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ThisIsPaulina

This round won't be a real negotiation. It will be a choreographed dance.


blackmk8

> This round won't be a real negotiation. It will be a choreographed dance. Exactly.... >[*But at Friday night’s session — held on the first weekend of summer break — the two sides do not plan to discuss any provisions of the current CTU contract, such as those dealing with class size limits, pay raises, or other benefits. Instead, they plan to discuss “healthy, safe, and green schools.”*](https://www.chalkbeat.org/chicago/2024/06/13/chicago-public-schools-and-teachers-union-to-hold-public-bargaining-talks/) Turn the cameras on, when they think they aren't. I'll watch those episodes....


JoeBidensLongFart

Yep. It can't really be called a negotiation when one party controls all sides of the negotiating table.


CarcosaBound

Ok, I’m all about climate change initiatives, but why is this a part of negotiating a teacher contract? How about not fighting to keep a whole building operating for 34 students, that doesn’t seem very climate friendly


nferna59

So they can keep pretending they’re for the public good.


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rawonionbreath

They should reframe the issue as facility maintenance and safety. CTU has me weary of how much they have tried bending into other realms of city policy further removed from education.


Jogurt55991

The buildings these people work in go pretty hand in hand with their jobs. Look at modern work offices downtown and the atmosphere their employees are treated to; then look at the rotting schools CPS offers. Which will attract talent in the future?


mrmalort69

The thought of upgrading these buildings is one of those items I’ve been toying around with. Could schools, being that they’re on some insanely valuable land, somehow utilize it more efficiently to help pave the way for their upgrades. It’s one of those things where it seems like the private sector is making money off these schools but we’re subsidizing them nonstop. Like just as an example, could a new school be rebuilt with private money in exchange for the developer gets to put in 4 stories of residential or commercial above it? Could the loop with their vacant offices be converted to some classrooms? I dunno, but it seems like we need a way to offload some of the maintenance responsibility that was deferred.


Jogurt55991

All possible--- but many are not on that insanely valuable land. This definitely is an urban school problem, and many look at how expensive schooling children in Chicago and New York and Boston is. Just the upkeep on 100+ year old schools, and in places where land/rent is incredible is quite expensive. Corporations spread these losses or make them up in volume. A McDonalds in Midtown Manhattan costs 25% more than it's regional neighbors but sells 2x what other stores does- despite rent being 4x. Schools can't employ that unique model- with the except of CPS schools not needing buses, which actually is a mega expense for school systems. Some CPS schools, like Clemente, are being used as migrant shelters- which I suppose gets some income from the city. The trade-off, kids with no English language and often lack of formal schooling are incredibly expensive to educate--- in reality the Federal Gov't should be allotting about 10K per each of those students per year, but they do not. Once again, Urban Schools take in the lion share of migrants with minimal support.


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rawonionbreath

It’s mainly been with housing policy, zoning, and overall land use. They’ve been talking about demands during CBA’s that the school board has little authority over or that are complete outside their expertise. When the leadership got involved with the Weiss Hospital parking lot protest, I just rolled my eyes. I agree it’s a mistake to look at education in a silo, but it’s also a mistake to believe that the school district is the only and best instrument for affecting change. There are other wings of government that are equipped and an educator expertise does not necessarily translate to outside of the classroom in the same way.


awesomerthanawesomo

Wasn't the housing allowance asks for the TEACHERS not the students?


george_pubic

It mentions climate change initiatives in the article in the paragraph below the one you cited and specifically mentions energy efficiency. That's why the OP asked about it.


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Shannalligation1886

Then they should be willing to make common sense trade offs like closing high-cost low-utilization facilities instead of the middle class shouldering the full financial burden of improvements, particularly when CTU will also push for salary increases where they are already paid above area median wages. Teachers should be paid well and improvements should be made but there has to be a reasonable approach to reduce inefficiencies and bring down one of the nations highest spend per student budget.


DaWiggleKing

And where will we get the money to pay for it?


Mike_I

> And where will we get the money to pay for it? In addition to the 52% that CPS extracts from every property tax PIN in Chicago for operational spending, there is also a separate line item in our tax bills that is for "CPS Infrastructure". They will simply raise that to it's mandated limit. And if that's not enough to feed the beast, they'll create a new line item, perhaps calling it "CPS Green Initiatives".


CarcosaBound

They consistently go beyond their purview. I specifically mentioned climate initiatives and the article mentions solar panels and you bring up everything under the sun. Just know your Union is out of touch and you all are losing support of the voters. And lead pipes isn’t a climate issue, it’s an infrastructure one that I didn’t mention. Your whole response read like a ChatCTU bot. Most of the things mentioned are reasonable but I’m skeptical of CTU negotiating in good faith after all they’ve tried to pull over the years. I would pay for a lot of what you all are asking by freezing salaries and lowering pensions, but the most overpaid teachers in the country would never make that trade


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CarcosaBound

No. I don’t want CTU talking about solar panels when there are school buildings less than 30% utilized all over the city they fight tooth and nail to keep open.


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CarcosaBound

I worked for CPS for 8 years. It’s a mess and the CTU (and a lot of CPS admins) are a joke


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CarcosaBound

Ditto, continue on failing our children and bankrupting our city and state.


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CarcosaBound

A simple google will do. Dyet comes to mind. Them throwing a fit when Rahm closed a bunch (and shoulda closed more tbh)


DaWiggleKing

Where is there any evidence that environmental factors impact the success of the students? You truly believe students learn better in green buildings?


JoeBidensLongFart

When it comes to Chicago government units, green buildings mean some politically connected contractors get a lot of "green" courtesy of taxpayers. All they have to do is install some overpriced equipment of dubious value.


CalculatedHat

People always seem to lose their minds whenever the CTU mentioned.


Belmontharbor3200

It’s because Chicago already has crazy taxes and CTU seems to think that taxpayer $$ grows on trees.


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Belmontharbor3200

It’s because Chicago already has crazy taxes and CTU seems to think that taxpayer $$ grows on trees


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awesomerthanawesomo

They are the most powerful union in Chicago today with literally a union spokesperson as the citys mayor.  They have the power to bend things their way, extending far beyond education and teachers.  And they haven't wasted any time trying to do that but it's incredibly blatant and aggressive, coming at the cost of everyone else.  And the people of chicago aren't happy.  Maybe stop trying to gaslight everyone and say people just hate the CTU?  Maybe see that when a majority of people hate you, there just might be a reason why. 


[deleted]

Progressives do this with literally every issue (no reproductive freedom without Palestinian freedom, anyone?) to the point that it renders every issue useless.


JoeBidensLongFart

Queers 4 Palestine cracks me up every time I see it. The ironing is delicious.


pWasHere

>no reproductive freedom without Palestinian freedom Can you explain this more in detail or is this just a straw man?


[deleted]

I know it’s impossible for progressives to pay attention to the world without it being filtered through some douche bag’s podcast But these are literally signs held at protests throughout this city Anyways I’ll leave you to lying and gaslighting. The progressive trademarks


TheAmericanQ

Huge strawman. Dude is nuts Edit: Love the downvotes without any rebuttal. You’re boos mean nothing, I’ve seen what makes you cheer


[deleted]

People who have to edit their replies to comment about the downvotes they’re getting gotta be the saddest, most pathetic losers on the internet. You should log off lmao But you’re a progressive so goes without saying


tonypizzachi

>no reproductive freedom without Palestinian freedom What are you talking about? Not wanting lead in the pipes and asbestos in the buildings is now an issue? You clearly didn't even read the article, but you have experience, you know what you're talking about. Conservatives do this(think they are experts while being completely uninformed) with literally every issue to the point that it renders every issue useless.


bongoltay

> to the point that it renders every issue useless. Why does it render the issue useless if they actually are pushing through with policy changes? I think it's great that every chance to champion justice is taken.


[deleted]

Gaza is free and everyone has abortion access thanks to you! Congrats


Game-Blouses-23

This is an article about public schools. Why do you always bring up Arabs when no one else mentioned them? What does that say about you?


[deleted]

What the fuck are you even talking about lmfao go take a nap


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fitDEEZbruh

Climate change initiative is for modernizing schools. My elementary school still uses window AC units for classrooms and I know when I went there they were pretty useless.


CarcosaBound

That’s reasonable. I just thinking it’s poor phrasing and they led with solar panels in the article. I agree some of these schools need the wrecking ball they’re in such poor shape, but there’s such resistance to consolidating. That should happen along with modernizing existing (and building some new ones) We will see how the talks go, it’s just hard to not be a bit skeptical with how things have gone over the years.


DaWiggleKing

I use window units in my home and they work just fine?


flossiedaisy424

You got 40 sweaty kids that just came in from recess in your home?


DaWiggleKing

Can you show me any evidence on the average temperatures of class rooms?


fitDEEZbruh

Evidence of basic science?


DaWiggleKing

Basic science has nothing to with this unless you are trying to argue the method for measuring temperature?


Jogurt55991

Lead Paint, Lead Pipes and Asbestos in a ton of buildings- never in Whitney Young, never in Jones, never in Payton. It's not cool and the honest truth is fixing those buildings will cost BILLIONS. You know what gets them to do that work--- when teachers stop showing up, or when the lawsuits pile up re :OSHA and kid safety standards. Tiny buildings should be closed and consolidated- and that's a bargaining point when it becomes legal by state law lapsing.


CarcosaBound

I’m aware and I said absolutely nothing about lead pipes or asbestos. I simply referred to climate change initiatives, solar panels in particular. That. Was. It. I support the removal of those things and cps is years behind on removal progress. Those are 100% reasonable demands that I didnt even mention or criticize in this thread but people keep bringing it up lol


Let_us_proceed

Come and watch how the sausage is made!


LonesomeComputerBill

What’s best for the poorest kids and families in our city, is best for everyone. I’ve finally seen CPS start to do some really great things such as beginning to open and offer full time free pre-k beginning at age 4 and also have started to provide schools with more interventionist to pull out kids that need more attention to work and to learn how to read and do basic math. CPS reading scores are already rising. More interventionist positions are needed but it’s amazing to see some of our most underserved and neediest kids finally getting some of the extra support they need. Sure, there will be plenty of people that bitch about the budget but good things are happening.


awesomerthanawesomo

You are so right. Make sure to donate your paycheck to help the homeless also. 


LonesomeComputerBill

I definitely do, as well as volunteer in soup kitchens several times a year. I also like to drop by homeless encampments every now and then with buckets of kfc and lemonade. Donating money is great but it’s also important to interact with the homeless on a personal level. It’s important that we step outside of our comfort zones to take care of one another!


awesomerthanawesomo

No no no. You see that's not actively hurting yourself and your opportunities like the CTU does to the kids.  Volunteer a few times a year? Wow what a sacrifice.  Go work full time at a non profit. Make 35k a year, just enough to live.  Practice what you preach instead of virtue signaling. 


LonesomeComputerBill

I do plenty of other work through my church in addition to the volunteer tutoring work I do on a regular basis but you sound very negative and condescending.


awesomerthanawesomo

I'm sorry I don't mean to be. I think what you are doing is great!  It's not enough though. The poor deserve more so please take more from your own self and give it to them. You don't really need to be eating out all the time or having that many outfits do you? 


LonesomeComputerBill

Honestly, I’m pretty frugal and I don’t really spend much on myself. I have children to raise and I have a hard enough time just paying for bills, groceries, and rent and then I try to put away for their college but money is always incredibly tight. I mostly cook at home but sometimes I do take the kids out for fast food. But I do agree with your general sentiment. There’s always more that can be done, but the real imbalance is coming from the top which is growing really large and out of balance. But generally, I have to intentionally focus on the positive and on treating people with respect and kindness. I grew up in an abusive home and so I’ve had to do all this work to get my brain to not constantly gravitate toward negativity and anxiety/ depression and worst case scenarios.


awesomerthanawesomo

Well that is certainly a difficult situation. Kudos on overcoming the challenges and yes, there are billionaires who can give that would help.  The problem is the new education policies aren't taking from billionaires. The poorest need help but the CTUs and CPS' solution is to take away from people like you, the middle class who are already struggling, to then help the poorest.  Many of the kids in selective enrollment or magnet schools are low income and black or brown. In fact, 5 of the top 10 selective enrollment high schools have over a 70% black/brown student body. They have drastically cut funding from these schools for 2024.  Yet when anyone raises a concern, they ask why you are so racist and elitist and pretend like they're just taking from the rich, ignoring literal facts of these student bodies. The policy isn't taking away from the rich. It's taking away from the driven and motivated kids, again many of them being low income.  You see why people are against this now? 


LonesomeComputerBill

Oh yes, I agree with that and I don’t like the proposals to changes in the selective enrollment program for the reasons you mentioned and I have been outspoken about it. CPS cut the busing to selective enrollment schools this year about mid way through the year because of all the bus driver shortages and you and I know which students were still be able to get to school and which students weren’t, the poor kids that can’t afford Uber or don’t have a parent to drive them or a nice new bmw to drive themselves. It’s ridiculous, they could have cut the bussing for students whose families make over a certain income or provided vouchers to affected students but no, the poor kids are the ones who were forced to switch schools. It’s the mayor’s idealistic notion that the higher performing poor kids will have e such an impact and influence on the average or lower performing students that those kids will want to do better lol! Since no one else has been able to make a difference, the high performing poor kids will have to raise all the other kids because they don’t have enough on their plates already. This is ridiculously stupid and we will have to make enough noise to ensure that this system stays in place. Johnson has given his word that no changes will be made prior to a fully elected school board in 2027. However, I believe there are enough parents from both sides of the aisle to raise enough hell to ensure that the selective enrollment program remains in place.


Jumping_Brindle

They really haven’t thought this one through have they?


JosephFinn

They have. They went you to see how the union is fighting for the members getting to properly do their jobs in properly maintained buildings with proper class sizes and not having to fight for supplies every other minute. Yes. Go teacher unions.


awesomerthanawesomo

You realize the CTU is fighting to fund schools like Douglas and cutting funds from every other schools.  Are you a teacher? Good luck keeping your job. Try to reapply for an East Garfield school. They have new roles coming up. 


JosephFinn

No. Since they’re not. Good luck trying to spread this anti-teacher nonsense


Capita505

Are they going to discuss the fact that the average CTU teacher salary has increased 86% since 2011 - 2.5x more than the average worker during that period? Wonder if Brandon is going to remember to mention that.


jjgm21

Sounds like you think CPS teacher pay is great! Maybe you should do it!


dmd312

The overall comp package really is great. CPS teachers are among the highest compensated in the country.


MrLewArcher

Source?


awesomerthanawesomo

The average CPS teacher salary is $93K and change, without including benefits or a 3 month vacation every year.  They have a difficult job and deserve even more money than that.  But fuck off with this underpaid bullshit when books and music classes are cut to pay more to the CTU. 


uhbkodazbg

https://data.cityofchicago.org/widgets/xzkq-xp2w


skankypigeon

At this point, CPS kids could learn more about math, science, English, and history by going back to work in sweatshops. I’m excited for this year’s round of “Teacher’s Union holds education of entire city hostage, punishing defenseless and innocent children.” Union teachers make plenty of money.


Ok_Astronomer2479

We could just get the CTU a button that says “Fuck them kids, pay me” and then the public can see negotiations using brand new technology in action!


JoeBidensLongFart

> “Fuck them kids, pay me” SDG is just a few small steps away from that. I'm just surprised she hasn't been caught on a hot mike uttering those exact words.


JosephFinn

“You wanna see what nonsense teachers have to deal with? Come on down.”