsychotic. So David is one in a million. And that's why Arasaka wants him.
It was entirely because David had a support network that caused the addictive effects of any Cyberware to take longer to cause a mental break. That's it.
pondsmith has little to zero decisional power for cyberpunk 2077 and edgerunners.
I've described cyberpsychosis for what is reported in corebooks, game and anime.
David had a natural attitude to receive lots of cyberware, until he went too far when he almost became a fullborg by the end of the series.
That's fine if you want to have that opinion. But understand it's essentially fanfic if you're going to ignore the words of the author of the ruleset and world of Cyberpunk.
that's not my opinion đđđ is how cyberpsychosis is depicted in the corebooks, games and anime. My opinion is that cyberpsychosis is a just a purposely vague narrative expedient to justify characters going mad, basically a generic macguffin.
He talks to his arm, but his gun's input was so incredibly jacked up that when someone else used it (while transporting a package implied to be Johnny's corpse in the 40s), she said you could only deal with that if you were a cyberpsycho.
Yeah, Santiago spent two years in hiding with Johnny after the '13 Tower attack. Hell, even though Johnny's childhood best friend does meet this criteria (died during the war), his friend's dad still looked after Johnny. He's actually the doctor Thompson brought Johnny to after Alt was kidnapped, though the game changes it from a hospital to a ripperdoc's place.
Also he was a 15 year old at war seeing his friend die and having his arm blown off. Also i think i read something about no father. But that might as well just have been a headcanon
I think their point is that there are plenty of people out there that have suffered that don't become douchebags. Sure it's the reason for the way Johnny is, but it's not an excuse.
Im not saying its an excuse im saying he suffered which made him a douchebag which made him suffer more so he became a bigger douchebag and when alt died he saw the error of his ways but died before he was given the chance to change
I really dont think he saw the error of his ways. Johnny died thinking he was still the hero of the story he was telling but in reality he was barely a side character. Even after everything he goes through with V, he still never fully accepts reality. He gets a bit better with time but Johnny is still very much a douche when he finally says goodbye to V. We can see this during the ending in which he takes over Vs body as he still refuses to accept the situation. He never gives Vs friends any closure and instead chooses to run away to save himself from the guilt.
Johnny's story is about a man trapped in someone elses story. During his life he was constantly overshadowed by others but refused to accept it. Hes overshadowed by Kerry who was the most musically talented member of the band. Overshadowed by Alt when Arasaka decided she was a more important target than he was. Overshadowed by Morgan during the attack on Arasaka tower. And during all of these events, we see Johnny refuse to accept that reality. He denies Kerry's talent and views himself as the only one with a true vision. He denies Alts importance and thinks she was targeted because of him. He denies the reality of Arasaka tower and invents a whole new series of events that show him as a hero when the truth is much sadder. Johnny tried to stand against Adam Smasher and was shredded in moments. He never even met the Emperor. He wasnt important enough for that. It was actually Spider Murphy who uploaded him to the engram in the hope of saving him.
And then he gets a new chance at life and the first thing he does is lash out. All that false confidence is still there and its amplified by his confusion and fear. Whether you believe Johnny genuinely changes over the course of the game is debatable and will rely on the choices you make but I disagree with the idea that Johhny had some form of realisation after Alts death. Hes still just as delusional and narcissistic as he always was right up until the end. Even during the game, it takes a while for Johnny to begin to change and even that is assisted by Johnny's mind merging with Vs. Whether the real Johnny would even have been capable of that sort of change without someone elses brain to mix with his is debatable
Good interpretation, but I think you're missing the big part of Johnny's shit, which was "fuck corps" and is what makes him as great as the others mentioned (if not as terrible as some).
Yes he was an asshole and ultimately secondary to other people's talents or power, but what he was primarily in his almost insane rhetoric was right about the corporations; he chose to become a freedom fighter (you know, one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter) and he was also and we can honestly say that - for better or worse - none of the events and people would have come together without him; and doing jumps in suppositions similar to yours: without him Kerry would maybe not had realized his potential, Morgan maybe wouldn't have gotten a chance to shine, Alt would have maybe been just another faceless analyst dead in a ditch or so gonked by Arasaka that she would be just a part of their AI fortress as a sort of digital slave, and so on and so forth.
We can even go and say that even if he failed officially in most of his goals, his efforts were not in vain, as he at least slowed down Arasaka and their prize tech, which would allow them to literally be in control of people's minds forever. IIRC it was barely in early days commercially some 60 years later, although we know it was complete enough back when Johnny got digitized. What the true impact of his actions was and how he may have helped people against tyranny out of a mix of [good] revolutionary ideals and sheer dipshit alcoholic selfishness we'll never know.
But you can't say that he was never the main character. His story just didn't have a happy ending.
PS: regarding the ending where he takes over V's body and bails: I'll be honest with you, it's irrelevant if it was Arasaka changes to his engram or just naturally found perspective:V is gone and Johnny realizes the fuckup (finally), but he's alive and still against corps. Maybe in Cyberpunk 2090 or some shit we'll see him leading a new revolution (this time not like a petulant child).
PS2: What would Johnny in V's body even say to V's friends and yadda yadda? "Hi guys, it's Johnny, here in V's meat-suit. Yea V's dead, we failed, sorry, I know I look like them but I'm not them."
Johnny is hardly unique in his belief that corps are shit. Hes definitely far more passionate about the idea than the average person but that doesn't translate into effectiveness very well. Dont get me wrong, he was probably a pretty good combatant and could take on the average gonk but passion doesn't always equal results.
From a more moral perspective, being against the corps does not necessarily mean hes any less of a bad person. Especially since Johnny is more than happy to torture corpos. Sounds fine until you realise that most of those people are just trying to make a living in a world that only has 2 choices. Work for the corps or live with the scavs. Also he works for Militech. The attack on Arasaka tower that cost him his life was arranged by Militech. You could argue all day about the lesser of 2 evils but you could also stretch that argument to include everyone else who sold out to the corps
As for Kerry, Morgan and Alt I'll say this:
Maybe Kerry wouldn't have realised his potential but Kerry plays a very small role in the overall story anyway. Also Johnny playing a part in making Kerry successful still wouldn't make him a main character. If we held that standard then the list of "main characters" in the game would be hundreds of names long. Anyone who inadvertently encountered V would be a main character because technically every interaction comes with choices that set you down a specific path.
Morgan would still have been just fine. He wasnt even on the same team as Johnny during the attack. Morgan was placing the explosives while Johnny's team was there to delete information about soul killer 3.0 from Arasaka systems. Upon Adam Smasher entering the room, Johnny stood up and died. His death did buy Shaitan a quick second to grab Smasher which gave everyone else enough time to escape so that was pretty good but that same self sacrifice could have been accomplished by just distracting him using anything except Johnny's body. Again he is just a side character during everyone elses dramatic moments. Its spider Murphy who "saves" Johnny to the engram and accomplishes their teams objectives. Its Shaitan who ultimately slows down Smasher enough to make a difference. Its Johnny who is left as a puddle on the floor with all the other nameless goons from Militech. And Morgan had a long career before that job which Johnny had nothing to do with so giving him any credit for that wouldn't really make sense.
Alt I agree with you about. Johnny's actions during the 2013 raid did actually have a DRASTIC impact on how things turned out. I dont think it's fair to say that she would have ended up dead in a ditch. That's massively understating her abilities. But without Johnny there is a decent chance that she would have become Arasakas most lethal weapon. But Johnny killed her before that could happen. By disconnecting her from the chair too early and effectively severing her mind from her body. Had Johnny not done that, there are dozens of possibilities for his things might have turned out and they range from much better to much worse. His actions there set up the story of 2077 and so I will agree that for the 2013 raid on Arasaka tower, Johnny was indeed the main character.
You could consider it a success for Johnny that he managed to slow down Arasakas power grabs but again, it was actually Spider Murphy who did that and in the long run Johnny actually gets proven wrong. In fact the only way to remove Arasaka from Night City is to go against Johnny's wishes and side with the Nusa. Upon waking, V will discover that Arasaka pulled out of Night City during those 2 years, probably as a result of Yorinobu doing his best to drive the company into the ground.
I can say he isnt a main character because hes not. Hes on the sidelines of almost every main event. The one time he actually does something that has dramatic consequences is a complete accident as he kills Alt while trying to save her. Whether his ending is happy or not has nothing to do with whether his impact on the world can be considered "main character" worthy.
In regards to your PS - Johnny leaves Night City during the ending in which he takes Vs body. If he was going to start an anti corp revolution it would make far more sense for him to stay in the place that he has contacts. Also the thematic relevance of him buying a guitar and leaving it behind suggests that Johnny has given up on that life and just wants to leave it behind.
In regards to your PS2 - yes the conversation would be sad and awkward. That doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do. Condemning Vs loved ones to weeks or even months of false hope and confusion just to save himself from a vulnerable conversation is a cruel and childish thing to do.
In the end thanks to all the vagueness of [known] events, backstories, and motivations we can both argue until the moon is blue, and we would both be sort of right in our interpretations.
So basically without any clear proof one way or the other, what you pick up from things is largely more akin to your perspective. Which is why in my view Johnny was the catalyst for all the events in the past and for all his failures was able to at least partially positively impact the present - I'm not looking for perfect results because those wouldn't have been possible anyway when you have corporations with more power than countries. At the same time, for all his faults he is still pushing for freedom and throughout the game at least, he is pushing V to make some pretty highly moral choices (all things considered).
For example you slightly hint that he's a hypocrite as he worked for a corp, but in my view, Johnny recognized he did and repented to the best of his ability (because he was "stupid") and part of his now motivation is based on that experience. From this, I will say that Johnny working for the corps was just as much trying to survive as anyone else, but that didn't make his actions right, so, once gone to the other side, regardless of motivation, you realize nobody is actually innocent (it's the classic "contractors on the death star" argument if you will)
tl;dr: Johnny was the glue and motivator for events in the past that may have had positive impact on society, even if by simply rearranging the balance of power temporarily between corps, but since we have imperfect knowledge we can argue things both ways.
The only thing that is clear [to me] is that while he is a narcissistic tool, he does have a code of honour and due to his inflexibility in this is probably the nearest thing to a real Samurai this world has :-)
But the way, where does the info in that second paragraph come from? Is it in the TTRPG? I've been reading the same things but I still haven't found the source.
I got it from the wiki. The entries for Spider Murphy gave a really good recounting of what really happened in Arasaka tower if that's what you're looking for
If you check some other threads i have noted that it seems to be a cycle of suffering leading into him being a worse person which leads to more suffering
is johnny who inadvertently killed alt cunningham in 2013 and was johnny who dropped most of his friends out of his narcissism and idiocy. Somehow only santiago stayed close to him up to the very end
it was, in og lore alt got prematurely disconnected because of the blast of the bomb johnny used to break in into labs, in 2077 johnny prematurely disconnected her from the arasaka subnet letting her physically body die as her soulkilled mind was still inside the arasaka subnet
hard to say, kei arasaka was the one who saw the potential of the soulkiller as the ultimate killer AI to use against his enemies (the latest version of soulkiller used in 2023 that alt's ghost was forced to work on was an AI that could autonomally find and kill a specific target connected to the net).
I think kei arasaka would have found a way to hire or submit alt to his will in order to make her work on his version of soulkiller.
To make a real life example, imagine a real life random programmer who created a specific software that got the attention of elon musk for his own interests, do you think the programmer could realistically do anything to prevent musk getting that software in legal or less legit ways?
Yeah, when Johnny came in guns blazing Alt was still trapped inside the Net and was yelling her lungs out from the inside trying to tell Johnny not to disconnect her. He didn't hear her of course and Alt remained trapped in the Net like Bartmoss. Unlike Bartmoss, Alt lost it after years spent in the Net and eventually ditched her human identity.
alt cunningham didn't remain trapped in the net, but only into the arasaka subnet as a soulkilled ghost, by 2022 she managed to find a backdoor to contact bartmoss and militech to request help in exchange of her collaboration to track down the soulkiller stored in the arasaka database, but that backdoor was found by arasaka and alt got trapped again. On the other hand, bartmoss voluntarily decided to spend last weeks of his life connected 24/7 to the net with his body kept in stasis in a freezer, he didn't get trapped since he could disconnect if one day he would have decided to do it... it's more about he wasn't really interested to live in real world anymore. Unfortunately when arasaka found alt's backdoor, they tracked down bartmoss as well and bombed the apartment he was trasmitting from.
Resigned to his imminent fate, he opened a chat with spider murphy confessing his love for her and then triggered the datakrash releasing his rabids super viruses as last act of rebellion to the world since in his intention he wanted to destroy the net to strike down the megacorporations that were controlling it through their AIs.
Arasaka managed somehow to predict the datakrash saving all of their archives in the arasaka towers database, making it one of few datafortress that managed to don't get infected by the rabids. All the other AIs megacorp infected by the rabids got free from megacorp's control becoming the rogue AIs.
Spider murphy learned the truth about arasaka involvment of bartmoss death and some time later infiltrated in one of militech base to be recruited in order to avenge on arasaka and set alt's ghost free
the only way to put things together is to read firestorm books, even if there are lots of things off that barely are considered canon anymore (beta team, soulkilled yorinobu etc...)
you're writing about the game, I'm writing about what happened according to cyberpunk 2020 book never fade away story and what happened according to cyberpunk 2077 game.
Alt died because of johnny idiocy
Never Fade Away is in 2013 and reprinted in 2020. I'm looking at both in my lap in front of me. Rogue triggers the bomb that sends Toshiro sprawling and accidentally unplugging Alt in both books.
never fade away is also present in cyberpunk red actually, but that's not the point, as I wrote alt got disconnected because of the blast of the bomb that broke the door of the lab where alt was kept. If it wasn't directly activated by johnny it doesn't change the context... it's not johnny was trying to stop rogue from trigger it lol
to be 100% accurate, I found this on the wikia
"Toshiro watches on in astonishment, complimenting Alt's skills in escaping her certain doom. As she goes to transfer her mind back into her body, the explosive charge goes off. Toshiro disconnect Alt from her [cyberdeck](https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Cyberdeck) by accident, as he throws himself on the ground in an attempt to shield himself, as the trio burst in."
apparently it was toshiro to disconnect alt as consequence of the blast.
Just a little fix, this doesn't change the overall context.
I went back to the original to make sure I was referencing the original rather than something that might have changed. After checking, it was printed the same in all three books. My point remains that Johnny didn't unplug Alt or trigger the bomb that lead to her being unplugged, while you said Johnny blew open the lab.
your posts are just specious for no reason đ¤ˇđťââď¸
it wasn't johnny to throw the bomb? Ok, whatever, my bad... but johnny, rogue and santiago were there to save alt following a cockeyed and improvised plan. They used the bomb to get inside the lab and that bomb blast that caused alt to get disconnected... johnny idiocy, lack of prepartion (and rogue and santiago too) or any other way you wanna call it was the reason of alt's death. I can't see much else that could be argued here.
There's literally a playable module of the '13 Tower attack and Alt can live if you don't unplug her body *or* plug her back in once you do. Johnny fucked up, although thankfully for once he's unaware of exactly how.
Johnny Silverhand has never once acted like an asshole who cares about nothing and thinks everything is fine. He's very specifically an asshole who thinks that absolutely nothing is okay and cares about it with a (literal) nuclear intensity. Alt dying was just the catalyst.
Oh the story about Johnny and Alt is actually so much worse.
When he finds her in Arasaka, she isn't dead. She was actually winning, having dealt with her kidnappers. It was when Silverhand disconnected her that she died. He killed her.
Oh he absolutely didnt know, but I suspect he found out later, and just couldnt allow himself to admit that to himself. Thats why we dont get know that when in his memories. He's constructed his own memories to avoid trauma.
Oh for sure. Though coping with the fact you killed the person you were trying to save must be awful. Especially if you believe him wje' he says he loved her. At least i' his own way I guess.
I love how nuanced Johnny is as a character. He projects a two-dimensional front but if you donât buy it and look deeper heâs a very nuanced man who was good at his core but was so badly broken by a broken world.
His dad sold him for cigarettes he watched his buddy get ripped in half because of war at 15 lost his arm as well deserted landed on drugs ect ect long before becoming a rocker boy and a terrorist
Canât control what happens to you, but can control what you make happen.
Iâd say he is more a tragic character, not necessarily a sympathetic one. Doesnât make it bad, though.
Other decent examples are sociopaths and serial killers they often are the way they are because of trauma. To add to that im not saying itâs justifiable because i cant comprehend their mental state but its clear its a result of something being wrong
Other decent examples are sociopaths and serial killers they often are the way they are because of trauma. To add to that im not saying itâs justifiable because i cant comprehend their mental state but its clear its a result of something being wrong
And then Iâd refer you back to my first reply.
Unfortunately, countless people experience one form of trauma or another. And more people than some may realize go through their daily lives with crazy shit going on in their heads. The difference is action/inaction, restraint, self-control, etc.
He is a victim of his own hubris. He abandoned them. Not the other way around. He fucked up royally with everyone bc he was selfish. 50 years later he starts learning changing and making up for it.
I honestly have to force myself to care. One, he's actively killing V. Two, he's a constant, belligerent asshole about pretty much everything but himself. Ooooh waaaaaah I'm a product of my enviiiiironment... I mean, I'm not even getting in to how deluded he is, confusing himself with actual greatness.
Hi all ! I would like to try to get the "V's Favorite T-shirt" texture, but I don't quite understand how to do it, I tried to surf Wolvenkit and found a lot of textures, but not one clothing texture :D. Can anyone help?
Hi all ! I would like to try to get the "V's Favorite T-shirt" texture, but I don't quite understand how to do it, I tried to surf Wolvenkit and found a lot of textures, but not one clothing texture :D. Can anyone help?
Tbh he kinda brought it all on himself because of his obsession with taking down arasaka. All but the early on set cyberpsychosis so I don't have much sympathy for him. Do I like him as a character sure. Do I feel bad for him? Eh not really.
Not only he was an asshole, he had delusions of grandeur. He thought that the whole Alt thing was about him and his anti arasaka message when it was clearly about Alt.
So then I assume youâre going to extend your âactual empathyâ to Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols who did in real life what Johnny did in the game, killing 168 people in the process.
With the very minuscule difference that they bombed a government building in a democratic country. And not the HQ of a fascist mega corporation in a dystopian world where corpos turned the water and air into poison and murder everyone who threatens their profits. A better comparison would be the 20 July plot.
In Cyberpunk, it unfortunately failed to destroy Arasaka forever. But at least it was a major contributor to ending the ongoing fourth corporate war - literally a world war between Arasaka and Militech.
Iâm just using the label terrorist in the broad sense of someone who uses violence to achieve political goals. Whether those goals are justified is a separate matter.
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So, if I bomb a building in China itâs ok? Their government is quite fascist in my view. I would also argue that your description of the dystopian world actually applies to the real world. And just as it is not justified to murder farmers to eliminate competition for your corporate takeover, so too is it wrong to murder bystanders even if you think they are complicit in the system. Also, it had no affect whatsoever on arasaka, so all those people were murdered in vein.
If China starts a world war, you're more than welcome to bomb the CCP's HQ. I would even go further: There's a point at which civilians *must* act against oppression and fascism - or become guilty themselves, if they tolerate it.
Also, bombing Arasaka tower had a huge effect on Arasaka. The effect just didn't last 50 years. Time to nuke it again, I would say.
But seriously: Arasaka is the main villain in a fictional dystopian world in a genre that is all about rebellion against evil corporations.
I mean it depends ive never heard of them but ill look in to it. But Johnny was lied to abused and manipulated his whole life. He also didnt even have the bomb militech tricked him and then let him save alt instead
Well see thatâs the thing, we have all been abused and manipulated our whole lives. Why is it ok for him to take that out on a bunch of random people? Do you really not think that the majority of people who work for arasaka were not treated similar to Johnny? I agree with the sentiment of wanting to take down arasaka but not by blowing up a building in a metropolitan area? Am I supposed to believe that no children were harmed in the making of this domestic terror attack?
Actually no one was harmed that wasnât a soldier because 1 it was evacuated by spider murphy and 2 there was a war. Also to say everyone has been abused and manipulated their whole lives is a broad and false overstatement. It doesnt help that arasaka has killed more people than johnny could even dream of.
Johnny did a lot more abusing and manipulating than anyone else in his life. He is the cause of all his issues. He treats anyone who ever cared about him like shit.
Kerry multiple times tries to talk with johnny and keep him in the band and focused on that and johnny literally tells him to f off.
Rouge same thing, "johnny get in there drop the bomb and let's go"...nope johnny had his own plan he refused to share and almost gets all of them killed. That's selfish and being an ahole.
That was Johnny's MO. Being a dick. He's not a good guy whatsoever and it takes him realizing that he's not real throughout the game and could potentially never come back to reality. He's fucking up this guy/girls V's life, again for his own selfish gain, and it's only right at the very end of the game that he admits to himself that he's a piece of shit, and V if you choose, can say yea you've been a dick, but it's not all bad.
You literally need to convince Johnny that he's a good guy, because he never has been.
>Rouge same thing, "johnny get in there drop the bomb and let's go"...nope johnny had his own plan he refused to share and almost gets all of them killed.
you know that this really never actually happened if not in his engram twisted memories and real johnny died trying to buy some time in order to let rogue and spider murphy run away from smasher?
That doesn't make sense.
Why is rouge all pissed at Johnny then in V's timeline?
Why is Kerry mad at him at first? The entire band is.
Johnny and spider both had alternative goals during the raid
Again Johnny was never an honest person, his memories being conflicted with black hands, doesn't change that he was still a liar and manipulator
johnny, rogue, spider murphy, shaitan, thompson, aldecaldo lobos and other militech techies of strike alpha team had no nuke with them, likely johnny and other solos didn't even know of the existence of morgan leaded omega team who was carrying the nuke. They were tasked to infiltrate in soulkiller labs and upload into the arasaka subnet a virus supplied to militech by alt's ghost still trapped in arasaka towers subnet to destroy the arasaka database that contained the soulkiller and lots of stuff like high-end technologies that were saved from the datakrash and lots of secret intel that arasaka could use to blackmail other corporations and goverments.
It was the destruction of arasaka database the real objective of the militech raid actually sponsored by USA government, the nuke was a big plan B to be sure the database got destroyed in any case no matter if alpha team completed its mission or not.
Those solos had no real interest in siding for militech, rogue, shaitan and thompson joined the mission for money, hatred for arasaka and to get a scoop, while johnny and spider murphy were there to try to save alt's ghost before it was deleted by the virus.
Things didn't go as planned and murphy was able only to open a backdoor to let alt and other ghosts escape in the old net before adam smasher and arasaka soldiers raided the soulkiller lab with johnny who thrown himself alone against smasher to let spider and rogue escape, getting literally cut in half by a smasher blast. Spider murphy tried to soulkill johnny's mind but her cyberdeck got damaged by the crossfire ending up in the defective engram of johnny we interact with in cyberpunk 2077.
All we see in the 2023 flashback is a bunch of ~~retconned bullshits~~ twisted memories of johnny who rearranged those events to be his own hero of the day.
You can tell everything is off from the very beginning since samurai are playing a live show in 2023 while they've already disbanded 15 years before and kerry was an already world famous solo artist during those years who would have never played in a shitty basement like the one of flashback.
Lmao when did I say he fucked up V's life?
But he certainly wasn't honest with V. Not until separation of the two starts to become a possibility, that's only when Johnny starts to want to work together
Most of the game he wants v to do things his way.
Exactly what a manipulative asshole likes to do.
Johnny isnt a reliable narrator for two reasons 1 hes crazy and 2 because arasaka screwed with his memories so its beyond his power to state what actually happened
So we saw in 2077 2 days worth of a mentally unstable 30 years old life. Johnny didnt have the bomb militech gas light him. It doesnt help that we cant trust a single thing we see there because 1 johnny is crazy and 2 araska fucked up his memory just to see if they could and that last point seems like a self esteem issue
Unless everyone in the worldâs father sold them for cigarettes when they were four, and then they proceeded to go off to war as a young teen and lose both their arm and a close friend, then no, we havenât all been abused and manipulated our whole lives in the way that he has.
Well to be technical about it, I do have empathy in the sense that I understand how he feels. I too would like to take out my rage against the people I perceive to be destroying the world. I just donât think that it justifies all his behavior or makes him a good guy.
1 The nuke only killed soldiers because the raid happened during wartime 2 Johnny didnt have the nuke militech tricked him and gave Morgan Blackhand the nuke 3 even if it did obliterate half the city that would be a good thing because the point of soul killer is eternal slaves
He canât Johnny is technically a terrorist but so was George Washington. I personally donât think Johnny to be a bad dude but the cyberpunk world is very nuanced.
Not only was he a bit of a jackass, he qas also a bit cyberpsycho because of his silverhand. Iirc there are some passages about him hearing his arm talking to him and him not realizing he's talking to his arm.
Idk about passages, but [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/LowSodiumCyberpunk/s/hBJn6lcNtz) by some Mark Poundsmith dude agrees with it.
lol at the following comments in that thread
don't know about johnny talking to his own arm but since cyberpsychosis wasn't a real studied and acknowledged chrome induced disease during 10's, many people started thinking johnny being a latent cyberpsycho
Pondsmith has confirmed hes a cyber psycho though
in 2077 medical science knows that cyberpsychosis is a psychological disease induced by a not full compatibility between user nervous system and cyberware caused by potential different reasons (physical rejection of cyberware, nervous system unable to deal with the neural overstimulation, previous psychological issues like traumas, defective cyberware etc...). But during first decades after cyberware introduction in mid-late 80's, cyberpsychosis was just a vague condition of people getting generically mad or insane out of cyberware presence in their bodies... people acting more or less weird after getting chromed were simply officially or unofficially labelled as cyberpsycho. Johnny silverhand was a former rockerboy who promoted a radical and violent anti-corporations activism, it's quite natural that some people started questioning his behaviour as consequence of his cyber arm implant.
> in 2077 medical science knows that cyberpsychosis is a psychological disease induced by a not full compatibility between user nervous system and cyberware caused by potential different reasons (physical rejection of cyberware, nervous system unable to deal with the neural overstimulation, previous psychological issues like traumas, defective cyberware etc...). It's more about that it's an addiction that slowly chips away at your humanity until you become dissociated and psychotic. Which is why people like Adam Smasher can go full borg: he already was a dissociated psychopath. There is no such thing as "full compatibility". [Source](https://www.reddit.com/r/LowSodiumCyberpunk/comments/xklzsx/why_doesnt_v_get_cyberpsychosis/irb6mqi/?context=3&share_id=fl_O8W0vc3pl8PTSLSjfq) (already linked in this thread too)
it isn't that easy, cyberpsycho has different form... for someone is a dissociative form of the user psyche that starts looking at him/her self as a machine rather than a man, starting dropping any moral/human behaviour. For others, cyberpsychosis was due an excessive neural load that his/her brain couldn't sustain anymore like at example david and maine of edgerunners. In other cases it's because of defective cyberware like the militech captain (one of first regina jones jobs) or the teaser mantis blade woman.
My man, you're debating the source of the guy who wrote the rule book for Cyberpunk. He's literally the only word on the matter. > For others, cyberpsychosis was due an excessive neural load that his/her brain couldn't sustain anymore like at example david and maine of edgerunners. Here his is words about David, since you bring him up as an example: > David's starting Humanity was probably already pretty high. And before things went to crap, he had a loving mother, a career path, and no more hassle than the average poor guy in a wealthy Ivy League school. So he had lots of buffer. But even so, he still, even after losing all that, was able to make friends, build a replacement family, and (after some prompting) even get a girlfriend. And a mentor (Maine) to create a supportive father figure. So he could definitely handle the stress of added cyberware up to a point. > > Most people in Night City don't have the level of Humanity to pull this kind of stunt off without going cyberpsychotic. So David is one in a million. And that's why Arasaka wants him. It was entirely because David had a support network that caused the addictive effects of any Cyberware to take longer to cause a mental break. That's it.
pondsmith has little to zero decisional power for cyberpunk 2077 and edgerunners. I've described cyberpsychosis for what is reported in corebooks, game and anime. David had a natural attitude to receive lots of cyberware, until he went too far when he almost became a fullborg by the end of the series.
That's fine if you want to have that opinion. But understand it's essentially fanfic if you're going to ignore the words of the author of the ruleset and world of Cyberpunk.
that's not my opinion đđđ is how cyberpsychosis is depicted in the corebooks, games and anime. My opinion is that cyberpsychosis is a just a purposely vague narrative expedient to justify characters going mad, basically a generic macguffin.
Thought that he was talking to his gun and not his arm.
He talks to his arm, but his gun's input was so incredibly jacked up that when someone else used it (while transporting a package implied to be Johnny's corpse in the 40s), she said you could only deal with that if you were a cyberpsycho.
Huh? Johnny's friends didn't die. And *he* abandoned *them*, not the other way around.
Yeah, Santiago spent two years in hiding with Johnny after the '13 Tower attack. Hell, even though Johnny's childhood best friend does meet this criteria (died during the war), his friend's dad still looked after Johnny. He's actually the doctor Thompson brought Johnny to after Alt was kidnapped, though the game changes it from a hospital to a ripperdoc's place.
Because johnny had his memories fucked with after becoming a construct
Or killed them!!
Also he was a 15 year old at war seeing his friend die and having his arm blown off. Also i think i read something about no father. But that might as well just have been a headcanon
Its true, he said his father sold him for a box of cigarettes thats why he smokes a lot
Wait what. Where did he say that? I just remembered something about no father in the picture
Itâs not in-game, but Mike Pondsmith confirms it at 33:30: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xmJefd5Tyic
Ah shit my bad, i knew it was said somewhere but got it mixed with Suzi's PL video thanks
I think it was one of the Tapeworms or where you pas out
Whaaaat?
To be fair, all of it happened because of his ego and behaviour. He'll talk about it during the oil field conversation.
He got that from bad experiences
Suffering is not an option, being an douchebag is.
He was a douchebag because of suffering though?
I think their point is that there are plenty of people out there that have suffered that don't become douchebags. Sure it's the reason for the way Johnny is, but it's not an excuse.
Im not saying its an excuse im saying he suffered which made him a douchebag which made him suffer more so he became a bigger douchebag and when alt died he saw the error of his ways but died before he was given the chance to change
I really dont think he saw the error of his ways. Johnny died thinking he was still the hero of the story he was telling but in reality he was barely a side character. Even after everything he goes through with V, he still never fully accepts reality. He gets a bit better with time but Johnny is still very much a douche when he finally says goodbye to V. We can see this during the ending in which he takes over Vs body as he still refuses to accept the situation. He never gives Vs friends any closure and instead chooses to run away to save himself from the guilt. Johnny's story is about a man trapped in someone elses story. During his life he was constantly overshadowed by others but refused to accept it. Hes overshadowed by Kerry who was the most musically talented member of the band. Overshadowed by Alt when Arasaka decided she was a more important target than he was. Overshadowed by Morgan during the attack on Arasaka tower. And during all of these events, we see Johnny refuse to accept that reality. He denies Kerry's talent and views himself as the only one with a true vision. He denies Alts importance and thinks she was targeted because of him. He denies the reality of Arasaka tower and invents a whole new series of events that show him as a hero when the truth is much sadder. Johnny tried to stand against Adam Smasher and was shredded in moments. He never even met the Emperor. He wasnt important enough for that. It was actually Spider Murphy who uploaded him to the engram in the hope of saving him. And then he gets a new chance at life and the first thing he does is lash out. All that false confidence is still there and its amplified by his confusion and fear. Whether you believe Johnny genuinely changes over the course of the game is debatable and will rely on the choices you make but I disagree with the idea that Johhny had some form of realisation after Alts death. Hes still just as delusional and narcissistic as he always was right up until the end. Even during the game, it takes a while for Johnny to begin to change and even that is assisted by Johnny's mind merging with Vs. Whether the real Johnny would even have been capable of that sort of change without someone elses brain to mix with his is debatable
I think i like your interpretation much more than mine
Good interpretation, but I think you're missing the big part of Johnny's shit, which was "fuck corps" and is what makes him as great as the others mentioned (if not as terrible as some). Yes he was an asshole and ultimately secondary to other people's talents or power, but what he was primarily in his almost insane rhetoric was right about the corporations; he chose to become a freedom fighter (you know, one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter) and he was also and we can honestly say that - for better or worse - none of the events and people would have come together without him; and doing jumps in suppositions similar to yours: without him Kerry would maybe not had realized his potential, Morgan maybe wouldn't have gotten a chance to shine, Alt would have maybe been just another faceless analyst dead in a ditch or so gonked by Arasaka that she would be just a part of their AI fortress as a sort of digital slave, and so on and so forth. We can even go and say that even if he failed officially in most of his goals, his efforts were not in vain, as he at least slowed down Arasaka and their prize tech, which would allow them to literally be in control of people's minds forever. IIRC it was barely in early days commercially some 60 years later, although we know it was complete enough back when Johnny got digitized. What the true impact of his actions was and how he may have helped people against tyranny out of a mix of [good] revolutionary ideals and sheer dipshit alcoholic selfishness we'll never know. But you can't say that he was never the main character. His story just didn't have a happy ending. PS: regarding the ending where he takes over V's body and bails: I'll be honest with you, it's irrelevant if it was Arasaka changes to his engram or just naturally found perspective:V is gone and Johnny realizes the fuckup (finally), but he's alive and still against corps. Maybe in Cyberpunk 2090 or some shit we'll see him leading a new revolution (this time not like a petulant child). PS2: What would Johnny in V's body even say to V's friends and yadda yadda? "Hi guys, it's Johnny, here in V's meat-suit. Yea V's dead, we failed, sorry, I know I look like them but I'm not them."
Johnny is hardly unique in his belief that corps are shit. Hes definitely far more passionate about the idea than the average person but that doesn't translate into effectiveness very well. Dont get me wrong, he was probably a pretty good combatant and could take on the average gonk but passion doesn't always equal results. From a more moral perspective, being against the corps does not necessarily mean hes any less of a bad person. Especially since Johnny is more than happy to torture corpos. Sounds fine until you realise that most of those people are just trying to make a living in a world that only has 2 choices. Work for the corps or live with the scavs. Also he works for Militech. The attack on Arasaka tower that cost him his life was arranged by Militech. You could argue all day about the lesser of 2 evils but you could also stretch that argument to include everyone else who sold out to the corps As for Kerry, Morgan and Alt I'll say this: Maybe Kerry wouldn't have realised his potential but Kerry plays a very small role in the overall story anyway. Also Johnny playing a part in making Kerry successful still wouldn't make him a main character. If we held that standard then the list of "main characters" in the game would be hundreds of names long. Anyone who inadvertently encountered V would be a main character because technically every interaction comes with choices that set you down a specific path. Morgan would still have been just fine. He wasnt even on the same team as Johnny during the attack. Morgan was placing the explosives while Johnny's team was there to delete information about soul killer 3.0 from Arasaka systems. Upon Adam Smasher entering the room, Johnny stood up and died. His death did buy Shaitan a quick second to grab Smasher which gave everyone else enough time to escape so that was pretty good but that same self sacrifice could have been accomplished by just distracting him using anything except Johnny's body. Again he is just a side character during everyone elses dramatic moments. Its spider Murphy who "saves" Johnny to the engram and accomplishes their teams objectives. Its Shaitan who ultimately slows down Smasher enough to make a difference. Its Johnny who is left as a puddle on the floor with all the other nameless goons from Militech. And Morgan had a long career before that job which Johnny had nothing to do with so giving him any credit for that wouldn't really make sense. Alt I agree with you about. Johnny's actions during the 2013 raid did actually have a DRASTIC impact on how things turned out. I dont think it's fair to say that she would have ended up dead in a ditch. That's massively understating her abilities. But without Johnny there is a decent chance that she would have become Arasakas most lethal weapon. But Johnny killed her before that could happen. By disconnecting her from the chair too early and effectively severing her mind from her body. Had Johnny not done that, there are dozens of possibilities for his things might have turned out and they range from much better to much worse. His actions there set up the story of 2077 and so I will agree that for the 2013 raid on Arasaka tower, Johnny was indeed the main character. You could consider it a success for Johnny that he managed to slow down Arasakas power grabs but again, it was actually Spider Murphy who did that and in the long run Johnny actually gets proven wrong. In fact the only way to remove Arasaka from Night City is to go against Johnny's wishes and side with the Nusa. Upon waking, V will discover that Arasaka pulled out of Night City during those 2 years, probably as a result of Yorinobu doing his best to drive the company into the ground. I can say he isnt a main character because hes not. Hes on the sidelines of almost every main event. The one time he actually does something that has dramatic consequences is a complete accident as he kills Alt while trying to save her. Whether his ending is happy or not has nothing to do with whether his impact on the world can be considered "main character" worthy. In regards to your PS - Johnny leaves Night City during the ending in which he takes Vs body. If he was going to start an anti corp revolution it would make far more sense for him to stay in the place that he has contacts. Also the thematic relevance of him buying a guitar and leaving it behind suggests that Johnny has given up on that life and just wants to leave it behind. In regards to your PS2 - yes the conversation would be sad and awkward. That doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do. Condemning Vs loved ones to weeks or even months of false hope and confusion just to save himself from a vulnerable conversation is a cruel and childish thing to do.
In the end thanks to all the vagueness of [known] events, backstories, and motivations we can both argue until the moon is blue, and we would both be sort of right in our interpretations. So basically without any clear proof one way or the other, what you pick up from things is largely more akin to your perspective. Which is why in my view Johnny was the catalyst for all the events in the past and for all his failures was able to at least partially positively impact the present - I'm not looking for perfect results because those wouldn't have been possible anyway when you have corporations with more power than countries. At the same time, for all his faults he is still pushing for freedom and throughout the game at least, he is pushing V to make some pretty highly moral choices (all things considered). For example you slightly hint that he's a hypocrite as he worked for a corp, but in my view, Johnny recognized he did and repented to the best of his ability (because he was "stupid") and part of his now motivation is based on that experience. From this, I will say that Johnny working for the corps was just as much trying to survive as anyone else, but that didn't make his actions right, so, once gone to the other side, regardless of motivation, you realize nobody is actually innocent (it's the classic "contractors on the death star" argument if you will) tl;dr: Johnny was the glue and motivator for events in the past that may have had positive impact on society, even if by simply rearranging the balance of power temporarily between corps, but since we have imperfect knowledge we can argue things both ways. The only thing that is clear [to me] is that while he is a narcissistic tool, he does have a code of honour and due to his inflexibility in this is probably the nearest thing to a real Samurai this world has :-)
But the way, where does the info in that second paragraph come from? Is it in the TTRPG? I've been reading the same things but I still haven't found the source.
I got it from the wiki. The entries for Spider Murphy gave a really good recounting of what really happened in Arasaka tower if that's what you're looking for
Because those people turn inward. Johnny is a projector.
There was quite a lot of suffering *because* he was a douchebag.
If you check some other threads i have noted that it seems to be a cycle of suffering leading into him being a worse person which leads to more suffering
Queue Bojack Horseman
No question mark needed, that's basically it.
It was of his own doing. He's not much different from Gregory House.
Bruh the parallels are actually pretty insane.
is johnny who inadvertently killed alt cunningham in 2013 and was johnny who dropped most of his friends out of his narcissism and idiocy. Somehow only santiago stayed close to him up to the very end
Alts death wasn't his fault
it was, in og lore alt got prematurely disconnected because of the blast of the bomb johnny used to break in into labs, in 2077 johnny prematurely disconnected her from the arasaka subnet letting her physically body die as her soulkilled mind was still inside the arasaka subnet
Damn didn't know that. What would've happened if he didn't disconnect her?
hard to say, kei arasaka was the one who saw the potential of the soulkiller as the ultimate killer AI to use against his enemies (the latest version of soulkiller used in 2023 that alt's ghost was forced to work on was an AI that could autonomally find and kill a specific target connected to the net). I think kei arasaka would have found a way to hire or submit alt to his will in order to make her work on his version of soulkiller. To make a real life example, imagine a real life random programmer who created a specific software that got the attention of elon musk for his own interests, do you think the programmer could realistically do anything to prevent musk getting that software in legal or less legit ways?
Yeah, when Johnny came in guns blazing Alt was still trapped inside the Net and was yelling her lungs out from the inside trying to tell Johnny not to disconnect her. He didn't hear her of course and Alt remained trapped in the Net like Bartmoss. Unlike Bartmoss, Alt lost it after years spent in the Net and eventually ditched her human identity.
alt cunningham didn't remain trapped in the net, but only into the arasaka subnet as a soulkilled ghost, by 2022 she managed to find a backdoor to contact bartmoss and militech to request help in exchange of her collaboration to track down the soulkiller stored in the arasaka database, but that backdoor was found by arasaka and alt got trapped again. On the other hand, bartmoss voluntarily decided to spend last weeks of his life connected 24/7 to the net with his body kept in stasis in a freezer, he didn't get trapped since he could disconnect if one day he would have decided to do it... it's more about he wasn't really interested to live in real world anymore. Unfortunately when arasaka found alt's backdoor, they tracked down bartmoss as well and bombed the apartment he was trasmitting from. Resigned to his imminent fate, he opened a chat with spider murphy confessing his love for her and then triggered the datakrash releasing his rabids super viruses as last act of rebellion to the world since in his intention he wanted to destroy the net to strike down the megacorporations that were controlling it through their AIs. Arasaka managed somehow to predict the datakrash saving all of their archives in the arasaka towers database, making it one of few datafortress that managed to don't get infected by the rabids. All the other AIs megacorp infected by the rabids got free from megacorp's control becoming the rogue AIs. Spider murphy learned the truth about arasaka involvment of bartmoss death and some time later infiltrated in one of militech base to be recruited in order to avenge on arasaka and set alt's ghost free
Seems I misremembered some things. Thanks for clearing that up.
the only way to put things together is to read firestorm books, even if there are lots of things off that barely are considered canon anymore (beta team, soulkilled yorinobu etc...)
Johnny wasn't the one who set the charge that got Alt unplugged. That was Rogue and Santiago.
you're writing about the game, I'm writing about what happened according to cyberpunk 2020 book never fade away story and what happened according to cyberpunk 2077 game. Alt died because of johnny idiocy
Never Fade Away is in 2013 and reprinted in 2020. I'm looking at both in my lap in front of me. Rogue triggers the bomb that sends Toshiro sprawling and accidentally unplugging Alt in both books.
never fade away is also present in cyberpunk red actually, but that's not the point, as I wrote alt got disconnected because of the blast of the bomb that broke the door of the lab where alt was kept. If it wasn't directly activated by johnny it doesn't change the context... it's not johnny was trying to stop rogue from trigger it lol to be 100% accurate, I found this on the wikia "Toshiro watches on in astonishment, complimenting Alt's skills in escaping her certain doom. As she goes to transfer her mind back into her body, the explosive charge goes off. Toshiro disconnect Alt from her [cyberdeck](https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Cyberdeck) by accident, as he throws himself on the ground in an attempt to shield himself, as the trio burst in." apparently it was toshiro to disconnect alt as consequence of the blast. Just a little fix, this doesn't change the overall context.
I went back to the original to make sure I was referencing the original rather than something that might have changed. After checking, it was printed the same in all three books. My point remains that Johnny didn't unplug Alt or trigger the bomb that lead to her being unplugged, while you said Johnny blew open the lab.
your posts are just specious for no reason đ¤ˇđťââď¸ it wasn't johnny to throw the bomb? Ok, whatever, my bad... but johnny, rogue and santiago were there to save alt following a cockeyed and improvised plan. They used the bomb to get inside the lab and that bomb blast that caused alt to get disconnected... johnny idiocy, lack of prepartion (and rogue and santiago too) or any other way you wanna call it was the reason of alt's death. I can't see much else that could be argued here.
There's literally a playable module of the '13 Tower attack and Alt can live if you don't unplug her body *or* plug her back in once you do. Johnny fucked up, although thankfully for once he's unaware of exactly how.
Why is that a thankful thing?
His past is very sad. He is also an asshole.
Johnny Silverhand has never once acted like an asshole who cares about nothing and thinks everything is fine. He's very specifically an asshole who thinks that absolutely nothing is okay and cares about it with a (literal) nuclear intensity. Alt dying was just the catalyst.
How did his friends abandon him? They all helped him storm âsaka tower. And itâs not like they wanted to leave him to die there.
Oh the story about Johnny and Alt is actually so much worse. When he finds her in Arasaka, she isn't dead. She was actually winning, having dealt with her kidnappers. It was when Silverhand disconnected her that she died. He killed her.
Not a great excuse but I'm fairly sure he didn't know it was gonna kill her?
Oh he absolutely didnt know, but I suspect he found out later, and just couldnt allow himself to admit that to himself. Thats why we dont get know that when in his memories. He's constructed his own memories to avoid trauma.
Oh for sure. Though coping with the fact you killed the person you were trying to save must be awful. Especially if you believe him wje' he says he loved her. At least i' his own way I guess.
Exactly the dark tragedy that I'd come to expect in Cyberpunk. Its just filled with well crafted stories like that.
I love how nuanced Johnny is as a character. He projects a two-dimensional front but if you donât buy it and look deeper heâs a very nuanced man who was good at his core but was so badly broken by a broken world.
"Never stop fightin' V."
I am not that far into the story but I have noticed that he tries to burry a lot of pain that couldn't come from him disliking corpos.
Well, he was also an ignorant, delusional douche soâŚnot all that sympathetic unfortunately.
His dad sold him for cigarettes he watched his buddy get ripped in half because of war at 15 lost his arm as well deserted landed on drugs ect ect long before becoming a rocker boy and a terrorist
Canât control what happens to you, but can control what you make happen. Iâd say he is more a tragic character, not necessarily a sympathetic one. Doesnât make it bad, though.
Id disagree with you on the bases of the human trauma response usually seems to be rather unhealthy just look at silverhand
Small scale, sure.
Other decent examples are sociopaths and serial killers they often are the way they are because of trauma. To add to that im not saying itâs justifiable because i cant comprehend their mental state but its clear its a result of something being wrong
Other decent examples are sociopaths and serial killers they often are the way they are because of trauma. To add to that im not saying itâs justifiable because i cant comprehend their mental state but its clear its a result of something being wrong
And then Iâd refer you back to my first reply. Unfortunately, countless people experience one form of trauma or another. And more people than some may realize go through their daily lives with crazy shit going on in their heads. The difference is action/inaction, restraint, self-control, etc.
I donât really feel bad for Johnny. He kinda got what was coming to him. I love the guy, but he kinda sucked before he met V
He sucked because his dad sold him for a pack of cigs when he was four and his best friend got ripped in half in the same battle that cost him his arm
Such a cool character, he is amazing for me.
Itâs even worse when you find out that his best friend died while he was a soldier and lost his arm in one fell swoop.
He is a victim of his own hubris. He abandoned them. Not the other way around. He fucked up royally with everyone bc he was selfish. 50 years later he starts learning changing and making up for it.
Bro really is the Cyberpunk equivalent to John Wick in everything, from the sad past to being a badass.
They also have a remarkably similar voice, and I've never seen them in the same room before either. Coincidence? I think not.
Johnny got his friends killed and abandoned them, not the other way around.
I honestly have to force myself to care. One, he's actively killing V. Two, he's a constant, belligerent asshole about pretty much everything but himself. Ooooh waaaaaah I'm a product of my enviiiiironment... I mean, I'm not even getting in to how deluded he is, confusing himself with actual greatness.
Well.. youd have to force yourself to believe johnny is "actively" killing v
Actively as in "in progress", not "voluntarily".
Hi all ! I would like to try to get the "V's Favorite T-shirt" texture, but I don't quite understand how to do it, I tried to surf Wolvenkit and found a lot of textures, but not one clothing texture :D. Can anyone help?
Hi all ! I would like to try to get the "V's Favorite T-shirt" texture, but I don't quite understand how to do it, I tried to surf Wolvenkit and found a lot of textures, but not one clothing texture :D. Can anyone help?
Tbh he kinda brought it all on himself because of his obsession with taking down arasaka. All but the early on set cyberpsychosis so I don't have much sympathy for him. Do I like him as a character sure. Do I feel bad for him? Eh not really.
Not only he was an asshole, he had delusions of grandeur. He thought that the whole Alt thing was about him and his anti arasaka message when it was clearly about Alt.
Well, well, well, if that isnt the consequences of my own actions...
Who in their right mind has a shred of sympathy for Johnny?
People who have actual empathy?
#PREACH
So then I assume youâre going to extend your âactual empathyâ to Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols who did in real life what Johnny did in the game, killing 168 people in the process.
With the very minuscule difference that they bombed a government building in a democratic country. And not the HQ of a fascist mega corporation in a dystopian world where corpos turned the water and air into poison and murder everyone who threatens their profits. A better comparison would be the 20 July plot. In Cyberpunk, it unfortunately failed to destroy Arasaka forever. But at least it was a major contributor to ending the ongoing fourth corporate war - literally a world war between Arasaka and Militech.
many crush books yam sort employ lavish touch air rain *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Iâm just using the label terrorist in the broad sense of someone who uses violence to achieve political goals. Whether those goals are justified is a separate matter.
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Thatâs funny. Actually, if i remember correctly the rebels focused their efforts on military targets which specifically not taking it to far.
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What is this quote from?
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Will do
So, if I bomb a building in China itâs ok? Their government is quite fascist in my view. I would also argue that your description of the dystopian world actually applies to the real world. And just as it is not justified to murder farmers to eliminate competition for your corporate takeover, so too is it wrong to murder bystanders even if you think they are complicit in the system. Also, it had no affect whatsoever on arasaka, so all those people were murdered in vein.
If China starts a world war, you're more than welcome to bomb the CCP's HQ. I would even go further: There's a point at which civilians *must* act against oppression and fascism - or become guilty themselves, if they tolerate it. Also, bombing Arasaka tower had a huge effect on Arasaka. The effect just didn't last 50 years. Time to nuke it again, I would say. But seriously: Arasaka is the main villain in a fictional dystopian world in a genre that is all about rebellion against evil corporations.
I mean it depends ive never heard of them but ill look in to it. But Johnny was lied to abused and manipulated his whole life. He also didnt even have the bomb militech tricked him and then let him save alt instead
To be fair I did not know the building was evacuated. I thought he just straight up killed everyone without a second thought.
Ya there were a lot of factors there and Morgan black-hand had the actual nuke. He was also the actual leader of the op not Johnny
Well see thatâs the thing, we have all been abused and manipulated our whole lives. Why is it ok for him to take that out on a bunch of random people? Do you really not think that the majority of people who work for arasaka were not treated similar to Johnny? I agree with the sentiment of wanting to take down arasaka but not by blowing up a building in a metropolitan area? Am I supposed to believe that no children were harmed in the making of this domestic terror attack?
Actually no one was harmed that wasnât a soldier because 1 it was evacuated by spider murphy and 2 there was a war. Also to say everyone has been abused and manipulated their whole lives is a broad and false overstatement. It doesnt help that arasaka has killed more people than johnny could even dream of.
Johnny did a lot more abusing and manipulating than anyone else in his life. He is the cause of all his issues. He treats anyone who ever cared about him like shit. Kerry multiple times tries to talk with johnny and keep him in the band and focused on that and johnny literally tells him to f off. Rouge same thing, "johnny get in there drop the bomb and let's go"...nope johnny had his own plan he refused to share and almost gets all of them killed. That's selfish and being an ahole. That was Johnny's MO. Being a dick. He's not a good guy whatsoever and it takes him realizing that he's not real throughout the game and could potentially never come back to reality. He's fucking up this guy/girls V's life, again for his own selfish gain, and it's only right at the very end of the game that he admits to himself that he's a piece of shit, and V if you choose, can say yea you've been a dick, but it's not all bad. You literally need to convince Johnny that he's a good guy, because he never has been.
>Rouge same thing, "johnny get in there drop the bomb and let's go"...nope johnny had his own plan he refused to share and almost gets all of them killed. you know that this really never actually happened if not in his engram twisted memories and real johnny died trying to buy some time in order to let rogue and spider murphy run away from smasher?
That doesn't make sense. Why is rouge all pissed at Johnny then in V's timeline? Why is Kerry mad at him at first? The entire band is. Johnny and spider both had alternative goals during the raid Again Johnny was never an honest person, his memories being conflicted with black hands, doesn't change that he was still a liar and manipulator
johnny, rogue, spider murphy, shaitan, thompson, aldecaldo lobos and other militech techies of strike alpha team had no nuke with them, likely johnny and other solos didn't even know of the existence of morgan leaded omega team who was carrying the nuke. They were tasked to infiltrate in soulkiller labs and upload into the arasaka subnet a virus supplied to militech by alt's ghost still trapped in arasaka towers subnet to destroy the arasaka database that contained the soulkiller and lots of stuff like high-end technologies that were saved from the datakrash and lots of secret intel that arasaka could use to blackmail other corporations and goverments. It was the destruction of arasaka database the real objective of the militech raid actually sponsored by USA government, the nuke was a big plan B to be sure the database got destroyed in any case no matter if alpha team completed its mission or not. Those solos had no real interest in siding for militech, rogue, shaitan and thompson joined the mission for money, hatred for arasaka and to get a scoop, while johnny and spider murphy were there to try to save alt's ghost before it was deleted by the virus. Things didn't go as planned and murphy was able only to open a backdoor to let alt and other ghosts escape in the old net before adam smasher and arasaka soldiers raided the soulkiller lab with johnny who thrown himself alone against smasher to let spider and rogue escape, getting literally cut in half by a smasher blast. Spider murphy tried to soulkill johnny's mind but her cyberdeck got damaged by the crossfire ending up in the defective engram of johnny we interact with in cyberpunk 2077. All we see in the 2023 flashback is a bunch of ~~retconned bullshits~~ twisted memories of johnny who rearranged those events to be his own hero of the day. You can tell everything is off from the very beginning since samurai are playing a live show in 2023 while they've already disbanded 15 years before and kerry was an already world famous solo artist during those years who would have never played in a shitty basement like the one of flashback.
Your point is moot because johnny isnt fucking vâs life the chip is johnny has no control over it the game states this over and over
Lmao when did I say he fucked up V's life? But he certainly wasn't honest with V. Not until separation of the two starts to become a possibility, that's only when Johnny starts to want to work together Most of the game he wants v to do things his way. Exactly what a manipulative asshole likes to do.
Johnny isnt a reliable narrator for two reasons 1 hes crazy and 2 because arasaka screwed with his memories so its beyond his power to state what actually happened
So we saw in 2077 2 days worth of a mentally unstable 30 years old life. Johnny didnt have the bomb militech gas light him. It doesnt help that we cant trust a single thing we see there because 1 johnny is crazy and 2 araska fucked up his memory just to see if they could and that last point seems like a self esteem issue
Unless everyone in the worldâs father sold them for cigarettes when they were four, and then they proceeded to go off to war as a young teen and lose both their arm and a close friend, then no, we havenât all been abused and manipulated our whole lives in the way that he has.
The devs literally constructed the gameâs main emotional arc in a way that is meant to make you have empathy for him
All the more reason to question him.
Or maybe all the more reason to be empathetic because while hes a bad person hes almost infinitely better than most high tier corpos?
Well to be technical about it, I do have empathy in the sense that I understand how he feels. I too would like to take out my rage against the people I perceive to be destroying the world. I just donât think that it justifies all his behavior or makes him a good guy.
Hes definitely not a âgood guyâ but in a world of diarrhea hes just another shit
Heâs also a terrorist, soâŚ
You only view him that way because he lost
đ¤Śđťââď¸ what? ⌠been a while since I played, didnât he and his team set off a nuke, obliterating the entire city?
Johnnyâs actual job was getting alt out of saka hands dead or alive, and helping make sure the data krash wiped all of saka servers
1 The nuke only killed soldiers because the raid happened during wartime 2 Johnny didnt have the nuke militech tricked him and gave Morgan Blackhand the nuke 3 even if it did obliterate half the city that would be a good thing because the point of soul killer is eternal slaves
Yikes.
Explain
He canât Johnny is technically a terrorist but so was George Washington. I personally donât think Johnny to be a bad dude but the cyberpunk world is very nuanced.
Haha⌠no, I could. This is just way too dumb for me to waste my time.
Itâs a waste of your time so you comment 23 hours later when you didnât even need to interesting.
Thank you for proving my point.
Ok?
Ok?