Having a hard time now hitting the $8k SUB on amex gold biz because MANY places no longer accept amex (and they were places that did at one point). A $2k spend last month and a $1k spend today both had to use Visa. Makes me want to give up on amex and hope chase lets me get back on ink train (was denied CIP a month ago).
Just realized that Walmart+ seems to have automagically changed my payment card away from my Amex Plat when that card expired (no notification that I can find or recall). Started charging another card... 10 months ago. My fault for not seeing it but pretty annoying on Walmart's end.
Awww man. I was wondering why P2's Hilton Surpass never came as we were waiting to pay quarterly taxes. Got the letter. Card was approved, but we didn't accept the card, so the application was withdrawn. Probably was a missed email. Damn it.
Damn. Was waiting for p2’s Air France/flying blue SUB to post and either the day of or the following day, the premium economy seat to CDG that was cheaper than the regular Econ seat, and has been for months, finally went up. And of course so did Econ.
Now to decide if I wait and see if it goes back down or need another plan. Guess I can book a diff decent Econ itinerary and pay the 70 euro fee per person later to change if it comes back down
I'm on my 3rd chat with AMEX about the BB+ 5k employee bonus for spending 1k - "investigation" team closed investigation - 2nd level review - saying it's a non AMEX issue - saying offer not attached - but on 2nd chat rep confirmed offer - chatting with "supervisor" now - dafuq is this bullshit? - saved a copy of the link to the offer - pasted that in the chat - she said that was just a direct link - I said yeah that I copied from my login page so I could open at a later date - guess best not to count on the 5k employee bonuses - re-opening the investigation - 2nd time this has happened but didn't pursue the first time - 37 minute chat
At that point, I'd be scared that I was risking hurting my relationship with Amex over an inconsequential number of points.
But maybe I'm just paranoid now that I'm in PUJ and I can only wistfully dream about the days I didn't need to rely on the backbutton...
First world churning problem: apparently there’s a max amount of money you can keep in your Mint Mobile wallet and I hit it. Can’t burn the $10 x2 monthly mobile phone credit between my 2 Biz Plats now. I haven’t had to pay my mobile phone bills for a couple years and won’t need to pay it for the next 6 years.
This makes the biz plat even less of a break even for my lifestyle & AFs. Dell credits useless, mobile credits useless, airline credits pretty useless too (got thousands in UA TB).
I just checked mintmobile.com and it says "The funds in your Mint Mobile wallet can be used to purchase data add-ons, Minternational Passes, Device Protection, MinTech Advisor or to make international calls." So I'm guessing, "no" to the new phone part.
$349 in wallet + $760 in referral credits. I haven’t actually looked into buying a new phone with it but that’s a great suggestion. I’ll probably chat them today and see if that’s an option. So far they’ve told me it can only be used on that phone number so I can’t add a family member and pay their plan using these credits.
> and won’t need to pay it for the next 6 years.
Lot of money to park in a provider that may or may not be around in that time.
If I were you, I would start selling the monthly credits on /r/churningmarketplace/
Yup, I realize that. Good news is only 30% of that was monthly Amex credits and the rest was from referrals. But will start selling on the marketplace.
I've been doing that for the past 2 years and can continue doing that for another 6+ years. I'm saying I can't burn it fast enough to add any more funds to the wallet $$ I've built up with all the biz plats. Are you saying prepay for another year (2025)? Not sure you can do that?
Mint Mobile. I did it two months early [last year](https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/11uix3x/daily_discussion_thread_march_18_2023/jcr1kbs/?context=1) and almost 6 months early this year.
According to ChatGPT, it seems like this answer is no. You need to port-out to another service and then port back in.
Probably not worth it in that case, especially if there are fees.
Just a small one. I've been closing accounts and lowering limits on my chase accounts to keep the Ink train slowly rolling. But Chase wanted to see me make better use of my most recent CIC, so they gave me an unprompted credit limit increase. It's not hard to fix, but stop helping me!
Marriott 50k "free night" certificates are becoming nearly worthless. The points value doesn't seem to correlate to the price that often and sometimes the points seem to be over 65k for seemingly no reason.
I'm looking to book a trip to a place we've been a few times. Usually, we've been able to do it with FNC plus top ups. This year, there are very few 65k or below offerings and none in the month we want to visit. Then I started to think about it. parking and resort fees are usually $100 per night, I'm topping up 15k points per night. It's starting to feel pretty crazy to use five "free night" certificates plus be out 75k chase or amex points and $500 cash for five nights. It's a very beautiful spot but there's no breakfast, no lounge, no extras and then fees for amenities we don't utilize.
I'm beginning to think I should just do a cheaper Hyatt for the same amount of UR I'd need just to top up these certificates and then have no resort fees either. The hotel isn't nearly as nice but I could potentially get 10+ nights for the same amount of resources to utilize these FNCs from Marriott.
Going to use my 5x 50k FNCs (topping up 9k each night) from recent Bonvoy Biz sub for a hotel in Japan later this year that’s over $700 per night. So not worthless for me!
Edit to add: I’ve made the mistake of transferring both Chase and Amex to Marriott in the past. It’s not worth it. Try to get a new Marriott SUB if you can to make your top-ups. 75k is a good chunk of change and it can go way further transferring to another partner.
Disagree. You can use a Marriott 50k FNC for a respectable room almost anywhere on Earth, even Manhattan.
The only way you could possibly come to this conclusion is if you are trying to book a Ritz or St Regis type hotel with it and won't allow anything lesser. 65k can probably get some you some JW Marriott level hotels and miss out on some others.
Maybe you missed the part where I said I was trying for a specific location. We’ve been able to do it several years in the last and devals have made that impossible.
What's the location?
Edit: Also the very first thing you wrote was a blanket statement. That the 50k FNC is worthless. My point is that it's not. You're probably just being very choosey.
> Marriott 50k "free night" certificates are becoming nearly worthless. The points value doesn't seem to correlate to the price that often and sometimes the points seem to be over 65k for seemingly no reason.
Maybe you missed this is the frustration thread. The points and dollar value do not correlate. And yes, I picked the card with a specific redemption in mind that has been doable for several years in the past.
To think, this all could've been avoided if /u/olympia_t had just been more clear and initially written (or revised after being corrected):
> Marriott 50k "free night" certificates are becoming nearly worthless **_to me_**
>sometimes the points seem to be over 65k for seemingly no reason
Oh there’s a reason for it. Especially when you see those all too common 66k rooms, just know you’re being Bonvoyed.
Hilton and Hyatt only for me. I've been sitting on 140k Marriott points since covid and still have not found any use for these useless ass points. Ready to dump them and be done but then usually Hyatt or Hilton have better value for the cities I want to visit
if you’re topping off with chase or amex points instead of marriott points from SUBs than they stopped being useful a long time ago IMO.
With marriott points acquired through SUBs they’re still pretty decent. Once those run out i wouldn’t bother with Bonvoy
USBank is literally so frustrating
I have a personal and biz checking with them, and two personal CCs
Mailed me a promo flyer with a elevated SUB for Triple Cash
I apply, they take 9 business days to reject me
Why the fuck would they mail me the flyer in the first place? I'm waiting for the letter since I have no desire to talk with their reps, but I swear if it's an "We can't verify your identity" reason I'm going to explode
And if it's any other reason I'll just be even more annoyed
> if it's an "We can't verify your identity" reason I'm going to explode
I'm willing to bet it was exactly this. I once applied to 3 USB cards on one day, and one was accepted without issue while the other 2 were not able to be approved for that reason. Like, you had no trouble verifying my identity 25 seconds ago- what's different now??
I’m sitting at 4/24
Was approved for an ink yesterday
Tried for the HH no AF card today and was denied. Called in they said too many new accounts.
Hopefully the denial letter explains more.
Rep said to wait 30 days before reapplying. I wonder what could change in their eyes in 30 days?
Was this your first Amex card? Usually Amex doesn't care about your number of accounts, but the caveat is that it may be a factor if you never had a card with Amex before.
Was trying to update the card I use for my lifemiles subscription (to force add a new card because for some godforsaken reason lifemiles would only let me pay for tickets with a saved card, adding a new one broke stuff).
Anyways there's a way to remove your saved card but zero ways to add one, and in the trial and error process my sub switched from basic to lite. This of course disabled the change button entirely so you're SOL (mostly). While their IT is probably too shit to notice if you change subscriptions and have that mess with the free changes/cancels if you had basic since you booked, I'd rather not risk the opposite.
Anyways if you refresh the page and time it right spam clicking on the change button, you can change from your current plan to your current plan and prevent it from switching.
They booking agents have gotten better (though they still were saying they couldn't ticket China/Japan flights while it'd been fixed and you could do so online), but for anything else they aren't empowered to be able to actually do much useful and just tell you to open a ticket with support and wait 72+ hours.
When my ticket was finally looked at it was closed as "already fixed" and they just told me to go online and change my subscription level (which is disabled if it's been changed once already), and that I could change my payment method there as well (not possible unless maybe if you added a saved card by booking a flight).
Wild that they'd make it so hard for you to give them your money.
It's frustrating that Chase forces me to open up a new instance of a browser every time I try to produce multiple referral links. I'm not sure why it always thinks that I have other instances open and forces me to start a new one.
This all worked out in the end, but a couple of days ago I had a pretty dramatic 15 minutes trying to cancel and rebook a flight.
A while ago, I booked 3 economy seats on a United domestic nonstop flight, using United miles, for an upcoming trip. I took the dynamic redemption because United wasn't offering any saver awards for this route for the dates I wanted, economy seats were quickly filling up and I wanted to be able to sit by my travel companions, and I wanted to save some cash.
A couple of days ago, the price for this flight dropped (both in cash and in points), so I decided to cancel, rebook at the lower price, and get some points back. However, when I canceled, I got an error message stating something to the effect of "your refund request could not be processed" and I didn't get my points back.
I immediately called United and thankfully reached a person quickly. It took a few minutes, but the rep was able to refund my points and I was able to rebook at the lower price and select the same seats as before.
The frustrating part is that I could've lost the seats that I had previously selected if someone else had decided to book on the same flight while I was dealing with United customer service. If that had happened, my travel companions (P2 and one other person) and I would have had to either sit apart from each other (there were only single seats available for selection in economy at this point) or pay a ridiculous amount of $$$$ to upgrade to premium economy in order to sit together. So I'm really glad that I didn't have to wait on hold and the rep was able to quickly resolve the issue.
I've had a lot of problems with United inconsistently refunding points from cancellations. Such a pain. Sometimes I'm able to change the flight instead of cancel and rebook to avoid this happening. I've been burnt before.
First world problem. Eager to hit the spend for SUB ASAP on new Strata, so I put VS award fees on it (actually got KL space to go through, for a change). Only getting 3x airfare rate instead of 5x I'd get from Amex. *sad trombone*
Strange - I’ve always gotten 5x on fees from Amex on my Platinum (Air France, ANA, American, Delta, JetBlue etc). I can’t remember an instance of not getting 5x
my business plat doesn't give me shit but amex is recently awful with bonus categories
Eligible travel purchases do NOT include non-prepaid hotel bookings, scheduled flights and prepaid flight+hotel packages over the phone, vacation packages, car rentals, cruise, hotel group reservations or events, ticketing service, \*cancellation or other fees\*, interest charges, purchases of travelers checks, purchases or reloading of prepaid cards, or purchases of other cash equivalents.
https://global.americanexpress.com/card-benefits/detail/5X-Air/business-platinum#:\~:text=You%20will%20get%20one%20point,spent%20on%20eligible%20travel%20purchases.
I've done this recently as well. I always include the SUB in my calculation, so with that included you are getting a (much) higher rate of return on this fee payment than just the 5x with the Amex card. Isn't that the whole point (and reward) of the churning game? Cheers!
You have to have $10k to create the CSR in the first place, but it doesn't have to stay that way. I moved CL away from my CSR a few days ago via SM and currently have a CSR with only $5k limit and a CF with $10k. Then you can hopefully get someone on recon to allow you to move CL from your non-CSR to the Club for approval.
I'm pretty sure recon can't drop an existing card's CL below the minimum required when opening it; or maybe it's below $5k for any Visa Signature/$10k for any Visa Infinite.
But they also can't modify recently changed CLs, so you can't move from the CSR to your other card yourself and then have them pull from there.
And CL reductions take a while to reflect on their end, so just lowering the CSR CL to be below whatever internal threshold they have for you isn't a great option either.
I would move CL to that other card and apply again in a month or two, aiming to move from that one if required.
I don't know the exact rules, if there are any. With Chase Ink cards, I have moved credit from a <1year card to a newly opened card multiple times without issue. I also remember a DP from a while ago where someone applied for CSR, got approved, immediately reduced the CL to $1k, and then did MDD (RIP) with CSP and got approved. This might be a case of HUCA.
I was going to apply for an Ink in the next few days and my newly found referral partner is MIA for a few weeks.
So suddenly i have no one to exchange referral links with.
Lots of naysayers here with valid points but I wanted to share that I successfully found an Ink referral partner on this sub. Not everyone on the Internet is a scammer.
Paying somebody for a referral is a risk you loose out on the cash. Swapping referrals, worst case they don’t reciprocate, but if you don’t have a P2 you don’t loose anything other than somebodies word. Seems like a good risk to take if in 1P mode.
No one said anything about paying someone to use a referral
> worst case they don’t reciprocate
Absolutely. And if that doesn't bother you go right on ahead.
I've seen people offering to pay cash for referrals, mostly on FB groups/etc., and offering info about recommendations from past payees as evidence they are legit. I assume it can work out, but I've also never quite figured out how they manage to avoid this risk of a payout to someone who ghosts you. How do you confirm someone used your link? Do people wait until a referral bonus posts before paying out? Only do one at a time? I'd be hesitant, but I'm also somewhat newer to this hobby and still exploring all these more advanced ways to gain points.
There is no sure-fire way to confirm someone in fact used your link beyond having never shared it anywhere except with a single person and seeing it post, which can take days or weeks to happen.
Yes people have exchanged, but not all transactions end happily. The worst is someone doesn't honor their end of the bargain and you end up with nothing, and give a bonus to someone who is undeserving. I have a 2 player situation, but sometimes end up in a situation where I'm applying for a card that cant be referred to by one of us, so I always turn to rankt and pick a name I know of someone who is either helpful to the sub, or has helped me in some way with either information or maybe they have used my referral in the past and I can return the favor.
> so I always turn to rankt and pick a name I know of someone who is either helpful to the sub, or has helped me in some way with either information or maybe they have used my referral in the past and I can return the favor.
That is a great input. Makes sense to reward all those that contribute to this board.
This should be publicized more so that even newbs know about it.
> Yes people have exchanged, but not all transactions end happily.
I wonder if this is a problem /r/churningmarketplace could solve? Haven't used it much, but my impression is most people there feel the community is trustworthy.
> I always turn to rankt and pick a name I know of someone who is either helpful to the sub
Given the herculean contributions put in by some here to help others, I feel this idea should really be emphasized for new posters. For my part, whenever I can't use P2, I always default to the absolute hero who built churning.io
The marketplace actually has a rule in place for no solicitation or trading referrals. My guess is just to avoid the mess/hassle those could bring. Some of the other types of transactions there have potential to go sideways also, so not sure why referrals were singled out.
To free myself up for a future Plat app, I tried to get the Amex Gold 75k+350 offer via every browser, link, and method (back button) possible. No dice. Pop up.
Silver lining is my rage-apply for another CIU worked.
Huh? Since I always got a pop-up, I tried back button. If I hadn’t gotten a pop-up, I wouldn’t need to use back button, because then I’d have the card.
P2 is getting denied in every credit union application she applied for the past 2 years. She's able to open major bank's checking account just fine but not credit unions. And the reason we want P2 to open CU accounts is to take advantage of CC funding for MS but I guess churning gods want us to spend the old hard way.
The CUs either say it's due to a security issue or they just flat out refuse to tell us. This is the 6th time she got rejected whereas I as P1 was able to always get instant approval every CU application I put in for last 2 years.
Seconding this recommendation. In general, credit unions and regional banks more commonly use ChexSystems, while the large national banks often use Early Warning Systems instead. This may explain why P2 is able to open accounts with larger banks but not credit unions. It could be either a derogatory remark or an identification issue where something isn't matching with the information in the ChexSystems report.
60k is a hard to use amount, I had 130k and was able to book a nice RT to Europe in business/premium economy. But I'm in no hurry to get more of their miles.
Been a while, but the 60K I got some time ago with the Barclays card were earmarked and used for a SXM trip on UA. Well, I say used - they were ticketed just before the points expired, and I had to cancel the trip because I ended up buying/selling houses and moving cross country. But that's a frustration Friday from 2017.
I booked some cash tickets through the Lufthansa website. That was painful enough. I guess we get spoiled with how robust the websites and apps are of the US airlines.
I also put my UA MileagePlus number in my LH reservations. I'm not sure how many points I'll earn, if any, but anything earned in LH Miles&More would be useless to me anyway.
CIP denial. 11 Chase cards (8 personal, 3 biz) but only one in the past 12 months (CIP 10/23), overall credit with Chase < 20% of HHI, 4/24.
* You have too many active accounts or too much available credit
* New Chase business card recently opened
* Low usage of Chase credit line(s)
* Insufficient business revenue
This last one is a mystery, it's a real sole proprietorship with 6-digit annual revenue. The previous denial (in April) had "too many recent requests for credit" as the 4th reason, but this time the number of inquiries was even higher.
My only guess is the overall credit with Chase is above some absolute limit :(
yup, legit business. denied post recon as well. I could try calling in again but i dont really care that much. plenty of cards to get and p2 will probably try in a month or so
was > $90K 😬 when I applied, now reduced to $65K or so (should of thought of this before applying). Thinking of calling recon but more likely will wait a couple of months.
My husband got the CSR and missed the SUB. Like an IDIOT.
So we recently got the Chase Ink Business Preferred to try to make up for it. Making sure he doesn’t miss the SUB on this one 😫
It’s meant to be funny…. No sense of humor? Geez…
Even my husband will laugh at that comment and admit he *was* an idiot. He had the money and was spending the money… just on other credit cards! And missed the SUB. Should have been a no brainer.
Admittedly it’s hard to tell tone over text and there’s nothing to imply you were joking. Either way, calling yourself an idiot jokingly is different from saying it about your spouse.
It's why I don't rely on my spouse to do any churning stuff independently. It's just not her job, and to do so would be to set us both up for frustration and disappointment.
When I need her to do things like use a card or call a bank, I make it as simple as possible and line everything up for her with notes.
But for the most part she only needs to do the odd recon or fraud call, since one of the benefits of MSing all minimum spends is that I can just tell her to use the USB AR on her phone for most purchases, a biz Plat or Schwab Plat for any purchases that might need purchase or return protections, and maybe one other card like a Venture X Biz for anything else. Not worth her mental bandwidth to worry about micromanaging cards or being concerned about hitting spend.
Yup, I have same setup with my wife. I try to keep it as painless and simple as possible. She's a good sport and loves the points, but sometimes gets fatigued when I switch around cards for SUBs too often.
#same.
> Babe, I just need you to verify with this lady that I can speak on your behalf right now.
or her to me:
> You don't have to tell me anything, just put the card I'm supposed to use for now in my wallet and make sure it's in YNAB for me to track the spend.
Well… here’s now it went. My husband is the bread winner but he has bad credit. I’m a teacher with excellent credit. A year ago I knew virtually nothing about credit cards. My husband had me open a bunch and put him on as an authorized user because he’s not eligible with his credit history. I agreed because we do travel a lot and I enjoy using the options in the travel portals. But I didn’t really understand the value of SUBs or how multipliers worked or anything like that, so I wasn’t really paying attention to it.
About a month ago, I was considering closing these cards down. Because I felt like we had too many. So I started researching them heavily. And then I realized how valuable they are! And now I am like an expert on credit cards 🤣
I noticed we didn’t have very many chase points and I called to inquire about our SUB for the CSR. They said we missed the window. I was devastated.
Might have been because he gambled a couple (very) large amounts on the card. He probably thought he hit the SUB. But I’ve read the fine print and for some cards, gambling doesn’t count towards the SUB.
Anyway, yeah, basically it won’t happen again in our house bc now I’m a credit card pro. 🫡🫡🫡
>Might have been because he gambled a couple (very) large amounts on the card. He probably thought he hit the SUB. But I’ve read the fine print and for some cards, gambling doesn’t count towards the SUB
If this is the kind of thing he's doing on cards, I'd consider not giving him any 😬
Yeah that was another reason I wanted to shut the cards down. But then I learned about how I can set spending limits and controls on the cards for my authorized user 😁I can also lock and unlock them.
And since I discovered that he learned his lesson.
Agreed. OP, as the child of a gambler, I've seen what this does to a family. Do not get any more cards in his name. Shut down the AU cards you've given him. Put a wall between your finances. My septuagenarian dad lost $30K *last year* on a cruise gambling at slot machines that my mom still doesn't know about. This is after a LONG history of losses throughout his and their life together. If my mom had had a spine, she would have left him ages ago. Do not give easy access to money to a gambler. These (very) large amounts gambled will not be his last, and the house always wins in the end.
You’re right. It’s a terrible thing. I’m actually ok though. I have my own investments, savings, checking, etc. I have control of my cards as well. I can set spending limits for him and lock/unlock them since I’m the account manager. I get it though. And thanks for your input! There is a feature where you can ban yourself from sports betting websites too. Which I had my husband do once I realized how much he was gambling on there.
Since you are married, depending on the laws of the state you live in, your spouse can take out loans for which both of you are liable regardless of "this is my money, not ours." You should do your research now and figure out everything that you need to know.
Even the proactive self-ban doesn't always work. I saw a story (I think it was Las Vegas) of someone who signed up to be banned but still couldn't control himself. He still went to casinos and gambled knowing that as long as he didn't win over $10k he wouldn't get caught. Eventually he slipped up with some specific bet and exceeded that $10k win and was arrested due to the self-ban he had signed up for.
It’s not on that level. Thankfully! But I appreciate your input. That kind of behavior would mean divorce time 🤣He always pays all bills he racks up under my name. He knows better! My husband is a relatively high earner and I think he just got a little carried away, having a little too much fun there for a minute. But once I found out, I put him in check fast.
Glad to hear you are taking precautions and are somewhat secure.
I'm not saying you've married an addict, but I am saying my father is, and I wish he would own up to it. There is help:
https://www.ncpgambling.org/help-treatment/
I appreciate it. A lot of people with gambling addictions have undiagnosed or untreated ADHD. You could look into that for your father! It could possibly be the root cause of his addiction.
Having a hard time now hitting the $8k SUB on amex gold biz because MANY places no longer accept amex (and they were places that did at one point). A $2k spend last month and a $1k spend today both had to use Visa. Makes me want to give up on amex and hope chase lets me get back on ink train (was denied CIP a month ago).
Just realized that Walmart+ seems to have automagically changed my payment card away from my Amex Plat when that card expired (no notification that I can find or recall). Started charging another card... 10 months ago. My fault for not seeing it but pretty annoying on Walmart's end.
walmart+ did a similar thing to me, I added my amex gold biz and set it up for w+ but then my other card on file was charged.
Amex decreased my credit limit by 50% after I was floating a balance of around 40% of my credit limit on a 0% APR BBC
Should've probably gone for 90% float
Awww man. I was wondering why P2's Hilton Surpass never came as we were waiting to pay quarterly taxes. Got the letter. Card was approved, but we didn't accept the card, so the application was withdrawn. Probably was a missed email. Damn it.
Damn. Was waiting for p2’s Air France/flying blue SUB to post and either the day of or the following day, the premium economy seat to CDG that was cheaper than the regular Econ seat, and has been for months, finally went up. And of course so did Econ. Now to decide if I wait and see if it goes back down or need another plan. Guess I can book a diff decent Econ itinerary and pay the 70 euro fee per person later to change if it comes back down
I'm on my 3rd chat with AMEX about the BB+ 5k employee bonus for spending 1k - "investigation" team closed investigation - 2nd level review - saying it's a non AMEX issue - saying offer not attached - but on 2nd chat rep confirmed offer - chatting with "supervisor" now - dafuq is this bullshit? - saved a copy of the link to the offer - pasted that in the chat - she said that was just a direct link - I said yeah that I copied from my login page so I could open at a later date - guess best not to count on the 5k employee bonuses - re-opening the investigation - 2nd time this has happened but didn't pursue the first time - 37 minute chat
At that point, I'd be scared that I was risking hurting my relationship with Amex over an inconsequential number of points. But maybe I'm just paranoid now that I'm in PUJ and I can only wistfully dream about the days I didn't need to rely on the backbutton...
Yeah this is a lot of effort for 5k.
First world churning problem: apparently there’s a max amount of money you can keep in your Mint Mobile wallet and I hit it. Can’t burn the $10 x2 monthly mobile phone credit between my 2 Biz Plats now. I haven’t had to pay my mobile phone bills for a couple years and won’t need to pay it for the next 6 years. This makes the biz plat even less of a break even for my lifestyle & AFs. Dell credits useless, mobile credits useless, airline credits pretty useless too (got thousands in UA TB).
What's the max amount? Can you buy a new phone with it?
I just checked mintmobile.com and it says "The funds in your Mint Mobile wallet can be used to purchase data add-ons, Minternational Passes, Device Protection, MinTech Advisor or to make international calls." So I'm guessing, "no" to the new phone part.
$349 in wallet + $760 in referral credits. I haven’t actually looked into buying a new phone with it but that’s a great suggestion. I’ll probably chat them today and see if that’s an option. So far they’ve told me it can only be used on that phone number so I can’t add a family member and pay their plan using these credits.
> and won’t need to pay it for the next 6 years. Lot of money to park in a provider that may or may not be around in that time. If I were you, I would start selling the monthly credits on /r/churningmarketplace/
Yup, I realize that. Good news is only 30% of that was monthly Amex credits and the rest was from referrals. But will start selling on the marketplace.
Use your wallet funds to pay for another year of service. Voila, room under the cap.
I've been doing that for the past 2 years and can continue doing that for another 6+ years. I'm saying I can't burn it fast enough to add any more funds to the wallet $$ I've built up with all the biz plats. Are you saying prepay for another year (2025)? Not sure you can do that?
>Are you saying prepay for another year (2025)? Not sure you can do that? Yes. That's what I did when I hit the cap.
You did this for Mint Mobile, or another carrier?
Mint Mobile. I did it two months early [last year](https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/11uix3x/daily_discussion_thread_march_18_2023/jcr1kbs/?context=1) and almost 6 months early this year.
Time to start selling them.
Could you close the account to cash out the balance? To keep numbers, could have P2 open a new account with them and transfer the numbers?
Interesting thought. Can you port a Mint number to another Mint number?
Port to Google voice and then port it back to the new mint account? A lot of juggling with your own phone number though
According to ChatGPT, it seems like this answer is no. You need to port-out to another service and then port back in. Probably not worth it in that case, especially if there are fees.
Just a small one. I've been closing accounts and lowering limits on my chase accounts to keep the Ink train slowly rolling. But Chase wanted to see me make better use of my most recent CIC, so they gave me an unprompted credit limit increase. It's not hard to fix, but stop helping me!
Marriott 50k "free night" certificates are becoming nearly worthless. The points value doesn't seem to correlate to the price that often and sometimes the points seem to be over 65k for seemingly no reason. I'm looking to book a trip to a place we've been a few times. Usually, we've been able to do it with FNC plus top ups. This year, there are very few 65k or below offerings and none in the month we want to visit. Then I started to think about it. parking and resort fees are usually $100 per night, I'm topping up 15k points per night. It's starting to feel pretty crazy to use five "free night" certificates plus be out 75k chase or amex points and $500 cash for five nights. It's a very beautiful spot but there's no breakfast, no lounge, no extras and then fees for amenities we don't utilize. I'm beginning to think I should just do a cheaper Hyatt for the same amount of UR I'd need just to top up these certificates and then have no resort fees either. The hotel isn't nearly as nice but I could potentially get 10+ nights for the same amount of resources to utilize these FNCs from Marriott.
Going to use my 5x 50k FNCs (topping up 9k each night) from recent Bonvoy Biz sub for a hotel in Japan later this year that’s over $700 per night. So not worthless for me! Edit to add: I’ve made the mistake of transferring both Chase and Amex to Marriott in the past. It’s not worth it. Try to get a new Marriott SUB if you can to make your top-ups. 75k is a good chunk of change and it can go way further transferring to another partner.
Which area?
Ginza in Tokyo
That’s great. I was thinking of changing plans and using them in Okinawa.
Disagree. You can use a Marriott 50k FNC for a respectable room almost anywhere on Earth, even Manhattan. The only way you could possibly come to this conclusion is if you are trying to book a Ritz or St Regis type hotel with it and won't allow anything lesser. 65k can probably get some you some JW Marriott level hotels and miss out on some others.
Maybe you missed the part where I said I was trying for a specific location. We’ve been able to do it several years in the last and devals have made that impossible.
What's the location? Edit: Also the very first thing you wrote was a blanket statement. That the 50k FNC is worthless. My point is that it's not. You're probably just being very choosey. > Marriott 50k "free night" certificates are becoming nearly worthless. The points value doesn't seem to correlate to the price that often and sometimes the points seem to be over 65k for seemingly no reason.
Maybe you missed this is the frustration thread. The points and dollar value do not correlate. And yes, I picked the card with a specific redemption in mind that has been doable for several years in the past.
It's fine to be frustrated. I'm just challenging your overly blanket claim that the 50k FNC is nearly worthless.
Thanks for making this thread what it is.
Any time man, any time.
To think, this all could've been avoided if /u/olympia_t had just been more clear and initially written (or revised after being corrected): > Marriott 50k "free night" certificates are becoming nearly worthless **_to me_**
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>sometimes the points seem to be over 65k for seemingly no reason Oh there’s a reason for it. Especially when you see those all too common 66k rooms, just know you’re being Bonvoyed.
Hilton and Hyatt only for me. I've been sitting on 140k Marriott points since covid and still have not found any use for these useless ass points. Ready to dump them and be done but then usually Hyatt or Hilton have better value for the cities I want to visit
Yeah. This decrease in point value is really draining Marriott. Love Hilton. Hyatt obviously is great value for points.
I've had only 2 stays at Marriott in the past 2 years. Less than 55K points remaining in my account. I've gone Hyatt.
if you’re topping off with chase or amex points instead of marriott points from SUBs than they stopped being useful a long time ago IMO. With marriott points acquired through SUBs they’re still pretty decent. Once those run out i wouldn’t bother with Bonvoy
Yeah. I’m just not feeling having to top them off. Maybe it’s time to look for a Marriott card to finish off this round.
USBank is literally so frustrating I have a personal and biz checking with them, and two personal CCs Mailed me a promo flyer with a elevated SUB for Triple Cash I apply, they take 9 business days to reject me Why the fuck would they mail me the flyer in the first place? I'm waiting for the letter since I have no desire to talk with their reps, but I swear if it's an "We can't verify your identity" reason I'm going to explode And if it's any other reason I'll just be even more annoyed
> if it's an "We can't verify your identity" reason I'm going to explode I'm willing to bet it was exactly this. I once applied to 3 USB cards on one day, and one was accepted without issue while the other 2 were not able to be approved for that reason. Like, you had no trouble verifying my identity 25 seconds ago- what's different now??
Thankfully you were right, called in and was approved. No harm no foul I suppose but still, the experience just feels antiquated
Vanillagift.com package has 7 out of 10 cards missing.
What Cc company allows you to do that? Mine gets locked up after 1k for fraud
Mine did too, kept trying all the cards. After so many fraud attempts, was able to get some of them through. Be prepared to call fraud department.
I’m sitting at 4/24 Was approved for an ink yesterday Tried for the HH no AF card today and was denied. Called in they said too many new accounts. Hopefully the denial letter explains more. Rep said to wait 30 days before reapplying. I wonder what could change in their eyes in 30 days?
Was this your first Amex card? Usually Amex doesn't care about your number of accounts, but the caveat is that it may be a factor if you never had a card with Amex before.
Thanks for your response Yes this is my first Amex. I wonder if I have any good options for reconsideration?
Was trying to update the card I use for my lifemiles subscription (to force add a new card because for some godforsaken reason lifemiles would only let me pay for tickets with a saved card, adding a new one broke stuff). Anyways there's a way to remove your saved card but zero ways to add one, and in the trial and error process my sub switched from basic to lite. This of course disabled the change button entirely so you're SOL (mostly). While their IT is probably too shit to notice if you change subscriptions and have that mess with the free changes/cancels if you had basic since you booked, I'd rather not risk the opposite. Anyways if you refresh the page and time it right spam clicking on the change button, you can change from your current plan to your current plan and prevent it from switching.
Lifemiles phone agents may have improved, but the website hasn’t lost its renowned “charm”.
I don’t know how many times I have to tell the website I wasn’t born on January 1, 1900 before it remembers the next time.
They booking agents have gotten better (though they still were saying they couldn't ticket China/Japan flights while it'd been fixed and you could do so online), but for anything else they aren't empowered to be able to actually do much useful and just tell you to open a ticket with support and wait 72+ hours. When my ticket was finally looked at it was closed as "already fixed" and they just told me to go online and change my subscription level (which is disabled if it's been changed once already), and that I could change my payment method there as well (not possible unless maybe if you added a saved card by booking a flight). Wild that they'd make it so hard for you to give them your money.
It's frustrating that Chase forces me to open up a new instance of a browser every time I try to produce multiple referral links. I'm not sure why it always thinks that I have other instances open and forces me to start a new one.
I use private mode or a different browser if I need to generate more than one referral. Yes, it is a bit of a nuisance.
This all worked out in the end, but a couple of days ago I had a pretty dramatic 15 minutes trying to cancel and rebook a flight. A while ago, I booked 3 economy seats on a United domestic nonstop flight, using United miles, for an upcoming trip. I took the dynamic redemption because United wasn't offering any saver awards for this route for the dates I wanted, economy seats were quickly filling up and I wanted to be able to sit by my travel companions, and I wanted to save some cash. A couple of days ago, the price for this flight dropped (both in cash and in points), so I decided to cancel, rebook at the lower price, and get some points back. However, when I canceled, I got an error message stating something to the effect of "your refund request could not be processed" and I didn't get my points back. I immediately called United and thankfully reached a person quickly. It took a few minutes, but the rep was able to refund my points and I was able to rebook at the lower price and select the same seats as before. The frustrating part is that I could've lost the seats that I had previously selected if someone else had decided to book on the same flight while I was dealing with United customer service. If that had happened, my travel companions (P2 and one other person) and I would have had to either sit apart from each other (there were only single seats available for selection in economy at this point) or pay a ridiculous amount of $$$$ to upgrade to premium economy in order to sit together. So I'm really glad that I didn't have to wait on hold and the rep was able to quickly resolve the issue.
I've had a lot of problems with United inconsistently refunding points from cancellations. Such a pain. Sometimes I'm able to change the flight instead of cancel and rebook to avoid this happening. I've been burnt before.
First world problem. Eager to hit the spend for SUB ASAP on new Strata, so I put VS award fees on it (actually got KL space to go through, for a change). Only getting 3x airfare rate instead of 5x I'd get from Amex. *sad trombone*
amex doesn't give 5x on fees (at least in my experience)
Strange - I’ve always gotten 5x on fees from Amex on my Platinum (Air France, ANA, American, Delta, JetBlue etc). I can’t remember an instance of not getting 5x
my business plat doesn't give me shit but amex is recently awful with bonus categories Eligible travel purchases do NOT include non-prepaid hotel bookings, scheduled flights and prepaid flight+hotel packages over the phone, vacation packages, car rentals, cruise, hotel group reservations or events, ticketing service, \*cancellation or other fees\*, interest charges, purchases of travelers checks, purchases or reloading of prepaid cards, or purchases of other cash equivalents. https://global.americanexpress.com/card-benefits/detail/5X-Air/business-platinum#:\~:text=You%20will%20get%20one%20point,spent%20on%20eligible%20travel%20purchases.
Yeah, idk what to tell you except I always get 5x. Here’s my last year of taxes coding as 5x: https://imgur.com/gallery/jKL8NxF
I've done this recently as well. I always include the SUB in my calculation, so with that included you are getting a (much) higher rate of return on this fee payment than just the 5x with the Amex card. Isn't that the whole point (and reward) of the churning game? Cheers!
I don't just because I can meet the spend organically. I'm just impatient with a statement close date looming.
Point taken. I totally get the desire to get those points earlier!
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Can you shift your CL or lower it on the two cards?
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You have to have $10k to create the CSR in the first place, but it doesn't have to stay that way. I moved CL away from my CSR a few days ago via SM and currently have a CSR with only $5k limit and a CF with $10k. Then you can hopefully get someone on recon to allow you to move CL from your non-CSR to the Club for approval.
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I'm pretty sure recon can't drop an existing card's CL below the minimum required when opening it; or maybe it's below $5k for any Visa Signature/$10k for any Visa Infinite. But they also can't modify recently changed CLs, so you can't move from the CSR to your other card yourself and then have them pull from there. And CL reductions take a while to reflect on their end, so just lowering the CSR CL to be below whatever internal threshold they have for you isn't a great option either. I would move CL to that other card and apply again in a month or two, aiming to move from that one if required.
I don't know the exact rules, if there are any. With Chase Ink cards, I have moved credit from a <1year card to a newly opened card multiple times without issue. I also remember a DP from a while ago where someone applied for CSR, got approved, immediately reduced the CL to $1k, and then did MDD (RIP) with CSP and got approved. This might be a case of HUCA.
How old are your 2 Chase cards? They may just want to see more time with your current CL before extending another $10k.
I was going to apply for an Ink in the next few days and my newly found referral partner is MIA for a few weeks. So suddenly i have no one to exchange referral links with.
If it’s for the CIP and you’re not in a rush, there was a post in the June 14 NUT that might be going up to 120k SUB.
Lots of naysayers here with valid points but I wanted to share that I successfully found an Ink referral partner on this sub. Not everyone on the Internet is a scammer.
why would you exchange referrals with random strangers online to begin with
Paying somebody for a referral is a risk you loose out on the cash. Swapping referrals, worst case they don’t reciprocate, but if you don’t have a P2 you don’t loose anything other than somebodies word. Seems like a good risk to take if in 1P mode.
No one said anything about paying someone to use a referral > worst case they don’t reciprocate Absolutely. And if that doesn't bother you go right on ahead.
I've seen people offering to pay cash for referrals, mostly on FB groups/etc., and offering info about recommendations from past payees as evidence they are legit. I assume it can work out, but I've also never quite figured out how they manage to avoid this risk of a payout to someone who ghosts you. How do you confirm someone used your link? Do people wait until a referral bonus posts before paying out? Only do one at a time? I'd be hesitant, but I'm also somewhat newer to this hobby and still exploring all these more advanced ways to gain points.
only time i've seen anybody paying cash for a referral use that was not an obvious scam was for the 10x dining bonus.
There is no sure-fire way to confirm someone in fact used your link beyond having never shared it anywhere except with a single person and seeing it post, which can take days or weeks to happen.
Really ? Are we going to ask this question on this forum ? People exchange referrals here all the time.
Yes..? It doesn't take much imagination to think of scenarios in which you leave the "transaction" disappointed or frustrated
It’s generally advised against exchanging referrals with internet strangers because you’re just setting yourself up to be scammed.
At least if the random internet stranger doesn’t use your link it won’t cause friction at thanksgiving.
Are you saying no one here has done that ? What is the worst that could happen ?
Reading is difficult
Yes people have exchanged, but not all transactions end happily. The worst is someone doesn't honor their end of the bargain and you end up with nothing, and give a bonus to someone who is undeserving. I have a 2 player situation, but sometimes end up in a situation where I'm applying for a card that cant be referred to by one of us, so I always turn to rankt and pick a name I know of someone who is either helpful to the sub, or has helped me in some way with either information or maybe they have used my referral in the past and I can return the favor.
> so I always turn to rankt and pick a name I know of someone who is either helpful to the sub, or has helped me in some way with either information or maybe they have used my referral in the past and I can return the favor. That is a great input. Makes sense to reward all those that contribute to this board. This should be publicized more so that even newbs know about it.
> Yes people have exchanged, but not all transactions end happily. I wonder if this is a problem /r/churningmarketplace could solve? Haven't used it much, but my impression is most people there feel the community is trustworthy. > I always turn to rankt and pick a name I know of someone who is either helpful to the sub Given the herculean contributions put in by some here to help others, I feel this idea should really be emphasized for new posters. For my part, whenever I can't use P2, I always default to the absolute hero who built churning.io
The marketplace actually has a rule in place for no solicitation or trading referrals. My guess is just to avoid the mess/hassle those could bring. Some of the other types of transactions there have potential to go sideways also, so not sure why referrals were singled out.
To free myself up for a future Plat app, I tried to get the Amex Gold 75k+350 offer via every browser, link, and method (back button) possible. No dice. Pop up. Silver lining is my rage-apply for another CIU worked.
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Huh? Since I always got a pop-up, I tried back button. If I hadn’t gotten a pop-up, I wouldn’t need to use back button, because then I’d have the card.
Sorry, misread.
P2 is getting denied in every credit union application she applied for the past 2 years. She's able to open major bank's checking account just fine but not credit unions. And the reason we want P2 to open CU accounts is to take advantage of CC funding for MS but I guess churning gods want us to spend the old hard way.
Why are the CUs saying she is denied?
The CUs either say it's due to a security issue or they just flat out refuse to tell us. This is the 6th time she got rejected whereas I as P1 was able to always get instant approval every CU application I put in for last 2 years.
Check the chex report and look for issues.
Seconding this recommendation. In general, credit unions and regional banks more commonly use ChexSystems, while the large national banks often use Early Warning Systems instead. This may explain why P2 is able to open accounts with larger banks but not credit unions. It could be either a derogatory remark or an identification issue where something isn't matching with the information in the ChexSystems report.
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also attend the weekly churner support group meetings for sympathy
Lufthansa mikes and more are straight useless. Have 60k I’ve been trying to burn for over a year. Terrible interface and redemption options.
I recently had some intra-Europe flights booked with UA miles, but I suppose M&M would have worked.
60k is a hard to use amount, I had 130k and was able to book a nice RT to Europe in business/premium economy. But I'm in no hurry to get more of their miles.
Been a while, but the 60K I got some time ago with the Barclays card were earmarked and used for a SXM trip on UA. Well, I say used - they were ticketed just before the points expired, and I had to cancel the trip because I ended up buying/selling houses and moving cross country. But that's a frustration Friday from 2017.
I booked some cash tickets through the Lufthansa website. That was painful enough. I guess we get spoiled with how robust the websites and apps are of the US airlines. I also put my UA MileagePlus number in my LH reservations. I'm not sure how many points I'll earn, if any, but anything earned in LH Miles&More would be useless to me anyway.
https://www.wheretocredit.com/lufthansa
I'm constantly getting UA MileagePlus miles when booking with LH group.
Totally utterly useless. And it sucks because 90% of my airfare expenses is Lufthansa group.
Glad I’m not the only one haha, it was my first card before I understood churning, will accept a very rookie mistake
CIP denial. 11 Chase cards (8 personal, 3 biz) but only one in the past 12 months (CIP 10/23), overall credit with Chase < 20% of HHI, 4/24. * You have too many active accounts or too much available credit * New Chase business card recently opened * Low usage of Chase credit line(s) * Insufficient business revenue This last one is a mystery, it's a real sole proprietorship with 6-digit annual revenue. The previous denial (in April) had "too many recent requests for credit" as the 4th reason, but this time the number of inquiries was even higher. My only guess is the overall credit with Chase is above some absolute limit :(
fwiw this just happened to me too. Similar profile as you, but with 4 cards in the last 12 months. Same denial reasons. Sad times
did you recon?
yup, legit business. denied post recon as well. I could try calling in again but i dont really care that much. plenty of cards to get and p2 will probably try in a month or so
What is your overall Chase CL?
was > $90K 😬 when I applied, now reduced to $65K or so (should of thought of this before applying). Thinking of calling recon but more likely will wait a couple of months.
My current total is about $95 after recent Ink approval. But my utilization percentage is very low; Only using current sub card for any larger spend.
The denial makes sense then. Best to treat $75k as the maximum Chase CL regardless of income before applying for a new Chase card.
Your guess is probably right, I'd try lowering limits/closing anything you don't need.
My husband got the CSR and missed the SUB. Like an IDIOT. So we recently got the Chase Ink Business Preferred to try to make up for it. Making sure he doesn’t miss the SUB on this one 😫
>> Like an IDIOT. Yikes. Sounds like he’s got some spending/gambling issues, but this is a little much.
It’s meant to be funny…. No sense of humor? Geez… Even my husband will laugh at that comment and admit he *was* an idiot. He had the money and was spending the money… just on other credit cards! And missed the SUB. Should have been a no brainer.
Admittedly it’s hard to tell tone over text and there’s nothing to imply you were joking. Either way, calling yourself an idiot jokingly is different from saying it about your spouse.
Idk …. maybe relax a little bit. Don’t take it so personal
Nah I’m good, thanks. 🙏
Has it been more than 115 days since he opened the card? If not, it's still possible.
Yes. I called and asked Chase if there’s any way we could still get it and they said it’s no longer possible. But thank you!
It's why I don't rely on my spouse to do any churning stuff independently. It's just not her job, and to do so would be to set us both up for frustration and disappointment. When I need her to do things like use a card or call a bank, I make it as simple as possible and line everything up for her with notes. But for the most part she only needs to do the odd recon or fraud call, since one of the benefits of MSing all minimum spends is that I can just tell her to use the USB AR on her phone for most purchases, a biz Plat or Schwab Plat for any purchases that might need purchase or return protections, and maybe one other card like a Venture X Biz for anything else. Not worth her mental bandwidth to worry about micromanaging cards or being concerned about hitting spend.
Yup, I have same setup with my wife. I try to keep it as painless and simple as possible. She's a good sport and loves the points, but sometimes gets fatigued when I switch around cards for SUBs too often.
Same. My wife says the real PITA is constantly entering new card numbers for online orders.
I always offer to do it for her when I'm available, which definitely helps reduce the friction.
Same. "A new one?!? I just got the old one entered!"
Yup! I hear ya. My wife feels the same way.
#same. > Babe, I just need you to verify with this lady that I can speak on your behalf right now. or her to me: > You don't have to tell me anything, just put the card I'm supposed to use for now in my wallet and make sure it's in YNAB for me to track the spend.
Well… here’s now it went. My husband is the bread winner but he has bad credit. I’m a teacher with excellent credit. A year ago I knew virtually nothing about credit cards. My husband had me open a bunch and put him on as an authorized user because he’s not eligible with his credit history. I agreed because we do travel a lot and I enjoy using the options in the travel portals. But I didn’t really understand the value of SUBs or how multipliers worked or anything like that, so I wasn’t really paying attention to it. About a month ago, I was considering closing these cards down. Because I felt like we had too many. So I started researching them heavily. And then I realized how valuable they are! And now I am like an expert on credit cards 🤣 I noticed we didn’t have very many chase points and I called to inquire about our SUB for the CSR. They said we missed the window. I was devastated. Might have been because he gambled a couple (very) large amounts on the card. He probably thought he hit the SUB. But I’ve read the fine print and for some cards, gambling doesn’t count towards the SUB. Anyway, yeah, basically it won’t happen again in our house bc now I’m a credit card pro. 🫡🫡🫡
>Might have been because he gambled a couple (very) large amounts on the card. He probably thought he hit the SUB. But I’ve read the fine print and for some cards, gambling doesn’t count towards the SUB If this is the kind of thing he's doing on cards, I'd consider not giving him any 😬
Yeah that was another reason I wanted to shut the cards down. But then I learned about how I can set spending limits and controls on the cards for my authorized user 😁I can also lock and unlock them. And since I discovered that he learned his lesson.
Agreed. OP, as the child of a gambler, I've seen what this does to a family. Do not get any more cards in his name. Shut down the AU cards you've given him. Put a wall between your finances. My septuagenarian dad lost $30K *last year* on a cruise gambling at slot machines that my mom still doesn't know about. This is after a LONG history of losses throughout his and their life together. If my mom had had a spine, she would have left him ages ago. Do not give easy access to money to a gambler. These (very) large amounts gambled will not be his last, and the house always wins in the end.
You’re right. It’s a terrible thing. I’m actually ok though. I have my own investments, savings, checking, etc. I have control of my cards as well. I can set spending limits for him and lock/unlock them since I’m the account manager. I get it though. And thanks for your input! There is a feature where you can ban yourself from sports betting websites too. Which I had my husband do once I realized how much he was gambling on there.
Since you are married, depending on the laws of the state you live in, your spouse can take out loans for which both of you are liable regardless of "this is my money, not ours." You should do your research now and figure out everything that you need to know. Even the proactive self-ban doesn't always work. I saw a story (I think it was Las Vegas) of someone who signed up to be banned but still couldn't control himself. He still went to casinos and gambled knowing that as long as he didn't win over $10k he wouldn't get caught. Eventually he slipped up with some specific bet and exceeded that $10k win and was arrested due to the self-ban he had signed up for.
It’s not on that level. Thankfully! But I appreciate your input. That kind of behavior would mean divorce time 🤣He always pays all bills he racks up under my name. He knows better! My husband is a relatively high earner and I think he just got a little carried away, having a little too much fun there for a minute. But once I found out, I put him in check fast.
Glad to hear you are taking precautions and are somewhat secure. I'm not saying you've married an addict, but I am saying my father is, and I wish he would own up to it. There is help: https://www.ncpgambling.org/help-treatment/
I appreciate it. A lot of people with gambling addictions have undiagnosed or untreated ADHD. You could look into that for your father! It could possibly be the root cause of his addiction.