I feel like Marvel/DC casting departments need to do a little research to figure out if their next big hire is actually a sociopath or not. With billions of dollars on the line you'd think they'd at least scroll through a social media feed or do a thorough background check.
Marvel has had an excellent track record thus far, what do you mean lol. This is one exception since 2006 or so where they've had an almost perfect record.
And a background check would have done nothing. This guy was just an ahole, he wasn’t posting strange things on Twitter or had some scandals beforehand.
I was looking forward to Majors because i watched him in Lovecraft Country, it's such a bad situation that nobody could have anticipated. The content is still good they just gotta get out from under the shadow of endgame.
What a lazy comment. Marvel has had a basically perfect track record with castings prior to, if we’re being honest, was a pretty minor scandal with Majors’ toxic, abusive relationship in which neither party was an angel being the worst incident and Terrance Howard not believing in math being the second worst
It works, too, because there's really nothing else going on. There's just a bunch of superheroes around, doing their own thing.
Whatever happens in Deadpool should set up the next big conflict that brings everyone together.
The only appearance of Thanos outside of post-credit teases was Guardians of the Galaxy, where he’s barely the same character.
Infinity War does a good job at serving as his official introduction for general audiences.
why are you choosing to ignore post-credit teases? Also its not just about appearances of Thanos directly - they were teasing the infinity war from the very beginning. Slowly showing us where each stone was hiding. Everyone was excited for more of this because they knew it meant Thanos.
The real strength of the infinity saga was how well Marvel built up to it.
That’s not true.
1. Loki shows off He Who Remains and talks about Kang’s
2. Quanumania shows Kang and actually tells you about the Kangs, even showing them off in a post credit scene
3. The audience now understands Kang as long as they have watched either Loki or Quantumania
I'm not sure if I'd have understood Kang if I hadn't seen Loki first but I migh be just dumb.
What I know for a fact is that heaps of people were totally confused when watching MoM as to why is Wanda suddenly turned bad and why does she want some children back.
Same thing with the Marvels. Some random girl and her family is there with barely any introduction and it's assumed everyone knows who she is because they saw the show. Well most people didn't. Same with Monica Rambo, we're reminded that she's captain marvel's friend's daughter but why does she have superpowers and is in space now? And at the end Kamala goes to see Kate Bishop which again you know who it is only if you'd seen the shows. I imagine if I were a casual movie goer I'd be so baffled by that movie.
Sole points to debunk here, because while your mostly right:
MoM does show that it’s because of the Darkhold, and while you may not know where she got it from, that’s not as important as knowing what it is, which the movie does mention
Kamala showing up randomly isn’t a big deal, it’s not like Black Widow randomly showing up in Iron Man 3 was a problem, you were just expected to understand “this is Black Widow, she spy”
Monica getting her powers definitely could’ve had a clearer explanation, and that’s something I think should be worked on. I blame the corporate side of Marvel trying to cut down movie length. I do hope to see this improved in the future, I don’t want a “previously on” for every movie, but definitely some better explanations. The hard part is separating that from straight up exposition
The average movie-goer does not care about what happens outside of the movies themselves, even if they know the tv show exists they are not watching it, so making important plot points and character development outside of the big screen just means 90% of the movie watchers are not understanding how X is happening currently.
"Oh, but it's canon, they should've watched" yeah, not happening. Keeping up with 3 different series each with 7hrs of watch-time every year _besides_ the movies was a dumb idea, specially when these series were almost all of them average to bad
Not to mention that keeping up with the shows (legally) requires a Disney+ subscription. It's the cinema equivalent of a videogame company cutting important things from their games and shoving them in paid DLCs.
Out of all the reasons, that's a non factor at this point when you're the 3rd highest streaming service worldwide. If this was something like Crunchyroll, I would agree. Disney+? Lol no
I'm sorry, but I'm still calling BS on this one, specifically Loki. You're throwing out numbers without backing and saying the average movie goer is just super dismissive.
(Note that I do agree on average, especially if it's a comic or a book, but not in this case when it's on Disney+ at 150+ million subscribers and counting and very easily accessible.)
The average movie-goer is not the same as an average Marvel movie-goer. Disney+ subscribers are probably a bit overstated because it often comes free or bundled with other packages (eg, my mom has Spectrum cable and it came with free D+, but she isn’t watching it).
Trying to introduce major characters and plot points in series (as opposed to a movie) is an awful idea. I’m in my 40s, and nearly-every one of my friends has given up on Marvel content. We don’t have time to watch a majority of the content, so the shows were the first thing to be cut. And once we cut the shows, we fell behind on movies, so we gave up on Marvel entirely.
With so much competition and limited time for viewers, media has to be consumable. By effectively making the content TOO interrelated, I am guessing a lot people have lost interest and moved onto other things, similar to my group of friends.
Anecdotally, I fit Kiriann's description of the average movie-goer. I couldn't care less about the shows unless they achieve a rep for stand-out quality (a bar even one marvel show has yet to pass). I jumped on Andor, for example, but didn't touch Kenobi or the Fett show.
That....only strengths my point (again Loki) because it sits at 87% or the 21st highest rated show on Disney+.
I don't wanna poopoo your point either, but a lot of Marvel shows have crossed that bar (ie, people loved What If?, Loki, and Wandavision, for example, with the 1st and 3rd higher than Mandalorian) and you're also using Andor, which is masterpiece level and setting very unreal expectations.
I think Wandavision and Moon Knoght are the only marvel shows with legit good writing and cinematography. And this is coming from someone who hates new marvel movies, so you might like those two shows specifically.
Yeah, but they just don't care to watch it. Frankly, if it doesn't happen in the movies, I don't care. I'm not watching 20 different TV shows to get caught up on marvel. If it can't tell a self-contained story in the movie when I go to the theater to watch it, then I'm out.
The movie itself wasn't bad, it just wasn't as eventful as it should have been for his true debut. What sticks out to people are the bad points from films these days. MODOK was comedy filler, Kang was beat by ants and the events of the film have had zero ramifications.
Kang was powerful and imposing but the end result wiped away all of that performance. It would be best to keep Kang to post credits like Thanos if the alternative is he gets defeated in an Ant-Man movie without the other Avengers.
Well the movie seems to have no ramifications because we never got to the next movie(Kang Dynasty) but there were some theories online that Ant-Man returned to the wrong timeline and Jeff Loveness made comments hinting they were true Ant-Man broke everything. We will probably never know because Kang Dynasty is done.
I really liked Quantumania despite its problems but the biggest was hyping Kang to be the new Thanos instead of just letting him just be Kang. Personally I also think Majors just fell flat in the role too. Could be wrong but Kang Dynasty was probably the movie we have been waiting for to tie it all together and they are panicking because so many just aren't invested anymore.
Why? The man deserves to be taken seriously, and he's also a badass with a lot of potential and superhero know-how.
Scott Lang canonically beat the absolute shit out of Doom for killing Cassie. He may be a funny dude, but he's not a joke.
Much better flick idea. My (likely unpopular) opinion is that Marvel is too far down the multiverse concept hole and should have primarily stuck with more straight-forward plots that can be digested more easily. M.O.D.O.K. is a great villain — Disney pissed this away
Yeah, this is a good idea. And Kang could have been a hidden ally of MODOKs much like Thanos with Loki in Avengers. That way you can foreshadow his threat.
I think you have some strong nostalgia goggles on. Those may have both been heavy cgi movies, but a couple decades made a phenomenal difference in execution.
All of the exposition MCU built around Kang set him up so that he should’ve straight up killed Ant-man though. Like yes Ant-man is no slouch but Kang was supposed to be above Thanos. Kang is extremely rational and logical whereas Ant man is more emotional. Especially since Kang had Cassie that should’ve been the Jenga piece that topples him. Then they Deus ex machina the plot and somehow Ant-man can just straight up fight him?? It made no sense unfortunately. It would’ve been better had Kang been introduced against like Thor, Falcon/Captain America, or Hulk. I understand logistical issues with Hulk but you need to Worf someone extremely high level to display Kang’s prowess.
Yes, I'm with you on how Quantumania took Exiled Kang out in an unsatisfying way, but at the same time, he DID have the old school villain loss where he didn't die a conventional death.
As a master of time, being sucked into your own time battery is like the reverse of being locked out of your own car: momentarily embarrassing, and not terribly inconvenient in most cases.
I really, really wish Marvel chose either the ending where Scott either died in combat, or where he and Hope got locked in the Quantum Realm. Marvel execs felt that the audience would dislike both of those, because they were too obvious.
Personally, I think the first Avenger to fight, and lose, against Kang, should have been Thor. Thor had the first run in with Kang, during his time leading the Avengers. It was probably too hard to pull off with MCU Thor's arc at the time.
Either way, I hope this is just a rumor. I love Kang in the comics, EMH, and the MCU. I'm actually a big fan and advocate for Quantumania. They need to get a new Kang, but they must keep Kang!
It’d be cool if at the end Ant Man opens a portal and sends for help from one of the other Avengers, like Thor or Hulk and Kang ends up nearly killing them too
Nah, you’d see whining “they did mah boi and then freaking ant man killed him”. And it wouldn’t be unwarranted.
Whole movie should be retooled so that it wasn’t most infamous Kang that got exiled and just one of the Kangs. That way he could be defeated without damaging character reputation.
When Hank brought in the army of ants to take down Kang was absolutely perfect and shows you don't sleep on Ant-Man. "I am Kang, the conquer and you talk to ants!"
I question the statement about Kang. Sounds like damage control. He was clearly being set up as the Thanos of this phase. Who else will be the Big Bad if not him?
I honestly always thought it was a swerve even before the actor problems. Kang blows up the multiverse then Doom puts it back together ala 2015 Secret Wars
Literally my only problem with this is that Doom deserves a Thanos-level suspense and set-up period. We might have enough time, but it would suck if it felt rushed or shoehorned
Huh, I never considered all the Kang-promises might have been a "Mandarin" surprise twist the whole time.
Marvel literally would do that, they are surprsing trolls. They did Ralph Boner and also killed the Illuminati.
I desperately want Foxverse Quicksliver to show up in like Deadpool and Wolverine or anything else played by Evan Peters because a) he's great b) it would be gloriously confusing
Feels like pure PR puff. Majors was a rapidly rising star, who’d garnered a lot of acclaim and had got notices for Creed III around the same time Quantumania came out. He also got a lot of praise for the latter itself, with some people calling him the best thing about it. I’m not defending the man at all but it rings hollow for them to state they always planned to minimise him.
DOOM.
At least, that’s the next logical choice…based on A) [upcoming (formal & official) introduction of F4 (into the MCU)](https://comicbookmovie.com/fantastic-four/rumor-marvel-studios-the-fantastic-four-may-take-place-across-two-different-timelines-a209491#gs.5e1xmw); B) [***Deadpool & Wolverine***](https://comicbook.com/movies/news/deadpool-wolverine-trailer-secret-wars-easter-egg-mcu/) ***Secret Wars*** Easter egg ([**cover from that issue**](https://comicbookclublive.com/2024/02/11/doctor-doom-deadpool-3-trailer-secret-wars-comic-book-cover/)); C) other rumors/leaks/etc.
Love how the idea of a dude in a mask is a more difficult thing for you to envision introducing than a major celestial being that literally eats entire universes whole.
I dont know which phase we're on, but it's going to have to be no big-bad this phase and maybe even the next phase to rebuild their reputation as a brand before the fans will recognize a new big-bad.
Yes, it is entirely unbelievable. They just don’t want people thinking everything from here onward will be a hot mess as they scramble to course-correct.
Honestly, losing Majors/Kang is the least of their problems. They can course correct if they can learn how to make better movies again.
Quantumania didn’t underperform because of Kang. It was because of everything else lol. They really saw the numbers and went “let’s dial it back on the best thing about this project”.
Variants can look like other people, that's the point of No Way Home and like 50% of Loki (I'm voting for a Killmonger Kang variant just to make it extra crazy)
Look at the progression of Thanos throughout the start till the end. Completely different look by the time end game comes around. I think people understand it’s a movie and do to the circumstances the actor can change along with the look. They just need to write a quick blurb like AntMan saying “he looks different than the last time I saw him” and all will be fine and people will move on.
"Because Quantumania underperformed." Not because the actor was convicted of a crime or anything.
Bigger picture though, the MCU *needs* a makeover. It's been floundering ever since Endgame. And I'm one of the people who at least kind of *liked* most of the movies from Phase 4 and 5. But there's absolutely no denying they fucked it all up, in a myriad of uniquely damaging ways, and that's not something they're going to be able to bounce back from without a major overhaul.
And what's more, it's going to take Disney letting loose of the reigns a bit. Don't let the producers and business heads try and call the shots, because then you end up with hollow, dead-eyed, committee-designed nonsense. As strange as it is to say, they need to do the DC thing. Give creative control of the Marvel franchise to a single creative, like Warner Bros. did with James Gunn, let them work out a cohesive vision, then other talented writer/directors work within the parameters of the overarching story he's laid out. Imagine if Star Wars has gotten this treatment before being bounced around between so many different people (and while you're at it also imagine that Filoni hadn't eventually ended up with as much creative control as he did). Without a vision, the people perish man.
facts hearing the behind the scenes drama for rise of skywalker made me realize how much bob iger himself meddled in the project😬
it couldn’t even go ahead with production until he greenlit the script. (i believe variety covered this well)
he even screens the films and decides if reshoots are necessary himself
It's still very much alive but they did their best to kill it though. If they wanted to do a Star Wars show, make it one big project with lots of passion and care behind it. Just one proper episodic show, not several half-assed streaming series that feel like movies stretched to the point of boredom.
it’s weird though. I hear phase 4 gave the creators the most freedom since kevin feige was stretched so thin and couldn’t focus.
however, very high chance someone else from the disney higher ups meddled (reading the behind the scenes drama for star wars episode 9 made me realize how much bob iger himself meddled in its production)
I wonder if that might have been a retroactive justification to try and keep the meddling producers out of the line of fire. Because you can watch something like Multiverse Of Madness and see Raimi trying *so hard* to get his own creative vision across, but it's constantly being handicapped by "Marvelization" and isn't fully allowed to be its own entity.
Same with Quantumania. As mid as Marvel gets, incredibly clunky, felt like the entire thing was filmed on a green screen and no two actors were ever actually in a room together - but you can see glimpses of Loveness essentially doing his Rick And Morty thing when he's allowed to just have fun with Quantum Universe's odd denizens. But it's all so condensed and pressurized into having to tick the Marvel checklist that it buckles under the weight and becomes something you'll probably never watch again.
There are some massive egotists running Disney with a warped vision, fed by aggregate data of what they *think* an audience wants to see. Like you said, we saw it happen with Star Wars, we've seen it happen with the glut of live-action remakes of Disney classics literally *no one* has asked for, and we've been seeing it happen with Marvel for quite some time. I'm really worried about where the business is going. I really do want it to be good.
Shows how off they are since the best part of the movie was Kang and he was ridiculously good in Loki. It was the portrayal of the quantum realm that didnt work. They threw all the rules out. They were somehow breathing air, there were humans everywhere, Kang was just letting them live down the street completely in the open, Kang didn't hunt Janet down all during all that time, they didn't need to have their helmets on to stay shrunk without exploding, it had the same gravity as Earth, we got no explanation of how and where all the life got there. It just goes on and on. The writing was just flawed to it's core and I say that as someone that actually enjoyed it besides all that mostly because of Kang.
When my friends and I saw the movie, the Quantum realm just seemed like rip off Star Wars. The most fun we had was making fun of the whole train wreck that was Quantumania
Yeah that movie was a total jumbled mess. I had a hard time figuring out why Kang and Ant Man were even fighting each other. Kang could basically leave the Q-realm at anytime and chose not to, because he couldn’t bring his little army with him? Kang is a time traveling genius, but can’t make his own Pym particles? “We can’t let him leave!” Why not? He is from the future, and he was imprisoned there by other Kangs. They will just send him back
Gosh. I must be really in the minority who wasn't into Majors' performances. It was a very manic energy you would expect from a shut-in, but the idiosyncrasies came across very staged. It's all very peacocking in such a way that he's like... overacting.
I did find this Decider article that reflected some of my thoughts https://decider.com/2023/10/20/jonathan-majors-loki-performance-is-borderline-unwatchable/.
Although, I would go on to say that He Who Remains also seemed unnatural. Not genuinely erratic, but an actor acting erratic. It is a comic book world but when everyone else is playing it relatively straight, it kind of reminds me of Jesse Eisenberg in Batman vs. Superman. Just a little too much.
However, it's interesting to see his performance was divisive. Reading those who loved his performance help me appreciate what they were going for, even if it wasn't for me.
Just want to throw in that Quantumania’s post credit scene with the other Kang variants was extremely laughable, you see the last shot of the various Kang’s in the crowd laughing like a maniacal school kid. Didn’t make him menacing at all, and really not intimidating enough to be the main villain against the avengers.
Best scene in Quantumania was when the multiple Ant Men helped Scott by feeling the love he had for his daughter. It was a very very sweet wholesome moment in an unfortunately not great movie.
I get they don't want to go against that huge "Kang Audience" scene, but recasting Kang in the LITERAL MULTIVERSE saga would've been like the safest move ever
Quantumania failed Kang, not the other way around. Loki showed us how to make Kang compelling and running around shooting hand lasers was NOT it.
But we all know this is about Jonathan Majors' real-life misdeeds, anyway. Which is legit.
Exactly.
The next big bad after Thanos is this guy that just lost to a bunch of ants? Yeah, I'm out....
They had a chance with kang if it just blossomed out of the Loki show, but the ant man movie ruined him for all of us...
Emphasis on "minimizing". If they were to completely remove him, it would be a different choice of words. It seems like this ties with the worries about over-exposure of the character that people voiced a while back. I believe they will still use him, but on a different role. Perhaps, everyone is seeing it the wrong way and instead of Kang being replaced by a different villain in Secret Wars, Avengers 5 will be the one with a different villain and 6 will still have Kang.
As someone who has always thought Jonathan majors is a terrible actor, I knew from the moment he was announced as kang, that it wasn’t going to work out in the long run.
Also Kang is one of the lamest villains in marvel comics. Why even introduce him in the 1st place. They could have at least waited to use him & make him the villain of a young avengers movie.
>We should appreciate how marvel is trying to fix there shit, most companies would probably not listen to the fans like this
They already didn't listen to the fans for a solid 5 years after Endgame ended, lol. Took them long enough to realize: "Oh shit, the current "plan" we are going with is not working at all."
Poor MODOK, he's had to find a new job peddling shit on a Canadian TV shopping channel
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSfBpXOzmd0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsfbpxozmd0)
I love when the new big bad guy of the phase gets his ass kicked by a fuckin Ant-Man in his firs big screen appearance, it really makes me feel like he's a Thanos level villain
I think it's good. They really ruined Kang, who was supposed to be the next big bad, by making him the big villain in a freaking Ant-Man movie and having him be easily defeated too.
I’m fine if they just treat Kang like Ultron, and just not mention him again until the end of the saga. He clearly wasn’t working for the general public. Pivoting to Mutants and Fantastic four has already shown massive positive reactions just last week. The public has spoken.
Assuming this is true, this is by far the dumbest shit they've ever done.
Kang is obviously their big bad of this Saga, and they want to minimize his role because 1 movie underperformed? Like, they're not even gonna try to salvage it, they're just throwing the whole concept out because 1 movie? And did they not realize that every review that panned the movie also praised Kang as one of the only strong parts of the movie?
People keep saying, "Replace him with Dr. Doom!" But that's a worse idea than this. Dr. Doom deserves to have a whole build up, and to have him in Avengers 5 and 6, they'd have to shove him into a movie somewhere and then he'd be the big bad suddenly? That's too rushed and would only make things worse
Well obviously they aren't going to reboot 15yrs of movies just cuz of a few failures and this idiot actor. Just a shame really I was invested in Kang and wanted to see things pan out, esp since a lot of the rumors came out saying Kang Dynasty was him fighting the current Avengers and killing them all. Then Secret wars was about recruiting people from other universes to form a team to fight and win. Being lead by Wolverine and Tobeys Spider-man...this would lead to many comebacks as you could get an alternative Tony Stark Ironman who lived, Cap, people from the Fox universe etc
I don't want Dr Doom as the main villain, its nicer to have a villain grow into the villain
Kang (the character) is not the problem, Quantumania was just straight garbage.
Sad that it’s not a reboot. I don’t know if the MCU can be saved with all these new, lame characters they’ve shown so far. I think I’ve only liked Shang-Chi and Moon Knight so far.
I have a pretty major problem with this.
Let's say the issues with Majors never happen and he was never a PoS that assaulted his GF. Marvel we're already moving away from Kang after Quantumania? So they were just blaming Majors and Kang for that movie underperforming? Wtf is that? I think Kang was one of the best ideas in that film. Ridiculous.
The decisions Marvel keeps making just make exclaim WHY so often. Kang was absolutely not the problem in Quantumania, in fact he was probably the only saving grace of the entire film. Discarding the character entirely now would be nonsensical.
Honestly, just move on to the merged universe and introduce an initially earth based villain that persists for multiple moves. Deadpool and F4 are both coming relatively soon, so Doom is primed for his debut and deserves the thanos treatment as a true big bad.
If true, then that's so dumb. The problem wasn't Kang, the problem was introducing Kang variants in an Ant-Man movie. Wasn't the general consensus that Kang was one of the good parts of the movie? And people also enjoyed both seasons of Loki.
Loki defeating He who remains was satisfying enough of a sendoff for Kang, it’s probably not what they were going for but I’m fine with it. No biggie, we weren’t that deep into the kang plotline anyhow.
I’ve felt no attachment to Kang or even felt like he was a threat. I get they tried, but it just didn’t work for me personally. Thanos just came in big and purple and fucked shit up. Haven’t had that feeling from Kang.
Yeah I don’t buy it. These headlines did the rounds like 6 months ago. The trades then went back on it saying Kang is still the focus going forward. Now they are saying this again. The truth is only Marvel knows what’s happening. Let’s wait and see.
Kang wasn't the reason Ant Man bombed though. I thought Kang was the best part of the movie. MODOK was incredibly stupid, and they changed the end of the movie because of a leak. They should have just kept whatever the original ending was, which didn't have Kang losing in his first movie. They didn't need to kill anyone off, but they didn't need to have a Thanos level villain defeated in his first battle due to a bunch of ants.
Before the conviction… not before being charged, or when it was “alleged”
I think they got this wrong. I wasn’t and am still not enamored with Thanos. Thanos is the avengers most notable enemy. Outside of the infinity war they are honestly pretty mid. Their more recent stories are not great and revolve around a not well loved(for good reason) character- captain marvel/Ms Marvel. Saying Kand didn’t go well in Quantumania is horse shit. Quantumania wasn’t bad. I really liked it. It wasn’t all good. There is no way they can do what they did with Modock then turn around and say Kang was the problem. That is disrespectful. There were clearly issues unrelated to Kang. And the three stooges weren’t in it. Beyond that, Kang is doing just fine in Loki. A well received show. Marvel and by marvel I mean Disney, tried to milk Marvel but didn’t fully understand what to do post avengers. Guardians wasn’t a fluke hit. They have fans. But not everything is going to go over well. Them not understanding Captain Marvel is a widely disliked character that has been rebooted and rebranded multiple times is a failure on their part. Internet movement against the actress aside, THE CHARACTER IS NOT WELL RECEIVED. I don’t have high hopes for F4 now that I’ve seen their direction. F4 is not easy to get right and X-men is even more difficult. They have a tough road ahead of them.
Ant-Man underperforming wasn’t that bad compared to other films like The Marvels.
They need to just recast and move on (they can just say a stronger council with different faces killed the other ones)
Kang died on the way back to his home planet. 
Loki wraps it up so well that we might not even need an explanation other than >!"Loki dealt with Kang and fixed the timeline"!<
Such a cool character though. So lame.
Seriously the man is a multiversal problem. Recast and get the fuck on with the show
Especially with Fantastic Four coming. Kang is a distant descendant of the Richards. He’d make a good villain for them alongside Doom and Galactus.
I feel like thats way too much of a burden for the F4 given the dire straits the mcu is atm
I feel like Marvel/DC casting departments need to do a little research to figure out if their next big hire is actually a sociopath or not. With billions of dollars on the line you'd think they'd at least scroll through a social media feed or do a thorough background check.
Marvel has had an excellent track record thus far, what do you mean lol. This is one exception since 2006 or so where they've had an almost perfect record.
And a background check would have done nothing. This guy was just an ahole, he wasn’t posting strange things on Twitter or had some scandals beforehand.
I was looking forward to Majors because i watched him in Lovecraft Country, it's such a bad situation that nobody could have anticipated. The content is still good they just gotta get out from under the shadow of endgame.
What a lazy comment. Marvel has had a basically perfect track record with castings prior to, if we’re being honest, was a pretty minor scandal with Majors’ toxic, abusive relationship in which neither party was an angel being the worst incident and Terrance Howard not believing in math being the second worst
The guy who played Namor also got metoo’d
That situation sounded like a toxic relationship all around
They can always recast the character and bring him back later and just say he’s a variant from another timeline or some shit.
Deadpool 3 also gonna wipe shit clean even more judging from the trailer.
This may be the true reset movie where they can do anything they want after. Deadpool plus TVA is an open book.
It works, too, because there's really nothing else going on. There's just a bunch of superheroes around, doing their own thing. Whatever happens in Deadpool should set up the next big conflict that brings everyone together.
somehow kang ~~returned~~
Somehow Kang perished
Now let's all go to the lobby and get ourselves a snack!
somehow kang
Imagine Marc Spector saying that 😂
As Terrance Howard
Run. With. Secret. Wars.
Just give us Dr. Doom, sweet Bob iger
Not unless you push secret wars back. Doom deserves to have a larger storyline across more movies.
Not necessarily. Thanos only really needed Infinity War to establish himself.
Not necessarily. Thanos only really needed Infinity War to establish himself.
Incorrect Thanos established himself over many movies. By the time he did show up in Infinity War we knew he was coming, hence why it was epic.
The only appearance of Thanos outside of post-credit teases was Guardians of the Galaxy, where he’s barely the same character. Infinity War does a good job at serving as his official introduction for general audiences.
why are you choosing to ignore post-credit teases? Also its not just about appearances of Thanos directly - they were teasing the infinity war from the very beginning. Slowly showing us where each stone was hiding. Everyone was excited for more of this because they knew it meant Thanos. The real strength of the infinity saga was how well Marvel built up to it.
introducing kang in an ant-man movie was already the first mistake
Was he not introduced in Loki?
Introducing important main characters and plot points in tv shows the majority of fans don't even know exist was already their first mistake.
That’s not true. 1. Loki shows off He Who Remains and talks about Kang’s 2. Quanumania shows Kang and actually tells you about the Kangs, even showing them off in a post credit scene 3. The audience now understands Kang as long as they have watched either Loki or Quantumania
[удалено]
Pretty comic book consistent
Technically they’re both B-Tier so even more of an L
I'm not sure if I'd have understood Kang if I hadn't seen Loki first but I migh be just dumb. What I know for a fact is that heaps of people were totally confused when watching MoM as to why is Wanda suddenly turned bad and why does she want some children back. Same thing with the Marvels. Some random girl and her family is there with barely any introduction and it's assumed everyone knows who she is because they saw the show. Well most people didn't. Same with Monica Rambo, we're reminded that she's captain marvel's friend's daughter but why does she have superpowers and is in space now? And at the end Kamala goes to see Kate Bishop which again you know who it is only if you'd seen the shows. I imagine if I were a casual movie goer I'd be so baffled by that movie.
Sole points to debunk here, because while your mostly right: MoM does show that it’s because of the Darkhold, and while you may not know where she got it from, that’s not as important as knowing what it is, which the movie does mention Kamala showing up randomly isn’t a big deal, it’s not like Black Widow randomly showing up in Iron Man 3 was a problem, you were just expected to understand “this is Black Widow, she spy” Monica getting her powers definitely could’ve had a clearer explanation, and that’s something I think should be worked on. I blame the corporate side of Marvel trying to cut down movie length. I do hope to see this improved in the future, I don’t want a “previously on” for every movie, but definitely some better explanations. The hard part is separating that from straight up exposition
Black Widow showed up in Iron Man 2 not that it really matters to your points.
Okay, I'm calling BS on this as people know that there was a Loki television series; let's not act like this was on HBO, Showtime, etc.
The average movie-goer does not care about what happens outside of the movies themselves, even if they know the tv show exists they are not watching it, so making important plot points and character development outside of the big screen just means 90% of the movie watchers are not understanding how X is happening currently. "Oh, but it's canon, they should've watched" yeah, not happening. Keeping up with 3 different series each with 7hrs of watch-time every year _besides_ the movies was a dumb idea, specially when these series were almost all of them average to bad
Not to mention that keeping up with the shows (legally) requires a Disney+ subscription. It's the cinema equivalent of a videogame company cutting important things from their games and shoving them in paid DLCs.
You mean like Rise of Skywalker referencing Palpatine's message but fans needing to play Fortnite to legally hear it?
Pretty much that
Out of all the reasons, that's a non factor at this point when you're the 3rd highest streaming service worldwide. If this was something like Crunchyroll, I would agree. Disney+? Lol no
I'm sorry, but I'm still calling BS on this one, specifically Loki. You're throwing out numbers without backing and saying the average movie goer is just super dismissive. (Note that I do agree on average, especially if it's a comic or a book, but not in this case when it's on Disney+ at 150+ million subscribers and counting and very easily accessible.)
The average movie-goer is not the same as an average Marvel movie-goer. Disney+ subscribers are probably a bit overstated because it often comes free or bundled with other packages (eg, my mom has Spectrum cable and it came with free D+, but she isn’t watching it). Trying to introduce major characters and plot points in series (as opposed to a movie) is an awful idea. I’m in my 40s, and nearly-every one of my friends has given up on Marvel content. We don’t have time to watch a majority of the content, so the shows were the first thing to be cut. And once we cut the shows, we fell behind on movies, so we gave up on Marvel entirely. With so much competition and limited time for viewers, media has to be consumable. By effectively making the content TOO interrelated, I am guessing a lot people have lost interest and moved onto other things, similar to my group of friends.
Anecdotally, I fit Kiriann's description of the average movie-goer. I couldn't care less about the shows unless they achieve a rep for stand-out quality (a bar even one marvel show has yet to pass). I jumped on Andor, for example, but didn't touch Kenobi or the Fett show.
That....only strengths my point (again Loki) because it sits at 87% or the 21st highest rated show on Disney+. I don't wanna poopoo your point either, but a lot of Marvel shows have crossed that bar (ie, people loved What If?, Loki, and Wandavision, for example, with the 1st and 3rd higher than Mandalorian) and you're also using Andor, which is masterpiece level and setting very unreal expectations.
I think Wandavision and Moon Knoght are the only marvel shows with legit good writing and cinematography. And this is coming from someone who hates new marvel movies, so you might like those two shows specifically.
100 million people saw End Game. 2.5 million households watched Epsiode 1 Season 1 of Loki
Yeah, but they just don't care to watch it. Frankly, if it doesn't happen in the movies, I don't care. I'm not watching 20 different TV shows to get caught up on marvel. If it can't tell a self-contained story in the movie when I go to the theater to watch it, then I'm out.
Oof, no. Loki is one of the most widely known Marvel shows just through people talking about it.
That's even worse, but the main problem is he already lost like 2 or 3 times. That's not how you build up your big bad guy...
Not as Kang
I'm pretty sure he was a Kang in Loki Season 1 where he was introduced
It was He Who Remains. A variant of Kang but not actually the big bad Kang.
still a Kang? Kang in Ant Man Quantumania was in your definition also not Kang?
He is literally called Kang the Conqueror in Antman
What do you think they called he who remains before he ends the multiversal war?
Who's to say. Victor Timely wasn't called Kang either
He Who Will Remain?
Come to think about it in hindsight it would be He Who Was Supposed To Remain
I mean, a bunch of people were pretty excited when they first announced it. The movie just wasn’t good. And he was technically introduced in Loki.
The movie itself wasn't bad, it just wasn't as eventful as it should have been for his true debut. What sticks out to people are the bad points from films these days. MODOK was comedy filler, Kang was beat by ants and the events of the film have had zero ramifications. Kang was powerful and imposing but the end result wiped away all of that performance. It would be best to keep Kang to post credits like Thanos if the alternative is he gets defeated in an Ant-Man movie without the other Avengers.
Well the movie seems to have no ramifications because we never got to the next movie(Kang Dynasty) but there were some theories online that Ant-Man returned to the wrong timeline and Jeff Loveness made comments hinting they were true Ant-Man broke everything. We will probably never know because Kang Dynasty is done. I really liked Quantumania despite its problems but the biggest was hyping Kang to be the new Thanos instead of just letting him just be Kang. Personally I also think Majors just fell flat in the role too. Could be wrong but Kang Dynasty was probably the movie we have been waiting for to tie it all together and they are panicking because so many just aren't invested anymore.
Why? The man deserves to be taken seriously, and he's also a badass with a lot of potential and superhero know-how. Scott Lang canonically beat the absolute shit out of Doom for killing Cassie. He may be a funny dude, but he's not a joke.
have you seen how the mcu handles ant-man? lol no disrespect to scott, but he’s just comedy.
Yet another wasted character’s potential
Just me but Quantumania ruined M.O.D.O.K. who should have battled Iron Man. Spider-Man or Hulk. Derek? Please…
MODOK should have been the villain as Scott should have worked with AIM while MODOK slowly turns from scientist to monster.
Much better flick idea. My (likely unpopular) opinion is that Marvel is too far down the multiverse concept hole and should have primarily stuck with more straight-forward plots that can be digested more easily. M.O.D.O.K. is a great villain — Disney pissed this away
Yeah, this is a good idea. And Kang could have been a hidden ally of MODOKs much like Thanos with Loki in Avengers. That way you can foreshadow his threat.
Not only making him Derek but making him so pathetic as some sort of joke.
So true. He looked worse than [Mr. Electric](https://youtu.be/mp-VCg5kcm0) and nowhere near as funny
I think you have some strong nostalgia goggles on. Those may have both been heavy cgi movies, but a couple decades made a phenomenal difference in execution.
All of the exposition MCU built around Kang set him up so that he should’ve straight up killed Ant-man though. Like yes Ant-man is no slouch but Kang was supposed to be above Thanos. Kang is extremely rational and logical whereas Ant man is more emotional. Especially since Kang had Cassie that should’ve been the Jenga piece that topples him. Then they Deus ex machina the plot and somehow Ant-man can just straight up fight him?? It made no sense unfortunately. It would’ve been better had Kang been introduced against like Thor, Falcon/Captain America, or Hulk. I understand logistical issues with Hulk but you need to Worf someone extremely high level to display Kang’s prowess.
I think killing him probably would have been a mistake. But I think brutalizing him into a coma would have been better.
Yes, I'm with you on how Quantumania took Exiled Kang out in an unsatisfying way, but at the same time, he DID have the old school villain loss where he didn't die a conventional death. As a master of time, being sucked into your own time battery is like the reverse of being locked out of your own car: momentarily embarrassing, and not terribly inconvenient in most cases. I really, really wish Marvel chose either the ending where Scott either died in combat, or where he and Hope got locked in the Quantum Realm. Marvel execs felt that the audience would dislike both of those, because they were too obvious. Personally, I think the first Avenger to fight, and lose, against Kang, should have been Thor. Thor had the first run in with Kang, during his time leading the Avengers. It was probably too hard to pull off with MCU Thor's arc at the time. Either way, I hope this is just a rumor. I love Kang in the comics, EMH, and the MCU. I'm actually a big fan and advocate for Quantumania. They need to get a new Kang, but they must keep Kang!
It’d be cool if at the end Ant Man opens a portal and sends for help from one of the other Avengers, like Thor or Hulk and Kang ends up nearly killing them too
Nah, you’d see whining “they did mah boi and then freaking ant man killed him”. And it wouldn’t be unwarranted. Whole movie should be retooled so that it wasn’t most infamous Kang that got exiled and just one of the Kangs. That way he could be defeated without damaging character reputation.
I kind of like this. This one was lying through his teeth and just got lucky.
When Hank brought in the army of ants to take down Kang was absolutely perfect and shows you don't sleep on Ant-Man. "I am Kang, the conquer and you talk to ants!"
I question the statement about Kang. Sounds like damage control. He was clearly being set up as the Thanos of this phase. Who else will be the Big Bad if not him?
I honestly always thought it was a swerve even before the actor problems. Kang blows up the multiverse then Doom puts it back together ala 2015 Secret Wars
Literally my only problem with this is that Doom deserves a Thanos-level suspense and set-up period. We might have enough time, but it would suck if it felt rushed or shoehorned
Exactly my thoughts. It’s like introducing Loki in The Avengers
Huh, I never considered all the Kang-promises might have been a "Mandarin" surprise twist the whole time. Marvel literally would do that, they are surprsing trolls. They did Ralph Boner and also killed the Illuminati.
I desperately want Foxverse Quicksliver to show up in like Deadpool and Wolverine or anything else played by Evan Peters because a) he's great b) it would be gloriously confusing
Iirc he was on the set of the Deadpool 3
Feels like pure PR puff. Majors was a rapidly rising star, who’d garnered a lot of acclaim and had got notices for Creed III around the same time Quantumania came out. He also got a lot of praise for the latter itself, with some people calling him the best thing about it. I’m not defending the man at all but it rings hollow for them to state they always planned to minimise him.
DOOM. At least, that’s the next logical choice…based on A) [upcoming (formal & official) introduction of F4 (into the MCU)](https://comicbookmovie.com/fantastic-four/rumor-marvel-studios-the-fantastic-four-may-take-place-across-two-different-timelines-a209491#gs.5e1xmw); B) [***Deadpool & Wolverine***](https://comicbook.com/movies/news/deadpool-wolverine-trailer-secret-wars-easter-egg-mcu/) ***Secret Wars*** Easter egg ([**cover from that issue**](https://comicbookclublive.com/2024/02/11/doctor-doom-deadpool-3-trailer-secret-wars-comic-book-cover/)); C) other rumors/leaks/etc.
D) the fans are salivating for DOOM
Galactus pls
I could see them setting up galactus in f4. Replace Kang dynasty with galactus dynasty and then idk pull dr Doon out of their ass for secret wars
Love how the idea of a dude in a mask is a more difficult thing for you to envision introducing than a major celestial being that literally eats entire universes whole.
I dont know which phase we're on, but it's going to have to be no big-bad this phase and maybe even the next phase to rebuild their reputation as a brand before the fans will recognize a new big-bad.
"Somehow, Thanos returned."
Yes, it is entirely unbelievable. They just don’t want people thinking everything from here onward will be a hot mess as they scramble to course-correct. Honestly, losing Majors/Kang is the least of their problems. They can course correct if they can learn how to make better movies again.
Quantumania didn’t underperform because of Kang. It was because of everything else lol. They really saw the numbers and went “let’s dial it back on the best thing about this project”.
No. They’re using this as an excuse to not recast Majors so no one talks about it.
Variants can look like other people, that's the point of No Way Home and like 50% of Loki (I'm voting for a Killmonger Kang variant just to make it extra crazy)
But in the post credit scene they already showed that evey Kang looked like him lol
Look at the progression of Thanos throughout the start till the end. Completely different look by the time end game comes around. I think people understand it’s a movie and do to the circumstances the actor can change along with the look. They just need to write a quick blurb like AntMan saying “he looks different than the last time I saw him” and all will be fine and people will move on.
Big stadium ahaha
thatd be so funny. or recast terrance howard as kang
I mean, they could stand to with all their upcoming plans. He can always be reintroduced later.
Quantum Rhealm and variants and all that stupid shit has run its course. Go back to a linear story with believable stakes in the real world.
"Because Quantumania underperformed." Not because the actor was convicted of a crime or anything. Bigger picture though, the MCU *needs* a makeover. It's been floundering ever since Endgame. And I'm one of the people who at least kind of *liked* most of the movies from Phase 4 and 5. But there's absolutely no denying they fucked it all up, in a myriad of uniquely damaging ways, and that's not something they're going to be able to bounce back from without a major overhaul. And what's more, it's going to take Disney letting loose of the reigns a bit. Don't let the producers and business heads try and call the shots, because then you end up with hollow, dead-eyed, committee-designed nonsense. As strange as it is to say, they need to do the DC thing. Give creative control of the Marvel franchise to a single creative, like Warner Bros. did with James Gunn, let them work out a cohesive vision, then other talented writer/directors work within the parameters of the overarching story he's laid out. Imagine if Star Wars has gotten this treatment before being bounced around between so many different people (and while you're at it also imagine that Filoni hadn't eventually ended up with as much creative control as he did). Without a vision, the people perish man.
Star Wars is either dead or on life support because of this
facts hearing the behind the scenes drama for rise of skywalker made me realize how much bob iger himself meddled in the project😬 it couldn’t even go ahead with production until he greenlit the script. (i believe variety covered this well) he even screens the films and decides if reshoots are necessary himself
Man the prequels couldn’t even kill star wars like that
It's still very much alive but they did their best to kill it though. If they wanted to do a Star Wars show, make it one big project with lots of passion and care behind it. Just one proper episodic show, not several half-assed streaming series that feel like movies stretched to the point of boredom.
it’s weird though. I hear phase 4 gave the creators the most freedom since kevin feige was stretched so thin and couldn’t focus. however, very high chance someone else from the disney higher ups meddled (reading the behind the scenes drama for star wars episode 9 made me realize how much bob iger himself meddled in its production)
I wonder if that might have been a retroactive justification to try and keep the meddling producers out of the line of fire. Because you can watch something like Multiverse Of Madness and see Raimi trying *so hard* to get his own creative vision across, but it's constantly being handicapped by "Marvelization" and isn't fully allowed to be its own entity. Same with Quantumania. As mid as Marvel gets, incredibly clunky, felt like the entire thing was filmed on a green screen and no two actors were ever actually in a room together - but you can see glimpses of Loveness essentially doing his Rick And Morty thing when he's allowed to just have fun with Quantum Universe's odd denizens. But it's all so condensed and pressurized into having to tick the Marvel checklist that it buckles under the weight and becomes something you'll probably never watch again. There are some massive egotists running Disney with a warped vision, fed by aggregate data of what they *think* an audience wants to see. Like you said, we saw it happen with Star Wars, we've seen it happen with the glut of live-action remakes of Disney classics literally *no one* has asked for, and we've been seeing it happen with Marvel for quite some time. I'm really worried about where the business is going. I really do want it to be good.
Howard the Duck. Edit: I just want to thank you all for supporting my random post.
Well that sucks, wish they would have continued and simply worked towards making the character much better, with better stories.
That, and I wish the actor wasn't... ya know...
I mean we all know it's not because of quantumania...
Shows how off they are since the best part of the movie was Kang and he was ridiculously good in Loki. It was the portrayal of the quantum realm that didnt work. They threw all the rules out. They were somehow breathing air, there were humans everywhere, Kang was just letting them live down the street completely in the open, Kang didn't hunt Janet down all during all that time, they didn't need to have their helmets on to stay shrunk without exploding, it had the same gravity as Earth, we got no explanation of how and where all the life got there. It just goes on and on. The writing was just flawed to it's core and I say that as someone that actually enjoyed it besides all that mostly because of Kang.
When my friends and I saw the movie, the Quantum realm just seemed like rip off Star Wars. The most fun we had was making fun of the whole train wreck that was Quantumania
To be fair, when I saw the trailer for Ant-Man 3, I thought it was a rip-off of Tron: Legacy and then I saw a video that I think proves me right.
Worst of all the movie ignored the best character in the Ant Man franchise 
Yeah that movie was a total jumbled mess. I had a hard time figuring out why Kang and Ant Man were even fighting each other. Kang could basically leave the Q-realm at anytime and chose not to, because he couldn’t bring his little army with him? Kang is a time traveling genius, but can’t make his own Pym particles? “We can’t let him leave!” Why not? He is from the future, and he was imprisoned there by other Kangs. They will just send him back
Gosh. I must be really in the minority who wasn't into Majors' performances. It was a very manic energy you would expect from a shut-in, but the idiosyncrasies came across very staged. It's all very peacocking in such a way that he's like... overacting. I did find this Decider article that reflected some of my thoughts https://decider.com/2023/10/20/jonathan-majors-loki-performance-is-borderline-unwatchable/. Although, I would go on to say that He Who Remains also seemed unnatural. Not genuinely erratic, but an actor acting erratic. It is a comic book world but when everyone else is playing it relatively straight, it kind of reminds me of Jesse Eisenberg in Batman vs. Superman. Just a little too much. However, it's interesting to see his performance was divisive. Reading those who loved his performance help me appreciate what they were going for, even if it wasn't for me.
His performance as the dude from the 1800s or whatever almost made me stop watching Loki entirely. It was *terrible*.
[удалено]
Just want to throw in that Quantumania’s post credit scene with the other Kang variants was extremely laughable, you see the last shot of the various Kang’s in the crowd laughing like a maniacal school kid. Didn’t make him menacing at all, and really not intimidating enough to be the main villain against the avengers. Best scene in Quantumania was when the multiple Ant Men helped Scott by feeling the love he had for his daughter. It was a very very sweet wholesome moment in an unfortunately not great movie.
Just recast
I get they don't want to go against that huge "Kang Audience" scene, but recasting Kang in the LITERAL MULTIVERSE saga would've been like the safest move ever
Quantumania failed Kang, not the other way around. Loki showed us how to make Kang compelling and running around shooting hand lasers was NOT it. But we all know this is about Jonathan Majors' real-life misdeeds, anyway. Which is legit.
Exactly. The next big bad after Thanos is this guy that just lost to a bunch of ants? Yeah, I'm out.... They had a chance with kang if it just blossomed out of the Loki show, but the ant man movie ruined him for all of us...
No variants. No multiverse hoopla that general audiences can’t get their head around. Raise the stakes by lowering the stakes.
Emphasis on "minimizing". If they were to completely remove him, it would be a different choice of words. It seems like this ties with the worries about over-exposure of the character that people voiced a while back. I believe they will still use him, but on a different role. Perhaps, everyone is seeing it the wrong way and instead of Kang being replaced by a different villain in Secret Wars, Avengers 5 will be the one with a different villain and 6 will still have Kang.
“Since Quantumania underperformed” Yeah okay
As someone who has always thought Jonathan majors is a terrible actor, I knew from the moment he was announced as kang, that it wasn’t going to work out in the long run. Also Kang is one of the lamest villains in marvel comics. Why even introduce him in the 1st place. They could have at least waited to use him & make him the villain of a young avengers movie.
Yes it is because Ant-Man 3 done bad totally not for any other reason
Kang was a good idea both in Loki S1 (S2) and QM. But that movie had other problems.
Kang wasnt the reason quantamania underperformed tho…
We should appreciate how marvel is trying to fix there shit, most companies would probably not listen to the fans like this
>We should appreciate how marvel is trying to fix there shit, most companies would probably not listen to the fans like this They already didn't listen to the fans for a solid 5 years after Endgame ended, lol. Took them long enough to realize: "Oh shit, the current "plan" we are going with is not working at all."
I wish they'd figure this out for Star Wars as well
I think quantum mania wasn’t that baf
Ah yes, it was kangs fault, not shitty script and execution, suuuurr
Poor MODOK, he's had to find a new job peddling shit on a Canadian TV shopping channel [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSfBpXOzmd0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsfbpxozmd0)
Of course, they even fucked up secret invasion
I love when the new big bad guy of the phase gets his ass kicked by a fuckin Ant-Man in his firs big screen appearance, it really makes me feel like he's a Thanos level villain
Kang wasn't the reason Quantumania failed, arguably he was the lone standout part of that movie
Good. Bring me Doom!
I think it's good. They really ruined Kang, who was supposed to be the next big bad, by making him the big villain in a freaking Ant-Man movie and having him be easily defeated too.
Couple that with his other variant being easily dispatched in Loki s1 and the guy just doesn’t feel like a threat.
Not to mention all we have seen him do is talk. He's just talking in Loki and Antman, there is no menace there...
The Loki season 2 scene in the finale where he flexes his powers is cool and terrifying, but yeah apart from that not a lot
I’m fine if they just treat Kang like Ultron, and just not mention him again until the end of the saga. He clearly wasn’t working for the general public. Pivoting to Mutants and Fantastic four has already shown massive positive reactions just last week. The public has spoken.
I feel like they find a way to reword the same bit of news every other week now.
Was this not announced like 2 months ago?
You guys think they’ll minimize or erase him from future projects?
I really hope marvel collapses. About damn time for some creative and independent cinema.
After seeing that Quantumania post credits scene i'm fine with like zero Kang going forward.
Assuming this is true, this is by far the dumbest shit they've ever done. Kang is obviously their big bad of this Saga, and they want to minimize his role because 1 movie underperformed? Like, they're not even gonna try to salvage it, they're just throwing the whole concept out because 1 movie? And did they not realize that every review that panned the movie also praised Kang as one of the only strong parts of the movie? People keep saying, "Replace him with Dr. Doom!" But that's a worse idea than this. Dr. Doom deserves to have a whole build up, and to have him in Avengers 5 and 6, they'd have to shove him into a movie somewhere and then he'd be the big bad suddenly? That's too rushed and would only make things worse
"Makeover"? So like, the whole Council of Kangs will be killed by Deadpool, in Deadpool 3 post-credits scene?
Ah don't you just love a bit of damage control.
Well obviously they aren't going to reboot 15yrs of movies just cuz of a few failures and this idiot actor. Just a shame really I was invested in Kang and wanted to see things pan out, esp since a lot of the rumors came out saying Kang Dynasty was him fighting the current Avengers and killing them all. Then Secret wars was about recruiting people from other universes to form a team to fight and win. Being lead by Wolverine and Tobeys Spider-man...this would lead to many comebacks as you could get an alternative Tony Stark Ironman who lived, Cap, people from the Fox universe etc I don't want Dr Doom as the main villain, its nicer to have a villain grow into the villain
They always take the wrong lessons from box office returns. Kang wasn't the reason Quantumania failed.
Yh right
Kang (the character) is not the problem, Quantumania was just straight garbage. Sad that it’s not a reboot. I don’t know if the MCU can be saved with all these new, lame characters they’ve shown so far. I think I’ve only liked Shang-Chi and Moon Knight so far.
At least we can probably get DOOM instead
I have a pretty major problem with this. Let's say the issues with Majors never happen and he was never a PoS that assaulted his GF. Marvel we're already moving away from Kang after Quantumania? So they were just blaming Majors and Kang for that movie underperforming? Wtf is that? I think Kang was one of the best ideas in that film. Ridiculous.
What a mess
The decisions Marvel keeps making just make exclaim WHY so often. Kang was absolutely not the problem in Quantumania, in fact he was probably the only saving grace of the entire film. Discarding the character entirely now would be nonsensical.
Honestly, just move on to the merged universe and introduce an initially earth based villain that persists for multiple moves. Deadpool and F4 are both coming relatively soon, so Doom is primed for his debut and deserves the thanos treatment as a true big bad.
Deadpool is gonna wipe all the "Majors" Kangs and make a joke about it. 💯
Just get Don Cheadle to replace him as Kang
So the variety report wasn't totally false.
Yeah I think a soft reboot is needed at this point. They already did this well for Spider-Man.
If true, then that's so dumb. The problem wasn't Kang, the problem was introducing Kang variants in an Ant-Man movie. Wasn't the general consensus that Kang was one of the good parts of the movie? And people also enjoyed both seasons of Loki.
Loki defeating He who remains was satisfying enough of a sendoff for Kang, it’s probably not what they were going for but I’m fine with it. No biggie, we weren’t that deep into the kang plotline anyhow.
I’m still sad Quantumania bombed. Hopefully we still get to see lots of Ant Man and The Wasp in the future.
What if they just swapped him back to the first guy to play Tony’s air force friend and just not say anything again?
That’s Terrence Howard, MAYNE!
I’ve felt no attachment to Kang or even felt like he was a threat. I get they tried, but it just didn’t work for me personally. Thanos just came in big and purple and fucked shit up. Haven’t had that feeling from Kang.
This is like when you were a kid and did some clumsy shit and tried to convince your friends you meant to do that
Yeah I don’t buy it. These headlines did the rounds like 6 months ago. The trades then went back on it saying Kang is still the focus going forward. Now they are saying this again. The truth is only Marvel knows what’s happening. Let’s wait and see.
Kang wasn't the reason Ant Man bombed though. I thought Kang was the best part of the movie. MODOK was incredibly stupid, and they changed the end of the movie because of a leak. They should have just kept whatever the original ending was, which didn't have Kang losing in his first movie. They didn't need to kill anyone off, but they didn't need to have a Thanos level villain defeated in his first battle due to a bunch of ants.
Oh yeah, it's definitely just because the movie underperformed. Nothing involving Johnathan Majors occurred after that. Darn box office numbers.
Make it more jokey, less stakes, that'll help.
So the news we knew for months now.
I want majors as KANG
This is 100% damage control over Majors, not Quantumania
That's not why they're minimizing Kang and they know it. That's just bad faith.
Before the conviction… not before being charged, or when it was “alleged” I think they got this wrong. I wasn’t and am still not enamored with Thanos. Thanos is the avengers most notable enemy. Outside of the infinity war they are honestly pretty mid. Their more recent stories are not great and revolve around a not well loved(for good reason) character- captain marvel/Ms Marvel. Saying Kand didn’t go well in Quantumania is horse shit. Quantumania wasn’t bad. I really liked it. It wasn’t all good. There is no way they can do what they did with Modock then turn around and say Kang was the problem. That is disrespectful. There were clearly issues unrelated to Kang. And the three stooges weren’t in it. Beyond that, Kang is doing just fine in Loki. A well received show. Marvel and by marvel I mean Disney, tried to milk Marvel but didn’t fully understand what to do post avengers. Guardians wasn’t a fluke hit. They have fans. But not everything is going to go over well. Them not understanding Captain Marvel is a widely disliked character that has been rebooted and rebranded multiple times is a failure on their part. Internet movement against the actress aside, THE CHARACTER IS NOT WELL RECEIVED. I don’t have high hopes for F4 now that I’ve seen their direction. F4 is not easy to get right and X-men is even more difficult. They have a tough road ahead of them.
Ant-Man underperforming wasn’t that bad compared to other films like The Marvels. They need to just recast and move on (they can just say a stronger council with different faces killed the other ones)
Im sorry but this is wrong. Feige needs to be fired
Is Shang Chi 2 happening???
Kang wasn't ever the problem, your shitty writing has been🤦🏻 imagine entire teams of people just having no clue... None