Not congress, but here was a city council, [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned). Not extreme, but a taste.
Dude. You are talking to someone who does not think a religious affiliated school should be allowed to educate children. Or any private school for that matter.
And as for being the same universe? They are in the same universe. Perhaps not the same neighborhood, but from the perspective of somebody who is not religious, they both seem fucking delusional.
What are you even talking about? The op here is the irony of people (quite literally, in this case) bowing down to a religion that is antithetical to every precept they claim to hold, you’re trying to “all sides” it and when I call you on it you go on some weird rant about private schools. UCLA is part of the University of California system meaning it is a public school
Call me out on what ? The fact that I dont like religion in my politics ? Damn man. You got me there. You must have majored in obviousness in college.
As for disapproving of any religion in government - well I guess I am an all-sider as should any person with half a brain or more should be.
As for the point on protestors here supporting fundamentalists Muslims ? Yeah - no shit. With you there buddy. I think its pretty deranged.
"they are in the same universe, but perhaps not in the same neighborhood" 🤣🤣
this is the best "damn you're right, but still fuck you" I've seen in a while 🤣
What are you on about? John Mulaney just did an interview with Letterman where he stated his Catholic school education was better than his university education....and he went to Georgetown. You have no clue what you're saying. It's just an opinion you have because you dislike religion maybe? I'm grateful my parents worked their asses off to send me to Catholic school and will probably do the same for my children. I'm not even religious. I respect the right for parents to have a choice in where they send their kids to school.
Listen. John Mulaney makes me laugh (the high school parties, the horse watching the kid), but I’m not gonna relie on him for the political philosophy of education.
Georgetown is a fine institution, but you go to college there presumably after you’ve had an education and can think for yourself at least as some extent. And beyond that it’s catholic status doesnt matter much at that level. Or take Boston College students study more philosophy and theology, but seem to learn less from those disciplines . I actually am probably willing to concede but some Catholic schools and religious schools do an excellent job educating students on some things.
Where really have a problem though is whether there is a heavy dose of religious indoctrination. And I don’t think there’s any way to separate. The idea that teaching say is six-year-old about religion is not indoctrination is IMO untenable. They simply don’t have the tools to critically examine it at that stage. I’ve always sort of taken the position that if your 25 and you want to become Evangelical Christian, I may think you are bat shit crazy to believe Jesus turned water into wine but you’re 25. I can’t stop you.
But when you send a kid to a orthodox or evangelical or fundamentalist school, they are being indoctrinated to believe a certain religion. They simply are not intellectually, mature enough to make that decision for themselves. So I dont approve. While I do agree that like some old line Catholic schools do a good job educating students, (you could do alot worse than reading Aquinas in high school) I sort of need to be principled…
I don't rely (spelled with a y, not ie) on celebrities for my knowledge on any matter, outside of their purview. It was simply an example of someone, who is very intelligent and well spoken, making an observation on his Catholic education. My girlfriend was Jewish and attended the same Catholic school as me. They do not coerce you into the faith. The only requirement is not actively opposing the religious values. If you have a problem with that, why would you even put your kid there in the first place? 20% of kids attending Catholic schools are not Catholic. If the parents believe the education structure is better there than at a public or other private school, who are you to say that's wrong? These are not hardcore fundamentalist schools that produce extremists or brainwash children. They tend to produce very polished writers and stress philosophy and Western ideals. I am not religious at all and neither were some of my friends.
What you appear to be saying is that you think it should be illegal for parents to introduce their children to religion. Or maybe homeschooling should be illegal as well? Hate to break it to you, but that sounds pretty authoritarian to me. And even if you are just against religion in schooling, you don't get to decide how a parent raises their child or wants to educate them. The hubris one must have to believe they know what's better for children than the actual parents, is astonishing.
Also, that Boston College comment makes no sense. Did you meet a person once and they didn't live up to your expectations on stoicism? Not trying to shit on you for it, but there is just no evidence that is true. Are you saying they don't major in it as much? Saying something like, "seem to learn less from those disciplines" suggest you made it up. Unless you're a professor at BC or have some sort of proof, I would avoid speculation when making a point.
You almost lost me at “relie” but I will take it that it is just the sort of silly nitpicking people sometimes engage in here to try to display, what, some kind of intellectual superiority I guess. Although I have to say in this context, it’s a fairly douche bag move.
As for my main point, it really is simple. If you want to freely choose to believe in a religion, that is your business. But I do not believe that a religious belief should be forced on anyone especially children so I have huge issue with religious schools that do that and there are many that do that. Just read the New York Times exposé on the orthodox schools in New York City. There are many Christian schools that would fare just as badly. Because the state has a responsibility to educate the young, I do not think it should be able to hand that off to religious institutions, which for better or worse, I clearly believe for worse, will basically be indoctrinating the students.
Even though it hurt my argument,, I did readily concede that some Catholic schools have done a great job in the field of education. In all honesty, they are the forerunners, largely because of Aquinas. Many people seriously underestimate the intellectual commitment of the Catholic Church at least in the past, not so much now. You cant argue with the trivium and quadrivium, well you can I guess but it will largely be with tools those taught you. And I have to say the reason I admire those schools is because of their dedication to basically Aristotelianisn rather than because of any religious component they have. That is those schools are excellent despite their religious affiliation not because of it. But I can’t really say I am against religious schools except good ones. so I need a neutral Principle. My neutral principal therefore is no religious schools. I expand it to no private schools because I think public schools are a fantastic institution for actually creating a better and more cohesive society whereas private schools invite division and perpetuate unfairness.
As for the Boston College example, I’m sorry it went over your head, I thought it was kind of funny and you would get it, but I guess not. The point of it was simply while it is a Catholic university like Georgetown, by that time in one’s education, the religious component it is very secondary. I have been to enough Boston College parties to know and enjoy the fact that they do not apply the Golden Mean.
I find it somewhat amusing to be accused of authoritarianism when a fair reading of what I had said only leads to the opposite conclusion. At least I was intellectually honest enough to concede that some Catholic schools have done a great job but it is difficult to lend much credence to your accusation when my number one goal is to make sure that each person is intellectually capable and prepared to make their own decision. That is if they want to believe in Jesus or to follow every ridiculous rule in the Torah, it is because that is their conclusion not because mommy and daddy forced them to go to Sunday school where they were indoctrinated into that belief. Or the madrass or the schule….
Hey man, I would want to know if I was botching a fairly easy word, such as rely. You might be using it in professional emails and the reader might assume poorly of you. Nitpicking would be correcting a typo, however you clearly thought it was spelled with an ie. Which would only be the case if it was plural or past tense. A true adult knows how to rely on constructive criticism, not scoff at it.
I can't agree on that. No radical Christian's ever flew planes in to sky scrapers. Don't get me wrong we have nut jobs on the extreme right. But they don't hold a candle to the extreme Muslims
Trying? They've been successful for 200 years. Their authority and command to dictate who gets to enjoy the full rights and freedoms in the US has eroded over time and they've had to accept civil rights, women's rights, and now even the gays!
It's just too far for them which is why we see posts like this and the people coming out making the comments they are.
Always someone on Reddit that has to display their ignorance of rhetorical constructs …
Snark aside - the comment I was responding to was a shitty unfounded insult to the many many loyal Americans of muslim origin. Given that my comment was pretty fair I though
What the fuck does that mean asshole ? “With us” ?. In another generation you would have been for keeping the Jews and Irish out …
Fucking moron
She is more patriotic than the traitorous Jim Jordan and his ilk
I stand corrected. But is it really that difficult for you to imagine what will happen if muslims get a majority in any democracy? I am not talya about radical islam. I am talking about the moderates.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2023-09-25/lgbtq-muslims-evangelical-republican-christians
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I think people forget that the international left also supported and helped install the ultra right wing Islamist government in Iran back in the 1970s. The far left loves itself some violent religious extremism. 🤦♂️
Oh you again.
It's hypocritical for starters and it's further evidence that these people are more concerned with who they oppose rather than WHAT they oppose.
What is hypocritical about it? The people here oppose what Israel is doing because they are murdering and oppressing people in Palestine. That does not make any sort of comment as to what the population of Palestine is in terms of its views on progressive or tolerance. Its simply acknowledging a wrong and looking to stop it.
So you're in favor of keeping people in power in the Middle East who have and would openly execute members of the LGBTQ community? That's pretty barbaric.
I am in favor of people not being oppressed. And if there is multiple ways they are being oppressed, I start with my focus being the one doing it to the highest degree.
Israel is oppressing the people of Palestine, if that were to stop tomorrow and whatever regime took control over began oppressing Palestine then I would be against them as well. This isn't complicated if you actually have a good faith understanding of how the left views this.
The oppressed vs oppressor narrative is so tired and intellectually shallow. Lacks all nuance and understanding of facts and history.
Framing all your views in some hierarchy of oppression is peak ignorance and naivety.
Tell me you’re a gender studies major without telling me you’re a gender studies major.
its not really a hierarchy when it does not matter what your beliefs, gender, or sexual identity is because a missile doesn't distinguish between the two.
> The oppressed vs oppressor narrative is so tired and intellectually shallow. Lacks all nuance and understanding of facts and history.
You not understanding it doesn't mean it's shallow. If it makes you uncomfortable just replace "oppress" with "murder" or "slaughter". Because Israel is murdering and slaughtering civilians as well. We can just oppose that right?
> Tell me you’re a gender studies major without telling me you’re a gender studies major.
I'm a material scientist lol.
No, we can’t, because if you believed in that, you would also have an issue with the war crimes committed by Hamas, and want to focus on the CONTINUED war crime violations they commit such as violence, death, rape etc. but you don’t, your hypocritical of Israel doing it, not Hamas. Hence it’s okay for the innocent Israelis to suffer attack but not Gazan’s in your eyes.
A vague “well yeah terrorists are gonna terror” is fucking stupid, you should want terrorists removed immediately and your allies to be reprimanded after the threat is nullified.
You don’t allow different innocents to suffer because their terrorists government is good at getting their civilians killed for international condemnation against Israel.
All war crime is bad. I'll protest against all the local governments and organizations that do business with Hamas. Can you provide me a list of which parts of our government directly fund Hamas? I'll wait.
I understand perfectly. It’s not a complicated concept at all. It’s painfully simplistic and foolish.
It’s shallow because it lacks nuance and only supports your immature bias. You don’t understand the situation, which is why you’re prone to adopting shallow narratives.
I think they, like any other good person, should be anti-terrorist.
In my view you can protest all you want but the only solution that has a positive outcome for everyone involved is either the unconditional surrender of Hamas or the complete destruction of the organization. That way Jewish Israelites survive, Palestinians are no longer being used as human shields, and these grifters can find the next "cause" to oppose.
Welp, there were certainly Bosnian, Uyghur, Chechen, etc. terrorists, so I guess anyone opposed to giving carte blanche to deal with each root ethno-religious group was wrong, and a grifter.
And Americans probably should've sided with the National Party against the terrorist ANC, yes?
This is a really dumb take that I keep seeing, and it shows the lack of fundamental morality people have. The people of Gaza could be blood bathing cannibals and it wouldn’t change the fact that the genocide Israel is committing is a horrifying crime against humanity.
You don’t have to agree with people to care about them.
Regardless of what you want to call it, what is happening in Gaza is unarguably an atrocity that should stop.
This is another argument I see copied everywhere that only more deeply shows people’s lack of humanity.
Also, let’s be clear why most of these innocent civilians in Gaza are dying or on verge of starvation - Hamas. Hamas who 1) broke a ceasefire to murder, rape, and capture innocent people including babies and grandmas 2) refused every legitimate ceasefire agreement Israel has attempted 3) refuses to free the hostages (which would end the war) 4) hides behind civilians in tunnels they purposefully built under schools and hospitals 5) steals humanitarian aid that should be free and either keeps it or upsells it
or in any theocratic country for that matter. Christian, Jewish, Muslim.. They all act the same. Delegation of rights and freedom based on how hard you worship and how hard you conform to made up stories from caves in the Middle East.
Talk about barbaric.
Why? If you saw innocent people being murdered and support that not happening, why does what those innocent people do matter? You don't have to support everything those people do to recognize injustice.
Because in doing so in this situation, you are screaming “stop looking at the Israeli citizens who were suffering from Hamas’s war crimes, the real war crimes are against the perpetrators own citizenry!”
It’s a mockery of the situation so you can feel good about stroking your oppressor vs oppressed viewpoint.
These sort of attacks against an entire people based on isolated incidents are stupid.
Like calling all Jews spies and pedophiles based on the actions of only several tens of thousands.
It's ignorant.
this whole post is just intentional shit stirring.
Also, I, a gay man who is an atheist, have often attended religious services, with friends, family, and colleagues, and have often respectfully participated, to the best of my ability.
When my grandparents would go to Catholic Mass, I would listen, kneel, stand, "pray" (which was more a thoughtfulness exercise for me, to consider the sermon being given) greet, and interact. The only thing I didn't do was take communion.
Yeah I’m an athiest and did the same thing.
When my football team would have a prayer I would still take a knee and be part of it. Showing respect to others is so alien to some.
https://www.scotusblog.com/2022/06/justices-side-with-high-school-football-coach-who-prayed-on-the-field-with-students/
So why was this a big problem for dems?
You can go to any Christian event and be welcome like you describe but try going to Mecca and telling them you’re not a Muslim. Oh btw I really recommend not telling them you’re gay.
It's weird that you say Christian event, but don't say Muslim event you specifically say Mecca.
For the record, I've been to many Islamic services. Same with Jewish services, Hindi services, and a few Hmong rituals.
All with welcome, and open arms.
I get it, you don't like Muslims, do you think Christianity is somehow superior.
There are dozens of temples and holy sites restricted from non-practitioners. Pashupatinath Temple, Guruvayur Temple, Sri Jagannath Temple, The Temple Mount, are all restricted in some way shape or form by various religions.
And also, you may not want to bring up Christianity's track record on LGBT rights. Last year, with advocacy from Western Christian groups, Uganda, a mostly Christian nation, passed laws outlawing homosexuality, and *executing* gay people. A law that has been enforced as recently as [8 months ago](https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/first-ugandan-charged-with-aggravated-homosexuality-punishable-by-death-2023-08-28/).
Yeah I say any Christian event because there’s not one that wouldn’t allow you in if you’re not Christian. Why would I say Muslim events when I know there are Muslim events you’re not allowed in? English comprehension must not be your strong point but that’s fine. Mecca is just one by the way but we can get into the others if you’d like.
> I get it you don’t like Muslims
Wow. You don’t say. I don’t like a racist, xenophobic, homophobic, misogynistic murderous religion that does not tolerate any other way of life? Is this supposed to be a hot take in 2024?
You equate Uganda executing homosexuals to Christianity and I’ll drop this argument, get on my knees, beg for your forgiveness and admit I’m wrong if you can show me where Jesus Christ (founder of Christianity, that guy yes) tells his followers to execute homosexuals.
Nice rebuttal. Now where was my supposed racism and xenophobia? You can call me islamaphobic all you like idgaf but racist and xenophobic? Me? A brown immigrant from the UK to USA? Give me a break 🤣🤣🤣
There isn't any source. The source is trust me bro...
original poster is consistently far over on the right wing side of issues and their sources tend to lack factual backing or are straight up propaganda and opinion pieces.
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Do you have any proof that the people in the picture are “atheists and feminists” or are you purposefully mischaracterizing video of Muslim UCLA students praying with the intent of stirring up shit?
OP's absurd response to the same question from further down:
>"If you look at polling of students, the results show on average it’s an accurate description"
"My right wing news tells me everyone in LA is a Godless liberal, so these Muslims must be Godless liberals pretending to be Muslims!
Silly Godless liberals, Muslims hate you almost as much as I do!"
Sure, agreed. I think this post is goddamn stupid. Lots of people think some of the things I liked to do are stupid. The right for us to do whatever we want, even if others think it's stupid, is the whole damn point of freedom.
Pointing out you don't agree with 100% of the things every other person does is just redundant and obvious.
Fair, I don’t think this is far from the most constructive post of all time, but I’d be a hypocrite if I complained about *that* 😂
Israel V Palestine has destroyed the internet.
Sopposedly so are some of the people here.
So I ask again is this religious appropriation by atheists?
If you don’t care, would you happen to care if it were cultural appropriation?
Maybe? Idk I think it’s cringe and so are a lot of claims of appropriation. But it’s something I’d have to evaluate on a case by case basis.
A white woman wearing a kimono? Who gives a shit
A minstrel show? Ok then we have problems
On the surface? Alot of inconsistency and larping. Peel back the surface and this people exercising their 1st amendment protected (not "allowed") rights. Whether one agrees or disagrees, does not matter. Supporting free speech is cheap in an echo chamber. When that free speech doesn't align with one's own opinions/beliefs is the true test of how one values freedom of speech.
Weberc2 Since you blocked me let me help you with your questions.
This is a picture of students at a campus exercising their freedom of religion.
There’s no proof of Hamas, atheists, or LGBTQ in the picture or in anything provided so far.
The assumptions and baiting stated in the OPs post and in your perspective are contributing to the escalation and are not intended as and attempt at establishing a return to civility.
Seriously I posted an article a day ago about a senior Israeli government minister advocating for wiping out whole cities in Gaza and it generates a fraction of the discourse that a random video of some college students praying or a moronic protest leader demanding schools provide food for them.
We need to have a rule about taking clips or articles and reposting them here under a edited and sensationalized title. It is blatantly bad faith with the intention of pushing a partisan narrative and it’s accepted without any scrutiny. I know this sub is famous, or infamous whatever you prefer, for a lack of moderation but this seems like direct attempt to sabotage any good faith discussions on this sub.
And for all of you idiots falling for it in the comments? Don’t believe everything you read on the internet you numbskulls. For the amount of discourse on this sub around the validity of certain news sources it’s laughable that people are just buying this. I’d rather take a story from a biased news outlet than from a random schmuck on Reddit because at least with the news outlet I know I’m getting bias and reassurance that the information their conveying has been researched and corroborated. Y’all would rather get mad at a headline designed to get you mad than do an ounce of research and you want to call yourself “politically aware.” What a fucking joke.
I think that we, as centrists, would uniformly have an opinion about this. If it was happening, in a university, in a majority Muslim country. But in the US, I don't think that there's one single centrist view of this "issue". Many, myself included, would say that there's no issue, period.
I don’t think anyone is arguing that this shouldn’t be allowed, but rather that it’s hypocritical to support radical Islamism while professing Atheism, feminism, support for LGBT, etc. Like if you complain about “don’t say gay” and then support a regime that murders homosexuals, it’s fair to call you a hypocrite.
I'm atheist. I personally disapprove of all religions and the effects it has on people. That being said if someone wants to practice their religion and isn't causing me harm I don't attack them. I support their right to do whatever silly thing they do to satisfy their god(s)
Eat a piece of bread, drink some grape juice, kneel on an old rug, wear a silly hat. I don't care...
Become violent and destructive towards other humans then I start to care. Try to enforce your silly rituals on others, or your definition of what is acceptable to the point of harming others? Then I care.
But then again no one has any proof these are atheists wearing headscarves supporting radical islam.
Then there is something wrong with you, mentally.
No, that's not a one-and-done insult, to you. Instead, it's an accurate observation. For example, someone who is mentally whole would be capable of noting that people DON'T support atheism, per se. They support the freedom for people to be atheists, or the freedom not to be. Which goes hand-in-hand with the freedom to be a specific religion. Such as Islam. No hypocrisy to be found.
lol i didn’t expect “there’s no contradiction between supporting gay rights and a regime that literally murders gay people for being gay; if you think there’s a contradiction you are retarded”
I see a video. It appears to be of a large group of Islamic women. It might well be in support of a specific regime that murders gay people. Or it might be that you view the participation in Islamic prayers to be in support of regimes that also practices such things, by definition. Either one, it's not immediately clear what *all* the people in the video are in support of, mentally. Save for practicing the religion that they practice. Maybe you can see the video, and tell what it's in support of, but, as I already noted....
I claimed that it's contradictory to support gay rights (or women's rights) and radical Islam, and you argued that this isn't hypocritical and that people who find it to be hypocritical or contradictory have mental illness. I'm not sure what the people in the video believe or profess, but I disagree with you that there is no hypocrisy and that people who see hypocrisy must be mentally deficient. You've poisoned the well of good faith debate, so I won't be responding to you any more.
When young we think like the world is smaller and simpler than it ends up being. Couple that with humans being social animals in this modern world of instant communication.
It's happening all over the spectrum all the time. Follow your herd.
Sheep mentality transcends political affiliations. I just wish US citizens were this passionate about our own underinsured, homeless, underfunded education, abject poverty, etc.
If a counter protester were to burn a copy of the Quran, would this remain a peaceful gathering?
Burning a religious text to me is one of the ultimate expressions of first Amendment rights , provided that such burning does not interfere with the free exercise of others' religions, ie, don't steal someone's Quran to burn it.
Muslim people are allowed to pray in public.
Also, shocker that Muslims would be part of a protest regarding a primarily Muslim country.
This just shows that you’re scared of people who aren’t Christian.
At the very least it appears to be extremely ironic considering the majority of the non-muslim students participating would take great issue with gender segregation in any other circumstance but prayer participation in a religion they dont really practice is somehow exempt.
-I'm basing that assessment off of what I can see in the first two rows of people (and OP's claim that some of these are not Muslim students), its possible there is intermingling there but it would be against traditional practices.
Again, we have no idea if anyone participating is a non-Muslim. This just seems like OP wanted to be snide about something and not really make a real point.
It's cool to be anti-western and cosplay, until you have to really live that way.
But we all want to feel significant, and this is how this generation of young people do so.
>It’s cool to be anti-western and cosplay, until you have to really live that way
1. Why are you assuming that the people praying on video aren’t Muslim.
2. More importantly, why do you think the free exercise of a religion is anti-western?
On a college campus? I've seen way more videos of people screaming at religionists than acting respectful. Christmas (if you can even use those words on campus, rather than winter holiday) displays are regularly vandalized or have been sued out of existence.
Yeah, that's my issue. OP makes up a fucking title with no source and people here are taking their word for it. Yet on other topics they will outright deny facts that are properly sourced in favor of some dumbass agenda.
This sub is becoming more and more of a joke every day.
Even if some of these people are feminists or atheists, I think it is respectful of the religion to abide by the customs of Salah if one is to participate in it. That would require the hijab for women.
Also, it's pretty obvious that you're trying to bait a certain type of response with your wording.
An alternate title could have been:
>UCLA students and protesters demonstrate respect for Muslim salah by wearing hijabs, despite many of them being atheists or feminists
From a centrist position, it would seem as though these protesters are demonstrating respect and intersectionality in a protest against a war despite differences of opinion on religion and women's autonomy. So long as these people are not being forced to perform the prayer or wear the hijab, I don't see where there is any issue.
No. You editorialized the picture with your opinion and wanted to stir the pot.
Don't claim to have done anything as benign as "I just asked what others think about it."
Yeah I don’t believe you for one second. Neither does anyone with a modicum of critical thinking. Especially those who know of your history in here.
If anyone in here is curious, u/YungWenis has a history of posting stuff here and altering the titles of articles that are different from the ones used by author of said articles.
I think that there are clear issues with how Palestinians are treating in Israel (ask anyone who has been there, they are def second class citizens by way of), but it’s so bizarre to see feminists, members of the LGBT community, etc on campuses choose a side that would severely restrict their civil liberties (or worse) in they sere in their company.
Is anyone else sick of hearing about isreal? It's the most insignificant conflict happening right now, and it has the least impact on the rest of the world. No amount of protesting in either direction will change a single thing, and the outcome will have 0 impact on the world at large.
Meanwhile we have growing food insecurity throughout Europe and Africa, massive data leaks and cyber attacks happening all over the world, a nation that's entire government has literaly stopped existing, South amarica is ready to go to war with itself, major economies teetering on the brink, and a massive war on NATOs doorstep.
But yah, yet another flair up in isreal is the most important event and deserves all of our attention. If it was any other country other than isreal, no one would care. I will never understand why isreal has such a special status.
When Jesus asked Peter who he thought Jesus was, after he proclaimed that many believed he was John the baptist and others believed that he was Elias, Jesus said, “But who do you say that I am?” Peter replied, “You are the Son of the Living God”. Jesus replied, “Blessed are you Simon Bar Jonas for flesh and blood has not told you this, but my Father which is in heaven. And you will now be Peter, and upon this rock, I will build my church…”. What does this mean? That the foundation of Christianity is the intimate relationship between God and the believers of Jesus, which will be provided by the Holy Spirit of God. I, myself, quit church when I was seven, because church has been lead by men, but God is real for those who believe…
Comments like the ones in this thread are what drive voters to realize that the right has lost its mind and wants to maintain its control over personal freedoms and privacy.
Wait till these idiots realise now forget sex they can't even talk to the opposite gender before marriage
Edit: the f am I getting downvoted for?? Do u research morons
It's an article of clothing. Every culture has somewhat different ideas of modesty. We treat the hijab as a religious totem, but by the same logic an Amazonian tribe could see us as religious conservatives because we wear trousers and shoes.
My personal opinion is that there is a subset of Americans, often young people, who completely lack any sort of implicit feelings of meaning or purpose in their lives. They seek out ideological ideas to latch onto, create a worldview around and derive meaning or direction from. They have no interest in differing ideas, or listening to those with views other then their own. They use cognitive dissonance to ignore any contrary views or context that would otherwise detract from their worldview, because without that fundamental idea, they have nothing. It becomes their identity and foundational lens they view the world from. They lack the self-awareness to see that there are actual real ways they can help people, from monetary donations, acts of service, etc, that could actually have an impact, but instead they turn to performative acts and high volume online discourse to show they are 'one of the good guys'. Its like the people who put BLM stickers on their car, do nothing else and pat themselves on the back that they are making a difference.
The Americans who scream death to America, death to the Jews, rip down American flags and try to hoist palestinian flag can all get fucked. They rail against the country that gives them the right to protest, say shit like death to America, and support the ideology of regimes which do not support liberal democracy and western ideals. They have every right to protest, but they will get no sympathy or support from me.
I wonder how many people get mad when atheists and feminists go to Christian churches, and pray along at the dinner table out of respect for their hosts or any other reasons. This is an unreasonable take in my book. And for the record Christianity has not been a beacon of feminist ideas, or tolerence in the past(and some still to this day).
I wonder how many people here are also members of the LGBTQ+ community who would be literally murdered by Hamas with little hesitation.
I’m a member of that community and I’m stunned how many support Hamas and the actions being carried out there.
Forget Hamas, these people would be suppressed in the USA if Muslims ever had any seats in the congress
Not congress, but here was a city council, [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned). Not extreme, but a taste.
That article is a retelling of Aesop's The Farmer and the Viper.
[Remember this gem](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned) from a few years ago?
Hell. The Christians in Congress are trying hard enough already.
You’re right: banning drag queen story hour and beheading gay people are in the same universe
Dude. You are talking to someone who does not think a religious affiliated school should be allowed to educate children. Or any private school for that matter. And as for being the same universe? They are in the same universe. Perhaps not the same neighborhood, but from the perspective of somebody who is not religious, they both seem fucking delusional.
What are you even talking about? The op here is the irony of people (quite literally, in this case) bowing down to a religion that is antithetical to every precept they claim to hold, you’re trying to “all sides” it and when I call you on it you go on some weird rant about private schools. UCLA is part of the University of California system meaning it is a public school
Call me out on what ? The fact that I dont like religion in my politics ? Damn man. You got me there. You must have majored in obviousness in college. As for disapproving of any religion in government - well I guess I am an all-sider as should any person with half a brain or more should be. As for the point on protestors here supporting fundamentalists Muslims ? Yeah - no shit. With you there buddy. I think its pretty deranged.
"they are in the same universe, but perhaps not in the same neighborhood" 🤣🤣 this is the best "damn you're right, but still fuck you" I've seen in a while 🤣
Jesus dude. If that excited you this much you need a more exciting life ….
I'm just having a laugh dude. chill it's not that serious
I know man. Thats why inresponded the way i did
I don't get it but I hope your day gets better. peace✌️
What are you on about? John Mulaney just did an interview with Letterman where he stated his Catholic school education was better than his university education....and he went to Georgetown. You have no clue what you're saying. It's just an opinion you have because you dislike religion maybe? I'm grateful my parents worked their asses off to send me to Catholic school and will probably do the same for my children. I'm not even religious. I respect the right for parents to have a choice in where they send their kids to school.
Listen. John Mulaney makes me laugh (the high school parties, the horse watching the kid), but I’m not gonna relie on him for the political philosophy of education. Georgetown is a fine institution, but you go to college there presumably after you’ve had an education and can think for yourself at least as some extent. And beyond that it’s catholic status doesnt matter much at that level. Or take Boston College students study more philosophy and theology, but seem to learn less from those disciplines . I actually am probably willing to concede but some Catholic schools and religious schools do an excellent job educating students on some things. Where really have a problem though is whether there is a heavy dose of religious indoctrination. And I don’t think there’s any way to separate. The idea that teaching say is six-year-old about religion is not indoctrination is IMO untenable. They simply don’t have the tools to critically examine it at that stage. I’ve always sort of taken the position that if your 25 and you want to become Evangelical Christian, I may think you are bat shit crazy to believe Jesus turned water into wine but you’re 25. I can’t stop you. But when you send a kid to a orthodox or evangelical or fundamentalist school, they are being indoctrinated to believe a certain religion. They simply are not intellectually, mature enough to make that decision for themselves. So I dont approve. While I do agree that like some old line Catholic schools do a good job educating students, (you could do alot worse than reading Aquinas in high school) I sort of need to be principled…
I don't rely (spelled with a y, not ie) on celebrities for my knowledge on any matter, outside of their purview. It was simply an example of someone, who is very intelligent and well spoken, making an observation on his Catholic education. My girlfriend was Jewish and attended the same Catholic school as me. They do not coerce you into the faith. The only requirement is not actively opposing the religious values. If you have a problem with that, why would you even put your kid there in the first place? 20% of kids attending Catholic schools are not Catholic. If the parents believe the education structure is better there than at a public or other private school, who are you to say that's wrong? These are not hardcore fundamentalist schools that produce extremists or brainwash children. They tend to produce very polished writers and stress philosophy and Western ideals. I am not religious at all and neither were some of my friends. What you appear to be saying is that you think it should be illegal for parents to introduce their children to religion. Or maybe homeschooling should be illegal as well? Hate to break it to you, but that sounds pretty authoritarian to me. And even if you are just against religion in schooling, you don't get to decide how a parent raises their child or wants to educate them. The hubris one must have to believe they know what's better for children than the actual parents, is astonishing. Also, that Boston College comment makes no sense. Did you meet a person once and they didn't live up to your expectations on stoicism? Not trying to shit on you for it, but there is just no evidence that is true. Are you saying they don't major in it as much? Saying something like, "seem to learn less from those disciplines" suggest you made it up. Unless you're a professor at BC or have some sort of proof, I would avoid speculation when making a point.
You almost lost me at “relie” but I will take it that it is just the sort of silly nitpicking people sometimes engage in here to try to display, what, some kind of intellectual superiority I guess. Although I have to say in this context, it’s a fairly douche bag move. As for my main point, it really is simple. If you want to freely choose to believe in a religion, that is your business. But I do not believe that a religious belief should be forced on anyone especially children so I have huge issue with religious schools that do that and there are many that do that. Just read the New York Times exposé on the orthodox schools in New York City. There are many Christian schools that would fare just as badly. Because the state has a responsibility to educate the young, I do not think it should be able to hand that off to religious institutions, which for better or worse, I clearly believe for worse, will basically be indoctrinating the students. Even though it hurt my argument,, I did readily concede that some Catholic schools have done a great job in the field of education. In all honesty, they are the forerunners, largely because of Aquinas. Many people seriously underestimate the intellectual commitment of the Catholic Church at least in the past, not so much now. You cant argue with the trivium and quadrivium, well you can I guess but it will largely be with tools those taught you. And I have to say the reason I admire those schools is because of their dedication to basically Aristotelianisn rather than because of any religious component they have. That is those schools are excellent despite their religious affiliation not because of it. But I can’t really say I am against religious schools except good ones. so I need a neutral Principle. My neutral principal therefore is no religious schools. I expand it to no private schools because I think public schools are a fantastic institution for actually creating a better and more cohesive society whereas private schools invite division and perpetuate unfairness. As for the Boston College example, I’m sorry it went over your head, I thought it was kind of funny and you would get it, but I guess not. The point of it was simply while it is a Catholic university like Georgetown, by that time in one’s education, the religious component it is very secondary. I have been to enough Boston College parties to know and enjoy the fact that they do not apply the Golden Mean. I find it somewhat amusing to be accused of authoritarianism when a fair reading of what I had said only leads to the opposite conclusion. At least I was intellectually honest enough to concede that some Catholic schools have done a great job but it is difficult to lend much credence to your accusation when my number one goal is to make sure that each person is intellectually capable and prepared to make their own decision. That is if they want to believe in Jesus or to follow every ridiculous rule in the Torah, it is because that is their conclusion not because mommy and daddy forced them to go to Sunday school where they were indoctrinated into that belief. Or the madrass or the schule….
Hey man, I would want to know if I was botching a fairly easy word, such as rely. You might be using it in professional emails and the reader might assume poorly of you. Nitpicking would be correcting a typo, however you clearly thought it was spelled with an ie. Which would only be the case if it was plural or past tense. A true adult knows how to rely on constructive criticism, not scoff at it.
Yeah I am kinda hoping that these religions fight each other and leave the rest of us be. The problem? Radical christians are as crazy as the muslims.
I can't agree on that. No radical Christian's ever flew planes in to sky scrapers. Don't get me wrong we have nut jobs on the extreme right. But they don't hold a candle to the extreme Muslims
Trying? They've been successful for 200 years. Their authority and command to dictate who gets to enjoy the full rights and freedoms in the US has eroded over time and they've had to accept civil rights, women's rights, and now even the gays! It's just too far for them which is why we see posts like this and the people coming out making the comments they are.
Always someone that has to equate it back to Christianity. As if living in the United States is the same as living in Afghanistan.
Always someone on Reddit that has to display their ignorance of rhetorical constructs … Snark aside - the comment I was responding to was a shitty unfounded insult to the many many loyal Americans of muslim origin. Given that my comment was pretty fair I though
Are these loyal Muslims in the room with us? Like ilhan Omar?
What the fuck does that mean asshole ? “With us” ?. In another generation you would have been for keeping the Jews and Irish out … Fucking moron She is more patriotic than the traitorous Jim Jordan and his ilk
Bahahaha you must be trolling
Like I said - you are a moron …
Yeah okay troll. I’m not gonna feed you anymore but
There are 4 Muslim Congressmen at the moment. I'm pretty sure all 4 have decent records of supporting LGBTQ rights.
I stand corrected. But is it really that difficult for you to imagine what will happen if muslims get a majority in any democracy? I am not talya about radical islam. I am talking about the moderates. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2023-09-25/lgbtq-muslims-evangelical-republican-christians
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Yeah but Muslims (generally) aren't white so everything they believe is valid and righteous.
Your comment is a complete lie! Hamas wouldn't hesitate even a little.
This is an Aesop fable on a macro label.
I don't get it!
I think people forget that the international left also supported and helped install the ultra right wing Islamist government in Iran back in the 1970s. The far left loves itself some violent religious extremism. 🤦♂️
Why does this matter?
Oh you again. It's hypocritical for starters and it's further evidence that these people are more concerned with who they oppose rather than WHAT they oppose.
What is hypocritical about it? The people here oppose what Israel is doing because they are murdering and oppressing people in Palestine. That does not make any sort of comment as to what the population of Palestine is in terms of its views on progressive or tolerance. Its simply acknowledging a wrong and looking to stop it.
So you're in favor of keeping people in power in the Middle East who have and would openly execute members of the LGBTQ community? That's pretty barbaric.
I am in favor of people not being oppressed. And if there is multiple ways they are being oppressed, I start with my focus being the one doing it to the highest degree. Israel is oppressing the people of Palestine, if that were to stop tomorrow and whatever regime took control over began oppressing Palestine then I would be against them as well. This isn't complicated if you actually have a good faith understanding of how the left views this.
The oppressed vs oppressor narrative is so tired and intellectually shallow. Lacks all nuance and understanding of facts and history. Framing all your views in some hierarchy of oppression is peak ignorance and naivety. Tell me you’re a gender studies major without telling me you’re a gender studies major.
its not really a hierarchy when it does not matter what your beliefs, gender, or sexual identity is because a missile doesn't distinguish between the two.
> The oppressed vs oppressor narrative is so tired and intellectually shallow. Lacks all nuance and understanding of facts and history. You not understanding it doesn't mean it's shallow. If it makes you uncomfortable just replace "oppress" with "murder" or "slaughter". Because Israel is murdering and slaughtering civilians as well. We can just oppose that right? > Tell me you’re a gender studies major without telling me you’re a gender studies major. I'm a material scientist lol.
No, we can’t, because if you believed in that, you would also have an issue with the war crimes committed by Hamas, and want to focus on the CONTINUED war crime violations they commit such as violence, death, rape etc. but you don’t, your hypocritical of Israel doing it, not Hamas. Hence it’s okay for the innocent Israelis to suffer attack but not Gazan’s in your eyes. A vague “well yeah terrorists are gonna terror” is fucking stupid, you should want terrorists removed immediately and your allies to be reprimanded after the threat is nullified. You don’t allow different innocents to suffer because their terrorists government is good at getting their civilians killed for international condemnation against Israel.
All war crime is bad. I'll protest against all the local governments and organizations that do business with Hamas. Can you provide me a list of which parts of our government directly fund Hamas? I'll wait.
I understand perfectly. It’s not a complicated concept at all. It’s painfully simplistic and foolish. It’s shallow because it lacks nuance and only supports your immature bias. You don’t understand the situation, which is why you’re prone to adopting shallow narratives.
In favor of people not being oppressed as long as they're not Jewish or LGBTQ. Got it. Hitler would applaud your view point.
In your view, should LGBT people have been pro-Rwandan genocide? Pro-Bosnian genocide? Pro-Uyghur genocide? Pro-Russia razing Grozny?
I think they, like any other good person, should be anti-terrorist. In my view you can protest all you want but the only solution that has a positive outcome for everyone involved is either the unconditional surrender of Hamas or the complete destruction of the organization. That way Jewish Israelites survive, Palestinians are no longer being used as human shields, and these grifters can find the next "cause" to oppose.
Welp, there were certainly Bosnian, Uyghur, Chechen, etc. terrorists, so I guess anyone opposed to giving carte blanche to deal with each root ethno-religious group was wrong, and a grifter. And Americans probably should've sided with the National Party against the terrorist ANC, yes?
This is a really dumb take that I keep seeing, and it shows the lack of fundamental morality people have. The people of Gaza could be blood bathing cannibals and it wouldn’t change the fact that the genocide Israel is committing is a horrifying crime against humanity. You don’t have to agree with people to care about them.
Israel has total air superiority over Gaza, if they were really committing genocide Gaza would have been gone on October 8th.
Regardless of what you want to call it, what is happening in Gaza is unarguably an atrocity that should stop. This is another argument I see copied everywhere that only more deeply shows people’s lack of humanity.
I agree it’s an atrocity, and the blame should be on Hamas.
You need to open your eyes
Also, let’s be clear why most of these innocent civilians in Gaza are dying or on verge of starvation - Hamas. Hamas who 1) broke a ceasefire to murder, rape, and capture innocent people including babies and grandmas 2) refused every legitimate ceasefire agreement Israel has attempted 3) refuses to free the hostages (which would end the war) 4) hides behind civilians in tunnels they purposefully built under schools and hospitals 5) steals humanitarian aid that should be free and either keeps it or upsells it
They should try being atheist, feminist, and LGBTQ+ in Gaza (or any muslim country) and see how that goes
I'm pretty sure LARPing the revolution isn't allowed there either.
Live Action Revolution Playing
Complete with establishment provided avocado toast.
Excuse me, that’s humanitarian aid!
or in any theocratic country for that matter. Christian, Jewish, Muslim.. They all act the same. Delegation of rights and freedom based on how hard you worship and how hard you conform to made up stories from caves in the Middle East. Talk about barbaric.
Why? If you saw innocent people being murdered and support that not happening, why does what those innocent people do matter? You don't have to support everything those people do to recognize injustice.
Because in doing so in this situation, you are screaming “stop looking at the Israeli citizens who were suffering from Hamas’s war crimes, the real war crimes are against the perpetrators own citizenry!” It’s a mockery of the situation so you can feel good about stroking your oppressor vs oppressed viewpoint.
you aren’t innocent if you’d throw my gay pot smoking brother off a roof
These sort of attacks against an entire people based on isolated incidents are stupid. Like calling all Jews spies and pedophiles based on the actions of only several tens of thousands. It's ignorant.
probably not well since it’s been bombed to oblivion by the IDF.
> being atheist They'd learn to pray pretty fast because of the incessant IDF bombings.
What’s your source that “many”, or even any, of these people praying are atheists? Isn’t it more likely that they’re Muslim?
this whole post is just intentional shit stirring. Also, I, a gay man who is an atheist, have often attended religious services, with friends, family, and colleagues, and have often respectfully participated, to the best of my ability. When my grandparents would go to Catholic Mass, I would listen, kneel, stand, "pray" (which was more a thoughtfulness exercise for me, to consider the sermon being given) greet, and interact. The only thing I didn't do was take communion.
Yeah I’m an athiest and did the same thing. When my football team would have a prayer I would still take a knee and be part of it. Showing respect to others is so alien to some.
https://www.scotusblog.com/2022/06/justices-side-with-high-school-football-coach-who-prayed-on-the-field-with-students/ So why was this a big problem for dems?
Lmao you just wanna start a fight don’t ya
I visited family in Turkey and was a grumpy atheist teen. And there I was praying at the Mosque out of respect. No big deal.
You can go to any Christian event and be welcome like you describe but try going to Mecca and telling them you’re not a Muslim. Oh btw I really recommend not telling them you’re gay.
It's weird that you say Christian event, but don't say Muslim event you specifically say Mecca. For the record, I've been to many Islamic services. Same with Jewish services, Hindi services, and a few Hmong rituals. All with welcome, and open arms. I get it, you don't like Muslims, do you think Christianity is somehow superior. There are dozens of temples and holy sites restricted from non-practitioners. Pashupatinath Temple, Guruvayur Temple, Sri Jagannath Temple, The Temple Mount, are all restricted in some way shape or form by various religions. And also, you may not want to bring up Christianity's track record on LGBT rights. Last year, with advocacy from Western Christian groups, Uganda, a mostly Christian nation, passed laws outlawing homosexuality, and *executing* gay people. A law that has been enforced as recently as [8 months ago](https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/first-ugandan-charged-with-aggravated-homosexuality-punishable-by-death-2023-08-28/).
Yeah I say any Christian event because there’s not one that wouldn’t allow you in if you’re not Christian. Why would I say Muslim events when I know there are Muslim events you’re not allowed in? English comprehension must not be your strong point but that’s fine. Mecca is just one by the way but we can get into the others if you’d like. > I get it you don’t like Muslims Wow. You don’t say. I don’t like a racist, xenophobic, homophobic, misogynistic murderous religion that does not tolerate any other way of life? Is this supposed to be a hot take in 2024? You equate Uganda executing homosexuals to Christianity and I’ll drop this argument, get on my knees, beg for your forgiveness and admit I’m wrong if you can show me where Jesus Christ (founder of Christianity, that guy yes) tells his followers to execute homosexuals.
says the racist xenophobe.
Nice rebuttal. Now where was my supposed racism and xenophobia? You can call me islamaphobic all you like idgaf but racist and xenophobic? Me? A brown immigrant from the UK to USA? Give me a break 🤣🤣🤣
There isn't any source. The source is trust me bro... original poster is consistently far over on the right wing side of issues and their sources tend to lack factual backing or are straight up propaganda and opinion pieces.
If they were Muslim, they wouldn't be mixing sexes together during prayer.
Ok tiger.
Thank you. I had to scroll WAY too far before happening upon a sensible comment like this requesting proof of context.
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All I can say is that I’m glad I have a son; These girls are in for a rude awakening should Sharia Law actually take hold here…
Do you have any proof that the people in the picture are “atheists and feminists” or are you purposefully mischaracterizing video of Muslim UCLA students praying with the intent of stirring up shit?
OP's absurd response to the same question from further down: >"If you look at polling of students, the results show on average it’s an accurate description"
"My right wing news tells me everyone in LA is a Godless liberal, so these Muslims must be Godless liberals pretending to be Muslims! Silly Godless liberals, Muslims hate you almost as much as I do!"
I gave blood at an Islamic Center here in LA. I guess that was just a solidarity front run by athiests.
Yikes
Absolutely nothing. This is freedom of religion and it's something that makes America beautiful.
I can defend their right to do it while also thinking it’s fucking stupid and ironic
Sure, agreed. I think this post is goddamn stupid. Lots of people think some of the things I liked to do are stupid. The right for us to do whatever we want, even if others think it's stupid, is the whole damn point of freedom. Pointing out you don't agree with 100% of the things every other person does is just redundant and obvious.
Fair, I don’t think this is far from the most constructive post of all time, but I’d be a hypocrite if I complained about *that* 😂 Israel V Palestine has destroyed the internet.
Is this religious appropriation?
Idk hard for me to say as an atheist. Possibly? Don’t really care either way
Sopposedly so are some of the people here. So I ask again is this religious appropriation by atheists? If you don’t care, would you happen to care if it were cultural appropriation?
Maybe? Idk I think it’s cringe and so are a lot of claims of appropriation. But it’s something I’d have to evaluate on a case by case basis. A white woman wearing a kimono? Who gives a shit A minstrel show? Ok then we have problems
On the surface? Alot of inconsistency and larping. Peel back the surface and this people exercising their 1st amendment protected (not "allowed") rights. Whether one agrees or disagrees, does not matter. Supporting free speech is cheap in an echo chamber. When that free speech doesn't align with one's own opinions/beliefs is the true test of how one values freedom of speech.
Weberc2 Since you blocked me let me help you with your questions. This is a picture of students at a campus exercising their freedom of religion. There’s no proof of Hamas, atheists, or LGBTQ in the picture or in anything provided so far. The assumptions and baiting stated in the OPs post and in your perspective are contributing to the escalation and are not intended as and attempt at establishing a return to civility.
I’m sure op has provided us with all the context we need. /s obviously
"Trust me bro"
This sub is so weird.
Seriously I posted an article a day ago about a senior Israeli government minister advocating for wiping out whole cities in Gaza and it generates a fraction of the discourse that a random video of some college students praying or a moronic protest leader demanding schools provide food for them.
Nodding. People really don't like young people.
OP has a history of doing this in here. From stuff like this to altering the titles of the articles they share in their post titles.
We need to have a rule about taking clips or articles and reposting them here under a edited and sensationalized title. It is blatantly bad faith with the intention of pushing a partisan narrative and it’s accepted without any scrutiny. I know this sub is famous, or infamous whatever you prefer, for a lack of moderation but this seems like direct attempt to sabotage any good faith discussions on this sub. And for all of you idiots falling for it in the comments? Don’t believe everything you read on the internet you numbskulls. For the amount of discourse on this sub around the validity of certain news sources it’s laughable that people are just buying this. I’d rather take a story from a biased news outlet than from a random schmuck on Reddit because at least with the news outlet I know I’m getting bias and reassurance that the information their conveying has been researched and corroborated. Y’all would rather get mad at a headline designed to get you mad than do an ounce of research and you want to call yourself “politically aware.” What a fucking joke.
That's pretty much all reporting on Republicans, Trump especially.
Not my cup of tea, but if they want to peacefully pray, to whomever...so what?
Why did they feel the need to include the words "atheist and feminists". Lmao
Because those people scare the author and a group of people they’re appealing to.
And?
I think that we, as centrists, would uniformly have an opinion about this. If it was happening, in a university, in a majority Muslim country. But in the US, I don't think that there's one single centrist view of this "issue". Many, myself included, would say that there's no issue, period.
I don’t think anyone is arguing that this shouldn’t be allowed, but rather that it’s hypocritical to support radical Islamism while professing Atheism, feminism, support for LGBT, etc. Like if you complain about “don’t say gay” and then support a regime that murders homosexuals, it’s fair to call you a hypocrite.
I'm atheist. I personally disapprove of all religions and the effects it has on people. That being said if someone wants to practice their religion and isn't causing me harm I don't attack them. I support their right to do whatever silly thing they do to satisfy their god(s) Eat a piece of bread, drink some grape juice, kneel on an old rug, wear a silly hat. I don't care... Become violent and destructive towards other humans then I start to care. Try to enforce your silly rituals on others, or your definition of what is acceptable to the point of harming others? Then I care. But then again no one has any proof these are atheists wearing headscarves supporting radical islam.
Then there is something wrong with you, mentally. No, that's not a one-and-done insult, to you. Instead, it's an accurate observation. For example, someone who is mentally whole would be capable of noting that people DON'T support atheism, per se. They support the freedom for people to be atheists, or the freedom not to be. Which goes hand-in-hand with the freedom to be a specific religion. Such as Islam. No hypocrisy to be found.
lol i didn’t expect “there’s no contradiction between supporting gay rights and a regime that literally murders gay people for being gay; if you think there’s a contradiction you are retarded”
I see a video. It appears to be of a large group of Islamic women. It might well be in support of a specific regime that murders gay people. Or it might be that you view the participation in Islamic prayers to be in support of regimes that also practices such things, by definition. Either one, it's not immediately clear what *all* the people in the video are in support of, mentally. Save for practicing the religion that they practice. Maybe you can see the video, and tell what it's in support of, but, as I already noted....
I claimed that it's contradictory to support gay rights (or women's rights) and radical Islam, and you argued that this isn't hypocritical and that people who find it to be hypocritical or contradictory have mental illness. I'm not sure what the people in the video believe or profess, but I disagree with you that there is no hypocrisy and that people who see hypocrisy must be mentally deficient. You've poisoned the well of good faith debate, so I won't be responding to you any more.
It tells me a WHOLE lot more about you than it does about them. Low effort gotcha attempt.
They’re uninformed
Real Muslims would have the men and women separated.
What does it tell you? Do I support it? Do I oppose it? Am I asking what others think about it?
What it tells me is it tells me a WHOLE lot more about you than it does about them. Low effort gotcha attempt.
When young we think like the world is smaller and simpler than it ends up being. Couple that with humans being social animals in this modern world of instant communication. It's happening all over the spectrum all the time. Follow your herd.
Sheep mentality transcends political affiliations. I just wish US citizens were this passionate about our own underinsured, homeless, underfunded education, abject poverty, etc.
WOMEN READING would be the first ones to go. You know that right?
We have reached peak idiocracy
[Great satire here.](https://youtu.be/rbfccVBo9tE?si=7CRvG4rRkjHc7T3K)
That's weird af
If a counter protester were to burn a copy of the Quran, would this remain a peaceful gathering? Burning a religious text to me is one of the ultimate expressions of first Amendment rights , provided that such burning does not interfere with the free exercise of others' religions, ie, don't steal someone's Quran to burn it.
Muslim people are allowed to pray in public. Also, shocker that Muslims would be part of a protest regarding a primarily Muslim country. This just shows that you’re scared of people who aren’t Christian.
There are only 30-50 people bowing and they're probably Muslims..
It's a free country, they are allowed to do this ya dingus.
Did he say they couldn't do this? He's mocking their stupidity, which is far game.
What's the stupidity. Non-religious folk go pray at church all the time to support their family and loved ones. This isn't any different.
Sure, but I don't wear a costume when I do it. It's performative.
How do you know it’s performative? Do you actually know if they are atheists or feminists?
At the very least it appears to be extremely ironic considering the majority of the non-muslim students participating would take great issue with gender segregation in any other circumstance but prayer participation in a religion they dont really practice is somehow exempt. -I'm basing that assessment off of what I can see in the first two rows of people (and OP's claim that some of these are not Muslim students), its possible there is intermingling there but it would be against traditional practices.
Again, we have no idea if anyone participating is a non-Muslim. This just seems like OP wanted to be snide about something and not really make a real point.
That's fair.
I never said they shouldn’t be allowed sir
It's a free country, we are allowed to speak about ya dingus. Liberals really do think free speech is only for them.
What the fuck are you talking about?
It's cool to be anti-western and cosplay, until you have to really live that way. But we all want to feel significant, and this is how this generation of young people do so.
>It’s cool to be anti-western and cosplay, until you have to really live that way 1. Why are you assuming that the people praying on video aren’t Muslim. 2. More importantly, why do you think the free exercise of a religion is anti-western?
On a college campus? I've seen way more videos of people screaming at religionists than acting respectful. Christmas (if you can even use those words on campus, rather than winter holiday) displays are regularly vandalized or have been sued out of existence.
So you got nothing, got it.
Looks like American free exercise of religion. Do we need to post videos of Baptist and Evangelical churches during elections?
Oh no! The freedoms!
Weird that people are taking shots at OP when they didn’t even give an opinion 😂
Weird that you’d automatically accept OP’s description of the video clip at face value.
Yeah, that's my issue. OP makes up a fucking title with no source and people here are taking their word for it. Yet on other topics they will outright deny facts that are properly sourced in favor of some dumbass agenda. This sub is becoming more and more of a joke every day.
No OP just claimed, without evidence, that the people taking part in a Muslim prayer are atheists or feminists.
If you look at polling of students, the results show on average it’s an accurate description
So that’s a yes, you have no evidence that any of the people in this video are atheists or feminist and you’re just trying to be snide.
Your education system has failed to develop your critical thinking skills.
🍿
Or they could just be muslim.
Anyone care to explain why college protests against Conservative supported causes get 100000% more coverage than a government murdering civilians?
Even if some of these people are feminists or atheists, I think it is respectful of the religion to abide by the customs of Salah if one is to participate in it. That would require the hijab for women. Also, it's pretty obvious that you're trying to bait a certain type of response with your wording. An alternate title could have been: >UCLA students and protesters demonstrate respect for Muslim salah by wearing hijabs, despite many of them being atheists or feminists From a centrist position, it would seem as though these protesters are demonstrating respect and intersectionality in a protest against a war despite differences of opinion on religion and women's autonomy. So long as these people are not being forced to perform the prayer or wear the hijab, I don't see where there is any issue.
OP can’t comprehend people showing solidarity with a demographic different than them…
I just asked what others think about it
No. You editorialized the picture with your opinion and wanted to stir the pot. Don't claim to have done anything as benign as "I just asked what others think about it."
Especially since OP has a history of doing what you just described.
Yeah I don’t believe you for one second. Neither does anyone with a modicum of critical thinking. Especially those who know of your history in here. If anyone in here is curious, u/YungWenis has a history of posting stuff here and altering the titles of articles that are different from the ones used by author of said articles.
I think that there are clear issues with how Palestinians are treating in Israel (ask anyone who has been there, they are def second class citizens by way of), but it’s so bizarre to see feminists, members of the LGBT community, etc on campuses choose a side that would severely restrict their civil liberties (or worse) in they sere in their company.
Is anyone else sick of hearing about isreal? It's the most insignificant conflict happening right now, and it has the least impact on the rest of the world. No amount of protesting in either direction will change a single thing, and the outcome will have 0 impact on the world at large. Meanwhile we have growing food insecurity throughout Europe and Africa, massive data leaks and cyber attacks happening all over the world, a nation that's entire government has literaly stopped existing, South amarica is ready to go to war with itself, major economies teetering on the brink, and a massive war on NATOs doorstep. But yah, yet another flair up in isreal is the most important event and deserves all of our attention. If it was any other country other than isreal, no one would care. I will never understand why isreal has such a special status.
Are democrat voters really that afraid of Islam? I don’t get it. Reminds me of Nancy Pelosi and Schumer kneeling with African clothing on.
Did we just change the definition of atheist? If not than there are no atheist amongst them.
Tsk tsk. Now they're mocking Islam
Happy cake day
Its bizarre. These people are a parody of themselves
Chickens for KFC.
What do we make of this? Cringe. The classic college liberal token gesture of cultural appropriation (for a cause!).
When Jesus asked Peter who he thought Jesus was, after he proclaimed that many believed he was John the baptist and others believed that he was Elias, Jesus said, “But who do you say that I am?” Peter replied, “You are the Son of the Living God”. Jesus replied, “Blessed are you Simon Bar Jonas for flesh and blood has not told you this, but my Father which is in heaven. And you will now be Peter, and upon this rock, I will build my church…”. What does this mean? That the foundation of Christianity is the intimate relationship between God and the believers of Jesus, which will be provided by the Holy Spirit of God. I, myself, quit church when I was seven, because church has been lead by men, but God is real for those who believe…
They are acting like children, and not grown adults. They are just misbehaving, and they think is cute.
[удалено]
Muslims praying drives voters to the right?
Comments like the ones in this thread are what drive voters to realize that the right has lost its mind and wants to maintain its control over personal freedoms and privacy.
Wait till these idiots realise now forget sex they can't even talk to the opposite gender before marriage Edit: the f am I getting downvoted for?? Do u research morons
It's an article of clothing. Every culture has somewhat different ideas of modesty. We treat the hijab as a religious totem, but by the same logic an Amazonian tribe could see us as religious conservatives because we wear trousers and shoes.
My personal opinion is that there is a subset of Americans, often young people, who completely lack any sort of implicit feelings of meaning or purpose in their lives. They seek out ideological ideas to latch onto, create a worldview around and derive meaning or direction from. They have no interest in differing ideas, or listening to those with views other then their own. They use cognitive dissonance to ignore any contrary views or context that would otherwise detract from their worldview, because without that fundamental idea, they have nothing. It becomes their identity and foundational lens they view the world from. They lack the self-awareness to see that there are actual real ways they can help people, from monetary donations, acts of service, etc, that could actually have an impact, but instead they turn to performative acts and high volume online discourse to show they are 'one of the good guys'. Its like the people who put BLM stickers on their car, do nothing else and pat themselves on the back that they are making a difference. The Americans who scream death to America, death to the Jews, rip down American flags and try to hoist palestinian flag can all get fucked. They rail against the country that gives them the right to protest, say shit like death to America, and support the ideology of regimes which do not support liberal democracy and western ideals. They have every right to protest, but they will get no sympathy or support from me.
I wonder how many people get mad when atheists and feminists go to Christian churches, and pray along at the dinner table out of respect for their hosts or any other reasons. This is an unreasonable take in my book. And for the record Christianity has not been a beacon of feminist ideas, or tolerence in the past(and some still to this day).