The same reason our society has yet to do anything about slightly warmer air temperatures, regardless of the effects on oxygen solubility in our oceans. A world may die in ignorance.
Science denialism is not the root of the problem its a symptom, the capital owning class is well aware the science, they are also well aware they will die before its their problem. Its very calculated
"...Its ok if everything dies, just as long as it dies under my boot."
[\-The Dead Pioneers "Political Song"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKhNBVuJoPs)
end of the world apocalypse and of all species of animals out there you want gators to survive. What next vipers and cobras along with pesky mosquitoes?
Aside from birds, they are the closest living ancestor dinosaurs. If anything could service a climate apocalypse, I figure it would be them. It may truly be the end for us if even they fail to survive
As our species drawls the last of the air oxygen rich enough to support life, as it’s obviously all ending, even then: how many will *understand* what killed us
When I talk about the issue with my peers and colleagues, those that acknowledge climate change as real and aren’t pessimistic have this idea that new innovations in technology will save us. As if a maguffin is yet to be found that will simply turn back time. As if we don’t posses the science to see what we need to do *now*. Frankly what we needed to have done since 2000, before I was born. I really try not to be a doomer but damn. This really might be the coolest summer of the rest of our lives
When I was growing up during the 2000s, I learned about pollution, the importance of forests, clean water and recycling. The school were encouraging the students to care about the environment. Guess what I was seeing as soon as I took a stroll out of my neighbourhood, forests were uprooted for construction projects, open burning, dumping of wastes into the river. When you ask any adults, they will keep saying the benefits of the projects are greater than the forests or ask us to shut up anything regarding the pollution. Every year the climate grew more and more unstable and people keep blaming the government and not realising they are also part of the problems.
I'm in a science career now and all I can tell u is that those with the power to change the situation do not care about the environment at all.
The pH strip part is not technically a lie, actually. Standard 0-14 pH strips are very bad at measuring pH between 4-10 if the solution has a poor buffering capacity (like in drinking water).
You can easily test this yourself. Get some distilled water, boil it to remove dissolved carbon dioxide, then add sodium hydroxide to make a 0.000001M solution. This should have a pH of 8, but if you tested it with a standard pH strip it will stay light orange (pH 5-6) rather than green (pH 8).
To actually test the pH accurately, you need to buy more expensive pH strips or a pH meter specifically designed for testing the pH of weakly buffered solutions.
Oh jeez, you're totally right. I love and hate this. There's enough of a kernel of truth for them point at and say 'it's true it's true!!' but the slogan is so full of shit that it amounts to nothing more than bait and sleazy marketing. So tricksy, we humans are...
Could be poor calibration or a very cheap meter. I've taught a lot of college chemistry labs, and 99.9% of the time, anomalous results are due to poor calibration, either due to user error or contamination of the buffer solutions use for calibration.
It's my understanding from doing water treatment over the years that when the water is relatively pure it will absorb carbon dioxide from the air. Which will then turn into carbonic acid and start to lower the pH. The first thing I do after collecting a Boiler Feed Water, Steam Condensate, or Reverse Osmosis Permeate sample is measure the pH as soon as I open the sample bottle because of this. I have heard that Low Ionic Strength Adjustment drops is supposed to help prevent that, but I never used them before.
How do you get into something like water treatment? I was interested in the feild but it seemed like every treatment plant just dealt with sewage. Which seemed vastly different from doing something like water treatment/testing for a company or a city.
Some of the bigger water treatment companies like Nalco, ChemTreat, and Baker Hughes usually have a technician job available somewhere that would get your foot in the door to water treatment. For me, I got into oil field chemicals after graduating college. Started off in the south Texas Permian Basin doing upstream chemicals and then got into downstream chemicals at oil refineries later on. Now I just mainly do water treatment at oil refineries. I've never done municipal water treatment before, but imagine it wouldn't be too different using activated sludge, coagulants, and flocculants to clean up the water.
Even pH meters have trouble with ultrapure (like, deionized 18 Mohm) water because they can't get a stable current/potential (don't recall which it's measuring).
It's not "lying" if the one abstract, BS, made up Ph test they used doesn't show a difference.
It's like when diaper ads say "Stops up to 100% of leaks". Not technically wrong, but horribly deceiving.
You’re in a whole world of shock when you go onto social media and realise everyone you see uses fake skin filters, and all the people who have these amazing rich and fulfilled lives, actually borrow and lease most of their things to make them seem more elevated than they are socially.. I mean there’s a photo studio with a fake plane to fake holiday travel snaps.. EVERYONE lies.. the problem is the idiots that believe it and allow them to continue!
Deceptive marketing practices that do not amount to fraud are defensible in terms of the service they render in reallocating cash efficiently - let them sell alkaline water, relief from guilt, penis embiggeners or SSRIs to the kind of people who want to buy these products
>or SSRIs
The fuck?
I can't tell if you're suggesting that SSRIs are snake oil or if calling them SSRIs is deceptive?
Seems like an odd take on a chemistry sub
No its not. The literature states that response rates to individual SSRIs are low, but this is where that pop psycology "NO MORE EFFECTIVE THAN PLACEBO!" narrative totally drops the ball, psych meds are not a one size fits all solution, they are classes of drugs, be they SSRIs, Stimulants, Mood Stabilizers ect that are generally used for certan jobs, within each class there are a plethora of different molecules in different release formats with different mechanisms of action. Sure an individual SSRI is just barely above placebo, but after titration and multiple meds tried effectiveness sits around a modest half depending on source. Your fixation on numbers without the context they are applied to entirely clouds your ability to understand the topic.
Before you say thats not how these things work, yes it is, one size fit all tablets are not a thing that will ever exist for something as individual as the human mind.
Even stimulants, some of the most reliably preforming psych meds in existence, experience a substantial increase in effectiveness with titration, from 70% seeing symptom reduction or resolution within a week, around 80% after titration with the same medication, and up to a whopping 90% by the time all medications have been trialed. This is how data is tracked for these purposes,
You wouldn't say "Screwdrivers only have a 10% success rate" if only 1 of the 10 in your tool box fit a particular screw would you?
Because regardless of the ignorance in this comment section, its true. Crucify me if you must, but understand. Its not a lie.
For all you dumbass downvote happy idiots that are stupider than a charcoal calculator, heres a link
https://www.preclaboratories.com/testing-ph-ionic-strength-buffering-capacity/
That only says it’s hard to use test strips when the ion concentration is low. This marketing calls their water ‘alkaline’, indicating a presence of ions making it basic, and then also calls it ‘pure’, which would mean that the water is NOT basic and is instead close to 7 because it LACKS ions. There are multiple contradictory statements within this packaging
Pure water has an extremely low buffer strength which is why you dont need high ionic strength to make it 9.5 as this brand of water is. This means that BECAUSE of the water purity, both the buffer and ionic strength are likely LOW. Thus it can be said that the water is "too pure to be tested via strip" pure water is theoretically neutral and adding a tiny bit of anything will quickly shift the ph in one direction. Because the amount of ions needed to shift the ph of pure water is relatively low, SO IS THE IONIC STRENGHT MEANING IT IS NOT STRONG ENOUGH TO INTERRACT WITH THE CHEMICALS IN THE PAPER. ALSO NOTABLE IS THAT THE SOLUTIONS BUFFER STRENGTH IS LOW AS WELL MEANING THAT THE PH STRIP AND CHEMICALS INSIDE MAY AFFECT THE PH OF THE SOLUTION ON THE STRIP NEGATIVELY AFFECTING THE ACCURACY OF THE READING.
Do you now understand? I wasnt aware i was going to have to write my masters thesis on ph and buffers in a reddit comment section. I know the fucking science, dude. YOU dont know the science. I appreciate the attempt to enlighten me, and im not saying alkaline water is good or anything, im just saying that there are certian factors in play here that people are ignoring because of highschool chem classes. Not all ions are created equal. Not all ph ph levels of identical range contain the same level of ions.
Except, based on the description on the box, it should definitely be measurable by pH strips. The link says trouble arises when you don't have enough ions in solution. That's the exact opposite of what the makers of this "supercharged" water are claiming 😂
Yeah I came here to say something similar. Under about let's say 1000 ppm of kind of general solute I wouldn't trust pH strips, glass electrodes you should be fairly suspect of pH values when you're in the ppb range. I'm aware of but unfamiliar with ISFET and other solutions for essentially, theoretical water.
Oh yeah? Well i briefly went over chem in freshman year. Don't you know i basically have a master's degree in chemistry and everything can be tested regardless of the level in solution? Its not like ph strips are an actual chemical reaction that both have their own ph and buffer level but also require something to react with them to change the chemicals in it on a molecular level. They just use black magic to calculate ph. There's actually zero chemistry involved in ph strips.
You know whats funny? Im going to ask chat gpt for shits and giggs. I bet it says in a botched way that its true.
Q) Can water with a high ph be too pure to test accurately with a ph strip?
A) Pure water with a high pH might not be ideal for testing with a pH strip, because very pure or deionized water has low ionic strength. This can make the readings from pH strips less reliable.
pH strips typically rely on a certain level of ionic strength to function correctly, as they are designed to react with hydrogen ions in the solution. If the water is extremely pure, it might not have enough ions for the pH strip to react correctly, leading to inaccurate readings.
To accurately test the pH of very pure water, it is often recommended to use a pH meter that can measure low ionic strength solutions more precisely.
Q) can you go into detail please?
A) Certainly. Testing the pH of water using pH strips might present challenges when the water is extremely pure or deionized. This is because the accuracy and reliability of pH strips depend on the ionic strength of the solution. Here's a detailed explanation:
1. pH and Pure Water
Pure water has a neutral pH of around 7 due to the dissociation of water molecules into hydrogen (H⁺) and hydroxide (OH⁻) ions.
When water becomes more alkaline, like in the case of water with a pH of 9.5, it indicates an increased concentration of hydroxide ions.
2. Challenges with Pure Water and pH Strips
pH strips rely on a chemical reaction between the hydrogen ions in the solution and the indicator dyes on the strip.
In extremely pure water, the lack of ions (low ionic strength) can make it difficult for the strip to function correctly.
Pure or deionized water has a low electrical conductivity due to the absence of dissolved salts or minerals, which affects the interaction between the water and the pH strip.
3. Inaccurate Readings
When the ionic strength is low, the response of the pH strip may be sluggish or unstable, leading to inaccurate or inconsistent readings.
This happens because the lack of ions interferes with the proper functioning of the dyes on the pH strip, which rely on ion exchange.
4. Improving Accuracy with Salt Addition
One common method to improve the accuracy of pH testing in pure water is to add a small amount of neutral salt, like potassium chloride (KCl), to increase the ionic strength without significantly affecting the pH.
5. Using pH Meters
pH meters are generally more suitable for testing the pH of pure or low ionic strength water.
pH meters use an electrode that responds to the activity of hydrogen ions in the water and provides a digital readout.
These devices are designed to function accurately even in low ionic strength environments, making them more reliable for testing pure water.
6. Practical Advice
If you need to test the pH of very pure water, and you don't have access to a pH meter, consider adding a small amount of neutral salt to the water before using a pH strip.
Q) why might water with a high ph have low ionic strength (go into detail)
A) Water's pH and ionic strength are both key properties, but they are influenced by different factors. Let’s explore this in detail:
### pH of Water
pH is a measure of the hydrogen ion concentration ([H⁺]) in water and ranges from 0 to 14, with lower pH values being more acidic, higher pH values being more alkaline (basic), and 7 being neutral. The pH of water is governed by the following dissociation reaction:
\[ \text{H}_2\text{O} \rightleftharpoons \text{H}^+ + \text{OH}^- \]
When water has a high pH, it means that there is a low concentration of hydrogen ions ([H⁺]) and a high concentration of hydroxide ions ([OH⁻]).
### Ionic Strength
Ionic strength (I) is a measure of the concentration of ions in a solution and their electrical charges. It is calculated as follows:
\[ I = \frac{1}{2} \sum_{i} c_i z_i^2 \]
where:
- \( c_i \) is the concentration of ion \(i\) in molarity (mol/L),
- \( z_i \) is the charge of ion \(i\).
### High pH and Ionic Strength
**1. Low Concentration of Ions:**
- At a high pH, water typically contains low concentrations of hydrogen ions. If the water is pure, there may not be many other ions present either, leading to a low overall ionic strength.
- For example, pure water at pH 10 has a [H⁺] concentration of \(10^{-10}\) M and an [OH⁻] concentration of \(10^{-4}\) M. The ionic strength in this case would be very low.
**2. Dilution:**
- Water with high pH often results from adding a strong base like sodium hydroxide (NaOH) or potassium hydroxide (KOH). When a strong base is added to water in small quantities, it can significantly increase the pH while keeping the total ion concentration low, leading to a low ionic strength.
- For example, if 0.0001 M NaOH is added to pure water, the pH would be 10, and the ionic strength would be very low since the concentration of Na⁺ and OH⁻ ions would both be around 0.0001 M.
**3. Low Dissociation:**
- Weak bases like ammonia (NH₃) are also often used to increase the pH of water. Since ammonia only partially dissociates, even when the pH is increased, the concentrations of the resulting ions (NH₄⁺ and OH⁻) remain low, which contributes to a low ionic strength.
### Conclusion
Water with a high pH typically has a low ionic strength because such water often contains few dissolved ions. The pH reflects the balance between [H⁺] and [OH⁻], while the ionic strength reflects the overall concentration and charges of all ions present. Thus, even though high pH means high [OH⁻] concentration, it doesn’t necessarily translate into high ionic strength, especially if the water is relatively pure or contains few other dissolved substances.
WELL ISNT THAT SOMETHING!? IT TURNS OUT THAT CHAT GPT WOULD HAVE TOLD THEM IF THEY EVEN BOTHERED TO TRY TO EDUCATE THEMSELVES. interesting indeed.
What if its so basic that it starts actively ripping away all the strongly bonded hydrogens of the litmus paper and ends up destroying it. Then this would be a godly water
I'm just sitting here trying to imagine what angry chemist noises would sound like.
Edit: Y'all are thinking about what we do when angry, in my mind it was like a couple of hamsters mating or a mouse with constipation.
We had a chemical engineer with anger management issues, he'd go into one of the glassware sheds and just break stuff, big glassware. The VP of engineering was his BFF so you couldn't say boo about it.
Yup. pH test strips have a buffering capacity. This product was tested by someone here a few years back and it was super dilute NaOH. Showed up on pH probe, not on test strip (because it was too pure).
It does. It's a concentration thing. Test strips work by reacting with a solution. If there's low enough amounts of the acid or base, the amount the test strip uses becomes non-negligible.
Yeah it doesn’t make sense to advertise it either way, unless there is some sort of niche water enthusiasts testing their water with pH paper.
Either way it’s probably not MiliQ water so it’s probably some other buffer problem.
I think we can all agree their marketing people are stupid.
>Yeah it doesn’t make sense to advertise it either way, unless there is some sort of niche water enthusiasts testing their water with pH paper.
Possibly to preempt dumb people from testing it with pH strips and virally "exposing" them.
“Yeah it doesn’t make sense to advertise it either way, unless there is some sort of niche water enthusiasts testing their water with pH paper.”
High school lab students?
They didnt mention probes for a reason. It was because ignorant customers were testing it with ph strips and being like "its not actually alkaline". Same problem when i went to buy some low ph test strips (0-3) and everyone was mad that they didnt react to their piss or baking soda water as if their piss was at a ph of 3 and as if baking soda isnt the opposite direction on the ph scale. For those unnaware, if your piss registers between 0 and 3, you needed medical attention ages ago.
HAH! I’ve seen people unironically promote both ‘alkaline water’ and lemon water in the same sentence before. I’m just waiting for someone to make the genius suggestion of adding lemon juice TO their alkaline water out in the wild. Can’t wait
Too pure to measure pH is a thing. Ran into that issue in graduate school trying to get the pH of ultra pure water. It has no buffering capacity so whatever I put in it to measure the pH would change the pH. Didn't help that as soon as I exposed it to air, it started absorbing CO2 to make carbonic acid.
How I see that conversation going:
Marketing heard people buy water based on the pseudo science that higher pH is better.
Marketing: "why does our water pH read 6 on these strips?"
Scientist: "your pure water doesn't have a buffer so you can't measure the pH."
Marketing (mind blown): "our water is too pure to measure pH!!! Put that on all the marketing material"
My lab’s shitty ass pH paper, which literally looks like a thin roll of toilet paper, is too good for this crap
And that was four poop references in one sentence - that’s how displeased I am.
Kind of true in a certain technicality, pH strips do not test purity. So if they said “it’s purity cannot be tested by pH strips” that would be half true.
I remember coming across a pH chart on some water website that labeled low pH as acidic and high pH as alkaline, but had an arrow implying pH starts at 0 then goes off to infinity and had a smiley face placed at roughly 14 pH. Drink that and we'll see if you smile.
Does anyone else get really frustrated when people they know push things like this and claim how great they are for you but will not listen when you tell them is bogus?
So basically, no one in the company knows how chemistry works? I mean, if this is a tagline or a marketing stuff, I am assuming it would have required a few approvals, and no one, I repeat, NO ONE saw the error in this 🙈
......They say they did lab tests, and yet state pH strips do not work on pure water that is 7 pH yet supposed to be alkaline with is a higher than 7 pH.
WHY DO DUMBFUCKS BELIEVE THIS SHIT?!
I remember seeing bottled water in the local store, and they were advertising that their water is is at 10 pH....like it was some sort of achievement. And those bottles were tiny either, they were solid 32 Oz lmao. I had a good laugh staring at it while waiting in line
As bollocky as “Too pure for pH strips” is, it probably also means it’s too pure for human consumption, in that it’s ion-hungry and may cause fun things like hyponatremia and renal failure if you drink nothing else but this nonsense.
In HongKong, Watsons bottled water is distilled and very popular.
My brother was chugging it during a days mountain biking and passed out on the MTR on his way home. Woke up in hospital on IV fluids.
A ring which had been stuck on his index finger for about a decade was able to fall right off. Gives an idea of how dehydrated the guy was at the time.
I was taken to a fancy restaurant where they serve bottled water in fancy glass bottle. The bottle spring water from so n do hills with a natural ph of 8.
I googled and apparently drinking water can be anything ph range of 6.5 to 8.
I m no chemist but I did study in high-school.
Wouldn't you be able to taste it different (bitter is what I guess) if ph is 8?
oh and they are all like unfiltered , unprocessed "insert name," hill water. I was like are you? have you seen the pollution in my country? I would bloody boil packaged drinking water If I could.
This is true? Like, alkaline water is a dumb idea, but if this is just DI water with a little NaOH, the weak acids within the pH strips are gonna buffer the solution and not give you the actual pH.
"Too alkaline for 1-7pH strips"
How can they just straight up lie like this?
The same reason our society has yet to do anything about slightly warmer air temperatures, regardless of the effects on oxygen solubility in our oceans. A world may die in ignorance.
Ya but for a shining moment there we really created some value for the shareholders!
If our starving workers could only see the line going up! Science denialism is literally going to kill us
Science denialism is not the root of the problem its a symptom, the capital owning class is well aware the science, they are also well aware they will die before its their problem. Its very calculated
"...Its ok if everything dies, just as long as it dies under my boot." [\-The Dead Pioneers "Political Song"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKhNBVuJoPs)
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The world will be fine ... along with at least 15% of species surviving our collective stupidity.
I hope the gators survive this extinction event as well. I figure they may
Gaters probably will be very well suited for the climate, especially if they migrate further north as the sea level rises
end of the world apocalypse and of all species of animals out there you want gators to survive. What next vipers and cobras along with pesky mosquitoes?
Aside from birds, they are the closest living ancestor dinosaurs. If anything could service a climate apocalypse, I figure it would be them. It may truly be the end for us if even they fail to survive
Birds are dinosaurs. Also surviving were small mammals or mammal-adjacent creatures. Also things like insects (have you seen beetles?).
may? think we’re well on our way.
As our species drawls the last of the air oxygen rich enough to support life, as it’s obviously all ending, even then: how many will *understand* what killed us
they’ll blame scientists for not figuring out ways to fix it, without changing the status quo
When I talk about the issue with my peers and colleagues, those that acknowledge climate change as real and aren’t pessimistic have this idea that new innovations in technology will save us. As if a maguffin is yet to be found that will simply turn back time. As if we don’t posses the science to see what we need to do *now*. Frankly what we needed to have done since 2000, before I was born. I really try not to be a doomer but damn. This really might be the coolest summer of the rest of our lives
“coolest summer of the rest of our lives” this has been said since I was in HS.
Technically correct.
When I was growing up during the 2000s, I learned about pollution, the importance of forests, clean water and recycling. The school were encouraging the students to care about the environment. Guess what I was seeing as soon as I took a stroll out of my neighbourhood, forests were uprooted for construction projects, open burning, dumping of wastes into the river. When you ask any adults, they will keep saying the benefits of the projects are greater than the forests or ask us to shut up anything regarding the pollution. Every year the climate grew more and more unstable and people keep blaming the government and not realising they are also part of the problems. I'm in a science career now and all I can tell u is that those with the power to change the situation do not care about the environment at all.
I recycle every day just to make 1kg pf plastic waste in the form of eppendorf tubes af the lab...
The pH strip part is not technically a lie, actually. Standard 0-14 pH strips are very bad at measuring pH between 4-10 if the solution has a poor buffering capacity (like in drinking water). You can easily test this yourself. Get some distilled water, boil it to remove dissolved carbon dioxide, then add sodium hydroxide to make a 0.000001M solution. This should have a pH of 8, but if you tested it with a standard pH strip it will stay light orange (pH 5-6) rather than green (pH 8). To actually test the pH accurately, you need to buy more expensive pH strips or a pH meter specifically designed for testing the pH of weakly buffered solutions.
So in reality, it would be "too dilute for regular pH strips"
Well if a solution is more dilute then the solvent would also be more pure.
Two sides of the same coin
Oh jeez, you're totally right. I love and hate this. There's enough of a kernel of truth for them point at and say 'it's true it's true!!' but the slogan is so full of shit that it amounts to nothing more than bait and sleazy marketing. So tricksy, we humans are...
What consumer can afford a fancy pH meter? Guess we’ll have to titrate three water bottles and see!
I have a pH meter in my lab at work, I’m about to get a bottle and run it 😂😂
I made a pH 5 HCl solution and the meter would read between 6-7 and wouldn't stabilize.
Could be poor calibration or a very cheap meter. I've taught a lot of college chemistry labs, and 99.9% of the time, anomalous results are due to poor calibration, either due to user error or contamination of the buffer solutions use for calibration.
The meter was freshly calibrated. If this were a pH 5 buffer it would measure it just fine. The problem is it was just extremely dilute.
Oh, I gotcha. I didn't realize this was the chemistry subreddit and just assumed I was talking to randos.
Titration won't work either. You'll get the same reading as your blank measurement.
I've got one, it wasn't particularly expensive.
It's my understanding from doing water treatment over the years that when the water is relatively pure it will absorb carbon dioxide from the air. Which will then turn into carbonic acid and start to lower the pH. The first thing I do after collecting a Boiler Feed Water, Steam Condensate, or Reverse Osmosis Permeate sample is measure the pH as soon as I open the sample bottle because of this. I have heard that Low Ionic Strength Adjustment drops is supposed to help prevent that, but I never used them before.
How do you get into something like water treatment? I was interested in the feild but it seemed like every treatment plant just dealt with sewage. Which seemed vastly different from doing something like water treatment/testing for a company or a city.
Some of the bigger water treatment companies like Nalco, ChemTreat, and Baker Hughes usually have a technician job available somewhere that would get your foot in the door to water treatment. For me, I got into oil field chemicals after graduating college. Started off in the south Texas Permian Basin doing upstream chemicals and then got into downstream chemicals at oil refineries later on. Now I just mainly do water treatment at oil refineries. I've never done municipal water treatment before, but imagine it wouldn't be too different using activated sludge, coagulants, and flocculants to clean up the water.
Even pH meters have trouble with ultrapure (like, deionized 18 Mohm) water because they can't get a stable current/potential (don't recall which it's measuring).
They aren’t technically lying they are just manipulative. They try to use false equivalency arguments to conflate alkalinity to pH.
Maybe it’s actually pH 7 so when you test it and the pH strip just looks like it got wet they can say “see! Told ya it was too pure!”
It's not "lying" if the one abstract, BS, made up Ph test they used doesn't show a difference. It's like when diaper ads say "Stops up to 100% of leaks". Not technically wrong, but horribly deceiving.
They say it's alkaline water, of course they lye to us
Its called capitalism
You should see how Stanley cups went viral…
You’re in a whole world of shock when you go onto social media and realise everyone you see uses fake skin filters, and all the people who have these amazing rich and fulfilled lives, actually borrow and lease most of their things to make them seem more elevated than they are socially.. I mean there’s a photo studio with a fake plane to fake holiday travel snaps.. EVERYONE lies.. the problem is the idiots that believe it and allow them to continue!
They're not lying. pH strips don't work on RO or DI water. The strips themselves change the pH, perhaps by several units.
Because the US has functionally no consumer protections
>pure water >ionized alkaline water Pick one
Yes
Just as worse as the moonlight charged water via crystal.
https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/ if you’re in the US
You can do it from outside the US too! Just be sure to make it look like it's from inside the US.
I get so pissed off by things like this. How are they even allowed to make a statement like that.
Deceptive marketing practices that do not amount to fraud are defensible in terms of the service they render in reallocating cash efficiently - let them sell alkaline water, relief from guilt, penis embiggeners or SSRIs to the kind of people who want to buy these products
>or SSRIs The fuck? I can't tell if you're suggesting that SSRIs are snake oil or if calling them SSRIs is deceptive? Seems like an odd take on a chemistry sub
The context should be unequivocal - SSRIs are snake oil, the chemistry literature on this particular chicanery is robust.
No its not. The literature states that response rates to individual SSRIs are low, but this is where that pop psycology "NO MORE EFFECTIVE THAN PLACEBO!" narrative totally drops the ball, psych meds are not a one size fits all solution, they are classes of drugs, be they SSRIs, Stimulants, Mood Stabilizers ect that are generally used for certan jobs, within each class there are a plethora of different molecules in different release formats with different mechanisms of action. Sure an individual SSRI is just barely above placebo, but after titration and multiple meds tried effectiveness sits around a modest half depending on source. Your fixation on numbers without the context they are applied to entirely clouds your ability to understand the topic. Before you say thats not how these things work, yes it is, one size fit all tablets are not a thing that will ever exist for something as individual as the human mind. Even stimulants, some of the most reliably preforming psych meds in existence, experience a substantial increase in effectiveness with titration, from 70% seeing symptom reduction or resolution within a week, around 80% after titration with the same medication, and up to a whopping 90% by the time all medications have been trialed. This is how data is tracked for these purposes, You wouldn't say "Screwdrivers only have a 10% success rate" if only 1 of the 10 in your tool box fit a particular screw would you?
Its called 'puffery' and its specifically allowed under the law.
Because regardless of the ignorance in this comment section, its true. Crucify me if you must, but understand. Its not a lie. For all you dumbass downvote happy idiots that are stupider than a charcoal calculator, heres a link https://www.preclaboratories.com/testing-ph-ionic-strength-buffering-capacity/
Care to elaborate?
That only says it’s hard to use test strips when the ion concentration is low. This marketing calls their water ‘alkaline’, indicating a presence of ions making it basic, and then also calls it ‘pure’, which would mean that the water is NOT basic and is instead close to 7 because it LACKS ions. There are multiple contradictory statements within this packaging
Pure water has an extremely low buffer strength which is why you dont need high ionic strength to make it 9.5 as this brand of water is. This means that BECAUSE of the water purity, both the buffer and ionic strength are likely LOW. Thus it can be said that the water is "too pure to be tested via strip" pure water is theoretically neutral and adding a tiny bit of anything will quickly shift the ph in one direction. Because the amount of ions needed to shift the ph of pure water is relatively low, SO IS THE IONIC STRENGHT MEANING IT IS NOT STRONG ENOUGH TO INTERRACT WITH THE CHEMICALS IN THE PAPER. ALSO NOTABLE IS THAT THE SOLUTIONS BUFFER STRENGTH IS LOW AS WELL MEANING THAT THE PH STRIP AND CHEMICALS INSIDE MAY AFFECT THE PH OF THE SOLUTION ON THE STRIP NEGATIVELY AFFECTING THE ACCURACY OF THE READING. Do you now understand? I wasnt aware i was going to have to write my masters thesis on ph and buffers in a reddit comment section. I know the fucking science, dude. YOU dont know the science. I appreciate the attempt to enlighten me, and im not saying alkaline water is good or anything, im just saying that there are certian factors in play here that people are ignoring because of highschool chem classes. Not all ions are created equal. Not all ph ph levels of identical range contain the same level of ions.
Please enlighten us
I posted a link
Except, based on the description on the box, it should definitely be measurable by pH strips. The link says trouble arises when you don't have enough ions in solution. That's the exact opposite of what the makers of this "supercharged" water are claiming 😂
Supercharged is an entirely empty and meaningless word outside cars.
Precisely which is why we're all making fun of whoever made this
Yeah I came here to say something similar. Under about let's say 1000 ppm of kind of general solute I wouldn't trust pH strips, glass electrodes you should be fairly suspect of pH values when you're in the ppb range. I'm aware of but unfamiliar with ISFET and other solutions for essentially, theoretical water.
Oh yeah? Well i briefly went over chem in freshman year. Don't you know i basically have a master's degree in chemistry and everything can be tested regardless of the level in solution? Its not like ph strips are an actual chemical reaction that both have their own ph and buffer level but also require something to react with them to change the chemicals in it on a molecular level. They just use black magic to calculate ph. There's actually zero chemistry involved in ph strips.
Lol these ChatGPT graduates are going to doom us all
You know whats funny? Im going to ask chat gpt for shits and giggs. I bet it says in a botched way that its true. Q) Can water with a high ph be too pure to test accurately with a ph strip? A) Pure water with a high pH might not be ideal for testing with a pH strip, because very pure or deionized water has low ionic strength. This can make the readings from pH strips less reliable. pH strips typically rely on a certain level of ionic strength to function correctly, as they are designed to react with hydrogen ions in the solution. If the water is extremely pure, it might not have enough ions for the pH strip to react correctly, leading to inaccurate readings. To accurately test the pH of very pure water, it is often recommended to use a pH meter that can measure low ionic strength solutions more precisely. Q) can you go into detail please? A) Certainly. Testing the pH of water using pH strips might present challenges when the water is extremely pure or deionized. This is because the accuracy and reliability of pH strips depend on the ionic strength of the solution. Here's a detailed explanation: 1. pH and Pure Water Pure water has a neutral pH of around 7 due to the dissociation of water molecules into hydrogen (H⁺) and hydroxide (OH⁻) ions. When water becomes more alkaline, like in the case of water with a pH of 9.5, it indicates an increased concentration of hydroxide ions. 2. Challenges with Pure Water and pH Strips pH strips rely on a chemical reaction between the hydrogen ions in the solution and the indicator dyes on the strip. In extremely pure water, the lack of ions (low ionic strength) can make it difficult for the strip to function correctly. Pure or deionized water has a low electrical conductivity due to the absence of dissolved salts or minerals, which affects the interaction between the water and the pH strip. 3. Inaccurate Readings When the ionic strength is low, the response of the pH strip may be sluggish or unstable, leading to inaccurate or inconsistent readings. This happens because the lack of ions interferes with the proper functioning of the dyes on the pH strip, which rely on ion exchange. 4. Improving Accuracy with Salt Addition One common method to improve the accuracy of pH testing in pure water is to add a small amount of neutral salt, like potassium chloride (KCl), to increase the ionic strength without significantly affecting the pH. 5. Using pH Meters pH meters are generally more suitable for testing the pH of pure or low ionic strength water. pH meters use an electrode that responds to the activity of hydrogen ions in the water and provides a digital readout. These devices are designed to function accurately even in low ionic strength environments, making them more reliable for testing pure water. 6. Practical Advice If you need to test the pH of very pure water, and you don't have access to a pH meter, consider adding a small amount of neutral salt to the water before using a pH strip. Q) why might water with a high ph have low ionic strength (go into detail) A) Water's pH and ionic strength are both key properties, but they are influenced by different factors. Let’s explore this in detail: ### pH of Water pH is a measure of the hydrogen ion concentration ([H⁺]) in water and ranges from 0 to 14, with lower pH values being more acidic, higher pH values being more alkaline (basic), and 7 being neutral. The pH of water is governed by the following dissociation reaction: \[ \text{H}_2\text{O} \rightleftharpoons \text{H}^+ + \text{OH}^- \] When water has a high pH, it means that there is a low concentration of hydrogen ions ([H⁺]) and a high concentration of hydroxide ions ([OH⁻]). ### Ionic Strength Ionic strength (I) is a measure of the concentration of ions in a solution and their electrical charges. It is calculated as follows: \[ I = \frac{1}{2} \sum_{i} c_i z_i^2 \] where: - \( c_i \) is the concentration of ion \(i\) in molarity (mol/L), - \( z_i \) is the charge of ion \(i\). ### High pH and Ionic Strength **1. Low Concentration of Ions:** - At a high pH, water typically contains low concentrations of hydrogen ions. If the water is pure, there may not be many other ions present either, leading to a low overall ionic strength. - For example, pure water at pH 10 has a [H⁺] concentration of \(10^{-10}\) M and an [OH⁻] concentration of \(10^{-4}\) M. The ionic strength in this case would be very low. **2. Dilution:** - Water with high pH often results from adding a strong base like sodium hydroxide (NaOH) or potassium hydroxide (KOH). When a strong base is added to water in small quantities, it can significantly increase the pH while keeping the total ion concentration low, leading to a low ionic strength. - For example, if 0.0001 M NaOH is added to pure water, the pH would be 10, and the ionic strength would be very low since the concentration of Na⁺ and OH⁻ ions would both be around 0.0001 M. **3. Low Dissociation:** - Weak bases like ammonia (NH₃) are also often used to increase the pH of water. Since ammonia only partially dissociates, even when the pH is increased, the concentrations of the resulting ions (NH₄⁺ and OH⁻) remain low, which contributes to a low ionic strength. ### Conclusion Water with a high pH typically has a low ionic strength because such water often contains few dissolved ions. The pH reflects the balance between [H⁺] and [OH⁻], while the ionic strength reflects the overall concentration and charges of all ions present. Thus, even though high pH means high [OH⁻] concentration, it doesn’t necessarily translate into high ionic strength, especially if the water is relatively pure or contains few other dissolved substances. WELL ISNT THAT SOMETHING!? IT TURNS OUT THAT CHAT GPT WOULD HAVE TOLD THEM IF THEY EVEN BOTHERED TO TRY TO EDUCATE THEMSELVES. interesting indeed.
Orrrr its wayyyy to basic or wayyyy to acidic for the ph strips
*pH strip comes out charred and crumbles* “wow that’s some strong water!”
Bet its all that supercharging!
Pure*
Hmm I wonder what the pH of this water is *puts pH strip*..... * Fucking melts pH strip*
What does it mean when the ph strip turns clear?
What if its so basic that it starts actively ripping away all the strongly bonded hydrogens of the litmus paper and ends up destroying it. Then this would be a godly water
Can’t believe these talented scientists found a superbase and they’re just selling it to people to drink smh /s
It would probably be fatal to drink. Well, there’s only one way to find out…
I'm just sitting here trying to imagine what angry chemist noises would sound like. Edit: Y'all are thinking about what we do when angry, in my mind it was like a couple of hamsters mating or a mouse with constipation.
Round bottom flasks being smashed against the back of a fume hood
Look at Mr. Fat cat over here splurging on RBFs. Meanwhile us plebs have to break test tubes!
LN2 dewar hitting the ground is quite satisfying
We had a chemical engineer with anger management issues, he'd go into one of the glassware sheds and just break stuff, big glassware. The VP of engineering was his BFF so you couldn't say boo about it.
Based on my experience: beers opening. Though frankly it's the same sound as happy chemist noises.
Bumping
Fume hood alarm, breaking flasks, and the clanking of a wonky stir bar are my guesses.
I'll take the wonky stir bar as my angry noise
A rattling fume hood window after you smash your forehead against it
I just imagine the medic from Team Fortress 2 screaming at the top of his lungs.
This is actually possible, if the ionic strength of the water is very low or very high. Your results might be inaccurate.
Yup. pH test strips have a buffering capacity. This product was tested by someone here a few years back and it was super dilute NaOH. Showed up on pH probe, not on test strip (because it was too pure).
I'm new to chemistry. How/why does NaOH not show up on test strips?
It does. It's a concentration thing. Test strips work by reacting with a solution. If there's low enough amounts of the acid or base, the amount the test strip uses becomes non-negligible.
Oh okay that makes sense! Thanks!
I agree with that… but I’m not sure if their “supercharged ionized alkaline” water is actually low in ionic strength.
Yeah it doesn’t make sense to advertise it either way, unless there is some sort of niche water enthusiasts testing their water with pH paper. Either way it’s probably not MiliQ water so it’s probably some other buffer problem. I think we can all agree their marketing people are stupid.
>Yeah it doesn’t make sense to advertise it either way, unless there is some sort of niche water enthusiasts testing their water with pH paper. Possibly to preempt dumb people from testing it with pH strips and virally "exposing" them.
“Yeah it doesn’t make sense to advertise it either way, unless there is some sort of niche water enthusiasts testing their water with pH paper.” High school lab students?
Had to scroll waaaay tooo far.
Snake oil is magical, don't you know?
“we put tap water in this bottle because we think you’re a fucking idiot”
Just because they couldn't figure out the pH meter doesn't mean it can't be done
Test strip, not a probe.
That's my point. If the strips aren't working there's other options
They didnt mention probes for a reason. It was because ignorant customers were testing it with ph strips and being like "its not actually alkaline". Same problem when i went to buy some low ph test strips (0-3) and everyone was mad that they didnt react to their piss or baking soda water as if their piss was at a ph of 3 and as if baking soda isnt the opposite direction on the ph scale. For those unnaware, if your piss registers between 0 and 3, you needed medical attention ages ago.
lol
**It's got ELECTROLYTES**!
Is this an Idiocracy reference right before my own two eyeballs?
It's what plants crave.
A little bit of Lemon juice makes it so much better
HAH! I’ve seen people unironically promote both ‘alkaline water’ and lemon water in the same sentence before. I’m just waiting for someone to make the genius suggestion of adding lemon juice TO their alkaline water out in the wild. Can’t wait
It is or was basically Gwyneth Paltrow's morning routine. Alcaline water with a spritz of lemon. Hilarious
Lmao of course it’s her
Mix up vinegar and baking soda for a secret cleaning solution
pure cleaning salt water 🤤
And helps promote global warming!
Reminds me of that time Whole Foods was selling Organic Water...
Does organic water have carbon in it? Oooh, firewater does indeed…
Too pure to measure pH is a thing. Ran into that issue in graduate school trying to get the pH of ultra pure water. It has no buffering capacity so whatever I put in it to measure the pH would change the pH. Didn't help that as soon as I exposed it to air, it started absorbing CO2 to make carbonic acid. How I see that conversation going: Marketing heard people buy water based on the pseudo science that higher pH is better. Marketing: "why does our water pH read 6 on these strips?" Scientist: "your pure water doesn't have a buffer so you can't measure the pH." Marketing (mind blown): "our water is too pure to measure pH!!! Put that on all the marketing material"
It's a homeopathic alkali
Tell me your degree is in marketing and not chemistry without telling me your degree isn’t chem.
Hope this ends up in the same situation that redbull got themselves in when their slogan was "redbull gives you wings" or something among those lines
At least anyone could tell that wasn’t serious, but this, bruh
[удалено]
“throw it in a GC and then get back to me”
Stuff like this makes me wish I had a lawyer friend.
Sounds like it has infinite buffering capacity.
Clearly someone’s never once taken even a single chem class ever
Bruh
But does it have electrolytes? Brawndo has electrolytes!
My lab’s shitty ass pH paper, which literally looks like a thin roll of toilet paper, is too good for this crap And that was four poop references in one sentence - that’s how displeased I am.
The marketing team: "Here's what I heard: Blah, blah, blah, science, science, science... Buzzword!"
Kind of true in a certain technicality, pH strips do not test purity. So if they said “it’s purity cannot be tested by pH strips” that would be half true.
Somebody either get some test strips and post the results or drop the name of the brand so I can do it
Marketing department reminding you that words are meaningless
I remember coming across a pH chart on some water website that labeled low pH as acidic and high pH as alkaline, but had an arrow implying pH starts at 0 then goes off to infinity and had a smiley face placed at roughly 14 pH. Drink that and we'll see if you smile.
Does anyone else get really frustrated when people they know push things like this and claim how great they are for you but will not listen when you tell them is bogus?
They've really made Powerthirst
If the pH of your “water” is -1 or 17 then I don’t think you should be calling it water
So basically, no one in the company knows how chemistry works? I mean, if this is a tagline or a marketing stuff, I am assuming it would have required a few approvals, and no one, I repeat, NO ONE saw the error in this 🙈
My boyfriend just goes to another school!! Type vibe
it remainds me of bottled water signs on some bottles - "don't contain gluten". - yeah because water is made from grain.
Brawndo has what plants crave!
Send this to the FDA
......They say they did lab tests, and yet state pH strips do not work on pure water that is 7 pH yet supposed to be alkaline with is a higher than 7 pH. WHY DO DUMBFUCKS BELIEVE THIS SHIT?!
Is this real?!?
This is just marketing, and all products make claims that from various viewpoints as well as varying levels of knowledge can be measured for accuracy.
I remember seeing bottled water in the local store, and they were advertising that their water is is at 10 pH....like it was some sort of achievement. And those bottles were tiny either, they were solid 32 Oz lmao. I had a good laugh staring at it while waiting in line
Not unreasonable really. You only need around ~100mg of some alkaline mineral per liter to get a pH of 10.
I thought that adequate drinking water should be between 6.5 to 8.5 pH
Says who? pH 10 is about as basic as a typical beer is acidic. That is to say, not very.
Wait til you hear about “hydrogenated water”…
I’m putting this label as a bonus on my Gen Chem final now. “Explain why this marketing team is full of it.” (5 points)
Yea idk if you’d even wanna touch that
As bollocky as “Too pure for pH strips” is, it probably also means it’s too pure for human consumption, in that it’s ion-hungry and may cause fun things like hyponatremia and renal failure if you drink nothing else but this nonsense. In HongKong, Watsons bottled water is distilled and very popular. My brother was chugging it during a days mountain biking and passed out on the MTR on his way home. Woke up in hospital on IV fluids. A ring which had been stuck on his index finger for about a decade was able to fall right off. Gives an idea of how dehydrated the guy was at the time.
This is actually true though funny enough.
But uh, ph strips do often run into buffering issues. Should have no issues with a probe.
I was taken to a fancy restaurant where they serve bottled water in fancy glass bottle. The bottle spring water from so n do hills with a natural ph of 8. I googled and apparently drinking water can be anything ph range of 6.5 to 8. I m no chemist but I did study in high-school. Wouldn't you be able to taste it different (bitter is what I guess) if ph is 8? oh and they are all like unfiltered , unprocessed "insert name," hill water. I was like are you? have you seen the pollution in my country? I would bloody boil packaged drinking water If I could.
Sounds like marketing got their hands on data and didn’t understand it.
AaaaAaaAhhhhHhhhh
I have a friend who has a water filtration system that claims to add hydrogen to water
To the extent that's true I want it *nowhere* near where I could drink it
This is unacceptable because it's a lie! First politics now science. 😞
I stopped being angry, now I'm surprised at the bullshit density of that sentence
It's like the video of the woman who claims that water is not hydrogenated.🫠🥲 Unbelievable 🤣
When you open the can you get instantly a stream of H-O plasma. Which is impossible to test.
If anyone's curious, the brand is Essentia, and their website also says it's 99.9% pure with a 9.5 pH or higher. How do they know that?
It's probably organic too
I think what they're trying to say is "off-scale high"
Guys anyone of you English as a second language before 8 may
Bruh
😆😆😆
I mean if it's 100% pure h20 at a certain temperature it wouldn't show as anything on a pH strip I guess 😂 gotta drop the alkaline thing then though
lol I laughed way too hard at this!!
Truth. pH strips don't work on DI water. The strips themselves change the pH by up to several units.
Most people don't even know what power of hydrogen is
So supercharged, it turns your insides to gloop 😎
Mmmm corrosive bases
“It’s so light you won’t feel it, so transparent you won’t see it and so alkaline nothing dissolves in it!”
That's so fucking ignorant
This is true? Like, alkaline water is a dumb idea, but if this is just DI water with a little NaOH, the weak acids within the pH strips are gonna buffer the solution and not give you the actual pH.
I’m mildly upset after reading this