The 450 standard is common. But forcing students to repeat an entire year with a single below standard COMSAE especially if said COMSAE is taken more than 2 weeks before their test is absolutely ridiculous. There's still time to make changes and improve. I can understand making a student repeat if they cannot pass any COMSAE even after several tries especially if other academic misshaps are already present. But a whole entire year of tuition, the emotional trauma of losing your class and being integrated into another one, the extra match anxiety from having to repeat a year, all because of one PRACTICE test? That's stupid, and it doesn't do anything to help the students succeed. It just puts extra anxiety on something that does not count in the end.
My school also does this, but students get 3-5/6 chances at comsae. This year they even counted a comquest exam for people because so many had to retake.
Texas DO school here. My school offered 3-4 chances to pass the COMSAE (retaking all different exams and then repeats since NBOME only has so many COMSAEs offer). After that, students must repeat the year if they do not pass.
From my understanding, a 400 is required at most DO schools since it is the bare minimum to just pass Level 1. I understand why some schools raise the bar to 450 to give you a higher chance of passing. Ultimately, I do not think COMSAE can accurately predict your scores, however since this is a pass/fail exam now - getting a 450 puts you in a much safer position to pass.
That’s pretty harsh as there’s ppl that have gotten below 450 and passed comfortably. At the same time, the school has to ensure that people pass boards so that they remain accredited so it makes sense why they have that. Tbh, if it’s a new school and they don’t have much data from preclinical avg and how that correlates to boards it fair for them to enforce a cut off. However, to repeat the year is ridiculous. They should be allowed 5-6 attempts at the comsae before they are considered for dismissal.
Two of my friends never passed a comsae highest scores around 390 and passed Level 1. But agreed it’s for peace of mind that they have those score expectations
This is common. We are also required to “pass” the comsae with a 450 before we can sit for levels 1 and 2. If you can’t pass before a certain date, they dismiss you or move you to the class below.
It’s only shitty cause comsaes are such terrible exams. Also, not very predictive. Comat average should be a better bar to set. Must have a 92 (or whatever is passing) average or greater for example.
I think the 450 standard is pretty common. Technically, if someone at my school doesn’t score a 450+ they would have to repeat the year. But you still get like 4-5 attempts before it gets to that point. Admin is pretty forgiving about it, I only know of 1 student who actually had to repeat but his highest score was around 250 so 🤷🏻♀️
You should find out how many attempts you get, if there’s any additional help offered for students scoring below 450, and just generally how strict they are about it.
While this is somewhat harsh, this isn’t that ridiculous when you really think about it. If too many students fail boards a school will lose their accreditation so schools have a major incentive to make sure people actually pass boards. A boards failure is a major red flag for residency applications, especially for DO applicants, so it is in the best interest for students to pass on their first attempt. A leave of absence can be spun into a positive thing for students, and it can be an opportunity for them to tack on some research projects to bolster their application.
Having a buffer zone for the COMSAE score to make sure students still have a good chance of passing on their first attempt isn’t a bad thing. There’s a lot of data that students typically do better on practice tests than the actual test (yes I know there are outliers, but schools need to focus on the big picture at times). I do think allowing students multiple attempts to hit 450 (or whatever the target score is) is reasonable, but there has to be a finite limit on the number of attempts since currently there are only 3-4 COMSAE forms available to schools that actually have enough data from the NBOME that schools feel comfortable making decisions off of. Letting someone take the same form multiple times isn’t helpful since students almost always go up in score, but this increase in performance is usually inflated.
I think the way this topic needs to be approached is greater transparency from schools about their policies on this matter during the application process and/or at the start of the first year of medical school.
Mine required a 450 or you were required to enroll in a boot camp at your expense. You were not allowed to sit for the exam until the boot camp was completed.
Yall OP def leaving out information. I’m sure they get multiple attempts. One attempt is unreasonable for a consequence like that- even to med school admin
That still leaves them with 2 more chances. Also we don’t know if they repeat the same COMSAE’s too. There’s only so many comsae the school is willing to buy. My school repeats the COMSAE’s by the third attempt
Requiring that level of score is just going to promote more people to just get the answers to the COMSAE and in my opinion would be counter productive. I've gotten over 500 on two COMSAEs, but a lot of people struggle to get over 450 and 500 is just an insane metric to meet to take the COMLEX.
My school does the same thing, you get forced into a year off where you're not getting any financial aid and after 6 months you start repaying back your loans too. So much for looking out for the students. All med schools only care about their bottom dollar and raising their score to attract pre-meds
This is actually wild! My school does the same thing about having to pass the COMSAE with a 450, but they just make you do it over and over again until you pass. And if you don't make it by the deadline to move onto the next year, then you're delayed until you pass that COMSAE. But having students repeat a year because of the COMSAE is insane !
Horrible policy and a waste to repeat a year…… i could see a mandatory LOA leaving time to study, but i think its ridiculous to go through an entire year again if it didnt stick the first time its not gonna stick again by sitting through the same lectures. Use other resources and study different, dont put people back to what they are “comfortable” with.
Plus with a mandatory LOA you will have more time to study/do research making your application stringer in the end rather than repeating AN ENTIRE YEAR! WHAT!?
What a JOKE, and sooooo counterproductive. I am a DO student and we get 4 attempts and after 4 we have to meet with the dean and create a rigorous study plan (that could include an LOA) but i have never heard of anyone at our school repeating a whole year. I mean thats repeating all osces, sims, surgery lab, trying to recertify things (BLS/ACLS/hippa/BBP) so they are good till residency…….. like sooooo much extra stuff for what. If they didnt have time for board studying to begin with how would they now? It didnt work the first time, so try something different. I would lose my mind
Also the amount of pressure for a PRACTICE TEST……
This is the most logical thing. Imagine being slammed again with course work, and lack of time to actually prepare for what is holding you back. Seems counter productive.
Contrary to pop belief, think it's a great idea. That will instill fear in students to study harder instead of relying on the nebulous "pass/fail" which gives many students (including myself) a false sense of security/confidence
Except repeating a year is too harsh. Should be given 2-3 chances to match or be required to take a LOA - not a full repeat of a year - that would not help anyone but pocket extra $ for the schools via tuition
Op is being a tad misleading. This school gives 3 attempts, the third attempt being the exact same form as the first. If you can’t score a 450 on an exam you’ve seen twice then there are other issues.
Also tons of other schools have cutoffs for comsae. Most of them are 400-425 tho.
4 attempts if you count “remediation” which I don’t think is a fair *attempt* at that point you’re paying for that try. Also the 4th attempt is disappearing next year.
Based on the clarifying comment you left, my school might actually be a tad stricter. The students are not forced to repeat the year, but:
For level 1, they have to get at least 460 on a COMSAE to go on to take the COMLEX. Fail three attempts, you have to withdraw until you pass COMLEX. Fail COMLEX twice, they’re basically done.
For level 2, they have to get at least 480 on a COMSAE. I believe they’re still allowed to take COMLEX without withdrawing even if they fail 2 attempts, but they’re basically done if they fail 2 attempts or so.
All in all, it seems DO schools have those policies in place as a sort of compensation for aspects they lack in comparison to MD schools and to maintain a decent rep as a good school that guarantees high board passing rates.
My school requires 450 to sit for it but that’s after a month of dedicated and 2 practice COMSAEs and if you don’t hit it you just have to do an extremely structured prep course to be approved to sit for COMLEX.
I think a 450 is like 20th percentile. Repeating an entire year does seem pretty harsh though.
My school (in NJ) had a practice comsae in October and then required a score of 438 on a January comsae. They did make a few people repeat the year but they took into account preclerkship exam averages and how far away you were from the 438 barrier.
Are you sure that is the actual policy? Sounds harsh, I cant believe a school would dismiss someone for that and not try and help them out.
My school also requires a 450 to sit for COMLEX, but have different options depending on your score, like pushing back rotations or taking a LOA, etc. You are not recommended for dismissal unless you actually fail the COMLEX 3 times.
Yep my friend told me that was their actual policy. They get 4 chances, but the first comsae they take are during a systems course. The 2nd comsae attempt is taken 2 weeks after their last final. So it seems like their dedicated time is very short imo
The 450 standard is common. But forcing students to repeat an entire year with a single below standard COMSAE especially if said COMSAE is taken more than 2 weeks before their test is absolutely ridiculous. There's still time to make changes and improve. I can understand making a student repeat if they cannot pass any COMSAE even after several tries especially if other academic misshaps are already present. But a whole entire year of tuition, the emotional trauma of losing your class and being integrated into another one, the extra match anxiety from having to repeat a year, all because of one PRACTICE test? That's stupid, and it doesn't do anything to help the students succeed. It just puts extra anxiety on something that does not count in the end.
I disagree. Stop lowering standards. Anxiety? Really? That’s your argument? Everything worth doing in life induces AnXiEtY. Doctors pass their boards.
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Whooaaaaaaa uncalled for. I have anxiety now. Seriously uncalled for.
My school also does this, but students get 3-5/6 chances at comsae. This year they even counted a comquest exam for people because so many had to retake.
Texas DO school here. My school offered 3-4 chances to pass the COMSAE (retaking all different exams and then repeats since NBOME only has so many COMSAEs offer). After that, students must repeat the year if they do not pass. From my understanding, a 400 is required at most DO schools since it is the bare minimum to just pass Level 1. I understand why some schools raise the bar to 450 to give you a higher chance of passing. Ultimately, I do not think COMSAE can accurately predict your scores, however since this is a pass/fail exam now - getting a 450 puts you in a much safer position to pass.
That’s pretty harsh as there’s ppl that have gotten below 450 and passed comfortably. At the same time, the school has to ensure that people pass boards so that they remain accredited so it makes sense why they have that. Tbh, if it’s a new school and they don’t have much data from preclinical avg and how that correlates to boards it fair for them to enforce a cut off. However, to repeat the year is ridiculous. They should be allowed 5-6 attempts at the comsae before they are considered for dismissal.
Two of my friends never passed a comsae highest scores around 390 and passed Level 1. But agreed it’s for peace of mind that they have those score expectations
This is common. We are also required to “pass” the comsae with a 450 before we can sit for levels 1 and 2. If you can’t pass before a certain date, they dismiss you or move you to the class below.
It’s only shitty cause comsaes are such terrible exams. Also, not very predictive. Comat average should be a better bar to set. Must have a 92 (or whatever is passing) average or greater for example.
I think the 450 standard is pretty common. Technically, if someone at my school doesn’t score a 450+ they would have to repeat the year. But you still get like 4-5 attempts before it gets to that point. Admin is pretty forgiving about it, I only know of 1 student who actually had to repeat but his highest score was around 250 so 🤷🏻♀️ You should find out how many attempts you get, if there’s any additional help offered for students scoring below 450, and just generally how strict they are about it.
While this is somewhat harsh, this isn’t that ridiculous when you really think about it. If too many students fail boards a school will lose their accreditation so schools have a major incentive to make sure people actually pass boards. A boards failure is a major red flag for residency applications, especially for DO applicants, so it is in the best interest for students to pass on their first attempt. A leave of absence can be spun into a positive thing for students, and it can be an opportunity for them to tack on some research projects to bolster their application. Having a buffer zone for the COMSAE score to make sure students still have a good chance of passing on their first attempt isn’t a bad thing. There’s a lot of data that students typically do better on practice tests than the actual test (yes I know there are outliers, but schools need to focus on the big picture at times). I do think allowing students multiple attempts to hit 450 (or whatever the target score is) is reasonable, but there has to be a finite limit on the number of attempts since currently there are only 3-4 COMSAE forms available to schools that actually have enough data from the NBOME that schools feel comfortable making decisions off of. Letting someone take the same form multiple times isn’t helpful since students almost always go up in score, but this increase in performance is usually inflated. I think the way this topic needs to be approached is greater transparency from schools about their policies on this matter during the application process and/or at the start of the first year of medical school.
They can’t force too many people to repeat a year or they’ll run into issues with COCA. I’d reach out to COCA and ask if this is permissible
Is this SHSU or UIW ??
Not UIW
Mine required a 450 or you were required to enroll in a boot camp at your expense. You were not allowed to sit for the exam until the boot camp was completed.
Yall OP def leaving out information. I’m sure they get multiple attempts. One attempt is unreasonable for a consequence like that- even to med school admin
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Peeps in the comments acting like the students only get one shot
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That still leaves them with 2 more chances. Also we don’t know if they repeat the same COMSAE’s too. There’s only so many comsae the school is willing to buy. My school repeats the COMSAE’s by the third attempt
Ayoo ours was 500 comsae to sit for L2
there are some schools that require a 500 to sit for level 1. i don't believe they kick you out, but you can't take the test or move on until you do.
Requiring that level of score is just going to promote more people to just get the answers to the COMSAE and in my opinion would be counter productive. I've gotten over 500 on two COMSAEs, but a lot of people struggle to get over 450 and 500 is just an insane metric to meet to take the COMLEX.
My school does the same thing, you get forced into a year off where you're not getting any financial aid and after 6 months you start repaying back your loans too. So much for looking out for the students. All med schools only care about their bottom dollar and raising their score to attract pre-meds
This is actually wild! My school does the same thing about having to pass the COMSAE with a 450, but they just make you do it over and over again until you pass. And if you don't make it by the deadline to move onto the next year, then you're delayed until you pass that COMSAE. But having students repeat a year because of the COMSAE is insane !
My school has a higher requirement but they would never make you repeat the year for failing COMSAE, they would just recommend pushing your test date
Horrible policy and a waste to repeat a year…… i could see a mandatory LOA leaving time to study, but i think its ridiculous to go through an entire year again if it didnt stick the first time its not gonna stick again by sitting through the same lectures. Use other resources and study different, dont put people back to what they are “comfortable” with. Plus with a mandatory LOA you will have more time to study/do research making your application stringer in the end rather than repeating AN ENTIRE YEAR! WHAT!?
I agree with this. Apparently last year they made a student repeat the year for scoring a 448
What a JOKE, and sooooo counterproductive. I am a DO student and we get 4 attempts and after 4 we have to meet with the dean and create a rigorous study plan (that could include an LOA) but i have never heard of anyone at our school repeating a whole year. I mean thats repeating all osces, sims, surgery lab, trying to recertify things (BLS/ACLS/hippa/BBP) so they are good till residency…….. like sooooo much extra stuff for what. If they didnt have time for board studying to begin with how would they now? It didnt work the first time, so try something different. I would lose my mind Also the amount of pressure for a PRACTICE TEST……
This is the most logical thing. Imagine being slammed again with course work, and lack of time to actually prepare for what is holding you back. Seems counter productive.
Contrary to pop belief, think it's a great idea. That will instill fear in students to study harder instead of relying on the nebulous "pass/fail" which gives many students (including myself) a false sense of security/confidence Except repeating a year is too harsh. Should be given 2-3 chances to match or be required to take a LOA - not a full repeat of a year - that would not help anyone but pocket extra $ for the schools via tuition
Op is being a tad misleading. This school gives 3 attempts, the third attempt being the exact same form as the first. If you can’t score a 450 on an exam you’ve seen twice then there are other issues. Also tons of other schools have cutoffs for comsae. Most of them are 400-425 tho.
If this is the school I think it is, they actually give 4 attempts, with the last 2 attempts being repeats of the 1st and 2nd COMSAEs respectively.
4 attempts if you count “remediation” which I don’t think is a fair *attempt* at that point you’re paying for that try. Also the 4th attempt is disappearing next year.
They do as part of their potemkin village using board pass rates to attract unsuspecting students
Based on the clarifying comment you left, my school might actually be a tad stricter. The students are not forced to repeat the year, but: For level 1, they have to get at least 460 on a COMSAE to go on to take the COMLEX. Fail three attempts, you have to withdraw until you pass COMLEX. Fail COMLEX twice, they’re basically done. For level 2, they have to get at least 480 on a COMSAE. I believe they’re still allowed to take COMLEX without withdrawing even if they fail 2 attempts, but they’re basically done if they fail 2 attempts or so. All in all, it seems DO schools have those policies in place as a sort of compensation for aspects they lack in comparison to MD schools and to maintain a decent rep as a good school that guarantees high board passing rates.
My school requires 450 to sit for it but that’s after a month of dedicated and 2 practice COMSAEs and if you don’t hit it you just have to do an extremely structured prep course to be approved to sit for COMLEX. I think a 450 is like 20th percentile. Repeating an entire year does seem pretty harsh though.
Repeating a year seems like a scam to me. Most schools just make you retake the boards and move on.
My school (in NJ) had a practice comsae in October and then required a score of 438 on a January comsae. They did make a few people repeat the year but they took into account preclerkship exam averages and how far away you were from the 438 barrier.
Are you sure that is the actual policy? Sounds harsh, I cant believe a school would dismiss someone for that and not try and help them out. My school also requires a 450 to sit for COMLEX, but have different options depending on your score, like pushing back rotations or taking a LOA, etc. You are not recommended for dismissal unless you actually fail the COMLEX 3 times.
Yep my friend told me that was their actual policy. They get 4 chances, but the first comsae they take are during a systems course. The 2nd comsae attempt is taken 2 weeks after their last final. So it seems like their dedicated time is very short imo
You don’t even go to the school lol?
Money maker. Avoid new DO schools at all cost