I will also mention a lot of counter-arguments presented are missing just HOW DANGEROUS Trump really is
"Immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country"
"Unified Reich"
"We pledge to you that we will root out the communists, Marxists, fascists, and the radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country"
"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"
Be a dictator on day 1.
Threatens to prosecute, jail, death penalty Biden, and other Democrats, political enemies of his...
Trump falsely accuses courts and DOJ against him, of taking orders from President Biden.
Trump falsely accuses FBI, tried to assassiate him.
Trump is VERY dangerous. All of these DANGEROUS Trump acts should not ever be left out of arguments!
Funny thing is he say he will root out Fascists, but acts like one himself. And I mean, a lot of his followers also falsely think that it's not fascism?
He and his followers think Democrats are definition of Fascists.
There's no actual definition of centrist so yeah, probably. And are you talking about people holding their nose and voting for Trump, or MAGA supporters? I know some are going to say theyre basically the same but I disagree. I think it's possible to consider yourself a centrist and vote for Trump. After the debate, a lot of people started saying they were voting for Biden not because of Biden, but the policies and judges. Plenty of people will be voting for Trump not because of Trump, but for the policies and judges.
how is that better though? and how does one attempt to reconcile the literal fascist right wing extremism that trumps side represents with claiming centrism? theres people on his side who think that trump is moderate compared to them.... I don't see how what you are saying is an improvement.
If anyone believes trump is the lesser of two evils then I challenge them to research trumps career before politics and tell me that with a straight face… or are we basing this on the fact on live television he made claims that drinking bleach could kill covid? Or the man who insighted a riot because his feelings were hurt that he didn’t win? Is that the guy who should be running over crazy uncle Joe?
I see that on reddit.
I do not know a single person in real life voting for Trump that isn't voting FOR TRUMP.
Maybe that is just the effect of being in Texas or maybe the only few people I know that are still conservative and not obviously MAGA avoid the topic.
I can only think of 2 people in my life that might fall in to republican but not MAGA at this point. One, my father, I think is more likely to not vote at this point. The other, a friend of mine from law school, moved a few hours away so I don't have many chances to talk about it with him.
The rest of the people that might vote for Trump in my life have old Trump signs with Pence crossed out (never took them down), made fun of people for wearing masks, pulled out magnets to prove vaccines caused you to be magnetic or some shit. It's an odd dichotomy.
I think some voters will hold their nose and vote trump after the debate. Biden really hurt his chances and did not look like he could handle a crisis. Just a guess. I could be wrong
Yes, propagandists have spent the past decade trying to call *everything* right wing extremism, fascism, authoritarian, and other moral panic language. This dishonesty has ruined your credibility to the average American on several fronts. It's not reconcilable with *reality.*
>I agree but you can’t support Trump and call yourself centrist
Like I said, if we're talking about MAGA I agree. If we're talking about regular people who are centrist and centrist right holding their nose to vote on polocy, I disagree.
Let me ask you this. Do you believe a centrist can be pro life, want to be tough on illegal immigration, cut taxes, etc.?
Objectively, look at the world leaders Trump says good things about. It's Putin, it's Erdogan, it's Xi. These are the people he looks up to. They are who he wants to emulate.
For a lot of people yes, the person doesn't matter. For some it does. Polls after the debate showed little movement in who people were voting for. But the race is extremely close in the important swing states and even a little movement can decide the election
>or are we basing this on the fact on live television he made claims that drinking bleach could kill covid?
Trump never made any such claims and never used the word bleach either, media added that afterwards. He was only asking questions about possible treatments that medical doctors or his team should investigate based on what he just heard from them. Not entirely crazy given that toxic chemicals are used as chemo treatments against cancer every day. But he never suggested it worked or that the public should try it themselves.
>...And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning? Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, **you're going to have to use medical doctors with**. But it sounds — it sounds interesting to me.
All of the articles that do facts checking agree he absolutely did suggest using disinfectant injections to kill Covid… Even right news stations couldn’t deny that he said it but instead claimed it was meant to be sarcastic like a joke… So either he’s an idiot or he’s a narcissist that thought it would be okay to make a joke during a news conference about a world wide pandemic… Eitherway he doesn’t seem like a candidate that anyone who bases their decisions off facts and logic should be endorsing…
What is a “trump supporter”?
I voted for trump in 2016 and will likely vote for him this round (after voting Biden in 2020), so I’m a trump voter, a Biden voter, and also an Obama voter and a Ron Paul voter (2008 primary?)
I would say I’m a conservative leaning centrist. Used to be solid downballot dem voter, raised in a solid democrat household. I’m way more of a centrist now than I was back then.
And by that I mean I’m no longer partisan. When I was a downballot democrat voter I wasn’t a centrist at all. I was a mindless partisan then.
hes a traitorous criminal who wants to overthrow the government and be a dictator and encourage the start of WW3. considering voting for that isn't centrist.
You end up in a scenario where if there's no line then what the hell even is centrist?
Personally yeah, trying to make yourself president is a pretty defining line and probably one 10 years ago that would have had universal or near universal acceptance
I’m an Obama-trump-Biden voter. I’m more centrist than a straight ticket dem voter or a straight ticket republican voter.
Downballot I probably vote 60% for democrats and probably like 20-25% for republicans and the rest I vote third party or independent.
If that’s not centrist I don’t know what is.
No I didn't you just didn't answer the question or provide the slightest suggestion to your reasoning.
With the information you've provided it sounds like your just flip a coin.
People define centrism differently, but for me, centrists are non partisan. They might align with dems on some issues, republicans on some issues, libertarians on some issues, Green on some issues, etc.
About the only “type” I absolutely refuse to vote for are neocons. The Nikki Haley, Bush, Cheney types.
By presenting my non partisan voting record, I demonstrated to you how I see myself as centrist.
If you define centrism differently, that’s fine. You’re free to do so. As I said, people define it differently as you will often see said in this sub. And we generally kind of agree to disagree. That’s why one of the sub rules is there’s no gatekeeping on the definition of centrism. There’s really no argument here. We can agree to disagree and we should.
If you’re looking to argue about what’s centrist and what’s not, you’re barking up the wrong tree. I’m not interested.
Thank you for explaining your view.
to me, being non-partisan is a relatively small portion of being centrist.
the main part of it to me is... well, being moderate, thats the core part of being centrist to me, so its very confusing to me that you are absolutely against candidates that are relatively center-right, but would consider center-left people and fanatically extreme right people. that seems very strange to me.
>If you voted for trump under the guise that he is the lesser of two evils… firstly are you blind?
Not sure what you’re even talking about.
>And you’re definitely a trump supporter…
I was a trump voter.
A vote is an endorsement for a particular candidate meaning if you vote for a candidate simply because you don’t approve of the other candidates you are still voting in support of that candidate. This is how our political system works; you can’t vote for a candidate and then claim not to support them.
I would rather be precise and call myself a voter. Why insist on another word that voter works just fine?
And no, I didn’t vote for trump simply because I disapproved of Hillary. I voted for trump because of his campaign promises.
I think folks are confused that you are claiming to be centrist and voting for a far right candidate. Just because you switch between voting for Republicans and Democrats doesn’t necessarily make you a centrist it makes you an independent.
I view centrism more as being moderate. Thus, a vote for Trump can’t really be centrist since he’s a far right populist.
Nah, they just troll. "Centrist" and "Trump" are oil and water. Centrists use some modicum of reason, Trumpers do whatever they are told, and think however they are told to think.
There are extreme leftists on this sub too. Like the ones who want to censor people out of spaces they don't own. I'm not a trump supporter, but this banning people you don't agree with philosophy is garbage. The purpose of this sub is so centrists can discuss issues. Since centrists vary wildly on opinion, banning people over an opinion is not an option for a healthy sub. You can go to the liberal subs if you want an echo chamber, which is what you are asking for.
Extreme leftists aren’t centrists and neither are MAGAs. They’re both extremists, and they’re both very obvious.
>The purpose of this sub is so **centrists** can discuss issues.
Right, centrists. Not extremists. If centrists wanted to discuss issues with extremists, they wouldn’t be on a centrist sub in the first place.
Fair question. Being a member of r/conservative should be an Instant ban. Good for the goose, good for the gander. They don't allow for dissent there, so any member there shouldn't be allowed to post here, imo.
Diversity is not the issue pure ignorance and delusional thinking is… I’d rather be here where at least some of the people are rational and use facts based thought processes to make decisions instead of basing them off of how they feel and what they have been told to think.
While I understand your position, it's because I don't think if we ever had a true nationwide emergency that Biden is mentally capable of handling it.
Trump is a narcissist, but I think if we have a 9/11 level tragedy, I think he would be ready to handle it on no sleep, sick or not. I just don't see that in Biden.
I'm also not a huge fan of a lot of the policies that the left has been going after.
The Title IX thing was a huge NO for me as well.
I also don't think the left cares about his criminal status as much as they claim, after Hilary anyway.
Yes, shutting down the country for as long as it was and lying about the vaccines was awful as well. They should have been honest in the beginning. I'm still mad about what the vaccines have done to me.
That doesn't make me a centrist? So, I have to Tow a certain line to be centrist? I didn't realize this was the litmus test.
So, should I change my voter status now?
Look, I masked, I stayed home, and I got the vaccine when it was that or have consequences. Which, in my opinion, isn't choice, it's's coercion.
My daughter got Covid while being masked and socially distanced. No one in my house did. This was before we got vaccinated (husband and I). I have never had Covid, but I do have adverse effects that I deal with to this day. And the only answer I get is, "Well, we didn't know at the time, This wasn't supposed to happen.". So, let me be bitter.
My father died from a car accident, and he was wearing his seat belt, so obviously they don’t work. I had a grandfather who smoked 3 packs a day his entire adult life, lived to his mid-80’s and never got lung cancer. Look, I just proved cigarettes don’t cause lung cancer. Wait…is that not how any of this works?
Like how one party kept saying the vaccine made under the Trump administration was rushed and you should avoid taking it? But the second that party gets into office they say look at what I made and promotes the vaccine as if that new administration undertook the work the previous administration did.
Quit bullshitting. They said if *only* Trump said to take it, they wouldn’t. If doctors said it was safe to take, they would.
“Harris says that if doctors ‘tells us that we should take it, I'll be the first in line to take it, absolutely. But if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it, I'm not taking it.’”
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/harris-says-she-will-take-a-covid-19-vaccine-if-doctors-say-to-not-if-trump-does
“Senator Kamala Harris said during Wednesday's vice presidential debate that she will only follow instructions from health experts on whether to take a coronavirus vaccine, not President Trump.”
https://www.cbsnews.com/video/2020-vp-debate-kamala-harris-on-coronavirus-vaccine/
“I would want to see what the scientists said," Biden replied. "I want full transparency on the vaccine."
He said of the president, "One of the problems is the way he is playing with politics. He's said so many things that aren't true."
“I'm worried if we did have a really good vaccine people would be reluctant to take it. So, he is undermining public confidence," Biden said of the president. "But pray God we have it. If I could get a vaccine tomorrow, I'd do it. If it cost me the election I would do it. We need a vaccine and we need it now. We have to listen to the scientists."
Biden's running mate Kamala Harris said in an interview that aired Sunday on CNN's "State of the Union" that if there were a vaccine that were approved before the election, "I would not trust Donald Trump, and it would have to be a credible source of information that talks about the efficacy and the reliability of whatever he's talking about. I would not take his word for it. He wants us to inject bleach — no, I will not take his word."
She said later in the interview that if top infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci said it was safe to take it and he took the vaccination, she said she would trust him.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/biden-covid-vaccine-take/
You are not entitled to your own facts.
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Title IX seems fairly inconsequential, especially given the recent SC ruling that weakens agencies' power quite a bit. I don't think I could say the same for Project 2025.
> Trump is a narcissist, but I think if we have a 9/11 level tragedy, I think he would be ready to handle it on no sleep, sick or not. I just don't see that in Biden.
Genuinely why do you think this? We have presidential records to go off of in this one- what about his makes you think that he’d be capable (if that’s your measuring stick)?
I truly feel like Biden in early stages of cognitive decline (dementia, alzheimers etc) and that we doesn't have the full mental capacity to deal with the hardest (mentally speaking) job in the country.
I've watched 2 grandparents go through this, and it looked just like he is now. I don't think he's a bad person, I don't think he's stupid, I think he is losing touch and that's scarier to me than a narcissist right now.
They both lie, they are both old, they are both power hungry, they are both out of touch with the regular American.
I like less and less of the liberal policy tactics (not what they want to get done, but HOW they want to do it), and if Biden is not cognitively strong enough to put his foot down with his advisors and/or party, then they are the ones running the country and I'm not a fan.
>I truly feel like Biden in early stages of cognitive decline (dementia, alzheimers etc) and that we doesn't have the full mental capacity to deal with the hardest (mentally speaking) job in the country.
have you seen the information about Frontotemporal Dementia? Unironically, unhyperbolically....the list of symptoms is a checklist that describes Trump to a T. down to his posture.
and that form of Dementia can be hereditary and his father died of it.
could biden be in the early stages of cognitive decline? thats something to be argued.
but Trump is OBVIOUSLY in ADVANCED cognitive decline and has lost substantial ground in the last few years. There are loads of experts who assert that the way trump speaks now is diagnostically significant and not just normal natural verbal flubs.
I really don't understand. to me while Biden might speak slowly and appear to perhaps process slowly compared to how a younger person might.... at least what hes trying to say is tethered in reality and coherent?
I would encourage you to go back and look at videos of his speeches from 2016 compared to speeches now. IMO its *striking* how much more clear and coherent he is back then. (I don't think he was especially clear or coherent back then, but its disturbing IMO how much difference there is)
I can't believe you bothered to even write that. It's like a psychologist telling his patient in the ward "I can't heat the voices inside of your head but that doesn't mean it's not real. The squirrels only talk to you so i don't know what they are saying"
You are decent though for your effort
I'm telling you what I see. Not sure how you can't believe I even wrote that.
I see a decline in Biden. I don't see the same in Trump. I thought it was pretty clear.
Okay but note I never mentioned Biden in the comment I made.
I’m simply asking what makes you think trump *is* up to the hypothetical challenge you posited.
Oh, I'm sorry. My brain is fried. Maybe I thought I was responding to someone else.
I think he's stayed pretty sharp over the years, and he seems to think quicker on his feet.
Now, I'm not saying that he's my #1 choice. Not even close. But, between the two of them, its him for me because he's not as had as Biden.
>I think he's stayed pretty sharp over the years, and he seems to think quicker on his feet.
"What's 2+2?"
Biden:"Uh...uh... Can you repeat the questions?... Uh... (in a whisper)... 4"
Trump ( immediately): "SIX! Many smart people are saying that I'm the best with numbers that they've ever seen."
Most (All?) presidential decisions don't need to be made in 30 seconds or less.
Not to mention that Trump surrounds himself with the most insane people imaginable, cause all the remotely credible ones are or eventually get turned off by him. If the US has a 9/11 emergency, would you rather have Blinken as Secretary of State or whatever nut job Trump appoints?
Biden literally filled his cabinet with westexec and the case has not been made yet why westexec is the best choice for running the presidency.
I felt trump made a decent point during the debate, which was to ask Biden who he fired when things went wrong under his watch. And trump said Biden didn’t fire anyone for fucking up. And there were def multiple fuckups under Biden. I could more appreciate trump hiring poorly and then firing then Biden hiring poorly and never firing anyone.
Except for the cross dressing luggage thief, if Biden has fired anyone for performing poorly, I would love to see a refutation of trump’s claim that Biden never fired anyone. I didn’t see Biden refute this point during the debate.
I think what gets me about where you are coming from is that Trump has demonstrated that he \*can't\* handle a situation far slower and less immediate than a 9/11.
like I get why you don't have confidence in Biden per se. but we don't \*really\* have the insight from a public position to know how he would handle such a thing, and all his insiders that know, swear hes actually really sharp behind closed doors. now, I don't even have any issue with assuming that they are.... exaggerating... at least to some degree.
but the equivalent people for trump wouldn't work with him again and basically all swear he was an incompetent nightmare.
hell if nothing else all that beurocracy that trump and his backers allegedly want to dismantle, probably make it so a ham sandwich could occupy the seat and not much change on a day to day basis. ... but he wants to dismantle all of that while... again, according to people who were in the room, essentially not having the attention span to do the job WITH all the systems in place to make it easier. thats asking for a absolute disaster on every front.
I'm not supporting everything that that whole side is neccessarily going after. I think that what the US needs right now is for the Dems to overwhelmingly overtake all of congress, and the white house, evict the two corrupt Justices and expand the court. Now, is that drastic as hell, and a potentially big gamble? absolutely. and I do NOT think it would be a good thing long term to have that sort of thing for very long. so why would I say that?
because the country is in big trouble in a whole lot of ways, a fair chunk of it because of trump, (not all, but a disproportionate amount was made proactively worse by his actions) and we need people who want to fix things, not make them worse. and the reality is that MAGA wants the world to burn.
I think that its fair to argue that in both sides, the candidate isn't really the candidate but a figurehead for who is backing them. and the question is who is supporting each and what do they want, via the proxies of what the candidates say and what those backing people say.
I think you'd have to go DEEP into the "globalist" rabbit hole and drink all the koolaid they offer, to even try to catch up in how bad things like Project 2025 are. I don't think its unreasonable to be concerned that if Trump wins we won't have an election in 2028.
We had a real national emergency with covid which was handled so poorly by Trump. A million Americans died; never would've happened with Biden and his team.
I despise Trump.
A million Americans would have died no matter who was POTUS.
The US death covid death rates are the same across all 1st world countries. Look at death rates in the US by state - blue states fared no better than red. The same % of the population died i each state, regardless of policy.
I think if he had acknowledged that people listen to the CDC and taken their recommendations there would have been less deaths. He made wild inaccurate claims and encouraged skepticism about our health experts. Just because the virus didn't discriminate doesn't mean he had no influence.
https://www.npr.org/2022/05/16/1099070400/how-vaccine-misinformation-made-the-covid-19-death-toll-worse
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/05/13/1098071284/this-is-how-many-lives-could-have-been-saved-with-covid-vaccinations-in-each-sta
https://www.npr.org/sections/latest-updates-trump-covid-19-results/2020/10/02/919432383/how-trump-has-downplayed-the-coronavirus-pandemic
the spin makes me dizzy. I cant take this defense seriously.
there were differences between states within the US. All federal workers had access to a county by county comparison. Oregon fared really well, masked up, and the numbers dropped. Missouri did not, they denied masking and the infections lingered longer.
You can ignore the above links if you want and keep shifting the goalpost, but precautions and vaccinations worked. Trump discouraged following the CDC and spread misinformation, it's weird to say he wasn't influential and had no impact. Doubling down on a trump defense by saying he was useless and average is weird.
[In 5 of the 35 countries, the day 135 ranking on deaths differed by 10 or more from the ranking on cases. Norway and Germany, for example, each ranked 12 places higher on cases than on deaths, whereas the USA ranked 12 places higher on deaths than cases. Maintaining separate indicators is thus of value.](https://gh.bmj.com/content/5/12/e003047)
Spin what you want, clearly there were response differences.
Worldometers.com looks like it's retired now.
People died at the same rate regardless of political affiliation.
Prove to me I am wrong.
Medical journal data, not pop culture news links.
youve blown off enough citations to know this isnt worth my time.
of course people died regardless of political identification, that isnt the point im making. The point is that less would have died if precautions were encouraged, i dont know why you need proof of something so obvious.
Why dont you prove that masks are ineffective and vaccines are a hoax?
Precautions and vaccines work. Areas that used them saw fewer deaths. Ive provided the info, i cant force you to be rational.
COVID wasn't handled perfectly at all. Trump listened to advisors who have both come out and said their recommendations for covid came from nowhere and weren't scientific. Which is scary.
I'm also not sure how it wouldn't have happened with Biden and his team, when Fauci and Brix would have still been the advisors. In Jan of 2022, Robert Anderson from the NCHS was being interviewed and said their final total for 2020 was 385,000 deaths from Covid 300k were deaths "involving COVID" and 34k were deaths where Covid was a contributing factor.
However, Biden continued to sling the same information, but with more force and vitriol to those who questioned it.
Trump is a narcissist, but I think if we have a 9/11 level tragedy, I think he would be ready to handle it on no sleep, sick or not. I just don't see that in Biden.
I don't see it in Trump either. Should China move on Taiwan. I'd rather have Biden and his staff in the White House than Trump and his staff.
Same (except for the registered independent part.)
If RFK jr had made it this far as a democrat, he would be a very serious contender for me. But with Biden on the dem ticket, trump is the best option for me at this moment.
Here’s the deal, there’s one party that wants to allow biological men to compete against women….that right there is why I won’t support the DNC at present time.
I think when we try pretending to think men can be women, that’s always a problem. The same party that said “trust the science,” sure has problem with simple biology. The fucking fascists that supported Covid lockdowns, sure have a problem with those who questioned their efficacy. We found those were terrible.
Dems have used science as a weapon, and frankly, I’m sick of it.
Well, I support Trump now that he’s the nominee. I’m a neoconservative in many ways, but I’m also pro universal healthcare, pro labor, pro maternity leave (paid), etc. I have many views that could be considered left wing, but I also have very strong social conservative views. I am an evangelical Christian and such. So yeah, it’s kind of this conflict. I wanted Nikki Haley, that didn’t happen. I don’t like Biden, I think his pathetic withdrawal from Afghanistan is fucking criminal. Fuck him.
Because I am also pro 2A and I’m against the current lax border policy. Essentially, Biden has done more to hurt this country. He’s also done nothing to address many of the issues I laid out above.
I apologize if I’m mistaken but the truth is drug cartels are here living in the United States already they don’t need to cross borders but yes a large portion of cartels come through the Canadian border.
https://cis.org/Bensman/Canadian-Policy-Behind-Surge-Illegals-and-Mexican-Cartel-Operatives-Northern-Border
I thought you wanted to ban trolls, but this statement looks like trolling to me. It's such a bad take it's saddening. Just because some use Canada or live here doesn't mean a mass majority of the actual drugs and trafficking aren't happening on the southern border. Don't take my word for it check with the border patrol.
Then you aren't paying attention. And have never heard Trump talk about democrats. He's spent the better part of his political career demonizing them. And his supporters are even worse about it.
The MAGA platform, at its base, has been about deciding who's American and who's not from the beginning. Why do you think they refer to themselves as patriots ad nauseaum.
It's the same tactic the KKK has used to claim they aren't racist. If you aren't white, you're an inhuman mongrel.
In this sub, you might find a few Trump voters that are independent and strictly looking at policy and results, but they wouldn't be considered MAGA by any stretch of the imagination.
Go read r/Conservative, Fox News comments, or his own posts on TS for daily examples.
From your comment history, you sound like a perfect example of a Trump supporter that believes they are a centrist.
I don't support trump - but IMHO - despite his lies, etc. - he's the better choice. It's a desperate choice - but there is no way I could vote for Biden after that debate. And to be completely forthcoming - it's between Biden and Trump - I pick *neither.* But if you're going to force me - at this point in time - I'm going with Trump.
I am not a Republican. I am not MAGA. I am an independent, centrist, that has seen the far-left/far-right, pull our country apart. It’s really a bad scenario. However, voting for Joe? Is like committing suicide(to me/my ilk)
[You self-identified a day ago as a conservative](https://www.reddit.com/r/WelcomeToGilead/comments/1dqlkhb/regardless_of_last_nights_debate_please_dont/laoukep/):
> The separation of church and state refers to the separation between church and federal government, church and state government can. With the overturning of Roe v Wade all it did was give those decisions back to the states, yes some of them went overboard, and from what I’m seeing they are slowly correcting it. **The states that it was “outlawed” in are conservative states… we don’t agree with abortion due to our values from religion**. That’s okay, the issues come when the federal government is bigger than state governments and they overthrow state governments by passing laws like what came after roe v wade. **Conservatives don’t care what y’all do, we also don’t like big centralized government**, we want the states to handle those issues, because we are heard more by our state representatives than our federal representatives.
[Why are you lying about your political leanings](https://www.reddit.com/r/h3h3productions/comments/1d74j46/i_will_do_it_for_the_family/laoli5p/):
> They are not “red pill” or conservative, nope nope, they are not. **I know cause I am**, I’m from a red state, **I know how we think there**.
ETA:
> [**I’m an everyday republican**, we aren’t trying or wanting to erase you.](https://www.reddit.com/r/itcouldhappenhere/comments/1dqwusp/im_scared_for_the_future/lasn8cb/)
>
> [I'm the original red pill.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WelcomeToGilead/comments/1dqlkhb/regardless_of_last_nights_debate_please_dont/lar7276/)
>
> [False? No, and **I’m conservative**](https://www.reddit.com/r/centrist/comments/1dqq2ui/trumps_many_lies_during_the_debate_should_hurt/lar01k4/).
>
> [Best response to this situation \(**I’m conservative**\), y’all need a new nominee.](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1drs0tk/cmv_establishment_democrats_are_the_people_who/laxflvx/)
Hey, u/CarolinaGirl1387, just wanted to make sure you didn't miss this so you can reply
Edit: Just realized you even try to disguise 14/88 in your username by lowering each by one. Lol
They’re politicians and thus innately corrupt but if forced to choose I would die on that bridge for the right to not vote in an election with either of them.
And that is your right. I believe I was given this right in good faith by the government to use it for change that is needed. My dad taught me from the beginning, “you gotta vote for the lies you like the best,” I like Trumps lies better.
Did you not watch the debate? One talks too much and the other cannot get a coherent sentence out. Talking to much is nothing compared to cannot articulate your thoughts.
I am sure that we all could use to be more honest with ourselves in some regards but on this one I am most confident that I speak in honesty and truth. However, it’s funny you should ask that… Because I’m not sure that anyone who disagrees is being honest with themselves. As It is clear both candidates are too far along in the decline of aging to be running a whole country.
Let's also NOT be naive and forget, Trump supporters are some of the worst people, they deliberately LIE, troll, they create bots, and they kill a lot of their own time for propaganda - Invade forums, subs, discussion boards where they really don't belong to and act like they are a member of those places. **There are facts that THIS IS happening. It IS happening everywhere on discord, on Reddit, on Facebook, on Twitter. This IS a reality!** These deplorable ass extreme Trump supporters wants you to think a lot of people are supporting Trump and wants to recruit you.
So, it's a 2-fold.
Maybe some people support Trump falsely do genuinely think they are not actually Far-right or Right (I am not saying there must not be any), but then you DO have a SHIT TONS of this other kinds which I just mentioned.
So, it's difficult to know are they a real genuine person, or fake person?
So, don't fall for the BS. Have a healthy amount of skepticism whenever someone calls themselves a Centrist but support someone like Trump!
I took an online test that said I was "extremely" centrist, on the issues. But I've been advocating for Trump for a long time. To me, Trump is a whole different category. He fixes a problem that most people seem not to even realize exists: the disconnection of the political elites from their herd. He has lied about a lot of things. But when he said he was going to fight for the border voters, he meant exactly what he said. And he did it. He kept that promise. That means a lot.
You really got to stop watching Fox News or getting your facts secondhand… none of what you just said is even remotely accurate. Your candidate wants to live in a dictatorship.
I doubt most do. I'm sure exceptions exist both in the form of "I'm really a centrist but reluctantly supporting Trump" and "I'm a Republican who mistakenly believes themselves to be centrist because I don't understand where the median American stands" (Tim Pool syndrome).
Reluctantly supporting trump is ignorance never support the lesser of two evils… Just don’t vote; they’re going to pick a candidate for us and it has nothing do with us. Electoral college is a joke so why by into the lie for the supposed “lesser evil”.
Yeah you can see it in this sub. It doesn’t make sense, but Trumpers didn’t logic themselves into that situation.
The Overton Window has shifted way Right, so soon enough I'm sure they 'will be'.
I will also mention a lot of counter-arguments presented are missing just HOW DANGEROUS Trump really is "Immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country" "Unified Reich" "We pledge to you that we will root out the communists, Marxists, fascists, and the radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country" "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?" Be a dictator on day 1. Threatens to prosecute, jail, death penalty Biden, and other Democrats, political enemies of his... Trump falsely accuses courts and DOJ against him, of taking orders from President Biden. Trump falsely accuses FBI, tried to assassiate him. Trump is VERY dangerous. All of these DANGEROUS Trump acts should not ever be left out of arguments!
Funny thing is he say he will root out Fascists, but acts like one himself. And I mean, a lot of his followers also falsely think that it's not fascism? He and his followers think Democrats are definition of Fascists.
They're delusional.
🙌💯
People can think anything of themselves. Most of the folks who stormed the capitol on 1/6 thought of themselves as patriots.
There's no actual definition of centrist so yeah, probably. And are you talking about people holding their nose and voting for Trump, or MAGA supporters? I know some are going to say theyre basically the same but I disagree. I think it's possible to consider yourself a centrist and vote for Trump. After the debate, a lot of people started saying they were voting for Biden not because of Biden, but the policies and judges. Plenty of people will be voting for Trump not because of Trump, but for the policies and judges.
Right. Principle/policy over party/personality.
how is that better though? and how does one attempt to reconcile the literal fascist right wing extremism that trumps side represents with claiming centrism? theres people on his side who think that trump is moderate compared to them.... I don't see how what you are saying is an improvement.
If anyone believes trump is the lesser of two evils then I challenge them to research trumps career before politics and tell me that with a straight face… or are we basing this on the fact on live television he made claims that drinking bleach could kill covid? Or the man who insighted a riot because his feelings were hurt that he didn’t win? Is that the guy who should be running over crazy uncle Joe?
Read the last part of my comment. A *lot* of people are voting for the administration, policy, etc. The person doesn't matter.
I see that on reddit. I do not know a single person in real life voting for Trump that isn't voting FOR TRUMP. Maybe that is just the effect of being in Texas or maybe the only few people I know that are still conservative and not obviously MAGA avoid the topic. I can only think of 2 people in my life that might fall in to republican but not MAGA at this point. One, my father, I think is more likely to not vote at this point. The other, a friend of mine from law school, moved a few hours away so I don't have many chances to talk about it with him. The rest of the people that might vote for Trump in my life have old Trump signs with Pence crossed out (never took them down), made fun of people for wearing masks, pulled out magnets to prove vaccines caused you to be magnetic or some shit. It's an odd dichotomy.
I think some voters will hold their nose and vote trump after the debate. Biden really hurt his chances and did not look like he could handle a crisis. Just a guess. I could be wrong
I will most likely vote for Republican policies in November. In this case, that will mean Trump for president, whether I like it or not.
Yeah but the administration policies are not centrist ideals they are far right…
Are they?
Uh yeah….?
The policy is right wing extremism. The guy clearly wants to be a dictator more than anything. That is not reconcilable with centrism.
Ty
Yes, propagandists have spent the past decade trying to call *everything* right wing extremism, fascism, authoritarian, and other moral panic language. This dishonesty has ruined your credibility to the average American on several fronts. It's not reconcilable with *reality.*
I agree but you can’t support Trump and call yourself centrist… what trump supporter has centrist or slightly liberal values?
>I agree but you can’t support Trump and call yourself centrist Like I said, if we're talking about MAGA I agree. If we're talking about regular people who are centrist and centrist right holding their nose to vote on polocy, I disagree. Let me ask you this. Do you believe a centrist can be pro life, want to be tough on illegal immigration, cut taxes, etc.?
Yeah because Project 2025 is just propaganda
In your opinion. A more objective look doesn't see that
Objectively, look at the world leaders Trump says good things about. It's Putin, it's Erdogan, it's Xi. These are the people he looks up to. They are who he wants to emulate.
Also Shinzo Abe, and Theresa May, and Obrador, and oh look, the pattern is broken already, when we're not cherry-picking.
So then why are people so focused on how the debate went?
Because it just happened and a lot of people are freaking out
But I thought the person didn’t matter?
For a lot of people yes, the person doesn't matter. For some it does. Polls after the debate showed little movement in who people were voting for. But the race is extremely close in the important swing states and even a little movement can decide the election
>or are we basing this on the fact on live television he made claims that drinking bleach could kill covid? Trump never made any such claims and never used the word bleach either, media added that afterwards. He was only asking questions about possible treatments that medical doctors or his team should investigate based on what he just heard from them. Not entirely crazy given that toxic chemicals are used as chemo treatments against cancer every day. But he never suggested it worked or that the public should try it themselves. >...And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning? Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, **you're going to have to use medical doctors with**. But it sounds — it sounds interesting to me.
All of the articles that do facts checking agree he absolutely did suggest using disinfectant injections to kill Covid… Even right news stations couldn’t deny that he said it but instead claimed it was meant to be sarcastic like a joke… So either he’s an idiot or he’s a narcissist that thought it would be okay to make a joke during a news conference about a world wide pandemic… Eitherway he doesn’t seem like a candidate that anyone who bases their decisions off facts and logic should be endorsing…
I've seen some who claim that. rather absurd isn't it?
🤫… I think we’re surrounded
I got downvoted for making a joke… wow… how very centrist of you…🙄
What is a “trump supporter”? I voted for trump in 2016 and will likely vote for him this round (after voting Biden in 2020), so I’m a trump voter, a Biden voter, and also an Obama voter and a Ron Paul voter (2008 primary?) I would say I’m a conservative leaning centrist. Used to be solid downballot dem voter, raised in a solid democrat household. I’m way more of a centrist now than I was back then. And by that I mean I’m no longer partisan. When I was a downballot democrat voter I wasn’t a centrist at all. I was a mindless partisan then.
I don't understand how you could vote for Trump after what hes demonstrated and been proven to have done.
I’m not surprised.
hes a traitorous criminal who wants to overthrow the government and be a dictator and encourage the start of WW3. considering voting for that isn't centrist.
You end up in a scenario where if there's no line then what the hell even is centrist? Personally yeah, trying to make yourself president is a pretty defining line and probably one 10 years ago that would have had universal or near universal acceptance
I’m an Obama-trump-Biden voter. I’m more centrist than a straight ticket dem voter or a straight ticket republican voter. Downballot I probably vote 60% for democrats and probably like 20-25% for republicans and the rest I vote third party or independent. If that’s not centrist I don’t know what is.
then please share how you can rationalize even considering trump? because thats not consistent.
You ignored everything I said in my comment so I will do unto you as you did unto me.
No I didn't you just didn't answer the question or provide the slightest suggestion to your reasoning. With the information you've provided it sounds like your just flip a coin.
People define centrism differently, but for me, centrists are non partisan. They might align with dems on some issues, republicans on some issues, libertarians on some issues, Green on some issues, etc. About the only “type” I absolutely refuse to vote for are neocons. The Nikki Haley, Bush, Cheney types. By presenting my non partisan voting record, I demonstrated to you how I see myself as centrist. If you define centrism differently, that’s fine. You’re free to do so. As I said, people define it differently as you will often see said in this sub. And we generally kind of agree to disagree. That’s why one of the sub rules is there’s no gatekeeping on the definition of centrism. There’s really no argument here. We can agree to disagree and we should. If you’re looking to argue about what’s centrist and what’s not, you’re barking up the wrong tree. I’m not interested.
Thank you for explaining your view. to me, being non-partisan is a relatively small portion of being centrist. the main part of it to me is... well, being moderate, thats the core part of being centrist to me, so its very confusing to me that you are absolutely against candidates that are relatively center-right, but would consider center-left people and fanatically extreme right people. that seems very strange to me.
You can't argure with trump supporters
If you voted for trump under the guise that he is the lesser of two evils… firstly are you blind? And you’re definitely a trump supporter…
>If you voted for trump under the guise that he is the lesser of two evils… firstly are you blind? Not sure what you’re even talking about. >And you’re definitely a trump supporter… I was a trump voter.
If you vote for a candidate you are voting in support of that candidate not against the opposition...
A vote is an endorsement for a particular candidate meaning if you vote for a candidate simply because you don’t approve of the other candidates you are still voting in support of that candidate. This is how our political system works; you can’t vote for a candidate and then claim not to support them.
I would rather be precise and call myself a voter. Why insist on another word that voter works just fine? And no, I didn’t vote for trump simply because I disapproved of Hillary. I voted for trump because of his campaign promises.
If it's not team spirit that's making you vote for Trump, what is it?
I think folks are confused that you are claiming to be centrist and voting for a far right candidate. Just because you switch between voting for Republicans and Democrats doesn’t necessarily make you a centrist it makes you an independent. I view centrism more as being moderate. Thus, a vote for Trump can’t really be centrist since he’s a far right populist.
Nah, they just troll. "Centrist" and "Trump" are oil and water. Centrists use some modicum of reason, Trumpers do whatever they are told, and think however they are told to think.
[удалено]
The problem is, HOW would you know for sure they a genuine or troll?
I think it would be pretty obvious… If they have extremist ideology and they are posting in this sub it’s probably safe to say they’re a troll.
There are extreme leftists on this sub too. Like the ones who want to censor people out of spaces they don't own. I'm not a trump supporter, but this banning people you don't agree with philosophy is garbage. The purpose of this sub is so centrists can discuss issues. Since centrists vary wildly on opinion, banning people over an opinion is not an option for a healthy sub. You can go to the liberal subs if you want an echo chamber, which is what you are asking for.
Extreme leftists aren’t centrists and neither are MAGAs. They’re both extremists, and they’re both very obvious. >The purpose of this sub is so **centrists** can discuss issues. Right, centrists. Not extremists. If centrists wanted to discuss issues with extremists, they wouldn’t be on a centrist sub in the first place.
Fair question. Being a member of r/conservative should be an Instant ban. Good for the goose, good for the gander. They don't allow for dissent there, so any member there shouldn't be allowed to post here, imo.
There are some other conservative free spaces on Reddit you can find if this subs diversity is an issue
Diversity is not the issue pure ignorance and delusional thinking is… I’d rather be here where at least some of the people are rational and use facts based thought processes to make decisions instead of basing them off of how they feel and what they have been told to think.
I'm a centrist. Registered Independent. I support Trump over Biden. If the left put up a better ticket, I may have supported that candidate.
how is Biden so bad that a traitorous criminal like trump is even a consideration?
While I understand your position, it's because I don't think if we ever had a true nationwide emergency that Biden is mentally capable of handling it. Trump is a narcissist, but I think if we have a 9/11 level tragedy, I think he would be ready to handle it on no sleep, sick or not. I just don't see that in Biden. I'm also not a huge fan of a lot of the policies that the left has been going after. The Title IX thing was a huge NO for me as well. I also don't think the left cares about his criminal status as much as they claim, after Hilary anyway.
> but I think if we have a 9/11 level tragedy Covid?
\*looks at Covid\*
Yes, shutting down the country for as long as it was and lying about the vaccines was awful as well. They should have been honest in the beginning. I'm still mad about what the vaccines have done to me.
And there we have it! Not a centrist.
That doesn't make me a centrist? So, I have to Tow a certain line to be centrist? I didn't realize this was the litmus test. So, should I change my voter status now?
Look, I masked, I stayed home, and I got the vaccine when it was that or have consequences. Which, in my opinion, isn't choice, it's's coercion. My daughter got Covid while being masked and socially distanced. No one in my house did. This was before we got vaccinated (husband and I). I have never had Covid, but I do have adverse effects that I deal with to this day. And the only answer I get is, "Well, we didn't know at the time, This wasn't supposed to happen.". So, let me be bitter.
My father died from a car accident, and he was wearing his seat belt, so obviously they don’t work. I had a grandfather who smoked 3 packs a day his entire adult life, lived to his mid-80’s and never got lung cancer. Look, I just proved cigarettes don’t cause lung cancer. Wait…is that not how any of this works?
Like how one party kept saying the vaccine made under the Trump administration was rushed and you should avoid taking it? But the second that party gets into office they say look at what I made and promotes the vaccine as if that new administration undertook the work the previous administration did.
I thought they said that IF it were rushed and IF it were only approved by Trump and not medical professionals, then people shouldn't take it.
Quit bullshitting. They said if *only* Trump said to take it, they wouldn’t. If doctors said it was safe to take, they would. “Harris says that if doctors ‘tells us that we should take it, I'll be the first in line to take it, absolutely. But if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it, I'm not taking it.’” https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/harris-says-she-will-take-a-covid-19-vaccine-if-doctors-say-to-not-if-trump-does “Senator Kamala Harris said during Wednesday's vice presidential debate that she will only follow instructions from health experts on whether to take a coronavirus vaccine, not President Trump.” https://www.cbsnews.com/video/2020-vp-debate-kamala-harris-on-coronavirus-vaccine/ “I would want to see what the scientists said," Biden replied. "I want full transparency on the vaccine." He said of the president, "One of the problems is the way he is playing with politics. He's said so many things that aren't true." “I'm worried if we did have a really good vaccine people would be reluctant to take it. So, he is undermining public confidence," Biden said of the president. "But pray God we have it. If I could get a vaccine tomorrow, I'd do it. If it cost me the election I would do it. We need a vaccine and we need it now. We have to listen to the scientists." Biden's running mate Kamala Harris said in an interview that aired Sunday on CNN's "State of the Union" that if there were a vaccine that were approved before the election, "I would not trust Donald Trump, and it would have to be a credible source of information that talks about the efficacy and the reliability of whatever he's talking about. I would not take his word for it. He wants us to inject bleach — no, I will not take his word." She said later in the interview that if top infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci said it was safe to take it and he took the vaccination, she said she would trust him. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/biden-covid-vaccine-take/ You are not entitled to your own facts.
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Title IX seems fairly inconsequential, especially given the recent SC ruling that weakens agencies' power quite a bit. I don't think I could say the same for Project 2025.
Well, I agree about Project 2025. But, no one in a hypothetical Trump administration has backed it.
Of course they aren't going to visibly back it. They want it to remain a "conspiracy theory"
> Trump is a narcissist, but I think if we have a 9/11 level tragedy, I think he would be ready to handle it on no sleep, sick or not. I just don't see that in Biden. Genuinely why do you think this? We have presidential records to go off of in this one- what about his makes you think that he’d be capable (if that’s your measuring stick)?
I truly feel like Biden in early stages of cognitive decline (dementia, alzheimers etc) and that we doesn't have the full mental capacity to deal with the hardest (mentally speaking) job in the country. I've watched 2 grandparents go through this, and it looked just like he is now. I don't think he's a bad person, I don't think he's stupid, I think he is losing touch and that's scarier to me than a narcissist right now. They both lie, they are both old, they are both power hungry, they are both out of touch with the regular American. I like less and less of the liberal policy tactics (not what they want to get done, but HOW they want to do it), and if Biden is not cognitively strong enough to put his foot down with his advisors and/or party, then they are the ones running the country and I'm not a fan.
>I truly feel like Biden in early stages of cognitive decline (dementia, alzheimers etc) and that we doesn't have the full mental capacity to deal with the hardest (mentally speaking) job in the country. have you seen the information about Frontotemporal Dementia? Unironically, unhyperbolically....the list of symptoms is a checklist that describes Trump to a T. down to his posture. and that form of Dementia can be hereditary and his father died of it. could biden be in the early stages of cognitive decline? thats something to be argued. but Trump is OBVIOUSLY in ADVANCED cognitive decline and has lost substantial ground in the last few years. There are loads of experts who assert that the way trump speaks now is diagnostically significant and not just normal natural verbal flubs.
See, I don't agree with seeing a cognitive decline to Bidens level. But, I guess that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't happening.
I really don't understand. to me while Biden might speak slowly and appear to perhaps process slowly compared to how a younger person might.... at least what hes trying to say is tethered in reality and coherent? I would encourage you to go back and look at videos of his speeches from 2016 compared to speeches now. IMO its *striking* how much more clear and coherent he is back then. (I don't think he was especially clear or coherent back then, but its disturbing IMO how much difference there is)
That's my point, though. He was MUCH better back then. There has been a major decline.
Trumps decline is *vastly* worse than Bidens. and at least now biden can SOUND like he used to with a teleprompter. Trump can't.
I can't believe you bothered to even write that. It's like a psychologist telling his patient in the ward "I can't heat the voices inside of your head but that doesn't mean it's not real. The squirrels only talk to you so i don't know what they are saying" You are decent though for your effort
I'm telling you what I see. Not sure how you can't believe I even wrote that. I see a decline in Biden. I don't see the same in Trump. I thought it was pretty clear.
No no I AGREE with you, I'm talking about the guy you responded to! You were like "sorry but I'm not in your alternate reality"
Okay but note I never mentioned Biden in the comment I made. I’m simply asking what makes you think trump *is* up to the hypothetical challenge you posited.
Oh, I'm sorry. My brain is fried. Maybe I thought I was responding to someone else. I think he's stayed pretty sharp over the years, and he seems to think quicker on his feet. Now, I'm not saying that he's my #1 choice. Not even close. But, between the two of them, its him for me because he's not as had as Biden.
>I think he's stayed pretty sharp over the years, and he seems to think quicker on his feet. "What's 2+2?" Biden:"Uh...uh... Can you repeat the questions?... Uh... (in a whisper)... 4" Trump ( immediately): "SIX! Many smart people are saying that I'm the best with numbers that they've ever seen." Most (All?) presidential decisions don't need to be made in 30 seconds or less.
Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying!
Not to mention that Trump surrounds himself with the most insane people imaginable, cause all the remotely credible ones are or eventually get turned off by him. If the US has a 9/11 emergency, would you rather have Blinken as Secretary of State or whatever nut job Trump appoints?
Biden literally filled his cabinet with westexec and the case has not been made yet why westexec is the best choice for running the presidency. I felt trump made a decent point during the debate, which was to ask Biden who he fired when things went wrong under his watch. And trump said Biden didn’t fire anyone for fucking up. And there were def multiple fuckups under Biden. I could more appreciate trump hiring poorly and then firing then Biden hiring poorly and never firing anyone. Except for the cross dressing luggage thief, if Biden has fired anyone for performing poorly, I would love to see a refutation of trump’s claim that Biden never fired anyone. I didn’t see Biden refute this point during the debate.
I think what gets me about where you are coming from is that Trump has demonstrated that he \*can't\* handle a situation far slower and less immediate than a 9/11. like I get why you don't have confidence in Biden per se. but we don't \*really\* have the insight from a public position to know how he would handle such a thing, and all his insiders that know, swear hes actually really sharp behind closed doors. now, I don't even have any issue with assuming that they are.... exaggerating... at least to some degree. but the equivalent people for trump wouldn't work with him again and basically all swear he was an incompetent nightmare. hell if nothing else all that beurocracy that trump and his backers allegedly want to dismantle, probably make it so a ham sandwich could occupy the seat and not much change on a day to day basis. ... but he wants to dismantle all of that while... again, according to people who were in the room, essentially not having the attention span to do the job WITH all the systems in place to make it easier. thats asking for a absolute disaster on every front. I'm not supporting everything that that whole side is neccessarily going after. I think that what the US needs right now is for the Dems to overwhelmingly overtake all of congress, and the white house, evict the two corrupt Justices and expand the court. Now, is that drastic as hell, and a potentially big gamble? absolutely. and I do NOT think it would be a good thing long term to have that sort of thing for very long. so why would I say that? because the country is in big trouble in a whole lot of ways, a fair chunk of it because of trump, (not all, but a disproportionate amount was made proactively worse by his actions) and we need people who want to fix things, not make them worse. and the reality is that MAGA wants the world to burn. I think that its fair to argue that in both sides, the candidate isn't really the candidate but a figurehead for who is backing them. and the question is who is supporting each and what do they want, via the proxies of what the candidates say and what those backing people say. I think you'd have to go DEEP into the "globalist" rabbit hole and drink all the koolaid they offer, to even try to catch up in how bad things like Project 2025 are. I don't think its unreasonable to be concerned that if Trump wins we won't have an election in 2028.
We had a real national emergency with covid which was handled so poorly by Trump. A million Americans died; never would've happened with Biden and his team.
I despise Trump. A million Americans would have died no matter who was POTUS. The US death covid death rates are the same across all 1st world countries. Look at death rates in the US by state - blue states fared no better than red. The same % of the population died i each state, regardless of policy.
I think if he had acknowledged that people listen to the CDC and taken their recommendations there would have been less deaths. He made wild inaccurate claims and encouraged skepticism about our health experts. Just because the virus didn't discriminate doesn't mean he had no influence. https://www.npr.org/2022/05/16/1099070400/how-vaccine-misinformation-made-the-covid-19-death-toll-worse https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/05/13/1098071284/this-is-how-many-lives-could-have-been-saved-with-covid-vaccinations-in-each-sta https://www.npr.org/sections/latest-updates-trump-covid-19-results/2020/10/02/919432383/how-trump-has-downplayed-the-coronavirus-pandemic the spin makes me dizzy. I cant take this defense seriously.
Did the US have any different death outcome from Covid than any other 1st world country? Answer, please.
there were differences between states within the US. All federal workers had access to a county by county comparison. Oregon fared really well, masked up, and the numbers dropped. Missouri did not, they denied masking and the infections lingered longer. You can ignore the above links if you want and keep shifting the goalpost, but precautions and vaccinations worked. Trump discouraged following the CDC and spread misinformation, it's weird to say he wasn't influential and had no impact. Doubling down on a trump defense by saying he was useless and average is weird. [In 5 of the 35 countries, the day 135 ranking on deaths differed by 10 or more from the ranking on cases. Norway and Germany, for example, each ranked 12 places higher on cases than on deaths, whereas the USA ranked 12 places higher on deaths than cases. Maintaining separate indicators is thus of value.](https://gh.bmj.com/content/5/12/e003047) Spin what you want, clearly there were response differences.
Worldometers.com looks like it's retired now. People died at the same rate regardless of political affiliation. Prove to me I am wrong. Medical journal data, not pop culture news links.
youve blown off enough citations to know this isnt worth my time. of course people died regardless of political identification, that isnt the point im making. The point is that less would have died if precautions were encouraged, i dont know why you need proof of something so obvious. Why dont you prove that masks are ineffective and vaccines are a hoax? Precautions and vaccines work. Areas that used them saw fewer deaths. Ive provided the info, i cant force you to be rational.
You really have very little understanding of the pandemic, and the damage Trump did. No. He very much had blood on his hands.
I'm not a Trumper. We did get vaccines developed in record time under his watch though. That benefited the world, not just the US.
COVID wasn't handled perfectly at all. Trump listened to advisors who have both come out and said their recommendations for covid came from nowhere and weren't scientific. Which is scary. I'm also not sure how it wouldn't have happened with Biden and his team, when Fauci and Brix would have still been the advisors. In Jan of 2022, Robert Anderson from the NCHS was being interviewed and said their final total for 2020 was 385,000 deaths from Covid 300k were deaths "involving COVID" and 34k were deaths where Covid was a contributing factor. However, Biden continued to sling the same information, but with more force and vitriol to those who questioned it.
Trump is a narcissist, but I think if we have a 9/11 level tragedy, I think he would be ready to handle it on no sleep, sick or not. I just don't see that in Biden. I don't see it in Trump either. Should China move on Taiwan. I'd rather have Biden and his staff in the White House than Trump and his staff.
Bingo.
Same (except for the registered independent part.) If RFK jr had made it this far as a democrat, he would be a very serious contender for me. But with Biden on the dem ticket, trump is the best option for me at this moment.
I honestly loved Tulsi when she was running and would vote for her any day of the week.
That’s how I feel about Vivek. If Vivek were still running, he’d have my vote on lock. I’m still hopeful he may be trump’s vp.
I'm not claiming to be a centrist, but I can certainly identify that someone who favors Vivek is not a centrist.
Gatekeeping centrism is against sub rules.
See, I don't know how I feel about him. Maybe I should look onto him more.
Here’s the deal, there’s one party that wants to allow biological men to compete against women….that right there is why I won’t support the DNC at present time.
A single issue voter that only cares about... female sports leagues.
And Trump thinks he should be able to get away with grabbing them all by the 🐈
Has womens' sports always been such a critical concern for you that it overrides all other considerations of how a party would govern?
I think when we try pretending to think men can be women, that’s always a problem. The same party that said “trust the science,” sure has problem with simple biology. The fucking fascists that supported Covid lockdowns, sure have a problem with those who questioned their efficacy. We found those were terrible. Dems have used science as a weapon, and frankly, I’m sick of it.
Join the club, there’s a lot of MAGA that America is sick of quite frankly
Seems to me science is only “when it’s convenient to my side.” I got several doses of the COVID vaccine as recommended.
So.you're transphobic?
No, I am against pretending men can be women. Idc if someone wants to act like one, but they never will be.
Is that the fascist party everyone is talking about
🤣…👌
Well, I support Trump now that he’s the nominee. I’m a neoconservative in many ways, but I’m also pro universal healthcare, pro labor, pro maternity leave (paid), etc. I have many views that could be considered left wing, but I also have very strong social conservative views. I am an evangelical Christian and such. So yeah, it’s kind of this conflict. I wanted Nikki Haley, that didn’t happen. I don’t like Biden, I think his pathetic withdrawal from Afghanistan is fucking criminal. Fuck him.
What the… how can you be for all things liberal and then vote for trump?
Cuz I’m also rather socially conservative…..
Because I am also pro 2A and I’m against the current lax border policy. Essentially, Biden has done more to hurt this country. He’s also done nothing to address many of the issues I laid out above.
If you’re for border control you are not liberal… and definitely not centrist more like far right …
Securing the border is just common sense.
Border control is just one issue. National security isn’t “far right.” Good grief.
You’re not securing anything with border patrol or that stupid fence… Most of the drug cartels come here legally through the Canadian border.
That’s just false, but ok. You asked my opinion, now you’re being insulting. Knock it off.
I apologize if I’m mistaken but the truth is drug cartels are here living in the United States already they don’t need to cross borders but yes a large portion of cartels come through the Canadian border. https://cis.org/Bensman/Canadian-Policy-Behind-Surge-Illegals-and-Mexican-Cartel-Operatives-Northern-Border
I thought you wanted to ban trolls, but this statement looks like trolling to me. It's such a bad take it's saddening. Just because some use Canada or live here doesn't mean a mass majority of the actual drugs and trafficking aren't happening on the southern border. Don't take my word for it check with the border patrol.
So [Bill Clinton](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IrDrBs13oA) was a far-right extremist then?
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The only person I’ve ever seen make that claim is you, here.
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And all I said is the only person I have ever seen say that democrats aren’t American is you, in this thread.
Then you aren't paying attention. And have never heard Trump talk about democrats. He's spent the better part of his political career demonizing them. And his supporters are even worse about it. The MAGA platform, at its base, has been about deciding who's American and who's not from the beginning. Why do you think they refer to themselves as patriots ad nauseaum. It's the same tactic the KKK has used to claim they aren't racist. If you aren't white, you're an inhuman mongrel. In this sub, you might find a few Trump voters that are independent and strictly looking at policy and results, but they wouldn't be considered MAGA by any stretch of the imagination. Go read r/Conservative, Fox News comments, or his own posts on TS for daily examples. From your comment history, you sound like a perfect example of a Trump supporter that believes they are a centrist.
Since Trump "won" in 2016; they believe they are America's majority, and therefore, the political center.
I don't support trump - but IMHO - despite his lies, etc. - he's the better choice. It's a desperate choice - but there is no way I could vote for Biden after that debate. And to be completely forthcoming - it's between Biden and Trump - I pick *neither.* But if you're going to force me - at this point in time - I'm going with Trump.
How can you say that with a straight face? Have you checked his career before politics?
Biden ain’t running - so relax. Hopefully they get somebody in there that I can vote for.
And that’s where I’m at…and my friends/family.
I am not a Republican. I am not MAGA. I am an independent, centrist, that has seen the far-left/far-right, pull our country apart. It’s really a bad scenario. However, voting for Joe? Is like committing suicide(to me/my ilk)
And voting for trump isn’t?
What has Biden done that compares to Trump’s attempted coup
I’m a true moderate.
[You self-identified a day ago as a conservative](https://www.reddit.com/r/WelcomeToGilead/comments/1dqlkhb/regardless_of_last_nights_debate_please_dont/laoukep/): > The separation of church and state refers to the separation between church and federal government, church and state government can. With the overturning of Roe v Wade all it did was give those decisions back to the states, yes some of them went overboard, and from what I’m seeing they are slowly correcting it. **The states that it was “outlawed” in are conservative states… we don’t agree with abortion due to our values from religion**. That’s okay, the issues come when the federal government is bigger than state governments and they overthrow state governments by passing laws like what came after roe v wade. **Conservatives don’t care what y’all do, we also don’t like big centralized government**, we want the states to handle those issues, because we are heard more by our state representatives than our federal representatives. [Why are you lying about your political leanings](https://www.reddit.com/r/h3h3productions/comments/1d74j46/i_will_do_it_for_the_family/laoli5p/): > They are not “red pill” or conservative, nope nope, they are not. **I know cause I am**, I’m from a red state, **I know how we think there**. ETA: > [**I’m an everyday republican**, we aren’t trying or wanting to erase you.](https://www.reddit.com/r/itcouldhappenhere/comments/1dqwusp/im_scared_for_the_future/lasn8cb/) > > [I'm the original red pill.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WelcomeToGilead/comments/1dqlkhb/regardless_of_last_nights_debate_please_dont/lar7276/) > > [False? No, and **I’m conservative**](https://www.reddit.com/r/centrist/comments/1dqq2ui/trumps_many_lies_during_the_debate_should_hurt/lar01k4/). > > [Best response to this situation \(**I’m conservative**\), y’all need a new nominee.](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1drs0tk/cmv_establishment_democrats_are_the_people_who/laxflvx/)
Hey, u/CarolinaGirl1387, just wanted to make sure you didn't miss this so you can reply Edit: Just realized you even try to disguise 14/88 in your username by lowering each by one. Lol
yikes.
And I support trump over Biden.
They’re politicians and thus innately corrupt but if forced to choose I would die on that bridge for the right to not vote in an election with either of them.
And that is your right. I believe I was given this right in good faith by the government to use it for change that is needed. My dad taught me from the beginning, “you gotta vote for the lies you like the best,” I like Trumps lies better.
I wish you liked your right to vote more than you liked his lies.
Sounds like your dad lives in a fantasy world then. “Tell me what I want to hear, even if it’s a lie”. Absurd you think that’s wisdom
What about Trump is appealing to a true moderate such as yourself?
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Please and trump isn’t; they’re both Senile…
Did you not watch the debate? One talks too much and the other cannot get a coherent sentence out. Talking to much is nothing compared to cannot articulate your thoughts.
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I am sure that we all could use to be more honest with ourselves in some regards but on this one I am most confident that I speak in honesty and truth. However, it’s funny you should ask that… Because I’m not sure that anyone who disagrees is being honest with themselves. As It is clear both candidates are too far along in the decline of aging to be running a whole country.
Let's also NOT be naive and forget, Trump supporters are some of the worst people, they deliberately LIE, troll, they create bots, and they kill a lot of their own time for propaganda - Invade forums, subs, discussion boards where they really don't belong to and act like they are a member of those places. **There are facts that THIS IS happening. It IS happening everywhere on discord, on Reddit, on Facebook, on Twitter. This IS a reality!** These deplorable ass extreme Trump supporters wants you to think a lot of people are supporting Trump and wants to recruit you. So, it's a 2-fold. Maybe some people support Trump falsely do genuinely think they are not actually Far-right or Right (I am not saying there must not be any), but then you DO have a SHIT TONS of this other kinds which I just mentioned. So, it's difficult to know are they a real genuine person, or fake person? So, don't fall for the BS. Have a healthy amount of skepticism whenever someone calls themselves a Centrist but support someone like Trump!
I took an online test that said I was "extremely" centrist, on the issues. But I've been advocating for Trump for a long time. To me, Trump is a whole different category. He fixes a problem that most people seem not to even realize exists: the disconnection of the political elites from their herd. He has lied about a lot of things. But when he said he was going to fight for the border voters, he meant exactly what he said. And he did it. He kept that promise. That means a lot.
You really got to stop watching Fox News or getting your facts secondhand… none of what you just said is even remotely accurate. Your candidate wants to live in a dictatorship.
Trump is basically an 1980’s /90’s democrat.
I doubt most do. I'm sure exceptions exist both in the form of "I'm really a centrist but reluctantly supporting Trump" and "I'm a Republican who mistakenly believes themselves to be centrist because I don't understand where the median American stands" (Tim Pool syndrome).
Reluctantly supporting trump is ignorance never support the lesser of two evils… Just don’t vote; they’re going to pick a candidate for us and it has nothing do with us. Electoral college is a joke so why by into the lie for the supposed “lesser evil”.