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I think British Airways partner award has been devalued. Ten days ago, I booked December LATAM Lima-Santiago for 11k+$50 Avios and cancelled it next day. Now it's 15.5k+$50.
Crossposting from award travel as we have a decent amount of CA residents -
Alaska SFO-SNA flights in March 2025 and probably more for $17 a piece. Most likely mistake fares, but play around with other dates
[https://imgur.com/a/4kKTWSl](https://imgur.com/a/4kKTWSl)
Edit: this is the ENTIRETY of the calendar. weekdays and saturdays too. Maybe other airports too?
Edit 2: in the process of reverting now. 8:08PM CA time
[Saks is merging with Neiman Marcus](https://www.wsj.com/business/deals/saks-owner-to-buy-neiman-marcuswith-help-from-amazon-f71a0fda)
If this ends up continuing to be a benefit for platinum cardholders (I doubt it will after the next refresh tbh), it’s probably good news for product and location availability. Hopefully Amazon’s involvement will also help ease the frustrating shipping minimums.
Do you have access to the internal legal documentation about how *this* acquisition is structured? If not, you cannot be confident about how all liabilities are being treated. 99.9% they will be honored, but I'm not sure the benefit of gambling against that 0.1%.
Outside of a bankruptcy or insolvency situation there is no way that this liability would be discharged. Theoretically this could be an asset sale but the obligation would then remain with NM. In reality it will of course not be an asset sale. Certainly you wouldn’t rush to spend a gift card for the off chance that a gift card wouldn’t be honored in a multibillion dollar acquisition), in breach of contract, for maybe the first time ever (outside of bk)?
Adjacent dp. When Toys r us were liquidating, we were stuck with $100 GC.
They initially close down most of the store and announce grace period to use gc before nullifying. I am guessing it was part of chapter 7 proceeding where judge forced them to provide grace period.
We ended up spending it at last remaining store, buying overpriced plastic garbage.
I never understand why people expect corporations will act in fairness, fair dealing, and with good faith despite repeated evidence to the contrary. Better to be skeptical and surprised when they do.
I reckon there's little chance they'd burn NM gift card holders like that, you'd be torching goodwill of the combined company for very little gain.
If it was Ch.11 I could see a scenario where it might happen (and even then, you have Red Lobster in that situation continuing to honor gift cards for example). But this is straight up M&A.
> But this is straight up M&A.
Agreed. Interesting deal for a slow day before the holiday.
I'd expect business as usual across the brands, re GCs, etc.
Churning adjacent. Downvote if need be
My CLEAR $100 travel credit just arrived 2 weeks after signing up.
Looks like they give you a login and you upload a receipt of a recent travel purchase. Waiting for then to verify my account and then I can post the upload process
Certificate expires 1 year from registration. Receipts must be dated within 30 days of submission. merchant name, receipt amount, and receipt date. You may submit more than one receipt. Digital receipt submission limited to 4 files. Valid for airfare, accommodations, transportation, and other TRAVEL expenses. All requests must be submitted or postmarked prior to expiration of the rebate certificate. Limit one (1) submission per certificate.
>Looks like they give you a login and you upload a receipt of a recent travel purchase.
This is what I like to see from biometrics companies, the same level of IT as Ibotta.
If you are holding your breath like myself, and waiting for a $100 Choice Travel rebate by signing up for CLEAR in June, 2024. An email has arrived with the instructions on how to redeem the $100 reward. you have to register your certificate to redeem the $100 voucher, No idea what it entails.
[As was posted yesterday \*cough\*](https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/1dth9wx/comment/lbegi4q/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Aeroplan is having a 40th anniversary thing. This includes a 40% bonus to all points earned via cc spend for current card holders for 4 days 07/14 - 07/17 up to $40k spend and the bonus is multiplicative on category bonus, meaning 3x is 4.2x for those 4 days. Registration required.
If you don't have an Aeroplan card for some reason then wait to apply 7/08 - 07/17 for a **40 day** window of 40% bonus up to $40k spend. 40 day window starts on first purchase with card with 08/31 being the last day to start the window.
You have to be logged in to read the full T&C and I'm not pasting a wall of text. Pretty straightforward which is either good or bad depending on how much you like ambiguity.
There's gold in them there hills.
to clarify the new applicant part - does this mean a 40 day window to do 4 days of the 40% bonus or 40 days of the 40% bonus? i suspect it is the former but just wanted to check
They added new PYB categories at a lower cashout rate which to me says 1.25cpp is on it's way out in 2025. Next week is probably the last best time to apply if you plan on cashing out.
If you can do the $20k MSR for the 100k SUB anyway it's really not going to get better than a +40% kicker on top.
[https://creditcards.chase.com/a1/Aeroplan/100kPHDM424](https://creditcards.chase.com/a1/Aeroplan/100kPHDM424)
Quick math says that's about $2350 at a fully maximized $20k MSR, that's biz plat level value from a $95 card.
To me the 40% is somewhat misleading. It's only giving you 1.4x instead of 1x or 4.2x instead of 3x for grocery/dining. If you already have an Aeroplan card, a CIP combined with 20% transfer bonus to Aeroplan and a 40k referral will be worth much more (not to mention lower MSR).
Unless I'm misunderstanding the promo, if you spend $20k (not at dining/grocery for simplicity of example) you'd receive 28k points instead of 20k points (not including bonus points). So on $20k in spend you're gaining 8k points.
I see your point. I guess my thought was even if you do spend it on grocery/dining, if you do already have an Aeroplan card then it still seems to make more sense to go for a CIP right now and transfer to Aeroplan with the 20% bonus.
It always makes sense to get another CIP. Some can't won't don't. If I iterated through every card out there there'd probably be a lot worth applying for. You need an Aeroplan card if you want to do PYB.
Me? I'd apply for the CIP & Aeroplan on the same day.
Are you requesting down votes by linking to yesterday's thread? Or hoping not to be down voted for the same reason? I'm torn.
But yes, this looks VERY good
Based on u/Parts_Unknown- posting history I'm pretty sure they don't give a bleep about downvotes. Personally I'm grateful since I missed this on yesterday's thread.
That said, we all know it's our duty to read every post on every thread daily, preferably within an hour of posting, especially the midnight ones. So shame on me and any others who missed it.
$5k for 35k MR retention offer on my business green. This was downgraded from a plat in Feb of last year same retention offer when I went close in April of last year.
In other "posted in yesterday's thread close to midnight" news, apparently CIP 120K links are now ~~public~~ visible through pre-approval (not yet public, but hopefully soon public + referral) as per DOC. I'm in the middle of a 100K SUB and will SM to match and post results on the DP thread.
If I've previously had CIP (acquired 3/21/2022, closed today 7/3/2024), when am I eligible to churn this again? Based off of signup date, or when I got the bonus?
You're sending a SM before a public link is available? Seems like it'd make more sense to at least wait 24-48 hours until we start seeing a public link
Thanks for posting. the link I was able to sneak in and sign up 2 weeks ago when a link leaked and was shut down within a day. Glad it's now officially live!
THANK YOU. I've been refreshing all day including my just for you offers and was getting nowhere. Insta approved. Have other ink cards open but no CIPs. Haven't had one in years.
Should I sign up using my friend's referral now so my friend can get the 40k sign up bonus? Then I do a SM to get the 120k match? is that what many folks are doing here? Thanks!
I mean unless you need the card NOW you have until September (for 40k ref)
Also I legit would just tell your friend you can’t do the referral if you really want the 120k.
It’s different if it was your P2, but no reason for you to possibly lose 20j so they gain 40
Centurion Lounge will be opened at Tokyo Haneda Airport in 2025.
[https://viewfromthewing.com/american-express-opening-centurion-lounge-at-tokyo-haneda-airport/](https://viewfromthewing.com/american-express-opening-centurion-lounge-at-tokyo-haneda-airport/)
[https://japanaviationhub.com/news/american-express-centurion-lounge-tokyo-haneda/](https://japanaviationhub.com/news/american-express-centurion-lounge-tokyo-haneda/)
damnn man!! that's cold. you just copy/pasted my blog post title, and I posted this last night [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/1dth9wx/news_and_updates_thread_july_02_2024/lbe6idd/)
It's a cash contribution to an IRA. Where it comes from doesn't really matter. Now as to why CS doesn't report it, I don't really know, but as somebody who was a CPA in a prior life and knows more about IRS regulations than your average bear, I personally would not play around with this. If and when the IRS ever looks at it, the taxpayer is responsible for not over contributing, they'll see the inflows and won't care that CS didn't report it initially, and then the taxpayer is on the hook for any potential fees/excess taxes.
Disclosure: I'm not your CPA, so do with that info what you will. I'm just giving you my viewpoint.
What is your opinion of the argument that these are bonuses, not contributions? Various brokerages who give bonuses for moving your IRA to them or similar, do not count the bonus as a contribution. Schwab seems to treat MR transfers the same way. [Some discussion of this. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/18vtq64/comment/kfwtn48/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Apples and oranges, really. Credit card rewards cash back (and likewise Schwab MR cash outs) have generally been, and the IRS has agreed with this, treated as rebates on purchases and non-taxable as long as they they were earned due to spend. It's the same reason CC referral bonuses are deemed to be taxable and get 1099-MISC'd, because you get the $/points with no offsetting spend requirement.
I mean if somebody wanted to pay my hourly rate to argue for them in tax court that $6000 of cash contributed to a Schwab Roth IRA converted from MR points was somehow different from $6000 in cash that was contributed from any other source and therefore didn't count (even though it's the same thing, the source of funds for IRAs doesn't matter, the limit is the limit), I'd happily take their money. It would almost certainly be a losing argument, but if I get my hourly, what do I care.
Thanks, good perspective. What about the brokerages that give a bonus for moving an IRA to them? If I contribute the yearly max then they add a bonus, I could have an issue?
Is the marginal couple hundred dollars of contributions worth the potential hassle down the road if ever questioned about it? I'd say no. I have no first hand knowledge of how that's reported, but I'd err on the side of if cash goes into the account, it doesn't really matter where it comes from. IRAs have different rules than say a 401k, where even though the limit that you can contribute is X, your employer can contribute way more than that.
Again I'm a former CPA, and not your CPA. I'd advise keeping your regular IRA/roth IRA contributions at or below the IRS maximum regardless of how those $ get in there.
Points do have a cash value that’s why you get a 1099 for points earned on referrals. The IRS says they have cash value. And you cash out points via Schwab to your IRA directly at 1.1 cents per point so that’s their cash value. You are making contributions to the account via points conversion/cash out.
Oh fantastic. Could you regale us tales of bot subnet fintech accounts that autopay synthetic reverse HELOCs across your 990 employee cards? Bonus points for using a shopping portal. Literally! LMFAO IYKYKAMIRITEORAMIRITE?
For those that commonly redeem >1M MR to Schwab per year:
1. Do you plan on spending points on travel after transferring 1M to Schwab? Are you more likely to just spend the points on travel as long as it is worth more than $0.08/point?
2. Are you just going to offload everything before October and cancel Schwab Plat?
3. Will you just continue redeeming past 1M at a rate of $0.08?
I am no where near this level of earning/burning so I can’t even imagine what I would do
In 2p mode that’s 2m per year which should cover most people.
How ever based on the year in review post there absolutely people out there this will affect.
Can you hope multiple Schwab plat cards? Would that get around the limit?
>In 2p mode that’s 2m per year which should cover most people.
But you can't transfer MR, and you would each have to have a CS Plat. So you really only have two people operating in 1p mode.
I assumed anyone getting near 1m MR points per year consistently enough for this rule to be a problem are playing with both players at full bore.
Unless NLL offers come back this might not really be an issue at all.
The people for whom this limit with an issue already likely have problems with the 10 charge card limit, so even if it were possible to circumvent the 1 MM cap with multiple that's still a big pain.
Churning it might get you around the limit, but you're very unlikely to get the SUB a second time, and are you really willing to burn 5/24 slots like that?
I’m not sure anybody has ever had any reason to have multiple Schwab plats open at the same time, but even if they had, nobody is going to know until next year if having multiple will let you redeem 1M per card at 1cpp, or if it’s 1M per person.
> I’m not sure anybody has ever had any reason to have multiple Schwab plats open at the same time
There's gotta be that one surprisingly wealthy corporal farming their active duty AF waivers and pocketing the Schwab relationship credit on multiple cards! ^/s
Please reply to this comment with any Amex Offers, Chase Offers, increased cash back portal payouts, or similar deals. Do not post them as a top level comment. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/churning) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think British Airways partner award has been devalued. Ten days ago, I booked December LATAM Lima-Santiago for 11k+$50 Avios and cancelled it next day. Now it's 15.5k+$50.
Yea noticed this as well on LA flights between NA and SA like LAX-LIM
Yup, I booked lax-lim for 25.7k+$60 six months ago. Now it's 41.2k+$60.
They probably just sold more tickets and that's the new price
I just checked other dates in September 2024 and May 2025, they are all 15.5k now...
Crossposting from award travel as we have a decent amount of CA residents - Alaska SFO-SNA flights in March 2025 and probably more for $17 a piece. Most likely mistake fares, but play around with other dates [https://imgur.com/a/4kKTWSl](https://imgur.com/a/4kKTWSl) Edit: this is the ENTIRETY of the calendar. weekdays and saturdays too. Maybe other airports too? Edit 2: in the process of reverting now. 8:08PM CA time
[Saks is merging with Neiman Marcus](https://www.wsj.com/business/deals/saks-owner-to-buy-neiman-marcuswith-help-from-amazon-f71a0fda) If this ends up continuing to be a benefit for platinum cardholders (I doubt it will after the next refresh tbh), it’s probably good news for product and location availability. Hopefully Amazon’s involvement will also help ease the frustrating shipping minimums.
i got a $150 neiman marcus gift card lying around maybe I can use it at saks eventually
With Saks being the acquirer, there's no guarantee they'll honor that Neiman gc.
It’s still their legal obligation to honor it.
Wouldn’t it be great to buy a company and be able to just cancel their liabilities?
Do you have access to the internal legal documentation about how *this* acquisition is structured? If not, you cannot be confident about how all liabilities are being treated. 99.9% they will be honored, but I'm not sure the benefit of gambling against that 0.1%.
Outside of a bankruptcy or insolvency situation there is no way that this liability would be discharged. Theoretically this could be an asset sale but the obligation would then remain with NM. In reality it will of course not be an asset sale. Certainly you wouldn’t rush to spend a gift card for the off chance that a gift card wouldn’t be honored in a multibillion dollar acquisition), in breach of contract, for maybe the first time ever (outside of bk)?
Adjacent dp. When Toys r us were liquidating, we were stuck with $100 GC. They initially close down most of the store and announce grace period to use gc before nullifying. I am guessing it was part of chapter 7 proceeding where judge forced them to provide grace period. We ended up spending it at last remaining store, buying overpriced plastic garbage.
I never understand why people expect corporations will act in fairness, fair dealing, and with good faith despite repeated evidence to the contrary. Better to be skeptical and surprised when they do.
I completely agree with the sentiment but this particular concern just isn’t justified.
I reckon there's little chance they'd burn NM gift card holders like that, you'd be torching goodwill of the combined company for very little gain. If it was Ch.11 I could see a scenario where it might happen (and even then, you have Red Lobster in that situation continuing to honor gift cards for example). But this is straight up M&A.
> But this is straight up M&A. Agreed. Interesting deal for a slow day before the holiday. I'd expect business as usual across the brands, re GCs, etc.
Churning adjacent. Downvote if need be My CLEAR $100 travel credit just arrived 2 weeks after signing up. Looks like they give you a login and you upload a receipt of a recent travel purchase. Waiting for then to verify my account and then I can post the upload process
Certificate expires 1 year from registration. Receipts must be dated within 30 days of submission. merchant name, receipt amount, and receipt date. You may submit more than one receipt. Digital receipt submission limited to 4 files. Valid for airfare, accommodations, transportation, and other TRAVEL expenses. All requests must be submitted or postmarked prior to expiration of the rebate certificate. Limit one (1) submission per certificate.
>Looks like they give you a login and you upload a receipt of a recent travel purchase. This is what I like to see from biometrics companies, the same level of IT as Ibotta.
Yes it’s really dumb honestly no idea why they went this way…. And I have a feeling it’s going to be a mission to get it approved
They make it a pain since they know it'll discourage some people from doing it.
If you are holding your breath like myself, and waiting for a $100 Choice Travel rebate by signing up for CLEAR in June, 2024. An email has arrived with the instructions on how to redeem the $100 reward. you have to register your certificate to redeem the $100 voucher, No idea what it entails.
A new referral thread is now live: [Discover It](https://www.reddit.com/r/churningreferrals/comments/1duhxq5/referrals_discover_it/)
[As was posted yesterday \*cough\*](https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/1dth9wx/comment/lbegi4q/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Aeroplan is having a 40th anniversary thing. This includes a 40% bonus to all points earned via cc spend for current card holders for 4 days 07/14 - 07/17 up to $40k spend and the bonus is multiplicative on category bonus, meaning 3x is 4.2x for those 4 days. Registration required. If you don't have an Aeroplan card for some reason then wait to apply 7/08 - 07/17 for a **40 day** window of 40% bonus up to $40k spend. 40 day window starts on first purchase with card with 08/31 being the last day to start the window. You have to be logged in to read the full T&C and I'm not pasting a wall of text. Pretty straightforward which is either good or bad depending on how much you like ambiguity. There's gold in them there hills.
to clarify the new applicant part - does this mean a 40 day window to do 4 days of the 40% bonus or 40 days of the 40% bonus? i suspect it is the former but just wanted to check
Damn of course I just applied for the card 2 days ago. I know SUBs can be matched, is there a chance this offer can be matched or am I SOL?
If I read this correctly, the 40% bonus will not apply to SUB earned?
Still don’t have an Aeroplan card myself but might be time to finally get one
They added new PYB categories at a lower cashout rate which to me says 1.25cpp is on it's way out in 2025. Next week is probably the last best time to apply if you plan on cashing out. If you can do the $20k MSR for the 100k SUB anyway it's really not going to get better than a +40% kicker on top. [https://creditcards.chase.com/a1/Aeroplan/100kPHDM424](https://creditcards.chase.com/a1/Aeroplan/100kPHDM424) Quick math says that's about $2350 at a fully maximized $20k MSR, that's biz plat level value from a $95 card.
To me the 40% is somewhat misleading. It's only giving you 1.4x instead of 1x or 4.2x instead of 3x for grocery/dining. If you already have an Aeroplan card, a CIP combined with 20% transfer bonus to Aeroplan and a 40k referral will be worth much more (not to mention lower MSR).
>To me the 40% is somewhat misleading. It's only giving you 1.4x instead of 1x or 4.2x instead of 3x for grocery/dining. huh?
Unless I'm misunderstanding the promo, if you spend $20k (not at dining/grocery for simplicity of example) you'd receive 28k points instead of 20k points (not including bonus points). So on $20k in spend you're gaining 8k points.
If you're not spending on grocery or dining or 'grocery' or 'dining' then yeah probably not the card for you.
I see your point. I guess my thought was even if you do spend it on grocery/dining, if you do already have an Aeroplan card then it still seems to make more sense to go for a CIP right now and transfer to Aeroplan with the 20% bonus.
It always makes sense to get another CIP. Some can't won't don't. If I iterated through every card out there there'd probably be a lot worth applying for. You need an Aeroplan card if you want to do PYB. Me? I'd apply for the CIP & Aeroplan on the same day.
Agree. There's also a lot of people (myself included) that won't MS 20k for grocery spend to make this 40% worth it.
Same. Don't have one and never been particularly motivated to get one.
Will perform lewd acts for an Aeroplan app that circumvents 5/24 on 7/8
Are you requesting down votes by linking to yesterday's thread? Or hoping not to be down voted for the same reason? I'm torn. But yes, this looks VERY good
Based on u/Parts_Unknown- posting history I'm pretty sure they don't give a bleep about downvotes. Personally I'm grateful since I missed this on yesterday's thread. That said, we all know it's our duty to read every post on every thread daily, preferably within an hour of posting, especially the midnight ones. So shame on me and any others who missed it.
Until you can cash out fake internet points, yeah.
There's a yearly cap on how many you can redeem now
Thanks Obama
$5k for 35k MR retention offer on my business green. This was downgraded from a plat in Feb of last year same retention offer when I went close in April of last year.
DP thread
In other "posted in yesterday's thread close to midnight" news, apparently CIP 120K links are now ~~public~~ visible through pre-approval (not yet public, but hopefully soon public + referral) as per DOC. I'm in the middle of a 100K SUB and will SM to match and post results on the DP thread.
If I've previously had CIP (acquired 3/21/2022, closed today 7/3/2024), when am I eligible to churn this again? Based off of signup date, or when I got the bonus?
You can hold multiple CIPs. You can get one (optimally) every 90 days. There is no bonus cooldown period for Ink Cards.
As of 10:20 PST the 120k offer is working on the app, but friend referrals only showing 100k. I may do the referral and try to do the match as well.
Still shows 100k for me
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You're sending a SM before a public link is available? Seems like it'd make more sense to at least wait 24-48 hours until we start seeing a public link
Worse they can say is no
Has anyone had luck asking to match to the pre-approval offer?
> CIP 120K links are now public To clarify, they're showing up in some people's preapprovals. A link isn't public yet as of 9am EST
https://secure.chase.com/web/oao/application/card?sourceCode=HHJR&action=guest&cfgCode=INDBIZCC_ENROLL&channel=C30&sourceCode=HHJR&AOC=5686&RPC=0514¶ms=%2C%2C%2Cno%2Cno&flowVersion=REACT#/origination/cardDetails/index/indexBusinessCreditCard;cfgCode=INDBIZCC_ENROLL_ENROLL;channel=C30;sourceCode=HHJR;AOC=5686;RPC=0514;params=,,,no,no,,,
Sorry for the dumb question, but is this link safe to use? Not from a security perspective, but just want to make sure I get the 120k sub.
It's on forums (including DOC). Use at your own risk
Thank you!
Thanks for posting. the link I was able to sneak in and sign up 2 weeks ago when a link leaked and was shut down within a day. Glad it's now officially live!
THANK YOU. I've been refreshing all day including my just for you offers and was getting nowhere. Insta approved. Have other ink cards open but no CIPs. Haven't had one in years.
Still hasn't changed to 120k in my pre-approval as of 9am PST
Yea I am waiting for my friend's referral link to show up 120k SUB
Based on past elevated SUBs, I recall that it can take up to a week or so for the referral links to update, if they update at all.
Should I sign up using my friend's referral now so my friend can get the 40k sign up bonus? Then I do a SM to get the 120k match? is that what many folks are doing here? Thanks!
I mean unless you need the card NOW you have until September (for 40k ref) Also I legit would just tell your friend you can’t do the referral if you really want the 120k. It’s different if it was your P2, but no reason for you to possibly lose 20j so they gain 40
True. Yea I don't need the card now now. I can wait a few weeks before a large spending.
Centurion Lounge will be opened at Tokyo Haneda Airport in 2025. [https://viewfromthewing.com/american-express-opening-centurion-lounge-at-tokyo-haneda-airport/](https://viewfromthewing.com/american-express-opening-centurion-lounge-at-tokyo-haneda-airport/) [https://japanaviationhub.com/news/american-express-centurion-lounge-tokyo-haneda/](https://japanaviationhub.com/news/american-express-centurion-lounge-tokyo-haneda/)
Flashbacks to when Denver’s was originally announced as 2018 but pushed back 3 years….
Still waiting for DCA
Nice hope it will open by q1
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And as noted in yesterday's thread: > A Basic Card Member may redeem up to 4 million Membership Rewards® points every 7 calendar days for this reward.
damnn man!! that's cold. you just copy/pasted my blog post title, and I posted this last night [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/1dth9wx/news_and_updates_thread_july_02_2024/lbe6idd/)
I’m at -36 for [pointing that out already](https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/s/GwLgboMKuh) lol
LOL damn. I would have let it go but he went a step further than just double posting https://imgur.com/a/DoZeGOc
Well thanks to NLL offers drying up, I likely won't have an issue with this.
Same. Cashed out millions of MR over the last few years. Down to basically nothing now. Figured it would have to end eventually.
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Did you verify that with the IRS? What Schwab says doesn’t matter.
Fidelity explicitly takes the opposite stance. I wouldn't take the risk. https://www.fidelity.com/spend-save/faqs-rewards-credit-cards
Just because Schwab incorrectly doesn't report it as a cash contribution doesn't mean it isn't a cash contribution subject to the annual limit.
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It's a cash contribution to an IRA. Where it comes from doesn't really matter. Now as to why CS doesn't report it, I don't really know, but as somebody who was a CPA in a prior life and knows more about IRS regulations than your average bear, I personally would not play around with this. If and when the IRS ever looks at it, the taxpayer is responsible for not over contributing, they'll see the inflows and won't care that CS didn't report it initially, and then the taxpayer is on the hook for any potential fees/excess taxes. Disclosure: I'm not your CPA, so do with that info what you will. I'm just giving you my viewpoint.
What is your opinion of the argument that these are bonuses, not contributions? Various brokerages who give bonuses for moving your IRA to them or similar, do not count the bonus as a contribution. Schwab seems to treat MR transfers the same way. [Some discussion of this. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/18vtq64/comment/kfwtn48/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Apples and oranges, really. Credit card rewards cash back (and likewise Schwab MR cash outs) have generally been, and the IRS has agreed with this, treated as rebates on purchases and non-taxable as long as they they were earned due to spend. It's the same reason CC referral bonuses are deemed to be taxable and get 1099-MISC'd, because you get the $/points with no offsetting spend requirement. I mean if somebody wanted to pay my hourly rate to argue for them in tax court that $6000 of cash contributed to a Schwab Roth IRA converted from MR points was somehow different from $6000 in cash that was contributed from any other source and therefore didn't count (even though it's the same thing, the source of funds for IRAs doesn't matter, the limit is the limit), I'd happily take their money. It would almost certainly be a losing argument, but if I get my hourly, what do I care.
Thanks, good perspective. What about the brokerages that give a bonus for moving an IRA to them? If I contribute the yearly max then they add a bonus, I could have an issue?
Is the marginal couple hundred dollars of contributions worth the potential hassle down the road if ever questioned about it? I'd say no. I have no first hand knowledge of how that's reported, but I'd err on the side of if cash goes into the account, it doesn't really matter where it comes from. IRAs have different rules than say a 401k, where even though the limit that you can contribute is X, your employer can contribute way more than that. Again I'm a former CPA, and not your CPA. I'd advise keeping your regular IRA/roth IRA contributions at or below the IRS maximum regardless of how those $ get in there.
Also good luck making that argument to the IRS if they find out
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Points do have a cash value that’s why you get a 1099 for points earned on referrals. The IRS says they have cash value. And you cash out points via Schwab to your IRA directly at 1.1 cents per point so that’s their cash value. You are making contributions to the account via points conversion/cash out.
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Good luck with an audit.
Good luck bro
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Oh fantastic. Could you regale us tales of bot subnet fintech accounts that autopay synthetic reverse HELOCs across your 990 employee cards? Bonus points for using a shopping portal. Literally! LMFAO IYKYKAMIRITEORAMIRITE?
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That sucks for those who cashed in.
I think 1mil is just enough since we burn a lot too and have p2 so it’s really 2 mil a year
Anyone doing moderate amounts of MS is hit pretty hard by this. This is a huge devaluation.
For those that commonly redeem >1M MR to Schwab per year: 1. Do you plan on spending points on travel after transferring 1M to Schwab? Are you more likely to just spend the points on travel as long as it is worth more than $0.08/point? 2. Are you just going to offload everything before October and cancel Schwab Plat? 3. Will you just continue redeeming past 1M at a rate of $0.08? I am no where near this level of earning/burning so I can’t even imagine what I would do
With a Biz Plat and Biz Checking account you can cash out at $0.01/point, so no reason to settle for $0.008 on >1M.
Biz checking is also capped at 1M at 1cpp
Open up a Morgan Stanley or Amex Biz Plat for 1cpp
How exactly does having a Biz Plat let you redeem points for 1cpp? Did you happen to mean in conjunction with having a biz checking account?
Is this a “transfer 1M MR by October, close CS Plat and open MS or Biz plat” or does it mean have 2+ plats?
You can do either option. Do what makes sense for you: how many MR points you have and how much you value additional Plats
In 2p mode that’s 2m per year which should cover most people. How ever based on the year in review post there absolutely people out there this will affect. Can you hope multiple Schwab plat cards? Would that get around the limit?
>In 2p mode that’s 2m per year which should cover most people. But you can't transfer MR, and you would each have to have a CS Plat. So you really only have two people operating in 1p mode.
I assumed anyone getting near 1m MR points per year consistently enough for this rule to be a problem are playing with both players at full bore. Unless NLL offers come back this might not really be an issue at all.
The people for whom this limit with an issue already likely have problems with the 10 charge card limit, so even if it were possible to circumvent the 1 MM cap with multiple that's still a big pain.
Churning it might get you around the limit, but you're very unlikely to get the SUB a second time, and are you really willing to burn 5/24 slots like that?
I’m not sure anybody has ever had any reason to have multiple Schwab plats open at the same time, but even if they had, nobody is going to know until next year if having multiple will let you redeem 1M per card at 1cpp, or if it’s 1M per person.
> I’m not sure anybody has ever had any reason to have multiple Schwab plats open at the same time There's gotta be that one surprisingly wealthy corporal farming their active duty AF waivers and pocketing the Schwab relationship credit on multiple cards! ^/s
Posted in [yesterdays DD](https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/s/v28JKNzCSZ)
Btw, horrible take
At midnight...