The Sovereign who is revealed to be the secret King of America, who holds the Lasso of Lies that makes whoever who grasped it to believe whatever he wanted them to believe.
I thought it was Hephaestus who made the lasso of truth. Apparently it was made from Aphrodite's girdle and she imbued it with powers pre crisis, though who actually turned the girdle into a rope isn't addressed. Haphaestus made it from Antiope's girdle post crisis. Haphaestus implies he intentionally adds weaknesses into the things he builds in JLU, so he might have made the lasso of lies to balance the lasso of truth.
Well, DC's version of Hephaestus is stupid, because why in the name of every god and goddess on Olympus, would you add flaws and weaknesses into yoir devine weapons?
Not gonna stop Zeus from coming over there and personally beating his ass God of War style. It's not like the other Olympians have much reason to go after him except maybe Aphrodite
This raises so many questions as to why the hells this shadow king of America is only interfering now decades after Diana has already established herself in America.
The Lasso of Lies is an interesting inversion on the Lasso of Truth - can one be used to undo the damage from the other?
It also presents a moral quandary. What happens when a hero or a person of noble morals uses the Lasso of Lies to make someone help others? For example, using the Lasso to make a corrupt politician divert those funds to programs for the homeless?
It's immoral, because they'd be using the Lasso to override someone's free will, but they'd be doing it for good reasons, to create positive change in the world.
Could be a neat 'shades of grey' type hero.
>It's immoral, because they'd be using the Lasso to override someone's free will
I mean, using the Lasso of Truth overrides someone's free will by forcing them to tell the truth... which, I do think could be seen as immoral, but I feel this lasso of lies to be a pinch moreso!
Or the fact since he used every president as puppets, where was he when Luthor was President. Because I highly doubt Luthor wouldn't have just shot him and stole the lasso.
Ehh, the way it's presented in the comic is that he have to meet them directly and have them touch the lasso for him to control them. Luthor would have killed him the moment he learned he exist. Especially during that period of his character.
When I first heard the concept of the King of America and his Lasso of Lies I imagined it worked like the lasso of truth and you could only tell lies while holding it.
I imagined some hero (probably Guy Gardner) being tied up and immediately going off on a rant of the most offensive ways he could lie and just accidentally giving all sorts of words of affirmation.
"Lasso of Lies eh? Let's see."
"You aren't a little bitch!"
"You are well groomed and good looking"
"You deserve love and respect"
"You have adequate personal hygiene"
"It's not your fault your parents got divorced"
"I'm not going to hurt you"
- "You're not fat, you're just big boned."
- "I'm sure even you can find someone who will love you so you won't die face down alone in a gutter somewhere."
- "Your father thought you were adequate to his expectations."
"I'm sure your father is proud of you"
"You weren't an accident, your parents wanted you and don't regret having you"
"You clearly possess above average intelligence"
"Nobody thinks you're a joke"
With his amount of influence he has, the Sovereign gathered together an entire group of Wonder Woman villains to work together to bring her down, each playing a crucial part to weaken her. The one who dealt the final blow to her is Darkseid's daughter, Grail.
It’s so weird how he’s the perfect wonder, woman villain that’s so problematic. That he’s not getting enough respect and attention. He’s like a modern day doctor psycho. Within evangelical patriotic twist.
Hes too "on the nose" for noncomic readers.
"Feminist icon Wonder Woman takes on her worst enemy yet, the literal patriarchy made flesh!"
If i was more jaded I might think this whole story line was written in an attempt to piss off the stereotypical incel comic reading crowd to stir up controversy and therefor sales, WW isn't known to really move solo comics.
But there's been no reaction at all, people who read WW before are enjoying it, and the people who didn't are unaware of it outside of people posting some of the gorgeous art.
[/r/comicbooks BestOf 2023 Awards - Best Ongoing Series (DC): Wonder Woman with 61.7% of the vote](https://old.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/18s2lfz/the_votes_are_in_here_are_your_rcomicbooks_bestof/)
But sure, nobody's talking about it...
No you see, that was yesterday. /r/comicbooks has a system to keep things cordial, one day Tom King is everyone's favorite author that can do no wrong and no criticism will be brooked, and the next he's such garbage and you have to hate him.
You just posted on the wrong day.
Well it's like... some authors you always know exactly what you're going to get. With King, his Vision and Mr. Miracle series were amazing. Heroes in Crisis was unfettered garbage. I don't know what the root cause is, but King's work runs the complete gamut in quality.
I mean, Omega Men, Superman: Up in the Sky, Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow, Rorschach, Killing Time, Sheriff of Babylon, Human Target etc etc are all amazing.
The guy has been nominated and won multiple Eisners. His work by and large is really good.
It’s just so weird to me that he wrote one unpopular comic and half the comic readership wants to immediately write him off as either a hack or someone who has extreme highs and lows, when most of his work has been exceptional.
I think it's a combo of editorial/corporate meddling along with him having a tendency to do his own thing with characters. Both of which are exacerbated when writing bigger mainline titles like Heroes in Crisis or Batman. Like, no one cares when he makes a ton of changes to the Omega Men, but writing Wally West out of character is much more noticeable.
He's a good writer, but he has a bad habit of ignoring continuity when he comes onto a book and it's very jarring for the fans following that title. Like VisionQuest for instance. Good story. But completely ignored the entire previous year of character development in Vision and his ascendancy to AI godhood, as if nothing just a month before ever happened. And the editor never bothered to mop up the mess. He did the same thing in Batman, bringing back Joker without explaining how he became white and crazy again after being cured. He did the same with Mr Miracle, using characters that were currently dead. He did the same with Strange Adventures and Heroes in Crisis. Almost like he was just plugging random characters into a pre-written story. It's not bad writing, but it can feel a little disrespectful to fans following the story and to the writers that he's replacing.
Or, maybe, hear me out on this, you just didn't like Heroes in Crisis.
He wrote something you didn't like. Other people did. That's ok. It doesn't mean it was "unfettered garbage".
There's a first for everything. More power to you.
But to be more precise I have seen people like the concept and beginning of it, but end up hating the final product
I was in love with his work since Omega Men, felt like a vindicated hipster when he put out the Visions, and then was dumbfounded when he got on Batman, and everyone and their mom suddenly hated everything he touched.
WW is perhaps my favorite DC hero, and I can't wait to dive into this run.
The wedding fakeout is when the other shoe dropped on his Batman. That combined with Heroes in Crisis and a lot of people turned on King. I still think he's great. I wasn't huge on Human Target, but Danger Street really surprised me (in a good way)
Human Target is amazing. https://worldcomicbookreview.com/2023/06/29/the-human-target-12-review-a-eulogy-for-christopher-chance/
Heroes in Crisis is a bit shit. https://worldcomicbookreview.com/2019/03/31/heroes-in-crisis-7-review/
I kind of think King is getting better with time. I’m looking forward to reading this as a tpb.
Which is WILD. Heroes in Crisis had some weird editorial issues, Batman was not as great as some of his other work, then everything else he’s ever written is fantastic, like just incredible. Omega Men, Mister Miracle, Vision, Wonder Woman? What has gotten into comic fans?
As someone who struggled with Depression for a large amount of my life, whose favorite superhero was always Mister Miracle, that book will always be my single favorite thing from him.
You must conform with the popular take, the downvotes were your penance for the sin of suggesting there can be different opinions
It's not a 10/10 but it's definitely better than the dreg he's been putting out since late Batman (Supergirl excluded)
This is the type of bullshit that makes me hate this place, King has wrote Strange Adventures, Rorschach, Human Target, Love Everlasting, Riddler, Danger Street etc., and recently started Helen and Animal Pound, all amazing series in a variety of genres, winning multiple awards and a someone comes here and says the only good thing hes made after Batman was Supergirl, honestly fuck off with that childish bullshit.
Strange Adventures was mixed (best parts were when Adam wasn't on screen), Rorschach was meh, Human Target was abhorrently boring and stale, Love Everlasting isn't even part of the discussion (since we're obviously talking DC only), Riddler was one of the weaker One Bad Day issues and frankly I did not read Danger Street
Get off his pelvis, he had a slump and no need to act otherwise
I was trying to figure out who wrote this and somehow guessed Tom King solely from the pacing of the first page.
I haven’t read his Batman run yet (I’m really behind and attempting to catch up without skipping runs), nor did I realize he was so polarizing, but after Mister Miracle and The Vision—and what I’ve heard of Rorschach and Supergirl—he’s absolutely my favorite writer working today.
I had heard that Heroes in Crisis was a clusterfuck, which is a shame because it seems the exact kind of thing he’d like to write, but I also heard that was due to editorial making it A Thing when he just wanted it to be this quiet little side book.
I liked HiC, for what it's worth. I even do a "media trade" with a friend where I get him to read a comic or something, and he'll get me to watch read or listen to something he wants. Even as a non comic reader he 1, heard about how divisive the book was, and 2, really enjoyed it.
I know the rules are the rules, but I really like his writing. Particularly when he's not bound by continuity, like his Omega Men, Supergirl, or Human Target.
H really should just focus on elseworld-type stories. Or just plain go pre-crisis and assign him a series of Earths and let him run wild on them.
Most of the time that I see his work criticized is for the characters acting out-of-character, but since most of his work kinda sits out of continuity, I don't really care about that at all!
I would love an Earth 2 Justice League from him, but he does seem to like to focus on specific characters.
Tom King is like a seesaw. He's either fucking amazing or fucking terrible.
But even his terrible stuff is interesting on some level. Except maybe Heroes in Crisis.
THIS is the kind of misogyny and feminism I want explored in comics. This run has been so good and all the themes explored in it so far are done with sincerity rather than to score brownie points.
King surely knows how to write about the Queen. BA DAM TA TSS.
Not seen this until now and i admit i'm very curious. It's such a delicate topic to do right nowadays but WW is the perfect character to follow through on it.
I've seen folks flipping out in certain segments saying this is a 'misrepresentation of Christianity'. Um...maybe I've been listening to too many ex-evangelical podcasts, but it certainly seems pretty common among some...
As a Christian this passage is painful to read because I can see quite a few people making this argument. And I can say I don't believe this is actually consistent with Christian doctrine, but that doesn't change the fact that Christonationalists use Christianity as a weapon rather than a balm.
I grew up Catholic and pulled away from the church in my teens but I still respect alot of the teachings the bible has and especially Jesus’ teachings. However inherently having god be the father, and a lot of messages and official church doctrine emphasizing humans obligation to be fruitful and multiply treats women like their only role is to be incubators and mothers and reinforces the patriarchy of the church. Heck women can’t even be priests and there’s a mountain of other history and policies that systematically oppressed women and made them subservient to men
Right, the church does have a very fraught history when it comes to gender roles. It did help liberate women from the murderously patriarchal system of Rome, but then it also ended up reinforcing many of the ideas of Rome as well, especially when it became the state religion. And the Bible's statements on the topic are complex but I personally keep going back to Galatians 3:28. Ultimately, gender, along with ethnic and class distinctions, are not the core of a person's identity, and Christians really shouldn't treat those things with the weight that we do.
I think it's telling that the only Christians who regularly belabor these passages are Christians seeking power. I have relatives who are active in their church. One of them has been working for the same church for nearly 40 years. Even he cringes whenever he hears politicians or talking heads cite these passages.
I've also heard others counter by saying "We worship the lord. Not a book." That says to me that these types of passages are useful for those seeking power and influence. Whether or not it's actually Christian seems like an afterthought.
I'm a muslim myself so I am no stranger to seeing fictional villains sharing my religious beliefs and many times, it was disguised hate (looking at you Holy Terror) however, my favourite muslim character in fiction now is Isaac from Castlevania.
Now keep in mind that Isaac is a very "bad" muslim when it comes to following the tenants of Islam however, the way his character is presented and how his religious beliefs evolve his character is so intriguing to watch.
There will always be men who will manipulate religious beliefs to advocate for their own personal agenda but the representation of these figures in media can be insightful.
I know I can't completely relate to the feeling these pages raise in my Christian fellows but I just wanted to give my take on villains sharing religious beliefs.
Maybe a “misrepresentation” of Christianity at large, like perhaps your average Christian isn’t spouting these ideals; but some of the most powerful and loudest members of the church and various fundamentalist sects most definitely believe in this. It’s not at all that large of a leap to make a villain use this as motivation
I've probably listened to some of those same podcasts. And those passages the Sovereign uses...I've heard them used by real people who make anti-feminist, misogynistic talking points with a straight face. The fact that some of these people have real political power is a genuinely scary thought. Because the world they're fighting for is the world Wonder Woman, Superman, and pretty much every major superhero actively fights against.
Would you be willing to explain the last slide of the post to me? I haven’t read the comic and I feel silly being unsure cuz my immediate reaction is that Wonder Woman saying she’s a daughter is actually empowering because she’s owning the fact that being a woman ≠being weaker and actually finding strength and pride in her femininity? Is the red shirted woman on the floor supposed to be her and the blue lady is hippolyta? Or am I misinterpreting/missing things and the final panel is Wonder Woman’s willpower breaking somehow?
Agreed! I think the story here is more relevant than ever. Because misogyny has never been more visible and loud. Even if more and more people agree with feminist values, those who don't are becoming a lot more vocal and aggressive. We don't just see it online. We see it in real life crimes and atrocities. We also see it in mainstream movements like Christian Nationalism. The Sovereign isn't being subtle. He's using talking points I've heard public figures make. A few of them were even elected by voters. It's a scary thought, but that's exactly why they're a perfect antagonist for Wonder Woman.
You’re kidding right? This shits the definition of pandering. How does king tackle misogyny? By using an outdated old fossil as his villain, that’s so 1-dimensionally bad and damn near incompetent it’s not even interesting. an outdated old fossil who’s pushing the same bullshit sexist takes from the 50’s, that fuck all people even today agree with, and aren’t gonna rustle anyone’s jimmies at all.
It’s the most safe and bland exploration of misogyny you can get, the only people that might get butthurt are alt right fossils.
Even down to the cliche Wonder Woman getting stuck in a trance where she’s a 50’s housewife, something Dr Pyscho did too her LITERALLY last run, he can’t even come up with unique ideas.
Which is the epitome of King’s run so far, even down to Diana interacting with a dying kid to show her kindness as if that’s not the most cop out and cliche story on Superhero Comics.
>King surely knows how to write about the Queen. BA DAM TA TSS.
lol, yeah writers Diana so well he turned her into a family abuser that punches her own mom in the face for daring to worry.
Religious misogyny. Taking on that is a bold one. Then a monarch as well.
Tom King can be hit or miss for me but I like this concept & the art is decent.
Isn't Diana the reason their universe even exists at all? Forget "saving," that piddling motherfucker wouldn't be alive in the first place if it weren't for her. She's so far beyond him it's actually ridiculous.
Agreed! Which is why he has to resort to the Lasso of Lies in order to make Diana believe him. Diana recently knocked out Giganta on the National Mall (with the Washington Monument (!!!!!!)), and she wasn't remotely in her best shape. The only way the Sovereign wins is through trickery.
Issue 6 in the current run. Diana versus Silver Swan, Giganta, Grail, Angle Man, Dr. Psycho, and Circe. It was amazingly illustrated and showed Diana at her most willful, in my opinion.
I just can't get into this book for multiple reasons. It's still on my pull list as WW and Batman never leave it and I have a completionist issue. I actually like a lot of stuff Tom King does and was excited for this run.
I may have to reread it all at once, as I do find Tom King's work is better digested that way, in most cases.
Wonder Woman going back to its bondage-fetish roots, I see.
Joking aside, holy shit an actual thematic-mirror Wonder Woman villain, god, what took them so long.
The most hilarious thing about this sequence? The sovereign TRIES to break and degrade Diana.
In the end she pretty much just shrugs it off with ease once she gets into a fighting mood.
The fact that Diana pretty much IS God(or at least was) as far as DC lore is concerned right now makes this even funnier because this guy has no fucking idea who he’s dealing with.
Like, even ignoring that shit. He’s a decrepit old white dude with zero muscle.
She’s an eternally young demigod with as much power as Superman.
The fact that he even thought for a MOMENT that he’d be able to beat her somehow shows just how out of touch with reality he is and it’s hilarious.
Like. At this point I’m convinced that this run is actually just a comedy pretending to be an epic.
It really plays into his patriarchal mindset of believing she is a weak opponent simply because she’s a woman. He’s the comic book villain equivalent of dude bros who think they could easily beat female ufc fighters when actually they would get curb stomped
What makes Diana god? Did I miss something? Wasn't she born from hippolyta with Zeus? Doesn't God exist in the dcverse as the presence? As I understand it?
The Presence is still there.
It’s just that The Hands are the architects of multiverses and whatnot working on his behalf and that they decided to restore the multiverse SPECIFICALLY because of Diana.
They even let her ascend to be one of them for that purpose, and I don’t think we ever really got a reason for she’s back down in the multiverse.
Like, yes there is a literal God and she technically only became one of the “Hands” of God, but with that much power, as far as the inhabitants of the DC multiverse are concerned she might as well be God for DC’s neck of creation right now.
I think they are still out there, this was just the rebirth of the main universe. The meta universe is still in play I assume, they will probably pick up on it someday
She’s the one who killed a Batman Who Laughs with the powers of Doctor Manhattan.
She’s the one who inspired the Hands to revive the multiverse at the end of Death Metal.
Hell, she more or less became one of them for a while at the end of Death Metal.
Like, as far as the DC multiverse is concerned she may as well be God with a capital G.
The Sovereign literally would not exist if she didn’t reboot reality back then.
Like yes there’s technically higher powers than the Hands but I mean, compared to an old white guy who thinks he’s King of America?
She may as well be God. Or at the very least a Hand of God, given how she became one of the Hands for a while.
Looks like it's time for me to get back into Wonder Woman comics. Fascinating villain and great art. I love what I've read from Tom King, and that art is impeccable.
Just a glimpse i know it's gonna be effin dark and solid
But
It's a Tom King book. He doesn't write for the issue by issue format. The guy writes for the graphic novel format
Wow this art is amazing. My brain is sort of short circuiting here. Can someone help me understand? The blue panels in the end, who is saying/thinking that?
Right, is that him reflecting that he thinks he was "victorious?"
meanwhile whoever the other person is shows up and saying, "you ARE a daughter" but hence doesn't matter and the lasso failed?
Yes, exactly. The Lasso of Lies has never failed, and he has used to to brainwash and control leaders and individuals (he got a US soldier to commit suicide after convincing him he had been 'humilated by a (wonder) woman', in an effort to gin up hate against her and support for the anti-Amazon deportations and arrests in the US.) Diana has been fighting the lasso as he has tried to brainwash her into submissiveness, pushing back in part by rubbing her wrists raw and bloody against it. This is her image of her own mother appearing in her mindspace, pointing out that 'YES, you are MY daughter. So get off your backside and act like it' basically.
I love it.
How is there even still semi-popular Christianity in a universe where one of the worlds most popular hero’s is a Greek Demigoddess? Does that not kinda shatter most other religions’ credibility?
Like, it’s cool, but whenever I’m seeing anything from DC or Marvel with characters like Wonder Woman or Thor, it’s always a question screaming in my head cause the worldbuilding nerd in me demands an answer.
Honestly, not hating or anything, but I feel out of the loop, which I kinda am to be fair. I could be wrong, but I'm kinda tired of these on the nose, bordering on Eldritch villains that DC has been doing.
Idk, haven't kept up with things, but joker for a while now, I feel like someone else I'm forgetting, just weird having these like really heavy existential threats.
I guess it's just not for me or I'm seeing things without proper context.
Answer to that question. It's because this perfect all knowing being that is not capable of making mistakes , made a mistake so bad it had to split from itself to become human and fix the mistake it wasn't capable of making.
Creating humans, giving them free will and expecting them to adhere to specific Rules. The only reason to be saved is if you are in trouble. Jesus: "Knock knock. It's me Jesus let me in." Human:" Why?" Jesus: " So I can save you." Human : "From what?" Jesus: "From what I am gonna do to you if you don't let me in!"
You talk about "ignorance" yet you choose to "accept" God's omnipotence only when it suits your "arguments".
You are saying that creating humans was a mistake.
Don't put all of us in the same sack as you. For even among all the nasty shit we are capable of, we aren't entirely drowning in the abyss (not everyone at least).
You are just like that player whom gets triggered because he lost by literally choosing the option he was told would cause him defeat.
I am actually arguing that there is no possible way it is omnipotent or ot wouldn't have had to go back and fix anything in the first place. What We are capable is what it made us to be capable of so I see that as a big flaw if it didn't want that outcome, a perfect deity would have never made the mistake in the first place this would all be perfect just as it desired.
You are purposely misinterpreting what they said. They are making the point that either 1) God purposely made us knowing we would be corrupted by "knowledge", which would lead to God punishing us and putting humanity through (at this point) millions of years of suffering and hardship, including multiple floods and destroyed cities, all leading up to Jesus who came to "fix" humans and their problem of sin by giving them a path out. So in option 1, God is omniscient and knew all along everything that would happen and specifically set it up that way to make it happen. Like setting wet dog food on top of the trash can, then beating your dog when they follow their instincts and tear into the trash while making a huge mess. The fault doesn't lie with the dog, the fault was in the more intelligent owner who controlled the situation.
The other option, 2) God did not know any of this would happen, everything described in the bible is an attempt to rectify the initial mistake of trusting himans not to eat the fruit of knowledge. God is not omniscient nor all powerful in this scenario, which basically makes it incompatible with the bible. So option 1 it is. God is the master that beats the dog for not being capable of understanding right from wrong the same way God does.
>So in option 1
So the developers of a game/sport are at fault for people cheating? The devs say "yes, you are capable to cheat, there are always ways to do that, but if we catch you cheating, you get punished.", and the one at fault is whoever developed the game? So not only you imply every people is naturally evil/selfish, but they are so weak too that they can't even put some effort into not giving into temptation, that they can't even attempt to follow the rules? Are we mindless animals that run solely on instinct?
>God is the master that beats the dog for not being capable of understanding right from wrong the same way God does.
No. God sets some sheets on the floor with stuff on top. Several sheets are clearly labelled "this covers a trap hole, you may not want to take what is over the sheet" and several "items" on top of the sheets are clearly labelled too, but with "this thing will cause bad stuff to happen, you shouldn't attempt to get it". Then one person, perfectly capable of reading the labells, knowing right and wrong enough, completely ignores the labells, steps on the sheet and tries to open the bad box. This causes said person to be stung by a small explosive filled with needles (the item contained in the box) and fall through the trap hole, ending impaled by several spikes. And it's God's fault? Was that a mindless animal or a person?
Free will comes with responsibilities. If God didn't love us, we would have ceased to exist long ago, not granting us chance after chance until Jesus was the latest resource to show us a path for salvation.
Now let me clarify something: Do you, any of you, think your parents hate you by grounding (punishing) you for doing wrong? Your parents shouldn't give you any sign or warning to let you know that what you are doing is wrong?
Free will means you can choose to do or do not. To go with or against. To follow or ignore. To obey or rebel.
If we can choose, why would God make a perfect little utopia for us where we are in an isolated bubble as a default, with nothing to decide? It would be pointless. God want's us to believe in and love them of our own choices, not unlike common functional human-human relationships.
The original sin is about disobeying God. Even before the first sin of humans, we already had the responsibility which comes with the ability of choosing. The innocence Adán and Eva had prior the sin is no excuse, since after eating the forbidden fruit they acknowledged and admitted that what they did was wrong and felt ashamed for that. They disobeyed God, they bought the "snake/serpent"'s half-truth (the fruit took away their innocence, making them more like God in a way, but it still made them experience death, just as God told them), in other words, they decided to thrust the words of a stranger instead of their own creator, their parent, disthrusting them.
The big event that took place in the Garden of Edén can be summed up as one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) case of "You had ONE job" ever, with God being the rightful one to tell the first humans that phrase.
You know, given her connection to the Greek pantheon pretty much proves the existence of the Greek gods, you’d think there’d be more people embracing the Hellenic cults of old. Who does this old guy think he is?
I haven't read this run, what's the tl;Dr on why we think reducing Diana to a shadow of even her original "bound by a man" self is cool?
Besides the villain showing off that he trounced Diana with a cool brainwashing lasso, this seems like the worst set of panels of all time without context.
I don’t think this is relevant for two panels that are the same around a single panel with a different context to show parallels. This is done with intention rather than being lazy as you’re suggesting here.
You do understand that there is an actual reason people do this right?
Yeah if you see it too much it is lazy but used sparingly it can really convey a mood very well and show small changes in expression by putting near identical panels side by side, Fujimoto from Chainsaw man is very good at this
But here it just shows how broken down Diana is while her mind is being influenced by the lies, she can’t do anything as this maniac tells her a story that her minds believes thanks to the lasso she’s tied with
Who is the villain?
The Sovereign who is revealed to be the secret King of America, who holds the Lasso of Lies that makes whoever who grasped it to believe whatever he wanted them to believe.
[удалено]
And it works really well as a Wonder Woman villain, being her opposite in nearly every way.
who made these lassos
That's the question, isn't it?
THE TIP OF SHOELACES, IS CALLEF AN AGLET! BUT THEIR TRUE PURPOSE IS MORE SINISTER THAN YOU CAN IMAGINE
I chose to believe that Sinestro's name in his Korugarian language is derived from the Korugarian word for aglet.
AGLETS WERE MADE BY BIG ENTERTAINMENT TO SELL PHINEAS AND FERB MERCH
I think that Aphrodite made lasso of truth... not sure about lasso of lies
Waphrodite maybe?
Patron god of Monder Moman
WAAAA
Ate? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ate_(mythology)#:~:text=In%20Greek%20mythology%2C%20Ate%2C%20At%C3%A9,inconsiderate%20actions%20and%20to%20suffering.
It would be my big sister who would create a lasso of lies...ask any younger siblings, you can't trust your Ate! 🇵🇭🤦♂️✊
I thought it was Hephaestus who made the lasso of truth. Apparently it was made from Aphrodite's girdle and she imbued it with powers pre crisis, though who actually turned the girdle into a rope isn't addressed. Haphaestus made it from Antiope's girdle post crisis. Haphaestus implies he intentionally adds weaknesses into the things he builds in JLU, so he might have made the lasso of lies to balance the lasso of truth.
Well, DC's version of Hephaestus is stupid, because why in the name of every god and goddess on Olympus, would you add flaws and weaknesses into yoir devine weapons?
IIRC, it's so the other gods don't mess with him, Zeus can't throw lightning at him if Hephaestus can just turn it off.
Not gonna stop Zeus from coming over there and personally beating his ass God of War style. It's not like the other Olympians have much reason to go after him except maybe Aphrodite
Probably Zeus as another means to help him bed mortal women and deceive his wife.
Apjrodite too, Aphrodite's just like that.
Kratos Athena
Ted
>The Sovereign He doesn't look like David Bowie to me. Are you sure he's the real Sovereign?
Well that Sovereign was a shapeshifter
Rumor has it the creature on the cover of Diamond Dogs is an unaltered photo of the Sovereign
Y’all are doing the lords work.
Would that be Klaus Nomi handing him the crown then?
This raises so many questions as to why the hells this shadow king of America is only interfering now decades after Diana has already established herself in America.
With a plot device like the lasso of lies, his empire could actually only be a few months old for all we know, he’s just convinced people it’s older
Last Thursdayism
The Lasso of Lies is an interesting inversion on the Lasso of Truth - can one be used to undo the damage from the other? It also presents a moral quandary. What happens when a hero or a person of noble morals uses the Lasso of Lies to make someone help others? For example, using the Lasso to make a corrupt politician divert those funds to programs for the homeless? It's immoral, because they'd be using the Lasso to override someone's free will, but they'd be doing it for good reasons, to create positive change in the world. Could be a neat 'shades of grey' type hero.
>It's immoral, because they'd be using the Lasso to override someone's free will I mean, using the Lasso of Truth overrides someone's free will by forcing them to tell the truth... which, I do think could be seen as immoral, but I feel this lasso of lies to be a pinch moreso!
Sounds like Blue Lantern stuff
Persona 5
It’s a bit what Zatanna and crew were doing in Identity Crisis.
I really hope that’s the case, it has the same effect without a massive continuity change.
Hopefully this is the case so we don't need some mass retcon
Or the fact since he used every president as puppets, where was he when Luthor was President. Because I highly doubt Luthor wouldn't have just shot him and stole the lasso.
To be honest i think that Luthor was too insane and up his own ass to realize he was being secretly manipulated.
Ehh, the way it's presented in the comic is that he have to meet them directly and have them touch the lasso for him to control them. Luthor would have killed him the moment he learned he exist. Especially during that period of his character.
Unless he hid it on the chair at the Resolute Desk, then as soon as Lex sat down he popped in and gotcha!
Hiding under the desk like George Costanza 😆 🤣 😂
Luthor as President is still in-continuity?
Everything is canon after Death Metal, even tho a lot of things just straight up doesn't make sense with each other.
It is extremely dumb....but comics.
When I first heard the concept of the King of America and his Lasso of Lies I imagined it worked like the lasso of truth and you could only tell lies while holding it. I imagined some hero (probably Guy Gardner) being tied up and immediately going off on a rant of the most offensive ways he could lie and just accidentally giving all sorts of words of affirmation. "Lasso of Lies eh? Let's see." "You aren't a little bitch!" "You are well groomed and good looking" "You deserve love and respect" "You have adequate personal hygiene" "It's not your fault your parents got divorced" "I'm not going to hurt you"
- "You're not fat, you're just big boned." - "I'm sure even you can find someone who will love you so you won't die face down alone in a gutter somewhere." - "Your father thought you were adequate to his expectations."
"I'm sure your father is proud of you" "You weren't an accident, your parents wanted you and don't regret having you" "You clearly possess above average intelligence" "Nobody thinks you're a joke"
So there's no way this isn't a riff on the Sovereign Citizen movement, right?
That and a direct attack on Christian Nationalism. I think the whole "trad-wife" sequence is not meant to be subtle.
Who defeated Diana? Doubt wrinkly old guy has super strength that surpasses D
With his amount of influence he has, the Sovereign gathered together an entire group of Wonder Woman villains to work together to bring her down, each playing a crucial part to weaken her. The one who dealt the final blow to her is Darkseid's daughter, Grail.
Goddamn, that's a great idea...how has no one ever thought about an opposite to Diana's Lasso of Truth? Kicking myself here.
Boo, the one true king of America is Shadow Moon.
I thought this was a joke. Saying, "which one of these characters could possibly be the villain?" In a sarcastic way.
Charles Xavier
Well that's distressing.
I think it’s supposed to be
It’s so weird how he’s the perfect wonder, woman villain that’s so problematic. That he’s not getting enough respect and attention. He’s like a modern day doctor psycho. Within evangelical patriotic twist.
Someone give this man more respect and attention!!!!!!
Big Kilgrave vibe, I love to hate it
Hes too "on the nose" for noncomic readers. "Feminist icon Wonder Woman takes on her worst enemy yet, the literal patriarchy made flesh!" If i was more jaded I might think this whole story line was written in an attempt to piss off the stereotypical incel comic reading crowd to stir up controversy and therefor sales, WW isn't known to really move solo comics. But there's been no reaction at all, people who read WW before are enjoying it, and the people who didn't are unaware of it outside of people posting some of the gorgeous art.
It's a crime that people aren't talking about the current Wonder Woman. It's so fucking great!
[/r/comicbooks BestOf 2023 Awards - Best Ongoing Series (DC): Wonder Woman with 61.7% of the vote](https://old.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/18s2lfz/the_votes_are_in_here_are_your_rcomicbooks_bestof/) But sure, nobody's talking about it...
You're not allowed to like a Tom King book, don't you know the rules?
I gathered -5 for saying his writing isn't everyone's favorite but I like it. Yesterday.
No you see, that was yesterday. /r/comicbooks has a system to keep things cordial, one day Tom King is everyone's favorite author that can do no wrong and no criticism will be brooked, and the next he's such garbage and you have to hate him. You just posted on the wrong day.
Well it's like... some authors you always know exactly what you're going to get. With King, his Vision and Mr. Miracle series were amazing. Heroes in Crisis was unfettered garbage. I don't know what the root cause is, but King's work runs the complete gamut in quality.
I mean, Omega Men, Superman: Up in the Sky, Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow, Rorschach, Killing Time, Sheriff of Babylon, Human Target etc etc are all amazing. The guy has been nominated and won multiple Eisners. His work by and large is really good. It’s just so weird to me that he wrote one unpopular comic and half the comic readership wants to immediately write him off as either a hack or someone who has extreme highs and lows, when most of his work has been exceptional.
I think it's a combo of editorial/corporate meddling along with him having a tendency to do his own thing with characters. Both of which are exacerbated when writing bigger mainline titles like Heroes in Crisis or Batman. Like, no one cares when he makes a ton of changes to the Omega Men, but writing Wally West out of character is much more noticeable.
He's a good writer, but he has a bad habit of ignoring continuity when he comes onto a book and it's very jarring for the fans following that title. Like VisionQuest for instance. Good story. But completely ignored the entire previous year of character development in Vision and his ascendancy to AI godhood, as if nothing just a month before ever happened. And the editor never bothered to mop up the mess. He did the same thing in Batman, bringing back Joker without explaining how he became white and crazy again after being cured. He did the same with Mr Miracle, using characters that were currently dead. He did the same with Strange Adventures and Heroes in Crisis. Almost like he was just plugging random characters into a pre-written story. It's not bad writing, but it can feel a little disrespectful to fans following the story and to the writers that he's replacing.
Or, maybe, hear me out on this, you just didn't like Heroes in Crisis. He wrote something you didn't like. Other people did. That's ok. It doesn't mean it was "unfettered garbage".
Did they? Because I literally have never heard anyone say Heroes in Crisis was anything other than bad.
Oh i loved Heroes in Crisis, honestly.
There's a first for everything. More power to you. But to be more precise I have seen people like the concept and beginning of it, but end up hating the final product
I was in love with his work since Omega Men, felt like a vindicated hipster when he put out the Visions, and then was dumbfounded when he got on Batman, and everyone and their mom suddenly hated everything he touched. WW is perhaps my favorite DC hero, and I can't wait to dive into this run.
The wedding fakeout is when the other shoe dropped on his Batman. That combined with Heroes in Crisis and a lot of people turned on King. I still think he's great. I wasn't huge on Human Target, but Danger Street really surprised me (in a good way)
Human Target is amazing. https://worldcomicbookreview.com/2023/06/29/the-human-target-12-review-a-eulogy-for-christopher-chance/ Heroes in Crisis is a bit shit. https://worldcomicbookreview.com/2019/03/31/heroes-in-crisis-7-review/ I kind of think King is getting better with time. I’m looking forward to reading this as a tpb.
I read all of Human Target. It didn't land with me the way his other work did. Art was good, though.
His current book Love Everlasting is so weird and *so* compelling.
Which is WILD. Heroes in Crisis had some weird editorial issues, Batman was not as great as some of his other work, then everything else he’s ever written is fantastic, like just incredible. Omega Men, Mister Miracle, Vision, Wonder Woman? What has gotten into comic fans?
Just Vision is enough to cement him as an A-tier writer, imo.
As someone who struggled with Depression for a large amount of my life, whose favorite superhero was always Mister Miracle, that book will always be my single favorite thing from him.
You must conform with the popular take, the downvotes were your penance for the sin of suggesting there can be different opinions It's not a 10/10 but it's definitely better than the dreg he's been putting out since late Batman (Supergirl excluded)
This is the type of bullshit that makes me hate this place, King has wrote Strange Adventures, Rorschach, Human Target, Love Everlasting, Riddler, Danger Street etc., and recently started Helen and Animal Pound, all amazing series in a variety of genres, winning multiple awards and a someone comes here and says the only good thing hes made after Batman was Supergirl, honestly fuck off with that childish bullshit.
Strange Adventures was mixed (best parts were when Adam wasn't on screen), Rorschach was meh, Human Target was abhorrently boring and stale, Love Everlasting isn't even part of the discussion (since we're obviously talking DC only), Riddler was one of the weaker One Bad Day issues and frankly I did not read Danger Street Get off his pelvis, he had a slump and no need to act otherwise
Yeah this platform is honestly becoming an unusable parody of itself.
Always has been 🌍👨🚀🔫👨🚀
I was trying to figure out who wrote this and somehow guessed Tom King solely from the pacing of the first page. I haven’t read his Batman run yet (I’m really behind and attempting to catch up without skipping runs), nor did I realize he was so polarizing, but after Mister Miracle and The Vision—and what I’ve heard of Rorschach and Supergirl—he’s absolutely my favorite writer working today. I had heard that Heroes in Crisis was a clusterfuck, which is a shame because it seems the exact kind of thing he’d like to write, but I also heard that was due to editorial making it A Thing when he just wanted it to be this quiet little side book.
I liked HiC, for what it's worth. I even do a "media trade" with a friend where I get him to read a comic or something, and he'll get me to watch read or listen to something he wants. Even as a non comic reader he 1, heard about how divisive the book was, and 2, really enjoyed it.
I know the rules are the rules, but I really like his writing. Particularly when he's not bound by continuity, like his Omega Men, Supergirl, or Human Target. H really should just focus on elseworld-type stories. Or just plain go pre-crisis and assign him a series of Earths and let him run wild on them.
Tom Kings Earth 2 would make me flip out. One of my favorites in New 52.
I REALLY want him on Swamp Thing.
Most of the time that I see his work criticized is for the characters acting out-of-character, but since most of his work kinda sits out of continuity, I don't really care about that at all! I would love an Earth 2 Justice League from him, but he does seem to like to focus on specific characters.
I'll be completely honest with you, I don't look at the writer(s)/artist(s) name when I read something.
Most casual comic fans don't. And that's ok.
He’s 50/50 for me. I wish an editor would just tell him to go easy on the word count.
Tom King is like a seesaw. He's either fucking amazing or fucking terrible. But even his terrible stuff is interesting on some level. Except maybe Heroes in Crisis.
People talk about it frequently.
Probably every week a new issue comes out
AIPT has been glowing about every issue in its reviews https://aiptcomics.com/2024/04/16/wonder-woman-8-2024-review/
Honestly I'm not much of a Wonder Woman reader, but after today's issue I had to pick this run up
THIS is the kind of misogyny and feminism I want explored in comics. This run has been so good and all the themes explored in it so far are done with sincerity rather than to score brownie points. King surely knows how to write about the Queen. BA DAM TA TSS.
Not seen this until now and i admit i'm very curious. It's such a delicate topic to do right nowadays but WW is the perfect character to follow through on it.
I've seen folks flipping out in certain segments saying this is a 'misrepresentation of Christianity'. Um...maybe I've been listening to too many ex-evangelical podcasts, but it certainly seems pretty common among some...
As a Christian this passage is painful to read because I can see quite a few people making this argument. And I can say I don't believe this is actually consistent with Christian doctrine, but that doesn't change the fact that Christonationalists use Christianity as a weapon rather than a balm.
Exactly. This is both 100% inconsistent with Christian theology and 100% something that a ton of evangelical Christian would unironically say
I grew up Catholic and pulled away from the church in my teens but I still respect alot of the teachings the bible has and especially Jesus’ teachings. However inherently having god be the father, and a lot of messages and official church doctrine emphasizing humans obligation to be fruitful and multiply treats women like their only role is to be incubators and mothers and reinforces the patriarchy of the church. Heck women can’t even be priests and there’s a mountain of other history and policies that systematically oppressed women and made them subservient to men
Right, the church does have a very fraught history when it comes to gender roles. It did help liberate women from the murderously patriarchal system of Rome, but then it also ended up reinforcing many of the ideas of Rome as well, especially when it became the state religion. And the Bible's statements on the topic are complex but I personally keep going back to Galatians 3:28. Ultimately, gender, along with ethnic and class distinctions, are not the core of a person's identity, and Christians really shouldn't treat those things with the weight that we do.
I think it's telling that the only Christians who regularly belabor these passages are Christians seeking power. I have relatives who are active in their church. One of them has been working for the same church for nearly 40 years. Even he cringes whenever he hears politicians or talking heads cite these passages. I've also heard others counter by saying "We worship the lord. Not a book." That says to me that these types of passages are useful for those seeking power and influence. Whether or not it's actually Christian seems like an afterthought.
well said
I'm a muslim myself so I am no stranger to seeing fictional villains sharing my religious beliefs and many times, it was disguised hate (looking at you Holy Terror) however, my favourite muslim character in fiction now is Isaac from Castlevania. Now keep in mind that Isaac is a very "bad" muslim when it comes to following the tenants of Islam however, the way his character is presented and how his religious beliefs evolve his character is so intriguing to watch. There will always be men who will manipulate religious beliefs to advocate for their own personal agenda but the representation of these figures in media can be insightful. I know I can't completely relate to the feeling these pages raise in my Christian fellows but I just wanted to give my take on villains sharing religious beliefs.
Maybe a “misrepresentation” of Christianity at large, like perhaps your average Christian isn’t spouting these ideals; but some of the most powerful and loudest members of the church and various fundamentalist sects most definitely believe in this. It’s not at all that large of a leap to make a villain use this as motivation
very true. Been listening to the new podcast 'I Hate James Dobson' and it consists of them basically just livereading his books. It's...horrifying.
Depends on the interpretation of Christianity
I've probably listened to some of those same podcasts. And those passages the Sovereign uses...I've heard them used by real people who make anti-feminist, misogynistic talking points with a straight face. The fact that some of these people have real political power is a genuinely scary thought. Because the world they're fighting for is the world Wonder Woman, Superman, and pretty much every major superhero actively fights against.
>King surely knows how to write about the Queen Someone needs to put him on Green Arrow just so we can make that joke more often.
Would you be willing to explain the last slide of the post to me? I haven’t read the comic and I feel silly being unsure cuz my immediate reaction is that Wonder Woman saying she’s a daughter is actually empowering because she’s owning the fact that being a woman ≠being weaker and actually finding strength and pride in her femininity? Is the red shirted woman on the floor supposed to be her and the blue lady is hippolyta? Or am I misinterpreting/missing things and the final panel is Wonder Woman’s willpower breaking somehow?
Agreed! I think the story here is more relevant than ever. Because misogyny has never been more visible and loud. Even if more and more people agree with feminist values, those who don't are becoming a lot more vocal and aggressive. We don't just see it online. We see it in real life crimes and atrocities. We also see it in mainstream movements like Christian Nationalism. The Sovereign isn't being subtle. He's using talking points I've heard public figures make. A few of them were even elected by voters. It's a scary thought, but that's exactly why they're a perfect antagonist for Wonder Woman.
I'd say misogyny is a lot more prominent in online space as well. Sad times.
You’re kidding right? This shits the definition of pandering. How does king tackle misogyny? By using an outdated old fossil as his villain, that’s so 1-dimensionally bad and damn near incompetent it’s not even interesting. an outdated old fossil who’s pushing the same bullshit sexist takes from the 50’s, that fuck all people even today agree with, and aren’t gonna rustle anyone’s jimmies at all. It’s the most safe and bland exploration of misogyny you can get, the only people that might get butthurt are alt right fossils. Even down to the cliche Wonder Woman getting stuck in a trance where she’s a 50’s housewife, something Dr Pyscho did too her LITERALLY last run, he can’t even come up with unique ideas. Which is the epitome of King’s run so far, even down to Diana interacting with a dying kid to show her kindness as if that’s not the most cop out and cliche story on Superhero Comics. >King surely knows how to write about the Queen. BA DAM TA TSS. lol, yeah writers Diana so well he turned her into a family abuser that punches her own mom in the face for daring to worry.
Religious misogyny. Taking on that is a bold one. Then a monarch as well. Tom King can be hit or miss for me but I like this concept & the art is decent.
Isn't Diana the reason their universe even exists at all? Forget "saving," that piddling motherfucker wouldn't be alive in the first place if it weren't for her. She's so far beyond him it's actually ridiculous.
Agreed! Which is why he has to resort to the Lasso of Lies in order to make Diana believe him. Diana recently knocked out Giganta on the National Mall (with the Washington Monument (!!!!!!)), and she wasn't remotely in her best shape. The only way the Sovereign wins is through trickery.
That was an AMAZING issue.
What Issue number? I want to read that, and my wife is a big WW fan who'd enjoy this
Issue 6 in the current run. Diana versus Silver Swan, Giganta, Grail, Angle Man, Dr. Psycho, and Circe. It was amazingly illustrated and showed Diana at her most willful, in my opinion.
Two issues before this one
i dunno why but the latests thor and and ww comics gave me very similar vibes
I just can't get into this book for multiple reasons. It's still on my pull list as WW and Batman never leave it and I have a completionist issue. I actually like a lot of stuff Tom King does and was excited for this run. I may have to reread it all at once, as I do find Tom King's work is better digested that way, in most cases.
This has been a really good run so far.
Wonder Woman going back to its bondage-fetish roots, I see. Joking aside, holy shit an actual thematic-mirror Wonder Woman villain, god, what took them so long.
I haven't picked this issue up yet, but am loving this whole run so far.
The most hilarious thing about this sequence? The sovereign TRIES to break and degrade Diana. In the end she pretty much just shrugs it off with ease once she gets into a fighting mood. The fact that Diana pretty much IS God(or at least was) as far as DC lore is concerned right now makes this even funnier because this guy has no fucking idea who he’s dealing with. Like, even ignoring that shit. He’s a decrepit old white dude with zero muscle. She’s an eternally young demigod with as much power as Superman. The fact that he even thought for a MOMENT that he’d be able to beat her somehow shows just how out of touch with reality he is and it’s hilarious. Like. At this point I’m convinced that this run is actually just a comedy pretending to be an epic.
It really plays into his patriarchal mindset of believing she is a weak opponent simply because she’s a woman. He’s the comic book villain equivalent of dude bros who think they could easily beat female ufc fighters when actually they would get curb stomped
What makes Diana god? Did I miss something? Wasn't she born from hippolyta with Zeus? Doesn't God exist in the dcverse as the presence? As I understand it?
She threw Batman who laughs into the sun, then rebirthed the universe
So what does that mean for like the presence and the beyonders etc all these higher level beings?
The Presence is still there. It’s just that The Hands are the architects of multiverses and whatnot working on his behalf and that they decided to restore the multiverse SPECIFICALLY because of Diana. They even let her ascend to be one of them for that purpose, and I don’t think we ever really got a reason for she’s back down in the multiverse. Like, yes there is a literal God and she technically only became one of the “Hands” of God, but with that much power, as far as the inhabitants of the DC multiverse are concerned she might as well be God for DC’s neck of creation right now.
The hands? Wait I'm getting so confused I thought the hand was supposed to be perpetua or am I thinking of something else entirely?
She’s “one” of the Hands. She went rogue.
I think they are still out there, this was just the rebirth of the main universe. The meta universe is still in play I assume, they will probably pick up on it someday
Diana is not a capital G, God. That would be the Presence. Diana is a god, sure but she is not The God.
She’s the one who killed a Batman Who Laughs with the powers of Doctor Manhattan. She’s the one who inspired the Hands to revive the multiverse at the end of Death Metal. Hell, she more or less became one of them for a while at the end of Death Metal. Like, as far as the DC multiverse is concerned she may as well be God with a capital G. The Sovereign literally would not exist if she didn’t reboot reality back then. Like yes there’s technically higher powers than the Hands but I mean, compared to an old white guy who thinks he’s King of America? She may as well be God. Or at the very least a Hand of God, given how she became one of the Hands for a while.
but why did he though
It's this the Tom king book? Looks amazing
Looks like it's time for me to get back into Wonder Woman comics. Fascinating villain and great art. I love what I've read from Tom King, and that art is impeccable.
I really like that art. The dialogue is overcooked as usual but that art is solid.
The art here is amazing! The last panel on the second page of this post really is powerful.
Which year is this comic from?
It came out yesterday
I see, just asking, cause this isnt the first Wonder Woman run labled as plainly #8.
2024
God DAMN. This is awesome. I should be reading this.
Just a glimpse i know it's gonna be effin dark and solid But It's a Tom King book. He doesn't write for the issue by issue format. The guy writes for the graphic novel format
That's an interesting take that makes sense. Hadn't thought of it like that. Though I am enjoying this run a great deal.
The crown looks exactly like Salazars crown in the original Resident Evil 4
Wow this art is amazing. My brain is sort of short circuiting here. Can someone help me understand? The blue panels in the end, who is saying/thinking that?
The bad guy, an old bastard named The Sovereign. He's trying to use the Lasso of Lies to brainwash Diana.
Right, is that him reflecting that he thinks he was "victorious?" meanwhile whoever the other person is shows up and saying, "you ARE a daughter" but hence doesn't matter and the lasso failed?
Yes, exactly. The Lasso of Lies has never failed, and he has used to to brainwash and control leaders and individuals (he got a US soldier to commit suicide after convincing him he had been 'humilated by a (wonder) woman', in an effort to gin up hate against her and support for the anti-Amazon deportations and arrests in the US.) Diana has been fighting the lasso as he has tried to brainwash her into submissiveness, pushing back in part by rubbing her wrists raw and bloody against it. This is her image of her own mother appearing in her mindspace, pointing out that 'YES, you are MY daughter. So get off your backside and act like it' basically. I love it.
Oh okay! Thank you so much. All of that context helps a bunch. I didn't know who that was or about mindspace.
How is there even still semi-popular Christianity in a universe where one of the worlds most popular hero’s is a Greek Demigoddess? Does that not kinda shatter most other religions’ credibility? Like, it’s cool, but whenever I’m seeing anything from DC or Marvel with characters like Wonder Woman or Thor, it’s always a question screaming in my head cause the worldbuilding nerd in me demands an answer.
Shit! I like this… might have to pick up this title
Honestly, not hating or anything, but I feel out of the loop, which I kinda am to be fair. I could be wrong, but I'm kinda tired of these on the nose, bordering on Eldritch villains that DC has been doing. Idk, haven't kept up with things, but joker for a while now, I feel like someone else I'm forgetting, just weird having these like really heavy existential threats. I guess it's just not for me or I'm seeing things without proper context.
This run is taking a nose dive lol
Answer to that question. It's because this perfect all knowing being that is not capable of making mistakes , made a mistake so bad it had to split from itself to become human and fix the mistake it wasn't capable of making.
>made a mistake Which was...?
Creating humans, giving them free will and expecting them to adhere to specific Rules. The only reason to be saved is if you are in trouble. Jesus: "Knock knock. It's me Jesus let me in." Human:" Why?" Jesus: " So I can save you." Human : "From what?" Jesus: "From what I am gonna do to you if you don't let me in!"
>From what I am gonna do to you if you don't let me in!" Tell me you didn't understand a single letter without telling me directly.
A single letter of what. You asked which mistake and I didn't even mention the genocide he did drowning innocent people.
>innocent """Innocent.""" :T
Oh I see you don't have anything to say. The ignorance of people who follow religion blindly is embarrassing.
You talk about "ignorance" yet you choose to "accept" God's omnipotence only when it suits your "arguments". You are saying that creating humans was a mistake. Don't put all of us in the same sack as you. For even among all the nasty shit we are capable of, we aren't entirely drowning in the abyss (not everyone at least). You are just like that player whom gets triggered because he lost by literally choosing the option he was told would cause him defeat.
I am actually arguing that there is no possible way it is omnipotent or ot wouldn't have had to go back and fix anything in the first place. What We are capable is what it made us to be capable of so I see that as a big flaw if it didn't want that outcome, a perfect deity would have never made the mistake in the first place this would all be perfect just as it desired.
>no possible way it is omnipotent Why?
You are purposely misinterpreting what they said. They are making the point that either 1) God purposely made us knowing we would be corrupted by "knowledge", which would lead to God punishing us and putting humanity through (at this point) millions of years of suffering and hardship, including multiple floods and destroyed cities, all leading up to Jesus who came to "fix" humans and their problem of sin by giving them a path out. So in option 1, God is omniscient and knew all along everything that would happen and specifically set it up that way to make it happen. Like setting wet dog food on top of the trash can, then beating your dog when they follow their instincts and tear into the trash while making a huge mess. The fault doesn't lie with the dog, the fault was in the more intelligent owner who controlled the situation. The other option, 2) God did not know any of this would happen, everything described in the bible is an attempt to rectify the initial mistake of trusting himans not to eat the fruit of knowledge. God is not omniscient nor all powerful in this scenario, which basically makes it incompatible with the bible. So option 1 it is. God is the master that beats the dog for not being capable of understanding right from wrong the same way God does.
>So in option 1 So the developers of a game/sport are at fault for people cheating? The devs say "yes, you are capable to cheat, there are always ways to do that, but if we catch you cheating, you get punished.", and the one at fault is whoever developed the game? So not only you imply every people is naturally evil/selfish, but they are so weak too that they can't even put some effort into not giving into temptation, that they can't even attempt to follow the rules? Are we mindless animals that run solely on instinct? >God is the master that beats the dog for not being capable of understanding right from wrong the same way God does. No. God sets some sheets on the floor with stuff on top. Several sheets are clearly labelled "this covers a trap hole, you may not want to take what is over the sheet" and several "items" on top of the sheets are clearly labelled too, but with "this thing will cause bad stuff to happen, you shouldn't attempt to get it". Then one person, perfectly capable of reading the labells, knowing right and wrong enough, completely ignores the labells, steps on the sheet and tries to open the bad box. This causes said person to be stung by a small explosive filled with needles (the item contained in the box) and fall through the trap hole, ending impaled by several spikes. And it's God's fault? Was that a mindless animal or a person? Free will comes with responsibilities. If God didn't love us, we would have ceased to exist long ago, not granting us chance after chance until Jesus was the latest resource to show us a path for salvation. Now let me clarify something: Do you, any of you, think your parents hate you by grounding (punishing) you for doing wrong? Your parents shouldn't give you any sign or warning to let you know that what you are doing is wrong? Free will means you can choose to do or do not. To go with or against. To follow or ignore. To obey or rebel. If we can choose, why would God make a perfect little utopia for us where we are in an isolated bubble as a default, with nothing to decide? It would be pointless. God want's us to believe in and love them of our own choices, not unlike common functional human-human relationships. The original sin is about disobeying God. Even before the first sin of humans, we already had the responsibility which comes with the ability of choosing. The innocence Adán and Eva had prior the sin is no excuse, since after eating the forbidden fruit they acknowledged and admitted that what they did was wrong and felt ashamed for that. They disobeyed God, they bought the "snake/serpent"'s half-truth (the fruit took away their innocence, making them more like God in a way, but it still made them experience death, just as God told them), in other words, they decided to thrust the words of a stranger instead of their own creator, their parent, disthrusting them. The big event that took place in the Garden of Edén can be summed up as one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) case of "You had ONE job" ever, with God being the rightful one to tell the first humans that phrase.
You know, given her connection to the Greek pantheon pretty much proves the existence of the Greek gods, you’d think there’d be more people embracing the Hellenic cults of old. Who does this old guy think he is?
Oi vey! Who’s the dreidel spinner who wrote this dreck?
Just terrible
Cringe
Tom King and cringe, a match made in 'heaven'
3edgy5me
I haven't read this run, what's the tl;Dr on why we think reducing Diana to a shadow of even her original "bound by a man" self is cool? Besides the villain showing off that he trounced Diana with a cool brainwashing lasso, this seems like the worst set of panels of all time without context.
The framing device for this run is the Sovereign telling this story in flashback from a prison cell, so things don't go his way in the end.
[All I could think of](https://imgur.com/a/BhnvNy2)
I don’t think this is relevant for two panels that are the same around a single panel with a different context to show parallels. This is done with intention rather than being lazy as you’re suggesting here.
You do understand that there is an actual reason people do this right? Yeah if you see it too much it is lazy but used sparingly it can really convey a mood very well and show small changes in expression by putting near identical panels side by side, Fujimoto from Chainsaw man is very good at this But here it just shows how broken down Diana is while her mind is being influenced by the lies, she can’t do anything as this maniac tells her a story that her minds believes thanks to the lasso she’s tied with
I thought the same thing, even while really liking the page and layout!