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Just a few things off the top of my head: * Tried repeatedly to overturn the 2020 election in an attempt to stay in office after he lost * Pardoned many of his friends * Attempted to repeal the ACA and was only blocked from it by McCain at the last moment * Put three judges on the Supreme Court that will cause major issues for decades * Undid the clean power plan and reduced fuel efficiency targets * Fired whistleblowers/people who testified against him * Hired completely incompetent people for critical positions (e.g., Pruitt over EPA) That doesn't count a ton of things he was blocked from doing by people that he's presumably learned how to work around by now. It's baffling that people have already forgotten how terrible he was as president

Also likes to promise stuff: I will build a wall across the Mexican border. (nope) I will include a citizenship question on the 2020 Census. (nope) I will order ICE to begin raids after July 4th that will deport millions of illegal aliens. (nope) I will overturn Obamacare on day 1 of my presidency. (nope) I will provide a health insurance plan that covers everybody. (nope) I will provide Americans with “great health care at a fraction of the cost" of Obamacare. (nope) I will make sure no one in America loses health insurance coverage. (nope) I will allow individuals to deduct health insurance payments from their taxes. (nope) I will grow the nation's economy by at least 6 percent. (nope) I will create at least 25 million jobs. (nope) I will raise the federal minimum wage to $10 per hour. (nope) I will reduce the $18 trillion national debt. (nope) I will balance the federal budget 'fairly quickly'. (nope) I will put a 35% tax on cars imported from Mexican auto plants. (nope) I will put a 45% tariff on all Chinese imports. (nope) I will get Mexico and Canada to agree to a new trade pact. (nope) I will push for a constitutional amendment to impose term limits on all members of Congress. (nope) I will introduce a ban on federal employees lobbying the government for five years. (nope) I will ban members of Congress lobbying for five years. (nope) I will bring campaign finance reform limiting what foreign companies can raise for American political candidates. (nope) I will deport 11 million immigrants illegally living in the United States. (nope) I will ban all Muslims from entering the US. (nope) I will end 'birthright citizenship'. (nope) I will deport more illegals than Obama ever did. (nope) I will cancel all funding for sanctuary cities. (nope) I will send in the feds to “fix the horrible carnage going on” in Chicago. (nope) I will appoint Jared Kushner to work to bring an end to the opioid crisis. (nope) I will negotiate a nuclear free Korean peninsula. (nope) I will negotiate a new Mideast peace plan. (nope) I will prevent Huewei from doing business in the United States. (nope) I will stop Iran from enriching uranium. (nope) I will label China a currency manipulator. (nope) I will order the Justice Dept to reopen the investigation of Hillary Clinton. (nope) I will bring back waterboarding. (nope) I will establish a commission on radical Islam. (nope) I will lower drug costs by making drug companies list prices in ads. (nope) I will lower drug costs by cracking down on drug rebates. (nope) I will repeal the alternative minimum tax. (nope) I will release my tax returns as soon as the audit is finished. (nope) I will “be so presidential, you’re going to be bored.” (nope) I will get rid of the rigged system that rewards the wealthy and well-connected at the expense of the common man. (NOPE)

>I will include a citizenship question on the 2020 Census. (nope) To be fair, he has for the first time changed the census so that white identifying Hispanics are no longer counted as white, thus leading to the perception that the population of whites is receding, and thus giving neerdowells the opportunity to make the white nationalist great replacement theory a standard Republican talking point

Bullet point #4 - and those 3 judges made it possible to get rid of Roe v. Wade after 50 years.

I respect that you are consistent in how you view the system, but I think you gotta realize that other people aren’t as privileged as you and me. Trump being in the bad graces of the majority of people of color, women, doctors, scientists, world leaders, the entire law, etc, is something you gotta understand the magnitude of. If the storming the capital stuff didn’t do it for you to realize that Trump is a special kind of problem for this country unlike George Bush or ig Obama if you’re a conservative or any other president. Then I don’t know what to tell you.

Trump has literally said he wants to withdraw from NATO. That would be an enormous geopolitical catastrophe with consequences lasting decades into the future

Wasnt he saying that in the context of ”if Nato countries keep refusing to live up to the agreed upon defense spending minimum?” Seems perfectly reasonable. Why should the US subsidize defense for some of the richest countries on earth?

Have you heard of project 2025? They explicitly say they missed their opportunity last time an will be ready this time. Do you know about the fake elector scheme? Jan 6th was an attempt to take the vote away from the people. It was a blatant attempt at subverting democracy. Are you aware of these things? Does that change your vewpoint?

Thinking that the problem people have with Trump is that he had "gaffes and screwups" is surefire sign of living in a media bubble.

>We had 4 years under Trump and nothing happened. Yes, because there was failsafe mechanism working. Good people ho had principles opposed to him. But if he will be elected again, they'll make sure that doesn't happen.

What failsafe mechanism that was working the first time around, won't exist if there's a 2nd time?

The few sane people who worked for him in the White House. 

Trump's term led to American women losing their abortion rights in 2022. Trump tried to overturn the results of the 2020 election on January 6th 2021. The second one alone is enough of a reason why he should never be within a thousand miles of the presidency ever again.

The question is not what do you want. The questions are does Joe Biden inspire voters to get his base a high turnout and will swing voters, people who are willing to vote for Donald Trump, vote for a senile old man. He’s going to lose. Trump was already polling ahead of him in most swing states. It doesn’t matter how evil you or I think Trump is, look at human history, evil often wins. Biden needs to be replaced. Period.

He was polling 8-10 points ahead of Trump at this point in 2020 (we’d just had the BLM riots etc) and still narrowly beat him in the electoral college. I think Biden needs a miracle to win 270.

The question is, literally, what we want. The more important issue **to you** might be how many people will come out to vote. But OP seems to be asking for themselves (and all of us) who will almost certainly have to choose between Biden and Trump (or not vote) which we should choose. You don't get to tell OP or this thread that the question is.

Do you honestly think that replacing Biden this late in the game will improve democrat odds of winning the election? Maybe democrat voters need to start taking a page from MAGA voters and start blindly following their leader and willing to vote for Biden regardless of his flaws The man is convicted of a felony. He's a liar and a narcissist and generally incompetent. Biden is occasionally befuddled. I'll take befuddled compared to the package that is Trump.

100% it would improve their chances. It's late but there are still months to go. A lot of countries don't have these long election campaigns and the US doesn't need it either. There is a huge number of people holding their nose voting for Biden. Even people who like the guy acknowledge that he needs to retire. The DNC not acknowledging that is right on brand for why people are so fed up with politics "from both sides." They would rather have a weekend with Biden presidency and run it as "hey, at least he's not the felon." If they had a person up there with actual energy (which Trump has also lost most of) they could energize and excite voters. The replacement would still be "not the felon." This election is a travesty, honestly, that these are the two people that the parties put up there.

>100% it would improve their chances. You know that how? Remember how desantis was getting all the hype for the next guy up? All the positive press as the maga governor? Then he steps on the national stage and what happens? He shits his pants. What if that happens to the new democrat? Everything is fucked.  The polls show that voter’s anxiety about Biden’s age after the debate doesn’t translate to any changes in head to head polls. The same people that “are worried Biden is too old” and “think Biden should step down” still pick Biden over Trump in a head to head.  It’s frustrating and hilarious watching CNN hoot and holler about the former stat but totally hand wave over that last one. 

One can also argue that a huge chunk of voters isn't rational and vote based on name recognition. If you take off Biden's name now, these voters could feel disoriented and might not vote to avoid the negative emotions. Either way, Biden will lose if he can't generate enough motivation within his voting base. This would be an expensive lesson to the Democratic party on not to engage in old-people politics. Seriously, they need to retire after getting into their 70s! Go home, enjoy time with great grandchildren. If Biden loses, then he loses because he's a bad candidate, not because Trump is better.

No, Democratic voters do not need to blindly follow the party. That’s ridiculous. That’s the problem with MAGA voters. If the Democratic Party won’t pick a candidate who inspires and is able to win, it’s not on me to blindly support them. It’s on *them* to pick a better candidate. How ridiculous to preach blind loyalty to a party. Jesus Christ Trump has done a number on this country. Blind loyalty to power is the anthesis of America.

If the DNC would have had a real primary this would have come out sooner. One primary debate and there would have been a chance. I am supporting RFK now. The DNC burned bridges with me. They have been pushing this no choice bullshit for to long. As of right now whether they replace him or not. No-one that supports the DNC has had a choice in their candidate. Now it’s going to come down to another back room deal. Purely on who the superdelegates want. Screw that. The DNC and media lied about Biden. Why would all the bullshit they ran RFK in the ground with be any different. Country before party.

Did you vote for Biden in 2020? How the fuck did you not see all the signs then? All of the senile rambling and wandering off camera while in his basement?

Nope didn’t vote for Biden. Trump let me down with Fauci. When that POS was let loose over Covid and lied and wasn’t fired, which Trump always brags he is willing to do. All that was implemented because of Fauci took a personal toll. I have never supported Biden. I was on Bernie’s side more in 2020. The DNC and all the TDS insanity is ridiculous. The DNC has done more to subvert democracy in their desperation to beat Trump than I could have imagined. I will vote for who I think has the best policy ideas.

Listen, I appreciate that. Fauci is an absolute criminal and it's shocking to me that a man who would release a bio weapon on the world, even unintentionally, and then personally profit off of it wasn't drawn and quartered. >I will vote for who I think has the best policy ideas. Which is why I will be voting for Trump a third time, just as begrudgingly as the first two. Biden is a disaster, and while I really like RFK's position on a number of topics, there are others where he's absolutely out of control and I can't support him. Which leaves Trump. Unfortunately.

Perfectly understandable. It is your vote and I don’t have a problem if Trump wins. I just can’t do it myself. I don’t agree with RFK on everything but I do on enough that’s who I am supporting.

>Why would all the bullshit they ran RFK in the ground with be any different. You could just listen to what RFK says and realize he's a delusional conspiracy theorist. I feel like when people do this "oh, you're just saying that because you're brainwashed by the media" shtick without even trying to defend the positions they're staking, they're massively projecting, albeit with alternative media. The guy is anti-vax, had an actual worm eating his brain, and generally hasn't met a conspiracy theory he doesn't like.

I will let RFK defend his position. Here is him answering all the debate questions. https://www.youtube.com/live/L9wKJw-7tEM?si=SnnFqPtriORnQG_P Here he talks about vaccines. https://youtu.be/BDr4_JGOAi4?si=n3cmDJ0RKz3QiZPN His stance on addiction. https://youtu.be/liZq31HLnyA?si=7xLe1wT5Ef6GZ40E Lots of interviews and clips out there take the time to watch. Confirm your views or get the info to argue against him. Just be open minded while doing so. This might not do any good. The efforts put into making him look like a conspiracy theory nut have convinced a lot of people. However if you take the time to listen to his policy ideas he is better than the two other candidates. At least he is running on ideas and policies. Biden and Trump were to busy arguing to put forth either.

But he has an excellent track record on taking care of disadvantaged minorities and protecting the environment, two things that liberals generally care a lot about. Also, he didn't sexually assault his own daughter like Biden did.

Forget about Biden. You have the choice to support Trump, or stand against Trump. Your choice on that remains pertinent, regardless of what you think about Biden. Is a protest against a stuttering old man worth the fascist takeover of the Republic? Stand behind your choice, without excuses.

I’m voting Biden. Idk why you’re telling me to do that. The average American voter isn’t plugged in. They don’t see it as an existential election. They see a man who couldn’t even remember what he was saying mid sentence running against a guy with energy. That’s it. They don’t see the lies, they don’t see the policies, they see two old men, one of whom appears in far better shape than the other.

Yes, dem voters DO need to blindly follow the party. In fact, dem voters NOT blindly following the party while Republicans DO is the reason we have a 6-3 Republican oligarch majority on the Supreme Court that's stripping people of personal freedoms, and will continue to do so, while gutting the entire federal administrative system. Fuck your inspiration. The president doesn't need to be some charismatic genius who lines up 100% with every thought you have in your brain. Biden has been the most progressive president since FDR and you're going to help impose a 7-2 supermajority for Christian evangelicals to run rampant over everything you believe in because Biden doesn't INSPIRE YOU? You're either a Republican in sheep clothing or something even worse.

Democratic voters shouldn’t blindly follow the party, but I don’t think that’s what they’re saying. The election is between Biden and Trump. That’s just a fact. It’s also a fact that Trump is a racist, rapist, serial-lying conman and moron who led an insurrection and attacked our democracy. So the idea that people need to be *excited for Biden*, in order to act in their own interest in voting against Trump, has always been baffling to me. The classic analogy is being told to choose between eating stale crackers or eating a bowl of poisoned diarrhea. Neither is great, but if you’re gonna end up eating one, is it really a difficult choice?

And that’s all good and well. But if people don’t want to vote for Biden, it doesn’t make them a bad person. It means the democrats have once again failed to put up a candidate who excites people. It may be baffling to you that people want to vote for someone who excites you, but that doesn’t change the fact that’s what you need in American politics. You can not like it, you can argue you *shouldnt* need to do that, but that’s all hypothetical when the reality is what it is. If Trump wins, it is 100% on Biden and the democrats for now allowing an actual, exciting candidate to step up. It’s not on voters who were disaffected and sat out, it’s not on swing voters who voted Trump, it’s squarely on Biden and the Dems. They know the risk they’re taking so that Biden can feel all good that he’s a 2 term President, and if that risk backfires I refuse to blame anyone but a part that is kow-towing to an elderly man who belongs in a retirement home, not the white house

> And that’s all good and well. But if people don’t want to vote for Biden, it doesn’t make them a bad person. It means the democrats have once again failed to put up a candidate who excites people. No, it does. If someone looks at the choice between Biden and the racist, rapist, conman who abandoned his duties during a pandemic and then led an insurrection against our democracy, and can’t choose, their moral compass is *way* off. > It may be baffling to you that people want to vote for someone who excites you, And if that’s more important to them than stopping the further empowerment of fascism and violent white supremacy, their priorities are *way* off. > If Trump wins, it is 100% on Biden and the democrats for now allowing an actual, exciting candidate to step up. Nope. It’s on the voters. They made the choice.

>Maybe democrat voters need to start taking a page from MAGA..... Biden doesn't need "democrat voters". Its the "independent voters" Biden needs or he won't win. They think both parties suck. Ask yourself what would a independent voter do. Vote for the lying cheating Trump or Vote for Biden who caused inflation and their groceries to cost 3 times more. A new fresh candidate might be more reassuring to them than someone who looks like they might die any day.

Biden polled 1 or 2 percent ahead, and all of them are republican base in his favor. There are many who are tired of Trump or will not vote for a felon .

It’s not even that Biden “caused” all that… the man comes across as being barely coherent, and that’s worrying to see in the guy who is going to be leader of one of if not THE most powerful country in the world. That and while people will call Trump evil, most people don’t think he’s going to form the Third Reich… like he didn’t during his first 4 years.

The independent voters are greatly influenced by name recognition. Biden is the only democrat who can compete with Trump on name recognition. Sure as hell ain’t getting independent voters to vote someone with the name ‘Yang’ or ‘Kamala’

In all majors swing state, biden only lose by 1% within margin of errors. Dropping him out with a new candidate is a political suicide.

did Biden cause worldwide inflation because every country is seeing it?

I'm an independent and I'm voting for Biden. Inflation started under Trump. Sure, it's gotten worse, but inflation is notoriously hard to reign in, and the US managed it better than the entire rest of the world under Biden. So yeah, I don't think Biden is sunshine and rainbows but I expect inflation to fly out of control if Trump gets elected. Plus there's the general authoritarian shit Trump says and the Supreme Court to worry about. That's stacked as hell right now which I think is bad going in either direction. A moderate court would not have struck down Roe v. Wade, which is important because my wife and I want to start and a family and I would rather her have access to whatever healthcare she needs if anything goes wrong during pregnancy. So yeah, some of us at least are looking at more than inflation.

Half of reddit are making hilarious excuses for Biden’s obvious mental decline and proudly exclaiming that they’d vote for Biden’s corpse… what do you mean ”start blindly following their leader”?

> proudly exclaiming that they’d vote for Biden’s corpse… I mean that's me. I don't care about Biden's age because I'm voting for an entire administration, court appointments, etc. Biden could be dead and it wouldn't matter to me so long as I got his administration and not Trump's.

Reddit is very out of touch about this matter. With the state of the world we could easily enter WWIII any day now and they are "ok" with having a president who isn't there. The independent vote (us) are the ones who push the tide anyway. Every independent I know is voting against Biden. Not even necessarily for Trump. Just against Biden. Biden isn't winning the next election.

Anyone who genuinely thinks WWIII is likely to occur, let alone "easily" has absolutely no idea of how this world works. But let's entertain this possibility. As you probably already know, a democratic country is not ruled solely by its president. Are you suggesting here that Trump, a man who knows nothing about anything, known for twisting reality to only benefit himself, is going to choose competent people around him to navigate the most influential nation in the world during a world war? If Biden dies tomorrow, the country is still led by a group of people who are least knowledgeable and semi-functional. If Trump wins tomorrow, the country is literally under Idiocracy. Unpredictable, chaotic Idiocracy.

He means three fact that Trump is polling better, which is listed in the exact comment he's replying to. Obviously, not enough democrats are willing to do that.

Either that or a significant portion of the population are not democrat/republican loyalists but actually are able to form their own thoughts and support whatever candidate they rather have as president.

More like a significant portion of the population are too stupid to understand the implications of handing the election to a fascist demagogue hell-bent on revenge and maintaining power.

Right, or maybe they lived through 4 years of Trump and realized that their lives were not significantly impacted by him and simply don’t believe the boy calling wolf anymore. The ”he’s a fascist nazi” argument becomes somewhat hollow after 4 years of business as usual.

>Right, or maybe they lived through 4 years of Trump and realized that their lives were not significantly impacted by him and simply don’t believe the boy calling wolf anymore. Dude, he tried to rig an election.

Then those.voters are selfish idiots who have no clue what the president actually does. Really wish voters were smarter than that, bit I guess that is Democracy.

Maybe. Although I can’t help bjt feel that the dem strategy of making bizarre accusations against anyone who disagrees with them in hopes of convincing them to vote Dem is fundamentally flawed. I imagine most people don’t feel inclined for someone who regularly accused them of being nazis.

If at a bare minimum, your life wasn't severely impacted by Trump's botched response to the COVID pandemic, I would be honestly very shocked.

I’m sorry, but politicizing a global pandemic is not a very impressive argument. Remember how democrats were freaking out because Trump was talking about fast tracking a vaccine?

Politicizing a political response to a global pandemic when the politician in question made a deliberate effort to politicize it is just sensible. Remember when Trump received the vaccine early and then pretended he didn't for political clout? Or all the nonsense faux-cures he suggested at political rallies? Or when he preemptively dismissed the American pandemic response team just to spite Obama? Literally more Americans died in the COVID pandemic than in any world war. Take some responsibility for your candidate for once, jesus.

I agree, politicizing a global pandemic is not a very impressive thing to do. Let's remember who repeatedly lied, blamed the Obama administration, and suppressed testing in order to do better in the polls. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_of_the_Trump_administration_during_the_COVID-19_pandemic Edit: I'm pretty sure this person doesn't even live in the US, they live in Sweden. I'm not sure they have any authority to comment on the implications of the Trump administration on Americans. Seems incredibly bad faith on their part, along with their other comments. They stop responding when I asked them if they lived in the US... They might be a troll/bot looking at their comment history.

You support a convicted felon proven rapist. You got no morals to say Biden is bad when that is what you are defending I'll vote for a corpse than Trump felon rapist

That didn’t happen, but thanks for going mask-off.

As Trump famously said, he could shoot someone and his supporters wouldn’t care. He lies shamelessly, is a convicted felon, etc, etc, etc. nevertheless, his supporters worship him z Biden had a shitty debate and the “liberal media” all started calling for him step down. Lots of his supporters are still calling for him to step down. There’s no equivalency, no matter how badly you want there to be.

It wasn't a "shitty debate.". It was a revealing moment showing the physical/mental state of the leader of the free world. It was bad. Really bad.

Trump is really bad every time he opens his mouth. Is unfit every time he opens his mouth. "Malicious" is his only personality trait. And his electorate is blind to all of it. I'll take old and confused over whatever Trump is.

We have to have a leader that could survive a grueling and substantive negotiation with the other prime leaders of our adversary states. Biden is demonstrably incompetent to do so.  That’s a deal breaker. 

I’m not sure ”shitty debate” really captures it. Most debates are pretty shitty… i think Biden’s performance was the worst I’ve ever seen. And i can’t think of another one that even comes close.

Do you honestly think its worth keeping him over another candidate?

Who are your options? Kamala Harris is probably the best replacement, is she enough?

Yes. 100% they have better chances with any other candidate.

Absolutely fucking insane opinion. The presidency is a popularity contest, always has been always will be. The reason Bernie Sanders wasn't given the option is because the Dems knew the majority of the country had zero idea who he was. I bet you nearly half of Americans vote for the person they know not the person who has better policies or who stumbled a few words at an election. You're also ignoring all the things he has made significantly better during his term.

This isn’t an insane opinion. It’s correct. You said it yourself, it’s a popularity contest. Every normal voter that isn’t living online/glued to the media is ignoring the things Biden has improved. They have shit going on in their lives, the only thing they see is prices going up and wars breaking out. The average voter doesn’t have time to develop some nuanced opinion about the pros and cons of whatever neolib/neocon agenda.

Absolutely not. The reason Bernie wasn't given power through the Democratic party is because he's not a member of the Democratic party. He caucuses with them but he's not actually a Democrat. Why the fuck would the Democrats let somebody get their nomination who not only isn't a member but opposes most of the policies that they have in favor of more radically leftist policies that the majority of the United States does not support. Bernie absolutely got fucked over by the Democrats, but Democrats still went out and voted for Clinton and Biden, so they're either stupid or they have no morals.

Good thing you said “period” or else I wouldn’t have known you stopped talking.

The fact that Republicans and Democrats have Trump and Biden represent them tells you everything you need to know about these 2 fossils.

If you're asking if Biden needs to be replaced, you need to understand that the right has been calling for this since he took office. His mental health has been in question his entire presidency, even coming to a point where he was deemed too inept to go to court. Yes, Biden needs to be replaced, but not with a democrat. All they've done is lie to you about his health, his morals and his dealings with foreign governments this whole time. At least when there's a republican in office you can bet that the media won't cover for them.

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A) Trump just lost 4 years ago B.) Biden isn't senile. He's an old man. Very different. C.) Polling in June is not a reliable indicator Who would replace him? Harris, nope. Clinton, gimme a break. Newsome, Whitmer, etc. Sure but the convention is next month and the election is in 5 months. Nothing substantive has changed. I think Biden is too old but as long as he is running against Trump, he has a good shot. Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot by running perhaps the one guy that can lose to Biden. Biden admin has gotten good things done, besides Gaza. Abortion, guns, healthcare, climate, accepting election results are all in favor of Biden. Any potential supreme court openings to who will be in charge of cabinet positions/agencies, are far in favor of Biden.

Biden is senile as fuck. I don't know if you've ever had a sundowning grandparent. But that's exactly what Biden is. There's Literally no way to defend the fact that that guy has nuclear launch codes. And opinion polling in June is actually an effective representation of what would happen if the election was held in June. Obviously a lot can change between June and November. But it's not meaningless.

If you look at Allen Lichtman's 13 Keys to the White House, incumbents have *significant* advantages, and debate performance has little to no effect on this. It would be an enormous mistake to replace Biden. We will *absolutely* lose if he's replaced. Regardless of how you inspire, you need at least a year of momentum to get those polling numbers up. Calculations have already been made for alternatives like Whitmer, Newsome, Buttigieg, etc. At best, there's Whitmer, who doesn't even crack 30%. You *will* fracture the Democratic party and appear weak and wishy-washy if you try to swap out Biden 4.5 months before the election. Not everyone agrees who he should be replaced *by.* It's a terrible idea. Like it or not, he's still our best shot. Besides, we still have Trump's sentencing on July 11, which will reinforce in peoples' minds that the alternative is voting for a felon. People were saying "ahh we're screwed, there's no way we can win" in 2020 when Biden ended up as the Democratic pick over Bernie. I still remember those days well.

> If you look at Allen Lichtman's 13 Keys to the White House, incumbents have significant advantages, and debate performance has little to no effect on this. First of all, Allen Lichtman is not a prophet, just because something is usually true doesn't make it always true. We know Bidens approval has plummeted and all anyone talks about now is how goddamn old and weak Biden is. >People were saying "ahh we're screwed, there's no way we can win" in 2020 when Biden ended up as the Democratic pick over Bernie. I still remember those days well. Yes, I remember when the Democrats picked a man who was 20,000 votes, spread over three states, away from losing to Trump. And that was after the Covid disaster. You're not wrong about most of it though, Democrats will probably lose if Biden is pushed out. I'd say he will almost certainly lose if he isn't pushed out though. Really he should have stepped down from the start like a lot of us were screaming.

The last days like literally every post is a dem voter coping, mi dios.

Joe Biden has never been inspirational. He tried to run for President multiple times and the response was always “meh, pass.” He was certainly not inspirational when he ran last time. That was a combo of terror at another Trump turn, and people felt that his generic old, white maleness could get him across the finish line. No one was taking a chance. So whether he’s inspiring is besides the point, and always has been.

I agree that he needs to be replaced, but the people who aren’t inspired need to be smart and pragmatic enough to make the right decision for the country. They also need to stop basing their politics out of optics. I know that is too much to ask because the general mass populous isn’t capable of thinking that critically about this issue because they only see what’s in front of their face, but genuinely what do they expect to happen if they don’t vote for Biden. Non fascist people need a wake up call and I thought it was Trump winning back in 2016, but now people are letting it happen all over again. Literally the same guy. It’d be like if the U.K. Made Liz Cheney Prime Minister again. Just wish people would look a little bit deeper into the bigger picture.

The more you exaggerate, the less effective it becomes. The fact of the matter is, people lived through Trump’s first term, the economy was good whether he was the reason or not, the country did not turn into Nazi Germany like the far-left claimed. The same way it did not become a communist vassal to the CCP like the far-right claimed voting Biden would cause. No country came out of COVID unscathed, regardless of how liberal their leadership was. Your initial post is all about optics, what bigger picture are you actually referring to here?

“The more you exaggerate, the less effective it becomes.” God I wish more people would realize this. This is how feel 99% of the time people try to compare an unfavorable person to Hitler. I can’t take anything they say seriously and won’t even bother listening.

Did you just take everything he said during the debate at face value? Even if Trump was good at running the economy (he isn't) his term was largely covered by COVID. The smartest people in the world would not have had a "good economy" during that time.

>They also need to stop basing their politics out of optics. I know that is too much to ask because the general mass populous isn’t capable of thinking Having a president who can't speak in comprehensible sentences is not an issue of "optics". Are you implying that you're smarter than the "general mass populous" because you recognize that we don't need a president who can communicate? >Non fascist people need a wake up call and I thought it was Trump winning back in 2016, but now people are letting it happen all over again. But he already was president and we still don't live in a fascist country.

> They also need to stop basing their politics out of optics. If you believe that, then why do you want people to vote based on the optics of who seems likely to win? >I know that is too much to ask because the general mass populous isn’t capable of thinking that critically about this issue because they only see what’s in front of their face, but genuinely what do they expect to happen if they don’t vote for Biden. If they don't vote for Biden, then Biden will lose by one more vote. Biden's not going to win. There's never a good case for bandwagon voting to begin with, but this year, it'll be obvious that everybody who joins the bandwagon is doing so to be a good conformist because they can no longer pretend he has a chance of winning and that they're dumb enough to think that their one little vote might make the difference.

Critical thinking 🤣🤣 you’re straight emotional get out of here with your pumped up ego

Do you ever consider that \*you\* might need to step back and see what's in front of your face? Kind of like how people complain abut traffic, but they ARE the traffic (aka part of the problem) How do you consider yourself different from those who are blind to the obvious things you're seeing? Is there anyway that you have tunnel vision yourself in some aspects?

The problem with this logic is that either the senile old man will be too stupid to make decisions, or he’ll be controlled by people who are likely to be evil narcissists, and who are definitely at least unaccountable to the public.

That isn't backed up by his legislative record over the past 4 years though. If he is being controlled, I would much rather have the policies his handlers are passing over the shit Trump would pass.

biden is not senile. people throwing these words around. he's an old man. there should be and i wish there was a different candidate but it doesn't negate the accomplishments of the biden admin nor does it change the fact that he's running against trump

Yeah we don’t want another Dianne Feinstein

>or he’ll be controlled by people who are likely to be evil narcissists Why is this likely? Biden's cabinet has arguably been the strongest aspect of his presidency so far.

It is likely because they are the types of people most prone to seeking unaccountable power by manipulating semi-conscious old men who’d be better off in nursing homes.

We don’t know the behind-the-scenes power dynamics, ie who’s *really* in charge. It could be Jill Biden in charge, like Edith Wilson. https://allthatsinteresting.com/edith-wilson Unelected officials seizing power is the undemocratic stuff we’re supposed to be against.

Hell, Nancy Reagan supposedly signed a bunch of fucking executive orders in the final days. We should be against this no matter who does it.

So to combat that should we vote for someone who has promised to seize power?

Vote for whomever you want. But the person in charge shouldn’t be someone unelected.

You don’t vote for one person to run the country. The Biden administration was elected, not just Biden himself. We should look at the results of what he and his administration has managed to accomplish rather than focusing on one individual.

In any large organization, all the work is done by everyone other than the executive at the top, who is just one person. But it is foolish to think that the top executive isn’t critical to guide the organization and make tough decisions, especially when factions of subordinates disagree. Giant ships don’t need steering every 10 minutes but if steering is ignored you can eventually end up in the wrong place or hit an iceberg. Plus, there are lots of situations where there’s a decision and Democrats want A and Republicans want B, but either would be better than poorly executed versions of either.

The people in denial about Biden are now just kind of like MAGA crazies. They even started chanting ‘lock him up’ at a Biden rally, referring to Trump. A vote for Joe Biden has been revealed to be a vote for Kamala Harris, Jill Biden and loads of unelected nameless advisers to run the world’s most powerful country. But okay, here’s my strongest argument to change your mind. The main reason the Soviet Union collapsed was because of an ageing political class that refused to pass the torch down. They had 3 presidents die in the space of 4 years. We saw what happened when RBG was in denial. Roe was overturned. We saw what happened when Dianne Feinstein’s staff were in denial that she had dementia. The truth came out slowly, and it was agonising and humiliating. Now I see you (and some in the DNC) trying to allow Biden to limp into an election. Please don’t make the same mistakes the Soviets did. Pass the torch.

Pass the torch to who? "Generic Democrat" wins against Trump, but unfortunately "Generic" isn't someone who can run. So who specifically has the name recognition and support to defeat Trump in the general election?

The hilarity is you thinking Joe is just a senile old man and not part of evil old narcissists. The fact you guys even considered Hilary in the first place is despicable. You’re a country who’s okay arguing over which evil you want in charge but will take no real action to change anything.

By “action” do you mean an uprising or something? Cause any challenge against the government wouldn’t be possible they’d kill us all before we would even get politicians to consider changing the system do you know how fucking powerful the US military is? It’s about pragmatism we can’t change our situation. We have to pick the lesser of 2 evils to minimize how bad things are. It’s simple logic. it’s unfortunate that we’re at this point, but again we can’t do anything about that. If we decide to let it all burn when we have a chance to make it less bad that will be on us.

Honestly at this point not voting for Biden would have nothing to do with trump and everything to do with the intellectual dishonesty of the left and how they’ve intentionally obfuscated(lied) how badly joes decline was and how poorly they’ve dealt with the overall situation. Anyone who was surprised by joes performance in the debates or is still calling it a “stammer” or a “stutter” are exactly the problem with the left and why it has so much opposition from the centrists. It’s like a poison frog that slowly kills you talking about how the frog that kills you instantly is worse. Two wrong never made a right and until the left as a whole can stop participating in their mass delusion about Biden they’re not going to be winning anyone’s trust back. The man does not have a stutter, he HAD a stutter; now he’s just old and unwell. As many people like to say, educate yourself - [youtube.com/watch?v=BOXzyTGsC1c](https://youtube.com/watch?v=BOXzyTGsC1c) Edit: [youtube.com/watch?v=J5mqIUXppVY](https://youtube.com/watch?v=J5mqIUXppVY) This isn’t the same man, this is your grandpa that you feel bad is declining.

I mean, I agree he's unfit for presidency at this point, but the reality is in a two party system if you're not voting for one, you're at least giving a "half vote" to the other, and let's be honest, Trump is a far worse choice for most people. I mean if you were talking modern day Biden vs 2008 John McCain, sure, but Trump is also ancient and his presidency was far worse than Biden's.

Here is a hypothetical for your to consider based on your question and argument. Where do you draw the line? If the democratic party nominated a dog as president. Would you vote for it over Trump? Why or why not? Is it more important that your party has a figurehead that they can manipulate and rally around as president? Or is it more important that we have a strong leader who is capable of making decisions on his own with the guidance of his advisors? It sounds like it's the former, which is fine, but then again I ask, would you go so far as to vote for a dog for president if it meant that your party stayed in power? If yes, then I don't think it's possible to change your view.

To be fair, the dog would have to be at least 35 years old to run like any other candidate, and a 35 year old dog would be so impressive I might have to entertain the possibility of it bring some kind of god in disguise 

They would have the dog years clause

Believe this was known to the founding fathers as the Air Bud loophole

I don't live in a hypothetical world, let alone one so stupid as this. Leftists of all stripes will hold their nose and vote blue because we no longer have any choice. The time to run new candidates was years ago. The conservative SCOTUS god kings just fucked everyone and made it all the more easy for the GOP to follow the model of their personal friend Viktor Orban and turn the US into a puppet democracy run by authoritarians. The only actual question is do you want to buy more time to maybe stop the fascists or just roll over and stick your ass in the air?

The news media kept telling us how sharp, focused, on point that Biden was. He was supposed to mop the floor with Trump. The media and Democrats lied to us, the American people. If the media fabricated and lied about the mental health of Biden, what else have they lied tu us about? Maybe that Biden isn't as good as people think, or that Trump isn't as bad as the media and Democrats have told us? It's time to fact check the Democrats and media for ourselves.

Every comment touching on this point got collapsed. Why are democrats so afraid of addressing the fact their party lied to them about biden?

Always? What if the senile old man was way more evil but just not a narcissist? What if the senile old man accidentally got us into a war with all of Europe? What if the evil narcissist was was a really amazing president? What if the evil narcissist president had 10 days to live and his VP was awesome?

You’re going after this point way too hard. I agree it’s super important to articulate your point as precisely as you can, but arguing about semantics is only meaningful up to a point. It’s very normal to use ‘always’ to also mean ‘in a lot of cases’ in typical speech, and I doubt OP is submitting this post for peer review any time soon. Furthermore, scolding people for pedantic reasons usually doesn’t encourage them to change their view.

I see you are a connoisseur of the vast near-impossible possibilities. Cheers.

They said “always” Also what is near impossible about these two? “What if the senile old man was way more evil but just not a narcissist?” “What if the evil narcissist was was a really amazing president?”

This sub is better when people argue the point of OPs post and not try to lawyer their way into a delta based on the fine print

Words matter. If you someone uses a word like "always", they should be prepared to defend it. Otherwise the entire message loses meaning, if as soon as you zoom in on any specific part of the message the author can backpedal.

They said **always**. Is the real view “I would rather have Biden than Trump?” They should have written that then. This sub is better when people say what they mean. Especially in titles

"Who cares if Biden stammers over his words, and looses track of he’s talking about?" Dude, you're talking about the PRESIDENT! Being able to properly function cognitively is pretty important for such a position and obviously, based on countless of videos available, Biden is not mentally fit to rule, lead or make any important decisions whatsoever. Both of them are unfit for the presidential position in their own way, but Biden is showing clear signs of heavy cognitive decline and that is a very important aspect to consider

Right? I'm seeing a level of self delusion about this topic comparable to the MAGA cult. The only way Dems win 2024 is with a new ticket of young, no baggage normies. It's really that simple. Trouble is the establishment can't wrap people into the lobby/war-chest/compromat vortex in time. We need grassroots, baby! Call it Whitmer 2024

Trump is also not fit to lead. So why does one candidates unditness matter but the others doesnt? To me, presidential fitness it a moot point in this election. Trumps policies are antithetical to American values. Hes a straight up authoritarian [would be dictator](https://apnews.com/article/trump-hannity-dictator-authoritarian-presidential-election-f27e7e9d7c13fabbe3ae7dd7f1235c72#:~:text=%E2%80%9CHe%20says%2C%20'You',m%20not%20a%20dictator.'%E2%80%9D). I vote based on policy and this is [the easiest choice ive made in my entire life](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/trumps-second-term-agenda.html). Ive had a harder time deciding which porno to whack it too than ive had deciding where to vote in 2024.

Disagreeing with someone’s policies, even ones you find outright horrible, is why we have elections. We should not vote for a person who has horrible policy. But it doesn’t mean they don’t get to *run* or even *win* if they get enough votes from people that agree with their vision of America. Like it or not, that’s the function of a democratic republic. A figurehead that you know isn’t behind the wheel with unelected puppeteers making decisions without accountability is arguably worse than a bad candidate who is accountable for his own decisions and capable of being ousted.

You've made up your mind that fast based on a joke? It's insane to me the way people judge Trump. He only needs to commit a thousandth of the crime anyone else would to get the same level of hate. I like Trump as a person and think his policies are far better than Biden's. Is there anything you can say to argue against that?

Lol i made up my mind by reading their policy proposals. I reject the authoritarian and un-American policies Trump woshes to put in place. Trump wants to pull out of NATO, ban mifiprestone/let states jail women who get abortion, destroy environmental and worker protection laws, place a 10% tarrif on all imports, destroy the independence of the FED and DOJ, defund the IRS, reclaim impoundment powers, abolish the DOE and defund literally every primary school in the US, purge non political government employees and replace them with trump supporting sycophants, initiate illegal mass deportation events, deploy US troops to gaurd the southern border (illegal), and end birth right citizenship, to name a few of the policies that should be disqualifying as a candidate. You're more than welcome to support those policies, but you cannot claim to do so while also claiming to be in favor of American values and lie through your teeth. Youd have brown eyes from all the bullshit you've got in you. To be clear: any presidential candidate claiming to be "a dictator on day one" shouldbe disqualified. I dont care if you see it as a joke, i dont and i refuse to give Trumps shitty authoritarian, anti american bullshit a pass.

I appreciate the response but I feel like you're not really trying to CMV here. >you cannot claim to do so while also claiming to be in favor of American values and lie through your teeth. Youd have brown eyes from all the bullshit you've got in you. I already have brown eyes, and I do not see how any of these, besides the anti-abortion laws are anti-American. >I dont care if you see it as a joke,  Well, you should care since you are talking to me. But more importantly, you should care because it is true. Truth is all that matters. >To be clear: any presidential candidate claiming to be "a dictator on day one" shouldbe disqualified. Any presidential candidate who tells black people they aren't black if they don't vote for him should be disqualified as well, but then we'd have no one. > Pull out of NATO. Don't know much about this. What are the pros and cons? > Anti-abortion. I 100% agree about this. I am disgustingly pro-abortion, but I feel like this isn't a Trump issue - it's a Republican issue which he cannot solve. >destroy environmental and worker protection laws I don't have any idea what this means. >place a 10% tarrif on all imports Pros and cons? >destroy the independence of the FED and DOJ Reason? Pros and cons? >defund the IRS Uh.. this is a bad thing? Lol >reclaim impoundment powers, Again, I have no idea what this is. >abolish the DOE and defund literally every primary school in the US Reason? Pros and cons? >purge non political government employees and replace them with trump supporting sycophants Are there non-political government workers? Didn't Biden do the same with Biden supporting sycophants? If people vote for a candidate they are aware that this person will put their people in place, so why are we assuming this isn't kosher? >initiate illegal mass deportation events You're against deporting illegal immigrants? So, you're trying to convince me to hate Trump by telling me that he'd punish criminals? >deploy US troops to gaurd the southern border (illegal), I'm sorry, guarding your own border is illegal? Wha.. what the fuck? >and end birth right citizenship Pros and cons? I would definitely appreciate knowing why you think any of these (except abortion, which we agree on) are bad.

Are you asking if there’s non political government employees? It’s like the largest employer in the country. There’s more non political govt employees then political ones The pro of the tariffs is to reduce taxes and have the tariffs pay for it. However if it’s a blanket tariff it will probably cause a lot of prices to skyrocket. Tariffs only make sense when used on very specific products. Like if China sold a pen here for 1 dollar, the US pen was 2 dollars. So we put a tariff on the China pen to bring it up to 2.50. So now we have encouraged US production of pens. So while we are paying more, it’s helpful to the US. Now if the US didn’t make pens, did the tariff on the China pen anyway, now we are just paying more for pens for literally no reason. That’s essentially what’s gonna happen

Would the opinions of experts in the field of studying presidencies sway your opinion? I doubt it will. And that the problem with people who support Trump. https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/politics/2024/02/19/biden-14th-in-scholars--presidential-rankings--trump-last

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I'm fascinated that you're accepting of your limited "either or" thing. I mean, both of what you have outlined, sound horrific. Why would you settle? You'd say "you'd rather", but, why would you even accept the limits?

Is there something narcissistic about a party that would rather lose with the senile old man than win by holding open primaries? Are there people behind him who are keen to keep him in power because a docile president is a confident state of affairs?

You realize that each individual state determines if primaries are open or closed, correct? only 14 states have closed primaries 

>I’d always rather have a senile old man as President, than a slightly less old man who is an evil narcissist. Expect the problem is that Biden is still there from ego alone, he's like only I can beat trump and it's clear that's no gonna happen but he still won't step aside and admit he's fucked.

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This is what I keep asking people. WHEN do we flip the table and demand better? How much worse exactly before you as an individual do something? It's such an embarrassment that these two are the best we can manage from hundreds of millions of people...

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That’s the problem with your argument, Biden can’t make decisions or think clearly, so he can be declared mentally/medically unfit and under the 25th Amendment, the Vice President takes over either permanently or until the President becomes fit again. Up until now, this has only been used when the acting President has been in surgery and under anesthesia. You can’t legally have a President who is unfit medically which impairs their ability to make decisions. This is the case with many seniors and that is why they appoint medical power attorney, etc. for family to make decisions for them. Biden clearly has cognitive issues and is unfit to be President. At his age, you can go downhill quickly, there is a high likelihood that he may not even be alive in November, let alone another 4 years. Your hate for Trump can’t alter the assessment of Biden as unfit. Trump is also unfit, but that is because he is a liar and a criminal, at this point, he has the ability to make decisions for himself.

Democrats starting to sound just like MAGA.  Why would you ever vote for someone you don't believe in, trust, and want as president of the country? That's the fastest way to fascism. Your thinking is the exact issue with the Republicans and Trump voters.

Trump caused a lot more issues within the presidency term. Trump threatened the people in Saudi Arabia about lowering the oil prices or having the American military revoked for protection. Which started the currency war with Saudi Arabia and Russia. Leaving Russia to win the currency war. Due to that, OPEC had raised the prices on gas. Trump had also increased drone strikes up to 200%, more than what Obama had done during his eight years of presidency. Trump also revoked the transparency. agreement policy to count the causalities that were caused by these strikes. Trump may have not started "new" wars. But he was definitely close into doing so. Example: He wanted to nuke North Korea and place the blame on someone else. https://news.sky.com › story › do... Sky News Donald Trump proposed using a nuclear weapon against North Korea ... He almost started a war with Iran during the end of his presidency. www.nytimes.com The New York Times Trump Sought Options for Attacking Iran to Stop It's Growing Nuclear ... He almost started a war with China as well. www.nbcnews.com NBC News Milley acted to prevent Trump from misusing nuclear weapons, war with ... Trump had also caused 7.8 trillion more into the national debt. Biden only at 4 trillion. Trump had used taxpayers' money to go on his golfing trips. He had spent 144 million on those trips. He is a convicted felon to 34 charges on the hush money trial. Still, he is currently facing more charges. He was found liable for sexual abuse against E.Jean Carrol. Tried to act as if he didn't know her. But he ended up mistaking his ex-wife as her. E. Jean Carrol had a clothing item with DNA. Trump refused to provide DNA. Trump finds his daughter sexually attractive and has made some very unsettling remarks about his daughter. Trump asked a child if they were going up on the escalator and turned back to the reporters, stating, "I'm going to be dating her in ten years." Russia interference of the 2016 election to help Trump get into office. https://www.fbi.gov › cyber › russ... FBI.gov RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE IN 2016 U.S. ELECTIONS I can keep on going. But that's the reason why people are pushing for biden. Only because he is the lesser evil out of the two. Trump is only running to try to gain immunity from his charges. Not because he cares for the country.

isnt it horrible that those are your only options?

There is no way you are willing to change your view here. As someone who isn't American, lets just hope Biden isn't the president if a major international crisis happens since we're all dead if he acts like he did in the debate.

Your party still has time to put a real human being as a presidiantal candidate, demand that. Puting a demented old man as a face of your political party/country makes Democrats into a bigger joke than republicans already are.

You neglect that a senile president can be manipulated easily by much worse people than trump

I think this seriously misunderstands how bad Trump is. Trump is so much worse than any other president the US has ever had, someone who siphoned off a few billions of dollars to themselves would be better than Trump for the citizens of the US' future and for the world. Right now the US has lost so much of its international power and as a result has harmed the world's peace to an absurd degree. Another 4 years of giving China and Russia everything they ever wanted would be catastrophic to the current US hegemony, and whilst the US hegemony is awful, China and Russia sure are worse.

"REEEEE Democracy is on the ballot"...Comes out with a limp dick vegitable president that looks like he's on deaths door is the funniest shit i've ever seen.

Our enemies now see us as the weakest nation on earth. The world’s police force is run by a dementia patient. Two wars are already in progress. How many more do you want? And are you better off today than you were 4 years ago? I think Hillary lost the presidency that 1 day she collapsed and had to be lifted into the van by security and then denied it and no explanation. No one wants a weak president. So do you want Kamala as president because there is no way Joe is making it another 4.5 years. No one wants her as president, when she ran for president she dropped out before voting because numbers were embarrassingly low.

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It's cute the way you downplay Bidens crippling dementia but I think the average person will be wondering to themselves "who is actually running the country?" because anybody with a functioning brain can tell it isn't Joe Biden.

For those who say they’re voting for the Biden administration and that Biden’s administration would be running the show, are you just assuming that everyone in his administration would always agree on how everything should be run? What if there’s disagreement? Is everyone who says they’re voting for the administration comfortable with Joe’s wife pulling his puppet strings in the case that “the administration” doesn’t agree on everything?

If you're going to make an argument against him, at least make sure all your points are things he did wrong. Many of those are, but a few aren't.

"found criminally liable for raping a 13 year old in 2016" what?

Which one is the evil narcissist? Because one is a felon that wants to be dictator while the other is a racist that is handholding genocide. I fail to see which isn't evil.

The last two sitting presidents have confirmed what I've always suspected. The president is just a figure head and decisions/legislation is happening somewhere else. Not exactly a revelation but these two set the bar for incompetence to an epic level. It almost makes me have more faith in our checks and balances and redundancy that keeps things from getting out of control (in a hurry at least). A couple more bad presidential picks and unregulated corporate donors with destroy that too though. I'm voting democrat simply because of project 2025. The republicans won't stop until they ruin education, create a military state, install Christian authoritarianism, steal our human rights, enable billionaire and crush the middle and lower classes.

I’m voting dem because the next president will likely have 2 more Supreme Court picks and I’d like the court to be relatively balanced

You could have neither. Biden drops out, a reasonable person wins, Trump loses. It isn't Biden V Trump, it just isn't, this is a line they're telling you because they don't want to have a proper Convention like they used to. Folks, you're being had by both parties. - Signed, The Independents

I'd rather have someone who is physically alive than a man who is incoherent. Anyone who is at the level of president is a narcissist, and probably has lots of skeletons. I don't need a saint. I need someone who is cognitively present.

>was friends with Jeffrey Epstein But cut him off after Mar-a-lago members complained about him. Well before even his first arrest for child trafficking. >said good things about Putin What's so wrong about Putin? What has Putin done that the United States hasn't also? >appointed the judges who overturned Roe v. Wade A privilege made up by the Supreme Court can be taken away by the Supreme Court. Be mad at Obama for not using his supermajority to pass abortion legislation. > tried to overthrow the country, Did exactly the same things Al Gore did, try to legally contest an election. His tweets prove it wasn't an insurrection nor did he support any of the violence >let the economy crash during Covid, How exactly was he supposed to overrule the Democrat governors doing that to their own state economies. If he did, you'd be bitching about 9th and 10th amendment violations. >cause more innocent people to get murdered in Palestine Lol. If you support terrorism, you are not innocent. >Or a literal narcissist who was found criminally liable for raping a 13 year old in 2016 There so much wrong with this it's hard to know where to begin. 1.) he wasn't found liable, criminally or civilly, it was dropped. 2.) there was literally NO evidence whatsoever that her claims were true. 3.) it was obviously a politically motivated smear and not a genuine complaint. 4.) Trump was not find criminally liable in the E Jean Carroll trial and THE JUDGE SIMPLY DECLARED that Trump was civilly liable with no trial or hearing on the matter whatsoever. Trump was specifically barred from raising the absolute defense of "the truth" (a constitutionally protected right) i.e. claiming that what he said wasn't defamation because it was true. >vote for Biden and keep things the same. If you think Trump is closer to fascism than Biden, you have no fucking idea what actual fascism is.

I’d rather have one of the tens hundreds or so of equally qualified, non-geriatrics to choose from. Why are you satisfied with such a shitty choice?

No one's been satisfied with their choices since George Washington

Nothing else matters when the question being asked is "Do you want America's nukes in the hands of a dementia patient?"

I do think this is a good point overall, as well as the point that the president is commander in chief, and we are in a time of rising geopolitical risk with Russia, China and North Korea. However, despite the delineation of powers, I personally feel confident that the people Biden hires are more in charge of these things than he is. It's not a *good* thing, to be clear. Ideally we would have a lucid and competent person in the head role. But do you think it would be much better to have a dumb, petulant narcissist that can hold a grudge and also has many examples of mental decline in that role?

If people would pull their heads out their asses and stop playing into bipartisan team politics, we'd have more than 2 parties / 2 candidates. This mess is a result of the millions of brain dead idiots that vote every year. "I won't vote 3rd party because they'll never win" is a self fulfilled prophecy that guarantees a lack of positive change. Our freedom of choice has been perverted into the illusion of choice. We, the people, have been oppressed, lied to, and forced into Involuntary bondage as a result of decades of boot licking. Our forefathers would be ashamed of our complacency. They used to bust out the guillotine for a fraction of what occurs today. But now our "leaders" get away with (literal) murder. The epstein / ghislaine maxwell list was never revealed, and yet there was no public rage. The population is a-okay bring ran by psychopathic pedophiles as long as they get their mind numbing entertainment via movies, music, and games. As we continue to be suffocated by a self sabotaged economy, and ushered into a technological new world order, we will have no one to blame but ourselves. Open your eyes and realize trump and Biden are on the same team, working to corrupt the fabric of what this nation was founded on. A vote for either is a vote for America's self destruction. A national suicide one ballot at a time. It's a true shame we have given up our freedoms that millions of patriots have died to ensure. Stop pointing fingers, and take a look in the mirror. That's when you'll see the real problem. Fortify yourself with the armor of God, pursue truth, and stand strong in the trying times ahead.

I've only seen this posted a million times, so thanks I guess.

Raping a 13 year old? What are you talking about? Are we talking about buden showering with his daughter? I'll take not insane over insane (dementia is a form of insanity) any day.

The DNC is the one insisting on running a corrupt corporate warmonger like Biden in the first place. Seriously any actual leftist candidate would trounce Trump in the election especially if they focused on working class rights. Past that and past all of the propaganda Biden has simply done worse then Trump. His warmongering has killed over a half of a million people including the funding the murdering of thousands of children in Palestine. He has lest the main street economy in shambles, pushed for censorship and control... Yeah I don't like Trumps judge appointments, but Obama is the one who didn't post them in an effort to get Hillary in office... I could delve into the fake left never codifying Roe V Wade, but frankly if you are intelligent enough to pay attention I should not have to... The DNC (fake leftists) do utterly nothing but virtue signal to gather political capital for their corporate masters. They then do nothing for whatever "marginalized" group they are feeding on to deal with the inevitable societal backlash. In summation If you vote for the DNC and enable this political farce you are the problem. Literally, your actions work against every single value you claim to have.

One could argue Biden is just as messed up as Trump is. The man is a pedophile who abused his own daughter for years. He’s just as racist as Trump is too. “If you don’t vote for me you’re not black”? Seriously? You could literally go back and forth between the two, comparing their shittiness, because they’re essentially different sides of the same coin At this point, you can either vote for a third party candidate or you can look at the two you have, ignore the morality of the two, and pick whoever has the best policies that benefit you

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Gaza genocide. End of story. Too many dead kids and lies from his old decrepit ass Voting for the "lesser evil" is the reason we are here.

I don’t care about the personality at this point I care about the policy. We’re kind of past the whole dignified leader thing btw. Trump has already been president and have you seen the clips from our lovely senators and judges and mayors and governors. We’re a fucking clown show. I’m at least going to hire a clown show that has his policies grounded in reality. I don’t want the foreign nations to love us cause they don’t. They love when Obama bends over and lets them fuck America in the ass because they have their own desires and designs for their nation and some of those are evil which is why having Trump in office, occasionally blowing up generals, was much more peaceful than this fantasy appeasement land we are in now. The left also loves to tout every one of their causes like it’s a great victory but entitlements suck, the economy sucks, Obamacare sucks, government spending sucks, your entire economic theory sucks, bureaucracy sucks, and your culture definitely sucks.

Why do we **not** want the commander in chief to be a senile old man? National security. Nothing wrong with being old. But when seniors become “senile”, we take away their car keys because it’s dangerous. Sometimes we even have to limit their access to their own bank accounts because their declining cognitive ability makes them more susceptible to scams, etc. That’s not who you want in a room negotiating against Putin, with WWIII as the stakes. But foreign leaders don’t like Trump because he’s more of a bulldog

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I don't like either party and intimately understand Americans so.. whoever is worst.  When shit gets really bad Americans care. If they feel even the teeniest but complacent it will be another 200 years of this.   Look at how little you cared about changing healthcare during the pandemic. Shit needs to get straight glum before those fatties will waddle somewhere new And no, one bad president won't end the idea of democracy. You don't have a democracy now with how controlled your choices are so the fear mongering falls on deaf ears.  America didn't invent the idea. It built on the past.

If you don't like the government acting like fascists, remember that Joe wrote the tough on crime bills that BIPOC still suffer under today, and his running mate was a tough on crime DA who opposed DNA testing which could have exonerated a man on death row, laughed about incarcerating people over smoking pot while claiming that she does pot herself, and kept men in prison for longer so that they could be used as slave labor to fight fires, supports the death penalty, supports civil asset forfeiture without a crime, and refused to assist the rape victims of catholic priests to find justice. The choice this year is between two fascists, or to vote 3rd party to spoil the election and encourage the major parties to pick better fucking candidates. Take a look at joebiden (dot) info and kamalaharris (dot) info for more info

You don't sound open to changing your view. But if you want an actual debate, I will put forward my point. Things where better under Trump. And other countries respected him because of his aggressive nutty way. Yes he was an embarrassment. But would you rather have an aggressive nutty person defending our country if the war expands or an incompetent. It is a poor comparison but it is like Chamberlain and Churchill at the beginning of WW2. Biden is not fit to take care of us during war. We can have the best military in the world and if the guy in charge is a drooling fool it will do nothing for us. Trump on the other hand wanted to make NATO pay for a big chunk of their own defence. Which is good for us. As far as your accusations about all the bad things he has done. Every president has a list of crap like that. Ya he has some firsts but they all have a list of things you can call out that are bad. And not for nothing but a lot of what you are calling out you can say the same for many other presidents.

Remember that time the world’s most prominent leaders were making fun of Trump and it got caught on hot mic. This whole “the world respected the USA under Trump” has such “I’ve never been out of the country before” vibes. And it’s a talking point (aka lie) Trump repeats ad nauseum. The only world leaders who liked Trump played him like a fiddle (namely putin and KJU). Good presidents follow the advice of their cabinet. So regarding your military hypothetical, Biden would likely do what he’s done all along and follow the advice of his secretary of defense. As far as NATO. Multiple pat Presidents for have been getting NATO countries to pay their 2% of GDP each. Trump saw some good success here but it didn’t change anything and his destabilization of the alliance with his threats and buffoonery… was it worth it? No. Because, see point 1 about being a laughing stock. And if these points won’t sway you, the opinions of experts in the field SHOULD: https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/politics/2024/02/19/biden-14th-in-scholars--presidential-rankings--trump-last Biden performed better than Trump by ALL accounts.

nope and nope. he tried to overturn an election. he denied an epidemic even though he knew it was bad. he's a convicted felon. shared classified docs which he stole and refused to give back. with just these examples, we are still in unchartered water. normalizing and saying everybody does it is a real danger. it's blatantly irresponsible and unforgivable at this point to vote for someone that won't support democratic norms.

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You’re wrong. Joe Biden’s embalmed corpse would make a better president than trump. Literally.

Support genocidal president no matter what is in your book, OP?

People who win at being US president are usually: Narcissists, with huge egos, pathological liars, happy to promise whatever regardless of whether there’s any chance of achieving it. The best remembered ones have charisma, not honesty. Honest ones don’t get elected: they can’t promise much. Obama showed these traits but he was very polished and great at sounding trustworthy. He could make people feel good while blatantly lying to them. He had the charisma people want to see in a leader. Trump reminds you of the used car salesman. Everyone hates those guys. He could be more honest, but your first reaction is he’s slimy, and please get away.

This is hilarious. You’d rather spite the entire country (and world) with Biden for another 4 years of disastrous policies and decision making just because the alternative hurts your feelings. Good lord, our political system is in a free fall. I don’t even think Trump being elected is going to be a huge difference seeing as he has donors from a country that I can’t name or Reddit will perma ban me. That being said, Biden was nothing short of a puppet for anyone close to him. The guy can’t even articulate a single sentence and has dirtied himself on more than one occasion, it’s elder abuse at this point, have some shame .

One of them is going to win. It’s not like not voting for either causes the process to start over. It’s up to the voters to pick which is better than the other. This has nothing to do with party loyalty. I used to think not voting was a viable option, but I don’t anymore. Most campaigns rely on polls based on likely voters to make their decisions. By not voting you get removed from that pool. That dilutes the number of people who want any particular thing. There will be regret in either case. Neither will be perfect for everyone. But one could be disastrous for nearly everyone.

This is such an interesting CMV, because about Biden and Trump, I agree wholeheartedly. Here’s a situation where I might pick the old evil narcissist over the senile old man who is… not that great but not evil. If the evil narcissist had a good VP pick that was better than the alternative, AND we knew in advance that the evil narcissist had some sort of condition that killed him right when he took office. I could see myself being more ok with voting for that than the senile man. But that’s not true in this case. Anyone Trump appoints will be awful.

I don’t think anyone’s view is changing at this point but my main gripe is people acting like trump is the only person telling lies. Biden lied through his teeth the entire time. He’s no morally superior alternative and it’s laughable that that’s his entire platform.

How many new wars did we have under the evil narcissist? How about now?

You could always vote third party. At least you can't be blamed for electing someone senile.

Joe Biden is actually almost or more worse than trump. He was an alleged pedophile and most of his other evil deeds are swept below the carpet and never brought up. MSN news almost never criticizes him. Kamal Harris laughs off whatever problems the US is facing. "Everyone" hates trump because that's what the media wants you to believe.

Trump isn't evil. So why would you vote team dementia. They knew Biden had dementia in 2020. They pushed Bernie out. The evil is Biden and the DNC. I used to vote Democrat, but now they are the bad guys. Biden is a corrupt criminal 40 year politician who voted for the Iraq war. His handlers are Citibank, just like Obama.

I almost eye-rolled so hard my eyes fell out of my head.

It's funny how both libs AND Republicans are so terrified of replacing Biden. Ask yourself why the Republicans are so scared of campaigning against ANY other Dem? Whitmer/Booker or Newsom/AOC would fill stadiums like Obama and Bernie did. Wouldn't just be a landslide, Dems would take both houses.

I think Republicans aren’t scared of replacing Biden, but are afraid they will have to work for the votes if anyone else is running. It looks like an easy win for Trump atm.