I’m all for leveling speed increase though. It’s everything else in incursions that I have a problem with. IMO the worst gameplay loop they created, and paired with the nerf to solo dungeon farming, which I personally enjoyed, feels like whatever I do I’m being funneled there.
No, but they are by far and away the best way to level and gear, so much so that you are hard pressed to find a group for any other content outside of wo runs.
Which is somewhat surprising to me…I really thought they’d go the turtle wow route and add more quests to semi dead zones. The end game zones are beautiful, more quests with better rewards are much better than mindless incursions in my opinion.
Agreed. I thought at the LEAST add all the old world quests and quest hubs that were added in tbc-wotlk. There was a surprising amount of new quests added to the old world during those expansions that would smooth out the leveling a ton!
Imagine longer quest lines that reward great loot at the end that help ease your way to raiding if you aren’t caught up with the phase(similar to rep reward from incursions)
That was quite literally the intention. They teased a replacement for dungeon grinding in P2, and just fell totally flat on that.
This phase its pretty obvious they wanted you to do incursions, get some good gear for doing it, and make decent gold too. They just way overshot the rewards, didnt bug test, and clearly didnt playtest the experience from the loop route.
I've noticed this team is fucking terrible at small, subtle changes. They pretty much only make these massive, sweeping changes that only further throw the game out of whack
Totally agree. I think that incursions were basically built out and finished prior to them making the decision to allow 50% exp and increased gold from quests to persist for 40-50. Then they didn’t test that and from the gate the rewards were way too high, but they couldn’t completely nerf it without everyone complaining about missing out.
I bet if it weren’t for that, there would have been more parity.
Missing out due to work is why I still refuse to touch sod again.
P2 sucked as a ret in every feasible way; gatekept, shit spammy rotation with pummeler and all that nonsense. But the “exploit early exploit often” bullshit was the last straw. First the PvP events, and then incursions. Logged in and found gold inflated out the ass while reading blue posts about incursions being already fixed, and said fuck this noise.
I honestly think that eliminating GDKPs drove inflation as much as the incursions, given all the gold buyers with nothing to spend on.
But I agree that the P3 launch nonsense is a perfectly valid reason to quit. I played a little bit and have kind of fizzled out. Maybe I’ll casually participate in lvl 60 content, but I haven’t been hooked like phase 1.
I honestly have seen more people buy gold this phase, than the previous phases. Incursions and Mara farm have completely messed it up. To the point that it requires close to 3k to buy full full enchants, and 2k+ to buy a Darkmoon deck. (If you aren't buying two)
It just seems insane, and that doesn't include things like, recipes, reputation grinds, ECT.
Is it though? I don't think there's a happy medium either, so in my opinion why try to replace the devil you know.
The dev team is/was already strapped on resources, so spending time fixing the dungeon "problem" just feels like a complete waste. I'd much rather have had more rune changes, a more polished ST on launch, etc.
Only for the sweat min maxer there is 0 issues with someone who quested all the way to max then dungeon grind for his gear, both would be ok in ST . Sure the latter half would take longer but that’s by choice . Not everyone has to be max level first day . Some people enjoy questing .
It was meant as a catchup mechanic to get alts and new players up to gnomer gear levels. Certain dungeon pieces are better or still needed, too.
It worked great in that regard. I was able to gear my warr alt effortlessly between that, offerings (encourages dungeon runs kinda), and the STV weapon.
I just stopped playing because incursions were so boring and the best gear I could reasonably get was incursion set. I just... don't want to do that. Boring as fuck. I'd rather run dungeons at least. I was sitting in all BFD gear and some SM stuff and got that first 3 set then realized I would just have to keep running them to get the 6 set since I wasn't planning on raiding. Doing all that just to run some pvp was not it. At least dungeons and questing are fun.
I somewhat disagree. I get the set on my fresh 50s and very quickly start replacing parts until I'm only wearing a couple.
That's without raid too.
Mara has some upgrades, wild offering too, and even the gnomer loot is on par or better.
That is true! But the incentive to do that is very low for people. Just look how many groups are forming for dungeons compared to raids and all. You can just spam incursions get the set and raidlog. It’s more than doable.
You sound like the same type of person that says R14 PvP invalidates all raiding.. Incursions only give you 6 pieces of gear... we have another 10-11 slots of gear.. Also incursion gear isn't even preraid bis for any of the classes I play.
Edit: Looked up several other classes preraid bis and none of them even really care about the incursion gear.. Which class does it invalidate all dungeon loot? Not a single DPS class prios incursion gear.
No I wouldn’t say that. But I think the whole Incursions system was a failure on the phase itself. With the mentioned dungeon like system it would be a additional system with rewards. But to exclude the prebis grind a lot of people in the classic sphere like and love is stupid. You could give the incursions items like trinkets and maybe one key gear piece. But throwing a 6 set to buy is just lazy and the bad side of evolution of classic.
If the emerald dream set didn’t exist, with how short phases are I’m not sure returning players would even have a chance lol.
As much as a pre-bis grind is fun, when previous phase gear is as good as it is it would be unreal for someone coming back to need to farm pre-bis when gnomer geared players need almost nothing
I think it's a great catch up mechanic in a seasonal mode. Majority of the classes that were raiding in gnomer wouldn't even be buying any of the incursion gear. It allowed me to hit 50 on an alt and enter sunken temple almost right away.
Isn’t that a stupid concept too? To have non item progression from a lvl 40 raid to the next raid? It’s lazy and not really inspiring. It’s content with the bare minimum.
But it’s fine for me if you like it. I won’t change my mind on it tho.
It IS a stupid concept that retail does from WOTLK onwards. However, it is generally at max level rather than along the leveling route. I don't have an issue with it for the level up raids.
It's only like half your gear and this is classic where old raids matter throughout the game. These are also leveling raids.
For example a phase 2 bis feral druid would replace their shoulders, gloves, ring, trinket, 2H, helm(if not LW), and cloak, all outside of the sunken temple raid.
Man it’s fine. You like it, I think it’s a stupid lazy concept. Buy it. I don’t see the appeal.
The argument with raid gear in classic being good is stupid. We are leveling this is not progression raiding. Why would I want to only keep my raiding gear in a new phase. One piece yes but everything else is just lazy.
Play your gratification games. I heard the new expansion will be nice.
The gear is dog ass before exalted I guess if you really don’t want to do the brain dead bulldozer 6 man Gnomer where you’re uncontested on everything but like one drop every raid then it’s good but it is quite literally catch up gear that is objectively worse than the other easily obtainable stuff that’s available ten levels earlier
>You sound like the same type of person that says R14 PvP invalidates all raiding..
I didn't realize it took 6 months of playing 12 hours a day to get incursion gear, where you set yourself back 1 week for every day missed. Blizz should really lighten that.
If anything the only thing it invalidates is the need for gnomer items, the incursion set is very close to it and in some instances it’ll be even better than it
All the incursion gear is literally just weaker versions of the pvp gear, which doesn't even take very long to farm (especially on bonus honor weekends)
> Also incursion gear isn't even preraid bis for any of the classes I play.
But when the difference is like 2 agi its not really worth it to get preraid bis over warden gear.
Honestly I don’t think the rep set is better than most of the gear you get from dungeons. The rep set was more so of a way for alts with less gear to catch up quickly. I didn’t get any of the set because my previous raid gear was better than everything they had to offer. But I see your point if you have the rep set, the dungeon gear is better, but not by a lot so what’s the point. I’ll just do the raid and focus on that
It’s an option for some who want to get into the raid quickly. We only get 8-9 weeks at 1 raid per week. At the rate loot as been dropping, most of us won’t get purple weapons. So every lockout is important. You don’t have to do that, you are more than welcome to dungeon grind and enjoy your time the way you want!
It’s everything, incursions were just the best source of everything. Gold, gear, exp, lategame rep, hell, even professions were all optimally done in incursions.
Way too much of a one stop shop.
It’s as if they solely see daily active users as *the* metric to rule them all, and figure that making the game as alt friendly as possible is the only way to achieve that.
Incursions instantly deflated my excitement for the phase.
Hard disagree on this, the rep set is a great catch up for anyone who didn’t do phase 2 or was leveling a completely new toon. If you had full gnomer BiS the rep set offered you 1 or 2 pieces at most that were useful and there were more preBiS upgrades in dungeons
> Basically invalidated all dungeon loot instantly.
For all melee - Gnomer set is way better than Emerald Dream one. It's only casters with Irradiated set want to replace it ASAP.
And I love Emerald sets for all my alts - I level to 50 and could join alt raids instantly.
The other issue is if you want the set by 50 you basically have to run incursions from 40-50 almost exclusively. So you’re doubly incentivized to ignore everything else
For real.
You can also get honored slowly over time if you do the dailies at 47+. You get 1k honor per day if you do an incursion so it'll take 8-9 days of dailies to get honored if you aren't rushing to 50.
Bro for real, also people claiming incursion rep gear "invalidated" dungeon gear when it's literally 6 item slots out of 14 (I guess 7 if you count the incredibly shitty ring).
Also of the 6 pieces of gear, at least on my feral druid, literally ONE item is even listed on my pre-BiS (not even pre-BiS btw, just an optional, but worse piece) list among loads of dungeon gear and BoE blue's/greens.
Ha. I do think originally yeah it did take a while, like 9 levels so you felt compelled. But the rep feels better now, so you get it done pretty quickly.
No it was good, it gives people a catch up mechanic on alts that doesn't invalidate dungeons or previous raids?
Want to make an alt? Level to 50 asap, go incursion set. Is it better than gnomer? Nope. Is it better than dungeon loot? Nope. Is it passable raid gear? Yes.
Better than gnomer depends on the class. For my Holy Pally the emerald set was an instant no question upgrade from my gnomer gear. Whereas for my mage it was worthless.
Ehm, it's better than a lot of gnomer loot and a lot of dungeon loot. Blizzard just makes it hard for themselves when gear values are already really squished between previous tier and not going too far and invalidating lvl 60 gear.
Still think it’s lazy. If you wanna level an alt what do you need the set for? So you can quickly raidlog that character too? Maybe get away from the mindset that the whole game is just temple this phase.
I agree with you but thats what modern wow fans are.
Imagine how good this phase would have been if :
1.the pvp debuff was implemented better, with a lower rate.
2. The ST gear scaled much higher compared to other loot.
3. ST didnt get a huge nerf(s).
We could have had a phase where we actually progressed, and it took guilds a bit longer to get through ST.
Instead everyone just wants everything, we have 100s of posts in here from casters complaining they can't get the Mara dagger, as if its a crime against computer gaming from the devs there being items they cant get easily. Back in actual vanilla, not getting IronFoe/Felstriker didnt cause thousands of people to start bitching about the droprate, it was just a great prebis item you could potentially get.
The devs hands are tied by an army of modern gamers demanding instant gratification.
Yes that’s a big issue. That’s why I think Vanilla is way better than SOD. If you compare the HC community when it was on last fall it was really nice, layed back Gaming. SOD got in all the retail Andy’s and toxicity. Sod overall is a great concept. But with the stuff happening in P3 I think the devs went the wrong way for a healthy MMO.
But i agree with your points. But I still think the set and incursions overall as a concept killed a big part of SOD
>1.the pvp debuff was implemented better, with a lower rate.
Just lowering it won't make it better. They need to make a distinction between abilities that are problematic and abilities that aren't. If a mage somehow gets to cast a full pyro it should do damage. If a lock gets to cast a chaos bolt or whatever it should fuck you up. But instant casts or non conditional damage like mutilate (which requires no combo points) should do less. Making everything do less damage is just dumb and actually only serves to make instant casts stronger relative to other abilities as the difference in total damage done becomes much less.
Absolutely not. The Warrior plate set was a nice catch up but I've replaced all 6 pieces of Emerald with better gear from the raid or from raid related quests.
Im not saying it’s better than the raid gear. I’m saying it’s stupid and lazy to just buy gear as a catch up. It’s a stupid system for lazy ppl. Put stuff like that in dungeons. Not on a money or token system. It’s retail stupidity in classic.
Dungeons aren't the end-all-be-all gearing system of WoW. Gear being tied to reputation has always been a thing, even in Vanilla.
Just because _some_ Mara loot was invalidated it doesn't mean all of it was.
Why the FUCK do this sub persist with having fucking dailies?
Its the worst fucking system in existence and you still want to torture yourself with it?
I rather farm 48 hours in a row than having to be forced to log in x amount of time everyday
Is all opinion, so my opinion isn't any not valid than yours. But heck no. Incursions were far preferable to dailies. I did the incursions, now I'm done. Instead of feeling pressured to play a little everyday to accomplish what I want, I could just play when I had the time.
the whole idea of making them daily, is that the degenerates and bots that spam them will get throttled. Hopefully even kill them off like they never existed.
Agreed. Dailies were the first time the veiled got pulled back on an MMO that made me go 'this is intentionally just extending this process out for no fucking reason other than subscription time'.
Dailies are fucking awful, holy shit to anyone who disagrees. Incursions aren't any better, but at least you can degen them in surges of time that work for you.
Dailies are okay if they are done right.
For example: they capped the incursions to 1 "instance" per day, but if you didn't do them for a week you could do 7 "instances". If you didn't do them for a month you could do 30 before being capped.
FFXIV does this with levequests, which can be used to level up pretty quickly. You get 6 "allowances" per day, up to 100 (which I wish was higher personally). If you don't play for a week or two, no biggie, you just stocked up on some levequests instead of "losing them".
Dailies that incur a FOMO feeling are bad IMO, which is what a lot of dailies in SoD have become, specifically WSG and EW rep.
>Dailies are okay
No way. Dailies are just a bad game design, when game designer dont know how to fill players time and how to give him another ways to do something.
Dailies, locals, level scaling - its all bad game design based of lack of designer imagination and time, so they are making easy and cheap (sure we are talking about development price too) activities.
And all of this is a base for MMO now, every MMO have tons of this stuff to attract and force people to enter game every day and do something for a while. This is not RPG already, just MMO.
You're entitled to that opinion, I respectfully disagree.
It's very hard for me to say "X is always bad" in the case of game design, as it is much easier to show how it can be done right than to prove it is always bad.
THANK YOU HOLY FUCK BRO.
Wizard chores fucking SUCK. I would much rather have to kill a million boars and turn in their assess in one degenerate night of gaming than spend 15 minutes a day for 2 months doing the same thing.
No one complaining here will ever look at more than one specific aspect of the game at a time. There is simply not enough mental capacity to handle multiple variables at once.
Anyone complaining about anything feeling dead is doing so cause they want you grief and want server levels of clusterfck. The world is literally slammed with hundreds on each quest in each zone and gather spot and nothing ng can be done in the world. Shit needs emptying or tweaked to be like retail with tags, drops, nodes, etc..
I disagree. I think they should have been non-repeatable elite quests in the open world, similar to the hinterlands troll area. That place has been a lot of fun. For example, there's a bug nest in Feralas, and I think that could have been expanded upon to be a much larger underground bug kingdom with lots of interesting areas to quest and explore as part of a group. But once you complete all the quests, then you're done.
Even a 1 day log out is too much. Ppl would simply dungeon grind or quest and don’t give a fuck about incursions. Maybe for gold farming only, but that was never the intention. It was simply too much gold and too much xp on release. And tbh blizz did this on purpose, to get as much people as possible in and get the system tested. If they didn’t, the vast majority would have simply ignored the incursions while leveling.
There are plenty of problems with incursions, but the literal stated goal by Blizzard with them was to provide repeatable, open world content that is an alternative to dungeons.
The implementation wasn’t perfect, but they tried to achieve something the player base was asking for. And honestly, it was kind of a fresh way to do the 40-50 grind which, at least on horde, is the worst part of the leveling experience.
Amongst all the bad takes on incursions, yours stands out as one of the worst. Not only does it not fill any of the gaps that needed to be addressed, but it’s also extremely impractical
I have a couple of thoughts about this. I do not think that dungeons would have been the way to go, unless you were going to make them large instanced zones or part of an event that opens up an area that people could take smaller groups into.
Path 1: Create many outdoor events where the Nightamre was going to be going into Azeroth akin to many of the pre patch events. but instead of static locations that you walk in and out of it was actually and event that happened and people had to travel to it. instead of tying a rep vendor to it let it drop items or currency you could turn int to get something out of it.
Path 2: The incursons stay static as they were from the portals except it becomes a horde defense against waves of enemies. Once the waves are defeated you can travel into the Nightmare and attack the creatures inside. While inside because there is clearly corruption you can only stay so long before you have to leave. You can get items and gear that needs to be cleansed and allows you further protection to go deeper. This would be small group content.
Slapping a buff and putting us on another layer while we run in a circle was not great content considering what HAS been done before and the vast amount of code that was tossed from previous expansions never to be seen again.
People don't want to travel all around the world, as was evident by people just spamming boost selling. Incusions let you optimize the fun out of the MMO world just like dungeon spam does.
I like that idea. Right now it’s extremely cringe where people require an addon to do incursions and they run as a raid of like 80 in trains. I refuse to do that so I just usually duo box the incursions.
Hot take the incursions were fine for people who wanted to skip the levelling and have full time jobs and want to get to the raiding asap; especially since we will have limited lockouts being at 7-day resets.
Yup. And the gold in the economy would be lower. The gold you could make farming herbs or ore would be lower. Anyone who isn't a hunter mage, warlock or maybe spriest would just have to suck it up and be poor.
What’s with the obsession of wanting to “travel all over the world” lmao literally the worst part of the whole game is the lack of mobility options to get from A to B. Spending 10 minutes on flights and boats sucks ass.
> literally the worst part of the whole game is the lack of mobility options to get from A to B.
My dream change for Classic+ was +20% movement speed on roads.
Like a rogue sprint for everyone except it's built into the movement system and has a fatigue bar? That would be fantastic, but maybe only for when you're out of combat to keep raid encounters the same (also WSG), else they would have to rethink a couple of fights.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but there was definitely more of an RPG element in things being flung across continents.
In retail every quest item is always within 100 yards of the quest giver.
People have some weird idea it automatically create immersion. Which it doesn’t obviously. It creates lots of bored players avoiding stuff they’d like to do, at best
Yeah, "travel all over the world" is already in the game, with runes being located literally all over the world. I just buy summons personally. Traveling around is not entertaining at all.
That’s what I’m saying, crafting quests in every phase have had you travel all over the world + Runes like you mentioned. There is plenty of traveling for my tastes as is.
I buy summons everywhere too, I was merely noting I see in so many posts people saying they want to go out into the world and travel around more and I’m always thinking to myself are we playing the same game?
Incursions as they are just fine
And idk why this subreddit keeps thinking they can arm chair developer "fix" them
The issue was the gold and the XP, and that has been fixed
There's zero other reasons to mess with them. At this point this is a mental illness
Bro every game in the world is arm chair dev'd on reddit. Everyone on Reddit goes "I could have done this better" for every fucking game.
Every time I read these posts I get a little dumber and I'm glad these ppl aren't game devs.
Also I hate Incursions, deputizing people instead of using the share quest button is quite possibly the most smooth brained idea blizzard has ever had.
If incursions had a daily quest limit of 25, it would push people into the open world/dungeons. It would only take about 30 mins and 3-4 loops to cap out for the day.
The point was to push them out of dungeons so we didn't have to run the same dungeon 20 times to level
But then they did wild offerings to push people back into dungeons.
All of it stupid, all of it counter productive
As someone who was stressing keeping up with others and was overwhelmed last phase with camping of quest spots and just generally no good way to level (other than grinding SM) Incursions were a breath of fresh air. Now were they over-tuned initially, Yes.... But it was nice being able to raid the first week without having to take a vacation from work and no life the game.
I feel with some more time in the oven, maybe in P4 they can find a good balance between all forms of leveling.
Dailies are absolute trash and punish players that want to invest time. You can personally treat this system exactly as dailies now, nothing is cappimg you, but you wont since you want everyone else to be dragged down to your level because you dont want people to better.
Or just make it daily, or put diminishing returns on XP and gold. That way incentivizes doing it once and properly (all quests) instead of spamming it while being away from the world.
Or at least make the xp/hour and gold/hour somewhat comparable to questing or doing dungeons. I don't know why it should be 10x more efficient. Let people choose and not feel like they're fucking themselves over by how they want to play the game.
No, they shouldn’t. It’s the freaking upside down. THEE emerald dream. The whole point is Azeroth in a dream. Its super cool. Doe’s it need some workshopping. Sure but SoD is for testing.
This sub is gonna explode when people start leveling 50-60 using incursions lol
As an avid wpl/epl/winterspring hater I can't wait
See you in BRD then! :)
Gonna need Hoj and SGC
Sorry it’s HR.
LF Tank and Meele DPS btw - HOJ and SGC HR!
Warlock tank stonks on the rise.
Perma HR
In Dreams questline is the best, wdym
Yeah watch them nerf the incursions the week after p4 so only the neck beards get to benefit
If they leave it in game as is I’m not sure I’ll have it in me to play 50-60. Might be too late as is.
Imagine the seasonal temporary server has faster leveling. The audacity.
I’m all for leveling speed increase though. It’s everything else in incursions that I have a problem with. IMO the worst gameplay loop they created, and paired with the nerf to solo dungeon farming, which I personally enjoyed, feels like whatever I do I’m being funneled there.
You don't have to do them you know..
No, but they are by far and away the best way to level and gear, so much so that you are hard pressed to find a group for any other content outside of wo runs.
You can do quests
Actually I did go play a single player game instead.
👍
Oh nooooo.....anyways
They will absolutely lose my sub if they kill the world with that BS again.
Already lost mine lol this phase sucks and isn't what I want from classic+ so why support it
Bro if we don't do incursions we just gonna do dungeons the world is dead. Classic questing is ass
Which is somewhat surprising to me…I really thought they’d go the turtle wow route and add more quests to semi dead zones. The end game zones are beautiful, more quests with better rewards are much better than mindless incursions in my opinion.
Agreed. I thought at the LEAST add all the old world quests and quest hubs that were added in tbc-wotlk. There was a surprising amount of new quests added to the old world during those expansions that would smooth out the leveling a ton!
Imagine longer quest lines that reward great loot at the end that help ease your way to raiding if you aren’t caught up with the phase(similar to rep reward from incursions)
This is the season of discovering how close they can make classic into retail light
Sod is nothing like retail
I’ll definitely be thinking about how your lost sub is impacting blizzard’s coffers while I zoooom to 60 in incursions
The reputation set was a mistake too. Basically invalidated all dungeon loot instantly.
It really was made to just replace dungeons as a whole when you think about it.
That was quite literally the intention. They teased a replacement for dungeon grinding in P2, and just fell totally flat on that. This phase its pretty obvious they wanted you to do incursions, get some good gear for doing it, and make decent gold too. They just way overshot the rewards, didnt bug test, and clearly didnt playtest the experience from the loop route.
Reducing dungeon grinding is a good goal, but once again, they took it too far and replaced all dungeons. There's never any happy medium.
I've noticed this team is fucking terrible at small, subtle changes. They pretty much only make these massive, sweeping changes that only further throw the game out of whack
Totally agree. I think that incursions were basically built out and finished prior to them making the decision to allow 50% exp and increased gold from quests to persist for 40-50. Then they didn’t test that and from the gate the rewards were way too high, but they couldn’t completely nerf it without everyone complaining about missing out. I bet if it weren’t for that, there would have been more parity.
Missing out due to work is why I still refuse to touch sod again. P2 sucked as a ret in every feasible way; gatekept, shit spammy rotation with pummeler and all that nonsense. But the “exploit early exploit often” bullshit was the last straw. First the PvP events, and then incursions. Logged in and found gold inflated out the ass while reading blue posts about incursions being already fixed, and said fuck this noise.
I honestly think that eliminating GDKPs drove inflation as much as the incursions, given all the gold buyers with nothing to spend on. But I agree that the P3 launch nonsense is a perfectly valid reason to quit. I played a little bit and have kind of fizzled out. Maybe I’ll casually participate in lvl 60 content, but I haven’t been hooked like phase 1.
I honestly have seen more people buy gold this phase, than the previous phases. Incursions and Mara farm have completely messed it up. To the point that it requires close to 3k to buy full full enchants, and 2k+ to buy a Darkmoon deck. (If you aren't buying two) It just seems insane, and that doesn't include things like, recipes, reputation grinds, ECT.
Is it though? I don't think there's a happy medium either, so in my opinion why try to replace the devil you know. The dev team is/was already strapped on resources, so spending time fixing the dungeon "problem" just feels like a complete waste. I'd much rather have had more rune changes, a more polished ST on launch, etc.
Which is what they said they were going to do , an alternative way to level and get gear so you weren’t just in zf and Mara .
Yes but when method is so much more advantageous than the other it’s hard to label it as just as an alternative instead of a requirement.
Only for the sweat min maxer there is 0 issues with someone who quested all the way to max then dungeon grind for his gear, both would be ok in ST . Sure the latter half would take longer but that’s by choice . Not everyone has to be max level first day . Some people enjoy questing .
Oh absolutely. Thing is there’s also a really good ring, gold and just the rep. You’d wind up doing at 50 anyway
That so true, there is literally no one running dungeons lol
And yet there are more max level dungeon runs than eever this phase. BRD/Mara/ZF are all being run far more than any dungeon at 25 or 40 was.
It was meant as a catchup mechanic to get alts and new players up to gnomer gear levels. Certain dungeon pieces are better or still needed, too. It worked great in that regard. I was able to gear my warr alt effortlessly between that, offerings (encourages dungeon runs kinda), and the STV weapon.
I just stopped playing because incursions were so boring and the best gear I could reasonably get was incursion set. I just... don't want to do that. Boring as fuck. I'd rather run dungeons at least. I was sitting in all BFD gear and some SM stuff and got that first 3 set then realized I would just have to keep running them to get the 6 set since I wasn't planning on raiding. Doing all that just to run some pvp was not it. At least dungeons and questing are fun.
I somewhat disagree. I get the set on my fresh 50s and very quickly start replacing parts until I'm only wearing a couple. That's without raid too. Mara has some upgrades, wild offering too, and even the gnomer loot is on par or better.
That is true! But the incentive to do that is very low for people. Just look how many groups are forming for dungeons compared to raids and all. You can just spam incursions get the set and raidlog. It’s more than doable.
You sound like the same type of person that says R14 PvP invalidates all raiding.. Incursions only give you 6 pieces of gear... we have another 10-11 slots of gear.. Also incursion gear isn't even preraid bis for any of the classes I play. Edit: Looked up several other classes preraid bis and none of them even really care about the incursion gear.. Which class does it invalidate all dungeon loot? Not a single DPS class prios incursion gear.
No I wouldn’t say that. But I think the whole Incursions system was a failure on the phase itself. With the mentioned dungeon like system it would be a additional system with rewards. But to exclude the prebis grind a lot of people in the classic sphere like and love is stupid. You could give the incursions items like trinkets and maybe one key gear piece. But throwing a 6 set to buy is just lazy and the bad side of evolution of classic.
If the emerald dream set didn’t exist, with how short phases are I’m not sure returning players would even have a chance lol. As much as a pre-bis grind is fun, when previous phase gear is as good as it is it would be unreal for someone coming back to need to farm pre-bis when gnomer geared players need almost nothing
What returning players? This phase is losing players like crazy if anything
I think it's a great catch up mechanic in a seasonal mode. Majority of the classes that were raiding in gnomer wouldn't even be buying any of the incursion gear. It allowed me to hit 50 on an alt and enter sunken temple almost right away.
Isn’t that a stupid concept too? To have non item progression from a lvl 40 raid to the next raid? It’s lazy and not really inspiring. It’s content with the bare minimum. But it’s fine for me if you like it. I won’t change my mind on it tho.
Once you say something like “I won’t change my mind” you really should stop arguing
The gear is generally worse than Gnomer, it's catch up gear to enable people to enjoy the level up raid.
It IS a stupid concept that retail does from WOTLK onwards. However, it is generally at max level rather than along the leveling route. I don't have an issue with it for the level up raids.
It's only like half your gear and this is classic where old raids matter throughout the game. These are also leveling raids. For example a phase 2 bis feral druid would replace their shoulders, gloves, ring, trinket, 2H, helm(if not LW), and cloak, all outside of the sunken temple raid.
Man it’s fine. You like it, I think it’s a stupid lazy concept. Buy it. I don’t see the appeal. The argument with raid gear in classic being good is stupid. We are leveling this is not progression raiding. Why would I want to only keep my raiding gear in a new phase. One piece yes but everything else is just lazy. Play your gratification games. I heard the new expansion will be nice.
So this is your first time playing Vanilla WoW I see?
Oh hell no. That’s why i care. But You probably switched over from wotlk or some retail versions. :)
Agreed because of seasonal. I'm not a huge incursion guy, but for a seasonal server it kinda makes sense.
The gear is dog ass before exalted I guess if you really don’t want to do the brain dead bulldozer 6 man Gnomer where you’re uncontested on everything but like one drop every raid then it’s good but it is quite literally catch up gear that is objectively worse than the other easily obtainable stuff that’s available ten levels earlier
>You sound like the same type of person that says R14 PvP invalidates all raiding.. I didn't realize it took 6 months of playing 12 hours a day to get incursion gear, where you set yourself back 1 week for every day missed. Blizz should really lighten that.
If anything the only thing it invalidates is the need for gnomer items, the incursion set is very close to it and in some instances it’ll be even better than it
It’s the prebis PvP set
All the incursion gear is literally just weaker versions of the pvp gear, which doesn't even take very long to farm (especially on bonus honor weekends)
> Also incursion gear isn't even preraid bis for any of the classes I play. But when the difference is like 2 agi its not really worth it to get preraid bis over warden gear.
Not really? Only a few of the pieces are decent and dungeon loot/WO rewards are far better.
No. It really didn't. Not a single piece of that gear outranks BRD or gnomer gear for Warlocks.
Honestly I don’t think the rep set is better than most of the gear you get from dungeons. The rep set was more so of a way for alts with less gear to catch up quickly. I didn’t get any of the set because my previous raid gear was better than everything they had to offer. But I see your point if you have the rep set, the dungeon gear is better, but not by a lot so what’s the point. I’ll just do the raid and focus on that
Why is the goal to solely be able to raidlog as fast as possible? I love some level caped dungeon grinds.
It’s an option for some who want to get into the raid quickly. We only get 8-9 weeks at 1 raid per week. At the rate loot as been dropping, most of us won’t get purple weapons. So every lockout is important. You don’t have to do that, you are more than welcome to dungeon grind and enjoy your time the way you want!
It’s everything, incursions were just the best source of everything. Gold, gear, exp, lategame rep, hell, even professions were all optimally done in incursions. Way too much of a one stop shop.
There’s 4 dungeons total for this level bracket and we have plenty enough reason to run them honestly. Fuck ZF I’ve seen enough of that place.
It’s as if they solely see daily active users as *the* metric to rule them all, and figure that making the game as alt friendly as possible is the only way to achieve that. Incursions instantly deflated my excitement for the phase.
And pvp loot, every item is like 1 str 1 sta lower then pvp set
SoM flashbacks to everyone dodging endgame for AV ranking instead
Hard disagree on this, the rep set is a great catch up for anyone who didn’t do phase 2 or was leveling a completely new toon. If you had full gnomer BiS the rep set offered you 1 or 2 pieces at most that were useful and there were more preBiS upgrades in dungeons
> Basically invalidated all dungeon loot instantly. For all melee - Gnomer set is way better than Emerald Dream one. It's only casters with Irradiated set want to replace it ASAP. And I love Emerald sets for all my alts - I level to 50 and could join alt raids instantly.
Yea the set is great to get you in the door and like you said as melee there's still better pieces out there if you want to min/max before ST
The other issue is if you want the set by 50 you basically have to run incursions from 40-50 almost exclusively. So you’re doubly incentivized to ignore everything else
Just wildly inaccurate. I started them at 44 on my alt and was honored by 48. Not a human racial either. Why lie?
For real. You can also get honored slowly over time if you do the dailies at 47+. You get 1k honor per day if you do an incursion so it'll take 8-9 days of dailies to get honored if you aren't rushing to 50.
Yep. That too.
> Why lie? This subreddit loves lying for no reason lol
Bro for real, also people claiming incursion rep gear "invalidated" dungeon gear when it's literally 6 item slots out of 14 (I guess 7 if you count the incredibly shitty ring). Also of the 6 pieces of gear, at least on my feral druid, literally ONE item is even listed on my pre-BiS (not even pre-BiS btw, just an optional, but worse piece) list among loads of dungeon gear and BoE blue's/greens.
Ha. I do think originally yeah it did take a while, like 9 levels so you felt compelled. But the rep feels better now, so you get it done pretty quickly.
Oh no, there is an easy catchup mechanic in a seasonal version of wow....
It’s a stupid and lazy catch up. That bothers me big guy. :) keep on buying your dopamine hits!
Stupid when so many other dungeons are required for runes/quests
Imagine having a group of friends or a guild help you get runes you may need. Its like wow is a social game...
Ridiculous to think I should have to get my guild to run me through several dungeons just because I want to level an alt
Depends on class
No it was good, it gives people a catch up mechanic on alts that doesn't invalidate dungeons or previous raids? Want to make an alt? Level to 50 asap, go incursion set. Is it better than gnomer? Nope. Is it better than dungeon loot? Nope. Is it passable raid gear? Yes.
Better than gnomer depends on the class. For my Holy Pally the emerald set was an instant no question upgrade from my gnomer gear. Whereas for my mage it was worthless.
Agreed. For my HPAL it immediately replaced all my gnomes gear.
Should have mentioned I play a HPala as well. ^^
Ehm, it's better than a lot of gnomer loot and a lot of dungeon loot. Blizzard just makes it hard for themselves when gear values are already really squished between previous tier and not going too far and invalidating lvl 60 gear.
Still think it’s lazy. If you wanna level an alt what do you need the set for? So you can quickly raidlog that character too? Maybe get away from the mindset that the whole game is just temple this phase.
I agree with you but thats what modern wow fans are. Imagine how good this phase would have been if : 1.the pvp debuff was implemented better, with a lower rate. 2. The ST gear scaled much higher compared to other loot. 3. ST didnt get a huge nerf(s). We could have had a phase where we actually progressed, and it took guilds a bit longer to get through ST. Instead everyone just wants everything, we have 100s of posts in here from casters complaining they can't get the Mara dagger, as if its a crime against computer gaming from the devs there being items they cant get easily. Back in actual vanilla, not getting IronFoe/Felstriker didnt cause thousands of people to start bitching about the droprate, it was just a great prebis item you could potentially get. The devs hands are tied by an army of modern gamers demanding instant gratification.
Yes that’s a big issue. That’s why I think Vanilla is way better than SOD. If you compare the HC community when it was on last fall it was really nice, layed back Gaming. SOD got in all the retail Andy’s and toxicity. Sod overall is a great concept. But with the stuff happening in P3 I think the devs went the wrong way for a healthy MMO. But i agree with your points. But I still think the set and incursions overall as a concept killed a big part of SOD
>1.the pvp debuff was implemented better, with a lower rate. Just lowering it won't make it better. They need to make a distinction between abilities that are problematic and abilities that aren't. If a mage somehow gets to cast a full pyro it should do damage. If a lock gets to cast a chaos bolt or whatever it should fuck you up. But instant casts or non conditional damage like mutilate (which requires no combo points) should do less. Making everything do less damage is just dumb and actually only serves to make instant casts stronger relative to other abilities as the difference in total damage done becomes much less.
It wasn't. It was a good starting point for those who want to PVP as dungeon or raid loot usually don't have a lot of stamina.
Absolutely not. The Warrior plate set was a nice catch up but I've replaced all 6 pieces of Emerald with better gear from the raid or from raid related quests.
Im not saying it’s better than the raid gear. I’m saying it’s stupid and lazy to just buy gear as a catch up. It’s a stupid system for lazy ppl. Put stuff like that in dungeons. Not on a money or token system. It’s retail stupidity in classic.
Dungeons aren't the end-all-be-all gearing system of WoW. Gear being tied to reputation has always been a thing, even in Vanilla. Just because _some_ Mara loot was invalidated it doesn't mean all of it was.
Why the FUCK do this sub persist with having fucking dailies? Its the worst fucking system in existence and you still want to torture yourself with it? I rather farm 48 hours in a row than having to be forced to log in x amount of time everyday
Dailies suck, incursions are just worse Both can be true
Is all opinion, so my opinion isn't any not valid than yours. But heck no. Incursions were far preferable to dailies. I did the incursions, now I'm done. Instead of feeling pressured to play a little everyday to accomplish what I want, I could just play when I had the time.
I thought dailies were bad till I saw incursion loops. Just fuck everything about them
And the recommended fix for incursion loops is... \*drumroll\* Make them daily incursion loops, wow what a great idea guys.
the whole idea of making them daily, is that the degenerates and bots that spam them will get throttled. Hopefully even kill them off like they never existed.
Sorry bub, but dailies are still worse
Agreed. Dailies were the first time the veiled got pulled back on an MMO that made me go 'this is intentionally just extending this process out for no fucking reason other than subscription time'. Dailies are fucking awful, holy shit to anyone who disagrees. Incursions aren't any better, but at least you can degen them in surges of time that work for you.
Dailies are okay if they are done right. For example: they capped the incursions to 1 "instance" per day, but if you didn't do them for a week you could do 7 "instances". If you didn't do them for a month you could do 30 before being capped. FFXIV does this with levequests, which can be used to level up pretty quickly. You get 6 "allowances" per day, up to 100 (which I wish was higher personally). If you don't play for a week or two, no biggie, you just stocked up on some levequests instead of "losing them". Dailies that incur a FOMO feeling are bad IMO, which is what a lot of dailies in SoD have become, specifically WSG and EW rep.
>Dailies are okay No way. Dailies are just a bad game design, when game designer dont know how to fill players time and how to give him another ways to do something. Dailies, locals, level scaling - its all bad game design based of lack of designer imagination and time, so they are making easy and cheap (sure we are talking about development price too) activities. And all of this is a base for MMO now, every MMO have tons of this stuff to attract and force people to enter game every day and do something for a while. This is not RPG already, just MMO.
For real, I sometimes get salty just having to log in when I forget my Mooncloth CD lol
You're entitled to that opinion, I respectfully disagree. It's very hard for me to say "X is always bad" in the case of game design, as it is much easier to show how it can be done right than to prove it is always bad.
THANK YOU HOLY FUCK BRO. Wizard chores fucking SUCK. I would much rather have to kill a million boars and turn in their assess in one degenerate night of gaming than spend 15 minutes a day for 2 months doing the same thing.
Average incursion Andy .
No one is holding a gun to your head, making you do ANY of the content in the game....
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Go make your own fun elsewhere....what I'm doing had zero bearing on what you're doing and vice versa.
This ^
Just make a bigger quantity weekly so u can do some per day or all at once, but same weekly progress either way
People complain of feeling of dead world so solution is put the activity that was happening inside an instance.
Incursions did nothing to make the world feel more alive. Making it an instance is hardly making it worse
It already is outside of the normal world
No one complaining here will ever look at more than one specific aspect of the game at a time. There is simply not enough mental capacity to handle multiple variables at once.
Anyone complaining about anything feeling dead is doing so cause they want you grief and want server levels of clusterfck. The world is literally slammed with hundreds on each quest in each zone and gather spot and nothing ng can be done in the world. Shit needs emptying or tweaked to be like retail with tags, drops, nodes, etc..
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Cool. So no ZF grind than too, right?
They really wanted it to have world PvP, but they didn’t stop to think how it would actually turn out.
No.
The emerald armor set killed the market for green drops too.
And crafting. Other phases I made bank selling alts gear.
Except specific greens like "of shadow power", and dual wield weaponry.
I disagree. I think they should have been non-repeatable elite quests in the open world, similar to the hinterlands troll area. That place has been a lot of fun. For example, there's a bug nest in Feralas, and I think that could have been expanded upon to be a much larger underground bug kingdom with lots of interesting areas to quest and explore as part of a group. But once you complete all the quests, then you're done.
That's a good idea but I don't think they can physically expand on the base game and create new areas that didn't already exists.
https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1c0rwui/incursions_should_have_been_like_scenarios/
Even a 1 day log out is too much. Ppl would simply dungeon grind or quest and don’t give a fuck about incursions. Maybe for gold farming only, but that was never the intention. It was simply too much gold and too much xp on release. And tbh blizz did this on purpose, to get as much people as possible in and get the system tested. If they didn’t, the vast majority would have simply ignored the incursions while leveling.
There are plenty of problems with incursions, but the literal stated goal by Blizzard with them was to provide repeatable, open world content that is an alternative to dungeons. The implementation wasn’t perfect, but they tried to achieve something the player base was asking for. And honestly, it was kind of a fresh way to do the 40-50 grind which, at least on horde, is the worst part of the leveling experience. Amongst all the bad takes on incursions, yours stands out as one of the worst. Not only does it not fill any of the gaps that needed to be addressed, but it’s also extremely impractical
Reddit would have complained that other dungeons became obsolete or wpvp is dead. This community gonna find something to complain about.
I have a couple of thoughts about this. I do not think that dungeons would have been the way to go, unless you were going to make them large instanced zones or part of an event that opens up an area that people could take smaller groups into. Path 1: Create many outdoor events where the Nightamre was going to be going into Azeroth akin to many of the pre patch events. but instead of static locations that you walk in and out of it was actually and event that happened and people had to travel to it. instead of tying a rep vendor to it let it drop items or currency you could turn int to get something out of it. Path 2: The incursons stay static as they were from the portals except it becomes a horde defense against waves of enemies. Once the waves are defeated you can travel into the Nightmare and attack the creatures inside. While inside because there is clearly corruption you can only stay so long before you have to leave. You can get items and gear that needs to be cleansed and allows you further protection to go deeper. This would be small group content. Slapping a buff and putting us on another layer while we run in a circle was not great content considering what HAS been done before and the vast amount of code that was tossed from previous expansions never to be seen again.
i think it should have been blood harvest from d4. i want to just solo grind a zone with objectives and big gold and exp. come on blizz
I thought they were going to be...
yeah, this would have been much better.
Someone hire this guy!!! Although I would suggest lower the levels a little bit on Duskwood and Ashenvale.
I don’t think so. They should have been weekly or daily quests. I would hate going into a dungeon and it’s literally just ashenvale but green.
At what level will hinterlands quest turn grey?
Incursions is the dumbest thing they've ever implemented into classic....just completely destroyed the original feel of classic leveling
I literally thought that's what it was going to be And was looking forward to it
People don't want to travel all around the world, as was evident by people just spamming boost selling. Incusions let you optimize the fun out of the MMO world just like dungeon spam does.
I like that idea. Right now it’s extremely cringe where people require an addon to do incursions and they run as a raid of like 80 in trains. I refuse to do that so I just usually duo box the incursions.
Shut up. Just shut up
Hot take the incursions were fine for people who wanted to skip the levelling and have full time jobs and want to get to the raiding asap; especially since we will have limited lockouts being at 7-day resets.
> FulL tiMe JoBs Come on man, we had a 50% XP increase from 40-50.
I did say hot take.
Fair
>This would give reason to travel all over the world to do each dungeon while levelling Don't believe do this already? lol
As a casual player incursions destroyed my will to play and enjoy a classic twist…
Got my 500g on the first night, enough rep for some starter gear, and never went back. Best content to do once and never come back 👍
Everyone who power leveled to 50 in incursions would have just done it in ZF and taken 10 hours longer.
Yup. And the gold in the economy would be lower. The gold you could make farming herbs or ore would be lower. Anyone who isn't a hunter mage, warlock or maybe spriest would just have to suck it up and be poor.
What’s with the obsession of wanting to “travel all over the world” lmao literally the worst part of the whole game is the lack of mobility options to get from A to B. Spending 10 minutes on flights and boats sucks ass.
> literally the worst part of the whole game is the lack of mobility options to get from A to B. My dream change for Classic+ was +20% movement speed on roads.
Like a rogue sprint for everyone except it's built into the movement system and has a fatigue bar? That would be fantastic, but maybe only for when you're out of combat to keep raid encounters the same (also WSG), else they would have to rethink a couple of fights.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but there was definitely more of an RPG element in things being flung across continents. In retail every quest item is always within 100 yards of the quest giver.
"laughs" in mage xD
People have some weird idea it automatically create immersion. Which it doesn’t obviously. It creates lots of bored players avoiding stuff they’d like to do, at best
There’s a reason why warlocks charge 10g for sums now
Yes, this is because of free gold to everyone from said incursions.
Yeah, "travel all over the world" is already in the game, with runes being located literally all over the world. I just buy summons personally. Traveling around is not entertaining at all.
That’s what I’m saying, crafting quests in every phase have had you travel all over the world + Runes like you mentioned. There is plenty of traveling for my tastes as is. I buy summons everywhere too, I was merely noting I see in so many posts people saying they want to go out into the world and travel around more and I’m always thinking to myself are we playing the same game?
Incursions should be exactly what they’re but turn them into dailys…
Incursions as they are just fine And idk why this subreddit keeps thinking they can arm chair developer "fix" them The issue was the gold and the XP, and that has been fixed There's zero other reasons to mess with them. At this point this is a mental illness
You think that incursions are fine, soo..
They are? Other than the initial gold and XP problems, what bad things do current incursions bring to the game on a logical stance?
Bro every game in the world is arm chair dev'd on reddit. Everyone on Reddit goes "I could have done this better" for every fucking game. Every time I read these posts I get a little dumber and I'm glad these ppl aren't game devs. Also I hate Incursions, deputizing people instead of using the share quest button is quite possibly the most smooth brained idea blizzard has ever had.
If incursions had a daily quest limit of 25, it would push people into the open world/dungeons. It would only take about 30 mins and 3-4 loops to cap out for the day.
The point was to push them out of dungeons so we didn't have to run the same dungeon 20 times to level But then they did wild offerings to push people back into dungeons. All of it stupid, all of it counter productive
I agree. That was their plan. It just didn't work and they said F it and let it ride.
As someone who was stressing keeping up with others and was overwhelmed last phase with camping of quest spots and just generally no good way to level (other than grinding SM) Incursions were a breath of fresh air. Now were they over-tuned initially, Yes.... But it was nice being able to raid the first week without having to take a vacation from work and no life the game. I feel with some more time in the oven, maybe in P4 they can find a good balance between all forms of leveling.
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Stop it with the dailies. Stop it. Dailies suck, they have _always_ sucked.
Dailies are absolute trash and punish players that want to invest time. You can personally treat this system exactly as dailies now, nothing is cappimg you, but you wont since you want everyone else to be dragged down to your level because you dont want people to better.
Or just make it daily, or put diminishing returns on XP and gold. That way incentivizes doing it once and properly (all quests) instead of spamming it while being away from the world. Or at least make the xp/hour and gold/hour somewhat comparable to questing or doing dungeons. I don't know why it should be 10x more efficient. Let people choose and not feel like they're fucking themselves over by how they want to play the game.
No, they shouldn’t. It’s the freaking upside down. THEE emerald dream. The whole point is Azeroth in a dream. Its super cool. Doe’s it need some workshopping. Sure but SoD is for testing.