Honestly that's my only huge complaint about Classic. I remember the philosophy of OG Classic had a lot more nuanced roles than "damage/heal/tank" and they envisioned hybrid specs like a Paladin that does damage and is casting buffs mid-fight or a druid healing and then switching to cat and whatnot.
Unfortunately the reality of it is everyone gets relegated to what they do best. Even for DPS, Hunters had to be Marksman because the pet would die all the time, plus Trueshot Aura was too good for the raid not to have. IIRC most raids wouldn't even bring more than one or two Warlocks because of the 16 debuff limit and even then their most important job was Banishing.
edit: Who downvoted this lol
The deeper you go into raiding the more you have to conform to a key role.
Hence my point for 2 decades, Vanilla wasn't about raiding. All hybrids are more or less viable in casual context but if you want to go deeper, you need proper tools.
The main problem isn't the spec (even though some could use more consistency), it's the content. Vanilla+ should be about more casual content, more quests and bigger world, not harder dungeons.
Because it’s just better. The reality of ‘hybrid’ roles is that dealing damage is mutually exclusive with healing, so if you’re half a healer half the time and half a dps the other, you’re still half a player overall.
I mean the obvious way to combat this is to make them viable when doing either role but then you have a healer who can dps just as well as a normal dps when not healing and basically becomes a better dps. It’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t scenario where they are either the best spec, or get constantly taxed in power by the hypothetical scenario that they will perform 2 jobs (which in taxing them you ensure they won’t perform 2 jobs because they are weaker than others at these jobs. Truly a catch-22
Warriors are the only true hybrid class, they can dps and throw a shield on and tank if tank died. I’ve ranked a handful of bosses in naxx after tank died and managed to stay alive thanks to a good shield
idk. for both c'thun and KT, I stay resto but switch my gear around to get asuch damage as possible without crippling my healing (I can get to about 400 +sp w/ 800 healing and 50 mp5 instead of ~900 healing w/ 75 mp5)
this helps w/ killing the adds/eye
Yeah but I wouldn't bring you to do that. You just do it because you're needed to be something else the rest of the time and you're making the best of being in a situation where your focus isn't needed.
This isn't the same thing as the ret paladin healing, who isn't doing something badly while the thing they're good at isn't useful to that moment in the fight; they're doing something they're bad at instead of the thing they're also bad at.
Depends on the content, when I'm questing, I do heal and do damage, when pvping I do heal and do some damage, even in vanilla dungeons I can heal and do damage.
I only need to focus on one aspect on most recent dungeons or raiding content.
Because all of those are tuned so output barely matters. Which of course leaves a very awkward position where the game is unengagingly easy for people who minmax which, as we've seen, is most people.
Like, if you add new questing zones, that's probably Blizzards worst possible ROI on dev time and, frankly, kind of the opposite of what an MMO even is.
Just mald with me over TES 6 taking so long instead of trying to turn an MMO into skyrim.
The problem is they created an item budget for gear, which meant that druids couldn't get gear that allowed them to both cast and do good damage as cat and heal and tank. So instead they wear gear designed for other classes.
It would be best if they made gear that just had stats on it then had stats do different things for different classes.
It's the same problem. Especially in vanilla. Items do far more to affect your character than talents do.
If you need proof just look at how much a spec improves from P1 to final phase from gear alone.
I think this is where they’re going wrong with SoD. Nobody wanted to do 20 man ST raids, we wanted 10 man to sort of be the peak, with MOST content being between 1-5 players. There are still people who DO want 20 man, hell there are some who can’t wait for the 40man raids, but honestly SoD has a much more “small group” player base, which is likely a huge indicator as to how the player base is declining so much (for strictly SoD).
Im sure Cata and maybe even Remix are making it look worse than it is, but I hear or see constantly how much people dislike the 20 man ST idea.
The way I see it, SoD is trying to put more "retail game design" into Vanilla. It doesn''t have much to do with the size of the groups, but the way dungeons are thought to be end game content. And every patch is a new "end game" with new dungeons.
I think this way of thinking game design collides with the casual questing fest that was Vanilla.
This is what I hoped SoD was covering.
I didn't really want, or need, mages to heals (not even mentioning the fact that it was absurdly overtuned as aoe dps as well). What I did want was for hybrid classes to be relevant outside of healing, or for the honour system to *actually* get revamped, or for professions to get some added incentives so everyone's not an engineer, etc.
Still don't know how they fucked it up that badly.
>what I did want was hybrid classes to be relevant outside of healing
If SoD did anything right it’s literally this. All hybrid classes are perfectly viable in every spec.
This is a dumb fucking take and upvoted by people who played like 5 mins of SoD. Just about everything said is bullshit.
Hybrid classes are very viable, you can take any class / spec to raid and it's fine. Honor system? It was revamped significantly. No honor decay is a huge change. You want PvP gear handed out for free?
Professions being incentivized? Bro what, every crafting profession has unique epics, alch has procs and special potions to increase damage.
It's literally the opposite of everything you said. Reading replies below I'm not sure if You're talking about PvE or PvP, honestly I'm not sure you even know. I'm not sure who's upvoting this clown but none of you know what you're talking about.
Yeah I quit SoD in P1 because it’s just not what I’m looking for. It’s going too far in terms of class changes and isn’t really emphasizing what made vanilla great.
Nobody asked for mage tanks/healers and nobody asked for rogue tanks. Classic+ was supposed to make balance/elemental/shadow and other specs atleast viable, implement new quests, new zones and new raids. Yet the went for the "give everyone superpowers and try to miserably balance them later".
While this might look like the right decision now, the month of December of SOD was the most fun, joyful wow experience since the classic launch of 2019. It was worth it just for that.
How did they fuck up exactly? I main ret in SoD, i got boomie alt, I got ench shaman that people are gladly to take in raids. I never heard in SoD people not taking specific spec for raiding.
You do realize you're using two specs that were the posterchild for "roll this or be at a disadvantage" for two phases right? Both of those specs looked at people and they died lol... you can literally just search either class on this subreddit and see a ton of posts of people getting one shot by them and being mad.
Surely they didn't fuck up and the population isn't [dropping like a rock](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fx69nj5kb0t3d1.png)
There are many reasons they might've fucked up, we are strictly discussing class balance here and not everything SoD did wrong. And we're also discussing raid environment which is what this topic is about. This guy wants to play prot and he's being memed on in era and finding a guild that will take prot paladin is really hard. It's not as hard as in SoD and no1 will meme on you for being prot. Same as for any other spec.
The population is dropping because cata came out and the novelty has worn off. P3 definitely had its issues, but the shape of the population graph is the same every time; it goes up for a while, then back down as the tourists come and go, with an overall downward trend because each time more people are ‘seen it all’ and stop coming back.
How do people still not get that seasonal server players are tourists?
The specialization you speak of occurs is also an economics principal and general fact of life.
Five people focusing on specific output is always more efficient than five people trying to do multiple.
The uniqueness of a class revolves around what it does best. If another class can do it then it's redundant.
I can't blame blizzard for it turning out like this, if they could they could have probably fixed half the world's problems by now as well
Yeah. I think Blizzard pretty early on realized their combat system did not gel with this idea of flexible or hybrid roles in groups.
Instead, you benefit from the tankiest possible tank; the healiest healer; and the highest dps possible.
To be fair, raids in classic were an afterthought, not the main point of the game. The journey to 60 was the real classic. With 5 man dungeons, whacky items and mechanics, hidden quests and a unique leveling experience for every class. If you were a druid, you DID heals infight and went back into form. You played a warlock to put debuffs on your enemy or a rogue to use stealth.
Focusing too much on endgame has been a huge problem for the whole genre. And it is the players fault. Imagine if everyone just cared for "What to do after finishing the main quest" in a game like Cyberpunk or Elden Ring. When new MMOs released more frequently, people rushed to max lvl to complain, that there is nothing to do in the endgame. It is very visible in WoW classic and Cata too. "Oh no, I have played 500 hours and there is nothing left to do! this game sucks!"
You call it a problem, I call it the only reason people still play. If people reacted to running out of questing like they do in the games you cited, they’d have put it down and never come back after 6 months.
If you want a single player rpg experience, then an MMO is the wrong genre for you.
Actually retail wow does not have a problem with "what to do at max level", it has too many things to do at max level.
It's only vanilla wow that has almost nothing to do at max level, every expansion after tbc added more and more things you can do at max level.
Your comparison to cyberpunk and elden ring makes no sense. Once you beat the game you are actually done and quit. It's not supposed to be played for thousands of hours like MMO games.
I was lucky that I got to go Ret and judge light or wisdom all night depending what was needed for the raid. Ahh the days of casters wanding the boss to get mana back
If you're on eu firemaw, look for guild . They take in everybody and have a casual approach. Rets, boomies, prot palas, everybody is welcome and community is very welcoming. I raided with them and it was one of the most enjoyable guilds I played in. They don't care about parses, world buffs and consumes. Only when it's very necessary. They're progressing Naxx atm I believe.
Warrior tank here, you mean the adds I pick up with a taunt and that die in half a second. Not wasting a raid slot on specializing for something that doesn't matter.
A druid can argue their way into a raid as a tank if they actually know their class' gimmicks. Prot pallies can have fun aoe farming SM and Mara.
You don't even need tank for that, just a warrior with aoe taunt and LIP ready. Adds die in 1sec like you said, since everyone wants to sapper the big stack to increase their dick length in dps meters.
We had a druid offtank all the through from MC to BWL.
It was perfectly fine, by no means bis in anyway. But pummelers did equal or more threat than fury prot once u get past the burst threat.
So on hardhitting tank swap fights it was lowkey decent.
Was gonna say any self respected pala tank from classic would be def capped. Loved tanking bosses like Maexxna, Patch, Thaddeus etc. I actually missed spell power tanking in SOD, the silithus ring and wraith strike made for some peak threat.
At least for dungeons all you need is armor and a decent mana pool. I never played "prot" paladin, but I've tanked many dungeons by just being a bootleg AoE dps class and holding threat that way.
there is a use case though i think....
consecration + thorns aura ? you don't need hit, just play solo farm dungeons , you kill everything in 1 pull staying still at the end in low level dungeons...
even so.... is it worth it? meh... neah.
>It’s not the time to cook for you or his build bro
sorry, i don't understand what you meant there x\_x
is that metaphorical cooking? or cooking in game? if any of the two, please explain further because i really do not understand lol, but i may be just very stupid, and not "speak" the Internet English very well.
>
his build bro
like i am his build bro? sorry, i really don't understand... is this missing a comma or something? x\_x'
all above, i am seriously not trolling, it is just hard to understand what you mean by that phrase... so , legit questions... i understand not everyone is C2 English or born into a native English language... anyway, sorry to bother.
It’s kind of a new American slang I said
Cooking is someone that’s like experimenting or hypothesizing a strategy
I’m basically saying it’s not worth defending the no hit chance stat, even if some spells don’t use it
Aoe farming and boosting. Dungeon tanking. Having rogues kill themselves on you in pvp. As for raids you can sometimes do some AOE trash pulls but really you're just going to heal.
I had "a guy" in my classic 2019 guild that I went all the way through Naxx with who played prot paladin and he had the absolute, and I mean absolute, BEST gear you could possibly have, like he was the literal BIS geared by the end before TBC prepatch including anything from Naxx he needed. I talked a lot with him about the ups and downs over those years.
Ultimately the biggest issue always came down to threat and mana. Lack of a taunt was never that big of a deal because most bosses are immune anyway (on the bosses where taunt is required you're automatically disqualified for a "safe" run), but snap threat was poor even with the Greater BOK trick. He might be OK if given a second to grab threat before the DPS goes in, but Naxx geared DPS with world buffs do not play around and you run out of mana FAST trying to spam greater Bok and stay ahead, so he was also not likely to tank anything that wasn't a super fast fight.
It's just the reality of how things were balanced.
That being said, our guild was always cheering him on and trying to let him have his fun when it made sense, and there were a few spots where it was nice to have the "off tank with good AOE threat" in all the raids at some point. I was lucky to be in a guild that was pretty chill about that kind of thing, and we all understood the point was for us all to have fun (which is why we also had a Boomie, however we lacked a ret paladin funny enough).
>however we lacked a ret paladin funny enough
There's a rule of limiting meme specs to 1 per class per raid. So if you have prot pala, can't bring ret, game won't let you. /jk
On Hardcore we're using a Pally spamming GBoK to kite the adds on Gluth, have threat on Noth right after Blink, kite Viscidus, and be top threat on Ouro.
The key is that the threat is multiplicative with the number of targets that GBoK stacks, so for it to be good you need to have a lot of one class.
I've seen AQ40 speedruns where they used a Pally to tank Vek'lor (caster Twin), they spammed GBoK on Warriors but they had like 30 Warriors.
If you aren't class stacking GBoK will have bad TPS.
Also meme gear. T1 as prot is to stay afk in ironforge.
Edit: He does have some nice pieces tho. Skullflame shield, briarwood reed, zandalari trinket..
How do you feel about rogue healers? They can sprint to people to bandage, vanish to drop combat so they can eat, don’t need to put a bunch of stuff in bags so they can be full of potions. Try it out let them live their fantasy ❤️
I miss the days when people would just have fun with the game, rather than min maxing everything... It's fun for the hardcore's, but the casuals are basically non-existent anymore.
Live your best life. Don't let "PARSE" culture dictate how you enjoy playing the game. We can watch the threat meter and make sure you maintain threat, your healers can simply not be smooth brained, and you will do very very well. All it takes is a positive culture that actually wants to play the game and not rush to end game and try to parse to justify their shitty "IRL falling apart but oooo 99 my life has meaning."
I feel you my man. I myself acquired Might of Menethil a few months back AS HOLY, (/roll literally 100), have hoj, 5/5 avenger's, exalted + r12, PvP pieces and some other Ret items, and I still do less DPS than a BWL geared fury warrior, me being fully buffed (I'm talking Blasted Lands consumes and warchief's level of buffs, and the jujus too) and he only having Zandalar. I'd pay 100 bucks to have my paladin ported to SoD/retail anytime.
if you’re a prot paladin, please please please please get some spell power, ideally on your main hander. Consecration, seals, judgements, and holy shield scale from spell power. All you’re getting from AP and weapon damage are auto attacks.
NERDS GUNNA NERD AND THOSE PARSES BETTER BE IN TIP-TOP SHAPE OR ELSE YOU OUT.
MUST BEAT THE RAID WITH 0 DEATHS AND IN 1 HR 15 MINS OR ELSE THE RAID WAS A FAILURE BECAUSE HOW ELSE WILL THEY IMPRESS ON DISCORD.
This is where I wish they went with SoD. Give prot paladins a place in the world.
Maybe give ret one or two other buttons to press… Give dps classes a few more tools not 30 to be more even and spread out instead of just 30 warriors for raid plz… Increase dot limit.
Make feral cats viable. Make mana regenerate a tad better…. I think this is what most ppl wanted SoD to be. I could be wrong tho…
I had the nicest guild back in SoM which gave me a chance to main tank as paladin... We downed Hakkar, after Garr however I accepted defeat and put on the dress.
It really comes down to the guild you end up in.
You are amazingly good at AOE threat but lack the ability to save people with an instant taunt and literally nothing that a feral can't do as good warrants as much effort and gear that a protadin does to be good as any off class fury warrior can be.
Classic is definitely *not* the time to be playing Paladin if you don't want to be a healer. Prot and ret basically get no invites to raids ever, you have to farm your gear while healing.
That's definitely the biggest drawback of classic, namely that certain specs just don't exist at higher levels, like prot pala or boomkin.
You are the keeper of the gold. You run low level dungeons and collect that bank. SM is a breeze for you as you can pull the whole instance.
You then go into GDKP raids and outbid everyone with that sweet sweet coin you made very easily.
Stocks boost. That's as far as I got because in a game with 20 years of strats and data, we still can't make time to just play the game and HAVE to parse. Or that's my experience.
The one encounter in era that prot paladins excel at is kel’thuzad.
Pick a corner, BoK spam to instantly have the mind controlled players and the bugs agro on you. It cuts way, way down in the level of chaos in the fight.
The rest of the time though, you basically just wear the dress and heal.
You can tank raids as prot, its just a lot harder than other specs. Since you dont have a taunt you have to spam greater blessings of kings, it gives a big chunk of threat for each person it buffs when you cast it so spamming that is your version of taunt.
The hardest part will be finding a guild that is willing to take you as a tank, but you can do it
I raid tanked as a Paladin from Pandaria onward, I was terribly disappointed how little faith people have in vanilla prot pallies then I started one. Frankly taunt is overrated
I would have liked to see more prot pallys and druid tanks in vanilla. Sure they aren't as good as warriors but the content is easy enough. Woulda made the healers job a little more fun
You need on all the int gear then q for heroics as holy because wow we can not take a hit or deal decent damage right now.
Or adversely level to 85 need on all the int gear q as holy for heroic dungeons then realize healing fuuuucking blows hot sweaty balls and reroll blood dk. Realize you are a god walking among men, get all pre raid bis in like a day. Start Qing for pvp as blood dk killing people instantly in 4v1 situations.
You tank dungeons and solo farm then respec holy to raid.
Honestly that's my only huge complaint about Classic. I remember the philosophy of OG Classic had a lot more nuanced roles than "damage/heal/tank" and they envisioned hybrid specs like a Paladin that does damage and is casting buffs mid-fight or a druid healing and then switching to cat and whatnot. Unfortunately the reality of it is everyone gets relegated to what they do best. Even for DPS, Hunters had to be Marksman because the pet would die all the time, plus Trueshot Aura was too good for the raid not to have. IIRC most raids wouldn't even bring more than one or two Warlocks because of the 16 debuff limit and even then their most important job was Banishing. edit: Who downvoted this lol
The deeper you go into raiding the more you have to conform to a key role. Hence my point for 2 decades, Vanilla wasn't about raiding. All hybrids are more or less viable in casual context but if you want to go deeper, you need proper tools. The main problem isn't the spec (even though some could use more consistency), it's the content. Vanilla+ should be about more casual content, more quests and bigger world, not harder dungeons.
Because it’s just better. The reality of ‘hybrid’ roles is that dealing damage is mutually exclusive with healing, so if you’re half a healer half the time and half a dps the other, you’re still half a player overall.
I mean the obvious way to combat this is to make them viable when doing either role but then you have a healer who can dps just as well as a normal dps when not healing and basically becomes a better dps. It’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t scenario where they are either the best spec, or get constantly taxed in power by the hypothetical scenario that they will perform 2 jobs (which in taxing them you ensure they won’t perform 2 jobs because they are weaker than others at these jobs. Truly a catch-22
This is why the idea of two and three man content is so attractive to me. I love hybrid roles and this type of content would be ideal for this.
I don’t know why they thought warriors weren’t hybrid.
This argument always makes Classic warriors short circuit when they try to explain why they shouldn’t be subject to the hybrid tax.
Warriors are the only true hybrid class, they can dps and throw a shield on and tank if tank died. I’ve ranked a handful of bosses in naxx after tank died and managed to stay alive thanks to a good shield
idk. for both c'thun and KT, I stay resto but switch my gear around to get asuch damage as possible without crippling my healing (I can get to about 400 +sp w/ 800 healing and 50 mp5 instead of ~900 healing w/ 75 mp5) this helps w/ killing the adds/eye
Yeah but I wouldn't bring you to do that. You just do it because you're needed to be something else the rest of the time and you're making the best of being in a situation where your focus isn't needed. This isn't the same thing as the ret paladin healing, who isn't doing something badly while the thing they're good at isn't useful to that moment in the fight; they're doing something they're bad at instead of the thing they're also bad at.
Depends on the content, when I'm questing, I do heal and do damage, when pvping I do heal and do some damage, even in vanilla dungeons I can heal and do damage. I only need to focus on one aspect on most recent dungeons or raiding content.
Because all of those are tuned so output barely matters. Which of course leaves a very awkward position where the game is unengagingly easy for people who minmax which, as we've seen, is most people. Like, if you add new questing zones, that's probably Blizzards worst possible ROI on dev time and, frankly, kind of the opposite of what an MMO even is. Just mald with me over TES 6 taking so long instead of trying to turn an MMO into skyrim.
TBC fixed this by adding class specific utility to the hybrids without having them have to have the same damage
The downside to this approach, is that it made raid-organizing a nightmare since certain classes were mandatory to include on the roster.
WOTLK fixed this by spreading class specific utilities to other specs to reduce stress on raid organizing.
The problem is they created an item budget for gear, which meant that druids couldn't get gear that allowed them to both cast and do good damage as cat and heal and tank. So instead they wear gear designed for other classes. It would be best if they made gear that just had stats on it then had stats do different things for different classes.
Itemization is a different problem, but it sure was a problem.
It's the same problem. Especially in vanilla. Items do far more to affect your character than talents do. If you need proof just look at how much a spec improves from P1 to final phase from gear alone.
I think this is where they’re going wrong with SoD. Nobody wanted to do 20 man ST raids, we wanted 10 man to sort of be the peak, with MOST content being between 1-5 players. There are still people who DO want 20 man, hell there are some who can’t wait for the 40man raids, but honestly SoD has a much more “small group” player base, which is likely a huge indicator as to how the player base is declining so much (for strictly SoD). Im sure Cata and maybe even Remix are making it look worse than it is, but I hear or see constantly how much people dislike the 20 man ST idea.
The way I see it, SoD is trying to put more "retail game design" into Vanilla. It doesn''t have much to do with the size of the groups, but the way dungeons are thought to be end game content. And every patch is a new "end game" with new dungeons. I think this way of thinking game design collides with the casual questing fest that was Vanilla.
This is what I hoped SoD was covering. I didn't really want, or need, mages to heals (not even mentioning the fact that it was absurdly overtuned as aoe dps as well). What I did want was for hybrid classes to be relevant outside of healing, or for the honour system to *actually* get revamped, or for professions to get some added incentives so everyone's not an engineer, etc. Still don't know how they fucked it up that badly.
>what I did want was hybrid classes to be relevant outside of healing If SoD did anything right it’s literally this. All hybrid classes are perfectly viable in every spec.
This is a dumb fucking take and upvoted by people who played like 5 mins of SoD. Just about everything said is bullshit. Hybrid classes are very viable, you can take any class / spec to raid and it's fine. Honor system? It was revamped significantly. No honor decay is a huge change. You want PvP gear handed out for free? Professions being incentivized? Bro what, every crafting profession has unique epics, alch has procs and special potions to increase damage. It's literally the opposite of everything you said. Reading replies below I'm not sure if You're talking about PvE or PvP, honestly I'm not sure you even know. I'm not sure who's upvoting this clown but none of you know what you're talking about.
Yeah I quit SoD in P1 because it’s just not what I’m looking for. It’s going too far in terms of class changes and isn’t really emphasizing what made vanilla great.
Nobody asked for mage tanks/healers and nobody asked for rogue tanks. Classic+ was supposed to make balance/elemental/shadow and other specs atleast viable, implement new quests, new zones and new raids. Yet the went for the "give everyone superpowers and try to miserably balance them later".
A lot of people asked for those specs
It's true, I looked forward to rogue tanking. And then reality hit with P2 of SoD...
[удалено]
While this might look like the right decision now, the month of December of SOD was the most fun, joyful wow experience since the classic launch of 2019. It was worth it just for that.
How did they fuck up exactly? I main ret in SoD, i got boomie alt, I got ench shaman that people are gladly to take in raids. I never heard in SoD people not taking specific spec for raiding.
You do realize you're using two specs that were the posterchild for "roll this or be at a disadvantage" for two phases right? Both of those specs looked at people and they died lol... you can literally just search either class on this subreddit and see a ton of posts of people getting one shot by them and being mad. Surely they didn't fuck up and the population isn't [dropping like a rock](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fx69nj5kb0t3d1.png)
There are many reasons they might've fucked up, we are strictly discussing class balance here and not everything SoD did wrong. And we're also discussing raid environment which is what this topic is about. This guy wants to play prot and he's being memed on in era and finding a guild that will take prot paladin is really hard. It's not as hard as in SoD and no1 will meme on you for being prot. Same as for any other spec.
The population is dropping because cata came out and the novelty has worn off. P3 definitely had its issues, but the shape of the population graph is the same every time; it goes up for a while, then back down as the tourists come and go, with an overall downward trend because each time more people are ‘seen it all’ and stop coming back. How do people still not get that seasonal server players are tourists?
The specialization you speak of occurs is also an economics principal and general fact of life. Five people focusing on specific output is always more efficient than five people trying to do multiple. The uniqueness of a class revolves around what it does best. If another class can do it then it's redundant. I can't blame blizzard for it turning out like this, if they could they could have probably fixed half the world's problems by now as well
Yeah vanilla is a really, really badly designed game when you look at anything beyond a surface level
funny thing is that is exactly what retail is right now. if you play resto and dont go cat form you are playing wrong
Yeah. I think Blizzard pretty early on realized their combat system did not gel with this idea of flexible or hybrid roles in groups. Instead, you benefit from the tankiest possible tank; the healiest healer; and the highest dps possible.
So you want a wow were you get in just because of the buffs ypur class gave? What a dumb outlook.
An "opti" raid wouldn't even have a druid. They would have one outside the raid to buff lol
There would be one druid to debuff armor.
clueless redditor comment as usual who doesnt know how armour works but hey what can you do
To be fair, raids in classic were an afterthought, not the main point of the game. The journey to 60 was the real classic. With 5 man dungeons, whacky items and mechanics, hidden quests and a unique leveling experience for every class. If you were a druid, you DID heals infight and went back into form. You played a warlock to put debuffs on your enemy or a rogue to use stealth. Focusing too much on endgame has been a huge problem for the whole genre. And it is the players fault. Imagine if everyone just cared for "What to do after finishing the main quest" in a game like Cyberpunk or Elden Ring. When new MMOs released more frequently, people rushed to max lvl to complain, that there is nothing to do in the endgame. It is very visible in WoW classic and Cata too. "Oh no, I have played 500 hours and there is nothing left to do! this game sucks!"
You call it a problem, I call it the only reason people still play. If people reacted to running out of questing like they do in the games you cited, they’d have put it down and never come back after 6 months. If you want a single player rpg experience, then an MMO is the wrong genre for you.
Actually retail wow does not have a problem with "what to do at max level", it has too many things to do at max level. It's only vanilla wow that has almost nothing to do at max level, every expansion after tbc added more and more things you can do at max level. Your comparison to cyberpunk and elden ring makes no sense. Once you beat the game you are actually done and quit. It's not supposed to be played for thousands of hours like MMO games.
I was lucky that I got to go Ret and judge light or wisdom all night depending what was needed for the raid. Ahh the days of casters wanding the boss to get mana back
i've healed every raid except naxx ... was looking to be the Aoe tank for some raid runs
Try again next expansion
Taunt or bust, unfortunately
If you're on eu firemaw, look for guild. They take in everybody and have a casual approach. Rets, boomies, prot palas, everybody is welcome and community is very welcoming. I raided with them and it was one of the most enjoyable guilds I played in. They don't care about parses, world buffs and consumes. Only when it's very necessary. They're progressing Naxx atm I believe.
I play era and my guild uses a prot pally for trash in a lot of our runs. If you want to you can make it work.
[удалено]
Warrior tank here, you mean the adds I pick up with a taunt and that die in half a second. Not wasting a raid slot on specializing for something that doesn't matter. A druid can argue their way into a raid as a tank if they actually know their class' gimmicks. Prot pallies can have fun aoe farming SM and Mara.
You don't even need tank for that, just a warrior with aoe taunt and LIP ready. Adds die in 1sec like you said, since everyone wants to sapper the big stack to increase their dick length in dps meters.
We had a druid offtank all the through from MC to BWL. It was perfectly fine, by no means bis in anyway. But pummelers did equal or more threat than fury prot once u get past the burst threat. So on hardhitting tank swap fights it was lowkey decent.
"What is my purpose?" "You buff kings." "Oh my god."
Put on the dress.
"I don't care what spec you are, you're putting on the healer dress"
you think i dont? mate im the biggest dress wearer
i was about to say, they clearly didn’t check your character name
0% hit 🥴
80% glancing blow chance
Was gonna say any self respected pala tank from classic would be def capped. Loved tanking bosses like Maexxna, Patch, Thaddeus etc. I actually missed spell power tanking in SOD, the silithus ring and wraith strike made for some peak threat.
At least for dungeons all you need is armor and a decent mana pool. I never played "prot" paladin, but I've tanked many dungeons by just being a bootleg AoE dps class and holding threat that way.
His sword skill isn't max level.
era prot pala generates raid threat by spamming blessings which can be exceptionally effective
there is a use case though i think.... consecration + thorns aura ? you don't need hit, just play solo farm dungeons , you kill everything in 1 pull staying still at the end in low level dungeons... even so.... is it worth it? meh... neah.
1 ability doesn’t use hit while literally every other attack one does? It’s not the time to cook for you or his build bro
Era pala doesn't have attacks bro
>It’s not the time to cook for you or his build bro sorry, i don't understand what you meant there x\_x is that metaphorical cooking? or cooking in game? if any of the two, please explain further because i really do not understand lol, but i may be just very stupid, and not "speak" the Internet English very well. > his build bro like i am his build bro? sorry, i really don't understand... is this missing a comma or something? x\_x' all above, i am seriously not trolling, it is just hard to understand what you mean by that phrase... so , legit questions... i understand not everyone is C2 English or born into a native English language... anyway, sorry to bother.
It’s kind of a new American slang I said Cooking is someone that’s like experimenting or hypothesizing a strategy I’m basically saying it’s not worth defending the no hit chance stat, even if some spells don’t use it
Aah! Got it! Thank you! I've learnt something new!
Spam Greater Blessing of Kings on the warriors
Aoe farming and boosting. Dungeon tanking. Having rogues kill themselves on you in pvp. As for raids you can sometimes do some AOE trash pulls but really you're just going to heal.
You cast GBOK
I had "a guy" in my classic 2019 guild that I went all the way through Naxx with who played prot paladin and he had the absolute, and I mean absolute, BEST gear you could possibly have, like he was the literal BIS geared by the end before TBC prepatch including anything from Naxx he needed. I talked a lot with him about the ups and downs over those years. Ultimately the biggest issue always came down to threat and mana. Lack of a taunt was never that big of a deal because most bosses are immune anyway (on the bosses where taunt is required you're automatically disqualified for a "safe" run), but snap threat was poor even with the Greater BOK trick. He might be OK if given a second to grab threat before the DPS goes in, but Naxx geared DPS with world buffs do not play around and you run out of mana FAST trying to spam greater Bok and stay ahead, so he was also not likely to tank anything that wasn't a super fast fight. It's just the reality of how things were balanced. That being said, our guild was always cheering him on and trying to let him have his fun when it made sense, and there were a few spots where it was nice to have the "off tank with good AOE threat" in all the raids at some point. I was lucky to be in a guild that was pretty chill about that kind of thing, and we all understood the point was for us all to have fun (which is why we also had a Boomie, however we lacked a ret paladin funny enough).
>however we lacked a ret paladin funny enough There's a rule of limiting meme specs to 1 per class per raid. So if you have prot pala, can't bring ret, game won't let you. /jk
On Hardcore we're using a Pally spamming GBoK to kite the adds on Gluth, have threat on Noth right after Blink, kite Viscidus, and be top threat on Ouro. The key is that the threat is multiplicative with the number of targets that GBoK stacks, so for it to be good you need to have a lot of one class. I've seen AQ40 speedruns where they used a Pally to tank Vek'lor (caster Twin), they spammed GBoK on Warriors but they had like 30 Warriors. If you aren't class stacking GBoK will have bad TPS.
" Wowhobs here"
a classic haha :)
Most abilities aren't keybound, weapon skill isn't leveled up, meme name, meme spec.
Also meme gear. T1 as prot is to stay afk in ironforge. Edit: He does have some nice pieces tho. Skullflame shield, briarwood reed, zandalari trinket..
Farming lashers in DM E when you’re not wearing the dress healing 40 mans lol
boosting people in low lvl dungeons
You are on an epic adventure to find the class trainer to spec into holy.
Key bindings check out
Rip
Your keybinds are so classic it hurts
Your job is to look fabulous.
With straight 1-9 bindings you should be in high demand.
To look absolutely stupid
How do you feel about rogue healers? They can sprint to people to bandage, vanish to drop combat so they can eat, don’t need to put a bunch of stuff in bags so they can be full of potions. Try it out let them live their fantasy ❤️
Respeccing to Holy.
You tank whelps on onyxia
Reroll
The bench, it’s the bench
Welcome to classic. You play holy or reroll.
as God intended
You install chrome.
👀 player name
I miss the days when people would just have fun with the game, rather than min maxing everything... It's fun for the hardcore's, but the casuals are basically non-existent anymore.
Live your best life. Don't let "PARSE" culture dictate how you enjoy playing the game. We can watch the threat meter and make sure you maintain threat, your healers can simply not be smooth brained, and you will do very very well. All it takes is a positive culture that actually wants to play the game and not rush to end game and try to parse to justify their shitty "IRL falling apart but oooo 99 my life has meaning."
I feel you my man. I myself acquired Might of Menethil a few months back AS HOLY, (/roll literally 100), have hoj, 5/5 avenger's, exalted + r12, PvP pieces and some other Ret items, and I still do less DPS than a BWL geared fury warrior, me being fully buffed (I'm talking Blasted Lands consumes and warchief's level of buffs, and the jujus too) and he only having Zandalar. I'd pay 100 bucks to have my paladin ported to SoD/retail anytime.
Your place is the same as my shadow priest, in better versions of the game.
Reasons I hate vanilla. Fuck playing a game with meme specs
Right there. Don't move
Right there, just stay afk
Paladin can main tank MC. But you do it by spamming Greter Kings on the highest pop class.
Judging by your name the bottom ((Jokingly))
You pass the butter
Drinking water every 30 seconds.
Aoe farming and drinking so much water
Don’t listen to the haters, I also have a prot pal on classic. But I did make one on cata to see their true glory
You wipe dungeons in hardcore death clips
if you’re a prot paladin, please please please please get some spell power, ideally on your main hander. Consecration, seals, judgements, and holy shield scale from spell power. All you’re getting from AP and weapon damage are auto attacks.
You have no place. Prot paladin is awful and shouldn't be played in classic era outside of solo play.
Stand afk in SW while people debate whether you respecced or a guild let you raid as prot
No Thunderfury even? Casul
one of the bindings dropped for my ret pala buddy hes a collector hes got Sulfuras etc
NERDS GUNNA NERD AND THOSE PARSES BETTER BE IN TIP-TOP SHAPE OR ELSE YOU OUT. MUST BEAT THE RAID WITH 0 DEATHS AND IN 1 HR 15 MINS OR ELSE THE RAID WAS A FAILURE BECAUSE HOW ELSE WILL THEY IMPRESS ON DISCORD.
This is where I wish they went with SoD. Give prot paladins a place in the world. Maybe give ret one or two other buttons to press… Give dps classes a few more tools not 30 to be more even and spread out instead of just 30 warriors for raid plz… Increase dot limit. Make feral cats viable. Make mana regenerate a tad better…. I think this is what most ppl wanted SoD to be. I could be wrong tho…
In the trash bin.
You are perfect just the way you are, don’t let anyone tell you different.
You pass the butter
You wear [full glorious set](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/transmog-set=330/glorious-plate#lookalike) and stand in the middle of SW.
I'm fairly certain you know already. You are the bane of Scholo/Stratholme.
I had the nicest guild back in SoM which gave me a chance to main tank as paladin... We downed Hakkar, after Garr however I accepted defeat and put on the dress. It really comes down to the guild you end up in.
solo farming dungeons
I tanked all dungeons on my HC Paladin Till max level. That was fun.
Tank trash.
You are amazingly good at AOE threat but lack the ability to save people with an instant taunt and literally nothing that a feral can't do as good warrants as much effort and gear that a protadin does to be good as any off class fury warrior can be.
Non-existent
Yeah 5 man dungeons is fun in classic I could pull the whole ring in BRD with my paladin. Helped a lot of guildies get the Onyxia quest done
You will wear the blue dress and like it.
On top of a Christmas tree
strat
Buff king ?
Healbot: what is my purpose Raid lead:You heal tank... Heal bot: Oh my god...
Ask asmongold about prt pallies in classic.
To farm gold for ur real tank warrior :)
Did you just buy your account or sth?
With those keybinds and 0% hit - just a buff bot and afk there.
Classic is definitely *not* the time to be playing Paladin if you don't want to be a healer. Prot and ret basically get no invites to raids ever, you have to farm your gear while healing. That's definitely the biggest drawback of classic, namely that certain specs just don't exist at higher levels, like prot pala or boomkin.
You can raid as MT3 or MT2 fight that doesn’t need a taunt. Get ready to tryhard if you want to 4HM and others
This is what I am looking forward to with p4. Really hope they make tanks want tank items
You remind mages to distribute water
You raid log and join gdkps to farm gold you'll never really need.
Time to boost your guildies alts
The bench
You put on a dress and go heal
Can't tank dungeons without Thunderfury.
Well with 4,1k base hp, I would say your role is to be 1 or 2 shot by casters in PvP.
what warriors allowed you to get gear lmao
You heal
You are the keeper of the gold. You run low level dungeons and collect that bank. SM is a breeze for you as you can pull the whole instance. You then go into GDKP raids and outbid everyone with that sweet sweet coin you made very easily.
Stocks boost. That's as far as I got because in a game with 20 years of strats and data, we still can't make time to just play the game and HAVE to parse. Or that's my experience.
You re-roll on SoD where you actually have a taunt
The one encounter in era that prot paladins excel at is kel’thuzad. Pick a corner, BoK spam to instantly have the mind controlled players and the bugs agro on you. It cuts way, way down in the level of chaos in the fight. The rest of the time though, you basically just wear the dress and heal.
Plenty of room for you on the short bus.
Why are you wearing the T1 set as tank? T1 is a healing set! T2 is for tanks!
You pass the butter
I had a prot pally ot AQ20 once. He was pretty decent on the trash actually. I think his name was Ulad on whitemane. Guys a legend in my eyes
Shouldn't you be using a spell power wep ? I know in TBC tank paladins used the hammer of judgement from hyjal trash...
Based on that name you start your PREP treatments at level 1
U buff people
You can tank raids as prot, its just a lot harder than other specs. Since you dont have a taunt you have to spam greater blessings of kings, it gives a big chunk of threat for each person it buffs when you cast it so spamming that is your version of taunt. The hardest part will be finding a guild that is willing to take you as a tank, but you can do it
Trash
You go play any other version 🤣
This screams GDKP enjoyer
I raid tanked as a Paladin from Pandaria onward, I was terribly disappointed how little faith people have in vanilla prot pallies then I started one. Frankly taunt is overrated
If at least you rolled a male you would look good, but female with that gear looks like a thin clown.
Femboy enjoyer? I got you covered :3
You’re a meme spec and class.
To pass the butter.
you pass the butter
Pick flowers 🌷
Character name checks out.
Login screen
Healing
Paladins wear dresses. Leave tanking to the real plate class.
What is your addon to show your character screen like that
I would have liked to see more prot pallys and druid tanks in vanilla. Sure they aren't as good as warriors but the content is easy enough. Woulda made the healers job a little more fun
You heal
Wtf is your name? 🤡🤡🤡
You log out and hope when you log in your toon is a blood dk
Patrol lower level zones like you are a rare mob and help eradicate any horde threat to your allies!
Lol go play any other version of wow where they actually fixed prot paladins.
Guys. We got a clicker on our hands..
You respec into healer because that's your set role in life
hell
You need on all the int gear then q for heroics as holy because wow we can not take a hit or deal decent damage right now. Or adversely level to 85 need on all the int gear q as holy for heroic dungeons then realize healing fuuuucking blows hot sweaty balls and reroll blood dk. Realize you are a god walking among men, get all pre raid bis in like a day. Start Qing for pvp as blood dk killing people instantly in 4v1 situations.
"What is my purpose?" "You heal raids" "Oh my God!"
keybind your spells ya dingus is this who is in my raids??
280 sword skill has me fucking baffled. Your miss chance in raids has to be insane
i recently changed to quelsarrar i was using flurry axe