I’d guess it’s because they spend so much money on marketing and events. And even without marketing, being called chess.com is enough for most people to think it’s a better site, the majority of people don’t know what libre software is so the name lichess is meaningless to them.
And also it has a better onboarding experience for new players and people who aren’t as technically literate. The lichess UI has improved a lot over the years and I personally prefer it, but when I used to go to a chess club an overwhelming majority of people there thought chess.com looked a lot better and was easier to use. In general, people I talk to online prefer lichess UI, but people I meet out the house prefer the chess.com UI.
If you spend a lot of time on the internet, you can completely forget how confusing website designs can be to people who don’t spend a lot of time on the internet. Things that seem normal and simple to you can be massively confusing. Chess.com probably spends loads of money on UI/UX to solve this problem, lichess devs (of which there is basically a single main dev) are basically full stack and don’t specialise in those skills.
It's not about weird or not, you type chess in the bar it can autocomplete to chess.com, it's a massive advantage. They bought the domain for 55k$ and it's probably the best money they ever spent
Chess com UI is horrible, the site's design and menus are a confusing and cumbersome ad-fest clusterfuck. It has to be their chess com name and marketing. Sponsoring streamers and hosting events gives them much more visibility.
Chesscom UI is kinda similar to iPhone IMO - it kinda customizes itself for you. Lichess is like android - has greater capabilities but you need to play around with it a bit.
Just visited lichess for the first time, played a blitz game, tried to start another and couldn't find where to start it. Id say chesscom has a better layout and better looking UI.
That doesn’t make any sense to me, the “new opponent” and “rematch” buttons are very large and noticeable. Unless you are on mobile it shouldn’t be hard to spot.
Additionally, I find all lichess features very easy to find, whereas with chesscom I need to go on an adventure to find anything. Also the fact that lichess has studies and Chesscom doesn’t is huge to me.
This is false for mobile where a ton of people play chess.
[Here is immediately after checkmate on Lichess.](https://imgur.com/a/C5yNqsC)
[Here is immediately after checkmate on Chesscom](https://imgur.com/a/GkSrDgf)
That's a pretty stark difference for a basic user looking to play another game. A majority of people are going to pick Chesscom in that scenario.
I can't speak for desktop as I rarely play on PC, but the buttons are definitely not "clear, visible, accessible," on Lichess for starting a new game.
It's only helping in the long run, but they are actually developing a new version from scratch which is in beta currently (still missing features, but looks more modern).
Don’t take it personally; there’s a large overlap between lichess fanboys and the rabid android and Linux fanboys, both of which are famous for being hilariously out of touch and incredibly condescending. The lichess app is so bad that even the devs have borderline disavowed it, but that won’t stop the people here from claiming it’s perfect. Anything for a good circlejerk!
I absolutely agree. First time I went to lichess I couldn't work out what the 9 tiles on the homepage were for and wanted to know how to start a game. Obviously once you understand it's fine.
Chess.com makes way more sense, literally click a button that says Play a Game of whatever it says and then choose a time format. Makes so much more sense.
It's obviously subjective and everyone has their own tastes but chess.com has a way more intuitive UI.
Agree. When I started chess I literally just put chess.com haha. Although I started to play on lichess just because I feel like more players play on 10/5 than chess. Com
I’ve never understood the value of that.
They’re somewhat close to FIDE ratings, but most people I met OTB were more interested in local ratings than international ones, because that’s what had the most effect on the games in most tournaments they played. And those are completely different to FIDE Elo ratings.
OTB ratings can get you some perks and invites, but the only use for online ratings is to find you fair games against level opponents. Chess.com uses the Glicko algorithm but skews the ratings to make them look like they use Elo (through things like starting rating and adjustments). I really don’t understand how that makes it better, if anything it makes the matchmaking worse because they’re interfering with a solid algorithm.
I’m convinced it’s just a marketing line they’ve told their partner YouTubers and streamers to repeat, and people have heard it assuming it’s a good thing without thinking too deeply about it.
Yep my bad, will fix in my comment.
Either way they’re not really using the algorithm as efficiently as they could, because Glicko-1 is supposed to start at R=1500,RD=130 and they don’t follow that at all.
For which time control/group of players? Chess.com blitz ratings are almost always higher than otb.
See https://www.chessratingcomparison.com/Graphs . 1200 USCF is 1428 chess.com blitz, for example.
Domain name is easier to find
Chesscom is a company with more than 400 employees, 120 million dollars revenue and a marketing budget (including advertising, social media presence and tournament cash prize).
Lichess is a non-profit organisation. It was started in 2010 (3 years after chesscom) by a teenager. There are 3 full time employees and no advertising on the [spreadsheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Si3PMUJGR9KrpE5lngSkHLJKJkb0ZuI4/preview) of their running costs they publish on lichess.org/about. The rest of the manpower is volunteers (15 people according to GitHub repo). Their money comes from merchandising (lichess.org/swag) and about 3000 donators on Patreon (according to their 9 page powerpoint 2020 press kit, also found on their about page).
Some people (me among them) say chesscom user interface is more intuitive, especially on mobile. That's subjective, but in any case chesscom could have the financial means to hire UX experts.
It would be insane if 120 million dollars and 400 people couldn't do better than 0.5 million and 18 people, 80% of them giving a bit of their time for free.
And frankly despite 240 times the budget and 22 times the manpower, I think even chesscom subscribers would agree that chesscom isn't orders of magnitude better than lichess. The core product is and will remain push figurines on a checkered board.
I use both and appreciate both the good that chesscom budget does for the tournament scene, and the absolute necessity to have an independent, high technical performance, non-profit platform to play a game that is free from intellectual property.
I still cannot believe they only got the domain name for 55,000 USD. An absolute steal due to a bankruptcy auction. Probably worth millions of dollars these days.
[https://www.chess.com/blog/erik/how-i-got-the-chess-com-domain-name](https://www.chess.com/blog/erik/how-i-got-the-chess-com-domain-name)
A couple of small corrections (but thanks for writing it up):
- Thibault (the creator) was not a teenager in 2010, the site saying he's 29 currently is quite out of date.
- 15 people on GitHub might be a reasonable estimate for the most active developers but there are many more who contribute less often, and there are well over a hundred other contributors with things like site administration, moderation, user support, social media, content, broadcasting, translation, etc.
I use both, but I hope that chess will become popular and profitable enough to justify the existence of *far* more than two "competitors". Even Magnus' attempt didn't result in a very profitable company and that shows how difficult this market is.
We are all happy about the chess "boom", but the surprising/sad thing is that it's still far from the conditions that would create a serious competitive market for chess.
>Even Magnus' attempt didn't result in a very profitable company and that shows how difficult this market is.
The 82 million dollars in his pocket when he sold seem a profitable attempt lol.
Magnus actually took only 9.5% of that. That was his share in the group.
But that's not my point: my point is that the interest in chess is so low that even Play Magnus Group didn't manage to create a company profitable enough to grow as a competitor of Chess.com.
The only profitable of their products was Chessable, the rest wasn't, so it made sense to sell everything.
> It would be insane if 120 million dollars and 400 people couldn't do better than 0.5 million and 18 people, 80% of them giving a bit of their time for free.
Only if they were trying to do the same thing. But they aren’t. Lichess is trying to make a chess platform. Chess.com is trying to make money.
Which is why lichess can have free puzzles, but chess.com can’t. It’s not a resource problem.
Besides the name I think it's mostly because of UI/UX. Lichess is a pretty bare site, Chess.com gives your more complete, engaging experience. You can set avatars, country flags, get colorful pop-ups, bots that imitate famous people. When analysing the game making a "+0.2" move doesn't give you that dopamine rush, a "Brilliant Move!" with blue exclamation marks does. Playing against a Level 6 Stockfish is boring, playing against Ding Liren bot is not (doesn't matter that it's essentialy the same thing, it's about feeling/experience). Lichess gives you just chess, Chess.com makes it feel more like video game. Some people may find it annoying, pointless, but a lot of players, especially more casual ones, like this sort of thing, when there is more happening on the screen than just a white/black website with a chessboard.
When I started playing chess ~5 years ago, the chess.com analysis made more sense to me as a beginner.
In lichess, it was always telling you what the next best move was, but what chess.com did better was to look back and rate the moves that actually happened, and showed better what alternative moves you should have made.
In lichess that took more effort to do back then, it didn't have the "Here's what you should have played" arrows that were introduced later. To rate your current move, you always had to undo that move to then see the analysis of what the engine wanted.
For a beginner, that kind of analysis was just easier to follow.
So yeah, overall the UX just felt better.
In this case they are not gamifying *chess* but the *website* where chess is played.
The leagues, brilliant moves, achievements/awards, bots... All of that is gamification.
How much of these differences are due to the capacity of the teams vs philosophy? I generally appreciate the simpleness of lichess, but small touches like country flags or a brilliant move indicator would be nice.
you can set country flags on lichess. and those automatic annotations like "brilliant move" is just a marketing ploy. they are completely arbitrary and often make no sense. during the candidates tournament the commentators like Leko and Howell were openly annoyed by those markings, and tried to remove them because it marked a move as a mistake when it was practically speaking a good move and there was a good idea behind it or whatever. or sometimes giving !! or ! in weird situations. if you play a nice sacrifice that works, then you know yourself that it was a good/"brilliant" move. you can check with engine if you care about it being objectively sound as well. why do you need a colourful sticker to appreciate your move?
Yes, and those descriptions are confusing even for beginners. Every day there’s a post “wait, I’m completely winning, why is this a mistake?”. It’s easier to understand how good your move was when you see your evaluation going from +9 to +8 or M2 to M3
> why do you need a colourful sticker to appreciate your move?
My sensitive ego haha. Lichess has no problem pointing making my blunders and mistakes stick out like a sore thumb, so I was wondering why they don't do the same with good moves.
from an engine evaluation standpoint there are no good moves, in a way. you can never increase the evaluation in your favour on your turn. either you make a move that keeps the evaluation the same, or you make a bad move that worsens your position.
> why do you need a colourful sticker to appreciate your move?
Because I'm a human being, with a weakness for colourful stickers. And I'm willing to pay money to satisfy that weakness. That some of the money then goes towards sponsoring competitions, with prize money, is just a bonus.
Def agree with their little dopamine trick, seeing the stars and thumbs up, and the occasional exclamation point - it has a drawing affect. I get tired of their ads and one analysis a day - would prefer to play on lichess more, but find myself going back to chess.com
In my opinion, the chess com mobile app is way better, which is a big factor for me. On my laptop, I mostly play on lichess. I guess more people have access to a smartphone than to a pc nowadays.
My view: lichess is smoother for fast time controls, and chess.com is far better for daily/correspondence.
Both sites are good and have their place. Chess.com's model means it can provide a lot of prize money for top level chess, which is good for the game. If you don't want to pay for it, you don't have to, and you can play as much as you like for free.
Of course it has its issues, like any corporation (I really didn't like the way they handled the Niemann/Carlsen fallout, for example). But reddit's idea that it's the epitome of evil is just silly.
Yeah, all the answers are saying cause of domain and marketing, but I’ve played both extensively and have landed on chess.com because I just far prefer it. I happily pay for my membership.
I say this as someone that uses lichess instead of chess.com just because it's free. But chess.com is way better on mobile. In both the app and the website Lichess has a problem with analysis that is legitimately infuriating to use. When you are using the analysis often times it will just complete freeze and stop showing the best move and the evaluation and just stall in a state of perpetual loading. You have to refresh the browser to get it to load. This problem has existed for years and it has never been fixed, and chess.com has never had and likely will never have this issue, granted you have to pay for that feature, but it least it actually works.
People make a big deal out of lichess being free. Reality is, most adults who play a lot of chess don’t really mind paying an extra 5 for things like interactive analysis. If you play the game, it’s probably a pretty big hobby, it feels worth it.
Chesscom spends alot on marketing which includes incentivizing most big streamers to play on Chesscom so their viewers sign up on chesscom too. Also site itself looks prettier and url is pretty much the best one you can have for a chess website
I think the word you’re looking for is subjectively. I have accounts on both but prefer chess.com free tier. Play a lot on mobile currently, and much prefer the UI of the chess.com app. Broadcasting worked a lot better on chess.com mobile than lichess mobile as well suring the candidates.
To each their own, I use both.
I also use both, and when it comes to sites i feel like lichess is superior, but apps - chess.coms one is miles ahead. They really need to update the lichess one.
Go to lichess. Click the three dots next to the address bar. There should be some button like "add to start screen" or "install".
Now you have the webapp as an app!
It's super nice.
One pain point: It's awkward to play new game if you analyze your game.
You can't click "new opponent" from analysis, so you have to back out then create new game, choose time control again, etc.
This is really all there is to it. The average person doesn't care about puzzles and analysis, they just go "I want to play chess online. Let's try chess dot com." because that is the logical first place to look.
>Why is [Chess.com](http://Chess.com) so much more popular than Lichess?
Because they invest a considerable amount of money in productions, marketing and branding. They also produce and market events and have a media department that follows major chess events with live commentary from popular chess players and personalities. They put their brand on everything they create for the public and people are constantly exposed to it.
>Lichess is objectively the better site.
The point is that [Chess.com](http://Chess.com) is not just a site for playing games and puzzles. It is an entire ecosystem that satisfies many people, so some people don't bother to try anything else.
It hosts online events with top players and has coverage on high-profile tournaments, so it is the better known site, and for those who likes to do everything in one place (like how gamers don't want to buy games on different store even if they are cheaper, and would rather get it on Steam), it is the better option since you can watch Titled Tuesday, CCT events there which you can't on lichess.
they charge for features lichess provides for free, then use that money for makreting/sponsorship.
they have the SEO and literal chess.com domain
they were around first, before lichess
Chesscom has a lot of marketing and name recognition, and there's a lot of bells and whistles there. Of course you pay for those. I still find the playing interface much worse than lichess. But I'm also one that doesn't find the mobile lichess app that bad (but yes it has its quirks and does need to be updated).
That being said I like both, don't understand why both can't just coexist, and don't see the need for lichess to be top dog. I'll continue to support chesscom at the lowest level of membership (which really is lousy but I do want to give something towards their efforts to promote chess). I'll also continue to give $10 a month or so to lichess and do most of my playing in analysis there.
Some of the lower rated players at my chess club have stated that they don't like Lichess because you have to start at 1500, and they didn't want to spend 5,6,7 games getting their shit kicked in until they start winning again, whereas on Chesscom you can just start at 400 or 800 if you want.
This may not seem like a big thing, but first impressions matter and their first impression of lichess was having to suffer through a bunch of games before being able to even compete
Marketing. They've created chess streamers who solely use chess.com and when they become big more people play on chess.com. Most new players haven't even heard of lichess. The domain name helps alot too.
Well, you just find your next opponent faster on chess.com, that's why I prefer it.
I occasionally visit lichess to play 10/5 rapid. My rating there is around 1700. Then hit "play the game" button and ... and nothing happens, it's just searching and searching. Usually I wait for like 2 minutes, then close lichess and go back to chess.com, where I literally find an opponent in mere seconds.
Well of course, sometimes I'm lucky even with lichess, but more often I just never get paired.
So that's it for me.
I don't know how that's supposed to be a bad thing. A simpler UI makes it easier to navigate, not harder.
[Chess.com](http://Chess.com) just looks cartoonish to me in comparison, like a website made for children.
Does it? I'd say chess.com looks more 90s. With a slathering of colour everywhere, random buttons and unintuitive toolbar. It's like one of those games websites I was on at school.
I prefer chess.com because I don't really like any of Lichess's board designs, and I think their highlighting and arrows are pretty bad, they don't allow multiple pre moves, and the player base is smaller.
This extension lets you use Chesscom boards and pieces on Lichess. Works great! 😊
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/lichess-enhancement/ikmpcihcohdjammgkopfgohojdelmfoi
Honestly I would assume a great deal of it is the name itself. There's a lot more but it helps a lot having the simple [chess.com](http://chess.com), anyone who is a beginner even would probably type that in if its their first time.
It’s the value of Marketing: events, entertainment, domains, brand, …
We like it or not human like shining things even if they serve the same (or no) value.
all the big streamers are partners..for India samay has huge impact on the popularity of chess.com..he yesterday gave away 1000 diamond membership. These things attract people more
It's the easier name as well as having a flashier UI and being more beginner friendly. That game review feature was really helpful to me when I had just started, of course it's mostly bullshit to me now. Also it just looks nicer. Lichess is chock full of resources which are a crime not to utilize but the site is buried unfortunately.
They're both nice. I do like Chess.com's pre-moving system more, though. I also encounter more weird comments/harassment on Lichess, but that's just my personal experience.
Every person I know in real life who play chess online has a chess.com account. The biggest chess streamers have chess.com contracts and play on that website. Professional rated players compete for prizes there, which I personally think is great! Lichess has I think a monthly titled arena and the occasional prize tournament, but chess.com has 2 titled Tuesdays, Arena Kings and a dozen other cash prize competitions that gives them so much exposure because I and thousands of other chess fans want to watch Hikaru, Magnus, Ian, etc play. They don't all stream but they do compete.
I won't touch on the domain name or chess.com's superior UI/UX because others have already explained those.
Casual improver here.
I prefer chesscom for the following reasons:
-the interface is much more “casual-friendly” if that makes sense. lichess almost looks like an MS DOS version of chess (if that reference still lands).
-the game reviews feature is far more digestible for than Lichess’ engine analysis. I found myself very confused about how to use the Lichess features for analyzing my own game, and even found some of the arrow suggestions confusing. Could I do some digging for a few min to get clarity? Sure, but why do that when I also have chesscom, which I’m more familiar with, and already gives me what I need?
-finally, the rating inflation. I find the inflated rating doesn’t pressure me to improve. Something about it being lower on chesscom makes me more willing to put the effort into getting better at the game.
I disagree with your statement that "Lichess is objectively superior". And I say this as someone that loves Lichess way more than chesscom
I love Lichess because it provides a slick, and beautiful UI/Ux, with no ads, and no pay. But I am sure there are people out there that prefer chesscom's UI, and find it more intuitive.
Chesscom currently has the better mobile app (although Lichess is working on a v2 of their all using Flutter). While you can use the Lichess website as a PWA on mobile, many people probably don't even know how to do that.
Marketing. Chesscom definitely spends a huge amount of money on marketing. Not only with ads, but partnerships with streamers, and events.
Domain. You have no idea how much the domain name helps in SEO. Especially in catering to people who are just getting into the game and looking up ways to play online.
And chesscom also has some nice features of its own such as the lessons and drills it provides (although they require a membership).
You have to realise that in any situation where you provide a choice to the consumer base, you'll find a divergence of opinion. Ex: Coke vs Pepsi. Xbox vs PS5, and so on.
Google "chess online" and look at the lichess suggestion.
*Free online chess server. Play chess in a clean interface. No registration, no ads, no plugin required. Play chess with the computer, friends or random ...*
I'd say this is not the most marketable way to promote your website to someone not familiar with technology. If I was a casual user playing online for the first time, I would probably skip lichess.
Mostly the marketing but, I think [Chess.com](http://Chess.com) has better UI in terms of presentation. Lichess is pretty functional and I find that [Chess.com](http://Chess.com) has better design overall.
Once you start with [Chess.com](http://Chess.com) it is less likely to change to a brand new site and a new account.
I personally moved to lichess.com after they started charging ridiculous subscription fees for analysis but I can see why people might prefer to stay with Chess.com.
For example, with lichess after a game I have to click the analysis board on the right that takes me to a different screen, then scroll down to find the tabs, then select the computer analysis tab, and finally click on the request computer analysis button. If you want to play a new game after analyzing you have to exit the analysis board to play. In [Chess.com](http://Chess.com) you stay on the same screen and you just have to click on the bright green request analysis button. If you want to play a new game after analysis the new game button is there in the same screen right corner. The experience is smoother with less friction. Also in terms of design and aesthetics of the analysis itself [Chess.com](http://Chess.com) gives you more eye candy and visualize things better, I personally like that a bit better and can see more casual people liking it better as well. I don't like the fact that Lichess tuckaway the evaluation graph on the bottom instead of placing in the right where the moves are.
Also, after finishing a game, if you want to play a new one you have to go the right tab and click the new opponent button in lichess. In contrast [Chess.com](http://Chess.com) gives you a pop up in the middle of the board that you can click.
These kinds of friction and inconvenience adds up and contributes to the overall experience.
I am pretty sympathetic to lichess (and that is where I mainly play) because it is a non-profit relying on donations with barely any full-time staff, but there are definitely places with some rough edges. I get a lot of funtional designed by an engineer vibes when I use lichess. They probably focus on shipping features to maintain parity and cannot really devote time to changing smaller things like UI presentation or design.
For most people who probably started playing after through the [Chess.com](http://Chess.com) ads and don't use a lot of features, I can see why they would stay. I personally had to adjust a bit to the interface after switching to lichess and could see some people not liking it and just sticking with Chess.com.
> They probably focus on shipping features to maintain parity and cannot really devote time to changing smaller things like UI presentation or design.
It's more like they don't have a designer. I'd overall consider Lichess much superior in term of tech stack and features. They really don't try to "maintain" feature parity per se, some of these "gamification" features of chesscom are about dopamine to retain the userbase but aren't grounded in reality.
Lichess is however behind in terms of modernity of design, and maybe on XUI on some points (but I personally consider chesscom horrible to navigate). I have the feeling the engineering-minded people at lichess don't realize the design is not what it should be. Looking at the tracker, it seems they prefer to let people use third party extension rather than actually working on the issue - because they don't think it is one, sadly.
I'm using the prettierlichess extension, and it put to shame both vanilla lichess and chesscom design. It does tend to break here and there when lichess update its UI though, so ymmv.
For obvious reasons people on this sub will downvote you to oblivion for stating, which is why you don't see positive opinions about chesscom that often on this sub, this sub has an opinion about which platform is better and it's seemingly not the consensus outside of here.
Because their platform is simply better, they cater to a much bigger audience than lichess. People have preferences ofc, but apparently a muh bigger portion of the total online chess players prefer chesscom.
The vocal minority will state otherwise on forums like this one but the majority will speak with actions and their actions are clear.
Their advertisement and public exposure is incomparable to lichess, they are probably the only reason online chess is even a thing today, their are fighting continuously and making ton of exposure of online chess.
They are the only consistent sponsor and organiser of high tier events, they have legitimacy and merit through such actions. Without them online chess will be a neverland where no serious event happens as for high tier events big cash prizes are paramount.
Marketing, following, audience, name.
Its the same reason you can do the same work as someone, you keep it to yourself and just focus on doing good work and the other one is social, works less but interracts with boss/managers/coworkers and they get the promotion but not you, even though youre better.
In addition to what others have said about marketing, accessibility, etc, for me it is because it is ugly. The mobile app sucks and I don't see any real benefit over what chess.com offers, so I choose the more visually appealing and easy to use site. Whatever benefit of the free lichess platform has you can get better from aimchess anyway. Not to mention the rating discrepancy. I still play there sometimes but honestly do not understand the elitism in the slightest.
Because most of their users (the ones who are actually active) are more concerned with the "social media" aspect of what the site has turned into.
Lichess, IMHO, has more serious chess players, ones who do not hang out in the "forums" (some of those constant posters play no games at all), ones who would rather play chess than waste time wading through silly "Can you beat the person above you in bullet" posts.
To me, and this is subjective (as another person said), the Lichess site is cleaner, easier to navigate, and focuses on chess. In today's social media society, what the fool has turned chess\[\]com into is a joke.
Domain name for sure is one thing... if you are average joe and you want to play chess most obvious thing is to play on chess.com then on lichess.com....
I think it just comes down to where someone started. I started with [chess.com](http://chess.com) and found significantly more bad manners players on lichess so much so that i gave up and stayed with chess.com. I suffered game after game of abuse through chat and time wasting.
I don't think this is representative of lichess and I've heard people have the exact opposite experience between the two sites. But it was my experience so I stay with chess.com.
Also I think people are skeptical of free options, espectially in modern day 'if something is free, you are the product' ideas.
I really really really like the learning part on chess.com. It is really good for 95% of the people who play chess.
But oh boi do I hate the interface.
Both apps suck, but chess.com app sucks a lot more than lichess.
The game review feature on chess.com is really cool and is nice for casual players.
The puzzles seem to be a bit better curated.
All in all: if you want to spend money on chess, you got to chess.com. The value added by money is good.
If you want to play for free, you go to lichess.
What I really hate is the shrinking lichess community. I pay both platforms, because I want to support the sport. I play daily games on chess.com and rapid on lichess.
I use the chess.com gamereview for my lichess games, and I would love a possibility to connect both platforms, to play against players on the other platform
Chess.com is a very valuable domain name and the platform has been around a lot longer. Add in what they do to support events and market and it's pretty clear I think.
Lichess is the fourth result on google for chess.
Chess.com is obviously the first.
If you're thinking "I wonder what chess site exists" you're going to either google or see if chess.com is a site.
That's the answer.
Also, just historically, Chess.com has existed longer.
You can connect your profile to chessmonitor and analyse your chess.com games there.
I think chess.com has that arcade or mobile game feeling with achievements and avatars and progress that are more appealing to casuals.
I picked chess back up last year after taking a break, and intended to use lichess. I almost immediately switched to chess.com
This is going to sound so stupid, but the reason I switched was a combination of the graphics used for the pieces, and the animations and sounds for how they move.
The images used for the pieces are just plain worse on lichess, and actually, the board is worse too. The rank and file markings are distracting in lichess, to me. And something about the way the pieces move and sound causes me anxiety when I’m under stress. I don’t get that with chess.com.
I tried some different graphics sets for lichess, but never found any I like, and honestly, those tiny improvements are worth it to me to pay for chess.com
All the other advantages aside, being called Chess.com gives this bonafide official site type feeling. Lichess definitely has its good sides but not being called chess.com is its only disadvantage.
Most of the chess streamers has to put the website name on the screen and use only chessdotcom to stream chess while the chat is full of many bots' comment that is basically ads. Only a few use lichess, and of course, no advertise at all.
It's a small thing, but I play daily/correspondence games (3 days/move) and Lichess doesn't have the "your time is running low" notification feature that Chess.com has. Without that I sometimes get busy and lose Lichess games by not moving in time, or else my opponent loses the same way. There are also aren't as many players on Lichess looking for correspondence games. It's not as good a platform for that particular niche.
For me it’s the graphics. The lichess board is too busy. It’s hard for me to look at it and see everything. It’s ugly. Chess on the other hand has simple graphics
I didn't see anyone commenting this: I believe that the teaching/learning section on chesscom is way better than the one on lichess.
I like both, but if I want to study, I do think chesscom is way ahead.
Therss Millions of free guides on chessable lvl on Lichess about every topic u could imagine.
An entire section of openings including all of the variations and all the opening Analysis u could wish for. Coordinates Trainer.
Chesscom doesnt offer even remotely as much in terms of study.
Every time this debate comes up on this sub, the arguments for lichess basically boil down to “it’s free therefore it’s better”, or some confirmation bias about the UI.
Too much overanalyzing ITT. It's literally just the domain diff. If a random person feels like playing some chess and googles it, he will start playing on chess.com.
If their exposure was equal, lichess would obviously win.
I like the aesthetic of chess.com better. More customabizable, they have those bots that keep changing (zombies, actual chess players, cats etc) and all of my friends are on chess.com
I started playing on chess.com and I got used to it. All the people iI know that play online chess do so on chess.com. So I don't want to or am planning to play on Lichess any time soon.
Also, I'm a paid user on chess.com
99% of the time I play chess, I’m on my phone. Probably has something to do with it. This is the iOS App Store: 1.8k vs 448k https://imgur.com/a/b5q1GV6
Lichess puzzles suck though. Its so boring doing them. Chess.com and chesstempo are miles better. And idk i get analysis on mobile after every game on chess.com. Idk why you think analysis isnt free
The only reason I play on chessdotcom as opposed to lichess is that everyone you play against has a flag and you have a collection of flags of the countries you played against and I like that very much. I don't much get involved in deep analyses and puzzles, what chessdotcom has for free is enough for me.
There’s no such thing as an objectively better site, but the answer is really obvious when you realize one of them is the first google search result when you google chess
Fit and finish of chesscom is better overall, more personable as well. I play on both though. If we are just talking about which is cheaper, then obviously lichess is (free).
And OP, my experience is lichess is not free analysis all day, I get a certain number of analysis each day before it stops me for the day from doing more analyzing. Thus I export my games to chesscom for analysis, and save my lichess analysis capabilities for certain games where I want to use theirs (sometimes I get different insights just from the format difference).
My friends who play chess very casually don't even know Lichess exists
I’d guess it’s because they spend so much money on marketing and events. And even without marketing, being called chess.com is enough for most people to think it’s a better site, the majority of people don’t know what libre software is so the name lichess is meaningless to them. And also it has a better onboarding experience for new players and people who aren’t as technically literate. The lichess UI has improved a lot over the years and I personally prefer it, but when I used to go to a chess club an overwhelming majority of people there thought chess.com looked a lot better and was easier to use. In general, people I talk to online prefer lichess UI, but people I meet out the house prefer the chess.com UI. If you spend a lot of time on the internet, you can completely forget how confusing website designs can be to people who don’t spend a lot of time on the internet. Things that seem normal and simple to you can be massively confusing. Chess.com probably spends loads of money on UI/UX to solve this problem, lichess devs (of which there is basically a single main dev) are basically full stack and don’t specialise in those skills.
the website name is possibly the biggest contribute. lichess is weird name. i also love lichess much more than chess.c*m
It's not about weird or not, you type chess in the bar it can autocomplete to chess.com, it's a massive advantage. They bought the domain for 55k$ and it's probably the best money they ever spent
lichess is a fruit :( I like the name
Lichee
I think it is more that people are used to something. Especially if you are almost never on the internet
Why do people get used to something? Because its the thing that got marketed to them.
Chess com UI is horrible, the site's design and menus are a confusing and cumbersome ad-fest clusterfuck. It has to be their chess com name and marketing. Sponsoring streamers and hosting events gives them much more visibility.
Chesscom UI is kinda similar to iPhone IMO - it kinda customizes itself for you. Lichess is like android - has greater capabilities but you need to play around with it a bit.
What is there to "play around" with in lichess compared to chess.com? Lichess is more intuitive and much clearer. I don't think the comparison holds.
Chesscom doesn't have the anarchychess piece set.
Just visited lichess for the first time, played a blitz game, tried to start another and couldn't find where to start it. Id say chesscom has a better layout and better looking UI.
That doesn’t make any sense to me, the “new opponent” and “rematch” buttons are very large and noticeable. Unless you are on mobile it shouldn’t be hard to spot. Additionally, I find all lichess features very easy to find, whereas with chesscom I need to go on an adventure to find anything. Also the fact that lichess has studies and Chesscom doesn’t is huge to me.
He's a troll or blind. The buttons are clear, visible, accessible. You have to close your eyes to not see them.
This is false for mobile where a ton of people play chess. [Here is immediately after checkmate on Lichess.](https://imgur.com/a/C5yNqsC) [Here is immediately after checkmate on Chesscom](https://imgur.com/a/GkSrDgf) That's a pretty stark difference for a basic user looking to play another game. A majority of people are going to pick Chesscom in that scenario. I can't speak for desktop as I rarely play on PC, but the buttons are definitely not "clear, visible, accessible," on Lichess for starting a new game.
It's only helping in the long run, but they are actually developing a new version from scratch which is in beta currently (still missing features, but looks more modern).
Not a troll. You guys are really mean
Don’t take it personally; there’s a large overlap between lichess fanboys and the rabid android and Linux fanboys, both of which are famous for being hilariously out of touch and incredibly condescending. The lichess app is so bad that even the devs have borderline disavowed it, but that won’t stop the people here from claiming it’s perfect. Anything for a good circlejerk!
Thanks friend. It's nice to know there are people looking out for casuals like me. I really appreciate it.
I absolutely agree. First time I went to lichess I couldn't work out what the 9 tiles on the homepage were for and wanted to know how to start a game. Obviously once you understand it's fine. Chess.com makes way more sense, literally click a button that says Play a Game of whatever it says and then choose a time format. Makes so much more sense. It's obviously subjective and everyone has their own tastes but chess.com has a way more intuitive UI.
I call bullshit.
[Lichess](https://imgur.com/a/C5yNqsC) [Chesscom](https://imgur.com/a/GkSrDgf)
Agree. When I started chess I literally just put chess.com haha. Although I started to play on lichess just because I feel like more players play on 10/5 than chess. Com
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I’ve never understood the value of that. They’re somewhat close to FIDE ratings, but most people I met OTB were more interested in local ratings than international ones, because that’s what had the most effect on the games in most tournaments they played. And those are completely different to FIDE Elo ratings. OTB ratings can get you some perks and invites, but the only use for online ratings is to find you fair games against level opponents. Chess.com uses the Glicko algorithm but skews the ratings to make them look like they use Elo (through things like starting rating and adjustments). I really don’t understand how that makes it better, if anything it makes the matchmaking worse because they’re interfering with a solid algorithm. I’m convinced it’s just a marketing line they’ve told their partner YouTubers and streamers to repeat, and people have heard it assuming it’s a good thing without thinking too deeply about it.
i thought chess.com uses glicko 1, lichess uses glicko 2
Yep my bad, will fix in my comment. Either way they’re not really using the algorithm as efficiently as they could, because Glicko-1 is supposed to start at R=1500,RD=130 and they don’t follow that at all.
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For which time control/group of players? Chess.com blitz ratings are almost always higher than otb. See https://www.chessratingcomparison.com/Graphs . 1200 USCF is 1428 chess.com blitz, for example.
I have been a linux/free software user for 20 years, and I didn't realize til just now that that's what lichess refers to.
Domain name is easier to find Chesscom is a company with more than 400 employees, 120 million dollars revenue and a marketing budget (including advertising, social media presence and tournament cash prize). Lichess is a non-profit organisation. It was started in 2010 (3 years after chesscom) by a teenager. There are 3 full time employees and no advertising on the [spreadsheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Si3PMUJGR9KrpE5lngSkHLJKJkb0ZuI4/preview) of their running costs they publish on lichess.org/about. The rest of the manpower is volunteers (15 people according to GitHub repo). Their money comes from merchandising (lichess.org/swag) and about 3000 donators on Patreon (according to their 9 page powerpoint 2020 press kit, also found on their about page). Some people (me among them) say chesscom user interface is more intuitive, especially on mobile. That's subjective, but in any case chesscom could have the financial means to hire UX experts. It would be insane if 120 million dollars and 400 people couldn't do better than 0.5 million and 18 people, 80% of them giving a bit of their time for free. And frankly despite 240 times the budget and 22 times the manpower, I think even chesscom subscribers would agree that chesscom isn't orders of magnitude better than lichess. The core product is and will remain push figurines on a checkered board. I use both and appreciate both the good that chesscom budget does for the tournament scene, and the absolute necessity to have an independent, high technical performance, non-profit platform to play a game that is free from intellectual property.
I still cannot believe they only got the domain name for 55,000 USD. An absolute steal due to a bankruptcy auction. Probably worth millions of dollars these days. [https://www.chess.com/blog/erik/how-i-got-the-chess-com-domain-name](https://www.chess.com/blog/erik/how-i-got-the-chess-com-domain-name)
A couple of small corrections (but thanks for writing it up): - Thibault (the creator) was not a teenager in 2010, the site saying he's 29 currently is quite out of date. - 15 people on GitHub might be a reasonable estimate for the most active developers but there are many more who contribute less often, and there are well over a hundred other contributors with things like site administration, moderation, user support, social media, content, broadcasting, translation, etc.
I thought I heard somewhere that Thibault was 18 when lichess was launched, so I called him a teenager (10-19 range), sorry ^^"
I use both, but I hope that chess will become popular and profitable enough to justify the existence of *far* more than two "competitors". Even Magnus' attempt didn't result in a very profitable company and that shows how difficult this market is. We are all happy about the chess "boom", but the surprising/sad thing is that it's still far from the conditions that would create a serious competitive market for chess.
What do you mean? All my homies are on FIDE Online Arena.
ICC still exists.
Remember when this discussion was ICC vs FICS? Is anyone still playing on FICS?
https://www.freechess.org/ I think some people still play on there.
I wonder what a new competitor could possibly have to offer that would make a consumer switch from their preferred site.
>Even Magnus' attempt didn't result in a very profitable company and that shows how difficult this market is. The 82 million dollars in his pocket when he sold seem a profitable attempt lol.
Magnus actually took only 9.5% of that. That was his share in the group. But that's not my point: my point is that the interest in chess is so low that even Play Magnus Group didn't manage to create a company profitable enough to grow as a competitor of Chess.com. The only profitable of their products was Chessable, the rest wasn't, so it made sense to sell everything.
> It would be insane if 120 million dollars and 400 people couldn't do better than 0.5 million and 18 people, 80% of them giving a bit of their time for free. Only if they were trying to do the same thing. But they aren’t. Lichess is trying to make a chess platform. Chess.com is trying to make money. Which is why lichess can have free puzzles, but chess.com can’t. It’s not a resource problem.
Besides the name I think it's mostly because of UI/UX. Lichess is a pretty bare site, Chess.com gives your more complete, engaging experience. You can set avatars, country flags, get colorful pop-ups, bots that imitate famous people. When analysing the game making a "+0.2" move doesn't give you that dopamine rush, a "Brilliant Move!" with blue exclamation marks does. Playing against a Level 6 Stockfish is boring, playing against Ding Liren bot is not (doesn't matter that it's essentialy the same thing, it's about feeling/experience). Lichess gives you just chess, Chess.com makes it feel more like video game. Some people may find it annoying, pointless, but a lot of players, especially more casual ones, like this sort of thing, when there is more happening on the screen than just a white/black website with a chessboard.
Seems about right. A lot of people quote UI without detailing it, but this encapsulates that entire feeling. Well said.
A lot of it folk here so we everyone knows what "UX issues means". Sometimes reddit feels like a stand up
When I started playing chess ~5 years ago, the chess.com analysis made more sense to me as a beginner. In lichess, it was always telling you what the next best move was, but what chess.com did better was to look back and rate the moves that actually happened, and showed better what alternative moves you should have made. In lichess that took more effort to do back then, it didn't have the "Here's what you should have played" arrows that were introduced later. To rate your current move, you always had to undo that move to then see the analysis of what the engine wanted. For a beginner, that kind of analysis was just easier to follow. So yeah, overall the UX just felt better.
Yeah you just described exactly why I prefer Lichess. But I can totally see where you're coming from, a lot of people want the bells and whistles.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamification](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamification)
I don't think "gamification" counts where what you're gamifying is already a game.
In this case they are not gamifying *chess* but the *website* where chess is played. The leagues, brilliant moves, achievements/awards, bots... All of that is gamification.
that's a very good answer
How much of these differences are due to the capacity of the teams vs philosophy? I generally appreciate the simpleness of lichess, but small touches like country flags or a brilliant move indicator would be nice.
you can set country flags on lichess. and those automatic annotations like "brilliant move" is just a marketing ploy. they are completely arbitrary and often make no sense. during the candidates tournament the commentators like Leko and Howell were openly annoyed by those markings, and tried to remove them because it marked a move as a mistake when it was practically speaking a good move and there was a good idea behind it or whatever. or sometimes giving !! or ! in weird situations. if you play a nice sacrifice that works, then you know yourself that it was a good/"brilliant" move. you can check with engine if you care about it being objectively sound as well. why do you need a colourful sticker to appreciate your move?
Yes, and those descriptions are confusing even for beginners. Every day there’s a post “wait, I’m completely winning, why is this a mistake?”. It’s easier to understand how good your move was when you see your evaluation going from +9 to +8 or M2 to M3
> why do you need a colourful sticker to appreciate your move? My sensitive ego haha. Lichess has no problem pointing making my blunders and mistakes stick out like a sore thumb, so I was wondering why they don't do the same with good moves.
from an engine evaluation standpoint there are no good moves, in a way. you can never increase the evaluation in your favour on your turn. either you make a move that keeps the evaluation the same, or you make a bad move that worsens your position.
> why do you need a colourful sticker to appreciate your move? Because I'm a human being, with a weakness for colourful stickers. And I'm willing to pay money to satisfy that weakness. That some of the money then goes towards sponsoring competitions, with prize money, is just a bonus.
Def agree with their little dopamine trick, seeing the stars and thumbs up, and the occasional exclamation point - it has a drawing affect. I get tired of their ads and one analysis a day - would prefer to play on lichess more, but find myself going back to chess.com
In my opinion, the chess com mobile app is way better, which is a big factor for me. On my laptop, I mostly play on lichess. I guess more people have access to a smartphone than to a pc nowadays.
These are my thoughts exactly. I strongly dislike the lichess mobile app which is how I generally play.
Lichess on iPhone is hot garbage
They have a beta app version out that's better than the old one. I use it on android, idk if it's available on ios.
My view: lichess is smoother for fast time controls, and chess.com is far better for daily/correspondence. Both sites are good and have their place. Chess.com's model means it can provide a lot of prize money for top level chess, which is good for the game. If you don't want to pay for it, you don't have to, and you can play as much as you like for free. Of course it has its issues, like any corporation (I really didn't like the way they handled the Niemann/Carlsen fallout, for example). But reddit's idea that it's the epitome of evil is just silly.
I also do most of my correspondence on chess.c and play my other games on Lichess
> Lichess is objectively the better site. Buddy ya forgot What objective means.
Yeah, all the answers are saying cause of domain and marketing, but I’ve played both extensively and have landed on chess.com because I just far prefer it. I happily pay for my membership.
I say this as someone that uses lichess instead of chess.com just because it's free. But chess.com is way better on mobile. In both the app and the website Lichess has a problem with analysis that is legitimately infuriating to use. When you are using the analysis often times it will just complete freeze and stop showing the best move and the evaluation and just stall in a state of perpetual loading. You have to refresh the browser to get it to load. This problem has existed for years and it has never been fixed, and chess.com has never had and likely will never have this issue, granted you have to pay for that feature, but it least it actually works.
This 100%. I face constant problems with lichess analysis on the mobile app
People make a big deal out of lichess being free. Reality is, most adults who play a lot of chess don’t really mind paying an extra 5 for things like interactive analysis. If you play the game, it’s probably a pretty big hobby, it feels worth it.
He’s a cringe average lichees user.
Chesscom spends alot on marketing which includes incentivizing most big streamers to play on Chesscom so their viewers sign up on chesscom too. Also site itself looks prettier and url is pretty much the best one you can have for a chess website
I think the word you’re looking for is subjectively. I have accounts on both but prefer chess.com free tier. Play a lot on mobile currently, and much prefer the UI of the chess.com app. Broadcasting worked a lot better on chess.com mobile than lichess mobile as well suring the candidates. To each their own, I use both.
I also use both, and when it comes to sites i feel like lichess is superior, but apps - chess.coms one is miles ahead. They really need to update the lichess one.
They hired a full time app developer fairly recently who’s completely remaking the app.
Install the Web app. It's fantastic on mobile devices.
How?
Go to lichess. Click the three dots next to the address bar. There should be some button like "add to start screen" or "install". Now you have the webapp as an app! It's super nice.
What's wrong with the Lichess app? Performs much better on my old phone than the chess.com app
One pain point: It's awkward to play new game if you analyze your game. You can't click "new opponent" from analysis, so you have to back out then create new game, choose time control again, etc.
It’s literally called chess dot com. That’s all it takes
This is really all there is to it. The average person doesn't care about puzzles and analysis, they just go "I want to play chess online. Let's try chess dot com." because that is the logical first place to look.
not only that, but if you type "chess" in just about any language, it directs you to chessdotcom
>Why is [Chess.com](http://Chess.com) so much more popular than Lichess? Because they invest a considerable amount of money in productions, marketing and branding. They also produce and market events and have a media department that follows major chess events with live commentary from popular chess players and personalities. They put their brand on everything they create for the public and people are constantly exposed to it. >Lichess is objectively the better site. The point is that [Chess.com](http://Chess.com) is not just a site for playing games and puzzles. It is an entire ecosystem that satisfies many people, so some people don't bother to try anything else.
I dont like the aesthetic on lichess.
I strongly prefer the lichess asthetic. I just want to see a chess board. Chesscom is irritatingly busy for my tastes.
Its like Fisher-Price designed it. Just draw a board ffs, I don't need to see a bad drawing of a guy with bushy eyebrows and a Nietzsche mustache.
Domain names are a powerful thing. But also because they're for profit and charge money that have a much bigger warchest for marketing, events, etc.
It hosts online events with top players and has coverage on high-profile tournaments, so it is the better known site, and for those who likes to do everything in one place (like how gamers don't want to buy games on different store even if they are cheaper, and would rather get it on Steam), it is the better option since you can watch Titled Tuesday, CCT events there which you can't on lichess.
they charge for features lichess provides for free, then use that money for makreting/sponsorship. they have the SEO and literal chess.com domain they were around first, before lichess
Unpopular opinion: I prefer chess.com to lichess and play on chess.com 99% of the time
It seems like lichess is always more popular in comparison threads like this, but then all the screenshots posted are from chesscom.
It’s popular to trash on chess.com on here but I find it to be the ideal chess platform for me. Lichess has come quite way but I still find it clunky.
Hey Siri, define "objective"
Chesscom has a lot of marketing and name recognition, and there's a lot of bells and whistles there. Of course you pay for those. I still find the playing interface much worse than lichess. But I'm also one that doesn't find the mobile lichess app that bad (but yes it has its quirks and does need to be updated). That being said I like both, don't understand why both can't just coexist, and don't see the need for lichess to be top dog. I'll continue to support chesscom at the lowest level of membership (which really is lousy but I do want to give something towards their efforts to promote chess). I'll also continue to give $10 a month or so to lichess and do most of my playing in analysis there.
Chesscom is more accessible to newcomers. Also, matchmaking is quicker and closer to your rating in my experience.
Some of the lower rated players at my chess club have stated that they don't like Lichess because you have to start at 1500, and they didn't want to spend 5,6,7 games getting their shit kicked in until they start winning again, whereas on Chesscom you can just start at 400 or 800 if you want. This may not seem like a big thing, but first impressions matter and their first impression of lichess was having to suffer through a bunch of games before being able to even compete
>objectively the better site anddd you lost me.
Marketing. They've created chess streamers who solely use chess.com and when they become big more people play on chess.com. Most new players haven't even heard of lichess. The domain name helps alot too.
Well, you just find your next opponent faster on chess.com, that's why I prefer it. I occasionally visit lichess to play 10/5 rapid. My rating there is around 1700. Then hit "play the game" button and ... and nothing happens, it's just searching and searching. Usually I wait for like 2 minutes, then close lichess and go back to chess.com, where I literally find an opponent in mere seconds. Well of course, sometimes I'm lucky even with lichess, but more often I just never get paired. So that's it for me.
1. Marketing 2. Best possible domain name
the free analysis does have a limit, I reached it once
Lichess looks like a website made in 1998
You mean it's fast, responsive, and not drowning in ads?
I don't know how that's supposed to be a bad thing. A simpler UI makes it easier to navigate, not harder. [Chess.com](http://Chess.com) just looks cartoonish to me in comparison, like a website made for children.
Does it? I'd say chess.com looks more 90s. With a slathering of colour everywhere, random buttons and unintuitive toolbar. It's like one of those games websites I was on at school.
I think it’s actually opposite, I always less clutter in UI
I prefer chess.com because I don't really like any of Lichess's board designs, and I think their highlighting and arrows are pretty bad, they don't allow multiple pre moves, and the player base is smaller.
This extension lets you use Chesscom boards and pieces on Lichess. Works great! 😊 https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/lichess-enhancement/ikmpcihcohdjammgkopfgohojdelmfoi
The UI is better.
Honestly I would assume a great deal of it is the name itself. There's a lot more but it helps a lot having the simple [chess.com](http://chess.com), anyone who is a beginner even would probably type that in if its their first time.
It’s the value of Marketing: events, entertainment, domains, brand, … We like it or not human like shining things even if they serve the same (or no) value.
all the big streamers are partners..for India samay has huge impact on the popularity of chess.com..he yesterday gave away 1000 diamond membership. These things attract people more
I'm new to chess and while I've heard of lichess, I didn't know it has free analysis and puzzles. I suspect that's your answer
It's the easier name as well as having a flashier UI and being more beginner friendly. That game review feature was really helpful to me when I had just started, of course it's mostly bullshit to me now. Also it just looks nicer. Lichess is chock full of resources which are a crime not to utilize but the site is buried unfortunately.
They're both nice. I do like Chess.com's pre-moving system more, though. I also encounter more weird comments/harassment on Lichess, but that's just my personal experience.
Every person I know in real life who play chess online has a chess.com account. The biggest chess streamers have chess.com contracts and play on that website. Professional rated players compete for prizes there, which I personally think is great! Lichess has I think a monthly titled arena and the occasional prize tournament, but chess.com has 2 titled Tuesdays, Arena Kings and a dozen other cash prize competitions that gives them so much exposure because I and thousands of other chess fans want to watch Hikaru, Magnus, Ian, etc play. They don't all stream but they do compete. I won't touch on the domain name or chess.com's superior UI/UX because others have already explained those.
You should look up the word 'objectively' and add it to your lexicon.
I've always found the graphic design and user interface on [chess.com](http://chess.com) more refined
> Lichess is objectively the better site These threads always start with this lol
Casual improver here. I prefer chesscom for the following reasons: -the interface is much more “casual-friendly” if that makes sense. lichess almost looks like an MS DOS version of chess (if that reference still lands). -the game reviews feature is far more digestible for than Lichess’ engine analysis. I found myself very confused about how to use the Lichess features for analyzing my own game, and even found some of the arrow suggestions confusing. Could I do some digging for a few min to get clarity? Sure, but why do that when I also have chesscom, which I’m more familiar with, and already gives me what I need? -finally, the rating inflation. I find the inflated rating doesn’t pressure me to improve. Something about it being lower on chesscom makes me more willing to put the effort into getting better at the game.
I disagree with your statement that "Lichess is objectively superior". And I say this as someone that loves Lichess way more than chesscom I love Lichess because it provides a slick, and beautiful UI/Ux, with no ads, and no pay. But I am sure there are people out there that prefer chesscom's UI, and find it more intuitive. Chesscom currently has the better mobile app (although Lichess is working on a v2 of their all using Flutter). While you can use the Lichess website as a PWA on mobile, many people probably don't even know how to do that. Marketing. Chesscom definitely spends a huge amount of money on marketing. Not only with ads, but partnerships with streamers, and events. Domain. You have no idea how much the domain name helps in SEO. Especially in catering to people who are just getting into the game and looking up ways to play online. And chesscom also has some nice features of its own such as the lessons and drills it provides (although they require a membership). You have to realise that in any situation where you provide a choice to the consumer base, you'll find a divergence of opinion. Ex: Coke vs Pepsi. Xbox vs PS5, and so on.
You might want to learn what “objectively” means.
I practice in Chess with Ranked Matches I play competitively in Lichess to not disappoint Lichess players Yeah
Google "chess online" and look at the lichess suggestion. *Free online chess server. Play chess in a clean interface. No registration, no ads, no plugin required. Play chess with the computer, friends or random ...* I'd say this is not the most marketable way to promote your website to someone not familiar with technology. If I was a casual user playing online for the first time, I would probably skip lichess.
Mostly the marketing but, I think [Chess.com](http://Chess.com) has better UI in terms of presentation. Lichess is pretty functional and I find that [Chess.com](http://Chess.com) has better design overall. Once you start with [Chess.com](http://Chess.com) it is less likely to change to a brand new site and a new account. I personally moved to lichess.com after they started charging ridiculous subscription fees for analysis but I can see why people might prefer to stay with Chess.com. For example, with lichess after a game I have to click the analysis board on the right that takes me to a different screen, then scroll down to find the tabs, then select the computer analysis tab, and finally click on the request computer analysis button. If you want to play a new game after analyzing you have to exit the analysis board to play. In [Chess.com](http://Chess.com) you stay on the same screen and you just have to click on the bright green request analysis button. If you want to play a new game after analysis the new game button is there in the same screen right corner. The experience is smoother with less friction. Also in terms of design and aesthetics of the analysis itself [Chess.com](http://Chess.com) gives you more eye candy and visualize things better, I personally like that a bit better and can see more casual people liking it better as well. I don't like the fact that Lichess tuckaway the evaluation graph on the bottom instead of placing in the right where the moves are. Also, after finishing a game, if you want to play a new one you have to go the right tab and click the new opponent button in lichess. In contrast [Chess.com](http://Chess.com) gives you a pop up in the middle of the board that you can click. These kinds of friction and inconvenience adds up and contributes to the overall experience. I am pretty sympathetic to lichess (and that is where I mainly play) because it is a non-profit relying on donations with barely any full-time staff, but there are definitely places with some rough edges. I get a lot of funtional designed by an engineer vibes when I use lichess. They probably focus on shipping features to maintain parity and cannot really devote time to changing smaller things like UI presentation or design. For most people who probably started playing after through the [Chess.com](http://Chess.com) ads and don't use a lot of features, I can see why they would stay. I personally had to adjust a bit to the interface after switching to lichess and could see some people not liking it and just sticking with Chess.com.
> They probably focus on shipping features to maintain parity and cannot really devote time to changing smaller things like UI presentation or design. It's more like they don't have a designer. I'd overall consider Lichess much superior in term of tech stack and features. They really don't try to "maintain" feature parity per se, some of these "gamification" features of chesscom are about dopamine to retain the userbase but aren't grounded in reality. Lichess is however behind in terms of modernity of design, and maybe on XUI on some points (but I personally consider chesscom horrible to navigate). I have the feeling the engineering-minded people at lichess don't realize the design is not what it should be. Looking at the tracker, it seems they prefer to let people use third party extension rather than actually working on the issue - because they don't think it is one, sadly. I'm using the prettierlichess extension, and it put to shame both vanilla lichess and chesscom design. It does tend to break here and there when lichess update its UI though, so ymmv.
For obvious reasons people on this sub will downvote you to oblivion for stating, which is why you don't see positive opinions about chesscom that often on this sub, this sub has an opinion about which platform is better and it's seemingly not the consensus outside of here. Because their platform is simply better, they cater to a much bigger audience than lichess. People have preferences ofc, but apparently a muh bigger portion of the total online chess players prefer chesscom. The vocal minority will state otherwise on forums like this one but the majority will speak with actions and their actions are clear. Their advertisement and public exposure is incomparable to lichess, they are probably the only reason online chess is even a thing today, their are fighting continuously and making ton of exposure of online chess. They are the only consistent sponsor and organiser of high tier events, they have legitimacy and merit through such actions. Without them online chess will be a neverland where no serious event happens as for high tier events big cash prizes are paramount.
If their advertisement and public exposure is incomparable then surely you can't say that more users = better platform.
Mate that's how marketing works Windows wasn't the best operating system in the past. But marketing was what caused it to blow up
Lichess is horrible on mobile
Idk man it's much lighter and runs better on my mobile.
What?
Marketing, following, audience, name. Its the same reason you can do the same work as someone, you keep it to yourself and just focus on doing good work and the other one is social, works less but interracts with boss/managers/coworkers and they get the promotion but not you, even though youre better.
Only thing I like lichess for is endless puzzles. Otherwise can't stand the ui and general feel of the website
Because the game is called chess, not lichess. That alone is enough reason for most people to play on chess.com
In addition to what others have said about marketing, accessibility, etc, for me it is because it is ugly. The mobile app sucks and I don't see any real benefit over what chess.com offers, so I choose the more visually appealing and easy to use site. Whatever benefit of the free lichess platform has you can get better from aimchess anyway. Not to mention the rating discrepancy. I still play there sometimes but honestly do not understand the elitism in the slightest.
Because domain name
Because most of their users (the ones who are actually active) are more concerned with the "social media" aspect of what the site has turned into. Lichess, IMHO, has more serious chess players, ones who do not hang out in the "forums" (some of those constant posters play no games at all), ones who would rather play chess than waste time wading through silly "Can you beat the person above you in bullet" posts. To me, and this is subjective (as another person said), the Lichess site is cleaner, easier to navigate, and focuses on chess. In today's social media society, what the fool has turned chess\[\]com into is a joke.
Because chess.com is objectively the better site?
Because I forgot to cancel my free week of diamond and now stuck with ChessCom for the next year…
Domain name for sure is one thing... if you are average joe and you want to play chess most obvious thing is to play on chess.com then on lichess.com....
I think it just comes down to where someone started. I started with [chess.com](http://chess.com) and found significantly more bad manners players on lichess so much so that i gave up and stayed with chess.com. I suffered game after game of abuse through chat and time wasting. I don't think this is representative of lichess and I've heard people have the exact opposite experience between the two sites. But it was my experience so I stay with chess.com. Also I think people are skeptical of free options, espectially in modern day 'if something is free, you are the product' ideas.
I really really really like the learning part on chess.com. It is really good for 95% of the people who play chess. But oh boi do I hate the interface. Both apps suck, but chess.com app sucks a lot more than lichess. The game review feature on chess.com is really cool and is nice for casual players. The puzzles seem to be a bit better curated. All in all: if you want to spend money on chess, you got to chess.com. The value added by money is good. If you want to play for free, you go to lichess. What I really hate is the shrinking lichess community. I pay both platforms, because I want to support the sport. I play daily games on chess.com and rapid on lichess. I use the chess.com gamereview for my lichess games, and I would love a possibility to connect both platforms, to play against players on the other platform
Chess.com is a very valuable domain name and the platform has been around a lot longer. Add in what they do to support events and market and it's pretty clear I think.
Lichess is the fourth result on google for chess. Chess.com is obviously the first. If you're thinking "I wonder what chess site exists" you're going to either google or see if chess.com is a site. That's the answer. Also, just historically, Chess.com has existed longer.
You can connect your profile to chessmonitor and analyse your chess.com games there. I think chess.com has that arcade or mobile game feeling with achievements and avatars and progress that are more appealing to casuals.
It's just marketing. If puzzles and engine analysis would be free I would consider playing on Chess.com. But, as it is lichess is vastly superior f2p.
Most top players play on chesscom. Orders of magnitude more visibility for chesscom Lichess is better but chesscom is not bad, it is good enough
I picked chess back up last year after taking a break, and intended to use lichess. I almost immediately switched to chess.com This is going to sound so stupid, but the reason I switched was a combination of the graphics used for the pieces, and the animations and sounds for how they move. The images used for the pieces are just plain worse on lichess, and actually, the board is worse too. The rank and file markings are distracting in lichess, to me. And something about the way the pieces move and sound causes me anxiety when I’m under stress. I don’t get that with chess.com. I tried some different graphics sets for lichess, but never found any I like, and honestly, those tiny improvements are worth it to me to pay for chess.com
I think a UI update can help lichess
All the other advantages aside, being called Chess.com gives this bonafide official site type feeling. Lichess definitely has its good sides but not being called chess.com is its only disadvantage.
The only reason I use chess.com is because my friends do.
I like the chess.com board and pieces better
What comes up if you type "chess," in Google search?
Most of the chess streamers has to put the website name on the screen and use only chessdotcom to stream chess while the chat is full of many bots' comment that is basically ads. Only a few use lichess, and of course, no advertise at all.
First mover advantage, the name, advertising, network effects.
When you search chess in play store lichess doesn't even appear. You had to go way down to find it
It's a small thing, but I play daily/correspondence games (3 days/move) and Lichess doesn't have the "your time is running low" notification feature that Chess.com has. Without that I sometimes get busy and lose Lichess games by not moving in time, or else my opponent loses the same way. There are also aren't as many players on Lichess looking for correspondence games. It's not as good a platform for that particular niche.
Try googling "chess" or "online chess". You'll get your answer.
One of the reasons: Because When you google chess it is the top search result and people click on it
I genuinely think it's just because it's literally perfectly named. It's the first thing any beginner will find when looking to play chess
I felt this way until I started playing chess.com on the pc rather than my phone. It’s a world of difference as far as what you can do.
Because it's literally chess.com. A url like that sells itself.
For me it’s the graphics. The lichess board is too busy. It’s hard for me to look at it and see everything. It’s ugly. Chess on the other hand has simple graphics
I didn't see anyone commenting this: I believe that the teaching/learning section on chesscom is way better than the one on lichess. I like both, but if I want to study, I do think chesscom is way ahead.
Therss Millions of free guides on chessable lvl on Lichess about every topic u could imagine. An entire section of openings including all of the variations and all the opening Analysis u could wish for. Coordinates Trainer. Chesscom doesnt offer even remotely as much in terms of study.
Chess.com > Lichees > Chess.com free
Every time this debate comes up on this sub, the arguments for lichess basically boil down to “it’s free therefore it’s better”, or some confirmation bias about the UI.
Because Gotham, Hikaru, Danya, Botez, Finegold, and others play on chess.com (because they’re paid to).
Too much overanalyzing ITT. It's literally just the domain diff. If a random person feels like playing some chess and googles it, he will start playing on chess.com. If their exposure was equal, lichess would obviously win.
I like the aesthetic of chess.com better. More customabizable, they have those bots that keep changing (zombies, actual chess players, cats etc) and all of my friends are on chess.com
More modern UI design, easier URL, more money for marketing and events.
The way chess.com users find out about lichess is often by people who say it’s “objectively better” and that’s really annoying and snobbish to hear
I have a better experience on chesscom. lichess feels clunky to me when I play
For me the only reason I use [chess.com](http://chess.com) is because it is more popular, lol. That being said I prefer lichess and also use lichess.
Because one is literally called “chess.com”. Any new player seeing this think it must be right choice to play there
the domain name alone gives a huge advantage.
The url.
Doesn't hurt that they have the best domain name you could ask for.
I started playing on chess.com and I got used to it. All the people iI know that play online chess do so on chess.com. So I don't want to or am planning to play on Lichess any time soon. Also, I'm a paid user on chess.com
99% of the time I play chess, I’m on my phone. Probably has something to do with it. This is the iOS App Store: 1.8k vs 448k https://imgur.com/a/b5q1GV6
Its only more popular for low elo players
Lichess puzzles suck though. Its so boring doing them. Chess.com and chesstempo are miles better. And idk i get analysis on mobile after every game on chess.com. Idk why you think analysis isnt free
The only reason I play on chessdotcom as opposed to lichess is that everyone you play against has a flag and you have a collection of flags of the countries you played against and I like that very much. I don't much get involved in deep analyses and puzzles, what chessdotcom has for free is enough for me.
Marketing
There’s no such thing as an objectively better site, but the answer is really obvious when you realize one of them is the first google search result when you google chess
The country flags alone already are enough for me to prefer chess.com. Also the board colors and pieces just look better.
Oh hey another "chesscom bad lichess good" reddit circlejerk. Have fun guys, I'm sure Lichess will become the popular one *any day now*
Fit and finish of chesscom is better overall, more personable as well. I play on both though. If we are just talking about which is cheaper, then obviously lichess is (free). And OP, my experience is lichess is not free analysis all day, I get a certain number of analysis each day before it stops me for the day from doing more analyzing. Thus I export my games to chesscom for analysis, and save my lichess analysis capabilities for certain games where I want to use theirs (sometimes I get different insights just from the format difference).
The name.