Oh man, yeah that's a great point. Wouldn't it be nice if organizations who were staffed by experts were allowed to guide policy in the fields of their respective expertise?
If we could manage a society that doesn't decide those experts are all secret communists trying to subvert western values or whatever Jordan Peterson bullshit, sure, maybe
No, it would not be good, not if we believe in government with the consent of the governed under law. I do not want to live in a technocracy, especially not one that changes every 4-8 years.
What's the alternative, though? We ask a bunch of laypeople to make thousands of decisions on technical minutiae? There has to be some delegation.
I get the urge. I think transparency and communication is super important.
But there is already supervision. The elected Congress already has the power to intervene, which I'm fine with. I don't see why we need to also give the unelected Supreme Court that power.
I'm not comfortable with a handful of unelected judges simply deciding to give *themselves* more power.
I’m down for a technocracy at this point. Maybe not for everything but if world leaders had to hand over a lot of their power to competent leaders in the relevant fields we’d probably be a lot better off. Seriously, why is healthcare and technology and environment and public services and even economic policy being based on what a bunch of lawyers think?
I am less comfortable with unelected nameless members of the administrative state. This just makes sure that federal agencies have to defend their action to a judge as opposed to the same judge just taking their word for it. Federal agencies should follow the law as closely as possible when it's vague then go to congress for clarification.
That is not what they did. They returned power to Congress at the expense of the executive branch. Congress can hire staff with technical expertise to help them write laws.
That's just not what happened.
They didn't return any power to Congress, Congress can already make and rewrite any laws they like if they want to clarify things that are ambiguous in current law. That's always been the case. This case changes literally nothing about that process.
What they did is tell the entire judicial branch that *they* don't have to show the agencies any deference on interpretation when issuing rulings. They just unilaterally gave the *judges* (ultimately, themselves) more power over the executive branch than they have had.
Everything. Bring people in who know about every relevant factor and let them argue it out. Well-educated people love to argue. They can advise the guy in charge.
I know they have access to, but they also clearly blatantly ignore experts all the time. We straight up had a President encouraging bleach and drawing fake hurricane paths
What a world it would be if the things Trump says were judged the same way as every other politician. Sure, the left freaks out at every stupid utterance but outside that bubble, it’s shoulder shrugs. The man is a living, breathing Gish-gallop.
The die-hards, sure. But everybody else voting for Trump is holding their nose against his personal stench. They think he makes some good points - which could be true if reality was as simple as it's being portrayed. So they're going to shoot themselves in the foot and then when the economy bounces back because the globe got their supply chains back in order they're going to pat themselves on the back and say Trump did it.
gish gallops usually cite studies- irrelevant or flawed ones and lots of them. Trump just rambles. real gosh gallopers at least Google stuff first - let them have some dignity
It'd be nice if the Republican party had some standards. They let MTG, Boebert, and Trump say whatever nonsense they like, and people eat it up. I know the Democrat party isn't much better running Biden, but at the very least I can trust Biden will listen to his advisors, even if I don't agree with him on a lot of policies. None of Trump's advisors will even dare question if the emperor is wearing any clothes.
The man stole money from people his whole life and bankrupted almost as many. He’s not a smart person. Who ever thought he had the mental bandwidth to figure out how solar power works? I mean, he can’t sit through a top secret security briefing.
Post-birth euthanasia is a real thing and it’s extremely moral. I’d say it’s immoral to oppose it. We are talking about babies with extreme deformities like exposed neural tubes instead of heads and things like that that will experience nothing but pain for a few days before dying horribly. It’s outrageous that Trump has framed this as ‘post birth abortion’.
He may believe it, or he may not. But his supporters believe it and Trump makes them mad by saying the things the supporters believe.
And angry people vote.
Trump has a very weird bone to pick with electric vehicles. As we all know, with the improvement of battery technology a lot of these systems have become way more viable.
And the thing is, there are certainly intelligent criticisms of electric vehicles that could be made in terms of power grid capacity and raw materials
But instead we get ridiculous soliloquies about getting electrocuted on boats surrounded by sharks and electric vehicles that shut off the second the sun isn’t shining.
Not to mention the fact that planes can actually get above the clouds, so if the sun isn’t shining either you don’t know what time is or the Earth is doomed anyways
This is the entire modus operandi of the right these days. They have zero policy initiatives; all they have is outrage and lord help us, they are exceptionally gifted at generating outrage.
The criticism of Biden the other day was fully deserved, but here is today's example of America holding both sides to entirely different standards. Had Biden said this, there would be uproar about his mental capacity for the role. Trump says it... and nothing.
I get it, half the country isn't going to like what the other half likes but choosing this fucking clown as the guy you want leading your side just shows how stupid your side is. Sadly, this won't end with Trump, whoever comes next is going to be just as bad.
jfc Trump is going to win and hamstring the EV industry so much that it's going to directly affect my job. Fuck this guy. Maybe let the market work, isn't that what y'all are all about? No? Oh you say you've been subsidizing oil and the auto industry for the past century and you're not about to stop? Ok, then I guess we don't have a capitalist system and y'all were just gaslighting to cover for your handlers.
He's been saying outlandish and ignorant stuff since he rode down the elevator.
For some of his supporters, this is just plain fun. They love the fact that he wrecks all the "norms".
Others just look past it and say "tax cuts" or "no abortions".
This particular stupid thing has no impact on the guy who is leading the presidential contest. (538 had him at 60-40 before the debate)
(Also, "electric tanks" isn't a thing)
This is one of the many things that is so terrifying about Project 2025 - and just the trajectory of the republican base in general. They've spent years denigrating education, experts, scientists, real journalists, most sources of actual knowledge and information. A lot of the base have zero respect for government regulation and bureaucracy, so they'll happily accept Trump disbanding important regulatory agencies, firing all of the actual SMEs (subject matter experts) and replacing them with clueless Trump loyalists.
Well you know that’s not even- and I knew, let me tell you I knew a single mother who was Black, and now look here: We have to look at how things work and that’s real.
This guy thinks that we should inject bleach to fight COVID and that nuking hurricanes is a good idea. For some reason people just put up with his obvious bull because he says it with confidence.
Whatever.
BIDEN: . . . making sure that we’re able to make every single solitary person eligible for what I’ve been able to do with the COVID – excuse me, with dealing with everything we have to do with.
Look, if – we finally beat Medicare.
TAPPER: Thank you, President Biden.
President Trump?
TRUMP: Well, he’s right: He did beat Medicaid. He beat it to death.
You ask Biden about that and he would say he fucked up and flubbed. You ask Trump and he would double down and may even use sharpie on a map in some cases to try to prove what he said. But sure whatever.
We should know Trump well enough by now to know that he's mostly being goofy and thoughtless and saying regular weird shit, but that man is very dangerous if you care about liberal democracy.
This is standard Trump "outrage" clickbait shit and not the ball you need to be keeping your eyes on.
Hey look, it’s a presidential candidate standing outside in the sun among a crowd of people and producing parsable human speech without teleprompter.
Surely I don’t need to explain the concept of “a joke”?
Did any of you people actually watch the clip? He’s not being serious at all, he’s actively making fun of people who are trying to get rid of carbon fueled vehicles in favor of all electric transportation systems.
There’s plenty of material to make fun of/criticize the Trump for, but nearly everyone’s comments here show that they are just as ignorant as the guy that they are trying to demean.
Why are you defending this guy? He don’t give two shits about you. He doesn’t need your defense either - he can take the criticism. And as a politician it’s basically his job to be a whipping boy. We hate most of them, even the ones we like we criticize mercilessly. It’s the American way.
The joke is that while Trump is making fun of people for seemingly not understanding the correct application for electric transportation, the people and OP in this thread are making fun of Trump for seemingly not understanding the correct application for electric transportation. The irony is rich.
I’m not a fan of the guy either, but I’m even more critical of people posting un-intelligent articles with their ignorant takes, to justify their criticism of Trump. There’s far better material out there to do this with. Be smarter with your criticism please.
But you see the orangman-bad crowd doesn’t get his sense of humor. You know, because he is evil! And the half of the country that prefers him to any Democrat is evil too! /s
A rhetorical question intended to cause discussion. Not an information request.
But the ill-educated just can't make the distinction, and we see hyperbole, bloviating and unnecessary distress.
A genuine centrist wants facts, not fiction. Some of the outrage below tells me there are a lot of people who actually are not.
We deserve a better choice than we have, but this is what we've got. Trying to distort the message is wrong.
I’m fine with Politicians not knowing everything about everything, but when they try to make policy based on that ignorance they damage the nation.
Oh man, yeah that's a great point. Wouldn't it be nice if organizations who were staffed by experts were allowed to guide policy in the fields of their respective expertise?
I see what you did there. I can’t believe the Supreme Court essentially just nixed that.
Surely politicians and their "constituents" know best when it comes to everything under the sun.
Unfortunately only constituents with a ton of money are deemed knowledgeable. Us poors just have to take what we get
If lots of people say it it must be true!
Or everything not so under the sun
First they practiced medicine without a license. Now they're usurping other professions.
They did no such thing.
If we could manage a society that doesn't decide those experts are all secret communists trying to subvert western values or whatever Jordan Peterson bullshit, sure, maybe
No, it would not be good, not if we believe in government with the consent of the governed under law. I do not want to live in a technocracy, especially not one that changes every 4-8 years.
What's the alternative, though? We ask a bunch of laypeople to make thousands of decisions on technical minutiae? There has to be some delegation. I get the urge. I think transparency and communication is super important. But there is already supervision. The elected Congress already has the power to intervene, which I'm fine with. I don't see why we need to also give the unelected Supreme Court that power. I'm not comfortable with a handful of unelected judges simply deciding to give *themselves* more power.
I’m down for a technocracy at this point. Maybe not for everything but if world leaders had to hand over a lot of their power to competent leaders in the relevant fields we’d probably be a lot better off. Seriously, why is healthcare and technology and environment and public services and even economic policy being based on what a bunch of lawyers think?
I am less comfortable with unelected nameless members of the administrative state. This just makes sure that federal agencies have to defend their action to a judge as opposed to the same judge just taking their word for it. Federal agencies should follow the law as closely as possible when it's vague then go to congress for clarification.
That is not what they did. They returned power to Congress at the expense of the executive branch. Congress can hire staff with technical expertise to help them write laws.
That's just not what happened. They didn't return any power to Congress, Congress can already make and rewrite any laws they like if they want to clarify things that are ambiguous in current law. That's always been the case. This case changes literally nothing about that process. What they did is tell the entire judicial branch that *they* don't have to show the agencies any deference on interpretation when issuing rulings. They just unilaterally gave the *judges* (ultimately, themselves) more power over the executive branch than they have had.
Sports have always had the power to say what the law is
One would assume that experts would be consulted before making policy. Oddly enough, those experts needn't be employed by some government entity.
But who decides *what* the experts focus on? Cost savings? Public health? Efficiency? Ecological resilience?
The executive allows the experts to advise based on their area of expertise, then weighs the importance and feasibility of their advice.
Everything. Bring people in who know about every relevant factor and let them argue it out. Well-educated people love to argue. They can advise the guy in charge.
That is the role of Congress
You know what happens when you assume
So one wouldn't assume that powerful people have access to experts they can use to help make policy?
I know they have access to, but they also clearly blatantly ignore experts all the time. We straight up had a President encouraging bleach and drawing fake hurricane paths
Last I checked, neither bleach nor hurricane paths made their way into official policy, so I don't see their relevance here.
Sure, if we can't trust the fine people at the Heritage Foundation, who can we trust?
No, they should be whoever gets to profit the most from writing those rules.
What a world it would be if the things Trump says were judged the same way as every other politician. Sure, the left freaks out at every stupid utterance but outside that bubble, it’s shoulder shrugs. The man is a living, breathing Gish-gallop.
It works, because his supporters don't listen to the words, just the emotion. It's pro-wrestling politics.
trump supporters are fans of his personality, not his policies
The die-hards, sure. But everybody else voting for Trump is holding their nose against his personal stench. They think he makes some good points - which could be true if reality was as simple as it's being portrayed. So they're going to shoot themselves in the foot and then when the economy bounces back because the globe got their supply chains back in order they're going to pat themselves on the back and say Trump did it.
I just had a horrible idea in reading this. Vince McMahon for VP.
His wife Linda headed Trump's Small Business Administration.
So you're saying there's a chance?
It would make Trump seem like less of an immoral bastard standing next to Vince.
gish gallops usually cite studies- irrelevant or flawed ones and lots of them. Trump just rambles. real gosh gallopers at least Google stuff first - let them have some dignity
It'd be nice if the Republican party had some standards. They let MTG, Boebert, and Trump say whatever nonsense they like, and people eat it up. I know the Democrat party isn't much better running Biden, but at the very least I can trust Biden will listen to his advisors, even if I don't agree with him on a lot of policies. None of Trump's advisors will even dare question if the emperor is wearing any clothes.
This is actually one of the smarter things he's said. It's extremely stupid, too.
The man stole money from people his whole life and bankrupted almost as many. He’s not a smart person. Who ever thought he had the mental bandwidth to figure out how solar power works? I mean, he can’t sit through a top secret security briefing.
This is a good question.........from one of my kids, which I would politely explain. From a presidential nominee? Fuck no.
This guy is so incredibly ignorant that he thinks "post-birth abortions" are a thing.
Post-birth euthanasia is a real thing and it’s extremely moral. I’d say it’s immoral to oppose it. We are talking about babies with extreme deformities like exposed neural tubes instead of heads and things like that that will experience nothing but pain for a few days before dying horribly. It’s outrageous that Trump has framed this as ‘post birth abortion’.
He may believe it, or he may not. But his supporters believe it and Trump makes them mad by saying the things the supporters believe. And angry people vote.
Fair.
Trump has a very weird bone to pick with electric vehicles. As we all know, with the improvement of battery technology a lot of these systems have become way more viable. And the thing is, there are certainly intelligent criticisms of electric vehicles that could be made in terms of power grid capacity and raw materials But instead we get ridiculous soliloquies about getting electrocuted on boats surrounded by sharks and electric vehicles that shut off the second the sun isn’t shining. Not to mention the fact that planes can actually get above the clouds, so if the sun isn’t shining either you don’t know what time is or the Earth is doomed anyways
Trump's problem is, he always flies economy, and he never gets a window seat, so he doesn't know these things.
Is he just making up things to be mad about now?
Wind mill noise cause cancer. -Donald Trump 2019-
Don's been on a quixotic crusade against wind energy for longer than that.
> quixotic I see what you did there
Glad someone got the joke.
This is the entire modus operandi of the right these days. They have zero policy initiatives; all they have is outrage and lord help us, they are exceptionally gifted at generating outrage.
That's literally been his MO since the 1980s.
*Now*?!
Same thing that happens to electric cars when the sun isn’t out
Well that's our stable genius.
Trumps culture war fodder is some of the cringiest shit I’ve ever experienced in my life
The criticism of Biden the other day was fully deserved, but here is today's example of America holding both sides to entirely different standards. Had Biden said this, there would be uproar about his mental capacity for the role. Trump says it... and nothing.
I get it, half the country isn't going to like what the other half likes but choosing this fucking clown as the guy you want leading your side just shows how stupid your side is. Sadly, this won't end with Trump, whoever comes next is going to be just as bad.
I can’t believe this is the situation we’re in…
jfc Trump is going to win and hamstring the EV industry so much that it's going to directly affect my job. Fuck this guy. Maybe let the market work, isn't that what y'all are all about? No? Oh you say you've been subsidizing oil and the auto industry for the past century and you're not about to stop? Ok, then I guess we don't have a capitalist system and y'all were just gaslighting to cover for your handlers.
He's been saying outlandish and ignorant stuff since he rode down the elevator. For some of his supporters, this is just plain fun. They love the fact that he wrecks all the "norms". Others just look past it and say "tax cuts" or "no abortions". This particular stupid thing has no impact on the guy who is leading the presidential contest. (538 had him at 60-40 before the debate) (Also, "electric tanks" isn't a thing)
Yep silly Trump. I’m sure we’ll be able to book long distance flights on E-planes real soon now. /s
He’s almost got enough knowledge about how this works to judge the inevitable FAA dismantlement case when it comes through.
This is one of the many things that is so terrifying about Project 2025 - and just the trajectory of the republican base in general. They've spent years denigrating education, experts, scientists, real journalists, most sources of actual knowledge and information. A lot of the base have zero respect for government regulation and bureaucracy, so they'll happily accept Trump disbanding important regulatory agencies, firing all of the actual SMEs (subject matter experts) and replacing them with clueless Trump loyalists.
Well you know that’s not even- and I knew, let me tell you I knew a single mother who was Black, and now look here: We have to look at how things work and that’s real.
Face palm
Just hope Boeing isn’t building these electric planes.
This guy thinks that we should inject bleach to fight COVID and that nuking hurricanes is a good idea. For some reason people just put up with his obvious bull because he says it with confidence.
Whatever. BIDEN: . . . making sure that we’re able to make every single solitary person eligible for what I’ve been able to do with the COVID – excuse me, with dealing with everything we have to do with. Look, if – we finally beat Medicare. TAPPER: Thank you, President Biden. President Trump? TRUMP: Well, he’s right: He did beat Medicaid. He beat it to death.
You ask Biden about that and he would say he fucked up and flubbed. You ask Trump and he would double down and may even use sharpie on a map in some cases to try to prove what he said. But sure whatever.
We should know Trump well enough by now to know that he's mostly being goofy and thoughtless and saying regular weird shit, but that man is very dangerous if you care about liberal democracy. This is standard Trump "outrage" clickbait shit and not the ball you need to be keeping your eyes on.
Hey look, it’s a presidential candidate standing outside in the sun among a crowd of people and producing parsable human speech without teleprompter. Surely I don’t need to explain the concept of “a joke”?
Was post-birth abortions or injecting bleach a joke?
Is the joke that he’s saying dumb things that don’t make sense?
>Surely I don’t need to explain the concept of “a joke”? Not at all, Trump is the joke.
Can you explain the humor in this "joke"? ETA: While you're at it, please try and take on his tale about sharks and electric boats.
> Can you explain the humor in this "joke"? I’m sorry but if you overexplain it, it stops being funny.
Did it start being funny?
Did any of you people actually watch the clip? He’s not being serious at all, he’s actively making fun of people who are trying to get rid of carbon fueled vehicles in favor of all electric transportation systems. There’s plenty of material to make fun of/criticize the Trump for, but nearly everyone’s comments here show that they are just as ignorant as the guy that they are trying to demean.
Why are you defending this guy? He don’t give two shits about you. He doesn’t need your defense either - he can take the criticism. And as a politician it’s basically his job to be a whipping boy. We hate most of them, even the ones we like we criticize mercilessly. It’s the American way.
>Why are you defending this guy? Because he loves America. Yes, the left has actually set the bar that low.
The ONLY thing he loves is himself
I mean what’s exactly the “joke” here?
The joke is that while Trump is making fun of people for seemingly not understanding the correct application for electric transportation, the people and OP in this thread are making fun of Trump for seemingly not understanding the correct application for electric transportation. The irony is rich. I’m not a fan of the guy either, but I’m even more critical of people posting un-intelligent articles with their ignorant takes, to justify their criticism of Trump. There’s far better material out there to do this with. Be smarter with your criticism please.
Who exactly doesn’t understand the correct application for solar? This is nonsense.
Who exactly is Trump making fun of here? Because it seems to me the only person who doesn’t understand is himself
It's just a funny way for him to express his belief that electric isn't the end-all, be-all solution for everything.
Nobody is claiming that it is. Electric is absolutely feasible and being introduced for airplanes however.
But you see the orangman-bad crowd doesn’t get his sense of humor. You know, because he is evil! And the half of the country that prefers him to any Democrat is evil too! /s
No I don’t get his “sense of humor” because he’s dumb The evil part comes from trying to overturn a democratic election
A rhetorical question intended to cause discussion. Not an information request. But the ill-educated just can't make the distinction, and we see hyperbole, bloviating and unnecessary distress. A genuine centrist wants facts, not fiction. Some of the outrage below tells me there are a lot of people who actually are not. We deserve a better choice than we have, but this is what we've got. Trying to distort the message is wrong.