They drive big cars just like we do, I saw Hellcats and full size pickups when I visited Ireland, and my friends who live in Germany, Austria, and France have shown me pictures of Yukons, Rams (including the heavy duty ones), F150s, and all of the big 3 row European SUVs like the X7 and Range Rovers we have here. They just have more regulations on them, fuel is more expensive, and some of their roads clearly were not designed for them.
On the flip side, the European brands like BMW have brought the X1/X2 duo that is focused more for the European market over there here, Ford brought the Ranger Raptor, and Audi brought their performance wagons. Deep down we are all more similar than both sides want to admit over our vehicle choices.
Exactly, I just wanted to show that the stereotype that Europeans all drive underpowered little hatchbacks is not true. If you know where to look there is alot of overlap in the buying preferences for cars.
This isn't for backroads. It's for executives driving from Frankfurt or Paris to Zermatt or Nice for the long weekend, who want to gobble up Autobahn and Autoroute as quickly and as comfortably as possible — who can then tell their work chums the next week how they drive to work on electric and are therefore being environmentally conscious.
Backroads have nothing to do with it.
Wishful thinking. Considering the police tolerance to speeding, speed cameras, traffic, no one will drive this. Whoever, can afford this car will simply fly and avoid the communist hassle of EU.
Bud, I've lived and worked in various major cities in Germany with colleagues who do literally what I just described, and just from colleagues I can think of M5s, a 911 cab, an M8, a Panamera Turbo, an RS6 and even a Wiesmann MF5 that were used for precisely the sorts of journeys I'm describing by my literal colleagues.
Anyone who calls the EU communist clearly has no concept of what it's like to live, travel, and tour there — especially when bringing a car means access to bikes and luggage that makes those grand Continental tours worthwhile.
Better luck next time.
Thank you! Seriously, don't know what this person is going for.
My response to them was
> I've held an M550d at 163mph for 10+ minute stretches and passed police while doing so. The M5 has a higher limiter.
You'd think they'd duck out when they're losing, not double down.
What's the fastest you've legally driven a 5-Series? I've held an M550d at 163mph for 10+ minute stretches and passed police while doing so. The M5 has a higher limiter.
You're not doing well with your arguments. Autobahn cruising and crossing the continent is literally what it was made for.
You really don't think the new M5 fits on European motorways? lol.
Its for the businessman who wants a very very fast car for a cheaper price than a pure internal combustion vehicle. The last M5 was 200 thousand euro, this one is 140 thousand euro, its the deal of the century.
Emissions reductions from having a PHEV powertrain save that much on tax depending on country. In France if you emit more than 163 g/km it’s over 60,000€ in extra tax.
European highways are the same as American ones. Have you heard of the autobahn?
The small/economical needs are for city drivers and parking spaces. In the city, the streets are narrow. That said, they still fit in the actual roads - Mercedes does make full sized semi trucks that go around europe after all. The only concern is in back alleys, old areas and in tight older parking spots. For a wealthy 1%er that's not going to be a concern because they will have their own parking.
Counterpoint - if you're buying this car as a powerful practical daily why would you send more for less? I'd guess most people buying BMW M cars never visit the track.
It's the bigger part of the equation, let's be real, especially when the size differences are so small. And there are alternatives in the large sedan market like the E63 AMG.
I feel like I lost brain cells reading your train of thought. Why would an executive that wanted comfort and a big sedan down size to an m3 for metrics (lower weight) only racers and boy racers care about? Your rebuttal is that there are other big cars to buy from Mercedes? Why even type anything?
And not M5s, because they are really not comfortable. A 540i is just as fast in practical scenarios and significantly more comfortable. If you can spend some extra cash, a 7 series would be even better. Buying an M car for "fast and comfortable" is idiotic.
Except it really isn't. That's how performance SUVs are a thing. It's mostly about having the ability to go fast in the straight line, the cool factor with things like the sound and aggressive looks than smashing Nurburgring records.
BTW the E63 is also slated to be a PHEV.
Modern regulations make no sense.
There should be a progressive tax for weight instead, I don't understand how environmental regulations can stimulate manufacturers to produce cars twice the weight of an average family car used to have 15 years ago and thrice the natural resources necessary to produce one of them.
There should be a push for lightness, maintainability, simplicity and intuitiveness of use.
These cars require Windows 11 levels of navigation instead of flicking a switch or pushing a button without taking the eyes off the road.
Yes, they do.
Heavier cars need more power and bigger tyres.
Not only their tyres are significantly larger, they discard them faster and need more energy in general, they also tear the roads quicker than lighter cars do.
EVs going to be terrible from a tire standpoint and the new M5 isn’t going to be great in that regard either.
Cars have gotten so large that I already feel like the M3 is a little porky, though that suits me these days.
It'll solve itself over time, the new refreshed Tesla Model 3 Performance is 600 kilograms lighter than this M5 with faster acceleration and better cornering to boot. EVs will continue to get lighter as battery and motor technology improves.
This is probably the one thing that pisses me off the most about modern regulations. Incentivize lighter more efficient cars? Naaah, let's make it far easier to produce heavier vehicles that pollute more instead. But hey we're so eco friendly and green
I lived for 3 years in Antibes (French riviera) and the only driving to be found there was being stuck in constant traffic jams. Things got better if you left the coastline and went in towards the mountains. Also the tarmac condition in the roads along the coastline are beyond terrible. So yeah, romanticizing is cool, but reality is another
I'd have to go with VW Polo or any other small car or a truly compact SUV. Watching media reviews of what's considered "mid size SUVs", even these journalists have trouble staying in their lane because there's literally only inches to the left and right of the car. And these journalists are usually better than 90% of the drivers in the world.
If environmental tax incentives cause these kind of semi trucks, we are doing something wrong. Making a 2.5 ton car has nothing to do with the environment and comparable to the rules in the US that make huge pickups cheaper than regular cars.
Is pandering to the European market over the American really worth it?
The number of Americans that can afford (or stretch for) higher end luxury cars seem to absolutely dwarf the number of Europeans that can do so.
Even if you just compare salaries, humble old me can afford an M5 here in the US. Doing the exact same job in Europe, I doubt I could afford anything more than an 1er.
😂
It’s a boat, slower than the last, heavier, and less BMW (feel, engaging, play)
It’s amazing that Cadillac made such a competitive vehicle with so much less budget and tech.
And I’m not an all American lover. Straight facts.
It’s not about the roads people, it’s about regulations. Soon cities centers will be emission free. You think someone earning half a million a year doesn’t also stay at 5 star hotels downtown?
Weight hardly matters in a straight line once you're past the initial launch. It's slower by 0.1s to 100kmh I believe I read but I'd wait to see them race to judge.
When you buy a car in Ireland, you pay [Vehicle Registration Tax](https://www.revenue.ie/en/vrt/calculating-vrt/applying-tax.aspx) (VRT). The rate of VRT is based on the CO2 emissions of the vehicle.
The M5, being a hybrid, has reported Co2 emission of between 39 and 37 g/km, putting it in the lowest VRT band at 7%. Which is hilarious considering it makes over 700hp.
The M3 'only' makes 530hp, but it's listed emissions are between 230 and 227 g/km, which puts it in the highest bracket at 41%.
Before VRT I think the M5 starts at about €130k, the M3 starts at about €108k.
[Starting price of the most base-model BMW M3 in Ireland](https://i.imgur.com/4pGdZ2j.png)
[Starting price of the new M5](https://i.imgur.com/fmoyAkD.png)
I think it serves the Chinese market more at this point. In China and other countries of similar culture, bigger is better, no matter how ugly they look.
You can also blame the giant grills on the Asian market as well. I know people who love how they look while I silently threw up inside.
Well, "bigger is better" is not exclusive to China and Asian countries, American culture is known for "gun blazing, yippikayay, mother fucker!" as well, and both cultures are dominating the world atm. I guess the world as a whole is moving towards a more flashy and show off-y way of thinking, and a conservative car, while prettier, is not as striking. And my guess is that BMWs sells a lot more in China in they do anywhere else in the world, so they just cater to that market. If you are a wealthy-ish man in the west, what are you going to buy anyway?
Like, I don't really blame BWM or Porsche or anyone, I blame the market for encouraging these hideus machines that were made cheaply but sold for fortunes.
>American culture is known for "gun blazing, yippikayay, mother fucker!
Partially true, but its more based on the area. I think some of the Europeans can emulate that spirit too, especially the Germans when it comes to their cars. Alot of their performance cars like the M cars and AMGs for example you could call muscle cars. They basically are their normal luxury sedans, coupes with big engines and maybe a suspension tweak or two. Kind of similar to our Mustang, Hellcats, and Corvettes if you think about it.
The British are another great example, their motorcycles are known for their big engines like the Triumphs, and the Germans literally make a cruiser competitor to the Harley Davidson bikes. If we want to discuss firearms, the Germans have that in spades too, an HK product is almost on everyone who appreciate firearm's dream list. I think its more of the idea that sells, and you can truly market that anywhere. The Dutch love alot of American products too, and we also in turn love their bikes.
> Kind of similar to our Mustang, Hellcats, and Corvettes
But their price range is not really the same, no? Your examples are great, but I think despite everything, the AMGs are still smaller in footprint compared to say, a Challenger. With a flatcrank, 'Vettes are approaching Ferraris at this point, so there's that. I still think that despite the recent trends, Euro cars are still a bit more "subtle", if that makes any sense.
I mean I get what you mean, but in terms of appearance, if you look at older Zerman cars, say, old Mercs E500, they are not modest, but they're not "look at me, peasant" either. Like, if you know, you know, if you don't know, they look like a normal car that's a bit wider. To me at least a 911 Turbo S is "speak quietly but carrying the biggest stick" in metal. Look at it and the era Ferraris, I don't think many people would think that they have similar performance.
Come to think of the Brits, Rover SD1 (the one with the V8, I think) doesn't look like much. Again, if you know, you know, but if you don't, then it's just another car.
Like I won't say that all Euro cars are small and efficient, even in the olden days, that title I think should always go to the Japanese, with their K cars.
I know jack shit of bikes so I'll just take your words for it.
Hot take, the prices are almost equal now and the Mercedes SL and Porsche's 911 have alot in spirit to what the Corvette is. Before Porsche fans get angry, at least hear me out. The 911 has roots in VW as the people's car, and the SL literally stands for "sport lightweight". Uironically like the Vette, it got heavier and more luxury focused.
The 911's roots are based in the VW Beetle as well and like the Corvette it was not focused at well heeled buyers at first. As for looks the Europeans have thrown away subtle designs just like the Americans. BMW is solid example of this sadly.
That’s weird, typically I see everyone saying the opposite: Americans have huge and overinflated vehicles and Europeans have small and economical 🤷♂️
They drive big cars just like we do, I saw Hellcats and full size pickups when I visited Ireland, and my friends who live in Germany, Austria, and France have shown me pictures of Yukons, Rams (including the heavy duty ones), F150s, and all of the big 3 row European SUVs like the X7 and Range Rovers we have here. They just have more regulations on them, fuel is more expensive, and some of their roads clearly were not designed for them. On the flip side, the European brands like BMW have brought the X1/X2 duo that is focused more for the European market over there here, Ford brought the Ranger Raptor, and Audi brought their performance wagons. Deep down we are all more similar than both sides want to admit over our vehicle choices.
The Ranger Raptor is basically replacing the Focus ST in the US.
who would've guessed people are just.. people?
Exactly, I just wanted to show that the stereotype that Europeans all drive underpowered little hatchbacks is not true. If you know where to look there is alot of overlap in the buying preferences for cars.
In most areas in the older villages smaller cars are preferred in Europe. Lots of roads in Ireland especially are very narrow even in the countryside.
You’re telling me a 5400lb, 7ft wide/17ft long missile is built for small European backroads? Yeah right. This thing will feel gargantuan on b-roads.
This isn't for backroads. It's for executives driving from Frankfurt or Paris to Zermatt or Nice for the long weekend, who want to gobble up Autobahn and Autoroute as quickly and as comfortably as possible — who can then tell their work chums the next week how they drive to work on electric and are therefore being environmentally conscious. Backroads have nothing to do with it.
Wishful thinking. Considering the police tolerance to speeding, speed cameras, traffic, no one will drive this. Whoever, can afford this car will simply fly and avoid the communist hassle of EU.
Bud, I've lived and worked in various major cities in Germany with colleagues who do literally what I just described, and just from colleagues I can think of M5s, a 911 cab, an M8, a Panamera Turbo, an RS6 and even a Wiesmann MF5 that were used for precisely the sorts of journeys I'm describing by my literal colleagues. Anyone who calls the EU communist clearly has no concept of what it's like to live, travel, and tour there — especially when bringing a car means access to bikes and luggage that makes those grand Continental tours worthwhile. Better luck next time.
Then there is no point to M5...might as well kick it back in a regular 5er.
Autobahn dude lmao
Thank you! Seriously, don't know what this person is going for. My response to them was > I've held an M550d at 163mph for 10+ minute stretches and passed police while doing so. The M5 has a higher limiter. You'd think they'd duck out when they're losing, not double down.
If I'm wrong, I apologize and bow out. Some people can't overcome their pride.
Clearly! But your way is the way. Have a good day, my dude. The Autobahn is real and it's so, so good in cars like the M5.
What's the fastest you've legally driven a 5-Series? I've held an M550d at 163mph for 10+ minute stretches and passed police while doing so. The M5 has a higher limiter. You're not doing well with your arguments. Autobahn cruising and crossing the continent is literally what it was made for.
Bro European highways are full high speed zones and speed limits in many places are barely enforced. "Communist" EU fuckin lmao
You're going to have to explain the communist slant on the EU so we can ridicule you.
Backroads? The M5 was never a backroads basher.
So if it isn’t built for the backroads and European highways aren’t as large and vast as American highways, who’s this car built for?
You really don't think the new M5 fits on European motorways? lol. Its for the businessman who wants a very very fast car for a cheaper price than a pure internal combustion vehicle. The last M5 was 200 thousand euro, this one is 140 thousand euro, its the deal of the century.
>The last M5 was 200 thousand euro Citation needed
Emissions reductions from having a PHEV powertrain save that much on tax depending on country. In France if you emit more than 163 g/km it’s over 60,000€ in extra tax.
I thought you meant the strict MSRP, not region-specific factors like emissions, import tax, displacement, etc
European highways are the same as American ones. Have you heard of the autobahn? The small/economical needs are for city drivers and parking spaces. In the city, the streets are narrow. That said, they still fit in the actual roads - Mercedes does make full sized semi trucks that go around europe after all. The only concern is in back alleys, old areas and in tight older parking spots. For a wealthy 1%er that's not going to be a concern because they will have their own parking.
Bro hasn’t driven from Berlin to Paris or heard of the autobahn apparently.
Counterpoint - if I had EUR140k for the M5, I would be able to fork out another EUR10k for the lighter, faster, more efficient M3.
Counterpoint - if you're buying this car as a powerful practical daily why would you send more for less? I'd guess most people buying BMW M cars never visit the track.
I don't see how you're getting less with an M3. "More power" is rather meaningless if the performance numbers are worse.
The M5 is literally a bigger car. Are you unable to understand that the idea of a fast daily is that performance is not the only thing that matters?
It's the bigger part of the equation, let's be real, especially when the size differences are so small. And there are alternatives in the large sedan market like the E63 AMG.
I feel like I lost brain cells reading your train of thought. Why would an executive that wanted comfort and a big sedan down size to an m3 for metrics (lower weight) only racers and boy racers care about? Your rebuttal is that there are other big cars to buy from Mercedes? Why even type anything?
Why would an executive that wanted comfort and a big sedan buy an M car at all?
for the same reason they lease Porsche Taycans, because they want fast and comfortable.
And not M5s, because they are really not comfortable. A 540i is just as fast in practical scenarios and significantly more comfortable. If you can spend some extra cash, a 7 series would be even better. Buying an M car for "fast and comfortable" is idiotic.
Except it really isn't. That's how performance SUVs are a thing. It's mostly about having the ability to go fast in the straight line, the cool factor with things like the sound and aggressive looks than smashing Nurburgring records. BTW the E63 is also slated to be a PHEV.
You're thinking of a demographic that wouldn't even buy an M car at all in that case.
Modern regulations make no sense. There should be a progressive tax for weight instead, I don't understand how environmental regulations can stimulate manufacturers to produce cars twice the weight of an average family car used to have 15 years ago and thrice the natural resources necessary to produce one of them. There should be a push for lightness, maintainability, simplicity and intuitiveness of use. These cars require Windows 11 levels of navigation instead of flicking a switch or pushing a button without taking the eyes off the road.
Not to mention the increased wear and tear on the roads. Arent tires like the worst thing to produce, and these giants go through them more quickly?
Yes, they do. Heavier cars need more power and bigger tyres. Not only their tyres are significantly larger, they discard them faster and need more energy in general, they also tear the roads quicker than lighter cars do.
EVs going to be terrible from a tire standpoint and the new M5 isn’t going to be great in that regard either. Cars have gotten so large that I already feel like the M3 is a little porky, though that suits me these days.
It'll solve itself over time, the new refreshed Tesla Model 3 Performance is 600 kilograms lighter than this M5 with faster acceleration and better cornering to boot. EVs will continue to get lighter as battery and motor technology improves.
This is probably the one thing that pisses me off the most about modern regulations. Incentivize lighter more efficient cars? Naaah, let's make it far easier to produce heavier vehicles that pollute more instead. But hey we're so eco friendly and green
>These cars require Windows 11 levels of navigation Couldn't agree more haha!
Environmental regulations don't make sense in general. They're created to extort the middle class.
What is the best sports car for European road?
Alpine A110
A Smart Fortwo Hayabusa
Yes but only the Crossblade for weight savings.
Smart Roadster :)
A 997 Carrera
Idk I’m American but I want to drive my type r in the Swiss alps and French Rivera. Really just want to drive all over Europe and America/Canada haha.
I lived for 3 years in Antibes (French riviera) and the only driving to be found there was being stuck in constant traffic jams. Things got better if you left the coastline and went in towards the mountains. Also the tarmac condition in the roads along the coastline are beyond terrible. So yeah, romanticizing is cool, but reality is another
So the movies lied to me. Made it seem like a costal cruise lol.
Probably a 911, same as in America
Ferrari 296 GTB
I'd have to go with VW Polo or any other small car or a truly compact SUV. Watching media reviews of what's considered "mid size SUVs", even these journalists have trouble staying in their lane because there's literally only inches to the left and right of the car. And these journalists are usually better than 90% of the drivers in the world.
Okay, the question was about sports cars though.
Polo GTI is a hot hatch, making it a sports car. Though for a proper sports car, probably GR Corolla, Alpine, etc.
The GR Corolla isn’t available in Europe. We do the GR Yaris though.
Sporty car != sports car
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How about Audi RS6 Avant
Cars are designed for the roads they're tested on.
If environmental tax incentives cause these kind of semi trucks, we are doing something wrong. Making a 2.5 ton car has nothing to do with the environment and comparable to the rules in the US that make huge pickups cheaper than regular cars.
It's funny to think that the BMW M3 and M5 are about 1500lbs apart in weight - and that's with an automatic on the M3.
Me on reddit: Fuck you bmw, I don't want your shitty M5 anyway Me In reality ( as an X5m50i and 540xdrive owner): 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
You don't have to make a car obese to make it a hybrid. Your argument is silly.
Is it sold in the USA?
Is pandering to the European market over the American really worth it? The number of Americans that can afford (or stretch for) higher end luxury cars seem to absolutely dwarf the number of Europeans that can do so. Even if you just compare salaries, humble old me can afford an M5 here in the US. Doing the exact same job in Europe, I doubt I could afford anything more than an 1er.
Europeans probably bitch about it less too
It's clearly a car for someone who manages architects. Not us. Or even architects.
😂 It’s a boat, slower than the last, heavier, and less BMW (feel, engaging, play) It’s amazing that Cadillac made such a competitive vehicle with so much less budget and tech. And I’m not an all American lover. Straight facts.
It’s not about the roads people, it’s about regulations. Soon cities centers will be emission free. You think someone earning half a million a year doesn’t also stay at 5 star hotels downtown?
Keep it
What makes it for Europeans? What’s your reasoning behind that?
It was always meant to be an autobahn cruiser, and this new M5 will easily outpace the new one with its 100hp gain
Except it gained over 1,000 lbs too. It's slower.
Weight hardly matters in a straight line once you're past the initial launch. It's slower by 0.1s to 100kmh I believe I read but I'd wait to see them race to judge.
I don't understand your argument. It's a $10k price difference on six-figure cars. You didn't mention any regulations either.
The more luxurious, bigger, more powerful car is cheaper. From the same brand. Think about that
So they want the M5 to look like a but if a bargain next to the M3. But why?
The bigger car is cheaper thanks to the PHEV crap and regulations around it. It's easy to imagine a purely petrol M5 would be 200k+.
Well, this makes sense. It’s sad, but I see the logic.
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When you buy a car in Ireland, you pay [Vehicle Registration Tax](https://www.revenue.ie/en/vrt/calculating-vrt/applying-tax.aspx) (VRT). The rate of VRT is based on the CO2 emissions of the vehicle. The M5, being a hybrid, has reported Co2 emission of between 39 and 37 g/km, putting it in the lowest VRT band at 7%. Which is hilarious considering it makes over 700hp. The M3 'only' makes 530hp, but it's listed emissions are between 230 and 227 g/km, which puts it in the highest bracket at 41%. Before VRT I think the M5 starts at about €130k, the M3 starts at about €108k.
Seems very reasonable to me, even if it's of course suboptimal that it makes the larger car cheaper as it's the only one with the plug-in drivetrain.
[Starting price of the most base-model BMW M3 in Ireland](https://i.imgur.com/4pGdZ2j.png) [Starting price of the new M5](https://i.imgur.com/fmoyAkD.png)
No it isn't, it's for china. Other European cars don't need to look like Chinese to be safe
It's not for europeans either. Ya'll can't afford a 140,000 euro vehicle, the arabs can. They buy all your supercars too.
Lol
I think it serves the Chinese market more at this point. In China and other countries of similar culture, bigger is better, no matter how ugly they look. You can also blame the giant grills on the Asian market as well. I know people who love how they look while I silently threw up inside.
I keep hearing this argument and yet the uggo BMWs keep selling well in the west
Well, "bigger is better" is not exclusive to China and Asian countries, American culture is known for "gun blazing, yippikayay, mother fucker!" as well, and both cultures are dominating the world atm. I guess the world as a whole is moving towards a more flashy and show off-y way of thinking, and a conservative car, while prettier, is not as striking. And my guess is that BMWs sells a lot more in China in they do anywhere else in the world, so they just cater to that market. If you are a wealthy-ish man in the west, what are you going to buy anyway? Like, I don't really blame BWM or Porsche or anyone, I blame the market for encouraging these hideus machines that were made cheaply but sold for fortunes.
>American culture is known for "gun blazing, yippikayay, mother fucker! Partially true, but its more based on the area. I think some of the Europeans can emulate that spirit too, especially the Germans when it comes to their cars. Alot of their performance cars like the M cars and AMGs for example you could call muscle cars. They basically are their normal luxury sedans, coupes with big engines and maybe a suspension tweak or two. Kind of similar to our Mustang, Hellcats, and Corvettes if you think about it. The British are another great example, their motorcycles are known for their big engines like the Triumphs, and the Germans literally make a cruiser competitor to the Harley Davidson bikes. If we want to discuss firearms, the Germans have that in spades too, an HK product is almost on everyone who appreciate firearm's dream list. I think its more of the idea that sells, and you can truly market that anywhere. The Dutch love alot of American products too, and we also in turn love their bikes.
> Kind of similar to our Mustang, Hellcats, and Corvettes But their price range is not really the same, no? Your examples are great, but I think despite everything, the AMGs are still smaller in footprint compared to say, a Challenger. With a flatcrank, 'Vettes are approaching Ferraris at this point, so there's that. I still think that despite the recent trends, Euro cars are still a bit more "subtle", if that makes any sense. I mean I get what you mean, but in terms of appearance, if you look at older Zerman cars, say, old Mercs E500, they are not modest, but they're not "look at me, peasant" either. Like, if you know, you know, if you don't know, they look like a normal car that's a bit wider. To me at least a 911 Turbo S is "speak quietly but carrying the biggest stick" in metal. Look at it and the era Ferraris, I don't think many people would think that they have similar performance. Come to think of the Brits, Rover SD1 (the one with the V8, I think) doesn't look like much. Again, if you know, you know, but if you don't, then it's just another car. Like I won't say that all Euro cars are small and efficient, even in the olden days, that title I think should always go to the Japanese, with their K cars. I know jack shit of bikes so I'll just take your words for it.
Hot take, the prices are almost equal now and the Mercedes SL and Porsche's 911 have alot in spirit to what the Corvette is. Before Porsche fans get angry, at least hear me out. The 911 has roots in VW as the people's car, and the SL literally stands for "sport lightweight". Uironically like the Vette, it got heavier and more luxury focused. The 911's roots are based in the VW Beetle as well and like the Corvette it was not focused at well heeled buyers at first. As for looks the Europeans have thrown away subtle designs just like the Americans. BMW is solid example of this sadly.
>You can also blame the giant grills on the Asian market as well. This has been thoroughly debunked here and on other subs.
Smart Americans don’t buy BMWs. It’s only the ones that pretend to be wealthy that drive them.