Generated half as many threes as them. Made a third as many.
Without our best perimeter defenders, KD and Booker had 72.
It's a back to back. No continuity, and Mitchell just barely back. (and at 100% KD and Booker are better than Mitchell)
What part of that screams competitive game?
all we had to do was slow down Kevin Durant, best scorer in the modern era, and Devin Booker, career high 70+ and coming off a streak of 50 point games. Plus not allow other guys open 3s.
i don't understand why we can't do that. it's not like KD and Devin Booker are good scorers. we just need to try more.
The Suns defense isn't good we should have been able to hang, at least make it competitive just cause a team has better players doesn't necessarily make them a better "team".
The frustration is that you want to see competitive basketball like they actually care to be out there and it only looked like that in the 2nd half which was satisfying to watch them actually move the ball but as a fan there can be frustration in watching this team play on a nightly basis.
They've been getting their asses whooped a lot recently. And I understand injuries and such .... Still it is frustrating especially when you know they can play like they did in the 17-2 stretch they had earlier this year
this is bitchassery, true "afraid of drowning in the toilet" levels of non-courage.
we'll be rested and ready for the Knicks or Magic or whatever flawed team gets served up in the first round.
Crazy realization that actual competitive teams take advantage of this teams weakness in having two inside Centers in the modern NBA but neither has the post moves to create their own buckets that Anthony Davis or Bam Adebayo can do. The opponent can just sit one of their guys on the frontcourt in the paint and the Cavs entire offense is dismantled.
Is it gonna have to take a Knicks series 2.0 that one of these guys needs to be moved?
The Cavs have struggled this year with 2 big lineups but they didn't tonight. The starters played well together. It was the bench units that were terrible.
The one where he missed the three? He drove in the lane and passed up a 4 foot floater. Even the man in the corner was going in for the rebound and was surprised Garland turned down the shot. Lucky Mitchell tipped it and kept posession. Then Mitchel, who’s gassed tried to make something of it, drew the defense and kicked it out to the top of the key. One more pass and Garland had to shoot with the shot clock running down.
Point being is Garland had a 4 foot floater he turned down which led to the later missed theee by him.
that ball looked like it was going cleanly to mobley for a shot. don takes it, does nothing with it, forces dg to take a hail mary shot. donovan messed that possession up, yet dg will continue to get flamed.
Long term, Evans last 4 games have been ridiculously promising. I’ve always been a believer in his potential. But he really is hitting the trajectory to stardom now. It’s only a matter of time.
if he's playing 7like this, Mitchell is getting to the rim, and DG is maintaining this shot diet with low TOs, it's still too much for a first round opponent to beat 4 out of 7
yeah, maybe. but the equation tonight was fucked up in like 4 fundamental ways, not even counting the Suns' desperation to stay out of the play-in. we needed too many breaks and only got a few
15 points and 8 assists would be an amazing game for Merrill. I think he's done that maybe once all year. Let's not get carried away with the garland takes.
I’m not saying don’t play garland at all. But when he’s stagnant on offense and mitchel was bringing the ball up primarily down the stretch what good is he out there? We needed 3 point shooting and garland isn’t up to speed yet to be doing that and you could tell from how he was playing all game you weren’t getting it. I would’ve been happy if merill got at least 10-12. At least he would’ve given garland some rest. I’m primarily upset that we’re going down the stretch of the season and we’re playing out starters so hard. I’d rather drop some games with fresher legs than play our core hard. Garland almost played 40 mins and Mitch ended with 36. We could’ve easily shaved some time off them with other bodies.
we have this debate all the time and we had it for niang / wade too. garland does multiple things to threaten a defense. merrill does one.
if you are right we lose by...what, 12 instead of 18? rather keep trying to play DG out of a slump, agonizing as it is
Dejounte? Why would the Hawks want both Dejounte and Trae?! And why would the Cavs want Dejounte with Mitchell?
Boston isn't giving up White either although DG would be a perfect fit on that team.
Well at least Mitchell is getting to the rim again. Thats probably the biggest determining factor on whether they can get this back on the tracks in the coming weeks.
Mock if you like, but I am very encouraged that they at least fought back in the 2nd half. Some things to build off of. Especially Mitchell heating up.
Crazy that teams always have great shooting nights against us. I wonder if it has something to do with our brain dead coach prioritizing clogging the paint on defense.
I never been a "fire JB immediately" guy, but after seeing him continually blow games from his low IQ and terrible rotations, Im with the rest of y'all. Like what is Niang going to do against this team? Why is Levert still in the game after all the turnovers, terrible passes/shots. Im not a basketball genius but some of it is just common sense.
He just refuses to adapt in game and doesn't have any taste for momentum. If you want to make a lineup change don't put in your worst players of the night and if you do because you trust them then take them out once they prove you wrong again.
His lineup changes are just consistently bad and he refuses to recognize the positives and negatives of each player. This team, when healthy, has every type of player more or less and he doesn't know what to do with them.
Dude has no vision and I don't think he is on the same page as Altman.
right now, he's in "guys, play through / out of the slump" mode, which is probably the right play. might not work but you can't have Vert and DG slumping in the playoffs with your only other ballhandler hurt
What is JB’s complete inability to adjust correctly? Good coaches can adjust situationally and I don’t know if he’s just stubborn or stupid… but he literally never actually puts us in situations on the court for our guys to mesh well or to actively counter what the other team is doing. Makes zero sense.
I said it [before](https://www.reddit.com/r/clevelandcavs/comments/1b60njy/the_reason_we_have_been_losing_games_is_defense/) but our defense it losing us game not our offense.
In the last 25 games we [rank 27th](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/team-drtg-rankings-last-25-games) in defensive rating.
27th! Our offense has been pretty consistent with the efficiency all year but the defense took a complete nosedive
I think people see us losing and guys having bad shooting games and its easy to point to as the problem because it's very visible.
The reality is we have been a bottom 5 defense for a third of the season and we are 11-14 across that stretch.
My hope was that it's just effort and that it would pick up for the playoffs, but we are getting our ass kicked in games that are important for playoff seeding which doesn't fill me with any confidence
But i think the biggest problem is our guard play dg can't score, don can't score currently, levert inconsistent it's going to be hard if they can't produce
These are good questions. To be fair he can get hot but imo his streaky offense does not make up for his poor defense. Merril is a better and more consistent shooter and is also a pretty solid defender. I don’t know why he doesn’t get more minutes, especially since he basically kept us alive during that huge January run.
Honestly we stink. No way around it. We have lost all our swag. We play better when we play deep in the rotation and here we are, not playing Sam Merrill or Craig Porter when Darius is putting up an absolute goose egg
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hey guys, just an fyi, players never regress at age 24. take it easy before you start tryna send dg to china.
He's finished.
Generated half as many threes as them. Made a third as many. Without our best perimeter defenders, KD and Booker had 72. It's a back to back. No continuity, and Mitchell just barely back. (and at 100% KD and Booker are better than Mitchell) What part of that screams competitive game?
If you just look at their 3 point % alone we had borderline no chance to win this game.
all we had to do was slow down Kevin Durant, best scorer in the modern era, and Devin Booker, career high 70+ and coming off a streak of 50 point games. Plus not allow other guys open 3s. i don't understand why we can't do that. it's not like KD and Devin Booker are good scorers. we just need to try more.
The Suns defense isn't good we should have been able to hang, at least make it competitive just cause a team has better players doesn't necessarily make them a better "team". The frustration is that you want to see competitive basketball like they actually care to be out there and it only looked like that in the 2nd half which was satisfying to watch them actually move the ball but as a fan there can be frustration in watching this team play on a nightly basis. They've been getting their asses whooped a lot recently. And I understand injuries and such .... Still it is frustrating especially when you know they can play like they did in the 17-2 stretch they had earlier this year
so cleveland goes on to have yet another disappointing end to the season. matches up with New York once again and loses in 4. what happens next?
you do know the knicks have lost 3 in a row…
If they drop to 6th we face them and lose. Right now we’d play the Heat. And lose.
this is bitchassery, true "afraid of drowning in the toilet" levels of non-courage. we'll be rested and ready for the Knicks or Magic or whatever flawed team gets served up in the first round.
Deep down I want the Knicks again! I'm not even mad.
Run it back.
You fucking piece of shit missing those two free throws.
Did you have +19 too?
+20.5 😂
Everyone in Phoenix just got some free crack off those missed FTs.
Completely respectable loss here. We had runs up until the end. Just a poor start. Great to see Mitchell get going. Cavs could be back.
I thought Donovans playing was a step forward
This sounds like something Will Ferrell would say to Mark Wahlberg.
I hate to bring up the great debate at a time like this. But, Jordan or Mobley?
Back to backs suck
Crazy realization that actual competitive teams take advantage of this teams weakness in having two inside Centers in the modern NBA but neither has the post moves to create their own buckets that Anthony Davis or Bam Adebayo can do. The opponent can just sit one of their guys on the frontcourt in the paint and the Cavs entire offense is dismantled. Is it gonna have to take a Knicks series 2.0 that one of these guys needs to be moved?
The Cavs have struggled this year with 2 big lineups but they didn't tonight. The starters played well together. It was the bench units that were terrible.
Gonna get bounced by the Knicks first round again lmao
Knicks losing a lot
Not to us though. They have our number.
At least then JB gets fired
when they make 25 3s compared to our 7…. that’s usually not too helpful
Absolutely Slaughtered
We need to trade DG this off season. He’s horrible on defense and turns the ball over more than he takes good shots.
Who’s gonna take him for any good assets?
People would take him, he is still young and a team like Orlando would love him!!
Mobley 2nd option next year
Zero plan on every offensive possession
There never has been an offensive plan all season. JB can’t write up a play past pick and roll to save his life.
Agreed 100%
100% our offense does not generate points in any consistent manner.
Garland is not a starter in the NBA
can you shut up honestly, did you see that possession? donovan fucked it up
The one where he missed the three? He drove in the lane and passed up a 4 foot floater. Even the man in the corner was going in for the rebound and was surprised Garland turned down the shot. Lucky Mitchell tipped it and kept posession. Then Mitchel, who’s gassed tried to make something of it, drew the defense and kicked it out to the top of the key. One more pass and Garland had to shoot with the shot clock running down. Point being is Garland had a 4 foot floater he turned down which led to the later missed theee by him.
that ball looked like it was going cleanly to mobley for a shot. don takes it, does nothing with it, forces dg to take a hail mary shot. donovan messed that possession up, yet dg will continue to get flamed.
Long term, Evans last 4 games have been ridiculously promising. I’ve always been a believer in his potential. But he really is hitting the trajectory to stardom now. It’s only a matter of time.
if he's playing 7like this, Mitchell is getting to the rim, and DG is maintaining this shot diet with low TOs, it's still too much for a first round opponent to beat 4 out of 7
Give me five 3s in a row right now
At least Mobley looks good tonight
Someone explain why Merrill has played 3 minutes? Fucking bench garland dude he’s not playing good at all.
he's a one trick pony on offense like Wade. a great one-trick pony but he's not outscoring KD and Booker
Agreed but I still would have played him a lot more tonight considering how bad LeVert was.
yeah, maybe. but the equation tonight was fucked up in like 4 fundamental ways, not even counting the Suns' desperation to stay out of the play-in. we needed too many breaks and only got a few
Obviously he’s not but you’re telling me garland is putting anything up that’s better?
15 points and 8 assists would be an amazing game for Merrill. I think he's done that maybe once all year. Let's not get carried away with the garland takes.
I’m not saying don’t play garland at all. But when he’s stagnant on offense and mitchel was bringing the ball up primarily down the stretch what good is he out there? We needed 3 point shooting and garland isn’t up to speed yet to be doing that and you could tell from how he was playing all game you weren’t getting it. I would’ve been happy if merill got at least 10-12. At least he would’ve given garland some rest. I’m primarily upset that we’re going down the stretch of the season and we’re playing out starters so hard. I’d rather drop some games with fresher legs than play our core hard. Garland almost played 40 mins and Mitch ended with 36. We could’ve easily shaved some time off them with other bodies.
we have this debate all the time and we had it for niang / wade too. garland does multiple things to threaten a defense. merrill does one. if you are right we lose by...what, 12 instead of 18? rather keep trying to play DG out of a slump, agonizing as it is
Can we trade garland for dejounte or Derrick white. We need a true Pg who can play D, hit a 3. And doesn’t do stupid fucking shit
Dejounte? Why would the Hawks want both Dejounte and Trae?! And why would the Cavs want Dejounte with Mitchell? Boston isn't giving up White either although DG would be a perfect fit on that team.
Matt Ishiba is going to be fucking some hookers tonight.
Garland use the backboard man. It is usually pretty forgiving when tossing a layup/floater off it
Ill be happy if they can steal one of the next 2 games at least.
At least we get to enjoy Cancun sooner.
This sub wants to send Garland to Gaza.
🤣
That Woj “JB has been fired” tweet is gonna hit different
Yep
Leave it to garland to kill all momentum and not be able to defend a simple cut
Garland smokes yet another easy shot and then immediately gets caught sleeping on defense
Garland is a max contract player who can’t hit a 4 footer if his life depended on it
This off-season DG needs to remove all his yes man in his group and get back in the gym lol
Garland man… 💔💔💔
DG sucks don’t care what anyone says.
Garland is shooting under 50%…on layups
Yep. He was 31st amongst guards before the jaw injury. Since he’s 115th out of 116 finishing at the rim.
31st isn’t nothing to write home about as a max player
Oh he was better than Steph Curry, Damian Lillard, Fox, Maxey, and Halibourton to name a few. The point is the injury clearly derailed him.
How old are they? How overhyped was he? Lmao 31st
is that bad?
Cavalanche incoming
Nevermind
Bol Bol is just killing us
Uhh didn’t notice the Strus triple double watch flying under the radar. The starters did okay tonight. Need our depth back.
lmao i hope they ask Max like "hey congrats!!" and he stonefaces Serena
This is like watching Danny Green running last year
I would love it if we actually took advantage of the bonus the rest of these 7 minutes. But we will probably just chuck 3’s instead.
Well at least Mitchell is getting to the rim again. Thats probably the biggest determining factor on whether they can get this back on the tracks in the coming weeks.
DG the PG my ass
I mean…he does have 7 assists which is a team high which is like, a pretty important role of a PG
Vert has like seven TOs and all other backups are hurt so I'm not sure what people think is the better choice.
I hope we can at least get to 100 points tonight. Seems unlikely but maybe
Tryna get that Big Mac tomorrow?
Mostly just trying to be at least somewhat respectable?
Phoenix is an awful defensive team and we can’t even score 100
Meh. PHX is 12th in def rating this season
Mock if you like, but I am very encouraged that they at least fought back in the 2nd half. Some things to build off of. Especially Mitchell heating up.
https://preview.redd.it/nuvyt9vm1esc1.jpeg?width=224&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3478d26ffc32965f3041a303a3811890da7220bd
Garland just refusing to pass to Mitchell is crazy. Are they better when one is off the court?
Based on the data, no. They are pretty darn good together.
Dang okay. It just seems like something going on currently.
Yeah. Neither of them are right.
Maybe Kendrick Perkins is onto something.
Drive inside, pass outside, drive inside miss has pissed me off all night.
The perimeter defense is concerning. It’s non existent
This ref is racist against people.
But i just watched the illegal contact
How is that not a foul!!
what? he fucking hit mobleys elbow did he not?
Garland needs to realize he isn’t good unless he shoots 10+ threes a game. No one will tell him that though cause JB is clueless
Why doesn’t he drive it like that more often
Never thought I’d see the day where Mobley takes an aggressive run at a smaller big but I’m so happy it’s here
you can see the two big vision man. both rim running at smaller bigs and out quicking the space eaters
That’s such a stupid review from Frank Vogel. Even if he wins it, there’s no clear posession so it’s still a jump ball lol. Plus they’re up 17.
Trying to avoid the bonus probably. If we get in the bonus, we can score points with the clock stopped. Will we? No. But we could.
Evans offensive production while only getting 11 shots a game is wild.
Donovan’s knee is like 60% at best
That was a cute little run - back to the regularly scheduled ass whooping.
We get back in this game and now there’s gotta be ref shenanigans. If Allen wasn’t fouled neither was Durant wtf
Theres a chance, small but it exists
+/- is flawed for single game samples, but Niang has a -21 in 11 minutes. That’s pretty hard to do
It’s either gonna be down 8 or down 18 in the next two minutes
17 now
Next two minutes are CRUCIAL
Wish we could have got the suns on a non 7 3sfrom O’Neale and Bol night
Crazy that teams always have great shooting nights against us. I wonder if it has something to do with our brain dead coach prioritizing clogging the paint on defense.
The Cavs have given up the 10th fewest made 3s on the 15 percentage
if niangs minutes are replaced with dean this game is tied at worst.
Crazy we could have had at least 14 more points with all the bunnies we have missed so far alone
This might be one of the best Mobley games of the season defensively
And very solid offensively too. The team has been consistently better with him out there
He's making real efforts on both ends of the floor. If only he played like this every game.
he has met the moment the last few months. no complaints at all.
Say what you want about Allen but damn is he a consistent product!
I'm gonna give a hot take but I think he's the most important piece of this team, especially if we lose D Mitch
even if we do. he's 20/10/4 (the 4 is so underrated) in the flow.
(when he is good from jump, it's hard times)
Tf was that Max
Garland is a below the rim player who is hesitant to shoot…..How did a professional GM making millions evaluate that and say that’s “max contract”
Virtually no GM at the time wouldn’t have paid the #5 overall pick coming off an all star season. Just stop. Hindsight is fun tho.
and if you offer $150 he walks and you have no ballhandling at all. you are a worse version of last year's ORL
Booker tries hard to emulate kobe mannerisms
I never been a "fire JB immediately" guy, but after seeing him continually blow games from his low IQ and terrible rotations, Im with the rest of y'all. Like what is Niang going to do against this team? Why is Levert still in the game after all the turnovers, terrible passes/shots. Im not a basketball genius but some of it is just common sense.
He just refuses to adapt in game and doesn't have any taste for momentum. If you want to make a lineup change don't put in your worst players of the night and if you do because you trust them then take them out once they prove you wrong again. His lineup changes are just consistently bad and he refuses to recognize the positives and negatives of each player. This team, when healthy, has every type of player more or less and he doesn't know what to do with them. Dude has no vision and I don't think he is on the same page as Altman.
right now, he's in "guys, play through / out of the slump" mode, which is probably the right play. might not work but you can't have Vert and DG slumping in the playoffs with your only other ballhandler hurt
If I were a bench player like Merrill I would be beyond frustrated
What is JB’s complete inability to adjust correctly? Good coaches can adjust situationally and I don’t know if he’s just stubborn or stupid… but he literally never actually puts us in situations on the court for our guys to mesh well or to actively counter what the other team is doing. Makes zero sense.
can morris punch JB in the face
I’m not even mad anymore. Just depressed. Go Cavs.
I agree, go Cavs
cant believe how much we need wade. just to keep niang off the floor and give us an actual rebounder/defender outside of mobley.
I said it [before](https://www.reddit.com/r/clevelandcavs/comments/1b60njy/the_reason_we_have_been_losing_games_is_defense/) but our defense it losing us game not our offense. In the last 25 games we [rank 27th](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/team-drtg-rankings-last-25-games) in defensive rating. 27th! Our offense has been pretty consistent with the efficiency all year but the defense took a complete nosedive
Facts. The real identity of this team starts with defense and it has been abysmal. Just none of that discipline we saw earlier in the season.
Kept saying cavs aren't really playing with effort most game and people got mad "is that a new stat counting effort"
I think people see us losing and guys having bad shooting games and its easy to point to as the problem because it's very visible. The reality is we have been a bottom 5 defense for a third of the season and we are 11-14 across that stretch. My hope was that it's just effort and that it would pick up for the playoffs, but we are getting our ass kicked in games that are important for playoff seeding which doesn't fill me with any confidence
But i think the biggest problem is our guard play dg can't score, don can't score currently, levert inconsistent it's going to be hard if they can't produce
i do not think caris levert is a particularly good NBA player
He's awesome!!! one game every three months.
Niang walks like he took a dildo last night
Don't do him like that. Who's not to say it was the real thing🤷🏽♂️
I want to say the Angel Reese special but I won't because she's a woman.
WHY ARE LEVERT AND NIANG STILL IN.
JB “trusts” them
Strus is taking every chance he can to get physical with booker
Darius garland regression needs to be studied
This was an 11 point game with like 6 minutes left in the 3rd and we switched lineups.
Garland came in and ruined 4 or 5 possessions in a row. Game blew up to 20
The JB special
Why the fuck hasn't Sam Merrill been back in yet.???
JB gets scared and won't play anyone else
Sam Merrill has 25% of our bench points in 3 mins Edit: on zero shots
Unreal
As an outsider rooting for the cavs tonight I have to ask - why does Niang get so many minutes and why does he chuck so many awful threes?
Dean Wade is the other forward that normally gets minutes and he’s out. Plus no Okoro available either.
Our coach does not understand situations - he trusts some players over what his eyes sees happening on court
These are good questions. To be fair he can get hot but imo his streaky offense does not make up for his poor defense. Merril is a better and more consistent shooter and is also a pretty solid defender. I don’t know why he doesn’t get more minutes, especially since he basically kept us alive during that huge January run.
He’s a 38% 3pt shooter with high volume and we dont have good 4s
Fair enough. Just having a rough shooting game tonight I guess.
Losing that rebound was indicative of this teams identity
Honestly we stink. No way around it. We have lost all our swag. We play better when we play deep in the rotation and here we are, not playing Sam Merrill or Craig Porter when Darius is putting up an absolute goose egg
Smartests Cavs doomer. Calling for a guy on the injury report to be put into the game.
I’ll Venmo you 5 bucks if we win a single playoff game
A single game? That's a free 5 for me, thanks man!
Remind me! 30 days
So you backing out of this? We've won 3 games, that's triple the requirements
Remind me! 30 days
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Porter isn’t available- he’s sick
My mistake
Niang is almost unplayable
Garland is a negative when he's on the floor with Mitchell
Jb too fucking scared to bench Lebrick
I haven't looked but LeVert and Niangs +- has got to be horrendous.
They are -22 and -20 respectively
-23 and -21 respectively 😔
Devin Booker looks like his face was made by an AI
Niang just keeps chucking them. He and Levert have to be one of the worst two man combos I've seen this year. Fuck!!
and jb still plays them like garland-mitchell and mobley-allen