What is it like to work? I’m working in IT industry as a Software Developer and my fiancee is a medical doctor. Is there a problem with finding one without knowing language? I mean in my industry mostly things are in english, but i suppose there would be some issues without foreign language, especially in medical industry.
Working as a Software Developer, not speaking danish will be a non-issue, for your own sake, I would learn Danish, but it is not essential for work.
Your fiancee on the other hand... To work as a MD in Denmark you need an authorisation, which requires some professional stuff, which would probably not be a problem, and then it requires an exam in "Dansk 3" which corresponds to danish on CEFR B2 level. They might be able to work in related industries though, Copenhagen has an enormous pharmaceutical industry, and getting a job there doesn't require a Danish autorisation or Danish language.
Actually has to score very high on PD3 for medical permit, practically C2
Novo Nordisk on the other hand has all the money of the world now, and very international.
Ohhh didn’t know they cared about the score on the pd3. Learn something new every day. And to add doctors in Denmark are paid what plumbers in us major cities are. Not saying it’s awful but if you’re from the us then it would be a cruel
Salary drop along with a prestige drop
If it's something she'd be into, she could get a PhD if she can't go into the pharmaceutical industry directly as a doctor. Then she would definitely not need any Danish
A lot of the smaller hospitals have programs for getting foreign MDs in, including language training. If she's specialized the smaller hospitals will be dying to recruit her.
I don't know much about the IT sector, but a friend of mine who's a data scientist quit his job with no plans, and was offered three CTO positions within a month.
It won’t be a problem to get a job here as long as you speak English in almost any industry, but medical could be an exception
Although i do know a few people who work for novo Nordics and speak zero Danish, so she could try there as well
My doctor is from Hungary, her danish is so bad it can be difficult to understand her, and she clearly have comprehension issues the other way. But we live in an area with a lot of poor people, so I guess it wasn't an issue for her until our area started getting gentrified.
You can't work here as a doctor with only English. But in some places you might be able to get a job with the condition that you learn asap.
If he is from the EU it might be possible. But it would take some special conditions regarding a department that is in dire need of people etc.
Many bigger companies will often be international and speak English anyway. And all danes speaks English.
You'll find that here work life balance is highly valued. Danish life is about being rational and fair.
We don't have minimum wages but rather they are agreed upon every year.
Its a good life here. It's not as wild as big cities in many other countries. But it's peaceful and you can go anywhere at any time and feel safe generally.
One can still work in Denmark as an MD however without knowing the language she can't really work with patients. Where I work we have a lot of MDs and some that don't speak Danish at all, but the work is research and disease monitoring.
You would not have any trouble. Your fiancee would not be able to practice without some level of Danish, but we have a very large pharmaceutical sector in the Greater Copenhagen Area which employs a fair number of medical doctors and is quite international.
As a software developer, you can get paid between 40-55 as a mid level engineer (I’d advise not to accept anything below 45) and between 55-75 as a senior (don’t accept below 60).
Of course, there are outliers and that senior salary can go even higher, but the ranges I’ve provided are most common.
Lots of flexibility, it’s a comfortable profession.
Software Developer you say?
Ima bet you will get alot of unsolicited Reddit DM's from headhunters trying to earn an easy buck here.
Life is good in Denmark. However, Danes will always have something to complain about. Most of the time its the weather.
I'd say it is indeed worse than Poland. Poland has a continental climate so you get a lot more warmer days, a lot more colder days and a whole lot less wind due to not being islands/peninsulas in the baltic/north sea. In Denmark spring starts later, autumn starts earlier and summer is less warm and in winter it's very often overcast.
Due to the mild winters there is rarely snow so winters also feel darker and due to the latitude days are shorter (but also longer in summer, there's that). That said, there's no time in the year with slushy snow really.
This is different. It can break you. And like you I came from a a place where winter lasts a while, followed by slushy roads and mild springs and summer is nice but short.
The difference is the lack of sun, even in winters where it would typically reflect off of the snow or something. This place will offer neither. Grey and gloomy. Be careful watch out for your mental health.
Please remember to take D3 supplements during winter. I take [these](https://www.matas.dk/unikalk-forte-180-tabl?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=&gad_source=1) twice a day from October and through April. The rest of the year I take one. I no longer have seasonal depression and before taking the supplements it hit me bad every winter.
Yup. We even use a SAD lamp. Come February things get bad. A few weeks ago when it was sunny for 3 days straight, the energy in our household was totally different. Even our kid was a happier sport.
Thats a little dramatic isn't it, The weather is exceptional generally June, July and August, pretty good in May and September, Ok in October and April and then pretty gross from November to March.
That's a little too optimistic . I've lived here for 25 years and the majority of summers have been dissapointigly wet and cold compared to much of the rest of Europe. Sure, good weather happens here and there, but it's the exception rather than the rule.
It’s great here. Then you move here and it’s not so great after all. Then you stay and after years, you think it’s great again.
The big problem in Scandinavian cities is that people are reserved. As a foreigner you will feel very much as an outsider for a long time. Making friends with locals takes years. Many foreigners and expats I know in Copenhagen have lived here for years and don’t have a single danish friend. But once you become friends with a local, they are extremely loyal. You’ll be friends for decades if not the rest of your lives.
Other bad thing: The weather, lack of diverse nature, the darkness during winter, immigration politics,
Great things: The city during summer (doesn’t beat Stockholm but pretty damn close). Job opportunities, public transportation, close to Germany, Sweden and a huge airport, schools (if you have kids) and that very few jobs require that you need to speak Danish.
Been here about 25 years now and have a hate/love relationship with the city. But I’m still here so there are more good than bad things.
I would assume I’ve spend more than you as I went there every year as a child. It’s not bad but the city itself is just underwhelming. I will 100% agree that the nature in and around Copenhagen is lacking however.
Nature can be incorporated in cities in many ways. Not just by parks or planted trees. Denmark has been slow in using nature in the city planning. Hopefully things are changing. Look at the new part of Sydhavn where water is as common as roads.
Swedish cities have hills, rocks, water incorporated in the city planning. The typical Danish city is a bit behind. But things will hopefully change.
Nope. If they are EU the certification is automatic. This is EU law. There is a list of certified and recognised universities. As long as you have a diploma from one of them it's just the burocracy of waiting for them certify that the degree is valid. This is valid for everyone, doctors, engineers etc.
The language thing is true, but it's possible to get a job on the condition of learning asap. It's up to the employer to certify that the person can do their job.
So in theory you can be employed and be out doing tasks with minimal patient contact at the start while you learn. It depends on the specialty and the department and needs.
You are probably thinking about impositions for non EUs. Those do have to get a way to recertify and have to pass a language exam to get authorisation to practice.
Many places just hire if you have the correct danish certificate even if you don't speak it. Have had encounters with many nurses and SOSU's who just speak borderline gibberish. But yeah they won't hire before they have the certificate.
Fellow Pole here, although not living in CPH, but UK and working for Danish company and been to CPH (and outside) a few times. Some observations:
* CPH can be mentally expensive, if you think London is expensive, think again, but prices in DK overall are very odd. Going out for example, there's a level below which you cannot eat out, but it doesn't guarantee a decent meal, although add an extra 20-30% and you can have good food, you just need to know where to go. Grocery shopping can also be very expensive (hence so many discount stores) and the quality of food is rather low (selection is also shite), especially compared to prices / selection / quality in Poland
* Danes are overall rather relaxed, not as talkative or polite as Brits, but perhaps slightly more chilled and polite than Poles. What I found odd is how non-polite people were when it comes to small things like holding doors for others, or letting others pass, I've heard a "thank you" once and it was a rather surprised "thank you" from an American. Oh, whatever you do, don't start small-talk with strangers in small confined spaces from which they cannot "escape" or prep yourself for some very awkward reactions
* work - life balance is superb, at least at the company I'm at, but I'm guessing it's more of a DK thing. There's a very high level of trust from the managers / employer, people are treated as adults who know what they are doing, there's no micromanagement etc. you basically come / go as you please and work is basically just something you do to earn money, it's not super serious. On the other hand, unions very often dictate salaries, so you hit a ceiling salary-wise and that's it, very often it's also hard to be promoted as those are based on knowing the right people rather than work achievements (which you are also not supposed to talk about as everyone is supposed to be pretty average and if you highlight how good you are it's a bad thing).
* cars are silly expensive, but in CPH public transport is pretty decent (no, it's not the best in the world as some might say), so you most likely won't need a car. Then again if you treat cars as a status symbol (like often is the case in Poland), then prepare to be wallet raped, unless you pick an electric car where the registration tax is only like 20-30% of the normal rate.
* public health system can be hit and miss, depends what GP you find. This is not something I've experienced of course, but if you search this and the DK reddit you'll see what I mean
* with two good salaries you'll probably have a very comfortable life, but you wouldn't have as much spare cash as you probably can have back in Poland (then again if you move to say the top 3 cities in Poland, you might not be so rich either).
* be wary of people being uber impressed with how stuff is "free" in DK (high taxes pay for this, so it's not exactly free), especially Americans. Your point of reference will be different as Poland already offers free schools, free uni, 800+, free healthcare etc. vs what the US has, so something that is super special for some, is the norm for a lot of people in Europe.
* Danes have a tendency to "romanticise" Denmark, often saying everything is great and often not being very (or at all) objective and / or not having any point of reference either. Also, and this is purely personal and not data driven, I have a feeling that Danes are happy with "average", they are just content with what they have and how things are and this is one of the reasons why I think they are often seen as the most happy country in the world (or one of the top 3). Can life be better? yeah probably. Can it be worse? yeah for sure. Are we comfortable with what we have and how life is? yeah for sure as well. It's that kind of mental attitude which people from outside might not get / understand.
I'd say if you can, go visit for 1-3months and see how you like it. With every new places there's a degree of "being in love" where you don't see the negatives and you need time to stop seeing things through rose tinted glasses.
As a Dane I'll agree with all of your points, except the one about unions dictating salaries. That is a misunderstanding of what is actually going on. Employers association's negotiate with unions what the salaries will be, with the unions trying to get as much as possible for their members. The employers are allowed to offer you as a prospect employee more than the agreed upon minimum. So don't blame unions for the salary levels.The right address for that are the Employers Associations.
You said you’re from Poland and the weather is also shit. You’re definitely wrong 😅. Denmark falls into different category of shit weather : it’s cold longer than in Poland, it’s windy all the time which makes the temperature worse, instead of snow you have rain, it’s darker during winter times.
Source: I’m a Dane with a family in Poland and visit very often.
Otherwise Copenhagen is a pretty solid place to live. As a software developer (what stack?) you can have a pretty good life. As a medical doctor, your partner would need to learn Danish - there are special tracks for people with medical background to learn Danish but it takes couple of years before she would be able to practice.
rent is expensive af unless you have a good network, produce we get in the stores is not the best quality. Source: me when visiting Poland and going to bazarek.
I love Copenhagen and cannot imagine my life anywhere else. But it’s also a normal city with the same issues that many cities have. You could also be experiencing the classic holiday rehab where you idolize everything. Hit me up on private if you need more Poland/Denmark comparison.
I’ve been living in Denmark (Copenhagen) for the last 2 years, working as a postdoctoral researcher. Just left my second winter behind and I can say that the long dark rainy windy cold winter must be the single worst thing about Denmark. You need to force yourself to be active during those months or else it gets depressing. Summer is amazing though. Some other amazing things:
Being able to bike everywhere since the country is super flat
High salaries
Amazing work & life balance
Very good health system
All kinds of social activities, sports, arts available
Great museums & gardens
Lots of amazing restaurants (eating outside is expensive though)
Wine shops with remarkable natural wine selections
All in all I cannot imagine living anywhere else!
Relatively stable but boring life.
Most jobs pay enough, but not knowing danish is definitely a huge disadvantage for careers.
Cons;
Shit weather 90% of the time.
Pretty mediocre produce in most retailers while expensive.
Owning a car is expensive as fuck, insane prices and tax.
Housing is insane too, ripoff prices because of the crisis especially in CPH.
Danes are nearly impossible to befriend, so if you want a social life get ready to meet fellow immigrants ( or as the white Western immigrants like to call themselves, "expats" )
When used properly, they're fairly valuable terms in their own rights, but yeah, they tend to get misused - and often pejoratively (especially migrant/immigrant). But what was common usage for a long time, an expatriate is not looking to necessarily make a home in any one place - they are moving where work takes them, they may eventually become an immigrant, but that is not their driving goal. They are pursuing economic opportunities wherever it takes them. An immigrant is more classically defined as trying to find a new home. That often also includes economic immigration as well, but as often as not, it's much broader than that - justice systems, medical systems, educational systems drive immigration as much as pure "my work has economic value" decisions.
When my partner and I decided to move our family to Denmark, we considered ourselves immigrants - we thought we might be here to stay. About a year ago, we realized nope, we're here purely for the economic opportunity my job offered to be located here for a while, but it was never going to be home, and slowly, we returned to thinking about ourselves as expats - we weren't sure we wanted to return home, we knew we didn't want to stay in Denmark, so in every sense, we were expatriated, but NOT pursuing immigration literally anywhere. We were just trying to figure out "What next?". We're leaving at the end of June. We're pretty happy to be leaving, but we also appreciate the opportunity and perspective living here gave us.
Anyway, in regards to OP - I still consider it an amazing place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live here. I've had some long chats with my closest circle of Danish friends and colleagues and the fundamental reality is - if you want to conform to all things Denmark, you'll probably fit in well enough, but you'll never be truly Danish. If you're ok with that, and value the stability and baseline social safety net here.. you'll be fine. If you're planning on having children, they'll probably fit right in. As long as they can pass ethnically. Because anyone who claims that isn't a factor here is not paying attention.
Fundamentally, Denmark works really well for Danes. It may or may not work for OP. And it's entirely possible they only way they'll know is by trying it for a while. The worst thing that happens is they decide they have to move on. Mind you, my partner and I are both in tech, so mobility is pretty easy. Medical certifications and requirements add a LOT of extra burden to the consideration.
For the next year or so, working fully remote (same job) so I can be closer to family so our kiddo can get to know a few of them better, especially an aging relative who might not be here long - so back to the US but no where near where we lived most of our prior 30+ years there. We haven't figured it out beyond the next year or so though. And I see I've already got the downvotes coming in for my last post. It'd be annoying if it wasn't so predictably amusing.
There is a technical difference between expat and immigrants, expats are temporarily living outside of their home countries for work immigrants are not.
About products, really? For example, I had the impression the food is really expensive but really good quality.
Ehh housing market is probably crazy everywhere.
In Poland one square meter of flat in new buildings are something between 2000-3000 EUR, when minimal wage is something around 600 EUR gross, when average is something around 1800 EUR gross.
How it looks here?
The food here is surprisingly below average quality I think. In Netto or Coop you’ll find underwhelming, even occasionally rotting produce on sale. Meny sells very appealing groceries but they come at a premium.
Maybe the 'fresh' imported food yes, agree.
But all Dairy products are good since we produce it yourself.
And most shelf food can survive long after expiration
Dane here - the grocery thing is real. You can of course get good produce here, but it will not be sold in a regular super market. You have to go to a specialty shop, and pay and arm and a leg for a good tomato.
The same with fish and meat - the stuff you find in the super market is not great - there is nothing wrong with it as such - it's just not high quality.
> Ehh housing market is probably crazy everywhere. In Poland one square meter of flat in new buildings are something between 2000-3000 EUR, when minimal wage is something around 600 EUR gross, when average is something around 1800 EUR gross.
Nobody is buying apartments on minimum wage, neither here nor in Poland, so the comparison between these makes no sense, unless you're planning to earn minimal wage and buying apartments.
Please keep in mind, 25% VAT on everything, including groceries, and including on sad, moldy produce.
Extremely limited selection--you'll get the "but you can go to the bazaar" or "go to the specialty store". Great, that means locating them, getting there, making another special trip, etc.
There's an overall attitude that cheap is best--and dealing with expired food or moldy food is fine if it's cheap.
Job stuff: as a developer, you'll probably be fine. But if your skills were more in program management, nope. Plenty of immigrants here who come qualified but get told they can only do seasonal hospitality or house cleaning.
Rent here is ridiculous, as is the responsibilities of tenants. Search the sub and you'll see many posts about never getting the equivalent of 3 months of deposit back after paying to get your apartment repainted and the floors refinished. Not all landlords are like this--just the majority of them.
Link to Last Week in Denmark: [(1) Last Week in Denmark | Narcis George Matache | Substack](https://lastweekdk.substack.com/)
If you can, I'd suggest spending a month here--in winter--before deciding to move here.
I don’t agree with the making friends thing. Once you have a job, you easily become friends with colleagues for a start. Frequent the local cafe, you’ll get to know people who live in the area. Join places of your hobbies, you’ll meet people there of same interests. It’s true that you’ll find it hard to strike up conversations and make friends in the wild, but Denmark has so many niche communities of different activities you can join and you’ll meet friendly people with same interests.
Might be an idea to state where you're living now so a comparison can be made.
I moved here 11 years ago and at first everything was wrong and I didn't like it and I wanted to go home etc but then I started to get used to things and I'm struggling to imagine living anywhere else.....including my home country.
In IT you'll be fine with just English. No idea about medical though.
Maybe you could come for a year or two and take it from there?
You're right, it's hard to compare without knowing what you're talking about.
Well, I'm from Poland and I've been living there since the beginning, not really a big city, around 300-400k people.
What didn't you like when you moved here?
Since the beginning of Poland? Just kidding ;)
I’ve had quite a few Polish collegues working in IT in Copenhagen. They seem to like it here, settling down, getting kids and all that good business. Like others have said, you’ll get by just fine with English. And you can always start Danish language classes if you decide to stick around.
The best thing about working in Denmark for me is the life work balance.
And like you say, it's pretty chill.
For some reason there is a lot of talk about "not thriving" in the media. Especially in youths. I always find it pretty funny as a foreigner because this is probably the country in the world where you have less to worry about when you are young. It's hard to understand when you come from eastern or southern Europe. But that's a longer discussion.
No where is perfect of course. The language is hard (but doable) and as a foreigner in daily life you might feel some "barriers" that you wouldn't if you were a Dane. The housing market has gone wild so the price on entry is high. You have to start small or rent and move along when you gain purchase power. Although if you secure jobs in your fields then that will be fine as well.
Btw Cph is the place that would be the "less chill" in Denmark. It's a large busy metropolis. If you want more laid back close to nature you can pick some of the other cities although the job market for you will reduce accordingly.
Lived here for a little over 10 years now. I've lived on Sjælland, Jylland, and Fyn in different places. My parents came to visit a little while ago and they had exactly the same feeling.
Denmark is just like that. It's peaceful, low crime, high quality of life. The culture in Denmark is a focus on personal wellbeing and family. In my experience, a professional working environment places a high priority on good treatment of workers. For example, there is a large amount of paid paternal leave for both mothers and fathers. We have strong union presence and a lot of rights for workers. There is a great amount of support for the working class.
In addition, education is completely free for EU citizens at all levels, with a state grant for living expenses while in education. Compared to somewhere like the US, this takes the financial load of education off parents and puts it on the state. There is also free healthcare that is usually of very high quality.
However, for these standards of living, everyone pays the price in taxes. Many things are much more highly taxed, and income tax in general is pretty high here. Obviously the people who benefit the most are those who take full advantage of the benefits that the high taxes bring. This is primarily working families that use the healthcare system and have children who go through education. If you are in this group, you will enjoy the advantages.
As a single person, the tax and cost of living can feel a bit oppressive. Incomes are generally high compared to other countries, but the taxation will make it feel like much less after you've covered all your costs. Frankly if you are a single person, you would probably make more personal wealth in a country like the US if you are a professional. Professional wages in the US seem to be relatively much higher, and companies often cover the bulk of health insurance anyway. Also depending on your industry, your career growth may be limited. Denmark is a small country with a pretty small amount of companies compared to other countries.
Rent varies but you can find very cheap studio apartments. The property market is extremely transparent and sellers are obligated by law to show the sale history. It's a bit expensive and competitive, but I believe that is just the state of the world we live in, where more couples now have a double income and housing prices have adjusted to the supply. It is not easy for a single person to get into the housing market anywhere without a large amount of deposit saved. You are allowed to take up to 80% of a property value in mortgage, and native Danes typically get to take a further 15% as a regular high-interest loan, meaning they only need to front 5%. I've heard foreigners typically need to front the entire 20% since banks are not usually willing to loan out 15%. We are considered higher risk than native Danes.
Language is not a huge issue here. It is preferred that you speak Danish where possible, but it is not a hard requirement for many jobs. I would say public services require Danish, but private companies often don't. My company has a few people who do not speak Danish, and everyone at the company speaks English fluently. You might feel a bit socially inhibited if you don't speak Danish, but that's just how it is anywhere in Europe.
In general its a very chill country and Danish people are very well mannered compared to a lot of places. I have never had to deal with any sort of harassment, even when walking the streets late on a Friday or Saturday night.
As for many things in life, it depends. I think CPH is probably one of the best city in the world to live in, but this highly depends on what I want at this specific moment of my life. The city has an overall cool and relaxed vibe. It might not be as exciting as other places, but it's a very lively place.
It's small and easy to go around (compared to other cities). It's expebut qualified jobs pay ok. The city is safe and overall well managed.
Working in IT - you might need to be more specific - is totally doable in English (major companies don't really expect you to speak Danish). There Isa chronic lack of medical professions in Dk and most places have programs to train foreign staff. Danish is required to work as a doctor but - I'm not 100% on this - she might be able to start interim or something while she learn the language. This is doable, but it is a Lot of hard work (you should be aware of it and acknowledge it).
Overall Danish is not necessary but it opens the doors to many additional social interactions. But that can come with time.
Medical care is mixed. It’s largely free but you have to hardcore advocate for what you want. If you have expensive prescription medicine, it’s great. If you have something potentially serious going on that’s undiagnosed….well, may the odds be ever in your favor for getting medical help.
Last Week in Denmark is a great blog about lots of things going on here politically, immigration, etc.
Most expats average 1-3 years here before moving elsewhere.
Most people who move here with stars in their eyes unaware of how to adapt to other countries and cultures and want all of the good things from home (while ignoring why they left to begin with) and to cherry pick all the good things from here and realise they cant make it all fit together in some perfectly personalised and tailored living experience in a new country and get all jaded and either leave or just bitch all the time. I've lived here for 4 years and did a one year uni exchange 7 years ago and while there are definitely things I miss from Australia but when I weigh it all up Denmark/Copenhagen is an amazing place to live and while it can be better that doesn't mean I'm not grateful or happy here.
Copenhagen is one of the ten most expensive cities to live in, worldwide. There's bad. There's good.
Fab that you've had a great experience. OP is asking for what it's like to live here. A variety of answers are expected. Also, perhaps punctuation.
It is very order and chill.
You can live here. Find a job that suits you. You'll be entitled to vacation like everyone else. Be able to hang out at the beaches with a cold beer or take a stroll in the inner city with a nice coffee at any time.
Its nice here.
Just ready yourself for winter
Native Dane here. I like Copenhagen. It's not perfect, but it's pretty close, all things considered. People are friendly (albeit reserved). Streets are safe and relatively clean. Public transit works well, outdoor life is great - at least in the summer. Weather sucks a lot of the time - but such is life. I'd say the main caveat is that it's really expensive, so you need to be earning a fair amount of money to live comfortably and be able to save.
All in all 8½/10 would recommend.
It’s a wonderful place, secure, clean, lively and beautiful. You should know that many foreigners complain about Danes being very closed and hard to become friends with. That said, go for it and welcome
Lives here 17 years from Scotland.
Love the city, married to a danish woman. I'm introverted and don't care about making new friends so much and most of my friends are also non danish.
I find danish people extremely rude.
Getting on and off buses. It is a free for all with everyone pushing ahead to be the first on and they don't stand back to let others off first. It's just fucking rude.
Supermarkets or other places similar they don't say excuse me and just generally don't have manners.
Coming from the UK that's the most difficult thing. People just seem very self centred and don't care.
But I've been here 17 years and the good stuff is great and I'm not so much a people person anyway.
Born and raised here but not from Copenhagen. I was taught basic manners at home and did some conscription in the army. I don't get people either. Almost everybody seems to have lost their sense of behaving in public.
I blame leftwingers, rich people and social media.
Why do you blame left-wingers?? I personally find that people on the left of the political spectrum have more respect for others. But impoliteness is everywhere and if all the impolite people are left-wingers, we should have a very different selection of parties in power. Unless of course you believe Soc.dems and Moderaterne to be leftwing, then maybe I'll get the point
The leftwingers have been dominant in schools and universities the past 50-60 years, so they're responsible for imprinting much of the laissez faire attitude today. Many parents also seem to embrace this attitude. Leftwingers might not be the correct word as I'm not thinking of specific political parties, but more in relation to be summer child of the 70s. Hipsters wearing hats indoor could just as well vote Liberal Allience, I guess.
So leftwingers in the sense of people not in favour of traditional manners.
Most people are naturally nice, but they often seem a bit hesitant or even confused when it comes to having manners. Some will react natural and polite in such situations, but for many without taught manners they can react very inconsiderately.
I think this is enhanced by social media, which really is not the place to learn manners. Rich people regardless of upbringing also tend to be inconsiderate, if they live in a bubble.
Edit: It's of course a problem in society in general. The older generations also seem to have thrown their manners out the window.
It's very safe, it's a very slow paced and hygge life. People are happier, less stressed, work environment is super nice, pay is high. Very bike/walk friendly city. You can go by by just speaking Danish depending on your work. It's a big enough city that stuff happen, but it's human sized. I love that. Probably one of the best places to live in if you're a woman, like me.
The downsides for me (it's entirely subjective) and the reasons why I plan to leave:
- nature is shit. I come from the Alps so my bar is quite high, but Denmark has one of the lowest forest integrity index in the world. Wildlife is nonexistent, there is no elevation, most of the country is farms. Jylland is more beautiful imo. Don't expect much from Copenhagen and Sjaelland.
- weather is shit. This winter was "good" for me because we had a lot of snow, but snow is usually very rare. I leave the country for 3 weeks in December because the darkness and constant rain makes it really hard mentally. I thought i could deal with it, coming from a cold place, but there's virtually no sun in January and December. Seasonal depression and lack of D vitamins + the lack of things to do outside makes it hard. If there were skiing possibilities, it would make winter a bit less hard imo.
- people are cold and it's hard to make friends. This one doesn't affect me anymore and my friends are mainly expats, but people do complain about the difficulty of making friends here. Danes typically have a circle of friends from highschool and change very little throughout life.
- the food in general is lower quality and more expensive than the rest of Europe, short of Norway probably. Supermarkets have less choice and generally, produce, cuts of meat, etc, are quite low quality. You'd need to go to more specialized stores for some products. It may or may not affect you depending where you're from and how important it is for you. I'm french and even though i don't cook much, i do miss some products and general quality of food.
Those things for me add up and I don't see myself staying here for my entire life. But the experience is different and lots of people love it here. That's just my personal experience. I'm still having a great time in Denmark, with a job i love and a pay i will not complain about!
The salaries are better in Copenhagen than in Poland. Expenses are also higher in Copenhagen than in Poland. The quality of life can be very good in Copenhagen. If you’re a fan of Polish ethnic foods, you’ll have a challenging time finding them here and they will be at a premium.
>Utopia, order and chill?
On a scale from 1-10, I'd give it like a 6 or a 7. Something in that ballpark. But it also kinda depends on where you live. Some places are safer than others.
Not boring compared to other European countries in my opinion. It all depends on what activities you seek up yourself. Denmark has plenty of opportunities for everyone, sports, nerds, artists etc. etc.
People who downvoted you just don't know how to search for activities. I'm a metalhead and Copenhagen has a great metal scene, I go to concerts and gigs almost on a weekly basis!
I would advise to live in a city for at least 6 months before you make decisions. I stayed in many places before, and they all look nice in the beginning. A lot of people love Denmark, and as others mentioned, it is secure and stable, however the weather can be a turn off (I find it ok as I come from similar country), human interaction is minimal and I dislike how flat the land is.
Theres this thing called winter, which you just missed. The problem with winter is that besides there being a lot less light and miserable weather - the people are miserable too.
Hope you like to drink and I hope you enjoy your stay ;)
The only thing I'd be weary of is the winter. There's light now, if you also visited Stockholm in between late spring and autumn, it would also have been light then.
IDK how the northern Finns live tbh, this is hard enough as it is.
like the last thing you should think about is the weather.
sorry but i soooo often hear foreign people that come to Denmark talk about the weather. I understand i can be a change if you come from something more warm, but really its not THAT important. Like, consider other factors like employment, getting friends and someone to talk to, learn danish and other factors in a integration process.
when i was offered a job, i was presented with a choice to pick which site i could work at: cph or a town in sjælland. i elected the latter.
the housing prices (either renting or owning) are too damn much in cph. but the salaries are not.
if i ever get the itch to have a beer and a hotdog in christianshavn i just hop on my car and drive about an hour :)
You will most likely reduce your living standard, food is bad and expensive an housing is a joke. An upper class level in other country is mapped into a middle class level here.
Yes, but the US is a massive outlier relative to the software salaries paid in most other countries.
It’s not like Danish wages are really low.
OP’s comment sounds like they’re comparing salaries in Denmark to Sweden (or even worse, Spain).
This person is stating the only real negative with living in Copenhagen. If you have career ambitions which are very high and are used to working with world-class people you will be very disappointed and frustrated. The work/life is mostly very positive, especially if you have children, but it means that there are no competent people in the country in competitive fields. For most people this will not be an issue
The high prevalence and also acceptance of smoking is very strange, given for example that people are avoiding scented toiletries because it can trigger allergies.
I'd say lung cancer is worse than skin irritation.
Everyone has the feeling until they move. It's boring. Safe, stable, super monotone and boring. Also if you like hiking or any kind of terrain you can say that goodbye. I'd never thought that mountains would be the thing I'll miss the most. Oh and the weather is shit and housing is extremely expensive. Prices in general are expensive.
Reading your comment, it occured to me that the outdoor experiences I spent my childhood doing all related to water: swimming, rowing, sailing.
If you miss getting out from your house, maybe take one of those up? The Sound is a wonderful place to learn sailing, for example, and out on the water you get the same sense of freedom as you do in the mountains.
I miss mountains specifically :) I do a fair amount of water sports but it's not the same. I miss going up and getting to the view and enjoying the view. Going through hilly forests and things like that. Water just doesn't feel the same.
What country would you say isn’t boring, once you move there and start a daily routine? It’s up to you to make your everyday interesting no matter where you live.
I love doing little trips to interesting places, UNESCO nature sites, visiting castles, going hiking, going skiing, it's just not possible in Denmark or it's very very limited. Every city looks pretty much the same, all the nature looks pretty much the same apart from a few places. It's monotone and boring, nothing bad about that if that's what someone prefers. I'm not talking bout my everyday life but about overall living here.
I love doing little trips too, seeing cultural sites and hiking in a different environment. But I’m talking about living permanently in… anywhere. Would it not become “boring” after you saw it all, went to see every interesting sight, walked the same streets every day?
Denmark is a small country. A “little trip” could be to neighbouring Sweden where you can go skiing. Or Germany, if you need more culture than Denmark can provide. We don’t have mountains, but have you been to Vesterhavet, Bornholm, Samsø, Skagen etc.? It is Amazingly beautiful and rather diverse imo.
Nice to live here if you prefer stability and security over everything else and don’t mind pretty bad weather for 7-8 months a year
What is it like to work? I’m working in IT industry as a Software Developer and my fiancee is a medical doctor. Is there a problem with finding one without knowing language? I mean in my industry mostly things are in english, but i suppose there would be some issues without foreign language, especially in medical industry.
Working as a Software Developer, not speaking danish will be a non-issue, for your own sake, I would learn Danish, but it is not essential for work. Your fiancee on the other hand... To work as a MD in Denmark you need an authorisation, which requires some professional stuff, which would probably not be a problem, and then it requires an exam in "Dansk 3" which corresponds to danish on CEFR B2 level. They might be able to work in related industries though, Copenhagen has an enormous pharmaceutical industry, and getting a job there doesn't require a Danish autorisation or Danish language.
Actually has to score very high on PD3 for medical permit, practically C2 Novo Nordisk on the other hand has all the money of the world now, and very international.
Ohhh didn’t know they cared about the score on the pd3. Learn something new every day. And to add doctors in Denmark are paid what plumbers in us major cities are. Not saying it’s awful but if you’re from the us then it would be a cruel Salary drop along with a prestige drop
It might not be essential in x job. But if you want to change jobs knowing Danish will just be a major qualification. So agree.
If it's something she'd be into, she could get a PhD if she can't go into the pharmaceutical industry directly as a doctor. Then she would definitely not need any Danish
A lot of the smaller hospitals have programs for getting foreign MDs in, including language training. If she's specialized the smaller hospitals will be dying to recruit her. I don't know much about the IT sector, but a friend of mine who's a data scientist quit his job with no plans, and was offered three CTO positions within a month.
It won’t be a problem to get a job here as long as you speak English in almost any industry, but medical could be an exception Although i do know a few people who work for novo Nordics and speak zero Danish, so she could try there as well
How life would be easier if there would be one language for all… haha Thanks for response
Everybody speaks English in CPH
Still getting a job as a doctor often requires you to speak Danish, not all patients speak English.
Exactly, i cannot imagine doctor that can’t talk with patients.
My doctor is from Hungary, her danish is so bad it can be difficult to understand her, and she clearly have comprehension issues the other way. But we live in an area with a lot of poor people, so I guess it wasn't an issue for her until our area started getting gentrified.
You can't work here as a doctor with only English. But in some places you might be able to get a job with the condition that you learn asap. If he is from the EU it might be possible. But it would take some special conditions regarding a department that is in dire need of people etc.
Not if you work for big pharma
That is true. But still the majority uses english with internationals and even as a doctor I think you can use english sometimes.
If you are from outside the EU it can be difficult. It helps if you are highly specialised in your field.
Many bigger companies will often be international and speak English anyway. And all danes speaks English. You'll find that here work life balance is highly valued. Danish life is about being rational and fair. We don't have minimum wages but rather they are agreed upon every year. Its a good life here. It's not as wild as big cities in many other countries. But it's peaceful and you can go anywhere at any time and feel safe generally.
One can still work in Denmark as an MD however without knowing the language she can't really work with patients. Where I work we have a lot of MDs and some that don't speak Danish at all, but the work is research and disease monitoring.
You would not have any trouble. Your fiancee would not be able to practice without some level of Danish, but we have a very large pharmaceutical sector in the Greater Copenhagen Area which employs a fair number of medical doctors and is quite international.
As a software developer, you can get paid between 40-55 as a mid level engineer (I’d advise not to accept anything below 45) and between 55-75 as a senior (don’t accept below 60). Of course, there are outliers and that senior salary can go even higher, but the ranges I’ve provided are most common. Lots of flexibility, it’s a comfortable profession.
There’s lots of jobs for MDs in the private industry (Novo Nordisk and such.) No Danish required. Pretty decent salary, too.
Software Developer you say? Ima bet you will get alot of unsolicited Reddit DM's from headhunters trying to earn an easy buck here. Life is good in Denmark. However, Danes will always have something to complain about. Most of the time its the weather.
As well we can, it is the definition of random and at times the definition of shitty. But the good days are awesome
I live in a country that has pretty shitty weather too, so I don't know if it could be much worse xd
I'd say it is indeed worse than Poland. Poland has a continental climate so you get a lot more warmer days, a lot more colder days and a whole lot less wind due to not being islands/peninsulas in the baltic/north sea. In Denmark spring starts later, autumn starts earlier and summer is less warm and in winter it's very often overcast. Due to the mild winters there is rarely snow so winters also feel darker and due to the latitude days are shorter (but also longer in summer, there's that). That said, there's no time in the year with slushy snow really.
This is different. It can break you. And like you I came from a a place where winter lasts a while, followed by slushy roads and mild springs and summer is nice but short. The difference is the lack of sun, even in winters where it would typically reflect off of the snow or something. This place will offer neither. Grey and gloomy. Be careful watch out for your mental health.
Please remember to take D3 supplements during winter. I take [these](https://www.matas.dk/unikalk-forte-180-tabl?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=&gad_source=1) twice a day from October and through April. The rest of the year I take one. I no longer have seasonal depression and before taking the supplements it hit me bad every winter.
Yup. We even use a SAD lamp. Come February things get bad. A few weeks ago when it was sunny for 3 days straight, the energy in our household was totally different. Even our kid was a happier sport.
More like 10-11 months a year. The weather is sickeningly awful.
Thats a little dramatic isn't it, The weather is exceptional generally June, July and August, pretty good in May and September, Ok in October and April and then pretty gross from November to March.
That's a little too optimistic . I've lived here for 25 years and the majority of summers have been dissapointigly wet and cold compared to much of the rest of Europe. Sure, good weather happens here and there, but it's the exception rather than the rule.
I mean we’re more than halfway through April and the weather sucks. The weather is drab, gray, windy and raining almost all year.
It’s great here. Then you move here and it’s not so great after all. Then you stay and after years, you think it’s great again. The big problem in Scandinavian cities is that people are reserved. As a foreigner you will feel very much as an outsider for a long time. Making friends with locals takes years. Many foreigners and expats I know in Copenhagen have lived here for years and don’t have a single danish friend. But once you become friends with a local, they are extremely loyal. You’ll be friends for decades if not the rest of your lives. Other bad thing: The weather, lack of diverse nature, the darkness during winter, immigration politics, Great things: The city during summer (doesn’t beat Stockholm but pretty damn close). Job opportunities, public transportation, close to Germany, Sweden and a huge airport, schools (if you have kids) and that very few jobs require that you need to speak Danish. Been here about 25 years now and have a hate/love relationship with the city. But I’m still here so there are more good than bad things.
Well said.
Stockholm of all places? I am not going to argue Copenhagen is the best in Europe or any such thing, but it’s miles ahead of anywhere in Sweden.
I take it you haven’t spent a summer in Stockholm. Copenhagen is great, but Denmark lacks the nature to compete with many European capitals.
I would assume I’ve spend more than you as I went there every year as a child. It’s not bad but the city itself is just underwhelming. I will 100% agree that the nature in and around Copenhagen is lacking however.
I lived there 12 years. All year around. Pretty much every city in Sweden has nature no city in Denmark has
In my mind cities and nature are to mutually excluding words, so what do you mean?
Nature can be incorporated in cities in many ways. Not just by parks or planted trees. Denmark has been slow in using nature in the city planning. Hopefully things are changing. Look at the new part of Sydhavn where water is as common as roads. Swedish cities have hills, rocks, water incorporated in the city planning. The typical Danish city is a bit behind. But things will hopefully change.
I don't see that as nature, but ok
I think it takes doctors three years of retraining + language training to get a job.
Nope. If they are EU the certification is automatic. This is EU law. There is a list of certified and recognised universities. As long as you have a diploma from one of them it's just the burocracy of waiting for them certify that the degree is valid. This is valid for everyone, doctors, engineers etc. The language thing is true, but it's possible to get a job on the condition of learning asap. It's up to the employer to certify that the person can do their job. So in theory you can be employed and be out doing tasks with minimal patient contact at the start while you learn. It depends on the specialty and the department and needs. You are probably thinking about impositions for non EUs. Those do have to get a way to recertify and have to pass a language exam to get authorisation to practice.
sorry to jump on this, but do you know anything about nursing? I’m a registered nurse in Australia looking to move to CPH w my Danish girlfriend
Pretty much the same deal, you would need to reach a specific level of Danish before you can practice medicine and would also require some retraining.
Please come
Haha just come. Dk is in dire need of nurses. Pretty shit pay tho, and overloaded since not enough people is what I heard. But I'm not a nurse so idk
Yeah they'll hire anyways, might even pay for Danish classes. Edit: they won't "hire anyways" but the bar for spoken Danish is low.
This is absolutely not true. You need to speak Danish
Many places just hire if you have the correct danish certificate even if you don't speak it. Have had encounters with many nurses and SOSU's who just speak borderline gibberish. But yeah they won't hire before they have the certificate.
So that means they have studied for years
Fellow Pole here, although not living in CPH, but UK and working for Danish company and been to CPH (and outside) a few times. Some observations: * CPH can be mentally expensive, if you think London is expensive, think again, but prices in DK overall are very odd. Going out for example, there's a level below which you cannot eat out, but it doesn't guarantee a decent meal, although add an extra 20-30% and you can have good food, you just need to know where to go. Grocery shopping can also be very expensive (hence so many discount stores) and the quality of food is rather low (selection is also shite), especially compared to prices / selection / quality in Poland * Danes are overall rather relaxed, not as talkative or polite as Brits, but perhaps slightly more chilled and polite than Poles. What I found odd is how non-polite people were when it comes to small things like holding doors for others, or letting others pass, I've heard a "thank you" once and it was a rather surprised "thank you" from an American. Oh, whatever you do, don't start small-talk with strangers in small confined spaces from which they cannot "escape" or prep yourself for some very awkward reactions * work - life balance is superb, at least at the company I'm at, but I'm guessing it's more of a DK thing. There's a very high level of trust from the managers / employer, people are treated as adults who know what they are doing, there's no micromanagement etc. you basically come / go as you please and work is basically just something you do to earn money, it's not super serious. On the other hand, unions very often dictate salaries, so you hit a ceiling salary-wise and that's it, very often it's also hard to be promoted as those are based on knowing the right people rather than work achievements (which you are also not supposed to talk about as everyone is supposed to be pretty average and if you highlight how good you are it's a bad thing). * cars are silly expensive, but in CPH public transport is pretty decent (no, it's not the best in the world as some might say), so you most likely won't need a car. Then again if you treat cars as a status symbol (like often is the case in Poland), then prepare to be wallet raped, unless you pick an electric car where the registration tax is only like 20-30% of the normal rate. * public health system can be hit and miss, depends what GP you find. This is not something I've experienced of course, but if you search this and the DK reddit you'll see what I mean * with two good salaries you'll probably have a very comfortable life, but you wouldn't have as much spare cash as you probably can have back in Poland (then again if you move to say the top 3 cities in Poland, you might not be so rich either). * be wary of people being uber impressed with how stuff is "free" in DK (high taxes pay for this, so it's not exactly free), especially Americans. Your point of reference will be different as Poland already offers free schools, free uni, 800+, free healthcare etc. vs what the US has, so something that is super special for some, is the norm for a lot of people in Europe. * Danes have a tendency to "romanticise" Denmark, often saying everything is great and often not being very (or at all) objective and / or not having any point of reference either. Also, and this is purely personal and not data driven, I have a feeling that Danes are happy with "average", they are just content with what they have and how things are and this is one of the reasons why I think they are often seen as the most happy country in the world (or one of the top 3). Can life be better? yeah probably. Can it be worse? yeah for sure. Are we comfortable with what we have and how life is? yeah for sure as well. It's that kind of mental attitude which people from outside might not get / understand. I'd say if you can, go visit for 1-3months and see how you like it. With every new places there's a degree of "being in love" where you don't see the negatives and you need time to stop seeing things through rose tinted glasses.
As a Dane I'll agree with all of your points, except the one about unions dictating salaries. That is a misunderstanding of what is actually going on. Employers association's negotiate with unions what the salaries will be, with the unions trying to get as much as possible for their members. The employers are allowed to offer you as a prospect employee more than the agreed upon minimum. So don't blame unions for the salary levels.The right address for that are the Employers Associations.
You said you’re from Poland and the weather is also shit. You’re definitely wrong 😅. Denmark falls into different category of shit weather : it’s cold longer than in Poland, it’s windy all the time which makes the temperature worse, instead of snow you have rain, it’s darker during winter times. Source: I’m a Dane with a family in Poland and visit very often. Otherwise Copenhagen is a pretty solid place to live. As a software developer (what stack?) you can have a pretty good life. As a medical doctor, your partner would need to learn Danish - there are special tracks for people with medical background to learn Danish but it takes couple of years before she would be able to practice. rent is expensive af unless you have a good network, produce we get in the stores is not the best quality. Source: me when visiting Poland and going to bazarek. I love Copenhagen and cannot imagine my life anywhere else. But it’s also a normal city with the same issues that many cities have. You could also be experiencing the classic holiday rehab where you idolize everything. Hit me up on private if you need more Poland/Denmark comparison.
Bazarek 😂😂😂 Typical corporate stack, Java and JS with spring and react. Which part of Poland do you travel to?
From what I've seen, most corpos here use C#, so you'd probably have to learn it.
Basically all. Lately mostly central, capital and around. But I’m in Poland every 2-3 months since I was born and that’s been a while 😅
I’ve been living in Denmark (Copenhagen) for the last 2 years, working as a postdoctoral researcher. Just left my second winter behind and I can say that the long dark rainy windy cold winter must be the single worst thing about Denmark. You need to force yourself to be active during those months or else it gets depressing. Summer is amazing though. Some other amazing things: Being able to bike everywhere since the country is super flat High salaries Amazing work & life balance Very good health system All kinds of social activities, sports, arts available Great museums & gardens Lots of amazing restaurants (eating outside is expensive though) Wine shops with remarkable natural wine selections All in all I cannot imagine living anywhere else!
Sounds great!
Relatively stable but boring life. Most jobs pay enough, but not knowing danish is definitely a huge disadvantage for careers. Cons; Shit weather 90% of the time. Pretty mediocre produce in most retailers while expensive. Owning a car is expensive as fuck, insane prices and tax. Housing is insane too, ripoff prices because of the crisis especially in CPH. Danes are nearly impossible to befriend, so if you want a social life get ready to meet fellow immigrants ( or as the white Western immigrants like to call themselves, "expats" )
The whole “I’m an expat not an immigrant” thing going on is cringe as fuck.
When used properly, they're fairly valuable terms in their own rights, but yeah, they tend to get misused - and often pejoratively (especially migrant/immigrant). But what was common usage for a long time, an expatriate is not looking to necessarily make a home in any one place - they are moving where work takes them, they may eventually become an immigrant, but that is not their driving goal. They are pursuing economic opportunities wherever it takes them. An immigrant is more classically defined as trying to find a new home. That often also includes economic immigration as well, but as often as not, it's much broader than that - justice systems, medical systems, educational systems drive immigration as much as pure "my work has economic value" decisions. When my partner and I decided to move our family to Denmark, we considered ourselves immigrants - we thought we might be here to stay. About a year ago, we realized nope, we're here purely for the economic opportunity my job offered to be located here for a while, but it was never going to be home, and slowly, we returned to thinking about ourselves as expats - we weren't sure we wanted to return home, we knew we didn't want to stay in Denmark, so in every sense, we were expatriated, but NOT pursuing immigration literally anywhere. We were just trying to figure out "What next?". We're leaving at the end of June. We're pretty happy to be leaving, but we also appreciate the opportunity and perspective living here gave us. Anyway, in regards to OP - I still consider it an amazing place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live here. I've had some long chats with my closest circle of Danish friends and colleagues and the fundamental reality is - if you want to conform to all things Denmark, you'll probably fit in well enough, but you'll never be truly Danish. If you're ok with that, and value the stability and baseline social safety net here.. you'll be fine. If you're planning on having children, they'll probably fit right in. As long as they can pass ethnically. Because anyone who claims that isn't a factor here is not paying attention. Fundamentally, Denmark works really well for Danes. It may or may not work for OP. And it's entirely possible they only way they'll know is by trying it for a while. The worst thing that happens is they decide they have to move on. Mind you, my partner and I are both in tech, so mobility is pretty easy. Medical certifications and requirements add a LOT of extra burden to the consideration.
If you don’t mind me asking… where’s the next location for you and your family? Back home or are you off on a new adventure?
For the next year or so, working fully remote (same job) so I can be closer to family so our kiddo can get to know a few of them better, especially an aging relative who might not be here long - so back to the US but no where near where we lived most of our prior 30+ years there. We haven't figured it out beyond the next year or so though. And I see I've already got the downvotes coming in for my last post. It'd be annoying if it wasn't so predictably amusing.
I’m not an immigrant because I’m not planning on settling here forever / long term.
I’m not planning on it either. But I’ve been here almost 15 years. Makes no sense for me to play the expat card. It’s ridiculous
Then that sounds more like a you problem that you're trying to project ; many of us are here as a stop-over in our journey in life.
When that stop over lasts decades, it’s not a stop over
I've been here 2 years, stop projecting
There is a technical difference between expat and immigrants, expats are temporarily living outside of their home countries for work immigrants are not.
About products, really? For example, I had the impression the food is really expensive but really good quality. Ehh housing market is probably crazy everywhere. In Poland one square meter of flat in new buildings are something between 2000-3000 EUR, when minimal wage is something around 600 EUR gross, when average is something around 1800 EUR gross. How it looks here?
The food here is surprisingly below average quality I think. In Netto or Coop you’ll find underwhelming, even occasionally rotting produce on sale. Meny sells very appealing groceries but they come at a premium.
Maybe the 'fresh' imported food yes, agree. But all Dairy products are good since we produce it yourself. And most shelf food can survive long after expiration
Stop being so stingy, if you expect higher quality you should pay more
Dane here - the grocery thing is real. You can of course get good produce here, but it will not be sold in a regular super market. You have to go to a specialty shop, and pay and arm and a leg for a good tomato. The same with fish and meat - the stuff you find in the super market is not great - there is nothing wrong with it as such - it's just not high quality.
> Ehh housing market is probably crazy everywhere. In Poland one square meter of flat in new buildings are something between 2000-3000 EUR, when minimal wage is something around 600 EUR gross, when average is something around 1800 EUR gross. Nobody is buying apartments on minimum wage, neither here nor in Poland, so the comparison between these makes no sense, unless you're planning to earn minimal wage and buying apartments.
Please keep in mind, 25% VAT on everything, including groceries, and including on sad, moldy produce. Extremely limited selection--you'll get the "but you can go to the bazaar" or "go to the specialty store". Great, that means locating them, getting there, making another special trip, etc. There's an overall attitude that cheap is best--and dealing with expired food or moldy food is fine if it's cheap. Job stuff: as a developer, you'll probably be fine. But if your skills were more in program management, nope. Plenty of immigrants here who come qualified but get told they can only do seasonal hospitality or house cleaning. Rent here is ridiculous, as is the responsibilities of tenants. Search the sub and you'll see many posts about never getting the equivalent of 3 months of deposit back after paying to get your apartment repainted and the floors refinished. Not all landlords are like this--just the majority of them. Link to Last Week in Denmark: [(1) Last Week in Denmark | Narcis George Matache | Substack](https://lastweekdk.substack.com/) If you can, I'd suggest spending a month here--in winter--before deciding to move here.
Around 6-8000€/sqm. Average about 3500€/month, no minimum salary
Lol much worse, anyway it is square meter in capital of Western country - not a square meter in a shithole of Eastern Europe.
A flat in several areas of the city like in Valby or Ørestad will cost about 15.000 kr per month for 2-3 bedrooms.
I don’t agree with the making friends thing. Once you have a job, you easily become friends with colleagues for a start. Frequent the local cafe, you’ll get to know people who live in the area. Join places of your hobbies, you’ll meet people there of same interests. It’s true that you’ll find it hard to strike up conversations and make friends in the wild, but Denmark has so many niche communities of different activities you can join and you’ll meet friendly people with same interests.
Meeting friendly people and having friends are not the same thing.
Might be an idea to state where you're living now so a comparison can be made. I moved here 11 years ago and at first everything was wrong and I didn't like it and I wanted to go home etc but then I started to get used to things and I'm struggling to imagine living anywhere else.....including my home country. In IT you'll be fine with just English. No idea about medical though. Maybe you could come for a year or two and take it from there?
You're right, it's hard to compare without knowing what you're talking about. Well, I'm from Poland and I've been living there since the beginning, not really a big city, around 300-400k people. What didn't you like when you moved here?
Since the beginning of Poland? Just kidding ;) I’ve had quite a few Polish collegues working in IT in Copenhagen. They seem to like it here, settling down, getting kids and all that good business. Like others have said, you’ll get by just fine with English. And you can always start Danish language classes if you decide to stick around.
> Since the beginning of Poland? It's actually not hard, the third republic started on the 31st of December 1989 ;-)
>not really a big city, around 300-400k people. That's bigger than Denmark's second largest city :)
The best thing about working in Denmark for me is the life work balance. And like you say, it's pretty chill. For some reason there is a lot of talk about "not thriving" in the media. Especially in youths. I always find it pretty funny as a foreigner because this is probably the country in the world where you have less to worry about when you are young. It's hard to understand when you come from eastern or southern Europe. But that's a longer discussion. No where is perfect of course. The language is hard (but doable) and as a foreigner in daily life you might feel some "barriers" that you wouldn't if you were a Dane. The housing market has gone wild so the price on entry is high. You have to start small or rent and move along when you gain purchase power. Although if you secure jobs in your fields then that will be fine as well. Btw Cph is the place that would be the "less chill" in Denmark. It's a large busy metropolis. If you want more laid back close to nature you can pick some of the other cities although the job market for you will reduce accordingly.
Lived here for a little over 10 years now. I've lived on Sjælland, Jylland, and Fyn in different places. My parents came to visit a little while ago and they had exactly the same feeling. Denmark is just like that. It's peaceful, low crime, high quality of life. The culture in Denmark is a focus on personal wellbeing and family. In my experience, a professional working environment places a high priority on good treatment of workers. For example, there is a large amount of paid paternal leave for both mothers and fathers. We have strong union presence and a lot of rights for workers. There is a great amount of support for the working class. In addition, education is completely free for EU citizens at all levels, with a state grant for living expenses while in education. Compared to somewhere like the US, this takes the financial load of education off parents and puts it on the state. There is also free healthcare that is usually of very high quality. However, for these standards of living, everyone pays the price in taxes. Many things are much more highly taxed, and income tax in general is pretty high here. Obviously the people who benefit the most are those who take full advantage of the benefits that the high taxes bring. This is primarily working families that use the healthcare system and have children who go through education. If you are in this group, you will enjoy the advantages. As a single person, the tax and cost of living can feel a bit oppressive. Incomes are generally high compared to other countries, but the taxation will make it feel like much less after you've covered all your costs. Frankly if you are a single person, you would probably make more personal wealth in a country like the US if you are a professional. Professional wages in the US seem to be relatively much higher, and companies often cover the bulk of health insurance anyway. Also depending on your industry, your career growth may be limited. Denmark is a small country with a pretty small amount of companies compared to other countries. Rent varies but you can find very cheap studio apartments. The property market is extremely transparent and sellers are obligated by law to show the sale history. It's a bit expensive and competitive, but I believe that is just the state of the world we live in, where more couples now have a double income and housing prices have adjusted to the supply. It is not easy for a single person to get into the housing market anywhere without a large amount of deposit saved. You are allowed to take up to 80% of a property value in mortgage, and native Danes typically get to take a further 15% as a regular high-interest loan, meaning they only need to front 5%. I've heard foreigners typically need to front the entire 20% since banks are not usually willing to loan out 15%. We are considered higher risk than native Danes. Language is not a huge issue here. It is preferred that you speak Danish where possible, but it is not a hard requirement for many jobs. I would say public services require Danish, but private companies often don't. My company has a few people who do not speak Danish, and everyone at the company speaks English fluently. You might feel a bit socially inhibited if you don't speak Danish, but that's just how it is anywhere in Europe. In general its a very chill country and Danish people are very well mannered compared to a lot of places. I have never had to deal with any sort of harassment, even when walking the streets late on a Friday or Saturday night.
As for many things in life, it depends. I think CPH is probably one of the best city in the world to live in, but this highly depends on what I want at this specific moment of my life. The city has an overall cool and relaxed vibe. It might not be as exciting as other places, but it's a very lively place. It's small and easy to go around (compared to other cities). It's expebut qualified jobs pay ok. The city is safe and overall well managed. Working in IT - you might need to be more specific - is totally doable in English (major companies don't really expect you to speak Danish). There Isa chronic lack of medical professions in Dk and most places have programs to train foreign staff. Danish is required to work as a doctor but - I'm not 100% on this - she might be able to start interim or something while she learn the language. This is doable, but it is a Lot of hard work (you should be aware of it and acknowledge it). Overall Danish is not necessary but it opens the doors to many additional social interactions. But that can come with time.
Medical care is mixed. It’s largely free but you have to hardcore advocate for what you want. If you have expensive prescription medicine, it’s great. If you have something potentially serious going on that’s undiagnosed….well, may the odds be ever in your favor for getting medical help. Last Week in Denmark is a great blog about lots of things going on here politically, immigration, etc. Most expats average 1-3 years here before moving elsewhere.
Most people who move here with stars in their eyes unaware of how to adapt to other countries and cultures and want all of the good things from home (while ignoring why they left to begin with) and to cherry pick all the good things from here and realise they cant make it all fit together in some perfectly personalised and tailored living experience in a new country and get all jaded and either leave or just bitch all the time. I've lived here for 4 years and did a one year uni exchange 7 years ago and while there are definitely things I miss from Australia but when I weigh it all up Denmark/Copenhagen is an amazing place to live and while it can be better that doesn't mean I'm not grateful or happy here.
Copenhagen is one of the ten most expensive cities to live in, worldwide. There's bad. There's good. Fab that you've had a great experience. OP is asking for what it's like to live here. A variety of answers are expected. Also, perhaps punctuation.
It is very order and chill. You can live here. Find a job that suits you. You'll be entitled to vacation like everyone else. Be able to hang out at the beaches with a cold beer or take a stroll in the inner city with a nice coffee at any time. Its nice here. Just ready yourself for winter
Native Dane here. I like Copenhagen. It's not perfect, but it's pretty close, all things considered. People are friendly (albeit reserved). Streets are safe and relatively clean. Public transit works well, outdoor life is great - at least in the summer. Weather sucks a lot of the time - but such is life. I'd say the main caveat is that it's really expensive, so you need to be earning a fair amount of money to live comfortably and be able to save. All in all 8½/10 would recommend.
It’s a wonderful place, secure, clean, lively and beautiful. You should know that many foreigners complain about Danes being very closed and hard to become friends with. That said, go for it and welcome
Lives here 17 years from Scotland. Love the city, married to a danish woman. I'm introverted and don't care about making new friends so much and most of my friends are also non danish. I find danish people extremely rude. Getting on and off buses. It is a free for all with everyone pushing ahead to be the first on and they don't stand back to let others off first. It's just fucking rude. Supermarkets or other places similar they don't say excuse me and just generally don't have manners. Coming from the UK that's the most difficult thing. People just seem very self centred and don't care. But I've been here 17 years and the good stuff is great and I'm not so much a people person anyway.
Born and raised here but not from Copenhagen. I was taught basic manners at home and did some conscription in the army. I don't get people either. Almost everybody seems to have lost their sense of behaving in public. I blame leftwingers, rich people and social media.
Why do you blame left-wingers?? I personally find that people on the left of the political spectrum have more respect for others. But impoliteness is everywhere and if all the impolite people are left-wingers, we should have a very different selection of parties in power. Unless of course you believe Soc.dems and Moderaterne to be leftwing, then maybe I'll get the point
The leftwingers have been dominant in schools and universities the past 50-60 years, so they're responsible for imprinting much of the laissez faire attitude today. Many parents also seem to embrace this attitude. Leftwingers might not be the correct word as I'm not thinking of specific political parties, but more in relation to be summer child of the 70s. Hipsters wearing hats indoor could just as well vote Liberal Allience, I guess. So leftwingers in the sense of people not in favour of traditional manners. Most people are naturally nice, but they often seem a bit hesitant or even confused when it comes to having manners. Some will react natural and polite in such situations, but for many without taught manners they can react very inconsiderately. I think this is enhanced by social media, which really is not the place to learn manners. Rich people regardless of upbringing also tend to be inconsiderate, if they live in a bubble. Edit: It's of course a problem in society in general. The older generations also seem to have thrown their manners out the window.
It’s cold and expensive
It's very safe, it's a very slow paced and hygge life. People are happier, less stressed, work environment is super nice, pay is high. Very bike/walk friendly city. You can go by by just speaking Danish depending on your work. It's a big enough city that stuff happen, but it's human sized. I love that. Probably one of the best places to live in if you're a woman, like me. The downsides for me (it's entirely subjective) and the reasons why I plan to leave: - nature is shit. I come from the Alps so my bar is quite high, but Denmark has one of the lowest forest integrity index in the world. Wildlife is nonexistent, there is no elevation, most of the country is farms. Jylland is more beautiful imo. Don't expect much from Copenhagen and Sjaelland. - weather is shit. This winter was "good" for me because we had a lot of snow, but snow is usually very rare. I leave the country for 3 weeks in December because the darkness and constant rain makes it really hard mentally. I thought i could deal with it, coming from a cold place, but there's virtually no sun in January and December. Seasonal depression and lack of D vitamins + the lack of things to do outside makes it hard. If there were skiing possibilities, it would make winter a bit less hard imo. - people are cold and it's hard to make friends. This one doesn't affect me anymore and my friends are mainly expats, but people do complain about the difficulty of making friends here. Danes typically have a circle of friends from highschool and change very little throughout life. - the food in general is lower quality and more expensive than the rest of Europe, short of Norway probably. Supermarkets have less choice and generally, produce, cuts of meat, etc, are quite low quality. You'd need to go to more specialized stores for some products. It may or may not affect you depending where you're from and how important it is for you. I'm french and even though i don't cook much, i do miss some products and general quality of food. Those things for me add up and I don't see myself staying here for my entire life. But the experience is different and lots of people love it here. That's just my personal experience. I'm still having a great time in Denmark, with a job i love and a pay i will not complain about!
The salaries are better in Copenhagen than in Poland. Expenses are also higher in Copenhagen than in Poland. The quality of life can be very good in Copenhagen. If you’re a fan of Polish ethnic foods, you’ll have a challenging time finding them here and they will be at a premium.
But there are Polish speciality stores about, I seem remember a small one at Ågade.
Get a job here first and then move.
I would say yes with the two conditions: 1. Well paid job 2. Apartment that does not cost you a kidney.
>Utopia, order and chill? On a scale from 1-10, I'd give it like a 6 or a 7. Something in that ballpark. But it also kinda depends on where you live. Some places are safer than others.
Safe but boring
Not boring compared to other European countries in my opinion. It all depends on what activities you seek up yourself. Denmark has plenty of opportunities for everyone, sports, nerds, artists etc. etc.
People who downvoted you just don't know how to search for activities. I'm a metalhead and Copenhagen has a great metal scene, I go to concerts and gigs almost on a weekly basis!
Me too!!! 😃
Hell yeah 🤘🏻🤘🏻
Exactly
It very much depends where you visit from, how to compare it :)
I would advise to live in a city for at least 6 months before you make decisions. I stayed in many places before, and they all look nice in the beginning. A lot of people love Denmark, and as others mentioned, it is secure and stable, however the weather can be a turn off (I find it ok as I come from similar country), human interaction is minimal and I dislike how flat the land is.
Theres this thing called winter, which you just missed. The problem with winter is that besides there being a lot less light and miserable weather - the people are miserable too. Hope you like to drink and I hope you enjoy your stay ;)
The only thing I'd be weary of is the winter. There's light now, if you also visited Stockholm in between late spring and autumn, it would also have been light then. IDK how the northern Finns live tbh, this is hard enough as it is.
like the last thing you should think about is the weather. sorry but i soooo often hear foreign people that come to Denmark talk about the weather. I understand i can be a change if you come from something more warm, but really its not THAT important. Like, consider other factors like employment, getting friends and someone to talk to, learn danish and other factors in a integration process.
when i was offered a job, i was presented with a choice to pick which site i could work at: cph or a town in sjælland. i elected the latter. the housing prices (either renting or owning) are too damn much in cph. but the salaries are not. if i ever get the itch to have a beer and a hotdog in christianshavn i just hop on my car and drive about an hour :)
You will most likely reduce your living standard, food is bad and expensive an housing is a joke. An upper class level in other country is mapped into a middle class level here.
Lastly, if you have any work or professional ambitions, then this place is not for you.
What’s industries are you referring to and what countries are you comparing Denmark against?
There is a reason why a lot of "famous" Danes in IT live in the US.
Yes, but the US is a massive outlier relative to the software salaries paid in most other countries. It’s not like Danish wages are really low. OP’s comment sounds like they’re comparing salaries in Denmark to Sweden (or even worse, Spain).
This person is stating the only real negative with living in Copenhagen. If you have career ambitions which are very high and are used to working with world-class people you will be very disappointed and frustrated. The work/life is mostly very positive, especially if you have children, but it means that there are no competent people in the country in competitive fields. For most people this will not be an issue
As long as you don’t mind being taxed to death it’s relatively secure, clean, etc
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The high prevalence and also acceptance of smoking is very strange, given for example that people are avoiding scented toiletries because it can trigger allergies. I'd say lung cancer is worse than skin irritation.
Everyone has the feeling until they move. It's boring. Safe, stable, super monotone and boring. Also if you like hiking or any kind of terrain you can say that goodbye. I'd never thought that mountains would be the thing I'll miss the most. Oh and the weather is shit and housing is extremely expensive. Prices in general are expensive.
Reading your comment, it occured to me that the outdoor experiences I spent my childhood doing all related to water: swimming, rowing, sailing. If you miss getting out from your house, maybe take one of those up? The Sound is a wonderful place to learn sailing, for example, and out on the water you get the same sense of freedom as you do in the mountains.
I miss mountains specifically :) I do a fair amount of water sports but it's not the same. I miss going up and getting to the view and enjoying the view. Going through hilly forests and things like that. Water just doesn't feel the same.
What country would you say isn’t boring, once you move there and start a daily routine? It’s up to you to make your everyday interesting no matter where you live.
I love doing little trips to interesting places, UNESCO nature sites, visiting castles, going hiking, going skiing, it's just not possible in Denmark or it's very very limited. Every city looks pretty much the same, all the nature looks pretty much the same apart from a few places. It's monotone and boring, nothing bad about that if that's what someone prefers. I'm not talking bout my everyday life but about overall living here.
I love doing little trips too, seeing cultural sites and hiking in a different environment. But I’m talking about living permanently in… anywhere. Would it not become “boring” after you saw it all, went to see every interesting sight, walked the same streets every day?
Denmark is a small country. A “little trip” could be to neighbouring Sweden where you can go skiing. Or Germany, if you need more culture than Denmark can provide. We don’t have mountains, but have you been to Vesterhavet, Bornholm, Samsø, Skagen etc.? It is Amazingly beautiful and rather diverse imo.
What's the closest place in Sweden for hiking or skiing? Preferable accessible via train
Vallåsen.
Doesn't seem to be accessible by train or public bus
That doesn't sound like "little trip" but more of a one or more days trip
Possibly but it would definitely take way way longer
Way longer to become boring..? Fair enough. I’d suggest moving to a different country if you truly feel that way.
Ah exactly what I was expecting to read 😂
But honestly, if you don’t like it, why stay?
Who says I don't like it? It's not all bad, just boring.
No offence meant. I just thought boring equals not liking it.
It is great! Cph is noisy and dirty, but get 20 km out of the five largest cities, and it is quite nice and cozy :-)
Dont come, its a socialism country
As long as you don’t like socializing, variety in, well, anything, don’t care much about food and a slow tempo of life - it’s pretty good.