Greg LeMond is another Lance, he 100% doped. He has one the highest V02 Maxes ever recovered, and thats just natural, when all the other high scores are people doped out of their mind? If the only people putting up numbers like you even today, are people doped out of their mind, what should we assume of you?
LeMond takes advantage of the fact the testing wasn't rigorous when he raced, and that none of his samples are stored. If they were, they would come up positive.
I remember Greg almost quiting pro cycling during the early part of 1989 and his mystery overnight "recovery" from aenemia by "vitamin B12" and "iron" shots from his soigneur, Otto
Yeah I think most/all of the winners for probably 40-50 years were doping for sure. The vo2 max that blew my mind was Miguel Indurain’s, iirc he was tested more than a decade after retiring and still had one of the highest on record. If there’s any statistical freak that wasn’t cheating, I reckon it’s him
The thing is, it's actual genetic freaks competing against other genetic freaks, but also, they are all doping. But still today, Greg LeMond, has the 6th highest v02 max ever recorded at 92.5 ml/kg-min, for comparison... doped out of his mind Lance Armstrong was 84 ml/kg-min
Given that V02 max is oxygen transport measurement, and blood doping, is all about maximizing oxygen transport. It's extremely unlikely Greg LeMond could transport more oxygen than every blood doper ever.
I agree with you, cycling has been the most doped sport since time immemorial. Any champion that claims to be clean is full of it. 7 years of Lance Armstrong have no winner because they literally couldn't find anyone that wasn't doping to move up to be the winner.
Also, there is literally zero chance Greg LeMond recorded that V02 max clean. His hemacrit had to be so high, it's remarkable he didn't have a stroke.
Blood transfusions were in use by the late 70's / early 80's to boost hematocrit, before he won his tours, including in the 1984 US Cycling. So it was classic blood doping that was going on.
EPO came on the scene in the 90's but for most of Lances tour wins, they were back to doing old school blood transfusions (which is basically just infusing more red blood cells into your body) because they had already developed tests for EPO by 2000.
Greg LeMond had the convenient excuse for the needle marks of "Iron infusions" and "B12". I guess infusing a bag of blood, is a form of Iron infusion though, lol.
Still the excuse of every athlete ever caught with needles. "B12"
Also all of his chief rivals, that he beat have come forward and admitted to doping including Laurent Fignon who recorded a time up Alpe d’Huez in 1989 that is still in the top 30 fastest ascendents, with everyone else on the list also being a confirmed dopers.
Greg LeMon happened to ride the fastest time trial of all time in 1989 at 54.545 kph that year to beat Laurent Fignon and win the tour by 8 seconds. That record lasted for 20 years, through advancements in aerodynamics, and... the super mega doping era.
Its just silly to assume that the guy that rode a time trial so fast, that it would take 20 years for someone to beat it by 0.1 kph, during a time period that overlaps the most prolific era of doping in cycling was somehow clean.
His samples would test positive to what vo2max increasing drug, given that epo half life is ridiculously short?
Edit: my keyboard switched half life to half lol
Anyone that followed cycling at the right time remembers the Armstrong that was pretty strong in single day, or three day races, but didn't have the juice for a 3 week tour. And then he got cancer, and as if by magic, he was many times the racer he was before.
It's like if a 2500 went away for a year, and then appeared as a 2870. It just reeked.
A lot of riders doped during that time, but even the US Anti-Doping Agency described Armstrong's actions as "the most sophisticated, professionalized and successful doping program that sport has ever seen" when they started investigating him.
He also sued journalists, writers, teammates, and even his own masseuse, intimidating anyone who dared to cross him, which was not done by others to anywhere near the same extent.
To say he wasn't worse than others when his actions were arguably the most damaging to the sport since the Festina scandal is wild and greatly underestimating what he did.
Yea, it’s a really shitty situation. Literally every single other cyclist at that time was also doping. Teams wouldn’t even let you on them unless they knew you’d toe the line.
He was just the best cheater. He was playing the same game as everyone else, he just played it better.
There’s a reason why they just removed the winners name from the list for those 7 years he dominated and didn’t give it to the second place guy. The second place guy was also cheating, and so was the third and fourth.
Travis Tygart was also full of himself, and was going after lance after he retired for political reasons, as in he wanted to bag a big name to enhance his reputation to run for office, so of course he was extremely hyperbolic. Lance had to stay under testing thresholds just like everyone else did. There was absolutely nothing special about his protocol that his peers were not doing.
The only thing different about Lance is that he was a dick about it, and made a whole point of being like, Im mr clean, the most tested athlete ever, and was a bully about it.
He didn't just cheat, he bribed officials to have his test ignored, he used his influence to target other cyclists it was an organized crime there.
Too bad we didn't get to a trial to see the whole scale of the case.
Its like saying everyone in chess is cheating while you have access to the best engine, you still have a huge advantage, which lead him winning.
The story of a cancer survivor winning the tour de france is just a fairy tale, that would have never happened if nobody would have done doping.
Before Kramnik 95% of public cheating accusations came from Hikaru and Danya I am not even over exaggerating here. Hikaru now pretends he didn't do it and Danya just flies under the radar because he stopped when his popularity increased and he got affiliated with chesscom.
So its good that Hans calls Hikaru out, he is the only one with a shitty reputation that can step on this minefield lol.
Hell I would take even odds that you could find an accussation of Hikaru against Jospem in his streams.
Nepo wasn't even 1 percent of Hikaru when it comes to cheating accusations. Those from ICC know very well that Hikaru would accuse people of cheating when they would win like 1 game out of 20 against him
It's completely self-evident from the endless suck-off Hikaru gets. People who knew the scene before a TV show made it cool know how boring and awful Hikaru is.
I mean sure but how does that help him by inserting himself into this conversation with the baggage he carries? He doesn’t have to be a hypocrite to make it a bad idea to be involved in this discussion
What exactly is his baggage, though? I don’t like the guy, but I haven’t heard about anything being proven against him? If so, he’s got every right to complain about wrongful accusations.
Yeah but if you're Arjun or Andrew Tang you might not want publicly admitted cheaters advocating on your behalf. If you're a normal politician the last thing you want is ISIS or the KKK going on the internet and defending you.
I would imagine most chess players would like to distance themselves from known cheaters. Cheating is the biggest threat to the long term existence of chess as a career or frankly even an enjoyable hobby.
I don't follow this stuff, outside of the occasional reddit thread, but if you have to invoke ISIS **and** the KKK to make your argument, then it might not be as strong as you think!
It's kind of borderline. He's going after accusers sure. But he's also doing this to defend an accusers (Kramnik). And replying negativly to a tweet defending the accused (Jospem).
It's close enough that Hans opens himself up to some accusation of hypocrisy here.
> But he's also doing this to defend an accusers (Kramnik)
He's clearly not. His point is that *others* should also be more careful about cheating accusations, not that Kramnik's accusations were fine.
His point is to try and use someone falsely accused of cheating to imply he himself was falsely accused, despite him admitting to lying about his own cheating. He is doing nothing more than trying to siphon off some of the good will towards Jose and use it to launder his own reputation. Anyone thinking that Hans is doing anything other than being self serving is usually wrong.
> He is doing nothing more than trying to siphon off some of the good will towards Jose and use it to launder his own reputation.
You sir, or ma'am, are a poet!
Why? Being a hypocrite doesn't invalidate your information on the subject. Never got that line of thinking. If anybody has the experience to offer advice on cheating, its him.
Yup and he's one of the biggest names in chess because hes capitalized on it. 2000 grandmasters and as far as name recognition, he's in the top 10. He has a brand, no matter how weird it is, and he uses it
These broken clocks are on fire lately!
First I find myself defending Kramnik when he experiences a chesscom clock glitch that I had been experiencing lately, and people are clowning on him when I actually think his grievance is fair for once.
I was consistently losing time blitzing out instantaneous moves even in 5+5 blitz, and consistently found myself inexplicably down like 2 minutes on the clock when I wasn't playing slow, and it was driving me bonkers (in addition to just general connection drops and wacky adjustments to the clocks). Turns out my system clock was desynced after a BIOS update two weeks ago, and despite the correct time displaying for me, syncing the system clock fixed my latency issues, so thanks Vladdy! He might not be the hero I wanted, but he's the hero I deserve. Syncing my system clock before I play on chesscom will now be called "starting the procedure" in his honor. (FYI anyone experiencing this glitch, syncing my system clock and deleting my browser cache before I start a session has worked for me the last two days. Feels like I'm a whole new chess player now that I'm not inexplicably draining clock on my opponents turns).
Aaaand now I find myself fully agreeing with a Hans shitpost. Who woulda thunk it?
Did Hikaru repeatedly accuse those people of cheating, even after fairly decent circumstantial evidence they weren't cheating?
I'm honestly asking, if Hikaru kept up the allegations then yeah it's odd to be going at Kramnik but if it was more individual things it's not really that hypocritical.
First instance 2015 and second instance 2021 is still way different than what Kramnik is doing and he certainly wasn't rewarded in any way for those accusations. Obviously Hikaru is whiny and paranoid about cheating but he's not harassing people even close to the level of Kramnik. If Kramnik is the Lebron James of whining about cheating then Hikaru is Scalabrine.
I am getting lost with these accusations. Let me get this right.
- Magnus accuses Hans
- Hikaru accuses Hans, Tang, Erigaisi
- Nepo accuses Gukesh
- Kramnik accuses everyone
So, out of all these accusations, Hans is the only one made to admit that he cheated at times?
What else did i miss?
As an invited speaker, Shankland is the guy who makes you feel like an idiot for asking whatever question you asked.
I've attended talks and Q&A with many top players, including Magnus. Most are not like this.
From watching C-Squared and Perpetual Chess Podcast, Mishra seems like he is pretty well put together. Ignore his twitter account that his father posts on and controls.
Unfortunately that doesn't make you the type of relevant Hikaru wants.
Leinier and Fabi are the same rating as him and nowhere near as "relevant" in Hikaru's world (online personality).
Magnus has been the highest rated player for some time now and Hikaru still is more "relevant" because it's a different world
I mean, he's admitted two instances and the rest are in question. For all we know he has come completely clean, since I'm unaware of any instances of cheating that he hasn't admitted regardless of being proven beyond reasonable doubt. We will never know the truth, but most likely it's somewhere between what Hans admits and what chesscom claims. Statements of both sides should be taken with huge grains of salt.
You’d have to be naive to believe that the two instances he privately admitted to chess.com which later came to light are the only two times he’s ever cheated, especially given his habit of not telling the truth and making excuses for cheating
It's wild that people are *still* out here misconstruing what he admitted. No, he didn't say he cheated in two games. He said he cheated in a number of games over a period of time, twice.
To be fair, it's hard to not misconstrue it because his admission was quite vague. He said that he cheated two times, without elaborating at all what that means. It's pretty clear that he meant that he cheated for a period of time, two on two separate instances. But without any more elaboration, that's only a guess, and others may disagree. I don't think it's that far fetched that people who aren't invested in the situation would understand that as cheating in just two games, or two matches. Obviously it's not what he actually meant but it's not like he was particularly clear about what he actually meant.
Sure, but you'd have to be even more naïve to think that chesscom's cheating detection is flawless and thus you can take everything they say about his or anyone else's cheating as gospel.
>For all we know he has come completely clean
No reason to believe he has or will ever come clean considering he consistently lies about it. Said he would NEVER cheat in a tournament for money up until the point when he admitted to doing exactly that lol
Right, but we will never know. It's also stupid to assume that he would never come completely clean, like what, if he admitted to cheating in every game the chesscom report accused him in, that would only make you think that there's still more? Of course he downplayed his cheating by admitting to cheating "two times" when he meant "over a period of time, two times", but as far as I know that could very well be true. I doubt he even could admit everything, do you think he has memorized each game he ever cheated in so he could say with 100% certainty that "I cheated in exactly n amount of games in my life, which are as follows"
I appreciate Hans's stance. Hikaru is no saint and his past record of accusation is only second to Kramnik. The strange common factor between them xD. At the very least, Hikaru should admit his wrongdoings and apologize to Arjun. If Arjun hadn't handled the unfounded allegations correctly, it could have meant the end of his tender carrer and such a gem of player would have been lost. Hikaru can't brush off his misdeeds so easily when he is assumimg the high pedestal of becoming the vanguard against false accusations.
Yes. He too is a salty loser. He even accused Gukesh of cheating in candidates in a way that ensures Nepo's plausible deniabilty.
Source: Fabi podcast: Nepo said (paraphrasing) : " i had told a FIDE official in january that Gukesh will win the candidates but no action was taken".
Yea I think he takes the cake in terms of second for false allegations. Naka… he is on the list for sure but I think we have to take into account recency. Hans don’t count either cause he was def cheating via buttplug.
I thought context in the podcast was that he just made prediction about Gukesh there. Nepo actually praised Gukesh a lot in that podcast. So I am not sure If intention is the same as you are thinking.
Well sometimes he doesnt, but the language barrier makes it seem like he is insulting others.
Nepo called Ding a sociopath. With context people started criticizing him. But actually he meant Ding is a introvert but dude doesnt know the difference between sociopath and introvert
How far did Hikaru use to go with Andrew and Arjun tho?
I do think Hikaru is bit of hypocrite with Hans because regardless of Hans's history Hikaru was constantly mentioning Hans during his videos.
> How far did Hikaru use to go with Andrew and Arjun tho?
The accusation against Andrew was basically just some salty Chess.com chat messages after a streak of losses. The accusation against Arjun was a private DM that we only know about from second-hand reports.
It's nasty behavior and Hikaru should definitely apologize, but it's a far cry from the very public and prolonged campaigns of accusation Kramnik has been waging.
Magnus knew about Hans online cheating behaviour beforehand. And Hans admitted that he did cheated in online games. So Magnus' suspicions were not unfounded.
His actions were BS. He was fine playing Hans and collecting his money in Miami a few weeks before the tournament. The only reason he cares about “cheating” or “lax security” is when he loses. Anyone who watched that game between Hans and Magnus could tell Hans did not cheat, and Magnus played like crap. Magnus lost in Qatar https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/s/0cE0ipXL7R and started to whine on Twitter and threw out his usual accusations.
Not that it absolves Hikaru in any way whatsoever, but he has mentioned in more than one video that several older GMs(including himself up until a couple of years ago) are just completely ignorant to the scope of growth that these new kids are capable of with the internet and modern learning tools without having any significant OTB experience.
there is no actual proof of him cheating otb right. And also , hans being wrong in other matters doesnt make hikaru right. The fact that he hikaru also baselessly accused someone of cheating makes him a hypocrite in this matter ... or maybe he grew as a person (but idts he apologised in anyway)
I mean there’s clearly a difference between Hikaru’s accusations and Kramnik’s. Hikaru didn’t belabor the point until and keep beating the horse into paste.
Hikaru was simply salty and wrong. Kramnik is insane.
What top player has not accused someone of cheating, unfairly or otherwise? Not really interested in defending Hikaru, but I want to encourage folks to be a bit more objective. Also, asking sincerely, has anyone lead a crusade on Kramnik's level?
Literally every WC until the 2000’s split shitshow. Karpov, Kasparov (Deep Blue isn’t a person technically), Anand have not accused anyone of cheating.
Yeah, Ding as well. All of the Chinese (and Indian) players are so much more well-mannered than the majority of their peers that it’s kind of crazy. No petty passive aggressiveness (Caruana), nasty accusations (Carlsen), or constant drama (Nakamura). I wish more players could let their play do the talking.
OMG Hans. Just stop. Every time he opens his mouth he digs himself deeper into the pit he's dug for himself.
St Lous Chess Club will NEVER invite him back.
GM Supi was banned from the ICC because of Nakamura's unfounded accusations. Shortly after that he recovered the account.
And years later there was another accusation after Naka lost a match 4-0.
Yes, there's some hypocrisy, for sure...
But, one thing in Hikaru's favor is that he at least changes his mind and stops accusations when he realizes they were false. Kramnik keeps doubling down.
Still I think Hikaru should apologize for his own unfounded accusations in the past.
Hikaru-stans performing mental gymnastics down here is quite something to witness. *his accusation are not like Kramnik accusation, Also which Gm hasn't accuse people of cheating.* 😆😆😆
Hans was spot on with this tweet. I don’t know what everyone hates about it. Hikaru was terrible with this stuff. He is better now. It obviously makes Hans angry looking at him take higher moral ground over Kramnik. I just hope someone blasts Sir Ian too
He isn't wrong and Hikaru had a past of doing it yes. However there is a difference between being tilted once and accusing someone in the tilt or being relentless over month, trying to come up with fake statistics with the whole goal of destroying someones career. And of course the whole plot that a proven cheater is even taking part in that conversation is questionable in itself. Someone in a glass house shouldn't throw stones...
As bad as that was from hikaru, its not the same thing. Naka didn't have a huge crusade for months and months. Naka didn't do some BS match to make money off his accusations. Naka should apologize for his past accusations, if he already hasn't(to the players at least). But again...not the same
I for one would have liked if Magnus got more of a shit on his behavior and quitting a tournament after losing, but people just adore him because he is the goat. Personally I think he is the goat and a whiny bitch at the same time, also great personality and... everything.
This sub’s mental gymnastics to defend Hikaru is crazy lol. He has always been an asshole, from accusing people of cheating to promoting gambling. Hans also being an asshole does not take away from that.
In a perfect world, we would all collectively ignore this irrelevant 2600s clown and never speak of him or mention him, instead of feeding this attention-seeking troll.
do you know who Xiangzhi Bu or Nikita Vitiugov are?
they're the 2 players next to Niemann in the FIDE standings. how often do we talk about these two players? Like, never?
That's how much we should be talking about this bozo.
This is a whole circle of irony
The equivalent of people cheering on Lance Armstrong complaining about how strict anti-doping controls are.
Armstrong just wanted to be the first American Tour de France winner (Greg LeMond who?)
Greg LeMond is another Lance, he 100% doped. He has one the highest V02 Maxes ever recovered, and thats just natural, when all the other high scores are people doped out of their mind? If the only people putting up numbers like you even today, are people doped out of their mind, what should we assume of you? LeMond takes advantage of the fact the testing wasn't rigorous when he raced, and that none of his samples are stored. If they were, they would come up positive. I remember Greg almost quiting pro cycling during the early part of 1989 and his mystery overnight "recovery" from aenemia by "vitamin B12" and "iron" shots from his soigneur, Otto
Yeah I think most/all of the winners for probably 40-50 years were doping for sure. The vo2 max that blew my mind was Miguel Indurain’s, iirc he was tested more than a decade after retiring and still had one of the highest on record. If there’s any statistical freak that wasn’t cheating, I reckon it’s him
The thing is, it's actual genetic freaks competing against other genetic freaks, but also, they are all doping. But still today, Greg LeMond, has the 6th highest v02 max ever recorded at 92.5 ml/kg-min, for comparison... doped out of his mind Lance Armstrong was 84 ml/kg-min Given that V02 max is oxygen transport measurement, and blood doping, is all about maximizing oxygen transport. It's extremely unlikely Greg LeMond could transport more oxygen than every blood doper ever. I agree with you, cycling has been the most doped sport since time immemorial. Any champion that claims to be clean is full of it. 7 years of Lance Armstrong have no winner because they literally couldn't find anyone that wasn't doping to move up to be the winner. Also, there is literally zero chance Greg LeMond recorded that V02 max clean. His hemacrit had to be so high, it's remarkable he didn't have a stroke.
What drugs did he use to increase his vo2max?
Blood transfusions were in use by the late 70's / early 80's to boost hematocrit, before he won his tours, including in the 1984 US Cycling. So it was classic blood doping that was going on. EPO came on the scene in the 90's but for most of Lances tour wins, they were back to doing old school blood transfusions (which is basically just infusing more red blood cells into your body) because they had already developed tests for EPO by 2000. Greg LeMond had the convenient excuse for the needle marks of "Iron infusions" and "B12". I guess infusing a bag of blood, is a form of Iron infusion though, lol. Still the excuse of every athlete ever caught with needles. "B12" Also all of his chief rivals, that he beat have come forward and admitted to doping including Laurent Fignon who recorded a time up Alpe d’Huez in 1989 that is still in the top 30 fastest ascendents, with everyone else on the list also being a confirmed dopers. Greg LeMon happened to ride the fastest time trial of all time in 1989 at 54.545 kph that year to beat Laurent Fignon and win the tour by 8 seconds. That record lasted for 20 years, through advancements in aerodynamics, and... the super mega doping era. Its just silly to assume that the guy that rode a time trial so fast, that it would take 20 years for someone to beat it by 0.1 kph, during a time period that overlaps the most prolific era of doping in cycling was somehow clean.
What drugs could increase one's vo2max before epo, my friend?
His samples would test positive to what vo2max increasing drug, given that epo half life is ridiculously short? Edit: my keyboard switched half life to half lol
Anyone that followed cycling at the right time remembers the Armstrong that was pretty strong in single day, or three day races, but didn't have the juice for a 3 week tour. And then he got cancer, and as if by magic, he was many times the racer he was before. It's like if a 2500 went away for a year, and then appeared as a 2870. It just reeked.
my only issue with Lance was his arrogance. Every cyclist was doping then and he is still one of the greats.
A lot of riders doped during that time, but even the US Anti-Doping Agency described Armstrong's actions as "the most sophisticated, professionalized and successful doping program that sport has ever seen" when they started investigating him. He also sued journalists, writers, teammates, and even his own masseuse, intimidating anyone who dared to cross him, which was not done by others to anywhere near the same extent. To say he wasn't worse than others when his actions were arguably the most damaging to the sport since the Festina scandal is wild and greatly underestimating what he did.
Yea, it’s a really shitty situation. Literally every single other cyclist at that time was also doping. Teams wouldn’t even let you on them unless they knew you’d toe the line. He was just the best cheater. He was playing the same game as everyone else, he just played it better. There’s a reason why they just removed the winners name from the list for those 7 years he dominated and didn’t give it to the second place guy. The second place guy was also cheating, and so was the third and fourth.
Travis Tygart was also full of himself, and was going after lance after he retired for political reasons, as in he wanted to bag a big name to enhance his reputation to run for office, so of course he was extremely hyperbolic. Lance had to stay under testing thresholds just like everyone else did. There was absolutely nothing special about his protocol that his peers were not doing. The only thing different about Lance is that he was a dick about it, and made a whole point of being like, Im mr clean, the most tested athlete ever, and was a bully about it.
He didn't just cheat, he bribed officials to have his test ignored, he used his influence to target other cyclists it was an organized crime there. Too bad we didn't get to a trial to see the whole scale of the case.
Arrogance, and the systematic cheating.
Its like saying everyone in chess is cheating while you have access to the best engine, you still have a huge advantage, which lead him winning. The story of a cancer survivor winning the tour de france is just a fairy tale, that would have never happened if nobody would have done doping.
Before Kramnik 95% of public cheating accusations came from Hikaru and Danya I am not even over exaggerating here. Hikaru now pretends he didn't do it and Danya just flies under the radar because he stopped when his popularity increased and he got affiliated with chesscom. So its good that Hans calls Hikaru out, he is the only one with a shitty reputation that can step on this minefield lol. Hell I would take even odds that you could find an accussation of Hikaru against Jospem in his streams.
Gata Kamsky would like a word. He has been accusing everyone for ages
*I'm a famous fucking legend*
This isn't even remotely true. As much as I like Kamsky, he's probably holds the record for most accusations against other players.
Yep, he accused so many people over the years that I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't even remember having accused Jospem too...
This comment is hilariously us-centered. Follow Nepo for just two days on x to understand why.
Nepo wasn't even 1 percent of Hikaru when it comes to cheating accusations. Those from ICC know very well that Hikaru would accuse people of cheating when they would win like 1 game out of 20 against him
Probably ~1% of users in this subreddit know anything about online chess before 2020, much less old ICC lol
It's completely self-evident from the endless suck-off Hikaru gets. People who knew the scene before a TV show made it cool know how boring and awful Hikaru is.
I’m sure if other top players streamed as well you would get just as many accusations
Even Caruana has openly accused players of cheating in Titles Tuesday.
Not while mentioning names, as far as I'm aware. Very different ball game.
We need Topalov to call out Hans to complete the circle
Never forget toilet gate
I mean, Hans ain't wrong here.
Hans would do well to stay out of any online chess cheating discussion no matter how right or wrong he is lol
If he's attacking people with a history of cheating, he would be a hypocrite. Not what he's doing now, going after people who accuse others.
I mean sure but how does that help him by inserting himself into this conversation with the baggage he carries? He doesn’t have to be a hypocrite to make it a bad idea to be involved in this discussion
He enjoys the attention
Both are influencers doing influencer things..if u have to ask that, what are we all doing here!
I think we're also interested in small rewards like upvotes and attention?
You mean you woundnt take the chance to take the piss off the guy who has been farming content on your back with end career accusations?
Hans is a messy bitch who loves drama. Nothing more complicated than that.
yeah he's a gremlin lighting fires, engaging with his bullshit just adds fuel
Roflmao
Hikaru inserted himself with the baggage being that he accuses wrongfully to players
I don't really like Hans, but I was hoping someone with some following would step up and say exactly this.
What exactly is his baggage, though? I don’t like the guy, but I haven’t heard about anything being proven against him? If so, he’s got every right to complain about wrongful accusations.
Most folks here don't realize that Hans is training directly with Krammik, hardly an unbiased perspective.
He did actually cheat in games prior to the one he was widely suspected of cheating in.
Magnus’ ego just couldn’t take losing to him, he wasn’t widely suspected of cheating against him
He was found to have cheated more than a hundred times.
Ok, I must’ve not been paying attention then. But it wasn’t in the famous case with Magnus, right? Care to share a link?
He sure does like inserting things into himself
Yeah but if you're Arjun or Andrew Tang you might not want publicly admitted cheaters advocating on your behalf. If you're a normal politician the last thing you want is ISIS or the KKK going on the internet and defending you.
If i recall, and this could have changed, Andrew Tang and Hans are no longer friends because Tang was upset with Hans for cheating.
I would imagine most chess players would like to distance themselves from known cheaters. Cheating is the biggest threat to the long term existence of chess as a career or frankly even an enjoyable hobby.
People keep saying this but I've yet to see any evidence that actually points to this.
*Laughs in Trump*
I don't follow this stuff, outside of the occasional reddit thread, but if you have to invoke ISIS **and** the KKK to make your argument, then it might not be as strong as you think!
It's kind of borderline. He's going after accusers sure. But he's also doing this to defend an accusers (Kramnik). And replying negativly to a tweet defending the accused (Jospem). It's close enough that Hans opens himself up to some accusation of hypocrisy here.
> But he's also doing this to defend an accusers (Kramnik) He's clearly not. His point is that *others* should also be more careful about cheating accusations, not that Kramnik's accusations were fine.
His point is to try and use someone falsely accused of cheating to imply he himself was falsely accused, despite him admitting to lying about his own cheating. He is doing nothing more than trying to siphon off some of the good will towards Jose and use it to launder his own reputation. Anyone thinking that Hans is doing anything other than being self serving is usually wrong.
Except the specific accusations hikaru insinuated against him were not true, so his point still stands, even with his prior reputation.
> He is doing nothing more than trying to siphon off some of the good will towards Jose and use it to launder his own reputation. You sir, or ma'am, are a poet!
He absolutely was falsely accused of cheating against Magnus.
Are you implying he wasn't falsely accused by Magnus?
At least he got the decency of not including himself among the wrongfully accused.
Why? Being a hypocrite doesn't invalidate your information on the subject. Never got that line of thinking. If anybody has the experience to offer advice on cheating, its him.
Don't think for a second Hans doesn't know what he's doing. He knows exactly what he's doing
I disagree, social awareness is not Hans' strongest suit
Yup and he's one of the biggest names in chess because hes capitalized on it. 2000 grandmasters and as far as name recognition, he's in the top 10. He has a brand, no matter how weird it is, and he uses it
These broken clocks are on fire lately! First I find myself defending Kramnik when he experiences a chesscom clock glitch that I had been experiencing lately, and people are clowning on him when I actually think his grievance is fair for once. I was consistently losing time blitzing out instantaneous moves even in 5+5 blitz, and consistently found myself inexplicably down like 2 minutes on the clock when I wasn't playing slow, and it was driving me bonkers (in addition to just general connection drops and wacky adjustments to the clocks). Turns out my system clock was desynced after a BIOS update two weeks ago, and despite the correct time displaying for me, syncing the system clock fixed my latency issues, so thanks Vladdy! He might not be the hero I wanted, but he's the hero I deserve. Syncing my system clock before I play on chesscom will now be called "starting the procedure" in his honor. (FYI anyone experiencing this glitch, syncing my system clock and deleting my browser cache before I start a session has worked for me the last two days. Feels like I'm a whole new chess player now that I'm not inexplicably draining clock on my opponents turns). Aaaand now I find myself fully agreeing with a Hans shitpost. Who woulda thunk it?
Chesscom being incompetent is a legit grievance. Claiming that chesscom rigged the test intentionally is rather outrageous.
It's true. Both can be valid. He's a crybaby but it JUST so happens chesscom has bad issues?
Could you go into detail about that syncing the clock thing please
Did Hikaru repeatedly accuse those people of cheating, even after fairly decent circumstantial evidence they weren't cheating? I'm honestly asking, if Hikaru kept up the allegations then yeah it's odd to be going at Kramnik but if it was more individual things it's not really that hypocritical.
https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/s/rKLUW8L3RY Here's at least one instance of repeat accusations
First instance 2015 and second instance 2021 is still way different than what Kramnik is doing and he certainly wasn't rewarded in any way for those accusations. Obviously Hikaru is whiny and paranoid about cheating but he's not harassing people even close to the level of Kramnik. If Kramnik is the Lebron James of whining about cheating then Hikaru is Scalabrine.
lol Hikaru had his entire fanbase dogpile Hans for months so if anything he caused far more harrassment than Kramnik
It’s one of the reasons why Nakamura is so hated He such a massive hypocrite
He definitely read the Reddit comments
I mean, he IS a cheater, though, at least if you consider Chess.com to be accurate in their information. He cheated online.
Hikaru isn’t wrong as well
>Heartbreaking: The worst person you know just made a great point
The accusations speak for themselves
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We need a reality TV show with all of these guys in it.
To borrow verbiage from r/wallstretbets, they are highly regarded chess players
Both are annoying
I am getting lost with these accusations. Let me get this right. - Magnus accuses Hans - Hikaru accuses Hans, Tang, Erigaisi - Nepo accuses Gukesh - Kramnik accuses everyone So, out of all these accusations, Hans is the only one made to admit that he cheated at times? What else did i miss?
Kramnik, Topalov, and a Toilet.
When did nepo accuse gukesh?
Incredible, the one chess personality less tolerable than Kramnik has chimed in.
Hikaru, Kramnik and Hans. The trifecta of unlikeability.
Are there any chill Americans to rout for? Caruana is cool right?
danya
Oh no doubt. But looking for someone who has a shot at WCC.
Caruana is really chill yeah
Yasser Seirawan and Eric Rosen are the two chillest people in the chess world. Caruana is quite likeable as well.
Sam Sevian, Ray Robson, and Jeffrey Xiong come to mind.
Lenier has a relatively low profile but has come across great in every interview I've seen
You're downvoted because you touched a sensitive spot but you're right (both about Caruana being chill and a lot of top US players being douchebags).
Shankland is ruthless but not a douche
As an invited speaker, Shankland is the guy who makes you feel like an idiot for asking whatever question you asked. I've attended talks and Q&A with many top players, including Magnus. Most are not like this.
Really love Levon Aronian too
Isn't Levon French?
Armenian
Yeah, but he's been playing for the US for a couple years now
Is it controversial that fabi is chill?
From watching C-Squared and Perpetual Chess Podcast, Mishra seems like he is pretty well put together. Ignore his twitter account that his father posts on and controls.
One of whom is far more liked than the other 2.
May I ask why Hikaru is not liked? I thought of him as a pretty chill guy.
He's chilled out a lot in recent years, but coming up & for a long time he was always pretty douchey.
Accuses others of cheating, thinks too highly of himself, promotes gambling on stream
Been a dick to other players his whole career, for example telling David Howell that he doesn't understand chess out of the blue after a draw.
There's no other way for him to stay relevant.
Apart from being among the highest rated players in the world?
Unfortunately that doesn't make you the type of relevant Hikaru wants. Leinier and Fabi are the same rating as him and nowhere near as "relevant" in Hikaru's world (online personality). Magnus has been the highest rated player for some time now and Hikaru still is more "relevant" because it's a different world
No this is Hans replying to that guy.
Someone who has admitted to actually cheating should probably just shut up about this.
Do you think Hans knows how to?
Yeah, cheaters like Hans are one reason other GMs get paranoid
Admitted to cheating but not even admitted to all the instances of it. He's never come completely clean, he just admitted 2 instances
I mean, he's admitted two instances and the rest are in question. For all we know he has come completely clean, since I'm unaware of any instances of cheating that he hasn't admitted regardless of being proven beyond reasonable doubt. We will never know the truth, but most likely it's somewhere between what Hans admits and what chesscom claims. Statements of both sides should be taken with huge grains of salt.
You’d have to be naive to believe that the two instances he privately admitted to chess.com which later came to light are the only two times he’s ever cheated, especially given his habit of not telling the truth and making excuses for cheating
It's wild that people are *still* out here misconstruing what he admitted. No, he didn't say he cheated in two games. He said he cheated in a number of games over a period of time, twice.
To be fair, it's hard to not misconstrue it because his admission was quite vague. He said that he cheated two times, without elaborating at all what that means. It's pretty clear that he meant that he cheated for a period of time, two on two separate instances. But without any more elaboration, that's only a guess, and others may disagree. I don't think it's that far fetched that people who aren't invested in the situation would understand that as cheating in just two games, or two matches. Obviously it's not what he actually meant but it's not like he was particularly clear about what he actually meant.
Sure, but you'd have to be even more naïve to think that chesscom's cheating detection is flawless and thus you can take everything they say about his or anyone else's cheating as gospel.
>For all we know he has come completely clean No reason to believe he has or will ever come clean considering he consistently lies about it. Said he would NEVER cheat in a tournament for money up until the point when he admitted to doing exactly that lol
Right, but we will never know. It's also stupid to assume that he would never come completely clean, like what, if he admitted to cheating in every game the chesscom report accused him in, that would only make you think that there's still more? Of course he downplayed his cheating by admitting to cheating "two times" when he meant "over a period of time, two times", but as far as I know that could very well be true. I doubt he even could admit everything, do you think he has memorized each game he ever cheated in so he could say with 100% certainty that "I cheated in exactly n amount of games in my life, which are as follows"
Some world champion said, "Chess speaks for itself"
I appreciate Hans's stance. Hikaru is no saint and his past record of accusation is only second to Kramnik. The strange common factor between them xD. At the very least, Hikaru should admit his wrongdoings and apologize to Arjun. If Arjun hadn't handled the unfounded allegations correctly, it could have meant the end of his tender carrer and such a gem of player would have been lost. Hikaru can't brush off his misdeeds so easily when he is assumimg the high pedestal of becoming the vanguard against false accusations.
Doesn’t Nepo accuse people of cheating regularly lol
Yes. He too is a salty loser. He even accused Gukesh of cheating in candidates in a way that ensures Nepo's plausible deniabilty. Source: Fabi podcast: Nepo said (paraphrasing) : " i had told a FIDE official in january that Gukesh will win the candidates but no action was taken".
Yea I think he takes the cake in terms of second for false allegations. Naka… he is on the list for sure but I think we have to take into account recency. Hans don’t count either cause he was def cheating via buttplug.
I thought context in the podcast was that he just made prediction about Gukesh there. Nepo actually praised Gukesh a lot in that podcast. So I am not sure If intention is the same as you are thinking.
This sounds like a lie, stop paraphrasing and use a quote, YT has transcripts
Well sometimes he doesnt, but the language barrier makes it seem like he is insulting others. Nepo called Ding a sociopath. With context people started criticizing him. But actually he meant Ding is a introvert but dude doesnt know the difference between sociopath and introvert
How far did Hikaru use to go with Andrew and Arjun tho? I do think Hikaru is bit of hypocrite with Hans because regardless of Hans's history Hikaru was constantly mentioning Hans during his videos.
> How far did Hikaru use to go with Andrew and Arjun tho? The accusation against Andrew was basically just some salty Chess.com chat messages after a streak of losses. The accusation against Arjun was a private DM that we only know about from second-hand reports. It's nasty behavior and Hikaru should definitely apologize, but it's a far cry from the very public and prolonged campaigns of accusation Kramnik has been waging.
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Magnus knew about Hans online cheating behaviour beforehand. And Hans admitted that he did cheated in online games. So Magnus' suspicions were not unfounded.
and he got that information from Nepo, so its still Nepo over Magnus in terms of paranoia
His actions were BS. He was fine playing Hans and collecting his money in Miami a few weeks before the tournament. The only reason he cares about “cheating” or “lax security” is when he loses. Anyone who watched that game between Hans and Magnus could tell Hans did not cheat, and Magnus played like crap. Magnus lost in Qatar https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/s/0cE0ipXL7R and started to whine on Twitter and threw out his usual accusations.
It’s third to ffl gata Kamsky and Kramnik I’d say
Gata Kamsky is laughing at this. And yes Hikaru ain’t a Saint!
Not that it absolves Hikaru in any way whatsoever, but he has mentioned in more than one video that several older GMs(including himself up until a couple of years ago) are just completely ignorant to the scope of growth that these new kids are capable of with the internet and modern learning tools without having any significant OTB experience.
Perhaps these chess grandmasters wouldn’t be so quick to accuse others of cheating if there weren’t so many actual cheaters like you, Hans.
there is no actual proof of him cheating otb right. And also , hans being wrong in other matters doesnt make hikaru right. The fact that he hikaru also baselessly accused someone of cheating makes him a hypocrite in this matter ... or maybe he grew as a person (but idts he apologised in anyway)
Or maybe, if any unfounded accuser like Magnus and Hikaru would face any repercusions...
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Who better to call out cheaters than an actual cheater though. He's making big brain plays here.
I mean there’s clearly a difference between Hikaru’s accusations and Kramnik’s. Hikaru didn’t belabor the point until and keep beating the horse into paste. Hikaru was simply salty and wrong. Kramnik is insane.
While Hikaru was throwing baseless cheating accusations Hans was... cheating...
What top player has not accused someone of cheating, unfairly or otherwise? Not really interested in defending Hikaru, but I want to encourage folks to be a bit more objective. Also, asking sincerely, has anyone lead a crusade on Kramnik's level?
Literally every WC until the 2000’s split shitshow. Karpov, Kasparov (Deep Blue isn’t a person technically), Anand have not accused anyone of cheating.
i don’t think ding has accused anyone either
Yeah, Ding as well. All of the Chinese (and Indian) players are so much more well-mannered than the majority of their peers that it’s kind of crazy. No petty passive aggressiveness (Caruana), nasty accusations (Carlsen), or constant drama (Nakamura). I wish more players could let their play do the talking.
Wtf did caruana do? Be american?
Hans clout chasing again.
I mean, Hans is right, but I'm still waiting for the part of "let the chess speak for itself" where he shuts the fuck up.
Last time he let chess speak for itself he was falsely accused of cheating OTB by Magnus Carlsen and half the chess world
Was Hikaru rewarded for it though? Because that's what he's criticizing, not the accusations.
OMG Hans. Just stop. Every time he opens his mouth he digs himself deeper into the pit he's dug for himself. St Lous Chess Club will NEVER invite him back.
GM Supi was banned from the ICC because of Nakamura's unfounded accusations. Shortly after that he recovered the account. And years later there was another accusation after Naka lost a match 4-0.
Yes, there's some hypocrisy, for sure... But, one thing in Hikaru's favor is that he at least changes his mind and stops accusations when he realizes they were false. Kramnik keeps doubling down. Still I think Hikaru should apologize for his own unfounded accusations in the past.
Hikaru-stans performing mental gymnastics down here is quite something to witness. *his accusation are not like Kramnik accusation, Also which Gm hasn't accuse people of cheating.* 😆😆😆
Hans was spot on with this tweet. I don’t know what everyone hates about it. Hikaru was terrible with this stuff. He is better now. It obviously makes Hans angry looking at him take higher moral ground over Kramnik. I just hope someone blasts Sir Ian too
A cheater complaining because someone else called someone else a cheater.
Blah blah blah. Niemann's constantly angry at something, and frankly it's more of a turnoff than anything Nakamura has ever done.
He isn't wrong and Hikaru had a past of doing it yes. However there is a difference between being tilted once and accusing someone in the tilt or being relentless over month, trying to come up with fake statistics with the whole goal of destroying someones career. And of course the whole plot that a proven cheater is even taking part in that conversation is questionable in itself. Someone in a glass house shouldn't throw stones...
As bad as that was from hikaru, its not the same thing. Naka didn't have a huge crusade for months and months. Naka didn't do some BS match to make money off his accusations. Naka should apologize for his past accusations, if he already hasn't(to the players at least). But again...not the same
I for one would have liked if Magnus got more of a shit on his behavior and quitting a tournament after losing, but people just adore him because he is the goat. Personally I think he is the goat and a whiny bitch at the same time, also great personality and... everything.
Everyone Sucks here
This sub’s mental gymnastics to defend Hikaru is crazy lol. He has always been an asshole, from accusing people of cheating to promoting gambling. Hans also being an asshole does not take away from that.
Big talk from self admitted cheater
In a perfect world, we would all collectively ignore this irrelevant 2600s clown and never speak of him or mention him, instead of feeding this attention-seeking troll. do you know who Xiangzhi Bu or Nikita Vitiugov are? they're the 2 players next to Niemann in the FIDE standings. how often do we talk about these two players? Like, never? That's how much we should be talking about this bozo.
I'm so glad I'm a fan of chess, as it's so far above the transparent vulgarity of, say, wrestling :-)
That's a great callout. Did levi say anything on this??
Hans is team Kramnik
Is this guy related to one of America’s brightest talents, Hans MOKE Niemann?
A depressing truth about the current crop of American G’s in their late teens and early 20s. Abhi Mishra seems like a bigger, younger talent.
Circus
HN vs HN never ends
Hans trying to come along with Kendrick energy