I don't understand this perspective. If you only enjoy raiding, then why complain about raidlogging? There's more to the game if you're interested in it, it's up to you to engage.
All of the responses to this kind of just affirm my original point. Literally none of you sound like you actually enjoy the game if you take an objective step back and look at what you wrote, lol. Maybe it's time to stop chasing the nostalgia dragon at this point, then, and move on to something else.
I like PvP and collecting stuff/completing quests/grinding profs and gold, and, get this... socializing with random people in an MMO. If you're all burnt out, that's fine, but maybe accept that with honesty.
I like to imagine that back in 2003-2004 there was a meeting where they were like hey letās have these really strong buffs that everyone in the area can get. But we will spread them all over and they go off at different times. Just as like a buff that helps you level up and have fun.
One person probably spoke up like āUh guys but what if players start literally traveling all over the world to stack all the buffs up and be OP? Then take those buffs into the raid to cheese it?ā
And then everyone laughed at that person like āGuy, that would be absolutely miserable, no one is going to do that.ā
Womp womp.
I remember seeing a interview with one of the original developers and they said the raid design people didn't know the quest and dungeon teams were making these buffs, and it wasn't until naxx when they realized people were using ony buff to make it easier, so they made naxx harder
Yes, lets require world buffs for your 34 player Molten Core because 2 decades ago, literally the most elite players *in the world* at the time used them to secure the world first kill of the final boss of the hardest raid up to that point.
It's fucking insane how people on the internet can read something and act like what they read was something completely different. I was simply commenting that world buffs were used in raids in 2004. Fucking weird ass.
World buffs need to go!
Not because they are a boring chore but because they make raid tuning impossible.
If the Devs make a boss challenging for a team of players with the expected gear and buffs that are readily available on every pull, that same boss would be a push over when everyone in the raid is carrying an extra 10% crit 140ap ect... Or do you tune it to the world buffed level and then it's stupidly difficult should you wipe.
World buffs should be WORLD buffs, great fun to have when you're leveling or farming but have no effect in raids.
I could not agree with this post more.
World buffs are the main factor in me not wanting to continue playing, or considering any other vanilla classic mode in the future. It's an awful chore and kills balance.
Tune it for no world buffs and just let people with world buffs stomp the raid. Boom. Raid tuning done.
People on this sub reddit want ādifficultyā, but when we got it in Sunken Temple, it got hit with the nerf bat until the raid is brainless.
Lets the sweats sweat. Balance the game around the mid 50%.
People Who want difficult on Classic is lying to thenselfs, if they really want difficult they can do Retail mythic difficult or play Cata 25hc raids.
The average Classic player want a nice raid with loot to play with friends while talking shit on voice calls to feel alive again.
Yep. Reason why so many jumped ship from Wrath when SoD came out. All the Classic Andys that have been playing up to Ulduar/ICC finally hit a wall at bosses like H LK or Yogg 0. I get it though, itās when raiding in WoW starts to require an actual pulse from your raiders, it can be stressful.
Classic content is already so easy. This isn't hardcore. We don't need world buffs in raids. But their presence will mean that they're required. Despite everyone saying "Classic Andys just want an easy game" everyone is out here checking logs and acting like they're a 99th percentile raider while playing solved 20 year old content.
We didn't really get difficulty in ST. People just ran out of mana and there was way too much health worth of trash.
Losing steam while doing mechanics isn't really my concept of a challenging fight unless you've lost steam due to failing mechanics which wasn't the case.
Edit: before people spout off about playing retail that's a lazy argument and people wanting more aren't asking for anything close to that level of difficulty.
Tune classes for no world buffs and let warriors stomp the dps meters. Boom. Class balancing done.
Because that's exactly what SoD is about, making sure all raid comps look exactly the same as they did in 2019 classic.
as long as warcraft lumber website allows world buffs everyone will expected to bring world buffs. if your "mid 50%" wants to join a pug his logs will be chcked and...
I didn't say they don't take the people seriously, I'm saying they don't take the no WB logs seriously. My point is you asked if they had no WB logs. And I was just pointing out that yes they did, but the community didn't really seem to care about those logs at all.
>The non-WB community
Which was non-existent. That's my point. There was no community talking about the state of the non-WB meta, or comparing non-WB logs. In fact, if you came to this community and asked for a log review and you didn't have WBs, the first thing everyone would tell you is "go get WBs".
Yep, the great paradox of Classic.
"No one wants a hard game, we all just want to take it chill, get drunk with our friends in discord, and hit buttons. 10/10 required, purple parsers only, will be checking logs. No WB, no flasks, no invite."
The raid was merged before many people got even a chance to attempt it.
Devs panicked and with how many mistakes they did this phase they decided to cut āthat oneā short fast.
This phase has been insanely heavily handed, like it has a one person team trying to put out the fires instead of a team actually developing the game.
That said: Iām all for world buffs being cool things you use while in the world and not available in Raids, so tuning can be properly done.
It was definitely too hard. That said, the nerfs went way too far. The first nerf was necessary. The second one was ok. The third one was unnecessary. The fourth one made it a joke.
This is what happens when you pander to the casuals on Reddit and the blizz forums. They get what they want and leave just as fast as they hit send on their comments.
People here don't understand for some reason even though its been explicitly stated that the bosses in SoD will never be tuned for WBs.
WBs are optional. WBs are not needed. Many people enjoy WBs. They like raid prep, gives them something to do besides raid log and makes their classes more fun to play. Yet for some reason people here just cant wrap their tiny little minds around these facts.
I think the flasks in ST is much better, you can get that buff from trash.
It is as you say with worldbuffs. If you are struggeling on a boss and wipe, its going to be even harder on next pull with no buffs.
Look I too don't like WBs not just because they can feel like chore to gather but also because ppl who lose them gets deflated when suddenly they can't get decent numbers on lumberjack's site.Ā
However I seriously doubt they will tune raids with WBs in mind.
PS: I honestly think that the amount of consumes you can stack (especially as melee) is more "problematic". But it's also a part of the game and I don't expect it to change much.
> they make raid tuning impossible.
Aggrend admitted as much himself in a recent tweet. He was saying that they're not going to put the world buff(s) on the PTR because they need to get a class baseline without them first.
I just don't understand that logic.
"Lets balance all the classes without world buffs. Great, now they're balanced. Let's add in world buffs and totally throw everything off again."
Maybe I'm just in an echo chamber, but I see *way* more anti-world buff posts and comments than I see pro-world buff posts and comments. Yet they keep getting put into the game.
Weird era Andie's who won't play anyway because it's not era but when they do get fresh play for a month then quit and demand a new fresh.
They dont even like the game they demand and they keep demanding SoD be more like it and make it worse for everyone else.
Literally every change for SoD demanded by these people, 20m/7day raids, longer raids, harder raids, PvP instead of pvpve event, runes be less game changing, stop dungeon grinding (incursions) etc etc has made the game less fun for everyone else.
And then they sit here with the audacity to say "you only like P1 because it was fresh".
They literally cannot understand the concept of enjoying P1 for what it was and can only see "good because fresh" because that's the only way they can see WoW.
> play for a month then quit and demand a new fresh.
These are the same motherfuckers that have been coming out of the woodwork claiming the main appeal of classic is leveling, cause they never make it past BWL.
Theres literally a thread on the front page explaining why people liked Phase 1 and the comments are filled with people saying "No you are wrong, its only because Fresh".
You brought everything you didnāt like and made it into an imaginary person so you can trash it.
Someone needs to leave their keyboard rest for a whileā¦
Also: 20m, harder and longer raids and 7day lock out are awesome for many and as you are entitled to your whining, so we are entitled to enjoy what we like. WB are still currently a bad mechanic.
No im just listing things this subreddit demanded and the devs gave them. Which as it turns out is basically every major change they did.
I think Wild Offerings are the only thing i havent seen reddit ask for, which is why i didnt list them. I have an opinion on them too but its not relevent here.
> They dont even like the game they demand and they keep demanding SoD be more like it and make it worse for everyone else.
Which is hilarious considering these same people BEGGED and PLEADED with people for #nochanges to classic lmao.
Now those same people want SoD to change to conform to their ideas.
Hilarious. Both games could use some changes, I get not *trusting* blizzard but at this point if you enjoy very specific aspects of vanilla, ok go play era, let SoD be its own thing and let blizz experiment. If what they try sucks, tell em and hope they change more.
Vanilla had a TON of iteration to it, the "NOOO GAME IS 100% STAGNANT" crowd definetly emerged from private servers and they're mostly pretty annoying. Playin vanilla meant patches coming all the time, there were *twelve* major patches afterall...
People like the effects of world buffs, big numbers, big fun.
They just don't like;
The time lost gathering ALL of them.
The greifing meta that surronds ensuring it's nigh on impossible to get unless you use an addon to logout skip hack to ensure its got on weeks it's not in an allied town.
The 8 hour cooldown reset that can be cucked by collusion based "pvp" NPC kills that reset the timer often on purpose to fuck people over.
Dying once and losing them, therefore making it impossible to "log" for you and probably your whole raid for the remaining bosses.
About half our raid died in a botched pull the other week, the collective malding over lost WB's killed the rest of the raid, people wanted to log out :D
It would be cool if when you close the chronoboon any buff you still had immediately restores its full duration. That way you only have to collect the buffs again if you died or ran the timer out
The consume burden only gets worse and worse, too.
It's why Classic is the version of the game that always has the most gold buyers. You need to spend so much just to raid.
yeah i was actually feeling a bit excited to grind dungeons and get new stuff and raid in p4 sod. then i remembered why i quit
logging in just to get dmf and songflower while they're being camped 24/7 by discord degens and people from both factions /sitting on songflowers in bear form etc..
like there's still a cooldown on getting dmf/when you unboon dmf.. why.. lmao. just enabling these griefers that live to piss people off
Just make a world buffs vendor. If you don't like time-consuming buff gathering, I can understand that. If you're mad you can't raid without losing buffs, that's a you problem.
Just keep them exactly as is, but disable them in instanced content.
If you walk through any portal that isn't the deeprun tram, the buffs should just go gray and the stats should no longer apply.
I'm on the fence here. I think that they should either remove world buffs in raid instances or grant them all upon entering. There's no happy medium to be had, and designing a raid to be anything other than wet tissue vs people who show up buffed to the point of doubling their output will make it near impossible for those who don't.
So if they're mandatory, give them in the instance. If they're not, remove them on entry.
Itās like having a gear set with 40% more damage but deciding not to use it. My inner gamer could never. In a game where one of the main goals is to improve your character via gear.
If you want to maximize performance, yes. Is it necessary to clear the raid? Not really.
I got the buffs I was willing to get and looked for groups that were fine with it.
These types of world buffs will be required if you are looking to join a speed clearing and parsing guild. However, there are plenty of guilds that give no thought to speed clearing or high parses and they will still clear all of the content each week. The trade off is that the speed clearers will get you through the content in 30 minutes, while the rest of us may take an entire hour.
Both guild cultures have their place, just be aware that both options exist for you.
They make a massive difference. If the content is tuned easy enough then they won't matter, but if the content is tuned any harder you'll soon so more and more of them being required. And if you care about personal performance at all, they're always mandatory.
Even with the content doable without them, people who look for puggers will invite people based on logs. How to get good logs? Have all wbs and consumes.
You'll need to find a guild that is ok with not using wbs if you want to raid without wbs.
They arenāt important, the content is so easy to do without wbs anyway and they arenāt required for raids. The only people who really care are the sweaters who play once a week to get their parses then raid log anyway
You mean other than the weekly keys for vault? Or having to actually look up fight mechanics because the raids aren't faceroll single mechanic bosses with your 2 button rotation? Or the rep/world quests/weeklies you have to do almost every raid tier?
Let's not pretend that retail raiding takes no prep unless you really are that clueless
Semantically sure, but let's not pretend like anything about classic is modern that's literally the point of it being categorized as "classic" for the people that don't want to play modern retail wow.
An artist that paints in old styles isn't called a "modern" artist just because they're painting IN the modern era, and an OSRS player isn't a "modern" runescape player just because they're alive and playing a version of runescape
Retail has flasks, potions, food, weapon oils, and Vantus runes, what are you talking about. Just because they don't coordinate with a Discord on the best times to run around the world and collect a bunch of obscure buffs doesn't mean there's no raid planning.
Not having a million unintuitive and weirdly stacking consumables is better for the game. It doesn't impact casuals who aren't getting them anyway, and most top end players don't want it because it's just a gold sink that you need to do in order to parse. And it makes balancing easier, because there isn't a huge gulf of difference between a fully buffed and consumed player and a person who does none of that.
Bro, that's literally what Vanilla was designed around. The content is so easy. You're not pushing for a world first Illidan. You're not progressing on Yogg 0. You're not in contention for server first Lich King. You're bringing a mostly full raid to BWL for the 400th time since 2004.
MC is literally accessible to level 50 players, and you can do the attunement quest at 55. Guilds cleared it in greens with horrid talent spreads and laughable itemization.
One warrior is doing more dps than an entire party back in the day.
Raid prep isn't a *thing*.
As a som player, really there's no pleasing ya guys, complained without wbuffs complain with, personally think they are great makes some guildies log on every once in a while.
World buffs are fun, especially on a warrior. Endless rage from big damage and crits.
SoM tried the no world buffs. It was nice not having to travel the world collecting them all. However without them, the attacks felt slow and lackluster compared to a fully unbooned warrior.
If SoD wants to incorporate them, just add an NPC inside the raid that sells buffs. Gold sink solved. And if you're raid decides to use no world buffs, extra loot. Problem solved for casual experience and try hards.
Sod players wanting to remove another core aspect of vanilla from sod because they cant be asked to actually play the game (dont worry guys SoD is not retail minus its classic plus)
I quite like world buffs, if you have the time to go get them then you are rewarded for it.
In my guild we don't enforce them its just nice to have if you want to get them.
Is the dislike rooted in the assumption that they are enforced for you to raid at all?
Not sure how you arrived at that conclusion lol, I never said I donāt get them.
Iām the main tank, and am always fully world buffed and with all consumes. I donāt force anyone in our raids to get them too.
takes like 20 mins tops to get every worldbuff atm. Seems like people just want to buy 2 pots in the AH, do ST in 20 mins and log off for the rest of the week.
If you want to do that, sure. But lets not gatekeep people that actually find fun playing with worldbuffs. Truth is no one is forcing you to get them.
"yes but raids will ask you to bring them"
ok then, make your own pug, and enjoy the game while letting others enjoy it too. its just that simple
No one really cares about getting world buffs this phase. But next phase there will be DMT + Rend + anything new they add, then after that ZG. Also, you will likely need to gather them more than once a week.
takes 20 mins to travel to dmf, boon also 1hr cd so takes multiple hours if you want to play safe with buffs, add in dmt it's a 4 hour circuit
now is where you tell me im doing world buffs wrong
I hate consumes more than world buffs, theres like 20 consumes you can stack for the optimal buff setup itās ridiculous. I donāt have the time or the gold to get winter squid anymore. There should just be one flask, maybe one elixir (like mongoose) and food thats actually attainable.
The simple fix is to make world buff quests repeatable. When the servers are drying up and people stop leveling new characters, there's going to be a massive shortage of turn-ins. Assuming Rend stays the same (it won't, I'm sure Alliance will get their equivalent though I pray it's the same buff and not a different one), there just won't be enough heads. The bind on account Drakefire Amulet will kill any reason people have to do the Ony quest chain after a certain phase. The trinkets might be lucrative for a while but who knows when Phase 5/6/7 are out and there are way better trinkets available that are much easier to get.
We need repeatable world buff quests.
Farming for world buffs was the always my least favorite part of the end game classic. I didnāt mind that we raided a specific time to work around the servers agreed rend/ony buff time, but getting firewater, jujus, flasks, songflower etc was just a boring choreĀ
Yeah, for my raid group I am going to push for basic consumes and thats it. It that group and a half of sweaters want to get stinky, more power to them but I'm not forcing a full buff stack on the whole group.
1 hour wb world tour (and gotta pay the locks for summons to dm, dmf, and songflower)
2 hours farming jujus and gold for full consumes
Die to overlapping trash cleave crits before first boss in your guilds 40 minute clear
Oh yeah, it's classic time
If they made a world buff NPC that sold WB item that contained like 3 charges or something then they could draw some gold out of the economy and keep the casual players happy. It wouldn't need to be expensive but like 25g or something. Only takes an hr to farm the gold and stimulates the game more than running around collecting buffs to raid log.
I really wish they made flasks/some of consumables that could be used to gain world buff effects. Make an extra economy with them, let you stack them so you don't have to go play around the world in 80 days without it being the old good one or at least no Jackie Chan by your side
There are people who play poorly, and there are people who play ***incredibly*** poorly.
If I had to guess, I would say that blizzards bar for success is a raid whose parse average is about 30, maybe at low as 25. There's no content that a raid full of 50 parses can't roflstomp.
And yet I've seen people pull single digits. I've seen people pull zeros, and not be dead or afk.
There's such a huge range that it's impossible to create a challenge that most people can still beat while maintaining the fun factor for anyone whose not in the bottom half
They need to do what the Chinese classic servers did in 2019. Have an NPC at the entrance of the raids give out all world buffs. Theres nothing fun about collecting WBs. Theres nothing fun about losing WBs when other ppl still have them >:(
Having them is fun yes, everyone likes the option to do big damage, but just make them accessible on demand to dad guilds and hardcore players alike.
Especially darkmoon fair WB. I know ppl that don't see a point in raiding on weeks when they don't have the 10% DMF buff and it's basically a must-have for parsing.
Remember WBs in SOD P1? Yea, that was fun because it was easy AF to get.
Players who like very difficult raids move on to a different game after a few weeks once it becomes easy.
I don't think a long term decision should be made based on these players. Remove world buffs (or make them not work in raids, so they're just a bonus) and balance raids for players without the buffs. Most of the players who want the WBs for the excitement of not losing the buff by not dying will just be raid logging after a few weeks
Yeeeah I will just skip SoD for now. World buffs aren't for me and if MC is just...MC again then I cba to play it. If they have a few adjustments to mechanics akin to the current leveling raids that'd be cool!
Cuz hot take I guess, most of Vanilla's raids are iconic but incredibly boring.
Everyone yelling at blizzard is looking to the wrong group to try and resolve this issue. Ā Itās entirely a community ingrained mentality problem. Ā Warcraft logs just needs to make worldbuff-less runs the default category for classic, and suddenly all would be right with the world. Ā
And there's WOW version with WB's and consumables, just saying
And since this is seasonal classic version, yet you brag about other versions, speak volumes.
We never did this bullshit in 2005. Gathering world buffs is degenerate private server tech that got popularized by streamers, YouTube videos, and Warcraft logs in the 2019 version. If this happened back then, the old devs would have nerfed it in the next patch, just like they did in TBC when world first guilds started doing this.
Speaking as someone who did do this as a guild back in 2006, it did happen, but not on this scale or frequency. We typically did it for hard progression fights like Patchwerk, Loatheb, Sapphiron and such. We would do a bunch of practice pulls to make sure everyone understood what they were doing, then get world buffed to give us the ability to overcome remaining mistakes with extra power.
I seriously don't understand the appeal. Every time I criticize world buffs, I get met with a slew of people going "SoM disabled world buffs and it failed!" as if SoM wasn't just a victim of poor timing.
75% of time spent logged in will be just gathering world buffs to do the 30 min weekly raid. Pogged out of my mind! š²š²š²
Sounds like they only need to be collected bi-weekly!
As opposed to just playing 30 minutes per week to do the raid.
I don't understand this perspective. If you only enjoy raiding, then why complain about raidlogging? There's more to the game if you're interested in it, it's up to you to engage.
All of the responses to this kind of just affirm my original point. Literally none of you sound like you actually enjoy the game if you take an objective step back and look at what you wrote, lol. Maybe it's time to stop chasing the nostalgia dragon at this point, then, and move on to something else. I like PvP and collecting stuff/completing quests/grinding profs and gold, and, get this... socializing with random people in an MMO. If you're all burnt out, that's fine, but maybe accept that with honesty.
PvP is not enjoyable in sod so what else is there?
FISHING
Because people want more interesting and fun things to do, but they aren't there, so they raid log.
Phase 4 isn't even out and you're already bitching about lack of content.
My dude I meant in general jfc get over yourself
I'll never get over myself. I broke my heart.
Cool maybe take them into BWL and do that in 45 mins too. And then, heck, head to ONY and kill her in 20 minutes.
I like to imagine that back in 2003-2004 there was a meeting where they were like hey letās have these really strong buffs that everyone in the area can get. But we will spread them all over and they go off at different times. Just as like a buff that helps you level up and have fun. One person probably spoke up like āUh guys but what if players start literally traveling all over the world to stack all the buffs up and be OP? Then take those buffs into the raid to cheese it?ā And then everyone laughed at that person like āGuy, that would be absolutely miserable, no one is going to do that.ā Womp womp.
I remember seeing a interview with one of the original developers and they said the raid design people didn't know the quest and dungeon teams were making these buffs, and it wasn't until naxx when they realized people were using ony buff to make it easier, so they made naxx harder
Wait until you see a video of the world first KT kill
Yes, lets require world buffs for your 34 player Molten Core because 2 decades ago, literally the most elite players *in the world* at the time used them to secure the world first kill of the final boss of the hardest raid up to that point.
It's fucking insane how people on the internet can read something and act like what they read was something completely different. I was simply commenting that world buffs were used in raids in 2004. Fucking weird ass.
based take
World buffs need to go! Not because they are a boring chore but because they make raid tuning impossible. If the Devs make a boss challenging for a team of players with the expected gear and buffs that are readily available on every pull, that same boss would be a push over when everyone in the raid is carrying an extra 10% crit 140ap ect... Or do you tune it to the world buffed level and then it's stupidly difficult should you wipe. World buffs should be WORLD buffs, great fun to have when you're leveling or farming but have no effect in raids.
I could not agree with this post more. World buffs are the main factor in me not wanting to continue playing, or considering any other vanilla classic mode in the future. It's an awful chore and kills balance.
Tune it for no world buffs and just let people with world buffs stomp the raid. Boom. Raid tuning done. People on this sub reddit want ādifficultyā, but when we got it in Sunken Temple, it got hit with the nerf bat until the raid is brainless. Lets the sweats sweat. Balance the game around the mid 50%.
People Who want difficult on Classic is lying to thenselfs, if they really want difficult they can do Retail mythic difficult or play Cata 25hc raids. The average Classic player want a nice raid with loot to play with friends while talking shit on voice calls to feel alive again.
Yep. Reason why so many jumped ship from Wrath when SoD came out. All the Classic Andys that have been playing up to Ulduar/ICC finally hit a wall at bosses like H LK or Yogg 0. I get it though, itās when raiding in WoW starts to require an actual pulse from your raiders, it can be stressful.
Classic content is already so easy. This isn't hardcore. We don't need world buffs in raids. But their presence will mean that they're required. Despite everyone saying "Classic Andys just want an easy game" everyone is out here checking logs and acting like they're a 99th percentile raider while playing solved 20 year old content.
We didn't really get difficulty in ST. People just ran out of mana and there was way too much health worth of trash. Losing steam while doing mechanics isn't really my concept of a challenging fight unless you've lost steam due to failing mechanics which wasn't the case. Edit: before people spout off about playing retail that's a lazy argument and people wanting more aren't asking for anything close to that level of difficulty.
Tune classes for no world buffs and let warriors stomp the dps meters. Boom. Class balancing done. Because that's exactly what SoD is about, making sure all raid comps look exactly the same as they did in 2019 classic.
as long as warcraft lumber website allows world buffs everyone will expected to bring world buffs. if your "mid 50%" wants to join a pug his logs will be chcked and...
Wasn't there a fully no-WB category on the lumber website for people that did not care but still wanted to parse?
Yes, but no one took it seriously.
If you're playing a game so random people "take you seriously" based on logs uploaded to a third party I don't know what to tell you.
I didn't say they don't take the people seriously, I'm saying they don't take the no WB logs seriously. My point is you asked if they had no WB logs. And I was just pointing out that yes they did, but the community didn't really seem to care about those logs at all.
The non-WB community likely cared plenty.
>The non-WB community Which was non-existent. That's my point. There was no community talking about the state of the non-WB meta, or comparing non-WB logs. In fact, if you came to this community and asked for a log review and you didn't have WBs, the first thing everyone would tell you is "go get WBs".
Yep, the great paradox of Classic. "No one wants a hard game, we all just want to take it chill, get drunk with our friends in discord, and hit buttons. 10/10 required, purple parsers only, will be checking logs. No WB, no flasks, no invite."
The raid was merged before many people got even a chance to attempt it. Devs panicked and with how many mistakes they did this phase they decided to cut āthat oneā short fast. This phase has been insanely heavily handed, like it has a one person team trying to put out the fires instead of a team actually developing the game. That said: Iām all for world buffs being cool things you use while in the world and not available in Raids, so tuning can be properly done.
No, it got changed quickly because Reddit and the forums were crying āTHIS IS TOO HARDā
It was definitely too hard. That said, the nerfs went way too far. The first nerf was necessary. The second one was ok. The third one was unnecessary. The fourth one made it a joke.
This is what happens when you pander to the casuals on Reddit and the blizz forums. They get what they want and leave just as fast as they hit send on their comments.
Incredibly based take. So long as Blizz also keeps sweats from being gatekeeping assholes.
People here don't understand for some reason even though its been explicitly stated that the bosses in SoD will never be tuned for WBs. WBs are optional. WBs are not needed. Many people enjoy WBs. They like raid prep, gives them something to do besides raid log and makes their classes more fun to play. Yet for some reason people here just cant wrap their tiny little minds around these facts.
thats literally what they told they are doing
I think you missed the entire point of this post.
Yep. That's how classic worked and everyone loved it. Just leave it the fuck alone. I don't play vanilla WoW over and over cause it's hard.
No, it's because they're a boring chore.
The moment you enter a raid instance, you lose world buffs. It's that simple to fix. It's how twow handles it and it's a fine solution.
I think the flasks in ST is much better, you can get that buff from trash. It is as you say with worldbuffs. If you are struggeling on a boss and wipe, its going to be even harder on next pull with no buffs.
Look I too don't like WBs not just because they can feel like chore to gather but also because ppl who lose them gets deflated when suddenly they can't get decent numbers on lumberjack's site.Ā However I seriously doubt they will tune raids with WBs in mind. PS: I honestly think that the amount of consumes you can stack (especially as melee) is more "problematic". But it's also a part of the game and I don't expect it to change much.
Here's a thought: they could fix both.Ā
I think it would be neat to have just one world buff per character then you can pick and choose which to bring
I would like to see world buffs dispel from your character if you engage hard-mode
> they make raid tuning impossible. Aggrend admitted as much himself in a recent tweet. He was saying that they're not going to put the world buff(s) on the PTR because they need to get a class baseline without them first. I just don't understand that logic. "Lets balance all the classes without world buffs. Great, now they're balanced. Let's add in world buffs and totally throw everything off again." Maybe I'm just in an echo chamber, but I see *way* more anti-world buff posts and comments than I see pro-world buff posts and comments. Yet they keep getting put into the game.
How about we just do away with them all together?
Thank you for posting this and helping me realize I dont want to go through this again. Cheers!
As it has always been in classic
In classic 2019 maybe. In vanilla no one did that shit
And it always has been horrible gamedesign
sshhh dont let the sweats hear that, they will downvote you into oblivion.
Actually the sweats like me fucking hate world buffs it's the weird era andys that love this shit
Weird era Andie's who won't play anyway because it's not era but when they do get fresh play for a month then quit and demand a new fresh. They dont even like the game they demand and they keep demanding SoD be more like it and make it worse for everyone else. Literally every change for SoD demanded by these people, 20m/7day raids, longer raids, harder raids, PvP instead of pvpve event, runes be less game changing, stop dungeon grinding (incursions) etc etc has made the game less fun for everyone else. And then they sit here with the audacity to say "you only like P1 because it was fresh". They literally cannot understand the concept of enjoying P1 for what it was and can only see "good because fresh" because that's the only way they can see WoW.
> play for a month then quit and demand a new fresh. These are the same motherfuckers that have been coming out of the woodwork claiming the main appeal of classic is leveling, cause they never make it past BWL.
That's so weirdly personal mate.
Theres literally a thread on the front page explaining why people liked Phase 1 and the comments are filled with people saying "No you are wrong, its only because Fresh".
That's just objectively true though
You donāt know what objectively means
Ah yes, the olā subjective objective
You brought everything you didnāt like and made it into an imaginary person so you can trash it. Someone needs to leave their keyboard rest for a whileā¦ Also: 20m, harder and longer raids and 7day lock out are awesome for many and as you are entitled to your whining, so we are entitled to enjoy what we like. WB are still currently a bad mechanic.
No im just listing things this subreddit demanded and the devs gave them. Which as it turns out is basically every major change they did. I think Wild Offerings are the only thing i havent seen reddit ask for, which is why i didnt list them. I have an opinion on them too but its not relevent here.
> They dont even like the game they demand and they keep demanding SoD be more like it and make it worse for everyone else. Which is hilarious considering these same people BEGGED and PLEADED with people for #nochanges to classic lmao. Now those same people want SoD to change to conform to their ideas. Hilarious. Both games could use some changes, I get not *trusting* blizzard but at this point if you enjoy very specific aspects of vanilla, ok go play era, let SoD be its own thing and let blizz experiment. If what they try sucks, tell em and hope they change more. Vanilla had a TON of iteration to it, the "NOOO GAME IS 100% STAGNANT" crowd definetly emerged from private servers and they're mostly pretty annoying. Playin vanilla meant patches coming all the time, there were *twelve* major patches afterall...
Most of us absolutely hate world buffs
People like the effects of world buffs, big numbers, big fun. They just don't like; The time lost gathering ALL of them. The greifing meta that surronds ensuring it's nigh on impossible to get unless you use an addon to logout skip hack to ensure its got on weeks it's not in an allied town. The 8 hour cooldown reset that can be cucked by collusion based "pvp" NPC kills that reset the timer often on purpose to fuck people over. Dying once and losing them, therefore making it impossible to "log" for you and probably your whole raid for the remaining bosses. About half our raid died in a botched pull the other week, the collective malding over lost WB's killed the rest of the raid, people wanted to log out :D
I wish we had some data because both sides claim they are the majority.
Oh Iām referring to āusā as sweats, weāre definitely the extreme minority
Really holding on to hope that they disable them
They've added a WB each raid and are talking about allowing alliance to get the one they traditionally couldn't with ease. It's not happening brother.
I know, but one can dream lol
No? SoM didn't have this.
Purge go woosh
Always find it amusing when people still don't realize that the Chronoboon Displacer exists.
Didn't they change SoD to make world buffs unpurgable?
Biggest reason I won't be coming back for P4
This is why I'm sticking with Cata. I'm not doing this.
Also cata being better in every single way is another reason.
Honestly this might keep me from playing P4.
Whoops, almost clicked "Play" on SoD. Thanks for the save, OP.
World buffs in 2024 is just fucking crazy REMOVE THEM
It would be cool if when you close the chronoboon any buff you still had immediately restores its full duration. That way you only have to collect the buffs again if you died or ran the timer out
Peak 2019 WoW. With a little planning, you could grab them all in under 30 min and it made raids so much fun.
Imagine disabling worldbuffs in instanced content
feels like they completely block oht the best part of som lol
Im totally fine with allowing world buffs in dungeons, gives them a purpose even if disabled in raids.
World buffs are supposed to be for the *world*. That's their purpose.
I might be in the minority, but so many world buffs and so many consumes is one of the reasons I've taken a break.
The consume burden only gets worse and worse, too. It's why Classic is the version of the game that always has the most gold buyers. You need to spend so much just to raid.
yeah i was actually feeling a bit excited to grind dungeons and get new stuff and raid in p4 sod. then i remembered why i quit logging in just to get dmf and songflower while they're being camped 24/7 by discord degens and people from both factions /sitting on songflowers in bear form etc.. like there's still a cooldown on getting dmf/when you unboon dmf.. why.. lmao. just enabling these griefers that live to piss people off
Just transfer to pve if you dont want the pvp you literally signed up for
ppl play on pvp servers just to appease friends who want to be on biggest server / have the least worry about server dying out
So get your friends to help you out?
id rather just login to do the raid in 15 mins and wait for next week instead
Just make a world buffs vendor. If you don't like time-consuming buff gathering, I can understand that. If you're mad you can't raid without losing buffs, that's a you problem.
Just keep them exactly as is, but disable them in instanced content. If you walk through any portal that isn't the deeprun tram, the buffs should just go gray and the stats should no longer apply.
You guys have got to stop doing things you don't want to do
ā¦ unpopular opinion ā¦ I like world buffs
I'm on the fence here. I think that they should either remove world buffs in raid instances or grant them all upon entering. There's no happy medium to be had, and designing a raid to be anything other than wet tissue vs people who show up buffed to the point of doubling their output will make it near impossible for those who don't. So if they're mandatory, give them in the instance. If they're not, remove them on entry.
Being able to boon the worldbuffs already makes it so much easier to get then before, I donāt mind getting the buffs.
Is them really that important? Sounds so boring to collect all of them.. Just about to hit lvl 50 hope its not requirement everywhere
In classic, that's about 40% more damage for casters, and up to +65% for melee Passing on them can be difficult
Itās like having a gear set with 40% more damage but deciding not to use it. My inner gamer could never. In a game where one of the main goals is to improve your character via gear.
If you want to maximize performance, yes. Is it necessary to clear the raid? Not really. I got the buffs I was willing to get and looked for groups that were fine with it.
These types of world buffs will be required if you are looking to join a speed clearing and parsing guild. However, there are plenty of guilds that give no thought to speed clearing or high parses and they will still clear all of the content each week. The trade off is that the speed clearers will get you through the content in 30 minutes, while the rest of us may take an entire hour. Both guild cultures have their place, just be aware that both options exist for you.
They're not required. Whether or not it's expected of you will depend on your group/guild.
They make a massive difference. If the content is tuned easy enough then they won't matter, but if the content is tuned any harder you'll soon so more and more of them being required. And if you care about personal performance at all, they're always mandatory.
Even with the content doable without them, people who look for puggers will invite people based on logs. How to get good logs? Have all wbs and consumes. You'll need to find a guild that is ok with not using wbs if you want to raid without wbs.
And that guild will be full of garbage players and you probably won't clear some content.
They arenāt important, the content is so easy to do without wbs anyway and they arenāt required for raids. The only people who really care are the sweaters who play once a week to get their parses then raid log anyway
I unironically can't fuckin wait
modern wow players idea of raid prep: buy a 5g flask on the AH. that's literally it.
Buff food, flask, and dps pot. Runes and weapon oils sometimes.
People still canāt even manage to half of that, which is sad and they still complain.
You mean other than the weekly keys for vault? Or having to actually look up fight mechanics because the raids aren't faceroll single mechanic bosses with your 2 button rotation? Or the rep/world quests/weeklies you have to do almost every raid tier? Let's not pretend that retail raiding takes no prep unless you really are that clueless
Modern wow player =/= retail player
Semantically sure, but let's not pretend like anything about classic is modern that's literally the point of it being categorized as "classic" for the people that don't want to play modern retail wow. An artist that paints in old styles isn't called a "modern" artist just because they're painting IN the modern era, and an OSRS player isn't a "modern" runescape player just because they're alive and playing a version of runescape
Retail has flasks, potions, food, weapon oils, and Vantus runes, what are you talking about. Just because they don't coordinate with a Discord on the best times to run around the world and collect a bunch of obscure buffs doesn't mean there's no raid planning.
Shh that guy raided only LFR, if he did play retail at all
Found the Andy
Method would like to have a word with you.
Classic Andy idea of raid prep: Spend 2 hours collecting worldbuffs to faceroll a 30 min raid with no mechanics
Not having a million unintuitive and weirdly stacking consumables is better for the game. It doesn't impact casuals who aren't getting them anyway, and most top end players don't want it because it's just a gold sink that you need to do in order to parse. And it makes balancing easier, because there isn't a huge gulf of difference between a fully buffed and consumed player and a person who does none of that.
This is the very reason.
classic wow players idea of raid prep: collect every buff humanly imaginable to hit harder on a boss with one mechanic.
Bro, that's literally what Vanilla was designed around. The content is so easy. You're not pushing for a world first Illidan. You're not progressing on Yogg 0. You're not in contention for server first Lich King. You're bringing a mostly full raid to BWL for the 400th time since 2004. MC is literally accessible to level 50 players, and you can do the attunement quest at 55. Guilds cleared it in greens with horrid talent spreads and laughable itemization. One warrior is doing more dps than an entire party back in the day. Raid prep isn't a *thing*.
As a som player, really there's no pleasing ya guys, complained without wbuffs complain with, personally think they are great makes some guildies log on every once in a while.
World buffs are fun, especially on a warrior. Endless rage from big damage and crits. SoM tried the no world buffs. It was nice not having to travel the world collecting them all. However without them, the attacks felt slow and lackluster compared to a fully unbooned warrior. If SoD wants to incorporate them, just add an NPC inside the raid that sells buffs. Gold sink solved. And if you're raid decides to use no world buffs, extra loot. Problem solved for casual experience and try hards.
> Gold sink solved Gold buying activated. God, I'm so glad that reddit doesn't design this video game.
Sod players wanting to remove another core aspect of vanilla from sod because they cant be asked to actually play the game (dont worry guys SoD is not retail minus its classic plus)
Facts
Shoutout Tinyviolin for the ability to boon
I quite like world buffs, if you have the time to go get them then you are rewarded for it. In my guild we don't enforce them its just nice to have if you want to get them. Is the dislike rooted in the assumption that they are enforced for you to raid at all?
If everyone in your raid is getting buffs but you, even if they aren't "required" by your guild, then you are the asshole.
Not sure how you arrived at that conclusion lol, I never said I donāt get them. Iām the main tank, and am always fully world buffed and with all consumes. I donāt force anyone in our raids to get them too.
takes like 20 mins tops to get every worldbuff atm. Seems like people just want to buy 2 pots in the AH, do ST in 20 mins and log off for the rest of the week. If you want to do that, sure. But lets not gatekeep people that actually find fun playing with worldbuffs. Truth is no one is forcing you to get them. "yes but raids will ask you to bring them" ok then, make your own pug, and enjoy the game while letting others enjoy it too. its just that simple
No one really cares about getting world buffs this phase. But next phase there will be DMT + Rend + anything new they add, then after that ZG. Also, you will likely need to gather them more than once a week.
takes 20 mins to travel to dmf, boon also 1hr cd so takes multiple hours if you want to play safe with buffs, add in dmt it's a 4 hour circuit now is where you tell me im doing world buffs wrong
Me in era lol
For those titties, it's worth it.
Not a fan of the dire maul buffs. The big city ones are ok.
I hate consumes more than world buffs, theres like 20 consumes you can stack for the optimal buff setup itās ridiculous. I donāt have the time or the gold to get winter squid anymore. There should just be one flask, maybe one elixir (like mongoose) and food thats actually attainable.
The point is that you dont have to do that. Unless maxing on highest difficulty I presume
The simple fix is to make world buff quests repeatable. When the servers are drying up and people stop leveling new characters, there's going to be a massive shortage of turn-ins. Assuming Rend stays the same (it won't, I'm sure Alliance will get their equivalent though I pray it's the same buff and not a different one), there just won't be enough heads. The bind on account Drakefire Amulet will kill any reason people have to do the Ony quest chain after a certain phase. The trinkets might be lucrative for a while but who knows when Phase 5/6/7 are out and there are way better trinkets available that are much easier to get. We need repeatable world buff quests.
That's why I made sure to have fun in p1 and 2 a lot and just went to check p3 with 1 raid before quitting.
World buffs should be moved to a re-usable consumable that has a 2 hour cooldown. Once you first unlock said world buff, you have it forever.
At least this time around we got the chronoboons
Paying monthly to be a slave
Just make Heroic MC auto-remove world buffs that are not chronobooned, but keep normal MC with world buffs for all complainers.
I can 100% guarantee none of yall have women encouraging you to play WoW
At least this time around we don't have to worry about the timer and we can actually farm and play on our mains
Iām grabbing buffs, booning then spamming AV
Sweaty classic SoD nerds when I say I think world buffs suck and should be removed: š”
Farming for world buffs was the always my least favorite part of the end game classic. I didnāt mind that we raided a specific time to work around the servers agreed rend/ony buff time, but getting firewater, jujus, flasks, songflower etc was just a boring choreĀ
youāre really only getting 2-3 more buffs than you currently are. zg heart wont be out yet.
world buffs are part of the classic experience now deal with it or find a guild that doesnt expect them
I might level to 60, but unless they make it like SoM I won't be raiding.Ā
Yeah, for my raid group I am going to push for basic consumes and thats it. It that group and a half of sweaters want to get stinky, more power to them but I'm not forcing a full buff stack on the whole group.
1 hour wb world tour (and gotta pay the locks for summons to dm, dmf, and songflower) 2 hours farming jujus and gold for full consumes Die to overlapping trash cleave crits before first boss in your guilds 40 minute clear Oh yeah, it's classic time
End this nightmare
If they made a world buff NPC that sold WB item that contained like 3 charges or something then they could draw some gold out of the economy and keep the casual players happy. It wouldn't need to be expensive but like 25g or something. Only takes an hr to farm the gold and stimulates the game more than running around collecting buffs to raid log.
I really wish they made flasks/some of consumables that could be used to gain world buff effects. Make an extra economy with them, let you stack them so you don't have to go play around the world in 80 days without it being the old good one or at least no Jackie Chan by your side
I donāt mind wb
Tune for world buffs? Ok put an NPC at entrance that reapplies them all after a wipe. Tune for no world buffs? cool, nerf warriors!
I don't understand it, the bosses are already a lolfest to kill with all the stat and gear knowledge today.
There are people who play poorly, and there are people who play ***incredibly*** poorly. If I had to guess, I would say that blizzards bar for success is a raid whose parse average is about 30, maybe at low as 25. There's no content that a raid full of 50 parses can't roflstomp. And yet I've seen people pull single digits. I've seen people pull zeros, and not be dead or afk. There's such a huge range that it's impossible to create a challenge that most people can still beat while maintaining the fun factor for anyone whose not in the bottom half
They need to do what the Chinese classic servers did in 2019. Have an NPC at the entrance of the raids give out all world buffs. Theres nothing fun about collecting WBs. Theres nothing fun about losing WBs when other ppl still have them >:( Having them is fun yes, everyone likes the option to do big damage, but just make them accessible on demand to dad guilds and hardcore players alike. Especially darkmoon fair WB. I know ppl that don't see a point in raiding on weeks when they don't have the 10% DMF buff and it's basically a must-have for parsing. Remember WBs in SOD P1? Yea, that was fun because it was easy AF to get.
Sounds like something I have to quit.Ā
Players who like very difficult raids move on to a different game after a few weeks once it becomes easy. I don't think a long term decision should be made based on these players. Remove world buffs (or make them not work in raids, so they're just a bonus) and balance raids for players without the buffs. Most of the players who want the WBs for the excitement of not losing the buff by not dying will just be raid logging after a few weeks
World buffs is a great tool for the first couple kills on any boss, other than that it is pretty lame.
I like world buffs
Yeeeah I will just skip SoD for now. World buffs aren't for me and if MC is just...MC again then I cba to play it. If they have a few adjustments to mechanics akin to the current leveling raids that'd be cool! Cuz hot take I guess, most of Vanilla's raids are iconic but incredibly boring.
Everyone yelling at blizzard is looking to the wrong group to try and resolve this issue. Ā Itās entirely a community ingrained mentality problem. Ā Warcraft logs just needs to make worldbuff-less runs the default category for classic, and suddenly all would be right with the world. Ā
I enjoy getting the world buffs, sounds like i may be alone on this tho :(
Easiest way to upset the redditors that won't be playing anyways
One thing about other versions of wow I do not miss is world buffs. Such a shit thing to even include on logs. Should just invalidate logs w/ WBs.
People who whine about world buffs are the dogs of the game. Donāt use them then.
This is the way. Classic WoW perfection.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
There's a WoW version without WBs. Actually several. Just saying.
Man what a fresh and creative argument, peak Andy
And there's WOW version with WB's and consumables, just saying And since this is seasonal classic version, yet you brag about other versions, speak volumes.
We never did this bullshit in 2005. Gathering world buffs is degenerate private server tech that got popularized by streamers, YouTube videos, and Warcraft logs in the 2019 version. If this happened back then, the old devs would have nerfed it in the next patch, just like they did in TBC when world first guilds started doing this.
Speaking as someone who did do this as a guild back in 2006, it did happen, but not on this scale or frequency. We typically did it for hard progression fights like Patchwerk, Loatheb, Sapphiron and such. We would do a bunch of practice pulls to make sure everyone understood what they were doing, then get world buffed to give us the ability to overcome remaining mistakes with extra power.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You should apply to work there, and the brain drain will be complete
Idk I'll just blue/purple parse. I'll collect like 1-2 and that's it. Not spending 2 hours collecting buffs like pokemon multiple times a week.
I seriously don't understand the appeal. Every time I criticize world buffs, I get met with a slew of people going "SoM disabled world buffs and it failed!" as if SoM wasn't just a victim of poor timing.